Arbor Realty Trust Inc (ABR) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the second quarter 2024 Arbor Realty Trust earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions). Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. (Operator Instructions).

早安，女士們、先生們，歡迎參加 Arbor Realty Trust 2024 年第二季財報電話會議。（操作員說明）。請注意，今天的會議正在錄製中。（操作員說明）。

I would now like to turn the call over to your speaker today, Paul Elenio, Chief Financial Officer. Please go ahead.

現在我想將電話轉給今天的發言人、財務長 Paul Elenio。請繼續。

Thank you, Angela. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the quarterly earnings call for Arbor Realty Trust. This morning, we'll discuss the results for the quarter ended June 30, 2024. With me on the call today is Ivan Kaufman, our President and Chief Executive Officer.

謝謝你，安吉拉。大家早安，歡迎參加 Arbor Realty Trust 的季度財報電話會議。今天早上，我們將討論截至 2024 年 6 月 30 日的季度業績。今天與我一起參加電話會議的是我們的總裁兼執行長 Ivan Kaufman。

Before we begin, I need to inform you that statements made in this earnings call may be deemed forward-looking statements that are subject to risks and uncertainties, including information about possible or assumed future results of our business, financial condition, liquidity, results of operations, plans and objectives. These statements are based on our beliefs, assumptions and expectations of our future performance, taking into account the information currently available to us.

在我們開始之前，我需要通知您，本次收益電話會議中的陳述可能被視為前瞻性陳述，受到風險和不確定性的影響，包括有關我們業務的可能或假設的未來結果、財務狀況、流動性、結果的資訊。這些陳述是基於我們對未來業績的信念、假設和預期，並考慮了我們目前掌握的資訊。

Factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from Arbor's expectations in these forward-looking statements are detailed in our SEC reports. Listeners are cautioned not to place undue reliance on these forward-looking statements, which speak only as of today. Arbor undertakes no obligation to publicly update or revise these forward-looking statements to reflect events or circumstances after today or the occurrences of unanticipated events.

我們的 SEC 報告詳細介紹了可能導致實際結果與 Arbor 在這些前瞻性聲明中的預期存在重大差異的因素。請聽眾不要過度依賴這些前瞻性陳述，這些陳述僅截至今天為止。Arbor 不承擔公開更新或修改這些前瞻性陳述以反映今天之後的事件或情況或意外事件發生的義務。

I'll now turn the call over to Arbor's President and CEO, Ivan Kaufman.

現在我將把電話轉給 Arbor 的總裁兼執行長 Ivan Kaufman。

Thank you, Paul, and thanks to everyone for joining us on today's call. As you can see from this morning's press release, we had another strong quarter as we continue to effectively navigate through this extremely challenging environment.

謝謝保羅，也謝謝大家參加今天的電話會議。正如您從今天早上的新聞稿中看到的那樣，我們在繼續有效地度過這個極具挑戰性的環境的同時，又迎來了一個強勁的季度。

As we discussed in the past, we started preparing for the cycle well over two years ago and a plan to appropriately position the company to navigate through and succeed for our investors in this challenging market is being executed in line with our expectations. We have a diversified business model with many campus cyclical income streams, are focused on the right asset class with the appropriate liability structures and are well capitalized, which has allowed us to continue to outperform our peers in every major financial metric.

正如我們過去討論的那樣，我們早在兩年多前就開始為這個週期做準備，並且正在按照我們的預期執行一項計劃，以適當定位公司，以便我們的投資者在這個充滿挑戰的市場中度過難關並取得成功。我們擁有多元化的業務模式，擁有許多校園週期性收入流，專注於具有適當負債結構的正確資產類別，並且資本充足，這使我們能夠在每項主要財務指標上繼續超越同行。

Last quarter, we posted some compelling charts on our website, demonstrating this outperformance. We updated these slides again this quarter, and we encourage you to review them as they clearly demonstrate that our total shareholder return, dividend growth and book value appreciation over the last five years are outperforming everyone else in our peer group.

上季度，我們在網站上發布了一些引人注目的圖表，展示了這種出色的表現。我們本季再次更新了這些投影片，我們鼓勵您查看它們，因為它們清楚地表明我們過去五年的股東總回報、股息成長和帳面價值升值超過了同行中的其他所有人。

In fact, most of our peers have cut their dividend substantially, have experienced significant book value erosion and have generated a negative total shareholder return over the last five years. Clearly, this is not the position we are in, and we have continued to demonstrate over a long period of time that we are a consistent outperformer and a leader in the space.

事實上，過去五年來，我們的大多數同業都大幅削減了股息，帳面價值大幅縮水，股東總回報率為負。顯然，這不是我們所處的位置，而且我們在很長一段時間內繼續證明我們是該領域的一貫表現出眾者和領導者。

As we have communicated, we expected the first two quarters of this year to be the most challenging part of the cycle, and we have also guided to this period of peak stress affecting the third quarter and fourth quarter as well if rates remain higher for longer. Even in the most stressful part of the cycle, we continue to post very strong operating results, which we'll discuss more in detail on today's call.

正如我們所傳達的，我們預計今年前兩個季度將是該週期中最具挑戰性的部分，我們還指導了這一壓力峰值時期，如果利率在較長時間內保持較高水平，也會影響第三季和第四季。即使在周期中壓力最大的部分，我們也繼續發布非常強勁的營運業績，我們將在今天的電話會議上更詳細地討論這一點。

We are aware of certain erroneous information in the marketplace, which has been driven by short reports and is inaccurate. While our performance in this quarter speaks for itself, we would be remiss if we didn't point out certain factual inaccuracies as well as ill-informed and or inaccurate statements that are causing the most concern.

我們知道市場上存在某些錯誤訊息，這些訊息是由空頭報告驅動的，而且是不準確的。雖然我們本季的表現不言而喻，但如果我們沒有指出某些事實不準確以及引起最關注的資訊不靈通和/或不準確的陳述，那就是我們的失職。

First, there has been a swath of misinformation regarding one transaction in particular called the Westchase portfolio. For example, misinformation started that the transaction should have been reported in the first quarter, when, in fact, the transaction closed in the second quarter and was appropriately and timely reflected in the company's financials. We believe that the merits of this deal were the ultimate interest of the shareholders.

首先，關於一項名為 Westchase 投資組合的交易存在大量錯誤訊息。例如，錯誤訊息開始認為該交易應該在第一季報告，而事實上，該交易在第二季完成，並適當、及時地反映在公司的財務報表中。我們認為，本次交易的優點是股東的最終利益。

Specifically, we had $100 million bridge loan collateralized by a portfolio of properties in Houston, Texas, in which the borrower defaulted. We immediately exercised our right to foreclose on these assets as we believe that there was a value above the debt, we simultaneously sold it to a new entity, which was capitalized with $15 million of fresh equity and a $95 million bridge loan at SOFR plus 300 basis points that we provided.

具體來說，我們有 1 億美元的過橋貸款，由借款人違約的德克薩斯州休斯頓的一組房產作為抵押。我們立即行使了取消這些資產贖回權的權利，因為我們認為這些資產的價值高於債務，我們同時將其出售給一個新實體，該實體以1500 萬美元的新股本和SOFR 加300 的9500 萬美元過橋貸款進行資本化我們提供的基點。

Of the $15 million of capital that was invested in the transaction, $6.25 million or 40% was funded by the Austin Walker Fund, which is a private minority-owned real estate fund focusing on affordable housing that we have a 49% non-controlling limited partnership interest in.

在本次交易投資的1,500 萬美元資本中，625 萬美元（即40%）由Austin Walker Fund 提供資金，該基金是一家私人少數族裔擁有的房地產基金，專注於經濟適用房，我們擁有49%的非控股有限公司合夥權益。

The rest of the capital came from two independent separate investors, one of which is a borrower that we have a long-standing relationship, which has a tremendous amount of expertise in renovating these type of assets and maximizing their value.

其餘的資金來自兩個獨立的投資者，其中之一是與我們有長期合作關係的借款人，他們在翻新此類資產並使其價值最大化方面擁有豐富的專業知識。

We believe the stabilized value of these assets to be around $128 million, which is well above the capital stack of this deal and the deal has now been recapitalized with the appropriate reserves giving us confidence that the new ownership group will be able to hit the targeted business plan over the next few years.

我們認為這些資產的穩定價值約為 1.28 億美元，遠高於本次交易的資本總額，而該交易現已透過適當的儲備進行資本重組，這讓我們相信新的所有權集團將能夠實現目標未來幾年的商業計劃。

Westchase is an outstanding transaction that fits what we want, which is lend to affordable housing communities. We believe this transaction is a very effective workout with sound economics and consistent with our values, yet the short sellers have levied what we believe are baseless criticisms about this transaction.

Westchase 是一項出色的交易，符合我們的需求，即向經濟適用房社區提供貸款。我們認為，這筆交易是一項非常有效的交易，具有良好的經濟性，並且符合我們的價值觀，但賣空者對這筆交易提出了我們認為毫無根據的批評。

Again, we are extremely pleased with the results of this transaction and the benefit it presents for our stakeholders. We continue to do an effective job in managing through our loan book, and this transaction represents management's capabilities and taking back an asset and replacing it with new sponsorship and having it appropriately recapitalized.

同樣，我們對此次交易的結果及其為我們的利害關係人帶來的好處感到非常滿意。我們繼續透過貸款簿進行有效的管理，這項交易代表了管理層的能力，收回資產並用新的贊助取代它，並對其進行適當的資本重組。

Second, certain misinformation has been spread about the redemption of one of our CLOs. We have been a top issuer of CLOs for over 20-years, never once losing a single dollar of principle for our investors even through the historic financial crisis. We are experts in managing these vehicles and have issued and repaid many vehicles returning all invested capital to our bondholders.

其次，關於贖回我們的一名 CLO 的某些錯誤訊息已被傳播。20 多年來，我們一直是 CLO 的頂級發行人，即使在歷史性的金融危機中，我們的投資者也從未損失過一美元的本金。我們是管理這些工具的專家，並已發行和償還許多工具，將所有投資資本回饋給我們的債券持有人。

We called the CLO on June 17, in the ordinary course of business, and doing so, returned the principal investments of each bondholder in full through the outsized returns on our capital and maximize returns to our shareholders.

我們於6月17日在正常業務過程中致電CLO，透過我們的超額資本回報全額返還了每個債券持有人的本金投資，並最大限度地回報了我們的股東。

Additionally, the [Arbor] reports have also stated that we did not give proper notice to our bondholders prior to the redemption, in time we filed the appropriate SEC forms out for the redemption and that we committed securities fraud. The rules are very clear. We are required to give notice to our bondholders 10 days prior to the redemption, which we did formally through the trustee on May 31, and we are required to file an SEC form on the redemption 45 days after the quarter in which the redemption occurred, which is -- in this case, not until August 14.

此外，[Arbor] 報告還指出，我們在贖回之前沒有向債券持有人發出適當通知，也沒有及時向 SEC 提交贖回表格，並且我們犯下了證券欺詐行為。規則非常明確。我們需要在贖回前 10 天向債券持有人發出通知（我們於 5 月 31 日透過受託人正式通知），並且我們需要在贖回發生季度後 45 天提交有關贖回的 SEC 表格，在本例中，要等到8 月14 日。

We have collapsed and redeemed over a dozen CLOs in the past 10-years and each time given the proper amount of notice and filing all SEC required documents in a timely manner.

在過去的 10 年裡，我們已經倒閉並贖回了十幾隻 CLO，每次都給予適當的通知並及時提交 SEC 要求的所有文件。

Third, we have been criticized for how we've been managing our book -- our loan book in this distressed environment. When, in fact, the company has done a very effective job in maximizing return to our shareholders, which, again, are evidenced in the numbers that we have reported.

第三，我們因在這種困難環境下管理貸款帳簿的方式而受到批評。事實上，公司在最大化股東回報方面做得非常有效，這在我們報告的數字中再次得到了證明。

This quarter, we successfully modified over $730 million of loans with [$23 million] of fresh capital being injected into these deals from the sponsors. This includes cash to purchase new interest rate caps, fund interest and renovation reserves, bring past due interest current and pay down loan balances where appropriate.

本季度，我們成功修改了超過 7.3 億美元的貸款，贊助商向這些交易注入了 [2,300 萬美元]新資本。這包括用於購買新利率上限、基金利息和裝修準備金、償還逾期利息以及在適當情況下償還貸款餘額的現金。

We also continue to make progress on approximately $1 billion of loans that are past due by either modifying these loans for closing and taking them into REO or bring in new sponsorship either consensually or simultaneously with the foreclosure. In addition, we have an extremely successful quarter given the recent decline in interest rates by generating $630 million of payoffs with $490 million of these loans being refinanced into fixed rate agency deals.

我們也繼續在大約 10 億美元逾期貸款方面取得進展，方法是修改這些貸款以關閉並將其納入 REO，或者在雙方同意的情況下或在取消抵押品贖回權的同時引入新的贊助。此外，鑑於最近利率下降，我們的季度非常成功，產生了 6.3 億美元的回報，其中 4.9 億美元的貸款被再融資為固定利率代理交易。

And as I have said in the past, if interest rates go below 4%, obviously, as they've done in the last week or so, we expect that this will become more meaningful to our business. Despite these facts, Arbor has been subject to repeated attacks in the reports generated by short sellers, and we expect these attacks will continue.

正如我過去所說，如果利率明顯低於 4%，就像他們在上週左右所做的那樣，我們預計這將對我們的業務變得更有意義。儘管有這些事實，Arbor 仍多次受到賣空者報告中的攻擊，我們預計這些攻擊將繼續下去。

The best response to these attacks and which we believe are unfair and unjustified are our financial results and our earnings call here today. It has also been widely reported that in the weight of these attacks over an 18-month period, Arbor has received requests for information from government agencies, including the Department of Justice. Arbor consistently has cooperated and will continue to cooperate with any such requests. Likewise, it is our policy not to comment on any such inquiries.

對這些攻擊的最佳回應是我們今天的財務表現和財報電話會議，我們認為這些攻擊是不公平和不合理的。據廣泛報導，鑑於 18 個月期間發生的這些攻擊的嚴重程度，Arbor 已收到包括司法部在內的政府機構索取資訊的請求。Arbor 一貫配合並將繼續配合任何此類請求。同樣，我們的政策是不對任何此類詢問發表評論。

That said, I would like to provide more detail about some additional results that have resulted from our execution of strategies to manage the business through an environment that poses market-wide challenges. One of the items I touched on earlier is how important having adequate liquidity and appropriate debt increments are to your success in these types of markets.

也就是說，我想提供更多關於我們透過執行策略來管理業務以應對整個市場挑戰的環境所產生的其他結果的詳細資訊。我之前提到的問題之一是，擁有充足的流動性和適當的債務增量對於您在此類市場中取得成功有多麼重要。

As a result, we have focused heavily on maintaining a strong liquidity position. Currently, we have approximately $700 million of liquidity between around $700 million in corporate cash and $200 million of cash in our CLOs that results in an additional cash equivalent of approximately $50 million. And having this level of liquidity is crucial in this environment as it provides us the flexibility needed to manage through the rest of the downturn and to take advantage of opportunities that will exist in this market to generate superior returns on our capital.

因此，我們專注於維持強勁的流動性狀況。目前，我們擁有約 7 億美元的流動資金，其中約 7 億美元的公司現金和 2 億美元的 CLO 現金，導致額外的現金等價物約為 5,000 萬美元。在這種環境下，擁有這種水平的流動性至關重要，因為它為我們提供了管理餘下的低迷時期所需的靈活性，並利用這個市場中存在的機會為我們的資本帶來豐厚的回報。

We also continued to do an excellent job in deleveraging our balance sheet and reducing our exposure to short-term bank debt. We are down to approximately $2.8 billion in outstanding from our commercial banks from a peak of approximately $4.2 billion, and we have 67% of our secured indebtedness in non-mark-to-market, non-recourse, low-cost CLO vehicles.

我們在資產負債表去槓桿化和減少短期銀行債務風險方面也持續表現優異。我們商業銀行的未償債務從高峰約 42 億美元降至約 28 億美元，而且我們 67% 的擔保債務是非以市價計價、無追索權、低成本的 CLO 工具。

The CLO vehicles are a major part of our business strategy as they provide us with a tremendous strategic advantage in times of the distress and dislocation due to the nature of their non-mark-to-market, non-recourse elements. In addition, they contribute significantly to providing a low-cost alternative to warehousing banks, which in times like this, have fluctuating pricing and leverage point parameters.

CLO 工具是我們業務策略的重要組成部分，因為它們具有不以市價計價、無追索權的性質，因此在困境和混亂時期為我們提供了巨大的戰略優勢。此外，它們還為倉儲銀行提供低成本替代方案做出了重大貢獻，在這種時期，倉儲銀行的定價和槓桿點參數存在波動。

In fact, one of the significant drivers of our income streams are our low-cost CLO vehicles as well as the fixed rate debt and equity REIT instruments we have -- that make up a big part of our capital structure. We are very strategic in our approach to capitalizing our business with a substantial amount of low-cost, long-term long dated funding sources, which has allowed us to continue to generate outsized returns on our capital.

事實上，我們收入流的重要驅動因素之一是我們的低成本 CLO 工具以及我們擁有的固定利率債務和股權 REIT 工具——它們構成了我們資本結構的重要組成部分。我們在利用大量低成本、長期的資金來源來利用我們的業務的方法上非常具有策略性，這使我們能夠繼續產生超額的資本回報。

Another major component of our unique business model is our significant agency platform, which offers a premium value as it requires limited capital and generates significant long dated, predictable income streams and produces considerable annual cash flow.

我們獨特的商業模式的另一個主要組成部分是我們重要的代理平台，該平台提供溢價，因為它需要有限的資本，並產生大量長期、可預測的收入流，並產生可觀的年度現金流。

In the second quarter, we had a strong originations of $1.1 billion despite elevated rates for most of the quarter. The recent drop in the 10-year and the 5-year combined with tighter spreads has allowed us to continue to build a strong pipeline of future agency deals, giving us confidence in our ability to grow our agency volumes going forward.

儘管本季大部分時間利率有所上升，但第二季我們的初始收入仍高達 11 億美元。最近 10 年期和 5 年期的下降以及利差收窄使我們能夠繼續建立強大的未來代理交易管道，使我們對未來增加代理數量的能力充滿信心。

We have also done a great job in converting our balance sheet loans into agency products which has always been one of our key strategic and a significant differentiator from our peers. And it's also very important to emphasize that a significant portion of our business is in the workforce housing part of the marketplace. As we all know, Fannie and Freddie have a very specific mandate to address the workforce affordable housing needs, which is a major issue in the United States, making Arbor a great partner that continues to fulfill a very important mandate for the federal agencies as well as the social need for society.

我們在將資產負債表貸款轉化為代理產品方面也做得很好，這一直是我們的關鍵策略之一，也是我們與同行的顯著差異。同樣需要強調的是，我們的業務很大一部分是在市場的勞動力住房部分。眾所周知，房利美和房地美有一項非常具體的任務，即解決勞動力負擔得起的住房需求，這是美國的一個重大問題，這使得Arbor 成為一個偉大的合作夥伴，繼續履行聯邦機構的一項非常重要的任務作為社會的社會需要。

Our fee-based servicing portfolio, which grew another 3% this quarter, and 4% year-over-year to $32.3 billion generates approximately [$124 million] a year in reoccurring cash flow. We also generate significant earnings on our rest on cash balances, which act as a natural hedge against interest rates. In fact, we are earning 5% on around $2.4 billion of balances or roughly $120 million annually which combined with our service and income annuity totaled $245 million of annual gross cash earnings or $1.20 a share.

我們的收費服務組合本季再成長 3%，年增 4%，達到 323 億美元，每年產生約 [1.24 億美元]的經常性現金流。我們也透過現金餘額產生可觀的收益，這是對利率的自然對沖。事實上，我們約24 億美元的餘額（即每年約1.2 億美元）賺取了5% 的利潤，加上我們的服務和年金收入，年度總現金收入總計為2.45 億美元（即每股1.20 美元）。

This is in addition to the strong gain on sale margins we generate from our origination platform and is extremely important to emphasize that Agency business generates 45% of our net revenues, the vast majority of which occurs before we even open our doors each day. This is completely unique to our platform.

除此之外，我們還從我們的創始平台獲得了強勁的銷售利潤，並且非常重要的是要強調代理業務占我們淨收入的 45%，其中絕大多數發生在我們每天開門之前。這對我們的平台來說是完全獨特的。

In our single-family rental business, we continue to be the leader of choice in the premium market we traffic in. We had another strong quarter with $185 million of fundings and another $280 million of combined signed-up commitments. We have a large pipeline and remain committed to this business and it offers us returns on our capital through construction, bridge and permanent lending opportunities and generate strong levered returns in the short-term while providing significant long-term benefits by further diversifying our income streams.

在我們的單戶租賃業務中，我們繼續成為我們所涉足的高端市場的領導者。我們又迎來了一個強勁的季度，融資金額達 1.85 億美元，簽約承諾金額合計達 2.8 億美元。我們擁有龐大的管道，並繼續致力於這項業務，它透過建設、橋樑和永久貸款機會為我們提供資本回報，並在短期內產生強勁的槓桿回報，同時透過進一步使我們的收入流多樣化提供顯著的長期利益。

We're also seeing steady progress in our newly added construction lending business. This is a business we believe can produce very accretive returns on our capital by generating 10% to 12% unlevered returns initially and eventually mid to high-teens returns on our capital once we leverage this business.

我們也看到新增的建築貸款業務穩步進展。我們相信，這項業務最初可以產生 10% 到 12% 的無槓桿回報，一旦我們利用這項業務，最終可以產生中到高的資本回報，為我們的資本帶來非常豐厚的回報。

We continue to see a nice increase in our portfolio of potential deals with roughly $250 million under application, another $250 million in LOIs outstanding and $850 million of additional deals we are currently screening. We believe this product is very appropriate for our platform as it offers us returns on a capital through construction, bridge and permanent agency lending opportunities.

我們繼續看到我們的潛在交易組合大幅增加，正在申請的交易金額約為 2.5 億美元，未決意向書還有 2.5 億美元，我們目前正在篩選的額外交易金額為 8.5 億美元。我們相信該產品非常適合我們的平台，因為它透過建造、橋樑和永久代理貸款機會為我們提供資本回報。

In summary, we had another very productive quarter and are working exceptionally hard to manage through the teeth of this dislocation. We feel we have done an excellent job in working for our loan book and getting borrowers to recap their deals with fresh equity as well as bringing in quality sponsors to manage underperforming assets and working through our non-performing loans. We understand very well the challenges that lie ahead, and I feel we are well positioned.

總之，我們又度過了一個非常有成效的季度，並且正在非常努力地應對這種混亂。我們認為，我們在貸款帳簿方面做得非常出色，讓借款人用新的股權重新審視他們的交易，並引入優質贊助商來管理表現不佳的資產，並解決我們的不良貸款。我們非常了解未來面臨的挑戰，我覺得我們處於有利位置。

We have a diversified business model. We are invested in the right asset class with very stable liability structures. We're also well capitalized and a best-in-class asset management function and seasoned executive team giving us confidence in our ability to navigate through this distressed environment. And despite the misinformation circulated in the marketplace about our business strategies, we continue to reiterate that we stand by our financials and our disclosures, and we have always conducted our business operations and practices in the best interest of our shareholders.

我們擁有多元化的商業模式。我們投資於負債結構非常穩定的正確資產類別。我們也擁有充足的資本、一流的資產管理職能和經驗豐富的執行團隊，讓我們對自己度過這困境的能力充滿信心。儘管市場上流傳著有關我們業務策略的錯誤訊息，但我們繼續重申，我們堅持我們的財務狀況和資訊揭露，並且我們始終以股東的最佳利益為出發點進行業務運營和實踐。

I will now turn the call over to Paul to take you through the financial results.

現在我將把電話轉給保羅，讓他向您介紹財務表現。

Okay. Thank you, Ivan. We had another strong quarter, producing distributable earnings of $91.6 million or $0.45 per share which translated into ROEs of approximately 14% for the second quarter. As Ivan mentioned, we successfully modified 28 loans in the second quarter, totaling $733 million.

好的。謝謝你，伊凡。我們又度過了一個強勁的季度，可分配收益為 9,160 萬美元，每股 0.45 美元，換算成第二季度的 ROE 約為 14%。正如伊凡所提到的，我們在第二季成功修改了 28 筆貸款，總計 7.33 億美元。

On approximately $398 million of these loans, we required borrowers to invest additional capital to recap their deals with us providing some form of temporary rate relief through a pay and accrual feature. Pay rates were modified on average to approximately 7.18% with 2.14% of the residual interest due being deferred until maturity. $155 million of these loans were delinquent last quarter and are now current in accordance with their modified terms.

對於其中約 3.98 億美元的貸款，我們要求借款人投入額外的資本來回顧他們與我們的交易，透過支付和應計功能提供某種形式的臨時利率減免。平均支付率修改為約 7.18%，其中 2.14% 的剩餘利息延期至到期。這些貸款中有 1.55 億美元上季拖欠，目前已按照修改後的條款償還。

Our total delinquencies were $1.05 billion at June 30, compared to $954 million at March 31. These delinquencies are made up of two buckets, loans that are greater than 60-days past due and loans that are less than 60-days past due that we are not recording interest income on unless we believe the cash will be received.

截至 6 月 30 日，我們的拖欠總額為 10.5 億美元，而 3 月 31 日為 9.54 億美元。這些拖欠由兩類組成：逾期超過 60 天的貸款和逾期不到 60 天的貸款，除非我們相信會收到現金，否則我們不會記錄利息收入。

The 60-plus day delinquent loans or non-performing loans were approximately $667 million this quarter compared to $465 million last quarter due to approximately $264 million of loans progressing from less than 60-days delinquent to greater than 60-days past due. A $9 million loan that went non-performing this quarter, which was partially offset by $62 million of loans being modified in the second quarter that are now performing.

本季超過 60 天的拖欠貸款或不良貸款約為 6.67 億美元，而上季為 4.65 億美元，原因是約 2.64 億美元的貸款從拖欠天數少於 60 天發展為逾期超過 60 天。本季有 900 萬美元的不良貸款被第二季修改後的 6,200 萬美元貸款部分抵消，這些貸款目前正在正常運作。

The second bucket, consisting of loans that are less than 60-days past due came down to $368 million this quarter from $489 million last quarter, mostly due to $264 million of loans that progress to non-performing and $138 million of loans being modified or that paid off during the quarter, which was partially offset by approximately $281 million of new loans this quarter that we did not accrue interest on.

第二類貸款由逾期不到60 天的貸款組成，本季從上季的4.89 億美元降至3.68 億美元，主要原因是2.64 億美元的貸款轉為不良貸款，以及1.38 億美元的貸款被修改或修改。

And while we expect to continue to make progress in resolving these delinquencies, at the same time, we do anticipate that there'll be some new delinquencies in this environment. We're currently working through a number of these loans that we expect to resolve by taking back the properties and then working to improve these REO assets to create more of a current income stream.

雖然我們期望在解決這些拖欠問題方面繼續取得進展，但與此同時，我們確實預計在這種環境下將會出現一些新的拖欠問題。我們目前正在處理其中一些貸款，我們希望透過收回財產來解決這些貸款，然後努力改善這些 REO 資產，以創造更多的當前收入流。

This could take 60 to 120-days which will likely result in a low order mark for net interest income over the next couple of quarters until we have worked through this portfolio. This is what we expected and is consistent with our previous guidance that this would be the period of peak stress at the bottom of the cycle.

這可能需要 60 到 120 天的時間，這可能會導致未來幾季的淨利息收入處於較低水平，直到我們完成該投資組合為止。這是我們的預期，也與我們先前的指導一致，即這將是周期底部的壓力峰值時期。

We also continue to build our CECL reserves given the difficult market backdrop, recorded an additional $29 million on our balance sheet loan book in the second quarter. $7.5 million were specific reserves we took on assets this quarter with the balance in additional general reserves. The increase in general reserves from previous quarters was mainly due to changes in the assumptions in our models on real estate values given the challenging environment.

鑑於困難的市場背景，我們也繼續建立 CECL 儲備，第二季我們的資產負債表貸款帳簿上額外記錄了 2,900 萬美元。 750 萬美元是我們本季在資產上取得的特定準備金，其餘為額外一般準備金。一般準備金較前幾個季度增加的主要原因是，在充滿挑戰的環境下，我們對房地產價值模型的假設發生了變化。

We feel it is very important to emphasize that despite booking approximately $145 million in CECL reserves across our platform in the last 18-months, $117 million of which was in our balance sheet business, we still were able to maintain our book value. This performance is well above our peers, the vast majority of which have experienced significant book value erosion in this market.

我們認為有必要強調的是，儘管過去18 個月在我們的平台上登記了約1.45 億美元的CECL 準備金，其中1.17 億美元在我們的資產負債表業務中，但我們仍然能夠維持我們的賬面價值。這一業績遠高於我們的同行，絕大多數同行在這個市場上都經歷了帳面價值的嚴重侵蝕。

Additionally, we're one of the only companies in our space that has seen significant book value appreciation over the last five years with 30% growth during that time period versus our peers whose book values have declined at an average of approximately 20% in that timeframe.

此外，我們是該領域中唯一一家在過去五年中帳面價值大幅升值的公司之一，在此期間增長了 30%，而同期賬面價值平均下降約 20% 的同行大體時間。

As Ivan discussed earlier, we're pleased with the success we are having in working through our balance sheet loan book and in resolving our delinquencies. As we've stated many times, we have several recourse provisions in our loan documents that lend value to the resolution process.

正如伊凡之前討論的那樣，我們對在處理資產負債表貸款帳簿和解決拖欠問題方面所取得的成功感到高興。正如我們多次指出的，我們的貸款文件中有多項追索權條款，這些條款為解決過程提供了價值。

Last quarter, we realized a $1.6 million loss on $11.3 million loan that paid off at a discount. We immediately pursued one of our recourse provisions and are pleased to report that we received a $900,000 settlement payment in the second quarter related to this loan.

上個季度，我們以折扣價償還的 1,130 萬美元貸款損失了 160 萬美元。我們立即追索一項追索條款，並很高興地報告，我們在第二季度收到了與這筆貸款相關的 90 萬美元和解付款。

We also had a very successful resolution on the legacy REO office property that we foreclosed on back in the fourth quarter of 2021, through a lengthy marketing process we were able to sell this asset above our carrying value, resulting in a second quarter gain of $3.8 million.

我們也非常成功地解決了我們在2021 年第四季度取消贖回權的遺留REO 辦公物業的問題，透過漫長的行銷過程，我們能夠以高於帳面價值的價格出售該資產，從而實現第二季度收益3.8 美元百萬。

In our agency business, we had a strong second quarter with $1.1 billion origination and loan sales. The margins on our loan sales was flat at 1.54% for both the first and second quarters. We also recorded $14.5 million of mortgage servicing rights income related to $1.1 billion of committed loans in the second quarter representing an average MSR rate of around 1.32%, which was also flat compared to last quarter.

在我們的代理業務中，我們第二季度表現強勁，發放貸款和貸款銷售達 11 億美元。第一季和第二季我們的貸款銷售利潤率持平，為 1.54%。我們也記錄了與第二季 11 億美元承諾貸款相關的 1,450 萬美元抵押貸款服務權收入，平均 MSR 率為 1.32% 左右，與上季相比也持平。

Our fee-based servicing portfolio also grew to approximately $32.3 billion at June 30, with a weighted average servicing fee of 38 basis points and an estimated remaining life of 7.5 years. This portfolio will continue to generate a predictable annuity income going forward of around $124 million gross annually. And this income stream, combined with our earnings on escrows and gain on sale margins represented 45% of our net revenues for the quarter.

截至 6 月 30 日，我們的收費服務組合也成長至約 323 億美元，加權平均服務費為 38 個基點，預計剩餘壽命為 7.5 年。該投資組合將繼續產生每年約 1.24 億美元的可預測年金收入。這一收入流，加上我們的託管收益和銷售利潤收益，占我們本季淨收入的 45%。

In our balance sheet lending operation, our $11.9 billion investment portfolio had an all-in yield of 8.60% at June 30, compared to 8.81% at March 31, due to a combination of an increase in non-performing loans and some new loans that we did not make their full payment that we did not accrue interest on, which was partially offset by modifications in the second quarter on some of our previously delinquent loans.

在我們的資產負債表貸款業務中，我們119 億美元的投資組合截至6 月30 日的總收益率為8.60%，而3 月31 日為8.81%，這是由於不良貸款增加和一些新增貸款增加所致。 我們沒有全額支付我們沒有產生利息的款項，這部分被第二季度對我們之前拖欠的一些貸款的修改所抵消。

The average balance in our core investments was $12.2 billion this quarter compared to [$12.5 billion] last quarter due to runoff exceeding originations in the first and second quarter. The average yield on these assets decreased to 9% from 9.44% last quarter due to substantially more modifications in the first quarter, resulting in the collection of a significant amount of back interest owed combined with an increase in non-performing loans and some new non-accrual loans in the second quarter.

本季我們核心投資的平均餘額為 122 億美元，而上季為 [125 億美元]，因為第一季和第二季的徑流超過了初始投資。由於第一季大幅調整，這些資產的平均收益率從上個季度的 9.44% 下降至 9%，導致收回大量欠債，加上不良貸款和一些新增不良貸款增加。

Total debt on our core assets decreased to approximately $10.3 billion at June 30 from $11.1 billion at March 31, and mostly due to the unwind of CLO 15 and the paydown of other CLO debt with cash in those vehicles in the second quarter. The all-in cost of debt was up to approximately 7.53% at 6/30 and versus 7.44% at 3/31. The average balance on our debt facilities was approximately $10.8 billion for the first quarter compared to $11.4 billion last quarter.

我們核心資產的總債務從3 月31 日的111 億美元減少至6 月30 日的約103 億美元，這主要是由於CLO 15 的解除以及第二季度用這些工具中的現金償還了其他CLO 債務。6/30 時，總債務成本高達約 7.53%，而 3/31 時為 7.44%。第一季我們的債務融資平均餘額約為 108 億美元，而上季為 114 億美元。

The average cost of funds in our debt facility was up slightly 7.4% for the second quarter compared to 7.50% for the first quarter. Our overall net interest spreads in our core assets decreased to 1.46% this quarter compared to 1.94% last quarter again, from a significant amount of back interest collected in the first quarter for modifications. And our overall spot net interest spreads were down to 1.07% at June 30 from 1.37% at March 31, and mostly due to an increase in non-performing and non-accrued loans during the quarter.

第二季我們債務融資的平均資金成本小幅上升 7.4%，而第一季為 7.50%。我們核心資產的整體淨利差本季下降至 1.46%，而上季為 1.94%，這是由於第一季收取的大量修改利息所致。我們的整體即期淨利差從 3 月 31 日的 1.37% 降至 6 月 30 日的 1.07%，這主要是由於本季不良貸款和應計貸款的增加。

Lastly, as we continue to shrink our balance sheet loan book, we have delevered our business 25% over the last 18-months to a leverage ratio of 3:1 from a peak of around 4:1. Equally as important, our leverage consists of around 67% non-recourse non-mark-to-market CLO debt with pricing that is below the current market, providing strong levered returns on our capital.

最後，隨著我們繼續縮減資產負債表貸款帳簿，我們在過去 18 個月內將業務槓桿率降低了 25%，槓桿率從高峰 4:1 左右降至 3:1。同樣重要的是，我們的槓桿率由約 67% 的無追索權、非以市價計價的 CLO 債務組成，其定價低於當前市場，為我們的資本提供了強勁的槓桿回報。

That completes our prepared remarks for this morning, and I'll now turn it back to the operator to take any questions you guys may have at this time. Angela?

我們今天早上準備好的發言就到此結束了，現在我將把它轉回給接線員，回答你們此時可能提出的任何問題。安吉拉？

(Operator Instructions).

（操作員說明）。

Steve DeLaney, JMP Securities.

史蒂夫·德萊尼，JMP 證券。

Thank you. Good morning Ivan and Paul. Congratulations on a solid performance in this difficult market. One of the things we noticed, obviously, you're very active on modifying loans of the 60-day or less bucket. We did notice that, number of loans and the dollar amount declined. The figures, but in the quarter, 2Q, fewer loans to modify than in the 1Q. Looking at the modifications, which I guess so far this year, 67 modifications, $2.5 billion of loans. Looking at taking that data and then looking at the NPLs, which increased slightly in the second quarter to 24 loans and $676 million. The question is just in terms of your process. Is it still -- once you classify an loan as an NPL, are you still actively working to -- could you modify that loan and get it back in a current state or once they go to NPL, is there a much higher probability that it might end up in REO? Thanks.

謝謝。早安，伊凡和保羅。恭喜您在這個困難的市場中取得了穩健的表現。顯然，我們注意到的一件事是，您非常積極地修改 60 天或更少期限的貸款。我們確實注意到，貸款數量和金額有所下降。從數字來看，但在第二季度，修改的貸款比第一季要少。看看修改，我猜今年到目前為止，有 67 項修改，貸款額為 25 億美元。看看這些數據，然後看看不良貸款，第二季不良貸款略有增加，達到 24 筆貸款和 6.76 億美元。問題僅在於您的流程。一旦您將貸款歸類為不良貸款，您是否仍在積極努力修改該貸款並將其恢復到當前狀態，或者一旦它們進入不良貸款，是否有更高的可能性可能最終進入REO？謝謝。

Thanks, Steve. Let me give you a little overall view of the process. We're talking about an overall number of about $1 billion, give or take. And we believe we're pretty much in the peak part of the cycle with the most rest. And as you know, the $1 billion has a negative effect on our financial performance, which is factored in because we're not accounting for the income on that. So it's really incumbent on us to give you a good view of how that $1 billion is going to flow through the system.

謝謝，史蒂夫。讓我給您簡要介紹一下整個過程。我們談論的總數約為 10 億美元，無論多少。我們相信我們幾乎處於週期的高峰期，休息時間也最多。如您所知，這 10 億美元對我們的財務表現產生了負面影響，之所以將其考慮在內，是因為我們沒有考慮這方面的收入。因此，我們確實有責任讓您清楚了解這 10 億美元將如何流經該系統。

I'm pretty involved in this stuff. So we look at it this way. Of the $1 billion we estimate about 30% of the REO. That's the toughest part of it. Those of you who are ones that are not consensual they take a bit of time. And they're not income-producing for us for that period of time. And it could take anywhere from three months to a year depending on the jurisdiction and then us getting into those assets and bring them up to speed and then getting them cash flow and selling them.

我對這件事很有興趣。所以我們這樣看。在這 10 億美元中，我們估計約佔 REO 的 30%。這是最困難的部分。你們中那些不同意的人需要一些時間。在那段時間裡，它們並沒有為我們帶來收入。根據司法管轄區的不同，這可能需要三個月到一年的時間，然後我們進入這些資產並加快它們的速度，然後獲得現金流並出售它們。

So that's the stickiest part. There's about another 10% or 15% of that we're working with the existing sponsors to bring in new sponsorship. And we believe that over a period of just three to six months, get those assets will have new buyers in them. And we estimate that just to be conservative, it will throw off about a 6% return once that's done.

所以這是最棘手的部分。我們正在與現有贊助商合作引入新的贊助，其中大約還有 10% 或 15%。我們相信，在短短三到六個月的時間內，取得這些資產就會有新的買家。我們估計，保守地說，一旦完成，它將帶來約 6% 的回報。

In that $1 billion, we estimate there's going to be about 40% of payoffs just because the assets are being sold. It's just a normal process. And then the other 40% are in the process of being moded, that -- mods take time. And a big part of what we do is we proceed to foreclosure when a loan is not paying. And that path to a foreclosure usually leads to a very effective process of getting moded.

我們估計，在這 10 億美元中，大約有 40% 的回報只是因為資產被出售。這只是一個正常的過程。然後另外 40% 正在修改過程中，修改需要時間。我們所做的很大一部分就是在貸款無法支付時取消抵押品贖回權。這條通往取消抵押品贖回權的道路通常會導致一個非常有效的調整過程。

So we would estimate that that's the product that's moved through the system, the quickest and generally, the average time is probably 90-days and then it returns to an interest-earning asset and we use about a 7% rate on that. So we're in the thick of it. It's about $1 billion. We expect to get it through the system. There will be some new ones coming in. But that's what we're expecting. Clearly, this drop in interest rates is extremely favorable for the company and it's business model as it will stimulate more multifamily sales and people will be able to buy these assets with more affordable financing.

因此，我們估計這是透過系統移動的產品，速度最快，一般來說，平均時間可能是 90 天，然後它會回到生息資產，我們對此使用大約 7% 的利率。所以我們正處於困境之中。大約是10億美元。我們希望透過系統得到它。將會有一些新的進來。但這正是我們所期待的。顯然，利率下降對該公司及其商業模式極為有利，因為它將刺激更多的多戶住宅銷售，人們將能夠以更實惠的融資購買這些資產。

Got it. Well, what I heard you say there, Ivan, is that because something is currently classified as an NPL, there is still a possibility that those loans could be modified. Did I hear you correctly?

知道了。嗯，伊万，我聽到你說的是，因為某些東西目前被歸類為不良貸款，所以這些貸款仍然有可能被修改。我沒聽錯嗎？

Yeah. I'm thinking about 40% of them based on, maybe based on what I see in the portfolio, I'm pretty intimate with the asset management group and the progress they're making. It takes time for a lot of these borrowers to find the capital and get these things brought up to speed. So that would be the approximate number. I would be using to get it modified.

是的。我對其中 40% 的考慮是基於，也許是基於我在投資組合中看到的，我對資產管理團隊及其所取得的進展非常熟悉。許多藉款人需要時間才能找到資金並加快這些事情的進展。這就是大概的數字。我會用它來修改它。

Great. And the 30% to REO, Paul, I look on the balance sheet, can you tell us what's in REO currently? And I assume you have that in other assets? We couldn't find...

偉大的。30% 給 REO，Paul，我查看資產負債表，您能告訴我們 REO 目前有什麼嗎？我想你在其他資產也有這樣的東西嗎？我們找不到...

We do, Steve. We absolutely do. So it is in other assets. REO is $78 million right now on our books. It's sitting in other assets. We did sell, as I said, the South Carolina office property that we our books for $10 million. So it was $88 million last quarter at $78 million this quarter. And of that $78 million, just to give you a little color, the two biggest ticket items is a $41 million New York City office property we took back in 4Q of 2023 that we disclosed and that's a building that we brought in new sponsorship and are converting it to a condo, and that will take some time.

我們願意，史蒂夫。我們絕對願意。其他資產也是如此。REO 目前帳面上的資產為 7,800 萬美元。它位於其他資產中。正如我所說，我們確實以 1000 萬美元的價格出售了我們預訂的南卡羅來納州辦公大樓。因此，上季為 8,800 萬美元，本季為 7,800 萬美元。在這7800 萬美元中，只是為了給你一點顏色，兩個最大的門票項目是我們在2023 年第四季度收回的價值4100 萬美元的紐約市辦公地產，我們披露了這一點，這是我們帶來了新贊助的一棟建築，將其轉換為公寓，這需要一些時間。

And then the other big piece is, we have about a $30 million multifamily deal in Texas that we took back in the fourth quarter of '22 that we're working through. And then there's some little odds and ends. But it's a small number. But as Ivan said, we are expecting, as we work through this $1 billion and that -- a decent amount more could go REO, and that number will grow, right, Ivan, that's what we're talking about.

另一個重要的部分是，我們在德克薩斯州有一項價值約 3000 萬美元的多戶住宅交易，我們正在處理該交易，並在 22 年第四季度收回該交易。然後還有一些小雜事。但這是一個很小的數字。但正如伊万所說，我們預計，當我們完成這 10 億美元的工作時，REO 可能會投入更多資金，而且這個數字還會增長，對吧，伊万，這就是我們正在談論的內容。

Yeah, that's the guidance that I gave, about 30%.

是的，這就是我給的指導，大約 30%。

Thank you both for your comments.

謝謝兩位的評論。

Thanks, Steve.

謝謝，史蒂夫。

Stephen Laws, Raymond James.

史蒂芬勞斯，雷蒙德詹姆斯。

Hi. Good morning. Just a follow-up, a minor point on the REO, about how many assets is that? What is the average loan size consistent with kind of the $20 million for the portfolio? Or how do you see that, I guess, $300 million of potential REOs from a property count standpoint?

你好。早安.只是一個後續問題，REO 的一個小問題，關於有多少資產？與 2000 萬美元投資組合相符的平均貸款規模是多少？或者，我猜，從財產數量的角度來看，您如何看待 3 億美元的潛在 REO？

We'll take a look at the list. I would think yes, but Paul can be more accurate. It's probably an average loan size of around $30 million.

我們將看一下該列表。我想是的，但保羅可以更準確。平均貸款規模可能約 3000 萬美元。

Yeah. We have some chunkier stuff we're looking at, Stephen, that was in the $50 million, maybe even $100 million, but that's not a lot of what we do. And then we have some [$10 million and $15 million and $20 million]. So it's hard to really project where these are all going to end up. But I would say that we're thinking it's probably in the $30 million to $40 million average range.

是的。史蒂芬，我們正在研究一些更厚重的東西，價值 5000 萬美元，甚至可能是 1 億美元，但這並不是我們所做的很多事情。然後我們有一些[1000 萬美元、1500 萬美元和 2000 萬美元]。所以很難真正預測這些最終會發生在哪裡。但我想說的是，我們認為平均價格可能在 3000 萬美元到 4000 萬美元之間。

Great. And then, Ivan, I want to go back to something you commented on around interest rates. And you said we go below 4%, certainly beneficial. And I think since the last time we spoke at the long end of the curve is down almost 100 basis points or fairly close.

偉大的。然後，伊万，我想回到您關於利率的評論。你說我們降到 4% 以下，當然是有利的。我認為自上次我們在曲線長端講話以來，該曲線已經下降了近 100 個基點或相當接近。

Can you talk about maybe how -- and I know that most recently, it's only been a couple of weeks, but can you talk about how that maybe has changed behavior from sponsors? Do you think, they're more likely to protect assets, cheaper to buy new caps? And then how do you think it impacts agency volumes as you move forward?

你能談談也許是如何——我知道最近才過了幾週，但你能談談這可能如何改變了贊助商的行為嗎？您是否認為，他們更有可能保護資產，購買新上限更便宜？那麼您認為隨著您的發展，它會如何影響代理商的數量？

Well, let me address the cap issue. The cap issue has been an extremely expensive proposition from lot of these sponsors assuming for the last three years, they've had to pile in another 6 to 8 points of capital to buy caps. We believe the curve is going to change and the cost of caps, it's going to go down, which believes they're paying a little bit. That's on that side. But the real meaningful issue is the drop in the five-year and the 10-year, I mean you could effectively borrow close to 5% off the five-year.

好吧，讓我來談談上限問題。對於許多贊助商來說，上限問題是一個極其昂貴的提議，他們認為在過去的三年裡，他們必須另外投入 6 到 8 個百分點的資本來購買上限。我們相信曲線將會改變，上限的成本將會下降，這相信他們會付出一點點。就是在那邊。但真正有意義的問題是五年期和十年期的下降，我的意思是你可以有效地借到五年期近 5% 的利息。

Up until now, people are paying close to 6%, 6.5%, but spreads have tightened, rates have come down. So if you have a borrower currently paying on a floating rate basis, close to 9%, you can then go ahead and pay 5%. So that's a great option for that particular borrower, even if they put a little more capital into it, and they can secure long-term financing and really put themselves from a negative cash position into a positive cash position assuming of an asset, that's 6%, 6.5% cap rate all of a sudden you've created positive cash flow from negative cash flow, and that's becoming very meaningful.

到目前為止，人們支付的利率接近 6%、6.5%，但利差已經收緊，利率已經下降。因此，如果您的借款人目前以浮動利率（接近 9%）付款，那麼您可以繼續支付 5%。因此，對於特定借款人來說，這是一個很好的選擇，即使他們投入更多的資本，他們也可以獲得長期融資，並真正將自己從負現金頭寸轉變為正現金頭寸（假設資產為6 ） %、6.5% 的資本化率突然之間你就從負現金流創造了正現金流，這變得非常有意義。

The real key for people is are they managing their assets while they stabilized because then we get fixed rate financing in the 90-plus occupancy somewhere in that range. So to the extent people have their assets stabilized, then that becomes a great option for them, and we'll relieve the pain of carrying those assets, which have been extremely painful.

對人們來說，真正的關鍵是他們在穩定的同時管理自己的資產，因為這樣我們就可以在這個範圍內的 90 多個入住率中獲得固定利率融資。因此，只要人們的資產穩定下來，那麼這對他們來說就是一個很好的選擇，我們將減輕攜帶這些資產的痛苦，這是非常痛苦的。

Make no mistake about it. When you going to borrow a loan and you're paying 4.5% to 5%, and the next thing you're paying 9%, and it's for a prolonged period of time, you have a lot of capital needs. So I think we're at a great inflection point right now for many of these borrowers if their assets are stabilized that they can look through the fixed rate market and reposition our assets if -- and not have negative trend.

別搞錯了。當你要藉一筆貸款時，你要支付 4.5% 到 5% 的利率，接下來你要支付 9%，並且持續很長一段時間，你就會有大量的資金需求。因此，我認為，對於許多藉款人來說，我們現在正處於一個巨大的轉折點，如果他們的資產穩定下來，他們可以透過固定利率市場重新定位我們的資產，如果——而且沒有負面趨勢。

Great. Appreciate those comments, Ivan. And one last one, if I may. On portfolio seasoning. Origination volume was very strong in 2021, in the first half of 2022, really lightened up a lot in the second half of 2022. As you think about the seasoning of those loans, is it fair to say that you've covered the $1 billion of NPLs. But should we continue to see kind of the new 60-day delinquency start to decline. I know there'll be more and then some will move. But are we past the peak of kind of identifying the problem loans as you think about your portfolio?

偉大的。感謝這些評論，伊凡。如果可以的話，還有最後一件事。關於投資組合調味。2021年的發行量非常強勁，2022年上半年，2022年下半年確實減倉了很多。當您考慮這些貸款的情況時，可以公平地說您已經彌補了 10 億美元的不良貸款嗎？但我們是否應該繼續看到新的 60 天拖欠率開始下降。我知道會有更多，然後有些人會搬家。但是，當您考慮您的投資組合時，我們是否已過了識別問題貸款的高峰期？

I think that we've given pretty good guidance that the first quarter and second quarter would be peak stress and if rates remain higher for longer would leak into the third and the fourth quarter. I believe that with this rate moved down, I think you'll see the market change a little bit. So perhaps the third quarter may be a little bit tough, but we're seeing a little bit of easing and if rates remain in this level, I believe there'll be a lot of liquidity to return to a multifamily sector and a lot of trades being done. So I'm hopeful and optimistic that perhaps the second quarter was the peak, little leakage into third, but we're definitely seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.

我認為我們已經給出了很好的指導，第一季和第二季將是壓力峰值，如果利率在較長時間內保持較高水平，則會滲透到第三和第四季。我相信隨著這個利率的下降，我想你會看到市場發生一些變化。因此，也許第三季可能會有點艱難，但我們看到了一點寬鬆，如果利率保持在這個水平，我相信將會有大量流動性返回多戶住宅領域，並且大量交易正在進行中。因此，我充滿希望和樂觀地認為，也許第二季度是頂峰，第三季幾乎沒有洩漏，但我們肯定看到了隧道盡頭的曙光。

Well, that's great to hear. And nice job managing our assets in a difficult market and look forward to next quarter. Thank you.

嗯，很高興聽到這個消息。在困難的市場中管理我們的資產做得很好，並期待下個季度。謝謝。

Thanks, Steve.

謝謝，史蒂夫。

Rick Shane, JPMorgan.

里克·肖恩，摩根大通。

Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my questions this morning. A couple of different things, just from a bookkeeping perspective, cash balances within the structured business declined by about 50%. I assume some of the decline in the restricted cash is from calling the CLO. But can you just help us understand what's going on there?

嘿，夥計們。感謝您今天早上回答我的問題。有一些不同的事情，僅從簿記的角度來看，結構化業務內的現金餘額下降了約 50%。我認為受限現金的部分減少是由於致電 CLO。但你能幫助我們了解那裡發生了什麼事嗎？

Yeah, sure. I mean the reason we did call our CLO was because we were sitting on excess cash balances and it was inefficient. So that's expensive to be sitting on cash balances which are being deployed. So in the normal course of business when we have those excess cash balance and can use them, that's why we call a vehicle. And the efficiency of these vehicles is to keep the cash balance as low as possible. So we achieved exactly what we wanted.

是的，當然。我的意思是，我們打電話給 CLO 的原因是因為我們持有過多的現金餘額，而且效率低。因此，持有正在部署的現金餘額的成本是昂貴的。因此，在正常業務過程中，當我們擁有多餘的現金餘額並且可以使用它們時，這就是我們稱之為車輛的原因。這些工具的效率就是保持現金餘額盡可能低。所以我們完全達到了我們想要的目的。

Yeah. And to add to that, Rick, that is a big piece of it. The other piece of it is some of these vehicles, as you know, are out of replenishment period, so they're naturally de-levering as loans are running off. So the restricted cash is paying down debt and that's part of the component as well. And then the third component is that we did pay off $90 million of unsecured debt in April, as you are aware, with cash. So those are kind of the three big components that got you a decrease in cash for the quarter.

是的。除此之外，瑞克，這是其中一個重要的部分。另一方面，正如你所知，其中一些車輛已經過了補充期，因此隨著貸款的耗盡，它們自然會去槓桿化。因此，受限制的現金正在償還債務，這也是組成部分的一部分。第三部分是，如您所知，我們在 4 月確實用現金償還了 9,000 萬美元的無擔保債務。這些都是導致本季現金減少的三大因素。

Okay. Thank you. Second topic, you talked about modifying $730 million of loans in the second quarter. We've gone through the disclosure in the last Q related to mods. And I'm going to be honest, I don't fully understand all of the implications. Can we just walk through clearly the implications of the mods in this quarter in terms of what it means for the difference in cash that you will receive and the difference in interest accrual?

好的。謝謝。第二個主題，您談到修改第二季7.3億美元的貸款。我們已經在上一個問題中詳細介紹了與 mod 相關的內容。老實說，我並不完全理解所有的意義。我們能否清楚地解釋一下本季的修改對於您將收到的現金差異和應計利息差異意味著什麼？

So if you do modify the loans, what would you have expected to receive? How much are you giving up in cash over the next year or two? And what is the difference in the accrual rate so we understand the implications from an income perspective?

那麼，如果您確實修改貸款，您期望收到什麼？未來一兩年你會放棄多少現金？應計利率有何差異，以便我們能從收入角度來理解其影響？

Okay. So let me try to attempt to answer that. It's a little more complicated than that, and our Q will be out early next week, we hope. So you'll get more details on that disclosure. But the way I think I look at it and don't know it'll completely answer your question is we did mod a $1.9 billion or $2 billion of loans last quarter. I think $1.1 billion had paying accrual features.

好的。那麼讓我試著回答這個問題。情況比這要複雜一些，我們希望我們的 Q 將於下週初發布。因此，您將獲得有關該披露的更多詳細資訊。但我認為我看待它的方式並不知道它會完全回答你的問題，我們上個季度確實調整了 19 億美元或 20 億美元的貸款。我認為 11 億美元具有支付應計功能。

And so what we did was we -- what management does is we look at every single loan we modify and we go through it on a loan-by-loan basis to determine how strongly we feel the value in the mod has put us in a position, we'll still be able to recover the accrued interest.

因此，我們所做的是——管理層所做的是，我們查看我們修改的每筆貸款，並在逐筆貸款的基礎上進行審查，以確定我們對 mod 中的價值的感受有多強烈。頭寸，我們仍然能夠收回應計利息。

If we don't feel we're in that position, we won't clearly accrued interest. If we do, we accrue it. For the most part, we accrue it. There are exceptions, there are loans that we decide not to accrue the accrual rate after the mod if we think it's still a challenging asset.

如果我們不覺得自己處於那個位置，我們就不會明顯地累積利息。如果我們這樣做，我們就會累積它。在大多數情況下，我們會累積它。也有例外，如果我們認為某些貸款仍然是一項具有挑戰性的資產，我們決定在調整後不提列應計利率。

Having said that, in the first quarter, our mods generated about -- right here. I'm going to get it in front of me. Our mods generated about, call it, $3 million of accrued interest that hit our P&L that wasn't cash. In the second quarter, those first quarter mods were now $6 million of accrued interest that didn't hit cash because it was for a full quarter. And the second quarter mods were $2 million in the second quarter of accrued interest.

話雖如此，在第一季度，我們的模組就在這裡產生了大約。我要把它拿到我面前。我們的模組產生了約 300 萬美元的應計利息，這些利息影響了我們的損益表，但並非現金。在第二季度，第一季的應計利息現在為 600 萬美元，並沒有兌現現金，因為它是整個季度的。第二季的應計利息為 200 萬美元。

So our PIK interest, as you call it, for 1Q mods was about $3 million in the first quarter. In the second quarter, the 1Q mods were $6 million and the 2Q mods were $2 million for a total of $8 million. So that number will obviously grow because the second quarter numbers, the mods will be fully affected in the third quarter and fourth quarter and then if we mod new loans. I don't know if that's answering your question, but that's the numbers, for the first and second quarter mods of how those accrual rates that we accrued affected interest income but not cash.

因此，正如您所說，我們對第一季模組的 PIK 興趣在第一季約為 300 萬美元。第二季度，第一季模組銷售額為 600 萬美元，第二季模組銷售額為 200 萬美元，總計 800 萬美元。因此，這個數字顯然會成長，因為第二季的數字，將在第三季和第四季受到充分影響，然後如果我們調整新貸款。我不知道這是否回答了您的問題，但這就是第一季和第二季的數字，說明我們應計的應計利率如何影響利息收入，但不影響現金。

Well no, it's a very thoughtful question to -- response to a question. I wasn't sure objectively that you would be able to answer. And so I was a little bit circumspect about asking that. So, thank you. It's very helpful.

嗯，不，這是一個非常深思熟慮的問題——回答問題。我客觀地不確定你是否能夠回答。所以我問這個問題時有點謹慎。所以，謝謝你。這非常有幫助。

Last question, implicitly, the mods, $23 million of additional capital on $730 million of mods, that's about a 315 basis point contribution of capital. I'd love to understand that in the context of your comment and answer or two ago about caps running 6% to 8% for your borrowers. I'm just curious how we sort of square those two numbers?

最後一個問題，隱含地是 mods，7.3 億美元的 mods 上有 2300 萬美元的額外資本，這大約是 315 個基點的資本貢獻。我很想了解您一兩次之前關於為借款人提供 6% 至 8% 上限的評論和答案。我只是好奇我們如何對這兩個數字平方？

Okay. It's 6% to 8% over a two to three-year period, each year a cap cost can be anywhere between 1.5% to 3% depending on the loan. So in context, we're looking at more of an annual an accumulative on that number. But Paul can give you a good number in terms of the mods and how they work for the second quarter.

好的。兩到三年期間的利率為 6% 到 8%，每年的上限成本可能在 1.5% 到 3% 之間，具體取決於貸款情況。因此，在上下文中，我們更關注該數字的年度累積。但保羅可以給你提供有關第二季度的模組及其工作方式的詳細數字。

Sure, I can. So of the $733 million of loans we moded, and $23 million of capital is committed to be injected. $6 million of that capital went to buy rate caps and they're at all different strike prices. Rick, somewhere out of the money strike, some are way in the money strikes. And I think the average strike was about 3.7%. And then the rest, we had one loan that paid down the principal balance by $2 million. We had pass-through interest of about $2 million that was collected and then the rest were to fund rental reserves, interest reserves and OpEx reserves. Those are kind of how it breaks out if that helps you.

當然，我可以。因此，在我們發放的 7.33 億美元貸款中，有 2,300 萬美元的資本承諾注入。其中 600 萬美元用於購買利率上限，而且它們的執行價格各不相同。里克，在金錢罷工之外的某個地方，有些人在金錢罷工中。我認為平均罷工率為 3.7% 左右。然後剩下的，我們有一筆貸款償還了 200 萬美元的本金餘額。我們收取了約 200 萬美元的轉嫁利息，其餘的則用於支付租金準備金、利息準備金和營運支出準備金。如果這對你有幫助的話，這就是它的爆發方式。

It does. Very thoughtful answers. I appreciate the time. I would, throw in one last request. There are a lot of numbers that get thrown around on these calls. You guys are unique amongst the companies that we follow and not providing a slide deck on the calls. And I think given the complexity of what Paul, you've described, it would be really helpful if people could see the numbers and you could be walking through slides on the call. So I'm just going to throw that out there, but I appreciate the time guys.

確實如此。非常周到的答案。我很感激時間。我會提出最後一個請求。這些電話中會出現許多數字。在我們關注的公司中，你們是獨一無二的，而且沒有在電話會議上提供幻燈片。我認為考慮到保羅所描述的內容的複雜性，如果人們能夠看到這些數字並且你可以在電話會議中瀏覽幻燈片，那將會非常有幫助。所以我只是想把它扔出去，但我很感謝你們花時間。

Sure. Thanks. Thanks, Rick. We appreciate it. We always want to be more transparent and have the best disclosures. We try to be when the Q gets filed, there'll be a lot of good information there. And then we'll always take into consideration whether we think we can put it in a better form for readers. And thank you for that comment.

當然。謝謝。謝謝，瑞克。我們很感激。我們始終希望更加透明並進行最好的披露。我們盡力在提交問題時提供許多有用的信息。然後我們會始終考慮是否可以為讀者提供更好的形式。感謝您的評論。

Great. Thanks, guys.

偉大的。謝謝，夥計們。

Jade Rahmani, KBW.

傑德·拉赫馬尼，KBW。

Thank you very much. Can you please give the second quarter or six-month year-to-date cash flow from operations number?

非常感謝。您能否提供第二季或年初至今六個月的營運現金流量資料？

Yeah, it's in the 10 -- well, you don't have the 10-Q, obviously, it's not filed yet. So I'll give it to you. So the cash flow from operations number is $335 million, but you got to back out the changes in the originations and sales of held to sale assets, which is $220 million swings. And then you've got $90 million in changes in operating assets. So call it, $335 million is cash flow from operations for the six months and then you have a $220 million positive swing on originations less proceeds from sales and $100 million negative swing in the change in operating assets and liabilities.

是的，它在 10 中——嗯，你沒有 10-Q，顯然，它還沒有提交。所以我會把它給你。因此，來自營運的現金流量為 3.35 億美元，但您必須抵銷持有至出售資產的起源和銷售的變化，即 2.2 億美元的波動。然後你就會得到 9000 萬美元的營運資產變化。這麼說吧，3.35 億美元是這六個月的營運現金流，然後你會發現2.2 億美元的正向波動減去銷售收入，而1 億美元的負向波動則來自於營運資產和負債的變化。

Okay. That's great. The NPLs of around $1 billion. Do you have any numbers in mind as to where that total balance peaks?

好的。那太棒了。不良貸款約10億美元。您是否知道總餘額達到高峰的數字？

Yeah. I'd say we're within the range of the peak right now. I mean, maybe you can go up a little bit more, but we're kind of in the peak period of time. We're pretty optimistic about the number I've given you on the mods because we're pretty close to a conclusion on those mods. So I think that's a good number to ballpark.

是的。我想說我們現在處於峰值範圍內。我的意思是，也許你可以再上升一點，但我們正處於高峰期。我們對我給你的關於模組的數字非常樂觀，因為我們已經非常接近關於這些模組的結論了。所以我認為這是一個很好的數字。

Yeah. It's a tough one to predict, as you know, I mean, I think Ivan is right. It kind of has -- it's gone up a little bit since the first quarter, not significantly $954 million to $1.05 billion. We do expect a few more delinquencies. Hopefully, we're at the peak, but we do have our eyes on a bunch of loans that are delinquent that we're going to successfully mod -- so hopefully, that number will not peak higher. And then we're going to have some of those loans come out and be REO, right. So its be on a different line item, but there'll still be they'll still be nonperforming until we work through them. So it's a tough answer, but I think Ivan is right. I think we feel like it shouldn't be significantly.

是的。如你所知，這是一個很難預測的事情，我的意思是，我認為伊凡是對的。自第一季以來，它略有上升，從 9.54 億美元增至 10.5 億美元，增幅不大。我們確實預期會有更多的拖欠行為。希望我們正處於頂峰，但我們確實著眼於一堆拖欠的貸款，我們將成功調整這些貸款——所以希望這個數字不會達到更高的峰值。然後我們將發放其中一些貸款並成為 REO，對吧。因此，它位於不同的訂單項目上，但在我們解決它們之前，它們仍然會表現不佳。所以這是一個艱難的答案，但我認為伊凡是對的。我認為我們認為這不應該是顯著的。

Yeah. I mean, what I would do is the sticky part is the REO because it takes you take time to get your hands on the asset. And then once you get your hands on the asset, you've got to stabilize that asset. That's a sticky part. The rest is somewhat transition.

是的。我的意思是，我要做的是黏性部分是 REO，因為你需要時間才能獲得該資產。一旦你拿到了資產，你就必須穩定該資產。那是一個黏性的部分。剩下的就是一些過渡。

And when you look at the NPL and taking learning what's been going on in this cycle, do they have anything in common in terms of maybe one issue that's been driving it? Do you think the main issue is really the borrowers basis than having paid too much to lower cap rate for the assets or to think of and perhaps it's sponsorship, maybe leverage ratio or the third category (multiple speakers) underperformance.

當你觀察 NPL 並了解這一週期中發生的情況時，你會發現它們在推動這個週期的一個問題方面是否有任何共同點？您是否認為主要問題實際上是藉款人的基礎，而不是支付太多費用來降低資產上限利率，或者考慮也許是贊助，也許是槓桿率或第三類（多個發言者）表現不佳。

It's a whole flow of activities. And clearly, when interest rates go up as dramatically as they did whatever (technical difficulty) we've been a low interest rate market forever. That's probably the single biggest driver. I've said in many calls before, the impact of COVID had a very significant impact because people were not able to move out tenants for many, many years. We've had in some of these properties 10% to 15%, even 20% economic occupancy where tenants are living for three, four years without paying rent. That was a big factor. That's an unanticipated factor.

這是一個完整的活動流程。顯然，當利率像他們所做的那樣急劇上升（技術困難）時，我們就永遠是一個低利率市場。這可能是最大的推動因素。我之前在很多電話中說過，新冠疫情的影響非常重大，因為人們很多很多年都無法搬離租戶。其中一些房產的經濟入住率為 10% 到 15%，甚至 20%，租戶無需支付租金即可居住三、四年。這是一個很大的因素。這是一個意想不到的因素。

And third factor, which we spoke about as well is the increase in insurance costs. I mean a doubled, tripled and quadrupled they're coming down a little bit now. The insurance costs, the economic activities going -- you can't predict those. So that creates a lot of headwind.

我們也談到的第三個因素是保險費用的增加。我的意思是，現在已經下降了一倍、三倍和四倍。保險費用、正在進行的經濟活動——你無法預測這些。所以這造成了很多阻力。

I think when people going to a buying frenzy in the top market, they focus on buying and not on management. And that's something that we've certainly learned a lot from because if one thing could be an effective capital raiser and buyer of an asset, just another thing to be an effective manager.

我認為，當人們在頂級市場瘋狂購買時，他們關注的是購買而不是管理。我們確實從中學到了很多東西，因為如果一件事可以成為有效的資本籌集者和資產購買者，那麼成為有效的管理者則是另一回事。

So management choose a lot of those and one of the strict things that's extremely important for us when we're modifying alone is that if we don't think these assets being managed appropriately, either we won't modify and we'll take it to REO or will assist and make sure they bring in new management. Management is also is a major part.

因此，管理層選擇了很多這樣的東西，當我們單獨進行修改時，對我們來說極其重要的嚴格的事情之一是，如果我們認為這些資產沒有得到適當的管理，我們要么不會修改，要么會接受它REO 或將協助並確保他們引入新的管理層。管理也是一個主要部分。

That's excellent. Thank you. My last question would just be on the GSEs. We've seen a lot of stories around the being pretty cautious right now, not just the Meridian issue, which started back in maybe in the third quarter of last year. But there have been others appraisers, local small regional title companies -- what exactly do you think is going on with the GSEs? Are they tracking down? Are they tightening their underwriting standards? Or are those just sort of a select few cases?

那太好了。謝謝。我的最後一個問題是關於 GSE。我們已經看到很多關於現在非常謹慎的故事，而不僅僅是子午線問題，這個問題可能早在去年第三季就開始了。但還有其他評估師、當地小型區域產權公司——您認為 GSE 究竟發生了什麼？他們正在追蹤嗎？他們是否收緊承保標準？或者這些只是少數案例？

I think in every cycle, you always have certain things that happen and in this cycle with all the volume, these sort of things that occur. And clearly, the agencies have changed their attitude toward brokers. And Meridian is just a broker, but brokers have played a major role and was very dominant in garnering a lot of volume.

我認為在每個週期中，總是會發生某些事情，在這個週期中，會發生大量此類事情。顯然，這些機構已經改變了對經紀人的態度。Meridian只是一個經紀商，但經紀商發揮了重要作用，並且在獲得大量交易量方面佔據了主導地位。

And then garnering on our volume, obviously, they control a lot of the source documents. And the industry has changed, many have already that if they are brokerage in between that are not direct with them, they can't control the source documents, so they've changed the guidelines. I think that was a long time coming.

然後從我們的數量來看，顯然，他們控制了很多來源文件。行業已經發生了變化，許多人已經意識到，如果他們是不直接與他們合作的經紀公司，他們就無法控制原始文件，所以他們改變了指導方針。我想那已經是很長一段時間了。

You have to understand that since 2010, basically, we've been on a tremendous run and a lot of deals have been hidden. This is the first time that there is a prolonged downturn. And now you can see some of the things that we've done in the industry that finally caught up. So I think that's going to be a healthy change that the lenders have to deal directly with the borrowers, and that's a very healthy change.

你必須明白，自 2010 年以來，基本上，我們一直在進行大規模的運營，並且隱藏了許多交易。這是首次出現長期低迷。現在您可以看到我們在行業中所做的一些事情最終迎頭趕上。因此，我認為貸款人必須直接與借款人打交道，這將是一個健康的變化，這是一個非常健康的變化。

Appraisers have always been a sore point within this industry, right? We rely so much on appraisals, I believe that, a big part of AI, and a big part of technology will have a significant impact on improving the valuation process. And appraisers are sometimes aligned, sometimes not aligned. It's like any other process that's human, within the human process, there are always areas of corruption.

評估師一直是這個行業的痛點吧？我們非常依賴評估，我相信，人工智慧的很大一部分，技術的很大一部分將對改善評估過程產生重大影響。評估師有時是一致的，有時是不一致的。就像任何其他人類流程一樣，在人類流程中，總是存在著腐敗的領域。

And I think it happened to them, not abnormal. It's part of life, everybody like this corruption. So they got hit with a little bit, not a lot, very small in relative to the overall thing. And I think when they find a bad actor, it's called to light, they eliminated that actor. But I think the whole appraisal process, which -- everybody is relied on valuations extensively. I think with technology, that's going to be a much better process going forward.

我認為這發生在他們身上，並不異常。這是生活的一部分，每個人都喜歡這種腐敗。所以他們受到的打擊是一點點，不是很多，相對於整體而言非常小。我認為當他們發現一個壞演員時，就會被曝光，他們就會淘汰那個演員。但我認為整個評估過程，每個人都廣泛依賴估值。我認為有了技術，這將是一個更好的過程。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Jay McCanless, Wedbush.

傑伊·麥卡利斯，韋德布希。

Hey. Good morning. Thanks for taking my question. Congrats again on [EAD] covering the dividend, but that spread continues to narrow. Could you maybe talk to us about how comfortable you are with the current dividend level and especially if economic conditions worsen from here?

嘿。早安.感謝您提出我的問題。再次恭喜 [EAD] 支付股息，但利差持續縮小。您能否與我們談談您對目前股息水準的滿意度，特別是如果經濟狀況從現在開始惡化？

Sure. Jay, it's Paul. Thank you for the question. I think it was clear in my prepared remarks that our spreads have come in, given the fact that we've got $1 billion of loans not paying. I think one of the things we really need to stress is that because our business model is so diversified and because we have so many different income streams, the agency business being one specific one.

當然。傑伊，是保羅。謝謝你的提問。我認為，在我準備好的發言中，我們已經明確表明，鑑於我們有 10 億美元的貸款未償還，我們的利差已經出現。我認為我們真正需要強調的一件事是，因為我們的業務模式如此多元化，而且我們有如此多不同的收入來源，代理業務就是其中之一。

Our SFR business being another that we continue to ramp up and get a 15% yield on our money. We have the ability to do things others don't, right? We're not afraid to take back an asset right, Ivan, I'm not afraid to work it through even if it means it's going to be non-interest earning for a little bit.

我們的 SFR 業務是我們繼續發展的另一項業務，並獲得 15% 的資金收益率。我們有能力做別人做不到的事情，對嗎？我們不害怕收回資產，伊万，我不害怕解決這個問題，即使這意味著它會成為一點非利息收入。

So I've guided you guys to a little bit of a low watermark in the third and fourth quarter. So it's possible our numbers in the third quarter and fourth quarter could approach that number or be slightly below it. It will depend on how successful we are in getting back interest and getting those loans back online.

所以我引導你們在第三和第四季達到了一點低水位。因此，我們第三季和第四季的數字可能會接近或略低於該數字。這將取決於我們在收回利息和將這些貸款重新上線方面是否成功。

But what also will affect it is the drop in the 10-year, right? If the drop in the 10-year continues and our agency business starts to explode, that will obviously offset any negative drag we have on non-performing loans. So it's a tough one. I'd say, it's getting tighter. It will continue to get tighter. It may then dip around there or below for a quarter or two, but we're not concerned because we know that we're going to take this $1 billion of assets and some good portion of it is going to turn into interest earning at some point. And on top of that, our agency business is going to continue to generate sizable returns.

但也會影響它的是 10 年的下降，對嗎？如果十年期的下降繼續下去，我們的代理業務開始爆發，這顯然會抵消我們對不良貸款的任何負面拖累。所以這是一項艱難的任務。我想說，越來越緊了。它將繼續變得更加緊張。然後它可能會下降到這個水平或低於這個水平一兩個季度，但我們並不擔心，因為我們知道我們將拿走這 10 億美元的資產，其中很大一部分將轉化為利息收入觀點。最重要的是，我們的代理業務將繼續產生可觀的回報。

And as Ivan said, we are working on a bunch of assets now that we think are going to pay off and we're going to take that capital on loans that were earning zero, and we're going to deploy it back into our system even at 10%, 12%, 13%, whatever it is we come up with on an unlevered basis, which will be accretive. So it will be a little bit of a timing issue in that, the third quarter and fourth quarter may get tight, and we've talked about that. But long-term, we're very, very comfortable with the protection.

正如伊万所說，我們現在正在開發一系列資產，我們認為這些資產將會得到回報，我們將把這些資本用於零收入的貸款，我們將把它重新部署到我們的系統中即使是10% 、12%、13%，無論是多少，我們都會在無槓桿的基礎上提出，這將是增值的。因此，這將是一個時間問題，第三和第四季度可能會變得緊張，我們已經討論過這一點。但從長遠來看，我們對這種保護感到非常非常滿意。

Okay. Great. Thanks for taking my question.

好的。偉大的。感謝您提出我的問題。

Crispin Love, Piper Sandler.

克里斯平·洛夫，派珀·桑德勒。

Thanks. Good morning. Appreciate, taking my question. Just asking the GSE question from earlier, just a little bit differently. Can you discuss recent activity with Freddie and Fannie because we did see Fannie originations come down meaningfully in the first quarter. But they bounced back nicely in the second quarter? So curious if there were any changes there on tightening standards in the first quarter versus the second quarter? And then just what you expect going forward from the agencies?

謝謝。早安.感謝，接受我的問題。只是問之前的 GSE 問題，只是有點不同。您能否與房地美和房利美討論最近的活動，因為我們確實看到房利美的起源在第一季有意義地下降。但他們在第二季度反彈得很好？很好奇第一季收緊標準與第二季相比是否有任何變化？那麼您對這些機構的未來有何期望呢？

I think it kind of mirrors a lot of the conversation we've had, and it's very much tied to interest rates. I think that the agency's volumes is going to increase considerably as rates drop. There are a lot of people who have been sitting on the sidelines waiting to refinance their loans when they got to a certain rate range. We're in prime time rate range today with today's drop, the rates that have dropped.

我認為這反映了我們進行的許多對話，並且與利率密切相關。我認為隨著利率的下降，該機構的交易量將會大幅增加。有很多人一直觀望，等待貸款達到一定利率範圍後再融資。今天我們正處於黃金時段利率範圍，今天的利率有所下降。

And I think the agency's volumes are going to really, really increased considerably. You have to also keep in mind that there hasn't been that much in multifamily sales activity, very, very low. I think that will pick up and I will see the agency's as well. So I think I'm very optimistic that the agency's volumes will really benefit off of this and will increase and will grow.

我認為該機構的數量將會真正、真正大幅增加。您還必須記住，多戶住宅的銷售活動並不多，非常非常低。我認為這種情況將會好轉，我也會看到該機構的情況。因此，我認為我非常樂觀地認為，該機構的業務量將真正從中受益，並將不斷增加。

And then we'll go back to the same old problem of all of the agency's are backed up and so taking longer. We're not that far away from that. We've experienced that. So I think that the agency is going to have a very, very, very strong period of time relative to the last couple of quarters.

然後我們將回到同樣的舊問題，所有機構的資料都備份，因此需要更長的時間。我們離這個目標並不遙遠。我們有過這樣的經驗。因此，我認為相對於過去幾個季度，該機構將經歷一段非常、非常、非常強勁的時期。

Yeah. And I think to add some color to that, Crispin, we did $360 million of volume in our agency business in July. So that number was actually just around the target we did for the second quarter. But we think, and as Ivan said, we think given the recent move in rates, some people are going to move off the dime here. And I think we're going to see an increase to that volume in August and September. That's our view.

是的。Crispin，我想為此增添一些色彩，我們 7 月份的代理商業務銷售額達到了 3.6 億美元。所以這個數字其實正好接近我們第二季的目標。但我們認為，正如伊凡所說，考慮到最近的利率變動，有些人會離開這裡。我認為我們將在八月和九月看到這一數量的增加。這是我們的觀點。

Great. Thank you. I appreciate the July number there as well. And then just one more for me. Can you just talk a little bit how you expect the first couple of rate cuts at the end of the year, assuming they do happen at the end of the year and into 2025 could impact you? And could it be a net negative to your net interest income over the near term in the structured business, but of course, benefit originations and agency, as you mentioned. Just curious on how you think about the impact there, especially in NII are doing lower yields, lower cost of funds, but I'm sure how much it would improve the borrower profile just with a couple of rate cuts? Thanks.

偉大的。謝謝。我也很欣賞七月的數字。然後再給我一個。您能否簡單談談您對年底前幾次降息的預期，假設它們確實發生在年底並持續到 2025 年，這會對您產生影響嗎？短期內，這可能會對您的結構化業務淨利息收入產生淨負面影響，但當然，正如您所提到的，福利來源和代理商。只是好奇你如何看待那裡的影響，特別是在NII中，收益率較低，資金成本較低，但我確信僅通過幾次降息就能在多大程度上改善借款人的狀況？謝謝。

I think we have to look at the rate cuts also in conjunction with what we've been talking about with the 5 and 10-year coming down. I think if there are rate cuts, two things will happen, it will put the book in a better position because people could buy rate caps cheaper. I also think there'll be more transaction activity and people will go with the floating rate loans on some of these underperforming assets. So I think our book of floating rate loans will increase as well.

我認為我們還必須結合我們一直在談論的 5 年期和 10 年期利率下降來考慮降息。我認為如果降息，將會發生兩件事，這將使這本書處於更好的位置，因為人們可以更便宜地購買利率上限。我還認為將會有更多的交易活動，人們將會對其中一些表現不佳的資產選擇浮動利率貸款。所以我認為我們的浮動利率貸款帳簿也會增加。

So I think there'll be more volume on that side. I think, offset some revenue drop. I think you'll see the Agency business pick up considerably. And I also think it will stimulate some of the modifications and bring some of those modifications more online and create life income producing opportunities on that side to offset some declines in revenue. I think net-net, the rate drops are beneficial for the company. That's the way I would look at it from my chair.

所以我認為這方面會有更多的成交量。我認為，抵消一些收入下降。我認為您會看到代理業務大幅成長。我還認為這將刺激一些修改，並使其中一些修改更加線上化，並在這方面創造生活創收機會，以抵消收入的一些下降。我認為，利率下降對公司有利。這就是我坐在椅子上看待它的方式。

Yeah. And I would say I agree with Ivan, the timing may be something that's hard to predict. You're right. If rates drop, your net interest income squeezes, but you've got $1 billion of loans not paying. Obviously, the health of the portfolio will increase with the rate drop and then your agency business will pick up, but it's just a matter of the timing, and that's the stuff that's hard to tell. May have a little bit of a dip in net interest income right away, and then it builds back up with your Agency's. But long-term, and as Ivan said globally, that's a positive for us.

是的。我想說我同意伊凡的觀點，時機可能很難預測。你說得對。如果利率下降，您的淨利息收入將受到擠壓，但您仍有 10 億美元的貸款未償還。顯然，投資組合的健康狀況會隨著利率下降而增加，然後您的代理業務將會好轉，但這只是時間問題，而這是很難說的事情。淨利息收入可能會立即略有下降，然後會隨著您的代理商的增加而回升。但從長遠來看，正如伊万在全球所說的那樣，這對我們來說是積極的。

Yeah. And I want to also point out what we've talked about for a long time on the calls that we put a big investment for our single-family, asset loan business and construction lending business. That's a business that funds up over time. We have these commitments, and those commitments in the equity deployed will go up, and that should be in mid to high-teens for time. So that will offset some of the runoff in the portfolio, and that was clearly by design on our part.

是的。我還想指出，我們長期以來一直在呼籲對單戶、資產貸款業務和建築貸款業務進行大量投資。這是一項隨著時間的推移而籌集資金的業務。我們有這些承諾，而且部署的股權中的這些承諾將會上升，並且在一段時間內應該會達到中雙位數。因此，這將抵消投資組合中的部分流失，這顯然是我們設計的。

Great. Thank you. Appreciate, taking my questions.

偉大的。謝謝。感謝，回答我的問題。

Lee Cooperman, Omega Family Office.

李庫柏曼，歐米茄家族辦公室。

I'm not a pint for you guys, but I just want to say I congratulate you on your performance. 1.5 years ago, you told me how negative you were about the environment, and you couldn't have been more right. I detect a real frustration on your part in the beginning part of this call and dealing with the shorts. These are unmerciful and in this case, uninformed people, basically.

我不喜歡你們，但我只想說我祝賀你們的表現。 1.5年前，你告訴我你對環境有多消極，你說得再對不過了。在這次通話的開始部分以及處理空頭問題時，我發現您確實感到沮喪。這些人是無情的，在這種情況下，基本上是無知的人。

And I just would tell you, [last, last best] and so you're performing. They don't understand the uniqueness of the company and how you position the company. And let me tell you, you've been very right, and I congratulate you and I thank you as a lot shareholder.

我只是想告訴你，[最後，最後最好]所以你正在表演。他們不了解公司的獨特性以及你如何定位公司。讓我告訴你，你說得很對，我祝賀你，也感謝你作為股東。

Let me ask your questions in have been more right to me about the environment. Do you think we're heading into a recession, number one? Number two, in terms of the book value, I mean I'm not on vacation, so I'm dialing in on a cell phone. What is our book value at the end of the quarter? And are you a buyer of your stock in the low -- in the [10, 11, 12] area?

讓我問你關於環境的問題對我來說比較適合。第一，你認為我們正在陷入衰退嗎？第二，就帳面價值而言，我的意思是我沒有在度假，所以我正在用手機撥打。本季末我們的帳面價值是多少？您是在 [10, 11, 12] 區域的低價位購買股票嗎？

Yeah. So you and I have had a lot of conversations over the last year or two and I have told you my view on unemployment and the economy. And obviously, I've been more right than wrong and my view towards the interest rates. And we're exactly where I said we'd be. And we're exactly where I said we'd be almost at the exact timing. And what I've said on the calls repeatedly, the first and second quarter being the most difficult. I got a good parameter for really the unemployment, more on the workforce type of people.

是的。所以你和我在過去一兩年裡進行了很多對話，我告訴了你我對失業和經濟的看法。顯然，我對利率的看法是對多於錯。我們正是我所說的地方。我們幾乎在準確的時間到達了我所說的地方。我在電話中多次說過，第一季和第二季是最困難的。我得到了一個很好的參數來衡量真正的失業情況，更多的是關於勞動力類型的人。

And I get a good read, and I do a lot of intel. So I think that the economy is both -- and I also get a good idea from building costs and trades and there's like a 20% differential in the period of post-COVID, people paying 10% to 20% premium to build their projects. Now they're getting a 10% discount. So you almost have a 20% to 30% differential from the peak in construction costs.

我讀了很多書，也了解了很多情報。所以我認為經濟是兩者兼而有之的——而且我還從建築成本和交易中得到了一個好主意，在後疫情時期，大約有20% 的差異，人們支付10% 到20% 的溢價來建造他們的項目。現在他們可以享受 10% 的折扣。因此，建築成本與高峰時期幾乎有 20% 到 30% 的差異。

People are hiring clues more recently and readily. Subcontractors are out there bidding and wanting jobs. So I think you've seen a tremendous change. So I think we are in a bit of a recession. And I think that you have another big factor here. You have the shadow unemployment being impacted by the 10-plus million immigrants who have been living in this country, and they're going to be starting to work. They're only letting about 10,000 or 20,000 at a month working. So that's a big impact on our employment. So I do think that we're in a period of time, we will be a little bit recessionary. And I think rates will remain in this range or short-term rates should come down, which is all good for our business.

人們最近更容易尋找線索。分包商正在競標並尋求工作。所以我認為你已經看到了巨大的變化。所以我認為我們正處於衰退之中。我認為這裡還有另一個重要因素。影子失業受到生活在這個國家的一千萬移民的影響，他們將開始工作。他們每月只讓大約 10,000 或 20,000 人工作。所以這對我們的就業影響很大。所以我確實認為我們正處於一段時期，我們會有點衰退。我認為利率將保持在這個範圍內，或者短期利率應該會下降，這對我們的業務都有好處。

And as far as Lee, it's Paul, our book value was [$12.46] at the end of 6/30. And to your question about buybacks, we certainly have around $140 million of capacity left in our buyback plan. And I will always assess where we think it's appropriate based on our capital and clearly at levels that you talked about, we'd like to be we'd be active because it'd be very accretive to -- on our book value and also to our earnings, right, Ivan?

至於 Lee，是 Paul，截至 6 月 30 日，我們的帳面價值為 [12.46 美元]。至於你關於回購的問題，我們的回購計畫中肯定還剩下約 1.4 億美元的產能。我將始終根據我們的資本來評估我們認為合適的地方，並且顯然在您談到的水平上，我們希望我們會積極行動，因為這會非常增加我們的賬面價值，而且我們的收入，對吧，伊万？

I know it's been very frustrating to you. The short guys are unmerciful. They come out with inaccurate accusations on a Friday afternoon when you're in your quiet period and you can't respond. And it's just terrible with the damage they're doing to the public shareholders. But we're all lucky to have you guys in our corner because you've done a terrific job, and I appreciate it. Thank you.

我知道這讓你非常沮喪。個子矮的人是無情的。他們在周五下午提出不準確的指控，當時你正處於安靜期，而你無法回應。他們對公眾股東造成的損害是可怕的。但我們很幸運有你們在我們身邊，因為你們做得非常出色，我很感激。謝謝。

Thank you, Lee. And as you know, we're in a heavily regulated environment, we run regulated. And we do get frustrated like our first and then we prepare very heavily for these earnings calls where it's not being in court. And as I said on my call, the numbers speak for themselves and the company's performance even in these very stressful times we are performing extraordinarily well.

謝謝你，李。如您所知，我們處於嚴格監管的環境中，我們的營運受到監管。我們確實像第一次一樣感到沮喪，然後我們為這些財報電話會議做了大量準備，但不是在法庭上。正如我在電話中所說，這些數字本身就說明了公司的業績，即使在壓力很大的時期，我們的表現也非常出色。

And when you compare us to our peers, it's not even the same well we've posted those charts to do a comparison. So we'll continue to work hard be it our and navigate these times and appreciate you as a shareholder and all our shareholders who have got a lot of confidence in us.

當你將我們與同行進行比較時，你會發現我們發布這些圖表進行比較的效果甚至都不一樣。因此，我們將繼續努力工作，度過這個時期，並感謝您作為股東以及所有對我們充滿信心的股東。

So thanks to you remarks, it’s very meaningful to us and to our management staff. We've been working extraordinarily hard just to get back to breakeven. As a entrepreneur, I always work to grow companies and it's not the most rewarding thing in the world to work to get back to breakeven. But life is life and that's part of our job. And we're working hard, and we've done a good job, and I think the quarter speaks for itself. And thank you again Lee, for your comments.

因此，感謝您的評論，這對我們和我們的管理人員來說非常有意義。我們一直在非常努力地工作，只是為了恢復收支平衡。身為一名企業家，我總是致力於發展公司，而努力恢復收支平衡並不是世界上最有價值的事情。但生活就是生活，這是我們工作的一部分。我們正在努力工作，而且我們做得很好，我認為這個季度是不言而喻的。再次感謝李的評論。

It's my pleasure they're well deserved. Congratulations.

我很高興他們當之無愧。恭喜。

Thanks, Lee.

謝謝，李。

This does conclude today's question-and-answer period. I will now turn the program back over to our presenters for any additional or closing remarks.

今天的問答環節到此結束。我現在將把節目交還給我們的主持人，以供補充或結束語。

All right. Thank you, everybody, for listening today and for the long call and for your patience and thank you for your participation in the call. Everybody, have a great weekend and enjoy the rest of the summer.

好的。感謝大家今天的收聽、漫長的通話、耐心等待，並感謝您參與通話。大家祝週末愉快，享受夏天剩下的時光。

This does conclude today's program. Thank you for your participation. You may disconnect at any time.

今天的節目到此結束。感謝您的參與。您可以隨時斷開連線。