世邦魏理仕集團 (CBRE) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the CBRE Q3 2025 earnings conference call and webcast. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It's now my pleasure to turn the call over to your host, Chandni Luthra, Global Head of FP&A and Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

大家好，歡迎參加世邦魏理仕2025年第三季財報電話會議及網路直播。（操作說明）提醒各位，本次會議正在錄音。現在我很高興將電話交給主持人，全球財務規劃與分析及投資者關係主管 Chandni Luthra。請繼續。

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to CBRE's third-quarter 2025 Earnings Conference Call. Earlier today, we posted a presentation deck on our website that you can use to follow along with our prepared remarks, and an Excel file that contains additional supplemental materials.

各位早安，歡迎參加世邦魏理仕2025年第三季財報電話會議。今天早些時候，我們在網站上發布了一份演示文稿，您可以根據這份簡報來聽我們準備好的發言，還有一個包含其他補充資料的 Excel 文件。

Today's presentation contains forward-looking statements, including, without limitation, statements concerning our business outlook, business plans and capital allocation strategy, as well as our earnings and cash flow outlook.

今天的簡報包含前瞻性陳述，包括但不限於有關我們業務前景、業務計劃和資本配置策略以及我們的收益和現金流前景的陳述。

These statements involve risks and uncertainties that may cause actual results and trends to differ materially. For a full discussion of these risks and other factors that may impact these statements, please refer to this morning's earnings release and our SEC filings.

這些聲明涉及風險和不確定性，可能導致實際結果和趨勢與實際情況有重大差異。有關這些風險以及可能影響這些聲明的其他因素的完整討論，請參閱今天早上發布的收益報告和我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件。

We provided reconciliations of the non-GAAP financial measures discussed on our call to the most directly comparable GAAP measures, together with explanations of these measures in our presentation deck appendix.

我們在電話會議中討論的非GAAP財務指標與最直接可比較的GAAP指標進行了調節，並在簡報附錄中對這些指標進行了解釋。

Throughout our remarks, when we cite financial performance relative to expectations, we are referring to actual results against the outlook we provided on our second-quarter 2025 earnings call in July, unless otherwise noted.

在我們的發言中，當我們提到財務業績與預期相比時，除非另有說明，否則我們指的是實際結果與我們在 7 月份 2025 年第二季度收益電話會議上提供的展望進行比較。

Also, as a reminder, our resilient businesses include facilities management, project management, property management, load servicing, valuations and other portfolio services and recurring investment management fees. Our transactional businesses comprised property sales, leasing, mortgage origination, carried interest and incentive fee in the investment management business and development fees.

另外，提醒大家，我們穩健的業務包括設施管理、專案管理、物業管理、負載服務、估值和其他投資組合服務以及經常性投資管理費。我們的交易業務包括房地產銷售、租賃、抵押貸款發放、投資管理業務中的附帶權益和激勵費用以及開發費用。

Before we begin, a brief technical matter, we want to note that we recently responded to a comment letter from the SEC regarding our presentation of net revenue. Going forward, while we will continue to provide supplemental information to help you understand the portion of our revenue that is pass-through in nature, our formal reporting will focus on gross revenue. I'm joined on today's call by Bob Sulentic, our Chair and CEO; and Emma Giamartino, our Chief Financial Officer.

在開始之前，先簡單說明一下技術方面的問題。我們想指出，我們最近回覆了美國證券交易委員會關於我們淨收入列報方式的評論信。展望未來，雖然我們將繼續提供補充信息，幫助您了解我們收入中屬於轉嫁性質的部分，但我們的正式報告將側重於總收入。今天與我一起參加電話會議的有我們的董事長兼執行長鮑勃·蘇倫蒂克，以及我們的財務長艾瑪·賈馬蒂諾。

Now please turn to slide 3 as I turn the call over to Bob.

現在請翻到第 3 張投影片，我將把通話交給鮑伯。

Thanks, Chandni, and good morning, everyone. CBRE continued to produce excellent results in the third quarter. All four segments delivered strong growth and operating leverage, and we exceeded expectations we had going into the quarter. We often talk about our breadth and depth across asset type, client type, line of business and geography. This breadth and depth gives us scale that supports our strategy in many ways.

謝謝Chandni，大家早安。世邦魏理仕第三季持續取得優異業績。所有四個業務板塊均實現了強勁成長和營運槓桿效應，超出了我們本季初的預期。我們經常談到我們在資產類型、客戶類型、業務線和地理方面的廣度和深度。這種廣度和深度使我們擁有了規模優勢，這在許多方面都支持我們的策略。

These include recruiting from inside and outside the sector, developing integrated solutions for clients, making capital investments and creating an information advantage. Our scale is particularly helpful in driving growth in areas that are either secularly favored or cyclically resilient.

這些措施包括從行業內外招募人才、為客戶開發綜合解決方案、進行資本投資以及創造資訊優勢。我們的規模對於推動那些長期有利或週期性韌性強的領域的成長尤為重要。

This came through clearly in our third-quarter results. The data center asset type and related client group provides a good example. We produced nearly $700 million of revenue from data centers in the third quarter, 40% more than in 2024's third quarter. This contributed to profitability in all four segments accounting for about 10% of overall EBITDA for the quarter.

這一點在我們的第三季業績中體現得非常明顯。資料中心資產類型及其相關客戶群就是一個很好的例子。第三季度，我們從資料中心獲得了近 7 億美元的收入，比 2024 年第三季成長了 40%。這使得所有四個業務部門都實現了盈利，約佔該季度整體 EBITDA 的 10%。

From a geographic perspective, Japan and India are particularly well positioned for sustained secular growth in commercial real estate services. We have large businesses in both countries, and in Q3, their combined revenue rose more than 30% to nearly $400 million. Given our results year-to-date and momentum in our business, we are raising our full-year core EPS outlook to $6.25 to $6.35, from $6.10 to $6.20.

從地理角度來看，日本和印度在商業房地產服務領域具有持續長期成長的有利條件。我們在這兩個國家都有大型業務，第三季度，它們的總收入成長超過 30%，達到近 4 億美元。鑑於我們今年迄今的業績和業務發展勢頭，我們將全年核心每股收益預期從 6.10 美元至 6.20 美元上調至 6.25 美元至 6.35 美元。

Emma will discuss our outlook after she reviews the quarter's highlights. Emma?

艾瑪將在回顧本季亮點後，討論我們的展望。艾瑪？

Thank you, Bob. Good morning, everyone. Our third-quarter results exceeded expectations across the board, highlighted by 34% growth in core EPS and 19% in core EBITDA. We delivered double-digit revenue gains in both our resilient and transactional businesses, underscoring the balanced strength of our business.

謝謝你，鮑伯。各位早安。我們第三季的業績全面超出預期，其中核心每股收益成長了 34%，核心 EBITDA 成長了 19%。我們在韌性業務和交易業務方面均實現了兩位數的營收成長，凸顯了我們業務的均衡實力。

Throughout my segment discussion, I will cite growth rates in local currency. This does not reflect the 1% to 2% FX benefit to the USD growth rates. As Chandni mentioned, we will no longer report net revenue. However, internally, we continue to focus on revenue, excluding pass-through costs, as our primary growth metric as we believe it best captures the value of the services we deliver to our clients.

在我的討論部分，我將引用以當地貨幣計價的成長率。這並未反映出匯率波動對美元成長率帶來的 1% 至 2% 的利多。正如 Chandni 所提到的，我們將不再公佈淨收入。然而，在公司內部，我們仍然將收入（不包括轉嫁成本）作為主要的成長指標，因為我們認為它最能反映我們為客戶提供的服務的價值。

Now I'll detail our performance for each segment, beginning on slide 4. In Advisory Services, revenue growth exceeded expectations, rising 16%, led by outperformance in both leasing and sales. Global leasing revenue rose 17%, accelerating from the second quarter despite a tougher year-over-year comparison. In the US, leasing reached its highest level for any third quarter, growing 18%.

現在我將詳細介紹我們每個部分的表現，從第 4 張投影片開始。在諮詢服務方面，收入成長超出預期，成長了 16%，這主要得益於租賃和銷售業務的出色表現。全球租賃收入成長 17%，儘管年比基數較高，但成長速度仍較第二季有所加快。在美國，租賃業務在第三季達到有史以來最高水平，成長了 18%。

US industrial increased 27% as third-party logistics providers continued to take more space and larger occupiers came back to the market. Data center leasing picked up materially, resulting in a more than doubling of revenue over last year. In addition, US office leasing once again rose by double digits. Outside the US, APAC leasing was strong driven by India, Japan, while results were mixed in Europe.

由於第三方物流供應商繼續佔用更多空間，以及大型租戶重返市場，美國工業房地產價格上漲了 27%。資料中心租賃業務大幅成長，營收比去年翻了一番還多。此外，美國辦公室租賃市場再次實現兩位數成長。除美國以外，亞太地區的租賃市場表現強勁，主要受印度和日本的推動，而歐洲市場的租賃市場則是喜憂參半。

Our property sales business delivered 28% revenue growth. Like leasing US sales saw strength in office, industrial and data centers. Outside the US, we saw particularly strong sales growth in Germany, the Netherlands and Japan. High-teens mortgage origination revenue growth was driven by an increase in origination fees, primarily from CMBS lenders, banks and debt funds. Advisory SOP grew 23%, reflecting strong operating leverage.

我們的房地產銷售業務實現了 28% 的收入成長。與租賃業務類似，美國銷售在辦公大樓、工業和資料中心領域表現強勁。在美國以外，我們在德國、荷蘭和日本的銷售成長尤其強勁。抵押貸款發放收入成長超過10%，主要得益於發放費用的增加，而發放費用主要來自商業抵押貸款支持證券 (CMBS) 貸款機構、銀行和債務基金。諮詢業務標準營運流程成長了 23%，反映了強勁的營運槓桿作用。

Turning to our Building Operations & Experience segment on slide 5, we saw 11% revenue growth. In the enterprise business, growth was driven by work for data center hyperscalers as well as new client wins and expansions in the technology, life sciences and health care sectors.

在第 5 張投影片中，我們看到建築營運與體驗部分的收入成長了 11%。在企業業務方面，成長主要得益於為資料中心超大規模企業提供的業務，以及在技術、生命科學和醫療保健領域贏得的新客戶和業務擴張。

Our local business achieved a mid-teens revenue increase supported by continued growth in the UK and the Americas. Revenue in the Americas was up 30%, reflecting strong market share gains for this business. BOE SOP grew 15%, delivering operating leverage driven by continued cost efficiencies across the segment. Please turn to slide 6.

由於英國和美洲市場的持續成長，我們本地業務的收入實現了兩位數以上的成長。美洲地區的收入成長了 30%，反映出該業務的市場份額大幅成長。BOE SOP 成長 15%，透過整個業務部門持續的成本效率提升實現了營運槓桿效應。請翻到第6張投影片。

In the Project Management segment, revenue increased 19%, while pass-through costs rose 23%. We achieved broad-based double-digit revenue growth supported by the UK, the Middle East and North America.

在專案管理領域，營收成長了 19%，而轉嫁成本成長了 23%。在英國、中東和北美市場的支持下，我們實現了兩位數的全面營收成長。

Legacy Turner & Townsend's revenue in North America has more than doubled since 2022, demonstrating the benefit of being part of the larger CBRE platform. And we see significant runway for further gains in this large, lightly penetrated market.

自 2022 年以來，Legacy Turner & Townsend 在北美的收入翻了一番多，這表明成為更大的 CBRE 平台的一部分是有益的。我們看到，在這個規模龐大、滲透率較低的市場中，還有很大的成長空間。

Across client sectors, we saw strong activity with the UK government, reflecting a large national health care mandate and ongoing demand for hyperscalers for data center projects. This growth was slightly offset by continued softness from certain technology clients that are focusing capital spending on AI investments.

在各個客戶領域，我們看到與英國政府的業務往來十分活躍，這反映出英國政府在國家醫療保健方面擁有巨大的影響力，並且對數據中心項目的超大規模數據中心運營商的需求持續增長。這一成長被某些科技客戶持續疲軟的支出所部分抵消，這些客戶將資本支出重點放在人工智慧投資上。

Project Management SOP grew 16%, delivering operating leverage when viewed as a percentage of revenue excluding pass-through costs. In Real Estate Investments on slide 7, segment operating profit was up 8%, in line with our expectations. In investment management, we raised $2.4 billion of new capital in the quarter and are on track for a strong fundraising year. AUM ended the quarter at approximately $156 billion, up $500 million for the quarter. AUM growth in the quarter was tempered by currency headwinds. Absent these headwinds, AUM increased $1.3 billion.

專案管理 SOP 成長了 16%，從不計入轉嫁成本的收入百分比來看，實現了營運槓桿效應。在投影片 7 的房地產投資部分，分部營業利潤成長了 8%，符合我們的預期。在投資管理方面，我們本季籌集了 24 億美元的新資金，並有望迎來強勁的籌款年。本季末資產管理規模約1,560億美元，較上季增加5億美元。本季資產管理規模成長受到匯率不利因素的影響。如果沒有這些不利因素，資產管理規模增加了 13 億美元。

In development, operating profit also met expectations. Our strategic land acquisitions in recent years coupled with our land development and entitlement capabilities position us to capitalize on demand for large data center development sites.

在開發方面，營業利潤也符合預期。近年來，我們透過策略性土地收購，加上我們的土地開發和產權能力，使我們能夠充分利用對大型資料中心開髮用地的需求。

We expect to monetize several of these sites later this year or next year. We continue to believe our development portfolio has more than $900 million of embedded profits that will be monetized over the next five years. As always, the timing of asset monetization, especially between quarters, can be difficult to predict with precision.

我們預計將在今年稍後或明年實現其中幾個網站的商業化。我們仍然相信，我們的開發項目組合蘊含著超過 9 億美元的利潤，這些利潤將在未來五年內變現。與以往一樣，資產變現的時機，尤其是在季度之間，很難精確預測。

Now I'll turn to our balance sheet and capital allocation on slide 8. In keeping with our expectations of better full-year performance, we now expect to generate approximately $1.8 billion of free cash flow for the year. Net leverage stood at 1.2 turns at quarter-end, and we continue to expect to delever through the end of the year.

現在我將轉到第 8 頁，介紹我們的資產負債表和資本配置。為了實現全年業績更好的預期，我們現在預計全年將產生約 18 億美元的自由現金流。截至季末，淨槓桿率為 1.2 倍，我們預計到年底將繼續降低槓桿率。

Please turn to slide 9. As Bob mentioned, we've raised our full-year core EPS guidance to $6.25 to $6.35, reflecting our outperformance to date and confidence in our fourth quarter pipeline. Our outlook includes contributions from the data center site dispositions in our development business.

請翻到第9頁投影片。正如鮑勃所提到的，我們已將全年核心每股收益預期上調至 6.25 美元至 6.35 美元，這反映了我們迄今為止的優異表現以及對第四季度業績的信心。我們的展望包括來自我們開發業務中資料中心選址處置的貢獻。

The midpoint of our new guidance range reflects 24% growth and would be more than 10% above our prior peak EPS. This is a notable outcome produced within only two years of the commercial real estate market trough.

我們新的業績指引範圍的中點反映了 24% 的成長，比我們之前的每股盈餘高峰高出 10% 以上。這是在商業房地產市場低迷期僅兩年內取得的顯著成果。

With that, I'll turn the call back to the operator for questions.

這樣，我就把電話轉回接線生，回答大家的問題。

Thank you. And I'll be conducting your question-and-answer session. (Operator Instructions)

謝謝。我將主持問答環節。（操作說明）

Anthony Paolone, JPMorgan.

Anthony Paolone，摩根大通。

Thanks. Good morning and nice quarter. Just have a question as we start to look to the rest of the year and just the strength that you had in 3Q. Do you feel like anything got pulled forward from the fourth quarter, or perhaps how we should think about like when or in what business lines do comps start to get more challenging or start to normalize from these pretty high levels of growth?

謝謝。早上好，祝你今天愉快。展望今年剩餘的賽季，我有一個問題，特別是考慮到你們在第三季的強勁表現。你覺得第四季有哪些因素提前顯現出來了？或者我們該如何思考，例如在哪些業務領域，同店銷售額何時會開始面臨更大的挑戰，或是從目前的高成長水準開始回歸正常？

So, Tony, we haven't seen a significant pull forward across our segments. We are seeing strong momentum. But as you noted, we are starting to come up against some tough comps. So going through each segment, starting with Advisory.

所以，東尼，我們還沒有看到各個業務板塊出現明顯的成長。我們看到了強勁的發展勢頭。但正如你所指出的，我們開始遇到一些強大的對手。因此，我們將逐一介紹每個部分，首先從諮詢服務部分開始。

On the leasing front, we are -- we had a tough comp in Q3, and that continues in Q4. On the sales front that you've seen that pick up pretty significantly in the third quarter going into the fourth quarter, we continue to see strong activity, but just minor looking against 2024, Q3 sales growth was 14% and Q4 sales growth was 35%.

在租賃方面，我們第三季面臨嚴峻的業績比較，而第四季的情況依然如此。銷售方面，正如你所看到的，第三季到第四季出現了相當大的成長，我們繼續看到強勁的銷售活動，但與 2024 年相比，成長幅度較小。第三季銷售成長率為 14%，第四季銷售成長率為 35%。

So that growth rate is going to start to decelerate somewhat into Q4. And then on the Project Management front, I do want to note that we have a very tough compare in the fourth quarter. In the prior year, our SOP growth grew 30% in the fourth quarter.

因此，這種成長速度將在第四季開始有所放緩。在專案管理方面，我想指出的是，第四季我們將面臨非常嚴峻的比較情勢。上年同期，我們的SOP在第四季成長了30%。

Okay, thank you for that. Okay. And then just my follow-up. Can you maybe comment on the M&A pipeline, especially given the free cash flow? And also whether that had any impact on not buying back stock in the quarter? Thanks.

好的，謝謝。好的。然後是我的後續發言。您能否就併購專案進度發表一下看法，特別是考慮到自由現金流的情況？這是否對本季未回購股票產生了任何影響？謝謝。

So Anthony, our capital allocation priorities remain as they've always been. We prioritize M&A and co-investment into REI, and we use the remainder of the free cash flow that we generate for share repurchases. We do continue to believe that our share price is undervalued, and we'll buy back shares in the absence of M&A.

所以安東尼，我們的資本配置優先事項仍然和以往一樣。我們優先考慮併購和對房地產投資的共同投資，並將剩餘的自由現金流用於股票回購。我們仍然認為我們的股價被低估了，如果沒有併購，我們將回購股票。

As you know, I can't comment on particulars of what we're targeting, but we continue to focus on the areas of our business that are resilient, that can benefit from secular tailwinds, and we're looking for targets that are extremely well operated that can really benefit from being a part of the CBRE platform.

如您所知，我無法評論我們具體的目標，但我們會繼續專注於我們業務中具有韌性、能夠受益於長期發展趨勢的領域，我們正在尋找運營非常出色、能夠真正受益於加入世邦魏理仕平台的目標公司。

We're extremely patient to find the right deals. We're actively advancing our M&A approach, improving our integration, improving our identification of new deals. And we're very confident that we will find the right targets over time.

我們非常有耐心去尋找合適的交易。我們正積極推動併購策略，改善整合方式，提高發現新交易的能力。我們非常有信心，假以時日，一定能找到適合的目標。

Okay. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

Thank you. Julien Blouin, Goldman Sachs.

謝謝。Julien Blouin，高盛集團。

Yeah, thank you for the question, and congratulations on the quarter. Bob, I wanted to ask you, Advisory sales results were very impressive again this quarter. But just taking a step back, there appears to still be this latent need to transact from both older vintage real estate funds that need to return capital to investors to start their next fundraising cycles, and then more recent vintages are still sitting on a lot of dry powder. So I guess taking stock of all that versus what's sort of happening in the macro, where are we in the CRE transaction market recovery? And how much more room is there to run?

是的，謝謝你的提問，也恭喜你本季業績優異。鮑勃，我想問一下，本季諮詢業務的銷售業績再次非常出色。但退一步來看，似乎仍然存在這種潛在的交易需求：一方面是需要向投資者返還資金以開始下一輪籌款週期的較老的房地產基金，另一方面是仍然有很多閒置資金的較新的基金。所以，我想綜合考慮所有這些因素以及宏觀經濟形勢，我們目前在商業地產交易市場復甦方面處於什麼階段？還有多大的發展空間？

Well, we think about that a lot, as you would expect, Julien. And I think in general, we would say that we expect a longer slower recovery in the sales part of our business than we've seen historically. And we're early into that recovery. We expect it to run for some time. Obviously, when -- I mean, September when interest rates tick down, sales activity picked up.

嗯，正如你所料，朱利安，我們經常考慮這個問題。總的來說，我認為我們預計公司銷售業務的復甦速度和持續時間將比以往更長。我們目前還處於復甦的早期階段。我們預計它會持續運行一段時間。顯然，到了九月份，當利率下降時，銷售活動就會回升。

But we do have strong pipelines. There people talk about pent up demand. There's pent up demand on both sides. There's pent up demand from buyers. You mentioned the capital stores that the real estate investors have, and there's a lot of owners of assets that are ready to sell the assets.

但我們的確擁有強大的輸電線路。那裡的人們都在談論被壓抑的需求。雙方都有被壓抑的需求。買家需求積壓已久。你提到了房地產投資者擁有的資本儲備，而且有很多資產所有者準備出售他們的資產。

And the gap between buy-sell expectations has closed pretty significantly. So we expect a nice, strong, steady recovery investment sales over the next couple of years. Obviously, if something happens in the micro -- macro economy that would interrupt that in one direction or another, it could change our expectations. But that's where we are right now.

買賣雙方的預期差距已經顯著縮小。因此，我們預計未來幾年投資銷售額將出現良好、強勁、穩定的復甦。顯然，如果微觀經濟或宏觀經濟中發生某些事情，從而對這種趨勢產生某種方向的干擾，那麼我們的預期可能會改變。但這就是我們目前的處境。

Okay, thank you. And Emma, maybe following on from Tony's question. Turning to the fourth quarter, as you mentioned, there's tougher year-over-year comps. But I guess, how would you describe the deal activity so far in the fourth quarter?

好的，謝謝。艾瑪，或許是在回應托尼的問題。到了第四季度，正如您所提到的，同比數據會更加難以比較。但我想問的是，您會如何描述第四季迄今的交易活動？

How do pipelines compared to this time last year? And then also, if I could take another one on the Advisory segment. It looked like maybe the incremental margins this quarter were a little bit lower. Is there something happening maybe on the hiring side?

與去年同期相比，管道狀況如何？另外，如果我可以再參加一次諮商環節就更好了。看起來本季的增量利潤率可能略低一些。招募方面是不是有什麼新動向？

So to take your first question, pipelines are strong. We're continuing to see strong activity in the beginning of the fourth quarter through October, both on the leasing and sales side. I do want to say that we provided a guidance range up to [$6.35], and that largely incorporates the flow-through from outperformance in the third quarter.

所以回答你的第一個問題，管道系統很強。從第四季初到10月份，租賃和銷售方面都持續保持強勁的成長動能。我想說的是，我們給出的預期範圍最高為 6.35 美元，這主要包含了第三季業績超預期帶來的收益。

But if everything goes as we're expecting, if transaction activity continues as we're seeing right now and as we expect -- and at these development side, that we have a high confidence we'll monetize this year to turn out, we will be at the high end of our EPS range.

但如果一切都如我們所預期的那樣發展，如果交易活動繼續像我們現在看到的那樣，並且如我們所預期的那樣進行——而且在這些開發方面，我們非常有信心今年能夠實現盈利，那麼我們的每股收益將達到預期範圍的高端。

On the margin side within Advisory, our incrementals were a little over 25% this quarter, which is lower than what we've seen earlier in the year, and the major impact there was an increase in incentive comp because of the performance of the overall segment in business.

在諮詢業務的利潤率方面，本季度我們的增量略高於 25%，低於今年早些時候的水平，主要影響因素是由於該業務板塊整體業績不佳而導致的激勵薪酬增加。

Okay. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

Thank you. Ronald Kamdem, Morgan Stanley.

謝謝。羅納德‧卡姆登，摩根士丹利。

Hey, Just sticking with the Advisory segment a little bit, clearly, where the outperformance came this quarter. Maybe can you talk a little bit just about sort of the talent in terms of people? Does this -- are you appropriately staffed? Do you want to hire more people? What's competition like? Just sort of color on how you're thinking about this gradual recovery and your position? Thanks.

嘿，我們還是稍微關註一下諮詢業務板塊吧，很明顯，本季業績表現優異的就是這個板塊。能否稍微談談人才方面的問題？這樣看來──你們人員配備是否充足？你們想招更多人嗎？競爭情況如何？請您簡單談談您對這種逐步復甦的看法以及您的立場？謝謝。

Well, again, something we focus on all the time. And I would say we are appropriately staffed, but we're also adding where we find the right talent. We've got capacity in our leasing brokerage team to do more, and we've got considerable capacity in both our sales team and our mortgage origination teams.

嗯，這正是我們一直在關注的重點。我認為我們目前的人員配備充足，但我們也會在發現合適人才的地方繼續擴充人員。我們的租賃經紀團隊有能力做更多的事情，我們的銷售團隊和抵押貸款發放團隊也都有相當大的能力。

We have had a really good run with talent across our brokerage business, but in particular, in the leasing business. And when you look at -- and we've taken considerable market share over the last couple of years and improved our leasing product. And what's gone on there is we've, around the world, made significant upgrades to our local leasing leadership teams.

我們在經紀業務方面，尤其是在租賃業務方面，人才儲備非常充足。而且，在過去的幾年裡，我們已經獲得了相當大的市場份額，並且改進了我們的租賃產品。目前的情況是，我們在世界各地對本地租賃領導團隊進行了重大升級。

We have a managed brokerage platform that we use that's supported by a technology tool that helps us identify where in the market we have holes in our coverage, and we aggressively try to close those holes. We also use it to manage our interface with our clients.

我們使用一個託管經紀平台，該平台由一個技術工具支持，該工具可以幫助我們識別市場中我們覆蓋範圍的漏洞，我們會積極努力彌補這些漏洞。我們也用它來管理與客戶的溝通介面。

The tools we support our leasing business with the technology tools, the data we support our leasing business with, the research we support our leasing business with the advisory tools like workplace design, labor analytics have allowed us to move ahead in that business, not only in landing new business but in landing new talent and retaining the talent we have.

我們利用技術工具、數據和研究來支援租賃業務，並藉助工作場所設計、勞動力分析等諮詢工具來支援租賃業務，這些工具使我們能夠在該業務中取得進步，不僅獲得了新業務，還獲得了新人才並留住了我們現有的人才。

So we're in a really good place with our brokerage talent. We've made some significant within that staff but we're also looking to add talent because as we've already talked about on this call and in our prepared remarks, the market is strong and our pipelines are strong, and we are expecting growth.

所以，我們在經紀人人才方面處於非常有利的地位。我們在現有員工中取得了一些顯著的進步，但我們也希望增加人才，因為正如我們在這次電話會議和準備好的發言稿中已經談到的那樣，市場強勁，我們的項目儲備也很充足，我們預計會實現增長。

Helpful. My second -- my follow-up, I guess, would be just going back to the Project Management business. I think we noticed you didn't break out Turner & Townsend versus the legacy. Just any comments there? And then if you could just update us on the thoughts on the margin opportunity sort of near and long term, that would be helpful. Thanks.

很有幫助。我的第二個——或者說我的後續計劃，我想，就是重返專案管理行業。我想我們注意到你沒有單獨列出 Turner & Townsend 與傳統音樂的對比。大家有什麼看法嗎？如果您能就近期和長期的利潤機會向我們更新您的看法，那就太好了。謝謝。

Well, the reason not to break it out is because we're now well into that integration and the operating model that supports that business has been pretty much integrated around the world. And not surprisingly, the operating model we're using is the Turner & Townsend model, which we think is the industry's best, a big part of the reason why we made that deal in the first place.

之所以不將其拆分出來，是因為我們現在已經深入整合，支援該業務的營運模式在全球範圍內已基本整合完畢。不出所料，我們採用的是 Turner & Townsend 的營運模式，我們認為這是業界最好的模式，這也是我們當初達成這筆交易的主要原因之一。

Now we're starting to move on to integrating the financial platform around the world, integrating human resources platform, as we call, the people platform around the world, et cetera, technology platform. That's an area where we'll use the CBRE platform. And so, we expect that part of the integration to yield some cost synergies for us next year.

現在我們開始著手整合全球金融平台、整合全球人力資源平台（我們稱之為「人才平台」）、以及科技平台等等。在這一領域，我們將使用世邦魏理仕的平台。因此，我們預計明年這部分整合將為我們帶來一些成本綜效。

I will say, and I've personally been involved in the interface with our clients in a number of areas, the market's recognition of those two businesses coming together and the new capability we have is starting to become pretty noticeable, and it's showing up in our new business wins.

我想說，我自己也參與了與客戶在多個領域的溝通，市場對這兩家企業合併以及我們所擁有的新能力的認可度正在逐漸提高，這體現在我們贏得的新業務上。

And an area where it's particularly showing up in is clients we already had that gave us a certain type of project that are now giving us bigger, more complex projects and giving us cost consultancy work because of this combined capability. But all of that leads us to now look at that business as one integrated business going forward.

尤其值得注意的是，我們之前的一些客戶，他們之前給我們某種類型的項目，現在因為這種綜合能力，他們給我們提供了更大、更複雜的項目，以及成本諮詢工作。但所有這些都促使我們現在將該業務視為整體業務來展望未來。

Helpful. Thank you.

很有幫助。謝謝。

Thank you. (Operator Instructions) Stephen Sheldon, William Blair.

謝謝。（操作說明）史蒂芬·謝爾頓，威廉·布萊爾。

Hey, good morning. Thanks. Just starting on data center monetization, sounds like you're seeing strength in that class across a lot of different service lines. So just as we think about the next two to three years, where do you see the biggest avenues for CBRE to grow supporting data centers and should investors be expecting monetization around data centers to continue becoming a bigger part of the overall business mix versus the 10% of EBITDA that you called out this quarter?

嘿，早安。謝謝。剛開始涉足資料中心貨幣化領域，聽起來你們在許多不同的服務領域都看到了這種趨勢。展望未來兩到三年，您認為世邦魏理仕在支援資料中心方面最大的成長途徑是什麼？投資者是否應該預期資料中心相關的獲利能力將繼續在整體業務組合中佔據更大的比例，而不是像您本季提到的 EBITDA 的 10%？

Well, Stephen, we expect data centers to be around 10% of our earnings this year and more next year. And it's really important to know what's going on. There is this big bump-up in activity right now, and we're enjoying the benefits of that.

史蒂芬，我們預計資料中心業務今年將占我們收入的 10% 左右，明年還會更多。了解正在發生的事情非常重要。目前業務活動大幅增加，我們正在享受由此帶來的好處。

I'm sure everybody that's in the real estate business or the data center services business that reports earnings is going to comment on that very favorably. But in addition to enjoying the benefit of the current pop in activity, we are building businesses that we believe will be sustainable as the cycle with data centers unfold. And inevitably, it's going to be a big build cycle over the next five years, maybe longer, and then beyond that, it's going to be a big operate cycle.

我相信所有從事房地產或資料中心服務業並公佈財報的公司都會對此給予非常正面的評價。除了享受當前市場活躍度提升帶來的好處之外，我們還在建立我們認為隨著資料中心週期展開而可持續發展的業務。不可避免地，未來五年甚至更長時間將是一個大型建設週期，之後將是一個大型營運週期。

We don't, except in an indirect way through our investment management business, we don't invest in a big way in the ownership of data centers. We do have significant land investments within Trammell Crow Company.

除了透過我們的投資管理業務間接投資外，我們不直接大規模投資資料中心的所有權。我們在特拉梅爾·克羅公司擁有大量土地投資。

Trammell Crow Companies real strength and has been for years is they're phenomenal at identifying, acquiring, entitling and improving land sites, and they've turned their energies in a significant way to data center land sites, and we expect to see significant monetizations that will be at the front end of that cycle as the build part of that cycle. Turner & Townsend does a lot of project management work, cost consultancy for data centers.

Trammell Crow Companies 的真正優勢在於，多年來他們非常擅長識別、收購、獲得許可和改善土地，他們已將大量精力投入到資料中心用地，我們預計在這一周期的早期建設階段，將會看到顯著的盈利。Turner & Townsend 公司從事大量的專案管理工作，並為資料中心提供成本諮詢服務。

That will extend on for years. And as data centers then go into a redevelopment phase, upgrade phase, et cetera, that project and program and cost consultancy work will continue on. So that's a big, enduring opportunity.

這種情況將持續數年。隨著資料中心進入重建階段、升級階段等，該專案、計劃和成本諮詢工作將繼續進行。所以這是一個巨大而持久的機會。

We have a very large data center brokerage business in our advisory business, and we finance them, we sell them, we lease them. We've coordinated our -- we've put the Chief Operating Officer of our Advisory business over that effort to coordinate it, and we see that as an enduring business. And then within our BOE segment, we have two lines of business that we're bringing together. One is the management of data centers. And we've talked about that, we manage something like 800 data centers on an ongoing basis.

我們的諮詢業務包含規模非常大的資料中心經紀業務，我們為資料中心提供融資、銷售和租賃服務。我們已經協調了我們的——我們安排了諮詢業務的首席營運官負責協調這項工作，我們認為這是一項持久的業務。然後，在我們的BOE業務板塊中，我們將兩條業務線整合在一起。其中之一是資料中心的管理。我們也討論過這個問題，我們目前管理著大約 800 個資料中心。

And then the small project improvement work in data centers inside the white space with the business we acquired called Direct Line, we're merging those two and forming a digital infrastructure services line of business that will carry separately within BOE.

然後，我們將收購的名為 Direct Line 的業務在資料中心內部的小型專案改善工作合併，形成一個數位基礎設施服務業務線，該業務線將在 BOE 內部獨立運作。

And that business is particularly well suited to perform well, not only now as data centers are being built, but we think that the actual operation of data centers and refit of data centers as that life cycle evolves will really play to that business.

而且，這項業務尤其適合發展良好，不僅因為現在正在建造資料中心，而且我們認為，隨著資料中心生命週期的演變，資料中心的實際營運和改造也將真正對這項業務產生影響。

So we're enjoying the benefit of the big pop that's going on in the short run, but we're building businesses, similar to the strategy we've had with our other resilient businesses, that we think will endure well into the future in data centers.

因此，我們正在享受短期內價格大幅上漲的好處，但我們正在打造類似於我們其他具有韌性的業務策略的業務，我們認為這些業務將在資料中心領域長期存在下去。

Got it. Yeah, very helpful context. It seems like there's a lot to be excited about there. Maybe as a follow-up, just as you think about CBRE's relationship with occupiers, I think you've been talking more about how you can create better touch points with them and hopefully drive more wallet share gains over time. So any update on what you're doing there and the time line, if some of these things work, the time line to potentially see wallet share gains, would large occupier prior clients pick up even more?

知道了。是的，這很有幫助。那裡似乎有很多令人興奮的事情。或許可以接著問，就像您思考世邦魏理仕與租戶的關係一樣，我認為您一直在談論如何與他們建立更好的聯繫，並希望隨著時間的推移，能夠提高租戶的錢包份額。那麼，關於你們在那裡所做的事情以及時間表，有什麼最新進展嗎？如果其中一些措施奏效，預計何時能夠看到市場份額的成長？大型租戶之前的客戶是否會獲得更多份額？

Our relationship with occupiers is evolving pretty rapidly right now and our view as to how we serve the big occupiers has evolved. A big part of that is driven by our acquisition of Turner & Townsend and our acquisition of Industrious.

我們與租戶的關係目前發展迅速，我們對如何服務大型租戶的看法也隨之改變。其中很大一部分原因是我們收購了 Turner & Townsend 和 Industrious。

And when you look at what we provide to big occupiers, we provide things for them across all four segments. So obviously, in BOE, we provide facilities management. And obviously, in the Turner & Townsend or the Project Management segment, we provide program management, project management, cost consultancy.

當你審視我們為大型租戶提供的服務時，你會發現我們為他們提供了涵蓋所有四個細分市場的服務。很顯然，在BOE，我們提供設施管理服務。顯然，在 Turner & Townsend 或專案管理領域，我們提供專案管理、專案管理和成本諮詢服務。

So you look at where those two businesses are today where they were historically, we went out and spent the better part of $1 billion to buy an experience business, Industrious. We now have that as part of our facilities management as part of that, part of our occupier offering, and it doesn't exist elsewhere in our segment, and it is proving to be a real advantage as we go to market in that business.

所以，看看這兩家公司現在的狀況，再看看它們的歷史，我們花了將近 10 億美元收購了一家體驗型企業 Industrious。現在，我們已將其納入我們的設施管理服務，作為我們為租戶提供的服務的一部分，而這在我們所在的細分市場中並不存在，事實證明，當我們進入該業務市場時，這是一個真正的優勢。

We now have a project management capability and a cost consultancy capability to do a different kind of project work than we or others in our sector were able to do previously, and that is appealing to our clients. In our brokerage business, we've talked already today about the gains we've made in leasing. Leasing is a huge business for us. Leasing is a very, very important part of what we do for occupiers. That business has pulled away from where it's been historically.

我們現在具備了專案管理能力和成本諮詢能力，可以進行與我們或我們行業內的其他公司以前無法進行的專案工作類型不同的專案工作，這對我們的客戶很有吸引力。在我們的經紀業務中，我們今天已經談到了我們在租賃方面取得的進展。租賃業務對我們來說非常重要。租賃是我們為租戶提供的服務中非常非常重要的一部分。該業務已經偏離了其歷史上的發展軌跡。

And then in our development business, in Trammell Crow Company, we have something that's important to the occupiers that doesn't exist in a significant way elsewhere in the segment, and that is our build-to-suit capability.

然後，在我們的開發業務中，在 Trammell Crow 公司，我們擁有對租戶來說非常重要的東西，而這在業內其他地方並不普遍存在，那就是我們的客製化建造能力。

And we do a lot of build-to-suit work for big occupiers around the world, particularly here in the US, but some around the world. And what we've decided to do in that business is to go clients and say we can offer any one of these four things to you in a way that we think is unique and advantages you. And if you want to buy them that way, we'll sell them to you that way.

我們為世界各地的大型租戶做了很多客製化建造工作，尤其是在美國，但也有其他一些地方。我們決定在這個行業中這樣做：去拜訪客戶，告訴他們我們可以以我們認為獨特且對您有利的方式向您提供這四件事中的任何一件。如果您想以這種方式購買，我們就會以這種方式賣給您。

And if you enjoy the benefits of what we sell you because it's better than you can get elsewhere, we know you're going to buy the other stuff. And we've learned a lot of these clients like to buy that way. They want to just buy facilities management or project management or build-to-suit services.

如果您喜歡我們銷售的產品，因為它比您在其他地方買到的產品更好，我們知道您肯定會購買其他產品。我們發現很多客戶都喜歡用這種方式購買。他們只想購買設施管理、專案管理或客製化建造服務。

But the cross sell that comes is when they're satisfied with each of those things they're more likely to buy the others. And then in certain cases we will have clients who've had some recent experience. It's been very compelling that'll say what, we want to buy some of this on a bundled basis, and that's how we're thinking about that today.

但交叉銷售的原理是，當他們對每件商品都感到滿意時，他們更有可能購買其他商品。然後，在某些情況下，我們會遇到一些近期有類似經驗的客戶。這一點非常有說服力，也就是說，我們想以捆綁銷售的方式購買其中一些產品，這就是我們今天考慮的方式。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

Thank you. Alex Kramm, UBS.

謝謝。Alex Kramm，瑞銀集團。

Yes, not sure if this is on the same topic. But maybe can you just talk about your BOE outlook and pipelines a little bit more. I know earlier this year with all the tariffs, et cetera, I think there was maybe some uncertainty and maybe things took a little bit longer. So just wondering how pipelines have trended and if you think things have generally normalized on the BOE side?

是的，我不確定這是否屬於同一個主題。不過，您能否再多談談您的油氣前景和管線建設情況？我知道今年早些時候由於各種關稅等等原因，可能存在一些不確定性，事情進展也可能稍微慢了一些。所以，我想知道管道運輸的趨勢如何，以及您認為BOE方面的情況是否總體上已經恢復正常？

Yes, that's -- I'd say normalized and improved even beyond that. So our -- within our BOE segment, especially within enterprise, our pipelines are very strong and we're expecting to have a Q4 volume of sales that is at a significantly elevated level.

是的，我認為已經正常化，甚至還有改進。因此，在我們的BOE業務板塊，尤其是在企業級市場，我們的銷售管道非常強勁，我們預計第四季度的銷售額將顯著提高。

As you mentioned, Alex, there is a decent lead time between a sale and when that shows up in our revenue when that contract is converted because these are very large contracts. And so that elevated volume of sales should start to show up in our BOE revenue in towards the second half of next year.

正如你所說，Alex，從銷售到合約轉換併計入收入之間有相當長的準備時間，因為這些都是非常大的合約。因此，銷售量的成長應該會在明年下半年開始反映在我們的 BOE 收入中。

All right. And then a very quick follow-up on the data center divestment, I don't think you sized that, can you just -- the one that potentially is going to slip into 2026, what -- how should we think about the EPS impact if it comes through or not?

好的。然後，關於資料中心剝離，我想快速跟進。我認為您沒有對此進行規模評估，您能簡單說一下嗎？這項剝離可能會推遲到 2026 年，如果它最終實施或不實施，我們應該如何看待其對每股盈餘的影響？

So think about the range of outcomes for EPS that -- we've cited the $6.25 to $6.35 the bottom and top end of that range is really dependent on the development monetization.

因此，請考慮 EPS 的結果範圍——我們已經提到 6.25 美元到 6.35 美元，該範圍的下限和上限實際上取決於開發貨幣化。

Helpful. Thank you.

很有幫助。謝謝。

Thank you. Steve Sakwa, Evercore ISI.

謝謝。Steve Sakwa，Evercore ISI。

Yeah. Thanks. And I just want to maybe go back on the buyback. I just -- I'm trying to understand if maybe there were some deal activity that was maybe being kicked around internally that, I guess, precluded you from buying back stock in the third quarter or that was more of an active decision kind of not to buy back stock in the third quarter?

是的。謝謝。我只是想重新考慮回購方案。我只是想了解一下，是否公司內部有一些交易活動正在進行，導致你們在第三季無法回購股票，或者說，你們主動決定不在第三季回購股票？

I will say it was not an active decision not to buy back stock. We feel, as we've always said, we feel that our share price is undervalued. We continue to believe that it's undervalued. And so, when we have cash flow available in our projections, it's available, we will be buying back shares. But as you know, it's difficult to talk about our M&A pipeline or our activity there until we get something done.

我要說明的是，不回購股票並不是主動做出的決定。我們一直都認為，正如我們之前所說，我們的股價被低估了。我們仍然認為它被低估了。因此，當我們的預測中出現可用現金流時，我們將回購股票。但如您所知，在我們取得實質進展之前，很難談論我們的併購計劃或相關活動。

No, understood. Thank you. And then, Bob, I guess, a question that we get a lot is around the facilities management business, and I guess, maybe the ultimate TAM of that business, and I realize, depending on how you size it up, it's a couple of billion dollar business. But how do you think about the ultimate TAM of facilities management or how do you think about your market share in that business globally?

不，明白了。謝謝。然後，鮑勃，我想，我們經常被問到的一個問題是關於設施管理業務的，我想，也許這個業務的最終市場規模是多少，我意識到，根據你如何衡量，這是一個價值數十億美元的業務。但您如何看待設施管理的最終總市場規模（TAM）？或者您如何看待您在全球該業務中的市場份額？

Well, Steve, we've forever tried to measure that TAM, and you can get some pretty crazy large numbers. What I will say is we've consistently expanded our TAM. So the work we do with data centers definitively has expanded the TAM. We operate a lot of data centers and we're positioned to operate more and that's a growing asset class.

史蒂夫，我們一直試圖衡量TAM（潛在市場規模），結果可以得到一些非常驚人的數字。我想說的是，我們一直在不斷擴大我們的潛在市場規模。因此，我們在資料中心領域所做的工作無疑擴大了潛在市場規模 (TAM)。我們經營許多資料中心，並且有能力營運更多資料中心，而資料中心是一個不斷增長的資產類別。

The J&J acquisition, which moved us into government work in a bigger way in the hospitals expanded our TAM. And of course, that dimension is very, very large, potentially. The Direct Line acquisition, where we do work inside the white space and data centers expanded our TAM. The -- so right on down the line, the things we've done in that business have expanded our TAM.

強生公司的收購使我們以更大的方式進入了政府醫院業務，擴大了我們的目標市場。當然，這個維度可能非常非常大。收購 Direct Line 後，我們在空白領域和資料中心開展業務，擴大了我們的潛在市場規模。因此，我們在這個業務領域所做的一切，都擴大了我們的潛在市場規模。

And each one of these, depending on how you measure it, could have a huge impact. That's one of the things that has made us increasingly optimistic about our ability to grow CBRE is, A, we've expanded our TAM in a way that we think is pretty hard for others to do.

而這些因素，根據衡量方式的不同，都可能產生巨大的影響。正是這一點讓我們對 CBRE 的發展能力越來越樂觀：A，我們擴大了 TAM，我們認為這是其他人很難做到的。

And B, we've grown into that space as we've expanded it. So I would tell you that we've done all kinds of work with our strategy group in-house. We've done a bunch of work with very, very top strategy people outside. And there's not a single view of that would suggest we're anywhere near bumping up against our total addressable market. And we believe we can continue to expand that market.

而且，隨著業務的拓展，我們也逐漸適應了那個領域。所以我可以告訴你，我們公司內部的策略團隊已經做了很多工作。我們與外部一些非常頂尖的策略專家進行了大量的合作。而且沒有任何觀點顯示我們已經接近潛在市場的極限。我們相信我們可以繼續擴大這個市場。

Great, thank you. That's it.

太好了，謝謝。就是這樣。

Thank you. Seth Bergey, Citi.

謝謝。Seth Bergey，花旗集團。

Hi, I guess my first one is back on the data center development side. Do those have access to power, or is that kind of a constraint there?

嗨，我想我的第一個問題還是出在資料中心開發方面。他們是否能夠獲得權力，還是說這方面有某種限制？

Well, that is without a doubt the constraints at the -- and it's become more of a constraint. It's a constraint for anybody that's doing land work in data centers. It's a constraint for the co-locators. It's a constraint for the hyperscalers as they try to expand.

毫無疑問，這就是目前的限制——而且這種限制變得越來越嚴重了。對於任何在資料中心進行土地作業的人來說，這都是一個限制因素。這是對共址運營商的一個限制。對於試圖擴張的超大規模資料中心而言，這是一個限制。

And what we do is we put ourselves in a position by acquiring land or securing control over land, getting entitlements to that land, making sure improvements to that land, and putting that land in a position where the ultimate users of the land who are often hyperscalers are well positioned to work with the utility authorities to gain power. And that's really how our strategy in that part of the business works, and it tends to work well, but it's very competitive to get power.

我們所做的，是透過收購土地或取得土地控制權，獲得土地使用權，確保土地得到改善，並使土地的最終用戶（通常是超大規模企業）能夠與公用事業部門合作，從而獲得權力。這就是我們在該業務領域採取的策略，而且往往效果不錯，但要獲得權力競爭非常激烈。

Thanks. And then I guess my second one is just back to the leasing. Is the -- specifically for office, is that -- are you seeing broad base kind of activity there? Or is that concentrated in more gateway cities or different classes of office there? Or any color you can add on the pipelines you're seeing there would be helpful.

謝謝。然後我想我的第二個選擇就是回到租賃業。具體到辦公室，你看到的是那種廣泛的活動嗎？或者說，這種情況主要集中在門戶城市或那裡不同類型的辦公室？或者，如果您能為您看到的管道添加任何顏色，那將很有幫助。

Well, it is broad-based, but it hasn't been the same every quarter. So last quarter, we talked about secondary and tertiary markets being relatively strong compared to the gateway markets. We were a little surprised by that.

嗯，它的影響範圍很廣，但每季情況都不一樣。所以上個季度，我們討論了二級和三級市場相對於門戶市場而言表現相對強勁。我們對此感到有些意外。

And I got a question or we got a question at the beginning call about what we were surprised by. But the -- I think what we were surprised by in the third quarter was the resurgence on a relative basis of the gateway markets.

在通話開始時，有人問我們一個問題，那就是我們感到驚訝的是什麼。但我認為第三季讓我們感到驚訝的是門戶市場的相對復甦。

They were really strong. New York, in particular, San Francisco, in particular. But if you look over the course of the last 12 months and you look at our pipelines, I think our expectation -- it's fair to say our expectation is you're going to see broad-based growth in office building leasing and we don't believe we're borrowing from the future. What we believe is, there's a lot of different ways to look at it. People still talk about return to the office.

他們實力很強。尤其是紐約，尤其是舊金山。但如果你回顧過去 12 個月，看看我們的專案儲備，我認為我們的預期——可以公平地說，我們的預期是辦公大樓租賃將出現全面增長，而且我們認為我們並沒有透支未來。我們認為，看待這個問題有很多不同的角度。人們仍在討論重返辦公室的問題。

We don't really talk about it that way. I think what I would say is it's more of a return to the mean, number one. In other words, COVID is so far in the rearview mirror, all the arguments pro and con on office space have kind of disappeared and people are thinking about it more like they thought about it before.

我們其實不那樣談論這件事。我認為，首先，這更像是回歸平均值。換句話說，新冠疫情已經成為過去，關於辦公空間的各種利弊爭論都消失了，人們又開始像以前那樣思考這個問題了。

But secondly -- and this is true of real estate in general, which is another reason why we're so excited about our opportunity, real estate facilities have become much more critical to companies than they used to be. And I spend so much time with occupiers, they're all talking about the importance of their real estate to their cultures, to their -- the way their people work together, to their productivity. That is a very big theme out there today.

但其次——這一點在房地產領域普遍適用，這也是我們對此機會感到如此興奮的另一個原因——房地產設施對公司來說已經變得比過去更加重要。我花了很多時間和租戶們在一起，他們都在談論他們的房地產對他們的文化、對他們的員工合作方式以及對他們的生產力的重要性。這是當今社會的熱門話題。

If you go out and look at our warehouse business, our distribution center business, it is so much more strategic to our clients than it ever was historically. I started leasing warehouses, they were just big shell buildings, not nearly as big as they are now.

如果你去了解我們的倉儲業務、我們的配送中心業務，你會發現它對我們的客戶來說比以往任何時候都更具戰略意義。我最初租用倉庫的時候，它們只是大型的毛坯建築，遠沒有現在這麼大。

But they are just big shell buildings and people stored stuff. And you go into those buildings now, they've got thousands of robots in them and they've got miles and miles of conveyor systems. So the buildings are very technical. And they're core to what those companies do to serve their clients, they're strategic.

但它們只是大型的空殼建築，人們用來存放東西。你現在走進那些建築物，裡面有成千上萬的機器人，還有綿延數英里的傳送系統。所以這些建築技術含量很高。它們是這些公司服務客戶的核心，具有戰略意義。

So real estate has become a much more -- obviously, data centers, it's not even worth talking about, that's become so obvious. Real estate has become a much more strategic asset class than it used to be, and that's true of office buildings, just like it is other aspects of commercial real estate.

所以房地產變得更加——顯然，數據中心，這甚至不值得一提，這已經變得如此顯而易見。房地產已成為比以往更具戰略意義的資產類別，辦公大樓是如此，商業房地產的其他方面也是如此。

Great. Thanks.

偉大的。謝謝。

Thank you. Jade Rahmani, KBW.

謝謝。Jade Rahmani，KBW。

Thank you very much. To follow up on office. Can you talk about the strength in the sector in the US and if you're seeing the recovery being driven by Class A and Class A plus premier workspaces plus new development that has robust leasing or if you believe it's becoming more widespread and that below Class A, Class B such assets in secondary submarkets is the next leg of growth that you see coming?

非常感謝。跟進辦公室事宜。您能否談談美國該行業的強勁勢頭，以及您認為復甦是由A級和A+級優質辦公空間以及租賃情況良好的新開發項目推動的，還是您認為復甦正在變得更加普遍，A級以下、B級等位於二級細分市場的資產才是您認為即將到來的下一個增長點？

Well, what's going on, Jade, is kind of what we thought might go on a year ago. So when the very best main and main buildings get filled up and there's still demand for really high-quality space, then you see people starting to convert buildings that are of lesser quality to a higher quality. That's really happening here in Manhattan. The demand has clearly moved into secondary and tertiary markets where there are a lot of good buildings available, or at least were available. They're quickly going.

傑德，現在的情況跟我們一年前預想的差不多。所以，當最好的主要建築都被佔滿，而對真正高品質的空間仍然有需求時，你會看到人們開始將品質較差的建築改造成更高品質的空間。這事兒確實正在曼哈頓發生。需求顯然已經轉移到二級和三級市場，這些市場有許多優質建築可供選擇，或至少曾經有很多。它們走得很快。

And you are starting to see new development now, and I'll give you a perfect example, from our own business, too. So for years and years and years, we've had one of the very best office site in Uptown Dallas and you can develop between 0.5 million and 0.75 million square feet of space on that side. And we've been sitting on that site. We own it on our balance sheet. We're not in a hurry to do anything with it.

現在您開始看到新的發展，我舉一個我們自己公司就是一個很好的例子。所以多年來，我們在達拉斯市中心擁有最好的辦公用地之一，你可以在那一側開發 50 萬到 75 萬平方英尺的空間。我們一直在關注那個網站。我們資產負債表上有這項資產。我們並不急於對它採取任何行動。

And we now have a couple of large users, high credit users, that are very interested in that site. Pretty good odds we'll go ahead and kick that site off and bring 500,000, 600,000 square feet of new prime Class A space into the market.

我們現在有幾位大用戶，信用等級很高的用戶，他們對這個網站非常感興趣。我們很有可能會啟動該項目，並將 50 萬至 60 萬平方英尺的全新優質 A 級辦公空間推向市場。

And we're not the only ones doing that. Three years ago, if we were having this conversation or four years ago, that wouldn't be part of the conversation. But it is now. And if you look here in New York, some of the prominent developers are either -- have either announced new things will be in that, we're confident what we know enough about sites that they will be announcing. And again, that's going on in markets around the country. So it's spread. It's spreading from Class A buildings to lower class buildings that are being upgraded, starting to see new development, and it's a very real trend.

而且我們並不是唯一這樣做的人。三年前，或者四年前，如果我們進行這場對話，那還不是對話的一部分。但現在情況不同了。如果你看看紐約，一些知名開發商要么已經宣布了新的項目，要么已經宣布了新的項目，我們對他們即將宣布的項目有足夠的了解，對此我們很有信心。而且，這種情況在全國各地的市場都在發生。所以它傳播開了。這種趨勢正從甲級辦公室蔓延到正在進行升級改造的低級辦公大樓，並開始出現新的開發項目，這確實是一個非常真實的趨勢。

And then on the industrial side, it had been oversupplied and dealing with not just tariff uncertainty, but negative absorptions due to that excess supply. It seems like the market has clearly turned a corner. Could you comment on what you think drove the growth in the quarter?

而在工業方面，產能過剩，不僅要應付關稅的不確定性，還要應對因產能過剩而導致的負吸收。市場似乎已經明顯出現轉機。您能否談談您認為推動本季成長的因素是什麼？

Well, big leases in the best buildings. There's a lot of interest in those. And then on the smaller leases, in the smaller buildings, there were a lot of renewals. Those tend to be shorter leases older space, second-generation spaces. So you saw that coming from both ends of the market.

嗯，都是在最好的樓宇裡簽大額租約。人們對這些很感興趣。然後，在較小的建築物中，較小的租賃合約也有很多續約。這些通常是租期較短、較老舊的空間，或二代空間。所以你會看到市場兩端都出現了這種情況。

There has been a higher vacancy than usual the last couple of years. We know that. We think the vacancy is going to start going down by mid-year, next year. And I think what what's happening in part is these big sophisticated users whose large spaces or critical to their business have figured that out and are starting to take -- obviously, there's others that report their numbers in our sector that have done quite well in the last quarter, and are expecting to do quite well going forward, and that's what you're seeing here. You're not only seeing that here in the United States, you're seeing it around the world.

近兩年來，職缺率一直高於往年。我們知道這一點。我們認為到明年年中，職缺數量將會開始下降。我認為部分原因是，那些擁有龐大空間或對其業務至關重要的大型成熟用戶已經意識到這一點，並開始採取行動——顯然，我們行業中還有其他一些用戶公佈了他們的業績，他們在上個季度表現相當不錯，並預計未來也會表現得相當不錯，這就是你在這裡看到的。這種情況不僅發生在美國，在世界各地也普遍存在。

Thanks very much. If I could ask one follow-up, it would be on EBITDA margins. Are you expecting kind of steady-ish full-year EBITDA margins going forward? Or do you believe that there's still areas of growth that -- areas of margin expansion beyond 2025?

非常感謝。如果我能再問一個後續問題，那就是關於 EBITDA 利潤率的問題。你預計未來全年 EBITDA 利潤率會保持相對穩定嗎？還是您認為到 2025 年以後仍然存在成長空間——利潤率擴張的空間？

So Jade, we look at our margins within our services segment. And as you know, the development margins are -- can be pretty lumpy. And so within Advisory, for the full year, I think we're very close to our peak margins, at least going back to 2019. And we think that that's a pretty healthy margin, and we expect that to be sustained.

所以，Jade，我們來看看我們服務部門的利潤率。如你所知，開發利潤率——可能會非常不穩定。因此，就全年而言，我認為諮詢業務的利潤率非常接近峰值，至少是自 2019 年以來的峰值。我們認為這是一個相當健康的利潤率，並預計這一利潤率將得以維持。

Within BOE, we're going to deliver, as you know, good margin expansion this year. And as Bob noted, across facilities management, property management, we're going to see more synergies next year. And so you should expect that margin to continue to increase. And then Project Management as well as those cost synergies start to come in. And so you should expect to see some incremental margin expansion going into next year.

如您所知，今年BOE的利潤率將實現良好成長。正如鮑伯所指出的，在設施管理和物業管理方面，明年我們將看到更多的協同效應。因此，你應該預料到利潤率會繼續成長。然後專案管理以及成本綜效就開始發揮作用了。因此，預計明年利潤率將有所逐步提高。

Thanks so much.

非常感謝。

Thank you. We've reached the end our question-and-answer session. I'd like to turn the floor back over for your further or closing comments.

謝謝。我們的問答環節到此結束。我想把發言權交還給各位，請你們補充或作總結發言。

Thanks for joining us, everyone, and we'll talk to you next when we report year-end earnings.

感謝各位的參與，我們下次將在發布年終財報時再與大家見面。

Thank you. That does conclude today's teleconference and webcast. You may disconnect your line at this time, and have a wonderful day. We thank you for your participation today.

謝謝。今天的電話會議和網路直播到此結束。現在您可以斷開線路了，祝您有美好的一天。感謝您今天的參與。