愛依斯電力 (AES) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining The AES Corporation's Q3 2025 financial review call. My name is Claire, and I will be coordinating your call today. (Operator Instructions) I will now hand over to Susan Harcourt, Vice President of Investor Relations from AES to begin. Please go ahead.

大家好，感謝各位參加AES公司2025年第三季財務回顧電話會議。我叫克萊爾，今天將由我來協調您的通話。（操作員指示）現在我將把發言權交給AES的投資者關係副總裁Susan Harcourt，由她開始。請繼續。

Thank you, operator. Good morning, and welcome to our Third Quarter 2025 financial review call. Our press release, presentation and related financial information are available on our website at aes.com. Today, we will be making forward-looking statements. There are many factors that may cause future results to differ materially from these statements, which are disclosed in our most recent 10-K and 10-Q filed with the SEC.

謝謝接線生。早上好，歡迎參加我們2025年第三季財務回顧電話會議。我們的新聞稿、簡報及相關財務資訊可在我們的網站 aes.com 上查閱。今天，我們將發表一些前瞻性聲明。有許多因素可能導致未來的業績與這些聲明有重大差異，這些因素已在我們最近向美國證券交易委員會提交的 10-K 和 10-Q 文件中揭露。

Reconciliations between GAAP and non-GAAP financial measures can be found on our website along with the presentation. Joining me this morning are Andres Gluski, our President and Chief Executive Officer; Steve Coughlin, our Chief Financial Officer; Ricardo Falu, our Chief Operating Officer; and other senior members of our management team. With that, I will turn the call over to Andres.

GAAP 和非 GAAP 財務指標之間的調整表以及簡報可在我們的網站上找到。今天早上和我一起出席的有：我們的總裁兼執行長安德烈斯·格魯斯基；我們的財務長史蒂夫·考夫林；我們的營運長里卡多·法魯；以及我們管理團隊的其他高級成員。接下來，我將把電話交給安德烈斯。

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining our third quarter 2025 financial review call. Today, I will address our year-to-date progress on our financial and strategic objectives, and speak to key development in our renewables and utility businesses. Following my remarks, Steve Coughlin, our CFO, will further discuss our financial performance and outlook. First, I am pleased to reaffirm our full year 2025 guidance and long-term growth rates, including adjusted EBITDA, adjusted EPS and parent free cash flow. We are executing according to our plan, and we are well positioned going into 2026.

各位早安，感謝各位參加我們2025年第三季財務回顧電話會議。今天，我將介紹我們今年迄今在財務和策略目標方面取得的進展，並談談我們在再生能源和公用事業業務方面的關鍵發展。在我發言之後，我們的財務長史蒂夫·考夫林將進一步討論我們的財務表現和前景。首先，我很高興重申我們對 2025 年全年業績的預期和長期成長率，包括調整後的 EBITDA、調整後的每股盈餘和母公司自由現金流。我們正按計劃執行，並且已經為2026年做好了充分準備。

We remain fully on track with our credit ratings and have received credit opinions from all three major agencies confirming our investment-grade rating with stable outlook, including from Moody's in September. Second, we are confident that we will sign 4 gigawatts of new PPAs this year, as we deliver the energy solutions that our customers need at attractive returns.

我們的信用評等仍然完全符合預期，並且已經收到三大評等機構的信用意見，確認了我們的投資等級評等和穩定的展望，其中包括穆迪在9月份的評等。其次，我們有信心今年將簽署 4 吉瓦的新購電協議，因為我們將以具有吸引力的回報為客戶提供所需的能源解決方案。

Year-to-date, we have signed 2.2 gigawatts and expect to sign at least an additional 1.8 gigawatts before the end of the year as we are in advanced negotiations on several large projects. Similarly, we're on schedule to complete 3.2 gigawatts of construction projects this year with 2.9 gigawatts already completed year-to-date. An additional 4.8 gigawatts of our 11.1 gigawatt backlog is under construction and expected to be completed through 2027.

今年迄今為止，我們已經簽署了 2.2 吉瓦的合同，並且由於我們正在就幾個大型項目進行深入談判，預計在年底前至少還會簽署 1.8 吉瓦的合同。同樣，我們今年將按計劃完成 3.2 吉瓦的建設項目，其中今年迄今已完成 2.9 吉瓦。我們11.1吉瓦的積壓工程中，另有4.8吉瓦正在興建中，預計2027年完成。

We're also repowering the 1.2 gigawatts of natural gas at AES Indiana, which is scheduled to be operational next year. This significant construction program provides clear line of sight to EBITDA growth through our guidance period and beyond. Turning to slide 5. We have seen a 46% increase in our renewables EBITDA year-to-date, driven primarily from the organic growth of new projects coming online and the maturing of our US renewables businesses.

我們也正在對 AES 印第安納州的 1.2 吉瓦天然氣發電廠進行改造，該發電廠計劃於明年投入營運。這項重大建設項目為我們預期期限及以後的 EBITDA 成長提供了清晰的前景。翻到第5張投影片。今年迄今為止，我們的再生能源 EBITDA 成長了 46%，這主要得益於新專案上線帶來的內生成長以及我們美國再生能源業務的成熟。

By year-end, the installed capacity of our US business will be almost 60% larger than it was just two years ago. We are seeing projects with higher returns come online as we benefit from substantial economies of scale in purchasing, construction and operation. These benefits are particularly evident as the average size of our projects has increased by over 50% over the past five years. Turning to slide 6.

到今年年底，我們美國業務的裝置容量將比兩年前成長近 60%。隨著我們在採購、建造和營運方面獲得顯著的規模經濟效益，我們看到一些回報率更高的專案陸續上線。過去五年，我們專案的平均規模成長了 50% 以上，這些優勢就更加明顯了。翻到第6張投影片。

We're also benefiting from the completion of projects serving data centers that we have signed over the last few years. Of 8.2 gigawatts, 4.2 gigawatts are in operation, and 4 gigawatts are in our backlog. Nearly half of these remaining 4 gigawatts are under construction and will be added to our fleet in the next 18 months.

我們也受惠於過去幾年簽署的資料中心服務項目的完成。總裝置容量為 8.2 吉瓦，其中 4.2 吉瓦已投入運營，4 吉瓦處於待建狀態。剩餘的 4 吉瓦電力中，近一半正在建設中，將在未來 18 個月內添加到我們的發電系統中。

Additionally, and leveraging on our development capabilities, this quarter, we signed a development transfer agreement, or DTA with a large data center customer to provide them with powered land for a data center site adjacent to two of our power projects. In the past, we have signed DTAs with utility customers to develop and transfer power prices. But this is our first involving the transfer of a data center site. We will provide more details on this powered land solution in the future as we continue completing milestones and are ready to announce it with the customer. Moving to slide 7.

此外，憑藉我們的開發能力，本季我們與一家大型資料中心客戶簽署了開發轉讓協議（DTA），為他們提供位於我們兩個電力專案旁的帶電土地，用於建造資料中心。過去，我們曾與電力客戶簽訂分散式交易協議，以製定和轉讓電力價格。但這是我們首次涉及資料中心站點的遷移。未來，隨著我們不斷完成各項里程碑，並準備好與客戶共同宣布，我們將提供更多關於這項陸地動力解決方案的細節。切換到第7張投影片。

We continue to see very strong demand across the sector with our customers overwhelmingly focused on time to power. Given the overall scarcity of ready-to-build projects, AES is well positioned to meet the urgent need for energy due to our advanced pipeline of development projects, robust domestic supply chain with no FERC exposure and secured tax credit position. As a reminder, our 7.5-gigawatt US backlog is entirely safe harbor. And in our pipeline, we have an additional 4 gigawatts with safe harbor protections.

我們看到整個產業的需求依然非常強勁，我們的客戶普遍關注的是供電速度。鑑於可立即開工的項目整體稀缺，AES 憑藉其先進的開發項目儲備、強大的國內供應鏈（不受聯邦能源監管委員會監管）以及有保障的稅收抵免地位，完全有能力滿足迫切的能源需求。再次提醒，我們在美國積壓的 7.5 吉瓦專案完全安全。此外，我們還有 4 吉瓦的裝置容量，並受到安全港保護。

We also have line of sight to safe harbor an additional 3 to 4 gigawatts before July 4, 2026, enabling us to bring online projects with tax credits through 2030. As we move toward the end of the decade, our safe harbor projects that qualify for tax credits will give us a growing competitive advantage. This will help us serve our customers with reliable and low-cost power. Moving to our US utilities, beginning on slide 8.

我們也預計在 2026 年 7 月 4 日之前安全港額外增加 3 至 4 吉瓦的裝置容量，使我們能夠利用稅收抵免將項目上線至 2030 年。隨著十年即將結束，我們符合稅收抵免條件的「安全港」計畫將為我們帶來越來越大的競爭優勢。這將有助於我們為客戶提供可靠且低成本的電力。接下來，我們將介紹美國的公用事業，從第 8 張投影片開始。

We are focused on our core mission of serving our customers with affordable and reliable power as we address the increased demand that we are seeing in our service territories. Across Indiana and Ohio, we're among the lowest cost providers in each state, a position we expect to maintain following the resolution of our active rate cases. Turning to Indiana on slide 9. Earlier this year, we filed for a rate review with the Indiana Utility Regulatory Commission. This rate case represents our first using a forward-looking test year, bringing us in line with the rest of the electric utilities in Indiana.

我們專注於為客戶提供價格合理、可靠的電力這一核心使命，以滿足我們服務區域內日益增長的電力需求。在印第安納州和俄亥俄州，我們是兩州成本最低的供應商之一，我們預計在當前費率案件解決後，這一地位仍將保持下去。第九張投影片將介紹印第安納州。今年早些時候，我們向印第安納州公用事業監管委員會提交了費率審查申請。本次費率調整是我們首次採用前瞻性測試年，使我們與印第安納州其他電力公司保持一致。

We are committed to maintaining bill affordability, and we have been disciplined in holding our operations and maintenance costs flat for the last five years. As such, our rate increase request is less than the cumulative impact of inflation since our last rate adjustment.

我們致力於保持帳單價格的合理性，並且在過去五年中一直嚴格控制營運和維護成本。因此，我們提出的升息要求低於自上次利率調整以來通貨膨脹的累積影響。

I am pleased to report that in October, we filed a partial settlement agreement which included parties such as the City of Indianapolis. We expect the final order in Q2 of next year. We still expect our residential rates to be at least 15% lower than the average rates in the state. Furthermore, we're making excellent progress on our generation program at AES Indiana, which includes the construction of new facilities to replace aging infrastructure and improve system reliability. Earlier this year, we brought online a 200-megawatt Pike County project, the largest energy storage facility in MISO, and we're on track to complete an additional 295 megawatts of new capacity by the end of this year.

我很高興地報告，10 月我們提交了一份部分和解協議，其中包括印第安納波利斯市等各方。我們預計將於明年第二季收到最終訂單。我們仍然預計我們的住宅稅率將比全州平均稅率低至少 15%。此外，我們在 AES 印第安納州的發電項目也取得了顯著進展，其中包括建造新設施以取代老化的基礎設施並提高系統可靠性。今年早些時候，我們啟動了位於派克縣的 200 兆瓦項目，這是 MISO 最大的儲能設施，我們預計在今年年底前完成另外 295 兆瓦的新容量。

Moving to slide 10. Last week, we filed our integrated resource plan with IURC, laying out a 20-year outlook and short-term action plan for our generation portfolio. Our IRP submission evaluated scenarios with and without new data center load as we see the potential for significant new demand in our service territory, with new load coming online towards the end of the decade. As we work with data center customers, we are committed to ensuring that new load will lower cost for all existing customers as we spread fixed costs across a larger customer base. We will announce these arrangements with more specificity in due course.

切換到第10張投影片。上週，我們向印第安納州公用事業監管委員會 (IURC) 提交了綜合資源計劃，其中列出了我們發電組合的 20 年展望和短期行動計劃。我們的 IRP 提交方案評估了有和沒有新增資料中心負載的各種情況，因為我們看到我們的服務區域內存在著巨大的新需求，新的負載將在本十年末期上線。在與資料中心客戶合作的過程中，我們致力於確保新增負載能夠降低所有現有客戶的成本，因為我們將固定成本分攤到更大的客戶群中。我們將在適當時候公佈這些安排的具體細節。

Turning to AES Ohio on slide 11, where we have 2.1 gigawatts of signed data center agreement and expect more to come. I should note that in Ohio, our data center-related investments are for transmission and are supported by FERC formula rates with no regulatory lag. By 2027, we expect transmission to represent 40% of our total rate base. We are now also in the final stages of our distribution rate review. Since our last call, we filed a unanimous settlement, including all customer classes and PUCO staff.

翻到第 11 頁投影片，我們來看看 AES Ohio，那裡已經簽署了 2.1 吉瓦的資料中心協議，預計未來還會有更多協議簽署。需要指出的是，在俄亥俄州，我們與資料中心相關的投資用於輸電，並由聯邦能源監管委員會 (FERC) 的公式費率提供支持，沒有監管滯後。預計到 2027 年，輸電業務將占我們總費率基數的 40%。我們現在也處於配電費率審查的最後階段。自上次通話以來，我們提交了一份一致通過的和解協議，其中包括所有客戶類別和PUCO員工。

The settlement includes an annual revenue increase of approximately $168 million and an ROE of nearly 10%. We expect to have our final order in the very near future with rates effective as early as this month. Looking ahead, we plan to file our next rate review next week as we work towards the transition in Ohio's regulatory framework away from the existing ESP model. In this filing, we will be using forward-looking test years from 2027 to 2029 as we seek to further optimize our current rate structure and reduce regulatory lag. With that, I would now like to turn the call over to our CFO, Steve Coughlin.

和解協議包括每年增加約 1.68 億美元的收入和近 10% 的淨資產收益率。我們預計在不久的將來就能收到最終訂單，價格最快將於本月生效。展望未來，我們計劃下週提交下一份費率審查報告，因為我們正在努力推動俄亥俄州監管框架從現有的 ESP 模式過渡。在這份文件中，我們將使用 2027 年至 2029 年的前瞻性測試年份，以進一步優化我們目前的費率結構並減少監管滯後。接下來，我想把電話交給我們的財務長史蒂夫‧考夫林。

Thank you, Andres, and good morning, everyone. Today, I will discuss our third quarter results in our 2025 guidance and parent capital allocation. First, turning to adjusted EBITDA on slide 13. Third quarter adjusted EBITDA was $830 million versus $698 million a year ago. This was driven by significant growth from new renewables projects, rate-based investment at our US utilities, and continued progress on our cost savings program announced on the fourth quarter call.

謝謝你，安德烈斯，大家早安。今天，我將討論我們2025年業績指引和母公司資本配置的第三季業績。首先，我們來看第 13 頁的調整後 EBITDA。第三季調整後 EBITDA 為 8.3 億美元，去年同期為 6.98 億美元。這主要得益於新的再生能源項目的顯著增長、美國公用事業公司基於費率的投資，以及我們在第四季度電話會議上宣布的成本節約計劃的持續進展。

We have already realized the majority of the $150 million in cost savings for this year, and we are on track to achieve a $300 million annual run rate in 2026. These drivers were partially offset by the sale of AES Brazil and the sell-downs of AES Ohio and our Global Insurance business. Turning to slide 14. Adjusted EPS increased to $0.75 per share versus $0.71 in the prior year.

今年我們已經實現了 1.5 億美元成本節約的大部分，並且我們預計在 2026 年實現 3 億美元的年度運行率。這些因素部分被出售 AES 巴西公司以及出售 AES 俄亥俄州和我們的全球保險業務所抵消。翻到第14張投影片。調整後的每股收益增至 0.75 美元，而上年同期為 0.71 美元。

Drivers were similar to adjusted EBITDA, partially offset by higher depreciation and interest expense and lower renewable tax attribute recognition, mainly due to timing. We also benefited from a slightly lower adjusted tax rate. Next, I'll cover the performance drivers within each of our strategic business units. Beginning with our renewables SBU on slide 15. Our strong growth was primarily driven by the 3 gigawatts of new capacity brought online since Q3 2024.

驅動因素與調整後的 EBITDA 類似，但部分被較高的折舊和利息支出以及較低的可再生能源稅收屬性確認所抵消，這主要是由於時間因素造成的。我們也受益於略微降低的調整後稅率。接下來，我將介紹我們各個策略業務部門的績效驅動因素。首先從第 15 頁的再生能源事業單位開始。我們強勁的成長主要得益於自 2024 年第三季以來新增的 3 吉瓦發電容量。

Our results were also driven by the continued benefit from cost reductions and scaling down of development spending as our pipeline has continued to mature. Lastly, the net effect of moving Chile renewables to the renewables SBU this year was more than offset by the sale of our 5 gigawatt AES Brazil business.

隨著我們的產品線不斷成熟，成本降低和研發支出縮減帶來的持續效益也推動了我們的績效成長。最後，今年將智利再生能源業務轉移到再生能源事業單位的淨影響，被我們出售 5 吉瓦 AES 巴西業務所抵消。

Turning to slide 16. We've made excellent progress so far this year toward achieving our full year renewables EBITDA guidance and have already exceeded our full year 2024 EBITDA in just the first 3 quarters of 2025. We expect to continue this momentum in the year to go, driven by our expanded operating fleet and full realization of our cost savings objective. As the size of our operating portfolio increases, while our development spending and overhead decline, our operating margins are significantly improving. In addition, hydro conditions in Colombia have normalized compared to last year, and we expect to realize the largest benefit in our fourth quarter results.

翻到第16張幻燈片。今年到目前為止，我們在實現全年再生能源 EBITDA 目標方面取得了優異的進展，並且在 2025 年的前三個季度就已經超過了 2024 年全年 EBITDA 目標。我們預計在未來一年將繼續保持這一發展勢頭，這得益於我們不斷擴大的營運船隊和全面實現的成本節約目標。隨著我們營運組合規模的擴大，以及開發支出和管理費用的下降，我們的營業利潤率顯著提高。此外，哥倫比亞的水力條件與去年相比已經恢復正常，我們預計在第四季度業績中獲得最大收益。

Turning back to our third quarter results on slide 17, in the Utilities SBU, higher adjusted pretax contribution, or PTC, in the quarter was mostly driven by the $1.3 billion of rate base investments we've made over the previous four quarters to improve reliability and customer experience. This was partially offset by the 30% sell-down of AES Ohio that closed in April.

回到投影片 17 中我們第三季的業績，在公用事業業務單位 (SBU) 中，本季調整後的稅前貢獻 (PTC) 增加，主要是由於我們在過去四個季度中投入了 13 億美元用於費率基礎投資，以提高可靠性和客戶體驗。4 月 AES Ohio 股票 30% 的減持部分抵銷了這一影響。

At our Energy Infrastructure SBU, higher EBITDA primarily reflects our acquisition of the remaining ownership in the Cochrane coal plant, cost savings and the commencement of operations at our Gatun gas plant last year. This was partially offset by the Chile renewable assets moving to our renewables segment in 2025. Finally, EBITDA at our New Energy Technologies SBU was relatively flat versus a year ago, with no material drivers.

在我們的能源基礎設施業務單位中，更高的 EBITDA 主要反映了我們收購了 Cochrane 煤電廠的剩餘股份、成本節約以及去年 Gatun 天然氣廠的投產營運。智利再生能源資產將於 2025 年轉移到我們的再生能源部門，這在一定程度上抵消了上述影響。最後，我們新能源技術事業部的 EBITDA 與去年同期相比基本持平，沒有實質的驅動因素。

Turning to our 2025 EBITDA guidance on slide 20. We have already achieved more than 3/4 of the midpoint of our guidance in the year-to-date. And I am highly confident in our full year range of $2.65 billion to $2.85 billion. Growth in the year to go will be primarily driven by the continued strong increase in contributions from new renewables projects, rate base investment in our US utilities, normalized results at our Colombian hydro assets and the full realization of our $150 million cost savings target.

請看第 20 頁投影片，了解我們對 2025 年 EBITDA 的預測。今年迄今為止，我們已經實現了預期目標中位數的四分之三以上。我對我們全年26.5億美元至28.5億美元的營收目標非常有信心。未來一年的成長將主要得益於新的再生能源項目貢獻的持續強勁增長、美國公用事業的費率基礎投資、哥倫比亞水電資產的正常化業績以及1.5億美元成本節約目標的全面實現。

Looking at the right-hand side, we are also reaffirming our adjusted EPS guidance of $2.10 to $2.26. In addition to the drivers of adjusted EBITDA, we expect slightly higher tax credit recognition on new renewables projects, partially offset by higher interest expense as a result of new debt for our growth investments and a slightly higher adjusted tax rate.

從右側數據來看，我們重申調整後每股盈餘預期為 2.10 美元至 2.26 美元。除了影響調整後 EBITDA 的因素外，我們預計新增再生能源項目的稅收抵免確認額將略有增加，但部分將被增長投資新增債務帶來的利息支出增加以及略微上升的調整後稅率所抵消。

Looking beyond this year on slide 21, we're also reaffirming our 5% to 7% long-term growth rate for adjusted EBITDA through 2027 from the midpoint of guidance we gave at our Investor Day in 2023. Notably, we expect a strong step-up over the next two years with our growth rate increasing to the low teens next year. We expect to have significantly less drag from asset sales and coal retirements going forward.

在第 21 張投影片中，我們展望了今年之後的情況，並重申了我們 2023 年投資者日給出的指導中點，到 2027 年調整後 EBITDA 的長期增長率為 5% 至 7%。值得注意的是，我們預計未來兩年將出現強勁成長，明年成長率將達到兩位數左右。我們預計未來資產出售和煤礦退役帶來的拖累將大大減少。

And instead, our overall results will be driven by new EBITDA contributions from our 11.1 gigawatt renewables backlog and 11% utilities rate base growth. It is important to highlight that our long-term guidance through 2027 understates the actual run rate earnings power of our portfolio. Looking beyond 2027, we expect to earn an incremental $400 million of run rate EBITDA.

相反，我們的整體業績將主要由 11.1 吉瓦再生能源積壓訂單帶來的新增 EBITDA 貢獻以及 11% 的公用事業費率基礎成長所驅動。需要強調的是，我們對 2027 年之前的長期業績指引低估了我們投資組合的實際獲利能力。展望 2027 年後，我們預計將獲得 4 億美元的增量 EBITDA。

This is from projects that we expect to be either still under construction at the end of 2027 or that will come online during 2027 and will contribute a full year of EBITDA in 2028. This $400 million does not require any additional project development or PPA signings, but represents the full realization of investments we'll have already made by the end of our guidance period.

這是指我們預計到 2027 年底仍在建設中的項目，或將於 2027 年投入運營並在 2028 年貢獻全年 EBITDA 的項目。這 4 億美元不需要任何額外的專案開發或購電協議簽署，而是代表了我們在指導期結束時已經進行的投資的全部實現。

Now let's turn to our 2025 parent capital allocation plan on slide 22. Sources reflect approximately $2.7 billion of total discretionary cash, including achieving upper half of our $1.15 billion to $1.25 billion parent free cash flow target. We achieved our asset sales target with the sell-down of our global insurance business in the second quarter, and we expect to borrow an additional $500 million at the parent to continue funding growth.

現在讓我們來看看第 22 頁的 2025 年母公司資本配置計畫。資金來源反映出約 27 億美元的可自由支配現金總額，其中包括實現我們 11.5 億美元至 12.5 億美元母公司自由現金流目標的上半部分。我們在第二季度透過出售全球保險業務實現了資產出售目標，我們預計將從母公司額外借款 5 億美元，以繼續為成長提供資金。

On the right-hand side, you can see our planned use of capital. We will return more than $500 million of dividends to shareholders this year while investing approximately $1.8 billion towards new growth, primarily in the renewables and utilities businesses.

右側顯示的是我們計畫的資金用途。今年我們將向股東返還超過 5 億美元的股息，同時投資約 18 億美元用於新的成長，主要投資於再生能源和公用事業業務。

We have also repaid approximately $400 million of subsidiary debt. Our balance sheet and cash flow generation remains strong, consistent with our investment-grade credit ratings. Our consolidated Moody's FFO to net debt metric is tracking ahead of the agreed path of 10% to 11% in 2025 and we are confident in achieving the 12% target by the end of 2026. In summary, we've demonstrated the high growth of our renewables and utilities businesses and our excellent track record of completing projects on time and on budget.

我們也償還了約4億美元的子公司債務。我們的資產負債表和現金流依然強勁，與我們的投資等級信用評級相符。我們綜合的穆迪FFO與淨債務指標正朝著2025年10%至11%的目標穩定前進，我們有信心在2026年底實現12%的目標。總而言之，我們已經證明了我們的再生能源和公用事業業務的高速成長，以及我們按時按預算完成專案的出色記錄。

Since we initiated our long-term plan in 2023, we brought 10 gigawatts of projects online and signed another 12 gigawatts, while investing nearly $4 billion in the rate base at our US utilities. We are extremely well positioned to achieve our 2025 guidance and long-term growth rates through 2027, and our plan remains largely derisked. I look forward to meeting with many of you next week at the EEI Financial Conference.

自 2023 年啟動長期計劃以來，我們已將 10 吉瓦的項目上線，並簽署了另外 12 吉瓦的項目，同時在美國公用事業公司的費率基礎上投資了近 40 億美元。我們完全有能力實現 2025 年的業績指引和 2027 年的長期成長率，而且我們的計畫風險仍然很低。我期待下週在EEI金融大會上與各位見面。

With that, I'll turn the call back over to Andres.

這樣，我就把電話轉回安德烈斯了。

Thank you, Steve. Before we open the call for questions, I want to reiterate how pleased I am with our execution this year. We remain firmly on track to achieve all of our strategic and financial objectives. And we have made significant progress in growing our renewables business as evidenced by the 46% increase in renewables EBITDA year-to-date. The primary driver of this EBITDA growth is the 3 gigawatts of new capacity completed over the last 12 months.

謝謝你，史蒂夫。在正式開始提問之前，我想再次強調我對我們今年的工作成果非常滿意。我們仍將穩步朝著實現所有策略和財務目標邁進。我們在發展再生能源業務方面取得了顯著進展，今年迄今再生能源 EBITDA 成長了 46%，足以證明這一點。推動 EBITDA 成長的主要因素是過去 12 個月內新增的 3 吉瓦發電容量。

Our construction program provides clear line of sight to continued EBITDA growth through our guidance period and beyond. These results demonstrate the strength and resilience of our strategy and our ability to bring new projects online efficiently and at scale. As a diversified power company, we are well positioned to deliver the technology and solutions our customers need, whether through renewables, our utilities or our energy infrastructure business. Our safe harbor pipeline, a robust domestic supply chain and deep customer relationships give us a competitive advantage as we meet the growing demand for reliable, low-cost power. I am confident that our continued focus on execution will drive value for our shareholders as we move into 2026 and beyond.

我們的建設項目為在指導期內及以後實現 EBITDA 持續成長提供了清晰的前景。這些結果證明了我們策略的實力和韌性，以及我們有效率、大規模地將新專案上線的能力。作為一家多元化的電力公司，我們有能力為客戶提供所需的技術和解決方案，無論是透過再生能源、公用事業或能源基礎設施業務。我們擁有安全的輸電管道、強大的國內供應鏈和深厚的客戶關係，這使我們在滿足日益增長的可靠、低成本電力需求方面具有競爭優勢。我相信，隨著我們邁入 2026 年及以後，我們繼續專注於執行，將為我們的股東創造價值。

With that, I'd like to ask the operator to open up the call for questions.

接下來，我想請接線生開放提問環節。

(Operator Instructions) Nick Campanella, Barclays.

（操作說明）尼克·坎帕內拉，巴克萊銀行。

Thanks for all the updates. Maybe just -- I heard your comments on the 5% to 7% long-term growth on EBITDA, very confident in that through '27 as well as the disclosure about the $400 million of EBITDA beyond '27. Maybe just with the asset sales progressing, are you trying to communicate that you're going to be above this range as we look out to '27 and then more within the range as we look to '26? Or maybe can you just walk through some of the moving pieces that we should kind of consider there?

感謝您提供的所有更新資訊。或許只是——我聽到了你關於 EBITDA 長期增長 5% 至 7% 的評論，我對 2027 年之前的增長非常有信心，也對 2027 年以後 EBITDA 達到 4 億美元的披露表示讚賞。或許隨著資產出售的進行，您是想傳達這樣的訊息：展望 2027 年，您的業績將高於這個區間，而展望 2026 年，業績將更接近這個區間？或者您能否簡單介紹一下我們應該考慮的一些關鍵因素？

Yes. Nick, it's Steve. So we're reaffirming the 5% to 7% through 2027. When we referenced the $400 million in our remarks, we're talking about the fact that we expect to have projects coming online in '27, and projects that are still in construction at the end of '27. And this is primarily from things that are already in the backlog that will be yielding an incremental $400 million of EBITDA beyond 2027 so in '28 and in '29 on an annualized basis.

是的。尼克，我是史蒂夫。因此，我們重申到 2027 年，稅率將維持在 5% 到 7% 之間。我們在演講中提到的 4 億美元，指的是我們預計在 2027 年將有一些項目投入使用，以及在 2027 年底仍在建設中的一些項目。這主要來自已經積壓的項目，這些項目將在 2027 年之後，也就是 2028 年和 2029 年，按年計算，帶來 4 億美元的額外 EBITDA。

So the capital that we have provided includes the investment and the debt for that, but obviously not the EBITDA since these are projects that would not be completed or at least not full year contributing in 2027. So that was the point there. We're really confident in our 5% to 7% guidance through the period. As you know, we have really derisked the business. We have a long-term contracted generation where it's coming from as well attractive returns in the utilities.

因此，我們提供的資金包括投資和債務，但顯然不包括 EBITDA，因為這些項目不會在 2027 年完成，或至少不會在 2027 年全年產生收益。所以，重點就在這裡。我們對該期間 5% 至 7% 的成長預期非常有信心。如您所知，我們已經大大降低了業務風險。我們有長期合約的發電來源，而且公用事業公司也能提供可觀的回報。

So we, over the long term, see this as a very solid plan to achieve that target. Note that we have 11.1 gigawatts of projects in our backlog, which is roughly three to four years of built-in growth already. And the other driver is utility rate base growth, which at roughly 11% as we've guided to. And there's upside to that with the new data center load that's in advanced negotiations that we've been talking about. So we feel really good about the 5% to 7%. The other thing to note is that the energy infrastructure, where we've had more of the coal retirements, more of the asset sales, that's really starting to level off.

因此，從長遠來看，我們認為這是一個實現該目標的非常可靠的計劃。請注意，我們目前有 11.1 吉瓦的專案儲備，這大約相當於三到四年的內建成長。另一個驅動因素是公用事業費率基礎的成長，正如我們之前預測的那樣，大約為 11%。而且，正如我們一直在討論的，目前正在進行深入談判的新資料中心負載也帶來了好處。所以我們對 5% 到 7% 的預期非常滿意。另一點要注意的是，在能源基礎設施領域，煤炭設施退役和資產出售的數量一直在增加，但這種情況實際上已經開始趨於平穩。

So when you look at the overall growth of AES, it's no longer somewhat offset by that decline in energy infrastructure to that same degree. So we see a very favorable path here to the 5% to 7% and then even beyond that.

因此，從整體來看，AES 的成長不再像以前那樣被能源基礎設施的衰退所抵消。因此，我們看到一條非常有利的道路，預計將達到 5% 到 7%，甚至更高。

Okay. That's helpful. And then maybe just a comment on parent funding going forward. Just as you look towards accelerating growth in renewables further, just what's balance sheet capacity at this point -- look like at this point? How should we think about the need for additional equity in any new plan or if you plan to just fully mitigate that and there shouldn't be any equity? And maybe you can just comment on how you're thinking about, I think there's a January parent maturity for next year.

好的。那很有幫助。然後或許可以就未來家長資助的問題發表一下看法。正當您著眼於進一步加速再生能源成長之際，目前的資產負債表容量究竟如何？我們該如何看待新計劃中對額外股權的需求？或者，如果你們打算完全消除這種需求，是否就不應該有任何股權？或許您可以談談您的想法，我認為明年一月份會有父母退休金到期日。

So look, our top priority is continuing to strengthen our balance sheet and keeping our investment-grade ratings strong, right? So that's the focus throughout our planning and our decision-making. It's not about gigawatt growth, but rather profitable growth with attractive returns that helps us achieve our balance sheet and our financial objectives. So keep in mind, we've already done a lot here to support the balance sheet. We removed $2 billion of cash through the actions we took in earlier this year, reducing overhead, resizing our development efforts, driving efficiencies throughout the organization.

所以，我們目前的首要任務是繼續加強資產負債表，保持投資級評級，對吧？所以，這就是我們整個規劃和決策過程中的重點。重要的不是千兆瓦級的成長，而是能夠帶來可觀回報的獲利成長，這有助於我們實現資產負債表目標和財務目標。所以請記住，我們已經做了很多工作來改善資產負債表。今年早些時候，我們採取措施削減開支、調整研發規模、提高整個組織的效率，節省了 20 億美元的現金。

We've also successfully executed sell-downs that has helped delever the business, for example, in AES Ohio, the sell-down to CDPQ was largely used to reduce debt in the Ohio holdco. And then in renewals, we're focused on pursuing fewer, but larger new projects with returns in the upper half of our 12% to 15% guidance range.

我們也成功執行了減持操作，幫助企業降低了槓桿。例如，在 AES Ohio，向 CDPQ 出售股份主要用於減少俄亥俄州控股公司的債務。而在續約方面，我們專注於追求數量較少但規模更大的新項目，目標是實現 12% 至 15% 指導範圍內的上半部分回報。

On top of all that, our EBITDA has reached an inflection point, as you can see with the Renewables segment, which has already grown 46% this year, it will likely be around 50% by the end of the year. So we see the strong EBITDA, strong growth in FFO, and so we see ourselves on a path to keep the balance sheet healthy. We are self-funded through 2027. We see an ability to extend that self-funding even beyond that point. And we do not have any plans to issue equity in this horizon.

除此之外，我們的 EBITDA 也達到了一個拐點，正如你所看到的，再生能源部門今年已經成長了 46%，到年底可能會達到 50% 左右。因此，我們看到了強勁的 EBITDA 和強勁的 FFO 成長，所以我們認為自己走在保持資產負債表健康的道路上。我們自籌資金營運至2027年。我們看到有能力將這種自籌資金的規模擴大到更遠的程度。我們近期沒有任何發行股票的計畫。

David Arcaro, Morgan Stanley.

大衛‧阿卡羅，摩根士丹利。

I was wondering if you could comment on whether you've seen an acceleration in demand following the treasury guidance a couple of months ago and generally what you're seeing from both the data center industry and their interest level in renewables. And would be curious if you could just maybe put that in context of the slower bookings and contracting activity that it looks like you experienced this past quarter?

我想請您談談，在幾個月前財政部發布指導意見後，您是否看到需求加速增長，以及您目前從數據中心行業及其對可再生能源的興趣程度方面觀察到的情況。我很想知道，您能否將此與上個季度似乎遇到的預訂量放緩和合約簽訂活動減少的情況聯繫起來？

Sure. Look, we see very strong interest from our data centers and our corporate customers. I would say that in our case, two things. One is, we've always said this is lumpy. And so we're doing fewer projects, larger projects.

當然。你看，我們的資料中心和企業客戶都表現出了非常濃厚的興趣。我認為就我們而言，有兩點。第一，我們一直都說這東西凹凸不平。因此，我們減少了專案數量，但增加了專案規模。

So there's no reason to expect that these are going to be evenly distributed among four quarters. So we feel confident we'll hit our 4 gigawatts. Now having said that, I think not all gigawatts are made the same or equal. So we're more than focusing on a number of gigawatts. What we're focusing on is the quality of those gigawatts.

因此，沒有理由認為這些支出會平均分配到四個季度。因此我們有信心達到4吉瓦的目標。話雖如此，我認為並非所有的千兆瓦功率都是一樣的，或者說是相等的。所以我們關注的不僅僅是幾個吉瓦。我們關注的是這些千兆瓦電力的品質。

We have a pipeline of safe harbor projects, and we want to make the most value from those projects. So what really counts is how profitable are the projects you're doing. So as we've said, our projects are, on average, 50% larger than they were five years ago. So we're going for bigger projects, more profitable projects. We're hitting -- we're trending towards the upper end of our IRR guidance, we feel very comfortable about that.

我們有一系列安全港項目正在籌備中，我們希望從這些項目中獲得最大價值。所以真正重要的是你正在做的專案有多賺錢。正如我們所說，我們的專案平均比五年前大了 50%。所以我們正在追求規模更大、利潤更高的項目。我們正朝著內部報酬率預期上限邁進，對此我們感到非常有信心。

So the demand is there. And the question is how do you optimize that asset you have, what I would call is the safe harbored projects. And look, there's interest beyond that horizon as well. So very strong demand for renewables because look, that's what can get built in this window. They can be talking about nuclear or other technologies, those take years to build.

所以市場需求是存在的。問題是，如何優化你擁有的資產，也就是我所說的安全港計畫。而且，除了這個範圍之外，還有更廣闊的領域值得關注。所以對再生能源的需求非常強勁，因為你看，這就是在這個時期可以建造的東西。他們可能在談論核能或其他技術，這些技術需要數年時間才能建成。

So what is going to meet the majority of the demand -- well, this year, it's probably going to be 90% is renewables and batteries. And it very likely will be next year as well. So very strong demand from our clients, and we're working very well with them.

那麼，今年將滿足大部分的需求將是再生能源和電池，可能達到 90%。而且明年很可能也會如此。因此，客戶需求非常強勁，我們與他們合作得也非常好。

Excellent. Yes, that makes sense. I appreciate that extra color there. And separately, so I guess we're seeing indications that storage, battery storage is being incorporated into more data center plans. I'm curious, what are you seeing on the ground in terms of storage demand? How big an opportunity could that be for on-site storage development on your end and potentially at data centers?

出色的。是的，這很有道理。我喜歡那裡增添的色彩。另外，我想我們看到一些跡象表明，電池儲能正在被納入更多的資料中心規劃中。我很好奇，您目前觀察到的儲存需求情況如何？對貴公司而言，這能為現場儲存開發帶來多大的機會？對資料中心而言，這又會帶來多大的機會？

Well, look, energy storage is really critical to meet the growing demand that we're seeing. So it's like a hammer, it has many, many uses. So definitely, there's a behind-the-meter use in the data centers themselves to smooth out their demand and also to have very fast reaction should there be any interruption if they're being fed by the grid. That's number one. Number two, it's quite frankly, using renewables to provide dispatchable energy for a longer period of time and transmission as well.

你看，儲能對於滿足我們目前看到的日益增長的需求至關重要。所以它就像一把錘子，有很多很多用途。因此，資料中心本身肯定會使用電錶後供電來平滑其用電需求，並且在電網供電中斷時能夠快速做出反應。這是第一點。第二，坦白說，就是利用再生能源在更長的時間內提供可調度能源，並進行輸電。

So already more than half of our solar projects are coming with batteries. And I would expect more demand for stand-alone batteries for grid services into the future. So batteries -- demand for batteries will be very strong, even gas plants. If you have a peaking gas plant, you can dispatch it more efficiently if you put batteries on it. One of the first applications we actually had with battery was on a fossil plant in Chile. So again, many, many uses. We see strong demand, and we do see demand for behind-the-meter as well at the data center itself.

因此，我們超過一半的太陽能專案都配備了蓄電池。我預計未來對用於電網服務的獨立電池的需求會越來越大。因此，電池—即使是天然氣發電廠，對電池的需求也會非常強勁。如果你有一座調峰燃氣發電廠，為它裝上電池，就可以更有效地調度它。我們最早將電池應用於智利的化石燃料發電廠。所以，用途非常廣泛。我們看到強勁的需求，我們也看到資料中心本身對錶後設備也有需求。

Julien Dumoulin-Smith, Jefferies.

Julien Dumoulin-Smith，傑富瑞集團。

Look, I wanted to focus first on the utility opportunity. And it raises in as much as, obviously, you had the IRP update here at IPALCO the other day. Can you give us a little bit of a sense of how far things are advanced there? I mean you obviously take note of what happened with NiSource here recently. And then separately, we saw the revisions of PJM at DPL here recently.

你看，我首先想關注的是公用事業的機會。而且，很明顯，正如你們前幾天在 IPALCO 上看到的 IRP 更新一樣，這個問題也得到了解決。能簡單介紹一下那邊的進展嗎？我的意思是，你顯然注意到了NiSource最近發生的事情。此外，我們最近也在 DPL 看到了 PJM 的修訂版。

You guys cite 2 gigawatts of potential advanced negotiations. I think the pipeline is up to 6 gigawatts. How would you set expectations at both in terms of near-term opportunities? And how does that compare against the guidance that you guys gave previously? I know the 11% rate base growth, how would you help frame and sensitize that out?

你們提到了2吉瓦的潛在高階談判。我認為這條輸電管道的裝置容量高達 6 吉瓦。您會如何設定雙方近期發展機會的預期？那這和你們之前給的指導意見相比如何？我知道稅率基數增加了11%，您會如何解釋和說明這一點？

Thank you, Julien, this is Ricardo. So I would say, in terms of AES Indiana, we are in advance negotiations. I think the IRP that we filed last week represents sort of the potential scenarios and the opportunity that we are currently pursuing. We expect to be in a position to announce deals in the next couple of months. I think in the IRP, you see that we run scenarios ranging from 520 megawatts to 2.5 gigawatts.

謝謝你，朱利安，我是里卡多。所以，就 AES Indiana 而言，我們目前正處於前期談判階段。我認為我們上週提交的IRP文件代表了我們目前正在尋求的潛在方案和機會。我們預計在未來幾個月內宣布相關交易。我認為在 IRP 中，您可以看到我們運行的場景範圍從 520 兆瓦到 2.5 吉瓦不等。

I think we believe these deals will be more in the 1.5, 2.5 gigawatt range. But again, that's something we will be announcing soon. Of course, that will include building the transmission as well as the generation capacity needed to support that massive load. I think in the case of Ohio, we have 2.1 gigawatts already signed. And I would say between the two utilities, we have more opportunities that we are discussing with the hyperscalers that, of course, we will communicate and share more details as the deals materialize.

我認為我們相信這些交易的規模會在 1.5 到 2.5 吉瓦之間。不過，我們很快就會公佈此事。當然，這其中也包括建造輸電線路以及滿足如此巨大負載所需的發電能力。我認為就俄亥俄州而言，我們已經簽署了 2.1 吉瓦的裝置容量協議。而且我認為，在這兩家公用事業公司之間，我們還有更多機會正在與超大規模資料中心營運商進行討論，當然，隨著交易的最終達成，我們會進行溝通並分享更多細節。

Got it. Excellent. And then just if you can elaborate a little bit on the powered land opportunity. You made some tantalizing comments here in the remarks here. What exactly does this specific partnership with the data center look like?

知道了。出色的。然後，能否詳細介紹一下動力土地投資機會？你在這裡的評論中發表了一些引人入勝的言論。與資料中心的這種具體合作關係究竟是什麼樣的呢？

Is this co-located with a gas plant versus renewables? What exact permutation are you thinking about here? And how do you think about extracting value? Is this about using existing assets or they're allowed to co-locate and have to build or bring new generation as well as part of this arrangement? I would just love to hear the parameters as best you see this coming together as an example? And how much further do you see for this to the extent to which it's a co-located thermal opportunity?

這座電廠是與天然氣發電廠還是再生能源發電廠毗鄰而建？你具體指的是哪一種排列組合？那麼，您是如何看待價值提取的呢？這是關於利用現有資產，還是允許他們共址，並且作為該安排的一部分，他們也必須建造或引入新的發電設施？我很想聽聽您認為如何才能最好地將這個例子整合起來？您認為這種結合了地熱資源的開發機會還能持續多久？

Okay. No, this is a co-located opportunity, and it's interconnected really with the grid, but also with renewables. So it's a co-located opportunity. We helped develop the site and we are monetizing this. And we will provide more color as this project progress and we can announce it jointly with our client.

好的。不，這是一個協同發展的機會，它不僅與電網緊密相連，而且與再生能源也息息相關。所以這是一個同時具備的機會。我們參與了網站的開發，並且正在透過網站獲利。隨著專案的進展，我們將提供更多細節，並可與客戶共同發布。

Okay. All right. It sounds like we got to stay tuned. And then on Uplight, anything to say there? I just noticed that in the queue here?

好的。好的。看來我們得繼續關注了。那麼關於 Uplight，你有什麼要說的嗎？我剛才注意到這裡排隊了？

Well, Uplight was our JV with Schneider Electric. And it's added more capacity to it, things like AutoGrid were taken in. So it has a bigger offering. But that market was a bit tough in the sense that with the uncertainty that they were in the market, the sales of new services were lower. We're seeing that market pick up now. But yes, there definitely was a slowdown and the ability to absorb new lines of business in that JV.

Uplight 是我們與施耐德電機的合資企業。而且它還增加了更多容量，例如 AutoGrid 等功能也被納入其中。所以它提供的選擇更多。但從某種意義上來說，當時的市場環境比較艱難，因為市場存在不確定性，新服務的銷售量較低。我們現在看到市場正在回升。但沒錯，合資企業確實出現了業務放緩，吸收新業務的能力也受到了影響。

Yes. No, I was struck by the virtual power plant business being done.

是的。不，我當時是被虛擬電廠業務所吸引。

Dimple Gosai, Bank of America.

Dimple Gosai，美國銀行。

Your slides kind of reaffirm strong data center PPA traction with 1.6 gigawatts kind of signed year-to-date. Can you quantify how contracted ROIC or unlevered returns on recent data center PPAs compared to your legacy book? And how pricing has moved in the last 6 to 12 months? And then I have a follow-up, please.

你的幻燈片似乎再次證實了資料中心購電協議 (PPA) 的強勁勢頭，今年迄今已簽署了約 1.6 吉瓦的協議。能否量化一下近期資料中心購電協議的合約投資報酬率或無槓桿報酬率與您以往的投資組合相比如何？過去 6 到 12 個月價格走勢如何？我還有一個後續問題。

On the data center deals. So yes, these are -- we made good progress. So we've signed a total of 2.2 gigawatts to date of PPAs. We feel very comfortable hitting the minimum of 4 gigawatts that we set out to achieve to get to the 14 to 17 gigawatt total. The 1.6 is the portion of that, that is with data centers.

關於資料中心交易。是的，我們取得了良好的進展。到目前為止，我們總共簽署了 2.2 吉瓦的購電協議。我們很有信心達到我們設定的最低目標 4 吉瓦，從而達到 14 至 17 吉瓦的總裝置容量。1.6 指的是資料中心那部分。

Notably, I think you saw a slide where we have -- we're already doing -- we already have in operation 4.2 gigawatts, another total of 4 gigawatts of in construction or backlog with data centers, including the 1.6 for a total of 8.2. That also does not include our utility business with data centers. So that's just around powering data centers through -- directly through PPAs.

值得注意的是，我想你們看到了一張幻燈片，上面顯示我們已經投入運營了 4.2 吉瓦的數據中心，另有 4 吉瓦的數據中心正在建設或處於積壓狀態，加上之前的 1.6 吉瓦，總計 8.2 吉瓦。這還不包括我們的資料中心公用事業業務。所以，這就是透過 PPA 直接為資料中心供電的方式。

The returns on these tend to be at the higher end of our 12% to 15%. They are -- these are projects that are in high demand. The time to power is extremely important. And so because we have been developing a pipeline for many years now, we have projects that are ready. We're not just coming to this to put projects together at the last minute.

這些投資的回報率通常在我們預期的 12% 到 15% 的較高水平。沒錯──這些都是需求量很大的項目。電力供應時間至關重要。因此，由於我們多年來一直在開發項目，我們已經有了一些準備就緒的項目。我們來這裡不是為了在最後一刻才把專案拼湊起來的。

We've been developing a 50-gigawatt pipeline for many years. So we have projects that can meet the time to power needs that are in the locations where our partnerships with data center hyperscalers have identified where they need power. And so we prioritize our development efforts in that regard. And so again, given the high demand, the need for near-term projects, and our ability to structure the solutions creatively that these folks need, we're seeing returns in the upper part of our 12% to 15% return.

多年來，我們一直在開發一條50吉瓦的輸電線路。因此，我們有一些專案可以滿足資料中心超大規模營運商合作夥伴確定的電力需求地點的供電時間要求。因此，我們將這方面的研發工作列為優先事項。因此，鑑於市場需求旺盛，需要盡快開展項目，並且我們有能力創造性地構建這些人需要的解決方案，我們看到回報率達到了 12% 到 15% 的預期回報率的上半部分。

Yes. I would also add that a key factor here is the supply chain. So as we've said in the past, we basically had on-site or in country, everything that we needed for this year and next. So this has been very favorable since we haven't been affected by any tariffs. And starting in 2026, we will be relying on domestically produced key inputs.

是的。我還要補充一點，供應鏈是這裡的重要因素。正如我們過去所說，我們基本上已經擁有了今年和明年所需的一切現場或國內物資。因此，這對我們非常有利，因為我們沒有受到任何關稅的影響。從 2026 年開始，我們將依賴國內生產的關鍵投入品。

So I think an important element in terms of looking at the returns of these projects is how we have such a secure supply chain in place. We also have very favorable arrangements with our contractors for construction, we basically give them a series of constructions and they roll from one to the other. So all of these efficiencies are being reflected in the returns.

所以我認為，在評估這些項目的回報時，一個重要的因素是我們如何建立如此安全的供應鏈。我們與建築承包商之間也有非常優惠的協議，我們基本上給他們一系列的建築項目，他們就從一個項目到另一個項目地進行。因此，所有這些效率提升都體現在了收益中。

Okay. And then the natural follow-up is with hyperscalers increasingly exploring on-site and hybrid procurement strategies and the shift towards behind-the-meter or co-located structures, how does that actually change your development return or risk mix? How do we kind of think of that going forward?

好的。接下來很自然地會問，隨著超大規模企業越來越多地探索現場和混合採購策略，以及向用戶側或同地部署結構轉變，這實際上會如何改變您的開發回報或風險組合？我們該如何看待這個問題的未來發展？

Look, we see so much demand for the products that we are selling that we don't think that's going to affect us. And really, when you talk to the hyperscalers, first, it's time to power. So any new announcements are years in the future. But in addition, you connect to the grid.

你看，我們看到市場對我們銷售的產品需求量很大，所以我們認為這不會對我們造成影響。實際上，當你和超大規模資料中心營運商交談時，首先要談的是供電。所以任何新的公告都還要幾年以後才會發布。此外，你還要連接到電網。

So I think, as Steve said, it's having the created the opportunities in the right locations in the right markets is what they're really looking for. So look, the demand is so large. It's -- I don't see sort of cannibalization from sort of behind the meter from the hyperscalers.

所以我覺得，正如史蒂夫所說，他們真正想要的是在合適的地點、合適的市場創造機會。你看，需求量非常大。——我沒看到超大規模資料中心營運商在幕後進行蠶食行為。

Steve Fleishman, Wolfe Research.

史蒂夫‧弗萊什曼，沃爾夫研究公司。

So just maybe a high-level question. Just as you're getting into this next period of the plan soon, back a few years ago when you did the Analyst Day, you shifted to the EBITDA framework along with the earnings and part of the earnings was just that they were lumpy and they hit one year. How are you thinking about that as you get into this next period? And are you going to really focus more on the EBITDA guide or still try and target like an earnings growth?

所以，也許可以問一個比較宏觀的問題。就在你們即將進入計劃的下一個階段之際，回想幾年前你們舉辦分析師日的時候，你們轉向了 EBITDA 框架以及收益，而部分收益只是波動較大，並且有一年達到了峰值。進入下一個階段，你對此有何想法？你們會更關注 EBITDA 指標，還是仍會以獲利成長為目標？

Steve. So look, we continue to see EBITDA being the best way to measure the AES portfolio today and going forward. The part of moving to it was to give the underlying recurring earnings from our contracted businesses related to the PPAs more related to the ongoing cash flow versus the EPS that is obviously very highly influenced by the lumpiness of tax credits and when projects get brought online. Given that now with the new law in the OBBA and the new guidance, we still see an extended track for tax credits. And so we believe there will continue to be a significant influencer of the EPS and causing that lumpiness.

史蒂夫。所以，我們仍然認為 EBITDA 是衡量 AES 投資組合目前和未來表現的最佳方式。這樣做的目的是為了讓與購電協議 (PPA) 相關的合約業務的基本經常性收益與持續現金流更加相關，而不是與每股收益 (EPS) 更相關，因為 EPS 顯然會受到稅收抵免的波動性和項目上線時間的極大影響。鑑於現在有了 OBBA 中的新法律和新的指導方針，我們仍然看到稅收抵免的途徑會延長。因此，我們認為這將繼續對每股盈餘產生重大影響，並導致每股盈餘出現波動。

So we think EBITDA continues to be the best way to look at the portfolio. And also the EBITDA is reaching that inflection as Andres and I discussed in our prepared remarks. What's driving it forward now is both the fact that we've really scaled up the operating portfolio. So we've installed just over the past two years, '24, '25, 6.9 gigawatts of new capacity. And we've grown the utility rate base by $1.3 billion in the past year in investment.

因此，我們認為 EBITDA 仍然是評估投資組合的最佳指標。正如安德烈斯和我事先準備好的演講稿中所討論的那樣，EBITDA 也即將達到轉折點。推動它向前發展的因素是我們已經真正擴大了營運組合的規模。因此，在過去的兩年裡，也就是 2024 年和 2025 年，我們新增了 6.9 吉瓦的發電容量。過去一年，我們透過投資使公用事業費率基礎增加了 13 億美元。

So we're seeing roughly going into 2026 from new projects about $250 million of new EBITDA from utilities about $100 million of new EBITDA from cost savings going from the $150 million this year to the full annualized $300 million. And so we really see just a significant inflection here. And again, without the stepping down in the energy infrastructure that we've seen to the same degree, those positives that I just mentioned, are largely going to flow all the way through to the total AES.

因此，我們預計到 2026 年，新項目將帶來約 2.5 億美元的新 EBITDA，公用事業公司將帶來約 1 億美元的新 EBITDA，成本節約將使 EBITDA 從今年的 1.5 億美元增加到全年的 3 億美元。因此，我們確實看到了一個重要的轉折點。再說一遍，如果沒有像我們看到的那樣在能源基礎設施方面出現同等程度的倒退，我剛才提到的那些積極因素，很大程度上將惠及整個AES。

So of course, there'll be some things that fall off, for example, the Maritza PPA does expire next year and have a partial offset, but not nearly to the same degree that things have been offsetting as we have been improving the quality of the portfolio, exiting markets where we were not seeing an attractive future for AES. It's been a quality story, but now it's both quality and a significant increase in the growth rate at the same time.

當然，有些事情會逐漸結束，例如，Maritza PPA 將於明年到期，並且會有一些抵消，但遠不及我們一直在提高投資組合質量、退出我們認為對 AES 沒有吸引力的市場時所抵消的程度。這原本就是一個高品質的故事，但現在它不僅質量上乘，而且增長率也顯著提高。

Great. Okay. And just a couple of other tie-up questions. When we think about this DTA type transaction, is there something related to this that would be an ongoing PPA or is this more of a build-own-transfer type thing or kind of a mix of both?

偉大的。好的。還有幾個其他相關的問題。當我們考慮這種 DTA 類型的交易時，是否存在與之相關的持續性 PPA，或者這更像是一種建設-擁有-轉讓類型的交易，還是兩者的某種混合？

It's a mix of both. It does have an ongoing PPA.

兩者兼而有之。它確實有一份正在執行的購電協議。

Okay. Good. And then lastly, just on Indiana, your point is very valid on the rate levels and kind of maybe just a little bit of bad timing in the rate case and can't control just the politics. So just how important is it going to be to get -- do you think the consumer groups or at least one of them on board in this settlement? Do you think -- or how should we just think about that aspect?

好的。好的。最後，關於印第安納州，您關於利率水準的觀點非常有道理，或許利率案的時機有點不好，而且政治因素也無法控制。那麼，就讓消費者團體，或至少其中一個團體參與這項和解協議中來，究竟有多重要？你認為──或者我們應該如何看待這方面？

Steve, thank you. This is Ricardo. So I think the partial settlement that we reached, I think, strikes for the right balance between affordability and also the investments that are needed to have a reliable and resilient grid. As part of the agreement, AES Indiana agreed to reduce the original revenue increase by $105 million, which is 53%. And if you look at -- and also, we are committing not to have another rate base increase until 2030.

史蒂夫，謝謝你。這是里卡多。所以我認為我們達成的部分和解方案，在可負擔性和建立可靠、有韌性的電網所需的投資之間取得了適當的平衡。作為協議的一部分，AES Indiana同意將原先的營收成長額減少1.05億美元，即53%。而且，我們也承諾在 2030 年之前不會再提高利率基數。

So all in all, it's a 2% annual increase through 2029, which is significantly lower than the cumulative inflation since 2022, which was the last rate increase. So we are confident on this settlement going through the different steps in the regulatory process. But more importantly, as I mentioned, strike the right balance between affordability and the investments that are needed to have a reliable grid.

總而言之，到 2029 年，年增長率為 2%，這遠低於自 2022 年（上次升息）以來的累計通貨膨脹率。因此，我們對這項和解協議順利通過監管流程的各個步驟充滿信心。但更重要的是，正如我所提到的，要在可負擔性和建立可靠電網所需的投資之間取得適當的平衡。

Of course, we will always welcome the Office of Utility Consumer Counselor to join the settlement. They could do it at any time of this process. But in any case, we expect a positive outcome as the commission is -- we'll need to look for something that makes sense from an affordability as well as reliability perspective.

當然，我們始終歡迎公用事業消費者顧問辦公室加入和解協議。他們可以在整個過程中的任何階段中這樣做。但無論如何，我們期待委員會能做出積極的決定——我們需要從價格和可靠性的角度尋找一個合理的方案。

Anthony Crowdell, Mizuho.

Anthony Crowdell，瑞穗銀行。

If I could follow up on Steve's first question. When -- I think on the fourth quarter, when you give us a roll forward, any thought to going out five years? Or does the company still plan to keep the outlook limited at three years?

我可以就史蒂夫的第一個問題再補充一點嗎？我想，在第四季度，當你們給我們一個展望未來的計畫時，有沒有考慮過展望未來五年？或者該公司仍計劃將展望期限制在三年內？

Anthony. It's Steve. I would expect to go to three years, again, I think that is sufficiently long-term accounting for things that will change naturally in the world around us. But I think we'll go out to 2028 is what I would want you to expect.

安東尼。是史蒂夫。我預計需要三年時間，我認為這已經足夠長遠了，可以考慮到我們周圍的世界自然會發生變化的事情。但我認為，到 2028 年，我希望你們對此有所預期。

And then lastly, if I follow up on Julien's question, and I apologize. I didn't follow the difference. On the powered land solution, I'm just wondering what it's between that program and also just maybe a PPA with a customer? And if it's easier offline, I could follow up with EEI?

最後，如果我繼續追問 Julien 的問題，我深感抱歉。我沒明白其中的差別。關於陸地供電解決方案，我只是想知道該計劃與和客戶簽訂購電協議 (PPA) 之間有什麼區別？如果線下比較容易操作，我可以聯絡EEI嗎？

We can give you more color, let's say, offline. But basically, one is power land where you develop a data center, and it has an associated PPA with it. So the -- it's a different product that you're selling. One is energy over x number of years. And the other one is actually providing the site on which you can provide -- you can build the data center.

我們可以離線提供更多色彩。但基本上，一種是電力用地，你可以在那裡開發資料中心，並且它與購電協議 (PPA) 相關。所以——你賣的是另一種產品。一是x年內的能量。而另一項實際上是提供一個網站，您可以在該網站上建立資料中心。

Got it. So it would be AES would actually own the land, build the data center, and there's a PPA attached and whatever hyperscalers would come in there in a one-stop shop all from AES?

知道了。所以，AES 實際上會擁有土地，建造資料中心，並簽訂購電協議 (PPA)，所有超大規模資料中心營運商都會透過 AES 的一站式服務入駐？

That's the way of thinking of it.

這是一種思考方式。

Dimple Gosai, Bank of America.

Dimple Gosai，美國銀行。

More of a housekeeping question, to be fair. I think you mentioned around 50% growth for the year in the Renewable segment is the expectation here. But it looks like you need closer to 57% for the low end for the renewables EBITDA guidance based on the 4Q '24 comp. So maybe can you comment on the key levers and considerations there that we need to consider to hit 2025 EBITDA guidance?

公平地說，這更像是內部事務的問題。我認為你之前提到過，預計再生能源領域今年的成長率將達到 50% 左右。但根據 2024 年第四季的比較數據，再生能源 EBITDA 指引的下限似乎需要接近 57%。那麼，您能否就我們需要考慮的關鍵槓桿和因素發表一下看法，以便實現 2025 年 EBITDA 目標？

Dimple, it's Steve. So you're right that it actually is higher when you look at the prior year unadjusted for the Chile renewables, which moved into the segment this year. So the 50% includes when we adjust into 2024 on a pro forma basis, the Chile renewables that we were able to segregate from the Thermal segment last year. And so that's the 50% that I'm referring to. But it is even higher growth rate when you don't take that Chile into account at all for 2024.

小酒窩，我是史蒂夫。所以你說得對，如果把今年納入該領域的智利可再生能源納入考量，那麼與前一年相比，實際數值會更高。因此，50% 包括了我們在 2024 年按備考基準進行調整時，去年我們能夠從火力發電業務中分離出來的智利再生能源。這就是我所說的50%。但如果完全不考慮智利，2024 年的成長率甚至更高。

(Operator Instructions) Aidan Kelly, JPMorgan.

（操作說明）艾丹凱利，摩根大通。

(technical difficulty)

（技術難題）

Apologies, we have lost connection with Aidan Kelly. (Operator Instructions)

抱歉，我們與艾丹凱利失去了聯繫。（操作說明）

We currently have no further questions. So I'll hand back to Susan Harcourt for closing remarks.

我們目前沒有其他問題。那麼，我將把發言權交還給蘇珊·哈考特，請她作總結發言。

We thank everybody for joining us on today's call. As always, the IR team will be available to answer any follow-up questions you may have. Thank you and have a nice day.

感謝各位參加今天的電話會議。如有任何後續問題，投資者關係團隊將一如既往地為您解答。謝謝，祝您愉快。

This now concludes today's call. Thank you for joining. You may now disconnect your lines.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。現在您可以斷開線路了。