Abacus Global Management Inc (ABL) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good day, ladies and gentlemen and thank you for standing by. At this time. All participants are in a listen-only mode later. You'll have the opportunity to ask questions during the question and answer session. You may register to ask a question over the phone by pressing the star and one on your telephone keypad. Please note this event is being recorded.

美好的一天，女士們先生們，謝謝你們的支持。此時。稍後所有參與者都處於僅監聽模式。您將有機會在問答環節提問。您可以按下電話鍵盤上的星號和一個來註冊透過電話提問。請注意此事件正在被記錄。

I'd now like to turn the call over to Robert F. Phillips Abacus Life, Senior Vice President of Investor Relations and Corporate Affairs. Please go ahead.

我現在想將電話轉給投資者關係和公司事務高級副總裁 Robert F. Phillips Abacus Life。請繼續。

Thank you operator and thank you everyone for joining Abacus Life's third quarter. 2024 earnings call here with me today are Jay Jackson Chairman & CEO, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer and Bill McCauley, Chief Financial Officer this afternoon at 4:15 p.m. Eastern time Abacus Life released its third quarter 2024 results. This afternoon's call will allow participants to ask questions about our results before we begin. Abacus Life refers participants on this call to the investor web page for the press release, the investor information and filings with the SEC for a discussion of the risks that can affect the business. Abacus Life specifically refers participants to the presentation furnished today on form 8K with the Securities and Exchange Commission. And to remind listeners that some of the comments today may contain forward-looking statements and as such will be subject to risks and uncertainties which if they materialize could materially affect results. For more information on the risks, uncertainties and assumptions relating to forward-looking statements. Please refer to Abacus Life public filings during the call. We will reference certain Non-GAAP financial measures. Although we believe these measures provide useful supplemental information about our financial performance. They are not recognized measures and do not have standardized meanings under us. Generally accepted accounting principles or GAAP. Please see our public filings for additional information regarding our Non-GAAP financial measures, including references to comparable GAAP measures.

感謝營運商，也感謝大家加入Abacus Life第三季。今天下午 4:15 與我一起參加 2024 年財報電話會議的是傑·傑克遜 (Jay Jackson) 董事長兼首席執行官、董事長兼首席執行官以及首席財務官比爾·麥考利 (Bill McCauley)。美國東部時間Abacus Life公佈了2024年第三季業績。今天下午的電話會議將允許參與者在我們開始之前詢問有關我們結果的問題。Abacus Life 建議本次電話會議的參與者造訪投資者網頁，以獲取新聞稿、投資者資訊以及向 SEC 提交的文件，以討論可能影響業務的風險。Abacus Life 特別建議參與者參閱今天向美國證券交易委員會提供的 8K 表格中的簡報。並提醒聽眾，今天的一些評論可能包含前瞻性陳述，因此將面臨風險和不確定性，如果這些風險和不確定性成為現實，可能會對結果產生重大影響。有關前瞻性陳述相關風險、不確定性和假設的詳細資訊。請參閱電話會議期間 Abacus Life 的公開文件。我們將參考某些非公認會計準則財務指標。儘管我們相信這些措施提供了有關我們財務表現的有用補充資訊。它們不是公認的措施，並且在我們看來沒有標準化的含義。普遍接受的會計原則或 GAAP。請參閱我們的公開文件，以了解有關我們的非 GAAP 財務指標的更多信息，包括可比較 GAAP 指標的參考。

And with that, I'd now like to turn the call over to Jay Jackson, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer.

現在，我想將電話轉給董事長兼執行長傑伊傑克森 (Jay Jackson)。

Thanks Rob and thank you to everyone joining us today for your interest in Abacus and welcome to our third quarter, 2024 earnings call after Bill and I conclude our prepared remarks. We'll open it up to your questions before I discuss our results for the quarter. I want to recognize the immense challenges faced by our communities here in Florida due to the recent Hurricanes. Our thoughts and prayers are with everyone affected.

感謝 Rob，感謝今天加入我們的所有人對 Abacus 的興趣，並歡迎在比爾和我結束我們準備好的發言後參加我們的 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。在討論我們本季的業績之前，我們將先回答大家的問題。我想認識到由於最近的颶風，佛羅裡達州的社區面臨著巨大的挑戰。我們的思念和祈禱與所有受影響的人同在。

We're thankful for all of the first responders who have been working tirelessly to assist and restore our communities. I also want to especially thank our team in Florida who worked tirelessly for Abacus and for our communities, even when they were personally impacted by the storms, I'm incredibly proud of our entire team.

我們感謝所有不懈努力協助和恢復我們社區的第一批回應人員。我還要特別感謝我們在佛羅裡達州的團隊，他們為 Abacus 和我們的社區不知疲倦地工作，即使他們個人受到風暴的影響，我也為我們整個團隊感到無比自豪。

Turning to our results.

轉向我們的結果。

We delivered another strong quarter of profitable growth while making significant progress with respect to our strategic initiatives. Further positioning abacus life as a leading market maker and alternative asset manager for the third quarter of 2024 we grew total revenue by 33% year over year to 28.1 million and recorded strong adjusted earnings growing adjusted EBITDA by 54% year over year to 16.7 million and generating a 65% year over year increase in adjusted net income to 14.9 million or $0.20 per diluted share bill will be along shortly to discuss our third quarter financial performance in further detail.

我們又實現了強勁的季度獲利成長，同時在策略舉措方面取得了重大進展。進一步將abacus life 定位為領先的做市商和另類資產管理公司，到2024 年第三季度，我們的總收入同比增長33% 至2810 萬美元，調整後盈利強勁，調整後EBITDA 同比增長54% 至1,670 萬美元，調整後淨利潤年增 65%，達到 1,490 萬美元，即稀釋後每股收益 0.20 美元，我們很快就會進一步詳細討論第三季的財務業績。

In addition to our exceptional quarterly financial results, we made substantial advances in our ABL tech program, announced key acquisitions and strengthened our executive bench and added a new partnership and product offering.

除了出色的季度財務業績之外，我們還在 ABL 技術計劃方面取得了實質進展，宣布了關鍵收購，加強了我們的高管隊伍，並增加了新的合作夥伴關係和產品供應。

First. I'm thrilled by the significant progress we've made in advancing our ABL tech initiative. Since we officially announced the program. Just eight months ago.

第一的。我對我們在推進 ABL 技術計劃方面取得的重大進展感到興奮。自從我們正式公佈了這個計劃。就在八個月前。

ABL tech went live with external clients in April and signed our first public pension client in June in August. This year, we also signed one of the largest union pension funds in the United States.

ABL tech 於 4 月與外部客戶上線，並於 8 月簽署了我們的第一個公共退休金客戶。今年，我們也簽署了美國最大的工會退休基金之一。

Our track record in winning RFPS has been outstanding and we are consistently outperforming the key incumbent vendors in the space out of the five RPFS, we have bid thus far. We won four of them and are awaiting notification on the remaining one. Assuming we win the final RFP, we expect to exceed 1 million lives tracked by the first quarter of 2025.

我們在贏得 RFPS 方面的記錄非常出色，並且在我們迄今為止投標的五個 RPFS 領域中，我們的表現始終優於主要的現有供應商。我們贏得了其中四項，正在等待剩餘一項的通知。假設我們贏得最終的 RFP，我們預計到 2025 年第一季追蹤的生命將超過 100 萬人。

ABL tax value proposition was fully validated in one of our RPS which received the highest overall score across all categories including data security, product performance, price and company evaluation. Showing off ABL Tech clear market leading differentiation.

ABL 稅務價值主張在我們的一項 RPS 中得到了充分驗證，該 RPS 在所有類別（包括資料安全、產品性能、價格和公司評估）中獲得了最高的總體得分。展示 ABL Tech 明顯的市場領先差異化。

As of October 31st ABL Tech serves 21 clients with 23 others either having provided firm commitments or in current negotiations. All of this across 23 states, we expect many if not all of those in our pipeline to be officially onboarded by the end of the first quarter of 2025 with contracts ranging from 3 to 5 years containing automatic renewals at the end of the initial term. Looking ahead, we also have more than 50 potential clients in our pipeline in various stages of discovery pricing and proposals heading into 2025 by leveraging decades of experience in proprietary health and longevity data sets. ABL tech creates bespoke solutions that deliver tremendous value to the pension fund and financial services industries. We expect ABL tech to become a significant driver of our top line growth over the long term in addition, during the third quarter, we announced two key acquisitions, Carlisle Management Company CA and FCF. Advisers Carlyle Management, a premier Luxembourg based investment manager in the Life Settlement Space and FCF advisors, an asset manager and index provider specializing in free cash flow focused investment strategies. Together will add approximately 2.6 billion in assets under management to our portfolio.

截至 10 月 31 日，ABL Tech 已為 21 家客戶提供服務，另外 23 家客戶已做出堅定承諾或正在進行談判。所有這一切都跨越 23 個州，我們預計我們的管道中的許多（如果不是全部）將在 2025 年第一季末正式入職，合約期限為 3 至 5 年，包含在初始期限結束時自動續約。展望未來，我們利用數十年在專有健康和長壽數據集方面的經驗，在 2025 年之前還有 50 多個潛在客戶處於發現定價和提案的各個階段。ABL 技術創建客製化解決方案，為退休基金和金融服務業帶來巨大價值。我們預計 ABL 技術將成為我們長期營收成長的重要推動力。顧問凱雷管理公司（Carlyle Management）是一家總部位於盧森堡的壽險結算領域首屈一指的投資管理公司；FCF 顧問公司是一家專門從事以自由現金流為重點的投資策略的資產管理公司和指數提供商。我們的投資組合管理資產總計將增加約 26 億美元。

We expect both deals to close by the end of the fourth quarter subject to regulatory approval.

我們預計這兩筆交易將在獲得監管部門批准後於第四季末完成。

We also significantly strengthened our senior management team with two key additions. First, we are thrilled to bring on board, Gaurav Kumar as managing Director of Capital Markets. Gaurav brings a wealth of financial services experience including over 15 years specifically in life settlements and managing life settlement investment funds at spearhead capital and launching similar funds at FDO partners, Gaurav deep industry knowledge and proven track record in business development and fund management will expand our capabilities in advancing our strategic goals.

我們也透過兩項關鍵補充顯著加強了我們的高階管理團隊。首先，我們很高興聘請 Gaurav Kumar 擔任資本市場董事總經理。Gaurav 帶來了豐富的金融服務經驗，包括超過15 年的經驗，特別是在人壽結算和管理先鋒資本的人壽結算投資基金以及在FDO 合作夥伴推出類似基金方面，Gaurav 深厚的行業知識和在業務開發和基金管理方面的良好記錄將擴大我們的業務發展和基金管理經驗。

In early October, we welcomed Robert F. Phillips as our new senior Vice President of investor relations and corporate affairs. Rob brings over 30 years of invaluable experience in capital markets and investor relations including leadership roles at NASDAQ where he served as a primary liaison to public company executives and board members, as well as significant experience in institutional trading brokerage and regulatory affairs at the NYSE Rob's expertise will be instrumental in strengthening our engagement with the investment in capital markets, communities, advancing our strategic business initiatives and supporting our growth objectives.

十月初，我們歡迎羅伯特‧菲利普斯 (Robert F. Phillips) 擔任我們新任投資者關係和公司事務資深副總裁。Rob 在資本市場和投資者關係方面擁有30 多年的寶貴經驗，包括在納斯達克擔任領導職務，擔任上市公司高管和董事會成員的主要聯絡人，以及在紐約證券交易所的機構交易經紀和監管事務方面的豐富經驗。

We also made excellent progress with new product initiatives in the quarter. Abacus partnered with Lorisco Life Launch PREADISAN a revolutionary health prediction and actuary technology tool. The innovative risk score combines blood based proteomic biomarker analysis with AI driven models to assess mortality risk offering personalization and longevity forecasting. By integrating the Lorisco cutting edge health prediction platform with advocates expertise and life settlements and actuarial technology. We will be able to provide highly tailored financial solutions for our clients while this program is still in beta testing. This partnership makes a significant advancement in the field of longevity based financial planning, enabling us to offer more accurate and personalized services that consider both traditional actuarial factors in modern proteomic markers on the capital front. Our balance sheet and liquidity position remains strong. We successfully deployed the 92 million in equity capital we raised at the end of the second quarter while maintaining a strong return on equity of 23% and return on invested capital of 21%. We are reviewing our capital options and as rates continue to become more attractive, we are considering additional debt financing and potentially other avenues for additional financing to take advantage of our strong market to purchase policies at very attractive returns and support our growth outlook.

本季我們在新產品計劃方面也取得了巨大進展。Abacus 與 Lorisco Life 合作推出了革命性的健康預測和精算技術工具 PREADISAN。創新的風險評分將基於血液的蛋白質組生物標記分析與人工智慧驅動的模型相結合，以評估死亡風險，提供個人化和壽命預測。透過將 Lorisco 尖端健康預測平台與倡導者的專業知識、生活結算和精算技術相結合。當該計劃仍處於測試階段時，我們將能夠為客戶提供高度客製化的金融解決方案。這種夥伴關係在基於長壽的財務規劃領域取得了重大進展，使我們能夠提供更準確和個性化的服務，同時考慮資本方面現代蛋白質組標記的傳統精算因素。我們的資產負債表和流動性狀況依然強勁。我們成功運用了第二季末籌集的 9,200 萬股本，同時維持了 23% 的強勁股本回報率和 21% 的投資資本回報率。我們正在審查我們的資本選擇，隨著利率繼續變得更具吸引力，我們正在考慮額外的債務融資和潛在的其他額外融資途徑，以利用我們強大的市場以非常有吸引力的回報購買保單並支持我們的成長前景。

Looking ahead, we are committed to sustaining our momentum and seizing the vast opportunities before us to drive long term profitable growth through constant thoughtful investments in product innovation and prudent execution. We continue to firmly solidify. Abacus is a pioneering global alternative asset manager and market maker.

展望未來，我們致力於保持發展勢頭，抓住擺在我們面前的巨大機遇，透過對產品創新的持續深思熟慮的投資和審慎的執行來推動長期盈利增長。我們繼續堅定鞏固。Abacus 是全球領先的另類資產管理公司和做市商。

With that, I'll now hand it over to our CFO Bill McCauley to discuss the specifics of our third quarter results and financials.

現在，我將把它交給我們的財務長比爾·麥考利（Bill McCauley），討論我們第三季業績和財務狀況的細節。

Thanks Jay and hello everyone. As Jay mentioned, we delivered another solid quarter of top line growth and profitability at Abacus.

謝謝傑伊，大家好。正如 Jay 所提到的，我們在 Abacus 實現了又一個穩健的季度營收成長和獲利能力。

The key driver of our business performance continues to be our highly efficient origination platform. While we continue to build our other verticals that will continue to our future earnings.

我們業務績效的關鍵驅動力仍然是我們高效率的創始平台。我們將繼續打造其他垂直產業，這將繼續為我們帶來未來的收益。

In the third quarter, 2024 capital deployed was 93.2 million compared to 56.4 million in the prior year period. While we grew policies purchased by 53% to 278 compared to 181 in the prior year period.

第三季度，2024 年部署的資本為 9,320 萬美元，而去年同期為 5,640 萬美元。我們購買的保單數量增加了 53%，達到 278 份，而去年同期為 181 份。

With our continued policy origination and capital deployment as of September 30th, 2024, Abacus holds 532 policies with a value of 274.4 million on the balance sheet.

截至 2024 年 9 月 30 日，Abacus 持續進行政策制定和資本部署，資產負債表上持有 532 份保單，價值 2.744 億美元。

Total revenue in the third quarter, 2024 grew by 33% to 28.1 million compared to 21.1 million in the prior year period. The increase was primarily due to higher active management revenue turning to expenses, total operating expenses excluding unrealized and realized gains and losses and the change in fair value of debt for the third quarter. 2024 were approximately 19.4 million compared to 13.2 million in the prior year period.

2024 年第三季總營收成長 33%，達到 2,810 萬美元，而去年同期為 2,110 萬美元。這一增長主要是由於主動管理收入轉為費用、不包括未實現和已實現損益的總營運費用以及第三季度債務公允價值的變化所致。 2024 年這一數字約為 1,940 萬，而去年同期為 1,320 萬。

The increase from the prior year period was due to higher investments in SG&A notably, we increased our total employee head count by 10% in the third quarter to support our growth initiatives through policy acquisition and active management and through increased marketing to support our growth profile, the company typically realizes the benefit of marketing spend within 90 to 120 days adjusted EBITDA for the quarter grew 54% to 16.7 million compared to 10.8 million in the prior year period adjusted even a margin grew to 59.2% for the quarter compared to 51.1% in the prior year period.

與去年同期相比的成長主要是由於對SG&A 的投資增加，特別是，我們在第三季度將員工總數增加了10%，以透過政策收購和主動管理以及透過增加行銷來支持我們的成長狀況來支持我們的成長計劃，該公司通常會在90 至120 天內實現行銷支出的收益，該季度調整後的EBITDA 增長54%，達到1670 萬，而上年同期調整後的EBITDA 為1080 萬，調整後本季度的利潤率也成長至59.2%，而上年同期為51.1%在上一年期間。

GAAP net loss attributable to stockholders for the quarter was 5.1 million compared to net income of 0.9 million in the prior year period, which is primarily driven by a non cash 8.7 million increase in warrant liability in the third quarter of 2024 compared to a non cash, 0.9 million increase in the prior year period on an adjusted basis excluding non cash stock compensation, business acquisition costs, amortization and change in fair value of warrant liability. Net income for the third quarter of 2024 grew by 65% to 14.9 million compared to 9 million in the prior year period.

本季 GAAP 股東應佔淨虧損為 510 萬美元，而上年同期淨利潤為 90 萬美元，這主要是由於 2024 年第三季度的非現金認股權證負債比非現金增加了 870 萬美元。經調整後較上年同期增加90 萬，不包括非現金股票補償、業務收購成本、攤銷及認股權證負債公允價值變動。2024 年第三季淨利成長 65%，達 1,490 萬美元，而上年同期為 900 萬美元。

Turning to our balance sheet metrics on an annualized basis for the three-month period ended September 30th, 2024, adjusted return on equity was 23% and adjusted return on invested capital was 21%. Both reflecting our highly profitable business model as of September 30th, 2024, the company had cash and cash equivalents of 19.4 million balance sheet policy assets of 274.4 million in outstanding long-term debt of 166.5 million.

轉向我們截至 2024 年 9 月 30 日的三個月期間的年化資產負債表指標，調整後股本回報率為 23%，調整後投資資本回報率為 21%。兩者都反映了我們截至2024 年9 月30 日的高盈利業務模式，該公司擁有現金和現金等價物1,940 萬美元，資產負債表上的保單資產為2.744 億美元，未償長期債務為1.665 億美元。

In summary, we are pleased with our robust performance this quarter and we continue to deliver double digit growth on our top line as well as solid profitability on adjusted basis. We remain very excited about the growth opportunities ahead and are well positioned to execute on our long term plans.

總而言之，我們對本季的強勁業績感到滿意，我們的營收持續實現兩位數成長，調整後的獲利能力也穩健。我們對未來的成長機會仍然感到非常興奮，並準備好執行我們的長期計劃。

I will now turn it back to our CEO Jay Jackson for our closing comments.

現在我將把它轉回給我們的首席執行官傑·傑克遜以供我們總結評論。

Thanks Bill. In conclusion, as we close out 2024 we remain very excited about the vast market opportunity in front of us and we are well positioned to capture and grow our market share in the space. Our journey towards becoming a global alternative asset manager is well on track and our extensive longevity data is creating new opportunities across various sectors, enhancing our growth prospects. We're committed to building on our two decade track record of financial success to deliver long term profitable growth.

謝謝比爾。總而言之，在 2024 年即將結束之際，我們仍然對擺在我們面前的巨大市場機會感到非常興奮，並且我們已做好充分準備來佔領並擴大我們在該領域的市場份額。我們成為全球另類資產管理公司的旅程正在順利進行，我們廣泛的長壽數據正在各個領域創造新的機會，並增強我們的成長前景。我們致力於在二十年的財務成功記錄的基礎上再接再厲，實現長期盈利增長。

Again, thank you all for joining us today and we appreciate your interest in abacus life with that. We look forward to your questions.

再次感謝大家今天加入我們，我們感謝你們對算盤生活的興趣。我們期待您的提問。

At this time. If you'd like to ask a question, please press the star and one on your telephone keypad. Keep in mind you may remove yourself from the question queue at any time by pressing star and two again, it's star and one to ask a question today, we'll take our first question from Crispin Love with Piper Sandler. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

此時。如果您想提問，請按電話鍵盤上的星號和一。請記住，您可以隨時再次按星號和二號將自己從問題隊列中刪除，今天是星號和一號提問，我們將從 Crispin Love 和 Piper Sandler 提出第一個問題。請繼續。您的線路已開通。

Thank you and good evening everyone. Just first off, Jay, can you just talk a little bit about trends in the fourth quarter so so far and then seasonality more broadly, I believe in the past, you've talked about originated face value and capital deployed being higher in the fourth quarter as people plan for the year ahead and meet with advisers, etcetera. So it first, is this true? And is this something that you've been seeing so far this year? Thank you.

謝謝大家，大家晚上好。首先，傑伊，您能簡單談談迄今為止第四季度的趨勢，然後更廣泛地談談季節性，我相信在過去，您談到了第四季度的原始面值和部署的資本更高人們計劃未來一年並與顧問會面等。那麼首先，這是真的嗎？今年到目前為止，這是您所看到的嗎？謝謝。

Hi, Chris. Thank you. And yes, we we've seen that trend continue. I, you know, for us you know, advocate has been in our industry for, you know, now over 20 years and, and historically, the fourth quarter from an origination point of view is i think at the policy level, the policyholders themselves are looking to potentially conclude this transaction to the year end. And so historically, we've had a stronger numbers in relationship to origination in the Q4, with that said, we also had a very strong Q3. And, and I think that, you know, that could also be another indication of just things to come. But we, you know, when you look at our origination of year over year, as much as we were, you know, I think that we're very bullish and certainly remain optimistic that we'll continue to see that origination trend continue in that direction. So, it's you know, Q4, it looks like it's shaping up to the same way that we've historically seen it.

嗨，克里斯。謝謝。是的，我們看到這種趨勢仍在繼續。我，你知道，對我們來說，倡導者已經在我們這個行業工作了 20 多年，從歷史上看，從起源的角度來看，第四季度是我認為在政策層面上，保單持有人本身希望在年底前完成這項交易。因此，從歷史上看，我們在第四季度的起源方面有更強的數字，也就是說，我們在第三季度也有一個非常強勁的數據。而且，我認為，這也可能是即將發生的事情的另一個跡象。但我們，你知道，當你逐年審視我們的起源時，你知道，我認為我們非常樂觀，並且肯定保持樂觀，我們將繼續看到起源趨勢在那個方向。所以，你知道，第四季度，它看起來就像我們歷史上看到的那樣。

Great. Thanks, that's helpful. And then Bill, can you just share what the originated face value in the third quarter was? I saw the capital deployed, but just looking for that originated face value number.

偉大的。謝謝，這很有幫助。然後比爾，你能分享一下第三季的原始面值是多少嗎？我看到資金已部署，但只是在尋找原始面值數字。

In the third quarter, it was 471.6 million.

第三季為4.716億。

Thank you.

謝謝。

You're welcome.

不客氣。

And as a reminder, if you'd like to ask a question today, please press the star and one keys. We'll take our next question from Andrew Kleman from TD Cohen. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

提醒一下，如果您今天想提問，請按星號鍵和一個鍵。我們將回答 TD Cohen 的 Andrew Kleman 提出的下一個問題。請繼續。您的線路已開通。

Hey, good evening. Nice to hear your voices. Maybe my first question is around the active management revenue. I mean, obviously very strong at 27 billion this quarter. How do you see that playing out over the next four quarters? Do, do you see that rising pretty material? Any color around that? Because you did deploy a lot of capital?

嘿，晚上好。很高興聽到你的聲音。也許我的第一個問題是關於主動式管理收入。我的意思是，本季的銷售額顯然非常強勁，達到 270 億美元。您如何看待未來四個季度的情況？你看到那漂亮的材料了嗎？周圍有什麼顏色嗎？因為你確實投入了很多資金？

Yeah, and Andrew, thank you for that question and great to hear from you as well. And I think, you know, there continues to be a significant demand in our industry to acquire these assets. And that was certainly true in Q3. And, we expect that trend to continue, you know, for the foreseeable future and part of that's driven by, you know, there's a couple of key things that are happening right now. And, you know, so there are some things from an investment point of view that that are certainly giving us some wind at our backs and, part of that is driven by, you know, we had a quarter point decrease in rates or lowering of rates announced today. And when you have lower cost of capital that in increases additional investment into an asset like ours, which traditionally has above market on correlated types of returns. And so for us, when we think about active management, what that means is is that we should continue to see that trend coming into 2025. So, you know, we're excited for our prospects right now. We think we're in credibly well positioned and it's really smart, intelligent time to be putting more capital to work. And, and so we had a successful Q3 in deploying that capital. And we're certainly, you know, looking at all options as we just stated as to what Q4 and Q1 look like in relationship to capital and active management. But, you know, things look very positive right now.

是的，安德魯，謝謝你提出這個問題，也很高興收到你的來信。我認為，您知道，我們的行業仍然對收購這些資產有巨大的需求。第三季確實如此。而且，我們預計這種趨勢將在可預見的未來繼續下去，部分原因是目前正在發生的一些關鍵事情。而且，你知道，從投資的角度來看，有些事情肯定會給我們帶來一些支持，其中部分原因是，你知道，我們的利率下降了四分之一個百分點，或者利率下降了今天公佈的利率。當你的資本成本較低時，就會增加對像我們這樣的資產的額外投資，而傳統上相關類型的報酬率高於市場水準。因此，對我們來說，當我們考慮主動式管理時，這意味著我們應該在 2025 年繼續看到這種趨勢。所以，你知道，我們現在對我們的前景感到興奮。我們認為我們處於非常有利的位置，現在正是投入更多資本的明智之舉。因此，我們在第三季成功部署了這筆資金。您知道，我們當然正在考慮所有選項，正如我們剛才所說的第四季度和第一季與資本和主動管理的關係。但是，你知道，現在情況看起來非常正面。

And then maybe talk about the much, much smaller revenue line items, portfolio, servicing and origination revenue. Those numbers were off a bit versus the year ago quarter. Could you give a little color around each and how you're feeling in both of those areas?

然後也許會談論小得多的收入項目、產品組合、服務和原創收入。這些數字與去年同期相比略有下降。您能否對每個方面進行一些說明以及您在這兩個方面的感受如何？

Sure, the servicing revenue for us might ebb and flow depending on how active we are with our own portfolio. And, even others. So as you have cash kind of enter in and out of anyone's portfolio where they're selling policies, that means that you're servicing revenue may be impacted up or down beyond that. you know, one of our clients on the servicing side has and effectively winding down some of their portfolio and we've been selling those into the market very successfully and that's had some impact to the servicing. But, you know, from our perspective, one of the things that we're very excited about on the servicing revenue line item is that as we continue, our process with Carlisle Asset management, we think that, you know, we'll see some significant servicing revenue continue to grow there as we continue to integrate that process.

當然，我們的服務收入可能會波動，這取決於我們對自己的投資組合的活躍程度。而且，甚至還有其他人。因此，當您有現金進出任何人銷售保單的投資組合時，這表示您的服務收入可能會受到超出此範圍的上下影響。你知道，我們服務方面的一位客戶已經有效地減少了他們的一些投資組合，我們已經非常成功地將這些產品賣給市場，這對服務產生了一些影響。但是，你知道，從我們的角度來看，我們對服務收入項目感到非常興奮的事情之一是，隨著我們繼續與卡萊爾資產管理公司合作，我們認為，你知道，我們會看到隨著我們持續整合此流程，一些重要的服務收入將持續成長。

Got it. And that closes at the end of the year. Right.

知道了。該項目將於年底結束。正確的。

Well, yeah, you know, I never say for sure one day or another. But, you know, we're anticipating to, we're still anticipating to see that as AQ foreclose.

嗯，是的，你知道，我從來不會有一天或另一天肯定地說。但是，你知道，我們預計，我們仍然預計看到 AQ 取消贖回權。

Got it.

知道了。

And then the origination revenue.

然後是原始收入。

Yeah. So the origination revenue is typically if we don't have initial capital or we don't want to hold that policy on our balance sheet, we might take that policy and then sell it directly to that investor. And there's a number of reasons why that might be, it might be size constraint. It doesn't mean that there's anything from a basis of the policy that we do or don't like, it just might be a more efficient transaction to then charge an origination fee and then sell directly to that third party investor. And so, you know, it makes sense that that origination fee would have come down as we're buying and holding more policies on our balance sheet. And then of course, selling them from our balance sheet versus, you know, trading them or rather than originating than them at for a origination fee directly to the third-party investors. So, you know, this is the trend you would expect as we deploy more capital off of our own balance sheet.

是的。因此，原始收入通常是，如果我們沒有初始資本或我們不想在資產負債表上保留該政策，我們可能會採取該政策，然後將其直接出售給該投資者。造成這種情況的原因有很多，可能是尺寸限制。這並不意味著我們喜歡或不喜歡政策的基礎，只是收取發起費然後直接出售給第三方投資者可能是更有效的交易。因此，您知道，隨著我們在資產負債表上購買並持有更多保單，發起費將會下降，這是有道理的。當然，從我們的資產負債表中出售它們，而不是直接將它們交易給第三方投資者，或直接向第三方投資者收取發起費。所以，你知道，隨著我們從自己的資產負債表中部署更多資本，這就是你所期望的趨勢。

Makes sense.

有道理。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Sure.

當然。

And we'll take our next question from Mike Grandall with Northland Securities. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

我們將回答 Northland Securities 的 Mike Grandall 提出的下一個問題。請繼續。您的線路已開通。

Hey, thank you guys. Any update on the competitive environment in J maybe, what are your top two priorities for 25?

嘿，謝謝你們。J 的競爭環境有什麼更新嗎？

Sure. We'll start with the, you know, some of our primary focus for 2025 and you know, number one is to continue to expand our education and awareness program through our marketing of our underlying asset and people having a greater understanding of what our industry presents. But in addition to that, what you saw was, you know, from the acquisition point of view, you know, groups that might be a little bit different than just outside of our industry. Things that what we would call like adjacent industries that we're taking a good close look at. So, you know, we want to continue to expand our current business and revenue model while horizon horizontally looking at those other sources of revenue, which would include things like whether that's through servicing valuation. You know, we're obviously excited about some of the things that we're starting to see in the ABL tech division in providing mortality verification services to, you know, pension funds.

當然。我們將從 2025 年的一些主要重點開始，第一要務是透過對我們的基礎資產進行行銷，讓人們對我們的行業有更深入的了解，繼續擴大我們的教育和意識計劃禮物。但除此之外，你看到的是，你知道，從收購的角度來看，你知道，這些群體可能與我們行業之外的群體略有不同。我們所說的類似相鄰行業，我們正在仔細研究。所以，你知道，我們希望繼續擴大我們目前的業務和收入模式，同時橫向審視其他收入來源，其中包括是否通過服務估值等。您知道，我們顯然對 ABL 技術部門開始看到的一些事情感到興奮，這些事情為退休基金提供死亡率驗證服務。

Can you talk little bit about what you've learned so far with the bank partner and how the new on demand product is going.

您能否談談到目前為止您與銀行合作夥伴所了解的情況以及新的按需產品的進展。

What was that Mike?

那個麥克是什麼？

I apologize. I think I missed part of that question.

我道歉。我想我錯過了這個問題的一部分。

Oh, the second part was just on the competitive environment.

噢，第二部分就是關於競爭環境。

Got it. And related to a competitive environment, I think that, you know, in our industry and others as you have success, it hopefully rises the tides of all in the industry. And, you know, as we're continuing to measure that, I think that, you know, the competitive landscape for our industry is that it's still a pretty tight industry and that gives us a lot of run room from where we stand. We're the only publicly traded company in our industry still today. And I think that gives us a significant advantage, not only in relationship to capital but also in how we're conveying our message directly to policyholders and other institutions. We're having a lot of success in sharing our story with other large origination, the distribution sources that we've talked about. So, you know, from where we sit, we feel really good about how well we're positioned for 2025 and going forward. And you know, we think that we'll still continue to have a competitive advantage because of that.

知道了。與競爭環境相關，我認為，你知道，在我們的行業和其他行業，當你取得成功時，它有望引發整個行業的潮流。而且，你知道，當我們繼續衡量這一點時，我認為，你知道，我們行業的競爭格局仍然是一個相當緊張的行業，這為我們提供了很大的運作空間。時至今日，我們仍然是業界唯一一家上市公司。我認為這給我們帶來了顯著的優勢，不僅在與資本的關係方面，而且在我們如何直接向保單持有人和其他機構傳達我們的訊息方面。我們在與其他大型組織、我們所討論的分發來源分享我們的故事方面取得了巨大的成功。所以，你知道，從我們的立場來看，我們對 2025 年及未來的定位感到非常滿意。你知道，我們認為我們仍將因此繼續擁有競爭優勢。

Great.

偉大的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Absolutely.

絕對地。

And there are no further questions on the line at this time. I'll return the program to Jak Jackson for any closing remarks.

目前線路上沒有其他問題。我會將節目回傳給傑克傑克遜，讓他發表結束語。

Terrific. Thank you everyone for taking time out of your evening. To dial and listen to our call. Hopefully a couple of your key takeaways is that, you know, one of the things that we're certainly very proud of is that we are continuing our growth, we are incredibly well positioned for coming in, not just in the short term, but also for the long term. And we expect those 10, those trends to continue as we deployed our capital when we started to look at things like, you know, our even a margin at almost 60%. Now, you know, in a quarter, like Q3, something that we're very proud of and you know, look forward to this continued growth. So as everyone comes into the holidays, we wish you the very best holidays and we look forward to speaking to you again in the new Year.

了不起。感謝大家晚上抽出時間。撥打並接聽我們的電話。希望您能得到的幾個關鍵要點是，您知道，我們確實非常自豪的一件事是我們正在繼續成長，我們已經做好了進入市場的非常有利的準備，不僅是在短期內，而且也是為了長期。當我們開始考慮諸如我們甚至接近 60% 的利潤率之類的事情時，我們預計這 10 個趨勢將繼續下去，因為我們部署了我們的資本。現在，你知道，在一個季度，例如第三季度，我們感到非常自豪，你知道，期待這種持續成長。因此，在每個人都進入假期之際，我們祝您假期愉快，並期待在新的一年裡再次與您交談。

This does conclude the Abacus Life earnings call. Thank you for your participation and you may now disconnect.

Abacus Life 財報電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與，您現在可以斷開連接。