Antalpha Platform Holding Co (ANTA) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to Antalpha's fourth-quarter and full-year 2025 earnings conference call.

各位好，感謝您耐心等候。歡迎參加 Antalpha 2025 年第四季暨全年財報電話會議。

Today's call is being recorded. All participants are now in a listen-only mode. After management prepared remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session.

本次電話會議將進行錄音。目前所有與會者皆處於僅收聽模式。管理層致詞結束後，將進行問答環節。

I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Chris Mammone , Managing Director of the Blueshirt Group and representative for Antalpha's investor relations team. Mr. Mammone, please go ahead.

現在我想把電話交給 Blueshirt Group 董事總經理、並代表 Antalpha 投資人關係團隊的 Chris Mammone 先生。Mammone 先生，請開始。

Thank you, operator. Please note that our remarks today will include forward-looking statements based on current expectations. These statements involve risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially.

謝謝，接線員。請注意，我們今天的發言將包含基於目前預期的前瞻性陳述。這些陳述涉及風險與不確定性，可能導致實際結果出現重大差異。

For a discussion of these risks, please refer to Antalpha’s filings with the SEC. We do not undertake any obligation to update forward-looking statements except as required by law.

關於這些風險的討論，請參閱 Antalpha 向美國證券交易委員會（SEC）提交的文件。除非法律另有要求，我們不承擔更新前瞻性陳述的任何義務。

This call also contains references to unaudited non-GAAP financial measures. Reconciliation to the most comparable GAAP measures can be found in our press release and SEC filings.

本次電話會議亦包含對未經審計的非 GAAP 財務衡量指標的引用。與最可比 GAAP 指標的調節表可於我們的新聞稿及 SEC 文件中查閱。

I'll now turn the call over to Herman Yu, head of strategy at Antalpha. Herman will provide key operational highlights, followed by Paul Liang, who will provide financial highlights on the call today. Both Herman and Paul will discuss our results on a year over year basis unless they mention otherwise. Herman, please go ahead.

接下來我將把電話交給 Antalpha 策略主管 Herman Yu。Herman 將分享關鍵營運亮點，隨後 Paul Liang 將在今天的電話會議中提供財務亮點。除非另有說明，Herman 與 Paul 將以年對年基礎討論我們的業績。Herman，請開始。

Welcome, everyone.

各位好，歡迎大家。

Thank you for joining our call today. Antalpha delivered a strong 4th quarter to wrap up a milestone year, reflecting the continued execution across our long-term roadmap.

感謝各位參加今天的電話會議。Antalpha 在第四季交出強勁表現，為這個里程碑年度畫下句點，反映我們持續落實長期路線圖的執行力。

Revenue growth accelerated every quarter throughout 2025, with 4th quarter revenue reaching $28 million, up 110% year over year. Despite Bitcoin prices declining 23% in the fourth quarter, Antalpha revenue remained resilient. For the year, Antalpha revenue was $80 million, up 68% year over year. Total loan book grew at a consistent steady pace with prudent risk management. Total value loan on Antalpha Prime reached $2.6 billion at the end of 2025, up 59% year over year.

2025 年每一季的營收成長皆逐季加速，第四季營收達 2,800 萬美元，年增 110%。儘管比特幣價格在第四季下跌 23%，Antalpha 的營收仍展現韌性。全年而言，Antalpha 營收為 8,000 萬美元，年增 68%。在審慎風險管理下，整體放款規模以一致且穩健的步伐成長。截至 2025 年底，Antalpha Prime 的放款總額達 26 億美元，年增 59%。

Bitcoin pledge on the total loan book was $3.7 billion. Loan to value or LTV on supply chain loans was 57%, representing our disciplined approach to underwriting and collateral management. Loan balance per client grew 43% and new client adds increased 12% year over year. At the end of December, our clients generated 81.3 Exahash, approximately 7.6% of global hash rate. For the fourth quarter, adjusted EBITDA was $18.4 million, up 802% year over year, and adjusted EBITDA margin reached 66%, up 51 points from the prior year. For 2025, adjusted EBITDA was $33.2 million, up 460% year over year, and adjusted EBITDA margin reached 42%, up 30 points for the year.

整體放款組合中的比特幣質押金額為 37 億美元。供應鏈貸款的貸款成數（LTV）為 57%，體現我們在授信審核與擔保品管理上的紀律。每位客戶的貸款餘額成長 43%，新增客戶數年增 12%。截至 12 月底，我們的客戶產生 81.3 Exahash，約占全球算力的 7.6%。第四季調整後 EBITDA 為 1,840 萬美元，年增 802%，調整後 EBITDA 利潤率達 66%，較去年提升 51 個百分點。2025 年調整後 EBITDA 為 3,320 萬美元，年增 460%，調整後 EBITDA 利潤率達 42%，全年提升 30 個百分點。

As a crypto native financing platform with tokenized gold upside, Antalpha revenue and profitability reached a historical high in the fourth quarter. Our mining financing business is aligned with the economics of compute, energy, and collateral-based lending. Our clients are more long-term focused, and they rely on Antalpha's risk management capabilities to better equip them in navigating macro volatility.

作為一個原生加密融資平台並具備代幣化黃金上行潛力，Antalpha 在第四季的營收與獲利能力創下歷史新高。我們的礦業融資業務與算力、能源以及以擔保品為基礎的放款經濟模型一致。我們的客戶更著眼長期，並仰賴 Antalpha 的風險管理能力，以更好地應對宏觀波動。

In addition, by embracing Tether Gold and acquiring XAUt as part of our long-term roadmap, such risk management strategy not only improves our balance sheet resilience and funding source, but also provides our shareholder with the upside to gold appreciation.

此外，透過採用 Tether Gold 並將收購 XAUt 納入我們的長期路線圖，這項風險管理策略不僅提升我們資產負債表的韌性與資金來源，也讓股東得以分享金價上漲的潛在收益。

In an industry susceptible to volatility and large market swings, it is important for us to solidify our current strength while seizing new opportunities in adjacent industries.

在一個容易受到波動與大幅市場震盪影響的產業中，對我們而言，鞏固既有優勢並把握相鄰產業的新機會至關重要。

When we look at large global financial institutions, we often find market leaders that have solid balance sheets to weather market turbulence and be ready for market opportunities as they arise.

當我們觀察全球大型金融機構時，往往會發現市場領導者擁有穩健的資產負債表，能夠度過市場動盪，並在機會出現時做好準備把握。

To us, this means having an active risk management strategy to weather the market volatility and leveraging our marketing position and competitive moat to build on new market opportunities.

對我們而言，這意味著採取主動的風險管理策略以度過市場波動，並運用我們的市場地位與競爭護城河，在新的市場機會上持續拓展。

Let me talk about our risk management and product innovation. Let's start with risk management. Antalpha's operating philosophy of “risk management first” has been prevalent since our inception. We require overcollateralization on day one, instead of relying on clients' credit rating, for loan origination.

接下來我談談我們的風險管理與產品創新。先從風險管理開始。Antalpha「風險管理優先」的營運理念自成立以來一直貫徹始終。在放款發起時，我們要求第一天即超額擔保，而非依賴客戶的信用評等。

We require our clients to store their machines at a data center where we know the operator, and all the BTCs our clients mine are deposited into our wallet, during the term of the loan, which allows our clients' collateral pool to accumulate. With Bitcoin down approximately 50% from its peak last October, we have been in conversation with our clients to review the current market situation. There have been 4 other periods in BTC's 17-year history with a drawdown of 50% or more, and the market rallied back each time. From a risk management perspective, it's important to be in conversations with our clients to discuss potential scenarios and options with them. Helping our clients navigate market volatility and maintaining a stable financial position is crucial to our clients' long-term participation in the Bitcoin mining industry. This not only brings tremendous value to our clients, it also strengthens our own business overall. Let me turn to product innovation and seizing new market opportunities. Our competitive moat comes from our ability to serve clients. We work closely with our clients to understand their needs and offer new financing solutions in anticipation of new market opportunities.

我們要求客戶將礦機存放於我們熟悉營運方的資料中心，且在貸款期間，客戶所挖出的所有 BTC 都會存入我們的錢包，使客戶的擔保品池得以累積。在比特幣自去年 10 月高點回落約 50% 的情況下，我們一直與客戶保持溝通，以檢視目前市場狀況。在 BTC 17 年歷史中，曾有另外 4 次回撤達 50% 或以上，而市場每次都隨後反彈。從風險管理角度來看，與客戶保持對話、討論可能情境與可行選項非常重要。協助客戶應對市場波動並維持穩健的財務狀況，對客戶長期參與比特幣挖礦產業至關重要。這不僅為客戶帶來巨大價值，也整體強化了我們自身的業務。接著談產品創新與把握新的市場機會。我們的競爭護城河來自於服務客戶的能力。我們與客戶密切合作，了解其需求，並在新市場機會出現前提供新的融資解決方案。

For example, it has been almost a year since we foresaw the importance of tokenized gold in serving the mining community and the crypto industry at large. Initially, we acquired $20 million in Tether Gold. Last October, we acquired NASDAQ listed Aurelion, anchoring its $100 million PIPE and purchasing $134 million in Tether Gold, which further strengthened our balance sheet while building for gold appreciation upside.

例如，距離我們預見代幣化黃金在服務礦業社群及更廣泛加密產業的重要性，至今已將近一年。起初，我們購入了 2,000 萬美元的 Tether Gold。去年 10 月，我們收購了納斯達克上市公司 Aurelion，作為其 1 億美元 PIPE 的基石投資人，並購入 1.34 億美元的 Tether Gold，進一步強化資產負債表，同時布局金價上漲的潛在收益。

As of year end, total accumulated unrealized gain on Tether Gold was $16.6 million. $9.5 million of that is attributed to Antalpha. Year to date, gold prices have gone up another 22% as of last Friday. Aside from Treasury gains, our involvement in Tether Gold and launching Antalpha RWA hub have also allowed our customers to diversify into Tether tokenized gold and improve the resilience of their crypto holdings. Starting in Q4, a client can purchase XAUt from us and redeem London bullion gold in both Singapore and Hong Kong. As a long-term roadmap, it's important to incorporate tokenized gold into our risk management strategy.

截至年底，Tether Gold 的累計未實現收益總額為 1,660 萬美元，其中 950 萬美元歸屬於 Antalpha。截至上週五，今年以來金價再上漲 22%。除了財庫收益外，我們參與 Tether Gold 並推出 Antalpha RWA hub，也讓客戶得以分散配置至 Tether 代幣化黃金，提升其加密資產持有的韌性。自第四季起，客戶可向我們購買 XAUt，並可在新加坡與香港兌換倫敦金條實物黃金。作為長期路線圖的一部分，將代幣化黃金納入我們的風險管理策略非常重要。

Gold has low correlation with Bitcoin and low volatility. Tokenized gold is well suited for use as a collateral and as a store of value. We are looking into offering XAUt collateralized loans to our clients for resilience and diversification.

黃金與比特幣的相關性低，且波動性較低。代幣化黃金非常適合作為擔保品及價值儲存工具。我們正在研究向客戶提供以 XAUt 作為擔保的貸款，以提升韌性並達到多元化配置。

With a strong supply of HPC coming to market, the backdrop suggests that AI agents are expected to drive demand for inference compute. With the advent of AI agents, we see financing opportunities that, in the past were not possible due to the high administrative costs, are now opportunities for us, such as agent-led financing solutions.

隨著大量 HPC 供給進入市場，整體背景顯示 AI 代理預期將帶動推理算力需求。隨著 AI 代理的出現，我們看到一些過去因行政成本過高而無法實現的融資機會，如今成為我們的機會，例如由代理主導的融資解決方案。

2026 will be an exciting year for us as we align Antalpha with new AI capabilities and market opportunities, as well as adjusting the way we operate to become an AI-driven company. We will brief you more on how we approach AI when we're ready to share more details.

2026 年對我們而言將是令人振奮的一年，因為我們將讓 Antalpha 與新的 AI 能力與市場機會對齊，同時調整我們的營運方式，成為一家以 AI 驅動的公司。待我們準備好分享更多細節時，會再向各位說明我們如何看待並導入 AI。

With that, let me turn the call over to Paul to walk through our financial highlights.

接下來，我把電話交給 Paul，請他帶大家回顧我們的財務重點。

Thank you, Herman. I will walk you through Antalpha's financial performance for the fourth quarter of 2025, focusing on the underlying drivers of our results. We closed the acquisition of Aurelion and their $100 million PIPE raising on October 10th last year. With 73% of Aurelion's share voting rights, we started consolidating Aurelion’s operating results subsequent to the deal closing. We released the Q4 earnings release earlier today. As you can see, our Q4 earnings release show Antalpha’s operating results at three levels. First, Antalpha combined and consolidated. And second, Antalpha Prime, which is the Antalpha business prior to the acquisition of Aurelion. And the third, Aurelion.

謝謝你，Herman。我將帶各位回顧 Antalpha 2025 年第四季的財務表現，並聚焦於驅動我們業績的核心因素。我們已於去年 10 月 10 日完成對 Aurelion 的收購，以及其 1 億美元的 PIPE 募資。由於我們持有 Aurelion 73% 的股份表決權，我們在交易完成後開始合併 Aurelion 的營運成果。我們今天稍早已發布第四季財報新聞稿。如各位所見，我們的第四季財報新聞稿以三個層級呈現 Antalpha 的營運結果。第一，Antalpha 合併與併表後的結果。第二，Antalpha Prime，也就是收購 Aurelion 之前的 Antalpha 業務。第三，Aurelion。

Herman summarized Antalpha's consolidated results. Let me now give you more color on Antalpha Prime and Aurelion. Let me talk about Antalpha Prime first. 4th quarter revenue on our Prime business was $28 million, which reached the high end of our guidance, growing 110% year over year. All revenue derived in Q4 was organic. There was no contribution from Aurelion.

Herman 已總結 Antalpha 的併表結果。接下來我會補充更多關於 Antalpha Prime 與 Aurelion 的細節。我先談 Antalpha Prime。第四季 Prime 業務營收為 2,800 萬美元，達到我們指引區間的上緣，年增 110%。第四季的所有營收皆為有機成長。Aurelion 沒有任何貢獻。

Tech financing fees on supply chain loans was $18.5 million, up 79% year over year, driven by continuous strength in hashrate loans. Tech platform fees on margin loan was $6 million, up 98% year over year. Other revenue was $3.5 million. This was mainly related to pilot loans. We did not have such revenues in prior years. Turning to net fee margin or NFM. Total NFM increased 25 basis points year over year driven by margin loan improvements.

供應鏈貸款的科技融資費用為 1,850 萬美元，年增 79%，主要受算力（hashrate）貸款持續強勁所帶動。保證金貸款的科技平台費用為 600 萬美元，年增 98%。其他營收為 350 萬美元。這主要與試點貸款相關。過去年度我們沒有這類營收。接著談淨費用利差（NFM）。總 NFM 年增 25 個基點，主要由保證金貸款改善所驅動。

Margin loan NFM increased 30 bps year over year to 1.49%. For supply chain loans, funding costs increased slightly faster than revenue growth due to the redeployment of $40 million as part of our investment in the Aurelion PIPE. Turning to non-GAAP operating expense, excluding funding costs. Antalpha Prime non-GAAP OpEx excluding funding costs was $8.5 million, up 45% year over year, which grew slower than the 110% year over year revenue growth, reflecting continued operating leverage from Antalpha Prime technology platform.

保證金貸款 NFM 年增 30 個基點至 1.49%。就供應鏈貸款而言，由於我們將 4,000 萬美元重新配置作為對 Aurelion PIPE 的投資一部分，資金成本的上升速度略快於營收成長。接著談非 GAAP 營業費用（不含資金成本）。Antalpha Prime 的非 GAAP 營業費用（不含資金成本）為 850 萬美元，年增 45%，其增速低於營收年增 110%，反映 Antalpha Prime 科技平台持續帶來的營運槓桿。

Within Prime operating expense on a non-GAAP basis, tech and development fee increased 32% and G&A expenses increased 35% year over year, which reflect operating efficiency. Sales and marketing increased 121% year over year or $1.6 million, mostly due to increase in industry-event sponsor and to a lesser extent due to the increase in personnel related expense.

在 Prime 的非 GAAP 營業費用中，技術與開發費用年增 32%，一般及行政（G&A）費用年增 35%，反映營運效率。銷售與行銷費用年增 121%，或增加 160 萬美元，主要因產業活動贊助增加，另有一部分來自人員相關費用增加。

Prime adjusted EBITDA was $9 million compared to $2 million last year. Prime adjusted margin was 32% compared to 15% last year. Q4 Prime adjusted EBITDA includes $3 million unrealized gains on Tether Gold.

Prime 調整後 EBITDA 為 900 萬美元，去年同期為 200 萬美元。Prime 調整後利潤率為 32%，去年同期為 15%。第四季 Prime 調整後 EBITDA 包含 300 萬美元的 Tether Gold 未實現收益。

Turning to Aurelion. Aurelion did not have any revenue in Q4. Adjusted EBITDA of Aurelion for the Q4 was $9.4 million, which includes $10.4 million in unrealized gain on Tether Gold. Let me decompose our current valuation. Aurelion's net asset value at December 31 was $106.8 million, not counting the gold appreciation since.

接著談 Aurelion。Aurelion 在第四季沒有任何營收。Aurelion 第四季調整後 EBITDA 為 940 萬美元，其中包含 1,040 萬美元的 Tether Gold 未實現收益。我來拆解我們目前的估值。截至 12 月 31 日，Aurelion 的淨資產價值為 1.068 億美元，尚未計入其後的金價上漲。

Antalpha's economic interest of 32% in Aurelion would be worth approximately $34 million. When you add back, take this out from Antalpha's market cap of $208 million, using last Friday’s closing price, Antalpha's being valued at roughly 2.2 times of 2025 revenue and 9.3 times of 2025 net income attributed to Antalpha. We have built a very sizable crypto-native lending platform with strong risk management, which positions us in a very unique position to take advantage of new blockchain lending scenarios, including inference compute and AI agent lending opportunities.

Antalpha 對 Aurelion 的 32% 經濟權益約值 3,400 萬美元。若以上週五收盤價計算，從 Antalpha 2.08 億美元的市值中加回並扣除該部分後，Antalpha 的估值約為 2025 年營收的 2.2 倍，以及歸屬於 Antalpha 的 2025 年淨利的 9.3 倍。我們已建立一個規模相當可觀、具備強健風險管理的加密原生借貸平台，使我們處於非常獨特的位置，得以把握新的區塊鏈借貸情境，包括推理算力與 AI 代理借貸機會。

Turning to Q1 guidance.

接著談第一季指引。

We expect revenue for the first quarter of 2026 to range between $20 million and $23 million, representing an increase between 47% to 69% year over year. This assumes that market conditions remain consistent with what we see today for the remaining period of the quarter. With that, I will turn over to Herman for closing.

我們預期 2026 年第一季營收介於 2,000 萬至 2,300 萬美元之間，年增 47% 至 69%。此預測假設本季剩餘期間的市場狀況與我們目前所見一致。接下來我把時間交回 Herman 做結語。

We exit 2025 with strong execution across our strategic priorities, growing consistently across Bitcoin up cycles and down cycles. We have scaled Antalpha Prime lending. At year end, our loan books stood at $2.6 billion and our clients provided $3.7 billion in Bitcoin collateral, which is an amazing feat for a three year old company like us. Looking ahead in 2026, our priorities are of threefold. First, we will remain focused on active risk management and continue to work closely with our clients to manage market volatility. Having a sound balance sheet positions our clients to expand mining activities in the future. Second, as a crypto native lending platform with established trust and brand in the industry, we are well positioned in the mining industry and leveraging Antalpha Prime to branch into new areas. We are super excited about using our platform to tap into AI and the tremendous opportunities that AI agents will bring to the industry.

我們在 2025 年結束時，於各項策略優先事項上執行強勁，無論比特幣處於上行或下行週期，都能持續成長。我們已擴大 Antalpha Prime 借貸規模。截至年底，我們的貸款餘額達 26 億美元，客戶提供 37 億美元的比特幣抵押品，對一家成立僅三年的公司而言，這是非常了不起的成果。展望 2026 年，我們有三大優先事項。第一，我們將持續專注於主動風險管理，並與客戶緊密合作以應對市場波動。健全的資產負債表能讓我們的客戶在未來擴大挖礦活動。第二，作為在產業內已建立信任與品牌的加密原生借貸平台，我們在挖礦產業具備良好定位，並將運用 Antalpha Prime 拓展至新領域。我們非常期待運用平台切入 AI，以及 AI 代理將為產業帶來的巨大機會。

And lastly, we’ll continue to innovate in the area of Tether Gold, including RWA hub and other opportunities to release the value of tokenized gold. Real-world assets will be an important category in the crypto industry. Tether announced in January that they have acquired $23 billion in gold, which tees them up to make tokenized gold a very big business. With that, let's go into Q&A. Operator, please go ahead.

最後，我們也將持續在 Tether Gold 領域創新，包括 RWA 中樞（hub）及其他釋放代幣化黃金價值的機會。實體資產（Real-world assets）將是加密產業的重要類別。Tether 於一月宣布已收購 230 億美元的黃金，這使其具備把代幣化黃金做成非常大規模業務的條件。接下來我們進入問答。接線員，請開始。

Thank you, management.

謝謝管理團隊。

(Operator Instructions) Ed Engel, Compass Point.

(接線員指示) Compass Point 的 Ed Engel。

Hi, thank you for taking my question. Do you mind just talking about the performance of the loan book, whether or not there was any write-offs, or provisions, in the 4th quarter, and I guess just quarter to date, how that's been holding up.

嗨，謝謝讓我提問。能否請你們談談貸款組合的表現，第四季是否有任何沖銷或提列備抵，另外就本季迄今的情況來看，整體表現如何。

Paul, you want to talk about loan provisions?

Paul，你要談談貸款備抵嗎？

Well.

嗯。

Oh sorry, I was on mute just now.

喔抱歉，我剛剛在靜音。

And for the 4th quarter we don't have any, write off on the loans, but we do calculate provision based on, the CECL, which is a normal, practice for assessing the provision of, our.

至於第四季，我們在貸款上沒有任何核銷，但我們確實會依據 CECL 計算備抵，這是評估我們備抵的正常作法。

Can you hear me?

你聽得到我嗎？

Yeah, we could do.

對，我們可以。

Yeah, okay. Yeah. So, basically it's, well, calculated based on the loan book, yeah.

對，好。對。所以基本上就是，嗯，是依據貸款組合來計算的，對。

Okay, yeah, and you can see from our sorry, LTV it's, at 57%, which is, pretty healthy.

好的，對，而且你可以從我們的——抱歉——LTV 看到是 57%，這相當健康。

And it just in the first quarter, would you expect continued, no write-offs either?

那就第一季而言，你會預期也會持續沒有核銷嗎？

Well, we, we're managing, our loan book now as I mentioned in the prepared remarks that, we're talking to clients and, monitoring them and working with them. So I think, at this point, we are managing our thing and we are obviously, as we mentioned, the way we work our business is we want our clients to have sound balance sheet. Right, so that with new, versions of machines that come out, they can participate in the next, upgrade. They could continue to have, hash rate financing and so forth. So, we're working with them, right now, and that's what we apply with, our risk management. So, we're managing this and so far, we haven't seen any, major, issues with these, bad debt layoffs and so forth. So, we're going to have to manage the situation because the situation is fluid, as with so many events that's happened just in the last few weeks.

嗯，我們現在正在管理我們的貸款組合，正如我在準備好的講稿裡提到的，我們正在與客戶溝通、監控他們並與他們合作。所以我想，就目前而言，我們在管理我們的狀況，而且很明顯地，如同我們提到的，我們經營業務的方式是希望客戶擁有健全的資產負債表。對，這樣當新的機器版本推出時，他們就能參與下一次升級。他們也可以持續進行算力融資等等。所以我們現在正與他們合作，而這就是我們在風險管理上所採用的做法。因此我們在管理這件事，到目前為止，我們沒有看到任何重大問題，例如壞帳裁撤之類的情況。所以我們必須管理這個局勢，因為情勢是變動的，就像過去幾週發生的許多事件一樣。

Great, that, that's helpful, and then, you talked about a $3.5 million of revenue, from pilot loans, but those are also repaid by the end of the year. So do you mind just kind of explaining to me what those pilot loans were, and would you expect to, have those, again in 2026?

很好，這很有幫助。然後你提到有 350 萬美元的營收來自試點貸款，但那些也會在年底前償還。所以你介意稍微跟我解釋一下那些試點貸款是什麼嗎？以及你預期 2026 年還會再有這些嗎？

Yeah, so, we, we've been having experiments with different types of loan scenarios, in the last few quarters. In Q4 specifically, the majority of the loan came from, a loan, a bridge loan that we gave for that. And because the loan term expired by the end of the quarter, we don't expect to have that kind of a loan, in Q1.

對，所以我們在過去幾個季度一直在嘗試不同類型的貸款情境。就第四季而言，貸款的大部分來自我們提供的一筆過橋貸款。而且因為該筆貸款期限在季度末到期，所以我們預期第一季不會再有那種貸款。

Great, thanks for the color and, great, good to hear everything's going up okay.

很好，謝謝補充說明，也很高興聽到一切都進展順利。

Thanks, thank you.

謝謝，謝謝你。

Darren Aftahi, Roth.

Darren Aftahi，Roth。

Hi guys, good morning. Good evening, just three if I may, just, in light of power and globally people maybe reallocating power from Bitcoin mining to AI, can you maybe talk about what you're seeing in the market, in terms of. Opportunity obviously in crypto winners sometimes people lean into things and then there's other times where you know cost of buying becomes a little bit prohibitive so just maybe the the macro environment there to your AI lending and financing platform, like what sort of KPIs do you need to see in order for that to become kind of a real product slash revenue line? And then is there any thought from the management or board level, about share buybacks or redeploying capital, for the shareholders?

嗨各位，早安。晚安，如果可以的話我有三個問題：鑑於電力以及全球可能把電力從比特幣挖礦重新配置到 AI，你能談談你們在市場上看到的情況嗎，關於。機會方面，顯然在加密領域有時候贏家會讓人加碼投入，但也有時候你知道，購置成本會變得有點難以負擔，所以想請你談談你們 AI 放貸與融資平台所處的宏觀環境；要看到哪些 KPI，才會讓它成為一個真正的產品／營收線？另外，管理層或董事會層面是否有任何關於庫藏股回購或重新部署資本以回饋股東的想法？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Okay, great. That's a lot of questions. Let me TRY. So, energy, I think, a couple of things, we're seeing a lot of, public companies, shifting their, data centers for AI use. I think in that sense, it, it's probably positive for our business because then that will level the playing field, for everyone. As there's limited amount of, Bitcoins, out there. So, if everyone's at the same energy efficiency, then, it, it's easier, for our clients and so forth. So, I think from that perspective, in terms of the energy cost, there, there's many, there are many factors going to that. It's hard to generalize. So when you look at our customers, it's, across different regions of, the US.

好，很好。問題很多。我來試著回答。先談能源，我想有幾件事：我們看到很多上市公司把他們的資料中心轉作 AI 用途。從這個角度來看，這對我們的業務可能是正面的，因為這會讓大家站在同一個起跑線上。因為市場上的比特幣數量是有限的。所以如果大家的能源效率都一樣，那對我們的客戶等等就更容易。因此我想從這個角度來看，至於能源成本，有很多因素會影響。很難一概而論。當你看我們的客戶時，他們分布在美國不同地區。

And, the cost of, energy, there, there's factor like, for example, different cities, they would have, probably different price for mining versus the, their typical commercial and resi residential. So if you have too many people doing mining and it's sucking away from commercial and residential, you probably get taxed. So that is more of a function of how many machines, how dense are those. Machines are in that particular city and obviously, across different cities, they have different, way to, charge the rates. So, I don't see any particular pattern that's impacted by AI. What we normally see is, because of the, fluctuation in Bitcoin prices because of, people coming in with new machines and so forth, those things are usually, more direct, impact to lose energy.

而且能源成本方面，會有一些因素，例如不同城市，挖礦用電的價格可能會和一般商用與住家用電不同。所以如果太多人挖礦、把商用與住家用電的供給吸走，你可能就會被課稅。因此這更取決於那個城市有多少台機器、密度有多高。而且不同城市顯然有不同的方式來計費。所以我沒有看到任何特定模式是由 AI 所造成的影響。我們通常看到的是，因為比特幣價格波動，以及有人導入新機器等等，這些因素通常對能源的影響更直接。

Okay. So, I would say, the cost of mining a Bitcoin today probably just is higher than, for example, a year ago, right? And you saw some of the, public companies reporting the cost of getting one, Bitcoin.

好的。所以我會說，今天挖出一枚比特幣的成本，可能確實比例如一年前更高，對吧？而你也看到一些上市公司在揭露取得一枚比特幣的成本。

Okay, AI lending, I think AI lending is, really two ways. One is we talked about, inference chip, compute. What we're talking about today, I think, opportunity that we're also looking at is using, AI agents. In the past, as this whole lending business, there's a lot of administrative things you have to do, number one is, all the KYC, all the. Checks and stuff, secondly, I think it's very unique. I think in the going forward that, today, for example, if I go into my account, I want to buy certain type of bond, buy a certain type of products and so forth, I have to manually shift it. There's a lot of things that you select and if you have different, on different, platforms and so forth, you gotta go through each one of these and read the details, right? What we envision is with, these agents, in the future, you just set the criteria. It basically just continues to go out and it just, searches for these and between, agents and so forth, you can. Constantly these, type of transactions versus mainly have to, seek them out.

好的，AI 放貸我認為主要有兩個方向。一個是我們談到的推論晶片算力。我們今天談的，我想我們也在看的另一個機會是使用 AI 代理（agents）。過去整個放貸業務有很多行政工作要做，第一是所有 KYC、所有。各種查核等等；第二，我覺得這非常獨特。我認為未來，例如今天我登入帳戶想買某種債券、買某種產品等等，我必須手動調整。你要選很多項目，而且如果你在不同平台上，你就得逐一操作並閱讀細節，對吧？我們的想像是，未來有了這些代理，你只要設定條件。它基本上就會持續出去搜尋，而在代理與代理之間等等，你可以。持續進行這類交易，而不是主要還得自己去找。

So I think with the advent of AI, I think people who are in the blockchain, who can do risk management, who has the whole platform set up, gives us an opportunity to actually leverage the blockchain technology, which, agents can be able to basically talk to another agent. And you could basically go out and scout out, here's the criteria that we want and so forth. And then, if it meets my criteria, then I'm willing to, transact. So, it brings a really interesting dimension. We're looking at that, and we're also looking at how our company is structured and how do we, adjust that, so that we're, seizing and taking, putting ourselves, set up to take advantage of such, opportunity.

所以我認為隨著 AI 的到來，在區塊鏈領域、能做風險管理、並且已經把整個平台建好的人，會讓我們有機會真正運用區塊鏈技術，讓代理基本上可以和另一個代理對話。你基本上可以出去搜尋：這是我們想要的條件等等。然後如果符合我的條件，我就願意交易。所以它帶來一個非常有趣的面向。我們正在研究這件事，也在看我們公司的架構以及如何調整，讓我們能掌握並利用這樣的機會，並把自己定位好以便受益。

In terms of share buyback, our stock price has been going, volatile, and we're watching, the market. So, we announced a share buyback a while back, and we are watching the market and we're, looking at it opportunisticly. Obviously, with a stock price going up and down because of recent news and so forth, you probably wanted to, settle down or you wanted to see if there are, opportunistic way for us to do this so that it's adds value to our shareholders.

就股份回購而言，我們的股價一直在波動，我們也在關注市場。因此，我們在不久前宣布了一項股份回購計畫，我們正在觀察市場，並以機會主義的方式來評估。顯然，近期新聞等因素使股價上下起伏，你可能會希望它先穩定下來，或看看是否有我們可以把握的機會，以便為股東創造價值。

Hal Go, B Riley Securities.

Hal Go，B Riley Securities。

Peter, in Q4 there was quite a drawdown in Bitcoin prices, and then, and the results were, a pretty good solid results for the quarter, $28 million in revenue. Then another drawdown in the quarter, Q1, and the guidance is for $20 million to $23 million in revenue, down from $28 million in 4Q, and I was wondering if you could give us some. Some, a bridge to how you think about that quarter shaping up versus Q4 just kinda, you know.

Peter，第四季比特幣價格出現相當大的回檔，但季度結果仍然相當不錯且穩健，營收2,800萬美元。接著第一季又出現一次回檔，而指引是營收2,000萬到2,300萬美元，較第四季的2,800萬美元下滑；我想請你們提供一些說明。能否給我們一個橋接，說明你們如何看待本季相較第四季的走勢，大概是怎麼形成的。

What are some of the drivers of how you're thinking about that guidance and how it steps down from 20 $28 million to the $20 to $23 million dollar range.

你們在思考該指引時有哪些驅動因素？以及為何會從2,800萬美元下滑到2,000萬到2,300萬美元的區間。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Okay, alright, I think, number one is, as we mentioned earlier, we had, other revenue, that we test pilot in Q4 that 3.5, so that's going to go away, in Q1, right? So that brings us in the 24 range. So our guidance right now. The '20 to '23 versus the '24, that gap is the anticipation of maybe some of the loans that, there could be early retirement, because as I mentioned earlier, we talked to, these, our clients and so forth, and some of them, there are those that want to continue mining, thinking that there could be, Bitcoin going up. And there are those that as we talked to, they feel like closing it out, would make sense. So, you're seeing that, those kind of, discussions reflected in our guidance.

好的，沒問題。我想第一點是，如同我們先前提到的，我們在第四季有一筆試點的其他收入3.5（百萬），所以第一季這筆會消失，對吧？因此就會把我們帶到約2,400萬的水準。所以我們目前的指引。「2,000萬到2,300萬」相對於「2,400萬」之間的差距，是因為我們預期部分貸款可能會提前清償；如同我先前提到的，我們與客戶等進行了溝通，有些人希望繼續挖礦，認為比特幣可能會上漲。也有一些人在我們溝通後，覺得把它結清會更合理。所以你會看到這類討論反映在我們的指引之中。

Okay.

好的。

I think our prior discussions over the last, year or so, Herman, talk about how when if there's drawdowns in Bitcoin prices, miners get more active and maybe you're not, you don't have a loan balances and margin loans, but, the Bitcoin mining gets more active. Is, are you seeing that behavior now? People are kind of leaning into more mining machines to buy Bitcoin when it's draw a drawdown, or how is that? How is that progressing?

我記得我們過去一年左右的討論中，Herman，你提到當比特幣價格回檔時，礦工會更積極，或許你們不一定有貸款餘額和保證金貸款，但比特幣挖礦活動會更活躍。你們現在有看到這種行為嗎？大家是否在回檔時更傾向投入、購買更多礦機來挖比特幣，還是情況如何？目前進展如何？

I think at this point because, Bitcoin prices have gone down pretty significantly in a very short amount of time and because there's a lot of uncertainty in the market, you probably want that to settle a little bit before people going in.

我認為目前因為比特幣價格在很短時間內大幅下跌，而且市場存在很多不確定性，在人們進場之前，你可能希望它先稍微穩定一些。

So I think we need to stabilize a little bit and then because from our perspective if prices are coming down or going up any type of these big changes you know we want to have a more stable price in a more stable environment before we're willing to lend lend it out right because we're we're based on LTV if it's, going down in in a certain speed and then all of a sudden you lend it out with this LTV that margin, could be eaten up very quickly so. So I think that there's a demand there, but from a risk management perspective, as I stressed in a prepared remarks, at this environment, it's very important for us to make every loan origination, make sure that, it would, it doesn't blow up in us a couple of quarters down the line. So we're going to be looking at the current, macro situation as things get more stable and so forth, then, what you said, that there's more opportunity for us to do that.

所以我認為我們需要先穩定一下；從我們的角度來看，無論價格下跌或上漲，這種大幅變動下，我們希望在更穩定的價格與環境中才願意放貸，因為我們是以LTV（貸款價值比）為基礎；如果價格以某種速度下跌，然後你又以這個LTV放貸，那個保證金緩衝可能很快就被吃掉。因此我認為需求是存在的，但從風險管理角度來看，正如我在事先準備的發言中強調的，在這種環境下，我們在每一筆貸款承作時都必須確保它不會在幾個季度後反噬、出問題。所以我們會觀察目前的總體環境；等情勢更穩定之後，正如你所說，對我們而言就會有更多機會去做這件事。

Okay.

好的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Devin Ryan, Citizens Bank.

Devin Ryan，Citizens Bank。

Hey guys, this is Neo Eloff on for Devin. Just kind of a quick question on policy and how you guys are thinking about it. So obviously the Clarity Act is kind of a big topic here in the US, but you could talk about various legislation around the world. I guess, what do you see as the opportunities that some of this legislation kind of comes through for your various businesses. And what are some challenges you, participate or expect as some of the incumbents, potentially are more willing to get into the, this lending game, as it becomes more institutionalized.

各位好，我是代替Devin的Neo Eloff。我有個關於政策以及你們如何思考的簡短問題。顯然，《Clarity Act》目前在美國是個重要議題，但你也可以談談全球各地的不同立法。我想問的是，你們認為這些立法若逐步落地，對你們各項業務會帶來哪些機會？以及當這個放貸領域變得更制度化後，一些既有機構可能更願意進入，你們預期或認為會面臨哪些挑戰？

I think, I, 1st of all, I think, when you think about, the crypto with these, new legislation and so forth, you're seeing a lot of the, existing financial institutions going to it. Right. And you're seeing a lot of the, for example, asset management going to, RWAs and so forth. So what that means, I think is number one, access is going to open up. So I don't think in a market that even today is $2 trillion you're concerned with competition because. the size of $2 trillion is a huge market, right? If you look at just our client right now, you have a, you have a, crypto on their hands over $3 billion some dollars. There's a lot of things you could do for them to actually diversify their investment.

我想，首先，當你談到加密產業與這些新立法等，你會看到許多既有金融機構開始進入。對。你也會看到例如資產管理業者開始走向RWA（實體資產代幣化）等方向。所以我認為這代表第一，市場的可及性會被打開。因此，即便今天市場規模是2兆美元，我不認為你會因競爭而擔心，因為2兆美元的市場非常大。如果只看我們目前的客戶，他們手上持有的加密資產就超過30億美元。我們其實可以為他們做很多事，協助他們分散投資。

So I think the opportunities is there. I think number 2 is, as I mentioned earlier, when you think about first, the mining business and outside of the mining, you gotta have a platform, you gotta have a brand, you gotta have all this, situation worked out for risk management, being able to deal with, stablecoin, being able to deal with, for example, Like, tokenize gold, because any type of these exchanges, you need a place of safety, right? If you have some of these investments have high volatility and so forth. So I think from that infrastructure stack, I think we're well set up, over the last 3 years and as these market opportunities arise because of our brand, because our customers currently. We have a lot of the assets in their hand that gives us kind of a foundation to go into these new businesses. So I think whether it's Clarity Act or any other thing that gives them more clarity, it just means that there's more partners that we could work with and because of our platform and the clients that we have, the current assets that we have, we could do a lot with these kind of, opportunities.

所以我認為機會是存在的。第二點是，如我先前提到的，當你先看挖礦業務以及挖礦之外的業務，你需要一個平台、需要品牌，還需要把風險管理等各種事情都建置到位，能夠處理穩定幣，也能夠處理例如代幣化黃金，因為任何這類交易，你都需要一個安全的場所，對吧？尤其當其中一些投資具有高波動性等情況。所以從這個基礎設施堆疊來看，我認為我們在過去三年已經建立得相當完善；而當這些市場機會因我們的品牌、因我們現有客戶而出現時。我們客戶手上有大量資產，這也給了我們一個基礎，去拓展到這些新業務。因此，不論是《Clarity Act》或任何其他能帶來更多明確性的事情，都意味著我們可以合作的夥伴更多；而憑藉我們的平台、我們的客戶、以及我們目前掌握的資產，我們可以在這類機會上做很多事情。

Awesome. Thanks.

太棒了。謝謝。

Thank you for the question. That concludes the question-and-answer period. Thank you again for joining our call today. You may now disconnect.

謝謝你的提問。問答環節到此結束。再次感謝各位今天參與我們的電話會議。各位現在可以斷線。