Ardmore Shipping Corp (ASC) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Ardmore Shipping's Third Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference Call. Today's call is being recorded, and an audio webcast and presentation are available in the Investor Relations section of the company's website, ardmoreshipping.com. (Operator Instructions) A replay of the conference call will be accessible anytime during the next 2 weeks by dialing 1 (877) 344-7529 or 1 (412) 317-0088, and entering passcode 8126419.

早安，女士們、先生們，歡迎參加阿德莫爾航運 2023 年第三季財報電話會議。今天的電話會議正在錄音，音訊網路廣播和簡報可在公司網站 ardmoreshipping.com 的投資者關係部分取得。 （操作員說明）在接下來的兩週內，您可以隨時撥打 1 (877) 344-7529 或 1 (412) 317-0088，並輸入密碼 8126419，重播電話會議。

At this time, I will turn the call over to Anthony Gurnee, Chief Executive Officer of Ardmore Shipping.

此時，我將把電話轉給阿德莫爾航運公司執行長安東尼古尼 (Anthony Gurnee)。

Good morning, and welcome to Ardmore Shipping's Third Quarter 2023 Earnings Call. First, let me ask our CFO, Bart Kelleher, to discuss forward-looking statements.

早上好，歡迎參加 Ardmore Shipping 的 2023 年第三季財報電話會議。首先，讓我請我們的財務長巴特·凱萊赫討論前瞻性陳述。

Thanks, Tony. Turning to Slide 2. Please allow me to remind you that our discussion today contains forward-looking statements. Actual results may differ materially from those projected in the forward-looking statements. Additional information concerning factors that could cause the actual results to differ materially from those in the forward-looking statements is contained in the third quarter 2023 earnings release, which is available on our website.

謝謝，托尼。轉向投影片 2。請容我提醒您，我們今天的討論包含前瞻性陳述。實際結果可能與前瞻性陳述中的預測有重大差異。有關可能導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述中的結果有重大差異的因素的更多資​​訊包含在 2023 年第三季財報中，該報告可在我們的網站上取得。

And now I will turn the call back over to Tony.

現在我將把電話轉回給托尼。

Thank you, Bart. Let me first outline the format for today's call. To begin with, I'll discuss highlights, current market conditions and capital allocation. After which, Bart will provide an update on tanker fundamentals and on our financial performance. And then I'll conclude and open up the call for questions.

謝謝你，巴特。首先讓我概述一下今天電話會議的形式。首先，我將討論要點、當前的市場狀況和資本配置。之後，巴特將提供有關油輪基本面和我們財務表現的最新資訊。然後我將結束並開始提問。

So turning first to Slide 4 for highlights. We're pleased to announce strong third quarter results with adjusted earnings of $20.3 million or $0.49 per share, reflecting robust product and chemical tanker markets, which are continuing to strengthen into the fourth quarter, as you can see in the chart on the upper right.

因此，首先請參閱幻燈片 4 以了解亮點。我們很高興地宣布強勁的第三季業績，調整後收益為2030 萬美元，即每股0.49 美元，反映了產品和化學品船市場的強勁，這些市場在第四季度繼續增強，如右上角的圖表所示。

Our MRs earned $28,500 per day for the third quarter and $30,100 per day so far in the fourth quarter, with 50% booked. And our chemical tankers on a capital adjusted basis earned $22,100 per day for the third quarter and $25,800 per day for the fourth quarter, with 60% booked so far.

我們的 MR 第三季每天收入為 28,500 美元，第四季到目前為止每天收入為 30,100 美元，預訂率達到 50%。我們的化學品油輪在資本調整的基礎上第三季度每天盈利 22,100 美元，第四季度每天盈利 25,800 美元，到目前為止已預訂 60%。

We believe we are now at a market inflection point with rates building into the winter period. In particular, we're seeing broad strength across all tanker sectors, including crude and chemicals, which is a very good sign.

我們相信，我們現在正處於市場轉折點，利率將進入冬季。特別是，我們看到包括原油和化學品在內的所有油輪產業都表現強勁，這是一個非常好的跡象。

Meanwhile, Ardmore continues to execute on its long-standing capital allocation policy. We have today declared a quarterly cash dividend of $0.16 per share, consistent with our policy of paying out 1/3 of adjusted earnings. And we continue to invest in energy savings devices in accordance with our Energy Transition Plan, thereby reducing carbon emissions, but also boosting cash flow.

同時，阿德莫爾繼續執行其長期的資本配置政策。我們今天宣布季度現金股利為每股 0.16 美元，這與我們支付調整後收益 1/3 的政策一致。我們繼續根據能源轉型計畫投資節能設備，從而減少碳排放，同時也增加現金流。

Overall, we continue to focus on optimizing our spot trading performance while managing costs and maintaining and even lowering breakeven level, which now stands at $14,000 per day. And as a final point, our entire fleet is exposed to the spot market, including our time charter in vessels, allowing Ardmore to fully capture the benefits of the strengthening market.

總體而言，我們繼續專注於優化現貨交易績效，同時管理成本並維持甚至降低盈虧平衡水平，目前為每天 14,000 美元。最後一點，我們的整個船隊都接觸到現貨市場，包括我們的定期租船，使阿德莫爾能夠充分利用市場走強的好處。

Moving to Slide 5. Our optimism is backed by some important near-term factors. The EU refined products embargo, which commenced in February of this year, is continuing to impact the market by creating additional tonne-mile demand. Also, as the winter market sets in, we expect to see, as always, weather delays, daylight transit restrictions and localized rate spikes driven, for example, by cold snaps, while constricting supply or boosting demand.

轉向幻燈片 5。我們的樂觀情緒得到了一些重要的近期因素的支持。今年 2 月開始的歐盟成品油禁運創造了額外的噸英里需求，從而繼續影響市場。此外，隨著冬季市場的到來，我們預計將一如既往地看到天氣延誤、日間交通限制和寒流等導致的局部費率飆升，同時限制供應或刺激需求。

And as you can see in the graph on the upper right, global refined product inventory levels remain very low, leaving little margin for error in the oil product supply chain.

正如您在右上角的圖表中看到的那樣，全球成品油庫存水準仍然非常低，石油產品供應鏈幾乎沒有犯錯的餘地。

Despite the significant levels of refinery maintenance in 2023 as compared to 2022, as shown in the chart on the lower right, product tanker demand has remained very strong. And as we expect to see fewer refineries offline going forward, we should anticipate further incremental demand. As well as this, reduced Panama Canal transits for the next few months are likely to increase traffic by up to 40%, thereby extending voyage times and keeping ships out of the market.

儘管如右下圖所示，與 2022 年相比，2023 年煉油廠維護量較大，但成品油輪需求仍然非常強勁。由於我們預計未來煉油廠將減少，因此我們應該預期需求將進一步增加。除此之外，未來幾個月巴拿馬運河過境量的減少可能會使交通量增加高達 40%，從而延長航行時間並將船舶排除在市場之外。

And the implementation of the EU Emissions Trading System, which starts January 1, in which Bart will expand on later, we think could lead to logistical inefficiencies in the market, further supporting TCE rates. And finally, it's also important to remember that low scheduled newbuilding deliveries should limit fleet growth for at least the next 2 years.

歐盟排放交易系統將於 1 月 1 日開始實施，巴特將在稍後擴展，我們認為這可能會導致市場物流效率低下，進一步支持 TCE 利率。最後，同樣重要的是要記住，新造船交付量較低將至少在未來兩年內限制船隊成長。

Moving to Slide 6, we will discuss the EU refined products embargo in more detail. As highlighted in the chart on the upper right, EU diesel demand has remained consistent, while diesel imports have declined over the past several months. As a consequence, we've seen a substantial draw on inventory since the implementation of the embargo as highlighted in the chart on the lower left.

前往投影片 6，我們將更詳細地討論歐盟成品油禁運。如右上圖所示，歐盟柴油需求保持穩定，而過去幾個月柴油進口量有所下降。因此，自禁運實施以來，我們看到庫存大幅減少，如左下圖所示。

As inventory levels normalize, we believe that imports to this region are poised to increase significantly. These additional volumes are likely to be sourced from far away, resulting in increased tonne-miles, thus further supporting the overall market.

隨著庫存水準正常化，我們相信該地區的進口量將大幅增加。這些額外的產量可能來自遙遠的地方，導致噸英里數增加，從而進一步支撐整個市場。

And then turning now to Slide 7 on capital allocation. We remain fully good to our long-standing policy, which has a big influence on how we approach decision-making.

現在轉向關於資本配置的幻燈片 7。我們仍然完全遵守我們的長期政策，這對我們的決策方式有很大影響。

As a result of our strong financial position and low breakeven levels, we're now able to pursue all of our priorities simultaneously, namely: maintaining our fleet over time by investing in our ships to optimize performance, thus boosting earnings and cash flow; sustaining low leverage through the market cycle, which, of course, improves the quality of earnings and provides the company with the financial strength needed for well-timed growth; evaluating growth opportunities while maintaining a patient and disciplined approach; and returning capital to shareholders, where at present we're paying out 1/3 of adjusted earnings.

由於我們強大的財務狀況和較低的盈虧平衡水平，我們現在能夠同時追求所有優先事項，即：透過投資船舶以優化性能，長期維護我們的船隊，從而提高收益和現金流；在整個市場週期中保持低槓桿率，這當然可以提高盈利質量，並為公司提供適時增長所需的財務實力；評估成長機會，同時保持耐心和紀律性的方法；向股東返還資本，目前我們支付調整後收益的 1/3。

And as an aside, with the current market outlook and our significant operating leverage, we see the potential for much higher earnings, and thus, dividends in the coming quarters. The essence of our policy is an acknowledgment that this is a cyclical business, where financial strength can pay off hugely if it permits well-timed investment. But we must balance that with returning capital to shareholders, consisting of a portion of earnings in a manner that's conventional across industries. While we don't rule out special dividends or share repurchases, at the moment, neither are part of our near-term plan.

順便說一句，鑑於當前的市場前景和我們巨大的營運槓桿，我們看到了未來幾季獲利更高的潛力，從而獲得股息。我們政策的本質是承認這是一個週期性產業，如果允許適時投資，財務實力可以帶來巨大回報。但我們必須平衡這一點與向股東返還資本，其中包括以跨行業傳統方式的部分收益。雖然我們不排除特別股利或股票回購，但目前這兩者都不屬於我們的近期計劃。

And with that, I'm happy to hand the call back over to Bart.

至此，我很高興將電話轉回給巴特。

Thanks, Tony. Building upon Tony's comments on market conditions, we'll further examine the industry fundamentals. Overall, the supply-demand dynamics remain highly favorable. On Slide 9, we discuss the significant supply-demand gap. The multiyear supply-demand gap remains wide, which shipyard berth availability continuing to be limited to 2026 and beyond.

謝謝，托尼。根據托尼對市場狀況的評論，我們將進一步研究行業基本面。總體而言，供需動態仍然非常有利。在投影片 9 中，我們討論了巨大的供需缺口。多年來的供需缺口仍然很大，造船廠泊位的可用性在 2026 年及以後仍然受到限制。

The strong tonne-mile growth, which is highlighted in the green bars in the chart, is driven by positive underlying fundamentals and, in 2024, is enhanced by the full year impact of the EU embargo, which Tony has discussed in detail.

圖表中綠色條突出顯示的強勁噸英里增長是由積極的基本面推動的，並且到 2024 年，歐盟禁運的全年影響將進一步增強，托尼對此進行了詳細討論。

Despite low scrapping levels, the charter market has remained strong, with the aging fleet representing further scrapping potential, creating additional market support through the cycle. So overall, we believe the limited net fleet growth across the product and chemical tanker sectors, combined with increasing tonne-miles, supports current market strength.

儘管報廢水平較低，但包機市場仍然強勁，老化的機隊代表著進一步的報廢潛力，從而在整個週期內創造了額外的市場支持。因此，總體而言，我們認為成品油輪和化學品油輪領域有限的船隊淨增長，加上噸英里數的增加，支撐了當前的市場實力。

Moving to Slide 10, where we highlight how the low MR product tanker order book contrast sharply with the rapidly aging fleet. As just discussed, supply fundamentals remain highly supportive. Although we have seen some moderate ordering of product tankers, this represents only a fraction of the natural replacement cycle of the aging fleet, with only 18 million deadweight tons on order versus nearly 70 million deadweight tons within the scrapping age profile in the next 5 years.

轉向幻燈片 10，我們強調低 MR 成品油輪訂單簿與快速老化的船隊形成鮮明對比。正如剛才所討論的，供應基本面仍然具有高度支撐性。儘管我們已經看到了一些成品油輪的適度訂購，但這僅代表老化船隊自然更換週期的一小部分，訂單量僅為1,800 萬載重噸，而未來5 年內報廢船齡範圍內的近7,000 萬載重噸。

And specifically for MRs, the gap is even more pronounced. The current MR order book stands at a low 6.5% of the existing fleet compared with the overall product tanker order book at 10%. As we mentioned on our last earnings call, it's important to point out that the Aframax crude tankers' net fleet growth is forecast at near 0 levels.

特別是對於 MR 來說，差距更加明顯。目前 MR 訂單量僅佔現有船隊的 6.5%，而整體成品油輪訂單量為 10%。正如我們在上次財報電話會議上提到的，需要指出的是，阿芙拉型原油油輪的船隊淨增長預計接近零。

This implies that an increased proportion of LR2s, most likely older vessels, will naturally transition to trading crude to cover the shortfall in Aframax tankers. And this is a trend, in addition to the transition we have seen this year, of more LR2s shifting from clean to dirty trade.

這意味著越來越多的 LR2 型油輪（很可能是舊船）將自然過渡到原油貿易，以彌補阿芙拉型油輪的短缺。除了我們今年看到的轉變之外，這是一種趨勢，即更多的 LR2 從清潔貿易轉向骯髒貿易。

On Slide 11, we depict the strong underlying demand growth in the product and chemical tanker markets. As discussed, the Russia-Ukraine conflict has heightened concerns around energy security and led to a persistent reordering of global product trades. Meanwhile, the long-term trend of refinery dislocation between East and West, supported by increasing consumption forecast, will continue to drive incremental tonne-mile demand.

在幻燈片 11 中，我們描繪了產品和化學品船市場強勁的潛在需求成長。正如所討論的，俄羅斯和烏克蘭衝突加劇了人們對能源安全的擔憂，並導致全球產品貿易持續重新排序。同時，在消費預測增加的支持下，東西方煉油廠錯位的長期趨勢將繼續推動噸英里需求的增量。

While acknowledging that there are macroeconomic pressures as a result of the high interest rate environment and uncertainties in the Chinese economy, we believe they are currently outweighed by the positive factors in the tanker markets.

我們承認高利率環境和中國經濟的不確定性對宏觀經濟帶來壓力，但我們認為目前油輪市場的正面因素抵消了這些壓力。

Moving to Slide 13. Ardmore continues to build upon its financial strength. As a reminder, the chart on the bottom left notes that we have reduced our cash breakeven levels by $2,500 per day in a rising interest rate environment as a result of our effective cost control, lower debt levels and access to revolving facilities, with the potential to further reduce breakeven levels in 2024.

轉向幻燈片 13。Ardmore 繼續增強其財務實力。提醒一下，左下角的圖表指出，由於我們有效的成本控制、較低的債務水平和獲得循環貸款的機會，在利率上升的環境下，我們每天的現金盈虧平衡水平降低了 2,500 美元，到2024年進一步降低損益平衡水平。

In addition, we have a strong liquidity position with $50 million of cash on hand and $220 million of undrawn revolving facilities at the end of the quarter. As always, Ardmore is focused on optimizing performance, closely managing costs in this inflationary environment and preserving a strong balance sheet.

此外，我們擁有強大的流動性頭寸，截至本季末手頭現金為 5,000 萬美元，未提取的循環貸款為 2.2 億美元。像往常一樣，Ardmore 專注於優化業績、在通膨環境下密切管理成本並保持強勁的資產負債表。

Turning to Slide 14 for financial highlights. As noted, we are very pleased with our performance during the summer season as we report results of $0.49 per share for the third quarter. We are correspondingly reporting strong EBITDAR for the quarter and continue to frame EBITDAR as an important comparable valuation metric against our IFRS reporting peers. There's a full reconciliation of this presented in the appendix on Slide 25.

請參閱投影片 14 以了解財務要點。如前所述，我們對夏季的表現非常滿意，因為我們報告第三季的業績為每股 0.49 美元。我們相應地報告了本季強勁的 EBITDAR，並繼續將 EBITDAR 作為與 IFRS 報告同業相比的重要可比較估值指標。在第 25 張投影片的附錄中對此進行了完整的協調。

Our significant revolving capacity has allowed us to manage our debt levels intra-quarter and minimize our interest expense, even in this elevated rate environment. Please refer to Slide 26 in the appendix for our fourth quarter 2023 guidance numbers.

即使在這種高利率環境下，我們強大的循環能力使我們能夠管理季度內的債務水準並最大限度地減少利息支出。請參閱附錄中的投影片 26，以了解我們的 2023 年第四季指導數字。

Moving to Slide 15. As Tony mentioned earlier, in accordance with our Energy Transition Plan, we're making some exciting investments in our fleet to further optimize operating performance and improve earnings. We are now on schedule to complete an updated 7 dry-dockings this year, and this reduces to 5 dry-dockings in 2024, 4 of which are in the first quarter, setting the stage for having our fleet refreshed and upgraded and producing full earnings.

轉到幻燈片 15。正如托尼之前提到的，根據我們的能源轉型計劃，我們正在對我們的機隊進行一些令人興奮的投資，以進一步優化營運績效並提高收益。我們現在按計劃在今年完成更新的 7 個乾塢，到 2024 年將減少到 5 個乾塢，其中 4 個在第一季度，為我們的船隊更新和升級並產生全額收益奠定了基礎。

As discussed and within the bounds of the scheduled dry-docking periods, we're installing new generation scrubbers and other efficiency-enhancing technologies which have high return profiles. Meanwhile, we have successfully completed the technical management transfer of 8 vessels fully consolidating our fleet with our joint venture partner, Anglo Ardmore. Also noteworthy, we had very strong on-hire availability for the third quarter as a result of the continued close coordination of our teams at sea and onshore.

如所討論的，在預定的乾塢期間，我們正在安裝新一代洗滌器和其他具有高回報的效率增強技術。同時，我們也成功完成了8艘船舶的技術管理移交，與合資夥伴Anglo Ardmore全面整合了我們的船隊。另外值得注意的是，由於我們海上和陸上團隊的持續密切協調，我們第三季的租用可用性非常強。

Finally, we are prepared for the implementation of the EU Emissions Trading System, or ETS. While certainly a lot of planning has gone into this by our chartering and operations teams, in essence, from a financial perspective, this results in a pass-through voyage expense.

最後，我們準備實施歐盟排放交易體系（ETS）。雖然我們的租船和營運團隊確實對此進行了大量規劃，但本質上，從財務角度來看，這會導致轉嫁航程費用。

Moving to Slide 16. Here, we are highlighting our significant operating leverage. As you can see in the chart, for every $10,000 per day increase in TCE rates, earnings per share is expected to increase by approximately $2.30 annually, with free cash flow increasing by nearly $100 million over the same time period.

轉向幻燈片 16。在這裡，我們強調我們重要的營運槓桿。正如您在圖表中看到的，TCE 費率每天每增加 10,000 美元，每股收益預計每年增加約 2.30 美元，同期自由現金流增加近 1 億美元。

Given the range of TCE rates shown on the slide, it is important to remember that in this elevated, highly volatile market, dramatic shifts are possible. And just as we experienced last winter, there is the potential for the market rates to strengthen significantly in a short period of time to level towards the upper end of this scale and even beyond. We certainly like Ardmore's positioning heading into this winter market.

鑑於幻燈片中顯示的 TCE 利率範圍，重要的是要記住，在這個高度波動的市場中，可能會發生巨大的變化。正如我們去年冬天所經歷的那樣，市場利率有可能在短時間內大幅走強，達到這一水平的上限，甚至更高。我們當然喜歡阿德莫爾進入這個冬季市場的定位。

With that, I'm happy to hand the call back to Tony and look forward to answering questions at the end.

至此，我很高興將電話轉給托尼，並期待最後回答問題。

Thank you, Bart. So to summarize, first, regarding the market. TCE rates continued at elevated levels through the third quarter during the normally weaker summer and then strengthening into the winter season.

謝謝你，巴特。總結一下，首先，關於市場。在通常較弱的夏季期間，TCE 費率在第三季度繼續保持在較高水平，然後在冬季走強。

Meanwhile, there are a number of near-term drivers, including, among other things, very low refined product inventory levels in Europe expecting to drive long-haul imports into the region and further contribute to overall demand. And the wide gap between tanker supply and demand should continue to underpin the market for at least the next couple of years.

同時，還有許多近期驅動因素，其中包括歐洲煉油產品庫存水準極低，預計將推動該地區的長途進口，並進一步促進整體需求。至少在未來幾年，油輪供需之間的巨大差距將繼續支撐市場。

And regarding the company, we're continuing to achieve strong TCE performance while managing costs in an inflationary environment. We're investing in our fleet to further improve operating performance and reduce carbon emissions. And our strong balance sheet and low breakeven level serves to enhance the quality of Ardmore's earnings, while also allowing us to pursue all of our capital allocation priorities simultaneously.

就公司而言，我們將繼續實現強勁的 TCE 業績，同時在通膨環境中管理成本。我們正在投資我們的機隊，以進一步提高營運績效並減少碳排放。我們強大的資產負債表和較低的損益平衡水準有助於提高阿德莫爾的獲利質量，同時也使我們能夠同時追求所有資本配置優先事項。

And with that, we're pleased to open up the call for questions.

至此，我們很高興開始提問。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from Omar Nokta with Jefferies.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自 Jefferies 的 Omar Nokta。

Tony, I was actually going to ask about the dividends, but you preempted my question in your opening remarks, I think, when you mentioned buybacks and specials in the near term aren't on the horizon. Just I guess in general, when you think about Ardmore and growth potential from here, I know we've talked about this in several quarters in the past.

東尼，我實際上想問有關股息的問題，但我認為，當您提到近期不會出現回購和特價時，您在開場白中搶先了我的問題。我想總的來說，當你想到阿德莫爾和這裡的成長潛力時，我知道我們過去幾季已經討論過這個問題。

You've done some low-hanging fruit here recently, and you're working on that further with the scrubber installations and efficiency upgrades on your existing fleet. But when you think just generally about growth for here and expansion for Ardmore, any updated thoughts or views on how that looks for the company?

您最近在這裡完成了一些容易實現的目標，並且您正在透過安裝洗滌器和現有機隊的效率升級來進一步實現這一目標。但是，當您總體考慮這裡的成長和阿德莫爾的擴張時，對於公司的發展有何最新的想法或看法？

Sure. Omar. Yes, good question. Again, just to reiterate, we're paying out 1/3 of our earnings as a dividend. At the moment, as of -- for the quarter we just reported, about half went into CapEx. And so the amount that we're using to continue to delever is quite a bit less than, for example, last year. So just -- and then the question is, okay, what are we exactly investing in?

當然。奧馬爾。是的，好問題。再次重申，我們將支付 1/3 的收益作為股息。目前，截至我們剛剛報告的季度，大約一半投入了資本支出。因此，我們用來繼續去槓桿化的金額比去年少得多。那麼問題是，我們到底在投資什麼？

I think the most important point is that the incremental returns are really excellent. So we would estimate that the upgrades that we're making to the ships as investments themselves are going to provide about a 30% to 35% yield. It's also going to result in our fleet, once we get through this program which will be kind of into the second quarter of next year, will be an upgraded fleet generating a lot more cash flow, we think, also the ships that will be back from dockings, off hire, et cetera.

我覺得最重要的一點是增量回報真的非常好。因此，我們估計，我們對船舶進行的升級作為投資本身將提供約 30% 至 35% 的收益率。這也將導致我們的船隊，一旦我們完成這個計劃，將進入明年第二季度，我們認為，這將是一支升級的船隊，產生更多的現金流，我們認為，還有那些將回來的船隻從碼頭、停租等等。

So I guess the question is where do we go from there? We'll remain focused on the sectors we're in. We're going to remain focused on fuel efficiency and carbon reduction. We're looking to engage in well-timed growth. So we'll just have to see what the market offers in that time frame. And we're always pleased to pay out more capital if it makes sense at the time. But at the moment, we discussed in detail where we're allocating the capital, and we think that's the best for long-term value.

所以我想問題是我們該何去何從？我們將繼續專注於我們所在的領域。我們將繼續專注於燃油效率和減碳。我們希望實現適時的成長。因此，我們只需看看市場在該時間範圍內提供什麼。如果當時有意義的話，我們總是樂意支付更多資本。但目前，我們詳細討論瞭如何配置資本，我們認為這對於長期價值來說是最好的。

That's helpful. And I guess, generally speaking, when you think about the growth opportunities, newbuildings, do they make sense in this context? Or is more of your focus on, say, targeted secondhand transaction?

這很有幫助。我想，一般來說，當你考慮成長機會、新造船時，它們在這種背景下有意義嗎？還是您更關注的是有針對性的二手交易？

I don't think we would take anything off the table because, obviously, when you talk about chemicals as well as MRs, you're talking about a pretty broad range of ship types and yards and secondhand sellers, et cetera. So we're -- hopefully, we've demonstrated over the many years now that we're pretty focused on value and pretty disciplined.

我認為我們不會放棄任何東西，因為顯然，當你談論化學品和 MR 時，你談論的是相當廣泛的船舶類型、船廠和二手賣家等等。因此，我們希望多年來我們已經證明，我們非常注重價值並且非常自律。

Just one final one. Just kind of operationally, I noticed the -- your Eco-Mods outperformed quite a bit at 36,000 in the third quarter versus the standard -- or I guess, not the standard, the Eco-Designs themselves are in 26,000. It's to a pretty big spread, 10,000 there. Any color you can give there on why such a deviation?

只剩最後一張了只是在操作上，我注意到 - 你們的 Eco-Mods 在第三季度的表現比標準要好很多，為 36,000 - 或者我猜，不是標準，Eco-Designs 本身是 26,000。這是一個相當大的價差，有10,000。您可以用任何顏色來說明為什麼會出現這種偏差嗎？

No. It's really just a small sample set on the Eco-Mod side. So we just -- we had a particularly -- it could easily have been Eco-Design ships in those positions for fixing.

不，這實際上只是 Eco-Mod 方面的一個小樣本集。所以我們只是——我們有一個特別的——它很容易被生態設計船放在這些位置進行修復。

(Operator Instructions) Our next question comes from Ben Nolan with Stifel.

（操作員說明）我們的下一個問題來自 Stifel 的 Ben Nolan。

So I -- maybe following on to a few of Omar's questions. When -- with respect to some of the modifications and things that you're making to the vessels, and Tony, you talked about the rate of return that you expect to get on those. I'm just curious how -- once all of those are done from an efficiency standpoint, how does -- how would one of your modified ships stack up to, say, a newbuilding from efficiency? And then along those lines, how do you think about sort of the useful life of those assets within your fleet as a more efficient asset?

所以我可能會繼續回答奧馬爾的一些問題。當——關於你對船隻所做的一些修改和事情時，托尼，你談到了你期望從這些船隻上獲得的回報率。我只是好奇，一旦從效率的角度來看，所有這些都完成了，你的一艘改裝船如何從效率疊加到新造船？然後，沿著這些思路，您如何看待車隊中這些資產作為更有效率資產的使用壽命？

Yes. So look, I think the very newest designs coming out of yards are -- they're very, very fuel efficient. So that's something that's -- those levels are probably unattainable on any secondhand ships, certainly kind of 5 years and older. What we're doing is really building our TCE performance. And I think we've been doing that for a while, if you look at our performance over the last kind of year, 2 years versus the peer group. And a component of that comes from the upgrades.

是的。所以看，我認為來自船廠的最新設計是——它們非常非常省油。所以，這些等級對於任何二手船（尤其是 5 年及以上的二手船）來說可能是無法達到的。我們正在做的是真正建立我們的 TCE 性能。我認為我們這樣做已經有一段時間了，如果你看看我們過去一年、兩年與同行相比的表現。其中一部分來自升級。

So we're now -- many others have done this before, but we're now installing scrubbers, new generation scrubbers that are cheaper and more efficient, and we think are -- have some environmental features, which we really like. And of course, those should bump up -- those ships that are equipped, they'll be bumping up their earnings by $2,000 to $3,000 a day given where spreads are right now.

所以我們現在——許多其他人之前已經這樣做了，但我們現在正在安裝洗滌器，新一代洗滌器更便宜、更高效，我們認為——具有一些我們真正喜歡的環保功能。當然，這些應該會增加——考慮到目前的價差，那些裝備齊全的船舶每天的收入將增加 2,000 至 3,000 美元。

Right. And I mean, once they're fully kitted and everything else, do they -- would they potentially make sense for you to guys to have them in your fleet for another 10 years? Or how are -- like a protracted period of maybe...

正確的。我的意思是，一旦它們配備齊全並完成其他所有工作，對於你們來說，讓它們在你們的機隊中再服役 10 年是否有意義？或者如何──就像一段漫長的時期…

Yes. Sorry, I forgot -- apologies for not answering that question as well. Yes, it's a good question and one where we're going to wait and see. Our policy at this point has been to operate them until around 15 years of age. The difference is these are ships that we actually built. And we've been running them for a long time, obviously, and I think we have a higher degree of confidence in their condition and they'll be very, very fuel efficient for what they are. So it's very likely that we'll operate them beyond 15 at this stage. And then Bart on some the...

是的。抱歉，我忘記了——很抱歉沒有回答這個問題。是的，這是一個很好的問題，我們將拭​​目以待。我們目前的政策是讓他們手術到 15 歲左右。不同之處在於這些是我們實際建造的船隻。顯然，我們已經運行它們很長時間了，我認為我們對它們的狀況有更高的信心，而且它們將非常非常省油。因此，現階段我們營運的數量很可能會超過 15 個。然後巴特就一些......

Maybe Ben, just to add to like these different CapEx upgrades, the -- I mean, the payback periods on them are 1, 2 years and change. So as we're thinking about it, obviously, lots of flexibility thereafter, but we're getting paid back very rapidly.

也許 Ben，只是為了補充這些不同的資本支出升級，我的意思是，它們的投資回收期是 1 年、2 年，並且會改變。因此，正如我們正在考慮的那樣，顯然，此後會有很大的靈活性，但我們很快就會得到回報。

And to add to that, I think the point being that we're -- there are things that we would consider on newbuildings today that we just can't do on ships that are 8 years old.

除此之外，我認為重點是，我們今天在新造船上會考慮一些事情，而在已有 8 年船齡的船舶上我們無法做到這一點。

Sure. Well, and that connects to the second question I was going to ask. I mean newbuilding prices are pretty elevated, and I know that you're not -- you mentioned you're not taking anything off the table. Obviously, you have the financial flexibility to do a lot of things right now.

當然。嗯，這與我要問的第二個問題有關。我的意思是，新造船的價格相當高，我知道你並沒有——你提到你不會放棄任何東西。顯然，您現在有足夠的財務靈活性可以做很多事情。

I guess my question is, given inflation and where the order book stands and everything else, do you think about the risk profile a little bit differently? Or maybe what the appropriate mid-cycle asset value is, is it meaningfully higher going forward? Or something else, such that maybe buying a ship or ordering a ship at current levels, it might have been untenable a few years ago, and today, you just don't think that is the same level of downside risk?

我想我的問題是，考慮到通貨膨脹、訂單簿的情況以及其他一切，您對風險狀況的看法是否有所不同？或者也許合適的中期資產價值是多少，未來它是否會有意義地更高？或者其他什麼，例如以目前的水平購買一艘船或訂購一艘船，幾年前可能是站不住腳的，而今天，你只是不認為這是同樣水平的下行風險？

I think you're hitting on a really important point, which is that there is a long-term inflation trend, if you look back 20 years and you can kind of project to where we are today or assess on that basis. And it's clear that new building prices have overshot that line. But we're not going back -- unless there's a big, big change in the structure of the shipbuilding industry, we're not going back to the pricing levels that we saw 10, 15 years ago.

我認為你說到了一個非常重要的觀點，那就是，如果你回顧 20 年，你可以預測我們今天的處境或在此基礎上進行評估，那就是存在長期的通膨趨勢。很明顯，新建築的價格已經超過這條線了。但我們不會回到過去——除非造船業的結構發生巨大的變化，否則我們不會回到 10、15 年前的定價水準。

So it's an interesting thing to think about. But -- so I think, certainly, we're realistic about what represents a fair price today or kind of a reasonable mid-cycle type price today for newbuilding, and it's very different from kind of 12, 13 years ago when we were building our ships.

所以這是一件值得思考的有趣的事。但是——所以我認為，當然，我們對今天新造船的合理價格或合理的中期價格持現實態度，這與 12、13 年前我們建造時的情況有很大不同我們的船。

Right. Okay. So we'll see.

正確的。好的。所以我們拭目以待。

But at the moment -- in the moment, certainly in key shipbuilding regions, the current prices have overshot.

但目前，尤其是在主要造船地區，目前的價格已經過高。

Right. All right. And then the last one, just going back to the embargo slide that you talked about. I'm curious -- I understand that a rising tide is going to lift to all boats. But it seems like a lot of those trades, whether it's from the Middle East or maybe even from the Gulf Coast to Europe, would lend themselves a little bit more easily to LRs versus MRs. Is it -- am I off on that? Or how do you think about sort of your positioning on that restocking of European diesel?

正確的。好的。然後是最後一張，回到您談到的禁運幻燈片。我很好奇——我知道上漲的潮水將會淹沒所有的船隻。但似乎許多這類貿易，無論是從中東還是從墨西哥灣沿岸到歐洲，都更容易選擇 LR 而非 MR。是嗎——我不喜歡這個嗎？或者您如何看待歐洲柴油補充庫存的定位？

No. I mean it's -- look, I think depending on where the cargo -- the stock is coming from, it -- I think there's this misnomer or this misconception that LRs do all the long-haul trade. That's not even what LR stands for, but that's another matter. So -- but the fact is that MRs do very long haulages and a lot of the liftings, for example, out of the U.S. Gulf, most of that is MR. If you're coming in from the Far East or from the Middle East with an LR2, for example, there are only a very small number of ports you can get into. So then you're talking about lightering, the cost structure changes. So I think they'll benefit equally.

不，我的意思是——看，我認為這取決於貨物——庫存來自哪裡，——我認為存在這樣的用詞不當或誤解，認為遠程運輸公司負責所有長途貿易。這甚至不是 LR 所代表的意思，但那是另一回事了。所以，但事實是，MR 負責很長的運輸和大量的起重工作，例如，從美國海灣出發，其中大部分都是 MR。例如，如果您乘坐 LR2 從遠東或中東入境，則只能進入極少數的港口。那你談論的是輕量化，成本結構的改變。所以我認為他們會平等地受益。

This concludes our question-and-answer session. The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

我們的問答環節到此結束。會議現已結束。感謝您參加今天的演講。您現在可以斷開連線。