Certara Inc (CERT) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Certara third quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded.

您好，感謝您的耐心等待。歡迎參加 Certara 2025 年第三季財報電話會議。（操作人員指示）請注意，今天的會議正在錄音。

I would now like to hand the conference over to your first speaker today, David Deuchler, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

現在，我謹將會議交給今天的第一位發言人，投資者關係部的戴維·德克勒。請繼續。

Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you all for participating in today's conference call. On the call from Certara we have William Feehery, Chief Executive Officer; and John Gallagher, Chief Financial Officer. Earlier today, Certara released financial results for the quarter ended September 30, 2025. A copy of the press release is available on the company's website.

大家下午好。感謝各位參加今天的電話會議。參與 Certara 通話的有執行長 William Feehery 和財務長 John Gallagher。今天早些時候，Certara 發布了截至 2025 年 9 月 30 日的季度財務業績。新聞稿副本可在公司網站上查閱。

Before we begin, I would like to remind you that management will make statements during this call that include forward-looking statements, and actual results may differ materially from those expressed or implied in the forward-looking statements. Please refer to slide 2 in the accompanying materials for additional information, which you can find on the company's Investor Relations website.

在會議開始之前，我想提醒各位，管理階層將在本次電話會議中發表一些前瞻性聲明，實際結果可能與前瞻性聲明中明示或暗示的結果有重大差異。有關更多信息，請參閱隨附材料中的第 2 頁幻燈片，您可以在公司投資者關係網站上找到這些信息。

In the remarks or responses to questions, management may mention some non-GAAP financial measures. Reconciliations of these non-GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures are available in the recent earnings press release available on the company's website. Please refer to the reconciliation tables in the accompanying materials for additional information.

在發言或回答問題時，管理階層可能會提及一些非公認會計準則財務指標。這些非GAAP財務指標與最直接可比較的GAAP指標的調節表可在公司網站上發布的最新獲利新聞稿中找到。有關更多信息，請參閱隨附材料中的調節表。

This conference call contains time-sensitive information and is accurate only as of the live broadcast today, November 6, 2025. Certara disclaims any obligation, except as required by law, to update or revise any financial projections or forward-looking statements, whether because of new information, future events or otherwise.

本次電話會議包含有時效性的信息，僅截至 2025 年 11 月 6 日直播當天的資訊準確無誤。除法律要求外，Certara 不承擔任何更新或修改任何財務預測或前瞻性聲明的義務，無論是因為新資訊、未來事件或其他原因。

And with that, I'll turn the call over to William.

那麼，我就把電話交給威廉了。

Thank you, David, and good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining Certara's third quarter earnings call. John and I will begin with prepared remarks, and then we will take your questions.

謝謝你，大衛，大家下午好。感謝您參加 Certara 第三季財報電話會議。約翰和我將首先發表準備好的講話，然後回答你們的問題。

During the third quarter, our team continued to execute against our 2025 goals, while also positioning Certara for long-term success by investing in our R&D and commercial teams. Third quarter revenue of $104.6 million was in line with our expectations, representing 10% reported year-over-year growth.

第三季度，我們的團隊繼續朝著 2025 年的目標努力，同時透過投資研發和商業團隊，為 Certara 的長期成功奠定了基礎。第三季營收為 1.046 億美元，符合我們的預期，年增 10%。

We outperformed internal profitability expectations, delivering adjusted EBITDA of $35.2 million, representing a margin of 34%. Our team remains focused on investing for growth with R&D up 24% versus the same period a year ago and increasing to 10% of revenue from 9% in the prior year period. On the other hand, third quarter bookings of $96.6 million came in below our expectations, representing growth of 1%.

我們超越了內部獲利預期，調整後 EBITDA 為 3,520 萬美元，利潤率為 34%。我們的團隊繼續專注於投資成長，研發投入比去年同期成長了 24%，佔營收的比例從去年同期的 9% 提高到 10%。另一方面，第三季預訂金額為 9,660 萬美元，低於我們的預期，僅成長了 1%。

Among our Tier 1 services customers, we observed cautious spending behavior with some customers pushing deal time lines later into the fourth quarter and into 2026. Taking this into account, we are narrowing our revenue guidance to $415 million to $420 million, which we believe reflects the most likely range of outcomes for the year based on our performance to date. We have raised our adjusted EBITDA margin guidance to the high end of our previous guidance range and raised our adjusted EPS guidance to reflect the continuation of outperformance against our profitability targets and the impact of share repurchase activity.

在我們的一級服務客戶中，我們觀察到謹慎的支出行為，一些客戶將交易時間線推遲到第四季末甚至 2026 年。考慮到這一點，我們將營收預期範圍縮小至 4.15 億美元至 4.2 億美元，我們認為這反映了根據我們迄今為止的業績，今年最有可能的業績範圍。我們將調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率預期上調至先前預期範圍的高端，並上調了調整後的每股盈餘預期，以反映我們持續超出獲利目標以及股票回購活動的影響。

We continue to see pockets of outperformance throughout our portfolio, including our Simcyp PBPK software and our QSP services. However, some of our customers are still dealing with factors that impact decision-making time lines and R&D allocation decisions. As large pharma customers adjust focus with their R&D programs and now onshoring initiatives that are impacting personnel and resource allocations, we have seen a slowdown in deal completion time lines, particularly in regulatory services and biosim services. This slowdown has persisted into the beginning of the fourth quarter, conflicting with historical seasonality trends. We are closely monitoring consumer spending patterns as we begin to plan for 2026.

我們持續看到我們產品組合中存在一些表現優異的領域，包括我們的 Simcyp PBPK 軟體和我們的 QSP 服務。然而，我們的一些客戶仍然面臨著影響決策時間表和研發資源分配決策的因素。隨著大型製藥客戶調整研發計畫的重點，並將業務轉移到國內，這影響了人員和資源的分配，我們看到交易完成時間有所放緩，尤其是在監管服務和生物相似藥服務方面。這種放緩趨勢一直持續到第四季初，與歷史季節性趨勢相反。我們正在密切關註消費者的支出模式，以便開始規劃 2026 年的工作。

At a high level, we continue to see several positive leading indicators for the biosimulation market and for Certara. Among large pharma customers, the use of model-informed drug development is growing throughout all stages of development. Customers are adopting biosimulation solutions for use in dosing, efficacy and toxicity analysis and using the technology earlier as we expand our software capabilities into discovery and preclinical.

從宏觀層面來看，我們持續看到生物模擬市場和 Certara 的幾個積極領先指標。在大型製藥客戶中，基於模型的藥物開發方法在藥物開發的各個階段都得到了越來越廣泛的應用。隨著我們將軟體功能擴展到藥物發現和臨床前領域，客戶正在採用生物模擬解決方案進行劑量、療效和毒性分析，並更早使用該技術。

Among our smaller customers, the adoption of biosimulation is accelerating through the use of our technology-enabled services. As drug developers look to optimize their speed and efficiency, they are often attracted to areas of our business such as QSP, which can help streamline decision-making and trial design in both the preclinical and clinical stages. Since our IPO, we have seen a significant increase in both the number of customers using our products and services as well as the wallet share of Certara within larger organizations.

在我們規模較小的客戶中，生物模擬技術的採用正在透過我們技術支援的服務而加速發展。隨著藥物研發人員尋求優化速度和效率，他們往往會被我們業務中的 QSP 等領域所吸引，這些領域可以幫助簡化臨床前和臨床階段的決策和試驗設計。自我們上市以來，我們看到使用我們產品和服務的客戶數量以及 Certara 在大型組織中的錢包份額都顯著增加。

Most of all, we are encouraged by our evolving relationships with key stakeholders and users at customers. Earlier this year, we hosted our second annual Certainty Conference, bringing together hundreds of our users to discuss the future of model-informed drug development. In early October, we held the same conference in Barcelona with our European user base, and the experience was very productive for all parties. At both events, I had the opportunity to discuss Certara's products with customers where they provided feedback on our software, suggested new features and functionality and learned about our new products and long-term vision for the Certara platform. There is tremendous value that can be gained by making more informed decisions earlier in the drug development life cycle, which is why we are moving into discovery and preclinical.

最重要的是，我們與主要利害關係人和客戶用戶之間不斷發展的關係令我們倍感鼓舞。今年早些時候，我們舉辦了第二屆年度“確定性大會”，數百名用戶齊聚一堂，共同探討基於模型的藥物開發的未來。10月初，我們在巴塞隆納與歐洲用戶群舉辦了同樣的會議，這次會議對各方來說都非常有成效。在這兩場活動中，我都有機會與客戶討論 Certara 的產品，他們對我們的軟體提出了回饋意見，建議了新的功能和功能，並了解了我們的新產品以及 Certara 平台的長期願景。在藥物研發生命週期的早期階段做出更明智的決策可以獲得巨大的價值，這也是我們進入藥物發現和臨床前階段的原因。

We closed the Chemaxon acquisition a year ago in early October of 2024, which gave Certara an established product suite in discovery with synergistic capabilities relative to Simcyp. In the first 12 months under Certara ownership, Chemaxon has continued to grow and is on track to reach corporate average margins by the end of the year. Elsewhere, our services group has grown preclinical work in QSP, especially since the FDA's guidance promoting the use of new approach methodologies. QSP has grown ahead of the rest of the biosimulation business on a year-to-date basis and is becoming an increasingly important part of our business.

我們在 2024 年 10 月初完成了對 Chemaxon 的收購，這使得 Certara 在藥物發現領域擁有了一套成熟的產品組合，與 Simcyp 具有協同效應。在 Certara 收購後的前 12 個月裡，Chemaxon 持續成長，並預計在年底前達到公司平均利潤率。在其他方面，我們的服務團隊在 QSP 的臨床前工作方面取得了長足發展，尤其是在 FDA 發布指導意見，提倡使用新的方法論之後。今年迄今為止，QSP 的成長速度超過了其他生物模擬業務公司，並且正在成為我們業務中越來越重要的組成部分。

Now turning to our financial performance. In software, bookings of $40.8 million represented growth of 17%. We saw solid bookings performance in Tiers 1 and 3, which were in line with expectation, while Tier 2 was below expectations, which we attribute more to timing than anything. Software revenue of $43.8 million grew 22% on a reported basis and 6% organically, led by strong growth from Simcyp in addition to $5.6 million of contribution from Chemaxon.

現在來看我們的財務表現。軟體業務方面，訂單金額為 4,080 萬美元，較去年同期成長 17%。我們看到第一級和第三級的預訂表現穩健，符合預期，而第二級的預訂表現低於預期，我們認為這更多是由於時機問題而非其他因素。軟體收入為 4,380 萬美元，按報告數據計算增長 22%，以有機增長計算增長 6%，這主要得益於 Simcyp 的強勁增長，以及 Chemaxon 貢獻的 560 萬美元。

In services, bookings of $55.8 million declined 9% on a reported basis, driven by slowness in the Tier 1 customer base. We have continued to observe cautious decision-making among large pharma customers into the fourth quarter. Services revenue of $60.8 million grew 3% on a reported basis and on an organic basis, led by growth in QSP services.

服務業方面，受一級客戶群成長放緩的影響，預訂額為 5,580 萬美元，按報告資料計算下降了 9%。進入第四季度，我們繼續觀察到大型製藥客戶採取謹慎的決策方式。服務收入為 6,080 萬美元，按報告基準和有機基準計算成長 3%，其中 QSP 服務的成長帶動了這一成長。

On the innovation front, 2025 has been our most active product development year since our IPO. We've embedded artificial intelligence into both our development processes and our products, accelerating the pace of new model creation following our Vyasa acquisition. We launched several major products this quarter. Pinnacle 21 Enterprise, a cloud-based upgrade, improving regulatory data compliance and submission speed.

在創新方面，2025 年是我們自上市以來產品開發最活躍的一年。收購 Vyasa 後，我們已將人工智慧融入我們的開發流程和產品中，並加快了新型號的創建速度。本季我們推出了幾款重要產品。Pinnacle 21 Enterprise 是一款基於雲端的升級版，可提高監管資料合規性和提交速度。

Phoenix Cloud, which transitions our customers from on-premise to Certara Cloud deployment and provides significant upgrades to product functionality; and CertaraIQ, our new software for QSP modeling designed to expand the use of biosimulation across discovery and clinical phases. Early customer feedback on these releases has been excellent, and we're confident they strengthen our long-term software growth engine.

Phoenix Cloud 可將我們的客戶從本地部署過渡到 Certara Cloud 部署，並顯著提升產品功能；CertaraIQ 是我們用於 QSP 建模的新軟體，旨在擴展生物模擬在發現和臨床階段的應用。早期客戶對這些版本的回饋非常好，我們相信它們將增強我們軟體的長期成長動力。

Last year, we announced the strategic review of our regulatory services business. To date, we have made significant progress in our evaluation, including dialogue with external parties and significant internal analysis of best practices. As we evaluate our business, we recognize that regulatory writing performance has been inconsistent. Simultaneously, we value the regulatory writing business' ability to generate cash, which we have used to invest in growth and support recent share repurchases. At this point in time, we are in the final stages of our process and intend to share a definitive outcome before the end of 2025.

去年，我們宣布對監管服務業務進行策略性審查。迄今為止，我們在評估方面取得了重大進展，包括與外部各方進行對話以及對最佳實踐進行重要的內部分析。在評估我們的業務時，我們發現監管文件撰寫的表現一直不穩定。同時，我們重視監管寫作業務的現金創造能力，我們已將這些現金用於投資成長和支持最近的股票回購。目前，我們的流程已進入最後階段，並計劃在 2025 年底前公佈最終結果。

To close, we remain focused on delivering our 2025 plan and entering 2026 well prepared to capitalize on the opportunities ahead. Although we are seeing some variability in Tier 1 services, we are encouraged by the widespread momentum of biosimulation adoption in drug development.

最後，我們將繼續專注於實現 2025 年計劃，並做好充分準備迎接 2026 年，抓住未來的機會。儘管我們看到一級服務存在一些差異，但我們對生物模擬在藥物開發中的廣泛應用勢頭感到鼓舞。

I'll now hand things over to John Gallagher to discuss our financial results in more detail.

現在我將把發言權交給約翰·加拉格爾，讓他更詳細地討論我們的財務表現。

Thank you, William. Hello, everyone. Total revenue for the three months ended September 30, 2025, was $104.6 million, representing year-over-year growth of 10% on a reported basis and on a constant currency basis. Total bookings in the third quarter were $96.6 million, which increased 1% from the prior year period on a reported basis.

謝謝你，威廉。大家好。截至 2025 年 9 月 30 日止三個月，總營收為 1.046 億美元，以報告基準和固定匯率計算，年增 10%。第三季總預訂額為9,660萬美元，以報告數據計算，較上年同期成長1%。

Trailing 12-month bookings were $471.4 million, increasing 12% on a reported basis. Excluding Chemaxon, total company organic bookings declined 4% compared with the third quarter last year. Software revenue was $43.8 million in the third quarter, which increased 22% over the prior year period on a reported basis and 21% on a constant currency basis.

過去 12 個月的預訂額為 4.714 億美元，按報告數據計算增加了 12%。剔除 Chemaxon 的影響，公司整體有機預訂量較去年第三季下降了 4%。第三季軟體營收為 4,380 萬美元，按報告匯率計算比上年同期成長 22%，以固定匯率計算成長 21%。

Organic growth was 6% in the quarter, driven by strong growth from Simcyp. Chemaxon contributed $5.6 million to our reported revenue, which was in line with our expectations. Ratable and subscription revenue accounted for 65% of third quarter software revenues or 71% excluding Chemaxon, slightly down from 72% in the prior year period.

本季有機成長率為 6%，主要得益於 Simcyp 的強勁成長。Chemaxon 為我們報告的收入貢獻了 560 萬美元，這與我們的預期相符。計費和訂閱收入佔第三季軟體收入的 65%，若排除 Chemaxon，則佔 71%，略低於去年同期的 72%。

Software bookings were $40.8 million in the third quarter, which increased 17% from the prior year period. Third quarter bookings included $4.2 million of Chemaxon bookings. Organic software bookings grew 5% versus the prior year. Trailing 12-month software bookings were $187.9 million, up 23% year-over-year. And the software net retention rate was 104% in the quarter, consistent with our full year plan.

第三季軟體預訂額為 4,080 萬美元，較上年同期成長 17%。第三季訂單包括價值 420 萬美元的 Chemaxon 訂單。與去年相比，自然軟體預訂量增加了 5%。過去 12 個月的軟體預訂金額為 1.879 億美元，年增 23%。本季軟體淨留存率為 104%，與我們的全年計畫一致。

Looking at our software bookings performance by tier, we saw strong performance in Tiers 1 and 3, driven by the continued adoption of our software. In Tier 1, we saw some timing-related slowness due to renewals, which we expect to normalize in the fourth quarter.

從各層級的軟體預訂業績來看，我們發現第一層級和第三層級的業績表現強勁，這得益於我們軟體的持續普及。在第一梯隊中，由於續約問題，我們看到了一些與時間相關的放緩，我們預計這種情況將在第四季度恢復正常。

Now turning to services revenue, which was $60.8 million in the third quarter, up 3% versus the prior year period on a reported basis and on a constant currency basis. We saw strong performance from our QSP and Simcyp services businesses in the quarter, which was partially offset by softness in the regulatory services. Technology-driven services bookings in the third quarter were $55.8 million, which declined 9% from the prior year period. TTM services bookings were $283.5 million, up 6% as compared to the prior year.

現在來看服務收入，第三季服務收入為 6,080 萬美元，以報告匯率和固定匯率計算，比去年同期成長 3%。本季度，我們的 QSP 和 Simcyp 服務業務表現強勁，但監管服務業務的疲軟部分抵消了這一成長。第三季技術驅動型服務預訂額為 5,580 萬美元，比上年同期下降了 9%。截至目前，TTM 服務預訂金額為 2.835 億美元，比上年增長 6%。

During the quarter, we saw softer performance from Tier 1 customers and biosimulation services, driven by spending hesitancy among our largest customers. In regulatory, bookings declined in the double digits, while biosim services were down low single digits.

本季度，由於我們最大的客戶在支出方面猶豫不決，一級客戶和生物模擬服務的表現有所疲軟。在監管領域，預訂量出現了兩位數的下降，而生物模擬服務則出現了個位數的下降。

Total cost of revenue for the third quarter of 2025 was $39.7 million, an increase from $37.2 million in the third quarter of 2024, primarily due to higher software amortization and consulting expenses, offset by lower employee-related costs.

2025 年第三季的總收入成本為 3,970 萬美元，比 2024 年第三季的 3,720 萬美元有所增加，主要是由於軟體攤提和諮詢費用增加，但被員工相關成本降低所抵銷。

Total operating expenses for the third quarter of 2025 were $61.9 million, an increase from $55 million in the third quarter of 2024, primarily due to higher employee-related costs in sales and marketing and R&D.

2025 年第三季的總營運支出為 6,190 萬美元，比 2024 年第三季的 5,500 萬美元有所增加，主要原因是銷售和行銷以及研發方面的員工相關成本增加。

Adjusted EBITDA for the third quarter of 2025 was $35.2 million, an increase from $33.1 million in the third quarter of 2024. Adjusted EBITDA margin in the quarter was 34%.

2025 年第三季調整後 EBITDA 為 3,520 萬美元，高於 2024 年第三季的 3,310 萬美元。本季調整後 EBITDA 利潤率為 34%。

Wrapping up the income statement. Net income for the third quarter of 2025 was $1.5 million compared to a net loss of $1.4 million in the third quarter of 2024. Reported adjusted net income for the third quarter of 2025 was $22.2 million compared to $20.3 million for the third quarter of 2024. Diluted earnings per share for the third quarter of 2025 was $0.01 compared to a loss of $0.01 per share in the third quarter of 2024. Adjusted diluted earnings per share for the third quarter of 2025 was $0.14 compared to $0.13 per share in the third quarter of last year.

總結損益表。2025 年第三季淨收入為 150 萬美元，而 2024 年第三季淨虧損為 140 萬美元。2025 年第三季報告的調整後淨收入為 2,220 萬美元，而 2024 年第三季為 2,030 萬美元。2025 年第三季稀釋後每股收益為 0.01 美元，而 2024 年第三季每股虧損 0.01 美元。2025 年第三季調整後稀釋每股收益為 0.14 美元，去年第三季為每股 0.13 美元。

Moving to the balance sheet. We finished the quarter with $172.7 million in cash and cash equivalents. As of September 30, 2025, we had $293.1 million of outstanding borrowings on our term loan and full availability under our revolving credit facility. Subsequent to the end of the quarter, we executed a reprice of our outstanding term loan, which is expected to save $700,000 annually in interest expense beginning in 2026.

接下來查看資產負債表。本季末，我們持有現金及現金等價物1.727億美元。截至 2025 年 9 月 30 日，我們的定期貸款未償還借款為 2.931 億美元，循環信貸額度完全可用。季度結束後，我們對未償還的定期貸款進行了重新定價，預計從 2026 年開始，每年可節省 70 萬美元的利息支出。

Earlier this year, our Board authorized a $100 million share repurchase program. We have repurchased approximately $41 million of stock during 2025. With year-to-date results and our outlook for the fourth quarter, we are providing the following guidance for 2025. We are narrowing the revenue range to $415 million to $420 million, representing 8% to 9% growth compared with 2024.

今年早些時候，我們的董事會批准了一項1億美元的股票回購計畫。我們在 2025 年回購了約 4,100 萬美元的股票。根據今年迄今的業績以及我們對第四季度的展望，我們對 2025 年的業績做出以下預測。我們將營收範圍縮小至 4.15 億美元至 4.2 億美元，與 2024 年相比成長 8% 至 9%。

We expect Chemaxon to contribute software revenue of $23 million to $25 million. We expect an adjusted EBITDA margin around 32%, which is the high end of our previous guidance range, reflecting outperformance versus our internal profitability expectations to date. We expect adjusted EPS in the range of $0.45 to $0.47 per share, fully diluted shares in the range of 160 million to 162 million and a tax rate in the range of 25% to 30%.

我們預計 Chemaxon 將貢獻 2,300 萬美元至 2,500 萬美元的軟體收入。我們預計調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率約為 32%，這是我們先前預期範圍的高端，反映出迄今為止業績超出了我們內部的獲利預期。我們預計調整後每股收益在 0.45 美元至 0.47 美元之間，完全稀釋後的股份數量在 1.6 億股至 1.62 億股之間，稅率在 25% 至 30% 之間。

I will now turn the call back over to our CEO, William Feehery, for closing remarks.

現在我將把電話轉回給我們的執行長威廉·費赫里，請他作總結發言。

Thank you, John. To summarize our message today, our team is working diligently to execute our growth and profitability goals despite a mixed operating environment. We are excited to bring several new products to market and look forward to providing further updates on our progress early next year.

謝謝你，約翰。綜上所述，今天我們要傳達的訊息是：儘管經營環境喜憂參半，但我們的團隊正在努力實現我們的成長和獲利目標。我們很高興能將幾款新產品推向市場，並期待在明年初提供更多關於我們進展的最新消息。

Operator, can you please open the line for questions?

接線員，請問可以接通提問線路嗎？

Michael Cherny, Leerink Partners.

Michael Cherny，Leerink Partners。

This is Dan Clark on for Mike. Just wanted to ask a little bit on the Tier 1 services revenue or bookings dynamic in the quarter. I guess, one, when did you start to see a slowdown in decision-making timing? And of the potential deals that got pushed, I appreciate the color on some of them hopefully closing in 4Q with the remainder in 2026. How are you kind of thinking about that split at this point?

這裡是丹克拉克，替麥克報道。我想稍微了解一下本季一級服務收入或預訂情況的動態。我想問的是，你是什麼時候開始發現決策速度變慢的？在這些被提上日程的潛在交易中，我很高興看到其中一些交易預計在第四季度完成，其餘交易則預計在 2026 年完成。你現在對這次分裂有什麼看法？

Yes. As it relates to the bookings, so it was our Tier 1 services customers where we saw delays. And what we're seeing is hesitancy to a slowness in decision-making. And a lot of times, we would talk about that as impacting timing and trickling into the next quarter. But what we just said in the prepared remarks, though, is that through the month of October, we continue to see some deceleration in Tier 1 services bookings related to these larger customers of ours. And as a result of that, we're expecting it to continue in Q4.

是的。就預訂而言，我們發現延誤主要發生在我們的一級服務客戶身上。我們看到的是決策猶豫不決，甚至決策速度緩慢。很多時候，我們會談到這會影響時間安排，並逐漸影響下一個季度。但我們剛才在準備好的演講稿中提到，在整個 10 月份，我們繼續看到與這些大客戶相關的 Tier 1 服務預訂量有所放緩。因此，我們預計這種情況將在第四季度繼續。

David Windley, Jefferies.

David Windley，傑富瑞集團。

Hopefully, you can hear me. I'm in the car. I was hoping you could comment or disentangle the gross profit outperformance between mix and perhaps efficiency, productivity?

希望你能聽到我說話。我在車裡。我希望您能就毛利超額報酬與產品組合、效率和生產力之間的關係進行評論或分析？

Yes. Thank you, David. Yes. I mean -- so on the gross margin line, then we've certainly seen some productivity, especially compared to last year. You might recall, we did some reductions last year on the services side that hits cost of sales.

是的。謝謝你，大衛。是的。我的意思是——就毛利率而言，我們確實看到了一些生產力提升，特別是與去年相比。您可能還記得，去年我們在服務方面進行了一些削減，這影響了銷售成本。

We're still comping to that in the third quarter of this year. And therefore, some of that productivity is a key component of why the gross profit is accelerating. The other piece of it, of course, is the fact that we're achieving more mix on a software basis. So when we're looking -- the software business has, of course, a higher gross profit than services. So not only are we getting productivity on the cost of sales side when we look at services, but the mix shift towards software is also a tailwind to the gross profit.

今年第三季我們仍在與此進行比較。因此，部分生產力的提高是毛利加速成長的關鍵因素。當然，另一方面，我們也在軟體層面上實現了更多的混合播放。所以當我們審視這個問題時——軟體產業的毛利當然比服務業高。因此，當我們審視服務時，不僅在銷售成本方面獲得了生產力，而且向軟體的轉變也對毛利產生了積極影響。

I was going to make my next question, my second question about your areas of innovation, but it does end up being somewhat related. So think you talked about CertaraIQ is your more AI-enabled QSP and Phoenix Cloud launches. It sounds like those have been well received. The comment in the prepared about QSP being your fastest-growing area, maybe you could also drill into that because I think today, most of QSP is service-driven, but you're launching this, what I think sounds like a more technology or software-driven QSP. And how do you expect that to evolve?

我原本打算就你們的創新領域提出第二個問題，但結果發現它也與此有些關聯。所以你之前提到 CertaraIQ 是你更具人工智慧功能的 QSP 和 Phoenix Cloud 的發布。聽起來這些產品反應不錯。準備資料中提到 QSP 是你們成長最快的領域，也許你們也可以深入探討一下，因為我認為目前大多數 QSP 都是服務驅動的，但你們正在推出的這個，在我看來更像是技術或軟體驅動的 QSP。你認為這種情況會如何發展？

And does that growth in QSP mix kind of reverse the software mix until the technology -- the software picks up a little bit more. I'm just curious how the QSP feathers into that since you highlighted its growth.

QSP 組合的成長是否會在某種程度上逆轉軟體組合，直到技術——軟體——得到更多發展？我很好奇 QSP 如何融入其中，因為你專注於它的發展了。

Yes. Thanks, David. This is Bill. We are executing the strategy that we set out to do when we acquired Applied BioMath about whatever it was, about two years ago, which was to take QSP and to bring a software platform to it, and that is CertaraIQ, which we launched, as you pointed out. So there's a huge demand for QSP.

是的。謝謝你，大衛。這是比爾。我們正在執行大約兩年前收購 Applied BioMath 時制定的策略，當時我們不知道它是什麼，那就是收購 QSP 並為其引入一個軟體平台，而我們推出的 CertaraIQ 正是您指出的那樣。所以市場對QSP的需求非常大。

Some of it has to do with the recognition that this type of modeling has been quite useful now that the FDA has made its announcement on NAMs and on reducing the number of nonhuman primates. And some of it has to do with the growth in biotech or in large molecules where QSP has been particularly valuable.

部分原因是人們認識到，隨著 FDA 就 NAM 和減少非人靈長類動物的數量發表聲明，這種類型的模型現在非常有用。其中一些原因與生物技術或大分子領域的發展有關，而 QSP 在這些領域尤其有價值。

We're attempting, and I think we will very much succeed with this product to create a standard product that QSP modelers use not just within pharma companies, but also as they go forward and submit their models for approvals to regulators. There's a big need in the market for this, and there's a big opportunity to make QSP a lot more widespread by improving the efficiency of modeling, which we can do with AI and providing a platform where our consultants are much more efficient, providing the same platform so that our pharma customers are using the same platform internally and can also drive that kind of same efficiency, and we can get work going back and forth.

我們正在嘗試，而且我認為我們一定會憑藉這款產品取得成功，打造一款標準產品，供 QSP 建模人員不僅在製藥公司內部使用，而且在他們向監管機構提交模型以獲得批准時使用。市場對這方面有很大的需求，透過提高建模效率，我們可以讓 QSP 得到更廣泛的應用，而人工智慧和提供一個平台可以提高我們顧問的效率，提供相同的平台，以便我們的製藥客戶在內部使用相同的平台，也能提高同樣的效率，從而實現工作之間的雙向交流。

And then finally, this is an opportunity for us to create foundational models in particular therapeutic or drug modalities that we can sell over and over again using this software platform. So there's multiple ways that this will benefit the company financially as we go forward. There's nothing like it really on the QSP market. There's obviously modeling tools out there, but we believe this is a significant advance. It's been well received.

最後，這也是我們利用這個軟體平台，針對特定治療或藥物模式創建基礎模型，並反覆銷售這些模型的機會。因此，從長遠來看，這將從多個方面為公司帶來經濟利益。QSP市場上真的沒有類似的產品。顯然，市面上已經有一些建模工具，但我們認為這是一個重大進步。它受到了好評。

We only launched it a couple of weeks ago. So it's a bit early to talk about the financial success, obviously, but we expect as we go into 2026, this will be a success for the company.

我們才推出這個產品幾週時間。所以現在談論財務上的成功顯然還為時過早，但我們預計，到了 2026 年，這對公司來說將是一個成功。

Matt Hewitt, Craig-Hallum Capital Group.

馬特·休伊特，克雷格-哈勒姆資本集團。

I apologize, I'm having to hop between a couple of different calls. But first off, I recognize that there's some challenges or hesitancy with your Tier 1 customers. I'm just curious if you've heard or seen any change since we got a little bit of clarity on the most favored nation pricing and what that could mean, some clarity on the tariffs and what that impact could be. I mean we've heard from a few other companies that post some of those initial most favored nation type contracts or changes that pharma was kind of reengaging. Is that similar to what you're seeing? Or any color along those lines?

抱歉，我得在幾個不同的電話之間切換。但首先，我意識到你們的一級客戶存在一些挑戰或猶豫。我只是好奇，自從我們對最惠國定價及其意義、關稅及其影響有了更清晰的了解之後，你是否聽說或看到任何變化。我的意思是，我們從其他一些公司聽說，他們發布了一些最初的最惠國待遇類型的合約或變更，製藥公司似乎正在重新參與其中。你看到的景象和這類似嗎？或其他類似的顏色？

Yes. Thanks. This is Bill. We have also heard other companies talking about that and heard some discussion among customers. So I would say that we're cautiously optimistic that's a pretty recent development.

是的。謝謝。這是比爾。我們也聽到其他公司談論過這個問題，也聽到一些客戶在討論這個問題。所以我認為我們對此持謹慎樂觀態度，這是一個相當新的進展。

So we need to see that kind of get out in the marketplace. But I think any sign of kind of the macro stability for the Tier 1 customers and the -- and what's going on with pricing, I think, would be ultimately good for us and will flow into hopefully a better environment as we go into 2026.

所以我們要看到這類產品進入市場。但我認為，任何一級客戶宏觀穩定的跡象，以及定價方面的變化，最終都將對我們有利，並有望在 2026 年為我們創造一個更好的環境。

Got it. And then maybe just as a follow-up, and I realize it's still very early, and we haven't even closed out this year yet. But as you're talking to your customers, not only about the remainder of fiscal '25, but as they're starting to think about their budgets for fiscal '26, are you getting any sense for where those budgets may be going? Any sense for how modeling and simulation fits into those budgetary plans for '26, recognizing, yes, it's early days, but having gone through this now for a while, I sense you guys might have a feel for, okay, if we're hearing this at this stage, that bodes well for the final budgets when they're announced later this year or early next year.

知道了。然後，也許可以作為後續補充，我知道現在還為時過早，今年甚至還沒結束。但是，當您與客戶交談時，不僅要談到 2025 財年的剩餘時間，還要談到他們開始考慮 2026 財年的預算時，您是否對這些預算的走向有任何了解？對於建模和模擬如何融入 2026 年的預算計劃，您有什麼看法？我知道現在還處於早期階段，但經過一段時間的摸索，我覺得你們可能已經有所了解，如果我們在這個階段聽到這些，那就預示著今年晚些時候或明年年初公佈的最終預算將會很順利。

Yes. I mean, we obviously only have anecdotes you're asking a question about the overall industry. So what I can say is I think some of our new products have been very well received. People have talked about making sure that there will be budget for them as they go into 2026. And we're getting some sense that the pullback in services is not across the entire industry.

是的。我的意思是，我們顯然只有一些軼事，而你問的是關於整個行業的問題。所以，我可以說，我們的一些新產品反應非常好。人們一直在討論如何確保他們在 2026 年之前有預算支持。我們逐漸意識到，服務業的萎縮並非遍及整個產業。

We see it in Tier 1s. We're actually doing quite well with Tier 3s with biotechs right now. The Tier 1 seems to be kind of a hesitancy based on the overall macroeconomic environment. And I think every time we hear kind of positive signs of stability, things get a little bit more bright for us. So we're not -- what I've heard and we're expecting kind of want to call it a stabilizing environment, I guess, is the way I'll put it as we go into 2026 as opposed to kind of where we've seen part of this year where it's been getting a little bit tougher.

我們在一級聯賽中看到了這種情況。目前我們與三級生技公司合作的情況相當不錯。一級市場似乎對整體宏觀經濟環境有所猶豫。我認為，每當我們聽到一些積極的穩定跡象時，我們的處境就會好轉一些。所以，我聽到的和我們預期的，我想稱之為穩定的環境，我想，這就是我進入 2026 年時的說法，而不是像今年部分時間那樣，情況變得有點艱難。

Luke Sergott, Barclays.

盧克·塞爾戈特，巴克萊銀行。

Brendan Smith, TD Cowen.

布倫丹史密斯，TD Cowen。

Actually, I just wanted to follow up on some of the earlier questions related to the software business a little bit more. And this is frankly something we're just asked by investors a fair amount. But I guess we're obviously seeing pharma and some of those Tier 1 customers invest a lot more internally in some of their own AI plus capabilities. And I guess, do you kind of feel that's net-net headwinds, tailwinds, maybe a wash to where you guys come out? Just trying to understand like to what extent as they build out those capabilities, they turn to you all to help make sure that those internal processes are ramping as they should? Or is it kind of an or rather than an and within their budgets just based on your conversations?

實際上，我只是想就之前一些與軟體業務相關的問題再補充一些內容。坦白說，投資人經常問我們這個問題。但我認為我們顯然看到製藥公司和一些一級客戶在內部投入更多資金來提升他們自身的人工智慧能力。所以我想，你覺得這最終是利弊權衡，還是順風相抵，或者說最終結果可能持平？我只是想了解，隨著他們不斷提升這些能力，他們會在多大程度上尋求你們的幫助，以確保這些內部流程能夠如預期地推進？或者，根據你們的談話，這更像是一種“或”而不是“和”，在他們的預算範圍內？

Yes. Thanks for the question. What we've seen happen with AI has been tremendous. This is starting more than a year ago, a tremendous excitement and willingness to try things in pharma, but somewhat of a hesitancy to commit to enterprise sales until they understood the full implications of putting AI in terms of data security and how the products will be used, sort of the, let's call it, the quality controls that you need to put in around AI and some of these uses.

是的。謝謝你的提問。人工智慧領域的成就令人矚目。這一切始於一年多前，當時人們對製藥業充滿熱情，並樂於嘗試，但在了解人工智慧在資料安全方面的全部影響以及產品的使用方式之前，他們對投入企業銷售持謹慎態度，也就是需要圍繞人工智慧及其某些用途建立的品質控制。

So we saw a lot of -- in the beginning, there were really great marketing opportunities, but slow to sell. And as we've gotten through 2025, we've seen somewhat of a pickup in actual sales of the pure AI products. All of our products that we've recently launched, well, let's say, Phoenix and CertaraIQ have embedded AI in them, and that's been quite well received. And I think we're seeing a bit more willingness to move faster to put these things in as you deploy them across the enterprise.

所以我們看到，一開始有很多非常好的行銷機會，但銷售速度卻很慢。隨著我們進入 2025 年，我們看到純人工智慧產品的實際銷售有所回升。我們最近推出的所有產品，例如 Phoenix 和 CertaraIQ，都內建了人工智慧，而且反應相當不錯。我認為，隨著企業範圍內的部署，我們看到企業越來越願意加快步伐，盡快將這些東西引入系統中。

You're asking a somewhat different question also around is pharma considering building our core products using AI internally versus buying them from us. The core modeling technologies we have are really quite specialized. And so we're -- that doesn't tend to be a real option. And you can see that with our software, which is still growing quite nicely, and we expect will continue to be strong as we go into 2026.

你提出的問題有點不同，那就是製藥公司是否考慮使用人工智慧在內部建立核心產品，而不是從我們這裡購買。我們擁有的核心建模技術確實非常專業化。所以，這通常不是一個真正的選擇。從我們的軟體中可以看出這一點，它仍在穩步增長，我們預計到 2026 年將繼續保持強勁勢頭。

Joe Vruwink, Baird.

Joe Vruwink，Baird。

Just to go back a couple of questions ago, you mentioned the prospect of stabilized environment for 2026. What do you think stabilized means for Certara growth potential at this point? And I just ask as the last three years have obviously seen a lot of macro turbulence, Organic growth has averaged 3% to 4% over that stretch of time. Is stabilized supportive of mid to high single-digit growth and robust gets you back to the double digits? Or any way directionally, just appreciating kind of what the company has been through over recent history?

回到前幾個問題，您提到了 2026 年環境趨於穩定的前景。您認為「穩定」對於 Certara 目前的成長潛力意味著什麼？我之所以問這個問題，是因為過去三年宏觀經濟顯然經歷了許多動盪，在此期間，有機成長率平均為 3% 至 4%。穩定成長是否能支持中高個位數成長，而強勁成長是否能讓你重回兩位數成長？或者從任何角度來看，只是欣賞一下公司在近期的歷史中所經歷的一切？

Yes. Joe, so as it relates to us calling it stabilized, and really, what we're saying is we see continued performance on the software side, which has been playing out according to plan this year. So year-to-date software bookings have been 7% on a TTM basis. And then we're seeing -- or 6% year-to-date, 7% TPM and then 6% organic software this year. And then we're adding the products that Bill was talking about, of course, too. So those are the positives.

是的。Joe，所以就我們稱之為穩定而言，實際上，我們想說的是，我們看到軟體方面持續保持良好表現，而今年的進展也一直按計劃進行。因此，今年迄今的軟體預訂量按 TTM 計算增長了 7%。然後我們看到——或者說今年迄今為止增長了 6%，TPM 增長了 7%，然後今年有機軟體增長了 6%。當然，我們也會加入比爾提到的那些產品。以上就是正面的方面。

The headwind to all that is what we're seeing in services right now. And we saw it -- you can see it in the Q3 results. But you can also see it -- we saw it in October. And that's why we were indicating that as we look towards the end of the year this year, we're not really expecting to see the same level of seasonality that we've seen over prior years. And so that's going to provide a bit lower of a jumping off point as it relates to services.

所有這一切都面臨著來自服務業的阻力。我們看到了——你可以從第三季業績看到。但你也可以看到它——我們十月就看到了。因此，我們表示，展望今年年底，我們預計不會再出現像往年那樣明顯的季節性波動。因此，就服務而言，這將提供一個稍低的起點。

So services is likely to be in the low single digits as we approach next year as a result of that. So software going well, playing out according to plan. We've got new products, but services is the spot that we're keeping our eye on as we finish '26.

因此，預計到明年，服務業成長將降至個位數。軟體運作良好，一切都在按計劃進行。我們有了新產品，但在 2026 年即將結束之際，我們最關注的還是服務。

Okay. That's helpful color. Just to go back to David's question on gross margin. As I look at the mix of software sales this year, a lot of the incremental growth has come from higher license sales as opposed to subscriptions. Does that -- and that might be Chemaxon related, but in case it's not, is that a beneficial margin mix to year-to-date results? Or how to think of that versus a higher proportion of, I guess, ratable subscription revenue?

好的。這是個很有幫助的顏色。回到大衛關於毛利率的問題。從今年的軟體銷售組成來看，大部分成長都來自更高的授權銷售額，而不是訂閱銷售額。這是否——這可能與 Chemaxon 有關，但如果不是，這是否有利於年初至今的表現？或者，如何看待這種情況與更高比例的（我猜是）可計入的訂閱收入之間的關係呢？

Yes, you've got that straight, Joe. So bringing in Chemaxon, Chemaxon is predominantly a license based, at least right now. So whenever we're recognizing revenue there, we're getting all of it at once. And so that, combined with Phoenix achievement on revenue this year is what's helping the gross margin, if you will, from that perspective, while at the same time, it's reducing the proportion of ratable that we have. And that's why I like to cite it not just what the ratable portion of software is, but even excluding Chemaxon is a better comp to the prior year.

是的，你理解得沒錯，喬。所以，引入Chemaxon，Chemaxon目前主要是一種基於授權許可的模式。所以，每當我們確認收入時，我們都會一次收到全部收入。因此，從這個角度來看，再加上 Phoenix 今年在營收方面的成就，有助於提高毛利率，同時，也降低了我們應計入的毛利率比例。因此，我喜歡引用它，不僅要說明軟體的可評級部分是多少，而且即使排除 Chemaxon，也能更好地與上一年進行比較。

Kyle Crews, UBS.

Kyle Crews，瑞銀集團。

You mentioned that customers were adopting model-informed drug development for use in toxicity and dosing analysis. CBR earlier in October here announced that you could use potentially pharmacokinetic analysis to replace some animal testing for first-in-human dosing. Can you elaborate a bit more on that point that you made earlier in the call?

您提到客戶正在採用基於模型的藥物開發方法，用於毒性和劑量分析。CBR 於 10 月初在此宣布，可以使用藥物動力學分析來取代一些動物試驗，以進行首次人體給藥。您能否再詳細闡述您在通話早期提到的那一點？

Yes. One of the significant uses around QSP has been in these two areas. So first-in-human dosing has been particular area of interest in pharma for modeling. It doesn't sound like the biggest problem. But when you really think about it, the initial dose that gets tried in a Phase I trial really defines the range that will be used for all trials later.

是的。QSP 的一個重要應用領域就是這兩個面向。因此，首次人體給藥一直是製藥建模領域特別感興趣的領域。聽起來不像是個大問題。但仔細想想，在 I 期試驗中嘗試的初始劑量實際上決定了以後所有試驗將使用的劑量範圍。

Many of the -- if the doses that are tried are outside the effective or the safe range, they're kind of wasted. And so that's been recognized by a lot of companies in the pharmaceutical industry, and it's been also good to see that the regulators are paying attention and are encouraging it as well. So that's been one of the reasons for the uptake in modeling services like QSP that we've seen.

許多嘗試——如果劑量超出有效或安全範圍，那就有點浪費了。因此，製藥業的許多公司都意識到了這一點，令人欣慰的是，監管機構也對此表示關注和鼓勵。所以，這就是我們看到的 QSP 等建模服務被廣泛採用的原因之一。

Great. Can you speak briefly on your exposure to biologics or small molecule drugs at this point with your software offerings?

偉大的。您能否簡單談談目前貴公司在生物製劑或小分子藥物領域的應用情況，以及貴公司提供的軟體產品？

We have exposure to both. We are fair -- we always said, and I believe this has not changed, that our exposure is pretty similar to what the pharmaceutical industry as a whole is working on at any given point. So the questions that get asked in modeling between small molecules and large molecules are often somewhat different. For example, small molecules, there can be more formulation questions and absorption questions. In large molecules, there are often more questions around things like dosing and immunological responses and things like that.

我們兩者都接觸過。我們秉持公平原則——我們一直都說，而且我相信這一點沒有改變，那就是我們面臨的風險與整個製藥業在任何特定時期所面臨的風險都非常相似。因此，在對小分子和大分子進行建模時，提出的問題往往有所不同。例如，對於小分子，可能會有更多的製劑問題和吸收問題。對於大分子藥物，通常會有更多關於劑量、免疫反應等方面的問題。

However, we have products targeted for both. We have quite healthy and active businesses for both technologies and even other technologies that maybe don't even quite fit this kind of definition. For example, we've got products focused on radioligands and peptides, things like that. So I think we're pretty well covered in terms of our exposure and our investment in the technology to kind of serve both of these.

但是，我們有針對這兩方面的產品。我們擁有相當健康且活躍的業務，涵蓋了各種技術領域，甚至包括一些可能不完全符合這種定義的其他技術領域。例如，我們有專注於放射性配體和勝肽等產品。所以我覺得，就我們的業務範圍和技術投入而言，我們已經做得相當不錯了，足以服務這兩方面。

Max Smock, William Blair.

馬克斯·斯莫克，威廉·布萊爾。

John, maybe just want to follow up on some of your earlier commentary around services bookings, particularly in Q4. I think you mentioned you haven't seen much improvement or you didn't see much improvement in October. Just kind of looking back historically, I typically see a 30%, 40% sequential increase in bookings in Q4. Can you just kind of frame out, given the volatility quarter-to-quarter here, how you're thinking about just kind of the range of outcomes on the services bookings in Q4? Just to give us some more color around what the organic growth of that segment can look like in 2026.

約翰，或許我想就你之前關於服務預訂，特別是第四季度的一些評論做個後續說明。我想你之前說過，你沒有看到太大的改善，或是說你在十月沒有看到太大的改善。回顧歷史數據，我通常看到第四季的預訂量較上季成長 30% 到 40%。鑑於季度間的波動性，您能否大致概述一下您如何看待第四季度服務預訂量的各種可能結果？為了讓我們更清楚地了解該領域在 2026 年的自然成長情況。

Max, so we do still expect from Q3 into Q4 a sequential increase, but not to the same magnitude that we've seen historically. Historically, you've seen a book-to-bill in Q4 that's 1.3 to 1.4, and we don't anticipate that being the case given what we've seen through October.

所以我們仍然預計從第三季到第四季會有環比成長，但不會達到歷史上所看到的幅度。從歷史數據來看，第四季度的訂單出貨比通常在 1.3 到 1.4 之間，但鑑於我們截至 10 月所看到的情況，我們預計不會發生這種情況。

That's helpful. Maybe just one on the margin side. Really nice performance in the quarter. And I know in the past, you talked about maybe pulling back on some of your investments if the macro environment got a little bit more challenging. Just want to make sure that, that wasn't a factor that contributed to the beat on margins in the third quarter here.

那很有幫助。或許只有邊緣一側有一個。本季業績非常出色。我知道你過去曾說過，如果宏觀環境變得更具挑戰性，你可能會減少一些投資。我只是想確認一下，這是否是導致第三季利潤率超出預期的因素。

And then as we're thinking out in 2026, can you just talk about how you're kind of prioritizing the opportunity that you have here to continue to advance or invest in your pipeline versus prioritizing margin expansion? And just your initial thoughts on how we should be thinking about margins moving forward?

那麼，當我們展望 2026 年時，您能否談談您如何優先考慮繼續推進或投資您的產品線，而不是優先考慮利潤率擴張？您對我們未來應該如何看待利潤率有什麼初步想法？

Yes. Yes. So definitely not pulling back on the investments, and you can see that reflected in the 24% growth in R&D year-on-year. So we're continuing to make those investments. good discipline across the rest of the P&L.

是的。是的。所以絕對不會減少投資，這點可以從研發投入年增 24% 看出。因此，我們將繼續進行這些投資。損益表其他部分也保持良好的紀律性。

We talked a little bit about gross profit. But if you exclude Chemaxon from the expense lines, you'd see that they're in line or lower than growing at the rate of sales. So I'd say, yes, making the investments, absolutely. You can most notably see that reflected in the R&D line as you would expect. And there is more investment to come as we look at next year.

我們簡單聊了聊毛利潤。但如果你把 Chemaxon 從費用項目中排除出去，你會發現它們的成長速度與銷售額的成長速度持平或低於銷售額的成長速度。所以我會說，是的，絕對應該進行投資。正如你所預料的那樣，這一點在研發領域中體現得最為明顯。展望明年，預計將有更多投資。

But we've been pleased with our ability to navigate both making those investments in software development while also preserving our margin.

但我們很高興能夠既進行軟體開發的投資，又能維持利潤率。

John Park, Morgan Stanley.

約翰‧帕克，摩根士丹利。

I was wondering, I know you guys talked about Tier 1 and some of the macros that they're facing. I was wondering if you could talk to Tier 2 and Tier 3, acknowledging that they make up a smaller portion of the revenue, but is it any different in terms of some of the macro headwinds that Tier 1s are facing?

我想問一下，我知道你們討論過一級聯賽以及他們面臨的一些宏。我想問一下，您是否可以和二線和三線供應商談談，雖然他們所佔的收入比例較小，但他們在面臨的一些宏觀不利因素方面是否與一線供應商有所不同？

Yes, that's a bright spot for us actually. So Tier 3, both Tier 2 and Tier 3 services have had good growth throughout the year. And in fact, in Q3, we saw double-digit growth in biosim services Tier 3. So this has been a partial offset to the headwinds that we've been describing in Tier 1 has been the positive growth and momentum that we have in Tier 2 and most notably in Tier 3.

是的，這對我們來說確實是個好消息。因此，三級服務，包括二級和三級服務，全年都取得了良好的成長。事實上，在第三季度，我們看到生物模擬服務三級業務實現了兩位數的成長。因此，我們在第一層級所描述的不利因素，在第二層級，尤其是第三層級所取得的正面成長和勢頭，在某種程度上抵消了這些不利因素。

Great. And just as a follow-up, I know you guys work with the FDA. I was wondering if there was any type of waterfall implications with the government shutdown regarding -- for FDA or any of the agencies you guys work with?

偉大的。另外，我想問一下，我知道你們與美國食品藥物管理局 (FDA) 有合作關係。我想知道政府停擺是否會對FDA或你們合作的任何機構的撥款流程產生任何影響？

Yes. Thanks for the question. It's I guess the question revolves around how long it lasts. I think most people in the pharmaceutical industry believe that this will resolve itself at some point and that point will be less time than causes serious issues. It goes on for a really long time, and we have a big slowdown in drug approvals or something, that's one thing, but I don't think that, that's really what people believe.

是的。謝謝你的提問。我想問題的關鍵在於它能持續多久。我認為製藥業的大多數人都相信這個問題遲早會得到解決，而且解決的時間不會太長，不會造成嚴重問題。這種情況持續了很長時間，藥物審批速度也大幅放緩，這是一方面，但我認為這並不是人們真正相信的事情。

There's a little bit of slowdown in terms of any kind of contracting with the government, but we don't expect that will have a significant effect on the year.

與政府簽訂各種合約方面略有放緩，但我們預計這不會對今年產生重大影響。

Thank you. I am showing no further questions at this time. Thank you for your participation in today's conference. This does conclude the program. You may now disconnect.

謝謝。我目前沒有其他問題要問。感謝您參加今天的會議。節目到此結束。您現在可以斷開連線了。