Beeline Holdings Inc (BLNE) 2022 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day, everyone, and welcome to the Eastside Distilling Fourth Quarter 2022 Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) Please note, this event is being recorded.

大家好，歡迎來到 Eastside Distilling 2022 年第四季度收益電話會議。 （操作員說明）請注意，正在記錄此事件。

I would now like to turn the conference over to Amy Brassard, Corporate Secretary.

我現在想將會議轉交給公司秘書 Amy Brassard。

Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us today to discuss Eastside Distilling's financial results for the fourth quarter and year-end 2022. I'm Amy Brassard, Eastside's Corporate Secretary, and I'll be your moderator for today's call.

謝謝。大家下午好，感謝你們今天加入我們討論 Eastside Distilling 第四季度和 2022 年底的財務業績。我是 Eastside 公司秘書 Amy Brassard，我將主持今天的電話會議。

Joining us on today's call to discuss these results are Mr. Geoffrey Gwin, the company's Chief Executive Officer and Chief Financial Officer; Ms. Amy Lancer, Eastside's Chief Commercial Officer; Ms. Tiffany Milton, Eastside's Controller; and Mr. [Bruce Wells], Craft Controller. Following their remarks, we will open the call to your questions.

公司首席執行官兼首席財務官 Geoffrey Gwin 先生與我們一起參加今天的電話會議，討論這些結果； Eastside首席商務官Amy Lancer女士； Eastside 財務總監 Tiffany Milton 女士；和工藝控制器 [Bruce Wells] 先生。在他們發表評論之後，我們將開始對您的問題進行通話。

Now before we begin with prepared remarks, we submit for the record the following statement. Certain matters discussed on the conference call today by the management of Eastside Distilling may be forward-looking statements within the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 as amended, Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934 as amended. And such forward-looking statements are made pursuant to the safe harbor provisions of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995.

現在，在我們開始準備好的發言之前，我們提交以下聲明以供記錄。 Eastside Distilling 管理層在今天的電話會議上討論的某些事項可能是經修訂的 1933 年證券法第 27A 條和經修訂的 1934 年證券交易法第 21E 條含義範圍內的前瞻性陳述。此類前瞻性陳述是根據 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》的安全港條款作出的。

The forward-looking statements describe future expectations, plans, results or strategies and are generally preceded by the words such as may, future, plan or planned, will or should, expected, anticipates, draft, eventually or projected. Listeners are cautioned that such statements are subject to a multitude of risks and uncertainties that could cause future circumstances, events or results to differ materially from those projected in the forward-looking statements.

前瞻性陳述描述了未來的預期、計劃、結果或戰略，通常以可能、未來、計劃或計劃、將或應該、預期、預期、草案、最終或預計等詞語開頭。聽眾請注意，此類陳述存在多種風險和不確定性，可能導致未來情況、事件或結果與前瞻性陳述中預測的情況、事件或結果存在重大差異。

Such matters involve risks and uncertainties that may cause actual results to differ materially include, but are not limited to, the company's acceptance and the company's products in the market, success in obtaining new customers, success in product development, ability to execute the business model and strategic plans, success in integrating acquired entities and assets, ability to obtain capital, ability to continue its going concern and all of the risks and related information described from time to time in the company's filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including the financial statements and related information pertaining to the company's annual report on Form 10-K for the year ended December 31, 2022, filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

此類事項涉及可能導致實際結果存在重大差異的風險和不確定性，包括但不限於公司對市場的接受度和公司產品、成功獲得新客戶、產品開發成功、執行商業模式的能力和戰略計劃、成功整合收購的實體和資產、獲得資本的能力、持續經營的能力以及公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中不時描述的所有風險和相關信息，包括財務向美國證券交易委員會提交的截至 2022 年 12 月 31 日止年度的 10-K 表格年度報告的報表和相關信息。

Now with that said, I'd like to turn the call over to Geoffrey Gwin. Geoffrey, please proceed.

話雖如此，我想把電話轉給 Geoffrey Gwin。杰弗裡，請繼續。

Welcome to Eastside's Fourth Quarter 2022 Earnings Conference Call. I'm Geoffrey Gwin, the Interim CEO and CFO, and appreciate your interest in our company.

歡迎來到 Eastside 的 2022 年第四季度收益電話會議。我是臨時首席執行官兼首席財務官 Geoffrey Gwin，感謝您對我們公司的關注。

2022 was a transformational year for Eastside Distilling. The business we have today is very different from that of last year or the year prior. The most obvious change is that craft, our beverage services business.

2022 年是 Eastside Distilling 轉型的一年。我們今天的業務與去年或前一年大不相同。最明顯的變化是工藝，我們的飲料服務業務。

Last year, we built out and began operating a state-of-the-art digital can printing plant in Portland, Oregon. To remind everyone on the call, this is the only digital direct to can decorating operation in the Pacific Northwest. This new facility allows us to create extraordinary can design for the craft beverage segment that is 100% recyclable and doesn't use plastic shrink sleeves or sticker labels.

去年，我們在俄勒岡州波特蘭建立並開始運營一家最先進的數字罐頭印刷廠。提醒大家，這是太平洋西北地區唯一的數字直接罐裝裝飾業務。這個新設施使我們能夠為工藝飲料領域創造非凡的罐頭設計，100% 可回收，不使用塑料收縮套筒或不干膠標籤。

The cans we are now producing are important marketing tools for our customers. I've been stating this for the past 3 quarters that this technology, I believe, will transform the craft beverage space. It's a critical tool for them, and I believe we are seeing that proof now. We have converted nearly all of our existing customer base to this 100% recyclable product, and we've won many new customers. Moreover, we've watched as a number of our customers have really fully embraced the capabilities of this new technology, and they're using it successfully at retail.

我們現在生產的易拉罐是我們客戶的重要營銷工具。在過去的 3 個季度裡，我一直在說，我相信這項技術將改變工藝飲料領域。這對他們來說是一個重要的工具，我相信我們現在正在看到這一證據。我們已經將幾乎所有現有客戶群轉變為這種 100% 可回收的產品，並且我們贏得了許多新客戶。此外，我們看到我們的許多客戶真正完全接受了這項新技術的功能，並且他們在零售業中成功地使用了它。

Now if you've followed the company over the past few quarters, in the past year, getting this investment at craft up and running has been a huge challenge. I mean think about it, it's a brand-new product. It's new technology. It's a new market for us. We've had to build a new plant, install a new team, build new processes. It's been a huge undertaking.

現在，如果你在過去的幾個季度里關注過這家公司，那麼在過去的一年裡，讓這項投資在工藝上啟動和運行一直是一個巨大的挑戰。我的意思是想想看，這是一個全新的產品。這是新技術。這對我們來說是一個新市場。我們不得不建造一個新工廠，組建一個新團隊，建立新流程。這是一項艱鉅的任務。

And initially, we had projected a faster ramp-up to full capacity, but we faced a steep learning curve that impacted our ability to get to scale through last year. Now while printing performance has improved in 2022, the fourth quarter was particularly challenging as we had to address debottlenecking among many other issues that were inhibiting our ability to achieve that full capacity that we're looking for.

最初，我們預計會更快地提升到滿負荷，但我們面臨著陡峭的學習曲線，這影響了我們去年擴大規模的能力。現在，雖然印刷性能在 2022 年有所改善，但第四季度尤其具有挑戰性，因為我們必須解決許多其他問題，這些問題阻礙了我們實現我們正在尋找的全部產能的能力。

Seasonal slowness in the beer category, a core part of our current customer set, in the fourth quarter gave us a chance to improve our processes and printing, but it meant not achieving that full capacity in the quarter. So that had a negative impact on the gross margin in the quarter, and you can see that in the numbers. Each challenge we faced, though, during the year, we sorted out a solution to the credit of the team. We improved our processes, and always, we always serve our customers. And we did the same thing in the fourth quarter.

啤酒類別（我們當前客戶群的核心部分）在第四季度的季節性放緩讓我們有機會改進我們的流程和印刷，但這意味著無法在本季度實現全部產能。因此，這對本季度的毛利率產生了負面影響，您可以在數字中看到這一點。不過，在這一年裡，我們面臨的每一個挑戰都為團隊的信譽找到了解決方案。我們改進了我們的流程，並且始終為我們的客戶服務。我們在第四季度做了同樣的事情。

Now as we sit here now in the last day of the first quarter of 2023, I can say our performance this quarter will be much better. Although coming out of the year, we started January very low, we've seen sequential improvement in January, February and March. And in March, we printed well over 1 million cans alone this month, a record for us. In mobile, we've also made a number of improvements in the fourth quarter and the first part of this year, and we expect a better performance there as well.

現在，當我們在 2023 年第一季度的最後一天坐在這裡時，我可以說我們本季度的表現會好得多。雖然今年剛結束，但我們在 1 月份的開局很低，但我們已經看到 1 月、2 月和 3 月的連續改善。而在 3 月份，我們僅在這個月就印製了超過 100 萬個罐頭，創下了我們的記錄。在移動端，我們在第四季度和今年上半年也做出了一些改進，我們預計這方面也會有更好的表現。

But now let me turn to our spirits business. Like crafted had its own challenges, and in 2022, we made a very hard decision to reposition our Azuñia tequila brand in retail channels where we would be able to make an adequate return on all the investment spending.

但現在讓我談談我們的烈酒業務。 Like crafted 也有其自身的挑戰，在 2022 年，我們做出了一個非常艱難的決定，即在零售渠道中重新定位我們的 Azuñia 龍舌蘭酒品牌，以便我們能夠從所有投資支出中獲得足夠的回報。

Now this meant exiting a number of distribution deals where we are effectively losing money. So each quarter of last year, we saw volumes decline, and they continued doing that in the fourth quarter. But at the same time, we are working on improving our distribution partnerships in all our focus states. Now walking away from this volume, it's hard to do, but it was critical for the long-term success of the company.

現在，這意味著退出一些我們實際上在賠錢的分銷交易。因此，去年每個季度，我們都看到銷量下降，他們在第四季度繼續這樣做。但與此同時，我們正在努力改善我們在所有重點州的分銷合作夥伴關係。現在放棄這個數量，很難做到，但這對公司的長期成功至關重要。

Now we have completed this realignment of investment in Azuñia with restructuring actions that took place in the first quarter of this year. And this completes a big shift from an overinvestment in Azuñia to a more balanced approach, allow us to leverage the opportunity in both Portland Potato Vodka and Burnside, our other portfolio brands. In addition, we see that we've written down a large portion of the goodwill associated with the Azuñia acquisition.

現在，我們已經通過今年第一季度的重組行動完成了對 Azuñia 的投資調整。這完成了從對 Azuñia 的過度投資到更平衡的方法的重大轉變，使我們能夠利用波特蘭土豆伏特加和我們其他投資組合品牌 Burnside 的機會。此外，我們看到我們已經減記了與 Azuñia 收購相關的大部分商譽。

We continue to look across our brand portfolio and target the most attractive segments to invest our scarce capital. And given our high cost of capital, this is exactly the disciplined approach we have lacked in the past. And so we're going to stay at it. Overinvestment in Azuñia has meant an underinvestment in the Oregon brand. That underinvestment is reflected in their volume performance in the fourth quarter. But rest assure, we will be increasing our investment there in the Oregon portfolio in 2023, and we expect to see significant improvements.

我們繼續審視我們的品牌組合，並瞄準最具吸引力的細分市場來投資我們的稀缺資本。考慮到我們的高資本成本，這正是我們過去所缺乏的紀律方法。所以我們會堅持下去。對 Azuñia 的過度投資意味著對 Oregon 品牌的投資不足。這種投資不足反映在他們第四季度的銷量表現上。但請放心，我們將在 2023 年增加對俄勒岡投資組合的投資，我們預計會看到顯著改善。

Now over the course of the year, I've heard from many of you expressing a general frustration of the performance of our stock, and I, too, share that frustration. Now I bought a lot myself early last year, and I know many of you want an immediate solution that will unlock the value that we all believe is in this company for all stakeholders.

現在，在這一年中，我聽到你們中的許多人表達了對我們股票表現的普遍失望，我也有同感。去年年初我自己買了很多東西，我知道你們中的許多人都想要一個立即解決方案，以釋放我們都相信這家公司對所有利益相關者的價值。

In December, the Board, along those lines, instructed the company maybe to consider the potential sale of spirit brands, one or all. And we've put every option on the table and gone through a process that's not complete to date. We do anticipate that we will be wrapping that process up shortly. And while I'm not in a position to answer any questions on that topic today, I can assure you that we will be updating you all once the process has been completed.

去年 12 月，董事會按照這些思路指示公司可能考慮出售一個或所有烈酒品牌。我們已經將所有選項都擺在桌面上，並經歷了一個迄今為止尚未完成的過程。我們確實預計我們將很快結束該過程。雖然我今天無法回答有關該主題的任何問題，但我可以向您保證，一旦流程完成，我們將向您通報最新情況。

Now Tiffany will take you through our year-end results in a moment, but I first would like to give you some rough guidance on what to expect from us this year. We have set a goal to be EBITDA positive for both craft and the spirits business by the third quarter. Craft will likely hit that mark sooner than spirits. We expect improving trends in spirits volumes and strong growth at craft due to our digital printing investment. These goals will not be easy to achieve, but I believe we have put a thorough plan together, and we have it in place. The Board has approved it. And if we execute it, we will achieve these goals.

現在蒂芙尼將帶您了解我們的年終業績，但我首先想就今年對我們的期望向您提供一些粗略的指導。我們設定了一個目標，即到第三季度，手工藝品和烈酒業務的 EBITDA 均為正值。 Craft 可能會比烈酒更早達到這個目標。由於我們的數字印刷投資，我們預計烈酒銷量趨勢將有所改善，工藝品將實現強勁增長。這些目標實現起來並不容易，但我相信我們已經制定了一個周密的計劃，並且已經到位。董事會已批准。如果我們執行它，我們將實現這些目標。

With that said, I'll turn the call over to Tiffany, who will cover more details. And then we can get into some questions.

話雖如此，我會將電話轉給蒂芙尼，她將介紹更多細節。然後我們可以提出一些問題。

Thank you, Geoff, and thank you all again for joining our call today. Let's review the fourth quarter.

謝謝你，傑夫，再次感謝大家今天加入我們的電話會議。讓我們回顧一下第四季度。

On a consolidated basis, our gross sales were over $2 million for the fourth quarter of '22 compared to almost $3 million for the fourth quarter of '21. Spirits sales were $1.1 million for '22 compared to $1.4 million for '21 due to volume softness in Azuñia as we reduced discounting and had soft holiday sales. Craft sales were $1.2 million for '22 and $1.4 million for '21, reflecting our continued challenges in mobile canning. And we experienced some unexpected seasonality in can printing during the holidays.

在綜合基礎上，我們 22 年第四季度的總銷售額超過 200 萬美元，而 21 年第四季度的銷售額接近 300 萬美元。 22 年的烈酒銷售額為 110 萬美元，而 21 年的烈酒銷售額為 140 萬美元，原因是 Azuñia 的銷量疲軟，因為我們減少了折扣，假期銷售疲軟。 22 年工藝品銷售額為 120 萬美元，21 年工藝品銷售額為 140 萬美元，反映了我們在移動罐裝方面的持續挑戰。在假期期間，我們在罐頭印刷方面經歷了一些意想不到的季節性。

Our consolidated gross profit was negative $148,000 for Q4 '22 compared to positive $598,000 for Q4 2021. Our consolidated gross margins were negative 6% for '22 and positive 23% for '21. Spirits margins were 13% for '22 and 38% for '21, and craft had margins of negative 23% for '22 and positive 10% for '21. Craft margins are expected to continue to improve as we build volume of printed cans, as Geoff mentioned earlier.

我們的綜合毛利率在 22 年第四季度為負 148,000 美元，而 2021 年第四季度為正 598,000 美元。我們的綜合毛利率在 22 年為負 6%，在 21 年為正 23%。 '22 的烈酒利潤率為 13%，'21 為 38%，'22 的工藝品利潤率為負 23%，'21 的利潤率為正 10%。正如 Geoff 之前提到的那樣，隨著我們增加印刷罐的數量，工藝利潤率預計將繼續提高。

Adjusted EBITDA was negative $1.6 million for '22 and negative $1.5 million for '21 due to the continued softness in both businesses. In addition, we recorded an impairment loss related to our Azuñia brand of $7.5 million.

調整後的 EBITDA 在 22 年為負 160 萬美元，在 21 年為負 150 萬美元，原因是這兩項業務持續疲軟。此外，我們記錄了與 Azuñia 品牌相關的減值損失 750 萬美元。

Turning to the balance sheet. We raised a net of almost $2 million during the fourth quarter of 2022, ending with cash of $700,000 as we continue to pay down debt, which we've fully repaid all loans at Craft. These financial results were not what we expected to deliver, but we believe we are now better positioned in spirits as we've eliminated unprofitable volumes and reestablished ourselves with our distributors.

轉向資產負債表。我們在 2022 年第四季度淨籌集了近 200 萬美元，最終現金為 700,000 美元，因為我們繼續償還債務，我們已經全額償還了 Craft 的所有貸款。這些財務結果不是我們預期的結果，但我們相信我們現在在精神上處於更好的位置，因為我們已經消除了無利可圖的數量並與我們的分銷商重新建立了聯繫。

At Craft, we printed 1 million cans during March, and we are focusing only on profitable mobile customers. We are excited about the outstanding growth of the printer for the remainder of the year. As Geoff said, we are also expecting better results from the continued restructuring of both businesses, which will be more apparent in coming quarters.

在 Craft，我們在 3 月份印製了 100 萬個罐頭，我們只關注有利可圖的移動客戶。我們對打印機在今年餘下時間的出色增長感到興奮。正如 Geoff 所說，我們還預計兩家業務的持續重組會帶來更好的結果，這將在未來幾個季度更加明顯。

We will now open the floor for questions. Operator?

我們現在開始提問。操作員？

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from [James Watson], a private investor.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自私人投資者 [James Watson]。

Yes. I was looking at the full year's adjusted EBITDA margin. It's roughly negative 30%. And if I heard you correctly, we are targeting a positive EBITDA by quarter 3, if I'm not wrong. So the swing will be quite a big one to be a breakeven level. What gives us the confidence that we will reach there?

是的。我正在查看全年調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率。大約是負的30%。如果我沒聽錯的話，如果我沒記錯的話，我們的目標是到第 3 季度實現正 EBITDA。因此，要達到盈虧平衡水平，波動將相當大。是什麼讓我們有信心到達那裡？

Sure. So the way I think you need to look at this business, as I referenced in my remarks, is it's really a completely different business than what you've seen before the company. I mean in the past, we've had a mobile canning operation, which for the people that are new on the call, that's a business where you basically pick a small, mini canning line to a brewery and you fill cans there. And we've transitioned to a big plant that does high-quality, super high-end digital graphic printing. And then we can also do the mobile filling, too.

當然。因此，正如我在評論中提到的，我認為你需要看待這項業務的方式是，它與你在公司之前所看到的完全不同。我的意思是，在過去，我們有一個移動罐頭操作，對於新來的人來說，這是一個你基本上選擇一個小型的罐頭線到啤酒廠然後在那裡裝罐的業務。我們已經過渡到一家大型工廠，從事高質量、超高端的數字圖形印刷。然後我們也可以進行移動填充。

But the point there is that in the fourth quarter, you saw a pretty big gross margin miss by craft. And that's a function of the fact that we didn't get enough ramp-up of cans in the fourth quarter. We went from not having any digital planning to having the only plant in the Pacific Northwest in less than a year, and we converted 100% of our customers in less than a year. And now beyond that, you have to ramp up and add a lot more customers who are going from buying a few million cans a year. So now we're in a different game. We're in the game where we're buying 20-plus million cans a year.

但關鍵是，在第四季度，你看到工藝品的毛利率相當大。這是因為我們在第四季度沒有獲得足夠的罐裝量。在不到一年的時間裡，我們從沒有任何數字化規劃到在太平洋西北部擁有唯一一家工廠，並且在不到一年的時間裡，我們 100% 的客戶實現了轉化。現在除此之外，你必須增加並增加更多的客戶，他們每年要購買幾百萬罐。所以現在我們處於不同的遊戲中。我們正處於每年購買 20 多萬罐的遊戲中。

So what will get us to that EBITDA positive number is 3 things. It's getting the mobile -- I'm sorry, the digital printing business to a point where we're doing over 1.5 million cans a month. And just to correct the number, it was actually this month, I think we're close to 1.2 million. Now that number is kind of -- is not a number that's written in stone because it depends on what cans and the margins and how we source cans and what customer base it's going to. But suffice it to say, we hit that number, and we're moving through that number and heading north of that number. We're generating positive EBITDA at craft.

因此，使我們達到 EBITDA 正數的是三件事。它正在移動——對不起，數字印刷業務到了我們每月生產超過 150 萬個罐頭的地步。更正一下這個數字，實際上是這個月，我認為我們接近 120 萬。現在這個數字有點——不是一成不變的數字，因為它取決於什麼罐頭和利潤率以及我們如何採購罐頭以及它將去往什麼樣的客戶群。但我只想說，我們達到了那個數字，我們正在穿過那個數字並向那個數字的北邊移動。我們在工藝上產生正的 EBITDA。

And then in spirits, you're going to see something else happen in there. You'll see we've done quite a bit of restructuring in spirits. We've reduced the workforce significantly, really focused our sales on the core portfolio of brands. And we believe that, that business with some production restructuring is going to also turn around and generate EBITDA.

然後在精神上，你會看到那裡發生了其他事情。你會看到我們在精神上做了相當多的重組。我們大幅裁員，真正將銷售重點放在核心品牌組合上。我們相信，經過一些生產重組的業務也將扭轉局面並產生 EBITDA。

And then in corporate, we're going to -- we've shrunk our corporate head count pretty significantly, by half. And that's going to be the last piece.

然後在企業中，我們將 - 我們已經將我們的企業人數大幅縮減了一半。這將是最後一塊。

So I have a lot of confidence we're going to get there. This is a complicated business for the size it is since there's multiple businesses. But the teams are focused. The plan's in place. We have a couple of things left to do in spirits, and then we're fully locked in. But I have every confidence that we're on our way to a much better year this year.

所以我非常有信心我們會到達那裡。就其規模而言，這是一項複雜的業務，因為有多個業務。但是團隊很專注。計劃到位了。我們在精神上還有幾件事要做，然後我們就完全鎖定了。但我有充分的信心，我們將在今年邁向更好的一年。

Yes. I just wanted to follow up because if we look at the gross profit margin for craft canning, I think it's been a negative gross profit margin for quarter 4 as well. So when we talk about wanting to be breakeven, right, how is that going to happen? Because we are not even seeing any positive gross margins at this point.

是的。我只是想跟進，因為如果我們看一下工藝罐頭的毛利率，我認為第 4 季度的毛利率也是負的。因此，當我們談論想要實現收支平衡時，對，這將如何發生？因為我們目前甚至看不到任何正的毛利率。

That's because you have a fixed expense. In the Oregon facility, you have large lease payment. You have a team that we didn't have before, a printing team, the support staff, right? And we were -- and the losses that you saw in the year in craft are a function of putting that in place, and then it's a scramble to get that machine up and going, right, get us to a point where you have enough customers on that mission that we're generating enough gross margin dollars to absorb that fixed cost.

那是因為你有固定費用。在俄勒岡工廠，您有大筆租賃付款。你有一個我們以前沒有的團隊，印刷團隊，支持人員，對吧？我們是 - 你在這一年看到的工藝損失是將其放置到位的功能，然後是爭先恐後地啟動和運行那台機器，正確的，讓我們達到你有足夠客戶的地步在那個任務上，我們正在產生足夠的毛利率美元來吸收固定成本。

So once you sell a customer, right, and he's taken his supply chain away from traditional labels, that can decoration, he's going to come back for more unless he goes out of business, right? Or you disappoint and he goes back to the old label. We haven't had any of that happen. So the slowly building, adding customers, onboarding new customers of craft just means we're loading the volume on that machine, getting the utilization up. And as the gross margin dollars start to grow there, absorbs overhead and then you see the margin change. So looking at the margins statically in the rear window is going to be way off where this is going to be going forward.

所以一旦你賣了一個客戶，對吧，他把他的供應鏈從傳統標籤上拿走了，可以裝飾，除非他倒閉，否則他會回來買更多，對吧？或者你失望了，他又回到了舊標籤。我們還沒有發生過這樣的事情。因此，緩慢地構建、增加客戶、加入工藝的新客戶就意味著我們正在在那台機器上加載容量，提高利用率。隨著毛利率美元開始在那裡增長，吸收間接費用，然後你會看到利潤率發生變化。因此，在後窗中靜態查看邊距將與未來的發展方向相去甚遠。

Got it. And also, I think it's a great thing to know that we are achieving EBITDA positive this year. My question is, how are we going to self-finance ourselves until we get to that level? Because assuming we are losing about $1 million to $2 million a quarter, we kind of need about $3 million to $4 million perhaps to tide us through until we become breakeven. So what are your thoughts around it?

知道了。而且，我認為很高興知道我們今年實現了 EBITDA 正數。我的問題是，在達到那個水平之前，我們如何自籌資金？因為假設我們每個季度損失大約 100 萬到 200 萬美元，我們可能需要大約 300 萬到 400 萬美元來渡過難關，直到我們達到盈虧平衡。那麼你對此有何看法？

Well, there's a couple of interesting things that we have going for us. On the one hand, we -- EBITDA is not the same as free cash flow. We have a large barrel inventory, and we have more barrels today than we need. And so when we sell a bottle of vodka, we don't go and we have to rebuild that raw material. But in the case of bourbon, we're selling it and we'll not actually have a replacement. So free cash flow is a bigger number in spirits than EBITDA, unless we turn on the spigot and spend a lot of money on CapEx, which we're not doing.

好吧，我們有一些有趣的事情要做。一方面，我們 - EBITDA 與自由現金流不同。我們有大量的桶庫存，而且我們今天的桶數超過了我們的需要。所以當我們賣一瓶伏特加時，我們不會去，我們必須重建原材料。但就波旁威士忌而言，我們正在出售它，實際上我們不會有替代品。因此，自由現金流在精神上比 EBITDA 更大，除非我們打開水龍頭並在資本支出上花費大量資金，而我們並沒有這樣做。

So that helps the company. And the other thing that you have to think about is how we survive to date. We've rationalized things that really are high value and not reflected on the balance sheet. And we did that throughout last year with taking advantage of very high whiskey prices in front of the company as we executed our build-out of craft. So I think those are some ways we can do it.

這對公司有幫助。您必須考慮的另一件事是我們如何生存至今。我們對真正具有高價值但未反映在資產負債表上的事物進行了合理化處理。去年全年，我們在執行工藝擴建時利用公司面前非常高的威士忌價格來做到這一點。所以我認為這些是我們可以做到的一些方法。

Now having said that, I'll be the first to admit, last year, I was hoping that we will be in a position that we could accelerate growth at another machine move faster. And equity markets obviously haven't helped us get there. Micro-caps are not the beloved investment opportunities as they once were just a few years ago. So that window feels like it's closed to some degree.

話雖如此，我將第一個承認，去年，我希望我們能夠在另一台機器上更快地加速增長。股票市場顯然沒有幫助我們實現目標。微型股已不再像幾年前那樣備受青睞。所以那個窗口感覺它在某種程度上是關閉的。

But this is a situation where I really believe that if we perform here in the first and second quarter -- and I just want to be crystal clear, the second quarter is going to be better than the first quarter. And -- but if we perform, then I'm hopeful that we're going to have multiple avenues to pursue growing the company.

但在這種情況下，我真的相信，如果我們在第一季度和第二季度在這裡表現——我只想說得很清楚，第二季度會比第一季度好。而且 - 但如果我們表現出色，那麼我希望我們將有多種途徑來追求公司的發展。

(Operator Instructions) This concludes our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Geoffrey Gwin for any closing remarks.

（操作員說明）我們的問答環節到此結束。我想將會議轉回給 Geoffrey Gwin 作閉幕詞。

Yes. So thank you. I am looking ahead and seeing both of our businesses heading in a much improved direction. I'm super excited about the team and what they've accomplished at craft. But I also am really excited to see how spirits is going to perform this year because I think we've made a tremendous amount of investment in architecting a plan that's going to take us to a much better place on both sides of our businesses here, both the craft services beverage can printing business and our spirits business in Oregon. So thank you for your time today, and we look forward to talking to you here shortly in the first quarter.

是的。所以謝謝。我展望未來，看到我們的兩個業務都朝著一個大大改進的方向前進。我對團隊以及他們在工藝方面取得的成就感到非常興奮。但我也很高興看到烈酒今年的表現如何，因為我認為我們已經投入了大量資金來製定一項計劃，該計劃將使我們的業務雙方都達到更好的境地，工藝服務飲料罐印刷業務和我們在俄勒岡州的烈酒業務。因此，感謝您今天抽出時間，我們期待在第一季度的短期內與您交談。

The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may all now disconnect.

會議現已結束。感謝您參加今天的演講。你們現在可能都斷開連接了。