Abacus Global Management Inc (ABL) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Greetings and welcome to Abacus Life second quarter '24 earnings call. (Operator Instructions) Please note, this conference is being recorded.

您好，歡迎參加 Abacus Life '24 年第二季財報電話會議。（操作員說明）請注意，本次會議正在錄製中。

I would now like to turn the conference over to Garrett Edson of ICR. Thank you. You may begin.

現在我想將會議交給 ICR 的 Garrett Edson。謝謝。你可以開始了。

Good day, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for standing by. Abacus Life, our first participants on this call to the Investor webpage www.abacuslife.com/investors for the press release, the investor information and filings with the SEC for a discussion of the risks that can affect the business.

美好的一天，女士們先生們。謝謝你的支持。Abacus Life 是本次電話會議的第一批參與者，請造訪投資者網頁 www.abacuslife.com/investors 獲取新聞稿、投資者資訊以及向 SEC 提交的文件，以討論可能影響業務的風險。

Abacus Life specifically refers participants to the presentation furnished today on Form 8-K with Securities Exchange Commission, and to remind listeners that some of the comments today may contain forward-looking statements, and as such will be subject to risks and uncertainties, which if they materialize can materially affect results. Reference is made to the section titled forward-looking statements in the company's earnings press release for the first quarter of 2024 which is incorporated herein by reference.

Abacus Life 特別建議參與者參閱今天向證券交易委員會提交的 8-K 表格中的演示文稿，並提醒聽眾，今天的一些評論可能包含前瞻性陳述，因此將面臨風險和不確定性，如果它們的實現會對結果產生重大影響。請參閱本公司 2024 年第一季財報新聞稿中標題為前瞻性陳述的部分，該部分透過引用併入本文。

We note, forward-looking statements, whether written or oral include, but are not limited to Abacus Life's expectation or prediction of financial and business performance and conditions as well as its competitive and industry outlook. Forward-looking statements are subject to risks, uncertainties and assumptions, including the risk factors set forth in item 1A of our most recent 10-K, which if they materialize could materially affect results and such forward-looking statements do not guarantee performance and Abacus Life gives no such assurances.

我們注意到，前瞻性陳述，無論是書面還是口頭，包括但不限於 Abacus Life 對財務和業務表現和狀況以及其競爭和行業前景的預期或預測。前瞻性陳述受到風險、不確定性和假設的影響，包括我們最近的10-K 第1A 項中列出的風險因素，如果這些風險因素成為現實，可能會對結果產生重大影響，並且此類前瞻性陳述並不保證績效和Abacus生活並沒有提供這樣的保證。

Abacus Life is under no obligation and expressly disclaims any obligation to update, alter or otherwise revise any forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events, or otherwise, except as required by law. In addition, historical data pertaining to the operating results and other performance indicators applicable to Abacus Life are not necessarily indicative of results to be achieved in succeeding periods.

Abacus Life 不承擔任何義務，並明確不承擔更新、更改或以其他方式修改任何前瞻性聲明的義務，無論是由於新資訊、未來事件或其他原因，除非法律要求。此外，有關經營績效的歷史數據和適用於Abacus Life的其他績效指標並不一定代表後續期間將取得的績效。

I will now turn the call over to Jay Jackson, Chief Executive Officer of Abacus Life.

我現在將把電話轉給 Abacus Life 執行長 Jay Jackson。

Thank you to everyone listening today for your interest in Abacus, and welcome to our 2024 second quarter earnings call. With me today is our Chief Financial Officer, Bill McCauley, and after our remarks, we'll open it up to your questions.

感謝今天收聽的大家對 Abacus 的興趣，並歡迎參加我們的 2024 年第二季財報電話會議。今天和我在一起的是我們的財務長比爾麥考利 (Bill McCauley)，在我們發言後，我們將回答大家的問題。

It was another quarter of excellent performance for Abacus Life, as we continue to successfully execute on our key strategic initiatives and further solidifying our position as a leading market maker and global alternative asset manager, which will have nearly $3 billion in assets under management post acquisitions.

這是 Abacus Life 另一個表現出色的季度，我們繼續成功執行我們的關鍵策略舉措，並進一步鞏固我們作為領先做市商和全球另類資產管理公司的地位，收購後管理的資產將接近 30 億美元。

For the second quarter of 2024, we more than doubled total revenue year over year to $29.1 million and recorded strong earnings, growing adjusted EBITDA by 83% year over year to $16.7 million and generating a 75% year-over-year increase in adjusted net income to $11.8 million or $0.18 per diluted share.

2024 年第二季度，我們的總營收年增 83%，達到 1,670 萬美元，調整後淨額年增 75%營收增至1,180 萬美元，即稀釋後每股收益0.18 美元。

Our second quarter performance underscores our thoughtful investments in marketing, which continue to yield excellent results by driving significant year-over-year increases in our direct-to-consumer originations.

我們第二季的業績突顯了我們在行銷方面的深思熟慮的投資，透過推動我們直接面向消費者的產品同比大幅增長，繼續取得優異的業績。

Meanwhile, the strength of our partnerships with carriers and reinsurers remains a key contributor to our strong performance in both revenue and adjusted EBITDA. Bill will be along shortly to discuss our second quarter financial performance in further detail. In addition to our exceptional quarterly financial results, we also made substantial progress with respect to our long-term strategy as we outlined during our Investor Day in June, along with our core business of acquiring life insurance policies, we are focused on expanding our complementary lifespan based financial products.

同時，我們與營運商和再保險公司的強大合作關係仍然是我們在收入和調整後 EBITDA 方面取得強勁表現的關鍵因素。比爾很快就會來進一步詳細討論我們第二季的財務表現。除了我們出色的季度財務業績外，我們還在六月投資者日概述的長期戰略方面取得了實質性進展，以及我們獲取人壽保險保單的核心業務，我們致力於擴大我們的互補性基於壽命的金融產品。

Since our last earnings call, we achieved several key strategic milestones. In a pivotal moment for our ABL Wealth division, subsequent to the quarter end, we announced a definitive agreement to acquire Carlisle Management Company, a premier Luxembourg based investment manager in the life settlement space, for approximately $200 million.

自上次財報電話會議以來，我們實現了幾個關鍵的策略里程碑。在季度末之後，在ABL Wealth 部門的關鍵時刻，我們宣布達成最終協議，以約2 億美元的價格收購卡萊爾管理公司(Carlisle Management Company)，該公司是一家總部位於盧森堡的壽險結算領域首屈一指的投資管理公司。

This acquisition will add approximately $2 billion in assets under management and is fully aligned with our strategy to become a global alternative asset manager. In addition to being a great culture fit, Carlisle further enhances Abacus's offering to institutional investors seeking attractive risk adjusted returns with low correlation to other asset classes.

此次收購將增加約 20 億美元的管理資產，完全符合我們成為全球另類資產管理公司的策略。除了非常適合文化之外，Carlisle 還進一步增強了 Abacus 向機構投資者提供的產品，這些投資者尋求有吸引力的風險調整回報，且與其他資產類別的相關性較低。

Carlisle has a most impressive and longstanding track record as a fund manager in the life settlement industry and is geographically diverse client base stands to significantly complement our efforts to become a global financial leader by incorporating Carlisle's expertise and robust portfolio into our offerings we are strategically positioning ABL Wealth at the heart of our mission to deliver sophisticated investment solutions for the life settlement market. This acquisition highlights our dedication to providing exceptional value and expanding our capabilities to serve a wider range of investor.

卡萊爾作為人壽結算行業的基金經理擁有令人印象深刻和長期的業績記錄，並且擁有多元化的客戶群，通過將卡萊爾的專業知識和強大的投資組合融入我們戰略定位的產品中，卡萊爾的專業知識和強大的投資組合將大大補充我們成為全球金融領導者的努力ABL Wealth 是我們為壽險結算市場提供先進投資解決方案的使命的核心。此次收購凸顯了我們致力於提供卓越價值並擴大我們為更廣泛的投資者服務的能力。

Along with Carlisle, last week we entered into an agreement to acquire FCF Advisors, a New York based asset manager and index provider specializing in free cash flow focused investment strategies. FCF Advisors has a suite of core and thematic free cash flow equity strategies and offers over 50 customizable free cash flow index strategies, covering eight global equities allocations. The deal will add approximately $600 million in assets under management and further accelerates the expansion of ABL Wealth with a diverse lifespan-based suite of products.

上週，我們與卡萊爾一起簽署了收購 FCF Advisors 的協議，FCF Advisors 是一家總部位於紐約的資產管理公司和指數提供商，專門從事以自由現金流為重點的投資策略。FCF Advisors 擁有一套核心和主題自由現金流股票策略，並提供 50 多種可自訂的自由現金流指數策略，涵蓋八種全球股票配置。此交易將增加約 6 億美元的管理資產，並透過基於生命週期的多元化產品套件進一步加速 ABL Wealth 的擴張。

In late June, we successfully closed an oversubscribed public offering of 11.5 million shares of common stock, including full exercise of the underwriter’s option, which further broadened our investor base and enhanced our liquidity position. Through this offering, we raised over $90 million in proceeds, which we have rapidly deployed into additional life settlement policies as well as advancing our overall business strategy.

6月下旬，我們成功完成了超額認購的1150萬股普通股公開發行，其中包括充分行使承銷商選擇權，進一步擴大了我們的投資者基礎並增強了我們的流動性狀況。透過此次發行，我們籌集了超過 9,000 萬美元的收益，我們已將其迅速部署到額外的人壽結算保單中，並推進我們的整體業務策略。

Finally, during the quarter, we established a national distribution relationship with Amcor, one of the largest national insurance marketing organizations in the United States. This partnership will leverage Amcor's extension network of over 40 broker general agencies to offer protection and retirement solutions to thousands of financial professionals, institutional clients and other distribution partners nationwide.

最後，在本季度，我們與美國最大的全國保險行銷組織之一 Amcor 建立了全國分銷關係。此次合作將利用 Amcor 由 40 多家經紀總代理機構組成的延伸網絡，為全國數千名金融專業人士、機構客戶和其他分銷合作夥伴提供保護和退休解決方案。

As a preferred partner for life settlement solutions, Abacus will provide its expertise to Amcor's affiliated member firms. This collaboration highlights our commitments to client-centric solutions and enhancing our ability to educate policy holders about the value of their policies and empowering them to make informed financial decisions.

作為人壽結算解決方案的首選合作夥伴，Abacus 將向 Amcor 的附屬成員公司提供其專業知識。此次合作凸顯了我們對以客戶為中心的解決方案的承諾，並增強了我們教育投保人了解其保單價值並幫助他們做出明智財務決策的能力。

All of our achievements over the past few months clearly underscore our relentless commitment to constant innovation through our wealth of longevity data and actuarial data and actuarial technology, offering an incredible value proposition for our clients in firmly solidifying Abacus as a pioneering global alternative asset manager and market maker.

我們在過去幾個月所取得的所有成就都清楚地強調了我們透過豐富的長壽數據、精算數據和精算技術對持續創新的不懈承諾，為我們的客戶提供令人難以置信的價值主張，堅定鞏固Abacus作為全球另類資產管理先驅的地位，做市商。

Looking ahead, we're incredibly excited to build upon our success and capitalize on the vast growth opportunities before us. By continuing to leverage our successful business model, exceptional team of experts and extensive proprietary data and technology, we are strategically positioned for sustainable and profitable growth, ensuring long-term value creation for our shareholders.

展望未來，我們非常高興能夠在我們的成功基礎上再接再厲，並利用擺在我們面前的巨大成長機會。透過持續利用我們成功的商業模式、卓越的專家團隊以及廣泛的專有數據和技術，我們在策略上定位於永續和獲利性成長，確保為股東創造長期價值。

With that, I'll now hand it over to our CFO, Bill McCauley to discuss the specifics of our second quarter results in financials.

現在，我將把它交給我們的財務長比爾麥考利 (Bill McCauley)，討論我們第二季財務表現的細節。

Thanks, Jay, and hello everyone. As Jay mentioned, we delivered another strong quarter of top line growth and profitability at Abacus. The key driver of our business performance continues to be our highly efficient origination platform, while we continue to build our other verticals that will contribute to our future earnings.

謝謝傑伊，大家好。正如 Jay 所提到的，我們在 Abacus 實現了又一個強勁的季度營收成長和獲利能力。我們業務績效的關鍵驅動力仍然是我們高效的創始平台，同時我們繼續建立其他垂直行業，這將為我們未來的收入做出貢獻。

In the second quarter of 2024, origination capital deployed was $104.7 million compared to $59.8 million in the prior year period. While we grew policies purchased 95% to 275% compared to 141% in the prior year period.

2024 年第二季度，部署的原始資本為 1.047 億美元，而去年同期為 5,980 萬美元。雖然我們的保單購買量從去年同期的 141% 增加了 95% 至 275%。

Total revenue in the second quarter 2024 more than doubled to $29.1 million compared to $11.4 million in the prior year period. The increase was primarily due to higher active management revenue.

2024 年第二季的總營收較去年同期的 1,140 萬美元成長了一倍多，達到 2,910 萬美元。這一增長主要是由於主動管理收入增加。

As of June 30, 2024, Abacus held 458 policies of which 452 are accounted for under the fair value method and six are accounted for using the investment method, which is cost plus premiums paid.

截至2024年6月30日，Abacus持有458份保單，其中452份採用公允價值法核算，6份採用投資法（即成本加已付保費）核算。

As a reminder for all policies purchased after June 30, 2023, the company has elected to account for these under the fair value method going forward. For policies purchased before June 30, 2023, the company elected to use the fair value method or the investment method.

提醒大家，對於 2023 年 6 月 30 日之後購買的所有保單，公司選擇在未來採用公允價值法對其進行會計處理。對於2023年6月30日之前購買的保單，公司選擇採用公允價值法或投資法。

Turning to expenses, total operating expenses excluding unrealized and realized gains and losses in the change in fair value of debt for the second quarter 2024 were approximately $18.9 million compared to $1.3 million in the prior year period.

說到費用，2024 年第二季的總營運費用（不包括未實現和已實現的債務公允價值變動損益）約為 1,890 萬美元，而去年同期為 130 萬美元。

We would note that second quarter 2024 total operating expenses included $6.2 million of non-cash stock compensation expense, and $0.8 million of public company related expenses, both of which did not occur in the prior year period. Beginning in the third quarter, we will anniversary these non-cash equity compensation and public company expenses.

我們注意到，2024 年第二季的總營運費用包括 620 萬美元的非現金股票補償費用和 80 萬美元的上市公司相關費用，這兩項費用在上一年期間都沒有發生。從第三季開始，我們將紀念這些非現金股權補償和上市公司費用。

We also increased sales and marketing expenses by approximately $1.9 million compared to the prior year period, which assisted in accelerating our growth profile. The company typically realizes the benefit of marketing spend within 90 to 120 days.

與去年同期相比，我們的銷售和行銷費用還增加了約 190 萬美元，這有助於加速我們的成長。公司通常會在 90 至 120 天內實現行銷支出的效益。

Adjusted EBITDA for the quarter grew 83% to $16.7 million compared to $9.1 million in the prior year period. Adjusted EBITDA margin was 57.5% for the quarter compared to 80.4% in the prior year period. GAAP net income attributable to stockholders for the quarter was $0.8 million compared to $6.8 million in the prior year period.

本季調整後 EBITDA 成長 83%，達到 1,670 萬美元，去年同期為 910 萬美元。本季調整後 EBITDA 利潤率為 57.5%，而去年同期為 80.4%。本季 GAAP 股東應佔淨利為 80 萬美元，而去年同期為 680 萬美元。

On an adjusted basis, excluding non-cash stock compensation, business acquisition costs, amortization, and change in fair value of warrant liability, net income for the second quarter of 2024 grew 75% to $11.8 million compared to $6.8 million in the prior year period.

調整後，不包括非現金股票補償、業務收購成本、攤提和認股權證負債公允價值變化，2024 年第二季淨利成長 75%，達到 1,180 萬美元，而去年同期為 680 萬美元。

Now turning to our balance sheet metrics. On an annualized basis, adjusted return on equity and adjusted return on invested capital for the three-month period ended June 30, 2024, were both 18%, reflecting our highly profitable business model. As of June 30, 2024, the company had cash and cash equivalents of $91.3 million, balance sheet policy assets of $208.7 million and outstanding long-term debt of $151.3 million.

現在轉向我們的資產負債表指標。以年化計算，截至2024年6月30日的三個月期間調整後股本回報率和調整後投資資本回報率均為18%，反映了我們高利潤的業務模式。截至2024年6月30日，該公司擁有現金及現金等價物為9,130​​萬美元，資產負債表保單資產為2.087億美元，未償長期債務為1.513億美元。

In summary, we are pleased with our strong results delivering triple-digit growth on our top-line as well as solid profitability on an adjusted basis. We remain very excited about the growth opportunities ahead and are well-positioned to execute on our long-term plans.

總而言之，我們對我們的強勁業績感到滿意，我們的營收實現了三位數的成長，並且調整後的獲利能力也很穩固。我們對未來的成長機會仍然感到非常興奮，並準備好執行我們的長期計劃。

I will now turn it back to our CEO, Jay Jackson, for our closing comments.

現在我將把它轉回給我們的執行長傑·傑克遜，以供我們發表結束語。

Thanks, Bill. To sum up, we remain well-positioned to continue utilizing our deep expertise within the life planning space to further capitalize on a massive market opportunity. We are making steady progress on the path to becoming a global alternative asset manager, while our incredible wealth of longevity data is opening up many new doors into several new verticals, which should further charge our growth capabilities. And we will continue to do this, while ensuring that we sustain and grow our profitability just as we've done over the last 20 years.

謝謝，比爾。總而言之，我們仍然處於有利地位，可以繼續利用我們在人生規劃領域的深厚專業知識，進一步利用巨大的市場機會。我們正在成為全球另類資產管理公司的道路上穩步前進，而我們令人難以置信的豐富的長壽數據正在為幾個新的垂直領域打開許多新的大門，這將進一步增強我們的成長能力。我們將繼續這樣做，同時確保我們維持和提高我們的獲利能力，就像我們在過去 20 年所做的那樣。

I'd like to thank you all for joining us today, and we appreciate your interest in Abacus Life. We will now field any questions.

我要感謝大家今天加入我們，我們感謝你們對 Abacus Life 的興趣。我們現在將回答任何問題。

(Operator Instructions) Crispin Love, Piper Sandler.

（操作說明）Crispin Love，Piper Sandler。

First, can you just talk a little bit about deployment and capacity? You've raised $90 million-plus in June, clearly put some of that to work pretty quickly based on the results. So can you just discuss, when you expect to deploy that full amount and then capacity for deployment and opportunities going forward, as you look to the back half of the year and into 2025?

首先，您能簡單談談部署和容量嗎？你們在 6 月籌集了超過 9,000 萬美元，顯然根據結果，其中一些很快就能發揮作用。那麼，當您展望今年下半年和 2025 年時，您能否討論一下您預計何時全額部署，以及部署能力和未來的機會？

When we thought about this, when we were even managing the follow-on investment when we talked about the deployment of that capital was to make things both sustainable and profitable over time. And we're in a very, I think exciting period for our industry in a sense that the broadening of the message has really certainly increased policy flow for us and thus, the deployment of capital we absolutely were able to -- we had some pent-up inventory and we're able to put some of that capital to work right away even before Q2 even though we closed on the follow-on, June 20.

當我們思考這一點時，當我們甚至在管理後續投資時，當我們談論資本的部署時，是為了讓事情隨著時間的推移變得可持續和有利可圖。我認為我們的行業正處於一個非常激動人心的時期，從某種意義上說，資訊的擴大確實增加了我們的政策流量，因此，我們絕對能夠部署資本——我們有一些被壓抑的資本。庫存，即使我們在6 月20 日關閉了後續業務，我們也能夠在第二季之前立即投入部分資金。

So even in that short amount of time, we were able to get that capital deployed. I think, we had spoken prior (technical difficulty) specifically, we expect to have a majority of that capital deployed before year end, probably sooner than that. It could be as early as Q3, which is exciting, right? That's what we wanted to do, get that capital deployed, get that ROE to work for all of our shareholders and investors.

因此，即使在這麼短的時間內，我們也能夠部署資金。我認為，我們之前已經具體談到過（技術難度），我們預計在年底之前部署大部分資本，可能比那更早。最早可能會在第三季度，這很令人興奮，對吧？這就是我們想要做的，部署資本，讓股本回報率為我們所有的股東和投資者服務。

And the opportunity only continues to grow through this year and really through next year as well. We think it's also, even when you think about rates and you think about the markets themselves, this is really a market that's designed for us, whether that's volatile or different types of volatility or whether it's different types of interest rates. We think that this is a great market for us.

而且這個機會只會在今年和明年繼續成長。我們認為，即使你考慮利率和市場本身，這確實是一個為我們設計的市場，無論是波動性還是不同類型的波動性，或者是否是不同類型的利率。我們認為這對我們來說是一個很好的市場。

And then just another one on adjusted EBITDA. You've generated about $28 million in the first half of the year. Can you just talk a little bit about expectations for the full year? As I kind of look at my model, just simplistically doubling that gets you to $56 million, but you did add the capital also took advantage of some opportunities late in the second quarter, which might not recur. So just I'm curious on how we should look at the cadence of EBITDA for the second half of the year.

然後是調整後 EBITDA 的另一項。今年上半年您的收入約為 2800 萬美元。能簡單談談對全年的期望嗎？當我查看我的模型時，只需簡單地加倍即可獲得 5600 萬美元，但您確實添加了資本，也利用了第二季度末的一些機會，這可能不會再次出現。所以我很好奇我們應該如何看待下半年 EBITDA 的節奏。

Yes, I think the cadence of the EBITDA (technical difficulty) additional capital, so when we look at Q3, Q4, the way that we're looking at this is, is that yes, we had a phenomenal Q2, we want to manage expectations in Q3, Q4, I think, the numbers that you have put forth and other analysts, we think that we're tying out to those and everything looks very positive.

是的，我認為EBITDA（技術難度）額外資本的節奏，所以當我們看第三季度、第四季度時，我們看待這個問題的方式是，是的，我們有一個驚人的第二季度，我們想要管理我認為，第三季、第四季的預期，以及您和其他分析師提出的數字，我們認為我們正在兌現這些預期，一切看起來都非常積極。

Obviously, you can't predict everything that's going to happen in the future but based upon the capital raise and based upon, like I said, the sustainability and profitability of the current business we feel very good about the numbers throughout the end of the year.

顯然，你無法預測未來會發生的一切，但基於融資情況，以及基於（就像我說的）當前業務的可持續性和盈利能力，我們對整個年底的數字感到非常滿意。

And then just one very quick one for housekeeping model, can you share what originated face value was in the quarter?

然後是一個非常快速的管家模型，您能分享本季的原始面值是多少嗎？

Yeah, total originated face value in the quarter. I know Bill has that number that exact number, which will get to you. One of the things that we did do Crispin that I just want to highlight is that when we think about origination, it can come in one of two areas. It can come direct from the policy holder but there can also be opportunities where we see other asset managers that are winding down their funds and they want to potentially, opportunistically sell the remaining other assets so that they can return their capital back to their shareholders. And so, we have been able to take advantage of that as well. And so, when we look at discount rates on a go forward (technical difficulty).

是的，本季的總面額。我知道比爾有那個號碼，確切的號碼，這會找到你的。我想強調的是，我們在 Crispin 所做的一件事是，當我們考慮起源時，它可以來自兩個領域之一。它可以直接來自保單持有人，但也有可能我們看到其他資產管理公司正在縮減其資金，他們希望機會主義地出售剩餘的其他資產，以便將資本返還給股東。因此，我們也能夠利用這一點。因此，當我們考慮未來的折扣率時（技術難度）。

Excuse me, Mr. Jackson, we are having a little trouble with your line. It keeps cutting out a little bit.

對不起，傑克森先生，您的線有點問題。它一直在削減一點點。

I don't know about that. Bill if you wouldn't mind jumping on and just giving him the actual number and then we can kind of tie out the rest of that.

我對此一無所知。比爾，如果你不介意直接告訴他實際的數字，然後我們就可以把剩下的事情連結起來。

Yes, sure. So total originated face value for the quarter was $447 million. And what Jay was mentioning is that -- before he cut out, is that we had opportunities to buy policies outside of just our origination platform. And that's what also contributed to the high volume in the quarter.

是的，當然。因此，本季的總面值為 4.47 億美元。傑伊在中斷之前提到的是，我們有機會在我們的發起平台之外購買保單。這也是導致本季銷量高的原因。

(Operator Instructions) Andrew Kligerman, TD Securities.

（操作員指示）Andrew Kligerman，道明證券。

My first question is around active management and the revenue that came in. I mean more than doubled. It's a big number at $27 million, a little more than we had anticipated. Could you help frame just sort of -- is this sort of a base number now, how do you see that trending over the next year or two?

我的第一個問題是關於主動管理和收入。我的意思是增加了一倍以上。2700 萬美元是一個很大的數字，比我們預期的要多一點。您能否幫忙框架一下—現在這是一個基數嗎？

Yes. I don't know if my sound was repaired or not. Is that any better?

是的。不知道我的聲音有沒有修好。這樣好點了嗎？

That's sound good Jay.

聽起來不錯，傑伊。

I think that when we look at Q2, this is about being able to put some of the capital to work that we were able to expand from our follow on investments. The way that I look at this is that you this is sustainable and profitable and we are in one key indicator there is, when you look at the return on equity, we didn't see a fall off on ROE. However, we also still have a significant higher cash balance sheet that we're putting money to work here in Q3 as well.

我認為，當我們看第二季時，這是為了能夠將一些資本投入使用，我們能夠從後續投資中擴大這些資本。我看待這個問題的方式是，這是可持續且有利可圖的，我們處於一個關鍵指標中，當你查看股本回報率時，我們沒有看到股本回報率下降。然而，我們的現金資產負債表仍然顯著增加，我們也在第三季投入資金。

So this is the type of business that when we look at discount rates and the opportunities that we have to buy, let's say policies it's incredibly accretive for us right now. And so without pull -- trying to pull out the crystal ball and go too far out in advance, I think the way that I would look at it is that from a modeling perspective and the way that we see this through the end of the year, I would expect us to maintain a lot of the things that -- a lot of the modeling numbers that you had laid out.

因此，當我們考慮折扣率和我們必須購買的機會（比如說政策）時，這種業務現在對我們來說是令人難以置信的增值。因此，如果沒有拉力——試圖拉出水晶球並提前走得太遠，我認為我看待它的方式是從建模的角度以及我們在今年年底看到這一點的方式，我希望我們能夠維護很多東西——很多你已經列出的建模數字。

And then with respect to M&A, two really nice acquisitions in Carlisle is being more of a pure play life settlements and then FCF, which is a little more diverse. So, as we kind of look forward Jay, what are you thinking about M&As and will they be more along the lines of FCF or are there more Carlisle type deals out there?

然後就併購而言，卡萊爾的兩項非常好的收購更多的是純粹的遊戲生活定居點，然後是更多樣化的 FCF。那麼，當我們期待傑伊時，您對併購有何看法？

I think that Carlisle was a special opportunity for us. We had known them for so long, 15-plus year track record. I don't think there's a lot of companies like Carlisle out there. I think from our focus is let's look at that business that has $2 billion in assets under management, primarily from offshore investors, and continue to grow and expand that brand. And FCF is the same in the sense that FCF has got a great track record.

我認為卡萊爾對我們來說是一個特別的機會。我們認識他們已經有 15 年多的歷史了。我認為像卡萊爾這樣的公司並不多。我認為我們的重點是專注於管理 20 億美元資產（主要來自海外投資者）的業務，並繼續發展和擴大該品牌。FCF 也是如此，因為 FCF 擁有良好的業績記錄。

We want to expand the idea of providing ETF models specifically related to someone's lifespan. So from our perspective, the way that we look at M&A is let's make sure that we're integrating successfully the companies that we've been able to acquire and drive profitability there. Because I think that we've got best in class in both of those businesses right now. (technical difficulty).

我們希望擴展提供與某人壽命特別相關的 ETF 模型的想法。因此，從我們的角度來看，我們看待併購的方式是確保我們成功整合了我們能夠收購的公司並提高了獲利能力。因為我認為我們現在在這兩項業務中都處於領先地位。（技術難度）。

Jay, you have cut out again. Bill, could you maybe take up while I fix Jay’s line?

傑伊，你又斷線了。比爾，我修傑伊的線路時你可以接聽嗎？

Yeah, absolutely. Andrew, we will continue to be opportunistic with regards to M&A. as Jay mentioned, Carlisle was a pure life settlement play in our industry, made sense from an asset management side. FCF is a great fit for ABL Wealth model. And as we look to build out ABL Wealth providing financial advice based on longevity, we think that's a great fit and we'll continue to be strategic on the M&A side going forward.

是的，絕對是。安德魯，我們將繼續在併購方面保持機會主義。正如傑伊所提到的，卡萊爾是我們行業中純粹的人壽結算公司，從資產管理方面來看是有意義的。FCF 非常適合 ABL 財富模式。當我們希望建立 ABL Wealth 以提供基於長壽的財務建議時，我們認為這是一個非常合適的選擇，我們將繼續在併購方面保持策略性發展。

And one last one on the Abacus Tech front, I know you've outlined in the past that potential clients would be governments, insurance companies, pensions. It seems like pensions would be the big area and maybe you could touch on progress to date if you've had any wins and kind of where you see that going.

關於 Abacus 技術的最後一項，我知道您過去曾概述過，潛在客戶將是政府、保險公司、退休金。看來退休金將是一個大領域，如果你取得了任何勝利，也許你可以談談迄今為止的進展，以及你看到的進展。

Okay. We are still having trouble with Jay's line. I'm trying to get connected in.

好的。傑伊的線路我們仍然遇到問題。我正在嘗試連接。

I can take that one. So ABL Tech continues to grow. I mean, we're adding on new clients here now that we've deployed the service. And so, we continue to see that as a growth opportunity for fee recurring earnings. So that is going as planned to date.

我可以接受那個。因此，ABL Tech 不斷發展。我的意思是，既然我們已經部署了該服務，我們就在這裡新增客戶端。因此，我們繼續認為這是費用經常性收益的成長機會。到目前為止，一切都按計劃進行。

Matthew Howlett, B. Riley Securities.

馬修‧豪利特 (Matthew Howlett)，B. 萊利證券 (Riley Securities)。

Terrific results. I mean, I want to talk about the margins here. It just beat us and impressed again. What are you seeing out there on the acquisition front? And was there anything particular this quarter? Did you buy bigger policies? Was there a certain channel that was better than the others? Just give me, what you're seeing out there in terms of margins and pricing?

非常棒的結果。我的意思是，我想談談這裡的利潤。它再次擊敗了我們並給我們留下了深刻的印象。您在收購方面看到了什麼？本季有什麼特別的事情嗎？你買了更大的保單嗎？是否有某個管道比其他管道更好？請告訴我，您在利潤和定價方面看到了什麼？

Hopefully, you all can hear me better now. The EBITDA margin went up and we are seeing really interesting opportunities and I kind of highlighted the two areas, where we're being able to acquire directly from policyholders as well as institutionally. And I think on an institutional basis, where we're able to acquire some very strategic opportunities related to other portfolios, we definitely saw some of that in Q2.

希望你們現在能更好地聽到我的聲音。EBITDA 利潤率上升，我們看到了非常有趣的機會，我強調了這兩個領域，我們能夠直接從保單持有人以及機構獲得資金。我認為在機構基礎上，我們能夠獲得一些與其他投資組合相關的非常具有戰略意義的機會，我們肯定在第二季度看到了其中的一些機會。

Historically, we haven't seen as much opportunity there as we're seeing today as some funds are starting to wind down some of their strategies and they can't sell into the next one.

從歷史上看，我們並沒有看到像今天這樣多的機會，因為一些基金開始逐步減少某些策略，並且無法出售下一個策略。

On a go forward basis, we think that that's going to continue to be a strategy that we want to expand in addition to our regular origination, which is directly to the policyholder. And I would also just add too, when you add more origination, which is what we've done, we have focused specifically on educating consumers, educating financial advisors, broadening our origination from large financial firms. When you do that, you're able to get a broader set of policies to purchase at much better rates.

展望未來，我們認為，除了直接面向保單持有人的常規發起之外，這將繼續成為我們想要擴展的策略。我還想補充一點，當你增加更多的起源時，這就是我們所做的，我們特別關注教育消費者、教育財務顧問、擴大我們從大型金融公司的起源。當您這樣做時，您可以獲得更廣泛的政策，以更好的價格購買。

And in terms of just the general market, I mean would that with your direct program? I realize you can go to these institutions and get low hanging fruit when it's available, but the market size, the share size you have obviously, is it still as big as, as you thought it was going to be?

就一般市場而言，我的意思是您的直接計劃會如此嗎？我知道你可以去這些機構並在可用時獲得唾手可得的成果，但是市場規模，你顯然擁有的股票規模，它仍然像你想像的那樣大嗎？

It is. And I would argue, it's even bigger, right? Like, we have pent up demand and there's specific segments of the market that we are absolutely thrilled about opportunistically, where I think as more and more people are starting to really utilize this asset, as something for their estate plan, I think that, that's creating a significant amount of opportunity.

這是。我會爭辯說，它更大，對吧？就像，我們已經壓抑了需求，而且市場上的某些特定領域我們對機會主義絕對感到興奮，我認為隨著越來越多的人開始真正利用這項資產，作為他們的遺產計劃的一部分，我認為，那就是創造大量機會。

So for us, Matt, we see this continuing. I mean, this is the type of opportunity that from a profit margin and a discount rate perspective, we haven't seen in years. And we should be putting more and more capital to work where the opportunities lie.

所以對我們來說，馬特，我們看到這種情況仍在繼續。我的意思是，從利潤率和折現率的角度來看，這是我們多年來從未見過的機會。我們應該將越來越多的資本投入到有機會的地方。

It's incredible. And you're putting us in more marketing dollars to work and we'll see the impact of that. Like you said, it's a sort of some lead time before you see more of that coming through that channel. That look, that's perfect. I mean, it's amazing how quickly you put that capital to work from the raise. On the buyback -- insurance buyback, did it seem if there's any contribution this quarter, did I see it right or is that just 1B every quarter to quarter?

太不可思議了。您為我們投入了更多的行銷資金，我們將看到其影響。就像你說的，在你看到更多的東西透過該管道到來之前，需要一段時間。這眼神，簡直完美啊我的意思是，令人驚訝的是，你能如此迅速地將加薪資金投入使用。關於回購——保險回購，這個季度是否有任何貢獻，我認為是對的還是每季只有 1B？

Yes. When you look at the buyback perspective sometimes it's lumpy in a sense that it just depends on when transactions close, like they're not as -- they're not always at the last few days of the month or the week. Sometimes you're building up inventory to better structure those. And I like to point out is that even with or without that buyback in place, we still had just a really strong quarter.

是的。當你從回購的角度來看時，有時它是不穩定的，因為它只取決於交易何時結束，就像它們並不總是在本月或一周的最後幾天一樣。有時，您會建立庫存以更好地建立這些庫存。我想指出的是，無論有沒有回購，我們仍然有一個非常強勁的季度。

And I think that's the consistency that you're looking for is that yes, absolutely. Working with the life insurance companies and potentially reinsurers is a great opportunity, but we still have a phenomenal underlying business that generates great returns. And as that business continues to grow that will just grow on top of this.

我認為這就是您所尋求的一致性，是的，絕對如此。與人壽保險公司和潛在的再保險公司合作是一個很好的機會，但我們仍然擁有能產生巨大回報的非凡基礎業務。隨著該業務的不斷成長，業務也會在此基礎上不斷成長。

Yes. That's where I was going. The margin would have been stronger if that was involved this quarter. And then the last thing is you've raised the equity, you did the Carlisle deal, which -- what was more equity than debt? I mean, when you look at you've delevered a bit and you've got your 28 no trading above par and you've got possibly interest rates coming down.

是的。那就是我要去的地方。如果本季涉及這一點，利潤率會更高。最後一件事是你籌集了股本，你完成了卡萊爾交易，股本比債務多多少？我的意思是，當你看到你已經去槓桿化了一點，你的 28 日交易額高於標準水平，而且你的利率可能會下降。

Jay, what's the capacity to add more debt capital when it's available? Are you looking at things like structured finance? I mean, just walk me through the balance sheet here. It just seems like it's really improved since the deal.

傑伊，當債務資本可用時，增加債務資本的能力有多大？您是否正在關注結構性融資之類的事情？我的意思是，請帶我去瀏覽這裡的資產負債表。自交易以來，情況似乎確實有所改善。

It has and the balance sheet is really strong and we're taking advantage, I think of every opportunity that would present itself specifically around capital. Assuming that here we've got this great inventory of contracts with this level of ROE that we should be purchasing and even if you apply this to the M&A, the M&A deals didn't really require much capital.

它已經做到了，而且資產負債表非常強勁，我們正在利用這一優勢，我想到了每一個專門圍繞資本出現的機會。假設我們有大量的合約庫存，具有我們應該購買的 ROE 水平，即使您將其應用於併購，併購交易實際上也不需要太多資本。

A lot of almost all of that was either through bond or through equity rollover. We're deploying this capital into those assets, which now how do we best utilize that? Is it through potential adding some more debt to the balance sheet?

其中大部分都是透過債券或股票展期實現的。我們正在將這些資本部署到這些資產中，現在我們如何最好地利用這些資產？是透過在資產負債表上增加更多債務來實現的嗎？

Certainly, taking a close look at that, particularly, as we're watching closely what rates do, and if rates come down substantially, that'll be at the forefront of our mind. And what does equity look like going forward too.

當然，仔細研究這一點，特別是當我們密切關注利率的變化時，如果利率大幅下降，這將是我們最關心的問題。未來的股權也會是什麼樣子？

Although, we had a very successful follow-on equity raise in June, what we're hearing from shareholders and investors is that there's significantly more appetite for additional equity to purchase. And so, we're also taking that into consideration as well.

儘管我們在 6 月進行了非常成功的後續股權融資，但我們從股東和投資者那裡聽到的是，購買額外股權的興趣明顯更大。因此，我們也考慮到了這一點。

With the acquisitions you did, I mean -- you guys, I mean, it seems like markets willing to give you capital just given how the growth in the business really congratulations and look forward to the next quarter.

我的意思是，透過你們所做的收購，你們，我的意思是，考慮到業務的成長確實令人祝賀並期待下個季度，市場似乎願意為你們提供資金。

We have reached the end of our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the call back over to Jay for closing remarks.

我們的問答環節已經結束。我想將電話轉回給傑伊進行結束語。

Great. Thank you again, everyone. And we are absolutely thrilled to highlight another strong and consistent and profitable quarter for Abacus. We are just as excited about our future and the opportunities that we have as our business and our company, and we look forward to continuing that journey with each and every one of you. I hope everyone has a great day today.

偉大的。再次謝謝大家。我們非常高興地強調 Abacus 又一個強勁、穩定且獲利的季度。我們對我們的未來以及我們所擁有的機會和我們的業務和公司一樣感到興奮，我們期待與你們每一個人繼續這趟旅程。我希望每個人今天都有美好的一天。

If you have any follow-up or further questions that you would like have answered, please feel free to reach out to Bill and myself and we're happy to schedule some additional time with you. Have a great day, everybody.

如果您有任何後續問題或其他問題希望得到解答，請隨時聯繫比爾和我本人，我們很樂意與您安排一些額外的時間。祝大家有美好的一天。

Thank you. This will conclude today's conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time and thank you for your participation.

謝謝。今天的會議到此結束。此時您可以斷開線路，感謝您的參與。