Amtech Systems Inc (ASYS) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and welcome to the Amtech Systems fiscal second quarter 2024 earnings call. Please note that this event is being recorded.

大家好，歡迎參加 Amtech Systems 2024 會計年度第二季財報電話會議。請注意，本活動將被錄音。

I would now like to turn the call over to Erica Mannion of Sapphire Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

現在我想把電話會議交給 Sapphire Investor Relations 的 Erica Mannion。請開始。

Good afternoon, and thank you for joining us for Amtech Systems' fiscal second quarter 2024 conference call. With me today on the call are Bob Daigle, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, and Lisa Gibbs, Financial Officer. After close of market today, Amtech released its financial results for the fiscal second quarter of 2024. The earnings release is posted on the Company's website at www.amtechsystems.com in the Investors section.

各位下午好，感謝各位參加 Amtech Systems 2024 會計年度第二季電話會議。今天與我一同出席的有董事長兼執行長 Bob Daigle，以及財務長 Lisa Gibbs。今日收盤後，Amtech 已公布 2024 會計年度第二季財務結果。財報新聞稿已發布於公司網站 www.amtechsystems.com 的「投資人」專區。

Before we begin, I'd like to remind everyone that the Safe Harbor disclaimer in our public filings covers this call and our webcast. Some of the comments to be made during today's call will contain forward-looking statements and assumptions that are subject to risks and uncertainties, including, but not limited to, those contained in our SEC filings, all of which are posted within the Investors section of our corporate website.

在開始之前，我想提醒各位，我們公開申報文件中的「安全港」聲明同樣適用於本次電話會議與網路直播。今天電話會議中的部分評論將包含前瞻性陳述與假設，並可能受到風險與不確定性影響，包括但不限於我們向 SEC 申報文件中所載者；相關文件皆已張貼於公司網站的「投資人」專區。

The Company assumes no obligation to update any such forward-looking statements. You are cautioned not to place undue reliance on forward-looking statements, which speak only as of today, and these statements are not a guarantee of future performance and actual results could differ materially from current expectations.

公司不承擔更新任何此類前瞻性陳述之義務。敬請注意勿過度依賴前瞻性陳述；該等陳述僅反映截至今日之情況，並不保證未來表現，實際結果可能與目前預期存在重大差異。

Among the important factors which could cause actual results to differ materially from those in the forward-looking statements are changes in technologies used by customers and competitors change in volatility in demand for products, the effect of changing worldwide political and economic conditions, including trends, trade sanctions, the effect of overall market conditions, including the equity and credit markets and market acceptance risks, ongoing logistics, supply chain and labor challenges and capital allocation plans. Other risk factors are detailed in our SEC filings, including our Form 10-K and Forms 10-Q.

可能導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述所述結果出現重大差異的重要因素包括：客戶與競爭對手所採用技術的變化、產品需求波動的變化、全球政治與經濟情勢變動之影響（包括趨勢與貿易制裁）、整體市場狀況之影響（包括股票與信貸市場）以及市場接受度風險、持續的物流／供應鏈／勞動力挑戰，以及資本配置計畫。其他風險因素詳載於我們向 SEC 申報的文件中，包括 Form 10-K 與 Form 10-Q。

Additionally, in today's conference call, we will be referring to non-GAAP financial measures as we discuss the second quarter financial results you'll find a reconciliation of these non-GAAP measures to our actual GAAP results included in the press release issued today.

此外，在今天的電話會議中，當我們討論第二季財務結果時，將引用非 GAAP 財務衡量指標；您可在今日發布的新聞稿中找到這些非 GAAP 指標與實際 GAAP 結果之對帳表。

I will now turn the call over to Amtech's Chief Executive Officer, Bob Daigle.

現在我將把電話會議交給 Amtech 的執行長 Bob Daigle。

Okay. Thanks. Thank you, Erica. So good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining Amtech's quarterly conference call. I'm pleased with the progress we're making to improve our cost structure and position the Company for strong operating results as markets recover. Revenue of $25.4 million exceeded the high end of our guidance range.

好的。謝謝。謝謝你，Erica。各位下午好，感謝各位參加 Amtech 的季度電話會議。我對我們在改善成本結構、並在市場復甦時讓公司具備強勁營運表現的進展感到滿意。營收 2,540 萬美元高於我們指引區間的上緣。

And more importantly, we delivered adjusted EBITDA of $0.8 million with soft overall demand. Macroeconomic landscape for our target end markets remains mixed within the semiconductor industry. While we continue to experience softness in near term demand for back-end packaging applications. We are seeing an uptick in nurture near-shoring activities in North America and at Chinese assets as they add capacity within our materials and substrates end markets, we are seeing a similar balance in puts and takes consumables demand, particularly for silicon carbide.

更重要的是，在整體需求疲弱的情況下，我們仍達成調整後 EBITDA 80 萬美元。就我們目標終端市場而言，半導體產業的總體經濟環境仍呈現分歧。雖然我們在後段封裝應用的短期需求仍感受到疲弱。但我們看到北美的近岸化活動以及中國資產端的活動有所升溫，因其在我們的材料與基板終端市場擴增產能；在耗材需求方面，我們也看到類似的拉鋸，特別是在碳化矽方面。

Semiconductor production has been lumpy due to customer buying patterns and softening in overall electric vehicle demand. However, we are seeing stronger demand for replacement parts and our foundry services. While we await the rebound in demand across broader markets, we continue to focus on optimizing our operations through the measures implemented over the past several quarters, we believe we have better aligned the size of our organization to support current market demand.

由於客戶採購模式以及整體電動車需求轉弱，半導體生產呈現不均衡波動。然而，我們看到替換零件與我們晶圓代工服務的需求更為強勁。在等待更廣泛市場需求反彈之際，我們持續聚焦於透過過去數季所採取的措施來優化營運；我們相信，組織規模已更妥善地與目前市場需求相匹配。

This has resulted in near term adjusted EBITDA profitability and will help us deliver strong operating results once the broader semiconductor market rebounds. Moreover, we are actively leveraging contract manufacturing partnerships, further enhance our operational efficiencies and provide more flexibility. For example, we showcased our first reflow oven assembled by one of our North American partners at a recent industry tradeshow.

這使我們在短期內達成調整後 EBITDA 獲利，並將在更廣泛的半導體市場反彈時，協助我們交出強勁的營運成果。此外，我們正積極運用委外製造合作夥伴，以進一步提升營運效率並提供更高彈性。例如，我們在近期的產業展會上展示了由我們北美合作夥伴之一組裝的第一台回焊爐。

This milestone underscores our goal of creating greater flexibility throughout our manufacturing operations from components and assemblies to complete solutions, optimize our fixed cost structure. And this positions us well to capitalize on the major investments being made in the semiconductor industry to expand regional manufacturing. We are also building on the actions taken last quarter to refined our pricing to address input cost inflation experienced in recent years. Nutool pricing is now more closely aligned with prevailing costs, and we are beginning to see the improvement in the margin profile of our backlog. However, it will be several quarters before we see the full benefit due to existing backlog and parts of our business.

這一里程碑凸顯我們的目標：從零組件與組裝到完整解決方案，在整個製造營運中建立更高的彈性，並優化我們的固定成本結構。這也使我們能夠把握半導體產業為擴大區域製造而進行的重大投資所帶來的機會。我們也在延續上季採取的行動，進一步精進定價，以因應近年來投入成本通膨的影響。Nutool 的定價如今更貼近現行成本水準，我們也開始看到訂單積壓的毛利結構有所改善。然而，由於既有訂單積壓以及我們部分業務的特性，要看到完整效益仍需數個季度。

In summary, we remain focused on optimizing the aspects of our business within our control as we anticipate the next cyclical upturn in our target markets. The success of our initiatives have resulted in a second consecutive quarter of positive adjusted EBITDA and operating cash flow. Despite the prevailing softness in the markets we serve.

總結而言，在我們預期目標市場下一輪景氣循環上行之際，我們仍專注於優化公司可控的各項面向。我們各項計畫的成功，使我們連續第二季達成正向的調整後 EBITDA 與營運現金流。儘管我們所服務的市場仍普遍疲弱。

Looking ahead, Amtech remains well positioned to capitalize on several secular trends that will drive demand for our products. Despite near term softness in the electric vehicle market, advanced mobility applications which include both hybrid as well as full electric vehicles, are expected to remain a primary driver of growth for the industry within the broader semiconductor market, our tools play a critical role in the advanced packaging of processors used for and advanced high-performance computing as well as artificial intelligence applications.

展望未來，Amtech 仍具備良好定位，可把握多項長期結構性趨勢所帶動的產品需求。儘管電動車市場短期疲弱，包含油電混合與純電車在內的先進移動應用，預期仍將是產業成長的主要驅動力；在更廣泛的半導體市場中，我們的設備在用於先進高效能運算以及人工智慧應用之處理器的先進封裝方面，扮演關鍵角色。

Also with the backdrop of the pandemic and global tensions, sizable investments are being made by governments and industry to build more resilient and secure semiconductor and electronic assembly supply chain. This will create additional opportunities for our tools across the electronics industry. I'm confident that the strategic initiatives we are implementing to enhance operational efficiency and reduce working capital will generate significant shareholder value as our target markets regain momentum.

此外，在疫情與全球緊張局勢的背景下，各國政府與產業正投入大量資金，以建立更具韌性且更安全的半導體與電子組裝供應鏈。這將為我們的設備在整個電子產業帶來更多機會。我有信心，我們正在推動的策略性計畫——提升營運效率並降低營運資金——將在目標市場重拾動能時，為股東創造顯著價值。

And with that, I'll turn it over to Lisa for further details on the second quarter.

接下來，我把時間交給 Lisa，請她進一步說明第二季的細節。

Thinking about net revenues increased 2% sequentially and decreased 24% from the second quarter of fiscal 2023 The sequential increase is primarily due to increased consumable sales in our material and substrate segment as customers update their buying patterns and adjust inventory levels to decrease from prior year is primarily attributable to lower sales across most of our product portfolio due to a slowdown in the broader semiconductor market.

就淨營收而言，較前一季增加 2%，較 2023 會計年度第二季下降 24%。這次的季增主要來自我們材料與基板事業部的耗材銷售增加，因客戶更新其採購模式並調整庫存水位；而較去年同期的下降，主要歸因於更廣泛半導體市場放緩，導致我們大多數產品組合的銷售下滑。

We ended the quarter with $44.3 million in backlog, a decrease of $5.7 million from December 31, 2023. Our book-to-bill ratio as of March 31, 2024, was 0.8 to 1. As we have commented previously, our lead times were extending too long. And now with our contract manufacturers, our lead times are improving. We are shipping out this equipment that was booked in some cases several months to over a year ago, which negatively impacted margins this quarter due to inflation.

本季結束時，我們的訂單積壓為 4,430 萬美元，較 2023 年 12 月 31 日減少 570 萬美元。截至 2024 年 3 月 31 日，我們的接單出貨比為 0.8 比 1。如同我們先前所評論的，我們的交期曾延長得過久。而現在透過我們的委外製造商，交期正在改善。我們正在出貨這些設備，其中部分是在數個月前甚至一年以上前就已接單；由於通膨影響，這在本季對毛利率造成負面影響。

Over the past year, we have improved our lead times and our booking business with better margin profiles. We are also seeing margin improvements as a result of product mix within our material and substrates segment, potentially one to one book-to-bill this quarter. Gaap gross margin was flat sequentially and decreased compared to the same prior year period. In our semiconductor segment, GAAP gross margin was negatively affected by product mix and increased material costs, primarily attributed to shipments of our horizontal diffusion furnaces.

在過去一年中，我們改善了交期，並透過更佳的毛利結構提升了接單業務。我們也看到，由於材料與基板事業部門的產品組合變化，毛利有所改善，本季的接單出貨比（book-to-bill）可能接近一比一。GAAP 毛利率較前一季持平，但較去年同期下降。在半導體事業部門，GAAP 毛利率受到產品組合與材料成本上升的不利影響，主要歸因於我們水平式擴散爐的出貨。

Gaap gross margin in our material and substrate segment increased sequentially and compared to the same prior year period, due primarily to a more favorable product mix with increased consumable sales, partially offset by lower equipment sales. Selling, general and administrative or SG&A expenses decreased $0.3 million on a sequential basis and decreased $3.2 million compared to the prior year period.

我們材料與基板事業部門的 GAAP 毛利率較前一季及去年同期均上升，主要因產品組合更有利、耗材銷售增加所致，但部分被設備銷售下降所抵銷。銷售、一般及行政（SG&A）費用較前一季減少 30 萬美元，較去年同期減少 320 萬美元。

The sequential decrease is due primarily to reductions in labor expenses, lower commissions and shipping expenses compared to the same prior year period. The decrease is due primarily to $1.5 million of lower acquisition expenses. We had $0.6 million of lower amortization expense as well as reductions in labor expenses and lower commissions and shipping expenses.

較前一季下降主要是因勞動成本降低；而相較去年同期，佣金與運輸費用也較低。下降主要是因併購相關費用減少 150 萬美元。我們亦有 60 萬美元的攤銷費用降低，並同時出現勞動成本下降以及佣金與運輸費用降低。

Research development and engineering expenses decreased $0.7 million sequentially and decreased $0.6 million compared to the same prior year period due primarily to the timing of purchases related to specific projects in our semiconductor segment. As you saw in our press release, during the second quarter of fiscal 2024, we sold our corporate headquarters building in Tempe, Arizona for a gain of $2.2 million.

研發與工程費用較前一季減少 70 萬美元，較去年同期減少 60 萬美元，主要由於半導體事業部門特定專案相關採購時點的影響。如各位在新聞稿中所見，在 2024 會計年度第二季，我們出售位於亞利桑那州坦佩（Tempe）的公司總部大樓，認列 220 萬美元的處分利益。

GAAP net income for the second quarter of fiscal 2024 was $1 million or $0.07 per share. This compares to GAAP net loss of $9.4 million or $0.66 per share for the preceding quarter and GAAP net income of $3.2 million or $0.23 per share for the second quarter of fiscal 2023. Non-gaap net loss, which includes an adjustment to remove the gain on our building sale for the second quarter of fiscal 2024 was $0.2 million or $0.01 per share.

2024 會計年度第二季的 GAAP 淨利為 100 萬美元，或每股 0.07 美元。相較之下，上一季 GAAP 淨損為 940 萬美元，或每股 0.66 美元；而 2023 會計年度第二季 GAAP 淨利為 320 萬美元，或每股 0.23 美元。非 GAAP 淨損（包含調整以剔除 2024 會計年度第二季大樓出售利益）為 20 萬美元，或每股 0.01 美元。

This compares to non-GAAP net loss of $0.6 million or $0.04 per share for the preceding quarter and non-GAAP net income of $2.7 million or $0.19 per share for the second quarter of fiscal 2023 as a result of our billet building sale, we generated net cash proceeds of $2.5 million. We used these proceeds to fund approximately $1.2 million of CapEx during the quarter, primarily for the ongoing build-out of the Fuse News, smaller print building, which we expect to generate approximately $800,000 of annualized savings.

相較之下，上一季非 GAAP 淨損為 60 萬美元，或每股 0.04 美元；2023 會計年度第二季非 GAAP 淨利為 270 萬美元，或每股 0.19 美元。由於我們的 billet 大樓出售，我們產生了 250 萬美元的淨現金收入。我們將該等款項用於本季約 120 萬美元的資本支出（CapEx），主要用於持續建置 Fuse News 較小的印刷大樓，我們預期可帶來約 80 萬美元的年化節省。

The remaining proceeds plus additional cash on hand were used to pay down our revolving line of credit, which was paid in full as of March 31, 2024 debt payments during the three months ended March 31, 2024 were $6.4 million. Our only remaining debt is our term loan with a balance of $4.2 million as of March 31, 2024. During the six months ended March 31, 2024, we generated $5.3 million in cash provided by operating activities, primarily due to improvements in working capital.

其餘款項加上額外的手頭現金，用於償還我們的循環信用額度；截至 2024 年 3 月 31 日已全數清償。於截至 2024 年 3 月 31 日止三個月內的債務償付為 640 萬美元。我們唯一剩餘的債務為定期貸款，截至 2024 年 3 月 31 日餘額為 420 萬美元。於截至 2024 年 3 月 31 日止六個月內，我們由營運活動提供的現金流入為 530 萬美元，主要由於營運資金改善。

Unrestricted cash and cash equivalents at March 31, 2024 were $13 million compared to $17 million at December 31, 2023, net cash as of March 31, 2024 was $8.8 million compared to $7 million as of December 31, 2023.

截至 2024 年 3 月 31 日，不受限制的現金及約當現金為 1,300 萬美元，相較 2023 年 12 月 31 日為 1,700 萬美元；截至 2024 年 3 月 31 日的淨現金為 880 萬美元，相較 2023 年 12 月 31 日為 700 萬美元。

Now turning to our outlook for the third fiscal quarter ending June 30, 2024, we expect revenues in the range of $22 million to $25 million, with adjusted EBITDA nominally positive, which includes some expenses and production downtime associated with a two facility move. Although the near-term outlook for revenue and earnings earnings remains challenging, we remain confident that the future prospects are strong for both our consumables and equipment serving advanced mobility and advanced packaging applications.

接著談到截至 2024 年 6 月 30 日止的 2024 會計年度第三季展望，我們預期營收介於 2,200 萬至 2,500 萬美元之間，調整後 EBITDA 名目上為正，其中包含與兩處設施搬遷相關的部分費用與停工時間。儘管短期營收與獲利展望仍具挑戰，我們仍有信心，無論是耗材或設備，在服務先進移動（advanced mobility）與先進封裝（advanced packaging）應用方面的長期前景依然強勁。

We took actions during the first and second quarters of fiscal 2024, which will reduce Immtech structural costs by approximately $6 million annually and better align product pricing with value steps at significantly improved results and enhance profitability through market cycles. Operating results can be significantly impacted positively or negatively by the timing of orders, system shipments, logistical challenges and the financial results of semiconductor manufacturers.

我們在 2024 會計年度第一季與第二季採取了行動，將使 Immtech 的結構性成本每年降低約 600 萬美元，並使產品定價更能與價值階梯對齊，以顯著改善成果，並在市場循環中提升獲利能力。營運結果可能會因訂單時點、系統出貨、物流挑戰以及半導體製造商的財務表現，而出現顯著的正面或負面影響。

Additionally, the semiconductor equipment industries can be cyclical and inherently impacted by changes in market demand. Actual results may differ materially in the weeks and months ahead. A portion of Amtech's results is denominated in RMB of Chinese currency. The outlook provided is based on an assumed exchange rate between the USD and the RMB. Changes in the value of the RMB in relation to the United States dollar could cause actual results to differ from expectations.

此外，半導體設備產業具有景氣循環性，且本質上會受到市場需求變化的影響。未來數週與數月的實際結果可能會有重大差異。Amtech 的部分業績以中國貨幣人民幣（RMB）計價。本次提供的展望係基於美元（USD）與人民幣（RMB）之間的假設匯率。人民幣相對美元的價值變動，可能導致實際結果與預期不同。

I will now turn the call over to the operator for questions. Operator?

接下來我把電話交給接線員進行提問。接線員？

(Operator Instructions)

（接線員指示）

Mark Miller, Benchmark.

Mark Miller，Benchmark。

Just wanted to ask about are you seeing can you comment about quoting activity? You've seen any have you seen any pickup in quoting activity? And if so, where are you at FTMRRI.?

我想問一下，你們是否看到、能否評論一下報價活動（quoting activity）？你們是否看到報價活動有任何回升？如果有的話，在 FTMRRI 方面你們目前的情況如何？

Yes, we'd definitely have seen a very significant uptick on back end processing. So basically the reef reflow equipment in particular. And I think one of the big changes versus when we provided the update last quarter is things things were soft. We were seeing some surface mount applications. We're now seeing a lot more in the advanced chip packaging area.

是的，我們確實看到後段製程出現非常顯著的回升。基本上特別是回焊（reflow）設備。我認為相較於我們上季提供更新時的一個重大變化是，當時整體偏弱。我們看到一些表面黏著（SMT）應用。現在我們在先進晶片封裝領域看到更多需求。

We're also seeing quoting activity, which involves multiple units where things had softened to the point where it was usually a single piece of equipment. And as I mentioned during the comments, one thing that's interesting is that of some of the quoting activity now is involving I would say the localization of manufacturing, we've had some North American quoting in particular, that seems tied to supply chain resiliency.

我們也看到涉及多台設備的報價活動；先前需求轉弱到通常只是一台設備。如我在評論中提到，有趣的一點是，目前部分報價活動牽涉到我所說的製造在地化；我們特別看到一些北美的報價，似乎與供應鏈韌性相關。

That's on the back end of the other areas where we've seen some strength have been, I'd say the parts and service side of the business as well. Leave it at the front end. We're now getting a much higher activity than we would have seen three months ago. So there's still it's still a mixed situation, Mark.

這是在後段；另外我們看到一些強勁的領域，我會說也包括業務的零件與服務端。至於前段方面。我們現在看到的活動度比三個月前高得多。所以整體而言仍然是個混合的情況，Mark。

But I think at least we're seeing definitely seeing more signs of life than we were three months ago.

但我認為至少我們確實看到比三個月前更多的復甦跡象。

The improvement in consumable sales, we can assume that it impacted margins positively. Can you can provide any estimate, consolidated margins?

耗材銷售的改善，我們可以假設它對毛利率有正面影響。你能否提供任何估計值，例如合併毛利率？

Well, it did. I mean, certainly you can see on your I guess on the non-GAAP gross margin line improved from about 43% to 45%. So it had a really nice impact on us. That's a great business for us, right. That's what we were hoping to. And that too, as we exited the polishing equipment on defense.

嗯，確實有。我的意思是，你當然可以看到，我想在非 GAAP 的毛利率那一行，從大約 43% 提升到 45%。所以它對我們帶來了非常好的影響。那對我們來說是一門很棒的業務，對吧。這正是我們所希望的。而且同時，我們也在退出國防用的拋光設備。

Hello, Peter and Art. Yes, I'm here and you just went out for a few seconds.

你好，Peter 和 Art。是的，我在這裡，你剛剛斷線了幾秒鐘。

Did you hear my answer or you want me to repeat it?

你有聽到我的回答嗎？還是你希望我再重複一次？

No, I know most of it. So thanks.

沒有，我大部分都聽到了。所以謝謝。

Okay. All right. Thank you, Mark.

好的。好。謝謝你，Mark。

Kevin Garrigan, WestPark Capital.

Kevin Garrigan，WestPark Capital。

Yes. Hey, team. Great speaking with you guys again, regarding softness across the broader in the broader market are you seeing any light at the end of the tunnel? And do you think the recovery would be a snapback in demand? Or is it kind of more of a U-shape.

是的。嗨，各位。很高興再次和你們交流。關於整體更廣泛市場的疲軟，你們是否看到隧道盡頭的一線曙光？你們認為復甦會是需求快速反彈嗎？還是比較像 U 型走勢？

Add interest. Interesting, Kevin, and that, you know, again, we read the same things you're reading about Asia, yes, memory memory, for example, bookings have been quite strong. Pricing has firmed up on the memory side of things, mostly related to AI. So I do think at least in applications related to AI, we're likely to see that industry come back a little bit stronger towards the end of the year, early next year.

很有意思。Kevin，你知道，我們也在看你所看到的那些關於亞洲的資訊；是的，以記憶體為例，接單一直相當強勁。記憶體端的價格也已趨於堅挺，主要與 AI 相關。所以我確實認為，至少在與 AI 相關的應用上，我們很可能會看到該產業在今年年底、明年年初回升得更強一些。

It's always a little bit complicated for us. It's kind of the case of consumables. It tends to be a little bit more real time. And that obviously as volumes pick up, we tend to see that flow through pretty quickly a little bit trickier with equipment because now you have to factor in utilization rates at the at the customer end, we typically need to trigger utilization rates, let's say, in the 80%-plus range before they start to increase equipment orders. So I think timing timing is a little bit trickier to have to predict in those instances.

對我們來說總是有點複雜。就耗材而言，它往往更偏即時。而且很明顯，當出貨量回升時，我們通常會很快看到反映出來；設備方面就比較棘手，因為你還得把客戶端的稼動率納入考量。我們通常需要稼動率觸發到，比如說 80% 以上，他們才會開始增加設備訂單。所以在那些情況下，時點的預測會更棘手一些。

Yes, no, that makes a ton of sense. Okay. Perfect. And then just as the quick follow-up, Lisa, I think you said in your prepared remarks that lead times are improving. Can you just remind us what your ideal lead times are and when you kind of see them getting back to normal.

是的，不，這非常合理。好的。完美。接著快速追問一下，Lisa，我想你在事先準備的講稿中提到交期正在改善。你能否提醒我們你們理想的交期是多久，以及你們大概何時會看到它回到正常水準？

Sure. I think it can vary by product on the back-end equipment that Bob was referencing on those lead times can be four to six weeks. Some of the equipment we talked about this quarter that negatively impacted our margins like the horizontal diffusion furnace. We have lead times of over a year on that equipment.

當然。我想這會因產品而異；Bob 剛剛提到的後段設備，那些交期可能是四到六週。我們本季談到的一些設備對毛利率造成負面影響，例如臥式擴散爐。那類設備的交期超過一年。

We've certainly brought that down from and on our heightened melt furnaces, I would say that's come down to a handful of months now.

我們確實已經把它降下來了；至於我們的高溫熔融爐（melt furnaces），我會說現在已降到幾個月的水準。

That I'd say even on horizontal diffusion furnaces with a supply chain lead times, probably a more normalized time frame would be a, let's say, four to six months, maybe closer. But yes, the I'd say five to six months, if the backlogs under at a reasonable level.

我會說，即使是臥式擴散爐，考量供應鏈交期，較正常化的時間框架大概會是，比如四到六個月，可能更接近那個區間。但對，是的，我會說五到六個月，如果在手訂單（backlog）處於合理水位的話。

But we're going to we're moving into a mode, frankly, with the things we've done from an operational standpoint, leveraging subcontractors, where our goal is really to drive our cycle times down to minimum based on supply chain, how long it takes to get in our components to manufacture with the idea that part of the part of the margin headwinds we had on some of this equipment pain, partly because, yes, we Q2 over a year ago. So we've got to get our cycles time cycle times down. So that make sure our pricing reflects current costs conditions more effectively.

但坦白說，隨著我們在營運面所做的事情、運用分包商，我們正要進入一種模式：我們的目標是真正把週期時間壓到由供應鏈所決定的最低值——也就是取得零組件並完成製造所需的時間。因為我們在某些設備上面臨的部分毛利逆風，部分原因是，沒錯，我們在一年多前的第二季就報價了。所以我們必須把週期時間降下來。這樣才能確保我們的定價更有效地反映當前的成本狀況。

Okay. Got you. And that makes a ton of sense.

好的。了解。這非常合理。

Okay, perfect. Thank you.

好的，完美。謝謝。

Thank you, Kevin.

謝謝你，Kevin。

Craig Irwin, ROTH MKM.

Craig Irwin，ROTH MKM。

And good afternoon and thanks for taking my questions. So I was hoping you could maybe comment a little bit about the silicon carbide market on the wafers that are being produced today. There's a tremendous amount of interest in eight inch wafers, but most of the production is really six inch today. Can you maybe tell us if there's an opportunity to offer a premium product on the hospice side serving the energy market, is there potentially another way to generate additional incremental value for Hofmann out of this business? And how do you see yourselves positioned given your impeccable positioning on six-inch on providing most of the cassettes that are used up there?

各位下午好，謝謝你們回答我的問題。我希望你們能談談目前正在生產的碳化矽晶圓市場。市場對 8 吋晶圓有非常高的興趣，但目前大多數產量其實仍是 6 吋。你們能否談談是否有機會在耗材端提供溢價產品、服務能源市場；是否可能還有其他方式，讓 Hofmann 從這項業務中創造額外的增量價值？另外，考量你們在 6 吋領域的絕佳布局、提供那邊使用的大多數晶舟（cassette），你們認為自身的定位如何？

Yes. So and then as you point out, most most of the market is at six-inch today. And again, I do I do think and it depends on it really does depend on the customer there's not one generic answer to that, Craig. But again, we're we're trying to position ourselves so that to the extent we can play in eight inch of that, we can where possible get some incremental value, but it will very much depend on who the customer is and what their core, what their base technology is in the in the CMP area.

是的。如你所指出，目前市場大多仍在 6 吋。而且我確實認為——這真的取決於客戶，Craig，沒有一個通用的答案。但我們正努力讓自己處於一個位置：在可行的情況下，若我們能參與 8 吋，就能在可能的地方取得一些增量價值；但這將非常取決於客戶是誰，以及他們在 CMP 領域的核心、也就是其基礎技術是什麼。

Okay. Excellent. And then on the on the on the furnace side, I understand that there's a Bruce has a very unique product for not just traditional power semiconductor production, but specifically for silicon carbide given the much higher temperatures, but the processes are running. And can you maybe can you maybe give us a little bit of color on that product, what the pipeline looks like it seems that, you know, even though there's a bit of an air pocket in the market with EVs and some of the industrials equipment in China that there's still a pretty pretty large amount of interest in facility construction. There's big plants, big facilities on the drawing board and any color that you could share with us there about your potential activity?

好的。很好。接著談到爐管（furnace）方面，我了解到 Bruce 有一款非常獨特的產品，不僅用於傳統功率半導體生產，尤其也適用於碳化矽，因為製程運行的溫度高得多。你能否多分享一些這個產品的背景、以及目前的案源（pipeline）看起來如何？似乎即便電動車市場以及中國部分工業設備領域出現一點空窗期，市場對於廠房建設仍然有相當大的興趣。有很多大型工廠、大型設施仍在規劃中；你能否就你們在那方面的潛在活動分享一些看法？

Yes. So so the the demand requirements that we received from from some key customers is fairly significant that there's there's some pretty large opportunities going forward as you point out timing timing may depend a bit on how much utilization there is in the industry. It's up with a little bit of the frankly, the drop off and more so expectations of EV may slow things down a little bit in the industry, but ultimately, at least the view the view I have is that the industry is going to migrate and continue to migrate pretty aggressively towards silicon carbide because of the efficiency of the of the inverters.

是的。我們從一些關鍵客戶那裡收到的需求要求相當可觀；如你所說，未來有一些相當大的機會。至於時點，可能會在某種程度上取決於產業的稼動率。坦白說，隨著電動車的下滑、以及更偏向對電動車的預期降溫，可能會讓產業短期放緩一些；但最終，至少以我的看法，產業將會轉向、並且持續相當積極地轉向碳化矽，因為逆變器的效率更高。

And so I think some of what's been going on in terms of a little bit of the slowdown and EV market may affect timing, but I don't think it changes the trajectory we're on. I think the wildcard is also because we do participate. We participate in the EV, but we also participate pretty significantly in the power electronics for hybrid electric vehicles. And in particular, I'd say the the direct fund copper furnaces that are used for silicon-based IGBTs are fairly sizable part of our business at PTU. with this pivot maybe and a greater emphasis on HEV in the near term that could present additional opportunities for us in the silicon base, power module, packaging.

因此，我認為目前在放緩以及電動車（EV）市場方面發生的一些情況，可能會影響時程，但我不認為這會改變我們所走的軌跡。我認為另一個不確定因素也在於我們確實有參與。我們參與EV，但我們也相當程度地參與混合動力電動車（HEV）的電力電子。尤其是，我會說，用於矽基 IGBT 的直熱式銅爐，是我們 PTU 業務中相當可觀的一部分。隨著這次轉向，以及短期內對 HEV 更加重視，這可能會在矽基功率模組封裝方面為我們帶來額外機會。

Understood. So you've been doing a really good job managing cash, right, getting to a net net cash position this quarter. Usually when there's an air pocket like we've seen sort of in the macro in silicon carbide. It's a good it's a good time to continue conversations around them, acquisitions and how active are you on the M&A side, you know, I know there are some very interesting properties out there both on the materials and consumable side that actually directly play into silicon carbide and traditional power semiconductor markets were how how likely are we to see you step up and maybe grab something or consolidate something? Is this a priority today?

了解。所以你們在現金管理方面做得非常好，對吧，本季達到淨現金部位。通常當出現像我們在碳化矽宏觀面所看到的那種短暫空窗期時，這是個很好的時機，繼續就併購（M&A）進行討論；你們在 M&A 方面有多積極？你知道，我知道市場上在材料端與耗材端都有一些非常有趣的標的，實際上可直接切入碳化矽與傳統功率半導體市場；那麼我們有多大可能看到你們加大動作，可能收購一些資產或進行整合？這是目前的優先事項嗎？

I'd say I'd say our near term priority was obviously around the goal of being cash flow. Positive is with the current market realities and a sluggish industry. But all ultimately, we're a growth company. Ultimately, we are, yes, seeing a tremendous opportunity in the power electronics area and in particular silicon carbide. So it's an area we are spending time. I can't I can't really say too much Craig about what the timing might be, but in terms of it being a strategic priority for us in terms of trying to bring more breadth, more exposure, more growth drivers in this area, it's definitely a priority for the Company.

我會說，我們短期的優先事項顯然是圍繞在達成現金流轉正的目標，因應目前的市場現實與產業的疲弱。但歸根結底，我們是一家成長型公司。最終，我們確實在電力電子領域，特別是碳化矽方面，看到了巨大的機會。所以這是我們正在投入時間的領域。Craig，我不能就時程多說什麼，但就策略優先性而言，為了在這個領域帶來更廣的產品範圍、更高的曝險度以及更多成長驅動因素，這絕對是公司的優先事項。

Okay. Excellent. Excellent. And then and then last question, if I may. You did exceed your revenue guidance in the quarter. It seems that your visibility is pretty good, at least in the short term. Can you maybe comment about anything that's changing materially for us the back end of the year is there is there, maybe a sentiment that investors might appreciate a little color around that that you could do. But can you give us to help us understand sort of where where this visibilities on reaches out to our ideas. Do you have do you have visibility through through December? And um, how how you how would we see that play out?

好的。很好。很好。那麼最後一個問題，如果可以的話。你們本季營收超過了指引。看起來你們的能見度相當不錯，至少在短期內。你能否評論一下，今年下半年是否有任何對我們而言出現重大變化？是否有一些投資人可能希望你能提供更多脈絡的情況？但你能否幫助我們理解，你們的能見度大概延伸到什麼程度？你們是否能看到一直到12月？以及，嗯，你們認為這會如何展開？

So I think again, we have to talk about the various segments. So if you look at in the furnace area, whether it's horizontal diffusion furnace or the ovens, we're pretty we're providing for things like direct buying copper applications, where again, that's a high percentage of our backlog is in that area and takes us out through the December quarter.

所以我想，再次，我們必須談到不同的業務區塊。如果你看爐體（furnace）領域，不論是水平擴散爐或烘箱，我們主要供應像是直熱式銅應用；同樣地，該領域占我們在手訂單（backlog）的高比例，並可支撐我們一路到12月季度。

If you look at the consumables part of business that tends to book and ship even within the same quarter, a relatively short lead times and will tend to get that up pretty quickly. So there's not the visibility is tends to be more of a medium long term forecasts we get from our customer base. And again, that's going to depend on ultimately market demand to drive that. And that's also true, frankly, the parts and service we've seen quite a bit of a pickup.

如果你看耗材業務，那通常在同一季度內就會接單並出貨，交期相對短，且通常很快就會拉升。因此，那邊的能見度更多是來自我們從客戶端取得的中長期預測。而且同樣地，最終仍取決於市場需求來驅動。坦白說，零件與服務也是如此，我們看到相當明顯的回升。

And in recent weeks and months in terms of activity there, it signs of life in the industry, but it's not like we have great visibility beyond, you know, a month or two in that area because those tend to be pretty short lead time items. And as Lisa mentioned earlier, even even on the back end, packaging equipment, reflow surface mount us as well as chip packaging. We're our lead times are four to six weeks. So there's not it's not really an incentive, frankly, for customers to book things out six, six, nine months ahead of time.

而在最近幾週與幾個月，該領域的活動量有所增加，顯示產業出現一些復甦跡象，但我們在那一塊並沒有超過一兩個月的良好能見度，因為那些通常是交期很短的項目。而如 Lisa 先前提到的，即使是在後段的封裝設備，例如回流焊表面黏著（SMT）以及晶片封裝，我們的交期是四到六週。所以坦白說，客戶並沒有太大誘因提前六個、六到九個月去下單。

They don't need to they can get equipment pretty quickly from us. So it's really a mixed bag. I'd say where we have the most visibility is really in this in the furnace area because of the long lead times historically.

他們不需要，因為他們可以很快從我們這裡取得設備。所以這其實是個混合情況。我會說，我們能見度最高的確是在爐體領域，因為歷史上交期較長。

Yes. And Craig, I would just add on the gross margin side on, we expect fairly similar product mix going into Q3. I think we'll see some of these headwinds that we saw with material costs. You'll kind of repeat again in Q3. We do expect incremental improvements in Q4 and in the fiscal Q1 as we're shipping out some of this older backlog and then beginning to ship out of the newer quotas and backlog. It has the higher margin quote quotes that we've been using.

是的。Craig，我另外補充一下毛利率方面，我們預期進入第三季（Q3）的產品組合會相當類似。我認為我們在材料成本上看到的一些逆風，在Q3會再次出現。我們確實預期在Q4以及會計年度Q1會有逐步改善，因為我們會把部分較舊的在手訂單出貨完，然後開始出貨較新的報價與在手訂單。那些是我們一直採用的、毛利率較高的報價。

But thank you for that lease up the rest of my questions offline. Congratulations on the revenue result. It's good to see you guys executing.

謝謝你，Lisa。我其餘的問題會在會後再問。恭喜營收表現。很高興看到你們的執行力。

Great. Thank you. Craig.

好的。謝謝。Craig。

You heard there are no further questions at this time. I would hand over the call to Bob Daigle, CEO for closing comments. Please proceed.

各位聽眾，目前沒有進一步的提問。我將把電話交給執行長 Bob Daigle 作結語。請開始。

Well, thank you again for joining our conference call, and I look forward to updating everybody on progress we're making in the months.

再次感謝各位參加我們的電話會議，我也期待在接下來幾個月向大家更新我們取得的進展。

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation, and you may now disconnect.

是的，各位女士先生，今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝各位的參與，現在可以掛線。