必和必拓 (BHP) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Hello, and thank you for joining us to hear about BHP's results for the first half of the 2025 financial year. I'm joined by our Chief Financial Officer, Vandita Pant.

您好，感謝您收聽我們關於必和必拓 2025 財年上半年業績的報道。與我一起參加的是我們的財務長 Vandita Pant。

This half, we have delivered another strong six months of operational and financial performance. Our focus on operational excellence is part of our simple, clear strategy, and it's a competitive advantage. Coupled with our distinctive approach to social value, we continue to create enduring value for our shareholders and other stakeholders.

今年上半年，我們又取得了強勁的營運和財務表現。我們對卓越營運的關注是我們簡單、清晰的策略的一部分，也是我們的競爭優勢。加上我們獨特的社會價值理念，我們不斷為股東和其他利害關係人創造持久的價值。

We have been executing this strategy for some time. We've built a focused portfolio of the best, large long-life assets in stable jurisdictions, in commodities that the world will need as it seeks to develop, digitalize, and decarbonize. This deliberate reshaping of our portfolio is the latest example of BHP's ability to continually position our business for success in response to the world around us. It's a feature of our 140-year history.

我們已經執行這項策略有一段時間了。我們建立了一個集中投資組合，其中包括穩定司法管轄區內最優質、規模最大、壽命最長的資產，以及世界在發展、數位化和脫碳過程中所需的大宗商品。這次對我們投資組合的刻意重塑，是必和必拓能夠根據周圍世界的變化不斷定位業務並取得成功的最新例證。這是我們140年歷史的特色。

Our focus on operational excellence, underpinned by our BHP operating system, ensures we unlock maximum value from the capital shareholders have entrusted us with. And our commitment to capital discipline and a resilient balance sheet means we can grow organically while continuing our track record of delivering healthy shareholder returns.

我們專注於卓越運營，並以必和必拓操作系統為基礎，確保我們從股東賦予我們的資本中獲得最大價值。我們對資本紀律和彈性資產負債表的承諾意味著我們可以實現有機成長，同時繼續保持為股東帶來豐厚回報的良好記錄。

Our results this half continue to deliver on this strategy. We've made an excellent start to the financial year. By the end of the financial year, we expect to have grown copper production by 24% over a three-year period. That includes the 10% growth we've delivered this half.

我們今年上半年的業績持續體現了這項策略。我們的財政年度有了一個很好的開始。在本財政年度結束時，我們預計三年內銅產量將增加 24%。其中包括我們今年半年實現的 10% 的成長。

Our ongoing focus on controlling cost escalation contributes to our consistently industry-leading margins. And we're on track to achieve full-year production and cost guidance across each of our commodities.

我們持續注重控製成本上漲，這有助於我們保持業界領先的利潤率。我們預計將實現每種商品的全年產量和成本指引。

Despite a number of unforeseen external challenges during this period, our team stepped up to these and overcame them. Our performance has supported an interim dividend of USD0.50 per share. We've also continued to advance our attractive organic growth projects, most significantly in copper and potash. And we've added to these through our recently formed Argentinian joint venture with Lundin Mining, Vicuña, to develop one of the most significant copper discoveries in decades.

儘管在此期間出現了許多無法預見的外部挑戰，但我們的團隊迎難而上，克服了這些挑戰。我們的業績支持每股 0.50 美元的中期股息。我們也繼續推動具有吸引力的有機成長項目，其中最重要的是銅和鉀肥。此外，我們最近還與阿根廷的 Lundin Mining 公司（Vicuña）成立了合資企業，以開發數十年來最重要的銅礦之一。

In October, we signed a comprehensive agreement with the public authorities in Brazil, in relation to the 2015 Samarco Dam failure. This is a major milestone, reflecting BHP Brazil's commitment to supporting Samarco to do what's right by the communities and environments affected. The agreement provides greater certainty to Brazilian stakeholders and to shareholders.

10月份，我們與巴西政府當局簽署了一項針對2015年薩馬科大壩潰壩事件的全面協議。這是一個重要的里程碑，體現了必和必拓巴西致力於支持薩馬科為受影響的社區和環境採取正確行動。該協議為巴西利益相關者和股東提供了更大的確定性。

On safety, we continue our efforts to eliminate serious injuries and fatalities at all our operations. Nothing is more important than the safety of our people. To support this, we have continued to embed our fatality elimination program, with a focus on higher order controls to address our key risks. And we're empowering those closest to the work by harnessing our BHP operating system to deliver frontline safety improvements. Our safety indicators, including our high potential injury frequency, are trending in the right direction. But when it comes to safety, we must maintain our chronic unease.

在安全方面，我們將繼續努力消除所有營運中發生的嚴重傷亡事故。沒有什麼比我們人民的安全更重要。為了支持這一點，我們繼續嵌入我們的死亡消除計劃，重點是透過更高階的控制來解決我們的關鍵風險。而且，我們正在利用 BHP 作業系統來提供第一線安全改進，從而為最接近工作的人提供支援。我們的安全指標，包括我們較高的潛在受傷頻率，正在朝著正確的方向發展。但談到安全，我們必須保持長期的不安感。

With that, I'll hand over to Vandita to take you through our financial performance.

現在，我將交給 Vandita 來向您介紹我們的財務表現。

Thanks, Mike. We have delivered a very strong set of results for the December 2024 half-year. We achieved underlying EBITDA of $12.4 billion and a healthy margin of 51%. Our average margin over the past 15 years is more than 50%, an industry-leading performance.

謝謝，麥克。我們為 2024 年 12 月的半年取得了非常強勁的業績。我們實現了 124 億美元的基礎 EBITDA 和 51% 的健康利潤率。我們過去15年的平均利潤率超過50%，處於業界領先地位。

After an adjusted effective tax rate, including royalties of 44%, our underlying attributable profit was $5.1 billion and our return on capital was a solid 20%. We have determined an interim dividend of USD0.50 per share, a payout ratio of 50%.

以調整後的有效稅率（包括 44% 的特許權使用費）計算，我們的基本應占利潤為 51 億美元，資本回報率高達 20%。我們確定中期股利為每股0.50美元，股利發放率為50%。

As you can see on the slide, the 11% decline in EBITDA was due to external drivers. Prices for iron ore and steelmaking coal were both down over 20%. And while we received a net benefit from foreign exchange rates, this was largely offset by the impact of inflation, in particular, for labor. While inflation has eased across our key operating regions, labor costs tend to adjust more slowly. We expect some lingering tightness in the labor market to impact our cost base for the rest of this financial year. Thanks to our relentless focus on operational excellence and cost discipline, we continue to perform well in the areas within our control, hitting our guidance more often than our competitors.

正如您在幻燈片上看到的，EBITDA 下降 11% 是由於外部驅動因素造成的。鐵礦石和煉鋼煤價格均下跌超過20%。雖然我們從外匯匯率中獲得了淨收益，但這在很大程度上被通貨膨脹的影響所抵消，特別是對勞動力而言。雖然我們主要經營地區的通膨水準已經緩解，但勞動成本的調整速度往往較為緩慢。我們預期勞動市場的持續緊縮將影響我們本財年剩餘時間的成本基礎。由於我們堅持不懈地專注於卓越營運和成本紀律，我們繼續在我們控制範圍內的領域表現良好，並且比我們的競爭對手更頻繁地達到我們的預期。

We delivered a very strong half operationally with copper equivalent volume up over 5%. Despite an increase in productive activity across our portfolio, for example, stripping and material moved, there was only a slight rise in controllable cash costs. This was largely due to increased maintenance at a number of our assets and Union End of Negotiation bonus payments at Escondida. Overall, unit costs at our major assets were almost 4% lower, half on half.

我們的上半年營運表現非常強勁，銅當量產量成長了 5% 以上。儘管我們整個投資組合的生產活動增加，例如剝離和材料移動，但可控現金成本僅略有上升。這主要是由於我們許多資產的維護工作增加，以及埃斯孔迪達工會談判結束獎金支付。整體來看，我們主要資產的單位成本下降了近4％，降幅達一半以上。

Our strong performance was demonstrated across the business. Western Australia iron ore proved once again to be the leading iron ore business in the world. It delivered an EBITDA margin of more than 60%. The successful completion of the port debottlenecking project last year and strong mine performance led to record first half shipments.

我們的強勁表現在整個業務範圍內得到體現。西澳大利亞鐵礦石再次證明其在全球鐵礦石業務中的領先地位。其 EBITDA 利潤率超過 60%。去年港口瓶頸解決計畫的成功完成以及礦場的強勁表現使得上半年出貨量創下了紀錄。

With C1 cost of USD17.50 per ton this half, WAIO has now been the lowest cost major iron ore producer globally for five years. BMA also had a strong half with production excluding Blackwater and Daunia, which was sold in April last year, up 14%. This was mainly due to improved strip ratios and truck performance. And at New South Wales Energy Coal, we continue to generate strong results. Our transition to closure plans are progressing well, and we expect an outcome in relation to the modification to extend our mining consent to 2030 in the coming months.

今年上半年C1成本為每噸17.50美元，WAIO已連續五年成為全球成本最低的主要鐵礦石生產商。BMA 本半年產量表現強勁，除 Blackwater 和 Daunia（去年 4 月出售）外，產量增加了 14%。這主要是由於剝離率和卡車性能的提高。在新南威爾斯能源煤炭公司，我們持續創造強勁業績。我們的關閉計劃過渡進展順利，我們預計將採礦許可延長至 2030 年的修改將在未來幾個月內得出結果。

In copper, which accounted for 39% of our EBITDA this half, our margins remain very healthy at 54%. Escondida delivered a 22% increase in volumes and a 12% reduction in unit cost. This is a tremendous result given the union strike activity that caused some disruption during the half.

銅業務占我們本半年 EBITDA 的 39%，我們的利潤率仍然非常健康，達到 54%。Escondida 產量增加了 22%，單位成本降低了 12%。考慮到上半年工會罷工活動造成的一些混亂，這是一個了不起的成績。

Spence also continues to perform well. And in Australia, despite a weather-related power outage in October which impacted Olympic Dam's operations, Copper South Australia delivered a strong underlying performance. Overall, our operational excellence and cost discipline continue to deliver value.

斯彭斯也繼續表現出色。在澳大利亞，儘管 10 月因天氣原因發生停電事件，影響了奧林匹克壩的運營，但南澳銅業公司仍然表現強勁。總體而言，我們的卓越營運和成本紀律繼續帶來價值。

We delivered net operating cashflow of more than $8 billion this half. On a run rate basis, this continues our track record of generating more than $15 billion per year in all bar one of the past 15 years.

我們本半年實現了超過 80 億美元的淨營運現金流。從運行率來看，這延續了我們過去 15 年（其中一年除外）每年創造超過 150 億美元的記錄。

While our industry is cyclical, the stability of our cash flows is a significant differentiator for BHP. It highlights the quality of our portfolio and how our BHP operating system supports our ability to consistently deliver high performance. The strong cash generation allows us to both grow our business and deliver attractive shareholder returns.

雖然我們的產業具有週期性，但現金流的穩定性是必和必拓的顯著優勢。它凸顯了我們產品組合的品質以及我們的 BHP 作業系統如何支援我們持續提供高效能的能力。強勁的現金創造能力使我們既能發展業務，也能為股東帶來豐厚的回報。

Since the introduction of our capital allocation framework in 2016, we have returned USD83 billion in cash to shareholders. Including the in-species distribution of Woodside shares, we have returned more than $100 billion.

自 2016 年推出資本配置框架以來，我們已向股東返還了 830 億美元現金。如果算上伍德賽德股票的實體分配，我們已經返還了1000多億美元。

As Mike mentioned, in October, we signed a comprehensive agreement with the public authorities in Brazil. in relation to the Samarco Dam failure. The total financial value of this agreement is BRL170 billion in 100% terms, and this includes three main categories. The amount already spent on remediation and compensation programs, an obligation to pay to the public authorities, which is in fixed installments over 20 years, we waited to the early years, and a set of obligations for Samarco to perform. This includes additional compensation programs, which are in the process of being rolled out.

正如麥克所提到的，10月份，我們與巴西的公共當局簽署了一項全面協議。與薩馬科大壩潰壩有關。該協議的100%總財務價值為1700億雷亞爾，包括三大類別。已經在補救和補償計劃上花費的金額、向公共當局支付的義務（分 20 年固定付款）我們等到了早期，還有一系列 Samarco 需要履行的義務。其中包括正在推出的額外補償計劃。

Under the agreement, Samarco is the primary obligor, with BHP Brazil and Vale both secondary obligors in the proportion of their 50-50 shareholding. In other words, BHP Brazil and Vale fund when Samarco is unable to.

根據協議，Samarco為主要債務人，必和必拓巴西公司和淡水河谷均為次要債務人，雙方各持股50%。換句話說，當薩馬科無力提供資金時，必和必拓巴西公司和淡水河谷將提供資金。

BHP Brazil's outflows over the next few years without any contribution from Samarco are shown in the chart on the right of this slide. This agreement is a significant and important milestone. It delivers expanded and additional programs for the environment and people affected by the dam failure. And it provides greater certainty on our future cash flows.

本投影片右側的圖表顯示了 BHP Brazil 未來幾年的資金流出（不包括 Samarco 的任何貢獻）。這項協議是一個重大而重要的里程碑。它為受到大壩潰壩影響的環境和人民提供了擴展和額外的計劃。這也為我們未來的現金流提供了更大的確定性。

In recent years, we have strengthened both our business and our balance sheet. Today, our portfolio is more resilient, with a higher exposure to future-facing commodities, our cash flows are more consistent, and our balance sheet is strong. In short, we are in good shape.

近年來，我們不斷加強業務和資產負債表。今天，我們的投資組合更具彈性，面向未來的大宗商品的敞口更高，我們的現金流更加穩定，我們的資產負債表強勁。簡而言之，我們的情況良好。

We ended December with net debt of $11.8 billion within our net debt target range. With our expected cash flows in the second half, we expect this to increase to around the top end of our target range by the end of this financial year. We are very comfortable with this. While we don't have a gearing or leverage target, we certainly consider these along with net debt when assessing our balance sheet strength.

截至 12 月底，我們的淨債務為 118 億美元，處於我們的淨債務目標範圍內。根據我們下半年的預期現金流，我們預計到本財年末這一數字將增至目標範圍的上限左右。我們對此感到非常滿意。雖然我們沒有負債比率或槓桿目標，但在評估資產負債表實力時，我們肯定會將這些與淨債務一起考慮。

Our net debt to EBITDA of 0.4 times is low, both in absolute terms and relative to our competitors, as it has been for most of the last decade. This is a conservative balance sheet, which provides protection at all points in the cycle. Even if in a downturn our net debt goes above our target range, we remain confident in our position and have levers at our disposal to manage it. This includes flexing our CapEx, cost reductions, and recycling capital from our assets, amongst others.

我們的淨債務與 EBITDA 比率為 0.4 倍，無論從絕對值還是相對於我們的競爭對手來看，這個比率都很低，就像過去十年的大部分時間一樣。這是一份保守的資產負債表，可在周期的所有階段提供保護。即使在經濟低迷時期我們的淨債務超出了目標範圍，我們仍然對自己的地位充滿信心，並且有辦法來管理它。其中包括調整我們的資本支出、降低成本、從我們的資產回收資本等等。

As we move to delivering the next phase of BHP's growth, our focus will be on maintaining a strong balance sheet, while keeping a commitment to deliver attractive shareholder returns. Our capital allocation framework will assist us in delivering these objectives.

隨著我們進入必和必拓成長的下一階段，我們的重點將放在維持強勁的資產負債表上，同時致力於提供有吸引力的股東回報。我們的資本配置框架將幫助我們實現這些目標。

In terms of delivering this growth, we have a strong and expanding pipeline of attractive organic growth opportunities in front of us. Mike will take you through some of these shortly.

就實現這一成長而言，我們面前有一系列強大且不斷擴大的富有吸引力的有機成長機會。麥克很快就會帶您了解其中的一些內容。

This half, we spent $5.2 billion on capital and exploration, and there's no change to our guidance. The majority of our spend will continue to go towards growth and improvement, particularly in future-facing commodities, copper and potash. In the medium term, around two-thirds of our total spend is expected to go towards these. We retain flexibility to adjust our capital spend up or down for value as projects progress through their study phases, and as we face projects to match market conditions and cash flow generation.

本半年，我們在資本和勘探上花費了 52 億美元，我們的指導方針沒有變化。我們的大部分支出將繼續用於成長和改進，特別是面向未來的大宗商品、銅和鉀肥。從中期來看，預計我們總支出的三分之二左右將用於這些方面。隨著專案研究階段的進展，以及我們面臨的專案與市場條件和現金流量產生相匹配，我們可以靈活地增加或減少資本支出。

As a reminder, our top priorities under our capital allocation framework are to maintain our assets, to support safe and reliable operations, and progress our decarbonization plans, secure our balance sheet strength to provide resilience at all points in the cycle, and the ability to act when opportunities arise, and to fulfill our commitment to a minimum 50% dividend payout to shareholders.

提醒一下，我們資本配置框架下的首要任務是維護我們的資產，支持安全可靠的運營，推進我們的脫碳計劃，確保我們的資產負債表實力以在周期的所有階段提供彈性，以及在機會出現時採取行動的能力，並履行向股東支付至少 50% 股息的承諾。

After that, all other uses of capital compete equally. We can invest for growth, further strengthen our balance sheet, or return more to shareholders through dividends and share buybacks, all in ways that maximize value and returns.

此後，資本的所有其他用途均平等競爭。我們可以投資成長，進一步加強我們的資產負債表，或透過股利和股票回購向股東帶來更多回報，所有這些都是為了實現價值和回報最大化。

With that, I hand back to Mike.

說完，我將手交還給麥克。

Thanks, Vandita. I want to spend a few minutes on how we see our operating environment in the near term. We expect global economic growth to remain around 3% for 2025 and 2026. Growth in developed economies is expected to gradually recover as interest rates continue to be lowered, with the US economy likely to outperform other developed markets owing to its economic resilience in the post-COVID period.

謝謝，Vandita。我想花幾分鐘來談談我們如何看待近期的營運環境。我們預計2025年和2026年全球經濟成長將維持在3%左右。隨著利率持續下調，已開發經濟體的成長預計將逐步恢復，美國經濟憑藉在後疫情時期的經濟韌性，可能會跑贏其他已開發市場。

Central Bank rate cut should translate into a recovery in steel and copper demand across the OECD in the near term, although many advanced economies are starting from a much lower base than the US with not a lot of economic momentum to jumpstart things.

儘管許多已開發經濟體的起步基礎比美國低得多，而且沒有太多的經濟動力來推動經濟復甦，但央行降息應會在短期內轉化為經合組織國家鋼鐵和銅需求的復甦。

Having recently reiterated a pro-growth policy stance, China is expected to progressively draw on policy support to rebalance its economy and improve domestic demand in the near term. India, meanwhile, is expected to remain the fastest growing major economy and a bright spot for commodity demand.

中國近期重申了促進成長的政策立場，預計近期將逐步利用政策支持來重新平衡經濟並改善國內需求。同時，預計印度仍將是成長最快的主要經濟體，並成為大宗商品需求的亮點。

However, in the near term, we do expect a degree of ongoing volatility and uncertainty due to potential policies affecting trade flows and inflation. In the longer term, the case for our key commodities remains compelling; a growing population, increasingly urbanized. and seeking higher standards of living, more infrastructure, more consumer goods, more and better food. That demand is expected to be amplified by the energy transition, electrification, and energy production, transmission and storage.

然而，在短期內，由於潛在政策會影響貿易流動和通膨，我們預期會出現一定程度的持續波動和不確定性。從長遠來看，我們的主要商品仍然具有吸引力；人口不斷成長，都市化程度不斷提高。並追求更高的生活水準、更多的基礎建設、更多的消費品、更多更好的食物。預計能源轉型、電氣化以及能源生產、傳輸和儲存將加劇這一需求。

The digitalization of our world is also driving demand. Artificial intelligence and other technologies are likely to mean the world will need much more data storage and much more processing power. This dynamic makes BHP's commodities highly attractive. Not only are they leveraged to these mega trends, they also have large, enduring markets, diverse end uses, and differentiated demand drivers and steep cost curves. It's a combination of these which provide room to grow, resilience in a cyclical industry, and the ability for lower cost producers, such as BHP, to capture significant value and higher margins.

我們世界的數位化也正在推動需求。人工智慧和其他技術可能意味著世界將需要更多的資料儲存和更多的處理能力。這種動態使得必和必拓的商品極具吸引力。它們不僅利用了這些大趨勢，還擁有龐大且持久的市場、多樣化的最終用途、差異化的需求驅動因素和陡峭的成本曲線。這些因素的結合提供了成長空間、週期性產業的彈性，以及必和必拓等低成本生產者獲取巨大價值和更高利潤的能力。

Within these commodities, the quality of our assets and the way we operate them is a competitive advantage. You can see our focus on operational excellence shine through most clearly in our iron ore business, where we are the world's lowest cost producer. You can see the way we're actively positioning our portfolio on the best assets illustrated in our coal business, where we've sharpened our focus on higher quality steelmaking coals. And in each of our commodities, we have significant, high-quality resource positions, including in copper, where we have the world's largest resource; and in potash, where the scale of our holding positions us to be a leading global producer by the end of the decade.

在這些商品中，我們的資產品質和營運方式是一種競爭優勢。您可以看到我們對卓越營運的關注在我們的鐵礦石業務中得到了最清晰的體現，我們是世界上成本最低的生產商。您可以看到，我們積極地將我們的投資組合定位於最佳資產，這在我們的煤炭業務中得到了體現，我們將重點放在更高品質的煉鋼煤上。在我們的每種商品中，我們都擁有大量優質資源，其中銅是我們擁有世界上最大的資源；在鉀肥領域，憑藉我們持有的資產規模，我們將在2020年前成為全球領先的鉀肥生產商。

Let me explain in a bit more detail. Western Australian iron ore is a great example of what BHP is able to achieve. It's an asset with significant structural advantages. 30 billion tons of Pilbara iron ore, 95% of it, within 50 kilometers of existing infrastructure. That allows us to use fewer processing hubs than our competitors, which simplifies operations and lowers sustaining capital requirements. But most importantly, our people operate WAIO excellently.

讓我更詳細地解釋一下。西澳大利亞鐵礦石是必和必拓所取得成就的一個很好的例子。這是一項具有顯著結構優勢的資產。皮爾巴拉鐵礦儲量達300億噸，其中95%位於現有基礎設施50公里範圍內。這使得我們使用比競爭對手更少的處理中心，從而簡化了營運並降低了持續資本要求。但最重要的是，我們的員工出色地經營 WAIO。

As you can see in the chart on the right, the combination of these factors results in consistently superior-free cash flow generation for every ton we produce.

正如您在右側圖表中所看到的，這些因素的結合使得我們生產的每一噸產品都能產生持續優異的自由現金流。

We also have a great story to tell in copper. We think global copper demand will be over 50 million tons a year by 2050, around 70% higher than 2021 levels. And there's just not enough production planned to supply it. We have the world's largest copper resource. We're productive, consistent, and reliable. And the pathways we have for further growth in Chile and South Australia are compelling.

關於銅，我們還有一個精彩的故事要說。我們認為，到 2050 年，全球銅需求量將超過每年 5,000 萬噸，比 2021 年的水準高出約 70%。但計劃生產的數量卻不足以供應。我們擁有世界上最大的銅資源。我們有效率、始終如一且值得信賴。我們在智利和南澳大利亞進一步發展的路徑是引人注目的。

In Chile, our growth program, which includes projects like an expansion at the Laguna Seca concentrator and a new concentrator at Escondida, are expected to support annual copper production of 1.4 million tons, on average, through the 2030s. That's 0.5 million tons per year more than if we did not invest further.

在智利，我們的成長計畫包括擴建拉古納塞卡選礦廠和在埃斯孔迪達新選礦廠等項目，預計到 2030 年代將支持年均 140 萬噸的銅產量。如果我們沒有進一步投資，每年將多產 50 萬噸。

And our Copper South Australia business has potential to double its production from the mid 2030s. So an additional circa 300,000 tons per year of copper cathode, 100% BHP. Combined, we have an aspirational pathway that could produce over 2 million tons per year of copper from the assets we operate.

我們的南澳銅業業務有潛力從 2030 年代中期開始將產量增加一倍。因此，每年將額外供應約 30 萬噸陰極銅，100% 為 BHP。總的來說，我們有一個理想路徑，就是利用我們營運的資產每年生產超過 200 萬噸銅。

Just last month, we completed our agreement with Lundin Mining to establish a new joint venture called Vicuña to develop the combined Filo del Sol and Josemaria projects in Argentina. We believe that Vicuña has the potential to become a world-class copper producer among the top 10 globally. With the close of the transaction, the JV is now focused on delivering the initial sulfide resource estimate for Filo del Sol and updating the existing oxide resource estimates for both deposits, as well as defining the timing and scope of technical studies for the integrated development, both of which are expected by June this year.

就在上個月，我們與 Lundin Mining 達成協議，建立名為 Vicuña 的新合資企業，開發阿根廷的 Filo del Sol 和 Josemaria 聯合項目。我們相信，維庫尼亞有潛力成為全球十大銅生產商之一。隨著交易的完成，合資公司目前專注於提供Filo del Sol的初步硫化物資源估算並更新兩個礦床的現有氧化物資源估算，以及確定綜合開發的技術研究的時間和範圍，這兩項工作預計在今年6月完成。

We're pleased to be working with Lundin Mining, a Canadian company with similar values to ours and over 30 years of experience operating in Argentina. We're also pleased to work with the Government of Argentina, who are encouraging investments like ours with tax settings and other incentives.

我們很高興能與 Lundin Mining 合作，這是一家與我們有著相似價值觀的加拿大公司，並且在阿根廷擁有 30 多年的營運經驗。我們也很高興與阿根廷政府合作，他們透過稅收設置和其他激勵措施鼓勵像我們這樣的投資。

Potash is another commodity with a promising future. Our Jansen project in Canada is on track for first production by the end of next calendar year. This is a Tier 1 long-life asset that's expected to sit in the first quartile of the global cost curve once ramped up, allowing it to generate strong free cash flow through the cycle. It's strategically significant for BHP. It further diversifies our portfolio, increasing our resilience to market cycles. And BHP will be the only major diversified miner with exposure to this commodity.

鉀肥是另一種前景光明的商品。我們在加拿大的 Jansen 計畫預計將於明年年底首次投入生產。這是一級長壽命資產，預計一旦投入使用將位於全球成本曲線的第一個四分位數，從而能夠在整個週期中產生強勁的自由現金流。這對於必和必拓來說具有戰略意義。它進一步使我們的投資組合多樣化，增強了我們對市場週期的適應能力。必和必拓將是唯一一家涉足該商品的大型多元化礦業公司。

So you can see that we have an exciting pipeline of growth projects ahead. Our focus is on delivering them efficiently and effectively, and this is an area in which we have a very positive track record.

所以你可以看到，我們面前有一系列令人興奮的成長項目。我們的重點是有效率、有效地交付這些成果，我們在這方面擁有非常正面的業績記錄。

This slide shows how we compare to industry benchmarks. We execute our projects more closely to plan than the industry average. And our projects achieve what they set out to. This goes beyond cost and schedule. It includes all key metrics for the business case such as IRR and NPV among others. This track record and project delivery, combined with our capital allocation framework, which drives competition among projects ensures only the best get through, underpins the competitiveness of our organic growth options.

這張投影片展示了我們與業界基準的比較。與行業平均水平相比，我們的專案執行更加嚴格地按照計劃進行。我們的專案也達到了既定目標。這超出了成本和進度的範圍。它包括商業案例的所有關鍵指標，例如 IRR 和 NPV 等等。這項業績記錄和專案交付，加上我們的資本配置框架，推動了專案之間的競爭，確保只有最好的專案才能通過，鞏固了我們有機成長選擇的競爭力。

As an example of this, as you can see on the chart here, our organic Chilean copper growth projects are incredibly attractive in terms of capital intensity when compared with the average market value of listed copper producers. And this is before applying a market premium for any potential acquisition.

舉個例子，正如您在圖表中所看到的，與上市銅生產商的平均市值相比，我們的智利有機銅增長項目在資本密集度方面極具吸引力。這還未考慮任何潛在收購的市場溢價。

So while changes in market conditions means it's never just buy or just build, investing in our organic copper project pipeline is certainly very attractive. These opportunities are lower risk. We have an in-depth understanding of the resource, and we have the right teams in place with the expertise to deliver them.

因此，雖然市場條件的變化意味著它不僅僅是購買或建造，但投資我們的有機銅專案管道肯定非常有吸引力。這些機會風險較低。我們對資源有深入的了解，並且擁有具備專業知識的團隊來提供這些資源。

Before I close, I'd like to briefly mention our Chair's succession. Ken MacKenzie's time as Chair of BHP has been impactful, marked by disciplined allocation of capital underpinned by the implementation of our Capital Allocation Framework, value-driven reshaping of our portfolio to build greater resilience and unlock future growth, and unification of our corporate structure, creating a simpler company.

最後，我想簡單提一下我們主席的繼任問題。肯·麥肯齊擔任必和必拓董事長期間，取得了顯著成績，其特點是：以資本配置框架的實施為基礎，嚴格配置資本；以價值為導向，重塑投資組合，以增強復原力、釋放未來增長潛力；統一公司結構，打造更簡化的公司結構。

This focus on discipline and value will continue to be a feature in Hallmark at BHP. We're fortunate to have someone of Ross McEwen's caliber taking over from Ken. I look forward to working with Ross, as we continue to execute our strategy.

對於紀律和價值的重視將繼續成為 BHP Hallmark 的特色。我們很榮幸能有像羅斯·麥克尤恩這樣有能力的人接替肯。我期待與羅斯合作，繼續執行我們的策略。

BHP remains in a strong position to deliver value to our shareholders and those around us for decades to come. Our strategy is clear, and we've proven our ability to execute it time and again. We have a resilient, diverse portfolio that delivers many of the commodities the world needs now and will need well into the future. Our assets are world-class, and we're operating them well, but this is just the start.

必和必拓在未來幾十年內仍能保持強勁勢頭，為我們的股東和周圍的人們創造價值。我們的策略很明確，而且我們已經一次又一次地證明了我們執行這項策略的能力。我們擁有富有彈性的多元化產品組合，可提供世界當前和未來所需的許多商品。我們的資產是世界一流的，而且我們運作得很好，但這只是一個開始。

I believe there is still so much further to go here to unlock even greater performance. This powerful combination of strategy, portfolio and operational excellence is a competitive advantage for BHP. It allows us to deliver great results for shareholders and to create social value for those around us.

我相信，我們還有很長的路要走，才能達到更高的績效。這種強大的策略、產品組合和卓越營運組合是必和必拓的競爭優勢。它使我們能夠為股東帶來豐厚的回報，並為周圍的人創造社會價值。

This is a company in great shape now, and I am truly excited about our future. Thank you.

現在公司狀況非常好，我對我們的未來充滿期待。謝謝。

Thank you for standing by and welcome to BHP's results for the December 2024 half-year investor and analyst question-and-answer session. Firstly, I advise you that this conference is being recorded today. (Operator Instructions)

感謝您的支持，歡迎參加必和必拓 2024 年 12 月半年投資人與分析師績效問答。首先，我告訴大家，今天的會議正在錄音。（操作員指令）

I would now like to hand the conference over to Mike Henry.

現在我想將會議移交給麥克亨利。

Okay, good morning. Good evening, everyone. Hopefully, the presentation that we've just given has been helpful in understanding our position at the end of the first half. You know, key points, strong operational, and financial performance with continued industry leading margins. Strong growth pipeline, I really hope that comes across. That's both in the short and medium term, the quality and resilience of our portfolio and business relative to the competition, and encouraging science in the external operating environment, albeit with a degree of volatility and uncertainty in the near term, but BHP is very well positioned for that.

好的，早安。大家晚上好。希望我們剛剛所做的演示能夠幫助您理解我們在上半場結束時的立場。您知道，關鍵點是強勁的營運和財務業績以及持續的行業領先利潤率。我真的希望能實現強勁的成長勢頭。無論是短期或中期，我們的投資組合和業務相對於競爭對手的品質和彈性，以及外部營運環境中令人鼓舞的科學，儘管短期內存在一定程度的波動和不確定性，但必和必拓已為此做好了充分準備。

So with that, Vandita, who I have here with me, and I are happy to take questions. And Tristan Lovegrove is also joining us. Operator, I'm happy to take the first question.

因此，我和 Vandita 很高興一起回答問題。Tristan Lovegrove 也將加入我們。接線員，我很高興回答第一個問題。

Rob Stein, Macquarie.

麥格理的羅布‧斯坦 (Rob Stein)。

Thanks, Mike, Vandita, and team. First question, just you've outlined a lot of detail on the copper growth program recently with the site business test and data, and with the Olympic Dam announcement today with the capital investment. Can you just give us a feel for directionally what the capital intensity for the two-stage smelter set of projects that underpin that will be?

謝謝 Mike、Vandita 和團隊。第一個問題，您剛才詳細介紹了最近的銅成長計劃，包括現場業務測試和數據，以及今天奧林匹克壩宣布的資本投資。您能否從方向上為我們介紹一下支撐這目標的兩級冶煉廠專案的資本密集度？

Sorry, Rob. Did you have a second question as well that you're going to put forward?

對不起，羅布。您還有第二個問題要提出嗎？

Oh no, I'll come back to that. That's okay.

喔不，我會回過頭來談這個。沒關係。

Okay. So look, thanks for recognizing the detail over progressively releasing to market. That's been a very deliberate effort, as you say, starting with the Escondida site visit. More announced today, obviously, around the group, Chilean Copper projects, Copper South Australia. We're not yet ready to put forward a specific number, either absolute or copper intensity for the Copper South Australia growth project for the SRE.

好的。所以，感謝您對逐步向市場發布的細節的認識。正如您所說，這是一次非常謹慎的努力，從訪問埃斯孔迪達礦場開始。今天顯然發布了更多有關該集團、智利銅業項目、南澳大利亞銅業公司的公告。我們尚未準備好為 SRE 提出一個具體的數字，無論是絕對數字還是南澳大利亞銅增長項目的銅強度。

But suffice it to say, that we are very happy with the progress we're making on developing attractive growth options, both in Australia as well as in South America. And of course, we've got the resolution project up in the US as well with Rio, which is going to give us a lot of optionality. And in the way our capital allocation framework works, we'll be bringing a number of these projects forward and they will compete between themselves and with other opportunities in other parts of the portfolio. And the ones that deliver the best returns and value for shareholders over the long term will be the ones that we bring forward first.

但可以說，我們對在澳洲和南美開發有吸引力的成長選擇所取得的進展感到非常高興。當然，我們在美國也開展了 Rio 解決方案項目，這將為我們提供許多選擇。按照我們的資本配置框架的運作方式，我們將推出許多此類項目，它們將相互競爭，並與投資組合其他部分的其他機會競爭。我們將首先推出那些能夠長期為股東帶來最佳回報和價值的項目。

Thanks, Mike. And another question just on the net debt number. So without being finicky, and you know, a $14 billion, $15 billion number, but can you just highlight just some of the risks associated that you're catering for in your capital allocation, you know specifically the tropical cyclone that hit Port Hedland the other day? And then talk about how you're thinking about earning volatility in the second half and what that would mean to -- how you managed capital allocation into the end of the year, that would be helpful. Thank you.

謝謝，麥克。還有一個問題是關於淨債務數字的。所以，我們不必太過挑剔，您知道，這是一個 140 億美元、150 億美元的數字，您能否僅強調一下您在資本配置中考慮的一些相關風險，特別是前幾天襲擊黑德蘭港的熱帶氣旋？然後談談您如何看待下半年的獲利波動以及這對您如何管理年底的資本配置意味著什麼，這將會很有幫助。謝謝。

Sure. And I'm going to ask Vandita to speak into the detail on this. But I'll just start by saying that this ability to cater for volatility is built both into our capital allocation framework, and specifically how we think about net debt ranges, but it's also fundamental to the strategy.

當然。我將請 Vandita 詳細講解這一點。但我首先要說的是，這種應對波動的能力既融入了我們的資本配置框架，也融入了我們對淨債務範圍的看法，但它也是這個策略的基礎。

So the way that we think about how we build the portfolio, the commodities that we choose, their resilience under different scenarios, and then ensuring that we've got assets that sit at the low end of the cost curve, so our margins are better protected than those of the competition in the face of volatility, all of that is core and gives us better ability to cope with uncertainty and volatile times than would otherwise be the case.

因此，我們思考如何建立投資組合、我們選擇的商品、它們在不同情況下的彈性，然後確保我們擁有的資產處於成本曲線的低端，這樣我們的利潤率在波動時比競爭對手得到更好的保護，所有這些都是核心，並使我們能夠更好地應對不確定性和動盪時期。

Vandita, you might just want to talk a little bit about the construct that we have behind net debt ranges and capital allocation framework, and then how we're seeing what was the period ahead?

Vandita，您可能只想稍微談談我們在淨債務範圍和資本配置框架背後的構造，以及我們如何看待未來時期？

Yeah, sure. So the constructor of the capital allocation framework, Rob, takes into account the volatility of our industry, which means that the prices can go up and down. And the way we look at net debt ranges are indeed to ensure that with volatility, we are still very comfortable with the balance sheet strength. Resilience of balance sheet is quite a key component of capital allocation framework.

是的，當然。因此，資本配置框架的建構者 Rob 考慮到了我們行業的波動性，這意味著價格可能會上漲或下跌。我們看待淨債務範圍的方式確實是為了確保在波動的情況下，我們仍然對資產負債表的實力感到非常滿意。資產負債表的彈性是資本配置架構的關鍵組成部分。

In very short term that you are referring to between now and year end, et cetera, I would guide you to what we have published after the cyclone on maintaining our guidance. So there is no change to the guidance when we are no longer looking at the upper end. But the team is working through that and very confident that we are able to manage all impacts on that.

在您所指的從現在到年底等的短期內，我會向您介紹我們在颶風過後發布的關於維持指導方針的資訊。因此，當我們不再關注上限時，指導方針就不會改變。但團隊正在努力解決這個問題，並且非常有信心我們能夠控制所有影響。

In terms of the earning capacity and the volatility, the balance sheet is in great shape. So no concern at all. I would say, in fact, if I may go on a little bit on net debt, is that we have given the range also on net debt in terms of leverage and gearing. And you can see that this is a super conservative balance sheet currently. I'm very comfortable with it.

從獲利能力和波動性來看，資產負債表狀況良好。所以完全不用擔心。事實上，如果我可以稍微談論一下淨債務的話，我想說的是，我們也給出了槓桿和負債比率的淨債務範圍。您可以看到，目前這是一份極度保守的資產負債表。我對此很滿意。

Net debt a bit of 0.4x is on absolute basis, on relative basis, on time for last one decade basis and one of the lowest. So very comfortable with the conservative balance sheet, which allows us to withstand, if there were to be any, uncertainty and volatility; but also allows for expansion in terms of growth, as well as good shareholder returns.

淨債務略微為 0.4 倍，無論以絕對值計算、以相對值計算，還是以過去十年的時間計算，都是最低的之一。我們對保守的資產負債表非常滿意，這使我們能夠抵禦任何不確定性和波動性；而且還能實現成長擴張，並為股東帶來良好的回報。

Yeah. Rob, I'm just going to -- I'm feeling a little bit badly about the -- about, you know, potentially not getting across the -- just how excited I am about the prospect in South Australia, in my answer to your first question. And as the team here knows, the first week of January, I came back from a short leave and I went to Copper South Australia and spent some time with the team there.

是的。羅布，我只是想——我感覺有點不好意思——你知道，在回答你的第一個問題時，可能無法表達出我對南澳大利亞的前景有多興奮。正如這裡的團隊所知，一月的第一周，我休假回來後去了南澳大利亞銅礦，與那裡的團隊一起度過了一段時間。

And I was just reminded of the growth optionality that we've created in that business through the bringing together of the OZ Minerals assets and Olympic Dam. Multiple different levers that can be pulled, lots of synergies to be unlocked, some of it already captured, but much more to go. And I came away quite encouraged by the progress that the team is making and just how evident the opportunity at hand is there for us at Olympic Dam.

我剛剛想起了我們透過整合 OZ Minerals 資產和奧林匹克壩在該業務中創造的成長選擇性。可以拉動多個不同的槓桿，釋放出許多協同效應，其中一些已經被捕獲，但還有更多需要實現。我對球隊所取得的進步感到非常鼓舞，奧林匹克壩為我們提供瞭如此明顯的機會。

And of course, we've also got options elsewhere, but I do want to make it clear that that is a very positive opportunity there in Copper South Australia as well.

當然，我們還有其他選擇，但我想明確指出的是，在南澳大利亞銅礦也是一個非常積極的機會。

Rahul Anand, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的拉胡爾·阿南德 (Rahul Anand)。

Hi, good morning Mike, Vandita, Tristan and team. Thanks for the call.

大家好，Mike、Vandita、Tristan 和團隊。感謝您的來電。

I might start with my first question, just as a bit of a follow-up to Rob's question, perhaps with a bit more detail, one for Vandita. Vandita, you just talked about the balance sheet and your target net debt range and appreciate the chart on slide 13 as well. But if we look at the dividend today, you've basically paid out about 100% off your free cash flow.

我可能會先問第一個問題，作為 Rob 問題的後續回答，也許會更詳細一些，一個是問 Vandita 的問題。Vandita，您剛才談到了資產負債表和目標淨債務範圍，並且也欣賞幻燈片 13 上的圖表。但如果我們看看今天的股息，你基本上已經支付了 100% 的自由現金流。

And obviously, indicating that you know, you're going to get to the top end of that net debt range by the end of the year, we also have growth opportunities like Mike highlighted in terms of the Vicuña and resolution copper coming up is trough the CapEx items to where you sit at the moment.

顯然，這表明你知道，到今年年底你將達到淨債務範圍的最高端，我們也有成長機會，就像麥克在 Vicuña 和 Resolution Copper 方面強調的那樣，即將推出的是資本支出項目，就你目前所處的位置而言。

So I guess, if you can maybe give me a bit more color like in that situation, where do we go? Is it time to switch perhaps to a free cash flow based dividend? Or perhaps realign that target net debt range? Or are you actually happy to give up some of these growth projects as CapEx rises and they come into the system?

所以我想，如果您能給我多一點類似這種情況的詳細信息，我們該去哪裡？是不是該轉向基於自由現金流的股利了？或者也許重新調整目標淨債務範圍？或者，隨著資本支出的增加和這些成長項目的進入，您是否實際上樂意放棄其中一些項目？

That's the first one. I'll be back in a second. Thanks.

這是第一個。我馬上回來。謝謝。

Sure, happy to start there. So Rahul, I would say that very comfortable with the net debt range, I do not think of net debt range as a constraint on all the things that we want to do for the right kind of projects, attractive projects, which meet and compete in our capital allocation framework, or in returning a shareholder good dividends.

當然，很高興從那裡開始。因此，拉胡爾，我想說，人們對淨債務範圍非常滿意，我不認為淨債務範圍會限制我們想要做的所有事情，我們可以做正確的項目，有吸引力的項目，這些項目符合我們的資本配置框架並相互競爭，或者給股東帶來良好的股息。

As you said, 50% of minimum dividends can be banked, and then additional ones compete. All options compete for that excess cash. They relate to growth projects, which compete with shareholder returns, additional dividends, or buybacks, et cetera, or go in the balance sheet.

正如您所說，最低股息的 50% 可以存入銀行，然後再由額外的股息競爭。所有的選擇都在爭奪那筆多餘的現金。它們與成長項目有關，與股東回報、額外股利或回購等競爭，或進入資產負債表。

From the perspective of how do we think of free cash flow, free cash flow is very important and we look at it from CapEx perspective, but also the earning capacity for this business, which continues to be very good. Our resilience of balance sheet is underpinned by the margin of our business, which is industry leading as you know, and more than 50% margin over the last 10 years, with the next competitor being 10% lower on margin. So that's the earning capacity of the business.

從我們如何看待自由現金流的角度來看，自由現金流非常重要，我們從資本支出的角度來看待它，同時也從該業務的盈利能力的角度來看待它，而該業務的盈利能力仍然非常好。我們的資產負債表的彈性是由我們業務的利潤率支撐的，如你所知，我們的利潤率在行業中處於領先地位，過去 10 年的利潤率超過 50%，而下一個競爭對手的利潤率要低 10%。這就是企業的獲利能力。

From the perspective of net debt, as I said, very conservative balance sheet. I'm comfortable going out of this net debt range for the right kind of opportunities. But equally, if we did have volatility and had a downturn, we have many, many levers to manage that cost reduction, CapEx flex, capital recycling, et cetera. And hence, I do think that our capital allocation framework allows for these choices to be made in the right way, knowing the resilience of balance sheet is very much supportive of both the right projects and growth as well as of shareholder returns.

從淨債務的角度來看，正如我所說，資產負債表非常保守。我願意放棄這種淨債務範圍，去尋求適當的機會。但同樣的，如果我們確實遇到了波動並且陷入低迷，我們有很多槓桿來管理成本降低、資本支出彈性、資本循環等等。因此，我確實認為我們的資本配置框架允許以正確的方式做出這些選擇，了解資產負債表的彈性非常有利於正確的項目和成長以及股東回報。

You talked about Vicuña. That's -- of course, very pleased that closed earlier in January. That CapEx of course is not in our guidance and we'll be looking to equity account that. However, all these options will compete with each other in terms of growth potential.

您談到了 Vicuña。當然，我很高興這件事在一月初就結束了。當然，該資本支出不在我們的指導範圍內，我們將尋求股權會計。然而，所有這些選擇在成長潛力方面都會相互競爭。

Got it. No, that's very clear. Thank you for that. Look, a second one, perhaps for Mike. Mike, you've talked about Copper SA. And I guess, I'll just wait for the capital intensity and updates around that. But if we just talk about your outlook for commodities in general that you outlined today, and you've talked about global growth as well, I guess one theme that's currently being discussed is obviously the potential for supply side reforms 2.0 in China.

知道了。不，這非常清楚。謝謝你。瞧，第二個，也許是給麥克的。麥克，你談到了 Copper SA。我想，我只需要等待資本強度及其相關更新。但如果我們只談論您今天概述的對大宗商品的總體展望，而且您也談到了全球增長，我想目前正在討論的一個主題顯然是中國供給側改革 2.0 的潛力。

And last time we had the supply side reforms, iron ore went to close to half as opposed to where it was pre the announcement. So one thing that came through in the last cycle that this happened was basically that the high grade iron ore products did perform better. So I guess my question is, in terms of the levers you have available to pull, is it broadly just the cost base of the business that you continue to focus on? Or is there anything you can do in terms of mind plans to perhaps better your grade in a situation where the margins start to change and you start to see better realizations for the higher grade iron ore side of things? That's my second thing.

上次我們進行供給面改革時，鐵礦石價格與公告前的水準相比下降了近一半。因此，上一個週期中出現的一個現象基本上就是高品位鐵礦石產品的表現確實較好。所以我想我的問題是，就您可以使用的槓桿而言，您是否會繼續專注於業務的成本基礎？或者，在利潤率開始發生變化、高品位鐵礦石的業績開始好轉的情況下，您是否可以製定一些心理計劃來提高您的品味？這是我的第二件事。

Okay, so we've made a lot of the industry leading cost performance for five years running now, in part because we want that to be an indicator of the ultra focus within BHP on operational excellence. And you see that shining through most evidently in iron ore, but also our other businesses.

好的，我們已經連續五年在成本績效方面保持行業領先，部分原因是我們希望這能夠成為必和必拓對卓越營運的高度關注的指標。這種現像在鐵礦石業務中表現得最為明顯，在我們的其他業務中也同樣如此。

However, it hasn't been the only focus in iron ore. We were also clear when we laid out the strategy or the ambition to become the world's leading iron ore producer, a parallel ambition to improve the average quality of our product suite. And that saw us choose the South Flank development over other options that were available to us at the time, because South Flank was going to give us higher average FE content and a higher proportion of lumps. So a premium valued product.

然而，這並不是鐵礦石領域的唯一焦點。我們在製定成為世界領先鐵礦石生產商的策略或目標時也非常明確，同時我們也制定了提高產品系列平均品質的目標。因此，我們選擇了 South Flank 開發項目，而不是當時可以選擇的其他方案，因為 South Flank 可以為我們提供更高的平均 FE 含量和更高比例的塊狀物。因此這是一款高價值產品。

And sure enough, the market scenarios that we were forecasting or predicting at that point of time have unfolded or largely been realized or in the process of being realized. So we've already taken steps to improve the average quality of our product suite.

果然，我們當時預測的市場情景已經實現或基本實現或正在實現。因此，我們已經採取措施來提高我們產品套件的平均品質。

There are some things that we can do and continue to look at, like beneficiation, in some instances, but there will be ultimate geological constraints on just how far you can push quality. We're comfortable that we've improved overall relative to where we were five to seven years ago. We have industry leading margins. And the fact that we're at the low cost position globally, and certainly, the best place within the Pilbara, leaves us very well positioned and with a strong business, even if we see short term disruption in the market where we see iron ore prices come off more than people are currently expecting.

有些事情我們可以做，而且會繼續關注，例如在某些情況下進行選礦，但最終的地質限制會決定品質的提升程度。我們感到欣慰的是，與五至七年前相比，我們總體上已經有了進步。我們的利潤率在業界領先。事實上，我們在全球範圍內處於低成本地位，無疑是皮爾巴拉地區最好的位置，這使我們處於非常有利的地位，並且擁有強大的業務，即使我們看到市場短期混亂，看到鐵礦石價格下跌幅度超過人們目前的預期。

Now, the final point I would make is there is a pretty significant bench of higher cost iron ore supplies. We're looking at, Vandita, probably about 180 million tons between $80 and $100 a ton. So it takes quite a bit to push through that. But like I said, we've got an iron ore business that's constructed for all scenarios and is going to be a very strong business into the future.

現在，我要說的最後一點是，目前存在大量成本較高的鐵礦石供應。範迪塔，我們預計產量約為 1.8 億噸，價格在每噸 80 至 100 美元之間。所以要實現這一點需要付出很多努力。但就像我說的，我們的鐵礦石業務適合所有情況，未來將會成為非常強大的業務。

And if I may add, Mike, from a demand perspective, you talked about the supply side reforms. But plateauing of steel at one billion is something which has really come through, as we have been saying. And we think this plateau will last. Last year was again, at 1 billion. And hence, supply side reforms are targeted more at small end of the steel mills with very high emissions, rather than reaching of the full steel landscape. at the higher end, which is where we play in terms of customers.

麥克，如果我可以補充一下，從需求的角度來說，您談到了供給面改革。但正如我們一直所說的，鋼鐵產量穩定在 10 億左右確實已經實現了。我們認為這種穩定狀態將會持續下去。去年也是這樣，達到了 10 億。因此，供給側改革更多針對的是排放量極高的小型鋼廠，而不是整個鋼鐵業。在較高端，這是我們在客戶方面所佔據的位置。

Lyndon Fagan, JP Morgan.

摩根大通 (JP Morgan) 的林登費根 (Lyndon Fagan)。

Good morning, everyone. I guess, I'll ask the Anglo question. Mike, it's been an overhang on the share price. There's a comment on page 24 of the presentation that a control premium is not required. Should we be reading that as you're not doing Anglo?

大家早安。我想，我會問一個英語問題。麥克，這一直影響著股價。簡報第 24 頁有一條評論稱，不需要控制溢價。由於您不從事盎格魯業務，我們是否應該閱讀這個？

Well, look, Lyndon. I get why you're asking the question and I'm sure some others in the queue may have variance on the same question. So let me just kind of get us all on the same page. You know, as BHP, given our size, given our position in the market, of course, from time to time, we're going to look at opportunities, right? But in the current market, it's increasingly challenging to do large global M&A for value.

好吧，看，林登。我明白你為什麼問這個問題，而且我相信隊列中的其他人對同一個問題可能有不同的看法。所以讓我讓我們都達成共識。您知道，作為必和必拓，鑑於我們的規模和市場地位，我們當然會不時尋找機會，對嗎？但在當前市場，進行大規模全球併購以實現價值變得越來越具有挑戰性。

And at the end of the day, that's what we're all about is increasing shareholder, BHP shareholder value. At the same time, as you can see on that slide, we've made very significant progress on growing and maturing the portfolio of attractive organic projects in copper, and of course, also in potash. And Vandita, myself, the management team were 100% focused on developing those, and of course, continuing to deliver on operational excellence in WAIO and BMA.

歸根究底，我們所追求的就是增加股東、必和必拓股東的價值。同時，正如您在幻燈片上看到的，我們在擴大和完善銅和鉀肥領域有吸引力的有機項目組合方面取得了非常重大的進展。Vandita、我自己和管理團隊都 100％ 專注於開發這些功能，當然，還會繼續在 WAIO 和 BMA 中實現卓越營運。

So look, let me say again, current focuses on our own organic growth opportunities are advancing well. They're attractive, as you can see, through the capital intensities and returns on that slide. And that's where we're currently spending our time and effort. And there will continue to be market speculation about these things, but we've been pretty consistent in how we think about them.

所以，讓我再說一遍，我們目前對自身有機成長機會的關注正在順利進展。如您所見，透過幻燈片上的資本強度和回報率，它們很有吸引力。這正是我們目前投入時間和精力的地方。市場仍會繼續對這些事情進行猜測，但我們對這些事情的看法是相當一致的。

I don't want to comment on a specific opportunity, because as you know, we've kind of got an approach of not commenting on specific situations. So I'll leave it there once and for all.

我不想對特定的機會發表評論，因為如你所知，我們的做法是不評論具體情況。所以我會永遠把它留在那裡。

The other one I had is just specifically on SA Copper. And I mean, if we go back, we had an Olympic Dam open pit being dug, then we had the BFX going over 300 kilotons. Now, we've got Olympic Dam expanding by looks as though a bit over 100 kilotons again. Can we dig into specifically your confidence on executing that by the early 2030s?

我還有另外一個專門針對 SA Copper 的。我的意思是，如果我們回顧過去，當時我們正在挖掘奧林匹克壩露天礦，然後 BFX 的當量超過 300 千噸。現在，奧林匹克壩看起來又擴大了，重量似乎又超過了 100 千噸。我們能否具體深入了解您對在 2030 年代初實現這一目標的信心？

And I guess the two-stage smelting makes it a bit more flexible in terms of all processing, et cetera. But we've had a few false starts at Olympic Dam, just wondering about that. And also why you're not prepared to give us the Carrapateena block cave CapEx? Thanks.

我認為兩階段冶煉使得所有加工過程等等都更有彈性。但我們在奧林匹克壩曾經遇到幾次失敗的嘗試，只是對此感到疑惑。還有為什麼你不准備給我們 Carrapateena 洞穴資本支出？謝謝。

So I think part of your question you've answered in the first part of your question, Lyndon, in that I, as you can imagine, still have some scar tissue from previous instances where we've come to market with our thinking, with projects that looked attractive at the time, only then to then have to back away from them. And I remember the times at BFX, where it looked very positive, but ultimately, for technical reasons around the minability of the plan that we had, we ended up pulling back from it.

因此，林登，我認為你在問題的第一部分已經回答了你問題的一部分，你可以想像，我仍然對以前的事例心有餘悸，那時我們帶著自己的想法、帶著當時看起來很有吸引力的項目進入市場，但後來卻不得不放棄。我還記得在 BFX 的時候，一切看起來都很樂觀，但最終由於計劃可開採性的技術原因，我們最終放棄了它。

And so I don't want to get too far ahead of ourselves. Having said that, circumstances are fundamentally different now, right? In that, in previous attempts, it was one resource, one set of infrastructure, way more optionality in the business now between Olympic Dam, Carpateena, Prominent Hill, Oak Dam, and synergies to be unlocked.

所以我不想走太遠。話雖如此，但現在的情況已經根本不同了，對嗎？在先前的嘗試中，它是一種資源、一套基礎設施，現在奧林匹克壩、卡帕蒂納、著名山、橡樹壩之間的業務可選性更加明顯，並且有待釋放協同效應。

And so let's not underestimate the synergy contribution to the economics of an expansion of the broader complex. Because as we bring the Carpateena and Prominent Hill ore through an expanded set of infrastructure and move to two-stage melting it at Olympic Dam, that's going to unlock that further value from lower transport distances, from removal of uranium penalties and so on.

因此，我們不要低估更廣泛的綜合體擴張對經濟的協同貢獻。因為當我們將卡帕蒂納 (Carpateena) 和普羅米嫩特山 (Prominent Hill) 礦石通過擴大的基礎設施，並在奧林匹克壩進行兩階段熔化時，這將通過縮短運輸距離、取消鈾懲罰等方式釋放更多價值。

So I'm more optimistic. The plans are looking positive at this point in time. But I also don't want to get unnecessarily ahead of ourselves. And we will come out, as we've done in Chile, at an appropriate time when we've got a higher level of confidence with more specifics.

因此我更加樂觀。目前來看這些計劃是正面的。但我也不想不必要地超越自己。正如我們在智利所做的那樣，當我們對更多細節有了更高的信心時，我們會在適當的時候公佈結果。

Paul Young, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的保羅楊（Paul Young）。

Thanks, good morning, Mike and Vandita. Vandita, thanks for stepping through all the balance sheet and your thinking there. You made it pretty clear you're not going to switch to a leverage ratio. But just to clarify, I guess on the forward span, potentially you do have $30 billion of copper growth CapEx if you look at the 10-to 15-inch hilly and possibly 10 in SA Copper in my view. And then you might have five in Argentina, you might have possibly five at resolution.

謝謝，早安，麥克和範迪塔。Vandita，感謝您仔細閱讀整份資產負債表並提出您的想法。你已經明確表示，你不會轉向槓桿率。但需要澄清的是，我想從長遠來看，如果您看一下 10 到 15 英寸的丘陵，並且在我看來 SA Copper 可能有 10 英寸，那麼您確實有可能擁有 300 億美元的銅增長資本支出。然後你可能在阿根廷有五個，你可能在解決方案中也有五個。

And once you start these projects, it's pretty hard to stop them, right? They're long data projects. So just to clarify that really when -- if you do get to the point where you're approving all those projects that you're prepared to pull other levers, to bring the net debt down to protect the single-layer balance sheet?

一旦啟動這些項目，就很難停止，對嗎？它們是長期的數據項目。因此，只是想澄清一下，如果您確實批准了所有這些項目，您是否準備採取其他措施來降低淨債務，以保護單層資產負債表？

So a lot of assumptions there, Paul, let me unpack it a little bit. So firstly, you're right. What a great problem to have, as we keep reminding ourselves with such a suite of projects, not just projects, but attractive projects. And at really mature levels now coming through at different levels, of course, in our portfolio. So it's a good problem to have.

保羅，這裡有很多假設，讓我稍微解釋一下。首先，你是對的。這是一個多麼大的問題，我們不斷提醒自己，這樣的一系列項目不僅僅是項目，而且是有吸引力的項目。當然，現在我們的投資組合中的不同層面都已經達到了真正成熟的水平。所以這是一個好問題。

Secondly, in terms of your view on whether the projects can be started and stopped, this is not a binary decision. Capital allocation framework guides us for capital prioritization that we do, which competes -- projects compete with each other at different stages. And it could also mean that there is a different flexing and sequencing of these projects, even flexible within flexibility within the project.

其次，對於你對專案是否可以啟動或停止的看法，這不是一個二元的決定。資本配置架構引導我們進行資本優先排序，專案在不同階段相互競爭。這也可能意味著這些項目的調整和排序有所不同，甚至在專案內部也具有彈性。

Not everything within the project is on a critical path and we can choose to be very nuanced, led by technical teams and project teams, on which part of the project needs to be on the path so that dollars keep going there while the others are deferred or are sequenced. So there is more optionality there than only yes or a no.

專案內的所有內容並非都處於關鍵路徑上，我們可以選擇非常細緻地進行，由技術團隊和專案團隊牽頭，確定專案的哪一部分需要處於路徑上，以便資金繼續流向那裡，而其他部分則可以推遲或按順序進行。因此，除了“是”或“否”之外，還有更多的可選性。

And thirdly, I would say this is not a kind of a view where $11 billion that we are guiding to in the medium term. It is a hard and fast, and something which is a target that we're trying to fill. This is a medium term guidance where the projects will compete. They could be an average of a bit higher, a bit lower of CAPEX, but it's not as if we have a target for projects to go in there. They will have to be attractive to make do with that.

第三，我想說這不是我們預期中期達到 110 億美元的觀點。這是一項硬性規定，也是我們努力實現的目標。這是專案將相互競爭的中期指導。它們的資本支出平均值可能高一點，也可能低一點，但這並不意味著我們為專案設立了目標。為了實現這一目標，他們必須具有吸引力。

Just coming to your point on A rating. I have said, even in 2016, when ratings are very important, then we look at our own parameters of resilience and strength of balance sheet. And I think this is really important because balance sheet has to be an enabler for the business.

我只是想談談您關於 A 級評級的觀點。我曾經說過，即使在 2016 年，評級非常重要，我們也會考慮我們自己的彈性和資產負債表強度參數。我認為這非常重要，因為資產負債表必須成為業務的推動因素。

So for me, the yardstick is not really the credit rating aspect of it, but do we have the strength of the balance sheet, which can, in a cyclical industry, give us confidence that we can withstand volatility, fund our growth and have attractive shareholder returns. And I think our balance sheet is at that level, Paul.

因此對我來說，衡量標準實際上並不是信用評級方面，而是我們是否擁有強勁的資產負債表，這可以讓我們在週期性行業中相信我們能夠抵禦波動、為我們的成長提供資金並獲得可觀的股東回報。保羅，我認為我們的資產負債表已經處於那個水準。

Yeah, okay, that's very clear, thank you. And the second question is just on the result itself, really good -- just to point out, really good cost performance from the copper assets in particular, Chile tracking at the bottom end of the range. It looks like the middle of the range and looks like you had some good talents from byproduct credits, FX, and I think treatment charges as well.

是的，好的，非常清楚，謝謝。第二個問題只是關於結果本身，真的很好 - 只是指出，特別是銅資產的成本表現非常好，智利處於範圍的底端。它看起來處於中間範圍，而且看起來你在副產品信用、FX 以及我認為治療費用方面都擁有一些不錯的才能。

I just want to ask you a question, Vandita, about the controllable costs impact of, I think, negative $350 million, which there's a couple of things there, labor-related costs in Chile and inventory movements. How many of those won't repeat in the June half, do you think?

我只想問你一個問題，範迪塔，關於可控成本的影響，我認為是負 3.5 億美元，其中有幾個因素，智利的勞動力相關成本和庫存變動。您認為其中有多少個不會在六月重複出現？

Yeah, some of those are very specific. Paul, as you know, we had a strike incidents. The team did a fantastic job of making sure that the impacts of those were mitigated, as you can see in our production numbers come through. But that did include one of the payments which are given post the resolution of the negotiation of labor. Equally, we did have a bit more kit in there to manage through the disruption which happened from a strike action, as well as the earlier. geotechnical PL1 issue that we had talked about.

是的，其中一些非常具體。保羅，如你所知，我們發生了罷工事件。正如您從我們的生產數據中看到的那樣，團隊出色地完成了工作，確保減輕了這些影響。但這確實包括了勞動談判解決後所給予的其中一筆款項。同樣，我們確實配備了更多的裝備，以應對罷工以及之前發生的混亂。我們討論過的岩土 PL1 問題。

So some of those are very one-off related things, and you're absolutely right to call out. I think what is shining through in these numbers across our assets has been the cost performance as in unit costs are down 4.9%, around 3.9%, 4%, when our average headwind on inflation has been on the other side of 3.7%. And even without the FX benefit, which actually admittedly was only in Chile and not even in Australia, our unit costs are down 3%. So it's a fantastic performance by the team.

因此，其中一些是非常一次性的事情，你指出這一點是完全正確的。我認為，從這些資產數字中可以看出，成本表現良好，單位成本下降了 4.9%，約為 3.9%，4%，而我們的平均通膨逆風則在 3.7% 左右。即使沒有外匯優惠（實際上這只在智利有效，在澳洲則沒有），我們的單位成本也下降了 3%。所以這是球隊的精彩表現。

I mean, Paul, let's just say just about half of that $300 million was associated with the bonus payments for the unions, Escondida, union number one and number three. So that's sort of around $0.05, $0.06 on a per pound basis.

保羅，我的意思是，這 3 億美元中大約有一半與工會、埃斯孔迪達、第一工會和第三工會的獎金支付有關。所以這大約是每磅 0.05 美元到 0.06 美元。

James Redfern, Bank of America.

美國銀行的詹姆斯‧雷德芬 (James Redfern)。

Operator, maybe go to some next caller and then we come back to James.

接線員，也許先接聽下一位來電，然後再回頭找詹姆斯。

Very well. [Khan Pika, RBC.]

非常好。[Khan Pika，RBC。

Mike, Vandita, and Tristan, first ones on Copper SA, Prominent Hill. Just how extensive is the additional ground support? Is it more localized and how confident are you that additional CapEx might be required to increase capacity at Prominent Hill? Does that impact the timeline of the smelter and refinery expansion Phase 1 project? Thanks.

麥克 (Mike)、範迪塔 (Vandita) 和特里斯坦 (Tristan) 是第一批到達 Copper SA 和 Prominent Hill 的人。額外的地面支援到底有多廣？它是否更在地化？這會影響冶煉廠和精煉廠擴建第一階段專案的時間表嗎？謝謝。

Okay, so I'll turn to you, Vandita, to answer some of the detail on this. But as to back up your question about whether it impacts on the spelter and framing project, answer is no. And look, you know, taking into totality, of course, we're seeing an increase at Prominent Hill against the backdrop of overall project execution. I think we've got some stats in the presentation on this at BHP being very strong and certainly better than others in the sector.

好的，那麼我將請你，Vandita，來回答有關這個問題的一些細節。但對於您關於它是否會對鋅合金和框架項目產生影響的問題，答案是否定的。當然，從整體來看，我們看到，在整個專案執行的背景下，Prominent Hill 的數量增加。我認為我們在演示中已經得到了一些數據，表明必和必拓的表現非常強勁，而且肯定比該行業的其他公司要好。

In this case, we ran into the need for some extra ground support, a few other issues in terms of the underlying assumptions, so we've seen an increase. But as you can imagine, when teams bring this sort of thing forward in BHP, it gets a lot of very rigorous consideration, both directly in the team leading the project, but also through an independent review. And we're comfortable that the updated parameters are a more accurate reflection of what we've experienced.

在這種情況下，我們遇到了一些額外地面支援的需求，以及一些與基本假設相關的其他問題，因此我們看到了成長。但你可以想像，當團隊在 BHP 中提出這種事情時，它會得到很多非常嚴格的考慮，不僅在專案領導團隊中直接進行，而且也會透過獨立審查。我們很高興看到更新的參數更準確地反映了我們的體驗。

We have the large majority of the contracts already locked in supporting the project, and they're comfortable with the estimate that's been drawn here. Vandita, would you like to add anything?

我們已經鎖定了支持該項目的大部分合同，他們對這裡得出的估算感到滿意。Vandita，您想補充什麼嗎？

Yeah, you've covered it well, Mike. In terms of the triggers or the increase relating to the sync rate differences in assumptions, which were earlier there. And I'll remind you that we had taken the view of costs from the IER, which were already higher than the capital.

是的，麥克，你說得很好。就觸發器或與同步率差異相關的假設的增加而言，這些假設之前就已經存在了。我要提醒大家，我們已經從 IER 的角度考慮了成本，其成本已經高於資本。

You're right, we have had higher ground support for seismic reasons and inflation in the contracts. Contracts, as Mike mentioned, 90% of those are awarded. So a higher level of certainty, both in terms of contingency in schedule and in terms of cost has been baked in. So we think this new a cost estimate of [$910-odd], we are confident in that.

您說得對，出於地震原因和通貨膨脹的原因，我們在合約中獲得了更高的地面支持。正如麥克所提到的，90％的合約都已經授予。因此，無論是在進度應急方面還是在成本方面，都已經具有了更高程度的確定性。因此我們認為這個新的成本估算為 [910 多美元]，我們對此很有信心。

Thank you. And the second one is on realized price for WAIO. I mean, it's been marginally weak. That's my expectations for a few quarters. Just trying to understand what's driving that? Is it simply a lag to index pricing or is there a value in use or a degradation of some of the quality of Newman, [General Pilbara], MAC? Thanks.

謝謝。第二個是 WAIO 的實現價格。我的意思是，它稍微有點弱。這是我對未來幾季的預期。只是想了解是什麼導致了這種情況？這只是指數定價的延遲嗎？謝謝。

So it's multiple factors. Obviously, there's been a bit of a QP difference there in terms of pricing. But at the end of the day, that's more of a timing issue than anything else.

所以這是有多種因素的。顯然，在定價方面存在一些 QP 差異。但歸根結底，這更多的是一個時機問題，而不是其他問題。

We have had a period of higher quality variability, and that's being driven by a few factors. One is moving through the hard cap at South Flank. So in the initial development there, the first period of production, mining some product that's harder to mine of higher variability and quality than what we'll see on a sustaining basis, but we're moving through that.

我們經歷了一段質量變化幅度較大的時期，這是由幾個因素所推動的。其中一個正在穿越 South Flank 的硬上限。因此，在最初的開發階段，也就是生產的第一個階段，開採一些比我們在持續基礎上看到的更具可變性和品質的產品更難開採，但我們正在經歷這個過程。

And of course, as we're winding down at Yandi, as we're reaching the end of -- we're winding down at Newmont -- Newman, as we develop alternative or new projects to sustain production there, it's just been a period of transition, both from existing mines to new mines, as well as the development of South Flank. And all of that's getting a lot of focus being brought back in line.

當然，隨著我們在 Yandi 的開採逐漸結束，在 Newmont 和 Newman 的開採也逐漸結束，我們正在開發替代項目或新項目以維持那裡的生產，這只是一個過渡時期，既從現有礦山過渡到新礦山，也包括 South Flank 的開發。所有這些都重新引起了人們的注意。

I know it's a little bit more apparent in terms of price, the lower prices, or lower relative prices this period, because we've been outperforming for a number of periods now. But it is something that we expect to bring back and progressively back in line.

我知道從價格方面來看，這段期間的價格較低或相對價格較低，這一點更加明顯，因為我們目前已經連續多個時期表現出色。但我們希望它能夠逐漸恢復併步入正軌。

Paul McTaggart, Citigroup.

花旗集團的保羅‧麥克塔格特 (Paul McTaggart)。

Morning. So I just wanted to get a sense of how you see the Vicuña assets developing, because the Josemaria project is London. And it was going to be smaller using aquifer water. And I probably understand that in a BHP probably would want to use desal. So I know you say you want to stage it.

早晨。所以我只是想要了解您如何看待 Vicuña 資產的發展，因為 Josemaria 項目位於倫敦。而且使用含水層的水會使體積變得更小。我大概知道，BHP 可能需要使用海水淡化系統。所以我知道你說你想上演它。

Is there desal from others that you can access initially to get Josemaria up and running? How should we think about the development of those two projects over time? Thank you.

您是否可以從其他人那裡獲得淡化劑，以便讓 Josemaria 開始運作？我們應該如何看待這兩個項目的長期發展？謝謝。

Yeah, so Paul, I'll start by saying that there is going to be more information to kind of progressively communicate it to market over the course of this half, including the resource as well as some of the development milestones that we see.

是的，保羅，我首先要說的是，在這半年裡，我們會向市場逐步提供更多信息，包括資源以及我們看到的一些發展里程碑。

The -- exactly how we would go about development is still of course a work in process between ourselves and Moondyne Mining, having just closed on the transaction. Fair to say that a long-term large-scale development of Vicuña will require desal at some point in time and we'll look at various options in and around that.

當然，我們與 Moondyne Mining 之間仍在討論如何進行開發，我們剛剛完成交易。公平地說，Vicuña 的長期大規模開發在某個時間點將需要海水淡化，我們將研究其中及周圍的各種選擇。

And I wouldn't really want to comment on what the initial development will look like. That's still a subject for their further study.

我其實不想評論最初的發展會是什麼樣子。這仍然是他們需要進一步研究的課題。

Yeah, just to clarify, in first half, Paul, you can expect us to come out with the timelines for the technical studies, as well as update on the oxide resources and new sulfide resource as well.

是的，只是為了澄清一下，保羅，在上半年，你可以期待我們推出技術研究的時間表，以及氧化物資源和新硫化物資源的更新。

(Operator Instructions) Glyn Lawcock, Barrejoey.

（操作員指示） Glyn Lawcock，Barrejoey。

Good morning Mike, Vandita. I just want to drill down a little bit on Vicuña. You've opened the counter worms with slide 24 saying it's cheaper to build them by but I'm just curious, I know you're going to give us more details on Vicuña, but you really think that with the acquisition cost included for Filo and Jose plus the development cost of our which this will actually be cheaper than the $50,000 a ton? Surely you will have done the numbers to think about it.

早安，麥克，範迪塔。我只是想更深入地了解一下 Vicuña。您在第 24 頁打開了計數器蠕蟲，說按照它們建造更便宜，但我只是好奇，我知道您將向我們提供有關 Vicuña 的更多細節，但您真的認為包括 Filo 和 Jose 的收購成本加上我們的開發成本，這實際上會比每噸 50,000 美元更便宜嗎？您一定會用數字來思考這個問題。

Again, again, so Glyn, we're obviously not ready to release numbers yet. But the fact that we've pursued the project in the first instance is a testament to how attractive we see the very large scale deposit there and the opportunity it presents for long term growth in corporate production. I wouldn't want to call at this point in time what the capital intensity will be, but we see it as having potential to be a top 10 global copper producer in an attractive district.

再說一遍，格林，我們顯然還沒準備好公佈數字。但我們首先進行該計畫的事實證明了我們認為那裡的大規模礦藏有多麼有吸引力，以及它為企業生產的長期成長帶來的機會。我現在還不想預測它的資本密集度，但我們認為它有潛力成為一個有吸引力的地區全球十大銅生產商之一。

And we have to keep in mind as well that capital intensity is one driver of project economics, things like your other input costs, tax rates, and so on and so forth, or another driver of competitiveness in the Argentinian government, who we're very pleased to be working with has been very focused on how they can go about attracting capital to the country.

我們還必須牢記，資本密集度是專案經濟的一個驅動因素，其他投入成本、稅率等也是驅動阿根廷政府競爭力的另一個因素，我們很高興能與阿根廷政府合作，他們一直非常關注如何吸引資本進入該國。

Okay, so you can't say whether you think it will be below the $50,000 that your peers are trading at?

好的，那麼你不能說你是否認為它將會低於你的同業交易的 50,000 美元嗎？

Yeah, don't want to give it a specific number or to say that at this point in time.

是的，目前還不想給出一個具體的數字或這麼說。

That's alright. And then I just want to go back to something Vandita said about the balance sheet. And credit rating is not the yardstick. We want a balance sheet that withstands volatility and deliver attractive returns. I mean, if I look at the payout ratio, you're at the bottom, if I look at the market forecast, the dividends at 50% payout. You're going to be delivering less than a 4% yield now on your current share price. I mean, that's well down on what we've been used to in the last few years. Is there a view to internally thinking about alternate to debt?

沒關係。然後我想回顧一下 Vandita 所說的資產負債表。而信用評級並不是衡量標準。我們希望資產負債表能夠抵禦波動並提供可觀的回報。我的意思是，如果我看一下派息率，你處於最低水平，如果我看一下市場預測，股息派息率為 50%。按照目前的股價，您獲得的收益率將低於 4%。我的意思是，這比我們過去幾年所習慣的要低得多。是否有從內部思考債務替代方案的觀點？

I mean, you know, it's living at the top of the balance, the net debt range, but only paying out 50%. Is there thoughts to do something else that we can get the returns up for shareholders while we build through? Do I comment on that?

我的意思是，你知道，它處於餘額的頂端，即淨債務範圍，但只支付 50%。在我們實現目標的同時，我們是否想過採取其他措施來為股東帶來更高的回報？我對此有何評論？

Yeah, Glyn, as you can imagine, we look at everything from operational productivity, which is the big game here for us, being such a big company, anything that we save on our operational bits comes all the way to the bottom line, but also capital productivity. So the very design projects, the way we look at modernization now, a lot of time, effort, and sharpness going into that as well.

是的，格林，你可以想像，我們從營運生產力的角度考慮一切，這對我們來說是最重要的，作為一家大公司，我們在營運方面節省的任何成本都會影響到利潤，同時也會影響資本生產力。所以，設計專案本身，以及我們現在看待現代化的方式，也需要投入大量的時間、精力和敏銳的洞察力。

Besides these two things, which are, of course, from a capital and operational productivity perspective, very keen to look at and continue to look at other options. These may be recycling options, what's the best way to lighten the things. So expect us to be commercially-savvy, very prudent, and for value, do the things that you would expect us to do to pull all the levers. So I would leave you there.

除了這兩件事之外，當然從資本和營運生產力的角度來看，非常熱衷於研究並繼續研究其他選擇。這些可能是回收的選擇，什麼是減輕物品重量的最佳方法。因此，我們希望我們具有商業頭腦，非常謹慎，並且為了價值，做您期望我們做的事情，以拉動所有槓桿。所以我就把你留在那裡。

So, Glyn, I just want to add one thing to pick up on what Vandita said around operational productivity. I know oftentimes, and rightly so, because we make a lot of the growth projects, but there is still -- notwithstanding all the progress that we made, still a big opportunity available to us in terms of improving underlying operational productivity, be it on costs, and you see some of that coming through our median and our median term cost guidance, as well as the volumes that will be unlocked through progressively creating an even more stable business and getting more throughput out of existing infrastructure.

因此，格林，我只想補充一點，以回應範迪塔關於營運生產力所說的內容。我知道很多時候這是正確的，因為我們做了很多增長項目，但儘管我們取得了所有進展，但在提高基礎運營效率方面我們仍然有很大的機會，無論是在成本方面，你會看到其中一些來自我們的中值和中期成本指導，以及將通過逐步創建更穩定的業務和從現有基礎設施中獲取更多吞吐量來解鎖的數量。

All of that will contribute to these resilient high levels of operational cash flows to fund some of these growth projects. And I know that from a market perspective, the fact that we've worked at a 50% payout ratio this period and everything that we're making of the growth opportunity ahead of us, gets attention.

所有這些都將促進這些有彈性的高水準營運現金流，以資助其中一些成長項目。我知道，從市場角度來看，我們這段時間的派息率為 50%，而我們抓住未來成長機會的舉措也受到了關注。

But the way I would paint it is we've been through a period where we had a dearth of opportunities to grow long-term value for shareholders. We didn't have a lot of growth projects internally. We've done a great job of building out that growth optionality. And that then allows us -- allows the CAF to work in the way that the capital allocation framework, to work in the way that it was intended.

但我想說的是，我們經歷了一段缺乏機會為股東創造長期價值的時期。我們內部沒有很多成長項目。我們在建構這種成長選擇性方面已經做得非常出色。這樣一來，CAF 就可以按照資本分配架構的方式、以預期的方式運作。

To ensure that we're protecting attractive returns to shareholders on a cash basis, while at the same time, investing in those projects that are going to create and sustain long-term shareholder returns. And we'll flex that balance basis to quality of the projects we see coming through, as well as through the, you know, what we have by way of available cashflow given the external operating environment.

確保我們以現金方式保護股東的可觀回報，同時投資那些能夠創造和維持長期股東回報的項目。我們將根據我們看到的項目品質以及外部營運環境下的可用現金流來調整平衡基礎。

Baden Moore, CLSA.

巴登·摩爾（Baden Moore），里昂證券。

Good morning, everyone. I was just thinking about shareholder returns and capital flex on projects and the global context of the market now. I think now is the time to be reviewing your decarbonization sequencing, linear spend rates. I know you deferred some of your CapEx on chance at the end of last year.

大家早安。我現在只是在考慮股東回報和專案的資本彈性以及市場的全球背景。我認為現在是時候審查你的脫碳順序和線性支出率了。我知道你們去年年底推遲了部分資本支出。

And then second question would be just wondering how that $15 billion net debt target is likely to change. one stance and one is up and running. Thank you.

第二個問題是想知道 150 億美元的淨債務目標可能會如何變化。一個立場，一個行動。謝謝。

So look, thank you for that, Baden. One of the things that we've been very clear on internally and in the way that we've spoken about it to the market previously is that, decarbonized capital within BHP competes for capital. So it comes higher up the stack in terms of the waterfall of how we deploy capital, but it still has to compete for capital. We seek to ensure that there's positive returns coming from the decarb capital being deployed into the business and nothing changes on that front.

所以，謝謝你，巴登。我們在內部以及之前向市場談論的一件事非常明確，那就是必和必拓內部的脫碳資本之間存在資本競爭。因此，從我們如何部署資本的瀑布的角度來看，它在堆疊中的位置更高，但它仍然必須爭奪資本。我們尋求確保投入業務的脫碳資本能夠帶來正回報，並且在這方面不會發生任何變化。

And we're on track to meeting our 30% reduction in operational emissions by 2030. We've been also clear that capital amount, the $4 billion that we've spoken about in deploying, is partly dependent upon the progress that equipment manufacturers make on designing and developing and commercializing the equipment that will be required for us to spend upon in order to progress decarbonization beyond the 2030 period.

我們預計在 2030 年前實現營運排放量減少 30% 的目標。我們也明確表示，我們在部署時談到的 40 億美元資本金額，在一定程度上取決於設備製造商在設計、開發和商業化這些設備方面所取得的進展，我們需要在這些設備上投入資金，才能在 2030 年以後推進脫碳。

Now we're watching that very closely. But if that were to stay on track, then the returns that we would see on some of that decarb capital would, you know, will see us continue to progress. But if in the face of what we're seeing globally, some of the equipment manufacturers were to slow up that development or just the technical nature of it saw slowing of it, then we'd need to have -- there'd be a need for us to take that into account.

現在我們正在密切關注此事。但如果這個過程保持在正軌，那麼我們將從部分脫碳資本中獲得的回報將推動我們繼續進步。但如果面對全球範圍內的情況，一些設備製造商放慢了發展速度，或者只是技術性質的放慢了發展速度，那麼我們就需要——我們需要考慮到這一點。

Now on the -- you asked about net debt range and what that looks like post the Jansen Stage 1 development, I mean, we are on the cusp of Jansen Stage 1 production now, back in the next calendar year. That's going to be a very attractive long-term project. Cashflow, we expect it's going to be cashflow positive at all points in the cycle. It will become a net contributor to the balance sheet and to our ability to fund further growth projects.

現在——您詢問了淨債務範圍以及 Jansen 第一階段開發後的情況，我的意思是，我們現在正處於 Jansen 第一階段生產的風口浪尖，也就是下一個日曆年。這將是一個非常有吸引力的長期項目。現金流，我們預期在整個週期的所有階段，現金流都會為正。它將成為資產負債表的淨貢獻者，並增強我們為進一步成長項目提供資金的能力。

Vandita has spoken about us moving towards the high end of the range on net debt, certainly comfortable with that. But of course, as we start bringing on some of these growth projects, it's going to give us the ability to manage net debt back down to whatever level given market circumstances at the time that we see as being appropriate. And that applies to Jansen Stage 1, but also some of the other growth opportunities that lie ahead.

範迪塔 (Vandita) 表示，我們的淨債務已接近上限，她對此感到很滿意。但當然，當我們開始實施一些成長項目時，它將使我們能夠根據當時的市場情況將淨債務降至我們認為合適的水平。這不僅適用於 Jansen Stage 1，也適用於未來一些其他成長的機會。

Okay, look, operator, if there's no more questions, I just want to say thank you to everybody for joining the call today. I hope you can see that period -- this is yet another period of very reliable, underlying operational performance, real focus on operational excellence underpinned by the BHP operating system, and some of the ways that we've structured ourselves, including our consolidated approach to procurement. And very importantly and excitingly, you can see that we're making progress on building out the pipeline of attractive growth options in attractive commodities, and specifically, copper and potash.

好的，接線生，如果沒有其他問題的話，我只想對今天參加電話會議的各位表示感謝。我希望你們能夠看到這個時期——這又是一個非常可靠、基礎運營績效的時期，真正專注於由必和必拓操作系統支撐的卓越運營，以及我們構建自身的一些方式，包括我們的綜合採購方法。非常重要和令人興奮的是，您可以看到我們在建立有吸引力的大宗商品（特別是銅和鉀肥）的有吸引力的成長選擇管道方面取得了進展。

So solid underlying business in whale, world beating in terms of its cost position and generating healthier margins in the competition, very high quality coke and coal business. And now, with increasing contribution from copper, and both copper projects and potash projects remaining on track. So bang in line with the strategies we've laid out. And I hope that you take away a lot of confidence from the results we've turned in this half. Thank you.

鯨魚公司的基礎業務非常穩健，在成本地位方面處於世界領先地位，在競爭中創造了更高的利潤率，焦炭和煤炭業務的品質非常高。目前，銅的貢獻不斷增加，銅項目和鉀肥項目都進展順利。因此，請按照我們制定的策略進行操作。我希望你們對我們上半年所取得的成績充滿信心。謝謝。