Bloom Energy Corp (BE) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Hello, and welcome to the Bloom Energy first-quarter 2025 financial results earnings call. (Operator Instructions)

您好，歡迎參加 Bloom Energy 2025 年第一季財務業績收益電話會議。（操作員指示）

Now I would like to hand the call over to Michael Tierney, Vice President, Investor Relations. Michael, you may begin.

現在我想把電話交給投資者關係副總裁 Michael Tierney。邁克爾，你可以開始了。

Thank you, and good afternoon, everybody. Thank you for joining us for Bloom Energy's first-quarter 2025 earnings call. To supplement this conference call, we furnished our first quarter 2025 earnings press release with the SEC on Form 8-K and have posted it along with supplemental financial information that we will reference throughout this call to our Investor Relations website.

謝謝大家，下午好。感謝您參加 Bloom Energy 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。為了補充本次電話會議，我們以 8-K 表格的形式向美國證券交易委員會提交了 2025 年第一季度收益新聞稿，並將其與我們將在本次電話會議中引用的補充財務信息一起發佈到我們的投資者關係網站上。

During this conference call, both in our prepared remarks and in answers to your questions, we may make forward-looking statements that represent our expectations regarding future events and our future financial performance. These include statements about the company's business results, products, new markets, strategy, financial position, liquidity and full-year outlook for 2025.

在本次電話會議中，無論是在我們準備好的發言中還是在回答您的問題時，我們都可能會做出前瞻性的陳述，代表我們對未來事件和未來財務業績的預期。其中包括有關公司業務成果、產品、新市場、策略、財務狀況、流動性和 2025 年全年展望的聲明。

These statements are predictions based upon our expectations, estimates and assumptions. However, as these statements deal with future events, they are subject to numerous known and unknown risks and uncertainties as discussed in detail in our documents filed with the SEC, including our most recently filed Forms 10-K and 10-Q. We assume no obligation to revise any forward-looking statements made on today's call. During this call and in our first quarter 2025 earnings press release, we refer to GAAP and non-GAAP financial measures.

這些陳述是基於我們的預期、估計和假設的預測。然而，由於這些聲明涉及未來事件，因此它們會受到許多已知和未知的風險和不確定性的影響，正如我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中詳細討論的那樣，包括我們最近提交的 10-K 表和 10-Q 表。我們不承擔修改今天電話會議上所作的任何前瞻性陳述的義務。在本次電話會議和 2025 年第一季財報新聞稿中，我們參考了 GAAP 和非 GAAP 財務指標。

The non-GAAP financial measures are not prepared in accordance with US generally accepted accounting principles and are in addition to and not a substitute for or superior to measures of financial performance prepared in accordance with GAAP. A reconciliation between the GAAP and non-GAAP financial measures is included in our first quarter 2025 earnings press release available on our Investor Relations website.

非 GAAP 財務指標並非按照美國公認會計原則編制，並且是對按照 GAAP 編制的財務業績指標的補充，而非替代或優於該指標。我們的 2025 年第一季財報新聞稿中包含了 GAAP 和非 GAAP 財務指標之間的對賬，可在投資者關係網站上查閱。

Joining me on the call today are K.R. Sridhar, Founder, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; and Dan Berenbaum, our CFO. K.R. will begin with an overview of our progress, and then Dan will review financial highlights for the quarter. After our prepared remarks, we will have time to take your questions.

今天和我一起參加電話會議的還有 K.R. Sridhar，創辦人、董事長兼執行長；以及我們的財務長 Dan Berenbaum。K.R.首先概述我們的進展，然後丹將回顧本季的財務亮點。在我們準備好發言之後，我們將有時間回答您的問題。

I will now turn the call over to K.R.

現在我將電話轉給 K.R.

Good afternoon, and thank you for joining us today. Bloom had an excellent quarter. In fact, the best first quarter in our 24-year history. You're seeing strong disciplined execution across the entire company from sales to service, technology and manufacturing operations. I want to thank the incredible team at Bloom for their dedication to serving our customers and building on the success of last year.

下午好，感謝您今天加入我們。布魯姆本季表現出色。事實上，這是我們 24 年歷史上最好的第一季。您會看到整個公司從銷售到服務、技術到製造營運都表現出嚴格的執行力。我要感謝 Bloom 出色的團隊，感謝他們致力於服務我們的客戶並在去年成功的基礎上再接再厲。

We are off to a good start for the year, and we are very excited to continue building on that success throughout 2025. We know the current economic environment affects various businesses differently. Here is the dynamic we are seeing at Bloom.

今年我們有了一個很好的開端，我們非常高興能夠在 2025 年繼續鞏固這一成功。我們知道目前的經濟環境對不同企業的影響不同。以下是我們在 Bloom 看到的動態。

The world needs a lot of power and demand for electricity will continue to expand at a rate that cannot be met solely by traditional sources of supply and methods of delivery. We don't see that changing anytime soon. This reality means that major users of power have accepted on-site generation as a necessity.

世界需要大量的電力，電力需求將繼續以僅靠傳統供應來源和輸送方式無法滿足的速度成長。我們認為這種情況短期內不會改變。這一現實意味著，主要的電力用戶已經接受了現場發電的必要性。

Here is how that realization impacts Bloom's major customer segments. First, AI data centers. We have seen no slowdown in this sector. Just last week, I was at a gathering of business leaders, including some of the largest cloud service providers. What I heard loud and clear was that they remain committed to investing in data center capacity growth and the necessary power needs that come with it.

這項認識對 Bloom 的主要客戶群產生了以下影響。第一，AI資料中心。我們沒有看到該行業出現放緩。就在上週，我參加了一次商界領袖聚會，其中包括一些最大的雲端服務提供者。我清楚地聽到的是，他們仍然致力於投資資料中心容量成長以及隨之而來的必要電力需求。

Even down the road, should there be a slowdown in the pace of investing, the total gigawatt gap is so large that it will not have a meaningful impact on Bloom's growth in this market. This is an investment super cycle and short-term economic issues will not adversely impact the megatrend. The robustness in this sector is clearly validated by the customer activity we are experiencing.

即使將來投資步伐放緩，總千兆瓦缺口仍然很大，不會對布魯姆在這個市場的成長產生重大影響。這是一個投資超級週期，短期經濟問題不會對大趨勢產生不利影響。我們所經歷的客戶活動清楚地驗證了該領域的穩健性。

The second segment is our commercial and industrial business, which I'm breaking down into two buckets. First, we see robust activity in large load advanced manufacturing operations. AI-related hardware and semiconductor chips as well as essential services like hospitals and healthcare for whom power is mission-critical. We don't see any slowdown here.

第二部分是我們的商業和工業業務，我將其分為兩部分。首先，我們看到大負荷先進製造業務活動強勁。與人工智慧相關的硬體和半導體晶片以及醫院和醫療保健等對電力至關重要的基本服務。我們沒有看到任何放緩。

Reshoring and growth in the US industrial base is continuing. Their need for electricity has not diminished and their operations cannot afford to pause. The second bucket of commercial and industrial customers are the consumer-facing businesses such as retail. They may see a stretch out of decision-making cycles until the economic scenario is clear. We are keeping a close eye on this segment and are staying close to our customers.

美國工業基礎的回流和成長仍在繼續。他們對電力的需求並未減少，他們的營運也不能暫停。第二類商業和工業客戶是面向消費者的企業，例如零售業。他們可能會看到決策週期延長，直到經濟明朗為止。我們密切關注這一領域並與我們的客戶保持密切聯繫。

Our third customer segment is in the international arena. Our Korea business remains strong, and the rest of international is growing off a small base. Our fuel cells provide reliable, scalable, high-density baseload power, making them an ideal power choice in many industrialized nations. This international expansion continues to progress well.

我們的第三個客戶群是國際客戶。我們的韓國業務依然強勁，其餘國際業務也在小規模的基礎上成長。我們的燃料電池提供可靠、可擴展、高密度基載電力，使其成為許多工業化國家的理想電力選擇。此次國際擴張持續進展順利。

When you put the three segments together, the diversification of our customer base, both in terms of sector and geography is a key strength that gives us the flexibility to soften the impact of exogenous factors that make us more resilient. Based on the bottoms-up customer-by-customer forecast in these three segments, we remain confident in our previously provided 2025 revenue guidance.

將這三個部分放在一起，我們客戶群的多樣化（無論是在行業還是在地域方面）是一個關鍵優勢，它使我們能夠靈活地減輕外部因素的影響，從而使我們更具彈性。根據這三個細分市場自下而上的逐個客戶預測，我們對先前提供的 2025 年收入指引仍然充滿信心。

Tariffs are probably another topic everybody wants to hear about today. The main takeaway is that the strength of our supply chain in combination with the relentless execution of our product cost reduction goals will greatly mitigate the impact of tariffs on Bloom. We have been developing, diversifying, and fortifying our supply base for years to mitigate the impacts of any particular country or supplier.

關稅可能是今天大家想聽到的另一個話題。主要的收穫是，我們強大的供應鏈加上我們堅持不懈地執行降低產品成本的目標將大大減輕關稅對 Bloom 的影響。多年來，我們一直在開發、多樣化和加強我們的供應基礎，以減輕任何特定國家或供應商的影響。

We have two manufacturing and assembly facilities, and they are both located in the United States. Our products are proudly made in America. Yes, we do import materials and components from abroad, but not from China. The majority of our material spend is in custom-made components unique to us, which give us control over pricing and sourcing.

我們有兩個製造和組裝工廠，它們都位於美國。我們的產品自豪地在美國製造。是的，我們確實從國外進口材料和零件，但不是從中國進口。我們的大部分材料支出都用於我們獨特的客製化組件，這使我們能夠控制定價和採購。

We have excellent long-standing partners and are jointly invested in each other's success. If the current tariff structure continues throughout the year, we expect to see up to a 100-basis-point impact on our gross margin for the year. Cost reduction is in our DNA, and we will work extra hard to mitigate the adverse impact through innovations and efficiency improvements.

我們擁有優秀的長期合作夥伴，共同投資彼此的成功。如果目前的關稅結構全年持續下去，我們預計今年的毛利率將受到高達 100 個基點的影響。降低成本是我們的本性，我們將透過創新和提高效率來加倍努力，以減輕不利影響。

As of now, we remain committed to our margin and profit guidance for 2025. As we look ahead, we are excited about the super cycle in electricity infrastructure growth. The ongoing momentum will be driven by growing demand for on-site power generation and Bloom Energy is at the forefront of this revolution.

截至目前，我們仍致力於實現 2025 年的利潤率和利潤預期。展望未來，我們對電力基礎設施成長的超級週期感到興奮。這一持續發展勢頭將受到現場發電需求不斷增長的推動，而 Bloom Energy 正處於這場革命的前沿。

The opportunity for Bloom is immense, and we are focused on growing the business. We have the resilience to navigate through short-term challenges and execute on strengthening market leadership in the long term.

Bloom 面臨著巨大的機遇，我們專注於業務成長。我們有能力克服短期挑戰，並致力於長期加強市場領導地位。

Before I turn it over to Dan to go through the numbers, I want to thank him for his service to Bloom over the past year. Dan will be exiting the company on May 1, and we have started a search for a permanent CFO.

在我把電話交給丹來審閱這些數字之前，我想感謝他在過去一年為布魯姆所做的貢獻。丹將於 5 月 1 日離開公司，我們已經開始尋找永久的財務長。

In the interim, Maciej Kurzymski, Bloom's Chief Accounting Officer for the last four years, will assume the role of Acting Principal Financial Officer. Bloom has a strong leadership team and capable finance organization, and we will continue to perform without missing a beat.

在此期間，擔任 Bloom 公司首席會計長四年之久的 Maciej Kurzymski 將擔任代理財務長。Bloom 擁有強大的領導團隊和精幹的財務組織，我們將繼續出色地完成工作。

I'll turn it over to Dan for now, and I look forward to answering your questions.

現在我將把時間交給丹，我期待回答您的問題。

Thank you, K.R., and good afternoon, everyone. K.R. gave some great detail about how we view the current economic environment and more importantly, how excited we are about future growth potential. Bloom's product capability enhancements over the past few years have dramatically improved our value proposition to customers and our relentless focus on cost reduction and profitable growth has left Bloom in a very healthy financial position.

謝謝你，K.R.，大家下午好。K.R.詳細介紹了我們如何看待當前的經濟環境，更重要的是，我們對未來的成長潛力有多麼興奮。過去幾年來，Bloom 產品能力的增強極大地提高了我們向客戶的價值主張，而我們堅持不懈地專注於降低成本和實現盈利增長，使 Bloom 的財務狀況非常健康。

Turning to our excellent first quarter. Execution was and remains strong. We saw record revenue for a first quarter, our first ever positive Q1 non-GAAP EPS and our fifth consecutive quarter of service profitability. As a reminder, I'll focus my discussion on non-GAAP adjusted cost and profitability metrics. For a reconciliation of GAAP to non-GAAP, please see our press release and the supplemental deck on our website. Revenue for the quarter was $326 million, up 39% year-over-year.

回顧我們出色的第一季。執行力過去和現在都很強。我們第一季的營收創歷史新高，第一季非公認會計準則每股收益首次為正，且我們的服務連續第五個季度獲利。提醒一下，我將重點放在非 GAAP 調整後的成本和獲利指標。有關 GAAP 與非 GAAP 的對照表，請參閱我們的新聞稿和網站上的補充資料。本季營收為 3.26 億美元，年增 39%。

We have talked before about how this is a project-based business with quarterly variability, and that continues. Q1 was better than implied by the commentary we provided on our late February call, driven by timing of customer projects. Gross margin was 28.7%, more than 1,000 basis points higher than the 17.5% gross margin in Q1 of '24, attributable to our product mix and level-loaded manufacturing.

我們之前曾討論過，這是一項基於專案的業務，具有季度變化性，而且這種情況仍在繼續。由於客戶專案的時間安排，第一季的表現比我們在二月底電話會議上提供的評論所暗示的要好。毛利率為 28.7%，比 24 年第一季的 17.5% 毛利率高出 1,000 多個基點，這歸功於我們的產品組合和水平負載製造。

As expected, we took advantage of our balance sheet and our confidence and visibility into customer demand to build inventory and level load our factory. Our operating income was a positive $13.2 million as opposed to the $30.7 million deficit in Q1 last year. EBITDA was $25.2 million versus a negative $18.2 million in Q1 of '24, while EPS was $0.03 per share versus the loss of $0.17 per share a year ago. Again, these are all non-GAAP numbers.

正如預期的那樣，我們利用資產負債表以及對客戶需求的信心和洞察力來建立庫存並平衡工廠的負荷。我們的營業收入為正 1,320 萬美元，而去年第一季則為虧損 3,070 萬美元。 EBITDA 為 2,520 萬美元，而 24 年第一季為負 1,820 萬美元，每股收益為 0.03 美元，而去年每股虧損 0.17 美元。再次強調，這些都是非 GAAP 數據。

Turning to the full year. We are reiterating our 2025 guidance. As a reminder, we expect 2025 revenue of $1.65 billion to $1.85 billion, non-GAAP gross margin of approximately 29% and non-GAAP operating income of approximately $150 million. We also expect positive cash flow from operations around the same levels as we saw in 2024, and we also expect CapEx to be around the same levels as 2024.

展望全年。我們重申我們的 2025 年指導方針。提醒一下，我們預計 2025 年的營收為 16.5 億美元至 18.5 億美元，非 GAAP 毛利率約為 29%，非 GAAP 營業收入約為 1.5 億美元。我們也預期營運現金流將與 2024 年大致相同，我們也預期資本支出也將與 2024 年大致相同。

Of course, we will maintain our strong fiscal discipline to flex our business as needed. As we discussed on our last call, consistent with historical patterns, we continue to expect the majority of our revenue in the second half of the year with a roughly 40-60 first-half, second-half split.

當然，我們將保持嚴格的財務紀律，並根據需要靈活調整業務。正如我們在上次電話會議上所討論的那樣，與歷史模式一致，我們仍然預計大部分收入將出現在下半年，上半年和下半年的收入比例約為 40% 至 60%。

I mentioned our services business as a highlight for the quarter as it was profitable for the fifth consecutive quarter. This is a critical part of our business and the long tail in our backlog.

我提到我們的服務業務是本季的一大亮點，因為它連續第五個季度獲利。這是我們業務的關鍵部分，也是我們積壓訂單中的長尾部分。

Service performance over the past year is dramatically better than we saw in prior years, and we expect this trend to continue. Technology improvement, scale, and AI-assisted execution will drive continued improvement in service profitability.

過去一年的服務表現比前幾年明顯好轉，我們預計這種趨勢將會持續下去。技術進步、規模化、AI輔助執行將推動服務獲利能力的持續提升。

To conclude, we delivered record Q1 revenue and continue to execute in a strong commercial environment. I am excited about the future opportunities for Bloom. And even as I leave the organization, I have full confidence in the finance team, and I wish all of Bloom's employees the utmost success.

總而言之，我們實現了創紀錄的第一季收入，並繼續在強勁的商業環境中表現。我對 Bloom 的未來機會感到興奮。即使我離開了組織，我仍然對財務團隊充滿信心，並祝福布魯姆的所有員工取得最大的成功。

Operator, we are now happy to take questions.

接線員，我們現在很樂意回答問題。

(Operator Instructions) Andrew Percoco, Morgan Stanley.

（操作員指示） 摩根士丹利的 Andrew Percoco。

Congrats on the strong start to the year. And Dan, unfortunate to see you go, but wish you the best of luck. Multi-part question here, but just maybe to start out with the guidance. K.R., it sounds like you're not really seeing any change in demand, particularly from data centers. But just curious more on a granular level if you're seeing any impact on timing of that pipeline conversion.

恭喜您今年取得了良好的開端。丹，很遺憾看到你離開，但祝你好運。這裡的問題分為多個部分，但也許只是從指導開始。K.R.，聽起來你似乎沒有看到需求有任何變化，尤其是來自資料中心的需求。但我更好奇的是，在更細微的層面上，您是否看到過管道轉換對時間的任何影響。

I guess I'm thinking about some of the projects that may have been commissioned in 2025 that might get commissioned in 2026 because of supply chain issues, policy uncertainty. So just curious if you've seen any shift to the right in those types of conversations?

我想我正在考慮一些可能在 2025 年投入使用的項目，由於供應鏈問題和政策不確定性，這些項目可能會在 2026 年投入使用。所以我只是好奇，您是否看到這些類型的對話有任何向右的轉變？

And then second part of the guidance question is around margins. You mentioned 100-basis-point margin impact from tariffs, but you reiterated the gross margin guidance. So just to be clear, are you not including tariffs in the reiterated guide?

指導問題的第二部分是關於利潤。您提到了關稅對利潤率 100 個基點的影響，但您重申了毛利率指引。所以，為了明確起見，您是否沒有在重申的指南中包括關稅？

If you could just maybe clarify that. And then, Dan, just to end it with you, can you provide any more information or context around your decision to leave here? Obviously, a pretty quick turnaround. So anything that you can provide there would be helpful.

如果您能澄清一下的話。然後，丹，最後，您能否提供更多關於您決定離開這裡的資訊或背景資訊？顯然，這是一個相當快的轉變。因此，您提供的任何資訊都會有所幫助。

Andrew, thank you for that series of questions, and I'll start and then pass it on to Dan afterwards. So let me start with the simple question first on margins. So we had guided for the year at 29% and we said because of all the reasons that I said in my script, but let me reiterate very simply. We're not dependent on China. We have a multi-country strategy.

安德魯，謝謝你提出這一系列問題，我會先開始提問，然後再轉交給丹。那麼讓我先從關於利潤率的簡單問題開始。因此，我們對今年的預期是 29%，我們說這是因為我在腳本中提到的所有原因，但請讓我非常簡單地重申。我們並不依賴中國。我們有一個多國策略。

But predominantly, we are a US manufacturer with our two factories here in the US, made in America products. For all those reasons, we can mitigate the impact of tariffs, if they continue the way it is today to the 100 basis points.

但主要地，我們是一家美國製造商，在美國有兩家工廠，生產美國產品。基於所有這些原因，如果關稅繼續保持目前的水平，達到 100 個基點，我們可以減輕關稅的影響。

However, I'm still reiterating the 29% because, as you know, over 15 years, cost reduction is in our DNA. We have a culture of pushing ourselves hard and finding ways to optimize and reduce cost. So we are going to take this externality and make it a challenge to find that 100 basis points and other activities we do and speed it up and not use tariffs as an excuse to not meet our guidance.

然而，我仍然重申 29% 這個目標，因為如你所知，15 年來，降低成本一直是我們的 DNA。我們的文化是努力奮鬥並尋找優化和降低成本的方法。因此，我們將應對這種外部因素，並努力找到 100 個基點和我們開展的其他活動並加快速度，而不是以關稅為藉口不滿足我們的指導。

This is our culture of being able to get to that point. We're not going to pass it on to customers. We are not going to take it on ourselves. We're going to find ways to solve it.

這就是我們能夠達到這一點的文化。我們不會將其傳遞給客戶。我們不會自己承擔這一切。我們將尋找方法解決它。

So net-net, we would still reiterate the 29% guidance. So that's the first answer. Hopefully, that's clear.

因此，總體而言，我們仍將重申 29% 的指導。這是第一個答案。希望這是清楚的。

Now on your question on where the macros are with respect to guidance, you're asking the right question. We have to book, build, ship, and recognize revenue for a portion of our second half revenue in order to meet the guidance. Now if we didn't have confidence in that entire process, including the bookings and also timing because timing means revenue recognition, we wouldn't be making this. So very strong confidence based on everything that we see.

現在，關於您關於宏觀指導在哪裡的問題，您問的是正確的問題。為了達到預期目標，我們必須預訂、建造、運送並確認下半年部分收入。現在，如果我們對整個流程沒有信心，包括預訂和時間表（因為時間安排意味著收入確認），我們就不會這樣做。因此，根據我們所看到的一切，我們非常有信心。

And let me explain a couple of things here. The big shift, Andrew, that's happened in our business, and I think it's worth taking the 2 extra minutes to explain this to you. It is no longer do we see our customers, whether it is data centers or large factories asking if on-site power is needed.

讓我在這裡解釋幾件事。安德魯，我們的業務發生了巨大的轉變，我認為值得花兩分鐘時間向您解釋這一點。我們不再看到客戶（無論是資料中心還是大型工廠）詢問是否需要現場電力。

That debate is over. The grid can only do so much in the short term. And without on-site power, people are not going to have power. That is no longer a question to us. Then it becomes a question of, are we a viable on-site power solution for people.

那場辯論已經結束了。電網在短期內只能發揮有限的作用。如果沒有現場電力，人們就沒有電力。對我們來說這不再是個問題。那麼問題來了，我們是否能為人們提供可行的現場電力解決方案。

That's what we built the company for. We have a record of doing this more so than any other technology. However, the easy button is to go to combustion turbines and combustion reciprocating engines because they've been around a lot longer than we have. Not too many people know us. However, the people that know us are expanding with us.

這就是我們創建這家公司的目的。我們在這方面的記錄比任何其他技術都要多。然而，最簡單的方法就是使用燃氣渦輪機和燃燒往復式發動機，因為它們的存在時間比我們長得多。沒有太多人認識我們。然而，認識我們的人卻在與我們一起成長。

And every time that we succeed, people are wanting our solutions. We can compete both economically and from a technical performance and from an environmental perspective. It's a check, check, check. So we are super excited about the cycle, extreme confidence in being able to meet those demands.

每當我們成功時，人們都想要我們的解決方案。我們可以在經濟、技術性能和環境角度上競爭。這是檢查、檢查、檢查。因此，我們對這個週期感到非常興奮，並且非常有信心能夠滿足這些需求。

And will certain projects shift in the short term? Maybe they will. But the amount of projects that get executed is plenty and enough given where we are for us to be able to meet the guidance. That's how we see it.

某些項目會在短期內改變嗎？也許他們會的。但考慮到我們目前的狀況，執行的項目數量已經足夠多，足以讓我們達到預期目標。我們就是這樣看待它的。

I'll pass it on to Dan now to answer the question.

我現在將這個問題轉交給丹來回答。

Yes. Thanks, Andrew. So listen, I'll just say that I think the opportunity ahead for Bloom is fantastic. I think there's a huge commercial opportunity for all of the reasons that K.R. discussed, for all the reasons that we've talked about previously.

是的。謝謝，安德魯。所以聽著，我只想說，我認為布魯姆未來的機會非常好。我認為，由於 K.R. 的所有原因，其中蘊藏著巨大的商業機會。討論，因為我們之前已經討論過所有原因。

Nothing more to add for myself personally at the moment, but you'll hear more from me, I'm sure.

就我個人而言，目前沒有什麼可補充的，但我相信您會從我這裡聽到更多消息。

Manav Gupta, UBS.

瑞銀的 Manav Gupta。

Just wanted to thank Dan upfront. You came in and you were very helpful right away. You brought in transparency. So thank you for all the help. My question here is, as you are trying to scale up Sri, there are two ways you're doing it.

我只是想提前感謝丹。您一進來就立即提供了很大的幫助。你帶來了透明度。非常感謝你們的幫忙。我的問題是，當您嘗試擴大 Sri 規模時，有兩種方法可以實現。

One, obviously, you are directly working with data centers. But the other, which we kind of liked last year was you're building this partnership with utilities. So can you help us understand which will be the bigger driver of your product deployment in '25 and '26? Will it be you directly going to these customers? Or will it be a combination of that and working with AEP or maybe even more utilities to place more product into service?

首先，顯然，您直接與資料中心合作。但另一方面，我們去年很喜歡的一點是，你們正在與公用事業公司建立這種合作關係。那麼，您能否幫助我們了解哪一個將成為 25 年和 26 年產品部署的最大驅動力？您會直接去找這些客戶嗎？或者將兩者結合起來並與 AEP 或更多公用事業公司合作，將更多產品投入使用？

Manav, thank you so much for that question. So here's what I can tell you very simply, right? The grid is what is constrained. The grid is what is challenged. Utilities are a business that manage their customers.

Manav，非常感謝您提出這個問題。那我可以非常簡單地告訴你，對嗎？網格就是受到約束的。電網才是受到挑戰的。公用事業是管理客戶的企業。

In many cases, the utilities have both the willingness and the ability from a regulatory perspective to procure our products and supply it to their customers. That always will be our preferred choice and it will be the customer's preferred choice because they can continue to procure their power from whoever they got it all along, except through a different means of generation right on site. So for that reason, we are working with multiple utilities and with AEP. We are very bullish on that partnership and where that's going to go.

在許多情況下，從監管角度來看，公用事業公司有意願也有能力採購我們的產品並將其供應給他們的客戶。這永遠是我們的首選，也是客戶的首選，因為他們可以繼續從他們一直以來的來源獲取電力，只是透過現場的不同發電方式。因此，我們正在與多家公用事業公司以及 AEP 合作。我們對這項合作關係及其未來發展充滿信心。

But we are also working with several other utilities as we speak right now, both electric utilities and gas utilities. And when they materialize and when we are allowed to speak about that by them, those are the two conditions for us to announce anything.

但正如我們現在所說，我們也在與其他幾家公用事業公司合作，包括電力公司和天然氣公司。當它們實現時，並且當它們允許我們談論它們時，這就是我們宣布任何事情的兩個條件。

Sometimes we book things and we can't speak about it because the customer tells us not to. Sometimes it takes a little while to get there, but we are very confident we're going to get there within the timeline. So it's that combination. But definitely, we are working with them.

有時我們預訂了一些東西，但我們不能談論它，因為客戶告訴我們不要談論。有時需要一點時間才能實現，但我們非常有信心在規定時間內實現。就是這樣的組合。但毫無疑問，我們正在與他們合作。

In certain other cases, because of regulatory reasons or because of a customer's wish, they want to procure their systems directly and procure the power from us. In that case, we work with the utility to get the fuel from them and supply to the customer. We are agnostic, and we like both models.

在某些其他情況下，由於監管原因或客戶的意願，他們希望直接購買他們的系統並向我們購買電力。在這種情況下，我們與公用事業公司合作，從他們那裡獲取燃料並供應給客戶。我們是不可知論者，我們喜歡這兩種模式。

In terms of small retail, there, most often, the utility doesn't want to get involved and would rather have us supply it directly to the customers. But for the large loads, I think partnering with the utility is a very smart option. Hopefully, that answers your question.

就小型零售而言，大多數情況下，公用事業公司不願意參與，而是希望我們直接向客戶供貨。但對於大負荷，我認為與公用事業公司合作是一個非常明智的選擇。希望這能回答你的問題。

Dushyant Ailani, Jefferies.

杜象特‧艾拉尼 (Dushyant Ailani)，傑富瑞 (Jefferies)。

Dan, it was nice working with you, and hopefully, we can see you again. Maybe on the first question, guys, margins for repowering came a little strong. How do you kind of think about that going forward?

丹，很高興與您合作，希望我們能再次見到您。夥計們，也許在第一個問題上，重新供電的利潤率有點高。您對於未來的發展有何看法？

And then my second question is on Tariff, the 100 basis points. that you talked about. What's the sensitivity to that if, let's say, the 90-day pause is over and maybe we revert back to higher tariffs?

我的第二個問題是關於關稅，100個基點。你談到的。假設 90 天的暫停期結束，我們可能恢復更高的關稅，那麼對此的敏感度如何？

Look, in the estimation and everything that we have given you, we are based it on the best current understanding with the tariffs remaining the way they are and balancing it as a portfolio against all the countries that we deal with and everything that's going on. So we stand by those numbers.

你看，在我們給你的估計和一切中，我們都是基於目前最好的理解，關稅保持現狀，並將其作為投資組合與我們打交道的所有國家以及正在發生的一切進行平衡。所以我們堅持這些數字。

We wouldn't likely reiterate that guidance if we didn't have strength in our conviction. So it's a strong conviction that we can represent it. But how we do it is internal to us, but what we will deliver is what I can state with conviction to you. So that's the key part that I want you to understand in terms of where our guidance is.

如果我們的信念不夠堅定，我們可能不會重申這項指導。因此，我們堅信我們能夠代表它。但我們如何做到這一點是我們內在的事情，而我們將實現什麼，我可以堅定地告訴你們。這就是我希望您了解我們的指導方針的關鍵部分。

And then the other question was on repowering.

另一個問題是關於重新供電。

In my script, I just said mix did have an impact on Q1 gross margin, obviously. We won't comment more specifically on mix. Repowerings are part of our business. There's some quarters, there will be some, some quarters, there won't be any, but it is an ongoing part of our business. And we do try to give you some color around that as we think about our guidance for the full year.

在我的腳本中，我只是說組合確實對第一季的毛利率產生了影響，這是顯而易見的。我們不會對混合進行更具體的評論。重新供電是我們業務的一部分。有些季度會有，有些季度則不會有，但這是我們業務的持續組成部分。當我們考慮全年的指導時，我們確實試圖給你一些關於這一點的資訊。

And understand this is part of the reason why Dan had explained how our metrics were changing in the last two scripts. Not every installation, not every customer stuff is the same. There is so much complexity associated with load following, islanded microgrids. And so we take all that into consideration, deal by deal, line by line as we project through the margins.

並且理解這也是丹在最後兩個腳本中解釋我們的指標如何變化的原因之一。並非每個安裝、每個客戶的東西都是一樣的。負載追蹤、孤島微電網具有很大的複雜性。因此，我們在預測利潤時，會逐筆、逐行地考慮所有這些因素。

And again, when we reiterate the guidance, we take that pretty seriously, and it's through that extensive, rigorous analysis, we are giving you those numbers. So yes, your point is well taken. We appreciate it, but we stand by the numbers we gave you.

再次強調，當我們重申指導意見時，我們非常重視這一點，並且透過廣泛、嚴格的分析，我們才為您提供這些數字。是的，你的觀點很正確。我們對此表示感謝，但我們仍然堅持向您提供的數字。

Colin Rusch, Oppenheimer.

奧本海默的科林·拉什。

As you look at some of the stack technology and your ability to multisource critical materials as well as evolve the chemistries, can you talk a little bit about the resilience in the supply chain around some of those critical materials as the trade war starts to heat up a little bit and we kind of go through some ways around what's getting shipped between the US and China?

當您研究一些堆疊技術、多源關鍵材料以及發展化學反應的能力時，您能否談談隨著貿易戰開始升溫，一些關鍵材料供應鏈的彈性，以及我們對美國和中國之間運輸的一些方式進行探討？

Again, a very good question. What you need to understand is none of our critical materials come from contested supply chains or work zones, and there is no China supply chain for us. And with respect to our -- we -- I spoke in my script about commercial off-the-shelf is a small portion of our buy, custom-made parts for us, where we have developed vendors over the last 15 years is what we depend on. They are geographically very diverse.

這又是一個非常好的問題。你需要明白的是，我們的關鍵材料都不是來自有爭議的供應鏈或工作區，我們也沒有中國供應鏈。至於我們——我在我的腳本中談到了商用現貨只是我們購買的一小部分，為我們定制的零件，我們依賴的是過去 15 年開發的供應商。他們的地理位置十分多元。

And we have learned and we have actually firsthand battle tested this strategy of resilience. Bloom never had a part shortage and never shut down a factory once or slowed down an order during the entire time of COVID. So we have actually battle tested this for another scenario. So we feel very strongly that not only will we maintain that now, but we will be able to keep that kind of a discipline as we scale the company many times over.

我們已經學會了並且實際上已經親身實踐檢驗了這個韌性策略。在整個疫情期間，Bloom 從未出現過零件短缺的情況，也從未關閉過工廠或減緩訂單。因此，我們實際上已經針對另一個場景進行了實戰測試。因此，我們強烈感覺到，我們不僅現在能夠保持這種紀律，而且隨著公司規模的擴大，我們也能夠保持這種紀律。

So we built the supply chain not just for today, but for the very large scale that we want to grow to very fast. So extremely confident and huge shout out to our supply chain team and to our Chief Operations Officer, Satish Chitoori, who leads this effort.

因此，我們建立的供應鏈不只是為了今天，而是為了我們想要快速發展的非常大的規模。因此，我們對我們的供應鏈團隊和領導這項工作的首席營運長 Satish Chitoori 充滿信心，並向他們致以最崇高的敬意。

And can you just give us an update on customer traction outside of the US and outside of Korea? There's been a lot of activity in and around end market in Europe as well as some places like Australia. Just curious how your sales efforts are going in both those geographies.

您能否向我們介紹一下美國和韓國以外地區客戶吸引力的最新情況？歐洲終端市場及其周邊地區以及澳洲等地都進行了大量活動。只是好奇您在這兩個地區的銷售工作進展如何。

Sure. So we are focused predominantly right now on a couple of countries in the EU and a couple of countries in Asia. So that's how we think about expansion, and we build a base. This is outside of US and Korea, right?

當然。因此，我們現在主要關注歐盟的幾個國家和亞洲的幾個國家。這就是我們對擴張的想法，以及我們建立基礎的方式。這是在美國和韓國以外的地方，對嗎？

So if you think of Europe, we are targeting right now Italy, Germany and the UK. And if you look at Asia, we are really targeting Taiwan in a major way because the entire AI supply chain, the amount of growth that's happening in Taiwan in the face of them -- in the face of their grid not being able to grow fast enough and deliver power and rising cost of power out there and them depending quite significantly on natural gas as their source of energy, all that fits very well for us. So we are like targeting on those.

所以如果你想到歐洲，我們現在的目標是義大利、德國和英國。如果你看看亞洲，我們確實主要瞄準台灣，因為整個人工智慧供應鏈，台灣面臨的成長量——電網無法快速增長並輸送電力，電力成本不斷上升，而且他們很大程度上依賴天然氣作為能源，所有這些都非常適合我們。所以我們就以這些為目標。

And again, we will see in the next two years, you will see these markets take off and grow. We are strategic. And so we don't take a short-term approach to this. We take a rifle approach to our international growth.

而且，我們將在未來兩年內看到這些市場起飛和成長。我們是有策略眼光的。因此，我們不會採取短期方法來解決這個問題。我們採取激進的方式實現國際成長。

Jordan Levy, Truist Securities.

喬丹·利維（Jordan Levy），Truist Securities。

It's Henry on for Jordan here. Firstly, congrats on the strong quarter, and thank you, Dan, for your work over the last year. Just looking at the domestic C&I side of the business, can you just talk to -- maybe just provide some more color on the power demand concerns there and how that's translating into orders?

這裡亨利代替喬丹。首先，恭喜本季業績強勁，並感謝丹在過去一年中所做的工作。僅從國內商業和工業 (C&I) 業務方面來看，您能否談談——也許只是提供一些關於那裡電力需求問題的詳細信息，以及這如何轉化為訂單？

Yes. On the commercial industrial side, I think what we are seeing right now is most customers coming and talking to us are asking us for islanded power, okay? That's a big shift.

是的。在商業工業方面，我認為我們現在看到的是大多數來找我們的客戶都要求我們提供孤島電力，好嗎？這是一個巨大的轉變。

Interconnection times even for a few megawatts in most of the regions that we operate in seem to be very long, and our customers are seeking islanded power. There, it should be very obvious to you that being in a manufacturing environment, sometimes the factory shuts down or operates at very, very low load during a weekend period depending on what they do, some don't, some do.

在我們營運的大多數地區，即使是幾兆瓦的電力互聯時間似乎也很長，我們的客戶正在尋求孤島電力。在那裡，您應該非常清楚，在製造環境中，有時工廠會在周末關閉或以非常非常低的負載運行，這取決於他們所做的事情，有些工廠不會關閉，有些工廠會關閉。

So the ability to load follow becomes very important. Unlike in the past, when Bloom only offered baseload power, we now are able to offer islanded power. And here is the beauty of it. We say this many times, but not everybody may understand. So let me use your question to tell all of you on the call that we don't require batteries to operate a microgrid to follow our load.

因此負載跟隨能力就變得非常重要。與過去 Bloom 僅提供基載電力不同，我們現在能夠提供孤島電力。這就是它的美妙之處。我們說過很多次了，但不是每個人都能理解。因此，讓我利用你們的問題告訴電話裡的所有人，我們不需要電池來操作微電網來追蹤我們的負載。

That is a huge advantage right now given supply chain challenges with batteries, tariff challenges with batteries and all that. So not only do we not need an interconnection, we don't need batteries, and we can load follow for customers. So that is taking a big traction.

考慮到電池供應鏈面臨的挑戰、電池關稅面臨的挑戰等等，這現在是一個巨大的優勢。因此，我們不僅不需要互連，也不需要電池，而且我們可以為客戶進行負載追蹤。因此，這需要很大的牽引力。

So now let me focus on -- I broke it down for you into two sectors. Let's focus on the large load factories. Here are the numbers, right? All of 2000s and 2010s, the average over those 20 years of construction-related spending related to manufacturing facilities was roughly $85 billion a year, $85 billion a year.

現在讓我集中討論一下——我把它分成兩個部分。我們來重點關註一下大型負載工廠。這些就是數字吧？在整個 2000 年代和 2010 年代，與製造設施相關的建設支出在 20 年內平均每年約為 850 億美元，每年 850 億美元。

That number in '23 and '24, and we expect it to continue in '25 is close to $250 billion a year, 3x that expansion. And these factories are more automated, more roboticized with AI coming in, which means the amount of power per square foot goes up enormously. We see this as a huge growth area.

2023 年和 2024 年的這一數字，我們預計在 2025 年將繼續保持接近每年 2500 億美元的增長速度，是這一增長速度的 3 倍。隨著人工智慧的出現，這些工廠的自動化程度更高、機器人化程度更高，這意味著每平方英尺的功率將大幅提升。我們認為這是一個巨大的成長領域。

This $250 billion that was invested in '23 and '24 that's already invested, those factories are not going to be mothballed. They have to be powered up. They will go on. There could be a few slips in terms of cycles. It comes from the CHIPS Act.

這筆 2023 年和 2024 年投資的 2,500 億美元已經投入，這些工廠不會被封存。它們必須通電。他們會繼續前進。週期方面可能會出現一些失誤。它源自於《CHIPS法案》。

It comes from the Infrastructure Act. It comes from abundance of cheaper energy that customers have today. It comes from shortening the supply chain. All these things are driving that. It's very strong for us.

它來自《基礎設施法案》。它源自於當今客戶擁有的豐富廉價能源。它源自於縮短供應鏈。所有這些因素都在推動這一進程。對我們來說這非常強大。

Now the other side of our C&I business, think of retail that we do big box stores, other people. These are consumer-facing businesses. They are going to stretch out their decision-making cycle in this time of economic uncertainty until they fully understand where it falls. But understand it's a small part of our business, and we have enough diversification. That's how we think about the whole business.

現在我們 C&I 業務的另一面，想想我們為大型倉儲式商店和其他商家經營的零售業務。這些都是面向消費者的企業。在經濟不確定的時期，他們會延長決策週期，直到他們完全了解情況如何。但要明白這只是我們業務的一小部分，而且我們已經夠多元了。這就是我們對整個業務的看法。

Hopefully, that color helps.

希望這種顏色能有所幫助。

No, that's very helpful. And then just a quick follow-up for me. Looking at the margin trajectory during the rest of the year, with the strong first quarter and the reiterated guide, it looks like gross margin will actually be relatively flat, maybe see a little bit of upside during the remainder of the year. I guess just how should we think about that trajectory? And is there any incremental upside from the guidance at this point?

不，這非常有幫助。然後我再簡單跟進。縱觀今年剩餘時間的利潤率走勢，由於第一季表現強勁且重申指引，看起來毛利率實際上會相對持平，甚至在今年剩餘時間內可能會略有上漲。我想我們該如何看待這個軌跡？目前該指引是否還有任何增量上行空間？

No. Again, what I said is what I meant in the script. We are just reiterating guidance at this point in time. And again, look, we are going to have to do a lot of things very innovatively, and we are confident we will do it to make up for any of these tariff issues. And I'm sure you're not on too many calls or too many companies that are saying that in spite of the tariffs, they are not downward revising their margins.

不。再說一遍，我所說的就是我在劇本中想要表達的意思。我們目前只是重申指導意見。再說一次，你看，我們將不得不以非常創新的方式做很多事情，我們有信心我們會做到這一點，以彌補任何這些關稅問題。我相信你沒有接到太多電話，也沒有太多公司表示，儘管有關稅，但他們不會下調利潤率。

And I would say, just to go back to my prepared remarks, remember what I said in the commentary that our mix as well as the level loading, those were both positive impacts on our Q1 gross margin. Obviously, just to reiterate that ability to level load the factory given the strong balance sheet, given the visibility that we believe to have, we made that comment on last quarter's earnings call that we thought that you wouldn't see the sort of more extreme peaks and valleys that you saw in gross margin that we saw last year. So this is a little -- it is relatively consistent with I think that.

我想說的是，回到我準備好的發言，記住我在評論中所說的，我們的組合以及水平負載都對我們的第一季毛利率產生了積極影響。顯然，只是為了重申，鑑於強勁的資產負債表，鑑於我們認為具有的可見性，我們有能力平衡工廠的負荷，我們在上個季度的收益電話會議上發表了這樣的評論，我們認為您不會看到像去年那樣的毛利率出現更極端的高峰和低谷。所以這有點——我認為這與此相對一致。

Chris Dendrinos, RBC Capital Markets.

加拿大皇家銀行資本市場 (RBC Capital Markets) 的 Chris Dendrinos。

Yes. And maybe just to start and follow up on the prior commentary around the tariffs. Could you maybe just provide a bit more detail on where you think there's opportunities to save and sort of what types of things you're looking at?

是的。也許只是為了開始並跟進之前有關關稅的評論。您能否提供更多細節，說明您認為哪些地方有節省的機會，以及您正在關注哪些類型的事情？

So when you look at our -- we have always in the last 15 years, there is a weekly operational review that I sit in where all my direct reports sit in. And we review at any point in time, there are probably 100 cost reduction projects that go on in the company. And we review them routinely on a weekly basis. And every quarter, at least once these projects will get reviewed depending on their criticality. And it's a portfolio approach for us.

所以，當你看到我們——在過去的 15 年裡，我們一直每週都會舉行一次營運審查，我和我的所有直接下屬都會參加。我們回顧一下任何時候的情況，公司內部可能正在進行 100 個成本削減項目。我們每週都會定期進行審查。每個季度，這些項目將根據其重要性至少接受一次審查。對我們來說，這是一種投資組合方法。

And it's never a straight line. There will be a few projects that come in ahead. There will be a few projects that fall behind. There will be unexpected things that happen in like commodity prices, other things. And we manage these things very effectively.

而且它從來都不是一條直線。未來將會有幾個項目陸續推出。將會有少數項目落後。諸如商品價格等都會出現一些意想不到的事情發生。我們非常有效地管理這些事情。

And it is that discipline that has allowed us to continue to keep reducing costs time after time. So there are technology improvements. There are simplification in building the products. There are yield improvements. There are factory improvements.

正是這種紀律使我們能夠一次又一次地持續降低成本。因此，技術得到了改進。產品建置過程已簡化。產量有所提高。有工廠改良。

There are efficiencies we gain from the learning curve, not just in our factories, but with our supply chain partners. We go help them with those learning curves. So because it's really hard to single out any one thing. It is just part of our DNA.

我們從學習曲線中獲得了效率，不僅在我們的工廠，而且在我們的供應鏈合作夥伴中。我們會幫助他們克服這些學習困難。因為真的很難挑任何一件事。它只是我們 DNA 的一部分。

And for 15 years to get double-digit cost reductions almost every single year as an industry of one, right? This is really at the core of what we do every single day. And starting at my level, everybody in the company is focused on this.

作為一個行業，連續 15 年幾乎每年都實現兩位數的成本削減，對嗎？這確實是我們每天所做工作的核心。從我這個等級開始，公司裡的每個人都關注這一點。

And then just recall that everything that K.R. just talked about that we focus on benefits product and it also benefits service, right? So all of that scale, those technology cut-ins, those continuous improvement programs benefit both product and service with a very long tail.

然後回想一下 K.R. 所做的一切。剛才講到我們注重效益產品，也注重效益服務，對嗎？因此，所有這些規模、這些技術切入、這些持續改進計劃都對產品和服務有利，並且具有長遠的效益。

That's a very good point, Dan.

丹，你的觀點非常好。

Got it. And then maybe shifting gears a little bit here. On the utility regulatory environment, I know there's the FERC colocation decision that you all -- or AEP is waiting on the PUC approval process. I guess maybe more broadly, is this maybe sort of a bottleneck or holding back deal flow near term as your customers look for those decisions? Or how is that kind of playing out in your eyes?

知道了。然後也許在這裡稍微改變一下話題。在公用事業監管環境方面，我知道你們所有人都在等待 FERC 的共置決定 - 或者 AEP 正在等待 PUC 的批准流程。我想也許更廣泛地說，當您的客戶尋求這些決策時，這可能是一種瓶頸或阻礙短期交易流程？或者在您看來，這是怎樣的情況？

Very good question again. Look, I know that many of you have been talking to AEP regarding this, and you're getting directly from them. It is better for them to answer from their point of view where things are. They feel very confident that the projects that they've already signed up are going to go through and not have any issues.

又是一個非常好的問題。你看，我知道你們中的許多人已經就此事與 AEP 進行了交談，並且直接從他們那裡得到了信息。他們最好從自己的角度來回答事情的現狀。他們非常有信心，他們已經簽約的專案將會順利進行，不會有任何問題。

And going forward, they have a very robust pipeline of customers that they are talking to and are confident that with what they believe and the reason they chose us is we are a superior technology with a superior value that they can make many more of these transactions. And they have pathways very clearly to be able to satisfy those customers. So that's AEP, and they'll be more than happy to answer more questions from that perspective.

展望未來，他們擁有非常強大的客戶管道，他們正在與他們溝通，並相信憑藉他們的信念和選擇我們的原因，我們可以提供卓越的技術和卓越的價值，他們可以進行更多此類交易。他們有非常明確的途徑來滿足這些客戶的需求。這就是 AEP，他們非常樂意從這個角度回答更多問題。

Now from the customer side, what do they see? I think our large customers are very, very sophisticated when it comes to power and electricity buy. They clearly understand that any arrangement that they can make that does not impact the local rate payer is not only a nice thing to do, but a necessary thing to do if they want to locate their new data centers in a new neighborhood.

現在從客戶的角度來看，他們看到了什麼？我認為我們的大客戶在電力和電力購買方面非常非常老練。他們清楚地認識到，如果他們想在新的社區中建立新的資料中心，那麼他們所做的任何不影響當地納稅人的安排不僅是一件好事，而且是必要的事情。

And our solution becomes extremely useful. For the regulators and the policymakers, it's very clear to them if they do not allow a structure where without affecting the rate payer, they can also provide electricity to these big data centers. Those data centers are not going to be located in their neighborhood and they're going to lose economic development.

我們的解決方案變得非常有用。對於監管機構和政策制定者來說，他們很清楚，如果他們不允許建立一種在不影響納稅人的情況下為這些大型資料中心提供電力的結構。這些數據中心不會設在他們的社區，他們將失去經濟發展。

So the interests are all aligned out here. Our customers see it that way. These are temporary blips in any transition that goes on where the technology and the market is always slightly ahead of regulators. Regulators are catching up.

因此，大家的利益都是一致的。我們的客戶就是這樣看待的。這些都是任何轉型過程中的暫時現象，技術和市場總是略微領先監管機構。監管機構正在迎頭趕上。

Christopher Senyek, Wolfe Research.

克里斯多福‧森耶克（Christopher Senyek），沃爾夫研究公司（Wolfe Research）。

K.R., Dan, good luck on your future endeavors. I wanted to just ask what's the size of the backlog at the end of Q1? And can you help frame the typical size within that backlog?

K.R.，丹，祝你未來一切順利。我只是想問一下第一季末的積壓規模是多少？您能協助確定積壓訂單的典型規模嗎？

We only give backlog comments once a year. That is our policy, and we don't change that. We clearly -- I think I've said this implicitly a couple of times and explicitly once is that when we give -- when we reiterate our guidance on the year, it means that we are very confident about the strong commercial pipeline that we have and our confidence in being able to convert that. So you should take that as a positive signal. But in terms of numbers and commentary, it's once a year.

我們每年僅提供一次積壓評論。這是我們的政策，我們不會改變。我們很清楚——我想我已經含蓄地說過幾次，明確地說過一次，那就是當我們重申我們對今年的指導時，這意味著我們對我們擁有的強大的商業渠道非常有信心，並且我們有信心能夠將其轉化。所以你應該把它看作一個正面的訊號。但從數字和評論來看，它是一年一次。

All right. And then maybe just based on current conversations, do you see the next potential deal coming from utility or perhaps an end user?

好的。那麼也許僅根據當前的對話，您是否認為下一個潛在交易來自公用事業或最終用戶？

Hopefully, both.

但願兩者皆有。

Ameet Thakkar, BMO Capital Markets.

Ameet Thakkar，BMO 資本市場。

Dan, I just want to echo everybody else's sentiments and kind of wish you all the best. Thanks for all the patience over the last year. You guys have been very clear on kind of your lack of exposure to, I guess, kind of Chinese or disputed supply chains. Your prior disclosures did use to highlight the use of scandium in your fuel cell in coatings. I was just wondering if you could kind of share with us where are you sourcing that if it's not from China, given kind of the large percentage of that.

丹，我只是想附和大家的感受並祝你一切順利。感謝您過去一年來的耐心等待。我想，你們已經非常清楚地表明了自己對中國或有爭議的供應鏈缺乏了解。您先前的揭露確實強調了燃料電池塗層中鈧的使用。我只是想知道，考慮到中國所佔的比例很大，您是否可以與我們分享一下，如果不是從中國採購，您是從哪裡採購的。

And then I guess the second question for us or follow-up question is, I was wondering if you could kind of level set us on the kind of the megawatts you've got deployed at the end of last year and kind of where you are at today?

然後我想問我們的第二個問題或後續問題是，我想知道您是否可以向我們介紹一下您去年年底部署的兆瓦數以及您現在的部署情況？

So let me address the scandium question first. And I'll have Dan explain why we changed metrics and how we change metrics right after that. So the first thing for you to know is like number one, we are not dependent on China first. I can state that very clearly, okay, number one.

因此，讓我先解決一下鈧的問題。我會讓丹解釋我們為什麼要改變指標以及我們如何在那之後改變指標。所以你要知道的第一件事是，我們首先不依賴中國。我可以非常清楚地說出來，好的，第一點。

Number two, we get this from multiple geographies and multiple continents. Number three, knowing that we would be the world's largest consumer. This was in 2007, '08 when we were barely shipping units to today when we actually are the largest consumer of that material, we have complete confidence that we have that supply to grow as fast as we need to for the foreseeable future from multiple sources. We don't reveal those sources, and that's part of our IP.

第二，我們從多個地區和多個大洲獲取這些資訊。第三，我們知道我們將成為世界上最大的消費國。那是在 2007 年、2008 年，當時我們的出貨量還很小，而今天我們實際上是這種材料的最大消費者，我們完全有信心，在可預見的未來，我們能夠從多個來源獲得我們需要的供應量快速增長。我們不會透露這些消息來源，這是我們智慧財產權的一部分。

Yes. And just as a reminder, we stopped talking about megawatts shipped in specific periods because we feel like -- number one, it's not how we run the business, and we feel like it's less useful information because every megawatt is not the same cost and price depends on configuration, whether it's sort of baseload only grid interconnected, whether it's islanded microgrid with AI data center load following capabilities. So we feel like it's much less useful information. It's not really apples-to-apples.

是的。提醒一下，我們不再談論特定時期的出貨量，因為我們覺得——首先，這不是我們經營業務的方式，而且我們覺得這些資訊不太有用，因為每兆瓦的成本都不一樣，價格取決於配置，無論是僅與基載電網互連，還是具有人工智慧資料中心負載追蹤功能的孤島微電網。所以我們覺得這些資訊沒那麼有用。這實際上並不是完全一樣的。

We did give a little color in my script again around mix supporting gross margin a little bit in Q1. So we'll expect to hear more that megawatt information. Just it's not how we think about the business. We think about the overall economics of each individual deal and the portfolio of deals that we have as we manage the overall business.

我們確實在我的腳本中再次對第一季的混合支持毛利率進行了一點潤色。因此，我們期待聽到更多有關兆瓦的信息。但這並非我們看待業務的方式。在管理整體業務時，我們會考慮每筆交易的整體經濟狀況以及我們擁有的交易組合。

Sherif Elmaghrabi, BTIG.

Sherif Elmaghrabi，BTIG。

One of the advantages of Energy Services is that they can tap the existing gas network. You've talked about this earlier on the call. But for larger agreements with utilities like the one you signed with AEP, is there a new gas grid infrastructure that needs to be put in place? And if you can characterize the timing around that?

能源服務的優點之一是他們可以利用現有的天然氣網路。您之前在電話中談到過這個問題。但是對於與公用事業公司簽訂的更大規模的協議（例如您與 AEP 簽署的協議），是否需要建立新的天然氣管網基礎設施？您能描述一下當時的時間嗎？

Very good question. Look, I think the main trunks and where the gas flows, there is plenty of flow, but the secondary trunks that go from the high-pressure lines to the medium pressure lines is where -- it depends on where the location is. So it is very location specific, and there is not a single answer to that question. You can be thinking anywhere from a couple of months to six to like nine months, depending on where that location is in order to be able to get that level of gas.

非常好的問題。你看，我認為主幹線和天然氣流動的地方有充足的流量，但從高壓管線到中壓管線的次級幹線在哪裡——這取決於位置在哪裡。所以它與地點密切相關，並且這個問題沒有單一的答案。您可以考慮從幾個月到六個月甚至九個月的時間，具體取決於該位置在哪裡才能獲得該水平的天然氣。

And if you think about how that flows though, Sherif, by the time a customer decides like a large data center that they want to install something and facilitize it, it takes that amount of time for them to facilitize it. So as long as they understand that, that power is needed for them and they place the orders and they are building that data center, this should not be the long pole in the tent. And that is typically what we have seen so far in terms of the data centers and how they go.

Sherif，如果你想想這個過程是怎麼樣的，當客戶決定在大型資料中心安裝某些東西並進行輔助時，他們需要花費大量時間來輔助它。因此，只要他們明白這一點，他們就需要電力，並且他們下訂單並建造資料中心，這不應該是帳篷裡的長桿。這就是我們目前所看到的資料中心及其運作情況的典型情況。

And it's very telling, right? It's very telling that people are getting tuned to this. The large data center operators know this. But if it is not explicit, I thought in the GTC keynote, Jensen Huang from NVIDIA on March 18, made a beautiful statement. It went something like your revenues are power limited. He was talking to his customers. Your revenues are power limited. You could figure out what your revenues will be based on the power you have to work with, okay?

這很有說明力，對吧？人們開始關注這一點，這很能說明問題。大型資料中心營運商深知這一點。但如果這不是明確的，我認為在 3 月 18 日的 GTC 主題演講中，NVIDIA 的 Jensen Huang 做出了一個漂亮的陳述。這有點像你的收入受到限制。他正在和他的顧客交談。您的收入是有限的。您可以根據您所使用的電力來計算您的收入是多少，好嗎？

So when they procure the chips, they know it has to get facilitized, and that's where it's going to go. So gas is available. Is it available in a specific location where the data center is, that extension of gas pipeline. In certain geographies, I think it took longer to permit my guess would be, again, this is my guess, given the understanding of the need to win the AI race and given the current administration's propensity to make sure they make this happen.

因此，當他們採購晶片時，他們知道必須對其進行加工，然後將其運送到那裡。因此有天然氣可用。它是否在資料中心所在的特定位置可用，即天然氣管道的延伸。在某些地區，我認為需要更長的時間才能實現我的猜測，再次強調，這是我的猜測，考慮到對贏得人工智慧競賽的必要性的理解，以及考慮到現任政府確保實現這一目標的傾向。

And again, let me quote Secretary of Energy, Chris Wright, right? He said this is the Manhattan project of our time. If that's the case, I think these gas lines are going to come much faster than data centers are going to get built.

再次，讓我引用能源部長克里斯·賴特的話，對吧？他說這是我們這個時代的曼哈頓計畫。如果真是這樣，我認為這些天然氣管道的建設速度將比資料中心的建設速度快得多。

That's really great color. So second question, there's a Conagra contract announced at the beginning of the month. It's not the biggest, but it's interesting because of its duration. Can you remind us how long energy servers typically last? And to the extent that you can, maybe some specifics about why they were willing to commit to 15 years?

這顏色真是太棒了。第二個問題是，本月初宣布了與康尼格拉的合約。它不是最大的，但由於持續時間長而有趣。您能提醒我們一下能源伺服器通常能使用多久嗎？如果您能的話，能否具體說明他們為什麼願意投入 15 年的時間？

So very good question. We have a lot of contracts, the ranges being anywhere from 5 years to 20 years. A lot of our South Korea contracts are 20 years. Many of our PPAs that we do are 15 or 20 years. So what happens in that cycle, though, is most of our equipment have operating lifetime as certified by independent engineers to be much longer than that, but the fuel cell itself gets replaced.

這個問題問得非常好。我們有很多合同，期限從 5 年到 20 年不等。我們與韓國簽訂的許多合約期限都是20年。我們簽訂的許多電力購買協議的期限都是 15 年或 20 年。因此，在這個循環中，我們的大多數設備的使用壽命都比獨立工程師認證的要長得多，但燃料電池本身會被替換。

And that is the hot box of the field replacement units that we talk about, and we recycle all those parts and put them back on. Today, an average life of those units hover somewhere in the five-year range. So in the Conagra contract, what will happen is their service pricing will allow us to keep replacing these units, assuming that the five-year is the number we're talking about in a 15-year contract, 2x through the life of that contract to be able to fulfill the entire contract while the rest of the system will continue to operate.

這就是我們所說的現場更換單元的熱箱，我們回收所有這些部件並將它們重新放回原位。如今，這些單位的平均壽命徘徊在五年左右。因此，在康尼格拉合同中，他們的服務定價將允許我們繼續更換這些設備，假設五年是我們在 15 年合同中談論的數字，則在合同期限內進行 2 倍更換，以便能夠履行整個合同，而係統的其餘部分將繼續運行。

And the good news about this, right, five years from now, when they get the next hot box, it will be the latest and greatest technology of that time, which will even be better than what we put out today.

好消息是，五年後，當他們得到下一個熱盒子時，它將是當時最新、最偉大的技術，甚至比我們今天推出的更好。

Noel Parks, Tuohy Brothers.

諾埃爾·帕克斯 (Noel Parks)、圖伊兄弟 (Tuohy Brothers)。

I heard you mentioned earlier that the alternative to a Bloom solution, the easy button alternative would be combined cycle gas turbines. And I was sort of surprised because I don't think of those as sort of playing in the -- with the same customers or projects you would be just on the lead time for the ordering of those turbines. So are those realistically competition for your projects, the kind of power projects?

我聽說您之前提到過，Bloom 解決方案的替代方案，簡單的替代方案是聯合循環燃氣渦輪機。我有點驚訝，因為我不認為這些是在玩弄——對於相同的客戶或項目，你只需要在訂購這些渦輪機的準備時間內完成。那麼這些項目，例如電力項目，實際上會對您的項目構成競爭嗎？

No, very good question. Thank you for asking me to clarify that. When I said combustion turbines, I should have been very clear. I was talking about the microturbines, the aeroderivative turbines that are in the 50-megawatt class, 30-megawatt class, not a combined cycle gas turbine.

不，這個問題問得非常好。感謝您要求我澄清這一點。當我說燃燒渦輪機時，我應該說得非常清楚。我談論的是微型渦輪機，即 50 兆瓦級、30 兆瓦級的航空衍生渦輪機，而不是聯合循環燃氣渦輪機。

There are many, many reasons why CCGT will not be a good choice for situations like this, if they are not connected to the grid for them to load follow. And if they're not connected to the grid, remember, they have to be maintained, they have to be shut down. You cannot have a monolithic failure of one unit. So if you build two of those to back it up, all those become super expensive.

有很多原因可以證明，如果 CCGT 不能連接到電網進行負載跟踪，那麼在這種情況下，CCGT 將不是一個好的選擇。如果它們沒有連接到電網，請記住，它們必須進行維護，必須關閉。不能出現單一單元整體故障的情況。因此，如果您建造兩個來支持它，那麼所有這些都會變得非常昂貴。

So most of these 100-megawatt, 200-megawatt solutions you're looking at today, it is tens of microturbines or tens of reciprocating engines that are clustered together is what that solution is. And that is the true competition, a combined cycle gas turbine at a gigawatt scale, there are very few projects. And like you correctly identified, it will take a very long time to put that together. And unless there is grid connection, backing that up becomes a real issue.

因此，您今天看到的大多數 100 兆瓦、200 兆瓦的解決方案都是將數十台微型渦輪機或數十台往復式發動機組合在一起的解決方案。這才是真正的競爭，千兆瓦級的聯合循環燃氣渦輪機專案非常少。正如您正確指出的那樣，要把這些整合起來需要很長時間。除非有電網連接，否則備份就會變成一個真正的問題。

So that's what I meant. Hopefully, that clarifies for you. And in that, both on a cost basis, performance basis, total cost of ownership basis, reliability basis, time to power basis and an environmental impact basis, noise, water use, air pollution, global web.

這就是我的意思。希望這能為您澄清。其中，既有成本基礎，也有性能基礎，總擁有成本基礎，可靠性基礎，通電時間基礎和環境影響基礎，噪音、用水、空氣污染，全球網絡。

Great. It totally clarifies it. And just for data center customers, for on-site expansions versus greenfield new data centers, and I'm thinking of your capacity to deliver 100 megawatts in an acre, is there any difference in sort of the decisiveness or the sales cycle, say, for a cloud vendor who's pursuing one type of project versus another?

偉大的。它完全澄清了這一點。僅對於資料中心客戶而言，對於現場擴展與新建資料中心，我正在考慮在一英畝土地上提供 100 兆瓦的電力，對於追求一種類型專案與另一種類型專案的雲端供應商而言，在決策性或銷售週期方面是否存在差異？

Right now -- that's a very good question. I think within months and quarters, the answer that I would give to you is going to change, okay? That is my true belief. And let me explain to you why, right? As we are speaking, as we are on this call, right, Meta is having their earnings call and what did they say out there.

現在——這是一個非常好的問題。我想在幾個月或幾季內，我給你的答案就會改變，好嗎？這是我真正的信念。讓我向你解釋為什麼，對吧？正如我們所說的那樣，正如我們在這次通話中所說的那樣，Meta 正在召開他們的收益電話會議，他們在那裡說了什麼。

They are upping their amount of infrastructure spend, even from the $60 billion to a higher number. That's going to come from the Magnificent 7, right, the Tech-7 that's building what they build. Add to that, the national imperative that was announced in the White House and what they're going to do with Stargate and things like that. You're looking at $600 billion to $700 billion worth of spend that is being committed to for 2025. That translates to more than 15 gigawatts of power that you're going to need, right?

他們正在增加基礎設施支出，甚至從 600 億美元增加到更高的數字。那將來自 Magnificent 7，對吧，就是正在建造他們所建造的東西的 Tech-7。除此之外，還有白宮宣布的國家要務以及他們將如何處理星際之門之類的事情。預計到 2025 年將投入 6,000 億至 7,000 億美元。這意味著你需要超過 15 千兆瓦的電力，對嗎？

So everybody is counting for whatever power they can get from the utility backups, things like that. And as they saturate, you're not buying these chips at a premium to keep them in cold storage or for safety stock. You have to deploy them. And that's when I think the demand is going to -- the cycles are going to shrink.

因此，每個人都在指望從公用事業備份中獲得任何電力，諸如此類。隨著晶片供應飽和，您不會以高價購買這些晶片，以將其存放在冷藏庫中或作為安全庫存。你必須部署它們。那時我認為需求將會——週期將會縮短。

So I think it's an indirect way to answer your question saying the decision cycles and the need for implementation cycles has to necessarily shrink, if you believe that AI and NVIDIA and everybody is going to grow, right? Those are two correlated statements. One cannot be right and the other one wrong. Does that make sense?

所以我認為這是一種間接回答你問題的方式，如果你相信人工智慧、NVIDIA 和每個人都會成長，那麼決策週期和實施週期的需求必然會縮短，對嗎？這是兩個相關的陳述。不可能一個是對的，一個是錯的。這樣有道理嗎？

Maheep Mandloi, Mizuho Securities.

Maheep Mandloi，瑞穗證券。

Just one question on the tariff impact. I presume your guidance of the 100 basis points of impact you talked about is more on the 10% tariff right now. Just curious like how to think about the impact of these reciprocal tariffs go back to the levels talked about, which you guys are seeing [out] there?

關於關稅影響只有一個問題。我推測您所說的 100 個基點的影響指導更多的是針對目前的 10% 關稅。只是好奇，如何看待這些互惠關稅的影響回到你們所討論的水平？

So Maheep, great question. So what we have done is done a thorough detailed portfolio analysis of all our US suppliers, what we procure, how much we procure, what the dollar value cost is, our US manufacturing, the two plants make everything for us. Those don't get impacted.

Maheep，這個問題問得好。因此，我們所做的就是對所有美國供應商進行徹底詳細的組合分析，包括我們採購什麼、採購多少、美元價值成本是多少、我們的美國製造、兩家工廠為我們生產一切。這些都不會受到影響。

Then we have taken into account what countries we procure from and what flexibility we have of moving temporarily from one place to another to optimize for where we need to go. So it is through that detailed analysis, rolling it up to material costs versus other costs and then looking at that impact and then totally translating that to gross margin. So it's a very detailed analysis based on which we have come up with that number and that's the 100 basis points.

然後，我們考慮了我們從哪些國家採購，以及我們可以從一個地方臨時轉移到另一個地方的靈活性，以優化我們需要去的地方。因此，透過詳細的分析，將其匯總到材料成本與其他成本之間，然後查看其影響，然後將其完全轉化為毛利率。因此，這是一個非常詳細的分析，我們在此基礎上得出了這個數字，那就是 100 個基點。

And this is not a -- we are not taking a wild guess at it. It is really thought-through process. This is what we think it will be. And again, we are working very hard to mitigate it. That's why as a team, we are committing to keeping our guidance. Thank you very much for that question.

這並不是——我們不會對此進行大膽猜測。這確實是一個深思熟慮的過程。我們認為情況將會如此。我們正在盡最大努力緩解這個問題。這就是為什麼我們作為一個團隊致力於保持我們的指導。非常感謝您提出這個問題。

And looking at the clock, I just want to, again, thank you all for joining us out here. We are off to a great start in 2025. Our momentum is strong. And what you need to think about as you're thinking about Bloom today is very simple. The sale on on-site power being necessary, that brief case is closed. Large customers completely understand they need on-site power.

看著時鐘，我只想再次感謝大家加入我們。 2025年，我們迎來了一個好的開始。我們的勢頭強勁。今天當你思考布魯姆時，你需要考慮的事情非常簡單。由於需要現場電力銷售，所以那個公事包已經關閉。大客戶完全理解他們需要現場電力。

So unlike in the past where we had to ask what's our value proposition vis-a-vis the grid. Today, the real question that you should be asking when you are looking at Bloom is what is our value proposition when it comes to customers absolutely needing on-site power. You shouldn't be asking do they need on-site power. That answer is very clear.

因此，與過去不同，我們必須問我們相對於電網的價值主張是什麼。今天，當您了解 Bloom 時，您應該問的真正問題是，對於絕對需要現場供電的客戶，我們的價值主張是什麼。你不應該問他們是否需要現場電力。答案非常明確。

So you then look at all the attributes that Bloom brings and compare it against the attributes of the alternatives for on-site power. It is not solar. It is not wind, not for those sizes because you can't transmit those electrons. You're left with combustion engines, mature saturated technology whose costs are actually going up if you just look at it. That's what the customers are saying. The prices have actually gone up.

因此，您可以查看 Bloom 帶來的所有屬性，並將其與現場電力替代方案的屬性進行比較。它不是太陽能。它不是風，不是那種大小的風，因為你無法傳遞那些電子。剩下的就是內燃機，這是一種成熟飽和的技術，如果你看一下，它的成本實際上還在上升。這就是顧客們所說的。價格實際上已經上漲了。

And we can compete against that. We can compete with a better product, more reliable, faster, quieter, cleaner. And so that's the way to think about Bloom. We're super excited about what the future holds for us. And we thank you for believing in us and being with us.

我們可以與之競爭。我們可以用更好的、更可靠、更快、更安靜、更乾淨的產品來競爭。這就是思考布魯姆的方式。我們對未來充滿期待。我們感謝您對我們的信任與支持。

This is a great time to be in on-site power business. That's all I can say. Thank you all. Good night.

這是從事現場電力業務的好時機。我只能說這麼多。謝謝大家。晚安。