Burford Capital Ltd (BUR) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Hello and thank you for standing by. My name is Bella, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to Burford Capital second quarter 2025 financial results conference call or audio webcast.

您好，感謝您的支持。我叫貝拉，今天我將擔任您的會議接線生。現在，我歡迎大家參加 Burford Capital 2025 年第二季財務業績電話會議或音訊網路廣播。

All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. (Operator Instructions) I would like to turn the conference over to Josh Wood, Head of Investor Relations at Burford. You may begin.

所有線路均已靜音，以防止任何背景噪音。（操作員指示）我想將會議交給 Burford 投資者關係主管 Josh Wood。你可以開始了。

Thank you, Bella, and good morning everyone. We hope you've all been enjoying a nice summer and we appreciate you joining us today to discuss Burford's second quarter results. On the call, we have our Chief Executive Officer, Chris Bogart; our Chief Investment Officer, Jon Molot; and our Chief Financial Officer Jordan Licht.

謝謝你，貝拉，大家早安。我們希望你們都度過了一個愉快的夏天，並感謝你們今天加入我們討論伯福德第二季的業績。參加電話會議的有我們的執行長克里斯·博加特 (Chris Bogart)、首席投資長喬恩·莫洛特 (Jon Molot) 和財務長喬丹·利希特 (Jordan Licht)。

Earlier this morning, we posted a detailed earnings presentation which we'll refer to during the call, and also filed our Form 10-Q, both of which you can find on our Investor Relations website.

今天早些時候，我們發布了一份詳細的收益報告，我們將在電話會議中參考該報告，同時也提交了我們的 10-Q 表，您可以在我們的投資者關係網站上找到這兩份報告。

But before we get started, just a reminder that today's call may contain forward-looking statements that involve certain risks, uncertainties, and other factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those discussed during the call. For more information regarding these risk factors, please refer to our earnings materials relating to this call posted on our website and our filings with the SEC.

但在開始之前，需要提醒的是，今天的電話會議可能包含前瞻性陳述，其中涉及某些風險、不確定性和其他因素，可能導致實際結果與電話會議中討論的結果有重大差異。有關這些風險因素的更多信息，請參閱我們網站上發布的與本次電話會議相關的收益材料以及我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件。

We'll also be referring to certain non-GAAP financial measures during the call. Please refer to today's earnings materials and our filings with the SEC for additional information, including reconciliations of these non-GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures.

我們也會在電話會議中提及某些非公認會計準則財務指標。請參閱今天的收益材料和我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件以獲取更多信息，包括這些非公認會計準則財務指標與最直接可比的公認會計準則指標的對賬。

And with that, I will turn the call over to Chris.

說完這些，我會把電話轉給克里斯。

Thanks very much, Josh, and thanks to everyone for joining us today. It was interesting just after the quarter closed, Bloomberg ran a piece entitled Litigation Thunder Burford's Week of Big Wins, and the piece opened by saying it's been a good week for Burford Capital, and that was absolutely true for reasons that we'll talk about with you. But in fact it wasn't just a good week, it's been a really good quarter and a really good six months, and I'm on slide 6 to take you through a few of the highlights.

非常感謝，喬希，也感謝大家今天加入我們。有趣的是，就在本季結束後，彭博社刊登了一篇題為《訴訟雷霆伯福德的一周大勝》的文章，文章開頭說，對於伯福德資本來說，這是美好的一周，而這絕對是事實，原因我們將與您討論。但事實上，這不僅僅是一個美好的一周，而是一個非常美好的季度和六個月，我將在第 6 張幻燈片上向大家介紹其中的一些亮點。

In terms of new business, we saw a really robust period for new business. The second quarter was significantly higher in terms of new definitive commitments than any period, any quarterly period that we've had for the last couple of years. And that if you look at this on a year-to-date basis, we're up very materially from the comparable 2024 period, up 71%.

就新業務而言，我們看到了新業務真正強勁的時期。就新的最終承諾而言，第二季比過去幾年的任何時期、任何季度都要高得多。如果從年初至今來看，與 2024 年同期相比，我們的成長非常顯著，成長了 71%。

So that's just showing, I think, the strong demand for our capital out there in the market and our continued ability to make substantial commitments against meaningful pieces of litigation and arbitration around the world and continues to show the benefit of the global footprint, and the incredible team that we have.

因此，我認為這表明了市場對我們資本的強勁需求，以及我們持續有能力對世界各地有意義的訴訟和仲裁做出重大承諾，並繼續顯示出全球影響力和我們擁有的優秀團隊的優勢。

Looking at the income statement, basically we were up across the Board here on a quarter to quarter basis, on a year-to-date versus year-to-date basis, and we've done that sort of throughout the piece. Net income, of course, goes up very strongly as you saw, 5 times on a year to day basis compared to 2024, 63% up on the quarter, but it wasn't just net income, it was across the piece.

從損益表來看，基本上我們的季度和年初至今的損益都是全線上漲的，我們在整個報告期間都是這樣做的。當然，如您所見，淨收入成長非常強勁，與 2024 年相比，同比增長了 5 倍，比上一季增長了 63%，但這不僅僅是淨收入，而是全方位的增長。

So revenues were up, as Jordan will talk about, operating expenses of returns to a run rate stable basis. So we're just very pleased with not only the level of new business that we were able to create, but the financial performance that the existing portfolio has continued to deliver.

因此，正如喬丹將要談到的，收入增加了，營運費用也恢復到了穩定的基礎。因此，我們不僅為能夠創造的新業務水平感到非常滿意，而且現有投資組合繼續提供的財務表現也讓我們感到非常滿意。

That financial performance means that when you look at the combination of new business that we're putting into the portfolio and the performance of the existing assets in the portfolio which have an impact on the base value of the portfolio. And again, this isn't a fair value thing, we're talking just about definitive commitments and costs and you saw that that number was up 15% year-to-date. That's actually a higher rate of growth than we need to achieve to be able to meet the targets that we set out -- the longer term targets that we set out in the April Investor Day.

財務表現意味著，當您查看我們放入投資組合的新業務組合和投資組合中現有資產的表現時，它們會對投資組合的基本價值產生影響。再說一次，這不是一個公平價值問題，我們談論的只是最終的承諾和成本，而且您會發現，今年迄今為止，這個數字已經上漲了 15%。事實上，這個成長率高於我們為實現所設定的目標（也就是我們在四月投資者日所設定的長期目標）所需達到的成長率。

And then cash kept on coming in the door from cases and that's obviously always a good thing to see. So four key messages, four key financial metrics for us, all of which were strong during the course of the quarter and have been strong year-to-date. I want to also touch on a couple of other things. First, we were successful shortly after the close of the quarter in going out and raising a new $500 million issuance.

然後，現金就不斷地從案件中湧入，這顯然是件好事。因此，對我們來說，有四個關鍵訊息、四個關鍵財務指標，它們在本季度都表現強勁，今年迄今也表現強勁。我還想談其他一些事情。首先，我們在本季結束後不久就成功發行了 5 億美元的新債券。

We were able to do that with great market support. That deal came together very rapidly, not much more than 24 hours. We were able not only to upsize it, but also to price it more tightly against the indices, both treasuries and the and the BB index, than we've ever been successful in before. And that we had also a lot of new debt investors come into the book. So that was just a very successful offering and I think it shows the market maturity that we have and the acceptance of the proposition that we have to offer in the market.

在強大的市場支持下我們做到了這一點。這筆交易達成得非常快，只花了不到 24 小時。我們不僅能夠擴大其規模，而且能夠使其價格與國債和 BB 指數等指數更加緊密地掛鉤，這是我們以前從未取得過的成功。而我們還有許多新的債務投資者加入。所以這是一次非常成功的產品，我認為這顯示了我們的市場成熟度以及市場對我們所提供的產品的接受度。

That gives us a very desirable cost of capital, especially compared to our competitors, and candidly, there's nobody else that we compete with in this market who has the ability to access capital like that on that kind of scale, time frame and pricing.

這為我們帶來了非常理想的資本成本，尤其是與我們的競爭對手相比，坦白說，在這個市場上，沒有其他競爭對手能夠以這樣的規模、時間範圍和價格獲得這樣的資本。

And finally, no call would be complete without a reference to YPF. YPF had a fair bit of progress during the course of the quarter. We now have a tentative oral argument date in October for the oral argument of the main appeal. That's been an item that we've been waiting for some time, and so it's delightful to see that moving ahead.

最後，如果不提及 YPF，通話就不完整。YPF 在本季取得了相當大的進展。目前，我們暫定於 10 月舉行主要上訴的口頭辯論。這是我們等待已久的事情，很高興看到它取得進展。

We've also had not only general progress, both in the United States and in other jurisdictions in terms of moving forward with our enforcement activities, but we had a specific victory in New York in that Judge Preska in the Southern District of New York granted our motion for the turnover of some of Argentina's YPF shares. That, of course, will be the subject of further legal proceedings. It's on appeal, as one would expect, but it was nonetheless another very strong marker of forward progress in the case.

我們不僅在美國和其他司法管轄區在推進執法活動方面取得了總體進展，而且我們在紐約取得了具體的勝利，紐約南區法官普雷斯卡批准了我們關於轉讓阿根廷部分 YPF 股份的動議。當然，這將成為進一步法律訴訟的主題。正如人們所預料的那樣，該案正在上訴，但這仍然是該案取得進展的另一個非常強大的標誌。

I know that that investors always want to hear a lot about YPF, and it's obviously an important part of our story, but at the same time, I hope that you'll continue to understand the constraints on us in terms of talking in detail about our strategy and our assessment of what has happened.

我知道投資者總是想聽到很多關於 YPF 的消息，這顯然是我們故事的重要組成部分，但同時，我希望你們能繼續理解我們在詳細談論我們的策略和對所發生的事情的評估方面的限制。

There's a lot public about YPF happily, and so investors really are capable, I think, of reading themselves into the case at whatever level of detail that they want. This isn't one of these cases where it's very difficult to find out information about what's actually going on. But when we talk about the case, the challenge, of course, is a litigation challenge.

公眾對 YPF 非常滿意，因此我認為投資者確實能夠以他們想要的任何詳細程度來了解該案。這並不是那種很難找到有關實際情況的資訊的情況。但當我們談論這個案件時，挑戰當然是訴訟挑戰。

You might remember that a couple of quarters ago I gave a longer version of an update about YPF, and investors found that helpful, but at the same time, so too did Argentina and Argentina has now quoted or referred to that about 100 times in court proceedings around the world. And it's just some noise that is probably not desirable, so I think we will continue to keep you abreast of major developments in the case, but in terms of commentary on the case, we're going to have to leave people to read themselves in on their own.

您可能還記得，幾個季度前我提供了有關 YPF 的更長版本的更新，投資者認為這很有幫助，但與此同時，阿根廷也認為這很有幫助，阿根廷現在已經在世界各地的法庭訴訟中引用或提及了這一點約 100 次。這只是一些可能不受歡迎的噪音，所以我認為我們會繼續讓您了解案件的主要進展，但就案件的評論而言，我們將不得不讓人們自己去閱讀。

And with that, let me turn you over to Jordan to walk through some numbers.

接下來，讓我把時間交給喬丹來介紹一些數字。

Thank you, Chris, and good morning to everybody. I'm starting off on slide 9, which gives you the overall combination of our two segments, principal finance and asset management.

謝謝你，克里斯，大家早安。我從第 9 張投影片開始，它向您展示了我們的兩個部門（主要財務部門和資產管理部門）的整體組合。

First, just looking at the total revenues, you can see a large increase of year-to-date compared to last year, $280 million versus $168 million in the same period. Bring that all the way down to the bottom line, you can see that our net income has also risen $120 million-ish compared to $24 million and earnings per share at $0.53 is close to 5 times for the same period last year.

首先，僅從總收入來看，您會發現今年迄今的營收與去年同期相比大幅增加，為 2.8 億美元，而去年同期為 1.68 億美元。將其一直歸結到底線，您可以看到我們的淨收入也從 2,400 萬美元增加了 1.2 億美元左右，每股收益為 0.53 美元，接近去年同期的 5 倍。

I'll walk us through the principal finance segment next. John will help me and then I'll hit asset management and walk through our expenses as well as our capital and liquidity.

接下來我將帶我們了解主要的財務部分。約翰會幫助我，然後我會進行資產管理並了解我們的開支以及資本和流動性。

So let's move to the principal finance segment. I'm skipping forward to page 12. Start off in the top left. Just the sheer size of the portfolio. When you look at fair value of $3.8 billion unfunded -- undrawn commitments of another 1.7 -- $1.8 billion, you can see how much that has grown since 2020.

那麼讓我們進入主要財務部分。我直接跳到第 12 頁。從左上角開始。只是投資組合的規模。當您查看 38 億美元未撥付資金的公允價值（另外還有 17 至 18 億美元未提取的承諾）時，您會發現自 2020 年以來這一數字增長了多少。

Let's take that $3.8 billion, the fair value, and break it down into a couple of components which you see down below, YPF makes up approximately 43% of the assets. You then have the remainder of the rest of the portfolio, $1.6 billion of deployed cost, and then another 33%, $550 million. That's 33% of deployed cost. That represents a fair value markup of the asset.

我們將這 38 億美元（公允價值）分解成下面幾個部分，YPF 約佔資產的 43%。然後你就得到了投資組合的剩餘部分，即 16 億美元的部署成本，然後是另外 33%，即 5.5 億美元。這佔部署成本的 33%。這代表了資產的公允價值加價。

Now when you look at that 33%, you can compare that to our historical ROIC and there is a large amount of revenue if we were to hit that historical RSC that has yet to come into the book.

現在，當您查看這 33% 時，您可以將其與我們的歷史 ROIC 進行比較，如果我們達到尚未計入帳目的歷史 RSC，那麼就會有大量收入。

So let's flip over to the right-hand side and look at the pie charts. If you look at the pie charts on the right, you see our exposure by geography. We're not just a US based company. Our clients are global, our cases are global. You have 51% in North America, that's predominantly the US, but then you have another 25%, 26% in EMEA, another 20%, that's a truly global portfolio.

讓我們翻到右邊看看餅圖。如果您查看右側的餅圖，您會看到我們按地理劃分的曝光情況。我們不僅僅是一家美國公司。我們的客戶是全球性的，我們的案例也是全球性的。您的投資組合有 51% 位於北美，主要是美國，另外還有 25%、26% 位於歐洲、中東和非洲地區，還有 20% 位於歐洲、中東和非洲地區，這是一個真正的全球投資組合。

And our assets are quite diverse. I look at the pie chart down below and I see 20% pizza slices, 21% where you truly have a mixed portfolio, 20% antitrust, 20% intellectual property, 18% arbitration, and that truly shows the diversity of our team, of our footprints, and of our asset types.

我們的資產相當多元化。我查看下面的餅圖，發現其中 20% 是披薩片，21% 是真正的混合投資組合，20% 是反壟斷，20% 是智慧財產權，18% 是仲裁，這真正顯示了我們團隊、我們的足跡和我們的資產類型的多樣性。

I move forward to page 13 to talk about how the asset moved forward over the asset -- the portfolio moved forward over the period. Overall, if you look at our capital provision income, you see total realized and unrealized gains on par with last year. Total capital provision income, of course, is much larger, $246 million versus $140 million year-to-date and a good mix between both YPF and the rest of the portfolio.

我翻到第 13 頁來討論資產如何隨著資產而向前移動——投資組合如何隨著期間而向前移動。總體而言，如果您查看我們的資本準備金收入，您會發現已實現和未實現的總收益與去年持平。當然，總資本準備金收入要大得多，為 2.46 億美元，而年初至今為 1.4 億美元，並且 YPF 和投資組合中的其他部分的比例很好。

When I look at the two bottom charts, they both say the same thing. Left-hand side is the second quarter, right-hand side is the year-to-date bridge. I'll focus on the left-hand slide side and just walk through these items. The asset grew of course by our deployments. This is the cash going out the door.

當我查看底部的兩個圖表時，它們都表達了同樣的意思。左側是第二季度，右側是年初至今的橋樑。我將重點關注左側幻燈片並簡單介紹這些項目。當然，資產因我們的部署而成長。這就是流出的現金。

You see a passage of time, which is the next green bar. That's the duration impact as our assets move closer towards ultimate conclusion. And you can see when you compare the left to the right, $61 million on the left, $120 million, which makes sense given one quarter versus two quarters.

您會看到時間的流逝，也就是下一個綠色條。這就是我們的資產接近最終結論時產生的持續影響。當您將左邊的數字與右邊的數字進行比較時，您會發現，左邊的數字是 6100 萬美元，右邊的數字是 1.2 億美元，這對於一個季度與兩個季度而言是有道理的。

Discount rates were favorable this period and since our assets are at net present value, when interest rates come down, the asset goes up in value, interest rates, the discount rate that we use to discount our assets was approximately 20 basis points in this quarter and also around 20 basis points in the first quarter and so you see the $25 million there of improvement.

本期間的折現率很有利，而且由於我們的資產處於淨現值，當利率下降時，資產價值就會上升，利率，我們用來貼現資產的折現率本季度約為 20 個基點，第一季度也約為 20 個基點，所以你可以看到那裡有 2500 萬美元的改善。

And then you have the impact of milestones and the other inputs. These are model inputs as well as the objective milestones that we see as our cases progress. And of course realizations and realizations should be negative. That's when the asset completes and turns itself into cash. And so you can see the progression of 3.6 billion to 3.8 billion.

然後你就會受到里程碑和其他投入的影響。這些是模型輸入，也是我們在案件進展過程中看到的客觀里程碑。當然，認識和實現應該是消極的。此時資產就完成並轉化為現金。因此你可以看到從 36 億到 38 億的成長。

Well, let's talk a little bit more about how that asset continues to grow by moving to page 14, and it grows at first by us putting out new definitive commitments. A definitive commitment is one in which we've underwritten the case, and Chris alluded to, how the second quarter was a great quarter with respect to the amount of business that we put on.

好吧，讓我們透過翻到第 14 頁來進一步討論該資產如何繼續成長，它首先透過我們提出新的最終承諾而成長。明確的承諾是我們已承保的案件，克里斯提到，就我們開展的業務量而言，第二季度是一個偉大的季度。

If you just look at year-to-date 2025 versus 2024, you can see the huge growth, $518 million compared to the $300 million in the same period last year, and you can see the second quarter $361 million is the largest quarter compared to the last nine.

如果您只看 2025 年迄今為止與 2024 年相比的情況，您就會發現巨大的增長，5.18 億美元，而去年同期為 3 億美元，而且您會發現第二季度的 3.61 億美元是過去九個季度中增長最快的一個季度。

When you look at those new definitive commitments, you then say look down at the chart, the pie chart on the bottom left, and you see that we now have over a $1 billion of new definitive commitment. We talked to you on Investor Day about growing the portfolio and that growth in the portfolio is around deployed cost and these cases that we've underwritten. And just looking at the new definitive commitments, that's grown from under $800 million at the end of the year to the $1,065 million it is now.

當您查看這些新的最終承諾時，您會低頭看圖表，即左下角的餅圖，您會發現我們現在有超過 10 億美元的新最終承諾。我們在投資者日與您討論了投資組合的成長，而投資組合的成長圍繞著部署成本以及我們承保的這些案例。光從新的最終承諾來看，這一數字就從年底的不到 8 億美元成長到現在的 10.65 億美元。

As you recall though, these commitments are not revolvers. The clients need to do the work in order to get invoiced in order for us to put the money out. And so you'll see that move episodically through each period. Overall our deployments were in line with what they were last year.

但正如你們所記得的，這些承諾並不是左輪手槍。客戶需要完成工作才能開立發票，這樣我們才能把錢發放出去。因此，您會看到它在每個時期內逐漸發生。總體而言，我們的部署與去年一致。

Lets turn to 15 to talk about our realizations. Overall realizations were ahead of pace of last year at $225 million versus $219 million. You then look at the ROICs on the bottom and you see that year-to-date we're at 37% and I think it's important to remind people of what we discussed in the first quarter.

讓我們翻到第 15 頁來談談我們的實現。整體實現額高於去年同期的 2.25 億美元，去年同期為 2.19 億美元。然後你看一下底部的 ROIC，你會發現今年迄今為止我們的 ROIC 為 37%，我認為有必要提醒大家我們在第一季討論的內容。

Our assets aren't homogeneous. Some are longer in durations, some are shorter, and they have different wristbands which we depicted on the slide earlier. We had an asset in the first quarter that was originated in 2024 that concluded early in 2025.

我們的資產並不均質。有些持續時間較長，有些持續時間較短，它們有不同的腕帶，我們之前在幻燈片上對此進行了描述。我們在第一季擁有一項資產，該資產於 2024 年發起，並於 2025 年初結束。

And when you saw that, you see a low ROIC, which makes sense when an asset has a short duration, but the IRR at 40% was quite healthy and above our average. And so naturally you would expect to see the year-to-date 2025 ROIC be slightly lower than our historical. But that's not the only asset that concluded. It's important to note that in addition to that, we've had six additional assets generate $10 or more million dollars in year-to-date 2025.

當您看到這一點時，您會看到較低的 ROIC，當資產期限較短時這是有道理的，但 40% 的 IRR 非常健康並且高於我們的平均水平。因此，您自然會預期 2025 年年初至今的 ROIC 將略低於我們的歷史水準。但這並不是唯一結束的資產。值得注意的是，除此之外，我們還有六項額外資產在 2025 年年初至今創造了 1,000 萬美元或更多的收入。

And with that, I'd like to turn it over to John to speak a little bit more about the portfolio.

接下來，我想請約翰進一步談談投資組合的情況。

Thanks, Jordan, and thanks to you all for joining. As Jordan said, we're -- we have different ways that cases resolve and generate cash for us. And if you turn to slide 16, you see that not just in a particular quarter but over our lifetime. And we have now had realizations exceeding $3.5 billion over our lifetime, and you see it's not that complicated a business, right? I mean there may be variation as Jordan said with shorter term, lower risk, high dollar that produce quick settlements and great IRRs but lower ROIC. And then you have some things that go all the way to trial through appeals and you can earn large multiples, and we see that breakdown on slide 16.

謝謝，喬丹，也謝謝大家的加入。正如喬丹所說，我們有不同的方式來解決案件並為我們創造現金。如果你翻到第 16 張投影片，你會看到這不僅發生在某個特定的季度，而是發生在我們的一生中。現在，我們一生中的收益已經超過 35 億美元，您看，這並不是什麼複雜的業務，對吧？我的意思是，正如喬丹所說，可能會存在差異，期限較短、風險較低、美元較高，從而產生快速結算和較高的內部收益率，但投資資本回報率較低。然後，有些事情會一直進行到上訴審理，這樣你就可以獲得大筆的倍數收入，我們在第 16 張投影片上看到了具體情況。

Of that $3.5 billion, roughly 2.5 billion is coming from settlements. 78% of our deployments result in settlement. And about just under a $1 billion has come from adjudication wins, which comes from just 15% of our deployments but earning much higher returns.

在這 35 億美元中，約 25 億美元來自和解。我們 78% 的部署都以和解告終。其中約 10 億美元來自裁決勝利，僅占我們部署的 15%，但獲得的回報卻高得多。

In contrast, our adjudication losses are only 7% of deployments. Like when you think about this slide, it really shows you why Chris and Jordan are able to say we had a good quarter and we're able to say that again and again. I'm focused less on any particular quarter and more on how the business performs over the long haul.

相比之下，我們的裁決損失僅佔部署的 7%。就像當你想到這張投影片時，它確實向你展示了為什麼克里斯和喬丹能夠說我們度過了一個美好的季度，並且我們能夠一遍又一遍地說這一點。我不太關注某個特定季度，而是更關注業務的長期表現。

But to generate the 83% return on invested capital, 26% IRR with a weighted average life of 2.6 years, like how do we do that? Well, the asset class lends itself to that because there's two ways that things resolved. They either settle or they go to trial.

但是，要實現 83% 的投資資本回報率、26% 的內部收益率以及 2.6 年的加權平均壽命，我們該如何做到呢？嗯，資產類別適合於此，因為有兩種方法可以解決問題。他們要么和解，要么接受審判。

The second part of it is we're good at what we do, you can see that we pick cases that win more often than they lose much more often than they lose at trial, and that defendants recognize our strong cases as you move along and therefore they come to the table and settle.

第二部分是我們擅長我們所做的事情，你可以看到，我們挑選的案件勝訴的次數比敗訴的次數多得多，而且隨著案件的進展，被告認識到我們強有力的論據，因此他們來到談判桌前達成和解。

So this slide, I think, is capturing in numbers the quality of our team and the attractiveness of the asset class. And if you turn to slide 17, which I've spoken to before, it sort of hammers that home but in a dispersion of all of our investment outcomes representation.

因此，我認為這張投影片以數字的形式體現了我們團隊的品質和資產類別的吸引力。如果你翻到第 17 張投影片，我之前已經談過，它在某種程度上強調了這一點，但分散了我們所有的投資結果表現。

So what I mentioned before, our losses are fewer. They're also smaller. You look at the left side of the chart, the black bars. The winds are more plentiful, but you also see some of them are very large, those red bars where we are earning greater than a 200% return on invested capital.

所以我之前提到的，我們的損失較少。它們也更小。你看圖表左側的黑色長條。風力更加強勁，但你也會看到其中一些非常強勁，那些紅色長條代表我們的投資回報率超過 200%。

That's a triple or better with most people's lingo. So the asymmetry of returns makes this a really attractive asset, and the way our team does it, we're able to get the most out of it. I just -- I can't think of another place to invest capital that produces these kinds of returns because of the nature that's a class if you do it right.

用大多數人的話來說，這是三倍或更高。因此，回報的不對稱性使其成為一種真正有吸引力的資產，而且透過我們團隊的做法，我們能夠最大限度地利用它。我只是——我想不出還有哪個地方可以投資資本並產生這樣的回報，因為如果你做得對，這就是一門學問。

And if you turn to slide 17, you see that representation this time it is over time by vintage. And what's interesting about this table is, again, you see the same IRR and ROC I see in the upper right over the life, and you see that breakdown differently year to year.

如果你翻到第 17 張投影片，你會看到這次的表示是隨著年份的變化而改變的。表格的有趣之處在於，您再次看到與右上角相同的 IRR 和 ROC，並且您會看到每年的細分情況都不同。

As Jordan said, there could be a year where you have a very large short duration matter that the money goes out and comes back in relatively quickly. We are in a very attractive IRR, but a lower [ROIC] and other matters go the distance, take longer, and can produce truly outsized returns over time and across the portfolio these are where the numbers come down.

正如喬丹所說，在某一年，你可能會遇到一筆金額很大的短期事務，資金支出和收入都會相對較快。我們處於一個非常有吸引力的內部收益率 (IRR)，但較低的 [ROIC] 和其他事項需要更長的時間，並且隨著時間的推移可以產生真正超額的回報，而在整個投資組合中，這些數字就會下降。

And we're very happy to have that diversity, and Jordan mentioned, we have diversity across geography, subject matter, counterparty, you name it. A lot of the diversity is in terms of risk and duration and size as well, and we're very happy to have that. It makes for a robust portfolio that is performed very well over time and that is poised to continue to deliver.

我們很高興擁有這種多樣性，喬丹提到，我們在地域、主題、交易對手等方面都具有多樣性。許多多樣性體現在風險、持續時間和規模方面，我們很高興擁有這些。它構成了一個穩健的投資組合，其長期表現非常出色，並有望繼續發揮作用。

So, one thing that's interesting about this is not just comparing the red bars to the black and gray. That's the first when you look at this, you say, well, how much did you put out, how much do you get back? Those red bars are quite attractive and you see, not surprisingly, the older vintages, the red is going to be higher relative to black and gray because more things have had time to work their way through the system and resolve, whereas for the more recent vintages, things haven't resolved yet. So the red isn't going to be as high. And so over time we see the red bars go up.

因此，有趣的是，這不僅僅是將紅色條與黑色和灰色進行比較。當你看到這個時，你首先會問，你投入了多少，又能得到多少回報？這些紅色條非常有吸引力，而且您會看到，毫不奇怪，年份越老，紅色相對於黑色和灰色就越高，因為更多的事情有時間通過系統來解決，而對於較新的年份，事情還沒有解決。所以紅色不會那麼高。隨著時間的推移，我們會看到紅色條上升。

But I also don't want you to think the black and gray are stagnant. I mean, Jordan mentioned before when we talked about how good this past quarter was, as a matter of definitive commitments, we make commitments at the beginning, but it takes time for the lawyers working on the case to incur costs and to bill hours and the money then goes from being a definitive commitment to an actual deployment. So the black and gray go up in the more recent vintages as well over time, and then the red will follow.

但我也不想讓你認為黑色和灰色是停滯的。我的意思是，喬丹之前提到過，當我們談論上個季度的表現有多好時，就最終承諾而言，我們一開始就做出了承諾，但負責此案的律師需要時間來產生費用併計費，然後這些錢就會從最終承諾變成實際部署。因此，隨著時間的推移，黑色和灰色在最近的年份中也會增加，然後紅色也會增加。

And, it's just as I say, it's not that complicated. I guess it's complicated to underwrite any piece of litigation, but when you have a book like this with a team like we do, it just continues to perform and I'm very pleased.

而且，正如我所說，它並沒有那麼複雜。我想承保任何訴訟都是很複雜的，但是當你和我們這樣的團隊一起承保這樣的訴訟時，它就會繼續發揮作用，我感到非常高興。

So with that, I will turn it back over.

因此，我將把它翻回來。

Thanks so much.

非常感謝。

Thanks, Jon. I'll quickly switch over to the asset management segment. On page 22, you can see some of the highlights depicted in pictures, the asset management income year-to-date of $21 million compares favorably to where we were at the same point last year.

謝謝，喬恩。我將很快轉到資產管理部分。在第 22 頁，您可以看到圖片中描繪的一些亮點，今年迄今的資產管理收入為 2,100 萬美元，與去年同期相比表現良好。

And in the first quarter, I'll remind folks again that we recognized for the first time proceeds from the Advantage fund. This was -- this is obviously a good first step in seeing that fund and its performance and value to us. Overall, you look at the size of the asset management portfolio, it's around $2 billion. You have $1 billion in the partnership with the sovereign wealth fund and then slightly under $1 billion with respect to our other private funds.

在第一季度，我再次提醒大家，我們首次確認了優勢基金的收益。這顯然是了解該基金及其績效和價值的良好第一步。整體而言，資產管理組合的規模約為 20 億美元。您與主權財富基金合作投資了 10 億美元，而我們與其他私人基金的合作投資則略低於 10 億美元。

You then look at our overall cash and our liquidity. I'm on page 24, and you sit here and say we've got $440 million of cash at the end of the quarter. That number obviously doesn't include the recent debt issuance that Chris just mentioned, but it was overall absent that still a very strong period with respect to cash year-to-date. If you look at the bottom right-hand side, you can see that we've got $306 million of cash receipts year-to-date, which compares very favorably to the year-to-date of $245 million same point last year. Overall, we also still have $118 million of receivables on the balance sheet as of the end of the quarter.

然後你看看我們的整體現金和流動性。我現在看到第 24 頁，而您坐在這裡說我們在本季末有 4.4 億美元現金。這個數字顯然不包括克里斯剛才提到的最近發行的債務，但總體而言，今年迄今的現金狀況仍然非常強勁。如果您看一下右下角，您會發現今年迄今為止我們的現金收入為 3.06 億美元，與去年同期的 2.45 億美元相比非常有利。整體而言，截至本季末，我們的資產負債表上仍有 1.18 億美元的應收帳款。

You look at our expenses on page 25, and as Chris had mentioned, the quarter and year-to-date increases in expenses are predominantly attributable to variable non-cash drivers in the comp and benefit line, and I'll spend a little bit of time walking through that.

請看第 25 頁的費用，正如克里斯所提到的，本季和年初至今的費用增加主要歸因於補償和福利項目中的可變非現金驅動因素，我將花一點時間來解釋這一點。

First and foremost, I've talked about this before. Movements in the share price impact the share-based and deferred compensation line. When our employees elected to defer their compensation and select Burford stock, that liability moves with the share price, and we hedge that. Unfortunately it doesn't come through the income statement, but we buy those shares in the market to offset that.

首先，我之前已經談過這個問題。股價變動會影響股票薪酬和遞延薪酬線。當我們的員工選擇推遲領取薪酬並選擇 Burford 股票時，該負債會隨著股價而變動，我們會對此進行對沖。不幸的是，它沒有透過損益表體現出來，但我們在市場上購買這些股票來抵消它。

The other piece that you'll see is long term incentive comp is up, but of course it's up. It should be. That is directly tied to our revenue as it represents our AI program, and we had a lot more revenue in this year-to-date period versus the same time last year. And then finally you can see our G&A line, that has come down to around $7.6 million, and that's right in line with the same quarter last year, as well as the average throughout all of 2024.

您將看到的另一件事是長期激勵薪酬上漲了，當然是上漲了。應該是。這與我們的收入直接相關，因為它代表了我們的人工智慧計劃，而今年迄今為止我們的收入與去年同期相比有了很大的提高。最後，您可以看到我們的 G&A 線已降至約 760 萬美元，這與去年同期以及 2024 年全年的平均值一致。

I'll finish up with our capital. Chris talked about the success of the issuance around the [2033s], and you can see that we've pro-formed the end of the quarter numbers on this page.

我會用完我們的資本。克里斯談到了 [2033 年] 左右發行的成功，您可以看到我們已經在此頁面上預測了季度末的數字。

First off, $123 million will be going out the door next week to pay off the 2025. But more importantly, you can see that we've extended the maturity schedule. We enjoy the latter debt maturity schedule. It compares very favorably to the way in which our assets perform. That's been pushed out to 5.2 years. The weighted average cost of debt has only moved around 10 basis points. We're at 7.4% in terms of our weighted average.

首先，下週將撥付 1.23 億美元償還 2025 年的債務。但更重要的是，您可以看到我們延長了到期時間表。我們享受後者的債務到期安排。與我們的資產表現相比，這非常有利。這一期限已延長至 5.2 年。債務加權平均成本僅變動了約 10 個基點。我們的加權平均值為 7.4%。

And overall, our metrics with respect to our covenants are well within covenant levels at 0.9 times which puts us in a great place to continue to maintain the balance sheet, to continue to invest in new assets, and we have plenty of capital to do that as we look to continue to grow.

總體而言，我們的契約指標完全在 0.9 倍的契約水準之內，這使我們能夠繼續維持資產負債表，繼續投資新資產，並且我們有足夠的資本來做到這一點，因為我們希望繼續成長。

And so with that, I'd like to turn it over to Chris for some closing remarks and then Q&A.

因此，我想將時間交給克里斯，讓他做一些結束語，然後進行問答。

Thanks very much, Jordan, and I'm on slide 27. Just I'll leave you with a couple of thoughts that we've already hit during the course of the presentation. The first is around new business.

非常感謝，喬丹，我現在在第 27 張幻燈片上。我只想給你們留下我們在演講過程中已經討論過的幾個想法。第一個是關於新業務。

We wrote a lot of new business. We're happy with what's happening there. As we said during the last call that we had with you, one of the factors affecting new business is the extent to which we have big cases which are usually multi-party cases, and sometimes we do and sometimes we don't in the period. This period and the period before we do. And so that's a good thing.

我們寫了很多新業務。我們對那裡發生的事情感到高興。正如我們在上次與您通話時所說的那樣，影響新業務的因素之一是我們擁有的大型案件的數量，這些案件通常是多方案件，有時我們會有，有時我們不會。這個時期和之前的時期我們都這麼做。這是一件好事。

It's not predictable, it's episodic, but when it happens, it just adds, as John was describing, to the overall value of the going forward portfolio because those are cash flows. Those cases do often settle, and those are cash flows that will come back to us during the course of future years.

它是不可預測的，它是偶發的，但當它發生時，正如約翰所描述的，它只會增加未來投資組合的整體價值，因為這些都是現金流。這些案件通常都會得到解決，而這些現金流將在未來幾年內回到我們手中。

So we're thrilled with the new business that we've written. We're thrilled with the overall growth in the portfolio base again, as I said before, exceeding the level that we would need to be able to meet the longer term commitments that we outlined for you before at Investor Day.

因此，我們對我們所開展的新業務感到非常興奮。正如我之前所說，我們對投資組合基礎的整體成長感到非常興奮，這超過了我們在投資者日之前為您概述的履行長期承諾所需的水平。

We're delighted as well that things are happening in the YPF case. Nobody ever says litigation goes faster than you want it to, and the YPF case is an example of things that have not gone as quickly as we would have liked.

我們也很高興看到 YPF 案件的進展。沒有人說過訴訟會比你希望的進展得更快，而 YPF 案就是一個例子，說明事情並沒有像我們所希望的那樣進展得那麼快。

But once you have forward momentum, that's a good thing, and you've seen obviously a whole lot of press coverage and media reaction to those developments. And Jordan just talked about our ability to access the markets, that's a really significant competitive moat for us.

但一旦你有了前進的動力，這是一件好事，而且你顯然已經看到大量新聞報導和媒體對這些事態發展的反應。喬丹剛才談到了我們進入市場的能力，這對我們來說是一個非常重要的競爭優勢。

You don't see anybody else doing this. We remain the only litigation finance firm in the world that is either publicly listed in the New York Stock Exchange or accessing the US debt markets, the US public debt markets.

你不會看到其他人這樣做。我們仍然是世界上唯一一家在紐約證券交易所上市或進入美國債務市場（美國公共債務市場）的訴訟融資公司。

So with that, we're pleased with where we stand, and we'd be delighted to take your questions.

因此，我們對目前的狀況感到滿意，並且很高興回答您的問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Mark DeVries, Deutsche Bank.

德意志銀行的馬克‧德弗里斯。

Thanks. I appreciate the incremental comments on YPF. I have a few follow-ups that I think you can respond to without providing more fodder for Argentina's efforts to kind of distract the courts. More on timing. Any sense for, what the timing is for the Second Circuit to hear the appeal for Argentina, on the order to turn over the YPF shares?

謝謝。我很欣賞對 YPF 的補充評論。我還有一些後續問題，我認為您可以回應，但不要為阿根廷分散法庭注意力的行為提供更多素材。更多關於時間安排。請問，第二巡迴法院何時審理阿根廷關於移交 YPF 股份命令的上訴？

So there's sort of a two-part procedure going on there. So what happened is Judge Preska, on June 30, issued her order requiring the turnover of the shares. And then Argentina went back to her and asked her to stay that order pending appeal. And she declined to do so. She issued a written order saying basically that Argentina had been dragging their fee.

因此，這是一個由兩部分組成的程序。實際情況是，普雷斯卡法官於 6 月 30 日發布了命令，要求交出股票。然後阿根廷回覆她並要求她在上訴期間暫緩執行該命令。但她拒絕這樣做。她發布了一項書面命令，稱阿根廷一直在拖延繳納費用。

Argentina then went to the Second Circuit Court of Appeals, and again did two things. One is they appealed the underlying turnover order, and the second is they asked the Second Circuit for a stay of the order.

阿根廷隨後向第二巡迴上訴法院提起訴訟，再次做了兩件事。一是他們對相關的移交命令提出上訴，二是他們請求第二巡迴法院暫緩執行命令。

And so the Second Circuit's first of all, is going to decide whether to stay the order, and that's something that one would imagine they would decide fairly quickly.

因此，第二巡迴法院首先要決定是否維持該命令，人們可以想像他們會很快做出決定。

The matter is calendar next week before a motions panel, but who knows when that motions panel, especially since we're in August, will issue a decision. So that's the stay portion of it. And the decision on the stay probably has an impact on the speed of the appeal itself of the turnover order being heard, so there's not a briefing schedule in place yet for the appeal of the turnover.

該問題將於下週由動議小組進行審議，但是誰知道動議小組何時會做出決定，尤其是現在已經是八月了。這就是它的停留部分。而且，暫停執行的決定可能會影響移交令上訴的審理速度，因此目前尚未制定移交令上訴的簡報時間表。

Okay, that's helpful. And then, on the broader appeal of the case of the Second Circuit, can you just give a sense for how long it might take the Second Circuit to give its judgment once it's heard the case for the appeal?

好的，這很有幫助。然後，關於第二巡迴法院案件的更廣泛的上訴，您能否介紹一下第二巡迴法院在審理上訴案件後需要多長時間才能做出判決？

Yeah, unfortunately there's really no answer to that. It depends very much on the workload of the individual members of the panel that hear the case. Just to back up from that, the Second Circuit is composed of 20 odd judges, but only 3 of them hear individual cases, so you'll get a panel of 3 judges. And the timing of a of a decision will depend on the workload and speed of the member of the court who ultimately is assigned to write the decision. You would hope that this would be measured in months, but it's very difficult beyond that to predict anything.

是的，不幸的是，這個問題確實沒有答案。這在很大程度上取決於審理案件的小組各個成員的工作量。再說一遍，第二巡迴法院由 20 多名法官組成，但其中只有 3 名法官審理個案，因此您將獲得一個由 3 名法官組成的陪審團。而判決的時間則取決於最終負責撰寫判決的法庭成員的工作量和速度。您可能希望以月為單位來衡量，但除此之外，很難預測任何事情。

Okay, got it. And then just one last one on the YPF related unrealized gains in the quarter, was that mainly driven by the Southern Districts ruling that they had to hand over the shares, or was it related to some of the other progress you mentioned, Chris, and other jurisdictions?

好的，明白了。最後再問一個關於本季度 YPF 相關的未實現收益的問題，這主要是因為南區裁定他們必須交出股份，還是與您提到的其他一些進展（克里斯，以及其他司法管轄區）有關？

Jordan, do you want to touch on that?

喬丹，你想談談這個嗎？

Yeah, I appreciate it. There's a couple of components. Obviously, there's what you just mentioned as well as duration, just given the fact that we move forward a quarter and some interest rate change. So, Mark, that's not something that we're going to detail how every single component there works, but those are the factors that moved it.

是的，我很感激。有幾個組件。顯然，這就是您剛才提到的以及持續時間，只是考慮到我們前進了一個季度並且利率發生了一些變化。所以，馬克，我們不會詳細說明每個組件是如何運作的，但這些都是推動它發生的因素。

Okay, got it. Thank you.

好的，明白了。謝謝。

Julian Roberts, Jefferies.

朱利安羅伯茨，傑富瑞。

Hi there, thanks very much for taking my questions. I've got a couple. It looks like, obviously the YPF fair value gain resulting from progress in the case wasn't the whole of the value gain in the quarter. Can you give us any sense of how many other cases contributed to the fair value gains, because of progress on the individual matters and whether there was any one that contributed quite a lot.

您好，非常感謝您回答我的問題。我有幾個。看起來，案件進展帶來的 YPF 公允價值收益顯然不是本季的全部價值收益。您能否告訴我們，有多少其他案件由於個別事項的進展而對公允價值收益做出了貢獻，以及是否有任何案件做出了相當大的貢獻。

And then my second question, which really comes in two parts, relates to the schedule of new assets for the first half of 2025. And I was going to say, the Asian ones, I don't think he made any investments in Asia last year. Are those in any way links to the litigation and the and the contract cases there, which I see both single?

我的第二個問題實際上分為兩部分，涉及 2025 年上半年新資產的計劃。我想說的是，關於亞洲的投資，我認為他去年沒有在亞洲進行任何投資。這些是否與那裡的訴訟和合約案件有任何關聯？我認為它們都是單一的。

And then I was going to say the, you've had initial success it appears in two other cases. One is a global mixed IP single case where you've had -- you had $5 million of realizations, and there are still $24 million worth of deployments outstanding. Is it fair to read some success into that it being a single case and is to what extent can we be optimistic about the rest of that realizing in the not too distant future?

然後我想說的是，你已經取得了初步成功，這在另外兩個案例中有所體現。一個是全球混合 IP 單一案例，您已經實現了 500 萬美元，並且仍有價值 2400 萬美元的部署未完成。將其作為單一案例來解讀為某種成功是否公平？在不久的將來，我們對其他案例的成功實現有多樂觀？

So Jordan, do you want to take the first half of that and John the second perhaps?

那麼喬丹，你想拿前半部分，約翰拿後半部分嗎？

Yeah, so, Julian, I appreciate the fact that you study the website table. The first piece in terms of individual cases moving it, and you know we don't speak a lot around any individual cases, but on page 13, we do break out, YPF versus the rest of the portfolio, I wouldn't say that, in particular is one case or not, as I mentioned also, when we look at the realizations, we did have 6 different realizations besides the one that I had mentioned in the first half of the year that were over $10 million. So I would say, broadly speaking, it's an array across the book.

是的，朱利安，我很欣賞你研究網站表格。第一部分是關於個案的討論，你知道我們不會過多談論個案，但在第 13 頁，我們確實列出了 YPF 與投資組合的其他部分，我不會說具體是一個案例，正如我提到的那樣，當我們查看實現情況時，除了我在上半年提到的超過 1000 萬美元的實現情況外，我們確實有 6 種不同的情況。所以我想說，從廣義上講，它是整本書的陣列。

Great, thank you.

太好了，謝謝。

And John, do you want me to touch on or do you want to do that?

約翰，你想讓我談談嗎，或者你想這樣做嗎？

I think you could feel free. I mean, I would guess I would just say that when I look both at the questions about where realizations or fair value gains are coming and the question of deployment of capital. Although it is true there are certain core things we get particularly excited about that move the needle, like we've grown enough, the portfolio is big enough, both in terms of what we're putting out and what's moving through the pipeline and the underwriting process at any given time, and even more so what's in the portfolio that it's probably wouldn't make sense to focus too much on any one thing, as a harbinger of how the book is going to perform over the next quarters. There's no doubt that when you have a partial realization from a matter with a lot of money still outstanding, that's a good sign. But I don't think I'd say anything beyond that, Chris, I don't know if you have color on it.

我想你可以感到自由。我的意思是，當我考慮實現或公允價值收益的來源問題以及資本部署問題時，我就會這麼說。儘管確實有一些核心的事情讓我們特別興奮，這些事情會推動事情的發展，比如我們已經足夠成長，投資組合已經足夠大，無論是就我們推出的產品而言，還是在任何特定時間通過渠道和承保流程的產品而言，更重要的是，投資組合中的內容，可能沒有必要過多地關注任何一件事，因為這預示著賬簿在未來幾個季度的表現。毫無疑問，當你從某件事中部分實現了還款，但仍有大量資金未償還時，這是一個好兆頭。但我認為我不會再說任何除此之外的事情，克里斯，我不知道你對此是否有看法。

Yeah, well, Julian, thanks for the questions. We haven't actually talked all that much about the way intellectual property cases work, and so maybe it's worth just 30 seconds on that point, because like lots of other kinds of litigation, they fall into different categories or different buckets. So sometimes we are, for example, financing a university that has developed some innovative technology and believes that there is an infringement going on of that technology and the university doesn't have a budget to go and pursue it. And so we might there have one patent against one potential measure.

是的，朱利安，謝謝你的提問。我們實際上還沒有過多談論智慧財產權案件的運作方式，所以也許只值得花 30 秒來討論這一點，因為與許多其他類型的訴訟一樣，它們屬於不同的類別或不同的範疇。例如，有時我們會為某所開發了創新技術的大學提供資金，並認為該技術正在受到侵權，而該大學又沒有預算去開發該技術。因此，我們可能針對一項潛在措施擁有一項專利。

But the other thing that might be happening is that you might actually have a category wide dynamic. So again, early technology development, that in a patent that people have overlooked, and now the university or whoever the patent holder is saying, well, look, this wonderful new technology that lots of people are using all of their uses infringe my patent.

但可能發生的另一件事是，您實際上可能擁有一個類別範圍的動態。因此，再次強調，早期的技術開發，在人們忽視的專利中，現在大學或任何專利持有人都在說，好吧，看，這項很多人都在使用的精彩的新技術，他們的所有用途都侵犯了我的專利。

And so there you might have, litigation, you might have licensing, you might have a combination of the two, and those you can often have sort of a campaign style approach in a not dissimilar way that we have multi-party campaigns in the core commercial business. And so seeing one realization, as John said, suggests that somebody out there believes they're vulnerable and therefore has settled, but that might just be the beginning of that campaign's potential over time.

因此，您可能會有訴訟，您可能會有許可，您可能會將兩者結合起來，並且您通常可以採用一種競選式的方式，其方式與我們在核心商業業務中開展的多方競選方式並無不同。因此，正如約翰所說，看到一種認識表明，有人相信他們很脆弱，因此已經安定下來，但這可能只是這場運動隨著時間的推移潛力的開始。

Got it, that's very clear. Thank you.

明白了，非常清楚。謝謝。

Thanks, bye.

謝謝，再見。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Randy Binner, B. Riley Securities.

蘭迪·賓納 (Randy Binner)，B. Riley 證券。

Hey, good morning. Thank you. apologize if I missed this in the prepared run through the deck, but with just an asset management, the asset management income of $7.1 million in the quarter, it just was kind of below our expectation in the model, and I just, I didn't quite catch why that was lower than in kind of other recent quarters. Can we review that please?

嘿，早安。謝謝。如果我在準備好的演示中錯過了這一點，請見諒，但僅就資產管理而言，本季度的資產管理收入為 710 萬美元，這有點低於我們在模型中的預期，我只是，我不太明白為什麼這比其他最近幾個季度的要低。我們可以複習一下嗎？

Sure, Jordan, do you want to do that?

當然，喬丹，你想這麼做嗎？

Sure, well, overall, when you look at our asset management piece, you first, I think have to look at some of our historical funds still need to hit hurdles for us to hit the European based for us to receive the income, and those are funds -- some of those funds are ones that we inherited as part of the asset management acquisition years ago.

當然，總的來說，當您查看我們的資產管理部分時，我認為您首先必須查看我們的一些歷史基金，這些基金仍然需要突破障礙才能達到歐洲標準，以便我們獲得收入，而這些基金 - 其中一些基金是我們多年前作為資產管理收購的一部分繼承的。

With respect to the funds that we originated, those assets tend to be commingled with the balance sheet, and they'll tend to move generally in tandem with our recent vintages. Randy, I apologize, I can't speak directly to what you modeled. The funds in of themselves are not obviously we're not growing at the same pace as they have historically been our focus has been on continuing to build the balance sheet as we move forward.

就我們發起的基金而言，這些資產往往與資產負債表混合在一起，而且它們往往會與我們近期的走勢同步。蘭迪，很抱歉，我無法直接談論你所模仿的事情。資金本身顯然沒有以與歷史上相同的速度成長，我們的重點一直是繼續建立資產負債表。

Okay, that's helpful, thank you, yeah, we'll just --. That's helpful for the model. And then I guess a higher level question if I may, there's a lot of back and forth around the tax and budget bill in Washington last month and I think it was a great outcome for Burford, but there's some op eds that, kind of continue to talk about litigation finance as it relates to kind of the insurance industry and I'm just wondering if you can share kind of like what you think the next iteration of that debate is and if there's like a way to maybe find common ground with the other side there? Just be curious kind of your review of how July went and how that debate may continue.

好的，這很有幫助，謝謝，是的，我們只是--.這對模型很有幫助。然後我想問一個更高層次的問題，如果可以的話，上個月華盛頓就稅收和預算法案進行了很多討論，我認為這對伯福德來說是一個很好的結果，但也有一些專欄文章繼續談論訴訟融資與保險業的關係，我只是想知道您是否可以分享一下您認為下一次辯論的內容，以及是否有辦法與另一方找到共同點？我只是好奇您對七月份的回顧以及這場辯論將如何繼續。

Well, I think that there's nothing new here is the reality. When you think about what litigation finance does, it fundamentally deprives -- we're usually defendants, we usually repeat users of the justice system. It deprives them of some structural advantages that they used to enjoy. And John has written extensively on this subject, and I know a number of you have read his academic work on it, which is really seminal to the creation of the industry.

嗯，我認為這裡沒有什麼新鮮事，這就是現實。當你思考訴訟融資的作用時，它從根本上剝奪了——我們通常是被告，我們通常是司法系統的重複使用者。它剝奪了他們曾經享有的一些結構性優勢。約翰就這個主題寫了大量文章，我知道你們中有很多人都讀過他的學術著作，這些著作對於這個行業的創建確實具有開創性的意義。

And so it's not surprising that people in that position are unhappy about the loss of that structural advantage and are unhappy about the leveling of the playing field that capital on both sides of cases creates. And so we have had opposition to what we do since the very beginning of Burford's existence from sort of deep pocketed corporate repeat defendants and from the insurance industry.

因此，處於這種地位的人對於失去結構性優勢感到不滿，對於雙方資本所創造的公平競爭環境感到不滿，這並不奇怪。因此，自從伯福德成立以來，我們的所作所為就一直遭到來自財力雄厚的企業、屢次被告和保險業的反對。

I don't think that that will ever change. We have been successful throughout our life in managing that opposition because at the end of the day, the argument that they need to make is a very unappealing argument. It's basically an argument that says we want an unfair advantage and we want to make it more difficult for people to have their disputes adjudicated fairly and promptly.

我認為這種情況永遠不會改變。我們一生中都成功地應對了這種反對意見，因為到最後，他們需要提出的論點是一個非常沒有吸引力的論點。這基本上是一種論點，即我們想要獲得不公平的優勢，並且我們想要讓人們更難以公平、及時地裁決他們的糾紛。

And that's why, if you go literally around the world and listen to what governments and courts say, they say that the presence of litigation finance is a critically important element to the operation of their justice systems. Now, if you go and read, for example, the review of litigation finance done fairly recently by the English government. They say exactly that. They basically say without the presence of litigation finance capital, they wouldn't be able to operate a fair and equitable justice system for all comers. And so I don't -- I think they'll always have the noise in the system.

這就是為什麼，如果你環遊世界，聽聽政府和法院的說法，你會發現他們說訴訟融資的存在對於司法系統的運作至關重要。現在，如果你去讀一下，例如，英國政府最近對訴訟融資的審查。他們確實這麼說。他們基本上是說，如果沒有訴訟融資資本，他們就無法為所有人建立公平公正的司法體系。所以我不認為——我認為系統中總是會有噪音。

And I think we have shown that we're pretty effective at dealing with that continued noise because at the end of the day people who do make decisions about this stuff realize the importance of having this kind of equality of arms for justice systems that are important to the rule of law.

我認為我們已經證明，我們在處理持續不斷的噪音方面非常有效，因為最終對此類事情做出決定的人意識到，對於法治至關重要的司法系統而言，擁有這種平等武器的重要性。

All right, great, appreciate that. Thank you.

好的，太好了，非常感謝。謝謝。

Sure, go ahead.

當然，請說吧。

Alexander Bowers, Berenberg.

亞歷山大·鮑爾斯，貝倫貝格。

After everyone, I've had two questions if I may. The first was just on the pipeline. Are there any particular industries or geographies, particularly outside the US where you see big growth opportunities at the moment to commit some new cases? That's my first question.

各位問完之後，如果可以的話我有兩個問題。第一個剛剛在管道上。您是否認為目前在哪些特定產業或地區（尤其是美國以外的地區）存在著巨大的成長機會來承接一些新案件？這是我的第一個問題。

The second question just on something you raised at the Investor Day, which is sort of opportunities -- broader opportunities in the ecosystem of law. So things like law firm equity stakes, legal tech, alternative delivery of legal services, et cetera. Can you give us any update in terms of things you're looking to pursue, in that area? Thank you.

第二個問題是關於您在投資者日提出的問題，即法律生態系統中的更廣泛的機會。例如律師事務所股權、法律科技、法律服務的替代交付等等。您能否向我們介紹一下您在該領域希望追求的事情的最新進展？謝謝。

Sure. So in terms of the pipeline, the answer continues to be that we have, a broad and well diversified pipeline, and the reason fundamentally for that is that we work so actively with so many of the world's large global law firms, and their businesses themselves are widely diversified. So when you go to pick your favorite big law firm, you go to that law firm, it's not like that law firm specializes in, let's say energy or, hotels. They do it all. They represent every industry.

當然。因此，就人才儲備而言，答案仍然是我們擁有廣泛且多樣化的人才儲備，其根本原因是我們與世界上許多大型跨國律師事務所積極合作，他們的業務本身就非常多樣化。因此，當您去選擇自己喜歡的大型律師事務所時，您會去那家律師事務所，但這家律師事務所並不專門從事能源或酒店業。他們全都這麼做。他們代表了各行各業。

And so as a result, the flow of business that we get in is industry-wide as well. Now obviously there are there are industries that are more engaged in litigation than others, I said hotels a minute ago, we don't do a lot of hotel litigation because, hotels don't sue a lot of people. So there's certainly more litigation in the technology industry than there is in the hotel industry, just as one random example.

因此，我們獲得的業務流也是整個產業的。現在顯然有些行業比其他行業更參與訴訟，我剛才說過酒店業，我們不進行很多酒店訴訟，因為酒店不會起訴很多人。因此，舉個例子，科技業的訴訟肯定比飯店業的訴訟多。

But that, but that's not a complete answer because you do certainly have industries that have one-off kinds of litigation. Who would have thought that the US protein producers industry was as the US government found engaged in rampant price fixing. And so you wouldn't normally say, oh well, food, that's going to be a big litigation area, but it just so happens that because of that conduct there is meaningful litigation going on in that industry today.

但這並不是一個完整的答案，因為確實有些產業有一次性的訴訟。誰能想到，美國蛋白質生產產業正如美國政府所發現的那樣，存在著猖獗的價格操縱行為。所以你通常不會說，哦，食品，這將是一個很大的訴訟領域，但事實就是如此，由於這種行為，今天該行業正在進行有意義的訴訟。

In terms of geographies, the -- we are continuing to expand what we do and where we do it. We've been a global business and Jordan point pointed the pie charts out to you before, we've been a global business for years, and we happily look at things all over the world, but in some cases, we have been doing that without boots on the ground.

就地域而言，我們正在繼續擴大我們的業務範圍和地點。我們一直是一家全球性企業，喬丹之前向你們展示了餅圖，我們多年來一直是一家全球性企業，我們很高興地關注著世界各地的事物，但在某些情況下，我們一直在沒有實地考察的情況下這樣做。

And what we're doing over time is continuing to expand the places where we have boots on the ground. For example, just in the last few months, we have added people on the ground both in Korea and in Spain. We've done business in both of those markets for years, but having somebody physically present means in our view that we're likely to continue to expand the amount of business that we do in markets like that.

隨著時間的推移，我們正在做的是繼續擴大我們派遣地面部隊的地區。例如，就在過去的幾個月裡，我們在韓國和西班牙都增加了實地人員。我們已經在這兩個市場開展業務多年，但我們認為，如果有人實際在場就意味著我們可能會繼續擴大在這兩個市場的業務量。

And then in terms of the sort of the non-core stuff, law firm, equity, legal tech, and so on, yes, we are actively engaged in a regular review of potential opportunities there, and we certainly expect to continue to make progress there. We've deployed small amounts of capital already in opportunities in those sectors and we expect that to continue and grow over time.

然後就非核心內容、律師事務所、股權、法律技術等而言，是的，我們正在積極定期審查那裡的潛在機會，我們當然希望繼續在那裡取得進展。我們已經在這些領域的機會中投入了少量資本，我們預計這種投入將持續下去並隨著時間的推移而成長。

Thanks.

謝謝。

And now we've got a webcast question from Trevor Griffiths, who says page 16 of the presentation shows radically better economics and adjudication results for only a six month increase in average life. Why are your clients prepared to give up such attractive economics for such a brief acceleration in timing of outcome? John, do you want to comment on that?

現在我們接到了特雷弗·格里菲斯 (Trevor Griffiths) 的網路直播提問，他表示，演示文稿的第 16 頁顯示，平均壽命僅增加了六個月，但經濟和裁決結果卻有了顯著改善。為什麼您的客戶願意放棄如此誘人的經濟條件，而去換取結果出現時間的短暫加速？約翰，你想對此發表評論嗎？

Sure, I'm happy to. So for people's reference, you can see that adjudication wins. Has an average life of 2.9 years versus settlements 2.4 years, and I think that's what Trevor's referring to. It's a good question. The big difference between that $1 billion that we've gotten in adjudication gains with, close to a 250% ROIC versus the $2.5 billion we've gotten from settlements was very attractive but lower [IRS] and ROICs is risk as much as duration. If a case settles on the eve of trial, and we do not take the risk, that binary risk of losing the suit, it makes sense that the settlement is going to be lower than the trial outcome if you win. You're taking a discount in exchange, not just for the accelerated payment, but also the elimination of risk.

當然，我很樂意。因此，供人們參考，你可以看到裁決獲勝。平均壽命為 2.9 年，而定居壽命為 2.4 年，我認為這就是 Trevor 所指的。這是個好問題。我們從裁決收益中獲得的 10 億美元（接近 250% 的 ROIC）與我們從和解中獲得的 25 億美元之間的巨大差異非常有吸引力，但較低的 [IRS] 和 ROIC 既是風險也是持續時間。如果案件在審判前夕達成和解，而我們不承擔敗訴的二元風險，那麼和解金額低於勝訴時的審判結果也是合理的。作為交換，您獲得的是折扣，不僅是為了加速付款，也是為了消除風險。

And also be that sometimes our terms will be structured to take to take a less proportionally than if we -- if it goes to trial. If the plaintiff chooses to go to trial and risk our capital on the outcome, there's going to be additional risk premiums sometimes charged. For that decision to go to trial, whereas if they settle and eliminate the binary risk for us, then it may be cheaper for them. So there's a discount that the plaintiff is accepting from the defendant, but then there could be a further difference in the charge for our capital depending whether we take trial risk, but it's a good question.

而且，有時我們的條款會採取比審判時更少的比例。如果原告選擇進行審判並將我們的資本押注於審判結果，有時會收取額外的風險保費。對於這個決定，需要進行審判，如果他們能解決並消除我們的二元風險，對他們來說可能會更便宜。因此，原告接受了被告的折扣，但根據我們是否承擔審判風險，我們的資本收費可能會有進一步的差異，但這是一個很好的問題。

Yeah, thanks, Trevor for that. Another webcast question from Fraser Lang. With the rise of AI and utilization of personal and corporate data, how is Burford placed to evaluate and finance these types of cases?

是的，謝謝你，特雷弗。另一個來自 Fraser Lang 的網路直播問題。隨著人工智慧的興起以及個人和企業數據的利用，伯福德如何評估和資助此類案件？

Well, I think the answer is really the same way that we're placed to do anything that is touching new and evolving activity. We have a strong base of doing technology-related litigation. We've done that forever and ever. That's certainly helped by the fact that some number of us have come from technology -- firms with technology backgrounds. As many of I ran a technology media venture capital firm before starting Burford.

嗯，我認為答案實際上與我們所做的任何涉及新活動和不斷發展的活動的方式是一樣的。我們在處理與技術相關的訴訟方面擁有強大的基礎。我們永遠都是這麼做的。這當然得益於我們中的一些人來自科技公司——具有技術背景的公司。和許多人一樣，在創辦 Burford 之前，我經營一家科技媒體創投公司。

And so these are certainly things that we pursue and are interested in. Just like everything that we do though, our focus is on large, complex, generally commercial style litigation, and not so much on sort of individual use cases. So, if you have the misfortune of having some sort of individual data breach, we're not likely to be involved in those kinds of cases.

所以這些肯定是我們所追求和感興趣的事情。就像我們所做的一切一樣，我們的重點是大型、複雜、一般商業風格的訴訟，而不是個別用例。因此，如果您不幸遭遇某種個人資料洩露，我們不太可能介入此類案件。

But in terms of the overall area, there's no question that AI presents a number of interesting legal issues, and those legal issues are some of them are already being chewed on by the courts. The most interesting one right now is probably the copyright issues around the use of copyrighted material and training of large language models.

但就整個領域而言，毫無疑問，人工智慧提出了許多有趣的法律問題，其中一些法律問題已經受到法院的關注。目前最有趣的可能是圍繞著使用受版權保護的材料和訓練大型語言模型的版權問題。

And I think that as with most technological innovations, AI will be not only life changing for businesses and for all of us, but also give rise to some amount of dispute and litigation, and we're happy to be active participants in that.

我認為，與大多數技術創新一樣，人工智慧不僅會改變企業和我們所有人的生活，還會引發一定程度的爭議和訴訟，我們很高興成為其中的積極參與者。

And I'm just waiting to see if we have anything else, and I think we might have exhausted people in this August period.

我只是在等待看看我們是否還有其他事情，我認為我們可能在八月期間已經讓人們筋疲力盡了。

So thank you all very much for joining us. We appreciate it very much. We appreciate your support and interest in the business, and as usual, we're always happy to talk to you individually about any questions that you may have about performance, and we'll look forward to talking to you again in a few months.

非常感謝大家加入我們。我們非常感激。我們感謝您對業務的支持和關注，和往常一樣，我們很樂意與您單獨討論您可能對性能提出的任何問題，我們期待幾個月後再次與您交談。

This concludes today's conference call. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。您現在可以斷開連線。