BlackBerry Ltd (BB) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, and welcome to the BlackBerry Third Quarter Fiscal Year 2023 Results Conference Call. My name is Matt, and I will be your conference moderator for today's call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded for replay purposes. I would now like to turn today's call over to Tim Foote, Vice President of BlackBerry Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

下午好，歡迎來到黑莓 2023 財年第三季度業績電話會議。我叫馬特，我將擔任今天電話會議的會議主持人。 （操作員說明）提醒一下，正在錄製此會議以供重播。我現在想把今天的電話轉給 BlackBerry 投資者關係副總裁 Tim Foote。請繼續。

Thank you, Matt. Good afternoon, and welcome to BlackBerry's Third Quarter Fiscal 2023 Earnings Conference Call. With me on the call today are Executive Chair and Chief Executive Officer, John Chen; and Chief Financial Officer, Steve Rai.

謝謝你，馬特。下午好，歡迎來到黑莓 2023 財年第三季度收益電話會議。今天與我通話的有執行主席兼首席執行官 John Chen；和首席財務官 Steve Rai。

After I read our cautionary note regarding forward-looking statements, John will provide a business update, and Steve will review the financial results. We will then open the call for a brief Q&A session. This call is available to the general public via call-in numbers and via webcast in the Investor Information section at blackberry.com. A replay will also be available on the blackberry.com website.

在我閱讀我們關於前瞻性陳述的警示性說明後，約翰將提供業務更新，而史蒂夫將審查財務結果。然後我們將開始簡短的問答環節。公眾可通過呼入號碼和 blackberry.com 投資者信息部分的網絡廣播收聽此電話會議。 blackberry.com 網站上也將提供重播。

Some of the statements we'll be making today constitute forward-looking statements and are made pursuant to the safe harbor provisions of applicable U.S. and Canadian securities laws. We'll indicate forward-looking statements by using words such as expect, will, should, model, intend, believe and similar expressions. Forward-looking statements are based on estimates and assumptions made by the company in light of its experience and its perception of historical trends, current conditions and expected future developments as well as other factors that the company believes are relevant. Many factors could cause the company's actual results or performance to differ materially from those expressed or implied by the forward-looking statements. These factors include the risk factors that are discussed in the company's annual filings and MD&A. You should not place undue reliance on the company's forward-looking statements. Any forward-looking statements are made only as of today, and the company has no intention and undertakes no obligation to update or revise any of them, except as required by law.

我們今天將發表的一些聲明構成前瞻性聲明，是根據適用的美國和加拿大證券法的安全港條款作出的。我們將使用諸如期望、將、應該、模型、打算、相信和類似的表達方式來表示前瞻性陳述。前瞻性陳述基於公司根據其經驗和對歷史趨勢、當前狀況和預期未來發展的看法以及公司認為相關的其他因素做出的估計和假設。許多因素可能導致公司的實際結果或表現與前瞻性陳述中明示或暗示的結果或表現存在重大差異。這些因素包括公司年度申報和 MD&A 中討論的風險因素。您不應過分依賴公司的前瞻性陳述。任何前瞻性陳述僅在今天作出，除法律要求外，公司無意且不承擔更新或修改其中任何內容的義務。

As is customary during the call, John and Steve will reference non-GAAP numbers in our summary of our quarterly results. For a reconciliation between our GAAP and non-GAAP numbers, please see the earnings press release published earlier today, which is available on the EDGAR, SEDAR and blackberry.com websites.

按照電話會議的慣例，John 和 Steve 將在我們的季度業績摘要中引用非 GAAP 數據。如需我們的 GAAP 和非 GAAP 數據之間的對賬，請參閱今天早些時候發布的收益新聞稿，該新聞稿可在 EDGAR、SEDAR 和 blackberry.com 網站上獲取。

And with that, I'll turn the call over to John.

有了這個，我會把電話轉給約翰。

Thanks, Tim. Good afternoon, everyone, and thanks for joining the call today. This was a quarter where BlackBerry made good progress based on leading indicators for both the IoT and the cyber businesses. BlackBerry beat expectations for both total company revenue and earnings per share. On the IoT side, we saw the business performing very strongly, setting yet another record for design-phase revenues. The strategic decision made over 5 years ago to position QNX as the trusted foundation for high-performance edge compute, especially in auto, is really bearing fruit. On the cyber side, in line of what we saw last quarter, we saw an improvement in the level of churn that we experienced recently. The investment being made in product and go-to-market continue to drive sequential billings growth in our cyber systems.

謝謝，蒂姆。大家下午好，感謝您今天加入電話會議。根據物聯網和網絡業務的領先指標，本季度黑莓取得了良好進展。黑莓公司的總收入和每股收益均超出預期。在物聯網方面，我們看到業務表現非常強勁，創造了設計階段收入的又一個記錄。 5 多年前做出的將 QNX 定位為高性能邊緣計算（尤其是在汽車領域）值得信賴的基礎的戰略決策確實取得了成果。在網絡方面，與我們上個季度看到的情況一致，我們看到最近經歷的客戶流失水平有所改善。對產品和上市的投資繼續推動我們網絡系統的連續賬單增長。

Let me start my review with the IoT business unit. As mentioned, it was another strong quarter. Revenue was $51 million, a 19% year-over-year increase. Gross margin was 80%. Preproduction revenue, that is revenue for developer seat -- development seats and professional services, set another record. This strength is being driven by significant new design wins. In fact, in the first 6 months of this fiscal year, BlackBerry added more new royalty backlog than in any prior 12 month's period.

讓我從物聯網業務部門開始審查。如前所述，這是另一個強勁的季度。收入為 5100 萬美元，同比增長 19%。毛利率為80%。預生產收入，即開發者席位——開發席位和專業服務的收入，再創紀錄。這種優勢是由重大的新設計勝利推動的。事實上，在本財年的前 6 個月，BlackBerry 增加了比之前任何 12 個月都多的新專利費積壓。

And then momentum continued this past quarter with wins in a number of verticals but particularly in the safety critical auto ADAS, advanced driver assist, and digital cockpit domain where we are significantly gaining market share. The largest win in the quarter includes a win with Aptiv to use the QNX Hypervisor and RTOS to power a digital cockpit for a European OEM. Other auto wins include a design with Daimler Truck, an instrument cluster design win with Tier 1 supplier in Marelli, for a leading Japanese automaker and a design with a leading Chinese Tier 1 supplier for an ADAS driver assist module.

然後在上個季度繼續保持勢頭，在許多垂直領域取得勝利，尤其是在安全關鍵的汽車 ADAS、高級駕駛員輔助和數字駕駛艙領域，我們正在顯著增加市場份額。本季度最大的勝利包括與 Aptiv 的勝利，後者使用 QNX Hypervisor 和 RTOS 為歐洲 OEM 的數字駕駛艙提供支持。其他汽車贏得的設計包括與戴姆勒卡車的設計、與 Marelli 的一級供應商為一家領先的日本汽車製造商贏得的儀表組設計以及與一家領先的中國一級供應商的 ADAS 駕駛員輔助模塊設計。

In the quarter, we secured a total of 24 new design wins, with 9 in auto and 15 in the general embedded market or GEM. In GEM, we secured design wins with (inaudible), industrial as well as defense and aerospace. Among the use cases was an autopilot flight controlled system, a naval combat system and a retinal surgery robotics to name just as a few. Looking forward, we continue to see a very strong pipeline of upcoming new designs. We believe that we're in a strong position to convert this opportunity into wins given our recent success rate, a very strong reputation in the market and of course, the strength of our technology.

本季度，我們共獲得 24 項新設計中標，其中 9 項在汽車領域，15 項在通用嵌入式市場或 GEM。在 GEM，我們贏得了（聽不清）、工業以及國防和航空航天領域的設計大獎。用例包括自動駕駛飛行控制系統、海軍作戰系統和視網膜手術機器人等等。展望未來，我們將繼續看到大量即將推出的新設計。我們相信，鑑於我們最近的成功率、在市場上的良好聲譽，當然還有我們的技術實力，我們有能力將這一機會轉化為勝利。

The industry-wide macro backdrop for auto remains mixed. We see strength in China and India, both significant markets for QNX. On the flip side, we see some tightening in North America and Europe, primarily due to ongoing supply chain and some demand challenges. However, it is important to give you some context. While production volume is an important factor in QNX total revenue, the auto industry's significant shift to a software-defined vehicle and the development program that drives this has enabled us to deliver double-digit revenue growth. This quarter was made -- we made a major product announcement for QNX in the cloud.

整個汽車行業的宏觀背景仍然喜憂參半。我們看到了中國和印度的實力，這兩個市場對 QNX 來說都是重要的。另一方面，我們看到北美和歐洲出現了一些緊縮，這主要是由於持續的供應鍊和一些需求挑戰。但是，為您提供一些背景信息很重要。雖然產量是 QNX 總收入的一個重要因素，但汽車行業向軟件定義汽車的重大轉變以及推動這一轉變的開發計劃使我們能夠實現兩位數的收入增長。這個季度已經完成——我們為雲中的 QNX 發布了一個重要的產品公告。

At the Amazon re:Invent conference, AWS announced that QNX will be made available to system supply -- developers via their cloud-native virtual engineering workbench. Being able to access QNX in the cloud greatly reduce the time to market for developers and provide significant additional market reach for BlackBerry. QNX will be accessible by AWS' large and growing community of over 1 million developers across multiple verticals, not just auto. We have very positive feedback from both this demonstration and early access product made available to selected OEMs and Tier 1s. We expect to provide more details on the general availability at CES.

在亞馬遜 re:Invent 大會上，AWS 宣布 QNX 將通過其云原生虛擬工程工作台提供給系統供應商——開發人員。能夠在雲中訪問 QNX 大大縮短了開發人員的上市時間，並為 BlackBerry 提供了顯著的額外市場覆蓋面。 QNX 將可供 AWS 龐大且不斷壯大的社區使用，該社區擁有超過 100 萬名跨多個垂直領域的開發人員，而不僅僅是汽車。我們從該演示和提供給選定 OEM 和一級供應商的搶先體驗產品中獲得了非常積極的反饋。我們希望在 CES 上提供有關一般可用性的更多詳細信息。

Moving now to a new and exciting use cases for our Certicom technology. In the quarter, we delivered a electric vehicle charging station PKI, public key infrastructure solution, for a leading North America automotive OEM. The solution enables the vehicle and EV charging stations to identify and establish trusted connectivity as well as allowing OEMs to meet the new international standard for secure vehicle-to-grid interfaces. This capabilities opens a significant opportunity for BlackBerry to secure critical smart city infrastructure in the future.

現在轉到我們的 Certicom 技術令人興奮的新用例。本季度，我們為一家領先的北美汽車 OEM 交付了電動汽車充電站 PKI、公鑰基礎設施解決方案。該解決方案使車輛和 EV 充電站能夠識別和建立可信連接，並使原始設備製造商能夠滿足安全車輛到電網接口的新國際標準。此功能為 BlackBerry 在未來保護關鍵智能城市基礎設施提供了重要機會。

Given the strength of the IoT business going into Q4, we expect revenue to come in at the high end of the range we provided previously. We are, therefore, now expected our full year revenue outlook to be in the range of $205 million to $210 million, which translate to 15% to 18% year-on-year growth.

鑑於進入第四季度的物聯網業務的實力，我們預計收入將達到我們之前提供的範圍的高端。因此，我們現在預計全年收入前景將在 2.05 億美元至 2.1 億美元之間，這意味著同比增長 15% 至 18%。

Let me now move to IV. Proof-of-concept trials with customer continue to progress well. Product development also remain on track with the latest version released last week as planned. We have some significant product demonstration of IVY this past quarter. Last month, at the Bosch Connected World in Berlin, the IVY platform was running in a Peugeot car and enabling predictive maintenance, in-car payments and Amazon Alexa virtual assistant applications.

現在讓我轉到 IV。與客戶的概念驗證試驗繼續進展順利。產品開發也按計劃在上週發布了最新版本。上個季度，我們對 IVY 進行了一些重要的產品展示。上個月，在柏林的博世互聯世界，IVY 平台在標致汽車中運行，支持預測性維護、車內支付和亞馬遜 Alexa 虛擬助手應用程序。

IVY was also shown operating in the cloud at the AWS re:Invent conference in Las Vegas, and the developer workshop held there were well attended by OEM and Tier 1s. Feedback from both events was very positive.

在拉斯維加斯舉行的 AWS re:Invent 大會上，IVY 還展示了在雲中運行的情況，OEM 和一級供應商參加了在那裡舉行的開發者研討會。兩次活動的反饋都非常積極。

We also added a new application from Roadside Telematics to the IVY ecosystem this quarter. Roadside Telematics is the California-based start-up aiming to use sensor data from BlackBerry IVY to provide automatic notification to 911 emergency service in the event of a crash.

本季度，我們還在 IVY 生態系統中添加了 Roadside Telematics 的新應用程序。 Roadside Telematics 是一家總部位於加利福尼亞州的初創公司，旨在使用來自 BlackBerry IVY 的傳感器數據在發生碰撞時向 911 緊急服務提供自動通知。

Let me now turn to our Cybersecurity business. Revenue for the quarter was $106 million. On a sequential basis, billing increased for the second consecutive quarter to $103 million. Gross margin was 57%. ARR was $313 million. The dollar-based net retention rate was 84%. In line with our comment last quarter, we see signs that the investment in product and people are starting to pay off. The rate of churn seen recently has improved this quarter with an uptick in renewal rates and with it, an improved quarter-over-quarter change in ARR.

現在讓我談談我們的網絡安全業務。本季度收入為 1.06 億美元。按順序計算，賬單連續第二個季度增長至 1.03 億美元。毛利率為 57%。 ARR 為 3.13 億美元。基於美元的淨保留率為 84%。根據我們上個季度的評論，我們看到了對產品和人員的投資開始產生回報的跡象。最近看到的流失率在本季度有所改善，續訂率上升，ARR 的環比變化也有所改善。

Turning now a bit to the macro environment. We've seen the same as many other software companies, including those in cybersecurity, in noticing some elongation of sales cycles during the past quarters. Therefore, it is likely that the macro environment will be a headwind for the business in the near term, although we're likely to fare better than most given our heavy skew towards regulated customers, particularly government. Furthermore, cybersecurity still remains an essential purchase.

現在轉向宏觀環境。與許多其他軟件公司（包括網絡安全公司）一樣，我們注意到過去幾個季度的銷售週期有所延長。因此，宏觀環境很可能在短期內對業務造成不利影響，但鑑於我們嚴重偏向受監管的客戶，尤其是政府客戶，我們的表現可能會好於大多數公司。此外，網絡安全仍然是一項必不可少的採購。

Touching briefly on the OEM market specifically. This past quarter, industry analysts noted increased adoption of UEM solution in regulated environment. In the quarter, despite the macro challenges, we secured a great number of multiyear transactions than previously. This includes both renews and account expansions. The customer includes some of those with the highest security needs anywhere in the world, such as multiple agency in the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency and the National Guard, also the U.S. Missile Defense Agency, the pan-European missile system company, MBDA, as well as the NATO headquarter, who also approved our BlackBerry secure voice solution for official NATO communications.

具體簡要介紹一下 OEM 市場。上個季度，行業分析師指出，在受監管的環境中，UEM 解決方案的採用率有所提高。在本季度，儘管面臨宏觀挑戰，我們還是獲得了比以往更多的多年期交易。這包括續訂和帳戶擴展。客戶包括世界上任何地方安全需求最高的一些機構，例如美國國土安全部、美國國防情報局和國民警衛隊的多個機構，還有美國導彈防禦局、泛歐導彈系統公司 MBDA 以及北約總部，他們還批准了我們用於北約官方通信的黑莓安全語音解決方案。

Also, within government were shared service Canada, the U.S. Department of Justice, the FBI, the U.S. Department of Treasury as well as the U.S. Department of Energy. Outside of North America, we secured business with Australian Federal Court, the Government of Iceland, the Government of Wales, Scottish police and the German Ministry of Home Affairs.

此外，在政府內部共享服務的有加拿大、美國司法部、聯邦調查局、美國財政部以及美國能源部。在北美以外，我們與澳大利亞聯邦法院、冰島政府、威爾士政府、蘇格蘭警方和德國內政部取得了業務往來。

In financial services, we did business with Bank of China, Credit Agricole, Blackstone investment management, Singapore DBS Bank, German KfW Bank as well as the German Federal State Bank. Finally, I'll mention that we continue to win in other verticals, too, with examples including Johnson & Johnson; a leading law firm, Sullivan & Cromwell, as well as Switzerland ABB, a leading electric equipment manufacturer.

在金融服務方面，我們與中國銀行、法國農業信貸銀行、黑石投資管理、新加坡星展銀行、德國復興信貸銀行以及德國聯邦國家銀行都有業務往來。最後，我要提一下，我們在其他垂直領域也繼續取得勝利，例如強生；領先的律師事務所 Sullivan & Cromwell，以及領先的電氣設備製造商瑞士 ABB。

Some of you will hopefully have joined us for our Security Summit at the New York Stock Exchange in October. During the event, we announced the launch of a cyber threat intelligence subscription services that will provide customers with tailored threat briefings. This service will launch in January, and the initial response has been positive, particularly from the government agencies.

希望你們中的一些人參加我們 10 月份在紐約證券交易所舉行的安全峰會。活動期間，我們宣布推出網絡威脅情報訂閱服務，為客戶提供量身定制的威脅簡報。這項服務將於 1 月推出，初步反應是積極的，尤其是來自政府機構的反應。

Turning to outlook. We expect to see improvement in both customer churn and new local acquisition continuing next quarter. We are not changing our outlook for cyber revenue and billings, but as previously mentioned, Q4 outlook include some large potential government deals that the team is working hard to close.

轉向展望。我們預計下個季度客戶流失和新的本地收購將繼續改善。我們不會改變對網絡收入和賬單的展望，但如前所述，第四季度展望包括團隊正在努力完成的一些大型潛在政府交易。

As always, with larger deal of this nature, timing can be predictable. However, regardless of whether we're able to close these deals in time for Q4 or if they slip in Q1, we expect to deliver sequential billings growth in the quarter. This would mean sequential billing growth for the third quarter in a row. What's more, we currently expect to see the value of billings in Q4 exceeding revenue. This is a strong leading indicator, and we expect a return to ARR growth in the second half of next fiscal year.

與往常一樣，對於這種性質的較大交易，時間是可以預測的。然而，無論我們是否能夠在第四季度及時完成這些交易，或者它們是否在第一季度下滑，我們都希望在本季度實現連續的賬單增長。這將意味著連續第三個季度的連續賬單增長。更重要的是，我們目前預計第四季度的賬單價值將超過收入。這是一個強有力的領先指標，我們預計下一財年下半年 ARR 將恢復增長。

Let me now move to licensing. Revenue in the quarter came in higher than expected at $12 million. Gross margin was 67%. In the quarter, we recognized revenue related to royalties from past licensing deals, and they came in stronger than expected.

現在讓我轉向許可。該季度的收入高於預期，為 1200 萬美元。毛利率為 67%。在本季度，我們確認了與過去許可交易的特許權使用費相關的收入，而且收入強於預期。

Let me now turn the call over to Steve, who will provide more details on our financial.

現在讓我將電話轉給史蒂夫，他將提供有關我們財務的更多詳細信息。

Thank you, John. As usual, my comments on our financial performance for the third quarter will be in non-GAAP terms unless otherwise noted. Total company revenue for the quarter was $169 million. Total company gross margin was 64%. Operating expenses for the third quarter were $137 million. These non-GAAP operating expenses exclude $56 million fair value gain on the convertible debentures, $22 million in amortization of acquired intangibles and $8 million in stock compensation expense. BlackBerry remains in a targeted investment mode, meaning our capital allocation strategy is for aggressive investment in our IoT business to capitalize on the strong opportunities we see in front of us there and for strategic investments in our Cybersecurity business to drive both top line growth as well as deliver profitability.

謝謝你，約翰。與往常一樣，除非另有說明，否則我對我們第三季度財務業績的評論將採用非 GAAP 條款。本季度公司總收入為 1.69 億美元。公司總毛利率為64%。第三季度的運營費用為 1.37 億美元。這些非 GAAP 運營費用不包括 5600 萬美元的可轉換債券公允價值收益、2200 萬美元的收購無形資產攤銷和 800 萬美元的股票補償費用。 BlackBerry 仍處於有針對性的投資模式，這意味著我們的資本配置策略是積極投資我們的物聯網業務，以利用我們在我們面前看到的強大機會，以及對我們的網絡安全業務進行戰略投資，以推動收入增長作為提供盈利能力。

These investments are discretionary and can be eased back if required. This strategy is starting to pay off with IoT winning record levels of new designs and the trajectory of the cyber business improving. Given these investments, we continue to expect manageable EPS loss and cash usage in the near term. The GAAP operating loss for the third quarter was $2 million, and the non-GAAP operating loss was $28 million.

這些投資是可自由支配的，如果需要可以減少。隨著物聯網贏得新設計的創紀錄水平和網絡業務軌蹟的改善，這一戰略開始得到回報。鑑於這些投資，我們繼續預計短期內每股收益損失和現金使用量可控。第三季度的 GAAP 運營虧損為 200 萬美元，非 GAAP 運營虧損為 2800 萬美元。

Now turning to the balance sheet and cash flow. Total cash, cash equivalents and investments were $505 million at November 30, 2022. Free cash usage in the quarter before accounting for the settlement of a prior legal case was $22 million.

現在轉向資產負債表和現金流量。截至 2022 年 11 月 30 日，現金、現金等價物和投資總額為 5.05 億美元。在解決之前的法律案件之前，本季度的自由現金使用量為 2200 萬美元。

That concludes my comments, and I'll turn the call back to John.

我的評論到此結束，我會將電話轉回給約翰。

Okay. Thank you, Steve. Before we open up the line for Q&A, let me recap on the key messages. We are pleased with the progress made -- sorry, because I think Steve had missed a few points in his notes. Anyway, we're pleased with the progress made by both of our core business units this quarter. The IoT business unit continues to deliver strong 19% year-over-year revenue growth despite a macro headwind. The Cybersecurity business unit trajectory is progressing with the improved level of churn and increased in multiyear deals as well as new logos.

好的。謝謝你，史蒂夫。在我們打開問答熱線之前，讓我回顧一下關鍵信息。我們對取得的進展感到高興——抱歉，因為我認為史蒂夫在他的筆記中遺漏了幾點。無論如何，我們對本季度兩個核心業務部門取得的進展感到滿意。儘管面臨宏觀逆風，物聯網業務部門仍繼續實現 19% 的強勁收入同比增長。網絡安全業務部門的發展軌跡隨著客戶流失率的提高、多年期交易的增加以及新標識的增加而取得進展。

And finally, a quick update on the IP patent portfolio sale. As we said before, there are 2 main interested parties. I'm pleased to say the tremendous progress has been made with both of them. Catapult, who you know, now has a motivated financing partners lineup and all parties are currently negotiating the final documents. The second party is a large PE firm that doesn't need external financing. They have completed their due diligence, and term sheets discussions are well advanced. We obviously will keep you updated as things progress.

最後，快速更新知識產權專利組合銷售。正如我們之前所說，有兩個主要的利益相關方。我很高興地說，他們兩個都取得了巨大的進步。眾所周知，Catapult 現在擁有積極的融資合作夥伴陣容，各方目前正在就最終文件進行談判。乙方是一家不需要外部融資的大型PE公司。他們已經完成了盡職調查，條款清單的討論也進展順利。隨著事情的進展，我們顯然會及時通知您。

That concludes my remarks. Matt, could you please open the line for Q&A?

我的發言到此結束。馬特，你能打開問答熱線嗎？

(Operator Instructions) And our first question will come from Luke Junk with Baird.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題將來自 Luke Junk 和 Baird。

A couple of questions related to the IoT business. First, John, can you give any additional color on the subcomponents of your auto software business and IOT, specifically if there's anything you'd be able to add on the preproduction parts of that business, of course? But also be interested in any commentary on royalty trends looking forward and how that might lay out over the next few quarters or into next year in terms of launch activity that you have a line of sight to in that business.

與物聯網業務相關的幾個問題。首先，John，你能否為你的汽車軟件業務和 IOT 的子組件添加任何額外的顏色，特別是如果你可以在該業務的預生產部分添加任何內容，當然？但也對任何關於未來特許權使用費趨勢的評論感興趣，以及在接下來的幾個季度或明年在您對該業務有視線的發布活動方面可能如何佈局。

It didn't come across clearly. Luke?

沒看清楚。盧克？

So yes, this is Luke from Baird. Breaking down IoT revenue, you've obviously said that the preproduction piece is at record levels. Any other comments, I'm guessing, around royalties?

所以是的，這是來自 Baird 的 Luke。打破物聯網收入，你顯然已經說過預生產件處於創紀錄水平。我猜還有關於版稅的其他評論嗎？

I could tell you a typical year -- typical quarter or year, actually in -- our general guideline is about 40% of our revenue coming from royalty, 40% coming from developer seats as well professional. And then -- sorry, and then 20% come from more -- come from services. That's kind of our rule of thumb. It didn't come across very clear on the microphone. So Luke, sorry about -- so if you could...

我可以告訴你一個典型的年份——典型的季度或年份，實際上是在——我們的一般指導方針是我們收入的 40% 來自版稅，40% 來自開發者席位以及專業人士。然後——抱歉，還有 20% 來自更多——來自服務。這是我們的經驗法則。它在麥克風上聽得不是很清楚。盧克，抱歉——如果你能……

Perhaps the question, Luke, if I can rephrase is, is there any color on royalties given the strength that we've seen in design phase with preproduction rise.

也許這個問題，盧克，如果我可以改寫一下，鑑於我們在設計階段看到的強度隨著預生產的增加，版稅是否有任何顏色。

Well, I mean, royalty is pretty much tied to production. The industry auto production basically were proportionately about the same, meaning that we expect, what, $85 million cost being built this year. So it's a little -- probably about 10%, 15% down from previous pre-COVID years. So that gives you some guideline of what the royalty is like.

好吧，我的意思是，版稅與生產密切相關。行業汽車產量基本上按比例大致相同，這意味著我們預計今年將建造 8500 萬美元的成本。所以它有點——可能比 COVID 之前的前幾年下降了 10%、15%。因此，這為您提供了一些關於版稅是什麼樣子的指南。

Our next question will come from Mike Walkley with Canaccord Genuity.

我們的下一個問題將來自 Mike Walkley 和 Canaccord Genuity。

Just maybe a follow-up on the IoT question. Just based on some of the record level you're seeing for the design-phase revenue and particularly in ADAS, as these cars go into production in future years, how should investors think about maybe the magnitude of royalty per car versus a current infotainment system today?

也許只是物聯網問題的後續行動。僅基於您所看到的設計階段收入的一些創紀錄水平，特別是在 ADAS 中，隨著這些汽車在未來幾年投入生產，投資者應該如何考慮每輛汽車的特許權使用費與當前信息娛樂系統相比的規模今天？

Yes. So yes, that's good question. So the ARPU, which is you're asking basically, the ARPU questions, our targeted ARPU remains to be $25 a car; and of course, because we were quite a big business from it. However, if you look at the infotainment world, the infotainment world now down to probably $1 to $2 a car. On the other hand, ADAS is probably pushing high single-digit dollars, $8, $9 -- $7, $8, $9. So that's how -- and then any newer features, cockpit, clusters, vehicle-to-vehicle communications and stuff, they all have reasonable dollar amount tied to it, certainly a factor about the infotainment.

是的。所以是的，這是個好問題。所以 ARPU，基本上就是你問的，ARPU 問題，我們的目標 ARPU 仍然是每輛車 25 美元；當然，因為我們從中獲得了相當大的業務。然而，如果你看看信息娛樂世界，信息娛樂世界現在每輛車的價格可能下降到 1 到 2 美元。另一方面，ADAS 可能推高個位數美元，8 美元、9 美元——7 美元、8 美元、9 美元。這就是 - 然後是任何更新的功能、駕駛艙、集群、車對車通信和其他東西，它們都有合理的金額與之相關，這當然是信息娛樂的一個因素。

Great. That's helpful. And my follow-up question, just on the Cybersecurity business and more maybe the end point and competitive landscape. I know there's share for Cylance to gain from like the Maxis and Trend Micro, but there are several next-generation competitors that are pretty price aggressive, and they're also talking about elongated deal cycles. So could you kind of update us on what you're seeing and what's giving you that confidence to return to ARR growth in the second half of next year?

偉大的。這很有幫助。我的後續問題是關於網絡安全業務，更多的可能是終點和競爭格局。我知道 Cylance 可以從 Maxis 和 Trend Micro 那裡獲得一些份額，但有幾個下一代競爭對手在價格上相當激進，他們也在談論延長交易週期。那麼，您能否向我們介紹一下您所看到的情況，以及是什麼讓您有信心在明年下半年恢復 ARR 增長？

Yes. We have a pretty elaborate model especially between the cyber business units and the finance organization of the company. And it looks like that returning to ARR second half of next year is quite real -- I mean, ARR growth, sorry, year-over-year ARR growth for the second half of next year, probably pretty stable in the first half. And that's obviously based on the pipeline we have today. We factored in a little bit of the pushout and then, of course, the renewal of some of the government contract.

是的。我們有一個非常精細的模型，尤其是在網絡業務部門和公司的財務組織之間。看起來明年下半年回歸 ARR 是非常真實的——我的意思是，ARR 增長，對不起，明年下半年的 ARR 同比增長，上半年可能相當穩定。這顯然是基於我們今天的管道。我們考慮了一些推出，當然還有一些政府合同的續簽。

One of our challenges is we have so many government contracts, and they typically buy on an annual basis because that's all the budgets they have. And they can only spend what they have approved budgets on. So that's one thing that we face. But on the other hand, the good news in there is that the government customers are quite steady and stable and their buying patterns are pretty steady also.

我們面臨的挑戰之一是我們有如此多的政府合同，他們通常每年購買一次，因為那是他們所有的預算。他們只能花他們批准的預算。所以這是我們面臨的一件事。但另一方面，好消息是政府客戶相當穩定，他們的購買模式也相當穩定。

Great. Maybe one last question, and I'll pass the line. John, just your thoughts on the macro environment heading into next year. You guys have ample cash on the balance sheet and if you end up selling the licensing business, you should have more cash on the balance sheet. But as you look into a challenging macro, how are you guys thinking about balancing investment for growth versus preserving free cash flow?

偉大的。也許還有最後一個問題，我會通過。約翰，請談談您對明年宏觀環境的看法。你們的資產負債表上有充足的現金，如果您最終出售許可業務，資產負債表上應該有更多現金。但是當你研究一個具有挑戰性的宏觀經濟時，你們如何考慮平衡投資以促進增長與保持自由現金流？

Good questions. Where we are right now, you listen to what Steve has outlined, we are in a kind of very careful investment mode. In IoT, we are definitely investing and hiring. We are winning a lot of the deals. I wouldn't say all the deals but a majority of the deals, particularly in the ADAS world and the cockpit world and the Hypervisor world. So we believe the momentum, the kind of the tailwind is there for us, and we wanted to capture it. So we will be hiring engineers. We'll be hiring professional services people. We are expanding our sales force, our partnered programs and everything else.

好問題。我們現在所處的位置，你聽史蒂夫概述的內容，我們處於一種非常謹慎的投資模式。在物聯網方面，我們肯定在投資和招聘。我們贏得了很多交易。我不會說所有交易，而是大部分交易，特別是在 ADAS 世界、駕駛艙世界和虛擬機管理程序世界中。所以我們相信這種勢頭，那種順風就在我們身邊，我們想抓住它。所以我們將招聘工程師。我們將聘請專業服務人員。我們正在擴大我們的銷售隊伍、我們的合作項目和其他一切。

On the cyber side, John Giamatteo is balancing the growth of the ARR and the billings, balancing that with the profitability. So the growth will -- the investment there will still be there but probably will be a little slower and with an eye to the bottom line given the uncertainty of the macro, as you pointed out. So it's kind of a little bit of a tale of 2 cities here. One is just keep growing because we got the momentum. And the other one is we want to do a more balancing, more guarded growth.

在網絡方面，John Giamatteo 正在平衡 ARR 和賬單的增長，平衡其與盈利能力。因此，正如您所指出的那樣，增長將 - 那裡的投資仍將存在，但考慮到宏觀的不確定性，可能會放慢一點，並著眼於利潤。所以這有點像這裡 2 個城市的故事。一個是保持增長，因為我們有動力。另一個是我們希望實現更加平衡、更加謹慎的增長。

Our next question will come from Todd Coupland with CIBC.

我們的下一個問題將來自 CIBC 的 Todd Coupland。

John, can you hear me okay?

約翰，你能聽到我說話嗎？

Yes.

是的。

All right. It sounds like the CIBC internet mic is working fine. I wanted to ask you about -- first on the cyber business. So you're basically saying flat year-on-year in the first half with some growth in the second half. How much more work is needed to bring the updated sales team and whatever other new product bundles you're contemplating to actually get to those ranges that you're talking about?

好的。聽起來 CIBC 網絡麥克風工作正常。我想問你 - 首先是關於網絡業務。所以你基本上是說上半年同比持平，下半年有所增長。需要做多少工作才能使更新後的銷售團隊和您正在考慮的任何其他新產品捆綁包真正達到您正在談論的那些範圍？

I think we are net growing the sales force, meaning that our sales force size is increasing modestly. And so we don't have to have any mysterious program or a very aggressive program of some sort in order to achieve what I just said. I think we all feel pretty comfortable and the cyber business unit feel comfortable they'll be able to be fattish in the first half. Only reason that, that is fattish, by the way, as a reminder, we were expecting growth in the past for the first half, is because of the so-called elongating sales cycle. So we expect it to be fattish for 6 months and then pick up again. And that's really a lot more macro driven rather than us having to do some special things.

我認為我們的銷售隊伍正在淨增長，這意味著我們的銷售隊伍規模正在適度增長。所以我們不需要任何神秘的程序或某種非常激進的程序來實現我剛才所說的。我認為我們都感覺很舒服，網絡業務部門也感覺很舒服，他們可以在上半年變胖。唯一的原因是，順便說一句，提醒一下，我們過去預計上半年會增長，這是因為所謂的銷售週期延長。所以我們預計它會發胖 6 個月，然後再次發胖。這實際上更多的是宏觀驅動，而不是我們必須做一些特殊的事情。

So by and large, I mean, we have a road map of technology but none of the stuff that I talk about, depending on a particular product. I think the products are in pretty good shape. We do need to continue to drive the channel, continue to increase the professional services, particularly the MSP. I think those are the 2 things that needs to happen, but it's part of our plan to make happen anyway. So nothing really special.

所以總的來說，我的意思是，我們有一個技術路線圖，但沒有我談論的東西，這取決於特定的產品。我認為產品的狀態非常好。我們確實需要繼續推動渠道，繼續增加專業服務，尤其是 MSP。我認為這是需要發生的兩件事，但無論如何這是我們計劃的一部分。所以沒什麼特別的。

Okay. That's helpful. And then I had a question on, I guess, the movements on the balance sheet. So I think in the past, the price for the patent licensing business is $600 million. Does that potentially change if the second party comes in? Like if they get into the mix here, is the takeaway that you're going to get to $600 million or possibly higher? Or is it just they get there first and they can close the deal? What's the message on that?

好的。這很有幫助。然後我有一個問題，我想，資產負債表上的變動。所以我認為過去，專利許可業務的價格是 6 億美元。如果第二方進來，這可能會改變嗎？就像他們在這裡混在一起一樣，你會得到 6 億美元或可能更高的收益嗎？或者只是他們先到達那裡然後他們可以完成交易？那是什麼信息？

Yes. I'm sorry. I shouldn't comment on it. I know the questions, and I understand, of course, I have the answer. But it's unfair to both parties while we're negotiating in parallel. So if you don't mind, just hold off on that until we made the announcement. I'm expecting the announcement or the conclusion of this relatively soon.

是的。對不起。我不應該對此發表評論。我知道問題，我明白，當然，我有答案。但同時進行談判對雙方都不公平。因此，如果您不介意，請等到我們發佈公告後再說。我期待相對較快的公告或結論。

I see. But the takeaway is that the confidence level with the second party has gone up from the last time we talked about this, where financing was in question to where it's -- the probability of getting that $600 million is -- has gone up materially with that and then the other -- the initial party getting financing. Is that [fair]?

我懂了。但要注意的是，與我們上次討論這個問題相比，第二方的信心水平已經上升，融資問題到它的位置 - 獲得 6 億美元的可能性 - 已經大幅上升然後是另一個——最初獲得融資的一方。這[公平]嗎？

Yes. Again, I can't go into the structure, but the initial party, the confidence level had -- you're right, had dramatically gone up.

是的。再一次，我不能進入結構，但最初的派對，信心水平已經 - 你是對的，已經急劇上升。

Okay. Should we take away, given the delay in the 2 parties here, that the structure that was announced before is potentially open to some adjustments?

好的。考慮到這裡 2 方的延遲，我們是否應該認為之前宣布的結構可能會進行一些調整？

Very minor.

非常輕微。

I see. Okay. Okay. And then just sort of one follow-up balance sheet question. One of the debentures is due in about a year. Any messaging on paying it down versus refinancing at this point?

我懂了。好的。好的。然後只是一個後續的資產負債表問題。其中一張債券將在大約一年後到期。在這一點上有關於還款還是再融資的消息嗎？

I think we're going to pay it down.

我想我們會付清的。

The message is pay that down. Okay.

消息是付清。好的。

Our next question will come from Trip Chowdhry with Global Equities Research.

我們的下一個問題將來自 Global Equities Research 的 Trip Chowdhry。

This is still a very good quarter considering the backdrop. Two questions, I have. Whenever we are in a recession, the federal government usually opens up their budgets. The budgets increase to offset the collapse of the economy. Have you seen any federal government agency or across the globe who may have at least not reduced their budgets and maybe thinking of increasing their budgets yet? Or you haven't seen anything like that so far?

考慮到背景，這仍然是一個非常好的季度。我有兩個問題。每當我們陷入衰退時，聯邦政府通常都會開放預算。預算增加以抵消經濟崩潰。您是否見過任何联邦政府機構或全球範圍內至少沒有減少預算並且可能正在考慮增加預算的機構？或者你到目前為止還沒有見過這樣的東西？

Well, it's a mixed bag, Trip. So as far as cyber investment, I have not seen government back away from it, particularly the government that we deal with, which is probably about G7, G25 depending on the level that we're at, Five Eyes country, for example. So we have not seen the budget being cut or reduced in IT spending and cyber spending. So that's good news.

好吧，這是一個混合包，Trip。因此，就網絡投資而言，我還沒有看到政府放棄它，特別是我們與之打交道的政府，這可能是關於 G7、G25，這取決於我們所處的水平，例如五眼國家。因此，我們沒有看到 IT 支出和網絡支出的預算被削減或減少。所以這是個好消息。

There are some very selected pockets. NATO, spending a little bit more. Germany is spending a lot more from an IT defense point of view. And Canadian government also spend more and supporting Ukraine for example. So U.S., the money a little bit more driven towards the more social program. So it's kind of a -- I can't give you a yes or no answer. It kind of depends on the various government that we're keeping very close tab with. But on an overall scale, I haven't seen the government reduce their IT budget yet.

有一些非常精選的口袋。北約，多花一點錢。從 IT 防禦的角度來看，德國花費更多。加拿大政府也花費更多，例如支持烏克蘭。所以在美國，更多的錢被用於更多的社會項目。所以這有點——我不能給你一個是或否的答案。這在某種程度上取決於我們密切關注的各個政府。但總體而言，我還沒有看到政府減少 IT 預算。

Very good. Second question, as we are seeing a lot of new vehicles coming into the market and each one of them have at least 2 or 3 features. One, either the screens are really very big in the vehicle or they have multiple screens. Do you think that changes the royalty stream for you like if a vehicle, say, just 3 years, 4 years back only had 1 tiny screen? Now on an average, there are 3 or 4 screens, front entertainment, rear seat entertainment, overhead entertainment, you name it, video conferencing, this, that. Do you think there is a potential to increase some royalties because the multiscreen approach that is new, at least EV manufacturers are bringing to the market? And that's all for me.

非常好。第二個問題，因為我們看到很多新車進入市場，每輛都至少有 2 或 3 個功能。第一，車輛中的屏幕真的非常大，或者它們有多個屏幕。你認為這會改變你的版稅流嗎，比如，如果一輛汽車，僅僅 3 年，4 年前只有一個小屏幕？現在平均有 3 或 4 個屏幕，前座娛樂系統、後座娛樂系統、頭頂娛樂系統，視頻會議等等。您是否認為有可能增加一些專利使用費，因為至少電動汽車製造商正在將新的多屏方法推向市場？這就是我的全部。

Thank you, Trip. I don't believe -- I mean, I don't know, multiscreen will bring me more copies. However, there is a trend in software-defined vehicle, either for redundancy purposes or multi MPU purposes, particularly as the capacity requirement goes up, they are using more copies of QNX. So it is more of an architectural point rather than a display point.

謝謝你，旅行。我不相信——我的意思是，我不知道，多屏幕會給我帶來更多副本。然而，軟件定義車輛有一種趨勢，無論是出於冗餘目的還是多 MPU 目的，特別是隨著容量需求的上升，他們正在使用更多的 QNX 副本。所以它更像是一個建築點而不是一個展示點。

I got it. I got it. I got it. Very nice. And then from the same token, I think if we go from 5G to 6G, the royalty stream because of more use cases and more QNX copies and (inaudible) and resiliency, we may directionally see per vehicle royalties to directionally go up rather than go down.

我知道了。我知道了。我知道了。非常好。然後出於同樣的原因，我認為如果我們從 5G 到 6G，由於更多的用例和更多的 QNX 副本以及（聽不清）和彈性，我們可能會定向看到每輛車的特許權使用費定向上升而不是下降吃下。

Oh, yes. I don't see -- I mean there are 2 points to it. Number one, we have not seen the royalty of QNX going to go down anytime soon. In fact, more copy expected per car and it should -- the revenue should have gone -- should go up. In addition to that, don't forget we have IVY behind it, which are when the capacity goes up, our usage of IVY also goes up. So wait till that get into production. And I'm hopeful that, that will bring us also a good revenue stream.

哦是的。我不明白——我的意思是它有兩點。第一，我們還沒有看到 QNX 的版稅會很快下降。事實上，每輛車預計會有更多的複製品，而且它應該——收入應該已經減少——應該增加。除此之外，不要忘記我們背後有 IVY，當容量上升時，我們對 IVY 的使用也會上升。所以等到它投入生產。我希望這也能為我們帶來良好的收入來源。

Our next question will come from Paul Treiber with RBC Capital Markets.

我們的下一個問題將來自 RBC Capital Markets 的 Paul Treiber。

Just hoping you can speak to, on the cyber business, the mechanics around NDR, which declined sequentially versus your comment on improved churn. Can you speak to some of the moving parts there? And then specifically, can you break out churn or the trends there in terms of UEM versus EPP?

只是希望你能就網絡業務談談 NDR 的機制，與你對改進客戶流失的評論相比，NDR 依次下降。你能談談那裡的一些活動部件嗎？然後具體來說，您能否在 UEM 與 EPP 方面打破流失或趨勢？

Good question. So in general, as we have indicated in the beginning of the year, the churn is coming from the UEM-based small-medium enterprise. We have seen that as a consistent scheme -- consistent theme, but that has slowed down now quite a bit. At least the last quarter, we have seen this slowing. In fact, we are seeing the bigger deal going a little bit more multiyear with us. I think UEM is now definitely stabilized. It's also being viewed more strategic by the market. And Gartner actually recently wrote a note on it, and we are seeing the same thing.

好問題。因此，總的來說，正如我們在年初所指出的那樣，流失來自基於 UEM 的中小型企業。我們已經將其視為一個一致的方案——一致的主題，但現在已經放慢了很多。至少在上個季度，我們看到了這種放緩。事實上，我們看到更大的交易與我們一起進行多年。我認為 UEM 現在肯定已經穩定下來了。市場也認為它更具戰略意義。事實上，Gartner 最近就此寫了一份說明，我們看到了同樣的事情。

Customers are starting to see, to treat UEM, rather than a price item, is now starting to look at it a little bit more strategically, particularly on the cybersecurity side as a factor of the cybersecurity. The last quarter, something had happened that caused the infrastructure, mobile infrastructures management and end point management to be relooked at in importance. You probably know this, obviously. A number of banks in the United States has been fined for using messaging technology that are not the most secure or archiveable. I think that forces all the banks' CIOs starting to look at the completeness of the infrastructure. So obviously, the UEM is a technology that's been around for a long time.

客戶開始看到，對待 UEM 而不是價格項目，現在開始更具戰略性地看待它，特別是在網絡安全方面，將其作為網絡安全的一個因素。上個季度發生的事情導致基礎設施、移動基礎設施管理和端點管理的重要性被重新審視。顯然，你可能知道這一點。美國的許多銀行因使用不是最安全或可存檔的消息傳遞技術而被罰款。我認為這迫使所有銀行的首席信息官開始關注基礎設施的完整性。很明顯，UEM 是一項已經存在很長時間的技術。

This is not just BlackBerry UEM, other established player UEM also obviously. So I'm answering your question in kind of a long roundabout way. The churn slowdown still kind of contained within the SMB in the UEM space. And we -- as I said, we see a slowdown. We haven't seen it anywhere else. We definitely have not seen it on EPP. EPP seems to be holding its own.

這不僅僅是黑莓UEM，其他老牌玩家UEM也很明顯。所以我以一種很長的迂迴方式回答你的問題。 UEM 空間中的 SMB 仍然存在流失放緩。我們——正如我所說，我們看到了放緩。我們在其他任何地方都沒有看到它。我們肯定沒有在 EPP 上看到它。 EPP 似乎有自己的優勢。

That's helpful to understand that. Just on your point about the settlement with the banks, I mean, does it seem like -- when you look at banking or regulated industries, it seems like there's a shift away from bring your own device to corporate-owned devices. Do you see that in other industries other than just banking? And then how do you see that, relatively speaking, helping BlackBerry from a product positioning or from a competitive position?

這有助於理解這一點。就你關於與銀行達成和解的觀點而言，我的意思是，當你看銀行或受監管行業時，似乎正在從使用自己的設備轉向公司擁有的設備。您是否在銀行業以外的其他行業看到過這種情況？那麼相對而言，您如何看待從產品定位或競爭地位上幫助黑莓？

So when the banks go to corporate issued, they are typically looking at high-level security and archiveability, and that's where our strength comes in. So we're known to be the most secure mobile platform that is -- that exists. So -- and I think there's not a lot of debate over that in the industry. So that helped us a lot.

因此，當銀行轉向企業發行時，他們通常會考慮高級別的安全性和可歸檔性，而這正是我們的優勢所在。因此，我們被認為是最安全的移動平台——存在。所以——我認為業內對此沒有太多爭論。所以這對我們幫助很大。

And as far as I'm seeing in the industry, maybe different government branches and law enforcement. I have not seen other major verticals that go to corporate-issued device or at least swing back from a BYOD to corporate-issued devices.

就我在行業中看到的，可能是不同的政府部門和執法部門。我還沒有看到其他主要的垂直行業轉向企業發布的設備，或者至少從 BYOD 轉向企業發布的設備。

I would like to turn the call back over to John Chen, Executive Chair and CEO of BlackBerry for closing remarks.

我想將電話轉回給 BlackBerry 的執行主席兼首席執行官 John Chen 以致閉幕詞。

Okay. Well, thank you. Thank you, operator. As we pointed out, BlackBerry will be at CES in Las Vegas, where we have a number of exciting announcements and demonstration by our IoT business, including the IVY running in a Jeep Cherokee.

好的。嗯，謝謝。謝謝你，運營商。正如我們指出的那樣，BlackBerry 將在拉斯維加斯的 CES 上亮相，我們的物聯網業務將在會上發布許多令人興奮的公告和演示，包括在吉普切諾基中運行的 IVY。

On the 5th of January, BlackBerry will be cohosting a software-defined vehicle award with MotorTrend, a leading auto industry analyst. In fact, if you guys want to get in there, I don't know whether we could -- we have tickets, but please contact Tim. There's a big event on the 5th evening in Vegas. The award recognize those who made outstanding contributions to the automotive industry through software. I know there's been a 19 -- 19 award.

1 月 5 日，黑莓將與領先的汽車行業分析師 MotorTrend 共同舉辦軟件定義汽車獎。事實上，如果你們想進去，我不知道我們是否可以——我們有票，但請聯繫蒂姆。第五天晚上在維加斯有一場盛大的活動。該獎項旨在表彰那些通過軟件為汽車行業做出傑出貢獻的人。我知道有一個 19 - 19 的獎項。

So the following day, by the way, which is the 6th, at 1:00 p.m. Pacific Time, we will be hosting a hybrid investor Q&A session with management at the booth. This event will be streamed, and investor will be able to hear details about the exciting new developments. Please make sure you register for the stream on blackberry.com/investor web page.

所以第二天，順便說一下，也就是 6 號，下午 1:00。太平洋時間，我們將在展位與管理層舉辦混合投資者問答環節。該活動將進行流媒體播放，投資者將能夠聽到有關令人興奮的新開發項目的詳細信息。請確保您在 blackberry.com/investor 網頁上註冊了直播。

Thank you all again for joining today's call, especially those of you on the East Coast, where I know it's getting late. I hope all of you and family have a happy and safe holidays, and see you next year.

再次感謝大家參加今天的電話會議，尤其是東海岸的那些人，我知道那裡已經很晚了。希望大家和家人度過一個快樂安全的假期，明年再見。

This concludes today's call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連接。