Atlantica Sustainable Infrastructure PLC (AY) 2024 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to Atlantica's first-quarter 2024 financial results conference call. Just a reminder that this call is being webcast live on the Internet, and a replay of this call will be available on Atlantica's corporate website.

歡迎參加 Atlantica 2024 年第一季財務業績電話會議。需要提醒的是，本次電話會議正在網路上進行現場直播，而本次電話會議的重播將在 Atlantica 的公司網站上提供。

Atlantica will be making forward-looking statements during this call, which are based on current expectations and assumptions and are subject to risks and uncertainties. Actual results could differ materially from our forward-looking statements if any of our key assumptions are incorrect or because of other factors, including the Risk Factors section of the accompanying presentation and in our latest reports and filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. All of which can be found on our website. Atlantica does not undertake any duty to update any forward-looking statements.

Atlantica 將在本次電話會議中做出前瞻性陳述，這些陳述基於當前的預期和假設，並受風險和不確定性的影響。如果我們的任何關鍵假設不正確或由於其他因素（包括隨附簡報中的風險因素部分以及我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的最新報告和文件），實際結果可能與我們的前瞻性聲明有重大差異。所有這些都可以在我們的網站上找到。Atlantica 不承擔更新任何前瞻性聲明的義務。

Joining us for today's conference call are Atlantica's CEO, Santiago Seage; and the CFO, Francisco Martinez-Davis. As usual, at the end of the conference call, we will open the lines for the Q&A session.

參加今天的電話會議的有 Atlantica 的執行長 Santiago Seage；以及財務長 Francisco Martinez-Davis。像往常一樣，在電話會議結束時，我們將開放問答環節。

I will now pass you over to Mr. Seage. Please, sir, go ahead.

現在我將您交給 Seage 先生。先生，請繼續。

Good morning. Thank you very much for joining us for our first-quarter 2024 conference call. I will start with a few high-level messages.

早安.非常感謝您參加我們的 2024 年第一季電話會議。首先我想說幾句高層的話。

As you have seen in the first quarter and compared versus the same period last year, revenue remained stable while adjusted EBITDA decreased by 0.9%, excluding the effect of the unscheduled outage that we discussed last quarter. Operating cash flow increased by a 57% year-over-year up to close to $66 million.

正如您在第一季度看到的，與去年同期相比，收入保持穩定，而調整後的 EBITDA 下降了 0.9%，不包括我們上個季度討論的非計劃停電的影響。經營現金流較去年同期成長57%，達到近6,600萬美元。

In terms of growth and new projects, we recently signed a 15-year PPA for a new 100-megawatt solar plus storage project in California, and we completed -- among other projects, we completed the acquisition of two operating wind assets in the UK.

在成長和新項目方面，我們最近簽署了一份為期15 年的電力購買協議，用於加州一個100 兆瓦的新太陽能加儲能項目，並且我們完成了——除其他項目外，我們還完成了英國兩處營運風電資產的收購。

I will now turn the call to Francisco, who will take us through our financial results.

現在我將電話轉給弗朗西斯科，他將向我們介紹我們的財務表現。

Thank you, Santiago. Good morning to everyone. Please turn the slide 4, where I present our key financials for the first quarter of 2024.

謝謝你，聖地牙哥。大家早安。請翻到投影片 4，我將在其中介紹我們 2024 年第一季的主要財務狀況。

Revenue remained stable at $242.9 million, compared with $242.5 million in the first quarter of 2023. The increase in revenue in our assets in North America was offset by the outage at Kaxu that we mentioned last quarter. As a reminder, the plant restarted operations in mid-February, and the damage and business interruption is covered by our insurance policy after a 60-day deductible.

營收保持穩定，為 2.429 億美元，而 2023 年第一季為 2.425 億美元。我們上個季度提到的 Kaxu 停電抵消了北美資產收入的成長。提醒一下，工廠已於 2 月中旬恢復運營，在扣除 60 天免賠額後，我們的保險單將承保損失和業務中斷。

Adjusted EBITDA was $164.2 million, representing a 0.9% decrease compared with the same period last year, excluding the impact of the outage at Kaxu. Regarding cash available for distribution, we generated $50.9 million in the first quarter of 2024.

調整後 EBITDA 為 1.642 億美元，較去年同期下降 0.9%，不包括 Kaxu 停電的影響。關於可供分配的現金，我們在 2024 年第一季產生了 5,090 萬美元。

On the following slide, number 5, you could see our performance by geography and business sector. In North America, revenue increased 18% to $86.2 million in the first quarter of 2024 compared to the same period of last year, and EBITDA increased 6% to $55 million. Production increased in our solar assets in the US.

在下面第 5 張投影片中，您可以看到我們按地區和業務部門劃分的表現。在北美，2024年第一季營收較去年同期成長18%至8,620萬美元，EBITDA成長6%至5,500萬美元。我們在美國太陽能資產的產量增加。

In South America, both revenue and EBITDA increased 2% compared with the first three months of 2023, up to $44.7 million and $34.6 million, respectively, mainly due to inflation in the indexation mechanism in most of our contracts. In the EMEA region, revenue decreased 11% to $112 million, versus the same period of 2023, mostly due to the unscheduled outage at Kaxu. Looking below at the results by business sectors, we can see similar effects.

在南美，收入和 EBITDA 與 2023 年前三個月相比均增長了 2%，分別達到 4,470 萬美元和 3,460 萬美元，這主要是由於我們大多數合約中的指數化機制出現了通貨膨脹。在 EMEA 地區，營收與 2023 年同期相比下降 11% 至 1.12 億美元，主要原因是 Kaxu 發生計劃外停電。從以下按業務部門劃分的結果來看，我們可以看到類似的效果。

Let's now please turn to slide number 6, where we will review our operational performance. Electricity produced by renewable assets reached 1,063 gigawatt hours in the first three months of 2024, a decrease of 11% versus the same period 2023, mainly due to a decrease in Kaxu and lower solar radiation in Spain. On the other hand, production in our solar assets in the US increased by 16% thanks to better performance at Solana.

現在請翻到第 6 張投影片，我們將在這裡回顧我們的營運績效。2024 年頭三個月，再生能源發電量達到 1,063 吉瓦時，較 2023 年同期下降 11%，主要原因是西班牙 Kaxu 減少和太陽輻射降低。另一方面，由於 Solana 業績表現優異，我們在美國太陽能資產的產量增加了 16%。

Looking at our availability-based contracts, our efficient natural gas and heat segment as well as our water assets and transmission lines continue to achieve very high availability levels in the first quarter of 2024.

從我們基於可用性的合約來看，我們高效的天然氣和熱力部門以及水資產和輸電線路在 2024 年第一季繼續實現非常高的可用性水準。

On the next slide, number 7, we will take a look at our cash flow. In the first quarter of 2024, operating cash flow reached $65.6 million, an increase of 57%, compared to the same period last year mostly thanks to an improvement in changes in working capital. Net cash used in investing activities in the first quarter of 2024 includes $84.4 million of investments, corresponding to the acquisition of two operating wind assets in the United Kingdom and approximately $22 million in investment in assets under construction development.

在下一張投影片（第 7 張）中，我們將了解我們的現金流。2024年第一季度，營運現金流達6,560萬美元，較去年同期成長57%，主要歸功於營運資本變動的改善。2024 年第一季投資活動所使用的淨現金包括 8,440 萬美元的投資，相當於收購英國兩項營運風電資產，以及對在建資產開發約 2,200 萬美元的投資。

I will now turn the call back over to Santiago.

我現在將電話轉回聖地牙哥。

Thank you, Francisco. During this first quarter of 2024, we have continued to make progress in our growth strategy that, as you know, is focused on developing and building new contracted projects while complementing that with acquisitions whenever returns are attractive enough.

謝謝你，弗朗西斯科。在 2024 年第一季度，我們繼續在成長策略方面取得進展，如您所知，該策略專注於開發和建造新的合約項目，同時在回報足夠吸引人時透過收購進行補充。

Following that strategy, we have signed a 15-year PPA with an investment-grade off-taker for a new 100-megawatt PV plus storage project in Southern California. The project is located fairly close to several of our large assets in operation in California and Arizona and to three projects we are building or close to start building in the area.

依照這項策略，我們與一家投資級承購商簽署了一份為期 15 年的 PPA，將在南加州建造一個全新的 100 兆瓦光伏及儲能項目。該項目距離我們在加利福尼亞州和亞利桑那州運營的幾個大型資產以及我們在該地區正在建設或即將開始建設的三個項目相當近。

As you can see, we continue to build volume in the Southwest, an area where we have critical mass and where we can achieve synergies. We expect this project to reach ready-to-build stage later this year.

正如您所看到的，我們繼續在西南地區擴大業務量，在該地區我們已達到臨界規模並能實現協同效應。我們預計該項目將在今年稍後進入建設階段。

In addition, during the quarter, we have acquired our first two wind assets in the UK, as we have mentioned. The assets are regulated and have no project debt as of today. The price of the investment represented a 6.6 times EV-to-EBITDA multiple, and this investment should allow us to use the net operating losses carry forwards that we have in the UK, reaching what we believe is an attractive after-tax return for the investment.

此外，正如我們所提到的，在本季度，我們在英國收購了前兩項風電資產。這些資產受到監管，截至今天沒有項目債務。投資價格相當於 EV 與 EBITDA 比率的 6.6 倍，這項投資應該使我們能夠利用我們在英國的淨營業虧損結轉，達到我們認為有吸引力的稅後回報。

If we look at other geographies, I will make a comment about a project in Chile as an example of how repowering existing renewable energy assets with storage can add value. The Chile PV 3 plant signed a 10-year PPA, including the battery storage expansion currently under construction.

如果我們看看其他地區，我會對智利的一個專案發表評論，作為如何透過儲存為現有再生能源資產提供動力可以增加價值的一個例子。智利PV 3工廠簽署了一份為期10年的PPA，其中包括目前正在建造的電池儲存擴建計畫。

Chile is one of those markets where storage clearly allows to capture higher returns through higher PPA pricing. As you know, more or less a 40% of our pipeline is in storage. And that is simply because we continue to see an increasing opportunity for storage in several of our key markets, both storage in combination with existing or new renewable energy assets or as standalone. As you know, Chile PV 3 is a PV asset in operation where we are building a battery repowering or expansion.

智利是這樣的市場之一，透過提高 PPA 定價，儲存顯然能夠獲得更高的回報。如您所知，我們的管道大約有 40% 處於儲存狀態。這是因為我們繼續看到我們幾個主要市場的存儲機會不斷增加，既包括與現有或新的可再生能源資產相結合的存儲，也包括獨立的存儲。如您所知，智利 PV 3 是一個正在運作的光伏資產，我們正在對其進行電池再供電或擴建。

Regarding the sale of our stake in Monterrey, it recently closed and we expect proceeds of, more or less, $43 million subject to a number of things you see there. And additionally, there is a earn-out mechanism that could result in additional proceeds in the future.

關於我們在蒙特雷的股份的出售，該交易最近已完成，我們預計收益約為 4,300 萬美元，具體取決於您在此處看到的一些因素。此外，還有一種獲利機制，可能在未來帶來額外收益。

And a final point before we move to Q&A. We are aware of market and media speculation around Atlantica. And following past practice, we will not make any comments regarding that.

在我們進入問答環節之前，還有最後一點。我們了解市場和媒體對 Atlantica 的猜測。按照慣例，我們不會對此發表任何評論。

With this, we conclude today's presentation. Thanks for joining us. We will now open the line for questions. Operator, we are ready for Q&A whenever you want.

今天的演講到此結束。感謝您的加入。我們現在將開放問答熱線。接線員，我們隨時準備為您解答疑問。

Thank you. (Operator Instructions). Rupert Merer, National Bank.

謝謝。（操作員指令）。魯珀特·梅勒，國家銀行。

Hi. Thank you. Good morning. Thanks for taking the question. So I respect that you can't talk about your own strategic review process, but I'm wondering if maybe you can talk about the M&A market. You are active in the M&A market.

你好。謝謝。早安.感謝您回答這個問題。因此，我尊重您不能談論自己的策略審查流程，但我想知道您是否可以談談併購市場。您在併購市場很活躍。

Are you seeing any improvements there? Does the market look healthy? Do you see a number of competitive buyers in the market today?

您看到那裡有任何改善嗎？市場看上去健康嗎？您是否看到當今市場上有許多有競爭力的買家？

And is that dynamic changing? Has it changed at all over the last few months? It seems like there is a little bit of an increasing optimism in the US market in particular.

這種動態正在改變嗎？在過去的幾個月裡它有發生什麼變化嗎？看起來，美國市場的樂觀情緒正逐漸增強。

Okay. Thanks for the question, Rupert. So I'm going to talk about the M&A market. We see ourselves, meaning projects, let's say, of an average size. As you can see, ourselves, we are finding opportunities where we believe that we can achieve reasonable or good returns. An example would be the acquisition in the UK.

好的。謝謝你的提問，魯伯特。所以我要談談併購市場。我們看到自己，意味著項目，比方說，是平均規模的。正如您所看到的，我們正在尋找我們相信能夠獲得合理或良好回報的機會。一個例子就是在英國的收購。

We do believe in general that, at least in the part of the market we see, which again is the mid-sized part of the market, in many cases operating assets, what we do see is that probably 1 year, 1.5 year ago, it was difficult to match sellers' and buyers' expectations. And in the last few quarters, what we are seeing is that probably, the success rate is higher.

我們確實普遍認為，至少在我們看到的市場部分，也就是中等規模的市場部分，在很多情況下是營運資產，我們確實看到的是，大概 1 年前、1.5 年前，很難滿足賣家和買家的期望。在過去幾個季度中，我們看到成功率可能更高。

And in our case, we closed this acquisition in the UK. We closed the divestiture of the Monterrey project. So, we do believe, if you were referring to that, that the M&A market we see probably is more active. And we are seeing a higher success rate than 1 year or a 1.5 year ago.

就我們而言，我們在英國完成了這項收購。我們結束了蒙特雷計畫的剝離。因此，如果您指的是這一點的話，我們確實相信，我們看到的併購市場可能會更加活躍。而且我們看到的成功率比一年前或一年半前更高。

Now in the US market, the optimism is partly related to potential for falling rates. But also, we're seeing a lot of optimism around the data center market and speculation that could drive interest for attractive off-takes in some of the markets you're involved with.

目前在美國市場，這種樂觀情緒部分與利率下降的可能性有關。但同時，我們看到資料中心市場充滿樂觀情緒，而猜測可能會引發人們對您所涉及某些市場中有吸引力的承購產品的興趣。

Are you in touch with this market in any way? Are you seeing potential for off-takes for data centers? And if so, can you comment on, say, how much of the market you think could be -- or the growth potential could be driven by that market and what the return potential looks like?

您是否以某種方式與這個市場有聯繫？您是否看到了資料中心的承購潛力？如果是的話，您能否評論一下，比如說，您認為這個市場能佔據多大份額——或者這個市場能帶來多大的成長潛力，以及回報潛力是多少？

Yes. In general -- I'm talking about the US market -- we do believe that at this point in time, you can close off-take agreements at reasonable prices. We do see opportunity all across, not only in data centers, where probably, over the last few months, lots of people have been writing about that opportunity. But I would take a step backwards. And our point of view is that there's an opportunity in general in the market.

是的。總的來說——我指的是美國市場——我們確實相信，在目前這個時間點，你可以以合理的價格達成承購協議。我們確實看到了各方面的機遇，不僅僅是在資料中心，在過去的幾個月裡，可能很多人都在談論這個機會。但我會退後一步。我們的觀點是，整體而言，市場存在著機會。

We do see utility signing PPAs, and we have signed PPAs with them. We see community choice aggregators or similar off-takers being very important in the market. We see strategic or industrial or corporate clients being very active in the market, which helps. We do see, obviously, the data center opportunity as well.

我們確實看到公用事業公司簽署了 PPA，我們也與他們簽署了 PPA。我們認為社區選擇聚合商或類似的承購商在市場上非常重要。我們看到策略、工業或企業客戶在市場上非常活躍，這很有幫助。顯然，我們也看到了資料中心的機會。

Myself, I would not be able to answer your question of how large it will be. I think that, like with many things, there's a little bit of hype at this point in time out there. I think that it's going to become a meaningful part of the market, no question. Whether we are going to reach some other projections some people have been talking about, time will tell.

我自己無法回答你的這個問題：它有多大。我認為，就像許多事情一樣，目前存在一些炒作。我認為它將成為市場中一個有意義的一部分，毫無疑問。我們是否會達到一些人一直在談論的其他預測，時間將證明一切。

We are active in all segments of the market, including that one. And as I mentioned before, with today's technology, being able to mix solar or different renewable energy generation technologies plus storage and, if needed, other solutions, I think that we and other companies in the industry, we are able to provide solutions that are key in order to be able to obtain clean power for a much longer period of time during the day than a few years ago. That's important for data centers and for many other clients, as I mentioned before.

我們活躍於市場的所有領域，包括那個領域。正如我之前提到的，憑藉當今的技術，能夠混合使用太陽能或不同的可再生能源發電技術以及儲存技術，如果需要的話，還有其他解決方案，我認為我們和業內其他公司能夠提供解決方案以便能夠比幾年前在白天更長的時間內獲得清潔能源。正如我之前提到的，這對資料中心和許多其他客戶來說都很重要。

Very good. I'll leave it there. Thank you very much.

非常好。我就把它留在那裡。非常感謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you. Nelson Ng, RBC Capital Markets.

謝謝。加拿大皇家銀行資本市場部的 Nelson Ng。

Great. Thanks, everyone. My first question just relates to the Monterrey project. Do you see that as a one-off sale or are you actively looking at other asset sales?

偉大的。謝謝大家。我的第一個問題與蒙特雷專案有關。您認為這是一次性出售嗎？

So I mean, as part of our strategy, asset rotation will be part of the things we will be doing, and we will be looking at different opportunities. Obviously, the numbers need to work, meaning we need to have a situation where we believe that a third party would be willing to pay more than what we believe is the value for us of the asset.

所以我的意思是，作為我們策略的一部分，資產輪換將成為我們所做的事情的一部分，我們將尋找不同的機會。顯然，這些數字需要發揮作用，這意味著我們需要有一種情況，即我們相信第三方願意支付超過我們認為的資產價值的價格。

But to your question, the answer would be yes, obviously. We are open to looking at other opportunities if the numbers work.

但對於你的問題，答案顯然是肯定的。如果數字可行，我們願意尋找其他機會。

Okay, great. And then just looking at California, in terms of the new project, the new development, Imperial. Can you just give us a bit more color on the acquisition of that development? Was it a competitive process? Are there additional payments that you might need to make in the future based on milestone payments?

好的，太好了。然後只看加州的新項目、新開發項目 Imperial。您能否向我們詳細介紹一下該開發案的收購情況？這是一個競爭的過程嗎？根據里程碑付款，未來您是否可能需要進行額外付款？

Yes. So this is a project under development, very advanced development. As I mentioned before, we expect the project to be ready to build within this year. So it's a very advanced development that we purchased from Algonquin. And like in most projects you acquire in an advanced development stage, there are milestones where we would be making payments following -- when those milestones are met.

是的。這是一個正在開發的項目，開發非常先進。正如我之前提到的，我們預計該項目將在今年內投入建設。這是我們向 Algonquin 購買的一項非常先進的開發項目。就像您在高級開發階段獲得的大多數專案一樣，我們會在達到某些里程碑後進行付款。

The good thing about the project is that, as I mentioned before, it is in our backyard, if you want. So we feel very comfortable thanks to the fact that we continue building critical mass in the Southwest. And it has a very good PPA that we signed recently a bit after the acquisition, and it's one of those PPAs we like with a very good off-taker. So we are fairly comfortable that this project will result in a good addition to our portfolio.

這個項目的好處是，正如我之前提到的，如果你願意的話，它就在我們後院。因此，由於我們繼續在西南地區建立臨界規模，我們感到非常舒適。我們在收購後不久簽署了一份非常好的電力購買協議 (PPA)，這是我們喜歡的電力購買協議之一，並且擁有非常好的承購商。因此，我們非常有信心，該項目將為我們的投資組合帶來良好的補充。

Okay, great. Just one more question on California. So right now, you have the Coso 1 and Coso 2 battery storage. You have the 150-megawatt overnight storage project, that's also in California. Then now, you have the Imperial project. So can you just provide a bit of timeline or color on the timeline and maybe any color on the total cost of these three projects?

好的，太好了。還有一個關於加州的問題。所以現在，您有 Coso 1 和 Coso 2 電池儲存。您有一個150兆瓦的夜間儲存項目，它也位於加利福尼亞州。那現在，你有了帝國計畫。那麼您能否提供一點時間表或時間表上的細節，以及這三個項目的總成本的任何細節？

Yeah. So in terms of timing, the two Coso battery projects are under construction, and construction should be over by the end of this year, Q1 ’25.

是的。因此從時間方面來看，兩個 Coso 電池項目正在建設中，應該會在今年年底，即 2025 年第一季完成建設。

And Overnight and Imperial, in both cases, as you know, PPAs have been signed. They are very advanced and should be starting construction between the end of this year, early next year, depending on a number of things. But it would take -- construction would happen mostly in 2025 and ‘26. That's more or less the timing.

如你所知，Overnight 和 Imperial 兩家公司都已簽署了 PPA。他們已經非常先進，應該會在今年年底或明年年初開始動工，具體時間還取決於許多因素。但它需要——大部分建設將在 2025 年和 2026 年完成。時間大致就是這樣。

In terms of total investment, you have the numbers in our disclosure. I don't have them in front of me at this point in time. So if you want to follow up with Investor Relations, but it's in the disclosure.

就總投資而言，您可以在我們的揭露中找到相關數字。目前我面前還沒有這些。因此，如果您想跟進投資者關係，但這是在披露中。

Okay, great. I'll look that up. And then just finally, can you just provide a bit more color on the funding plan? Obviously, capital recycling could be part of the solution. But any additional details on your funding plan? I guess one question is, will those three projects have project-level non-recourse debt?

好的，太好了。我會查一下。最後，能否詳細介紹一下融資計畫？顯然，資本循環可能是解決方案的一部分。但是您的融資計劃還有其他細節嗎？我想問的是，這三個項目是否會有項目級無追索權債務？

Yes. Nelson, this is Francisco. Good morning. One of the good things, as you know, is, since we signed a very good PPA for this project and are contracted, that allows us to put leverage on them on a non-recourse basis at the project level.

是的。尼爾森，這是弗朗西斯科。早安.如您所知，其中一件好事是，由於我們為該專案簽署了一份非常好的電力購買協議(PPA) 並簽訂了合同，這使我們能夠在專案層面以無追索權的方式對他們施加影響。

Capital recycling is another source of capital. We also have part of the CAFD that would generate in the future. And we also have some leverage capacity at our holding company.

資金循環利用是資金的另一個來源。我們還有一部分CAFD將在未來產生。我們的控股公司也擁有一定的槓桿能力。

So if you combine those four, those would be the sources of funding. Santiago mentioned that's at 2025 and ‘26 in some particular cases, ‘24 for the Coso batteries. But we plan to use those levers, Nelson.

所以如果把這四個結合起來，它們就是資金來源。聖地亞哥提到，在某些特殊情況下，預計使用壽命為 2025 年或 26 年，而對於 Coso 電池，預計使用壽命為 24 年。但我們計劃使用這些槓桿，尼爾森。

Great. Thanks. I'll leave it there.

偉大的。謝謝。我就把它留在那裡。

Thank you. Angie Storozynski, Seaport.

謝謝。安吉·斯托羅津斯基，海港。

Good morning. So I understand you don't want to talk about the strategic review, so maybe more generally about M&A transactions we have seen over the last couple of months. It does seem like there is quite a discrepancy in multiples that are being paid for development companies versus existing assets.

早安.所以我明白您不想談論戰略評估，所以也許更籠統地談論我們在過去幾個月看到的併購交易。看起來，開發公司支付的倍數與現有資產支付的倍數確實有很大差異。

I mean, we've heard of low teens in EV-to-EBITDA multiples for developers versus [given] sub 8 times for standalone renewable assets. And I'm just wondering why do you think that is and how is that all – it could apply to your valuation, which seems to more resemble that of a single asset. Thank you.

我的意思是，我們聽說開發商的企業價值與 EBITDA 的比率低於 10 倍，而獨立再生資產的企業價值與 EBITDA 的比率則低於 8 倍。我只是想知道您為什麼會這樣認為，以及這一切是如何發生的——它可以適用於您的估值，它似乎更類似於單一資產的估值。謝謝。

Thank you, Angie. I'm not familiar enough with the situations you described and the reason for the different valuations you were mentioning. Obviously, in our sector, interest rates play a significant role. But I wouldn't be able to elaborate a lot regarding the examples you have mentioned. Obviously, we are aware of the transactions in the sector, but we typically do not spend too much time trying to understand valuations.

謝謝你，安吉。我對您所描述的情況以及您提到的不同估值的原因不太熟悉。顯然，在我們的行業中，利率發揮著重要作用。但我無法針對您所提到的例子進行詳細的闡述。顯然，我們了解該行業的交易，但通常不會花太多時間去了解估值。

Okay. But how about the fact that you managed to buy these wind assets in the UK at such low multiples? I mean, you sort of alluded to that, that those are middle of the market types of deals that might be coming at attractive multiples. But overall, just wondering if that is indicative of basically the value of your existing assets given that you can buy assets at such low multiples.

好的。但是，你們是如何以如此低的價格收購英國風電資產的呢？我的意思是，您似乎暗示了這一點，這些都是中等市場類型的交易，可能會帶來相當吸引力的倍數。但總的來說，只是想知道，鑑於您可以以如此低的倍數購買資產，這是否基本上表明了您現有資產的價值。

Yeah. So specifically in that case or in general in what I told before, the middle part of the market, I would say that competition is lower than in the market you were describing before. So in certain situations, we are able to find opportunities at multiples that we believe are attractive for us.

是的。所以具體到那種情況，或者總體上就我之前所說的，也就是市場的中間部分，我會說競爭比你之前描述的市場要低。因此，在某些情況下，我們能夠找到我們認為對我們有吸引力的倍數機會。

I wouldn't try to draw too many conclusions. I mean, the market of purchasing a $65 million asset is very different from some of the examples you are describing. And obviously, in order to find a situation like that, in our case, we had to look at many situations.

我不會試圖得出太多結論。我的意思是，購買價值 6500 萬美元的資產的市場與您描述的一些例子非常不同。顯然，為了找到這樣的情況，在我們的案例中，我們必須考慮很多情況。

Actually, in the UK, because of the fact that we have NOLs locally, we have been looking for opportunities to invest for a long time. And until now, we have not found a situation with numbers attractive enough. So I wouldn't say that it's easy to find a $60 million asset in the UK at the multiple we shared with you. In our case, we had to turn around many, many stones.

實際上，在英國，由於我們當地有NOL，因此我們一直在尋找投資機會。而到目前為止，我們還沒有發現具有足夠吸引力的數位情境。因此，我不會說在英國很容易找到以我們與您分享的倍數計算的 6,000 萬美元的資產。在我們的例子中，我們必須扭轉許多許多的石頭。

Okay. And then changing topics a little bit. So the wind assets you guys bought in the US, those were expiring PPAs. I mean, an opportunistic timing here, given that we have this run-up in forward power prices in the US, Texas in particular. I just wonder if that's been impacting your decisions about repowering, maybe keeping some of these assets merchant for longer to capture this improving power market fundamental.

好的。然後稍微改變話題。所以你們在美國購買的風電資產都是即將到期的電力購買協議 (PPA)。我的意思是，這是一個機會時機，因為美國，特別是德克薩斯州的遠期電價正在上漲。我只是想知道這是否影響了您關於重新供電的決定，也許讓其中一些資產保留更長時間以抓住不斷改善的電力市場基本面。

Yeah. So yes, as you know, specifically the asset in Texas, at this point in time, it's merchant. And part of the reason for keeping it merchant is because we thought and we think that we can benefit from, let's say, more positive dynamics in the market.

是的。是的，如你所知，特別是德克薩斯州的資產，目前它是商人的資產。我們將其保留為商業實體的部分原因是因為我們認為我們可以從市場中受益，比如說，更積極的動態。

This doesn't mean that we will want to have assets merchant forever. But short-term or tactically or opportunistically, we are happy with that exposure in those assets which are a very small percentage of our portfolio.

但這並不意味著我們會永遠希望擁有資產商人。但從短期、戰術或機會角度來看，我們很高興看到這些資產在我們的投資組合中所佔比例非常小。

At some point in time, we will be – we expect repowering, reinvesting in those assets. But again, depending on how the market evolves, one repowering or another might make more sense. It's not only repowering with wind; you also have opportunities to repower with storage.

在某個時間點，我們將會－我們期望重新投入資金，重新投資這些資產。但是，根據市場的發展情況，一種或另一種再造動力可能更有意義。這不僅僅是利用風能來重新發電；您還有機會透過儲存重新供電。

So we are trying to maintain that merchant exposure until we have a strong point of view regarding which repowering is the best. And again, we have a partner in these projects. So it takes two to tango, and we need to make sure that we tango whenever we are both ready and we have a strong point of view regarding rising dynamics.

因此，我們會努力維持商家曝光度，直到我們對哪種再供電方式是最好的有明確的看法。再次重申，我們在這些項目中有一個合作夥伴。所以，單打獨鬥不行，我們需要確保只要雙方都做好準備，並且對上升勢頭有強烈的看法，我們就可以開始跳探戈。

Okay. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

Thank you. Mark Jarvi, CIBC Capital Markets.

謝謝。加拿大帝國商業銀行資本市場部 (CIBC Capital Markets) 的馬克‧賈維 (Mark Jarvi)。

Yeah. Good morning, everyone. So maybe, Santiago, just coming back to that funding question. What would be the explicit plan for 2024? Just draw on the credit facilities or is there plan to actually issue corporate level debt?

是的。大家早安。所以也許，聖地牙哥只是回到資金問題。2024 年的具體計畫是什麼？僅利用信貸額度還是有計劃實際發行公司級債務？

We have the market, Francisco. As you know, I mean, our leverage is particularly low. We have different funding options, and the one you mentioned is obviously one of the ones we're considering.

我們有市場，弗朗西斯科。如你所知，我們的槓桿率特別低。我們有不同的融資選擇，您提到的顯然是我們正在考慮的選擇之一。

That would be the credit facility or corporate debt?

這是信貸安排還是企業債務？

Well, I mean, it would be the combination of both, where we're running parallel track of putting project finance at the same time.

嗯，我的意思是，這將是兩者的結合，我們同時並行進行專案融資。

Understood. And then last quarter, you talked about equity commitments of $175 million to over $200 million. Of the announced projects today, were any of those contemplated in that projection? And then I guess, where are you staying right now in terms of expected equity deployment now?

明白了。上個季度，您談到了 1.75 億美元至 2 億美元以上的股權承諾。在今天宣布的項目中，有任何項目被考慮在內嗎？那麼我想問一下，就預期股權部署而言，您現在處於什麼位置？

So one, the project in California we announced today, investment is mostly going to happen in ‘25, ‘26. But it was taken into account in the numbers we shared with you. So in general, I would say that there's no big change there regarding the numbers we shared with you a quarter ago, except for the UK projects. But in general, when we share projections with you, we try to take into account things that we believe are going to happen with a certain probability. So I would not expect a very significant change versus that.

因此，我們今天宣布的加州項目的投資大部分將在 2025 年和 2026 年進行。但我們與您分享的數字已將其考慮在內。因此總的來說，我想說，除了英國項目外，與我們一個季度前分享的數字相比，沒有太大變化。但一般來說，當我們與您分享預測時，我們會嘗試考慮我們認為會以一定機率發生的事情。因此，我預計不會發生非常顯著的變化。

Okay. And then Santiago, you made the comment about having to turn over a lot of stones or kick a lot of stones to find good acquisitions out there. How would you frame the return opportunity on acquisitions versus development projects? And then maybe on the development side, for your project returns, are they holding or do you feel like there's some pressure going to come if interest rates start to turn lower?

好的。然後聖地亞哥，您評論說，必須翻開很多石頭或踢很多石頭才能找到好的收購對象。您如何看待收購與開發專案的回報機會？那麼也許在開發方面，對於您的專案回報，它們是否能保持下去，或者您是否覺得如果利率開始下降，就會面臨一些壓力？

Yeah. In general, returns when you develop are higher. Or in other words, you need to look at many, many opportunities on the M&A side to end up having returns comparable to development. That's why I made that comment before.

是的。一般來說，開發後的回報會更高。或者換句話說，您需要在併購方面尋找很多機會，才能最終獲得與開發相當的回報。這就是我之前發表上述評論的原因。

At this point in time, the returns we see on the development side continue being similar to what we have been seeing in the last few quarters. I would say that probably a year, a year and a half ago, returns improved in the market. And more or less, they have been holding there.

此時，我們在開發方面看到的回報與過去幾季的回報仍然相似。我想說，大概一年或一年半前，市場報酬率有所改善。他們或多或少一直待在那裡。

I think that it will depend a lot on interest rates, whether we maintain these returns, we increase further, or we see a bit of pressure. But for the last few quarters what we have seen, I would say, is a rational market with reasonable returns.

我認為這在很大程度上取決於利率，我們是否能保持這些回報，是否能進一步增加，或者是否會看到一些壓力。但我想說，過去幾季我們看到的是理性的市場和合理的回報。

And then your comment about having a hard time defining good, accretive acquisitions, is that just at the size that you are looking at or do you think that goes across the range of small, medium, and large deals right now?

然後，您提到很難定義好的、增值的收購，這僅僅是針對您所關注的規模，還是您認為這涵蓋了目前小型、中型和大型交易的範圍？

We don't spend too much time on large transactions. So I wouldn't be very useful in that part of the market. In the lower to mid-sized part of the market, it takes time. Again, for the last few quarters, we have been able to see interesting opportunities, specifically, the multiples we saw in the UK. That's not that easy to find.

我們不會在大額交易上花費太多時間。所以我在那個市場領域沒什麼用。在中低階市場，這需要時間。再次，在過去幾個季度中，我們已經能夠看到有趣的機會，特別是我們在英國看到的倍數。那不太容易找到。

Okay. Thanks for the time today.

好的。感謝您今天抽出時間。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you. (Operator Instructions) Dimple Gosai, Bank of America.

謝謝。（操作員指示） Dimple Gosai，美國銀行。

Hi. Thanks for taking the question, guys. A very quick one from me. Can you talk a little bit about the Spain market, what you are seeing in terms of market prices, outlook, regulatory front? And then also, on full-year guidance, are you comfortable with that? Do you reiterate guidance? And is everything intact today?

你好。謝謝大家回答這個問題。我很快就能做到。您能否談談西班牙市場，以及您對市場價格、前景和監管方面的看法？另外，對於全年指引，您滿意嗎？您是否重申指導意見？今天一切都還好嗎？

Yeah. So starting with your second part of the question, our practice is to talk about guidance when we want, need to change it. And so we are not saying anything because our practice is only to talk about it when we need to make some change.

是的。因此，從問題的第二部分開始，我們的做法是，當我們想要、需要改變它時，談論指導。所以我們什麼也不說，因為我們的做法是只有在需要做出一些改變時才談論它。

The first part of the question, the market in Spain, we talked briefly in our disclosure, for example, about a PV project in Spain where the project is advanced. And we expect to invest in that project in the coming quarters. So we see, at this point in time, a market where pricing dynamics are, I would say, not as good as they were a couple of years ago, but we continue finding opportunities here and there, being very careful, and like always, working with PPAs.

問題的第一部分，西班牙的市場，我們在披露中簡單談了一下，比如說西班牙的一個光伏項目，這個項目進展比較順利。我們預計將在未來幾季對該項目進行投資。因此，我認為，目前市場定價動態不如幾年前那麼好，但我們仍會繼續四處尋找機會，保持謹慎，一如既往。

So Spain is a market maybe closer to California, where you have a lot of PV installed. That means that, as we say in the sector, you have a very steep, [dark] curve around the midday. Power prices are very low there. And therefore, from our point of view, we are going to be using PPAs and we are going to be using, in many cases, storage to try to leverage those opportunities, as we do in California or as we do in northern Chile, which again is a similar market with high PV penetration.

因此，西班牙的市場可能更接近加利福尼亞，那裡安裝了大量光伏發電。這意味著，正如我們在該領域所說的那樣，中午時分會出現非常陡峭的[黑色]曲線。那裡的電價非常低。因此，從我們的角度來看，我們將使用電力購買協議 (PPA)，在許多情況下，我們將使用儲存來嘗試利用這些機會，就像我們在加州或智利北部所做的那樣。類似的市場，光電滲透率很高。

So I don't see Spain as a huge growth opportunity, but we do expect to capture some opportunities going forward, especially when the storage market develops a bit more. From that point of view, Spain is a bit behind California. But many of the dynamics that we are seeing in California now, we believe we will see them in Southern Europe in the future.

因此，我並不認為西班牙有巨大的成長機會，但我們確實希望在未來抓住一些機會，尤其是當儲存市場進一步發展時。從這個角度來看，西班牙稍微落後於加州。但我們相信，目前在加州看到的許多動態，將來也會在南歐看到。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you. We have no further questions. I'll now hand back to Santiago for any closing comments.

謝謝。我們沒有其他問題了。現在我將把麥克風交還給聖地牙哥，請他做最後評論。

Great. Thank you very much, everybody, for attending.

偉大的。非常感謝各位的參加。

Thank you. Good morning.

謝謝。早安.