Antalpha Platform Holding Co (ANTA) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to Antalpha third quarter 2025 earnings conference call. Today's call is being recorded. (Operator Instructions) I would now-like to turn the call over to Mr. Chris Mammone, Managing Director of the Blue Shirt Group and representative for Antalpha Investor relations team.

您好，感謝您的耐心等待。歡迎參加 Antalpha 2025 年第三季財報電話會議。今天的通話將會被錄音。（操作員指示）現在，我想把電話轉交給藍襯衫集團董事總經理兼 Antalpha 投資者關係團隊代表 Chris Mammone 先生。

Mr. Mammone, please go ahead.

馬蒙先生，請繼續。

Thank you, operator. Please note that our remarks today will include forward-looking statements based on current expectations. These statements involve risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results that differ materially.

謝謝接線生。請注意，我們今天的發言將包含基於當前預期的前瞻性陳述。這些聲明涉及風險和不確定性，可能導致實際結果與預期結果有重大差異。

For discussion of these risks, please refer to Antalpha's filings with the SEC. We do not undertake any obligation to update forward-looking statements except as required by law. Management may make remarks on the product and tax differentiation between an ETF and listed stock based on their understanding. The company is not providing tax or investment advice. Please consult your CPA and other licensed professionals for such advice.

有關這些風險的討論，請參閱 Antalpha 向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件。除法律要求外，我們不承擔更新前瞻性聲明的任何義務。管理層可根據其理解，對 ETF 和上市股票之間的產品和稅收差異發表評論。該公司不提供稅務或投資建議。請諮詢您的註冊會計師和其他持證專業人士以取得此類建議。

This call also contains reference to unaudited non-GAAP financial measures. Reconciliations to the most comparable GAAP measures can be found in our press release and SEC filings. Now I'll turn the call over to Herman Yu, Head of Strategy for Antalpha. Herman, please go ahead.

本次電話會議也提及了未經審計的非GAAP財務指標。有關與最可比較的 GAAP 指標的調節表，請參閱我們的新聞稿和提交給美國證券交易委員會的文件。現在我將把電話交給 Antalpha 的策略主管 Herman Yu。赫爾曼，請繼續。

Thank you, Chris, and good morning, everyone. Antalpha delivered another strong quarter in Q3. We executed across major strategic initiatives and our revenue grew 62% year-over-year, accelerating from the first half.

謝謝你，克里斯，大家早安。Antalpha 第三季業績依然強勁。我們成功執行了各項重大策略舉措，營收年增 62%，較上半年增速加快。

For the fourth quarter, Antalpha is expecting revenue to roughly double year-over-year. Both supply chain loans and margin loans contributed this momentum reflecting the broader adoption of collateralized loans in the crypto sector. Total loans facilitated on Antalpha Prime reached $2.4 billion and BTC collateral supporting these loans reached $3.9 billion.

Antalpha預計第四季營收將比上年同期成長約一倍。供應鏈貸款和保證金貸款都推動了這一成長勢頭，反映出抵押貸款在加密貨幣領域中得到更廣泛的應用。Antalpha Prime 促成的貸款總額達到 24 億美元，支持這些貸款的比特幣抵押品總額達到 39 億美元。

Antalpha's LTV on supply chain loans was at 59% at the end of the third quarter. Antalpha has multiple vectors driving our double-digit topline growth due to the sheer size and new businesses evolving from the crypto market, which is set to gain wider adoption.

截至第三季末，Antalpha 的供應鏈貸款貸款成數為 59%。由於加密貨幣市場規模龐大，並且正在湧現許多新業務，Antalpha 的營收實現了兩位數的成長，而加密貨幣市場也必將得到更廣泛的應用。

With the passing of the Genius Act, other policy tailwinds, and the US leading the crypto industry, a tsunami of real world assets or RWAs are set to enter the massive crypto market for new customers. During an October 14 interview on CNBC, Black Rock CEO, Larry Fink said, the financial industry is at the beginning of the tokenization of all assets.

隨著《天才法案》的通過、其他政策利好以及美國在加密貨幣行業的領先地位，大量現實世界資產（RWA）即將湧入龐大的加密貨幣市場，為新客戶提供服務。10 月 14 日，貝萊德執行長拉里·芬克在接受 CNBC 採訪時表示，金融業正處於所有資產代幣化的開端。

One must think about the opportunity cost of not participating in the crypto market as a business or an investor at this stage of development. The crypto market has a market capitalization hovering between $3.5 trillion to $4 trillion. To put in perspective, this is about the size of Japan's or the UK's annual GDP.

在現階段的發展中，無論是作為企業或投資者，都必須考慮不參與加密貨幣市場的機會成本。加密貨幣市場的總市值在 3.5 兆美元到 4 兆美元之間。換個角度來看，這大約相當於日本或英國的年度GDP。

Antalpha is quite unique in that we are benefiting from the development of the crypto market by financing the Bitcoin mining infrastructure and its adjacent industries. In a way, our business is tied to the economics of compute, energy and collateral-based financing, which are familiar to traditional finance.

Antalpha 的獨特之處在於，我們透過為比特幣挖礦基礎設施及其相關產業提供資金，從加密貨幣市場的發展中受益。從某種意義上說，我們的業務與計算、能源和抵押融資的經濟息息相關，而這些正是傳統金融所熟悉的。

Turning to new growth curves. With the large growing crypto market, Antalpha is presented with new lending scenarios. For example, in early October, we provided a $206 million bridge loan to Nakamoto to serve their digital asset treasury, also known as DAT.

轉向新的成長曲線。隨著加密貨幣市場的快速成長，Antalpha 面臨新的借貸場景。例如，10 月初，我們向 Nakamoto 提供了 2.06 億美元的過渡貸款，用於支援他們的數位資產庫（也稱為 DAT）。

DAT's generate value by continuously financing with leverage and purchase their DAT asset to outperform their respective crypto index on a share -- on a per share basis. That financing is merging as a new segment for crypto lending. Antalpha's priority growth drivers -- growth strategies are globalization and Antalpha RWA hub.

DAT 透過不斷利用槓桿融資來創造價值，並購買其 DAT 資產，以每股收益超越其各自的加密貨幣指數。這種融資方式正在融合成為加密貨幣借貸的一個新領域。Antalpha 的優先成長驅動因素－成長策略是全球化和 Antalpha RWA 中心。

On the prior, we are making progress in our entry into the US building up our team and infrastructure. We will provide more updates when we reach new milestones. On the latter, in collaboration with Tether, we launched an Antalpha RWA hub at the end of September to provide institutions with broad access to Tether Gold to improve financial stability on their crypto holding.

在前一方面，我們在進入美國市場方面取得了進展，我們正在組建團隊並完善基礎設施。我們將在達到新的里程碑時提供更多更新資訊。在後者方面，我們與 Tether 合作，於 9 月底推出了 Antalpha RWA 中心，旨在為該機構提供廣泛的 Tether Gold 存取權限，以提高其加密貨幣持有的財務穩定性。

Global globalization and RWA hub are two very sizable opportunities. These are strategic priorities for us that will require investments and we believe in time will develop into significant new growth curves for Antalpha.

全球一體化和RWA中心是兩個非常大的機會。這些是我們的策略重點，需要投資，我們相信隨著時間的推移，它們將為 Antalpha 帶來顯著的新成長曲線。

Let me talk a little bit about the importance of tokenized gold in the crypto economy. In September, Morgan Stanley CIO, Mike Wilson stated that he favors a 60:20:20 portfolio strategy that includes 20% in gold, over the old investment adage of 60/40 between equity and bond.

讓我來談談代幣化黃金在加密經濟中的重要性。9 月，摩根士丹利首席投資長麥克威爾森表示，他更傾向於採用 60:20:20 的投資組合策略，其中包含 20% 的黃金，而不是沿用 60/40 的股票和債券投資傳統。

Wilson's rationale is that gold is both an inflation hedge and a safe haven when real rates fall. According to Coinmarketcap, the size of USDT plus USDC is approximately $250 billion and tokenized gold today is about $2 billion market.

威爾遜的理由是，黃金既是對沖通貨膨脹的工具，也是實際利率下降時的避險資產。根據 Coinmarketcap 數據顯示，USDT 加 USDC 的市場規模約為 2,500 億美元，而目前代幣化黃金的市場規模約為 20 億美元。

Gold market cap is about 80% of the size of US Treasuries at $23.5 trillion. Assuming gold to treasuries on chain will be at the same ratio as real world assets, tokenized gold stands to grow 1 hundredfold when people see it as a safe haven for stable coin.

黃金市值約為美國公債市值的 80%，為 23.5 兆美元。假設鏈上黃金與國庫券的比例與現實世界資產的比例相同，當人們將其視為穩定幣的避險資產時，代幣化黃金可望增長百倍。

At the other end of the spectrum, when Antalpha -- where Antalpha customers sit. We have seen Bitcoin's value rise significantly over the past decade, and in between, Bitcoin has been volatile. For example, since the beginning of 2023, Bitcoin has sold off more than 20% on seven separate occasions, and thus holding tokenized gold in one's collateral pool would allow institutional borrowers of crypto loans to better meet cash flow needs and sudden market shocks and crypto winners.

另一方面，當 Antalpha 處於 Antalpha 客戶所在的位置。過去十年間，我們看到比特幣的價值大幅上漲，但在此期間，比特幣的價格也波動較大。例如，自 2023 年初以來，比特幣曾七次下跌超過 20%，因此，在抵押池中持有代幣化黃金可以讓加密貨幣貸款的機構借款人更好地滿足現金流需求和應對突發的市場衝擊以及加密貨幣的贏家。

Turning to Tether gold DAT. As a tech lending platform, we are seeing tremendous opportunities for crypto collateralized loans. Our lending scenarios can further broaden if we increase the supply of funding. Incubating a Tether gold DAT, not only helps Antalpha secure more funding, it can also increase the resiliency of our balance sheet against macro conditions.

轉向 Tether 黃金 DAT。作為一家科技借貸平台，我們看到了加密貨幣抵押貸款的巨大機會。如果我們增加資金供應，我們的貸款方案可以進一步拓寬。孵化 Tether 黃金 DAT 不僅有助於 Antalpha 獲得更多資金，還可以增強我們資產負債表對宏觀環境的適應能力。

On October 10, we completed the acquisition of prestige wealth which will be renamed Aurelion. The NASDAQ ticker is AURE. This is a pivotal milestone in Antalpha's Treasury strategy. Through this transaction, Antalpha invested $43 million in Aurelion and anchored its $100 million pipe, allowing Aurelion to be the first listed Tether Gold RWA focused company on the NASDAQ.

10月10日，我們完成了對聲望財富的收購，並將該財富更名為奧瑞利安。納斯達克股票代碼為 AURE。這是 Antalpha 財務策略中的一個重要里程碑。透過此交易，Antalpha 向 Aurelion 投資了 4,300 萬美元，並為其 1 億美元的投資計畫奠定了基礎，使 Aurelion 成為納斯達克首家專注於 Tether Gold RWA 的上市公司。

Based on Aurelion's last Friday's closing price of $0.40 per share, Antalpha position in is valued at approximately $48 million. Antalpha holds a 32% equity interest and 73% voting right in Aurelion.

根據 Aurelion 上週五每股 0.40 美元的收盤價計算，Antalpha 持有的 Aurelion 股份價值約為 4,800 萬美元。Antalpha 持有 Aurelion 32% 的股權和 73% 的投票權。

Tether also invested in Aurelion pipe for $15 million. What makes a DAT more appealing than an ETF, you may ask. Aurelion is leveraged gold, and it can generate yield by lending unsecured gold to Antalpha. A $100 million pipe bought Aurelion $134 million in Tether gold.

Tether 也向 Aurelion 管道投資了 1500 萬美元。你可能會問，DAT 比 ETF 更具吸引力在哪裡？Aurelion 是一種槓桿金，它可以透過向 Antalpha 提供無擔保黃金貸款來產生收益。一條價值 1 億美元的管道為 Aurelion 換來了價值 1.34 億美元的 Tether 黃金。

Other benefits may include more favorable tax treatment. Most gold ETFs are set up as a grantor trust whose taxable status as collectibles is taxed at 28% on long-term capital gain, whereas long-term gain on equity is usually taxed at 20%.

其他好處可能包括更優惠的稅收待遇。大多數黃金 ETF 都是以委託人信託的形式設立的，其作為收藏品的應稅地位，長期資本收益按 28% 的稅率徵稅，而股票的長期收益通常按 20% 的稅率徵稅。

Aurelion has a focused mandate to raise funds repeatedly to buy gold with an internal goal to become a $10 billion DAT over time. By increasing funding supply, Antalpha can grow to be many times our current size. Antalpha Prime lending platform can be fine-tuned to perform risk management well beyond financing Bitcoin mining, such as financing DATs, Ethereum, and XAUT collateralized loans, and also can be fine-tuned for adjacent industries such as inference compute, thereby significantly expanding Antalpha’s TAM.

Aurelion 的明確使命是不斷籌集資金購買黃金，其內部目標是最終成為一家市值 100 億美元的 DAT。透過增加資金投入，Antalpha 的規模可以成長到目前的數倍。Antalpha Prime 借貸平台可以微調，以執行遠超比特幣挖礦融資的風險管理，例如為 DAT、以太坊和 XAUT 抵押貸款提供融資，還可以針對推理計算等相鄰行業進行微調，從而顯著擴大 Antalpha 的潛在市場規模。

With that, I will now turn over to our Chief Financial Officer, Paul Liang, to discuss our financial results in more detail.

接下來，我將把發言權交給我們的財務長梁保羅，讓他更詳細地討論一下我們的財務表現。

Thank you, Herman, and hello, everyone. Antalpha delivers a strong quarter of financial performance in Q3. Highlighted by solid revenue growth, margin expansion, and strong operational execution. Let me quickly walk you through the key financial highlights, which are all on a year-over-year comparison basis.

謝謝你，赫爾曼，大家好。Antalpha 第三季財務業績表現強勁。業績亮點包括穩健的營收成長、利潤率擴張和強勁的營運執行。讓我快速帶您了解主要的財務亮點，所有數據均以年比為基礎。

Total revenue reached $21.1 million, up 62% year-over-year, making our third consecutive quarter of acceleration. Tech financing fee on supply chain loans reached $15.6 million, up 51% year-over-year driven by strong hash rate long growth. We financed 77.1 exa hash rate capacity at the end of Q3.

總營收達到 2,110 萬美元，年增 62%，連續第三個季度實現加速成長。受強勁的哈希率長期成長推動，供應鏈​​貸款的技術融資費用達到 1,560 萬美元，年增 51%。我們在第三季末獲得了 77.1 exa 哈希率容量的融資。

The mining sector remain active, and our financing solutions help clients scale capacity in a disciplined and capital efficient way. Platform fee or margin loans also perform very strong roughly doubling year-over-year to $5.5 million.

採礦業依然活躍，我們的融資方案可以幫助客戶以嚴謹且資本高效的方式擴大產能。平台費或保證金貸款也表現非常強勁，年增約一倍，達到 550 萬美元。

Margin loans tend to be -- to do better when we have a period of relatively higher Bitcoin prices, as we saw in Q3. Total loans facilitated on Antalpha Prime reached $2.4 billion, up 60% year-over-year, driven by a new client wins and increased loan amount from existing clients.

保證金貸款往往在比特幣價格相對較高的時期表現得更好，正如我們在第三季度看到的那樣。Antalpha Prime促成的貸款總額達到24億美元，年增60%，這主要得益於新客戶的加入以及現有客戶貸款金額的增加。

The continual expansion of TVL or total value of loan demonstrates the stickiness of our client relationships and the scalability of our technology platform. The number of institutional clients increased 28% year-over-year in Q3. And TVL per customer on a 12-month rolling basis increased 55% year-over-year as we focus on larger, high-quality clients.

TVL（貸款總價值）的持續成長顯示了我們客戶關係的強大性和我們技術平台的可擴展性。第三季機構客戶數量年增 28%。隨著我們專注於規模更大、品質更高的客戶，過去 12 個月滾動平均每位客戶的 TVL 年比增長了 55%。

Turning to funding costs. Funding costs on supply chain loan declined to 5.18%, down 29 basis points from a year ago. Net interest margin on margin loans improved 44 basis points to 1.63%. We also look at our top-line growth on the total net interest margin basis combining revenue recognized on both gross and net basis. Our total net interest margin grew 64% year-over-year in Q3, which is an indication of Antalpha's improved branding recognition and bargaining power.

接下來討論資金成本。供應鏈貸款的融資成本下降至 5.18%，比一年前下降了 29 個基點。保證金貸款淨利差改善 44 個基點至 1.63%。我們也檢視了總淨利差基礎上的收入成長情況，該成長情況結合了毛收入和淨收入。第三季度，我們的淨利差年增 64%，這表明 Antalpha 的品牌知名度和議價能力有所提高。

Turning to other operating expense. Operating expenses excluding funding costs were approximately $9 million, up 69% year-over-year. Technology and development expense increased $0.6 million or 52% year-over-year, primarily due to the increase of stock-based compensation and labor costs, including added accounts in risk management and prime platform development.

接下來討論其他營運費用。不包括融資成本的營運支出約為 900 萬美元，年增 69%。技術和開發費用年增 60 萬美元，增幅達 52%，主要原因是股票選擇權激勵和勞動成本增加，包括風險管理和主要平台開發的新增帳戶。

Sales and marketing expense increased $1.5 million or 137% year-over -year, primarily due to an increase in labor cost, stock-based compensation, and marketing events related to conference sponsorship and RWA hub development.

銷售和行銷費用年增 150 萬美元，增幅達 137%，主要原因是勞動力成本增加、股票選擇權激勵以及與會議贊助和 RWA 中心開發相關的行銷活動增加。

General and administrative expenses increased $1.4 million or 54% year-over-year, primarily due to the increase of labor costs, stand stock compensation, professional fees, and office lease. Profitability improved in the third quarter, with adjusted EBITDA margin reaching 40% in Q3, which includes $3.4 million in unrealized gain on Tether Gold Holdings and $1.1 million in non-operating income.

一般及行政費用年增 140 萬美元，增幅達 54%，主要原因是勞動成本、股票補償、專業費用和辦公室租賃費用的增加。第三季獲利能力有所改善，調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率在第三季達到 40%，其中包括 Tether Gold Holdings 的 340 萬美元未實現收益和 110 萬美元非經營性收入。

Excluding these non-recurring items, adjusted EBITDA margin would have been 19% in Q3 compared to 14% a year ago. Looking ahead, assuming stable market conditions, we expect fourth quarter revenue to range between $26 million and $28 million, representing another consecutive quarter of acceleration to between 94% to 109% growth year-over-year.

如果剔除這些非經常性項目，第三季的調整後 EBITDA 利潤率為 19%，而去年同期為 14%。展望未來，假設市場狀況穩定，我們預計第四季度營收將在 2,600 萬美元至 2,800 萬美元之間，這將標誌著連續第二季同比增長 94% 至 109%。

In summary, the third quarter demonstrated that Antalpha's model continues to scale profitability. We are leveraging our platform to drive sustainable revenue growth, expand margins, and strengthen our balance sheet. All while positioning the company for a long-term global expansion.

總而言之，第三季證明 Antalpha 的商業模式持續擴大獲利能力。我們正在利用我們的平台來推動可持續的收入成長，擴大利潤率，並增強我們的資產負債表。同時，公司也為長期的全球擴張做好準備。

And now I will return to Herman to conclude the call.

現在我將把電話轉回赫爾曼，結束通話。

Let me quickly recap today's call. Q3 was another strong quarter for Antalpha. A revenue growth continues to accelerate from the last two quarters. We are scaling with respectable profit margin, reflecting the scalability of our traditional fintech platform.

讓我快速回顧一下今天的電話會議。Antalpha 第三季又是強勁的季度。營收成長動能較前兩季持續加速。我們正以可觀的利潤率實現規模化發展，這反映了我們傳統金融科技平台的可擴展性。

New customer adds were strong. Average loan per customer significantly increased. The large burgeoning crypto market is providing us with new lending scenarios and our strong risk management capability along with Antalpha is equipped to meet these new lending scenarios.

新增客戶數量成長強勁。每位客戶的平均貸款額顯著增加。龐大而蓬勃發展的加密貨幣市場為我們提供了新的借貸場景，而我們強大的風險管理能力以及 Antalpha 團隊有能力應對這些新的借貸場景。

Despite the accelerating growth of our core Bitcoin mining financing business, we are investing to develop a second growth curve in globalization and Antalpha RWA hub. Antalpha anchored Aurelion's $100 million pipe to enable it to purchase $134 million in Tether Gold. Our internal mandate to grow Aurelion to a $10 billion Tether Gold DAT over time to increase collateral resilience and provide funding to new lending scenarios will significantly, that will significantly enlarge our tab.

儘管我們的核心比特幣挖礦融資業務正在加速成長，但我們正在投資發展全球化和 Antalpha RWA 中心的第二個成長曲線。Antalpha 為 Aurelion 的 1 億美元管道項目提供了資金，使其能夠購買價值 1.34 億美元的 Tether Gold。我們內部的目標是逐步將 Aurelion 發展成為規模達 100 億美元的 Tether Gold DAT，以提高抵押品的韌性並為新的貸款場景提供資金，這將顯著增加我們的支出。

With that, let me turn the mic back to the operator.

那麼，我把麥克風交還給操作員。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

Darren Alfahi, Roth.

Darren Alfahi，Roth。

Hi guys, good morning, good evening. Thanks for taking my questions and congrats on the progress. Just a couple if I may, in terms of the guide sort of the growth acceleration, is that fully coming from organic sources, set in other ways, is that kind of your core business, or is that, are there any assumptions of layer on anything from Aurelion into your financials?

大家好，早安，晚上好。感謝您解答我的問題，也祝賀您的進展。如果可以的話，我想問幾個問題。關於成長加速的指導，這種成長完全來自有機成長嗎？還是以其他方式實現的？這是你們的核心業務嗎？或者說，你們的財務報表中是否有任何來自 Aurelion 的因素？

And then I guess it's kind of a second part to that question, you mentioned a lot of different kind of growth avenues. One of them was DAT so I guess on the growth vectors. Your strength in your core business, could you maybe speak to geographic presence?

然後，我想這算是這個問題的第二部分，你提到了很多不同的成長途徑。其中之一是DAT，所以我猜是在成長向量上。您能否談談貴公司在核心業務方面的優勢，以及在地域佈局方面的優勢？

I know you talked on the IPO roadshow about penetrating the US is that kind of assumed in that or is it still organically most other parts of the world? And then what the impact of any kind of DAT financing as well as RWA would be helpful to understand. Thanks.

我知道您在IPO路演中談到了打入美國市場，這是不言而喻的，還是說您仍然在世界其他大部分地區穩步發展？那麼，了解任何類型的 DAT 融資以及 RWA 的影響將會很有幫助。謝謝。

Can you repeat your first question?

你能重複一下你的第一個問題嗎？

Yeah, the first question was really about is the fourth quarter guidance assuming any benefit from Aurelion or is that organically all Antalpha.

是的，第一個問題實際上是關於第四季度業績指引是否考慮了 Aurelion 的任何收益，還是全部來自 Antalpha 的自然成長。

Okay. Got it. First of all, we don't derive revenue from Aurelion. It's the other way around, right? When Aurelion raises capital -- it -- has gold, and then the idea is there are balance sheet, right? We -- through technology, we lend gold from them and that strengthen our balance sheet and we pay them a fee for that borrowing of gold. Okay, so it doesn't increase our revenue.

好的。知道了。首先，我們並非從 Aurelion 獲得收入。正好相反，對吧？當 Aurelion 籌集資金時——它——擁有黃金，然後就會有資產負債表，對吧？我們透過技術手段向他們借出黃金，這增強了我們的資產負債表，我們為此向他們支付借入黃金的費用。好吧，所以它不會增加我們的收入。

Point number 1. Point number 2 is our growth, guidance into Q4. Guidance into Q4 is the current pipeline that we have. We are experimenting other loan amount -- other loan scenarios we talked about previously. I don't think any of those are material to our current numbers. I think most of it would be what we have historically the Bitcoin mining.

第一點。第二點是我們的成長情況，以及對第四季的展望。第四季業績指引是基於我們目前的專案儲備。我們正在嘗試其他貸款金額——也就是我們之前討論過的其他貸款方案。我認為這些都與我們目前的數字無關。我認為大部分原因都和我們歷史上看到的比特幣挖礦有關。

Point number 1. Point number 2 is in terms of regional expansion, as we said in the prepare call, we are hiring, we are building the infrastructure in the US. Currently, the amount of revenue that we're guiding, it may or may not have revenue from the US, even if it does, we don't think initially it's going to be material. I think a lot of that's going to come next year when our overall infrastructure is more prepared.

第一點。第二點是關於區域擴張，正如我們在準備電話會議中所說，我們正在招聘，我們正在美國建立基礎設施。目前，我們預測的收入金額可能包含或不包含來自美國的收入，即使包含，我們認為最初也不會產生實質影響。我認為很多事情將在明年實現，屆時我們的整體基礎設施將會更加完善。

Got it. And if I could just squeeze one more in, I think you talked in the release about pricing power in the business maybe if you could just expand a little bit more on that. Thank you.

知道了。如果我能再擠出一點時間，我想您在新聞稿中談到了企業的定價權，也許您能再詳細闡述這一點。謝謝。

Yeah, I mean, typically, when you look at the Fed decreasing interest rate, since last September, I think they made three adjustments. You would expect that our fees, tech fees would be lower and so forth. We've been pretty good at holding up to that tech fee at the same time, when you look at the cost of financing that we have as Paul mentioned, that went down a little bit.

是的，我的意思是，通常情況下，當你觀察聯準會降低利率的情況時，我認為自去年9月以來，他們進行了三次調整。你可能會認為我們的費用、技術費用等等都會更低。我們一直很好地控制著技術費用，同時，正如保羅所提到的，我們的融資成本也略有下降。

So overall, I think it's the branding power that we've had since taking public, that being listed in the US, I think that helps the scale that we've become that helps. So I think all of that, taken together, it's making our margins better than last year.

所以總的來說，我認為我們上市以來所擁有的品牌影響力，以及在美國上市所帶來的規模優勢，都對我們取得今天的成就起到了很大的幫助。所以我覺得，綜合所有這些因素，我們的利潤率都比去年好。

Appreciate it, Herman.

謝謝你，赫爾曼。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

Harold Goetsch, B Riley Securities.

Harold Goetsch，B Riley Securities。

Hey, good morning, gentlemen. Thanks for your time today on the call. Just wanted to ask about the net interest margin at 1.63%, I think here in the quarter. What would you say is maybe the proper range on that? Can it -- is there -- is it limited? Can it get to the 2% level? Because I -- when I review other lenders on doing research like it appears you're the low cost producer. You're clearly some of the lowest rates from what I see. And my next question is, Herman, you mentioned, the average loan per customer is off. Can you generally give us what that level is, or is that something you don't want to disclose look. Thank you.

嘿，先生們，早安。感謝您今天抽空參加電話會議。我想問一下本季淨利差為 1.63% 的情況。你認為合適的範圍大概是多少？它能做到嗎？它存在嗎？它有限制嗎？能達到2%的水準嗎？因為我——當我查看其他貸款機構並進行調查時，發現你們似乎是低成本的貸款機構。從我所見，你們的費率顯然是最低的費率之一。赫爾曼，我的下一個問題是，你提到過，每位客戶的平均貸款額度有誤。您能否大致告訴我們這個水平是多少，還是您不想透露這個訊息？謝謝。

Yeah, I'll take the first one and then Paul can take the second one on our average loan amount. The first one, I think you're talking about two different items, right? One is the cost of funding. 5.18% is our cost of funding. I think last time we talked about last quarter, I recall our cost of funding was 5.45%. we've lowered this due to our negotiation.

是的，我先拿第一個，然後保羅可以拿第二個，貸款金額以我們平均貸款額度計算。首先，我想你說的應該是兩個不同的項目，對吧？一是資金成本。我們的資金成本為5.18%。我記得上次我們討論上個季度的時候，我們的融資成本是5.45%。經過談判，我們已經降低了這個比例。

And then, net interest margin is the difference between what we charge and the cost of funding that we have. So the net interest margin for both machine loans and then also for hash rate loans have been improving and that's the pricing power that we talked about historically.

然後，淨利差是我們收取的費用與我們的融資成本之間的差額。因此，機器貸款和算力貸款的淨利差都在改善，這就是我們過去所說的定價能力。

With regards to further increase in net interest margin, I think it just as we have built this over last year. I think it -- we have the opportunity to make it bigger, but I think -- for example, if we can come into the US, I think it probably gives us more opportunity. So I think over time as our brand, scales, as people trust us more and so forth I think there's an opportunity for that to be able to grow more.

至於淨利差的進一步提高，我認為就像我們去年所做的那樣。我認為——我們有機會把它做得更大，但我認為——例如，如果我們能進入美國市場，我認為這可能會為我們帶來更多機會。所以我認為，隨著時間的推移，隨著我們品牌的規模擴大，隨著人們對我們的信任度提高等等，我認為這將有機會實現更大的成長。

The other way you also want to look at it is net interest margin is on a per product line basis. So for example, net interest margin for machines are much higher than for hashrate loan because machines are less liquid. So on a product level dimension, we are growing year-over-year but when you're looking at the whole P&L just got to factor in that -- there's a net interest margin by different product loans because they have different risks.

另一種看待這個問題的方式是，淨利差是按產品線計算的。例如，機器的淨利差遠高於算力貸款，因為機器的流動性較差。因此，從產品層面來看，我們實現了年成長，但當你查看整個損益表時，就必須考慮到這一點——不同產品貸款的淨利差不同，因為它們的風險也不同。

Thank you, yeah.

謝謝，是的。

Great.

偉大的。

Yeah. I think regarding the average loan amount and we do see an increase year-over-year both in supply chain loan and also margin loan. And currently the average loan amount per customer for supply chain loan is roughly $32 million. And then for margin loan it's roughly $47 million. Both of them are growing at over 50% year-over-year. So that's the roughly average size of our -- the loan amount for the customers. And on top of that, our clients or customer numbers also grow over on a year-over-year basis.

是的。我認為就平均貸款金額而言，我們看到供應鏈貸款和保證金貸款都逐年增長。目前，供應鏈貸款的平均每位客戶貸款金額約為 3,200 萬美元。而保證金貸款則約為 4,700 萬美元。它們的年增長率均超過 50%。所以，這大致上就是我們客戶貸款金額的平均規模。除此之外，我們的客戶數量也逐年增加。

Okay. If I ask one Paul, can you maybe give the total number of customers as of quarter end in each segment? Is that possible? Because that was -- you did disclose that in your -- yeah.

好的。如果我問保羅，你能否提供一下截至季度末各細分市場的客戶總數？這可能嗎？因為那是──你確實在你的──是的。

Sure, sure. Roughly I think for supply chain loan is close to 50. And for margin loan is a little bit above 40 at that level and in total it's the number.

當然，當然。我認為供應鏈貸款的大致金額接近 50。而保證金貸款在這個水準上略高於 40，總數字就是這個金額。

Yeah, I think the way to look at it is the net because I don't think it makes sense to break out the customers by product line because one customer might have multiple products.

是的，我認為應該從整體來看，因為按產品線細分客戶沒有意義，因為一個客戶可能擁有多種產品。

Okay. So got you.

好的。抓到你了。

So you're overlapping. So my suggestion is when you look at the whole. So at the whole we're at approximately 80. Otherwise you'll be adding in there -- how do you add it to a person, yeah.

所以你們的工作內容重疊了。所以我的建議是，當你從整體來看問題時。所以總共大約是 80。否則你就會把它加到那裡——你怎麼把它加到一個人身上呢，是啊。

Got you. Alright. Thanks, guys. Good quarter. Thank you very much.

抓到你了。好吧。謝謝各位。本季表現不錯。非常感謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Daniel Mullane, HC Wainright.

Daniel Mullane，HC Wainright。

Hi, thank you. Daniel Mullane here for Kevin Dede. Herman, I was just curious moving forward with many DATs trading at a discounted NAV, could you see an influx of -- maybe new customers if they were to acquire financing from you guys and then later on buy back their own stock. Second part would just be any general thoughts or color on rig demand that you're seeing in the last month or two. Thank you.

您好，謝謝。丹尼爾·穆蘭 (Daniel Mullane) 代表凱文·德德 (Kevin Dede)。Herman，我只是好奇，鑑於許多 DAT 的淨資產值都低於市場價，如果他們從你們這裡獲得融資，然後再回購自己的股票，您是否能看到新客戶的湧入？第二部分可以談談你最近一兩個月對鑽井平台需求的整體看法或看法。謝謝。

So first of all, when we make these type of loans they're all over collateralized loans. So we don't look at how they're trying to manage their treasury strategy but we look at it more from our risk management perspective.

首先，我們發放的這類貸款都是房貸。因此，我們不關注他們如何管理財務策略，而是從風險管理的角度來看待這個問題。

So I don't have too much insight into each of these companies, how they're managing their treasury strategies. But I do think that as long as they do have their cryptos available to be secured, then that's where we go in.

所以我對這些公司各自的財務管理策略並沒有太多了解。但我認為，只要他們有加密貨幣可供安全保管，那就是我們介入的地方。

Okay. And any more color on I guess rig demand more generally?

好的。關於鑽井平台的整體需求，還有什麼其他資訊嗎？

.

。

Yeah. So at the beginning of the year, we held off on a lot of these machine loans because the volatility of BTC prices. It has been pretty stable from the beginning of the year, over $100,000. And when you look at the machine models, you have the S23 coming out and then you had X21 XP that came out at the beginning of the year.

是的。所以在年初，由於比特幣價格波動，我們暫停了許多這類機器貸款。從年初至今相當穩定，超過 10 萬美元。從機器型號來看，有即將推出的 S23，還有年初推出的 X21 XP。

So typically when these things happen, the new models come out, you give it a few quarters, that's where our financing would take off. So I would expect in the next quarter or two that machine loans will pick up on the assumption that BTC prices stay stable.

所以通常情況下，當這類事情發生時，新車型上市，過幾個季度，我們的融資就會開始起飛。因此，我預計在未來一兩個季度內，如果比特幣價格保持穩定，機器貸款將會回升。

Alright. Thank you.

好吧。謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you for the question. That concludes the question-and-answer period. Thank you again for joining our call today. You may now disconnect.

謝謝你的提問。問答環節到此結束。再次感謝您今天參加我們的電話會議。您現在可以斷開連線了。