Arbor Realty Trust Inc (ABR) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the third quarter 2024 Arbor Realty Trust earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. (Operator Instructions) I would now like to turn the call over to your speaker today, Paul Elenio, Chief Financial Officer. Please go ahead.

早安，女士們、先生們，歡迎參加 Arbor Realty Trust 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）請注意，今天的會議正在錄製中。（操作員指示）我現在想將電話轉給今天的發言人，財務長 Paul Elenio。請繼續。

Okay. Thank you, Jamie, and good morning, everyone, and welcome to the quarterly earnings call for Arbor Realty Trust. This morning, we'll discuss the results for the quarter ended September 30, 2024. With me on the call today is Ivan Kaufman, our President and Chief Executive Officer.

好的。謝謝傑米，大家早上好，歡迎參加 Arbor Realty Trust 的季度收益電話會議。今天早上，我們將討論截至 2024 年 9 月 30 日的季度業績。今天與我一起參加電話會議的是我們的總裁兼執行長 Ivan Kaufman。

Before we begin, I need to inform these statements made in this earnings call may be deemed forward-looking statements that are subject to risks and uncertainties, including information about possible or assumed future results of our business, financial condition, liquidity, results of operations, plans, and objectives.

在我們開始之前，我需要告知，本次收益電話會議中所做的這些陳述可能被視為前瞻性陳述，受到風險和不確定性的影響，包括有關我們業務可能或假設的未來結果、財務狀況、流動性、營運結果的資訊、計畫和目標。

These statements are based on our beliefs, assumptions, and expectations of our future performance, taking into account the information currently available to us. Factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from Arbor's expectations in these forward-looking statements are detailed in our SEC reports. Listeners are cautioned not to place undue reliance on these forward-looking statements, which speak only as of today.

這些陳述是基於我們對未來業績的信念、假設和預期，並考慮了我們目前掌握的資訊。我們的 SEC 報告詳細介紹了可能導致實際結果與 Arbor 在這些前瞻性聲明中的預期存在重大差異的因素。請聽眾不要過度依賴這些前瞻性陳述，這些陳述僅截至今天為止。

Arbor undertakes no obligation to publicly update or revise these forward-looking statements to reflect events or circumstances after today or the occurrences of unanticipated events. I'll now turn the call over to Arbor's President and CEO, Ivan Kaufman.

Arbor 不承擔公開更新或修改這些前瞻性陳述以反映今天之後的事件或情況或意外事件發生的義務。現在我將把電話轉給 Arbor 的總裁兼執行長 Ivan Kaufman。

Thank you, Paul, and thanks to everyone for joining us on today's call. As you can see from this morning's press release, we had another strong quarter as we continue to effectively navigate through this challenging environment.

謝謝保羅，也謝謝大家參加今天的電話會議。正如您從今天早上的新聞稿中看到的那樣，我們在繼續有效應對這一充滿挑戰的環境的同時，又迎來了一個強勁的季度。

As we discussed in the past, we appropriately positioned the company to succeed in this market, and we are executing our business plan very effectively and in line with our expectations. We have a diversified business model with many countercyclical income streams are invested in the right asset class with the appropriate liability structures and are well-capitalized, which has allowed us to consistently outperform our peers in every major financial category over a long period of time and by a wide margin.

正如我們過去所討論的，我們對公司進行了適當的定位，以便在這個市場上取得成功，並且我們正在非常有效地執行我們的業務計劃，並且符合我們的期望。我們擁有多元化的業務模式，許多反週期收入流投資於具有適當負債結構的正確資產類別，並且資本充足，這使我們能夠在很長一段時間內在每個主要金融類別中持續優於同行，並且大幅領先。

In fact, most of our peers have cut their dividends substantially, have experienced significant book value erosion and have generated a negative total shareholder return over the last five years. As we have stated many times, and as you can clearly see from the charts posted on our website, our results have been nothing short of remarkable and we are a consistent outperforming and leader in the space.

事實上，過去五年來，我們的大多數同業都大幅削減了股息，帳面價值大幅下降，股東總回報為負。正如我們多次聲明的那樣，並且您可以從我們網站上發布的圖表中清楚地看到，我們的業績非常出色，並且我們在該領域始終表現出色，處於領先地位。

As we discussed on the last few calls, we expected the first two quarters of this year to be the most challenging part of the cycle. I also thought it could leak into the third and fourth quarters as well as rates remained higher for longer.

正如我們在過去幾次電話會議中討論的那樣，我們預計今年前兩個季度將是該週期中最具挑戰性的部分。我還認為它可能會滲透到第三和第四季度，並且利率會在更長時間內保持在較高水平。

With the recent 50 basis point rate cut by the Fed and a significant drop in the tenure to a low of around [3.60], we began to see a much more positive outlook as a result of cap costs becoming far less expensive and borrowers being able to access 5 and 10 year fixed rate agency deals and buyers moving off the sidelines and becoming extremely active in the market.

隨著聯準會最近降息 50 個基點，期限大幅下降至 [3.60] 左右的低點，我們開始看到更積極的前景，因為上限成本變得更便宜，借款人能夠獲得5 年期和10 年期固定利率代理交易，買家不再觀望，在市場上變得異常活躍。

However, there's been a backdrop in the tenure again to [4.25], which has somewhat changed the tenor. And we now believe that the recovery will be a little bit slower and could lead to a challenging fourth quarter, which is consistent with our previous guidance.

然而，[4.25] 的任期再次出現了一個背景，這在一定程度上改變了基調。我們現在認為復甦會稍微慢一些，並可能導致第四季度充滿挑戰，這與我們先前的指導一致。

We continue to do a very effective job of working through our portfolio by getting bars to recap their deals and purchase interest rate caps. In the third quarter, we modified another $1.2 billion of loans with $43 million of fresh equity committed to be injected into these deals from the sponsors.

我們繼續透過讓金條回顧其交易併購買利率上限來非常有效地處理我們的投資組合。第三季度，我們修改了 12 億美元的貸款，並承諾從贊助商向這些交易注入 4,300 萬美元的新股本。

This includes collect cash to purchase new interest rate caps, fund interest, and renovation reserves, bring past interest to current and pay down loan balance and where appropriate. We also continue to make progress in line with our previous guidance on the approximately $1 billion of loans that were passed due at June 30 by either modifying these loans for closing taking them into REO or bringing in new sponsorship either consensually or simultaneously with the foreclosure.

這包括收集現金以購買新的利率上限、基金利息和裝修準備金、將過去的利息轉為當前利息並在適當的情況下償還貸款餘額。我們也繼續按照我們先前對6 月30 日到期的約10 億美元貸款的指導取得進展，修改這些貸款以將其納入REO，或者在雙方同意的情況下或在取消抵押品贖回權的同時引入新的贊助。

Last quarter, we discussed our plans for these loans, and we estimated that approximately 30% to 35% of the pool would be modified, another 30% to 35% would pay off and the remaining 30% would be taken back as REO. In the third quarter, we successfully modified $250 million of these loans or 23%, and we expect to modify another roughly 10% in the fourth quarter.

上個季度，我們討論了這些貸款的計劃，我們估計大約 30% 至 35% 的貸款池將被修改，另外 30% 至 35% 將得到償還，剩餘的 30% 將作為 REO 收回。第三季度，我們成功修改了這些貸款的 2.5 億美元，即 23%，我們預計第四季度將再修改約 10%。

We also had one delinquent loan for $8 million payoff in full in the third quarter and we're expecting another $300 million-plus of delinquencies to payoff over the next few quarters. Additionally, we took back as REO roughly $77 million of loans in the third quarter and are expecting to take back another $250 million-plus over the next few quarters.

我們還有一筆拖欠貸款，在第三季全額還清了 800 萬美元，我們預計在接下來的幾季還會還清另外 3 億多美元的拖欠貸款。此外，我們作為 REO 在第三季度收回了大約 7,700 萬美元的貸款，並預計在接下來的幾個季度再收回 2.5 億美元以上的貸款。

This is strong progress in one quarter and has reduced to $1 billion in delinquencies we had at June 30, down to just over $700 million at September 30 or a 30% decrease. But as expected, we did experience additional delinquencies during the quarter of approximately $225 million, bringing our total delinquencies at September 30 to approximately $945 million, which is down 10% from a peak in the second quarter.

這是一個季度的巨大進展，截至 6 月 30 日，我們的拖欠額已減少至 10 億美元，到 9 月 30 日，拖欠額已減少至略高於 7 億美元，即減少了 30%。但正如預期的那樣，我們在本季度確實出現了約 2.25 億美元的額外拖欠，使我們截至 9 月 30 日的拖欠總額達到約 9.45 億美元，比第二季度的峰值下降了 10%。

And while we anticipate having additional delinquencies in this environment, we believe our resolutions will exceed new defaults, resulting in a continued decline in our total delinquencies. It is also very important to distinguish between REOs we take back and bring in a new sponsorship to operate and assume debt and REOs we own and operate ourselves.

雖然我們預計在這種環境下會出現更多的拖欠行為，但我們相信我們的解決方案將超過新的違約行為，從而導致我們的拖欠總額持續下降。區分我們收回並引入新的贊助來運營和承擔債務的 REO 與我們自己擁有和運營的 REO 也非常重要。

Of the $77 million of REOs we took back in Q3, $20 million, we successfully brought in new sponsors to operate and assume our debt. And $57 million, we now own and operate directly. We are working exceptionally hard in the resolving our delinquencies in accordance with our plan, which when achieved, will convert non-interest earning assets into income-producing investments that will be highly accretive to our future earnings.

在我們第三季收回的 7,700 萬美元 REO 中，我們成功引入了新的贊助商來運作並承擔我們的債務，其中 2,000 萬美元。我們現在直接擁有並經營 5700 萬美元。我們正在按照我們的計劃非常努力地解決我們的拖欠問題，一旦實現，我們將把非生息資產轉化為創收投資，這將極大地增加我們未來的收益。

This is a challenging demand and work, and I'm very pleased with the progress we are making in resolving our delinquencies in accordance with our objectives. We also continue to focus on maintaining adequate liquidity levels and the appropriate liability structures, which is critical to our success in this environment.

這是一項具有挑戰性的要求和工作，我對我們在按照我們的目標解決拖欠問題方面所取得的進展感到非常高興。我們也持續致力於維持充足的流動性水準和適當的負債結構，這對我們在這種環境下取得成功至關重要。

Currently, we have approximately $600 million in cash and liquidity, providing us with the flexibility we needed to manage through the balance of this downturn and take advantage of the opportunities that exist in this market to generate formal terms on our capital.

目前，我們擁有約 6 億美元的現金和流動資金，為我們提供了在經濟低迷時期進行管理所需的靈活性，並利用該市場中存在的機會為我們的資本製定正式條款。

One of these opportunities is our bridge lending platform. And I have said before, some of the best times -- some of the best loans are made in the bottom of the cycle. We believe now is the appropriate time to start ramping up our bridge lending program again and take advantage of the opportunities that exist in the market to originate high-quality short-term bridge loans allowing us to generate strong level returns on our capital in the short run, while continuing to build up a significant pipeline of future agency deals, which is critical to our strategy.

這些機會之一是我們的過橋貸款平台。我之前說過，一些最好的時期——一些最好的貸款是在周期的底部發放的。我們相信，現在是再次開始加強過橋貸款計劃的適當時機，並利用市場上存在的機會發放高質量的短期過橋貸款，使我們能夠在短期內獲得強勁的資本回報。代理交易的重要管道，這對我們的策略至關重要。

We have also done an excellent job on deleveraging our balance sheet, reducing our exposure to short-term bank debt. We have approximately $2.9 billion in outstandings with our commercial banks, which is down from a peak of $4 billion, and we have 65% of the secured nets in non-mark-to-market, non-recourse low CLO vehicles.

我們在去槓桿化資產負債表、減少短期銀行債務風險方面也做得非常好。我們在商業銀行的未償還債務約為 29 億美元，低於 40 億美元的峰值，而且我們 65% 的擔保網絡是非按市價計價、無追索權的低 CLO 工具。

Our CLOs are a major part of our business strategy, and they provide us with a tremendous strategic advantage in times of distress and dislocation due to the nature of the non-mark-to-market, non-recourse elements. In addition, they contributed significantly to providing a lower cost alternative for warehousing banks, which in times like this are fluctuating pricing and leverage points parameters.

我們的 CLO 是我們業務策略的重要組成部分，由於非以市價計價、無追索權要素的性質，它們為我們在困境和混亂時期提供了巨大的戰略優勢。此外，它們也為倉儲銀行提供了一種成本較低的替代方案做出了重大貢獻，在這樣的時期，倉儲銀行的定價和槓桿點參數不斷波動。

In fact, one of the significant drivers of our income streams are our low-cost CLO vehicles as well as a fixed rate debt and equity instruments that make up a big part of our capital structure. We were very strategic in our approach to capitalizing our business with a substantial amount of low-cost, long-dated funding sources, which has allowed us to continue to generate outsized returns on our capital.

事實上，我們收入流的重要驅動因素之一是我們的低成本 CLO 工具以及構成我們資本結構重要組成部分的固定利率債務和股權工具。我們非常具有策略性地利用大量低成本、長期的資金來源來利用我們的業務，這使我們能夠繼續產生巨額資本回報。

Another major component of our unique business model is our significant agency platform, which offers a premium value, as it requires limited capital and generates significant long-dated predictable income streams and produces considerable annual cash flow. In the third quarter, we produced $1.1 billion of agency originations, which was in line with our second quarter volumes.

我們獨特的商業模式的另一個主要組成部分是我們重要的代理平台，它提供了溢價，因為它需要有限的資本並產生大量的長期可預測收入流，並產生可觀的年度現金流。第三季度，我們產生了 11 億美元的代理發起資金，這與第二季度的數量一致。

In the third quarter, we also saw a big dip in the tenure to a range of [3.60 to 3.80], which immediately resulted in a massive increase in our agency pipeline to approximately $1.9 billion, which is one of the highest levels we have ever seen.

在第三季度，我們還看到任期大幅下降至 [3.60 至 3.80] 範圍，這立即導致我們的代理管道大幅增加至約 19 億美元，這是我們有史以來的最高水平之一看到了。

During that time frame, the agencies got significantly backed up by creating a delay of three to six weeks, which certainly affected the timing of our closures, which compounded by the recent backup in rates is solvable above 4% again.

在此期間，各機構透過造成三到六週的延遲而得到了大力支持，這肯定影響了我們關閉的時間，再加上最近的利率支持再次超過 4%，這一點變得更加複雜。

As a result of these factors and given the magnitude of our pipeline, we are guiding our fourth quarter volumes to be in the range of $1.2 billion to $1.5 billion, which is very rate dependent. If rates stay at these levels, we are confident we can originate $1.2 billion in the fourth quarter, but if rates get meaningfully below 4%, again, we can produce the confident of our ranges for $1.5 billion.

由於這些因素以及我們的管道規模，我們預計第四季度的銷量將在 12 億美元至 15 億美元之間，這在很大程度上取決於利率。如果利率保持在這些水平，我們有信心在第四季度創造 12 億美元的收入，但如果利率明顯低於 4%，我們就有信心在我們的範圍內創造 15 億美元的收入。

We also continued to do an effective job at converting our balance sheet loans into agency product, which has always been one of our key strategies and a significant differentiator from our peers. In the third quarter, we generated $520 million of payoffs and $385 million or 74% of these loans being refinanced into fixed rate agency deals for the first nine months of this year, we captured over 60% or $1.1 billion of our balance sheet runoff into agency production.

我們也繼續有效地將資產負債表貸款轉化為代理產品，這一直是我們的關鍵策略之一，也是與同業的顯著差異。第三季度，我們產生了5.2 億美元的回報，今年前9 個月，這些貸款的3.85 億美元（即74%）被再融資為固定利率代理交易，我們將資產負債表徑流的60%（即11 億美元）投入固定利率代理交易。

And as I have said in the past, if interest rates continue to decline, we expect that this will become an even more meaningful part of our business going forward. Our fee-based servicing portfolio, which grew another 2% this quarter and 10% year over year compared to $3 billion, generates approximately $125 million a year in recurring cash flow.

正如我過去所說，如果利率繼續下降，我們預計這將成為我們未來業務中更有意義的一部分。與 30 億美元相比，我們的收費服務組合本季又成長了 2%，年增了 10%，每年產生約 1.25 億美元的經常性現金流。

We also generate significant earnings on our strong cash balances. In fact, we are earning 4.6% on around $2.3 billion of balances or roughly $120 million annually, which combined with our servicing income and annuity totals $235 million of annual gross cash earnings or $1.15 a share.

我們也憑藉強勁的現金餘額產生了可觀的收入。事實上，我們約23 億美元的餘額（即每年約1.2 億美元）賺取了4.6% 的利潤，加上我們的服務收入和年金，年度總現金收入總計為2.35 億美元，即每股1.15 美元。

This is in addition to the strong gain on sale margins we generate from our origination's platform. And it's extremely important to emphasize that our agency business generates over 45% of our net revenues. The vast majority of which occurs before we even turn the lights on every day. This is completely unique to our platform.

除此之外，我們也從我們的原創平台獲得了強勁的銷售利潤成長。需要強調的是，我們的代理業務占我們淨收入的 45% 以上。其中絕大多數發生在我們每天開燈之前。這對我們的平台來說是完全獨特的。

We continue to do an excellent job in growing our single-family rental business. We had another strong quarter with $240 million of fundings and another $375 million of commitments signed up, which now brings our nine-month numbers to $1.1 billion, which is already right on top of the total we've produced for all of last year and brings our total commitment volume to $4.6 billion from this platform.

我們在發展單戶租賃業務方面持續表現出色。我們又度過了一個強勁的季度，獲得了2.4 億美元的資金，並簽署了另外3.75 億美元的承諾，這使我們9 個月的數字達到11 億美元，這已經超過了我們去年全年的生產總額，使我們透過該平台的承諾總額達到 46 億美元。

Additionally, we have a large pipeline and remain committed to doing this business that it offers us three turns on our capital through construction, bridge, and permanent lending opportunities and generate strong level of returns in the short term, while providing significant long-term benefits by further diversifying our income streams.

此外，我們擁有龐大的管道，並繼續致力於開展這項業務，它透過建設、橋樑和永久貸款機會為我們提供了三種資本週轉機會，並在短期內產生強勁的回報，同時提供顯著的長期效益進一步使我們的收入來源多樣化。

We also continue to make steady progress in our newly added construction lending business. This is a business we believe can produce a very accretive returns to our capital by generating 10% to 12% unlevered returns initially and mid to high level returns on our capital when we obtain leverage.

我們新增的建築貸款業務也持續穩定發展。我們相信，這項業務最初可以產生 10% 至 12% 的無槓桿回報，而當我們獲得槓桿時，可以產生中等到高水平的資本回報，從而為我們的資本帶來非常豐厚的回報。

We closed our first deal in the third quarter for $47 million, and we continue to see growth in our pipeline with roughly $300 million under application and $200 million in LOIs and $600 million of additional deals in the current screening.

我們在第三季以4700 萬美元的價格完成了第一筆交易，我們的管道繼續增長，正在申請中的金額約為3 億美元，意向書金額為2 億美元，當前篩選中的額外交易金額為6 億美元。

We believe this product is very appropriate for our platform, and it offers us three turns on our capital through construction, bridge, and permanent agency lending opportunities. And again, between our SOFR and construction lending products, we expect to be able to continue to grow our balance sheet loan book and generate strong returns on our capital, while very importantly, seeing a significant amount of our future agency production.

我們相信該產品非常適合我們的平台，它透過建設、橋樑和永久代理貸款機會為我們提供了三種資本週轉機會。同樣，在我們的SOFR 和建築貸款產品之間，我們預計能夠繼續擴大我們的資產負債表貸款帳簿，並為我們的資本帶來強勁的回報，同時非常重要的是，我們未來將看到大量的代理生產。

In summary, we had another productive quarter, and we are working very hard to manage through the balance of this dislocation. We feel we have done an excellent job in working through our loan book and in getting bars to recap their deals with fresh equity as well as bringing in quality sponsors to manage underperforming assets and working through our nonperforming loans.

總而言之，我們又度過了一個富有成效的季度，我們正在非常努力地管理這種混亂的平衡。我們認為，我們在處理貸款帳簿、讓酒吧用新股權重述其交易、引入優質保薦人來管理表現不佳的資產以及處理不良貸款方面做得非常出色。

We realize that although the market backdrop is improving, there is still a lot of work to be done to manage through this environment. And we believe we are well-positioned to execute our business plan and continue to outperform our peers. I will now turn the call over to Paul to take you through the financial results.

我們意識到，儘管市場環境正在改善，但仍需做很多工作來應對這種環境。我們相信我們有能力執行我們的業務計劃並繼續超越同行。現在我將把電話轉給保羅，讓他向您介紹財務表現。

Okay. Thank you, Ivan. We had another strong quarter, producing distributable earnings of $88 million or $0.43 per share, which translated into ROEs of approximately 14% for the third quarter. As Ivan mentioned, we modified another 24 loans in the third quarter, totaling $1.2 billion.

好的。謝謝你，伊凡。我們又度過了一個強勁的季度，可分配收益為 8,800 萬美元，即每股 0.43 美元，換算成第三季度的 ROE 約為 14%。正如伊凡所提到的，我們在第三季又修改了 24 筆貸款，總額達 12 億美元。

Approximately $710 million of those loans, we require borrowers to invest additional capital to recap their deals with us providing some form of temporary rate release through paying accrual feature. The pay rates were modified an average to approximately 6% with 2.5% of the residual interest due being deferred into maturity. $240 million of these loans were delinquent last quarter and are now current in accordance with their modified terms.

其中約 7.1 億美元的貸款，我們要求借款人投入額外的資本來回顧他們與我們的交易，透過支付應計功能提供某種形式的臨時利率釋放。平均支付率調整為約 6%，其中 2.5% 的剩餘利息延期至到期。這些貸款中有 2.4 億美元上季拖欠，目前已按照修改後的條款償還。

Our total delinquencies are down 10% to $945 million at September 30, compared to $1.05 billion at June 30. These delinquencies are made up of two buckets, loans that are greater than 60 days past due and loans that are less than 60 days past due that we're not recording interest income on unless we believe the cash will be received.

截至 9 月 30 日，我們的拖欠總額下降了 10%，達到 9.45 億美元，而 6 月 30 日為 10.5 億美元。這些拖欠由兩類組成：逾期超過 60 天的貸款和逾期不到 60 天的貸款，除非我們相信會收到現金，否則我們不會記錄利息收入。

The 60-plus day delinquent loans or nonperforming loans were approximately $625 million this quarter compared to $676 million last quarter due to approximately $152 million of modifications, $77 million of loans taken back as REO, which was partially offset by $110 million of loans progressing from less than 60 days delinquent to greater than 60 days past due and $68 million of additional defaulted loans during the quarter.

本季60 多天的拖欠貸款或不良貸款約為6.25 億美元，而上季為6.76 億美元，原因是約1.52 億美元的修改，7,700 萬美元的貸款作為REO 收回，部分被1.1 億美元的貸款抵銷。

The second bucket, consisting of loans that are less than 60 days past due, also came down to $319 million this quarter from $368 million last quarter, due to $88 million of modifications, $110 million of loans progressing to greater than 60 days past due, an $8 million payoff, which was partially offset by approximately $157 million of new delinquencies during the quarter.

第二類貸款包括逾期不到 60 天的貸款，由於 8,800 萬美元的修改，本季也從上季的 3.68 億美元降至 3.19 億美元，其中 1.1 億美元的貸款逾期超過 60 天， 800 萬美元的還款額被本季約1.57 億美元的新拖欠額部分抵銷。

And while we're making good progress in resolving these delinquencies in accordance with our objectives that we discussed earlier, at the same time, we do anticipate that there could be new delinquencies in this environment. As Ivan mentioned in accordance with our plans of resolving certain delinquencies, we have started to take back real estate in the third quarter and we expect to take back more over the next few quarters.

雖然我們在按照我們之前討論的目標解決這些拖欠問題方面取得了良好進展，但與此同時，我們確實預計在這種環境下可能會出現新的拖欠問題。正如伊凡所提到的，根據我們解決某些拖欠問題的計劃，我們已開始在第三季度收回房地產，並預計在接下來的幾個季度將收回更多。

The process of taking control and working to improve these assets and create more of a current income stream takes time, which, as I mentioned on our last call, will likely result in a low watermark for net interest income over the next couple of quarters until we have worked through this portfolio.

控制並努力改善這些資產並創造更多當前收入流的過程需要時間，正如我在上次電話會議中提到的那樣，這可能會導致未來幾季的淨利息收入處於較低水位，直到我們已經完成了這個投資組合。

This is what we expected and is consistent with our previous guidance that this would be the period of peak stress at the bottom of the cycle. In line with our strategy of taking back REO assets, we decided to break out our REO assets into a separate line item this quarter, which was previously included in other assets on our balance sheet.

這是我們的預期，也與我們先前的指導一致，即這將是周期底部的壓力峰值時期。根據我們收回 REO 資產的策略，我們決定本季將 REO 資產分解為單獨的項目，該項目之前包含在我們資產負債表上的其他資產中。

As Ivan discussed earlier, we took back approximately $77 million in assets in Q3, $57 million of which we currently own and operate, which was accounted for as REO, and roughly $20 million that we had brought in new sponsorship to run and assume our debt, which was accounted for as a sale and a new loan in the third quarter.

正如Ivan 之前討論的那樣，我們在第三季度收回了大約7700 萬美元的資產，其中5700 萬美元是我們目前擁有和運營的資產，被計為REO，大約2000 萬美元是我們引入新贊助來運營和承擔我們的債務的。

The other roughly $78 million in REO on our balance sheet at 9/30, with deals taken back in previous years that were included in other assets in the past. We also continue to build our CECL reserves given the current environment, record an additional $16 million in reserves in our balance sheet loan book in the third quarter.

9 月 30 日，我們的資產負債表上還有大約 7,800 萬美元的 REO，這些交易是在前幾年收回的，並包含在過去的其他資產中。鑑於當前環境，我們也繼續建立 CECL 準備金，第三季我們的資產負債表貸款帳簿中額外記錄了 1,600 萬美元的準備金。

It's important to continue to emphasize that despite booking approximately $162 million in seasonal reserves across our platform in the last 18 months, $132 million of which were in our balance sheet business, we were still able to maintain our book value. This performance is well above our peers, the vast majority of which have experienced significant book value erosion in this market.

需要繼續強調的是，儘管過去18 個月在我們的平台上預訂了約1.62 億美元的季節性準備金，其中1.32 億美元在我們的資產負債表業務中，但我們仍然能夠維持我們的賬面價值。這一業績遠高於我們的同行，絕大多數同行在這個市場上都經歷了帳面價值的嚴重侵蝕。

Additionally, we are one of the only companies in our space that has seen significant book value appreciation over the last five years, with 28% growth in that time period versus our peers whose book values have declined on average approximately 22%.

此外，我們是過去五年中帳面價值大幅升值的唯一公司之一，同期帳面價值成長了 28%，而同業的帳面價值平均下降了約 22%。

In our agency business, we had a solid second quarter with $1.1 billion in originations and loan sales. The margins on our loan sales was up to 1.67% for the third quarter from 1.54% last quarter. We also recorded $13.2 million of mortgage servicing rights income related to $1.1 billion of committed loans in the third quarter, representing an average MSR rate of around 1.25%.

在我們的代理業務中，我們第二季表現強勁，發起和貸款銷售達到 11 億美元。第三季我們的貸款銷售利潤率從上季的 1.54% 升至 1.67%。第三季度，我們也記錄了與 11 億美元承諾貸款相關的 1,320 萬美元抵押貸款服務權收入，平均 MSR 率為 1.25% 左右。

Our fee-based servicing portfolio also grew to approximately $33 billion at September 30, with a weighted average servicing fee of 38 basis points and an estimated remaining life of seven years. This portfolio will continue to generate a predictable annuity of income going forward of around $125 million gross annually.

截至 9 月 30 日，我們的收費服務組合也成長至約 330 億美元，加權平均服務費為 38 個基點，預計剩餘壽命為 7 年。該投資組合將繼續產生每年約 1.25 億美元的可預測年金收入。

And this income stream, combined with our earnings on escrows and gain on sale margins represents over 45% of our net revenues. In our balance sheet lending operation, our $11.6 billion investment portfolio and an all-in yield of 8.16% at September 30, compared to 8.60% at June 30, mainly due to a decrease in SOFR during the quarter.

這項收入流，加上我們的託管收入和銷售利潤收益，占我們淨收入的 45% 以上。在我們的資產負債表貸款業務中，我們的投資組合為 116 億美元，截至 9 月 30 日的總收益率為 8.16%，而 6 月 30 日為 8.60%，這主要是由於本季 SOFR 下降。

The average balance on core investments was $11.8 billion this quarter compared to $12.2 billion last quarter due to one-off exceeding originations in the second and third quarters. The average yield on these assets increased slightly to 9.04% from 9% last quarter, mainly due to slightly more back interest collected in the third quarter than the second quarter from third quarter modifications, which was partially offset by some new non-accrual loans in the third quarter.

本季核心投資平均餘額為 118 億美元，而上季為 122 億美元，原因是第二季和第三季一次性超支。這些資產的平均收益率從上季度的9%小幅上升至9.04%，主要是由於第三季調整後第三季收回的利息比第二季略多，部分被2019 年新增的非應計貸款抵銷。

Total debt on our core assets decreased to approximately $10 billion at September 30 from $10.3 billion at June 30, mostly due to paying down CLO debt with cash in those vehicles in the third quarter. The all-in cost of debt was down to approximately 7.18% at 9/30 versus 7.53% at 6/30, mostly due to a reduction in SOFR.

我們核心資產的總債務從 6 月 30 日的 103 億美元減少至 9 月 30 日的約 100 億美元，這主要是由於第三季度用這些工具中的現金償還了 CLO 債務。9/30 時的總債務成本降至約 7.18%，而 6/30 時為 7.53%，這主要是由於 SOFR 的減少。

The average balance on our debt facilities was down to approximately $10 billion for the third quarter compared to $10.8 billion last quarter, mainly due to the unwind of CLO 15 that occurred late in the second quarter combined with paydowns in our CLO vehicles from runoff in the third quarter.

第三季我們的債務融資平均餘額降至約 100 億美元，而上季為 108 億美元，這主要是由於第二季末 CLO 15 的解除，以及我們的 CLO 車輛因徑流而支付的款項。三季。

The average cost of funds in our debt facilities was up slightly to 7.58% for the third quarter from 7.54% for the second quarter. Our overall net interest spreads in our core assets was flat for both the second and third quarter at 1.46%.

我們債務融資的平均資金成本從第二季的 7.54% 小幅上升至第三季的 7.58%。我們核心資產的整體淨利差第二季和第三季持平，為 1.46%。

And our overall spot net interest spreads were down to 0.98% at September 30 from 1.07% at June 30, mostly due to less CLO debt outstanding, which has a lower cost of funds from paydowns during the quarter. We also continue to improve our financing sources, adding a new banking relationship with a $400 million warehouse facility that we closed in the third quarter.

我們的整體現貨淨利差從 6 月 30 日的 1.07% 降至 9 月 30 日的 0.98%，這主要是由於未償 CLO 債務減少，本季還款的資金成本較低。我們也繼續改善我們的融資來源，與我們在第三季關閉的價值 4 億美元的倉庫設施建立了新的銀行關係。

And lastly, but very significantly, as we continue to shrink our balance sheet loan book, we have delevered our business 25% over the last 18 months to a leverage ratio of 3:1 from a peak of around 4:1. Equally as important, our leverage consists of around 65% non-recourse, non-mark-to-market CLO debt with pricing that is still well below the current market, providing strong levered returns on our capital. That completes our prepared remarks for this morning. And I'll now turn it over to the operator to take any questions you may at this time. Jamie?

最後，但非常重要的是，隨著我們繼續縮減資產負債表貸款帳簿，我們在過去 18 個月內將業務去槓桿化了 25%，槓桿率從峰值 4:1 左右降至 3:1。同樣重要的是，我們的槓桿率由約 65% 的無追索權、非以市價計價的 CLO 債務組成，其定價仍遠低於當前市場，為我們的資本提供了強勁的槓桿回報。我們今天早上準備好的發言就到此結束了。現在我將把它轉交給接線員，回答您此時可能提出的任何問題。傑米？

(Operator Instructions) Steve DeLaney, Citizens JMP.

（操作員說明）Steve DeLaney，Citizens JMP。

Thanks for the helpful additional details on your NPLs and loan loss in the press release. That's very helpful. I was wondering, you've obviously built CECL reserves. I think Paul said whatever it was $180 million over the last 18 months. One thing that's not in your release, I guess we could find it in the reconciliation of your loss reserve.

感謝您在新聞稿中提供有關不良貸款和貸款損失的有用的附加詳細資訊。這非常有幫助。我想知道，你顯然已經建立了CECL儲備。我想保羅說的不管是過去 18 個月的 1.8 億美元。有一件事情沒有在您的發布中找到，我想我們可以在您的損失準備金調節表中找到它。

Could you comment about the actual amount of realized losses that you've taken this year and as you work through the whole process, do you think about it that way, Ivan, that there's paper, reserves, but at some point, in time, there's a real loss. And that's kind of what I'm getting at, if you could give us some idea of what the real losses look like compared to the loss reserves.

您能否評論一下您今年所承擔的實際損失金額？這就是我的意思，如果您能讓我們了解實際損失與損失準備金相比是什麼樣子。

Sure. So Steve, thanks for the question. It's Paul. So we haven't really had really any realized losses during the year. I think we had maybe a $1.5 million realized loss and last quarter or the first quarter, I forget, on small loan that we took back. But for the most part, some of the REO we took back during the quarter, we had some reserves on, and we took those back at fair value.

當然。史蒂夫，謝謝你的提問。是保羅。所以我們這一年並沒有真正實現任何損失。我想我們可能有 150 萬美元的已實現損失，我忘記了上個季度或第一季我們收回的小額貸款。但在大多數情況下，我們在本季度收回了一些 REO，我們有一些準備金，並且我們以公允價值收回了這些資金。

So until we dispose of those REO assets, we don't have a gain or a loss. So we've not seen any real significant realized losses, or any material realized losses. As you know, the $162 million that I guided to on the call that we booked in CECL reserves, $132 million in our balance sheet is already reflected in our book value. But as you said, it hasn't been realized.

因此，在我們處置這些 REO 資產之前，我們沒有收益或損失。因此，我們沒有看到任何真正重大的已實現損失，或任何重大已實現損失。如您所知，我在電話會議上指導的 1.62 億美元我們在 CECL 儲備金中登記，我們資產負債表中的 1.32 億美元已經反映在我們的賬面價值中。但正如你所說，它還沒有實現。

And it may -- we don't know how much, if any, will be realized. And it takes time to work through those assets and dispose of them. But at this juncture, we just haven't had any significant realized losses at this point.

我們可能不知道能實現多少（如果有的話）。處理並處置這些資產需要時間。但目前，我們還沒有任何重大的已實現損失。

Got it. That's helpful to understand. And just we noted in the press release, the $100 million three-year note issue at 9%. Could you comment on the purpose and use of proceeds. Just on the surface, it looks like expensive capital. Just curious what your thought process was with that.

知道了。這有助於理解。正如我們在新聞稿中指出的那樣，1 億美元的三年票據發行利率為 9%。您能否評論一下募集資金的用途和用途？從表面上看，這似乎是昂貴的資本。只是好奇你的思考過程是怎麼樣的。

Well, we felt it was appropriate price capital for what it is. It's a three-year capital. We didn't want to go out to a long time. And certainly, is accretive relative to where our dividend was, and it was an easy piece of capital to put in place. We're also seeing some pretty good opportunities in the mid-teens returns. So we thought it was probably priced given where we were in the cycle, and it was also important for us to not go out five or seven years to go out three years and not be too short. So it's just an easy piece of capital to put in place.

嗯，我們認為這是合適的資本價格。這是三年資本。我們很長一段時間都不想出去。當然，相對於我們的股息而言，這是增值的，而且這是一筆容易到位的資本。我們也看到了一些十幾歲左右回報的相當好的機會。所以我們認為，考慮到我們所處的周期，它的定價可能是合理的，而且對我們來說，不要花五年或七年，要花三年，而且不要太短，這一點也很重要。因此，這只是一筆容易到位的資本。

Yes. And Steve, I'll just add to that. I think that was our thought process is we don't really have any pending maturities coming up on any of our unsecured debt other than a convert that's coming due end of 2025, which is easily replaceable. But Ivan's view is correct. I mean as we said in our commentary today, we're starting to ramp back up our bridge lending opportunities. We have the SFR business that funds over time.

是的。史蒂夫，我補充一下。我認為我們的思考過程是，除了將於 2025 年底到期的可輕鬆替換的轉換債務外，我們的無擔保債務實際上沒有任何待到期的債務。但伊凡的觀點是正確的。我的意思是，正如我們在今天的評論中所說，我們開始增加過橋貸款機會。我們的 SFR 業務會隨著時間的推移而提供資金。

We have our construction business. We're starting to see real solid opportunities to the market to get mid-teens returns. So we looked at that as still cheaper capital than common. And in our view, that's accretive capital cost.

我們有我們的建築業務。我們開始看到市場上真正可靠的機會，可以獲得十幾歲左右的回報。因此，我們認為這仍然比普通資本更便宜。我們認為，這會增加資本成本。

Yeah. And I think in my prepared remarks, our SFR and construction lending business, that's mid to high teens returns that we put in place and keep in mind that, that's going to fund up substantially next year, right? It's in place. It's lower fund in the beginning. That will ramp up, and we'll get to leverage that up. But having 9% capital and that's mid-teens returns and knowing it's going to be in place and not having to put too much on and doing a small deal is very appropriate for us.

是的。我認為，在我準備好的演講中，我們的 SFR 和建築貸款業務，我們所實現的回報率是中高的，並請記住，明年將大幅增加資金，對嗎？它就位了。一開始的資金較低。這將會增加，我們將充分利用它。但擁有 9% 的資本，也就是十幾歲左右的回報，並且知道它會到位，而不必投入太多，做一筆小交易對我們來說是非常合適的。

Stephen Laws, Raymond James.

史蒂芬勞斯，雷蒙德詹姆斯。

I want to follow-up on Steve's question there on the capital. You mentioned the construction opportunities. Ivan, you mentioned in your prepared remarks, some of the best loans over the years have been done at kind of this point in the cycle as far as the bridge loans.

我想跟進史蒂夫關於首都的問題。您提到了建設機會。伊万，您在準備好的發言中提到，多年來一些最好的貸款是在周期的這個階段完成的，就過渡貸款而言。

Can you talk about how that pipeline builds into next year? And as you need more capital, how much more unsecured debt are you comfortable raising without equity? Or were you look at hitting the -- tapping the ATM a little bit? Curious to get your thoughts on how you'll raise capital to fund the growth opportunities.

能談談明年該管道的建設嗎？當您需要更多資金時，您在沒有股本的情況下可以放心籌集多少無擔保債務？還是您考慮過敲擊 ATM 機？我很想知道您對如何籌集資金來為成長機會提供資金的想法。

Okay. I'm going to meander a little bit because we made a very strategic decision to put our effort into the build-to-rent or SFR business and construction business for a couple of reasons. Number one, the spreads have been very outsized, and there wasn't a lot of competition as regional banks really got dried up, and we really become a dominant lender in that space.

好的。我想稍微聊聊，因為出於幾個原因，我們做出了一個非常策略性的決定，將我們的精力投入到建造租賃或 SFR 業務和建築業務中。第一，利差非常大，而且沒有太多競爭，因為區域銀行確實已經枯竭，而我們確實成為了該領域的主導貸款人。

We were lending in the, I would say, [3.50 to 4.50] spread. And we were able to get a lot of commitments knowing that would be something that would be funding up in 2025. So it was a good way to look at our business.

我想說，我們的貸款價差是[3.50 至 4.50]。我們獲得了很多承諾，因為我們知道這將在 2025 年籌集資金。所以這是審視我們業務的好方法。

We opted not to jump into -- and it's also a very low loan-to-value business. I think our average loan-to-value on that like 65% or 60%, I thought that the bridge lending on multi was a little too aggressive at that juncture and it was higher loan to value.

我們選擇不涉足——而且這也是一項貸款價值比非常低的業務。我認為我們的平均貸款價值比約為 65% 或 60%，我認為當時有多重貸款的過橋貸款有點過於激進，而且貸款價值比更高。

And I wasn't as comfortable, and we had the optionality of really putting our capital into that space, which we did. I will tell you with clarity that spreads have tightened over the last 60 to 90 days by 75 basis points. So we have embedded value in that pipeline. Now what's really happened in the marketplace is that the securitization market has come rolling back.

我不太舒服，我們可以選擇將資金真正投入這個領域，而我們確實這麼做了。我將明確告訴您，過去 60 至 90 天利差已收窄 75 個基點。所以我們在這條管道中嵌入了價值。現在市場上真正發生的事情是證券化市場已經回落。

And maybe a year ago, you really couldn't get an effect of securitization done. The CLO markets are not as tight as they were in the heyday. They're not that far off, maybe they're (inaudible) out. So there's a lot of efficiencies that have been drawn.

也許一年前，你真的無法達到證券化的效果。CLO 市場並不像鼎盛時期那麼緊張。他們離得併不遠，也許他們（聽不清楚）已經出局了。因此，已經提高了許多效率。

And I think ramping up right now on the bridge lending platform, especially with cap costs coming down and securitization costs coming down, and we like that business. About a year ago, spreads were in the [4 to 4.50, capitals were fortune]. And I don't like to make -- chasing that business, so I stepped away from it. Now you're seeing spreads in [2.75 to 1.25] range with CLO leverage being -- coming in 75 basis points to where it was, and those deals make more sense.

我認為現在在過橋貸款平台上正在加大力度，特別是隨著上限成本的下降和證券化成本的下降，我們喜歡這項業務。大約一年前，利差為[4到4.50，首都是財富]。我不喜歡追逐那項業務，所以我放棄了它。現在，您會看到利差在 [2.75 至 1.25] 範圍內，CLO 槓桿率比原來高出 75 個基點，這些交易更有意義。

So we'll be looking to really get more effective on that side of the business. I think the securitization market will be much more efficient and we'll be able to tap that in the first quarter, which will be very effective in the way we leverage our balance sheet.

因此，我們將尋求在業務的這方面真正變得更加有效。我認為證券化市場將更加高效，我們將能夠在第一季利用這個市場，這對我們利用資產負債表的方式將非常有效。

Now we've got to manage all of this where the interest rates are because, as I mentioned in my prepared remarks, interest rates have a lot to do with our runoff and we'll manage our runoff and our liquidity on a moment to moment basis based on where rates are.

現在我們必須在利率所在的地方管理所有這一切，因為正如我在準備好的講話中提到的，利率與我們的徑流有很大關係，我們將隨時管理我們的徑流和流動性基於費率所在的基礎。

We could see if rates come back down at 375 basis points, we can see an accelerated runoff on our balance sheet, which generates enormous cash. So we'll pay attention to all those factors, and we'll tap the different avenues to increase our liquidity as needed, where appropriate based on how all those other features toggle.

我們可以看到，如果利率回落至 375 個基點，我們的資產負債表就會加速流失，進而產生大量現金。因此，我們將專注於所有這些因素，並根據所有其他功能的切換方式，根據需要利用不同的途徑來增加流動性。

Yes. And Steve, to add to that, our whole approach on capital has been exactly what Ivan laid out. I think we've proven over time as big inside owners, we've been tremendously with the capital. So we're sitting on a nice amount of liquidity. We tapped a three-year debt instrument, we thought it was appropriate and accretive.

是的。史蒂夫，補充一點，我們對資本的整個方法正是伊凡所提出的。我認為，隨著時間的推移，我們已經證明，作為內部大股東，我們對資本的投入非常大。因此，我們擁有大量的流動性。我們採用了三年期債務工具，我們認為它是合適的且具有增值性。

As Ivan said, we manage based on interest rates. If we're going to see a lot of runoff, we're going to generate capital. If we see tremendous opportunities on the bridge side, the construction, the SFR, we'll look to access liquidity in the ways we always have, which is a barbell approach between equity and debt. And right now, we're pretty lowly leveraged. So we like our spot.

正如伊万所說，我們根據利率進行管理。如果我們要看到大量的徑流，我們就會產生資本。如果我們在橋樑、建設、SFR 方面看到巨大的機會，我們將尋求以我們一貫的方式獲得流動性，這是股權和債務之間的槓鈴方法。目前，我們的槓桿率相當低。所以我們喜歡我們的位置。

A lot depends on interest rates, but we'll continue approach the capital markets like we always have and really focus on not being diluted.

很大程度上取決於利率，但我們將繼續像往常一樣進入資本市場，並真正專注於不被稀釋。

Yeah. And just to jump back into one other item. Not only are the NPLs important for us to manage through from an interest standpoint, if you have $1 billion of noninterest earning asset value, you can do the math as we return that back into capital, but the leverage on those assets is much lower. So we'll generate a lot of cash as we resolve that as well. So we'll keep our eye on the path to resolutions.

是的。只是為了跳回另一項。從利息的角度來看，不良貸款不僅對我們管理很重要，如果你有10 億美元的非生息資產價值，你可以在我們將其返還給資本時進行數學計算，但這些資產的槓桿要低得多。因此，當我們解決這個問題時，我們也會產生大量現金。因此，我們將密切關註解決方案的路徑。

Paul, I know in your prepared remarks, you mentioned kind of a little troughing on the earnings here in this quarter, next quarter kind of near term. As we look back half of next year. Is it fair to assume we're going to get a decent amount of earnings lift between the NPL resolutions, recycling capital and then resolutions on the REO assets as well. Is that the right way to think about earnings kind of ramping next year?

保羅，我知道在您準備好的演講中，您提到了本季、下季近期的獲利有點低谷。當我們回顧明年的一半。假設我們將在不良貸款決議、回收資本以及 REO 資產決議之間獲得可觀的收益提升，這是否公平？這是考慮明年獲利成長的正確方法嗎？

I think that's correct. But let's go over it in pieces. I think you've got to look at things a little bit longer term in one or two quarters, right? That's what we talked about. So we're at the bottom. I've guided to a low watermark on interest income because, as Ivan said in his prepared remarks, we're doing a great job of resolving our delinquencies, but we do expect new ones to pop up.

我認為這是正確的。但讓我們分塊回顧一下。我認為你必須在一兩個季度內更長遠看待事情，對吧？這就是我們談論的。所以我們處於底部。我將利息收入設定為低水位線，因為正如伊凡在他準備好的講話中所說，我們在解決拖欠問題方面做得很好，但我們確實預計會出現新的拖欠問題。

Our goal is that our resolutions will exceed the new delinquencies and we'll continue to -- continue to have our total delinquencies come down, hopefully, in a similar fashion as they did in this quarter. Obviously, SOFR, where SOFR goes obviously affects the model as well, as you know.

我們的目標是，我們的決議將超過新的拖欠率，並且我們將繼續進行——希望以與本季度類似的方式繼續降低我們的拖欠率總額。顯然，如您所知，SOFR，SOFR 的去向也明顯影響模型。

But I think over a longer period of time, a longer outlook, that's correct, that -- as rates move in favor and we were able to resolve our NPLs and our agency business originations go up, all those things move in our favor, right? There's some things that move against you. Short term, when rates come down and there's things that move with you, as the cycle progresses.

但我認為，從長遠來看，從長遠來看，這是正確的，隨著利率向有利於我們的方向發展，我們能夠解決我們的不良貸款，我們的代理業務起源上升，所有這些事情都朝著對我們有利的方向發展，對嗎？有些事情對你不利。短期而言，當利率下降時，隨著週期的進展，有些事情也會隨之改變。

So I think, I look at it and Ivan looks at it as a more long-term view and in a more long-term view, we think over the next 10 to 12 months, we start to really see a lift from those nonperforming loans getting resolved as long as we don't have significant additional delinquencies. We see a lift from rates being more cooperative and watching our origination business, our SFR business, our bridge business, but it's over a longer period of time, Steve.

所以我認為，我和伊凡都從更長遠的角度來看待它，從更長遠的角度來看，我們認為在未來 10 到 12 個月內，我們開始真正看到不良貸款增加只要我們沒有重大的額外拖欠，就能解決。我們看到利率的提升是由於更加合作，並關注我們的始發業務、我們的 SFR 業務、我們的橋樑業務，但這需要更長的一段時間，史蒂夫。

Right. Well, appreciate the comments this morning, and you guys have done great to kind of managing through a pretty difficult environment to last year. And we'll show the successes you've had managing through that. So I appreciate the comments.

正確的。好吧，感謝今天早上的評論，你們在去年相當困難的環境中表現出色。我們將展示您在這方面所取得的成功。所以我很欣賞這些評論。

Rick Shane, JPMorgan.

里克·肖恩，摩根大通。

Just a couple of things. Ivan, you talked a little bit about the backlog associated with the agency business. And given the run rate through July, which I think last quarter you guys had said was about $360 million. We were surprised not to see an acceleration there. I'm curious how this actually works from a pipeline perspective? Do your borrowers lock rates?

只是幾件事。伊万，您談到了與代理業務相關的積壓訂單。考慮到 7 月份的運行率，我認為你們上個季度所說的約為 3.6 億美元。我們很驚訝沒有看到那裡的加速。我很好奇從管道的角度來看這實際上是如何運作的？您的借款人會鎖定利率嗎？

So is this just a deferral or if they didn't hit that window where rates were below 4% for two months, which you sort of signaled as the big number. Is that basically lost opportunity until the next time we see rates tick lower?

那麼，這只是一次推遲，還是他們沒有達到利率在兩個月內低於 4% 的窗口期（你暗示這是一個很大的數字）。在我們下次看到利率走低之前，這基本上是失去了機會嗎？

Okay. I think it's a great question, and I'm intimately involved in it because it's a little bit of a new quirk that the agencies would be sold backlogged. And normally, things would move much quicker. When agencies don't turn around your loans, you can't rate lock them, right?

好的。我認為這是一個很好的問題，我密切參與其中，因為代理商會出售積壓的訂單，這有點新穎。通常情況下，事情會進展得更快。當機構不扭轉你的貸款時，你就不能鎖定它們，對嗎？

So there was a period of time where you were eager to rate lock these loans, they work well, but you couldn't get in position that cost us roughly in my estimation, $200 million to $300 million worth of loans that if rate locking would have closed.

因此，有一段時間你渴望對這些貸款進行利率鎖定，它們運作良好，但你無法到位，據我估計，我們大約損失了價值2 億至3 億美元的貸款，如果利率鎖定的話，我們將損失2億至3 億美元的貸款。

Now unfortunately, rates moved against us. So as long as that would work at 4% or 3.75% don't work today, okay? So the question is, are they lost? Are they not lost? We have $1.8 billion pipeline roughly. And then you have normal fallout.

不幸的是，現在利率的變化對我們不利。因此，只要 4% 有效，或 3.75% 今天就行不通了，好嗎？那麼問題來了，他們迷路了嗎？他們沒有迷路嗎？我們大約有 18 億美元的管道。然後你就會有正常的後果。

We gave a range based on where interest rates are and where they could be, and our range is $1.25 billion to $1.5 billion. So that number of $250 million to $300 million, what I mentioned earlier, which is interest rate sensitive is the toggle feature of loans that are in the pipeline that if rates come down, will close. So we think if freight stay [4.25, 4.20], we'll hit the $1.2 billion for the quarter.

我們根據利率水準和可能水準給出了一個範圍，我們的範圍是 12.5 億美元到 15 億美元。因此，我之前提到的 2.5 億至 3 億美元的數字對利率敏感，是正在準備的貸款的切換特徵，如果利率下降，就會關閉。因此，我們認為，如果貨運維持在 [4.25, 4.20] 水平，本季我們將達到 12 億美元。

The [$1.250 billion if rates migrate down to 4, 3.90, 3.80, that $300 million], which was previously on the drawing board with those rates, which don't make sense because borrowers have to put cash back in. Those will only happen if rates come down. So that's how we look at it.

[如果利率下調至 4、3.90、3.80，則為 12.5 億美元，即 3 億美元]，這些利率之前是在繪圖板上的，但這是沒有意義的，因為借款人必須重新存入現金。只有利率下降，這些才會發生。這就是我們的看法。

Great. It's very helpful context. I appreciate that. Just pivoting quickly to distributable income. Paul, when we look at that number and think about the mods and the loans that are picking. I am assuming with the way you report numbers that PIK income is included in distributable. And I apologize, I'm bouncing around a lot this morning. If you mentioned this. How much PIK income was there that was reported that is non-cash in the third quarter?

偉大的。這是非常有幫助的背景。我很欣賞這一點。只是迅速轉向可分配收入。保羅，當我們看到這個數字並考慮正在選擇的模組和貸款時。我假設按照您報告數字的方式，PIK 收入已包含在可分配收入中。我很抱歉，今天早上我一直在跳來跳去。如果你提到這一點。第三季報告的 PIK 收入有多少是非現金？

Sure. Good question, Rick. And you're right. We are including the PIK interest on the mods in distributable earnings because I think there's a high probability of collecting it and its timing. To answer your question, for the third quarter, there was $15 million of PIK interest in our numbers. But I want to break that number out to you to give you a little context.

當然。好問題，瑞克。你是對的。我們將模組的 PIK 利息納入可分配收益中，因為我認為收集它的可能性及其時機。回答你的問題，第三季度，我們的數據中有 1500 萬美元的 PIK 利息。但我想向您透露這個數字，以便為您提供一些背景資訊。

So of the $15 million that was PIK interest for the quarter, $3 million was related to a group of assets we modified in a prior year that we have substantial guarantees from the equity behind that we feel very, very strong we're going to collect.

因此，在本季度 PIK 利息的 1500 萬美元中，有 300 萬美元與我們在上一年修改的一組資產有關，我們有來自股權背後的大量擔保，我們感覺非常非常有實力我們將收集這些資產。

On top of that, another $2 million of that was mezzanine PE, which is part of our mezzanine PE product, whenever we're doing mezzanine PE and we're doing it behind agency, that always has a pick feature to it.

除此之外，另外 200 萬美元是夾層 PE，它是我們夾層 PE 產品的一部分，每當我們在代理商後面進行夾層 PE 時，總是有一個選擇功能。

That's just normal cost. So you have to pay, and you have an accrual. The rest of it, which is about $10 million was related to mods that happened in the first and second and third quarter of this year, with $4 million coming from our third quarter mods and $2 million coming from our second quarter mods and $4 million coming from our first quarter models. That's the breakout of the numbers for the third quarter, if that's helpful to you.

這只是正常費用。所以你必須付費，並且有應計費用。其餘的約1000 萬美元與今年第一季、第二季和第三季發生的模組相關，其中400 萬美元來自我們第三季的模組，200 萬美元來自我們第二季的模組， 400 萬美元來自我們的模組。這是第三季的數據突破，如果這對您有幫助的話。

It's very helpful. And I'm scanning the second quarter transcript as you were speaking, that $15 million, I can't find the number in the transcript at the moment. Is that comparable to, I think, you said $9 million last quarter.

這非常有幫助。正如你所說，我正在掃描第二季的記錄，那 1500 萬美元，我現在在記錄中找不到這個數字。我認為，這與您所說的上季 900 萬美元相當嗎？

I think it was about $10 million last quarter. That's right. So it's just up a little bit because -- it's up a little bit because the first quarter mods -- I'm sorry, the second quarter mods are fully in the third quarter now because some of them were modded mid-quarter, and then you've got your third quarter mods, and then those third quarter mods will have a bigger impact in the fourth quarter if they were modified late in the third quarter. So you're correct. It was about $10 million, now it's $15 million, and then we'll see where it goes going forward.

我認為上個季度約為 1000 萬美元。這是正確的。所以它只是上升了一點，因為——它上升了一點，因為第一季度的模組——我很抱歉，第二季度的模組現在完全進入了第三季度，因為其中一些在季度中期進行了修改，然後你已經有了第三季的模組，如果這些第三季的模組在第三季末進行了修改，那麼它們將在第四季產生更大的影響。所以你是對的。以前大約是 1000 萬美元，現在是 1500 萬美元，然後我們會看看它的未來發展。

Great.

偉大的。

In addition to that, though, I just want to point out, Rick, that there was -- there are a certain amount of loans that we have modded with a paying accrual that we've chosen not to book the accrual and not track the accrual. And that's $2 million dollars that's owed to us that's not in these numbers as kind of an offset if we get it.

除此之外，瑞克，我只想指出，我們已經對一定數量的貸款進行了支付應計費用的修改，我們選擇不記錄應計費用，也不跟踪應計費用。這是欠我們的 200 萬美元，如果我們得到的話，這並不在這些數字中作為補償。

Okay. Great. And actually, Paul, you're going to regret keeping talking because I will ask one last question that occurred to me. Please remind me your policy on REO. Do you -- when you -- and we've noticed this differs company to company, do you realize any loss when you take property REO?

好的。偉大的。事實上，保羅，你會後悔繼續說話的，因為我會問我想到的最後一個問題。請提醒我你們對 REO 的政策。您是否—當您—我們注意到公司與公司之間存在差異時，您是否意識到當您取得 REO 財產時會造成任何損失？

So it depends on what the value is. So the way REO works in the accounting world is you take back an asset. The time you take back the asset, you have to do an appraisal and you have to allocate the value between land and building. And if you're carrying the loan at x and the appraisal comes in at y, then you either have a gain or a loss for accounting on your REO. But for us, that gain, or loss is not a realized loss until you dispose of the REO asset or gain.

所以這取決於價值是多少。因此，REO 在會計領域的運作方式就是要收回資產。當你收回資產時，你必須進行評估，並且必須在土地和建築物之間分配價值。如果您的貸款金額為 x，評估金額為 y，那麼您的 REO 會計要么有收益，要么有損失。但對我們來說，在您處置 REO 資產或收益之前，該收益或損失並不是已實現的損失。

Jade Rahmani, KBW.

傑德·拉赫馬尼，KBW。

And really great to get all those answers to pick very helpful. I know investors have a lot of questions about that. Wanted to ask on cash flow performance. It dipped in the third quarter. If we exclude timing of agency originations and loan sales, operating cash flow was $68 million, down from $94 million last quarter. I know there's some seasonality.

非常高興能夠得到所有這些非常有幫助的答案。我知道投資者對此有很多疑問。想問一下現金流表現。第三季有所下降。如果我們排除代理發起和貸款銷售的時間，營運現金流為 6,800 萬美元，低於上季度的 9,400 萬美元。我知道有一些季節性。

Again, this excludes timing related to the agency business, but it is below the dividend. Typically, you do have a pickup in the fourth quarter. So can you just talk to the cash flow operations outlook? And if the dividend you expect to be sustained?

同樣，這不包括與代理業務相關的時間，但它低於股息。通常情況下，你會在第四季有所回升。那麼您能談談現金流營運前景嗎？您預計股息是否會持續？

Sure. Let's talk about the cash flow. I don't have the numbers you have in front of you, Jade. I think you're doing it on a quarterly basis. The Q, which was filed this morning, has a nine-month cash flow of $415 million cash from operations. If you adjust for the timing of the held of sale loans and adjust for the timing of the changes in other assets and other liabilities. It's at $328 million. The dividend for the nine months would have been $265 million.

當然。我們來談談現金流。我沒有你面前的數字，傑德。我認為您每季都會這樣做。今天早上提交的 Q 報告顯示，九個月的營運現金流為 4.15 億美元。如果您調整持有銷售貸款的時間並調整其他資產和其他負債變動的時間。其價值為 3.28 億美元。這九個月的股息將為 2.65 億美元。

So we cover. There are dips and there are increases, obviously it depends on cash collection. There are certain loans that are -- pay historically late and you get those cash in the subsequent quarter. But we do feel like we have adequate cash flow for many, many sources to cover the dividend.

所以我們覆蓋。有跌有漲，顯然取決於現金回籠。有些貸款歷史上較晚支付，但您會在下個季度獲得這些現金。但我們確實覺得我們有足夠的現金流來支付股利。

Great to hear. Regarding liquidity, how much liquidity do you expect to use of the $600 million to take back the $250 million REO that you mentioned you expected? And also, I assume there'll be further modifications.

很高興聽到。關於流動性，您預計將使用 6 億美元的多少流動性來收回您提到的預計的 2.5 億美元 REO？而且，我認為還會有進一步的修改。

Yeah. I think that we're in the thick of it now. And as I mentioned that a lot of these NPLs are very lowly levered relative to the rest of the business we've done, which has impacted our cash. But it's going to be a turning event. There are many loans that we have REO, we have slated borrowers for.

是的。我認為我們現在正處於困境之中。正如我所提到的，相對於我們所做的其他業務，許多不良貸款的槓桿率非常低，這影響了我們的現金。但這將是一個轉折事件。我們有 REO 的許多貸款，我們有指定的借款人。

And once have a slated borrower, you can re-lever those loans up. There are a lot of loans we're seeing dispositions on, and that's pure cash. So at the moment, I think that it will be somewhat consistent with what we've done. And I think where we are is a pretty good outlook based on being in the bottom of the cycle.

一旦有了預定的借款人，您就可以重新提高這些貸款的槓桿率。我們看到有很多貸款被處置，而且都是純現金。所以目前，我認為這與我們所做的有些一致。我認為，基於週期底部，我們的前景相當不錯。

I also wanted to ask about loan putbacks from the GSEs. I think one of your competitors has had put back and another made some disclosure. But I don't believe there's been any disclosure from Arbor. Have you experienced any of that?

我還想詢問政府支持企業的貸款回撥情況。我認為你們的一位競爭對手已經退回，而另一位競爭對手則進行了一些披露。但我不認為 Arbor 有任何披露。你經歷過這些嗎？

No.

不。

No, we have not.

不，我們沒有。

And lastly, just because investors ask about it, is there any comment or update you could provide regarding the DOJ inquiry that was reported?

最後，僅僅因為投資者詢問了這個問題，您是否可以就報告的司法部調查提供任何評論或更新？

No, we've covered everything in our prepared remarks before. As we said, we don't comment on that.

不，我們之前已經在準備好的發言中涵蓋了所有內容。正如我們所說，我們對此不予置評。

Crispin Love, Piper Sandler.

克里斯平·洛夫，派珀·桑德勒。

Ivan, you mentioned in the prepared remarks that now could be the time to start ramping up the bridge lending program. So just looking at this quarter, originations were down to around [$15 million] or so, which have come down in this environment, which completely makes sense.

伊万，您在準備好的發言中提到，現在可能是開始加強過橋貸款計劃的時候了。因此，僅看本季度，發起額下降至約 [1500 萬美元] 左右，在這種環境下下降，這是完全合理的。

But they were $100 million in early 2023 and significantly higher than that previously. So curious on what you're seeing right now, how the demand is from borrowers right now and just how some of those conversations are going and how you might expect originations to trend down the bridge side?

但到 2023 年初，這一數字已達到 1 億美元，明顯高於先前的水平。對您現在所看到的情況感到好奇，借款人現在的需求如何，其中一些對話的進展以及您預計貸款將如何發展？

So I think what we're looking at to some degree is a lot of the loans with construction loans, which you're getting the CLOs and lease-up. We kind of like that business and that's where we're putting a lot of our attention. I mean, the math didn't work for me before when spreads were [4 over 4.50 and SOFR was a 5.25] and people have to buy caps and their costs were enormous.

所以我認為我們在某種程度上關注的是許多帶有建築貸款的貸款，你可以獲得貸款抵押貸款和租賃。我們有點喜歡這個行業，這就是我們投入大量注意力的地方。我的意思是，以前的數學對我來說不起作用，當時利差是[4超過4.50，SOFR是5.25]，人們必須購買上限，而他們的成本是巨大的。

Spreads, we just did a bunch of loans at [2.75] over. And SOFR was lower and cap cost was substantially lower. So I think we closed about $80 million, and we have another [200] in the pipeline. So I would say that I'd like to see about $300 million to $400 million closed on the bridge lending side between now and year-end and then ramp up that pipeline. We're also going to continue to do the build-to-rent, the construction lending. So you have to look at it in its totality.

利差，我們剛剛以 [2.75] 的價格發放了一堆貸款。SOFR 較低，上限成本也大幅降低。所以我認為我們已經完成了大約 8000 萬美元的融資，而我們還有另一個 [200] 項目正在籌備中。因此，我想說，我希望從現在到年底，過橋貸款方面能夠完成約 3 億至 4 億美元的融資，然後擴大這一管道。我們也將繼續進行建房出租和建築貸款業務。所以你必須從整體上看待它。

In addition, we are putting a lot of money out on the pref and mezz. And that's been a 14% business, and that's been a very attractive business. So we have a lot of flexibility here in terms of where we want to put our capital. But with the securitization market returning and with rates on the short end going down, we think that will be more viable.

此外，我們還在 pref 和 mezz 上投入了大量資金。這是一個 14% 的業務，這是一個非常有吸引力的業務。因此，我們在資金投入方面有很大的彈性。但隨著證券化市場的回歸以及短期利率的下降，我們認為這將更可行。

All right. I just want to make sure I got that. Did you say that you -- you'd expect $300 million to $400 million of bridge originations between now and year-end?

好的。我只是想確保我明白了。您是否說過您預計從現在到年底之間的橋樑資金將達到 3 億至 4 億美元？

About $300 million is what we're expecting.

我們預計大約 3 億美元。

Yeah. We did $84 million in October, as Ivan referenced. And then we had $240 million of fundings in the third quarter from our SFR business, which as we had in our prepared remarks, our committed volume is very, very high. So we've got $1.8 billion outstanding on our balance sheet in that business, and that continues to fund up.

是的。正如 Ivan 所提到的，我們 10 月的收入為 8,400 萬美元。第三季我們從 SFR 業務獲得了 2.4 億美元的資金，正如我們在準備好的發言中所說，我們承諾的資金量非常非常高。因此，我們在該業務的資產負債表上有 18 億美元的未償資金，資金還在繼續增加。

So we do expect that to ramp up. And plus we did $84 million already. And hopefully, we'll do $200 million more by the end of the year. That's kind of the way we're looking at it in the different product lines. On top of that, as Ivan said, we're active in the construction lending side. We did our first deal of $47 million this quarter. Again, that funds over time. So it will take time to fund, but we could have a few more committed volumes closed by the end of the year on that.

因此，我們確實預期這一數字將會上升。而且我們已經完成了 8400 萬美元的投資。希望到今年底我們能再投入 2 億美元。這就是我們在不同產品線中看待它的方式。除此之外，正如伊凡所說，我們在建築貸款方面也很活躍。本季我們完成了第一筆價值 4700 萬美元的交易。再說一遍，隨著時間的推移，資金會不斷增加。因此，籌集資金需要時間，但我們可能會在今年年底前完成更多承諾的交易。

Yeah. I think it will be impacted if you see short-term rates come down 50 basis points. I think that business will see a lot of growth in the first quarter could be very substantial if that moves in the right direction.

是的。我認為如果短期利率下降 50 個基點，就會受到影響。我認為，如果朝著正確的方向發展，第一季的業務將會出現很大的成長，成長幅度可能會非常大。

Great. I appreciate all that color. And then just one last question for me. Just curious on your confidence in the current dividend level. You've been covering it with DE. DE has softened a little bit. So it seems like there could be some near-term pressure there, but kind of more confident as you look out from 10 to 12 months, as you said. So I'm just curious on how you and the Board are feeling about the current $0.43 dividend in the environment right now.

偉大的。我很欣賞所有這些顏色。最後還有一個問題想問我。只是好奇您對當前股息水平的信心。你一直用 DE 來覆蓋它。DE 已經軟化了一些。因此，短期內似乎可能存在一些壓力，但正如您所說，從 10 到 12 個月的情況來看，您會更有信心。所以我只是好奇您和董事會對當前環境中 0.43 美元的股息有何感受。

So we have a pretty diversified business and a very resilient business. And there are a lot of things that go up and down in our business. Clearly, if rates come down a little bit on the 10-year side, you'll see a dramatic growth in the agency business, which produced a substantial amount of revenue.

因此，我們擁有相當多元化的業務和非常有彈性的業務。我們的業務有很多起起落落的事情。顯然，如果十年期利率稍微下降，您會看到代理業務大幅成長，從而產生大量收入。

On the other side, we'll see a little bit of decline on our escrow balances. So they kind of offset each other. If rates do come down, I think you'll see the NPLs resolutions really decline, and that will be a great contributor to the way our future income comes.

另一方面，我們的託管餘額會略有下降。所以它們有點互相抵消。如果利率確實下降，我想你會看到不良貸款決議確實下降，這將對我們未來的收入來源做出巨大貢獻。

So those are the kind of factors that we'll look at very strong. So there's going to be some offsets, some benefits and some negatives. So I think we're in a pretty good position based on where rates are today. But if rates continue to decline, I think you can see a little bit more optimism on those numbers, even though there will be a decline on interest-earning escrows.

因此，這些都是我們將重點關注的因素。因此，將會有一些抵消、一些好處和一些負面影響。因此，我認為根據目前的利率情況，我們處於非常有利的位置。但如果利率繼續下降，我認為你可以看到這些數字更加樂觀，儘管生息託管會有所下降。

Now also keep in mind the securitization market has come rolling back, and there'll be a lot of efficiencies on our borrowing costs if we do decide to issue in the beginning of next year. I mean we're paying on our warehousing lines, probably [2.50 over to 2.75 over]. I think the securitization market, we could see 50 basis points to 75 basis points of improvement on our borrowing cost and better leverage. So those are the kind of things that we're evaluating and looking at.

現在也要記住，證券化市場已經回落，如果我們決定在明年初發行，我們的借貸成本將會大大提高。我的意思是我們可能要支付倉儲費用[2.50以上至2.75以上]。我認為在證券化市場上，我們的借貸成本和槓桿率可以提高 50 到 75 個基點。這些就是我們正在評估和研究的事情。

And Chris, it's Paul. I haven't laid out all the macro different scenarios of what goes up and what goes down, and I've talked about this in the past. Times never perfect, right? Some things may go down earlier, and stuff goes up. But the way we look at it, the way the company and the Board looks at the dividend is, if you look at it more of the long-term, you don't look at one or two quarters at the bottom of the cycle. So we're confident we have things that will offset. It could be over a period of time, but we're really confident where we are today that over a longer period of time that's sustainable.

克里斯，是保羅。我沒有列出所有上漲和下跌的宏觀不同場景，我過去已經討論過這一點。時代永遠不會完美，對吧？有些東西可能會先下降，而有些東西可能會上升。但我們看待它的方式，公司和董事會看待股息的方式是，如果你更長遠看待它，你就不會著眼於週期底部的一兩個季度。所以我們有信心我們有一些東西可以抵消。這可能需要一段時間，但我們非常有信心我們今天所處的位置在更長的時間內是可持續的。

And ladies and gentlemen, that will conclude today's question-and-answer session. I'd like to turn the floor back over to Ivan Kaufman for any additional or closing comments.

女士們、先生們，今天的問答環節到此結束。我想將發言權交還給伊凡·考夫曼（Ivan Kaufman），徵求任何補充意見或結束語。

I just want to thank everybody for their participation. It's definitely been a very challenging time for us and most people in the industry. I think we've outperformed our peers, and I really appreciate your support and your commitment for the company. Thank you, everybody.

我只想感謝大家的參與。對我們和業內大多數人來說，這無疑是一個非常具有挑戰性的時期。我認為我們的表現優於同行，我非常感謝您對公司的支持和承諾。謝謝大家。

Once again, ladies and gentlemen, that will conclude today's call. Thank you for your participation. You may disconnect at this time, and have a wonderful rest of your day.

女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。此時您可能會斷開連接，並度過愉快的一天。