Atlantica Sustainable Infrastructure PLC (AY) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Hello all, and welcome to Atlantica's Third Quarter 2023 Financial Results Conference Call. Just a reminder that this call is being webcast live on the Internet, and a replay of this call will be available on Atlantica's corporate website. Atlantica will be making forward-looking statements during this call, which are based on current expectations and assumptions and are subject to risks and uncertainties. Actual results could differ materially from our forward-looking statements if any of our key assumptions are incorrect or because of other factors, including the Risk Factors section of the accompanying presentation and in our latest reports and filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, all of which can be found on our website. Atlantica does not undertake any duty to update any forward-looking statements.

大家好，歡迎參加 Atlantica 2023 年第三季財務業績電話會議。請注意，此電話會議正在網路上進行網路直播，並將在 Atlantica 的公司網站上提供此電話會議的重播。 Atlantica 將在本次電話會議期間發表前瞻性聲明，這些聲明基於當前的預期和假設，並受到風險和不確定性的影響。如果我們的任何關鍵假設不正確或由於其他因素，包括隨附簡報的風險因素部分以及我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的最新報告和文件中的所有因素，實際結果可能與我們的前瞻性聲明存在重大差異可以在我們的網站上找到。 Atlantica 不承擔更新任何前瞻性聲明的義務。

Joining us for today's conference call are Atlantica's CEO, Santiago Seage; and CFO, Francisco Martinez-Davis. As usual, at the end of the conference call, we will open the lines for the Q&A session. I will now pass you over to Mr. Seage. Please go ahead.

加入我們今天的電話會議的是 Atlantica 的執行長 Santiago Seage；財務長弗朗西斯科·馬丁內斯-戴維斯。像往常一樣，在電話會議結束時，我們將開通問答環節。現在我將把您交給 Seage 先生。請繼續。

Thank you very much. Good morning, and thank you, everybody, for joining us for our third quarter 2023 call. Before we get into this quarter's results and performance, please allow me to share with you a few remarks about the renewable energy market and how Atlantica is positioned to take advantage of the opportunities we see in front of us.

非常感謝。早安，感謝大家參加我們的 2023 年第三季電話會議。在我們討論本季的業績和業績之前，請容許我與您分享一些有關再生能源市場以及Atlantica 如何定位以利用我們面前的機會的評論。

In first place, we continue seeing a high-growth market for renewable energy in the U.S. and in most of the markets where we operate. Demand for renewable energy continues to be strong, both from utilities and from corporates, regulators, governments, financing entities continue being supportive.

首先，我們繼續看到美國和我們經營所在的大多數市場的再生能源市場持續高速成長。對再生能源的需求持續強勁，來自公用事業公司和企業、監管機構、政府、融資實體的持續支持。

The transition in our energy sector is a reality. We can obviously debate if it will happen as quickly as what some people expected or expect. But it is obvious that at this point in time, solar PV, wind storage are low-cost, clean proven solutions in most geographies. As a result, we believe that the market will continue growing regardless of the cost of financing, regardless of the cost of oil or gas, regardless of whether a certain project or a certain technology happens or doesn't happen in a certain location. And again, this is simply because PV wind storage allow to offer cheap low-cost, clean electricity.

我們能源產業的轉型已成為現實。顯然，我們可以爭論它是否會像某些人預期或期望的那樣迅速發生。但顯然，目前在大多數地區，太陽能光電、風能儲存都是低成本、經過驗證的清潔解決方案。因此，我們相信，無論融資成本如何，無論石油或天然氣成本如何，無論某個項目或某種技術是否在某個地點發生或不發生，市場都將繼續成長。再說一遍，這只是因為光伏風能儲存可以提供廉價、清潔的電力。

The transition is therefore happening and we need to invest as a sector, trillions of dollars over decades using many different technologies to make it happen. The opportunity is there for here and will continue being there in the future.

因此，這種轉變正在發生，我們需要作為一個部門在幾十年內投資數萬億美元，使用許多不同的技術來實現這一轉變。機會就在這裡，並且將來會繼續存在。

Within that context of a large growing market, the next question is whether players, companies will be able to create value in that market or in other words, whether pricing for new projects, pricing for new PPAs, pricing for new assets are reflecting a higher cost of capital. Our short answer based on our experience working in different states and countries is a clear yes. Based on what we are seeing at this point in time, we are being able we believe to incorporate the higher cost of capital in our new investments. In fact, we believe that the current environment represents an opportunity for players with critical mass like us.

在一個不斷成長的大型市場的背景下，下一個問題是參與者、公司是否能夠在該市場中創造價值，或者換句話說，新專案的定價、新購電協議的定價、新資產的定價是否反映了更高的價格。資本成本。根據我們在不同州和國家工作的經驗，我們的簡短答案是肯定的。根據我們目前所看到的情況，我們相信我們能夠將更高的資本成本納入我們的新投資中。事實上，我們相信當前的環境對於像我們這樣具有臨界質量的玩家來說是一個機會。

2 years ago, a smaller recently created developers were able to drop prices, sign PPAs and hope to purchase and finance a project. Today, those players are having difficulties to do that or simply cannot do that. These days, you need a balance sheet, you need experience, you need a proven track record, and we have that together with a number of other players, obviously, but we have that. And we believe that we know how to compete with these other larger players, much better than how to compete with the smaller developers 2 years ago.

兩年前，一家規模較小的新成立的開發商能夠降低價格，簽署購電協議，並希望購買和資助一個專案。如今，這些球員很難做到這一點，或者根本無法做到這一點。如今，你需要資產負債表，你需要經驗，你需要經過驗證的業績記錄，顯然，我們和許多其他參與者都擁有這些，但我們擁有這些。我們相信，我們知道如何與其他較大的參與者競爭，比兩年前如何與較小的開發商競爭要好得多。

In fact, as an example, a few quarters ago, we talked about a storage project co-located within our geothermal plant in California. At the time, we spoke about different ways of obtaining revenues from that new project. Today, we are announcing that we have signed 2 polling agreements 2 PPAs with investment-grade utility in California for that project and for another similar project. And with those 2 PPAs, we will be obtaining a higher return than what we expected at the time and fully contracted.

事實上，舉個例子，幾個季度前，我們討論了位於加州地熱發電廠內的一個儲存項目。當時，我們討論了從該新項目中獲取收入的不同方式。今天，我們宣布，我們已與加州投資級公用事業公司就該項目和另一個類似項目簽署了 2 份投票協議和 2 份購電協議。透過這兩個購電協議，我們將獲得比我們當時預期和完全簽約更高的回報。

I believe that this is only a couple of examples, but we are trying to show you that at this point in time, we see a constructive market in front of us. As a result of what I'm saying, at this point in time, we see opportunities to invest at attractive returns in our project development pipeline and in projects and assets that might be coming to the market. We will obviously be cautious and allocate capital to opportunities that make sense, and we will consider all investment options while maintaining balance sheet flexibility.

我相信這只是幾個例子，但我們試圖向您展示，此時此刻，我們看到了一個建設性的市場。由於我所說的，目前，我們看到了在我們的專案開發管道以及可能進入市場的專案和資產中獲得有吸引力回報的投資機會。顯然，我們將保持謹慎態度，將資本分配給有意義的機會，我們將考慮所有投資選擇，同時保持資產負債表的靈活性。

As you know, our financing model is and has always been very simple and prudent. We do not use and we have never used complex financing structures. We do not have any partnerships with preferred distribution rights or complex convertible structures. A vast majority of that is plain vanilla project debt with fixed interest or hedged. And each project, as you know, progressively repay its debt and makes distributions to the holding party after having repaid that project debt. As a result, our cash available for distribution is clearly after project debt repayment. Francisco will later talk about this in more detail.

如你所知，我們的融資模式一直以來都是非常簡單和審慎的。我們不使用也從未使用過複雜的融資結構。我們沒有任何具有優先發行權或複雜可轉換結構的合作夥伴關係。其中絕大多數是固定利息或對沖的普通項目債務。如你所知，每個項目都會逐步償還債務，並在償還項目債務後向控股方進行分配。因此，我們可供分配的現金顯然是在償還專案債務之後。弗朗西斯科稍後將更詳細地討論這一點。

Finally, allow me to remind everybody about the fact that Atlantica has what we believe is a well contracted, diversified portfolio of assets in operation. Almost all our revenues are contracted or regulated, and our assets have on average 13 years of contract life in front of them. And something important, we believe that we have a lower exposure to the natural resources to the solar and wind resource than many of our peers since more or less 50% of our revenues correspond to availability-based contracts.

最後，請容許我提醒大家，我們認為Atlantic 擁有一個契約良好、營運多元化的資產組合。我們幾乎所有的收入都受到合約或監管，我們的資產平均還有 13 年的合約壽命。重要的是，我們相信，與許多同行相比，我們對太陽能和風能資源的自然資源敞口較低，因為我們或多或少 50% 的收入對應於基於可用性的合約。

With that, I will turn over the call to Francisco who will take us through our financial results.

接下來，我會將電話轉給弗朗西斯科，他將向我們介紹我們的財務表現。

Thank you, Santiago, and good morning to everyone. Please turn to Slide #4, where I will present our key financials for the first 9 months of 2023. Revenue and EBITDA remained stable at $858.6 million and $627.3 million, respectively. Regarding cash available for distribution, we generated $184.2 million in the first 9 months of 2023, a 2.9% year-over-year growth or 0.6% on a comparable basis.

謝謝你，聖地牙哥，祝大家早安。請轉到幻燈片#4，我將在其中介紹我們 2023 年前 9 個月的主要財務數據。收入和 EBITDA 分別保持穩定在 8.586 億美元和 6.273 億美元。關於可分配現金，2023 年前 9 個月我們產生了 1.842 億美元，年成長 2.9%，可比成長 0.6%。

On the following slide, #5, you can see our performance by geography and business sector. In North America, revenue increased by 4.6% to $338.7 million in the first 9 months of 2023 compared to the same period of last year, mostly due to higher production in our solar assets in the U.S. with higher availability in Solana. The increase in adjusted EBITDA was lower, 1%, mainly due to lower production from our wind assets, where we had a lower wind reports during the first 9 months of the year.

在下面的幻燈片#5 中，您可以看到我們按地理位置和業務部門劃分的表現。在北美，2023 年前 9 個月的營收與去年同期相比成長了 4.6%，達到 3.387 億美元，這主要是由於我們在美國的太陽能資產產量增加以及 Solana 的可用性更高。調整後 EBITDA 增幅較低，為 1%，主要是由於我們的風電資產產量較低，今年前 9 個月我們的風電報告較低。

In South America, revenue increased by 14.5% compared with the first 9 months of 2022 upto $140.3 million, and EBITDA increased 17.9% to $112.1 million. The increase was mainly due to assets which recently entered operation, inflation indexation mechanisms in our contracts and a small gain corresponding to the sale of our equity interest in our development company to a partner in the first quarter.

在南美洲，營收較2022年前9個月成長14.5%，達1.403億美元，EBITDA成長17.9%，達到1.121億美元。增加的主要原因是最近投入營運的資產、合約中的通膨指數化機制以及第一季將開發公司股權出售給合作夥伴所產生的小額收益。

In the EMEA region, revenue and adjusted EBITDA decreased by 7.9% and 8.3%, respectively. This was mostly due to lower revenues at our solar assets in Spain despite higher production during the period, mainly due to lower electricity prices compared with the same period last year. As you're aware of these assets are regulated and we're entitled to receive a predefined rate of return, the fluctuation in market prices do not affect the value of the asset.

在歐洲、中東和非洲地區，收入和調整後 EBITDA 分別下降 7.9% 和 8.3%。這主要是由於我們在西班牙的太陽能資產的收入較低，儘管期內產量較高，這主要是由於電價與去年同期相比較低。如您所知，這些資產受到監管，我們有權獲得預定的回報率，因此市場價格的波動不會影響資產的價值。

Production also decreased in (inaudible) due to a scheduled major turbine overhaul, which took longer than expected and had some sequent unscheduled outage. Looking below at the results by business sector, we can see similar effects.

由於計劃中的大型渦輪機大修，產量也有所下降（聽不清楚），該大修花費的時間比預期要長，並且隨後發生了一些計劃外停機。從下面按業務部門劃分的結果來看，我們可以看到類似的效果。

Let's now please turn to Slide #6, where I'll review our operational performance. Electricity produced by renewable assets to reach 4,383 gigawatt hours in the first 9 months of 2023, an increase of 6% versus the same period of 2022, mainly due to the increase in our solar assets in the U.S. and Spain as well as the contribution from recently consolidated assets and those that have operation recently.

現在請轉到幻燈片#6，我將在其中回顧我們的營運績效。 2023 年前 9 個月，再生能源資產發電量將達到 4,383 吉瓦時，較 2022 年同期增長 6%，主要得益於我們在美國和西班牙的太陽能資產的增加以及來自最近整合的資產和最近營運的資產。

Looking at our availability-based contracts. In our efficient natural gas and heat segment, availability decreased modestly due to scheduled maintenance stuff during the period, which did not impact revenue. Our water assets and transmission lines continue to achieve very high availability levels for the first 9 months of 2023.

看看我們基於可用性的合約。在我們的高效天然氣和熱力部門，由於在此期間進行定期維護工作，可用性略有下降，但這並不影響收入。我們的水務資產和輸電線路在 2023 年前 9 個月繼續實現非常高的可用性水準。

Moving to Slide #7, we can see that during the last months, and given the current conditions in the capital markets, we have proactively managed our investments, and now we have investment commitments in 2023 in the range of $100 million to $120 million and $150 million to $180 million in 2024. As you can see, we have moved certain investments from '23 to '24.

轉向幻燈片#7，我們可以看到，在過去的幾個月裡，考慮到資本市場的當前狀況，我們積極管理我們的投資，現在我們在2023 年的投資承諾在1 億至1.2 億美元之間， 2024 年將達到 1.5 億美元至 1.8 億美元。如您所見，我們已將某些投資從 23 年轉移至 24 年。

Additionally, together with our partners, we are in the process of divesting our 30% stake in Monterrey, the natural gas asset we own in the north of Mexico. If the transaction closed, the net proceeds of Atlantica would be in the range of $46 million to $53 million.

此外，我們正在與合作夥伴一起剝離蒙特雷 30% 的股份，蒙特雷是我們在墨西哥北部擁有的天然氣資產。如果交易完成，Atlantica 的淨收益將在 4,600 萬美元至 5,300 萬美元之間。

We continue to have ample liquidity to finance the growth with $48 million in cash at the corporate level and $393.1 million available under our revolving credit facility, which totaled $441.1 million of corporate liquidity. I will turn -- I will now turn the call back to Santiago.

我們繼續擁有充足的流動性來為成長提供資金，公司層級的現金為 4,800 萬美元，循環信貸額度為 3.931 億美元，企業流動性總額為 4.411 億美元。我現在將把電話轉回聖地牙哥。

Thank you, Francisco. As I mentioned before, if we move to Page 8, we do see a constructive PPA market in the key or the core PPA wind storage technologies. We see clients who are ready to accept somewhat higher pricing, and we are looking now for credible counterparties when they sign a contract. In that context, we share with you these 2 PPAs. We have signed for our projects, Coso Batteries 1 and Coso Batteries 2, and both projects have been signed with an investment-grade utility in California. These are tolling agreements with fixed payments and 15 years duration.

謝謝你，弗朗西斯科。正如我之前提到的，如果我們轉到第 8 頁，我們確實會在關鍵或核心 PPA 風儲存技術中看到一個建設性的 PPA 市場。我們看到客戶已經準備好接受更高的價格，我們現在正在尋找可信賴的交易對手來簽訂合約。在此背景下，我們與您分享這 2 個 PPA。我們已簽署了 Coso Batteries 1 和 Coso Batteries 2 項目，這兩個項目都已與加州的一家投資級公用事業公司簽署。這些是固定付款且期限為 15 年的收費協議。

We already covered Coso batteries 1 in the past. Coso batteries 2 is a similar storage projects. We -- a project with 80 megawatt hours capacity offering 4 hours of storage. It is also located within our Coso geothermal plant, and we expect to reach COD by 2025.

我們過去已經介紹過 Coso 電池 1。 Coso Battery 2是一個類似的儲能專案。我們的專案容量為 80 兆瓦時，可提供 4 小時的儲存空間。它也位於我們的 Coso 地熱發電廠內，我們預計到 2025 年將達到 COD。

Around the storage, we continue seeing a significant opportunity in a number of our markets, including California. And that's why if we move to Page 9, where we can take a look at our development pipeline, we see there that a significant percentage of our pipeline is actually in storage projects. Worth mentioning as well, when we look at our pipeline, we are focusing on North America and almost 1/4 of the pipeline corresponds to repowering and expansions of existing assets. As many of you know, investments that generally have higher returns.

在儲存方面，我們繼續在包括加州在內的許多市場中看到重大機會。這就是為什麼如果我們轉到第 9 頁，我們可以在其中查看我們的開發管道，我們會發現我們的管道的很大一部分實際上是在儲存專案中。另外值得一提的是，當我們審視我們的管道時，我們專注於北美，幾乎 1/4 的管道對應於現有資產的重新供電和擴建。眾所周知，投資通常具有較高的回報。

Do you want to continue for Francisco?

您想繼續前往弗朗西斯科嗎？

Okay. Let's turn to Slide #10, please. As we mentioned in the introduction, given the recent volatility in this sector, we believe it is worth spending a couple of minutes reviewing our financing model. This has been an integral part of our strategy, and we have always followed the same principles.

好的。請讓我們轉向投影片 #10。正如我們在簡介中提到的，考慮到該行業最近的波動，我們認為值得花幾分鐘審查我們的融資模式。這是我們策略的一個組成部分，我們始終遵循同樣的原則。

Our financing strategy is underpinned by one key principle. A majority of our financing is nonrecourse self-amortizing project debt in ring-fenced subsidiary. Our assets repaid their project debt progressively. As you can see on the graph on the left-hand side of this slide, the project debt of the existing portfolio will be reduced by $1.9 billion over the next 5 years. This graph also shows the repayment calendar. This is not an objective. This is how our contracts are structured.

我們的融資策略以一項關鍵原則為基礎。我們的融資大多是封閉子公司的無追索權自我攤提專案債務。我們的資產逐步償還了專案債務。正如您在這張投影片左側的圖表中所看到的，現有投資組合的專案債務將在未來 5 年內減少 19 億美元。該圖也顯示了還款日曆。這不是一個目標。這就是我們的合約的結構。

The project dept of the current portfolio, which is $4.4 billion as of today, is expected to decrease to $2.5 billion at the end of 2028. If you look at the table below, you can see that our project debt service in the last 2 years. This gives you an idea of the cash available for distribution before project dept service, close to $860 million in 2022. The model is simple and transparent. We do not have any corporate financings or partnerships where partners have preferred distribution rights.

目前投資組合的專案部門截至目前為止為 44 億美元，預計到 2028 年底將減少至 25 億美元。如果您查看下表，您可以看到我們的專案債務償還在過去 2 年中。這讓您可以了解專案部門服務之前可分配的現金，到 2022 年將接近 8.6 億美元。該模型簡單且透明。我們沒有任何合作夥伴擁有優先分銷權的公司融資或合作夥伴關係。

When it comes to corporate debt, we are committed to maintaining a balanced and sustainable capital structure. Our net corporate debt represents today approximately 20% of our net consolidated debt. Our net corporate debt to CAFD available for distribution ratio is currently at 3.4x. Our current leverage is lower than that of our peers, and this is reflected in our credit ratings of BB+ by both Standard & Poor's and Fitch.

在企業債務方面，我們致力於維持平衡和永續的資本結構。目前，我們的公司淨債務約占我們合併淨債務的 20%。我們的公司淨負債與可供分配的 CAFD 的比率目前為 3.4 倍。我們目前的槓桿率低於同行，這反映在標準普爾和惠譽對我們的 BB+ 信用評級。

Looking at the interest rate risk, we have ensured that 93% of the consolidated debt has either fixed interest rate or is hedged. For the long-term project debt agreement, the interest rate is fixed or we have hedges in place for the entire life of the financing agreements. Additionally, our first sensible corporate debt maturity is midyear 2025 and it amounts to $113 million. So we don't have to worry about step-ups in our financing costs due to refinancings in the short term. We believe that this prudent financing model is key to reduce refinancing and interest rate risk and to provide stability to the business.

從利率風險來看，我們確保93%的合併債務要不是固定利率，就是對沖的。對於長期專案債務協議，利率是固定的，或者我們在融資協議的整個期限內都有對沖。此外，我們的第一個合理企業債務到期日為 2025 年年中，金額為 1.13 億美元。所以短期內我們不用擔心再融資導致融資成本上升。我們認為，這種審慎的融資模式是降低再融資和利率風險並為業務提供穩定性的關鍵。

With this, we conclude today's presentation. Thank you very much for joining us. We will now open the line for questions. Operator, we're ready for Q&A.

今天的演講到此結束。非常感謝您加入我們。我們現在將開通提問熱線。接線員，我們已準備好進行問答。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question today comes from Julien Dumoulin-Smith of Bank of America.

（操作員說明）我們今天的第一個問題來自美國銀行的 Julien Dumoulin-Smith。

Pleasure to chat here. I just wanted to follow up on your comments at the outset here. You're clearly sort of emphasizing your relative advantages versus your peers, if you will, on development activities. Just want to understand, is that a relative ramp that you're talking to here that we should expect? I mean, obviously, Coso well done sort of obvious opportunity here in terms of being an incumbent. But should we expect more in that same vein here? Or are you thinking that kind of the same level of consistent overall or perhaps capital oriented towards acquisitions, development is going to be sustained? Or is this more of a pivot towards internal expansions of brownfield sites that you think are more tactful if you will.

很高興在這裡聊天。我只是想從一開始就跟進您的評論。如果您願意的話，您顯然是在強調您與同行相比在開發活動方面的相對優勢。只是想了解一下，您在這裡談論的相對斜坡是我們應該預期的嗎？我的意思是，顯然，科索在擔任現任總統方面做得很好，這是一個明顯的機會。但我們是否應該期待更多同樣的事情呢？或者您認為這種相同水準的整體一致或以資本為導向的收購、發展將會持續？或者這更多的是轉向棕地內部擴張，如果你願意的話，你認為這種擴張更為巧妙。

Thank you for the question, Julien. So our plan, as you know, over the last years, what we have been sharing with you is our intention in terms of investment is to deploy capital wherever we see the best opportunities, and that should include a combination of expansion/repowering of existing assets together with development of new projects.

謝謝你的提問，朱利安。因此，如您所知，我們的計劃在過去幾年中一直與您分享的是，我們在投資方面的意圖是在我們看到最佳機會的任何地方部署資本，其中應包括現有業務的擴張/重新供電相結合。資產以及新項目的開發。

In some cases, capturing synergies with existing projects like the 2 we strive today. So as you know, these projects are colocated within the geothermal plan. There are synergies in terms of land, in terms of connection, in terms of O&M, but these are 2 totally separate projects with 2 totally separate PPAs. And additionally, we plan to invest in other, let's say, greenfield development projects within our pipeline and whenever we find the right opportunities, acquisitions of projects in operation. So all of them and ensuring that we allocate capital where we see the best opportunities.

在某些情況下，需要與現有專案（例如我們今天努力的 2 個專案）實現協同效應。如您所知，這些項目位於地熱計劃內。在土地、連接、營運和維護方面存在協同效應，但這是兩個完全獨立的項目，有兩個完全獨立的購電協議。此外，我們計劃投資於我們管道內的其他綠地開發項目，只要我們找到合適的機會，就會收購正在運營的項目。因此，所有這些都確保我們將資本分配到我們看到的最佳機會。

(technical difficulty) Excellent. But this isn't a channel allocation as far as you're concerned. And more importantly, as you think about the strategic review, I mean, is this a sign on your side that you're wanting to be even more involved as an independent developer here versus perhaps the ongoing and separate strategic process here? I just want to make sure I'm understanding the signaling right as far as your relative emphasis on the call today.

（技術難度）非常好。但就您而言，這不是頻道分配。更重要的是，當您考慮戰略審查時，我的意思是，這是否表明您希望作為獨立開發人員更多地參與這裡，而不是這裡正在進行的和單獨的戰略流程？我只是想確保我正確理解了您今天對通話的相對重視程度。

So regarding the review, we are not signaling anything, Julien. And regarding the growth strategy, this is what we have been following for a number of years, which is a combination of investments in acquisitions and in projects we develop greenfield or expansion of existing assets. So from that point of view, no change in our state we are perhaps reminding people that we do see opportunities in front of us, but we are not signaling any change there, Julien.

因此，關於審查，我們沒有發出任何信號，朱利安。關於成長策略，這是我們多年來一直遵循的策略，即收購投資和開發綠地專案或現有資產擴張的投資相結合。因此，從這個角度來看，我們的狀態沒有任何變化，我們可能會提醒人們，我們確實看到了我們面前的機會，但我們並沒有發出任何變化的信號，朱利安。

All right. Excellent. And just to kind of reiterate that last point finally, as you think about the strategic review and the process underway here, any thoughts about buyback here at all? I mean, just given where the shares have moved of late. I just wanted to just ask you that directly here if ever that was on the table. I mean, obviously, the review itself might inhibit that, but I'm just curious if you have any thoughts about that, especially given your comments on organic.

好的。出色的。最後重申最後一點，當您考慮這裡正在進行的策略審查和流程時，您對回購有什麼想法嗎？我的意思是，僅考慮到最近股價的走勢。我只是想直接在這裡問你這個問題是否已經擺在桌面上。我的意思是，顯然，評論本身可能會抑制這一點，但我很好奇您是否對此有任何想法，特別是考慮到您對有機的評論。

Yes. The review does inhibit that. So while going one with you, that's not an option in terms of investment.

是的。審查確實抑制了這一點。因此，與您一起去時，這不是投資的選擇。

Our next question comes from Mark Jarvi of CIBC Capital Markets.

我們的下一個問題來自 CIBC 資本市場的 Mark Jarvi。

Just in terms of the planned investments, as you look out into 2024, how much of that would be, I guess, commercially secured full line of sight versus stuff that you still need to, I guess, find commercial agreements, PPAs, what have you to advance next year?

就計劃投資而言，當你展望 2024 年時，我猜其中有多少是商業上安全的全視線，而不是你仍然需要的東西，我猜，找到商業協議、購電協議等你明年能晉級嗎？

Mark, most of that has the commercial agreements required for the investment to happen when we allocate capital or we commit an investment, it's because we have been able to put the different pieces together. So all or most of that is there.

馬克，其中大部分都有當我們分配資本或承諾投資時進行投資所需的商業協議，這是因為我們已經能夠將不同的部分組合在一起。所以全部或大部分都在那裡。

Okay. And how would you say returns are trending? I don't know, maybe it's a levered IRR. If you look back at what you were doing in sort of organic greenfield investments a year ago, what you're doing this year? And then as you look into those 2024 projects, any indications of where you've been able to move your return objectives and hurdles to?

好的。您如何看待回報趨勢？我不知道，也許這是一個槓桿IRR。如果你回顧一年前你在有機綠地投資所做的事情，那麼今年你在做什麼？然後，當您研究這些 2024 年專案時，是否有任何跡象表明您已經能夠將回報目標和障礙轉移到哪裡？

Yes. Our philosophy here, the way we calculate our hurdle rates probably would be, let's say, following a very similar methodology to what you would be doing if you were in our shoes and therefore, when interest rates go up, our further rates move up automatically.

是的。我們的理念，我們計算最低門檻利率的方式可能是，比方說，遵循與您處於我們的處境時會採取的方法非常相似的方法，因此，當利率上升時，我們的進一步利率會自動上升。

And as I mentioned at the beginning of the call, what we are seeing is that the market is responding to that. So at this point in time, we are working with returns that clearly meet our hurdle rates and hurdle rates by today without trying to be too specific and obviously different by geography situation, technology, et cetera, et cetera, but we are clearly in the double-digit return territory.

正如我在電話會議開始時提到的，我們看到市場正在對此做出反應。因此，在這個時間點上，我們正​​在研究的回報明顯符合我們的最低門檻利率和今天的最低門檻利率，而不會試圖過於具體，並且因地理位置、技術等而明顯不同，但我們顯然處於兩位數的回報領土。

And when you say you're moving them up, I assume you're kind of in reference to the risk-free rate, but are you able to, I guess, exceed your hurdle rates and opportunities just given the breadth of the demand for clean energy and just maybe some time leveraging a site or a specific nuance of a project?

當你說你要把它們提高時，我認為你是指無風險利率，但我想，考慮到需求的廣度，你是否能夠超越你的最低門檻利率和機會？清潔能源，也許只是利用某個地點或項目的特定細微差別？

We are.

我們是。

Okay. And then maybe you can just kind of comment on the Spanish market. When you're looking there from brownfield or greenfield opportunities, how do returns there compared to what you're seeing in North America? And just maybe overall, the context of capital flows in Spain in terms of like if you ever considered a minority interest sell-down, how is the activity level in terms of M&A on either minority sales or outright asset or portfolio sales?

好的。然後也許您可以對西班牙市場發表一些評論。當您從棕地或綠地機會中尋找那裡時，與您在北美看到的回報相比，那裡的回報如何？也許總體而言，西班牙的資本流動背景是，如果您曾經考慮過少數股權出售，那麼少數股權出售或直接資產或投資組合出售的併購活動水平如何？

So what we are seeing and probably this comment applies in general, but what we are seeing is that the changes that we have seen in the North American market are coming to Europe a bit later. And therefore, today, we are feeling more comfortable finding the right returns in North America probably than in Europe. We think that it's coming, probably competitors in Europe, it's taking them a bit longer to realize that cost of capital is higher. So as of today, we think that, that has happened in North America and is happening as we speak in Europe, but it's a bit behind.

因此，我們所看到的，也許這個評論適用於一般情況，但我們所看到的是，我們在北美市場看到的變化稍後會出現在歐洲。因此，今天，我們感覺在北美可能比在歐洲更容易找到合適的回報。我們認為它即將到來，可能是歐洲的競爭對手，他們需要更長的時間才能意識到資本成本更高。因此，截至今天，我們認為這種情況已經在北美發生，並且正在歐洲發生，但有點落後。

Does that not create an opportunity then in terms of a value arbitrage where your assets might be more valued in the hands of some in Europe versus what you could deploy capital in North America? Or is it too late to try to act on that now?

那麼，這是否不會創造一個價值套利的機會，即您的資產在歐洲某些人手中可能比您在北美部署資本的資產更有價值？或者現在嘗試採取行動是否為時已晚？

Well, we always look for that kind of opportunities. And if we found an opportunity and obviously, we would look at situations like when you described, it's something we would act on. In fact, today, we have discussed in Europe, but we have discussed a potential stake we would be selling because we found a situation where we believe that someone is ready to pay more than what we believe would be reasonable for us.

嗯，我們總是在尋找這樣的機會。如果我們找到機會，顯然，我們會考慮您所描述的情況，我們會採取行動。事實上，今天，我們已經在歐洲進行了討論，但我們討論了我們將出售的潛在股份，因為我們發現一種情況，我們認為有人準備支付超出我們認為對我們合理的價格的價格。

(Operator Instructions). Our next question comes from William Grippin of UBS.

（操作員說明）。我們的下一個問題來自瑞銀集團的威廉‧格里平。

Just want to start here with kind of a basic question. But on the are investment amounts that you provide, does that reflect only the corporate capital piece? Or is that the total investment, including any project level debt that you expect?

只是想從一個基本問題開始。但是，您提供的投資金額是否僅反映了公司資本部分？或者這是總投資，包括您期望的任何項目級債務？

That is our investment. So it would be, if you want our equity in the investment without any project debt or any tax equity or any third-party financing.

這就是我們的投資。如果您希望我們在投資中擁有股權，而沒有任何專案債務、任何稅務股權或任何第三方融資，情況就是如此。

Got it. Right. And so on that front, I mean, good to see some cattle recycling here with the Monterey project. But could you elaborate on maybe other sources of capital to fund your planned investments in 2024 beyond the revolver?

知道了。正確的。我的意思是，在這方面，很高興看到蒙特利項目在這裡回收一些牛。但除了左輪手槍之外，您能否詳細說明一下為 2024 年計劃投資提供資金的其他資金來源？

Yes, sure. So I mean when you look at our balance sheet, and Francisco can elaborate later, if needed, at this point in time, we -- from a ratio -- leverage ratio point of view, we have some room including, as you said, the RCF, other sources of corporate debt if required. From an asset recycling point of view, we are talking today about one potential transaction, and we will be active on that front. And if we find Mark's question before was suggesting, if we find the opportunities that we believe create value, and that would be another Potel source.

是的，當然。所以我的意思是，當你查看我們的資產負債表時，弗朗西斯科可以稍後詳細說明，如果需要的話，在這個時間點，我們- 從比率- 槓桿率的角度來看，我們有一些空間，包括，正如你所說， RCF、其他公司債務來源（如果需要）。從資產回收的角度來看，我們今天討論的是一項潛在的交易，我們將在這方面積極開展工作。如果我們發現馬克之前的問題是建議，如果我們找到我們認為創造價值的機會，那將是另一個波特爾來源。

And additionally, at this point in time, as we mentioned before as well, when we start a project, we do it when we have put together all the elements in contracts, and that allows to be able to obtain nonrecourse financing in many situations.

此外，在這個時候，正如我們之前提到的，當我們啟動一個專案時，我們會在將合約中的所有要素放在一起時進行，這使得我們能夠在許多情況下獲得無追索權融資。

Got it. And just quick last one here. sorry.

知道了。這裡只是最後一個。對不起。

I was going to mention that really another source is the fact that we generate more cash than what we pay out to shareholders. That's another obviously source of capital.

我要提到的是，另一個來源是我們產生的現金比我們支付給股東的現金還要多。這顯然是另一個資本來源。

Right. And just the last one here. Are you -- could you just provide, I guess, an update on what you're seeing here as far as anticipated CAFD yields on your corporate capital investments for your development projects versus what you're seeing in the market for third-party acquisitions?

正確的。而這只是最後一個。我想，您能否提供您在這裡看到的最新情況，即您的開發項目的企業資本投資的預期 CAFD 收益率與您在第三方收購市場上看到的情況的比較？

So that is a very good question. And typically, what we have seen and we continue seeing today is that by developing and building our own projects, we can achieve a higher return both in terms of IRR and shorter-term yield as well. Nevertheless, in the current market, we believe that there are going to be opportunities on the acquisition side. And there are going to be players that will need to divest either assets in operation or even assets under development. And therefore, we are open to checking whether my answer continues being true all the time or whether there are opportunities where allocating capital to acquisitions can achieve similar returns at a lower risk.

這是一個非常好的問題。通常，我們已經看到並且今天繼續看到的是，透過開發和建造我們自己的項目，我們可以在內部收益率和短期收益率方面獲得更高的回報。儘管如此，在目前的市場上，我們相信收購方面將有機會。將會有一些參與者需要剝離營運中的資產，甚至正在開發中的資產。因此，我們願意檢查我的答案是否始終正確，或者是否存在將資本分配給收購的機會，可以以較低的風險實現類似的回報。

We have no further questions in the queue. So I'll turn the call back over to Mr. Santiago Seage for any closing remarks.

我們隊列中沒有其他問題了。因此，我將把電話轉回給聖地亞哥·西奇先生，讓其結束語。

Thank you very much for attending our call. We have finished operator.

非常感謝您參加我們的電話會議。我們已經完成了操作員。

This concludes today's call. Thank you for joining. You may now disconnect your lines.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的加入。現在您可以斷開線路。