Amtech Systems Inc (ASYS) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day and welcome to the Amtech Systems fiscal fourth year and full-year 2024 earnings conference call. Please note that this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the call over to Erica Mannion of Sapphire Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

大家好，歡迎參加 Amtech Systems 2024 會計年度第四季及全年財報電話會議。請注意，本活動將進行錄音。現在我想把電話交給 Sapphire Investor Relations 的 Erica Mannion。請開始。

Good afternoon and thank you for joining us for Amtech Systems fiscal fourth quarter and full-year 2024 conference call. With me on the call today are Bob Daigle, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, and Wade Jenke, Chief Financial Officer. After close of market today, Amtech released its financial results for the fiscal fourth quarter and full-year of 2024. The earnings release is posted on the company's website at www.amtechsystems.com in the Investors section.

各位下午好，感謝各位參加 Amtech Systems 2024 會計年度第四季及全年電話會議。今天與我一同出席的有董事長兼執行長 Bob Daigle，以及財務長 Wade Jenke。在今日收盤後，Amtech 已公布 2024 會計年度第四季及全年財務結果。財報新聞稿已發布於公司網站 www.amtechsystems.com 的「投資人」專區。

Before we begin, I'd like to remind everyone that the Safe Harbor disclaimer in our Public Filings covers this call in the webcast. Some of the comments to be made during today's call will contain forward-looking statements and assumptions that are subject to risks and uncertainties, including but not limited to those contained in our SEC filings, all of which are posted within the investors section of our corporate website.

在開始之前，我想提醒各位，我們公開申報文件中的「安全港」免責聲明同樣適用於本次網路直播電話會議。今天電話會議中的部分評論將包含前瞻性陳述與假設，並可能受到風險與不確定性影響（包括但不限於我們向 SEC 申報文件中所載者）；上述文件皆已張貼於公司網站的投資人專區。

The company assumes no obligation to update any such forward-looking statements. You are cautioned not to place undue reliance on forward-looking statements which speak only as of today.

公司不承擔更新任何此類前瞻性陳述之義務。敬請注意勿過度依賴前瞻性陳述；該等陳述僅反映截至今日之情況。

These statements are not a guarantee of future performance and actual results could differ materially from expectations. Among the important factors which could cause actual results to differ materially from those in the forward-looking statements are changes in the technologies used by customers and competitors, change in volatility -- excuse me, and the demand for products, the effect of changing worldwide political and economic conditions including trade sanctions, the effect of overall market conditions including the equity and credit markets and market acceptance risks, ongoing logistics supply chain and labor challenges, and capital allocation plans.

這些陳述並非對未來績效的保證，實際結果可能與預期存在重大差異。可能導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述所述結果出現重大差異的重要因素包括：客戶與競爭對手所採用技術的變化、波動性的變化——抱歉——以及產品需求、全球政治與經濟情勢變動（包括貿易制裁）的影響、整體市場狀況（包括股票與信用市場）的影響與市場接受度風險、持續的物流／供應鏈與勞動力挑戰，以及資本配置計畫。

Other risk factors are detailed in our SEC filings including our Form 10-K and Form 10-Q. Additionally, in today's conference call, we will be referring to Non-GAAP financial measures as we discuss the fourth quarter financial and year-end results.

其他風險因素詳載於我們向 SEC 申報的文件中，包括 Form 10-K 與 Form 10-Q。此外，在今天的電話會議中，當我們討論第四季財務與年終結果時，將引用非 GAAP 財務衡量指標。

You'll find the non-GAAP measures to our actual GAAP results included in the press release issued today. I would now like to turn the call over to Amtech's Chief Executive Officer, Bob Daigle.

您可在今日發布的新聞稿中，找到非 GAAP 指標與實際 GAAP 結果之對照調節表。現在我想把電話交給 Amtech 的執行長 Bob Daigle。

Thank you, Erica. Well, good afternoon and thank you for joining us today. As we conclude our fiscal year, I'd like to take a moment to reflect on the strides we've made to transform our business and strengthen our foundation for future growth.

謝謝你，Erica。各位下午好，感謝今天加入我們。在我們結束本會計年度之際，我想花點時間回顧我們為轉型業務、並強化未來成長基礎所取得的進展。

Looking back over the last 12 months, I'm proud of what our team has accomplished. We've made significant progress in streamlining our business with a specific emphasis on optimizing our operations and delivering operating -- positive operating cash flow across all segments, even amid a strong secular downturn. While overall revenue was down 11% year over year in fiscal year 2024, we delivered $4 million of adjusted EBITDA profit compared to $1.8 million in fiscal year '23.

回顧過去 12 個月，我為團隊的成果感到自豪。我們在精簡業務方面取得顯著進展，特別著重於優化營運，並在強烈的長期景氣下行期間，仍於所有事業部門實現營運——正向的營運現金流。雖然 2024 會計年度整體營收年減 11%，我們仍繳出 400 萬美元的調整後 EBITDA 利潤，相較於 2023 會計年度的 180 萬美元。

Contributing to this result, earlier this year, we implemented a comprehensive restructuring plan which included organizational adjustments, cost reductions, and operational enhancements. These efforts have translated into $7 million of annualized operating savings making our business both more efficient and enabling us to mitigate the existing market dynamics more effectively.

為促成此一成果，我們在今年稍早實施了一項全面性的重整計畫，其中包含組織調整、成本削減與營運改善。這些努力已轉化為每年約 700 萬美元的年化營運節省，使我們的業務更有效率，並讓我們能更有效地因應現有市場動態。

As a part of this initiative in early 2024, we took the strategic action to streamline our product portfolio by exiting from the unprofitable legacy equipment business at PR Hoffman and investing in our more profitable and growing consumables business.

作為 2024 年初此項計畫的一部分，我們採取策略性行動精簡產品組合：退出 PR Hoffman 虧損的傳統設備業務，並投資於獲利能力更高且成長中的耗材業務。

The shift has paid off as sales of the consumable products that PR Hoffman surged by 28% year over year despite overall revenue growth of just 2%. Within our BTU business, with a sharp decline in demand for equipment, we've accelerated our shift to a hybrid manufacturing model combining in-house production with outsource capabilities.

此一轉向已見成效：PR Hoffman 的耗材產品銷售年增 28%，儘管整體營收僅成長 2%。在我們的 BTU 業務方面，面對設備需求大幅下滑，我們加速轉向混合製造模式，結合自有生產與委外能力。

In addition to strengthening our supply chain, this initiative has allowed us to manage lead times reduce capital expenditures, and enhance our operational flexibility. From a cost savings perspective, while these efforts remain ongoing, by the middle of the next fiscal year, we expect to realize approximately $2 million in additional operational savings above the $7 million we have previously discussed. Beyond the core operations of our business, in response to the escalating input costs we faced over the past several years, we strategically adjusted pricing across our offerings helping ensure we protect our margins while maintaining our competitiveness. Combined, despite continued weakness in the market, we managed to maintain positive adjusted EBITDA and reduce working capital to pay off our debt and end the year with a cash balance in excess of $11 million.

除了強化供應鏈之外，這項措施也讓我們得以管理交期、降低資本支出，並提升營運彈性。就成本節省而言，雖然相關工作仍在進行中，但我們預期在下一個會計年度年中之前，將可在先前提及的 700 萬美元之外，再實現約 200 萬美元的額外營運節省。除核心營運之外，為因應過去數年面臨的投入成本上升，我們也策略性地調整各項產品與服務的定價，以在維持競爭力的同時確保毛利率。綜合而言，儘管市場仍然疲弱，我們仍成功維持正向的調整後 EBITDA，並降低營運資金以償還債務，年末現金餘額超過 1,100 萬美元。

Most of our efforts in 2024 focused on optimizing our business to improve profitability. As we begin our 2025 fiscal year, we are now focusing much more of our attention on driving sustainable long term growth with re-occurring revenue streams such as consumables, parts, and services.

我們在 2024 年的大部分努力都聚焦於優化業務以提升獲利能力。隨著我們開始 2025 會計年度，我們將把更多注意力放在推動可持續的長期成長，並著重於耗材、零件與服務等具經常性收入來源的業務。

We believe these revenue streams will strengthen our financial performance in the years ahead by providing higher margins with less cyclical revenue growth. To accelerate the growth in these areas of focus, we recently invested in both business leadership and marketing resources.

我們相信，這些收入來源將在未來數年透過較高毛利與較低循環性的營收成長，強化我們的財務表現。為加速這些重點領域的成長，我們近期在業務領導與行銷資源方面進行了投資。

In addition, as we close our fiscal year, we have renamed our business segments to better align with the markets we serve. Our semiconductor fabrication solutions business previously known as materials and substrate segment will now focus on growing our consumables parts and service offerings for semiconductor wafer and device fabrication.

此外，在本會計年度結束之際，我們也重新命名各事業部門，以更貼近我們所服務的市場。我們的半導體製造解決方案事業（先前稱為材料與基板事業部）將聚焦於擴大半導體晶圓與元件製造相關的耗材、零件與服務供應。

Meanwhile, our thermal processing solutions business, formally, the semiconductor segment will focus on capital equipment for advanced packaging with an emphasis on applications that support AI data centers and on continuing to grow our parts and services businesses. Market demand challenges persist in semiconductor segments that are not associated with AI infrastructure.

同時，我們的熱製程解決方案事業（原半導體事業部）將聚焦於先進封裝的資本設備，並著重於支援 AI 資料中心的應用，同時持續擴大零件與服務業務。在與 AI 基礎設施無關的半導體領域，市場需求挑戰仍然存在。

Our consumables parts and services business did experience some growth in 2024, even with the broad market headwinds but could not overcome the strong headwinds from very weak demand and equipment in areas that were not associated with AI infrastructure. Timing for a broader market recovery remains uncertain but we are well positioned to deliver strong operating results when demand recovers.

即使面對整體市場逆風，我們的耗材、零件與服務業務在 2024 年仍有一些成長，但仍無法抵消在與 AI 基礎設施無關領域中，因設備需求極度疲弱所帶來的強烈逆風。更廣泛的市場復甦時點仍不確定，但當需求回升時，我們已具備良好條件以交出強勁的營運成果。

In conclusion, we are quite proud of the progress we've made this year through our strategic actions. To optimize our operations, reduce costs, and strengthen our balance sheet, we've set ourselves up for more profitable and sustainable growth as markets recover. We are now focused on fully capitalizing on the emerging opportunities in AI infrastructure and expanding our re-occurring revenue streams to drive margin improvement and accelerate growth.

總結來說，我們對今年透過策略性行動所取得的進展深感自豪。透過優化營運、降低成本並強化資產負債表，我們已為市場復甦後更具獲利性且更可持續的成長做好準備。我們目前聚焦於充分掌握 AI 基礎設施所帶來的新興機會，並擴大具經常性的收入來源，以推動毛利率改善並加速成長。

To the current macro, although the current macroeconomic environment is challenging, we are optimistic that our ongoing transformation will deliver profitable growth with high returns on invested capital so we can create meaningful shareholder value.

就目前的總體環境而言，儘管當前宏觀經濟環境充滿挑戰，我們仍樂觀認為，持續推動的轉型將帶來具備高投入資本報酬率的獲利成長，從而創造具實質意義的股東價值。

With that. I'll turn it over to Wade for further details on our financial results.

說到這裡。我將把電話交給 Wade，請他進一步說明我們的財務結果。

Thank you, Bob. Net revenues for the fourth quarter decreased 10% sequentially and decreased 13% from the fourth quarter of fiscal 2023. The sequential decrease is primarily due to lower sales of our diffusion furnaces, reflow and wafer cleaning equipment partially offset by higher consumable parts and service revenue. The decrease from the prior year is primarily attributable to lower sales across most of our product portfolio due to the slowdown in the broader semiconductor market.

謝謝你，Bob。第四季淨營收較前一季下降 10%，較 2023 會計年度第四季下降 13%。季減主要是因為我們的擴散爐、回焊以及晶圓清洗設備銷售下滑，但部分被耗材零件與服務營收增加所抵銷。較去年同期的下降，主要歸因於整體半導體市場放緩，導致我們大多數產品組合的銷售下滑。

In the fourth quarter of our fiscal 2024 period, our GAAP gross margin increased by $7 million compared to the same prior-year period. This is driven by better margin profiles, product mix, and cost save this year. While in the fourth quarter of 2023, we had a $4.6 million intangible asset impairment charge and the $1.5 million write down of inventory related to the polishing equipment line.

在 2024 會計年度第四季期間，我們的 GAAP 毛利較去年同期增加 700 萬美元。這主要受惠於較佳的毛利結構、產品組合，以及今年的成本節省。而在 2023 年第四季，我們認列了 460 萬美元的無形資產減損費用，以及與拋光設備產品線相關的 150 萬美元存貨減記。

On a sequential basis, GAAP gross margins in our thermal processing solutions segment was positively affected by product mix attributed to increased revenue for parts and services as well as improved material costs. GAAP gross margin in our semiconductor fabrication solutions segment slightly decreased on a sequential basis due primarily to less favorable product mix on consumables and equipment. Selling general and administrative expenses increased by approximately $0.6 million on a sequential basis and decreased $2.3 million compared to the fourth quarter of 2023.

以季比來看，我們熱處理解決方案部門的 GAAP 毛利率受到產品組合的正面影響，原因在於零件與服務營收增加，以及材料成本改善。我們半導體製程解決方案部門的 GAAP 毛利率則季比小幅下降，主要是因耗材與設備的產品組合較不利。銷售、一般及行政費用季比增加約 60 萬美元，較 2023 年第四季則減少 230 萬美元。

The sequential increase is due primarily to increased consulting audit and IT expenses. Compared to the same prior year quarter, the decrease is driven by the $0.5 million intangible asset impairment charge in lower labor and labor-related expenses as a result of our cost reduction initiatives, as well as lower shipping on expenses and lower revenues.

季比增加主要是因顧問費、審計費及 IT 費用增加。與去年同期相比，費用下降主要受 50 萬美元無形資產減損費用影響，並且因我們的成本削減措施使人力及人力相關費用降低，同時運輸費用下降以及營收較低。

Research and development engineering expenses increased by $0.3 million sequentially and decreased $1.6 million compared to the prior year fourth quarter. With the sequential decrease due primarily to the timing of purchases related to specific projects in both segments. And the decrease from prior year. Fourth quarter was attributable to development efforts in our semiconductor fabrication solution segment that did not reoccur. GAAP net loss for the fourth quarter of fiscal 2024 was $0.5 million or $0.04 per share. This compares to GAAP net income of $0.4 million or $0.03 per share for the preceding quarter and a GAAP net loss of $12 million or $0.85 per share for the fourth quarter of fiscal 2023.

研發工程費用季比增加 30 萬美元，較去年第四季則減少 160 萬美元。季比下降主要是因兩個部門特定專案相關採購時點的影響。而相較去年同期的下降。第四季則歸因於我們半導體製程解決方案部門的開發工作未再發生。2024 會計年度第四季 GAAP 淨損為 50 萬美元，或每股 0.04 美元。相較之下，前一季 GAAP 淨利為 40 萬美元，或每股 0.03 美元；而 2023 會計年度第四季 GAAP 淨損為 1,200 萬美元，或每股 0.85 美元。

Non-GAAP net loss for the fourth quarter of fiscal 2024 was $7,000 or $0.00 per share. This compares to non-GAAP net income of $1.1 million or $0.08 per share for the preceding quarter and non-GAAP net loss of $2.5 million or $0.18 per share for the fourth quarter of fiscal 2023. For cash, unrestricted cash, and cash equivalents at September 30, 2024, were $11.1 million compared to $13.1 million at September 30, 2023.

2024 會計年度第四季非 GAAP 淨損為 7,000 美元，或每股 0.00 美元。相較之下，前一季非 GAAP 淨利為 110 萬美元，或每股 0.08 美元；而 2023 會計年度第四季非 GAAP 淨損為 250 萬美元，或每股 0.18 美元。截至 2024 年 9 月 30 日，現金、非受限現金及約當現金為 1,110 萬美元，較 2023 年 9 月 30 日的 1,310 萬美元下降。

Debt payments during the three months ended were $4 million which included the final payment of our term loan and revolving credit facility. Net cash as of September 30, 2024, was $10.8 million compared to $2.4 million as of September 30, 2023.

在截至該日的三個月期間內，債務償還金額為 400 萬美元，其中包含我們定期貸款與循環信用額度的最後一筆付款。截至 2024 年 9 月 30 日，淨現金為 1,080 萬美元，較 2023 年 9 月 30 日的 240 萬美元增加。

Now turning to our outlook, for the first fiscal quarter ending December 31, 2024, we expect revenues in the range of $21 million to $24 million with adjusted EBITDA nominally neutral. The near-term outlook for revenue and earnings remains challenging. The actions we took in fiscal 2024 will reduce Amtech's structural costs by approximately $7 million annually. Also by mid-next fiscal year, we expect to realize an additional $2 million in operational savings from our outsourcing to contract manufacturing.

接著談我們的展望：對於截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的第一個會計季度，我們預期營收介於 2,100 萬至 2,400 萬美元之間，調整後 EBITDA 大致持平。短期內的營收與獲利展望仍具挑戰。我們在 2024 會計年度採取的行動，將使 Amtech 的結構性成本每年約降低 700 萬美元。此外，至下一會計年度年中，我們預期透過外包給委外製造，將再實現額外 200 萬美元的營運節省。

We are focused on optimizing our operations and delivering positive operating cash flows across all our segments. Even amid a prolonged secular downturn. Operating results can significantly be impacted positively or negatively by the timing of orders, system shipments, logistical challenges, and the financial results of semiconductor manufacturers.

我們專注於最佳化營運，並在所有部門實現正向營運現金流。即使在長期的結構性下行週期之中。營運結果可能會因訂單時點、系統出貨、物流挑戰，以及半導體製造商的財務表現而出現顯著的正面或負面影響。

Additionally, the semiconductor equipment industries can be cyclical and inherently impacted by changes in market demand. Actual results may differ materially in the weeks and months ahead. A portion of Amtech's results is denominated in Renminbis, a Chinese currency. The outlook provided is based on an assumed exchange rate between the United States Dollar and the Renminbi. Changes in the value of the Renminbi in relation to the United States Dollar could cause actual results to differ from expectations.

此外，半導體設備產業具有週期性，且本質上會受到市場需求變化的影響。未來數週與數月的實際結果可能與預期存在重大差異。Amtech 的部分業績以人民幣（中國貨幣）計價。所提供的展望係基於美元與人民幣之間的假設匯率。人民幣相對美元的價值變動，可能導致實際結果與預期不同。

I will now turn over the call to the operator for questions. Operator?

我現在把電話交給接線員，進入提問環節。接線員？

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question-and-answer session. (Operator Instructions).

謝謝。各位女士、先生，我們現在開始問答環節。（接線員指示）。

Craig Irwin, Roth Capital Partners.

Craig Irwin，Roth Capital Partners。

Hi, good evening and thank you for taking my questions. First, I should say congratulations on the really good execution bringing down costs, tightening everything up in this environment that we're all operating through. So great execution there.

嗨，晚安，謝謝讓我提問。首先，我想說恭喜你們在這個我們都身處其中的環境下，確實把成本降下來、把各方面都收緊，執行得非常好。在這方面的執行力很出色。

Thank you, Craig.

謝謝你，Craig。

My question is this and it's a little bit high level, but you're renaming your segments, right? And that speaks for a refreshed and renewed strategic focus. Can you maybe call out some of the applications or opportunities where you think Amtech can participate in sort of AI and data center growth and electricity demand growth over the next several years? What do you see as relatively fresh products that you have to offer into this market? And how do you expect this to take shape as far as visibility for the investment community?

我的問題是這樣，層級稍微高一些：你們正在重新命名各個事業部門，對吧？這反映出策略重點的更新與再聚焦。你能否點出一些應用或機會，說明你們認為 Amtech 在未來幾年可如何參與 AI 與資料中心成長，以及用電需求成長？你們有哪些相對較新的產品可以提供給這個市場？就投資社群的能見度而言，你們預期這會如何逐步成形？

All right. Great, great. Yes. So let me start again at the high level. There were a couple of reasons for really revisiting our segment definitions and some of it was, to be frank, I thought it was a little bit confusing. I think some of the -- what we referred to is the semiconductor segment goes back to the days where Amtech was heavily involved with solar. So it was either solar business or semi.

好的。很好，很好。是的。我先從高層次再談一次。我們重新檢視事業部門定義有幾個原因，其中一部分坦白說，我覺得有點令人困惑。我認為我們所稱的「半導體部門」可追溯到 Amtech 早期深度參與太陽能的年代。所以當時不是太陽能業務，就是半導體。

And when I looking at the portfolio, a lot of what -- when I look at our business, we really have the semiconductor front end of our business, which is really involved in actual semiconductor device fabrication, which is again, what will be and it's broader than just materials and substrates. A lot of what we do there is, involves services and parts for that part of the business.

當我在看投資組合時，很多內容——當我看我們的業務時，我們其實有半導體前段業務，這部分確實涉及實際的半導體元件製造，也就是晶片製造本身，而且範圍不僅僅是材料和基板。我們在那裡做的很多事情，包含該業務部分所需的服務與零組件。

And then what we've been referring to is the semiconductor segment, it's really back-end packaging and assembly of the electronics. So again, it was trying to clean this up and get clearer definition about -- we have the front end of our business which is, semi-fab related and then we have the back end which is packaging and assembly and trying to get some clarity around that. Now, then back to the strategic question of where do we grow, obviously AI, everybody has been targeting AI as a growth driver for their business. We're no different. We play there. We have been playing there.

然後我們一直提到的半導體部門，其實是電子產品的後段封裝與組裝。所以同樣地，我們是想把這些梳理清楚，並對——我們有與半導體製造（semi-fab）相關的前段業務，然後有封裝與組裝的後段業務——做出更清楚的定義，並讓這部分更明確。接著回到策略問題：我們要在哪裡成長？顯然，AI，大家都把 AI 當作其業務的成長驅動力。我們也不例外。我們在那個領域有布局。我們一直都在那個領域。

Primarily on the back end, our reflow equipment, for example, is used extensively in terms of the advanced packaging applications for semiconductor production. We are also looking however, at opportunities that are adjacent that would relate a little bit. It's more on the consumable side where we are working and it's early stage with some customers that have some unique solutions for packaging and in particular thermal management, which has been, talked a lot about in terms of the challenges with these more advanced AI chips, how much heat they're generating.

主要是在後段，例如我們的回流焊（reflow）設備，在半導體生產的先進封裝應用中被廣泛使用。不過我們也在看一些相鄰的機會，會有一些關聯。那更偏向耗材端，我們正與部分客戶合作（目前仍在早期階段），他們在封裝，尤其是熱管理方面有一些獨特解決方案；而熱管理一直被大量討論，因為這些更先進的 AI 晶片所面臨的挑戰之一，就是它們產生的熱量非常高。

We are involved and have been involved in the -- with consumables at the front end with one of our customers that's heavily focused on trying to solve those problems. So I see that as an opportunity really to broaden what we're doing in an area of AI beyond just the back end equipment, but also in the consumables area.

我們已經參與、也一直參與前段的耗材業務，與我們的一位客戶合作，而該客戶高度聚焦於解決那些問題。因此我把這視為一個機會，能把我們在 AI 領域所做的事情擴大，不僅僅是後段設備，也包括耗材領域。

But stepping back even further from that, I see the consumables parts and service business which as we noted in the call, even, even with a very challenging industry dynamics, we did see growth. We were able to grow our consumables parts and service business. Although less than we would have obviously liked, we did see growth. All of our decline, more than all our decline was driven by weakness in the equipment sector.

但再更往後退一步來看，我看到耗材、零件與服務業務——正如我們在電話會議中提到的——即使在非常具挑戰性的產業動態下，我們仍然看到成長。我們得以讓耗材、零件與服務業務成長。雖然成長幅度低於我們當然希望的水準，但我們確實看到成長。我們的下滑全部——甚至超過全部——都是由設備部門的疲弱所驅動。

So when I look ahead, what I want to see is transform Amtech into much more of a consumables parts service business. Not that, equipment areas, especially AI-related are very much of interest, but I do see those areas as driving our margins and driving growth opportunities. And as we mentioned in the script that's really where we're investing, where we've brought on, we're bringing talent on board. I'll characterize, we were very, very fragmented in what we're now calling semiconductor fabrication solutions. We were really managing those as three tiny businesses and they're now under single leadership with shared commercial resources in marketing and sales.

所以當我展望未來，我希望看到的是把 Amtech 轉型為更偏向耗材、零件與服務的公司。並不是說設備領域，尤其是與 AI 相關的設備不重要；但我確實認為那些領域能推動我們的毛利率並帶來成長機會。而且如同我們在講稿中提到的，那正是我們投資的方向，也是我們已經引進、正在引進人才的地方。我會這樣形容：我們在現在稱為「半導體製造解決方案」的領域過去非常、非常分散。我們其實是把它們當作三個很小的業務在管理，而現在它們已經在單一領導之下，並共享行銷與銷售的商業資源。

We will also share in the areas of for product development as we move forward. So I see the investments in those areas where frankly we've been pretty passive. But I think there's plenty of opportunity I believe for us to proactively grow that part of the business. It will not only I think improve our margins drive growth but will also reduce the cyclicality that is inherent to any of these -- any business that's heavily reliant on equipment sales.

隨著我們往前推進，我們也會在產品開發方面共享資源。因此我看到在那些領域的投資——坦白說，我們過去相當被動。但我相信那部分業務有很多機會，讓我們能更主動地成長。我認為這不僅會改善我們的毛利率、帶動成長，也會降低任何高度依賴設備銷售的業務所固有的週期性。

I don't know if that answered your question, Craig? Or if you'd like me to elaborate on anything, happy to add.

Craig，我不知道這樣是否回答了你的問題？或者如果你希望我就任何部分再多做說明，我也很樂意補充。

It goes a long way to answering the question actually starts to step into the secondary I really wanted to ask about. So many of us following Amtech for the last number of years have been quite excited about the participation in the silicon carbide industry, the emerging power semiconductor technology. It can be transformational to our economy, not just electric vehicles, but in industrial equipment, military equipment, all sorts of things. And it appeared that Amtech was particularly well positioned on the consumable side to serve a niche in sort of consumables for wafer production.

這其實在很大程度上回答了問題，也開始切入我真正想問的第二個問題。我們當中許多人在過去幾年一直關注 Amtech，對於公司參與碳化矽產業——這項新興的功率半導體技術——一直感到相當振奮。它可能對我們的經濟帶來變革性影響，不僅是電動車，還包括工業設備、軍用設備，以及各式各樣的應用。而且看起來 Amtech 在耗材端的布局特別到位，能在晶圓生產的耗材利基市場中提供服務。

Can you maybe share with us, your growth in the consumables business? Did you see absolute growth in cassettes and other materials supplied into the silicon carbon industry? That industry is going through a cyclical readjustment as you pointed out. It seems there is absolute growth going on. Are you seeing more growth in things like cassettes for 8-inch wafers and 6-inch wafers? Can you just talk about where the green shoots are in that industry?

你能否和我們分享一下，你們耗材業務的成長情況？你們是否看到在碳化矽產業中，卡匣（cassettes）以及其他材料供應出現絕對成長？如你所指出，該產業正在經歷週期性的再調整。但看起來仍有絕對成長正在發生。你們是否在例如 8 吋晶圓與 6 吋晶圓用的卡匣等產品上看到更多成長？你能談談這個產業中哪些地方開始出現復甦跡象（green shoots）嗎？

Yes. So we again, yeah, we've participated pretty broadly in and went and continue to do so in silicon carbide wafer production with our consumables out of PR Hoffman. And as I mentioned, we saw very substantial year-over-year growth in that PR Hoffman part of the business, 28% actually year over year in the consumables out of PR Hoffman. A lot of that was related to silicon carbide. So, again, I think, the luster and EV has dimmed a bit and there's been some inventory corrections going on. So at least, this is purely opinion, Craig.

是的。所以我們確實——是的——透過 PR Hoffman 的耗材，在碳化矽晶圓生產方面參與得相當廣泛，而且我們已經參與並且持續參與。如我提到的，我們在 PR Hoffman 這部分業務看到非常顯著的年對年成長，PR Hoffman 的耗材年增率實際上是 28%。其中很大一部分與碳化矽有關。所以再說一次，我認為電動車（EV）的光環確實淡了一些，也出現了一些庫存修正。所以至少——這純粹是我的看法，Craig。

But I do believe, where people were expecting 30%, 40% market growth EV-related, we're likely to see something that's more in the, let's say, normalized 15%, 20% still very substantial growth. But I think the wild card in all of this is there's been so much investment in silicon carbide globally and it's continuing, especially in Mainland China, that there's a lot of effort right now, frankly in expanding the application base for silicon carbide.

但我確實相信，原本大家預期與電動車相關的市場成長會有 30%、40%，我們更可能看到的是較為「常態化」的 15%、20%——仍然是非常可觀的成長。但我認為這裡最大的變數在於：全球對碳化矽的投資非常多，而且仍在持續，尤其是在中國大陸，因此目前有很多努力，坦白說，是在擴大碳化矽的應用基礎。

So I think the expectations for silicon carbide growth where maybe people were saying 30%, 40% tied directly to EV have been somewhat tempered. I'm not so sure we're not going to see growth rates that approach those levels with the combination of what was going to be EV and these other application areas that everybody's focused on for, expanding their base. So I'm still very optimistic frankly around the silicon car by growth driver for us. We participate broadly. It's a very attractive market application area.

所以我認為，對碳化矽成長的預期——原本可能有人說 30%、40% 並且直接與電動車綁定——已經有所降溫。但我也不確定我們不會看到接近那些水準的成長率，因為把原本的電動車需求與大家正聚焦的其他應用領域結合起來，以擴大其基礎。因此坦白說，我對碳化矽作為我們的成長驅動力仍然非常樂觀。我們的參與面很廣。這是一個非常具吸引力的市場應用領域。

The enthusiasm is tempered around EV, but that made, that I think will get offset at least to some degree by other applications.

市場對電動車（EV）的熱情有所降溫，但我認為這至少在某種程度上會被其他應用所抵銷。

Understood. Well, thank you for taking my questions. I'll go ahead and hop back in the queue.

了解。好的，謝謝你回答我的問題。我會回到隊列裡等候。

All right. Thank you, Craig.

好的。謝謝你，Craig。

(Operator Instructions) Mark Miller from The Benchmark Company.

(接線員指示) 來自 The Benchmark Company 的 Mark Miller。

I'd like to add my congratulations to the management, the cost management and the expectations for more cost reductions next year. I was just thinking there, I'm just trying to understand your cash went down $2 million last quarter. What is your outlook for cash flow generation over the next six months?

我也想向管理團隊致上恭喜，包含成本管理，以及明年預期會有更多降本。我剛剛在想，我想了解你們上季現金減少了 200 萬美元。你們對未來六個月的現金流產生能力有何展望？

Yeah, I can take that. So our cash flow generation will be partially fueled by our operation activities as we reduced inventory.

是的，我可以回答。因此，我們的現金流產生將部分由營運活動所帶動，因為我們降低了庫存。

And then of course, our positive if in the future quarters.

然後當然，在未來幾個季度我們也會轉為正向。

Just -- no, no, Mark. We paid off. What was the number?

等等——不，不，Mark。我們已經償還了。數字是多少？

We paid off around $4 million.

我們償還了大約 400 萬美元。

Yeah. So our reason cash went down is we paid off the rest of our debt, right? We want to be debt free. So we basically paid off $4 million. And we're done. We're done. No more debt right now.

是的。所以我們現金下降的原因是我們把剩餘的債務都還清了，對吧？我們希望做到零負債。所以我們基本上償還了 400 萬美元。而且我們完成了。完成了。目前沒有任何債務了。

Okay. So there's no more covenants or anything you have to worry about because you paid off your term loan and revolver?

好的。所以因為你們已經還清了定期貸款和循環信貸，就沒有任何契約條款之類需要擔心了？

Yeah. And frankly, again, that was our focus, right? Get the operations to be cash flow positive, even during the downturn, be aggressive on working capital, get rid of the debt. Again, we can -- big believer, we were going to control our own destiny on costs. We're going to control our own destiny in the medium long term by our growth initiatives that don't just -- not just be relying on market recovery, but look at expanding our business. And also, obviously, it'll be nice. It'll be nice when the market actually does recover, which it will. I just don't know when that will be.

是的。坦白說，再次強調，這就是我們的重點，對吧？讓營運即使在景氣下行時也能產生正向現金流；在營運資金上積極作為；把債務清掉。再說一次，我們堅信要在成本上掌握自己的命運。我們也將透過中長期的成長計畫掌握自己的命運，而不是只依賴市場復甦，而是著眼於擴大我們的業務。而且，顯然，市場真正復甦時會很不錯，而它也一定會復甦。我只是不知道會在什麼時候。

And your mergers ticked up. You were saying there was mix, I'm just wondering margin outlook ticked up. It's the highest of the year for the fourth quarter. I'm just wondering what you're thinking about in terms of margin outlook?

你們的毛利率上升了。你提到有產品組合因素，我想了解毛利率展望也上調了。第四季是今年最高。我想問你們對毛利率展望的看法是什麼？

Yeah, sure. Thank you. So for our margin outlook, given the guidance for Q1 coming into fiscal year 2025 is going to be slightly close just under that Q4 performance given what we're shipping out that quarter. But going in after that, we expect to be right in that range of 40%.

好的，當然。謝謝。就毛利率展望而言，鑑於 2025 財年第一季的指引，因為該季度的出貨內容，我們的表現會略低於第四季、接近但稍微低於第四季的水準。但之後我們預期會維持在約 40% 的區間。

Yes, a lot of the restructuring we did, Mark was really aimed at that right is at similar volume revenue numbers, similar mix, being in that 40%-ish or better. And then hopefully with again, revenue should help that.

是的，Mark，我們做的許多重整其實就是針對這點：在相近的出貨量與營收數字、相近的產品組合下，毛利率能維持在約 40% 或更好。然後希望隨著營收回升，也能進一步改善。

Right. When revenue and more volume comes in, we'll get more operating leverage and feed into some of that overhead at that cost of goods sold level and we'll be able to enhance our margins.

沒錯。當營收與出貨量增加時，我們會有更多營運槓桿，並吸收部分製造成本層級（銷貨成本）中的間接費用，從而提升我們的毛利率。

In terms of part of that.

就其中一部分而言。

Sorry. Part of that contract manufacturing strategy that Amtech has put in place will help yield even more results in the future.

抱歉。Amtech 已經推動的部分合約製造策略，未來將有助於帶來更多成果。

Okay. R&D kicked up last quarter. Do you expect that to come back down to third quarter for in terms of average for 2025?

好的。研發費用上季增加了。你們預期 2025 年的平均水準會回落到第三季的水準嗎？

What was that? R&D this, this quarter was up a little bit.

你說的是什麼？這一季的研發費用是稍微高了一點。

It was a little bit offset from last quarter. Honestly, some of our R&D costs pushed out into the Q4 from the Q3. So we're going to go pretty much back to our normal run rate if you average the two quarters.

相較上一季有些變動。老實說，我們部分研發成本從第三季延後到第四季認列。所以如果把這兩季平均來看，我們會大致回到正常的常態水準。

Can you tell me relate what that is, please?

你能告訴我那大概是多少嗎？謝謝。

We should be right around a million for the quarter.

我們每季應該大約在 100 萬美元左右。

Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you.

好的。好。謝謝。謝謝。

You're welcome.

不客氣。

Thanks, Mark.

謝謝你，Mark。

There are no further questions at this time. I will not turn the call back to Bob Daigle. Please continue.

目前沒有其他問題。我現在把電話交回給 Bob Daigle。請繼續。

All right. Well, thank you for joining our conference call today. And I'm looking forward to updating everybody on the progress we're making in the months to come. Thank you and have a good evening.

好的。感謝各位今天參加我們的電話會議。我期待在接下來幾個月向大家更新我們所取得的進展。謝謝，祝各位晚安。

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

各位女士、先生，今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝各位的參與。您現在可以掛線。