Avient Corp (AVNT) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Avient Corporation's webcast to discuss the company's third-quarter 2025 results. My name is Dede, and I will be your operator for today. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded for replay purposes. I would now like to turn the call over to Joe Di Salvo, Vice President, Treasurer and Investor Relations. Please proceed.

各位女士、先生，早安，歡迎收看 Avient 公司網絡直播，我們將在此討論公司 2025 年第三季業績。我叫迪迪，今天由我來為您接聽電話。（操作員說明）提醒各位，本次會議將進行錄音，以便重播。現在我將把電話交給副總裁、財務主管兼投資者關係負責人喬迪薩爾沃。請繼續。

Thank you, and good morning, everyone joining us on the call today. Before we begin, we'd like to remind you that statements made during this webcast may be considered forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Forward-looking statements will have current expectations or forecasts of future events and are not guarantees of future performance. They're based on management's expectation and involve a number of business risks and uncertainties, any of which could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed in or implied by the forward-looking statements. We encourage you to review our most recent reports, including our Form 10-Q or any applicable amendments for a complete discussion of these factors or other risks that may affect our future results.

謝謝大家，早安，今天所有參加電話會議的朋友們。在開始之前，我們想提醒您，本次網路直播中發表的聲明可能被視為 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》意義上的前瞻性聲明。前瞻性陳述包含對未來事件的當前預期或預測，並不構成對未來績效的保證。這些預測是基於管理階層的預期，並涉及許多商業風險和不確定性，其中任何一項都可能導致實際結果與前瞻性聲明中明示或暗示的結果有重大差異。我們建議您查閱我們最新的報告，包括我們的 10-Q 表格或任何適用的修訂版，以全面了解這些因素或其他可能影響我們未來業績的風險。

During the discussion today, the company reviews both GAAP and non-GAAP financial measures. Please refer to the presentation posted on the Investor Relations section of the Avient website, where the company describes the non-GAAP measures and provides a reconciliation to their most directly comparable GAAP financial measures. A replay of this call will be available on our website. Information to access the replay is provided in today's press release, which is also available at avient.com in the Investor Relations section. Joining me today is our Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Dr. Ashish Khandpur; and Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer, Jamie Beggs. I will now hand the call over to Ashish to begin.

在今天的討論中，公司審查了GAAP和非GAAP財務指標。請參閱 Avient 網站投資者關係部分發布的演示文稿，其中公司對非 GAAP 指標進行了描述，並提供了與最直接可比較的 GAAP 財務指標的調節表。本次通話的錄音回放將在我們的網站上提供。有關觀看回放的資訊已在今天的新聞稿中提供，也可在 avient.com 的投資者關係部分查看。今天與我一同出席的有我們的董事長兼首席執行官阿什什·坎德普爾博士；以及高級副總裁兼首席財務官傑米·貝格斯。現在我將把電話交給阿什什，由他開始通話。

Thank you, Joe, and good morning, everyone. I am pleased to report third quarter adjusted EPS of $0.70, in line with our guidance despite slightly weaker-than-anticipated sales. The subdued market demand in several of our key markets, affected revenue growth compared against our strongest quarter in 2024, where we had realized 8.5% organic revenue growth in the third quarter last year. Our focus on increased productivity, cost containment and portfolio prioritization helped expand adjusted EBITDA margin 60 basis points to 16.5%. This offset the slightly lower sales compared to the prior year third quarter to still grow adjusted earnings year over year.

謝謝你，喬，大家早安。我很高興地報告，第三季調整後每股收益為 0.70 美元，與我們的預期一致，儘管銷售額略低於預期。幾個主要市場的市場需求疲軟，影響了營收成長，與我們 2024 年表現最好的季度相比，去年第三季我們實現了 8.5% 的有機收入成長。我們專注於提高生產力、控製成本和優化投資組合，從而將調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率提高了 60 個基點，達到 16.5%。儘管銷售額較上年同期略有下降，但這抵消了調整後收益同比增長的局面。

Strong operational performance resulted in adjusted EPS growth of 7.7% as reported and 4.5%, excluding the impact of foreign currency translation. On a year-to-date basis, through the third quarter, our team's ability to execute in a tough and uncertain macro environment has resulted in 4.1% adjusted EPS growth on flat year-over-year sales. This earnings growth is attributable to favorable mix from consistent innovation-driven growth in health care and defense portfolios as well as our ongoing productivity initiatives, which has year to date enable 40 basis points of adjusted EBITDA margin expansion compared to last year.

強勁的營運表現使經調整後的每股盈餘按報告值計算增長了 7.7%，不計外幣折算的影響，每股收益增長了 4.5%。今年迄今為止，截至第三季度，我們的團隊在艱難且不確定的宏觀環境下展現出的執行力，使得在銷售額與去年同期持平的情況下，調整後每股收益增長了 4.1%。這項獲利成長歸功於醫療保健和國防業務組合持續創新驅動成長帶來的有利組合，以及我們正在進行的生產力提升計劃，這些計劃使今年迄今為止的調整後 EBITDA 利潤率比去年同期提高了 40 個基點。

In our last two earnings calls, we have referenced our operational playbook for the current low demand, high uncertainty environment, which is primarily to focus on our customers and what we can influence in particular, efficiency gains. As a result, we are on track to realize approximately $40 million of productivity benefits in 2025 versus last year.

在最近兩次財報電話會議上，我們提到了針對當前低需求、高不確定性環境的營運策略，主要關注我們的客戶以及我們能夠影響的方面，特別是效率提升。因此，與去年相比，我們預計在 2025 年實現約 4,000 萬美元的生產力提升。

These benefits come from a combination of initiatives in sourcing, Lean Six Sigma, operations productivity, plant footprint optimization and tight SG&A and discretionary spending control. Our team's execution has more than offset inflation, primarily from wages as well as our investments in growth vectors that are critical for advancing our strategy. Additionally, we have been able to convert our profits into robust generation of cash, which is helping us to strengthen our balance sheet.

這些好處源自於採購、精實六西格瑪、營運效率、工廠佈局優化以及嚴格的銷售、一般及行政費用和可自由支配支出控制等一系列措施的綜合作用。我們團隊的執行力已經充分抵消了通貨膨脹的影響，這主要得益於工資的成長以及我們對推進策略至關重要的成長領域的投資。此外，我們已能夠將利潤轉化為強勁的現金流，這有助於我們加強資產負債表。

General market conditions remain largely unchanged from August when we reported our second-quarter results. This includes an uncertain global macro environment where customers in most markets and regions are waiting for clarity on trade policies, Geopolitics is fast reshaping global businesses and supply chains and the war in Europe continues.

整體市場狀況與我們8月公佈第二季業績時的情況基本沒有變化。這包括不確定的全球宏觀環境，大多數市場和地區的客戶都在等待貿易政策的明朗化；地緣政治正在迅速重塑全球商業和供應鏈；以及歐洲的戰爭仍在繼續。

While the general market conditions are consistent with what we saw in the second quarter, there have been changes in certain end markets that affect customer demand. We want to provide some context around how things are playing out in our markets especially versus our previous expectations. Consumer and Packaging, which are our two largest markets remain subdued in the third quarter. Packaging demand was lower than anticipated, especially in EMEA, our largest packaging market. Consumer sales were down high single digits in the third quarter.

雖然整體市場狀況與第二季的情況一致，但某些終端市場發生了一些變化，影響了客戶需求。我們希望就市場現狀，特別是與我們先前的預期相比，提供一些背景資訊。消費品和包裝是我們最大的兩個市場，第三季依然低迷。包裝需求低於預期，尤其是在我們最大的包裝市場—歐洲、中東和非洲地區。第三季消費者銷售額出現接近兩位數的下滑。

Notably, the weakness in consumer demand was broad-based globally. Following a weak Q2, we had expected continued negative growth in Q3, but the customer demand was weaker than what we had anticipated in Asia where our consumer sales ended being down double digits for the quarter. Having said that, we did see some encouraging trends for our global consumer business in September. And while it is too early to call if it is inflecting to growth, we do expect year-over-year consumer sales performance to be better in the fourth quarter. Industrial and Building & Constructions have been in negative demand territory, and we don't see signs of a significant recovery in the fourth quarter.

值得注意的是，全球範圍內的消費者需求疲軟。繼第二季表現疲軟之後，我們原本預期第三季將繼續出現負成長，但亞洲地區的客戶需求比我們預期的要弱，該季度我們的消費者銷售額出現了兩位數的下降。儘管如此，我們在9月份確實看到了全球消費者業務的一些令人鼓舞的趨勢。雖然現在斷言是否出現成長還為時過早，但我們預計第四季度消費者銷售業績將比去年同期有所改善。工業和建築業的需求一直處於負成長狀態，而且我們看不到第四季出現明顯復甦的跡象。

Energy, while a small percentage of the total company sales was down much more than anticipated in Q3. The US government's pause of Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act funding to utilities in early 2025 has not fully resumed impacting both grid modernization and green energy projects. Moreover, additional and changing tariffs, higher interest rates as well as shortage of long lead time critical components for grid infrastructure is causing project delays and/or changes. Our customers remain hopeful that this is a temporary situation and believe that the inventory levels at both utilities and distributors are once again in a healthy state.

能源業務雖然只占公司總銷售額的一小部分，但第三季的銷售額下降幅度遠超預期。美國政府暫停向公用事業公司提供《基礎設施投資和就業法案》資金的計劃於 2025 年初暫停，但至今尚未完全恢復，這對電網現代化和綠色能源項目都產生了影響。此外，不斷增加和變化的關稅、更高的利率以及電網基礎設施所需長期關鍵零件的短缺，都導致專案延期和/或變更。我們的客戶仍然希望這只是暫時的，並相信公用事業公司和分銷商的庫存水準已經再次恢復到健康狀態。

However, as a matter of caution, we have now modeled continued weak Q4 demand for our energy markets. We experienced some growth in transportation, driven by incremental light vehicle production and an increase in demand for our Dyneema materials used in marine applications. In the fourth quarter, we expect flat to modest growth for this end market. As expected, defense, health care and telecommunications remained resilient in Q3 with high single-digit growth in all three markets. We expect these markets to continue to do well in Q4.

但是，出於謹慎考慮，我們目前已預測第四季度能源市場需求將持續疲軟。在輕型車輛產量逐步提高以及船舶應用領域對我們 Dyneema 材料的需求增加的推動下，我們在交通運輸領域取得了一些成長。我們預計第四季度該終端市場將保持平穩或溫和成長。正如預期，國防、醫療保健和電信業在第三季度保持了韌性，這三個市場均實現了高個位數成長。我們預計這些市場在第四季將繼續表現良好。

Overall, for Q4, we expect growth in our Color, Additives and Inks business to be under pressure due to the subdued market demand for packaging and consumer applications while our Specialty Engineered Materials business is expected to grow, supported by customer demand and growth of some of our recently launched innovative products in health care and defense markets. Though we remain cautiously optimistic that end market demand will improve in the near future, there continue to be many unknowns and uncertainties surrounding our macro.

總體而言，我們預計第四季度顏色、添加劑和油墨業務的成長將受到包裝和消費品應用市場需求疲軟的影響，而特種工程材料業務預計將會成長，這得益於客戶需求以及我們最近在醫療保健和國防市場推出的一些創新產品的成長。儘管我們對終端市場需求在不久的將來會有所改善仍保持謹慎樂觀，但宏觀經濟方面仍然存在許多未知因素和不確定性。

Accordingly, we are proactively working on an action plan in the event that the slow or no growth period ensues for an extended period. This includes additional productivity actions and organizational complexity reduction so we can continue to grow our margins and earnings. I'll now hand the call to Jamie to cover our third-quarter segment and regional performance as well as provide some color on our updated guidance.

因此，我們正在積極制定行動計劃，以應對可能持續較長時間的緩慢增長或零增長時期。這包括採取更多提高生產力的措施和降低組織複雜性，以便我們能夠繼續提高利潤率和收益。現在我將把電話交給 Jamie，讓他介紹我們第三季的業務部門和區域業績，並對我們更新後的業績指引進行一些說明。

Thank you, Ashish, and good morning, everyone. I'll begin with the performance of our Color, Additives and Inks segment. Continued strength in health care was not enough to offset demand conditions in consumer, packaging and building and construction which led to a 4% decline in organic sales for the segment in the third quarter. Despite lower top line results, the segment expanded EBITDA margins 20 basis points through favorable mix and cost improvement initiatives. This included ongoing plant footprint optimization and streamlining the segment's organizational structure, which has not only reduced costs, but is also allowing us to serve our customers more efficiently.

謝謝你，阿什什，大家早安。我先從我們顏料、添加劑和油墨業務部門的表現說起。醫療保健產業的持續強勁成長不足以抵消消費品、包裝和建築業的需求疲軟，導致該產業第三季有機銷售額下降了 4%。儘管營收下滑，但該業務板塊透過有利的產品組合和成本改善措施，實現了 EBITDA 利潤率 20 個基點的成長。這包括持續優化工廠佈局和簡化該部門的組織結構，這不僅降低了成本，也使我們能夠更有效率地服務客戶。

Organic sales for the Specialty Engineered Materials segment were down 1%, excluding FX, as strong growth in defense and health care largely offset lower sales in consumer, energy and industrial end markets. Health care continues to deliver growing high single digits due to our innovative and specified materials for use in medical devices, equipment and supplies. Defense also grew high single digits, supported by strong demand in the US and Europe, underpinned by increased law enforcement and military spending. We are also benefiting from new product innovations in our Dyneema line which provides next-level performance through our recently launched next-generation materials.

不計匯率影響，特種工程材料部門的有機銷售額下降了 1%，國防和醫療保健行業的強勁增長在很大程度上抵消了消費品、能源和工業終端市場銷售額的下降。由於我們為醫療器材、設備和用品提供創新且專用的材料，醫療保健產業持續保持高個位數的成長。國防開支也實現了接近兩位數的成長，這得益於美國和歐洲的強勁需求，而這又源自於執法和軍事開支的增加。我們也受惠於 Dyneema 產品線的新產品創新，透過我們最近推出的新一代材料，實現了更高水準的性能。

Favorable mix and productivity initiatives also resulted in margin expansion in SEM, which was up 50 basis points compared to prior year. This margin expansion led to modest EBITDA growth despite slightly lower sales on a constant currency basis. Looking at regional performance. US, Canada and EMEA sales decreased 5% and 3%, respectively, versus the prior year quarter. Trade policy uncertainty, inflation and higher interest rates, particularly in the US have weighed on Consumer, Packaging, Industrial, Energy and Building and Construction markets, which account for approximately 65% of sales in these regions.

有利的產品組合和生產力提升措施也使SEM的利潤率擴大，比前一年增長了50個基點。儘管以固定匯率計算銷售額略有下降，但利潤率的提高帶來了 EBITDA 的溫和成長。考察區域表現。與去年同期相比，美國、加拿大和歐洲、中東及非洲地區的銷售額分別下降了 5% 和 3%。貿易政策的不確定性、通貨膨脹和較高的利率，尤其是在美國，對消費品、包裝、工業、能源以及建築和施工市場造成了壓力，約佔這些地區銷售額的 65%。

In Asia, sales were down 1%, primarily due to consumer. Nearly offsetting this was growth in packaging, healthcare and telecommunications. The enhanced focus on high-performance computing and semiconductor manufacturing in Asia is creating new opportunities for our materials and we continue to see robust growth in this area, supported by secular trends. And lastly, Latin America grew revenue 1%.

在亞洲，銷售額下降了 1%，主要原因是消費者需求下降。包裝、醫療保健和電信業的成長幾乎抵消了這種影響。亞洲對高效能運算和半導體製造的日益重視，為我們的材料創造了新的機遇，在長期趨勢的支持下，我們繼續看到該領域強勁的成長。最後，拉丁美洲的收入成長了 1%。

Though a modest increase, this marks the seventh consecutive quarter of growth and lastly comparison where the region grew 27% in the third quarter last year. Credit for the region's consistent performance goes out to our local team who is winning new business and gaining share. Turning to our guidance for the remainder of the year. We are narrowing our range to account for the third-quarter results, the end market dynamics that Ashish shared earlier and current customer order patterns. For the fourth quarter, we expect year-over-year sales performance to be slightly better than what we experienced in the third quarter.

雖然增幅不大，但這標誌著該地區連續第七個季度實現成長，而且與去年第三季27%的增幅相比，今年第三季的增幅相當可觀。該地區業績持續成長，應歸功於我們當地的團隊，他們不斷贏得新業務並擴大市場份額。接下來，我們將介紹今年剩餘時間的指導方針。我們正在縮小範圍，以反映第三季業績、Ashish 之前分享的終端市場動態以及當前的客戶訂單模式。我們預計第四季將年比銷售業績略好於第三季。

Strong growth in defense, health care and telecommunications expected to continue while sales in other key end markets will be flat to slightly down versus the prior year quarter. We are also acknowledging that there is added uncertainty related to the US federal government shutdown and how that may affect demand in the US. Overall, we expect organic sales will likely be flat to down low single digits in the fourth quarter, but still with the potential for low single-digit growth depending on the timing of certain defense orders as well as the restart of certain energy projects in the US. Accordingly, our updated adjusted EBITDA range for the year is now $540 million to $550 million.

預計國防、醫療保健和電信業的強勁成長勢頭將繼續保持，而其他主要終端市場的銷售額將與去年同期持平或略有下降。我們也意識到，美國聯邦政府停擺帶來了額外的不確定性，這可能會影響美國的需求。總體而言，我們預計第四季度有機銷售額可能會持平或下降個位數百分比，但仍有可能實現個位數百分比的成長，具體取決於某些國防訂單的交付時間以及美國某些能源項目的重啟情況。因此，我們更新後的年度調整後 EBITDA 範圍為 5.4 億美元至 5.5 億美元。

Lower interest expense from paying down debt and a favorable tax benefit in the third quarter are offsetting the slightly lower adjusted EBITDA range, allowing us to maintain our previous adjusted EPS guidance range of $2.77 to $2.87. For the full year, adjusted EPS growth will be driven by higher margins from favorable mix and productivity initiatives as well as lower interest expense. We expect to reduce debt in total by $150 million this year, having already repaid $100 million year to date. We have made no changes to our expected capital expenditures forecast for the year of approximately $110 million, and we anticipate free cash flow will range from $190 million to $210 million, also unchanged. I'll now turn the call back over to Ashish for some closing comments.

債務償還帶來的利息支出減少以及第三季度有利的稅收優惠抵消了調整後 EBITDA 預期範圍略微下調的影響，使我們能夠維持此前調整後每股收益 (EPS) 2.77 美元至 2.87 美元的預期。全年來看，調整後 EPS 的成長將主要得益於產品組合最佳化和生產力提升所帶來的利潤率提高以及利息支出的減少。我們預計今年將減少1.5億美元的債務，今年迄今已償還1億美元。我們對本年度約 1.1 億美元的預期資本支出預測沒有做出任何改變，預計自由現金流將在 1.9 億美元至 2.1 億美元之間，也保持不變。現在我將把電話轉回給阿什什，請他做一些總結發言。

Thank you, Jamie. Thus far, 2025 has been characterized by trade wars, shifting supply chains, labor market challenges, weak consumer sentiment and most recently, a US government shutdown, all of which have negatively impacted demand. But amidst all of that, our teams have navigated the challenging operating environment and delivered positive earnings growth. I would like to thank the Avient team for their tireless and focused efforts on serving our customers and executing with discipline.

謝謝你，傑米。到目前為止，2025 年的特點是貿易戰、供應鏈轉移、勞動力市場挑戰、消費者信心疲軟，以及最近的美國政府停擺，所有這些都對需求產生了負面影響。但即便麵臨如此挑戰，我們的團隊依然克服了充滿挑戰的經營環境，並實現了獲利成長。我要感謝 Avient 團隊為服務客戶所付出的不懈努力和專注精神，以及他們嚴謹的執行力。

With that, we would be happy to take any of your questions. Operator, please begin the Q&A session.

那麼，我們很樂意回答您的任何問題。操作員，請開始問答環節。

(Operator Instructions) Michael Sison, Wells Fargo.

（操作員說明）邁克爾·西森，富國銀行。

Nice quarter. I know it's a little bit early, but when you think about 2026, Ashish and most companies that have reported have suggested sort of similar difficult slow conditions heading into the first half. What do you think your growth algorithm for next year on just -- could be if this environment persists?

不錯的街區。我知道現在說這些有點早，但當你展望 2026 年時，Ashish 和大多數發布報告的公司都表示，上半年市場狀況將類似地艱難而緩慢。如果這種環境持續下去，你認為明年你的成長演算法會是什麼樣的？

Yes. Thanks, Mike, for the question. Obviously, the uncertainty is continuing and not much clarity has happened. So although we are hoping for the best, we are also preparing for Plan B, which is in case things don't turn around. And we'll provide more details on our guidance in the next fall.

是的。謝謝你的提問，麥克。顯然，不確定性仍在持續，情況並沒有明朗化。所以，雖然我們希望一切順利，但我們也準備了 B 計劃，以防情況沒有改善。我們將在明年秋季提供更多指導細節。

But just from where we are sitting and based on the business segment, I think if the market conditions persist like this then, the consumer business, the CAI business not consumer, the CAI business will probably continue to face headwinds, while we have good growth coming from SEM based on some new product launches and some innovation and growth vectors kick in there.

但就我們目前所處的位置和業務板塊而言，我認為如果市場狀況持續下去，那麼消費者業務（CAI 業務，而非消費者業務）可能會繼續面臨不利因素，而 SEM 業務則有望憑藉一些新產品的推出以及一些創新和增長動力實現良好增長。

So overall, it's going to be a mixed bag between the two segments. But I think we should be still able to grow in an environment where assuming that those things don't change much. Of course, as we telecasted in the presentation, if things get worse because of the enhanced shutdown or consumer sentiment deteriorates further then we have additional productivity and plans in place that we will enact as things go in this quarter and early first quarter of next year.

所以總的來說，這兩個部分的情況會是喜憂參半。但我認為，即使假設這些因素不會發生太大變化，我們仍然能夠在這樣的環境中成長。當然，正如我們在演示中提到的，如果由於進一步的停工或消費者信心進一步惡化，情況變得更糟，那麼我們已經制定了額外的生產力提升計劃，我們將在本季度和明年第一季初根據情況實施這些計劃。

Got it. And then as a follow-up, it sounds like your innovation, new product momentum is gaining some traction. You might see some growth there in the fourth quarter in Consumer, which is great. How much momentum do you have heading into 2026? Is there sort of a base level of growth you're going to see from those initiatives next year?

知道了。然後，作為後續跟進，聽起來你們的創新和新產品動能正在獲得一些進展。第四季消費者業務可能會有所成長，這很好。展望2026年，您擁有多大的發展動能？明年這些舉措預計會帶來一定的基本成長嗎？

Yes. I mean, I just want to say that growth vectors in our strategy, we highlighted the growth vectors are our primary sources of growth creation. And that's exactly what we are seeing right now. I mean, actually, if you look at our portfolio, growth vectors have grown much, much higher than the GDP and actually creating most of the growth for the company. The rest of the portfolio without the growth vectors is actually in the negative territory.

是的。我的意思是，我只想說，在我們的策略中，我們強調成長向量是我們創造成長的主要來源。而這正是我們現在所看到的。我的意思是，實際上，如果你看一下我們的投資組合，你會發現成長點的成長速度遠遠超過了GDP，並且實際上為公司創造了大部分成長。剔除成長型投資組合後，其餘部分實際上處於虧損狀態。

So they are carrying a lot of lifting right now with respect to growth, and we expect that to continue next year, especially as more new products come to innovation next year in the market. But there are smaller -- the growth vectors are smaller component of the total portfolio, less than 20%. And so the rest of the 80% of the portfolio needs to get some tailwinds from the market for us to grow consistently. But I think we are really making a lot of progress in that area. And I have to remind this audience that the growth vectors are both in our core as well as in new platforms of scale that we are building around secular trends.

因此，他們在成長方面目前承擔著很大的責任，我們預計明年這種情況還會持續，尤其是在明年市場上會有更多創新產品湧現的情況下。但也有較小的部分——成長向量在整體投資組合中所佔比例較小，不到 20%。因此，剩餘的 80% 投資組合需要得到市場的順風支持，我們才能持續成長。但我認為我們在這一領域確實取得了很大進展。我必須提醒在座各位，成長動力既存在於我們的核心業務中，也存在於我們圍繞長期趨勢正在建構的新規模化平台中。

So as you are seeing this year, our health care and defense, those are what are growth vectors that we had highlighted and those are growing very well. And then we might highlight some more growth vectors going into the new year, especially around some of the trends that you're seeing around artificial intelligence and data center inputs that are happening. And as a material player, we want to play in that market in a better way. And we have been doing that in the background, but we have not telecasted that. So we'll provide more feedback on that as well in the future.

正如你們今年所看到的，我們的醫療保健和國防是我們所重點關注的成長領域，而這些領域發展得非常好。然後，我們可能會重點介紹一些進入新年的成長方向，特別是圍繞人工智慧和資料中心投入正在發生的一些趨勢。作為一家材料供應商，我們希望以更好的方式參與這個市場。我們一直在幕後進行這項工作，但我們沒有公開播出。所以未來我們也會就此提供更多回饋。

Frank Mitsch, Fermium Research.

弗蘭克米奇，費米研究中心。

Nice result in a difficult period. Just curious, on Slide 8, the geographic sales changes, the EMEA depiction had always been a tool up field and windmills. And now you're showing a German castle. Are you signaling a new initiative to expand into Germany with that change? Is that how we should be assessing that?

在困難時期取得這樣的成績很不錯。只是好奇，在第 8 張幻燈片中，關於地理銷售變化，EMEA 的描述一直都是一片工具田和風車。現在你們展示的是一座德國城堡。這項變化是否預示著一項進軍德國市場的新措施？我們應該這樣評估嗎？

We just thought that we would be bored of the windmills and -- but no, Frank, it's just a choice of a picture. So nothing related to that, don't read too much into that.

我們原本以為我們會對風車感到厭倦，但不，弗蘭克，這只是一幅畫的選擇而已。所以跟那件事無關，別想太多。

Okay. The discussion of the government shutdown, are you seeing any changes with respect to defense order patterns, you did indicate something with the Inflation Reduction Act or what have you. But what are you seeing on the defense side of things potentially being impacted by the government shutdown?

好的。關於政府停擺的討論，您是否觀察到國防訂單模式有任何變化？您之前提到過《通膨抑制法案》之類的東西。但您認為政府停擺可能會對國防方面產生哪些影響？

Not a lot right now, Frank. I mean, our orders for defense remain robust. And actually, we expect demand to continue both in United States as well as in Europe because of the things that have been happening in the world. So right now, we don't expect much issue from the US government shutdown.

弗蘭克，現在沒事。我的意思是，我們的國防訂單依然充足。事實上，由於世界各地正在發生的事情，我們預計美國和歐洲的需求將繼續增長。所以目前來看，我們預計美國政府停擺不會造成太大問題。

However, if the shutdown continues for a very long time, maybe into Q1 or something then at some point in time, our products have to go through inspections and clearances by certain third-party and government agencies. And at that point, it would start affecting the outflow from us. We don't expect change in orders or the demand part, but these products cannot be sometimes delivered until they are cleared by these agencies. So if the agencies are closed, that might create some issues. But for now, in Q4, we don't expect any of that to happen.

但是，如果停工持續很長時間，可能到第一季或更久，那麼在某個時候，我們的產品必須經過某些第三方和政府機構的檢查和批准。到那時，它就會開始影響我們的流出。我們預計訂單或需求部分不會發生變化，但這些產品有時需要經過相關機構的批准才能交付。所以如果這些機構關閉，可能會造成一些問題。但就目前而言，在第四季度，我們預計這些情況都不會發生。

Okay. Great. I don't think that, that will happen either. I don't think it's going to spend that long. And then lastly, the range that you offered on EPS, you gave us a point range for 3Q and then we have a $0.10 range on 4Q. Can you speak to what gets you to the low end and what gets you to the high end of that EPS range?

好的。偉大的。我認為那件事也不會發生。我覺得不會持續那麼久。最後，關於您提供的 EPS 範圍，您給了我們第三季的點數範圍，然後我們得到了第四季度 0.10 美元的範圍。您能否談談是什麼因素導致您的每股盈餘 (EPS) 達到低端，又是什麼因素導致您的 EPS 達到高端？

Yes. So Frank, I'll take that one. So from a high range perspective, part of this goes into the lumpiness that we sometimes see in defense. And to the high end of that, if we're able to close on some of those orders and get them into Q4, that could definitely be a catalyst to get on the higher end. Ashish also mentioned these energy projects, which we have seen some delays.

是的。法蘭克，那我就選這個了。所以從宏觀的角度來看，這部分原因導致了我們有時在防守中看到的混亂。而就高端市場而言，如果我們能夠完成其中一些訂單並將它們在第四季度交付，那絕對可以成為實現更高目標的催化劑。阿什什也提到了這些能源項目，我們看到其中一些項目出現了延誤。

We've been in close contact with several of our key partners and a customer perspective. And they're optimistic that we may be able to see some of those projects come into the Q4. We're not counting on it at this juncture just because of the slowdown in the US, and there's a little bit of volatility there. But there are two items that I think could push us on the upper end of that range.

我們與幾位重要合作夥伴保持密切聯繫，並從客戶的角度出發進行了探討。他們樂觀地認為，我們或許能夠在第四季看到其中一些項目落地。我們目前並不指望它，只是因為美國經濟放緩，而且那裡的市場波動性較大。但我認為有兩項因素可能會使我們的價格達到該範圍的上限。

From a downside perspective, if we see continued weakness in consumer and packaging which are our two largest markets. There is some uncertainty there. We do have some favorable comparisons in Q4 versus Q3. So we don't anticipate there to be any significant deterioration. If anything, we think things will get better on a year-over-year comparison. But obviously, we're living in a very uncertain macro environment. So we want to be a little bit cautious and that's why the range for Q4 is represented as such in what we provided out in the earnings release.

從不利方面來看，如果我們看到消費者和包裝這兩個我們最大的市場持續疲軟。這方面存在一些不確定性。第四季與第三季相比，確實有一些有利的對比數據。因此，我們預計不會出現任何重大惡化。如果有什麼變化的話，我們認為與去年同期相比情況會有所改善。但很顯然，我們生活在一個非常不確定的宏觀環境中。因此，我們希望謹慎一些，這就是為什麼我們在財報中給出的第四季業績範圍是這樣表示的。

Aleksey Yefremov, KeyBanc Capital Markets.

Aleksey Yefremov，KeyBanc 資本市場。

I wanted to ask you about the level of inventories at your customers. Do you have any insight into whether they're still reducing inventories or they're happy with their level of inventories? Or perhaps if that level is too high or too low?

我想了解一下您客戶的庫存水準。您能否透露一下他們是否仍在減少庫存，還是對目前的庫存水準感到滿意？或者，如果這個等級太高或太低呢？

Yes. So maybe I'll break it down for the two different kinds of business segments. For the Color business, our customers have -- they have started ordering smaller lots and more frequently because we have been -- we can serve them on a short cycle time period. So there is no need for them in this whole dynamic emerge during the COVID times. And so I think that pattern continues.

是的。所以，我或許會把它細分成兩種不同的業務領域。對於色彩業務而言，我們的客戶已經開始減少訂購數量，並且訂購頻率更高，因為我們能夠以較短的周期為他們提供服務。因此，在新冠疫情期間出現的這種動態變化中，它們沒有必要存在。所以我認為這種模式還會持續下去。

Our customers count on us for delivering on a short notice and don't carry much inventory. And then we are in the same situation. So we don't have much visibility with this Color customers for typically for two to three weeks -- beyond two to three weeks. And from what we can say there is not any inventory sitting in the channel or with the customers. With respect to the SEM business, that's mostly a spec-in business although we do have a bit of a business that goes through distribution.

我們的客戶依賴我們快速交貨，因此我們庫存不多。這樣我們就陷入了同樣的境地。因此，我們通常無法在兩到三週內（甚至超過兩到三週）了解該顏色客戶的情況。據我們所知，渠道中或客戶手中沒有任何庫存。至於搜尋引擎行銷 (SEM) 業務，那主要是一種投機性業務，儘管我們也有一些透過分銷管道開展的業務。

And really, there is not an issue of inventory there. The only inventory that we were worried about is because of this energy demand that we signal that the energy projects were put on pause and for a while, the customers who are carrying because these are big projects and our customers have started building inventory. And when the projects were paused then the inventory destocking took some time.

實際上，那裡並不存在庫存問題。我們唯一擔心的庫存問題是由於這種能源需求，我們發出信號，能源項目暫停，並且在一段時間內，持有庫存的客戶因為這些都是大型項目而開始建立庫存。項目暫停後，庫存清理也需要一些時間。

Based on our current knowledge and talks with our customers, they are getting back to normal levels of inventory both at their own level, distributor level as well as the utility level. But -- and we have started seeing some orders trickle in from energy side, but we are not counting on them to come in Q4. Our expectation is most of that action will take place in Q1, the orders to come back to us. And so overall, I would say inventory is pretty healthy now in SEM side as well.

根據我們目前掌握的資訊以及與客戶的溝通，無論是在他們自身層面、經銷商層面還是公用事業層面，庫存都在恢復到正常水準。但是——我們已經開始看到一些來自能源領域的訂單陸續到來，但我們並不指望它們會在第四季度到來。我們預計大部分行動將在第一季發生，訂單將陸續交還給我們。因此總的來說，我認為SEM方面的庫存目前也相當健康。

And I've seen some headlines about just consumer companies noting a little bit of an uptick of consumer demand in China. I know you have some business that's China for China. What are you seeing on the ground there?

我看到一些新聞標題說，一些消費品公司注意到中國消費者的需求略有回升。我知道你有一些在中國開展的業務。你在那邊地面上看到了什麼？

Yes. I think what we are seeing is that we are seeing more demand coming from local China OEMs versus for export. If you think about our consumer businesses in China, the consumer discretionary is the bigger part of it and most of it gets exported out, which is in textiles and apparel materials and also small appliances are the other part of it. But I think most of it is apparel, about 40% or so is apparel. And that was down double digits in Q3 for us there.

是的。我認為我們看到的是，來自中國本土OEM廠商的需求比出口需求更大。如果你考慮我們在中國的消費品業務，非必需消費品佔比最大，而且大部分都出口到國外，其中包括紡織品和服裝材料，小家電也是其中一部分。但我認為其中大部分是服裝，大約40%左右是服裝。第三季度，我們的業績出現了兩位數的下滑。

So really, China was not exporting much outside. And a lot of that material goes to Europe, but some to United States as well. So China was not exporting a whole lot in Q3 in terms of clothing and textile-related stuff. But we do continue to win share on the flip side with the local OEMs. And so I think to answer your question in a succinct way, we are seeing demand from the local OEMs, but not from the global OEMs who are playing in China.

所以實際上，中國當時並沒有向國外出口很多東西。其中很多材料出口到歐洲，一部分出口到美國。所以，中國第三季服裝和紡織品相關產品的出口量並不大。但另一方面，我們確實在本地OEM廠商中持續贏得市場份額。所以，我認為簡潔地回答你的問題，我們看到了來自本地 OEM 廠商的需求，但沒有看到來自在中國開展業務的全球 OEM 廠商的需求。

Ghansham Panjabi, Baird.

甘沙姆·潘賈比，貝爾德。

This is actually Josh Vesely on for Ghansham. Maybe the first one just on Slide 4. You mentioned consumer showing some signs of recovery in September. Can you just help us reconcile those comments relative what you're hearing in the news and what you're seeing throughout reports through 3Q, just about sequentially weaker consumer. What's specifically driving that for you guys? And is that any particular region that you're seeing that? Or is it more broad-based?

實際上，這是喬許·維斯利代表甘沙姆上場。或許第一個就在第四張投影片。您提到9月份消費者出現了一些復甦跡象。您能否幫助我們協調您在新聞中聽到的和您在第三季報告中看到的那些評論，特別是關於消費者需求逐季疲軟的報導？你們具體是出於什麼原因這麼做的？你指的是哪個特定區域？或者它的基礎更廣泛？

Yes. So maybe I'll paint the picture this way. Let me start by saying that consumer last year so Q3 of 2024, we were up 11%. So the comps were extremely tough for us as we were walking into this quarter for consumer. And so when we go through -- and then when I come to this year, and I go month by month.

是的。所以，或許我會這樣描述這幅畫面。首先我想說的是，去年消費者在 2024 年第三季成長了 11%。因此，在進入本季消費者業務時，我們的業績比較非常艱難。所以當我們回顧過去——然後當我回顧今年，我逐月回顧。

So in July, for example, our consumer was down minus 14% year over year. In August, it was down minus 8%. And in September, it was plus 1%. So we could see the sequentially our results getting better compared to last year. And it's largely coming from two things.

例如，7 月我們的消費者年減了 14%。8 月份，該指標下降了 8%。9 月份，這一數字為 1%。因此我們可以看到，與去年相比，我們的業績逐年改善。這主要源自於兩方面原因。

One was comps because the comps were getting better versus every month. And then the second part was that we did see an uptick in our consumer staples business. Consumer for us is 2/3 discretionary and 1/3 staples. And we did start seeing uptick on the staple side, especially on the SEM part of the business. As we go into Q4, comps get really better.

其中一個原因是比賽結果越來越好，每個月比賽結果都比上個月好。第二部分是，我們的消費必需品業務確實出現了成長。對我們來說，消費者消費中 2/3 為非必需品，1/3 為必需品。我們確實開始看到主食業務有所成長，尤其是在搜尋引擎行銷（SEM）業務方面。進入第四季度，同業比較情況將大大改善。

So consumer goals went from plus 11% to plus 4% in 2024. So Q4 was 4% growth. So that's a much better comp than against 11%. But on top of that, we are seeing -- there is some -- even in the discretionary side of business, especially in SEM where we are going to -- where we had a bad year because of another specific reason and that this year, it's just getting normal demand from that perspective. So we do have a little bit of a tailwind from a certain business on the SEM side, which is causing consumers to get split positive beyond the comps getting easier.

因此，消費者目標從 2024 年的 +11% 變為 +4%。所以第四季成長了4%。所以這比對上11%的球隊好得多。但除此之外，我們也看到——即使在非必需消費品領域，尤其是在搜尋引擎行銷領域，由於其他具體原因，我們經歷了糟糕的一年，而今年，從這個角度來看，需求已經恢復正常。因此，我們在搜尋引擎行銷方面確實得到了一些來自特定企業的助力，這使得消費者對產品的好感度有所提升，而比對產品的難度也隨之降低。

So that's the commentary I can give. And as I telecasted, it's hard to say whether it's true demand or it's just a comps thing because the comps were so dramatic. But we do believe that some of the consumer part, especially the staples is coming back and some of the parts of discretionary is coming back as well for us.

以上就是我能給的評論。正如我在電視上報導的那樣，很難說這是真正的市場需求，還是僅僅是同類產品價格波動造成的，因為同類產品的價格波動太大了。但我們相信，部分消費領域，特別是生活必需品領域，正在復甦，部分非必需品領域也正在復甦。

Okay. Great. That's super helpful. And then maybe a question for Jamie on capital allocation. You talked about paying down $150 million in debt this year.

好的。偉大的。這太有幫助了。然後或許可以問傑米一個關於資本配置的問題。你曾說過今年要償還1.5億美元的債務。

It looks like your balance sheet is roughly 2.8x net debt-to-EBITDA current. Just given the year-to-date share performance, is there any preference or opinion from you guys just in terms of being a little aggressive in the near term just when it comes to share repurchases. Any thoughts there would be great.

看起來你的資產負債表目前的淨負債與 EBITDA 比率約為 2.8 倍。鑑於今年迄今的股價表現，各位對於近期採取較為激進的股票回購策略是否有任何偏好或意見？歡迎大家提出任何想法。

Yes, Josh, that's a great question. I will tell you, if our leverage is in a better spot, closer to 2.5x, we'd be buying back shares. We do believe our multiple is at a historic low based on the quality of the portfolio changes that we made today. But we also be cautious that this is an uncertain macro environment and a lot of our major investors really want to ensure that our balance sheet is strengthened as we continue to see this macro uncertainty. We do expect to get to 2.5x probably back half of 2026 at this juncture.

是的，喬什，這是一個很好的問題。我可以告訴你，如果我們的槓桿率處於更有利的位置，接近 2.5 倍，我們就會回購股票。我們相信，基於我們今天所做的投資組合調整的質量，我們的倍數處於歷史低點。但我們也需謹慎，因為目前的宏觀環境充滿不確定性，許多主要投資者都希望確保我們的資產負債表能夠加強，因為我們持續看到這種宏觀不確定性。我們預計，到 2026 年上半年，漲幅可能會達到 2.5 倍。

And once you see that, if our stock price still hasn't recovered from the standpoint, I imagine we'll have some conversations on what's the best capital allocation to make sure that we're returning value back to our shareholders.

一旦你看到這一點，如果我們的股價仍然沒有從這個角度恢復過來，我想我們會討論一下最佳的資本配置方案，以確保我們能為股東創造價值。

Vincent Andrews, Morgan Stanley.

文森安德魯斯，摩根士丹利。

Just wondering if you could talk a little bit more on the packaging side and just help us understand sort of what the rate of change is in the various end markets within there. And if you're seeing any signs of life in certain areas versus incremental challenges and others?

我想請您再多談談包裝方面的問題，幫助我們了解各終端市場的變化速度。如果你看到某些領域出現復甦跡象，而其他領域則面臨漸進式挑戰，那會怎麼樣？

Yes. So Vincent, let me just start by saying that year-to-date packaging is plus 1% for us. So it's low single digits positive. And now having said that, let me just tell you what happened in Q3 and so on and so forth going into Q4, what we are seeing. So we saw a negative high single-digit growth so degrowth of packaging in both United States and specifically, EMEA, which is our biggest packaging market.

是的。文森特，首先我想說的是，今年到目前為止，我們的包裝業務成長了 1%。所以是極低的個位數正數。現在說了這麼多，讓我來告訴你們第三季發生了什麼，以及進入第四季後我們目前的情況。因此，我們看到美國和歐洲、中東及非洲地區（我們最大的包裝市場）的包裝產業出現了負個位數成長，即萎縮。

But also packaging was negative in Latin America. So the food and beverage industry there utilizes quite a bit of our packaging and that was negative as well. So three out of the four geographies were negative on packaging. The only geography that was positive was in Asia and part of that was that our team is getting some business there on local food and beverage, but also part of it is our packaging systems that go into semiconductor and wafer packaging and all that. So it's not traditional consumer packaging, so to say.

但包裝在拉丁美洲也造成了負面影響。因此，當地的食品飲料產業大量使用了我們的包裝，也帶來了負面影響。所以，四個地區中有三個地區對包裝持負面態度。唯一呈現正態勢的地區是亞洲，部分原因是我們的團隊在當地的食品和飲料業務上取得了一些進展，但部分原因也是我們的包裝系統被用於半導體和晶圓包裝等領域。所以，可以說它不是傳統的消費品包裝。

So I think overall speaking, that we saw a positive growth in positive high single-digit growth in Asia, but negative everywhere else. When I go into Q4, I think the big piece is that we are seeing some business gains on packaging in the United States. At least EMEA will continue to be a little bit weak for us. But Latin America, because it's summertime there will be in Q4, we generally have a seasonality of positive food and beverage there. And so that's what's baked into our numbers, and we would -- we expect to grow positive on Latin America side.

所以總的來說，我認為亞洲實現了高個位數的正成長，但其他地區則出現了負成長。進入第四季度，我認為最重要的是，我們看到美國包裝業務取得了一些成長。至少在歐洲、中東和非洲地區，我們的業績仍會比較疲軟。但是拉丁美洲，因為第四季是夏季，所以那裡的食品和飲料市場通常會呈現季節性繁榮景象。所以，這些因素都體現在我們的數據中，我們預期拉丁美洲地區的成長將為正。

No, go ahead, Ashish -- sorry.

不，阿什什，你繼續——抱歉。

I was going to say in Asia, we continue to see positive packaging driven by the semiconductor trend.

我本來想說，在亞洲，我們持續看到半導體發展趨勢所推動的正向包裝產業趨勢。

Okay. And maybe, Jamie, just remind us what's the minimum level of cash you need to hold versus where you are now?

好的。傑米，或許你可以提醒我們一下，你現在的現金儲備與你認為的最低現金儲備是多少？

That range is around $350 million. I think we ended the quarter, Joe, at about $450 million. Yes. And maybe as a reminder, we do generate quite a bit of cash in the fourth quarter mainly as a lot of our cash uses happened in the first half of the year. And then with working capital coming down as sales come back from seasonality, we do expect to have quite a bit of cash generation.

這個範圍大約是3.5億美元。喬，我認為我們本季末的營收約為 4.5 億美元。是的。或許需要提醒的是，我們在第四季確實產生了相當多的現金，主要是因為我們的許多現金支出都發生在上半年。隨著季節性銷售的恢復，營運資金下降，我們預計會產生相當多的現金流。

So going into the fourth quarter, as we kind of telecasted in our comments earlier is that we do expect to pay down another $50 million within the quarter, and that's going to be reflected once we get to the year-end cash balances.

因此，進入第四季度，正如我們之前在評論中提到的那樣，我們預計將在本季度再償還 5000 萬美元，這將在我們計算年末現金餘額時反映出來。

Michael Harrison, Seaport Research Partners.

Michael Harrison，Seaport Research Partners。

Was hoping that we could address a couple of questions that I had in packaging. First of all, is there any sense that you might be losing some market share either to competitors or to paper or other types of packaging, why don't you go ahead on that?

我希望我們能解答我關於包裝方面的一些疑問。首先，您是否感覺到自己正在失去一些市場份額，無論是被競爭對手搶走，還是被紙質或其他類型的包裝搶走？為什麼不採取這些措施呢？

Yes. We don't think so. Our teams doesn't think so. And as I said, overall, when we compare ourselves to some of our competitors seems like we are printing better numbers. Also, we have pretty good insights with our converters and suppliers on the other side and these suppliers supply to most of our competition as well.

是的。我們不這麼認為。我們的團隊可不這麼認為。正如我所說，總體而言，當我們與一些競爭對手進行比較時，我們的業績似乎更好。此外，我們與另一端的加工商和供應商也有著相當不錯的合作關係，而這些供應商也向我們的大多數競爭對手供貨。

So we believe that this is real slowdown. And both consumer and packaging, if you look so broad-based down across the globe, it's really a reflection of all the uncertainty that the globe is facing and the consumer sentiment across the globe is bad. And that's what it reflects, Mike. I don't think it's a matter of losing share. I think if anything, we might be gaining share in certain places.

所以我們認為這是真正的經濟放緩。從全球範圍來看，無論是消費者還是包裝，都反映了全球面臨的各種不確定性，全球消費者的情緒都很低落。麥克，這正是它所反映的。我認為這不是市場佔有率下降的問題。我認為，如果有什麼變化的話，那就是我們在某些​​地區的市場份額可能會增加。

All right. That's very helpful. And then you had previously been optimistic or at least expected that you could see some growth in packaging as a result of more recycled content starting to drive greater consumption of Color and Additives. I was wondering if you could give an update on what you're seeing with that trend? Are your big CPG customers still committed to increasing the amount of recycled content? Or have they stepped back from some of those goals?

好的。那很有幫助。先前，你曾樂觀地認為，或至少預期，隨著更多再生材料的使用，包裝產業會開始推動色素和添加劑的消費量增加，從而實現成長。我想問一下，您能否介紹一下您觀察到的這一趨勢的最新情況？您的大型消費品客戶是否仍致力於提高再生材料含量？或者他們已經放棄了其中的一些目標？

So Mike, I think that phenomena still very much exists both in Europe and Latin America. We are seeing our customers to continue on that front. I think in the United States, it has taken a little bit of a backseat, but it was never a big piece here. But I think that trend continues. And we are seeing supply chains moving from Europe to Latin America.

所以麥克，我認為這種現像在歐洲和拉丁美洲仍然存在。我們看到我們的客戶繼續朝著這個方向努力。我認為在美國，它的重要性有所下降，但它在這裡從來都不是一個重要因素。但我認為這種趨勢還會持續下去。我們看到供應鏈正在從歐洲轉移到拉丁美洲。

Originally, some of that recycled content was being supplied from Europe to Latin America for their local packaging and now the supply chains are moving into Latin America. So our job in this case is to make sure that we don't lose businesses as they move across the ocean. And that we continue to qualify ourselves as the right partner for our customers. But no, we are not seeing any change outside the United States on that front.

最初，部分可回收材料從歐洲供應到拉丁美洲用於當地包裝，現在供應鏈正在轉移到拉丁美洲。因此，我們在這種情況下的工作是確保企業在跨洋搬遷的過程中不會流失。我們將繼續努力，使自己成為客戶的理想合作夥伴。但是，在美國以外，我們並沒有看到這方面有任何變化。

Laurence Alexander, Jefferies.

勞倫斯‧亞歷山大，傑富瑞集團。

There's been a flurry of announcements of new reshoring capacity in the US around appliances and durable goods. Can you give us a sense for how much visibility that might give you for demand in the back half of '26, '27, like when you think that will start to have an impact? And secondly, can you give a characterization of what you're seeing in terms of competitive intensity in both the color side and the engineered materials from regional players or emerging market players. I mean, are they -- is the competitive intensity intensifying given the weak demand environment?

美國近期宣布了一系列關於將家電和耐用消費品生產能力遷回國內的新措施。您能否大致說明一下，這能讓您多大程度上了解 2026 年下半年、2027 年的需求情況？例如，您認為這何時會開始產生影響？其次，您能否描述一下您在色彩方面以及來自區域性企業或新興市場企業的工程材料方面的競爭強度？我的意思是，在需求疲軟的環境下，競爭強度是否正在加劇？

Yes. So maybe I'll take the second one first. And from a competitive perspective, yes, I mean, there is, as you know, quite a bit of overcapacity, especially on the color side of business. And especially if you think about it from Chinese competition in different parts of the world. And that has been always there.

是的。所以，我或許會先選第二個。從競爭的角度來看，是的，我的意思是，正如你所知，產能過剩的情況相當嚴重，尤其是在色彩方面。尤其是從中國企業在世界各地的競爭角度來看。而且這種情況一直都存在。

Our strategy has been always focused on rather than just providing a commodity, providing a solution working with the customer all the way from the design stage of the product to then helping them pick the right thing and then qualifying it for them. So it's not just selling a commodity to them. It is working with them all the way from inception to finally, the product is launched and then serving them globally with great quality and service on time. And I think that's what our customers pay us for that's where our positioning is. We don't chase commodity business, which is where most of this competition is coming in.

我們的策略始終專注於提供解決方案，而不僅僅是提供商品，從產品設計階段開始就與客戶合作，幫助他們選擇合適的產品，並為他們進行資格認證。所以這不僅僅是向他們出售商品。從產品構思到最終上市，我們全程與他們合作，然後按時為全球客戶提供優質的產品和服務。我認為這就是我們的客戶付費給我們的原因，這就是我們的市場定位。我們不追逐大宗商品業務，而這正是大部分競爭的來源。

Having said that, competition is getting aggressive and we have to deal with that, and we are dealing with that. Our teams are doing a good job. As you probably saw, Laurence, our price/mix is still positive, and we are still expanding margins on the color side of our business as well. So -- and we have done that three quarters in a row. So Q1, Q2, Q3 there has been margin expansion in that business.

話雖如此，競爭日趨激烈，我們必須應對這種情況，而且我們正在應對。我們的團隊做得很好。勞倫斯，你可能已經看到了，我們的價格/組合仍然是積極的，而且我們在色彩業務方面的利潤率也在不斷提高。所以——我們已經連續三個季度做到這一點了。因此，第一季、第二季和第三季度，該業務的利潤率均有所提高。

So the teams are doing a great job passing on the price and still not losing to competition because of the value that we bring to the customer. With respect to competition on the SEM side, I would say that the fact that our businesses are growing there, and the only reason SEM didn't do as well as we thought it would do in Q3 was because of this energy dynamics that we highlighted.

因此，各團隊在降低價格方面做得非常出色，並且由於我們為客戶帶來的價值，仍然沒有輸給競爭對手。關於搜尋引擎行銷 (SEM) 方面的競爭，我認為我們的業務正在成長，而 SEM 在第三季表現不如預期，唯一的原因是我們強調的這種能源動態。

There is pretty much. I mean, the competition is there, but there is no direct competition to some of the new innovations that we have launched out of our personal protection business in Dyneema lines. And that's a true differentiator, and we feel that because of that, we can keep winning share and be relevant in the market for times to come. So our innovation is kicking in on the SEM side, and we are beginning to differentiate our product lines, and that's how we are dealing with competition there.

差不多就是這樣。我的意思是，競爭是存在的，但我們在迪尼瑪（Dyneema）個人防護產品線推出的一些創新產品並沒有直接的競爭對手。這就是真正的差異化優勢，我們認為正因為如此，我們才能繼續贏得市場份額，並在未來很長一段時間內保持市場地位。因此，我們在搜尋引擎行銷方面開始進行創新，我們開始使我們的產品線脫穎而出，這就是我們應對競爭的方式。

Now with respect to the appliance question, sorry, I'm going a little long here. We do work with the global appliance makers all across the globe. And as supply chains shift from one region to another, it's hard for us to say whether it's going to create additional volume for us because for all -- pretty much all big appliance makers, we are already spec'd in. And so for us, in that case, the option would be to more make sure that we don't lose that business as it moves. So that's all I can share at this point, Laurence.

至於電器方面的問題，抱歉，我有點離題了。我們與全球各地的家電製造商都有合作。隨著供應鏈從一個地區轉移到另一個地區，我們很難說這是否會為我們創造額外的銷售量，因為對於幾乎所有的大型家電製造商來說，我們已經有了自己的產品線。因此，對我們來說，在這種情況下，最好的選擇是確保我們不會因為業務轉移而失去這項業務。勞倫斯，這就是我現在能透露的全部了。

David Begleiter, Deutsche Bank.

大衛‧貝格萊特，德意志銀行。

Ashish, looking at 2026, can you discuss what's in your control such as productivity and what headwinds you might face from either wage inflation or other costs impacting you?

阿什什，展望 2026 年，你能談談哪些因素是你能夠控制的，例如生產力，以及你可能會面臨哪些不利因素，例如工資上漲或其他成本上漲？

Yes. I mean it's a similar story like this year with flat sales and growth, we still drove EPS growth of -- if you look at our range, it's 3% to 8%. So I mean, I think that's a great example of what this team can do under stressed conditions.

是的。我的意思是，情況和今年類似，銷售額和成長持平，但我們仍然實現了每股收益成長——如果你看一下我們的成長範圍，那就是 3% 到 8%。所以我覺得，這很好地展現了這支球隊在壓力下能做到什麼。

And I think we will obviously make sure that we are if the demand doesn't come, as I said earlier, I think we still believe that on the SEM side of our business, there is enough growth there to drive some growth on the top line, and that will help us bring more on the bottom line. So that's one thing we can influence, commercialize our innovation quickly and to scale on that side of the business because the demand is there.

而且我認為，如果需求沒有出現，我們顯然會確保這一點。正如我之前所說，我們仍然相信，在我們業務的搜尋引擎行銷方面，有足夠的成長空間來推動營收成長，這將有助於我們提高利潤。所以這是我們能夠影響的一件事，那就是快速將我們的創新商業化，並在業務的這一方面擴大規模，因為市場需求就在那裡。

And in certain markets, how much can we supply will also depict how well we do. So that's something that we influence and our teams are working on that side. On the other side of our business, where the demands are not great we are driving productivity and structure reduction and also footprint optimization. And we have done that this year, and we'll continue to do that going into the next year. Either way, I mean, that just has to happen anyways. And if demand really falls off the cliff, then we have another plan to go deeper into that playbook.

在某些市場，我們的供應能力也能反映出我們的業績如何。所以這是我們能夠施加影響力的方面，我們的團隊正在努力解決這個問題。在業務的另一端，需求並不大，我們正在努力提高生產效率、精簡結構並優化佔地面積。今年我們已經做到了這一點，明年我們也會繼續這樣做。不管怎樣，我的意思是，這件事無論如何都會發生。如果需求真的斷崖式下跌，那麼我們還有另一個計劃，要更深入地運用這套策略。

And just lastly, as you move through Q4, are you seeing or expecting to see below normal seasonality?

最後，隨著第四季度的到來，您是否看到或預期會看到低於正常季節性水平的波動？

We've just seen one month of Q4, and it has really come actually a tad bit better than what we had thought, but it's too early to say because in our business, things can shift around quickly. But October clicked pretty okay based on what -- where we were expecting it, and as I said, a tad bit better. So I don't see -- I think that the comps are favorable for us, and that's going to help us.

第四季才過去一個月，實際情況確實比我們預想的要好一些，但現在下結論還為時過早，因為在我們這個行業，情況瞬息萬變。但根據我們的預期，10 月的情況還不錯，而且正如我所說，比預期的還要好一些。所以我認為——我認為比較結果對我們有利，這將對我們有所幫助。

So year over year, it's going to be a better situation, but also seasonality in certain areas, kicks in Latin America, I mentioned earlier, but not a whole lot change, I think comps and then just executing in the current environment. And we are winning some share in packaging in the United States, as I said earlier so that would help. But no, nothing unusual.

所以，從年上看，情況會好轉，但某些地區的季節性因素也會影響業績，例如我之前提到的拉丁美洲，但變化不大，我認為主要取決於比較數據以及在當前環境下的執行情況。正如我之前所說，我們在美國包裝市場贏得了一些份額，這會有所幫助。但沒什麼不尋常的。

This concludes the question-and-answer session and also our conference call. Thank you for participating, and you may now disconnect.

問答環節和電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與，您現在可以斷開連接了。