Associated Banc-Corp (ASB) 2017 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to the Associated Banc-Corp's Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2017 Earnings Conference Call. My name is Omar, and I'll be your operator today. (Operator Instructions) Copies of the slides that will be referenced during today's call are available on the company's website at investor.associatedbank.com. As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded.

As outlined on Slide 2, during the course of discussion today, management may make statements that constitute projections, expectations, beliefs or similar forward-looking statements. Associated's actual results could differ materially from the results anticipated or projected in any such forward-looking statements. Additional detailed information concerning the important factors that can cause Associated's actual results to differ materially from the information discussed today is readily available on the SEC website and the Risk Factors section of Associated's most recent Form 10-K and any subsequent SEC filings. These factors are incorporated herein by reference.

For a reconciliation of the non-GAAP financial measures to the GAAP financial measures mentioned in this conference call, please refer to the slide presentation and to Page 10 of the press release financial tables. Following today's presentation, instructions will be given for the question-and-answer session.

At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Philip Flynn, President and CEO, for opening remarks. Please go ahead, sir.

Thank you, and welcome to our fourth quarter and full year 2017 earnings call. Joining me today are Chris Niles, our Chief Financial Officer; and John Hankerd, our Chief Credit Officer.

On Slide 3, we have 2017 highlights. It's been a watershed year for regulatory and tax reform. We are pleased to receive regulatory approval for the Bank Mutual transaction this week, and we're optimistic about the benefit of tax reform to our customers, our shareholders and our colleagues. Excluding the expenses related to the Tax Act, we reported earnings of $1.52 per common share. 2017 benefited from higher net interest income, improved efficiency, well-managed expenses and higher returns on capital.

Our progress against our 2017 priorities is on this slide. Average loans were up 5% from 2016 with growth driven by the company's on-balance sheet mortgage retention strategy. We continue to grow our fee-based revenue year-over-year driven by brokerage and asset management activity and boosted by the acquisition of Whitnell. Total noninterest income decreased as expected on lower mortgage banking income. We kept expense growth to under 1%, and we're able to improve our efficiency ratio by nearly 100 basis points from the prior year. We've now improved our efficiency ratio for 6 consecutive years. Lastly, the credit environment remains strong, contributing to our solid growth in year-over-year earnings and dividends.

On Slide 4, at the end of the year, the Tax Act was signed, resulting in a number of immediate 2017 impacts and an improved tax outlook. For 2017, the company recorded $15 million of Tax Act-related expenses, primarily driven by a partial write-down of the company's deferred tax assets. These expenses reduced reported GAAP earnings per share by $0.10 for the fourth quarter and full year. Looking forward, we believe the Tax Act lays the foundation for a lower effective tax rate. Our historical effective tax rate was approximately 30%. Our outlook assumes a lower statutory tax rate of 21%, smaller net benefits from tax-exempt securities, BOLI and tax credit investments and the expectation of a number of new disallowances, particularly FDIC insurance, which will result in our corporate effective tax rate to be between 20% and 22%.

There are still a number of open implementation and accounting matters that will require clarification, as such, we may refine our estimates in future periods.

2017 loan details are highlighted on Slide 5. Average loans grew by 5% or $942 million from the prior year. This year, the company's growth was driven by our on-balance sheet mortgage retention strategy. Residential mortgages represented approximately 35% of our average total loan book at year-end, and over 70% of our on-balance sheet mortgage are ARMs, which generally reprice within 3 to 7 years. We remain the largest mortgage lender in Wisconsin.

Commercial real estate lending increased 5% from the prior year, driven by growth in our construction-related portfolios. Following the announced acquisition of Bank Mutual, the company began to moderate its commercial real estate loan growth as we expect to add over $1 billion of commercial real estate assets from Bank Mutual shortly. CRE continues to account for nearly 1/4 of our average total loans and is well diversified by geography, property type and borrower. Our overall commercial and business lending portfolio had mixed results in 2017. We saw strong growth in our Power and Utilities and REIT businesses, with both portfolios capturing market share, growing customer accounts and increasing commitments year-over-year. However, net paydowns on the legacy oil and gas book and a contraction in mortgage warehouse lending, which was impacted by increased interest rates, tempered this year's activity.

Turning to general commercial loans. We have yet to see the pickup in activity that we've been expecting. We continue to engage with customers, extend commitments and proactively market, however, net commercial line utilization has continued to be soft. Our commercial and business lending portfolio accounts for 35% of our average total loans, and manufacturing the wholesale trade continue to be our largest industry exposures.

Loan details for the fourth quarter are highlighted on Slide 6. Average loans increased 4% from the year-ago quarter, but outstandings modestly decreased from the end of the third quarter. Residential mortgages increased 3% from the prior quarter, and that increase was primarily driven by ARM production activity. Commercial real estate decreased 2% from the prior quarter as we continue to preposition the balance sheet for the Bank Mutual acquisition.

Commercial and business lending was down 2% from the prior quarter, reflecting seasonality in both our general commercial and mortgage warehouse businesses and modest paydowns in the Power and Utilities portfolio. Commercial and business line utilization dropped to 50% in the fourth quarter 2016 and remained at approximately 50% utilization throughout 2017, down from the low to mid-50% range in the prior 2 years.

In 2018, we anticipate to grow our loan portfolio on average in the mid-single digits and fund over $1 billion of net new loans. In addition, we'll be adding approximately $2 billion of loans from the Bank Mutual acquisition.

We highlight our annual deposit growth on Slide 7. Average deposits grew 4% or $918 million from a year ago. Net deposits and customer funding increased $2.2 billion or 12% from the prior year. At year-end, the percentage of network transaction deposits to total deposits decreased to 11%, the lowest percentage of total deposits in 5 years.

In 2017, we saw a modest remixing in our deposit composition, driven by higher interest rates. Savings and time deposits increased $526 million or 18% from 2016. During the back half of 2017, we shifted our funding mix away from network transaction deposits and toward time deposits. Interest-bearing demand deposit accounts grew $544 million from the prior year as customer sought to participate in the rising rate environment. Conversely, noninterest-bearing demand deposits decreased 2% from 2016. Money market accounts decreased modestly also from 2016.

We're pleased with the consistent growth in our corporate and commercial specialty deposits. Technology has allowed us to successfully service our commercial deposit customers in the way that's most convenient for them. For the year, over 90% of our corporate banking customers' deposit activity was executed via lockbox or remote deposit. Later in 2018, we expect to roll out an enhanced commercial deposit platform, which will support further commercial deposit growth.

In addition, our consumer deposits have also seen healthy growth and are driven by our affinity programs, which have proven to be an effective means of capturing low-cost deposit balances. At year-end, our affinity-related accounts represented over 40% of active personal checking accounts.

We remain committed to enhancing our multichannel banking approach in 2018. We expect to deploy new online and mobile solutions early this year, which provide customers with enhanced features and capabilities.

Deposit details for the fourth quarter are highlighted on Slide 8. Average deposits of $22.2 billion were up 2% from the year-ago quarter but down 1% from the third quarter. At year-end, our loan-to-deposit ratio was 91% compared to 92% in the year-ago quarter and 94% in the third quarter. We remain committed to funding the majority of our organic loan growth with core deposits.

Overall, our deposit sources are balanced, with our checking and savings accounts representing 50% of total deposits. We continue to optimize our funding mix and, as I said, shifted some of our network transaction deposits to time deposits over these past 6 months.

For 2018, we expect to maintain a loan-to-deposit ratio under 100% but a seasonal high at the end of Q2. As a reminder, we expect to assume approximately $1.9 billion of deposits for the Bank Mutual acquisition.

Turning to Slide 9. Full year net interest income was $741 million, up 5% or $34 million from 2016. The growth in interest income was driven by $89 million of loan interest income, principally offset by $61 million of funding costs, reflecting the bank's overall asset sensitivity. The average yield on total commercial loans was 3.76%, up 44 basis points from the prior year. However, the expansion in loan yields was partially offset by more modest increases in the residential mortgage yields, which were only up 6 basis points year-over-year. The average yield on total residential mortgages was 3.23%. While our LIBOR-based commercial loans typically have a 6- to 8-week repricing lag, our adjustable rate mortgages largely reset over 3 to 7 years. Interest-bearing deposit costs were up 24 basis points, and we continue to see modest competitive pressure in deposit pricing within our markets.

Taken together, total loan yields increased 28 basis points, deposit cost increased 24 basis points, contributing to a 2 basis point expansion in net interest margin.

We highlight fourth quarter net interest income and margin trends on Slide 10. The average yield on total commercial loans decreased 4 basis points to 3.89% for the quarter. This decline was driven by lower interest recoveries and mix effects versus Q3. With respect to mix, we note that shrinkage in our higher-yielding general commercial loans was partially offset by growth in our REIT and Power and Utilities portfolios. The REIT and Power and Utility books are generally investment grade and have spreads that are sometimes 50 to 100 basis points lower than the general commercial credit portfolio.

The average yield on residential mortgage loans also decreased during the quarter, driven by a higher level of repayments (sic) [prepayments] than anticipated. As a reminder, our margin is negatively impacted in the month a Fed rate increase occurs. As such, the December rate increase caused our network deposits to reprice against us during Q4, while the benefit to our LIBOR-based loans won't be realized until this quarter. For 2018, we expect an improving loan yield trend to be partially offset by impacts of the Tax Act on our investment portfolio, leading to a modestly improving year-over-year net interest margin trend.

Annual noninterest income is highlighted on Slide 11. In 2017, total noninterest income of $333 million was down $20 million as we expected, reflecting lower mortgage banking activity. Fee-based revenue grew by $8 million from the prior year. Growth was largely driven by higher brokerage and asset management fees, reflecting the strength of the equity markets and the acquisition of Whitnell, which increased assets under management and related run rate revenue.

Mortgage banking income decreased $19 million from the prior year due to the company's on-balance sheet mortgage retention strategy and lower market volumes. For 2018, we expect total noninterest income, including Bank Mutual, to be between $360 million and $370 million, with increasing year-over-year fee-based revenue.

Annual noninterest expense is highlighted on Slide 12. Total noninterest expense of $709 million increased less than 1% from 2016. And as I said, the efficiency ratio improved for the sixth consecutive year.

Technology expense increased $6 million from 2016. Technology and equipment expenses currently represent about 12% of our annual expenditures. We understand the importance of building out our digital presence and capabilities, and we expect to continue to invest about 11% to 12% of our annual expenditures in solutions that will positively impact the customer experience and drive operational efficiency. Outside of technology expense, all other expenses, collectively, increased only $1 million from 2016. In connection with the enactment of the Tax Act, the company recorded approximately $1 million in the fourth quarter of 2017 for one-time bonus payments to our hourly noncommissioned employees.

On Slide 13, we summarize the annual credit quality trends for the loan book. During 2017, we saw our credit metrics improve across the portfolio, with a noticeable improvement in oil and gas loans. Potential problem loans, nonaccrual loans, net charge-offs, all decreased from 2016. Nonaccruals decreased $67 million from 2016, primarily due to improvements in the oil and gas book. Outside of oil and gas, total nonaccrual loans increased just $4 million from 2016. In total, nonaccruals represent 1% of total loans at year-end. Total net charge-offs for the year were $39 million, down $26 million from 2016. Full year net charge-offs to average loans decreased to 19 basis points from 33 in 2016. And our provision declined by $44 million from 2016.

On January 23, the company announced we'd received our final regulatory approval for the Bank Mutual acquisition. We anticipate closing the transaction on February 1. As a reminder, the transaction is an all-stock deal, with a fixed exchange ratio of 0.422 shares of Associated common stock for each outstanding share of Bank Mutual common stock. We expect to issue approximately 19.6 million shares, Associated common, in connection with this transaction.

Turning to the post-closing time line. We expect system conversion to occur in late June to early July, followed by branch and system decommissioning to be completed during Q3. In total, we expect to consolidate 36 branches, all of which are in Wisconsin. As previously announced, we anticipate $40 million in total restructuring costs. We expect to incur between $25 million and $30 million of those charges in the first quarter, with the remainder spread over the second and third quarters. In Q4, we expect to achieve our target cost savings of 45%, and we'll be operating with a new combined noninterest expense run rate of between $190 million and $195 million.

Let me take a minute to walk you through our expense outlook. On Slide 15, we provided a build up from our 2017 actual expenses to 2018 baseline. This combines ours and Bank Mutual's run rate expenses and adjusts for Whitnell and one-time items recorded in 2017.

We would layer on top of that normal expense growth of approximately 1%, the impact of moving our colleagues' minimum wage to $15 and then take away from that some Bank Mutual savings in Q3 and a full quarter of realized cost savings in Q4 at the 45% announced savings level. This will get you to a roughly $780 million annual expense or $195 million per quarter as we exit 2018. Total expenses for the year would also include estimated restructuring costs of $40 million, which leads us to an expected total GAAP expense of approximately $820 million for 2018.

We'd also like to talk for a moment about margin, noting that we'd leave 2017 with a fourth quarter margin of 2.79%. We expect to benefit from 3 Fed rate increases and Bank Mutual's slightly higher loan yields. Together, we could expect to add 6 to 9 basis points as we move through 2018. However, we also anticipate a modest fully tax equivalent margin adjustment on our municipal securities and loans, which will reduce our margin as these tax-advantaged assets provide less grossed up benefits. As such, we expect to see 3 to 6 basis points of net NIM expansion in our 2018 period.

In summary, on Slide 17, we'd like to summarize our 2018 outlook. The outlook reflects a stable to improving economy and the impact of corporate tax reform. The outlook assumes the closing of the Bank Mutual transaction on February 1. We expect pro forma mid-single-digit annual average loan growth on the combined the portfolio, and we expect to maintain the loan-to-deposit ratio under 100%. We expect a stable to improving NIM trend, assuming additional Fed reserve action to raise rates. Noninterest income is expected to be between $360 million and $370 million with improving year-over-year fee-based revenue. Noninterest expense is expected to be approximately $820 million, including $40 million of one-time restructuring costs in connection with the Bank Mutual transaction. We expect continued improvement in our efficiency ratio. We expect the 2018 effective tax rate to be between 20% and 22%. We expect to continue to deploy capital through our stated priorities. We continue to target a CET1 ratio within a range of 8% to 9.5%. Finally, the loan loss provision is expected to adjust with changes in risk rates, other indications of credit quality and loan volumes.

So with that, thank you, and we'll open it up to your questions.

(Operator Instructions) Our first question is from Michael Young, SunTrust Robinson Humphrey.

Thanks for all the color on the outlook for 2018, very helpful in what can be a little bit confusing year. But I wanted to dig just a little deeper into the kind of $1 billion of organic growth that you expect next year, obviously, resi being a big factor this year. But do you expect to return to kind of CRE growth next year? Or any other categories within kind of the C&I buckets that you expect to be relatively stronger year-over-year?

Yes, thanks. We would expect proportionately that both CRE and C&I would provide more growth than they did this past year. The pipeline for commercial real estate is pretty attractive at the moment. Commercial, we really do expect the impact of the Tax Act to start to generate more activity amongst our commercial borrowers. There's growing optimism out there. And we would expect, particularly as we get further into this year, to see more activity there. With rising rates, we would expect the residential mortgage business to continue to moderate. So overall, the billion-ish or so growth that we think should be proportionally more weighted towards C&I and CRE than resi mortgage as compared to this past year.

And then, I guess, maybe hitting on the inorganic side, with the Bank Mutual deal closing February 1 and conversion maybe by kind of fall this year, do you look back to the M&A market again to deploy some of the excess capital going into 2019? Or how quickly kind of are you back in that market?

Yes. So just to correct something you said, we expect conversion actually in early summer, not fall. So we've -- that time line has moved a little bit from when we first announced the transaction. As far as M&A, there's, I think, a favorable regulatory environment in place right now. So we will be open minded as we move through the year as we think about other opportunities.

Our next question is from Emlen Harmon, JMP Securities.

Just in terms of tax reforms should drive better profitability for you guys, I mean does it change your strategic thinking at all in terms of either potential investments as we go through this year? And also just in terms of capital strategy, whether maybe we see some more capital fall to those kind of -- those bottom buckets on your preferred uses of capital.

Yes, so -- and that's a great question. You've seen us take a few opportunities already to deploy the improved bottom line that we're going to have. So we've taken some actions for our colleague base. We think that, that's the appropriate thing to do. We know our customers are going to benefit, shareholders are going to benefit from increased net income and we will take a look at our capital deployment in relation to that. On top of that, we have a number of significant projects and investments that we're undertaking this year. We would have done these anyway, but the effect of the Tax Act makes these things even more attractive for us. As I mentioned, we have a significant conversion of our online and mobile platforms, which will occur in the coming couple of months. We're going to be converting the commercial deposit platform toward the latter part of the year and, in between, we'll have the conversion of Bank Mutual. So we've got a lot on our plates this year. And the additional income that will come to the bottom line helps all of that.

Got it. And then you guys have given us a lot of color around your expectations for next year. And I guess, maybe the -- a look at all the guidance provided for 1 wild card would be kind of the credit costs. And you guys noted obviously, it's kind of going to have to adjust relative to the environment. I mean is there anything on the horizon that you see coming that could meaningfully change your kind of credit costs? And how are you thinking about the provision? If the environment holds as it is today, how do you think about the provision trending through the year?

Yes. So you just saw us provide 0 in the fourth quarter. I would not recommend that you use that as a baseline. But not to be facetious, I think the oil and gas portfolio has significantly improved at this point. There's still a couple of transactions that could generate some losses, but they are fully reserved at this point. So we think the oil and gas issues that we've lived with the last few years is essentially behind us. There is no other stress of any systemic or meaningful amount sitting in the portfolio today. That doesn't mean there aren't always a few bad credits or losses to take, but there are no indications that credit quality is slipping anywhere. So the combination of going into the start of this year with what appears to be a really benign credit environment will probably dictate that the provision will be driven much by loan growth as well as perhaps the unexpected that might pop up. So it's a long way of saying I'm not going to put a number on it because we never really can do that, but the outlook is awfully positive for credit quality as we sit today.

Our next question is from Scott Siefers, Sandler O'Neill.

Phil or Chris, I was just hoping you could expand upon your comments, and I think, probably, Slide 10 is the best place to start just on the sequential decline in loan yields, specifically in commercial and resi mortgage. It sounds like that's nothing more than kind of the cumulative effect of mix shift. But I just want to make sure there's nothing else going on in there, number one. And then number two, how long would that dynamic that you expect to continue? Was it transitory or something that goes on for another quarter or 2?

Yes. So the resi mortgage drop was really driven by prepayments. That was most of it. Commercial, we had some interest recoveries in the third quarter. So that drove some of that decline. We don't think there's anything, as we sit today, systemic which will drive any of those yields down. In fact, they -- we should be benefiting as usual starting this quarter, particularly on the commercial lines and the commercial real estate lines from the Fed increase we saw in February.

That's in December.

I'm sorry, in December. I mean we'll be seeing the benefit as we get into February. So yes, I don't think that there's a systemic issue there.

Okay. All right. Perfect. And then, Chris, just sort of a geography question on the -- on unusual items. So the -- each is small individually. But with the exception of the roughly $1 million in cost related to the compensation actions, is everything else in the tax line -- obviously, the DTA, the $12 million DTA thing is, but the low-income housing stuff and then that other accelerated writeoff, are those both also in the tax line? Or do they show up somewhere else?

So 13 of the 15 are on the tax line. The compensation items are in the compensation items, then the other one is the combination of other things. But 13 of the 15 are on the tax line, and 1 is on the personnel line.

Our next question is from Chris McGratty, Keefe, Bruyette & Woods, Inc.

Chris, maybe for you. Anything to do with the acquired investment portfolio from -- that's coming over? Or should we be thinking just add your $6.6 billion in there, roughly $0.5 billion, and your kind of settled on around the $7 billion?

Obviously, we'll have an opportunity to consider options. But at this point in time, we're not communicating anything about our intentions.

But the total will be about $7 billion. The issue will be, do we reorient their portfolio in some way, and we're thinking that through.

Okay. So $7 billion is the right size. Okay, great.

Yes.

And then on the expenses, just to make sure I understand the guide. The $780 million; is that on an operating basis the full year? Or is that suggesting just take the $195 million for the fourth quarter and annualize it? I'm just trying to get...

Yes, so we're doing both. So the $780 million is the full year number on an operating basis, the $820 million is the full year number for GAAP. It's also going to be about $190 million to $195 million in Q4 of '18. So you'll be able to look at Q4 '18 and tell -- you'll be able to tell us we're on the right path.

Got it. Got it. And then maybe one more on credit. The drop in the potential problem loans, I might have missed it in your prepared remarks. Is that just the oil and gas book? Or is there anything else that showed up from it?

John Hankerd is here, our Chief Credit Officer. Was it mostly oil and gas?

It was mostly oil and gas, yes.

Our next question comes from Jared Shaw, Wells Fargo Securities.

I guess, on the deposit side, as we go through and see the next sort of round of rate hikes, what are your expectations for deposit beta there? And in terms of the mix shift, do you feel that we're sort of stabilized here? Or should we still expect to see, I guess, a continued trend towards time?

So first, on the overall deposit betas, deposit betas generally are for -- our core retail books have been benign, and we don't necessarily see that shifting, although we do see a competitive buildup. Our anticipation is as that -- as perhaps another couple of Fed actions take place, we'll start to see that build a little more. So built into our outlook is an expectation that there'll be a little more responsiveness in retail in 2018. We haven't necessarily seen that yet, but that's certainly an expectation going into 2018. With regard to the mix, we have continued to see a mix out of pure DDA and into interest-bearing; and on the consumer side, out of DDA and money market. And in due time, we'll probably continue to just see a little bit of that shift. At the same time, as you're aware, we've been reducing our use of network deposits as core deposit growth has continued to be sort of available in our marketplace at a reasonable cost. And so I think you'll see that mix as well balance itself at least through the first quarter and into the second, when we normally have our typical seasonal falloff in deposits and then reversing itself back in the back half of the year.

Okay. And then with the recovery here in oil prices, what's your appetite for growing that portfolio with the -- with your improvement in asset quality as well?

Yes. Well, we have continued to be active oil and gas lenders throughout the downturn. I think we talked before that in these kind of businesses, you don't try to jump in and out of the market. So out of the 56 credits that make up our loan portfolio, 22 of those are new since prices declined. About half of our commitments and almost half of our outstandings are new since price is reset. So we continue to have a strong appetite. And oil, with a 6 in front of it, is certainly helpful as far as generating activity in the oil patch.

In terms of looking at that as a percentage of the loan portfolio, though, sort of keeping pace with growth to the overall portfolio? Or could we see that ticking up as a contributor?

Well, as far as compared to the whole portfolio, once we add Bank Mutual to it, it's going to fall as a percentage. And by the end of the year, if it was back to the same percentage of just Associated, that would probably be surprising. So as an overall percentage of the portfolio, by the time we get to year-end, it's probably just where it is today or a little lower just because of the Bank Mutual acquisition.

Our next question comes from Terry McEvoy, Stephens Inc.

Just to start with 2 questions on noninterest income. The uptick in the fourth quarter in the brokerage line, was there any one-time payments or seasonality within that business? And could you just talk about the outlook for '18 specific to that line?

So there was no material one-time items. It was just a positive equity market background and an opportunity for folks to do a lot of year-end thinking on different things that drove probably some of that activity and contributed. And we would expect to see that continue on a buoyant path, provided market conditions remain positive. We would note though on the asset management fees, that was driven by the Whitnell acquisition, which is also benefiting from the market environment as well.

Sure. And then as a follow-up question, Phil, the branch count and the branch networks come down a lot over the years. What's your thought on, as stand-alone Associated, whether that number will continue to come down and whether any of those expense savings are built into forward projections?

Yes. So the legacy Associated Banc branch network has been pretty stable now for a good couple, 3 years. So we did most of the heavy lifting in the past. With Bank Mutual, of course, we're taking their 50-odd branches down by almost 2/3, 60%. And that will put us in good stead, I think. There's 12 new markets we'll be entering across the State of Wisconsin with the Bank Mutual acquisition, and we're very comfortable with each of those locations. One of the really great benefits of this, because of Bank Mutual sitting inside of our footprint, as we consolidate these branches, we're going to create an increasing number of large branches which, of course, become more efficient. We will have a significant number of $100 million-plus footings branches, which is great for driving our efficiency.

And just one last one for Chris. Any purchase accounting accretion on Slide 16 built into any of those expectations on the margin or NII?

No. We haven't built any in. We're in the process of going through the market and establishing a credit mark. There'll likely be a modestly negative interest rate mark. And I think in our math, we sort of take that into consideration, but there's not an explicit accretion expectation going into this.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have reached the end of the question-and-answer session. And I would like to turn the call back to Philip Flynn for closing remarks.

Okay, well, thank you for wading all through that. I know it's a little complex. I hope that we provided you enough detail on the slides to be able to answer some of your questions. But as always, please give us a call if you have any additional questions, and thank you for your interest in Associated.