Axcelis Technologies Inc (ACLS) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good day, ladies and gentleman and welcome to the Axcelis Technologies call to discuss the company's results for the third quarter, 2024. My name is Karinne and I will be your coordinator for today.

女士們、先生們，美好的一天，歡迎致電 Axcelis Technologies，討論公司 2024 年第三季的業績。我的名字是 Karinne，我將擔任您今天的協調員。

I would now like to turn the presentation over to your host for today's call. David Ryzhik, Senior Vice President of Investor Relations and Corporate Strategy. Please go ahead.

我現在想將簡報轉交給今天電話會議的主持人。David Ryzhik，投資者關係與企業策略資深副總裁。請繼續。

Thank you, operator. This is David Ryzhik, Senior Vice President of Investor Relations and Corporate Strategy and with me today is Russell Low, President and CEO; and Jamie Coogan, Executive Vice President and CFO.

謝謝你，接線生。我是投資者關係和企業策略資深副總裁 David Ryzhik，今天和我在一起的是總裁兼執行長 Russell Low；以及執行副總裁兼財務長 Jamie Coogan。

If you have not seen a copy of our press release issued yesterday, it is available on our website. In addition, we have prepared slides accompanying today's call and you can find those on our website as well. Please note that included in our slide presentation is a table summarizing a correction to our historical backlog numbers which Jamie will discuss in his prepared remarks. Playback service will also be available on our website as described in our press release.

如果您還沒有看到我們昨天發布的新聞稿副本，可以在我們的網站上找到。此外，我們也準備了今天電話會議附帶的幻燈片，您也可以在我們的網站上找到這些幻燈片。請注意，我們的幻燈片簡報中包含一個表格，總結了對我們歷史積壓訂單數量的修正，傑米將在他準備好的發言中討論該修正。正如我們的新聞稿中所述，我們的網站也將提供播放服務。

Please note that comments made today about our expectations for future revenues, profits and other results are forward-looking statements under the SEC, Safe Harbor provision. These forward-looking statements are based on management's current expectations and are subject to the risks inherent in our business. These risks are described in detail in our Form 10-K annual report and other SEC filings which we urge you to review. Our actual results may differ materially from our current expectations. We do not assume any obligation to update these forward-looking statements.

請注意，今天關於我們對未來收入、利潤和其他業績的預期的評論屬於美國證券交易委員會安全港條款下的前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述是基於管理階層目前的預期，並受到我們業務固有風險的影響。我們的 10-K 表格年度報告和其他 SEC 文件中詳細描述了這些風險，我們強烈建議您查看這些文件。我們的實際結果可能與我們目前的預期有重大差異。我們不承擔更新這些前瞻性聲明的任何義務。

Now I'll turn the call over to President and CEO, Russell Low.

現在我將把電話轉給總裁兼執行長 Russell Low。

Good morning and thank you for joining us for our third quarter. 2024 earnings call. Beginning on slide 3, we executed well in the third quarter, delivering revenue of $257 million and earnings per diluted share of $1.49. Overall revenue is largely in line with our expectations of a strong sequential increase in revenue from our image sensor market offset a sequential decline in our power and general mature markets. that said bookings in the quarter were softer than we expected as we see some customers digest the investments made into global mature node capacity over the past few years. I'll provide more color on this later from the prepared marks.

早安，感謝您加入我們的第三季。 2024 年財報電話會議。從幻燈片 3 開始，我們在第三季表現良好，營收為 2.57 億美元，攤薄後每股收益為 1.49 美元。整體收入在很大程度上符合我們的預期，即影像感測器市場收入的強勁連續成長抵消了我們的電力和一般成熟市場的連續下降。也就是說，本季的預訂量低於我們的預期，因為我們看到一些客戶消化了過去幾年對全球成熟節點容量的投資。稍後我將根據準備好的標記提供更多顏色。

Turning to slide 4, we show the breakdown of ship systems revenue by segment which is almost entirely comprised of mature nodes in the quarter with power being the largest components. Now let me review, ship system revenue by end market and we'll begin with the mature nodes on slide 5.

轉向幻燈片 4，我們顯示了船舶系統收入按細分市場的細分，該細分市場幾乎完全由本季度的成熟節點組成，其中電力是最大的組成部分。現在讓我回顧一下，按終端市場劃分的系統收入，我們將從幻燈片 5 中的成熟節點開始。

Revenue from our power markets was approximately 57% of total down sequentially from 63% in Q2, 2024 shipments to silicon carbon applications moderated in the third quarter however, on a year-to-date basis for 2024 silicon carbon has been strong growing year over year reflecting a continued build out of capacity. We expect fourth quarter revenue for silicon carbide to remain relatively consistent on a sequential basis. The long term opportunity in silicon carbide remains an important growth driver for Axcelis.

來自電力市場的收入約佔總收入的57%，比2024 年第二季的63% 下降了約57%，碳矽應用的出貨量在第三季有所放緩，但從年初至今來看，2024 年碳矽應用年增長強勁這一年反映了產能的持續建設。我們預計第四季碳化矽收入環比將保持相對穩定。碳化矽的長期機會仍然是 Axcelis 的重要成長動力。

[Year], estimates the silicon carbide market will grow from $2.7 billion in 2023 to $9.9 billion in 2029 or a 24% CAGR and ion implantation is one of the most critical manufacturing steps to make a silicon carbide device. We are well positioned as the market leader in implant for silicon carbide, given the breadth of our portfolio and focused investments we've made in this market for several years.

[年]，碳化矽市場預計將從 2023 年的 27 億美元成長到 2029 年的 99 億美元，複合年增長率為 24%，而離子注入是製造碳化矽裝置最關鍵的製造步驟之一。鑑於我們產品組合的廣度以及我們多年來在這個市場上進行的重點投資，我們作為碳化矽植入物的市場領導者處於有利地位。

We are deeply embedded in our customers' technology road maps and widely engaged with customers to help them transition from 150 millimeters to 200 millimeters wafer capacity. In addition, we are seeing interest in our solutions to enable customers transitions to trench mofettes. The transition to trench architecture is a tailwind for Axcelis given the need for deeper implants which require our high energy tools where we are the technology end market leader.

我們深入融入客戶的技術路線圖，並與客戶廣泛合作，協助他們從 150 毫米晶圓產能過渡到 200 毫米晶圓產能。此外，我們看到人們對我們的解決方案感興趣，以幫助客戶過渡到溝槽式電纜。鑑於需要更深的植入，這需要我們的高能量工具，而我們是技術終端市場的領導者，因此向溝槽架構的過渡對 Axcelis 來說是順風順水。

From an end market perspective, we are keeping a close on the transition from 400 volts to 800 volts electric vehicles over time, which is enabled by silicon carbide, given better efficiency compared to traditional silicon. As many of you know, 800 volt EVs can deliver faster charging times and better battery efficiency. As such, this can be an important catalyst for silicon carbide penetration into EVs which ultimately translates to more ion implantation required.

從終端市場的角度來看，隨著時間的推移，我們正在接近實現從 400 伏特到 800 伏特電動車的過渡，這是由碳化矽實現的，與傳統矽相比，其效率更高。眾所周知，800 伏特電動車可以提供更快的充電時間和更好的電池效率。因此，這可能是碳化矽滲透到電動車中的重要催化劑，最終轉化為需要更多的離子注入。

In silicon IGBT revenue in the third quarter was up sequentially but remained generally muted as we expected, given the slow rate of recovery in the auto industry and we anticipate demand to remain muted in the near term based on recent order trends. However, I am pleased to say that we've received our first PO from a customer for our optimized purion and VXE implanter used for the critical silicic and IGBT power device backside proton implant application.

在矽基 IGBT 領域，第三季度營收環比成長，但正如我們預期的那樣總體保持低迷，因為汽車行業復甦速度緩慢，並且根據近期訂單趨勢，我們預計近期需求將保持低迷。不過，我很高興地說，我們已收到客戶的第一份採購訂單，該訂單涉及我們優化的 purion 和 VXE 注入機，用於關鍵的矽和 IGBT 功率裝置背面質子注入應用。

Recall from our Investor Day in July, we talked about the benefits of this implant and reducing switching time in high voltage operation of these silicon IGBD power devices for our customers. The adoption of this optimized implanter based on our production proven purion and VXE platform is a shiny example of the innovation engine at Axcelis.

回想一下 7 月的投資者日，我們談到了這種植入的好處以及為我們的客戶減少這些矽 IGBD 功率裝置高壓操作的開關時間。採用這種基於我們經過生產驗證的 purion 和 VXE 平台的優化植入機是 Axcelis 創新引擎的一個閃亮例子。

We identified a key application and customer needs designed a specific technology to address it work closely with the customer in qualifying our tool and now intend to commercialize this to drive incremental revenue. In general mature revenue moderates in the third quarter also consistent with expectations. We continue to monitor key end markets namely auto industrial and consumer, which are drivers of our general mature segment which have yet to show signs of recovery in the near term. That said upon a macroeconomic rebound in the end markets we serve, we would expect to benefit from the breadth of our customer base.

我們確定了一個關鍵應用程式和客戶需求，設計了一種特定的技術來解決它，與客戶密切合作來驗證我們的工具，現在打算將其商業化以增加收入。整體而言，成熟的第三季營收放緩也符合預期。我們繼續監控關鍵終端市場，即汽車工業和消費市場，它們是我們整體成熟細分市場的驅動力，但短期內尚未顯示出復甦的跡象。也就是說，當我們服務的終端市場宏觀經濟反彈時，我們預計將從我們廣泛的客戶群中受益。

Trench image sensors, revenue is strong driven by demand out of China, particularly for smartphone applications, shipments to the image sensor market can be lumpy and we expect revenue in the fourth quarter to normalize back to prior trends.

溝槽影像感測器的收入受到中國需求的強勁推動，尤其是智慧型手機應用，影像感測器市場的出貨量可能不穩定，我們預期第四季的營收將恢復到先前的趨勢。

Turning to slide 6, in advanced logic, we did not have any revenue in the quarter but we continue to make progress with our evaluation systems including our dragon tool and an advanced research institution in Europe and are having meaningful conversations with our customers in the advanced logic space. As a reminder, this is a multi-year development effort and we are encouraged by the market acceptance and customers' interest to date.

轉向幻燈片6，在高級邏輯中，我們本季沒有任何收入，但我們的評估系統（包括我們的Dragon 工具和歐洲的高級研究機構）繼續取得進展，並且正在與高級邏輯中的客戶進行有意義的對話。提醒一下，這是一項多年的開發工作，迄今為止的市場接受度和客戶的興趣讓我們感到鼓舞。

Moving to memory. We are seeing some early signs of activity from memory custom -- from memory customers as they look to start adding some DRAM capacity. While we only sold one system in the third quarter, we expect additional revenue in the fourth quarter and are monitoring the scope and pace of market recovery as we look to 2025.

轉移到記憶中。我們看到記憶體客製化活動的一些早期跡象——來自記憶體客戶，因為他們希望開始增加一些 DRAM 容量。雖然我們在第三季只銷售了一套系統，但我們預計第四季度會有額外收入，並在展望 2025 年時監控市場復甦的範圍和速度。

Generally, we see DRAM investments outpacing NAND primarily due to strong adoption of high bandwidth memory for AI applications which is absorbing some DRAM capacity. As we noted last quarter, memory customers typically place purchase orders shortly before shipment. As a result, we have prebuilt some inventory for implanters to the memory market and stand ready to respond as demand grows.

一般來說，我們認為 DRAM 投資超過 NAND 主要是因為人工智慧應用廣泛採用高頻寬內存，這正在吸收一些 DRAM 容量。正如我們上季度所指出的，記憶體客戶通常在出貨前不久下達採購訂單。因此，我們為記憶體市場的植入者預先建立了一些庫存，並隨時準備好隨著需求的成長做出反應。

Turning to slide 7, to summarize our team executed well in the third quarter as we focus on what we can control. As referenced earlier, we've seen continued softness in customers bookings below our prior expectations and moderation in growth expectations for our key markets in 2025. This is primarily tied to the digestion of capacity in our power and general mature markets and particularly in China.

轉向投影片 7，總結我們的團隊在第三季表現良好，因為我們專注於我們可以控制的事情。如前所述，我們發現客戶預訂持續疲軟，低於我們先前的預期，我們對 2025 年主要市場的成長預期有所放緩。這主要與我們的電力和一般成熟市場，特別是中國的產能消化有關。

As a result, our preliminary expectations for revenue in the first half of '25 to be lower than the second half of '24. Near term dynamics aside, we remain very excited about the following long term growth opportunities that lie ahead for Axcelis.

因此，我們對 25 年上半年收入的初步預期將低於 24 年下半年。撇開近期動態不談，我們仍然對 Axcelis 未來的長期成長機會感到非常興奮。

First, continued growth in adoption of silicon carbide as a key enabler of electrification, power efficiency and decarbonization, electric vehicles are the poster child of what silicon carbide can do, we expect greater penetration into the EV market but we also see silicon carbide proliferating to a wide array of applications such as industrial and renewable energy to name just two.

首先，碳化矽作為電氣化、能源效率和脫碳的關鍵推動者的採用持續增長，電動車是碳化矽的典型代表，我們預計電動車市場將有更大的滲透，但我們也看到碳化矽正在激增廣泛的應用，例如工業和再生能源僅舉兩例。

With a custom silicon carbide wafers declining, and device makers generating better economies of scale from growing easy adoption of silicon carbide we believe the lower cost profile overall, silicon carbide devices will lead to more widespread adoption across a variety of applications and this in turn drives the need for more ion implantation, which is foundational to silicon carbide.

隨著客製化碳化矽晶圓的減少，以及設備製造商透過越來越容易採用碳化矽而產生更好的規模經濟，我們相信，總體成本較低，碳化矽設備將導致在各種應用中得到更廣泛的採用，這反過來又推動了需要更多的離子注入，這是碳化矽的基礎。

Second, a cyclical recovery of memory and general mature markets. One spending on consumer electronics, auto and industrial rebounds. Third share gains in the advanced logic market where we're exploring new applications for ion implantation in the middle of line and back end of line. And we are actively engaging with customers and driving interest with our evaluation units. We finally penetrate the Japan market where we aim to extend the success we've made in power to other markets within Japan.

其次，記憶體和一般成熟市場的周期性復甦。其中消費性電子、汽車和工業支出出現反彈。第三個份額成長來自先進邏輯市場，我們正在探索生產線中段和後端離子注入的新應用。我們正在積極與客戶互動，並透過我們的評估單位激發他們的興趣。我們最終打入了日本市場，我們的目標是將我們在電力方面的成功擴展到日本國內的其他市場。

Summing it all up, we are well positioned to drive attractive long term growth and profitability through the cycles. Finally, I want to thank our employees, customers, shareholders and partners for their continued support and trust in Axcelis.

總而言之，我們處於有利地位，可以在整個週期中推動有吸引力的長期成長和獲利能力。最後，我要感謝我們的員工、客戶、股東和合作夥伴對 Axcelis 的持續支持和信任。

With that, let me turn the call over to Jamie for a closer look at our results and outlook. Jamie?

接下來，讓我將電話轉給傑米，以便更仔細地了解我們的結果和前景。傑米？

Thank you Russell and good morning everyone. I'll start with some additional detail on our third quarter results before turning to our outlook for Q4. Starting on slide 8, third quarter revenue was $256.6 million with systems revenues at $201.1 million and CS&I at $55.5 million. This was largely in line with our outlook of $255 million. As a reminder CS&I is driven by our installed base and represents consumable, spares, services and upgrades as we grow our installed base, we anticipate CS&I to deliver a steady and growing base of revenue and profitability in the coming years.

謝謝拉塞爾，大家早安。在轉向我們對第四季度的展望之前，我將首先介紹第三季業績的一些額外細節。從幻燈片 8 開始，第三季營收為 2.566 億美元，其中系統收入為 2.011 億美元，CS&I 收入為 5,550 萬美元。這在很大程度上符合我們 2.55 億美元的預期。需要提醒的是，CS&I 是由我們的安裝基礎驅動的，隨著我們安裝基礎的成長，它代表消耗品、備件、服務和升級，我們預計CS&I 將在未來幾年提供穩定且不斷增長的收入和盈利基礎。

From a geographic perspective, China remained our strongest region at 71% of total ship system sales, with the uptick quarter over quarter, primarily due to higher sales to the image sensor market for smartphone production. We expect our revenue from China to decline sequentially in the fourth quarter and in the first half of 2025 compared to the second half of 2024. As customers digest the build out of mature node capacity that has been built up over the past few years. Over the long term, we anticipate China to remain an important market for us albeit at a lower growth rate than non-China revenue. Now let me turn to our bookings and backlog in the quarter.

從地理角度來看，中國仍然是我們最強勁的地區，佔船舶系統總銷售額的 71%，且逐季上升，主要是由於智慧型手機生產的影像感測器市場的銷售額增加。我們預計，與 2024 年下半年相比，2025 年第四季和上半年我們來自中國的營收將連續下降。隨著客戶消化過去幾年建立的成熟節點容量的建構。從長遠來看，我們預計中國仍將是我們的重要市場，儘管其成長率低於非中國收入。現在讓我談談本季的預訂和積壓訂單。

As we noted in our earnings press release, during our preparation of third quarter financial statements, our internal financial team identified an error in the past calculation of our quarterly backlog dating from 2019 through the second quarter of 2024. This relates to the manner in which we treated pre payments on some of our systems orders that led to a double counting of these amounts which has now been corrected. Specifically for the second quarter of 2024, we previously reported backlog of $994 million which following this review is corrected to $879 million.

正如我們在收益新聞稿中指出的那樣，在準備第三季財務報表的過程中，我們的內部財務團隊發現我們過去計算 2019 年至 2024 年第二季的季度積壓訂單存在錯誤。這與我們處理某些系統訂單預付款的方式有關，導致對這些金額進行重複計算，現已更正。具體來說，對於 2024 年第二季度，我們先前報告的積壓金額為 9.94 億美元，此次審查後更正為 8.79 億美元。

It's important to note with the exception of the backlog figures, this change did not result in any corrections to any other previously reported financial information. We have provided the corrected backlog figures for 2019 through the second quarter of 2024, on slide 13 of our earnings presentation. As a reminder, our backlog may not include bookings received from memory customers given the short lead times following receipt of order and also do not include expected revenues associated with our CS&I business.

值得注意的是，除了積壓數據之外，此變更並未導致對先前報告的任何其他財務資訊的任何更正。我們在收益簡報的投影片 13 中提供了 2019 年至 2024 年第二季的修正積壓資料。提醒一下，我們的積壓訂單可能不包括從記憶客戶收到的預訂，因為收到訂單後的交貨時間很短，也不包括與我們的 CS&I 業務相關的預期收入。

Turning to the third quarter, our bookings were $84 million and we ended the quarter with a backlog of $758 million. Turning to slide 10 for additional detail on the third quarter. Gross margin was 42.9% which came in slightly below our target of 43.5% primarily a result of systems mix as well as slightly lower CS&I revenue which carries gross margin above our consolidated average.

談到第三季度，我們的預訂量為 8,400 萬美元，本季末的積壓訂單為 7.58 億美元。請參閱投影片 10，以了解有關第三季的更多詳細資訊。毛利率為 42.9%，略低於我們 43.5% 的目標，主要是由於系統組合以及 CS&I 收入略低（導致毛利率高於我們的綜合平均水平）。

Operating expenses totaled $63.1 million or 24.6% of revenue. During the period, we recorded a bad debt expense associated with the receivable from a small gallium nitride device manufacturer in Europe that filed for bankruptcy. This caused our total operating expenses to exceed our target of $60 million in the quarter.

營運支出總計 6,310 萬美元，佔收入的 24.6%。在此期間，我們記錄了與歐洲一家申請破產的小型氮化鎵設備製造商的應收帳款相關的壞帳費用。這導致我們本季的總營運支出超過了 6000 萬美元的目標。

The net charge associated with this totaled approximately $3.4 million and resulted in an $0.08 impact to diluted earnings per share. Excluding this charge, operating expenses were $59.6 million or 23.2% of sales, which was in line with our expected performance for the period. As a result, operating profit was $46.9 million reflecting an 18.3% operating margin. We estimate the negative impact of the onetime charge to be approximately 130 basis points to operating margin.

與此相關的淨費用總計約為 340 萬美元，對稀釋每股收益產生 0.08 美元的影響。排除此項費用，營運費用為 5,960 萬美元，佔銷售額的 23.2%，這與我們對該期間的預期業績相符。結果，營業利潤為 4,690 萬美元，營業利潤率為 18.3%。我們估計一次性費用對營業利益率的負面影響約為 130 個基點。

We generated approximately $8.5 million in other income, primarily a result of interest income and the benefit from foreign currency. Our tax rate in Q3 was 12% slightly more favorable than our outlook. Our weighted average diluted share count in the quarter was $32.7 million shares and this reflects continued execution on our share repurchase program where we exit the third quarter with $145 million remaining in share repurchase authorization.

我們產生了約 850 萬美元的其他收入，主要來自利息收入和外幣收益。我們第三季的稅率為 12%，略高於我們的預期。本季我們的加權平均稀釋股票數量為 3,270 萬美元，這反映了我們股票回購計畫的持續執行，我們在第三季退出時，股票回購授權剩餘 1.45 億美元。

This all translates into a diluted earnings per share of $1.49 which exceeded our outlook of $1.43 higher than expected EPS stem from the slightly higher revenue, FX gain and a favorable tax rate partially offset by the onetime charge I discussed earlier as well as the slightly lower gross margins.

這一切意味著每股攤薄收益為1.49 美元，超出了我們預期的1.43 美元，每股收益高於預期，原因是收入略高、外匯收益和有利的稅率被我之前討論的一次性費用以及略低的稅率部分抵銷。

Moving to our cash flow and balance sheet. We generated $42 million of free cash flow in the quarter. In fact, through the first nine months of 2024 despite revenues declining 7% on a year-over-year basis, our free cash flow grew by 49% reflecting our focus on working capital management. As a result, we ended the third quarter with $579 million in cash, cash equivalents and short term investments on hand.

轉向我們的現金流和資產負債表。本季我們產生了 4,200 萬美元的自由現金流。事實上，2024 年前 9 個月，儘管營收年減 7%，但我們的自由現金流成長了 49%，反映出我們對營運資本管理的關注。因此，截至第三季末，我們手頭現金、現金等價物和短期投資為 5.79 億美元。

Moving to our fourth quarter outlook on slide 11, we expect revenue in the fourth quarter of approximately $245 million. We expect fourth quarter gross margins to be approximately 42.5% with operating expenses estimated at approximately $60 million. We expect our tax rate to be approximately 15% leading to an estimated diluted earnings per share of approximately $1.25.

轉到投影片 11 的第四季展望，我們預計第四季的營收約為 2.45 億美元。我們預計第四季毛利率約為 42.5%，營運費用預計約為 6,000 萬美元。我們預計稅率約為 15%，預計攤薄後每股收益約為 1.25 美元。

In summary, we are pleased with the performance delivered by our team thus far in 2024. Our cash generation remains strong, we are engaging with customers across a number of key growth opportunities and we are investing in our product road maps while maintaining discipline in our overall cost structure. All of this when coupled with our strong balance sheet, put us in position to capture the growth opportunities that lie ahead and drive long term value creation for shareholders.

總而言之，我們對我們團隊 2024 年迄今的表現感到滿意。我們的現金產生能力仍然強勁，我們正在透過許多關鍵的成長機會與客戶合作，我們正在投資我們的產品路線圖，同時保持整體成本結構的紀律。所有這些再加上我們強大的資產負債表，使我們能夠抓住未來的成長機會，並推動為股東創造長期價值。

With that, operator, may we have the first question, please?

那麼，接線員，我們可以問第一個問題嗎？

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Craig Ellis, B. Riley Securities.

克雷格·艾利斯，B.萊利證券。

Yeah, thanks for taking the question team. I wanted to start with inquiry on order activity and hoping you could put more context around some of the slides in the deck. So the question is, can you just frame up what you've seen with orders on an end use basis and maybe a geographic basis starting with the momentum that exists in the big business exiting 2Q, how things played out in 3Q and what you've seen fourth quarter to date?

是的，感謝您接受提問小組的邀請。我想從查詢訂單活動開始，並希望您能為幻燈片中的一些幻燈片提供更多背景資訊。所以問題是，你能否以最終用途為基礎，或許也可以以地理為基礎，從大企業退出第二季度的勢頭、第三季度的情況以及你的情況開始，來構建你所看到的訂單狀況？

Yeah. So Craig, thanks for the question and good morning. As we look at it and as we said in our commentary in the prepared remarks, the softness that we're seeing in the general mature and power space is driving the lower order activity. And as a result that's really informing, our view -- our preliminary view on the first half of 2025 with that being lower than the second half of 2024. As we entered the quarter, we did have an expectation for bookings to be higher, but we continue to see that order activity although there's a lot of discussions, we see that the placement of those purchase orders continue to push out.

是的。克雷格，謝謝你的提問，早安。正如我們所看到的，正如我們在準備好的評論中所說，我們在整體成熟和權力空間中看到的疲軟正在推動較低階的活動。因此，我們的觀點確實很有參考價值——我們對 2025 年上半年的初步看法低於 2024 年下半年。當我們進入本季度時，我們確實預計預訂量會更高，但我們繼續看到訂單活動，儘管有很多討論，但我們看到這些採購訂單的放置繼續增加。

Got it. And then just following up on the point, you made Jamie about the first half of '25. Can you talk about within the view the company now has, what are some of the positives half on half and one half, '25 what are some of the headwinds? And how does that stack up both on a geographic basis and on an end use basis?

知道了。然後緊接著這一點，你在 25 年的上半段做了傑米。您能否談談公司現在的看法，有哪些正面因素，25 有哪些不利因素？從地理角度和最終用途來看，這又是如何疊加的？

Okay. Sorry. So what I was saying was that we do see the first half of '25 being lower than the second half of '24. We do see like a digestion period for general mature and power particularly in China. So I'd say the bright spots would be memory. So while we only revenue one machine for memory in Q3, we are seeing more activity in Q4, we expect some of that to continue into the first half.

好的。對不起。所以我想說的是，我們確實看到 25 年上半年低於 24 年下半年。我們確實看到了整體成熟度和實力的消化期，尤其是在中國。所以我想說亮點是記憶。因此，雖然我們在第三季度僅獲得一台記憶體機器的收入，但我們在第四季度看到了更多的活動，我們預計其中一些活動將持續到上半年。

Yeah, and thinking through some of the headwinds and challenges, right? The softness and that digestion, the markets that -- for a long time now we've been sort of outrunning some of the cyclical downturns that other peers in our space have experienced. And as we think through 2025, barring a meaningful recovery 2025 could be down year over year relative to 2024.

是的，並思考一些逆風和挑戰，對嗎？很長一段時間以來，市場的疲軟和消化，我們已經擺脫了我們領域其他同行所經歷的一些週期性衰退。我們認為，到 2025 年，除非出現有意義的復甦，否則 2025 年的經濟成長可能會比 2024 年年減。

But this is a time for us to continue to invest in our road maps and our technologies and work with our customers, Craig. So , we see this as in the strength of our balance sheet and our cash generation, put us in a position to be able to strengthen the company during the period to exit -- accelerate the exit out of the cycle as it occurs.

但現在是我們繼續投資我們的路線圖和技術並與我們的客戶克雷格合作的時候了。因此，我們認為這體現在我們的資產負債表和現金產生能力方面，使我們能夠在退出期間增強公司實力——加速退出週期。

Yeah, I think that's a really good point. It's like this is a great opportunity to get bandwidth from our customers and to work really closely with them on new products so that when the recovery comes, we're ready to go with new products and we can gain market that way. But just to be clear, the visibility into '25 is not great. Naturally come at Q4 earnings call, will give you a lot more granularity, but this is kind of what we're seeing right now.

是的，我認為這是一個很好的觀點。這就像是一個很好的機會，可以從我們的客戶那裡獲得頻寬，並與他們在新產品上密切合作，這樣當經濟復甦到來時，我們就準備好推出新產品，這樣我們就可以贏得市場。但要明確說明的是，25 年的前景並不樂觀。當然，在第四季的財報電話會議上，會給你更多的細節，但這就是我們現在看到的。

Got it guys. I'll hop back in the queue. Thanks for the help.

明白了，夥計們。我會跳回到隊列中。感謝您的協助。

Thanks Greg.

謝謝格雷格。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Jack Egan, Charter Equity Research.

傑克·伊根，特許股票研究。

Hey guys, thanks for taking the questions. So a few days ago, there was a report that some other capital equipment companies are directing their suppliers to kind of eliminate the use of Chinese components. I'm not really sure to what degree Axcelis uses Chinese suppliers for your components. But have you taken any similar actions or do you plan on taking any similar actions?

嘿夥計們，感謝您提出問題。幾天前，有報告指出其他一些資​​本設備公司正在指示其供應商取消使用中國零件。我不太確定 Axcelis 在何種程度上使用中國供應商來生產您的組件。但您是否採取過類似的行動或計劃採取任何類似的行動？

Yeah, I mean, I think the -- Jack, I'm not aware of these other reports from the other providers by any means. But what I can say is that our supply chain on a fairly consistent regular basis is reviewing our supply base. We are looking to find to improve the localization where we can to limit cross border shipping as much as we possibly can to reduce tariffs and duties and freight costs associated with the supply chain base.

是的，我的意思是，我認為——傑克，我無論如何都不知道其他提供者的這些其他報告。但我可以說的是，我們的供應鏈相當一致地定期檢視我們的供應基地。我們正在尋求改善本地化的方法，盡可能限制跨境運輸，以降低與供應鏈基地相關的關稅和運費。

We have a very strong supply base here in the United States and in other parts of the world outside of China. We've done a very meaningful job of second sourcing into low cost regions and low cost countries where appropriate. So, all I can really say on this is we actively manage the supply chain on a basically -- daily basis here relatively consistently. And we've developed some fairly robust plans which are outlined in our margin expectations to continue to grow the margins of the business through better and more efficient utilization of the supply chain.

我們在美國和中國以外的世界其他地區擁有非常強大的供應基地。我們在適當的低成本地區和低成本國家進行了二次採購，這是一項非常有意義的工作。因此，我真正能說的是，我們基本上每天都相對一致地積極管理供應鏈。我們已經制定了一些相當穩健的計劃，這些計劃在我們的利潤預期中概述，旨在透過更好、更有效地利用供應鏈來繼續提高業務利潤。

Got it. Okay. And then I guess this was kind of more last quarter, but you mentioned that the rebound in general mature kind of needed to see a better consumer spending to return to strength. And I wasn't sure if there's really a way to quantify this but to what degree is general mature leverage to the three end markets you mentioned, so automotive, industrial and consumer, I mean, is consumer always the biggest driver of that segment or is just kind of particularly important right now because of some of the weakness in those other end markets.

知道了。好的。然後我想這在上個季度更多，但你提到，整體成熟的反彈需要看到更好的消費者支出才能恢復強勁。我不確定是否真的有辦法量化這一點，但你提到的三個終端市場的普遍成熟槓桿在多大程度上，所以汽車、工業和消費者，我的意思是，消費者始終是該細分市場的最大驅動力，或由於其他終端市場的一些疲軟，現在特別重要。

Good question. Thank you. So I don't know what the ratios are between consumer, industrial and automotive regarding mature. But what we do know is that each one of those drives demand very much. I mean, when you think about a car, it's now basically a computer on wheels with all of the infotainment and all of the automation and the electric ones have a complete powertrain. Industrial has been weak and obviously consumers has been weak as well. I mean, you can see that through phones and laptops. So we do think that once those markets start to recover and 2023 was a great year for those, once those markets start to recover, we're going to see a rebound in our business. But I can't tell you which end market has the biggest opportunity.

好問題。謝謝。所以我不知道消費者、工業和汽車之間的成熟度比例是多少。但我們所知道的是，每種驅動器的需求都非常大。我的意思是，當你想到一輛汽車時，它現在基本上是一台帶輪子的計算機，具有所有資訊娛樂系統、所有自動化系統和電動系統，並且具有完整的動力系統。工業疲軟，消費者顯然也疲軟。我的意思是，你可以透過手機和筆記型電腦看到這一點。因此，我們確實認為，一旦這些市場開始復甦，而 2023 年對這些市場來說是偉大的一年，一旦這些市場開始復甦，我們將看到我們的業務反彈。但我無法告訴你哪個終端市場有最大的機會。

Got it. Okay. Thank you.

知道了。好的。謝謝。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Thanks Jack.

謝謝傑克。

Ross Cole, Needham & Co, LLC.

羅斯·科爾，尼達姆有限責任公司。

Hi, and thank you for taking my question. I wanted to dive a little bit deeper into your [GAN] opportunity. Given that you mentioned the European customer had a little bit of a negative outcome there and led to the increased OpEx. How do you see this changing going forward? Thank you.

您好，感謝您提出我的問題。我想更深入地了解您的 [GAN] 機會。鑑於您提到歐洲客戶在那裡產生了一些負面結果並導致營運支出增加。您如何看待這種變化？謝謝。

Okay. So thanks for the question, Ross. So GAN, so if I look at wide band GAAP semiconductors, obviously, that's kind of like the two exciting areas are silicon carbide and GAN, they have very different spaces. GAN is typically higher frequency, lower power than say silicon carbide. So we're expecting both to have their applications. GAN and nitrate is significantly smaller right now as an opportunity compared to silicon carbide. One thing I would say is that with silicon carbide, it's really intense on implantation steps and doping, while we do dope galleon nitride devices, it's not nearly the same intensity.

好的。謝謝你的提問，羅斯。所以 GAN，如果我看看寬頻 GAAP 半導體，顯然，這有點像碳化矽和 GAN 這兩個令人興奮的領域，它們有非常不同的空間。GAN 通常比碳化矽具有更高的頻率、更低的功率。所以我們希望兩者都能得到應用。與碳化矽相比，GAN 和硝酸鹽目前的規模要小得多，這是一個機會。我要說的一件事是，對於碳化矽，它在註入步驟和摻雜方面確實非常強烈，而我們對氮化鎵裝置進行摻雜時，它的強度幾乎不一樣。

So for us, silicon carbide and silicon IGBTs are very interesting because they drive a lot of implant steps, gallium nitride it does drive implant steps. It is currently what I would consider a niche application.

因此，對我們來說，碳化矽和矽 IGBT 非常有趣，因為它們驅動大量注入步驟，氮化鎵確實驅動注入步驟。目前我認為這是一個利基應用程式。

Yeah. And this is a very -- as you imagine, Ross, this is a very customer specific issue and I don't think it foretells anything broadly about GAN or power device segment broadly.

是的。這是一個非常——正如你想像的那樣，Ross，這是一個非常針對客戶的問題，我認為它並不能廣泛地預示有關 GAN 或電力設備領域的任何事情。

Yeah. It was a small customer and Europe, it wasn't one of the big guys that have talked about gallium nitride.

是的。這是一個小客戶和歐洲，它不是談論氮化鎵的大公司之一。

Great. Thank you. That was really helpful color. Appreciate it. Thanks a lot.

偉大的。謝謝。那是非常有用的顏色。欣賞它。多謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Tom Diffely, DA Davidson & Co.

湯姆‧迪夫利 (Tom Diffely)，檢察官戴維森公司

Yeah, good morning. I appreciate the chance to ask a question here. Just wanted to focus on the transition of silicon carbide from 150 to 200 for some of your customers and curious, what is the opportunity for you for a fab that's transitioning versus a new Greenfield fab?

是的，早安。我很高興有機會在這裡提問。只是想為您的一些客戶關注碳化矽從 150 到 200 的轉變，並且很好奇，對於您來說，正在轉型的晶圓廠與新的綠地晶圓廠相比有什麼機會？

Hey, Tom, thanks for the question. So it's actually interesting. 150 to 200 transitions seems to actually be picking up speed. We're working with many, many customers on 200. And a lot of them have actually taken delivery of 200 millimeter capabilities. So this is the thesis we have and this is kind of what we're seeing is that most people are going to bring up their 150 optimize their processes, optimize their yields. And then as the availability of 200 millimeter wafers becomes available and the quality continues to improve and the price continues to drop. They will bring up their 200 millimeter capacity on brand new machines, they're not going to transfer straight away.

嘿，湯姆，謝謝你的提問。所以這實際上很有趣。 150 到 200 次轉換似乎實際上正在加快速度。我們正在與許多客戶合作 200。其中許多實際上已經具備了 200 毫米的能力。這就是我們的論點，我們看到的是，大多數人都會提出他們的 150 來優化他們的流程，優化他們的產量。然後隨著 200 毫米晶圓的出現，品質不斷提高，價格不斷下降。他們將在全新機器上提高 200 毫米的產能，但不會立即轉移。

So the 150 millimeter running and then they bring up the 200 once the 200 is up and stable and more cost effective, I think you would expect to see the 150 potentially get retrofit. assuming the rest of the equipment of the fab is able to be retrofit. Because remember a lot of these fabs that people started with were old fabs that they're reutilizing. So that there will be some fabs that will upgrade and some that we will not be able to.

因此，150 毫米運行，然後一旦 200 毫米運行穩定且更具成本效益，他們就會推出 200 毫米，我認為您會期望看到 150 可能得到改造。假設晶圓廠的其餘設備能夠進行改造。因為請記住，人們開始使用的許多晶圓廠都是他們正在重新利用的舊晶圓廠。因此，有些晶圓廠將會升級，有些晶圓廠我們將無法升級。

Just to -- yeah, just to clarify though, your tools are 150, 200 capable with a bit of a kit. Is that right?

只是為了——是的，只是為了澄清一下，你的工具有 150 種、200 種功能，並且帶有一些套件。是這樣嗎？

Yes, they are. So all of our tools are filled upgradable. So if you think about that as an upgrade opportunity, then we have a large installed base and that would be a great opportunity for our aftermarket business in the future, but we still are expecting to sell a lot of new tools into Greenfield as well.

是的，他們是。所以我們所有的工具都是可升級的。因此，如果您將其視為升級機會，那麼我們擁有龐大的安裝基礎，這將是我們未來售後市場業務的絕佳機會，但我們仍然期望向 Greenfield 出售大量新工具。

Okay, great. I hope now, that helps clarify. And then just a follow up question on the margin side, when you look at the margins down about 150basis points a year-over-year, is that simply overhead absorption? Is its product mix? Could you provide a little more color there.

好的，太好了。我現在希望這有助於澄清。然後是關於利潤率方面的一個後續問題，當你看到利潤率年減約 150 個基點時，這是否只是管理費用吸收？是它的產品組合嗎？你能在那裡提供更多的顏色嗎？

The answer to those is yes, yes and yes. So we had -- it's a little bit of overhead absorption. It's a little bit of systems mix and slightly lower CS&I volume, period over period. So it's systems, CS&I, and a little bit of overhead absorption just given the lower volumes in the period time.

答案是肯定的、是的、是的。所以我們吸收了一點開銷。隨著時間的推移，系統的混合程度有所提高，CS&I 的數量也略有下降。因此，考慮到該時期的交易量較低，它是系統、CS&I 以及一些間接費用吸收。

But this hasn't been any kind of unusual pricing pressure.

但這並不是任何異常的定價壓力。

Nothing that we've seen that materially where I think we always get challenged on price from customers to do better and find opportunities. But this really does come down to systems mix, CS&I mix of between systems and CS&I and then ultimately, the overhead absorption just given the lower volume.

我認為我們總是受到客戶的價格挑戰，要求做得更好並尋找機會，但我們從未見過如此實質的情況。但這確實歸結為系統組合、系統之間的 CS&I 組合以及 CS&I 以及最終的開銷吸收（考慮到較低的容量）。

Great. Thank you very much.

偉大的。非常感謝。

Yeah.

是的。

Thanks Tom.

謝謝湯姆。

Christian Schwab, Craig Hallum Capital Group.

克里斯蒂安·施瓦布，克雷格·哈勒姆資本集團。

Great. Thanks for taking my question. I guess as far as memory is concerned, you guys seem to have increased enthusiasm about the recovery of the DRAM spending. Well, other memory guys have been more excited about an increase in NAND spending on the movement to the 300 layer this year. So I'm just wondering if you can give us further clarity on your enthusiasm for DRAM.

偉大的。感謝您提出我的問題。我想就記憶體而言，你們似乎對 DRAM 支出復甦的熱情有所增加。嗯，其他記憶體廠商對今年遷移到 300 層的 NAND 支出增加感到更加興奮。所以我想知道您是否可以進一步向我們說明您對 DRAM 的熱情。

Hey Christian, it's Russell. So I think that the big thing is that we sell implanters based on wafers out. Whereas when you go to like 200, 300 more layers that actually increases the kind of the density if you like of many tools so deft wins big when they add more layers. For us, it doesn't make a significant difference. So we're all about more capacity coming online. So the reason we're excited about DRAM is that HBM has taken up a lot of DRAM capacity that has then pushed up the utilization.

嘿克里斯蒂安，我是拉塞爾。所以我認為最重要的是我們銷售基於晶圓的注入機。然而，當您使用 200、300 個以上的層時，如果您喜歡許多工具，那麼實際上會增加密度，因此當它們添加更多層時，靈巧會贏得巨大的勝利。對我們來說，這並沒有什麼重大區別。因此，我們致力於提高線上容量。所以我們對 DRAM 感到興奮的原因是 HBM 佔用了大量 DRAM 容量，從而推高了利用率。

So what we're seeing from some of our customers is now an investment in DRAM, the existing fabs occur being slightly optimized. You're getting a few tools to optimize the new, the existing fabs. But really the big opportunity for us is going to come when they actually have the new fabs come online. So I think you've probably been reading in the news that some of these fabs have been poured in and they're going to be used for DRAM. So we're excited about the DRAM utilization going up and driving additional demand. NAND is still quiet for us. Again, NAND is wonderful for the [definite guys], for us it's the same implant intensity, whichever node it is. Does that help Christian?

因此，我們現在從一些客戶那裡看到的是對 DRAM 的投資，現有的晶圓廠正在稍微優化。您將獲得一些工具來優化新的現有晶圓廠。但當他們真正讓新工廠上線時，我們的巨大機會就會到來。所以我想你可能已經在新聞中讀到，其中一些晶圓廠已經投入使用，它們將用於 DRAM。因此，我們對 DRAM 利用率的上升並推動額外需求感到興奮。NAND 對我們來說仍然很安靜。再次強調，NAND 對於[確定的人]來說非常棒，對我們來說，無論是哪個節點，它的注入強度都是相同的。這對基督徒有幫助嗎？

Either, that does. So when would you, you're building capacity, so would we assume that increase DDR5 wafer starts, in essence for DRAM. I think that's what you're talking about. You would anticipate that maybe in, the summer going into hopefully a better smartphone and PC sales cycle in the second half of '25 is putting the pieces of the puzzle together correctly there.

無論如何，確實如此。因此，您何時會建立產能，因此我們會假設增加 DDR5 晶圓開工量，本質上是 DRAM。我想這就是你所說的。您可能會預計，也許在今年夏天，智慧型手機和 PC 的銷售週期預計將在 25 年下半年出現更好的成長，從而將拼圖的各個部分正確地拼湊在一起。

So yes, just kind of take a step back. So as you know, we are strong in Korea. So yes, DDR5 in advanced nodes are where we're going to be focused. The older nodes like DDR4, and DDR3 are probably going to be manufactured in China. I think we probably said before that we're really not participating in that. So we're very focused on the advanced stuff. The transition from -- all the different nodes hasn't really changed the implant intensity.

所以是的，只是退一步。如你所知，我們在韓國很強大。所以，是的，先進節點中的 DDR5 是我們要專注的重點。DDR4 和 DDR3 等較舊的節點可能會在中國製造。我想我們之前可能說過我們真的不會參與其中。所以我們非常重視先進的東西。從所有不同節點的轉變並沒有真正改變注入強度。

So again, it's the number of wafers out that's important and we can expect that there'll be new capacity coming on in 2025 as you mentioned. I think some of our big customers have mentioned the pull in of fabs or the reuse of fabs. So we are expecting to see DRAM orders. Just to kind of give you a data point. So we talked about there's only one machine in Q3, we are expecting more activity in Q4, but that activity was what I would consider optimizing existing capacity just to get the most out of the four walls. Really, the big CapEx is going to come from the Greenfield, which have been publicly noted.

因此，重要的是晶圓產量，正如您所提到的，我們預計 2025 年將出現新產能。我想我們的一些大客戶已經提到了晶圓廠的拉入或晶圓廠的再利用。因此我們預計會看到 DRAM 訂單。只是為了給你一個數據點。因此，我們談到第三季只有一台機器，我們預計第四季會有更多活動，但我會考慮優化現有容量，以充分利用四面牆。事實上，巨額資本支出將來自綠地項目，這一點已被公開提及。

Yeah and Chris, I'll just add, that the kind of the scope and scale of that recovery is difficult to predict, exactly when that's going to occur. But we'll have more -- we should -- as we get greater visibility into 2025 we'll have more information on our views on memory as part of our fourth quarter earnings call.

是的，克里斯，我想補充一點，復甦的範圍和規模很難預測，尤其是何時發生。但隨著我們對2025 年的了解更加深入，我們將獲得更多信息——我們應該獲得更多信息，作為第四季度財報電話會議的一部分，我們將獲得更多關於我們對內存的看法的信息。

Great. No other questions. Thank you.

偉大的。沒有其他問題。謝謝。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Jed Dorsheimer, William Blair.

傑德·多斯海默，威廉·布萊爾。

Thank you guys. You have a Mark Shooter here on for Jed this morning. Just touching on the wafer market you're seeing in power in China. There are -- they seem to be like the last bastion of EV growth. So could you provide some color on the capacity and the digestion in that region that you're seeing and what needs to occur?

謝謝你們。今天早上，傑德的馬克射手在這裡。談談你所看到的在中國占主導地位的晶圓市場。它們似乎是電動車成長的最後堡壘。那麼您能否提供一些關於您所看到的該區域的容量和消化以及需要發生什麼的資訊？

Hey, Mark, it's Russell. So yeah, I mean -- so I would say go separate EV mobile market, which they are very big on versus the actual domestic supply of silicon carbide chips. So we've mentioned before, there's like 20 different customers, the Tier ones have a little bit more capacity. There's a large number of Tier two companies that are don't have a lot of capacity.

嘿，馬克，我是拉塞爾。所以，是的，我的意思是 - 所以我想說，要分開電動車移動市場，他們在這個市場上的規模非常大，而不是國內碳化矽晶片的實際供應。所以我們之前提到過，大約有 20 個不同的客戶，一級客戶的容量稍大。有大量的二級公司沒有太多產能。

One of the things we're seeing is that as companies have bought in their mini lines and they're ramping those mini lines, they've taken a while to get the tools to bed down across the whole fab improve their productivity, their yields and the reliability. So I think it may not be so much a pause because they've got too much capacity because I'm not sure that market is completely supplied demand driven. What -- their aspirations are to supply domestically silicon carbide to their own silicon carbide, EVs. So I think more of it is a taking of time to mature the processes and ring out the processes.

我們看到的一件事是，隨著公司購買了迷你生產線並擴大了這些迷你生產線，他們花了一段時間才讓整個工廠的工具得到應用，從而提高了他們的生產力和良率和可靠性。所以我認為這可能不會有太多的停頓，因為他們的產能太多了，因為我不確定市場是否完全由供應需求驅動。他們的願望是為自己的碳化矽電動車供應國內碳化矽。所以我認為更多的是需要時間來成熟流程並完善流程。

Great. That makes sense. I appreciate the call, Russell. Thank you. Can you touch on as a follow up, how much of your backlog is China sick? And have you seen any changes to the patterns and pushouts or cancellations there due to the things that you're talking about?

偉大的。這是有道理的。我很感謝你的來電，拉塞爾。謝謝。作為跟進，您能否談談您的積壓訂單中有多少是「中國病」的？您是否看到由於您所談論的事情而導致模式發生任何變化以及取消或取消？

Yeah. So we don't give specific breakdown on the backlog by segment or region Mark. But I think what we've noted in the commentary and what we said in our prepared remarks is that the softness in general mature power and particularly in China in the third quarter here is what was driving the lower bookings rate. So, yes and that is going to feed into our expectations for the first half of that preliminary view we have on the first half of 2025, relative to the second half of 2024.

是的。因此，我們不會按細分市場或地區標記對積壓訂單進行具體細分。但我認為我們在評論中指出的以及我們在準備好的發言中所說的是，成熟電力總體疲軟，尤其是第三季度中國的疲軟，是導致預訂率下降的原因。所以，是的，這將納入我們對 2025 年上半年相對於 2024 年下半年的初步看法的預期。

And when we think about that, it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that Q1 could be lower than Q4 obviously, I think it's an obvious statement, but Q1 could be lower than Q4 as a result of that. Broadly speaking 2025, we need that recovery in the general mature and power space to kind of see growth. Again, unless there's some meaningful recovery there, we could be down year over year, but we'll have more full year commentary as we got prepare our results, get greater visibility into '25 -- 2025 and have our earnings call in the fourth quarter.

當我們考慮到這一點時，假設 Q1 明顯低於 Q4 並不是沒有道理的，我認為這是一個顯而易見的說法，但因此 Q1 可能低於 Q4。從廣義上講，到 2025 年，我們需要整體成熟和電力空間的復甦才能看到成長。Again, unless there's some meaningful recovery there, we could be down year over year, but we'll have more full year commentary as we got prepare our results, get greater visibility into '25 -- 2025 and have our earnings call in the fourth四分之一.

Got it. Thank you, Jamie.

知道了。謝謝你，傑米。

Dave Duley, Steelhead Securities.

戴夫杜利 (Dave Duley)，Steelhead 證券公司。

Thank you. Good morning. I was wondering I think --

謝謝。早安.我想知道我想--

Hey David.

嘿大衛。

Hi. I saw that the China revenue, I think was 71% of revenue in the third quarter. Could you give us an idea of what you think the percentage will be in Q4 and in the first half of next year. I'm assuming that the Chinese revenue is what is going to be down in the first half of next year, but maybe I'm wrong.

你好。我看到中國的收入佔第三季收入的 71%。您能否告訴我們您認為第四季和明年上半年的百分比是多少？我假設明年上半年中國的收入將會下降，但也許我錯了。

Yeah. So I think, David, that's a great question. That the elevated levels here in the third quarter we're largely attributable to the image sensor business, within the region as we supported one of our customers there who's building out some incremental capacity for smartphone. I think if you were to kind of normalize that we had said coming into the year that we'd be somewhere in that sort of 40% to 60% range by quarter, so in going into Q4, we would expect that to come down -- the China exposure to come down back into those relative levels, obviously mix by region is going to be a primary driver of that once we get there.

是的。所以我認為，大衛，這是一個很好的問題。第三季的水平上升主要歸功於該地區的影像感測器業務，因為我們為那裡的一位客戶提供了支持，該客戶正在為智慧型手機增加一些產能。我認為，如果你要正常化的話，我們曾說過，進入今年，我們每個季度都會處於 40% 到 60% 的範圍內，所以進入第四季度，我們預計這一比例會下降 - - 中國的風險敞口將回落到這些相對水平，顯然，一旦我們到達那裡，各地區的混合將成為主要驅動力。

Going into 2025 you're right, and as we said in the prepared remarks, I would say we are seeing softness in general mature and power broadly and then particularly we're seeing some, softness in China as we look to the first half. So we would expect that it may as a percentage of sales, right, we have to see where the ultimate mix is to determine what that would be as a percentage of total sales. But we are seeing, I think in the -- preliminarily we're seeing the actual dollar values come down.

進入2025 年，你是對的，正如我們在準備好的發言中所說，我想說，我們看到總體上趨於成熟和廣泛的力量，特別是當我們展望上半年時，我們看到中國的一些疲軟。因此，我們預計它可能佔銷售額的百分比，對吧，我們必須看看最終的組合在哪裡，以確定佔總銷售額的百分比。但我認為，我們初步看到實際美元價值下降。

Okay. And then far as silicon carbide in China in the first half of next year, would you expect that to be down versus the second half of 2024 or is silicon carbide still strong in China in the first half of next year?

好的。那麼明年上半年中國的碳化矽，您預計會比2024年下半年下降，還是明年上半年中國的碳化矽仍然強勁？

So I think we're expecting silicon car by in China to be down in the first half of next year compared to the second half of this year. And I think we are attributing that to a digestion phase. So we've still got a large backlog. We have seen a number of customers kind of push out that backlog -- push out the delivery dates, which probably is weighing a little bit on our book to bill, right. Why place on the PO and you've still got outstanding POs that you're waiting for.

因此，我認為我們預計明年上半年中國的矽汽車銷量將比今年下半年下降。我認為我們將其歸因於消化階段。所以我們仍然有大量積壓。我們已經看到許多客戶推遲了積壓的訂單，推遲了交貨日期，這可能對我們的帳單產生了一些影響，對吧。為什麼要放置採購訂單，而您仍然有正在等待的未完成採購訂單。

But I do think it's a digestion period and I think it's a period of time where, you're going to see the maturation of the processes occur. So the yield improves, the reliability improves. And then once that's got more maturity, then I think you're going to see some of these companies expanding, because remember a lot of these are like pilot lines -- mini lines, there's a lot of the Tier two aren't actually in high volume. So they want to make sure they've got their act together before they drive meaningful capacity.

但我確實認為這是一個消化期，我認為在這段時間裡，你會看到流程的成熟。因此成品率提高，可靠性提高。然後，一旦變得更加成熟，那麼我認為你會看到其中一些公司擴張，因為記住其中很多就像試點線 - 迷你線，有很多二級公司實際上並不在高容量。因此，他們希望確保在發揮有意義的能力之前先採取行動。

Yeah, so the customers are focused on reliability at this point so that they can more meaningfully provide into the domestic EP production market and drive the cost down to be able to support that self-efficiency goal. And we're partnering with our customers in that region to help them do that. And so during this time of digestion, we actually are going to continue to make investments in that portion of the business, work with the customers and their road maps. And again, like we said a little bit earlier we are continue to position us to accelerate on the sort of return to growth inside of the markets.

是的，所以客戶此時關注的是可靠性，以便他們能夠更有意義地向國內 EP 生產市場提供產品，並降低成本，從而能夠支持自我效率目標。我們正在與該地區的客戶合作，幫助他們做到這一點。因此，在這段消化時期，我們實際上將繼續對這部分業務進行投資，並與客戶及其路線圖合作。再次，就像我們之前所說的那樣，我們將繼續加速市場內部成長的恢復。

I think, that's a great point, Jamie. So we've kind of said that the these silicon carbide customers in China are underweight relative to the opportunities for EVs. And naturally their goal is to become a world provider of silicon carbide. So they've got a long way to go very much in the early innings. So we still see this as a cycle on what is otherwise a strong secular growth opportunity for us.

我認為這是一個很好的觀點，傑米。因此，我們可以說，相對於電動車的機會，中國的這些碳化矽客戶的權重偏低。他們的目標自然是成為世界碳化矽供應商。所以他們在前幾局還有很長的路要走。因此，我們仍然認為這是一個週期，否則這對我們來說是一個強勁的長期成長機會。

Okay. Couple follow-ons just maybe you could help us with the utilization rates of your equipment. You can hear on the US and European SIC conference calls of your customers, that business is not really growing at this point or they're in digestion mode or trying to figure out lowering their CapEx and whatnot. So I'm just kind of curious what the utilization rates are in US and Europe and then, are they much different in China than they are in those geographic regions?

好的。幾個後續行動也許您可以幫助我們提高設備的利用率。您可以在美國和歐洲的 SIC 電話會議上聽到您的客戶表示，目前業務並未真正增長，或者他們正處於消化模式或試圖降低資本支出等等。所以我只是好奇美國和歐洲的利用率是多少，然後，中國的利用率與這些地理區域的使用率有很大不同嗎？

Are you talking of -- which with any given market type, you talk about memory or certain carbon? What are you -- which are you talking about?

您是在談論——對於任何給定的市場類型，您談論的是內存或某些碳嗎？你是什​​麼——你在說什麼？

Just in general the utilization rates of your tools in the marketplace if you'd like to say. I'm more interested in silicon carbide than anything else. But however, you'd like to answer the question would be great.

如果您想說的話，一般來說是您的工具在市場上的使用率。我對碳化矽比其他任何東西都更感興趣。但是，您願意回答這個問題就太好了。

Yeah. No worries. David.

是的。不用擔心。大衛.

I think we understand.

我想我們明白了。

Yeah. I think broadly what we're seeing is that the continued softness, in obviously with memory being where it is right now, we are probably seeing a little bit of a spike in some utilization as tools are being used to help drive HBM. But that is limiting the sales of new tools until they start adding capacity as Russell noted.

是的。我認為，總的來說，我們看到的是持續的疲軟，顯然內存目前所處的位置，我們可能會看到一些利用率的峰值，因為工具被用來幫助驅動 HBM。但這限制了新工具的銷售，直到它們開始增加產能，正如拉塞爾所指出的。

I think as we look at general mature and expectation for power, you're going to see utilizations, given our CS&I numbers are down period over period, that'll probably give you some indication of the utilization rates that's going to be an indicator of overall utilization is the spares consumables opportunities we have inside of that mix. So again, although we don't comment on specific customers regions or markets, I think generally we're comfortable saying that utilizations are down.

我認為，當我們考慮整體成熟度和對電力的期望時，您將看到利用率，因為我們的CS&I 數據在一段時間內呈下降趨勢，這可能會給您一些利用率的指示，這將成為一個指標總體利用率是我們在該組合中擁有的備件消耗品機會。再說一次，儘管我們不對特定客戶地區或市場發表評論，但我認為總的來說，我們可以放心地說利用率下降了。

Okay. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

Yeah.

是的。

Thank you. This concludes the question and answer session. I would now like to turn it back to David Ryzhik for closing remarks.

謝謝。問答環節到此結束。現在我想請戴維·雷日克 (David Ryzhik) 發表結束語。

Thank you. I want to thank everybody for joining us on this call. Operator, you can close the call.

謝謝。我要感謝大家參加這次電話會議。接線員，您可以結束通話了。

Thank you so much for your participation in today's conference. This does conclude the program. You may now disconnect.

非常感謝您參加今天的會議。這確實結束了該程式。您現在可以斷開連線。