DMC Global Inc (BOOM) 2026 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the DMC Global first quarter earnings call. (Operator Instructions) Please note, this conference is being recorded.

各位好，歡迎參加 DMC Global 第一季財報電話會議。(接線員指示) 請注意，本次會議將被錄音。

I will now turn the conference over to your host, Geoff High. Please go ahead.

現在我將把會議交給主持人 Geoff High。請開始。

Hello, and welcome to DMC's first quarter conference call. Presenting today are President and CEO, Jim O'Leary; and Chief Financial Officer, Eric Walter. I'd like to remind everyone that matters discussed during this call may include forward-looking statements that are based on our estimates, projections and assumptions as of today's date and are subject to risks and uncertainties that are disclosed in our filings with the SEC. Our business is subject to certain risks that could cause actual results to differ materially from those anticipated in our forward-looking statements. DMC assumes no obligation to update forward-looking statements that become untrue because of subsequent events.

各位好，歡迎參加 DMC 第一季電話會議。今天出席簡報的有總裁暨執行長 Jim O'Leary，以及財務長 Eric Walter。提醒各位，本次會議中討論的事項可能包含前瞻性陳述，係基於截至今日的估計、預測與假設，並受我們向美國證券交易委員會（SEC）申報文件中所揭露之風險與不確定性影響。本公司業務面臨若干風險，可能導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述中預期者出現重大差異。對於因後續事件而變得不再正確的前瞻性陳述，DMC 不承擔更新義務。

Today's earnings release and a related presentation on our first quarter performance are available on the Investors page of our website located at dmcglobal.com. A webcast replay of today's presentation will be available at our website shortly after the conclusion of this call.

今日的財報新聞稿以及與第一季表現相關的簡報資料，可於我們網站 dmcglobal.com 的「投資人」頁面取得。今日簡報的網路重播將於本次電話會議結束後不久在我們網站上提供。

And with that, I'll turn the call over to Jim O'Leary. Jim?

那麼，我把電話交給 Jim O'Leary。Jim？

Thanks, Geoff, and thanks to everyone for joining us today. The macroeconomic challenges that persisted throughout 2025 carried into the first quarter and continued to pressure our construction, energy and industrial end markets. In late February, the onset of the Middle East conflict intensified these headwinds, disrupting supply chains and international oil production while fueling raw material inflation, particularly for aluminum, which is by far Arcadia's biggest cost. Despite these challenges, we delivered financial results that were within our admittedly moderated expectation range. Also, despite all this macroeconomic turmoil, there are some longer-term green shoots we're hearing about that are worth mentioning, which we'll discuss later in the call.

謝謝你，Geoff，也感謝各位今天加入我們。2025 年持續存在的總體經濟挑戰延續到第一季，並持續對我們的建築、能源與工業終端市場造成壓力。2 月下旬，中東衝突爆發使這些逆風加劇，擾亂供應鏈與國際原油生產，同時推升原物料通膨，尤其是鋁；鋁是 Arcadia 迄今為止最大的成本項目。儘管面臨這些挑戰，我們仍交出落在（坦白說已下修的）預期區間內的財務結果。此外，儘管總體經濟動盪不安，我們也聽到一些值得一提的較長期正向訊號，稍後會在電話會議中討論。

First quarter consolidated sales were $135.6 million, down 15% from the 2025 first quarter and down 6% sequentially. Adjusted EBITDA attributable to DMC was $3.9 million compared with $14.4 million in last year's first quarter and a negative $1.6 million in the fourth quarter. Arcadia, our Building Products business reported first quarter sales of $56.7 million, down 14% versus the year ago quarter and flat sequentially.

第一季合併營收為 1.356 億美元，較 2025 年第一季下降 15%，較前一季下降 6%。歸屬於 DMC 的調整後 EBITDA 為 390 萬美元，去年第一季為 1,440 萬美元，第四季則為負 160 萬美元。Arcadia（我們的建築產品事業）第一季營收為 5,670 萬美元，較去年同期下降 14%，與前一季持平。

The year-over-year decline was principally due to the timing of a large mixed-use project in Southern California that benefited last year's first quarter. Demand in this year's first quarter remained soft across both commercial and residential construction markets as sharply higher aluminum prices and persistently high interest rates continue to weigh on project activity and customer demand.

年對年下滑主要是因為南加州一個大型複合用途專案的時點因素，該專案在去年第一季帶來挹注。今年第一季，商用與住宅建築市場需求仍偏疲弱，鋁價大幅上漲以及利率長期維持高檔，持續壓抑專案活動與客戶需求。

Average aluminum costs reached multiyear highs during the first quarter, increasing 64% year-over-year and 16% sequentially. A competitive bidding environment also continues to pressure pricing. First quarter adjusted EBITDA attributable to DMC was $2.3 million, down from $5.6 million in the 2025 first quarter and $2.4 million in the prior year quarter. At DynaEnergetics, our energy products business, sales were $59.5 million, down 9% year-over-year and down 14% sequentially. The declines were driven by lower product sales in North America, where well completion activity continued to decline and pricing remained competitive.

第一季平均鋁成本升至多年高點，年增 64%，季增 16%。競爭激烈的投標環境也持續對定價造成壓力。第一季歸屬於 DMC 的調整後 EBITDA 為 230 萬美元，低於 2025 年第一季的 560 萬美元以及前一年同期的 240 萬美元。在 DynaEnergetics（我們的能源產品事業）方面，營收為 5,950 萬美元，年減 9%，季減 14%。下滑主要由北美產品銷售減少所致，當地完井活動持續下降且定價仍具競爭性。

In addition, the conflict in the Middle East delayed customer shipments into that region. First quarter adjusted EBITDA was $2.7 million compared to $7.4 million in the year ago quarter and a negative $2.7 million in the prior quarter. The year-over-year decline was primarily driven by tariffs implemented in April 2025, and the sequential improvement reflects the absence of discrete AR and inventory charges in the fourth quarter. At NobelClad, our composite metal business, first quarter sales were $19.3 million, a 31% year-over-year decline driven primarily by the timing of large project shipments that benefited the prior year period as well as reduced bookings in the first half of 2025, due to uncertainty around US and reciprocal tariff policies.

此外，中東衝突也延遲了客戶對該地區的出貨。第一季調整後 EBITDA 為 270 萬美元，去年同期為 740 萬美元，前一季為負 270 萬美元。年對年下滑主要由 2025 年 4 月實施的關稅所致；而季對季改善則反映第四季未再出現一次性的應收帳款（AR）與存貨費用。在 NobelClad（我們的複合金屬事業）方面，第一季營收為 1,930 萬美元，年減 31%，主要因前一年期間受惠於大型專案出貨時點，以及 2025 年上半年因美國及對等關稅政策不確定性而導致接單減少。

Sequentially, sales increased 9%, supported by initial deliveries on a large international petrochemical project. We expect additional shipments from this project throughout the remainder of the year. NobelClad's adjusted EBITDA was $1.9 million compared with $5.4 million in the year ago quarter and $2.1 million in the previous quarter. Order backlog at the end of the first quarter increased 12% sequentially to $70.3 million, marking the highest level in more than 15 years.

就季對季而言，營收成長 9%，主要受一項大型國際石化專案的初期交付所支撐。我們預期該專案在今年剩餘期間仍將持續出貨。NobelClad 的調整後 EBITDA 為 190 萬美元，去年同期為 540 萬美元，前一季為 210 萬美元。第一季末在手訂單（order backlog）較前一季增加 12% 至 7,030 萬美元，創 15 年以上新高。

Now I'll turn it over to Eric for more detail on our first quarter results and a look at second quarter guidance. Eric?

接下來我把時間交給 Eric，請他更詳細說明第一季結果，並提供第二季財測展望。Eric？

Thank you, Jim. As previously noted, continued macroeconomic pressures and the conflict in the Middle East slowed activity in our core markets and weighed on our first quarter profitability. Our consolidated adjusted EBITDA margin before allocations of non-controlling interests, or NCI, was 4%, down from 11.4% in last year's first quarter, but up from breakeven in the fourth quarter. Arcadia's first quarter adjusted EBITDA margin before NCI was 6.9% down from 14.2% in last year's first quarter and 7.1% in the fourth quarter. Competitive pricing pressure, high aluminum input costs and lower absorption of fixed manufacturing overhead placed downward pressure on margin during the quarter.

謝謝你，Jim。如先前所述，持續的總體經濟壓力以及中東衝突，放緩了我們核心市場的活動，並拖累第一季獲利能力。我們的合併調整後 EBITDA 利潤率（在未分攤非控制權益，或 NCI 之前）為 4%，低於去年第一季的 11.4%，但高於第四季的損益兩平。Arcadia 第一季調整後 EBITDA 利潤率（NCI 前）為 6.9%，低於去年第一季的 14.2%，也低於第四季的 7.1%。競爭性的定價壓力、鋁材投入成本高企，以及固定製造費用吸收不足，使本季利潤率承受下行壓力。

Dyna's adjusted EBITDA margin was 4.6% versus 11.3% in the first quarter of last year and up from a negative 4% in the fourth quarter. The decline versus last year relates principally to the impact of tariffs and pricing pressure, while the sequential increase reflects the discrete AR and inventory charges in the fourth quarter. At NobelClad, adjusted EBITDA margin was 9.8% versus 19.2% a year ago, and 11.9% in the fourth quarter. The year-over-year decline reflects the timing of a large project in China that benefited last year's first quarter, while the sequential decline reflects a less favorable project mix in this year's first quarter. First quarter SG&A expense was $24.6 million or 18.1% of sales versus 17.8% of sales in the year ago first quarter and 20.7% of sales in the fourth quarter.

Dyna 的調整後 EBITDA 利潤率為 4.6%，相較去年第一季的 11.3% 下滑，但較第四季的負 4% 回升。相較去年下滑主要與關稅影響及定價壓力有關；而季對季上升則反映第四季的一次性應收帳款與存貨費用。在 NobelClad，調整後 EBITDA 利潤率為 9.8%，去年同期為 19.2%，第四季為 11.9%。年對年下滑反映去年第一季受惠於中國一項大型專案的時點因素；而季對季下滑則反映今年第一季專案組合較不利。第一季銷售、一般及管理費用（SG&A）為 2,460 萬美元，占營收 18.1%，去年第一季為占營收 17.8%，第四季為占營收 20.7%。

The sequential decline principally relates to the discrete AR charges at Dyna in the fourth quarter. First quarter adjusted net loss attributable to DMC was $5.7 million, while adjusted loss per share attributable to DMC was $0.28. With respect to liquidity, we ended the first quarter with cash and cash equivalents of approximately $32 million. Total debt was $54 million, up slightly from our 2025 year-end due to seasonality. Net debt at quarter end was $22.4 million.

季對季下降主要與 Dyna 在第四季的一次性應收帳款費用有關。第一季歸屬於 DMC 的調整後淨損為 570 萬美元，而歸屬於 DMC 的調整後每股虧損為 0.28 美元。就流動性而言，我們在第一季末的現金及約當現金約為 3,200 萬美元。總負債為 5,400 萬美元，較 2025 年底略增，主要因季節性因素。季末淨負債為 2,240 萬美元。

And now on to guidance for the second quarter. We expect sales will be in the range of $148 million to $158 million, while adjusted EBITDA attributable to DMC is expected in a range of $6 million to $8 million. We expect the anticipated sequential improvement will be driven by demand growth across all 3 of our businesses. At DynaEnergetics, we're seeing stronger order activity developing in both our international and North American markets. Arcadia is coming off a seasonally softer first quarter, so we expect to see a modest pickup in activity there.

接下來談第二季的財測指引。我們預期銷售額將落在1.48億至1.58億美元之間，而歸屬於DMC的調整後EBITDA預期將落在600萬至800萬美元之間。我們預期，這項按季改善將由我們三大業務的需求成長所帶動。在DynaEnergetics方面，我們看到國際與北美市場的訂單活動都在增強。Arcadia第一季因季節性因素較為疲弱，因此我們預期其活動將小幅回升。

And in NobelClad, we're anticipating higher shipment volumes tied to a large international petrochemical project. I should note our guidance assumes a relatively consistent operating environment as we are not factoring in additional supply chain disruptions internationally, which could impact DynaEnergetics shipments into the Middle East, affect raw material availability and order timing at NobelClad or further increase aluminum input costs at Arcadia. As a reminder, our guidance is heavily impacted by macroeconomic conditions, including evolving tariff policies, particularly in our core energy and construction markets. Our guidance is subject to change either upward or downward as these highly volatile inputs evolve in 2026.

而在NobelClad方面，我們預期與一項大型國際石化專案相關的出貨量將提高。我需要指出，我們的指引假設營運環境相對一致，因為我們未將國際上額外的供應鏈中斷納入考量；這類中斷可能影響DynaEnergetics對中東的出貨、影響NobelClad的原料可得性與接單時點，或進一步推升Arcadia的鋁材投入成本。提醒一下，我們的指引深受總體經濟狀況影響，包括不斷演變的關稅政策，尤其是在我們核心的能源與建築市場。隨著這些高度波動的投入因素在2026年持續變化，我們的指引可能上修或下修。

Now I'll turn the call back to Jim.

現在我把電話交回給Jim。

Thanks, Eric. After a prolonged period of challenging macroeconomic conditions, we're hearing early indication from peers and competitors based on their recent public statements, the demand in several of our key area excuse me, our key end markets may be improving. In DynaEnergetics oilfield service market, several leading industry players have recently noted that the prospect of higher for longer oil prices are supporting plans for increased drilling and completion activity in North America's onshore oil and gas sector.

謝謝，Eric。在經歷一段漫長且充滿挑戰的總體經濟環境之後，根據同業與競爭對手近期公開發言的早期跡象，我們聽到在我們幾個關鍵領域——抱歉，是我們關鍵終端市場——的需求可能正在改善。在DynaEnergetics的油田服務市場，數家領先的產業業者近期指出，「油價高檔維持更久」的前景正支撐北美陸上油氣領域增加鑽井與完井活動的計畫。

At the same time, expanding interest in enhanced geothermal systems, which leverage technologies developed by the oil and gas industry, represent a long-term opportunity for the business. At NobelClad, our order backlog is at the highest level in more than 15 years, and we're seeing a number of leading positive indicators, including increased spending by the Navy on enhanced naval readiness and potential demand tied to industrial infrastructure repair and reconstruction in the Middle East.

同時，對增強型地熱系統（Enhanced Geothermal Systems）的興趣正在擴大；該系統運用由油氣產業發展出的技術，代表此業務的一項長期機會。在NobelClad方面，我們的訂單積壓量處於超過15年來的最高水準，且我們看到多項正向領先指標，包括海軍為提升海軍戰備而增加支出，以及可能與中東工業基礎設施修復與重建相關的需求。

More broadly and also harder to quantify, the increasing narratives around global energy security and greater spending on both defense and energy infrastructure can only be positives as you look much further out for two of our businesses. Nearer term, Arcadia is tracking positive trends in the Architectural Billings Index, which is a 12-month leading indicator of commercial construction activity.

更廣泛而言、也更難量化的是，圍繞全球能源安全的論述升溫，以及在國防與能源基礎設施上的支出增加，從更長遠的角度看，對我們其中兩項業務只能是正面因素。較近的時間範圍內，Arcadia正追蹤建築師計費指數（Architectural Billings Index）的正向趨勢；該指數是商業建築活動的12個月領先指標。

In March, the index for our primary Western US market rose above 50 for the first time since December 2024, meaning more firms are reporting increased billings than declining billings. While we expect continued near-term volatility across many of our markets, these indicators are encouraging and suggest that capital spending may be improving over the next several quarters.

3月，我們主要的美國西部市場之指數自2024年12月以來首次升至50以上，代表回報計費增加的公司多於回報計費下滑的公司。雖然我們預期多個市場在短期內仍將持續波動，但這些指標令人鼓舞，並顯示未來幾季資本支出可能正在改善。

In the meantime, we remain focused on the disciplined execution and tight cost controls as we position DMC for the future. I want to thank our employees for their continued dedication and hard work.

與此同時，我們仍專注於嚴謹的執行與嚴格的成本控管，以便為DMC的未來做好布局。我要感謝我們的員工持續的投入與辛勤工作。

And with that, we'll open the call for your questions.

接下來，我們開放提問。

(Operator Instructions)

（接線員指示）

Ken Newman, KeyBanc Capital Markets.

Ken Newman，KeyBanc Capital Markets。

Nice to hear that we're expecting sales to improve sequentially across all three of the businesses. As I think about the second quarter sales guide, is there any color on helping us think about where the largest sequential increases come? It sounds like maybe there's some pushouts in DynaEnergetics. How much of the, is there a catch-up there? Or maybe a little bit of help on maybe Arcadia just as well, just given that the comp there is pretty easy on a year-over-year basis.

很高興聽到我們預期三大業務的銷售都會按季改善。當我思考第二季的銷售指引時，能否提供一些說明，幫助我們判斷最大的按季增幅會來自哪裡？聽起來DynaEnergetics可能有一些遞延。其中有多少是補回（catch-up）？或者也請談談Arcadia，畢竟就年對年來看，那邊的比較基期相當容易。

Yeah, Ken, I think just looking at each one of the businesses, we do expect that there's going to be improvements quarter-over-quarter at all 3 of those, like we said. The NobelClad business is expecting to have a pretty significant ramp-up in the second quarter for this international petrochemical project. So that's where you're going to see a lot of the increase for Q2.

是的，Ken，我想就各個業務來看，我們確實預期這三項業務都會如同我們所說出現季對季改善。NobelClad業務預期第二季會因這個國際石化專案而出現相當顯著的拉升。因此，你會在第二季看到相當多的增量來自那裡。

And then we talked a little bit about some ongoing challenges with commodity prices, particularly within aluminum for Arcadia. But I'm curious if you could just talk a little bit about price cost impacts and how you're expecting that to trend through the second quarter? And maybe any incremental color on what you're seeing from the tariff side of the business? I know Canada has been a challenge, but any, what are your customers saying there in terms of tariffs?

另外，我們也談到一些大宗商品價格的持續挑戰，特別是Arcadia的鋁價。但我想請你談談價格與成本的影響，以及你預期這在第二季會如何走勢？以及關於關稅面向，是否能再補充一些資訊？我知道加拿大一直是個挑戰，但就關稅而言，你們的客戶那邊怎麼說？

So margins for Arcadia and the margin comps are going to continue to be challenged. A lot of the aluminum pricing that's happened happened post the Iranian conflict, and that's going to carry forward. And all of our competitors, particularly on large projects, are dealing with the same issue. So pricing, going to get bailed out by pricing. We are seeing a little bit more traction, particularly if we're able to serve your customer service and your delivery times are up to where we're getting to again at Arcadia.

Arcadia的毛利率以及毛利率的比較基期將持續面臨壓力。許多鋁價的上漲發生在伊朗衝突之後，而這將延續下去。我們所有競爭對手，特別是在大型專案上，都在面對同樣的問題。所以，價格——不會靠提價就能被救回來。我們確實看到一些進展，特別是當我們能夠提供——你的客戶服務與交期表現回到我們在Arcadia正逐步恢復的水準時。

But I'd expect margins to still be challenged for at least the next quarter or 2 at Arcadia as the aluminum issue works through. And if it stays high, we'll continue to have challenges through the year. But when the market improves eventually and contractors start breaking ground, projects get, larger projects start getting commissioned, which is where we're probably having most of the margin pressure. We could get some relief, but you need a healthier building market for that. And on tariffs, we did not obviously book anything and we didn't put it in our guidance or expecting it, but we have applied for all the same tariff reliefs and rebates that we're entitled to.

但我預期Arcadia的毛利率至少在接下來一到兩季仍會承壓，因為鋁的問題需要時間消化。如果鋁價維持高檔，我們今年仍會持續面臨挑戰。不過當市場最終改善、承包商開始動工、專案——大型專案開始啟動（commissioned）時（這也是我們目前毛利率壓力最大的地方），我們可能會獲得一些緩解，但前提是建築市場要更健康。至於關稅，我們顯然沒有入帳任何金額，也沒有把它納入我們的指引或預期之中，但我們已申請所有我們有權取得的關稅減免與退稅。

Dyna, in particular, is expecting several million, but it's so difficult to forecast. The mechanics and the timing are virtually impossible. But that could be a bluebird that flies in the window. We just have no idea when.

尤其是Dyna，預期可能有數百萬美元，但實在很難預測。相關機制與時點幾乎不可能掌握。但那可能會是一個意外之喜（bluebird）飛進窗戶。我們只是完全不知道會在什麼時候發生。

Maybe if I could just sneak one more in here. It was good to hear about the rumblings about the potentially improving oil and gas activity here in the States. As you talk to your customers, do you get a sense of how quickly they can move on potential orders if they feel comfortable with the CapEx spend? And where would you start to see that initial improvement as it flows through on Dyna? Would it be primarily just on the drilling side?

如果我可以再偷偷問一個問題。聽到美國這邊油氣活動可能改善的風聲，這很不錯。當你們與客戶交流時，你們是否能感受到：如果他們對資本支出（CapEx）更有信心，他們能多快就潛在訂單採取行動？而在Dyna方面，這種初步改善會先從哪裡反映出來？會主要先出現在鑽井端嗎？

Or would you get further or maybe a sooner indication on order improvement?

或者你們會在訂單改善上看到更進一步、或更早的訊號？

Well, we have very short lead times there in every environment. So it's nothing that's going to impact dramatically the next quarter. And if you look at the guidance from everybody from Halliburton to one of the peers that released today, nobody is thinking the second quarter is going to have real huge improvement. I think most people, and again, it's all the suspects that I just ticked off and everybody who's released before us, they're all talking about as you go into the back half of the year, if you listen to the administration, all these tankers are turning around and heading to the United States and a great many of them are, tracking tanker activity is pretty easy to do, and it's pretty granular. But that doesn't start to help, and that won't translate into really any big bump in onshore activity until after this upcoming quarter.

嗯，我們在各種環境下的交期都非常短。所以這不會在下一季造成顯著影響。而且如果你看看從哈里伯頓到今天發布的某家同業的指引，沒有人認為第二季會有非常大的改善。我想大多數人——同樣地，就是我剛才點到的那些公司，以及所有在我們之前發布的公司——都在談，當你進入下半年時，如果你聽行政當局的說法，這些油輪都在掉頭、朝美國前進，而且其中很多確實如此；追蹤油輪動態其實很容易，而且可以做到非常細緻。但這還不會開始帶來幫助，而且要等到接下來這一季之後，才會真正轉化為陸上活動的明顯回升。

We're not expecting any major pickup. But if it happens, we've got the capacity, and we've got the ability to turn things very quickly. I mean, we operate on very short lead times there.

我們不預期會有任何重大回升。但如果真的發生，我們有產能，也有能力非常快速地把事情轉起來。我的意思是，我們那邊的運作交期非常短。

(Operator Instructions)

(接線員指示)

Gerry Sweeney, ROTH Capital Partners.

Gerry Sweeney，ROTH Capital Partners。

Sticking with DynaEnergetics. Obviously, I think in the past, you've talked about some new product innovations and even some automation. I just wanted to see where that stood and where that could play into potential pickup in the second half of this year?

延續談 DynaEnergetics。很明顯，我想過去你們談過一些新產品創新，甚至一些自動化。我想了解目前進展到哪裡，以及這可能如何帶動今年下半年的潛在回升？

Well, it's already baked into the guidance and already baked into kind of how we look at the balance of the year. We're getting the savings from the automation that we've been talking about for the last, at least the last three or four quarters. And it's not really new products. It's more value engineering and product reengineering for cost. We expect, and again, it's in the guidance.

嗯，這些其實已經反映在指引裡，也已經反映在我們對今年剩餘期間的整體看法中。我們正在取得我們過去至少三到四個季度一直在談的自動化所帶來的節省。而且這不太算是新產品。更多是價值工程與為了降低成本而進行的產品再設計。我們預期——同樣地，這也都在指引裡。

It's in the sequential improvement that we just chatted about. And it's in future years as well. We've got a pretty meaningful slate of cost outs that carry forward into this year and then into '27 as well and it's from not less new products than it is reengineered existing products. The only thing it would be new products, but I don't know if it's necessarily a new product, just a new application, new end market would be geothermal, where we do expect some business this year. And we're really hoping that, that ends up being a big growth market in future years.

這也包含在我們剛才談到的逐季改善之中。未來年度也同樣如此。我們有一套相當有意義的降本計畫，會延續到今年，並且也會延續到 2027 年；這與其說是推出較少的新產品，不如說是把既有產品重新設計。唯一可能算新產品的——但我不確定是否一定算新產品——更像是新的應用、新的終端市場，就是地熱；我們確實預期今年會有一些業務。而我們也非常希望它在未來幾年會成為一個大型成長市場。

And for, it's not in our press release. It is talked about in public, but the only renewable energy that really survived completely unscathed, in fact, came out better from Trump's One Big Beautiful Bill was geothermal. And there's a tremendous amount of excitement and enthusiasm for it. It pairs very well with data centers, and it fits perfectly with our product and a lot of the applications that fracking has been doing for the last decade.

另外，這不在我們的新聞稿裡。雖然公開場合有談到，但在川普的「One Big Beautiful Bill」中，唯一完全毫髮無傷、甚至結果更好的再生能源其實是地熱。大家對此有非常高的興奮與熱情。它和資料中心的搭配非常好，也非常契合我們的產品，以及壓裂在過去十年所做的許多應用。

I'm just going to switch over to geothermal. That was my next question. And I mean, listen, it is the only baseload renewable energy, true baseload renewable energy out there. So I think that's part of the demand aspect of it. But just speaking of demand, do you have visibility to the opportunity, what's going on with enhanced geothermal in terms of potential market size and when the opportunity may start to maybe show up in the numbers?

我就切換到地熱。那正是我的下一個問題。而且你看，地熱確實是唯一的基載型再生能源，真正的基載型再生能源。所以我想這也是需求面的部分原因。但談到需求，你們對增強型地熱（enhanced geothermal）的機會是否有能見度？就潛在市場規模而言，以及這個機會可能何時開始在數字上反映出來？

We'll book sales this year. It will be, it won't be meaningful enough where we'll break it out. And Gerry, I'd really have to direct you to some of the industry literature Wood Mackenzie, if you look at have been, there's a couple of really, really good things in the public marketplace from companies that have gone public recently. So I direct you to them, and that's kind of what we're hanging our hat on. But we don't have to put in a lot of capital.

我們今年會認列一些銷售。但規模不會大到我們會把它單獨拆出來揭露。而且 Gerry，我可能得請你參考一些產業資料，例如 Wood Mackenzie；如果你去看，公開市場上也有幾份非常、非常好的資料，來自一些最近才上市的公司。所以我會建議你去看那些資料，那也是我們主要依據的方向。但我們不需要投入很多資本。

We're not making major additions to infrastructure. We're just redirecting some of our engineering resources and our customer service resources to service a market that we're really excited about. But we're not basing anything on enormous numbers going forward. We're just trying to meet the demand that's right in front of us. And by the way, utility-grade solar did okay coming out of the bill as well.

我們不會大幅新增基礎設施。我們只是把部分工程資源與客戶服務資源重新導向，去服務一個我們非常看好的市場。但我們並沒有把未來建立在非常龐大的數字假設之上。我們只是想滿足眼前的需求。順帶一提，公用事業級太陽能在這項法案之後表現也還不錯。

I have to say that because I'm on the Board of a utility grade solar company. But I am rooting more for geothermal these days.

我得這麼說，因為我在一家公用事業級太陽能公司的董事會任職。但最近我更支持地熱。

And I get what you're saying, I'll go back and look at the material. Just sticking with Dyna. Obviously, you've got very good manufacturing. You've got a great product. It reduces the need for manpower on the drill pad, et cetera.

我理解你的意思，我會回去看看那些資料。再回到 Dyna。很明顯，你們的製造能力非常好。產品也很出色。它能降低井場對人力的需求等等。

And if there is a quick push back to maybe some, or speed up in drilling and even completions, do you think you're potentially better positioned than some of your competitors to meet that demand just because of your foundation?

如果鑽井、甚至完井活動出現快速反彈或加速，你認為你們是否可能因為既有基礎而比一些競爭對手更有利於滿足那樣的需求？

Yes, but not necessarily for we have some really good competitors in North America. There's a lot of capacity. That's why pricing has been so challenging. Why I think we're better positioned than many. And one of the things you didn't mention is energy security and all the things that are being talked about after this Iranian conflict.

是的，但不完全是因為——我們在北美也有一些非常強的競爭對手。市場上有很多產能。這也是為什麼定價一直這麼具挑戰性。我認為我們比許多公司更有利的原因之一，還有你剛才沒提到的，就是能源安全，以及伊朗衝突之後大家正在討論的所有相關議題。

Well, I'm very excited about geothermal. I think if you look at some of the public stuff, and I direct you towards Fervo filed an IPO, their material is fantastic, and we're excited for them. But when you look at all the discussion about energy security, I think there's a general recognition now that it's not going to be renewable or. It's not going to be fossil fuels or. It has to be everything.

我對地熱非常興奮。我想如果你看一些公開資料，我會建議你去看 Fervo 申報 IPO 的文件，他們的資料非常精彩，我們也為他們感到振奮。但當你看到所有關於能源安全的討論時，我認為現在普遍的認知是：不會是再生能源或……也不會是化石燃料或……必須是全部都要。

I saw a guy named Ernie Moniz, who was the Department of Energy head under Clinton. I saw him in a presentation not long ago where, and he was under clearly a democratic, very pro-renewable administration. He said we need everything. And this is before the Iranian conflict. There was an article in the journal last week where there's at least 6, and I thought it was more countries that historically haven't done fracking.

我看到一位叫 Ernie Moniz 的人，他曾在柯林頓政府時期擔任能源部長。不久前我在一場簡報中看到他——而且他顯然是在一個民主黨、非常支持再生能源的政府之下任職。他說我們需要所有能源。而那是在伊朗衝突之前。上週《華爾街日報》有一篇文章提到，至少有 6 個——我原本以為更多——歷來沒有進行壓裂的國家。

There's a lot of countries that have fracking resources that are looking at whether or not they should be getting a lot more serious about that. Where I think Dyna is particularly well positioned is we have an international operation that could be a little challenge making shipments into the Middle East or some of the other parts that does business, particularly in Asia because of the supply chain issues and some of the challenges being created by that conflict. But long term, if the rest of the world gets serious about energy security and it's everything, meaning not just renewable and not just fossil fuels, that's going to be great for us. That won't be next quarter. It might not be this year.

有很多擁有壓裂資源的國家，正在評估是否應該更認真地推進這件事。我認為 Dyna 特別有利的一點是，我們有國際營運；由於供應鏈問題以及這場衝突帶來的一些挑戰，向中東或其他一些地區出貨（特別是在亞洲有業務的地區）可能會有些困難。但長期來看，如果世界其他地區開始認真看待能源安全，而且是「全部都要」——也就是不只是再生能源、也不只是化石燃料——那對我們會非常有利。但那不會在下一季發生。甚至可能不會在今年發生。

But longer term, if people are more focused on energy security, recognize that you have to look at the limitations of every possible source and you have a basket of things, we're not going to be talking about getting rid of fossil fuels by 2030, 2035 or 2050. And that's always been ridiculous, and I think people are recognizing that now.

但從較長期來看，如果人們更聚焦於能源安全，並認知到你必須檢視每一種可能來源的限制、而且需要一個多元組合，那麼我們就不會再談論要在2030、2035或2050年之前消除化石燃料。那一直都很荒謬，我想大家現在也開始意識到了。

Got it. One more question and just speaking about security. The naval readiness program under NobelClad. Any details on that? Or is this one specific program that we can watch or track?

了解。再問一個問題，談到安全議題。NobelClad 旗下的海軍戰備計畫。有任何細節可以分享嗎？或者這是一個我們可以關注或追蹤的特定計畫？

Or is this a multitude of just increased shipbuilding or some other aspect?

還是說這其實是多項措施，例如整體造船增加或其他面向？

It could be a multitude of increased shipping across the board. What we're talking specifically about and what we've got factored into less of an impact this year, but more going into next year. Just going from 1 nuclear sub to 2 is a really big deal. If you look at what the budgets and what Trump and HF and others have talked about under naval readiness, it's a lot more than 1 or 2 subs that they're talking about increasing. The challenge is, and again, not being a show for the Wall Street Journal, but if you look at, and it's been in the Atlantic.

它可能是整體航運／造船在各方面的多項增加。我們具體在談的、以及我們在今年納入的影響較小、但明年影響會更大的部分是：僅僅從1艘核潛艦增加到2艘，就是非常大的變化。如果你看預算，以及川普、HF 和其他人在海軍戰備之下談到的內容，他們談的增加不只是1或2艘潛艦而已。挑戰在於——再次強調，這不是要上《華爾街日報》的節目——但如果你去看，而且《大西洋月刊》也有報導。

It's been in all the foreign relations magazines, too. The challenge is if you go to Newport News, Groton, the new shipyard in Philadelphia, naval readiness is being hampered by just people. You can't build the stuff fast. If, and the Noble people must be starting to hate me because every time I see one of these articles, I forward it to them and ask why you can't be more. And the answer is always the same.

各種外交關係類雜誌也都有提到。挑戰是，如果你去紐波特紐斯（Newport News）、格羅頓（Groton）、費城的新船廠，海軍戰備正被「人力」所拖累。你沒辦法那麼快把東西造出來。如果——Noble 的人一定開始討厭我了，因為每次我看到這類文章，我都會轉寄給他們，問他們為什麼不能做得更多。而答案永遠都一樣。

It's a question of the constraints and the constraints are all manpower. And that will fix itself. But again, it won't fix itself by next quarter or the end of this year. I do think even, if peace breaks out around the world, the issues around naval readiness, particularly with concerns in Asia, a heightened awareness of what's happened with the Straits of Hormuz, this is never going away and in the long term, be a good thing for us.

這是產能限制的問題，而限制全部都在人力。這會自行改善。但同樣地，它不會在下個季度或今年底之前就改善。我確實認為，即便全球出現和平，海軍戰備的議題——特別是對亞洲的擔憂、以及對荷姆茲海峽（Straits of Hormuz）事件的高度警覺——這些都不會消失，長期來看會對我們是好事。

No, there's huge, huge spending Pacific defense initiative is one out that's out there. But super helpful. I appreciate the longer view on that perspective.

沒錯，太平洋防衛倡議（Pacific Defense Initiative）等方面的支出非常、非常龐大，這是其中一項。但這非常有幫助。我很感謝你從更長期的角度來看這件事。

And this now concludes our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the floor back over to Jim O'Leary for closing comments.

現在問答環節到此結束。我想把時間交還給 Jim O'Leary 做結語。

Terry, other than thanks for your patience. We know it's been a difficult year. There's an old saying. And I don't know if it's one of the immutable laws of nature, but things can't go up until they stop going down. And it does feel like this quarter, and I'm not, I'm hoping we make next quarter.

Terry，除了感謝你的耐心之外。我們知道這是一個艱難的一年。有句老話說。我不知道這算不算自然界不可變的定律之一，但事情不會上升，直到它們停止下跌。而這一季確實有那種感覺；我不是——我希望我們能撐到下一季。

I'm hoping things continue to look a little bit cheerier. But once things start going down, you have enhanced prospects for them going up. We're not reveling in all the insecurity around the world. But for a company that's tied to energy infrastructure, older technologies around fossil fuel, the naval readiness we talked about, a world that's what we're living in, those are all positives for us. So just the fact that things are a little bit cheerier longer term out is something we haven't been able to talk about before.

我希望情況能繼續看起來更樂觀一些。但一旦事情開始下跌，你反而會有更高的機會看到它回升。我們並不以全球各地的不安為樂。但對一家與能源基礎設施、與化石燃料等較舊技術、以及我們談到的海軍戰備相關的公司而言，在我們所處的這個世界裡，這些對我們都是正面因素。所以，僅僅是長期來看情況稍微更明朗一些，這是我們以前沒辦法談的。

And not specifically a next quarter or the quarter after thing. But Arcadia, and I do a lot of other things in the building industry. This is still a pretty gloomy year. The affordability and the interest rate issues, nothing's changed. But they do feel like they stopped getting worse.

而且這不是特別針對下一季或再下一季的事情。但 Arcadia——我在建築產業也做很多其他事情——今年仍然相當陰鬱。這仍是一個相當低迷的一年。可負擔性與利率問題，沒有任何改變。但確實感覺它們至少不再惡化。

And again, things aren't going up until they stop going down, and they do feel like they've at least stabilized. And if you remember this time last year, we've been through our third or fourth President at Arcadia. We destabilized it badly with integration. And we were struggling with some supply chain challenges and some self-inflicted issues where they definitely stabilized. Jim Schladen and a couple of new team members we brought there are doing a great job.

再說一次，事情不會上升，直到它們停止下跌；而現在確實感覺至少已經穩住了。如果你還記得去年這個時候，Arcadia 已經換到第三或第四任總裁了。我們在整合上把它嚴重搞得不穩定。我們也在供應鏈挑戰，以及一些自找的問題上掙扎；而這些現在確實都穩定下來了。Jim Schladen 和我們帶進去的幾位新團隊成員做得非常好。

Things have at least stabilized, and I think it's in the press release, but the fact that the AI index prepped above 50 for the first time or hit 50 for the first time in over a year, it's a real positive when you look further out. And we're seeing that. That doesn't help with the affordability issues that the contractors are dealing with. It doesn't help with interest rates. It would have been nice if the Fed gave a little bit more promise for interest rates going down.

事情至少已經穩定下來；而且我想新聞稿裡也有提到，AI 指數（AI index）在一年多來首次升到50以上、或首次達到50，從更長期來看是很大的正面訊號。我們也看到了這點。但這無法解決承包商正在面對的可負擔性問題。也無法解決利率問題。如果聯準會能更明確釋出一些利率下調的承諾，那當然會更好。

But until the inflationary picture is a little bit better, we won't expect that. But even at Arcadia, which isn't necessarily going to benefit from energy security, naval readiness, some of the bigger themes we talked about. But Arcadia, things have stopped going down. The team there has done a great job of stabilizing things. We've attracted back some of the team members that had left the company and we were really top-notch salespeople.

但在通膨情勢更好一些之前，我們不會期待那件事發生。不過即便是 Arcadia——它未必能從能源安全、海軍戰備、以及我們談到的一些更大主題中受益。但在 Arcadia，事情已經停止下跌。那裡的團隊在穩定局面上做得非常好。我們也把一些離開公司的團隊成員吸引回來，他們是非常頂尖的業務人才。

So again, it's not going to be next quarter, may not be this year, but one of our peers talked about 2027 being a year when they expect things to really start kicking in, and I hope that's true for us, too. But when things stop going down, the prospects of them going up were a lot better. And hopefully, that's the case for us. So thanks to our investors. Thanks to the employees who are slogging through this every day, and we'll talk to you next quarter.

所以再說一次，這不會是下一季，可能也不會是今年；但我們的一家同業提到，他們預期2027年會是事情真正開始發力的一年，我也希望我們也是如此。但當事情停止下跌，回升的機會就會大得多。希望我們也是這樣。所以，感謝我們的投資人。感謝每天都在辛苦撐過這段時間的員工，我們下個季度再聊。

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your participation. This does conclude today's teleconference. You may disconnect your lines and have a wonderful day.

各位女士、先生，感謝各位的參與。今天的電話會議到此結束。您可以掛斷電話，祝您有美好的一天。