AllianceBernstein Holding LP (AB) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Thank you for standing by and welcome to the AllianceBernstein fourth-quarter 2024 earnings review. (Operator Instructions)

感謝您的支持，歡迎參加 AllianceBernstein 2024 年第四季財報評估。（操作員指令）

As a reminder, this conference is being recorded and will be available for replay on our website shortly after the conclusion of this call.

提醒一下，本次會議正在錄製中，電話會議結束後不久即可在我們的網站上重播。

I would now like to turn the conference over to the host for this call, Vice President of Investor Relations for AB, Mr. Ioanis Jorgali. Please go ahead.

現在，我想將會議交給本次電話會議的主持人，AB 投資者關係副總裁 Ioanis Jorgali 先生。請繼續。

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to our fourth-quarter 2024 earnings review. This conference call is being webcast and accompanied by a slide presentation that's posted in the Investor Relations section of our website, www.alliancebernstein.com.

大家早安，歡迎參加我們的 2024 年第四季財報回顧。本次電話會議將透過網路直播，並附有幻燈片演示，發佈於我們網站 www.alliancebernstein.com 的投資者關係部分。

With us today to discuss the company's results for the quarter are Seth Bernstein, President and CEO; and Jackie Marks, CFO; Onur Erzan, Head of Global Client Group and Private Wealth, will join us for questions after our prepared remarks.

今天與我們一起討論公司本季業績的有總裁兼執行長 Seth Bernstein；以及財務長 Jackie Marks；在我們發表準備好的演講之後，全球客戶群和私人財富主管 Onur Erzan 將會加入我們並回答問題。

Some of the information we'll present today is forward-looking and subject to certain SEC rules and regulations regarding disclosure. So I would like to point out the Safe Harbor language on slide 2 of our presentation. You can also find our Safe Harbor language in the MD&A of our 10-K, which will fall on February 14.

我們今天將介紹的一些資訊是前瞻性的，並受美國證券交易委員會有關披露的某些規則和規定的約束。因此，我想指出我們簡報第二張投影片上的安全港語言。您也可以在我們 2 月 14 日發布的 10-K 報告的 MD&A 中找到我們的安全港語言。

We base our distribution to unitholders on our adjusted results which we provide in addition to and not as a substitute for our GAAP results. Our standard GAAP reporting and a reconciliation of GAAP to adjusted results are in our presentation appendix, press release, and our 10-K. Under Regulation FD, management may only address questions of material nature from the investment community in a public forum. So please ask all such questions during this call.

我們根據調整後的結果向單位持有人進行分配，調整後的結果作為我們對 GAAP 結果的補充而不是替代。我們的標準 GAAP 報告以及 GAAP 與調整後結果的對帳均在我們的示範附錄、新聞稿和 10-K 中。根據公平揭露規則，管理階層只能在公開論壇上回答投資界提出的重大問題。因此，請在本次通話中詢問所有此類問題。

Now, I'll turn it over to Seth.

現在我將把話題交給賽斯。

Good morning and thank you for joining us today. 2024 was a transformative year for AllianceBernstein. We executed successfully on key initiatives that enhance our financial file while also expanding our investment in distribution capabilities.

早安，感謝您今天加入我們。 2024年對聯博來說是一個轉型之年。我們成功執行了一些關鍵舉措，這些舉措不僅增強了我們的財務檔案，也擴大了我們對分銷能力的投資。

AB's unique value proposition is highlighted on slide 3. We have a differentiated distribution platform, which includes our proprietary plus Private Wealth business. Our platform gives us an edge in growing markets like Asia, US High Net Worth, and Global Insurance. In 2024, we captured market share across all three of these segments.

AB 的獨特價值主張在投影片 3 中重點展示。我們擁有差異化的分銷平台，其中包括我們的自營業務和私人財富業務。我們的平台使我們在亞洲、美國高淨值和全球保險等成長型市場中佔據優勢。2024 年，我們將佔據這三個領域的市場。

We can also deliver our clients' distinctive investment capabilities across traditional and alternative asset classes. Our versatile skill set allows us to capitalize an asset reallocation trends as we've seen in fixed income. This also includes our growing private markets platform, which is supported by our strategic relationship with Equitable.

我們還可以為客戶提供跨傳統和另類資產類別的獨特投資能力。我們的多種技能使我們能夠利用固定收益中所見的資產重新配置趨勢。這也包括我們不斷發展的私人市場平台，該平台得到了我們與 Equitable 的策略關係的支持。

I will briefly cover our progress towards our 2027 targets later in my presentation.

我將在稍後的演講中簡要介紹我們實現 2027 年目標的進展。

In addition, as Jackie will discuss in further detail, we have a clear line of sight for further margin improvement, which will reflect on our results as we move into 2025, assuming markets do not deteriorate. Finally, AB has a tax-efficient partnership structure that prioritizes capital returns to shareholders, ensuring a disciplined approach to growth investments.

此外，正如 Jackie 後面將詳細討論的那樣，我們對進一步提高利潤率有著清晰的預期，假設市場沒有惡化，這將反映在我們 2025 年的業績中。最後，AB 擁有稅收效率高的合夥結構，該結構優先考慮向股東提供資本回報，確保採取規範的成長投資方式。

Moving to slide 4, I'll review our business highlights from the quarter and the year. First, we closed the Bernstein joint venture with SocGen and we relocated our New York City office. The JV allowed us to monetize the value in the business and eliminate a margin drag for AB, while putting Bernstein Research in the hands of a leading industry player with a vision to grow it.

轉到第 4 張投影片，我將回顧本季和本年度的業務亮點。首先，我們關閉了伯恩斯坦與法國興業銀行的合資企業，並將我們的辦公室遷至了紐約。透過合資，我們能夠將業務價值貨幣化，消除 AB 的利潤率拖累，同時將 Bernstein Research 交到具有發展願景的行業領導者的手中。

Our New York City relocation will contribute approximately $50 million in annual occupancy related savings that we intend to flow through the bottom line. Those initiatives enhance our margin profile, lower the capital intensity of our business, and enable us to focus on our core investment in wealth management capabilities.

我們遷至紐約市將帶來每年約 5,000 萬美元的入住相關節省，我們打算將這些節省轉化為利潤。這些措施提高了我們的利潤率，降低了業務的資本密集度，並使我們能夠專注於財富管理能力的核心投資。

Second, our active platform delivered over $4 billion of net inflows in 2024, and two of our three channels, Retail and Private Wealth grew organically. Despite resurgent rates volatility in the fourth quarter, our active fixed income platform grew at a 9% annual organic growth rate exceeding $24 billion in inflows in 2024, our highest year on record.

其次，我們的活躍平台在 2024 年實現了超過 40 億美元的淨流入，我們的三個管道中的兩個（零售和私人財富）實現了有機成長。儘管第四季利率波動再度加劇，但我們的主動固定收益平台的年有機成長率仍達到 9%，2024 年的流入資金超過 240 億美元，創下有記錄以來的最高水準。

Inflows exceeded $13 billion for tax exempt and approached $11 billion for taxable, growing 22% and 5%, respectively. Taxable flows moderated in the fourth quarter, particularly for our barbell American income strategy as the portfolio's intermediate duration exposure was impacted by higher rates.

免稅流入量超過 130 億美元，應稅流入量接近 110 億美元，分別成長 22% 及 5%。第四季應稅流量有所放緩，尤其是對於我們的槓鈴美國收入策略而言，因為投資組合的中期敞口受到了較高利率的影響。

Active equity outflows persisted totaling $7 billion in the fourth quarter and $24 billion throughout the year. Redemptions remain concentrated within institutions. Fourth-quarter outflows were driven by European and emerging market strategies, while global core and concentrated led full-year equity redemptions. Partially offsetting the negative trends, our US large cap growth strategy continues to resonate with clients across the globe, netting over $3 billion in inflows in 2024.

主動股票資金流出持續，第四季總額達 70 億美元，全年總額達 240 億美元。贖回仍然集中在機構內部。第四季的資金流出受到歐洲和新興市場策略的推動，而全球核心和集中資金引領了全年的股票贖回。我們的美國大盤股成長策略部分抵銷了負面趨勢，並持續引起全球客戶的共鳴，2024 年淨流入超過 30 億美元。

Third, our firm-wide fee rate is holding steady. This relative stability results in symmetrical growth between our management fees and our assets under management.

第三，全公司費率維持穩定。這種相對穩定使得我們的管理費和管理資產對稱成長。

Fourth, we continue to expand our investment capabilities and distribution coverage by a team lift out and vehicle versatility. Our European growth strategy now manages over $700 million since launching approximately one year ago. We also launched five new active ETFs and converted two wrapping up the year with 17 strategies and $5.5 billion in assets under management, 70% of which was net new assets.

第四，我們繼續透過團隊協作和車輛多功能性擴大我們的投資能力和分銷覆蓋範圍。我們的歐洲成長策略自大約一年前啟動以來，目前管理的資金超過 7 億美元。我們還推出了五隻新的主動型 ETF，並轉換了兩隻，年底時共擁有 17 種策略，管理的資產達 55 億美元，其中 70% 為淨新增資產。

Finally, we continue to expand our private markets platform through deepening existing partnerships and forging new ones. Our private markets AUM stands at $70 billion as of year-end, up 14% in 2024. We have now deployed approximately 20% of Equitable's second $10 billion commitment, and we continue to leverage our expertise and capabilities, tailoring them to insurance-oriented solutions.

最後，我們透過深化現有的合作夥伴關係和建立新的合作夥伴關係來繼續擴大我們的私人市場平台。截至年底，我們的私募市場 AUM 為 700 億美元，預計 2024 年將成長 14%。目前，我們已經部署了 Equitable 第二筆 100 億美元承諾資金的約 20%，並且我們將繼續利用我們的專業知識和能力，為其量身定制保險導向的解決方案。

We're pleased with the momentum of our newly formed insurance vertical led by Jeff Cornell, AB's investment in Ruby Re and our partnership of RGA represent significant milestones in the firm's strategy to become a leader in insurance asset management.

我們對由 Jeff Cornell 領導的新成立的保險垂直業務的發展勢頭感到滿意，AB 對 Ruby Re 的投資以及與 RGA 的合作代表了公司成為保險資產管理領導者策略的重要里程碑。

Slide 5 reflects the summary page with our key financial metrics. Jackie will follow up with more commentary on our results.

投影片 5 顯示了包含我們關鍵財務指標的摘要頁面。傑基將會對我們的結果進行更多評論。

Turning to slide 6. I'll review our investment performance, starting with fixed income. Long-term interest rates backed up considerably during the fourth quarter, driven by higher growth, persistent inflation and fewer rate cut expectations.

翻到幻燈片 6。我將回顧我們的投資業績，從固定收益開始。受經濟成長加快、通膨持續以及降息預期減弱的推動，長期利率在第四季大幅回升。

The Bloomberg US Aggregate Index returned negative 3% in the fourth quarter with intermediate and long duration selling off in response to fluctuating inflation rates and uncertainty over the Fed's future actions. Within credit, returns were driven by lower quality debt with US dollar hedged Bloomberg Global High Yield returning 1.1% in the fourth quarter.

彭博美國綜合指數第四季下跌 3%，受通膨率波動和聯準會未來行動的不確定性影響，中期和長期債券出現拋售。在信貸領域，回報受到較低品質債務的推動，其中美元對沖的彭博全球高收益債券在第四季度回報率為 1.1%。

Our one-year performance softened during the fourth quarter, both in relative and absolute terms given our yield curve position and are underweight to the lowest rated issuers. 57% of our assets under management is outperforming over the past year by 61% and 57% of our AUM outperformed over the three and five-year periods. Although rates volatility continues to affect sentiment and appetite for duration, we remain constructive as the steeper curve means extended duration is finally out yielding cash.

鑑於我們的殖利率曲線狀況，無論從相對值還是絕對值來看，我們的一年期業績在第四季度均有所疲軟，並且我們對評級最低的發行人的持倉不足。我們管理的資產中有 57% 在過去一年中表現優異，且有 57% 的資產管理規模在過去三年和五年中表現優異。儘管利率波動繼續影響市場情緒和對期限的興趣，但我們仍然持建設性態度，因為更陡峭的曲線意味著延長期限最終會產生現金收益。

Credit remains an area of strong interest off the back of a solid '24. Despite narrow spreads, yields remain high and fundamentals are supportive. As the market reprices future expectations, it creates opportunities for new investors. We remain optimistic on the outlook for fixed income demand into 2025, and we have the right strategies to compete for the next wave of the reallocation.

受24年強勁成長的推動，信貸仍然是人們關注的領域。儘管利差收窄，但收益率仍較高，且基本面具有支撐作用。隨著市場重新定價未來預期，它為新的投資者創造了機會。我們對 2025 年固定收益需求的前景仍然持樂觀態度，並且我們擁有正確的策略來爭奪下一波重新分配。

Our marquee income strategies, including American income, global high yield, and our fast-growing mortgage income product, our growing active fixed income ETFs in our industry-leading municipal platform.

我們的主打收入策略包括美國收入、全球高收益、快速成長的抵押貸款收入產品，以及我們行業領先的市政平台上不斷增長的主動固定收益 ETF。

Turning to equities. In the US, the S&P 500 returned 2.4% during the fourth quarter, with growth outperforming value by 900 basis points. Small caps ended flat as momentum waned in December. Global equities lagged the US in the fourth quarter.

轉向股票。在美國，標普 500 指數在第四季報酬率為 2.4%，成長表現優於價值表現 900 個基點。12 月份，小型股走勢減弱，收盤持平。第四季全球股市表現落後美國。

Performance for equity strategy remained challenged with 40% of our AUM outperforming over the one year while 35% outperformed over three years and 65% over the five-year period. Although we are encouraged by recent sides of improving market breadth, the headwinds from highly concentrated equity gains continue to impact some of our largest services.

股票策略的表現仍面臨挑戰，我們的 AUM 中有 40% 在一年內表現出色，35% 在三年內表現出色，65% 在五年內表現出色。儘管我們對近期市場廣度改善感到鼓舞，但高度集中的股權收益所帶來的阻力繼續影響著我們的一些最大的服務。

While performance has softened on account of this concentration, our client conversations around being underweight the MAG7 are healthy, and our investment philosophy still resonates with those who seek an active approach to investing. More than 20 strategy user funds across value, equity income, China, strategic core, and select US outperformed their respective benchmarks for composites over the one, three, and five-year periods.

雖然由於這種集中度，業績有所下滑，但我們的客戶圍繞減持 MAG7 的討論是健康的，我們的投資理念仍然與那些尋求積極投資方式的人士產生共鳴。超過 20 只涵蓋價值、股票收益、中國、戰略核心和美國精選市場的策略用戶基金在一年、三年和五年期間的表現均超越了各自的綜合基準。

Finally, I would highlight that our active strategies have had a robust start to the year. Diversification and equity allocations has become increasingly crucial and an active approach that emphasizes company fundamentals can offer the necessary diversification.

最後，我想強調的是，我們的主動策略在今年有一個強勁的開局。多元化和股權配置變得越來越重要，強調公司基本面的積極方法可以實現必要的多元化。

Moving on to slide 7 to cover our Retail highlights. Our Retail channel extended its organic growth streak to six consecutive quarters, rounding out our second straight year of positive channel flows and growing 5% annually in 2024.

請前往第 7 張投影片來介紹我們的零售亮點。我們的零售通路連續六季維持有機成長，連續第二年實現通路流量正成長，2024 年年增率為 5%。

Channel annual sales reached record 2021 levels while annual flows were the highest in three years. Fourth quarter activity was led by $5 billion in tax exempt inflows, as much as the channel's total [leaning] gains for the entirety of 2023. This was the highest ever quarterly game for retail [munis] making 12 consecutive years of organic.

2021年通路年銷售額創下歷史新高，年流量創三年來最高。第四季的活動由 50 億美元的免稅流入主導，相當於該通路 2023 年全年的總[傾向]收益。這是零售類（市政債券）有史以來最高的季度收益，連續 12 年實現有機成長。

Flows were negative for all other asset classes during the fourth quarter, reflecting seasonality trends and elevated rate volatility. For the year, Retail demand was driven by $19 billion in active fixed income with taxable and tax-exempt growing at 12% and 34%, respectively. Equity outflows during 2024 were largely concentrated with impassive while active also saw a 1% attrition rate.

第四季度，所有其他資產類別的資金流量均為負值，反映出季節性趨勢和利率波動加劇。今年，零售需求由 190 億美元的主動固定收益推動，其中應稅和免稅分別增加 12% 和 34%。2024 年股票資金流出主要集中在冷漠型，而主動型也出現了 1% 的流失率。

Versus the prior year, base management fees grew 24% during the fourth quarter and 17% during the full year 2024 reflective of market growth, net channel inflows, and base fee growth. Organic base fee growth exceeded 3% in 2024 and was slightly negative in the fourth quarter.

與前一年相比，第四季基本管理費成長了 24%，2024 年全年成長了 17%，反映了市場成長、淨通路流入和基本費用的成長。2024 年有機基礎費用成長率超過 3%，第四季略為負成長。

Moving to slide 8. Institutional redemptions accelerated in the final quarter of the year with active equities continuing to drive channel outflows. Additionally, fixed income's positive momentum reverted in response to higher interest rates, resulting in modest outflows during the fourth quarter. Net inflows in private placements, real estate debt and private credit were offset by realizations from maturing vintages.

移至幻燈片 8。今年最後一個季度，機構贖回加速，活躍的股票市場繼續推動通路資金流出。此外，由於利率上升，固定收益的正面動能出現恢復，導致第四季出現小幅資金流出。私募、房地產債務和私人信貸的淨流入被到期債券的變現所抵消。

For the full year, Institutional demand was constructive for taxable fixed income, growing 3% annually. Net deployments into alternatives exceeded $2 billion with modest multi-asset outflows, partially offsetting the trend. We had $2 billion in pipeline fundings during the fourth quarter with the pipeline now standing at $10.7 billion as of year-end.

全年而言，機構對應稅固定收益的需求良好，年增率為 3%。另類投資的淨部署超過 20 億美元，多種資產流出適度，部分抵銷了這一趨勢。我們在第四季的融資總額為 20 億美元，截至年底，融資總額已達 107 億美元。

The pipeline fee rate ticked higher to 45 basis points, reflecting $2.7 billion in new additions, predominantly in alternatives. This included $1 billion in commitments from RGA across residential mortgages, private placements, NAV lending, and middle market loans. These commitments reinforced our strategy initiating and scaling insurance-oriented products partnership with Equitable.

管道費率小幅上漲至 45 個基點，反映出新增 27 億美元，主要為替代品。其中包括 RGA 在住宅抵押貸款、私募、NAV 貸款和中間市場貸款方面承諾的 10 億美元。這些承諾加強了我們與 Equitable 建立和擴大保險產品合作夥伴關係的策略。

A prime example is our NAV lending strategy, which we launched 14 months ago and is already garnering solid interest. We're seeing momentum start to build in our insurance vertical and continue to view it as an important growth driver for the enterprise.

一個典型的例子就是我們的淨值借貸策略，該策略於 14 個月前推出，目前已經獲得了廣泛關注。我們看到保險垂直產業的發展動能開始增強，我們繼續將其視為企業的重要成長動力。

Moving to slide 9. Private Wealth ended the year on a strong foothold, growing at 1% annualized rate in the fourth quarter when tax of harvesting typically weighs on channel flows. 2024 marks our fourth consecutive year of organic growth for Bernstein driven by strong client demand for all multi-asset and tax exempt, growing at 13% and 8%, respectively.

移至幻燈片 9。私人財富管理以強勁勢頭結束了這一年度，第四季度的年化增長率達到 1%，而收穫稅通常會對通路流量造成壓力。 2024 年是伯恩斯坦連續第四年實現有機成長，這得益於客戶對所有多元資產和免稅的強勁需求，成長率分別達到 13% 和 8%。

As a reminder, our Private Wealth net flows exclude reinvested dividends and interest income, which is typically reported within net new assets across key wealth management peers. The channel's revenue surged during the fourth quarter, reflecting the three pillars of our platform's earnings power.

提醒一下，我們的私人財富淨流量不包括再投資的股息和利息收入，這些收入通常在主要財富管理同業的淨新資產中報告。該頻道的營收在第四季度大幅成長，反映了我們平台獲利能力的三大支柱。

Base fees growing roughly in line with assets, spread-based interest growing with cash and margin balances and performance fees resilient for private market strategies with the added benefit of potential upside from public markets. This upside leverage was on full display in 2024.

基本費用與資產成長大致一致，利差利息隨現金和保證金餘額增長，績效費用對於私人市場策略具有彈性，並具有來自公開市場的潛在上升空間。這種上行槓桿將在 2024 年充分展現。

Bernstein Wealth Management has been a pioneer in bringing alternative assets to the US High Net Worth segment. During 2024, we raised over $2.5 billion across our proprietary and third-party private alternative strategies. Off the back of a strong fundraising year, we deployed approximately $1.3 billion in net equity payments, primarily driven by real estate equity.

伯恩斯坦財富管理公司是向美國高淨值人士引入另類資產的先驅。2024 年，我們透過專有和第三方私人替代策略籌集了超過 25 億美元。在強勁的融資年度的支持下，我們部署了約 13 億美元的淨股權支付，主要由房地產股權推動。

Ending with slide 10, I'd like to provide a brief update on our private markets business targets. We're pleased with the progress toward our goal of reaching $90 billion to $100 billion of private markets AUM by 2027, at which point, these products should generate more than 20% of our asset management revenues.

最後以第 10 張投影片結束，我想簡單介紹一下我們的私人市場業務目標。我們很高興看到我們在實現 2027 年私募市場資產管理規模達到 900 億至 1000 億美元的目標方面取得了進展，屆時這些產品將產生我們資產管理收入的 20% 以上。

As of year-end 2024, our platform had reached $70 billion in fee earning and the eligible AUM, representing over 16% of our total asset management revenue for the year. Over the past several years, we've successfully expanded our business, leveraging existing capabilities and market presence into new growth areas such as NAV lending, asset-based finance, and residential mortgages. Additionally, we've continued to deliver strong growth in corporate middle market direct lending.

截至 2024 年底，我們平台的費用收入和合格 AUM 已達到 700 億美元，佔當年我們資產管理總收入的 16% 以上。在過去幾年中，我們成功拓展了業務，利用現有能力和市場影響力進入了資產淨值貸款、資產融資和住宅抵押貸款等新的成長領域。此外，我們在企業中端市場直接貸款方面持續保持強勁成長。

We're building upon our strategic partnership with Equitable to expand our capabilities in private investment grade, including specialty finance NAV lending, mortgages, and other insurance-oriented vehicles. The pace of our collaboration with Equitable and our vision to build the business together has accelerated, having now deployed $12 billion out of the $20 billion commitment.

我們正在與 Equitable 建立策略合作夥伴關係，以擴大我們在私人投資等級領域的能力，包括專業金融 NAV 貸款、抵押貸款和其他保險導向工具。我們與 Equitable 的合作步伐以及共同打造業務的願景已經加快，目前已部署 200 億美元承諾資金中的 120 億美元。

This helps attract investment talent and scales our business faster as we are able to offer borrowers a range of solutions across the cost of capital spectrum and match us assets to the unique risk/reward profiles of our diversified client base.

這有助於吸引投資人才並更快地擴大我們的業務，因為我們能夠為借款人提供涵蓋整個資本成本範圍的一系列解決方案，並將我們的資產與我們多元化客戶群的獨特風險/回報狀況相匹配。

I'm very proud of the progress we've made as an organization, and I would like to thank our colleagues, clients, and unitholders for their support as we make continued progress toward our commitments.

我對我們組織所取得的進步感到非常自豪，我要感謝我們的同事、客戶和單位持有人在我們不斷履行承諾的過程中給予的支持。

Now I'll pass it to Jackie to cover our financial results.

現在我將交給 Jackie 來介紹我們的財務結果。

Thank you, Seth, and everyone joining our call today.

謝謝塞斯以及今天參加我們電話會議的所有人。

AB's next chapter is built on a strong nation as evidenced by our solid fourth quarter and full-year results. Fourth quarter adjusted earnings of $1.05 per unit were up 36% versus the prior year and full-year adjusted earnings of $3.25 were up 21% versus prior year. Strong markets and stable fee rate improved operating leverage and robust performance fees drove EPU growth. Distribution and EPU grew uniformly as we distribute 100% of our adjusted earnings to unitholders.

AB 的下一章建立在強大的國家基礎之上，我們第四季和全年的穩健業績就證明了這一點。第四季調整後每股收益為 1.05 美元，較上年同期成長 36%，全年調整後每股收益為 3.25 美元，較上年同期成長 21%。強勁的市場和穩定的費率提高了營運槓桿，強勁的績效費推動了 EPU 成長。由於我們將 100% 的調整後收益分配給單位持有人，因此分配和 EPU 均勻增長。

On slide 11, we show our adjusted results, which remove the effect of certain items not considered part of our core operating business. For a reconciliation of GAAP and adjusted financials, please refer to our presentation appendix.

在投影片 11 上，我們展示了調整後的結果，消除了不被視為核心營運業務的某些項目的影響。有關 GAAP 與調整後財務資料的對賬，請參閱我們的示範附錄。

Fourth-quarter net revenues of $973 million were up 12% versus the prior year and up 26% on a like-for-like basis, excluding Bernstein Research Services revenue. Full-year revenues of $3.5 billion were up 5% versus prior year and up 15% excluding Bernstein Research Services. Fourth-quarter base fees increased 17% versus prior year, in line with the average AUM. Full-year base management fees of approximately $3 billion were up 12%.

第四季淨營收為 9.73 億美元，較上年同期成長 12%，不包括伯恩斯坦研究服務收入，年增 26%。全年營收為 35 億美元，較上年成長 5%，若不包括伯恩斯坦研究服務公司則成長 15%。第四季基本費用較上年同期增加 17%，與平均 AUM 一致。全年基本管理費約 30 億美元，上漲 12%。

Fourth-quarter performance fees of $133 million surged versus the prior year period, reflecting strong alpha generation across our public and private alternative strategies. Full-year performance fees of $227 million increased 80% year over year, coming in well above our guidance of $145 million to $155 million. I will follow up with more detail shortly.

第四季的績效費為 1.33 億美元，較去年同期大幅成長，反映出我們的公共和私人另類策略產生了強勁的阿爾法收益。全年績效費用為 2.27 億美元，年增 80%，遠高於我們預期的 1.45 億美元至 1.55 億美元。我將很快跟進更多細節。

Dividend and interest revenue, along with the broker-dealer related interest expense declined in the first quarter and full year, reflecting lower client cash and margin balances within Private Wealth.

第一季和全年，股息和利息收入以及經紀交易商相關的利息支出均有所下降，反映出私人財富部門的客戶現金和保證金餘額下降。

Moving to expenses. Fourth-quarter total operating expenses of $619 million were roughly flat versus the prior year with higher compensation offset by lower non-comp expenses. Full-year operating expenses of $2.4 billion were down 1%.

轉向費用。第四季總營運費用為 6.19 億美元，與上年基本持平，薪資支出的增加被非薪資支出的減少所抵消。全年營運支出 24 億美元，下降 1%。

Fourth-quarter total compensation and benefits expenses increased 7% versus prior year in absolute terms but our compensation ratio of 46% of adjusted net revenue in the quarter was below the prior year of 47.7% ratio and better than our guidance of 4%.

第四季總薪資和福利支出以絕對值計算較上年同期成長 7%，但本季我們的薪資佔調整後淨收入的 46%，低於上年的 47.7%，且優於我們的預期 4%。

Full-year revenues landed at a higher level than we had anticipated earlier in the year, allowing us to reduce the fourth-quarter compensation ratio. Hence, our full-year compensation ratio landed at 47.9% and versus the 48.5% implied in our prior guidance. We will begin to accrue at a 48.5% compensation ratio in the first quarter of 2025, below last year's first quarter level of 49% and we may adjust throughout the year depending on market conditions.

全年收入高於我們今年早些時候預期的水平，這使我們能夠降低第四季度的薪酬比率。因此，我們的全年薪資比率降至 47.9%，而我們先前預期為 48.5%。我們將從 2025 年第一季開始以 48.5% 的薪酬率計提，低於去年第一季 49% 的水平，我們可能會根據市場情況全年進行調整。

Promotion and servicing costs decreased 20% in the fourth quarter and 18% in the full year, reflecting the significant reduction of trade execution and clearance expenses from Bernstein Research Services. The decline in full-year 2024 promo and servicing came in at the lower end of our prior guidance, reflecting a pickup in travel and client meetings during the fourth quarter.

促銷和服務成本在第四季度下降了 20%，全年下降了 18%，反映了伯恩斯坦研究服務公司交易執行和清算費用的大幅減少。2024 年全年促銷和服務的下降處於我們之前預期的低端，反映了第四季度旅行和客戶會議的增加。

Fourth-quarter G&A expenses declined 14% year over year, largely driven by lower occupancy costs following the relocation of our New York City office, partially offset by a one-time charitable contribution of $5 million. Full-year G&A was down 7% versus prior year, in line with our guidance for a mid to high single-digit decrease.

第四季的一般及行政開支年減 14%，主要原因是我們紐約市辦事處遷址後佔用成本降低，但一次性 500 萬美元的慈善捐款部分抵銷了這一影響。全年一般及行政開支較上年下降 7%，符合我們預期的中高個位數降幅。

For the full year 2024, our Nashville relocation generated approximately $23 million in savings or $0.08 per unit. In 2025, we expect to realize roughly $50 million in occupancy-related savings from our relocation to Hudson Yards, which we intend to fully drop to the bottom line. We have achieved our target of $75 million of annual savings, which we delivered despite elevated inflation pressures since the time of our relocation announcement.

就 2024 年全年而言，我們的納許維爾搬遷節省了約 2,300 萬美元，即每單位 0.08 美元。2025 年，我們預計搬遷至哈德遜城市廣場將帶來約 5,000 萬美元的入住相關節省，我們打算將這筆錢完全計入利潤。我們已實現每年節省 7,500 萬美元的目標，儘管自宣布搬遷以來通膨壓力不斷加大，我們仍實現了這一目標。

In 2025, we anticipate full year non-compensation expense to fall within the range of $600 million to $625 million. We expect promotion and servicing to make up 20% to 25% of the non-comp expense and G&A to account for 70% to 75%. We do not anticipate significant quarterly fluctuations in G&A or promo and servicing following the deconsolidation of Bernstein Research Services. Please note that promo and services includes transfer fees, which moved directionally with the markets.

2025 年，我們預計全年非薪酬支出將在 6 億至 6.25 億美元之間。我們預計促銷和服務費用將佔非公司費用的 20% 至 25%，而一般行政費用將佔 70% 至 75%。我們預計，在伯恩斯坦研究服務公司拆分後，一般行政費用或促銷和服務費用不會有顯著的季度波動。請注意，促銷和服務包括轉讓費，該費用隨市場方向變動。

Our non-comp expense guide of $600 million to $625 million includes $50 million in go-forward annual savings from occupancy-related expenses while accounting for modest inflationary pressures.

我們的非經營性支出指南為 6 億至 6.25 億美元，其中包括在考慮適度通膨壓力的情況下，因入住相關費用而產生的 5,000 萬美元未來年度節省。

Interest on borrowings decreased by $6 million in the fourth quarter and $11 million in the full year 2024 compared to prior year period, reflecting the lower interest rates in the quarter and lower debt balances following debt repayments we made using the proceeds from the Bernstein joint venture and the private unit issuance.

與去年同期相比，第四季度借款利息減少了 600 萬美元，2024 年全年借款利息減少了 1,100 萬美元，反映了本季利率較低，以及我們使用伯恩斯坦合資企業和私人單位發行的收益償還債務後債務餘額較低。

We intend to leverage the incremental debt capacity to fund our commitment to the Ruby Re sidecar and take advantage of any other potential growth opportunities that may arise. ABLP's effective tax rate was 5.2% in 2024, in line with the low end of our 5% to 6% prior guidance, reflecting a favorable mix of earnings and increased income at the partnership level. Our guidance for ABLP's effective tax rate in 2025 is 6% to 7%, reflecting a more normalized taxable mix of earnings.

我們打算利用增量負債能力來資助我們對 Ruby Re 側車的承諾，並利用可能出現的任何其他潛在成長機會。ABLP 2024 年的有效稅率為 5.2%，與我們先前 5% 至 6% 的預期低端一致，反映了合夥企業層面的盈利組合良好及收入增加。我們對 ABLP 2025 年有效稅率的預期為 6% 至 7%，這反映了更正常化的應稅收益組合。

Moving on to slide 12. I will review the trajectory of our firm-wide based fee rate. As of 4Q '24, the firm-wide fee rate was 39.8 basis points, marginally lower than the previous quarter following two consecutive quarters of sequential increases. As we mentioned on our last call, the fee rate is influenced by numerous factors. We can't cover all of them, but some of the key trends in 4Q '24 included.

轉到投影片 12。我將回顧我們全公司的費率走勢。截至 2024 年第四季度，全公司費率為 39.8 個基點，在連續兩季上漲後略低於上一季。正如我們上次電話會議中提到的，費率受多種因素影響。我們無法涵蓋所有內容，但其中包括 24 年第四季的一些關鍵趨勢。

In alternatives, planned distributions from returning vintages outweighed net deployments across other strategies. In fixed income, elevated rates volatility affected our taxable fixed income flow and AUM. We observed outflows and AUM contraction within the high fee services such as American income. The majority of our active fixed income inflows were driven by muni SMAs in the fourth quarter, which typically have lower fees.

在替代方案中，回歸年份的計劃分配超過了其他策略的淨部署。在固定收益方面，利率波動加劇影響了我們的應稅固定收益流和資產管理規模。我們觀察到美國收入等高費用服務中的資金流出和 AUM 收縮。第四季度，我們的大部分主動固定收益資金流入都是由市政債券 SMA 推動的，此類債券的費用通常較低。

Equity markets gains were concentrated within the US, while non-US equity suffered losses. Although active equity outflows remain mainly concentrated at the institutional level, we also experienced some outflows within Retail and Private Wealth during the fourth quarter.

股票市場的漲幅集中在美國，而非美國股票則遭受損失。儘管主動股票資金流出仍然主要集中在機構層面，但我們在第四季度也經歷了零售和私人財富領域的一些資金流出。

Institutional active equity redemptions were concentrated in higher-fee non-US services. While our fee rate will remain mix dependent in the near term, we are selective with our growth initiatives, evolving our product capabilities, and regional sales mix to mitigate some of the fee erosion witnessed across the industry.

機構主動股票贖回集中在費用較高的非美國服務領域。雖然我們的費率在短期內仍將取決於產品組合，但我們會選擇性地實施成長計劃，提升我們的產品能力和區域銷售組合，以減輕整個產業出現的一些費用侵蝕現象。

Slide 13 reflects a breakdown of our performance fees by private versus public strategies. Full-year performance fees of $227 million rose 80% versus prior year, exceeding our prior guidance of $150 million. The fourth-quarter rally in US equities was a significant contributor to the upside.

投影片 13 反映了我們的績效費用按私人策略和公共策略的細目分類。全年績效費用為 2.27 億美元，較上年增長 80%，超過了我們先前預期的 1.5 億美元。美國股市第四季的上漲是推動股市上漲的重要因素。

In our public alternative strategies, the Financial Services opportunities fund generated over $35 million in performance fees that crystallized in December, thanks to strong idiosyncratic and sector performance. Our private alternative strategies also supported the be, mainly driven by AB CarVal and AB Private Credit Investors.

在我們的公共另類策略中，由於強勁的特殊性和行業表現，金融服務機會基金產生了超過 3500 萬美元的績效費，這些費用於 12 月實現。我們的私人替代策略也支持了該策略，主要由 AB CarVal 和 AB Private Credit Investors 推動。

Within AB CarVal, performance fees came in higher due to stronger-than-expected investment performance, while certain funds were in catch-up. Within AB PCI, our performance fees benefited from higher base rates and solid credit performance.

在 AB CarVal 中，由於投資績效優於預期，因此業績費用有所上漲，而某些基金的表現正在迎頭趕上。在 AB PCI 內部，我們的績效費受益於更高的基準利率和穩健的信用績效。

Overall, our performance fees in 2024 were primarily driven by our private alternative strategies but we also saw significant contribution from public strategies. Although public alpha is volatile and more difficult to predict, our public alternative strategies improve our market leverage profile and provide additional upside tied to public markets. This complements our more dependable private performance fees, creating a robust performance fee stream for our business.

整體而言，我們 2024 年的績效費用主要由我們的私人替代策略推動，但我們也看到公共策略的重大貢獻。儘管公共阿爾法值不穩定且難以預測，但我們的公共替代策略改善了我們的市場槓桿狀況，並提供了與公共市場相關的額外上行空間。這對我們更可靠的私人績效費用進行了補充，為我們的業務創造了強勁的績效費用流。

We maintain our guidance of $70 million to $75 million of recurring hurdle-based performance fees for 2025, driven by our private markets capabilities. These strategies include commercial real estate debt, CarVal, and middle market lending, also known as AB Private Credit Investors, or ABPCI.

在私人市場能力的推動下，我們維持 2025 年 7,000 萬至 7,500 萬美元的經常性基於障礙的績效費用指導水準。這些策略包括商業房地產債務、CarVal 和中間市場貸款（也稱為 AB 私人信貸投資者或 ABPCI）。

Turning to slide 14. In 2024, we delivered on key transformative initiatives that enhance the operating leverage of our platform. The fourth quarter of 2024 marked our first full quarter with both the JV and Hudson Yards completed.

翻到第 14 張投影片。2024年，我們實施了關鍵的變革舉措，提升了我們平台的營運槓桿。2024 年第四季是我們合資公司和哈德遜城市廣場均竣工的第一個完整季度。

4Q adjusted operating margin stood at 36.4%, up 720 basis points year on year, demonstrating the strong operating leverage of our platform, aided by new tailwinds. In robust market years, the fourth-quarter margin typically benefits from crystallization of performance fees and the compensation ratio true-up as annual expenses and revenues are realized.

第四季調整後營業利潤率為 36.4%，年增 720 個基點，顯示在新的有利因素推動下，我們平台具有強大的營運槓桿。在市場強勁的年份，第四季度的利潤率通常會受益於績效費用的反映和隨著年度支出和收入的實現而實現的薪酬比率的調整。

While we do not expect 36% to be the steady margin state going forward, we are very pleased with the robust operating leverage of our platform. Excluding Bernstein Research revenues, our year-over-year incremental margin was 50% as of 4Q at the higher end of our targeted 45% to 50% range.

雖然我們並不預期 36% 的利潤率會保持穩定，但我們對我們平台強勁的營運槓桿感到非常滿意。不計伯恩斯坦研究公司的收入，截至第四季度，我們的年增量利潤率為 50%，處於我們 45% 至 50% 目標範圍的高端。

Our full-year 2024 margin came in at 32.3% and up 410 basis points, reflecting strong markets and benefits from performance fees, a lower compensation ratio on higher realized revenues, and improved operating leverage. Based on current market levels, we continue to forecast a baseline adjusted operating margin of 33% for 2025 with upside potential from favorable markets.

我們的 2024 年全年利潤率為 32.3%，上漲 410 個基點，反映出強勁的市場和績效費帶來的好處、更高的實現收入帶來的較低薪酬比率以及提高的經營槓桿。根據目前的市場水平，我們繼續預測 2025 年的基線調整後營業利潤率為 33%，並且有利的市場具有上行潛力。

It is worth noting that when we first issued our 33% guidance for full year '25 on our 3Q call, our AUM was at a higher level. A 33% operating margin will put us above the midpoint of our 2027 estimated margin range target of 30% to 35%, two years ahead of schedule, with further potential for margin expansion over time as we scale our business.

值得注意的是，當我們在第三季電話會議上首次發布 25 年全年 33% 的預期時，我們的 AUM 處於較高水平。33% 的營業利潤率將使我們提前兩年達到 2027 年預計利潤率範圍目標 30% 至 35% 的中點，並且隨著我們業務規模的擴大，利潤率還有進一步提高的潛力。

While we are keenly focused on margins, we are also committed to investing to drive earnings growth and long-term value. We are, therefore, budgeting for some strategic growth investments, including bringing on new investment teams and launching new products that we expect to enhance returns over time.

在我們高度關注利潤率的同時，我們也致力於投資以推動獲利成長和長期價值。因此，我們正在為一些策略性成長投資編制預算，包括引入新的投資團隊和推出新產品，我們預計這些產品將隨著時間的推移提高回報。

Before opening the line for questions, I want to express my gratitude to our colleagues for their considerable efforts and unwavering commitment to our clients, unitholders and all stakeholders.

在開始提問之前，我想對我們的同事們表示感謝，感謝他們為我們的客戶、基金份額持有人和所有利益相關者所付出的巨大努力和堅定不移的承諾。

With that, we are pleased to answer your questions. Operator?

我們非常樂意回答您的問題。操作員？

(Operator Instructions) Craig Siegenthaler, Bank of America.

（操作員指示） Craig Siegenthaler，美國銀行。

And my question is actually a follow-up to Jackie's comments earlier today on the EQH call on your corporate structure. So in my coverage, AB is the only remaining company that still doesn't exist in a C corp structure. And now there's lots of examples across my coverage of companies that gained more passive ownership, more lonely active ownership and more importantly, a much higher stock valuation.

我的問題實際上是對 Jackie 今天早些時候在 EQH 電話會議上對貴公司結構的評論的後續。因此，在我的報告中，AB 是唯一一家仍不存在 C 公司結構的公司。在我報道的眾多公司中，有許多獲得了更多被動所有權、更多主動所有權，更重要的是，獲得了更高的股票估值。

So I'm curious to how AB thinks about that, the pros and the cons, because it looks like tax dilution is only something like 10% or low teens or LPs, and EQH can keep their low tax rate in an Up-C corp structure. So it really should be a win-win for everyone.

所以我很好奇 AB 對此有何看法，其利弊，因為看起來稅收稀釋只有 10% 或較低的 10% 或 LP，而 EQH 可以在 Up-C 公司結構中保持低稅率。所以這對每個人來說確實是一個雙贏的局面。

Sure. Thank you, Craig, for the follow-up. As I mentioned on the call this morning, the tax hurdle is a big one for us, bigger than the passive alternative asset managers who had converted. So that's one factor to consider.

當然。感謝 Craig 的跟進。正如我今天早上在電話會議上提到的那樣，稅務障礙對我們來說是一個很大的障礙，比那些已經轉換的被動另類資產管理者面臨的障礙更大。這是需要考慮的因素。

Also, in the Up-C example, we looked at that as well. And in that one, we would have to retain the general partnership. That, in turn, makes us ineligible for the major indices, another big factor. So at this time, it's something that we thought was too big a bet to make when you sort of need to enter the indices to really count on that multiple overall.

另外，在 Up-C 範例中，我們也研究了這一點。在這一點上，我們必須保留普通合夥關係。這反過來又使我們沒有資格納入主要指數，這是另一個重要因素。因此，我們認為此時賭注太大了，因為你需要進入指數才能真正依靠整體倍數。

I think, Craig, just adding to it, I think it's important to note that the alts' managers had a very different partnership structure than we have. And much of their income was taxed at a higher rate than ours is.

克雷格，我想補充一點，我認為需要注意的是，替代經理的合作結構與我們非常不同。他們的大部分收入的稅率比我們的要高。

So the hurdle for them to equalize the tax drag they were creating was significantly lower. And I think it's important for people to recognize that because we have a fiduciary obligation to make sure we're not disadvantaging our taxable unitholders today. And at the moment in what we see, given that getting index inclusion and having a higher hurdle across than others, it just -- the math didn't really add up for us as we considered the pros and cons of the trade.

因此，他們平衡自己造成的稅收拖累的障礙就明顯降低了。我認為人們認識到這一點很重要，因為我們有受託責任，要確保我們不會損害我們今天的應稅單位持有人的利益。目前我們看到的是，考慮到獲得指數納入和比其他股票面臨更高的門檻，當我們考慮交易的利弊時，這對我們來說並沒有真正的意義。

And so we're not close minded to the idea, but we just haven't been convinced that the upside of this offset the risks to us and more importantly, to our taxable unitholders, changing our corporate structure, recognizing that the partnership structure does limit the appetite for non-taxable investors to step into it and foreign investors. So let me just stop there.

因此，我們並不反對這個想法，只是我們不相信這種做法的好處能夠抵消我們面臨的風險，更重要的是，抵消我們應納稅單位持有人面臨的風險，改變我們的公司結構，認識到合夥結構確實限制了非納稅投資者和外國投資者介入的興趣。我就講到這裡。

Thank you for the comments. And I'll jump on to your question, but I think the tax debate is definitely a real one, although I do think if EQH remains the GP, they can -- your float can get in major indexes because that is an FCC corp. We've seen that a lot over the last eight years, but I'm going to circle up my index team on that. And let me jump on to bond reallocation.

感謝您的評論。我會立即回答你的問題，但我認為稅收論點肯定是一個真正的爭論，儘管我確實認為，如果 EQH 仍然是 GP，他們可以——你的浮動資金可以進入主要指數，因為它是一家 FCC 公司。在過去的八年中，我們已經多次看到這種情況，但我將讓我的指數團隊對此進行總結。讓我來談談債券重新分配。

So there was some noise in 4Q, and the 10-year rose a lot, which definitely didn't help. But I wanted your updated high-level thoughts on the pace of some of this record money market AUM could move off the sidelines via duration extensions and how AB is positioned to win in both taxable and munis, where you're already doing really well.

因此，第四季出現了一些噪音，而且 10 年期公債大幅上漲，這肯定沒有幫助。但我希望您能就創紀錄的貨幣市場 AUM 的成長速度，透過延長期限，以及 AB 如何在應稅債券和市政債券中佔據優勢地位（您在這方面已經做得非常好）提供最新的高層想法。

Well, let me start, and Onur may jump in on the question. He's on the phone as well. Yes, the backup in rates in December certainly didn't help. I think it reminded everybody that tariffs are inflationary. And the Fed's pause in activity, I think, reinforces more uncertainty as to the direction of rates.

好吧，讓我先開始，然後奧努爾可能會插話問這個問題。他也在打電話。是的，12月利率的回升確實沒有幫助。我想這提醒了每個人關稅會導致通貨膨脹。我認為，聯準會暫停升息進一步加劇了利率走向的不確定性。

All of that being said, we continue to see at least through January, pretty strong interest in fixed income. And it's important to note on an after-tax basis, from a muni perspective, you are better off, much better off than sitting in cash in a taxable money market fund. I think that's been an important ingredient in people's interest there. And also, I see it as a benefit to us in the sort of short and intermediate duration, funds and ETFs we have, where we continue to see interest in those funds.

儘管如此，至少到 1 月份，我們仍然看到人們對固定收益的興趣相當濃厚。值得注意的是，從市政債券的角度來看，從稅後角度來看，你的收益比將現金存放在應稅貨幣市場基金中好得多。我認為這是那裡人們感興趣的重要因素。此外，我認為這對我們有利，因為我們擁有短期和中期基金和 ETF，我們繼續看到人們對這些基金的興趣。

Onur, do you want to add something?

Onur，您想補充一點嗎？

Yes, sure. Craig, thanks for the question. I will add two things. One, the rear view in '24, we were one of the biggest beneficiaries of the rate normalization, right? That's how we generated almost $25 billion of net flows. So we definitely do very well in the favorable interest rate environment.

是的，當然。克雷格，謝謝你的提問。我要補充兩點。首先，從 24 年回顧來看，我們是利率正常化的最大受益者之一，對嗎？這就是我們如何產生近250億美元淨流量的。因此，在有利的利率環境下，我們肯定表現得非常好。

To Seth's point, in January, we continue to see fixed income demand. Obviously, given the recent volatility, still, there is some money sitting on the sidelines. But if you look at the shape of the yield curve, there is opportunity to add yield by going a little longer on the duration, and that tends to help our flagship products.

正如塞斯所說，一月份我們繼續看到固定收益需求。顯然，考慮到最近的波動，仍有一些資金在場外觀望。但如果你觀察殖利率曲線的形狀，你會發現透過延長期限可以增加殖利率，這往往對我們的旗艦產品有幫助。

So all in all, we are relatively bullish about our ability to benefit from the fixed income environment, and we are relatively hedged from a business perspective. As Seth mentioned, we have different solutions that can do well under different environments our mini SMA business continues to do well in the new year. And then we have the short-duration products, particular as part of our growing ETF lineup that continues to get traction.

總的來說，我們對於從固定收益環境中獲益的能力比較樂觀，而且從業務角度來看，我們相對比較謹慎。正如 Seth 所提到的，我們有不同的解決方案可以在不同的環境下表現良好，我們的迷你 SMA 業務在新的一年繼續表現良好。然後我們有短期產品，特別是作為我們不斷增長的 ETF 產品線的一部分，其持續受到關注。

Alex Blostein, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的亞歷克斯‧布洛斯坦 (Alex Blostein)。

I was hoping to spend a couple of minutes on your organic [basic] growth. I think it's the first time where you started to disclose that, perhaps more kind of officially in the deck, 3%-plus for the year, so helpful there. I was wondering if you could take a step back, and I know you don't have an explicit target, but as you look through the building blocks in the business, what you're trying to achieve? Where are you seeing traction? How durable do you think this mid or low single-digit organic base fee growth is for the company? What do you hope it can go over the next couple of years?

我希望花幾分鐘來了解你的有機[基本]成長。我認為這是你第一次開始披露這一點，或許更像是在正式的文件中披露，今年的增長率超過 3%，因此很有幫助。我想知道您是否可以退一步來說，我知道您沒有明確的目標，但是當您審視業務的基本要素時，您想要實現什麼？您在哪裡看到了吸引力？您認為這種中低個位數的有機基本費用成長對於公司來說能持續多久？您希望它在未來幾年內取得什麼進展？

Yeah, sure, Alex. One more again. Let me take that question, and others can chime in as needed. I mean, ultimately, as you well know, the fee rate is very business-mixed dependent, and not all of that is within our control, given the cyclical nature of the markets and the shifting client demands based on what happens with the macro environment, et cetera.

是的，當然，亞歷克斯。再來一個。讓我來回答這個問題，其他人也可以根據需要發表意見。我的意思是，最終，正如你們所知道的，費率在很大程度上取決於業務組合，而且並非所有因素都在我們的控制範圍內，因為市場具有周期性，而且客戶需求會隨著宏觀環境的變化而變化，等等。

I mean, that being said, if you focus on the things that are relatively more controllable and maybe focusing on those, obviously, we disclose our Institutional pipeline. If you look at the fee rate there, it went up in the last quarter with the additional private alts mandates we won.

我的意思是，話雖如此，如果你專注於相對更可控的事情，也許專注於這些事情，顯然，我們會揭露我們的機構管道。如果你看一下那裡的費率，你會發現，隨著我們贏得額外的私人替代授權，費率在上個季度有所上漲。

And if you look at the effective fee rate there, the effective fee rate on the Institutional pipeline is more than double our effective fee rate for the rest of the Institutional business. So that gives you a positive I think, indicator in terms of ability to add fee accretive strategies and benefiting from the organic revenue growth.

如果你看看那裡的有效費率，機構管道的有效費率是我們其餘機構業務的有效費率的兩倍以上。因此，我認為這為您提供了一個積極的指標，表明您有能力增加費用增值策略並從有機收入成長中受益。

The other thing, I think, which is probably more Matt, given we had pressure on Institutional equities for the last couple of years, if you look at our Institutional equity product base, the at-risk assets are lower. And from an outflow risk perspective, you will have a little bit of a protection from a denominator perspective, if you will, on the active equities. I mean, that being said, we have a large Retail business, and you can face volatility as well.

我認為另一件事可能更多的是馬特，考慮到過去幾年我們對機構股票的壓力，如果你看看我們的機構股票產品基礎，風險資產較低。並且從流出風險的角度來看，如果你願意的話，從分母的角度來看，你將對活躍股票有一點保護。我的意思是，話雖如此，我們擁有龐大的零售業務，您也會面臨波動。

So overall, I think our diverse business mix will make our fee rate relatively resilient vis-a-vis our competitors. We definitely have a very robust distribution platform, which should help with the net flows as we have demonstrated with our sales momentum in 2024.

因此總的來說，我認為我們多元化的業務組合將使我們的費率相對於競爭對手具有相對的彈性。我們確實擁有一個非常強大的分銷平台，這應該有助於淨流量，正如我們在 2024 年的銷售勢頭所證明的那樣。

It was our second best ever year from an overall sales perspective, and our Retail sales almost hit $100 billion. So even when periods where we have some challenges on one channel, the other channel comes into basic offset the softness and we continue to get active net flows.

從整體銷售角度來看，這是我們有史以來第二好的一年，我們的零售額幾乎達到 1000 億美元。因此，即使我們在某個管道遇到一些挑戰，另一個管道也能基本上抵消疲軟，我們仍能繼續獲得活躍的淨流量。

So combining that to net flows with a favorable fee embedded in the pipeline, definitely, there are things that can help with our fee accretion. That said, you know the markets are volatile, and we have some risks intrinsic to this industry and our business.

因此，將淨流量與管道中嵌入的優惠費用相結合，肯定有一些事情可以幫助我們增加費用。話雖如此，您知道市場是動蕩的，我們的這個行業和我們的業務存在一些固有的風險。

All right. Fair enough. And maybe just a quick follow-up to Craig's question around the corporate structure and what sounds like index conversion that's -- or sorry, C corp conversion that's relatively off the table for now.

好的。很公平。也許只是對 Craig 關於公司結構的問題進行快速跟進，聽起來像是指數轉換 - 或者抱歉，C 公司轉換目前相對不可能。

As you kind of take a step back and we've spoken about this in the past, probably not a lot of debate at the valuation of the stock is probably not overly reflective of the growth in the business, are there other things you might consider whether it's changed to your capital allocation process or broader ownership of AllianceBernstein that could unlock shareholder value if C corp conversion is off the table?

您退一步來說，我們過去也談過這個問題，可能對股票估值沒有太多的爭論，可能沒有過度反映業務的增長，還有其他您可能考慮的事情嗎？

So when you'd say capital allocation process, what -- can you just clarify for me what you mean by that? Because we already distribute everything we earn.

那麼當您說到資本配置過程時，您能為我解釋一下您的意思嗎？因為我們已經把我們所賺的一切都分配了。

Right, just share repurchases versus dividends.

正確的，只是股票回購與股利。

Sorry. Well, I mean, I think we need to go and do some thinking around it. But the truth is we can't really retain anyway. So by the nature of the structure, we have to distribute it. So to do share repurchase, we effectively have to borrow to fund them. So I mean we can think about it, but it's a volatile business to start with, and we like having a fairly conservative balance sheet to deal with that volatility.

對不起。嗯，我的意思是，我認為我們需要對此進行一些思考。但事實是，無論如何我們都無法留住它。所以根據結構的性質，我們必須對其進行分配。因此，為了回購股票，我們實際上必須借錢來提供資金。所以我的意思是我們可以考慮一下，但這首先是一個不穩定的業務，我們希望有一個相當保守的資產負債表來應對這種波動。

Bill Katz, TD Cowen.

比爾·卡茨（Bill Katz），TD Cowen 公司。

Just coming back to the C corp discussion for a moment. Could you tell us what you're penciling out for dilution related to the taxes by simply say, roughly 10% hit, you're back to 11 multiple, which Alex's argument is in line despite differentiated storyline. So my broader question is, if you're unwilling to convert to a C corp, what is the appetite to potentially sell the franchise to unlock value?

暫時回到 C 公司討論。您能否告訴我們，您如何計算與稅收相關的稀釋度，簡單地說，大約 10% 的衝擊，您就回到了 11 倍，儘管故事情節有所不同，但 Alex 的論點是一致的。所以我更廣泛的問題是，如果您不願意轉換為 C 公司，那麼出售特許經營權以釋放價值的興趣有多大？

Sorry. We're modeling a mid-20 tax rate, so you can just back into the impact of that. And effectively, that would require a minimum of a 2 times multiple expansion.

對不起。我們正在模擬 20% 的中間稅率，因此您可以回顧一下其影響。實際上，這至少需要 2 倍的擴張。

Look, I think -- thinking about it, Bill, I don't think we have any interest necessarily in selling the business in order to unlock value. (technical difficulty)

聽著，我認為——仔細想想，比爾，我認為我們沒有必要透過出售業務來釋放價值。（技術難度）

I'm sorry, I don't know what that was, but I don't think we have any interest in selling the business. We think we're operating the business very effectively, and we really think that the partnership with Equitable is a critical component of the success that we've had, and that partnership continues to expand and grow. And I think it has resulted in benefit of our third-party unitholders, significant benefit to them.

抱歉，我不知道那是什麼，但我認為我們無意出售該業務。我們認為我們的業務運作非常有效，我們確實認為與 Equitable 的合作是我們成功的關鍵因素，而這種合作將繼續擴大和發展。我認為這給我們的第三方單位持有人帶來了巨大的利益。

So we like the model we have. We like how it positions us, particularly in the insurance space and in our ability to have a compelling story to new investment teams, particularly in private alts to be a platform that allows them to scale more quickly than they could do it on their own.

所以我們喜歡我們現有的模型。我們喜歡它對我們的定位，特別是在保險領域，以及我們向新的投資團隊講述引人入勝的故事的能力，特別是在私人替代產品中，作為一個平台，他們可以比自己更快地擴展。

So we think it is a very tax-efficient and very capital structure-efficient model that we have in place and are comfortable functioning within it. Let me stop there, Bill, and make sure I fully answered your question.

因此，我們認為這是一個非常具有稅收效率和資本結構效率的模型，我們已經實施了這個模型，並且可以輕鬆地在該模型內運作。比爾，讓我就此打住，並確保我完全回答了你的問題。

Just as a follow-up, maybe to change the tone of the question. You mentioned that you're seeing a little bit better vibrancy in terms of the first month of new year. I know AUM would be out shortly. I was wondering if you could just give us a sense of how net volumes are trending maybe across the different distribution channels or the asset classes and within that, where do you think you are in terms of the runoff risk associated with the Institutional equity book?

只是作為後續行動，也許可以改變問題的基調。您提到，新年第一個月的活力稍微好一點。我知道 AUM 很快就會出來。我想知道您是否可以向我們介紹不同分銷管道或資產類別的淨交易量趨勢，以及您認為機構股權帳簿的流失風險處於什麼位置？

Sure. Happy to take that one. Onur here again. We had a positive start to the year, definitely seeing continued strength in multiple geographies and distribution channels. US Retail continues on a very strong trajectory. We continue to get very good traction in fixed income with our major distribution partners, large wires and independent broker dealers. Very pleased with that.

當然。很高興接受這個。奧努爾又來了。我們今年有一個良好的開端，在多個地區和分銷管道中繼續保持強勁勢頭。美國零售業持續保持強勁成長勢頭。我們與主要分銷合作夥伴、大型電報公司和獨立經紀交易商在固定收益領域繼續保持良好的合作關係。我非常高興。

We are looking to add a couple of more large strategic relationships from a Retail distribution perspective in the new year. So that will be hopefully additive to our January starts.

我們希望在新的一年從零售分銷的角度增加一些更大的策略關係。所以希望這對我們一月份的開始有所幫助。

Secondly, it was very encouraging to see our Japan business continue to do very well despite Japanese central bank actions and some of the US Japanese and dynamics. Our Japan business continued on a strong trajectory. So that's a positive.

其次，儘管日本央行採取了一系列舉措，且美國對日政策也出現了一些變化，但我們在日本的業務仍然表現良好，這讓我們感到非常鼓舞。我們的日本業務持續保持強勁成長勢頭。這是積極的。

Definitely seeing some momentum in Southern Europe on back of some of the economic strength in that geography. We historically had strong equity followership with the broadening of the market events. We are seeing some appetite and strategies that has not been that popular until recently, some of the more defensive strategies, low-vol type of strategies, for instance.

由於南歐地區的一些經濟實力，我們確實看到了該地區的一些發展勢頭。從歷史上看，隨著市場事件的擴大，我們擁有強大的股票追隨者。我們看到了一些直到最近才開始流行的興趣和策略，例如一些更具防禦性的策略、低波動類型的策略。

And then on the Institutional side, all the hard work that went into and the investments we put to build our insurance business is now delivering strong benefits, and we expect to accelerate. We obviously talked a lot about our new partnership with RGA. But beyond that, we continue to win new insurance mandates domestically and internationally, and that gives me a strong confidence in terms of our ability to grow insurance with Equitable as well as large insurance clients.

在機構方面，我們為建立保險業務而付出的所有努力和投資現在都帶來了強勁的收益，而且我們預計還會加速。我們顯然談論了很多與 RGA 的新合作關係。但除此之外，我們繼續在國內外贏得新的保險授權，這讓我對我們與 Equitable 以及大型保險客戶共同發展保險業務的能力充滿信心。

In terms of the Institutional equities, as I mentioned in my previous comments, if you look at some of the relatively performance challenged products that sits in our Institutional equities, the AUM in those is relatively more modest now.

就機構股票而言，正如我在之前的評論中提到的那樣，如果您看一下我們機構股票中一些業績相對不佳的產品，您會發現這些產品的 AUM 現在相對較小。

As a result, if you look at our assets at risk kind of forecast, those show a more favorable picture. I mean, obviously, generating new sales is different than outflows, but it is on the outflow front, I see a positive trend. So when you add it up, I think it's a relatively positive outlook and we continue to have, again, diverse waste to win by asset class as well as by different channels.

因此，如果你看看我們的資產風險預測，你會發現前景更樂觀。我的意思是，顯然，產生新的銷售額不同於流出，但在流出方面，我看到了一個積極的趨勢。因此，當你把它們加起來時，我認為這是一個相對積極的前景，而且我們將繼續透過資產類別和不同管道獲得多樣化的收益。

Last, but not the least, obviously, we will have now more opportunities to distribute our private credit solutions. I touched on Insurance, but the other exciting development is our first interval fund out of CarVal, AB CarVal, is in the market now. It has been active in all of the large custodian platforms, i.e., available to RIA distribution. And starting with the second quarter, we are turning on some broker-dealer partners as well as we approach the AUM threshold.

最後，但並非最不重要的一點是，顯然，我們現在將有更多的機會分銷我們的私人信貸解決方案。我談到了保險，但另一個令人興奮的發展是我們從 CarVal 推出的首個間隔基金 AB CarVal 現已上市。它已活躍於所有大型託管平台，即可供 RIA 分發。從第二季開始，隨著我們接近 AUM 門檻，我們也開始與一些經紀交易商合作夥伴合作。

So very pleased with the momentum with our internal fund, which now has $200 million-plus in assets, and we expect that to expand significantly as we add more distribution with large distribution partners.

我們對我們的內部基金的發展勢頭感到非常高興，該基金目前擁有超過 2 億美元的資產，並且我們預計，隨著我們與大型分銷合作夥伴增加分銷量，該基金的資產規模將大幅擴大。

I guess I would just add, Onur, that performance in equities has picked up quite a bit in the start of the year as we've seen more dispersion in performance among names and our growth portfolios are performing pretty well and gaining back some traction. And we've seen Institutional equity search and win activities. So it's hard to call when the tide turns, we're not going to do it today, but it's going in the right direction.

我想補充一點，奧努爾，今年年初股市表現已經有了很大的回升，因為我們看到各股票表現的分散性加大，而我們的增長型投資組合表現相當不錯，並重新獲得了一些吸引力。我們已經看到了機構股權搜尋和獲勝活動。所以很難預測情勢何時會發生變化，我們今天不會這樣做，但情況正在朝著正確的方向發展。

Could I ask a third question?

我可以問第三個問題嗎？

Sure.

當然。

Maybe it's a fourth question. I know it's a long queue. You mentioned, Seth, in your prepared comments about some investment spending, including possibly for new products and or teams. I'm wondering if you could just update us maybe what you're thinking about on the M&A side?

也許是第四個問題。我知道隊很長。塞思，在你準備好的評論中你提到了一些投資支出，可能包括用於新產品或團隊的投資支出。我想知道您是否可以告訴我們您在併購方面的想法？

And then for Jackie, you mentioned the guidance. And then you mentioned that markets go up. If markets were to go down, how much flex do you have on some of the fixed costs within the non-comp OpEx side?

然後對於 Jackie，您提到了指導。然後你提到市場上漲。如果市場下跌，那麼非公司營運支出方面的一些固定成本能有多少彈性？

So that was really two questions. But let me answer the first one and Jackie will answer the second. We -- look, we look at traditional where we see opportunistically where we see a really distinctive team or capability that we think need to client demand.

所以這其實是兩個問題。但讓我來回答第一個問題，而 Jackie 將回答第二個問題。我們—看，我們從傳統的角度看，從機會的角度來看，我們看到一個真正獨特的團隊或能力，我們認為需要滿足客戶的需求。

But we spend more of our time focused both on alts and in the wealth management area, we look in that segment as well, mindful of the multiples that are out there. But I guess what I would say in the private oil sector, we continue to look at strategies that fit into the needs of liability managers like insurance companies. So if not private credit, infrastructure, areas like that, that we would be interested in filling out our capabilities.

但我們花了更多的時間專注於另類投資和財富管理領域，我們也會關注這個領域，並留意那裡的倍數。但我想說，在私人石油領域，我們將繼續研究適合保險公司等負債管理者需求的策略。因此，如果不是私人信貸、基礎設施等領域，我們就會有興趣填補我們的能力。

And Jackie, why don't you take the next part of the question?

傑基，你為什麼不回答下一個問題呢？

Sure. Thank you. Yeah. Look, I mean, we remain very disciplined about our cost base. We -- as I mentioned, we're investing for future and for growth, but we are very disciplined our options and our optionality in both comp and non-comp. So whether it's in terms of how quickly we hire or do not hire or whether it's on non-comp, we know exactly what's discretionary and what's fixed and we have all those levers to us if we should need to pull them. But as of right now, we're very much focused on investing for the future.

當然。謝謝。是的。你看，我的意思是，我們對我們的成本基礎保持著非常嚴格的紀律。正如我所提到的，我們是為了未來和成長而進行投資，但我們對自己在同類產品和非同類產品中的選擇和可選性都非常謹慎。因此，無論是就我們聘用或不聘用的速度而言，還是就非薪酬而言，我們都清楚地知道哪些是可自由支配的，哪些是固定的，並且如果需要的話，我們可以利用所有這些槓桿。但截至目前，我們非常注重未來的投資。

John Dunn, Evercore ISI.

約翰‧鄧恩 (John Dunn)，Evercore ISI。

You mentioned active ETFs have come up a couple of times. Like just maybe give us a flavor of how you're seeing those scale? And how big roster do you want that to be? And then maybe the profile of the investors you're marketing them to?

您曾提到主動式 ETF 已經出現過幾次。能否讓我們了解一下您如何看待這些規模？您希望名單有多大？然後也許是您向其行銷的投資者的概況？

Sure. Hi, John. I can comment on that. We now have 17 active ETFs. These ETFs are all in the US and covers a large range of investment areas, fixed income equities, as well as some of the more buffered strategies.

當然。你好，約翰。我可以對此發表評論。我們目前有 17 個活躍的 ETF。這些 ETF 都位於美國，涵蓋了廣泛的投資領域、固定收益股票以及一些更緩衝的策略。

If we think about the scale, already 6 out of our 17 ETFs cleared more than $0.5 billion mark. So if you think about the [5.5] that we ended '24, 6 of the funds have already more than $0.5 billion. So we are really pleased with having multiple winners in that product set, and it's diversified with large fixed income products, equity products, proper products. So it allows us to play into different areas.

如果我們考慮規模，我們的 17 檔 ETF 中已有 6 隻的市值超過 5 億美元。因此，如果你想想我們 24 年末的 5.5 億美元，其中 6 檔基金的資金總額已經超過 5 億美元。因此，我們非常高興該產品系列中有多個贏家，並且該產品系列多樣化，包括大量固定收益產品、股票產品和適當產品。因此它使我們能夠涉足不同的領域。

In terms of the profile, we benefit from, obviously, our proprietary well channel, but more importantly, the larger opportunity remains in the third-party channels. And we have seen great opportunities opening up for us, particularly with RIA because until you get to certain AUM thresholds and some time in the market, you're not typically on the shelf of the large broker dealers.

從概況來看，我們顯然受益於專有的油井通路，但更重要的是，第三方通路仍有更大的機會。我們看到了巨大的機遇，特別是 RIA，因為在你達到一定的 AUM 門檻並在市場上呆上一段時間之前，你通常不會被大型經紀交易商所青睞。

So as a result, your first buyers and the first several hundred million dollars typically focuses on the RIA channel, and we really benefited from using ETFs as well as our other high net worth oriented strategies like SMAs to open a lot of new doors into our RIA channel.

因此，您的第一批買家和最初的數億美元通常會集中在 RIA 管道，而我們確實受益於使用 ETF 以及其他面向高淨值市場的策略（如 SMA），為我們的 RIA 管道打開了許多新的大門。

And in terms of investments in distribution, RIA channel and specialization, and the new special sources, we put on the ground for that along with our ETF specialists and our ETF team is definitely helping us to unlock those new opportunities. And if I reflect on the last five, six weeks, we see the continued momentum with those ETF strategies, and we are on a very positive trajectory.

在分銷、RIA 通路和專業化以及新的特殊來源的投資方面，我們與 ETF 專家一起為此付出了努力，我們的 ETF 團隊肯定會幫助我們發掘這些新的機會。如果我回顧過去五、六週，我們會看到這些 ETF 策略的勢頭持續增強，並且正處於非常積極的軌道上。

And in terms of future expansions to your other question, we are looking at two dimensions. One, obviously, we have a very strong Asia distribution as Asia becomes more viable for active ETFs, definitely it's on our radar. We have very strong distribution in multiple markets, as you know. So that could be a venue for us as an expansion.

關於您另一個問題的未來擴展，我們正在研究兩個維度。首先，顯然我們在亞洲擁有非常強大的分銷能力，因為亞洲對於主動 ETF 來說變得越來越可行，因此它肯定在我們的關注範圍內。如您所知，我們在多個市場擁有非常強大的分銷能力。因此這可以成為我們擴展的場所。

And then in terms of our product lineup, given some of the relative value opportunities in emerging markets, and some of the other extensions in fixed income with the rate outlook, et cetera. So emerging markets and some of the fixed income categories that are on our radar for the domestic lineup.

然後就我們的產品陣容而言，考慮到新興市場的一些相對價值機會，以及固定收益中的一些其他延伸以及利率前景等等。因此，新興市場和一些固定收益類別是我們國內關注的重點。

Makes sense. And then maybe extending from that, I think you guys said that there was a bunch of places outside the US that where US growth equities was thriving. You mentioned Japan. I think that's what most people associate with. Are there any other non-Japanese regions where that strategy is in demand?

有道理。然後也許從這一點延伸開來，我想你們說過，在美國之外還有很多地方，美國成長型股票正在蓬勃發展。您提到了日本。我想這就是大多數人所聯想到的。除了日本以外，還有哪些地區需要這種策略？

Yeah. So in Europe, we definitely have seen good success by deepening our partnerships with 546 regional banks and getting into multiproduct relationships and a couple of also more wealth management type institutions. If I were to call out three markets where equities have been very dominant, it would be UK, Italy, and Spain, if I take maybe last 12 to 18 months view, including '25.

是的。因此，在歐洲，我們透過深化與 546 家地區銀行的合作夥伴關係、建立多產品關係以及與更多財富管理類型的機構建立合作關係，確實取得了良好的成功。如果我要說出三個股票主導的市場，那將是英國、義大利和西班牙，如果我考慮過去 12 到 18 個月的觀點，包括 25 年。

Dan Fannon, Jefferies.

丹‧範農 (Dan Fannon)，傑富瑞 (Jefferies)。

Just one question for me on Private Wealth. Obviously, a good year in the fourth quarter as you look at slide 9 and the breakdown of the revenues. But do you think prospectively and the investments you're making, how should we think about growth in this business? How in terms of getting new advisers, attracting new advisers, you mentioned even inorganic? So just curious about your thoughts around growth for this segment.

我只想問一個關於私人財富的問題。顯然，如第 9 頁幻燈片中收入明細所示，第四季度是一年中業績表現良好的一年。但是您是否考慮過前瞻性以及您所做的投資，我們應該如何看待這項業務的成長？在獲得新顧問、吸引新顧問方面，您有提到甚至是無機的嗎？我只是好奇您對該部分增長的看法。

Sure. Yeah. As you mentioned, we had record AUM in our Private Wealth business and record adviser productivity. We increased our adviser head count by a couple of percentage points as well. And as you grow, obviously, the bar for growth goes even higher. So that means we need to add more advisers to our platform. We have been gearing up for that for the last couple of years.

當然。是的。正如您所說，我們的私人財富業務的資產管理規模和顧問生產力都創下了歷史新高。我們也將顧問的數量增加了幾個百分點。隨著你的成長，顯然，成長的標準會更高。所以這意味著我們需要在我們的平台上增加更多的顧問。過去幾年我們一直在為此做準備。

That will take multiple forms. We're not constraining our flexibility by just aiming for one lever. The levers available to us are one, accelerating our traditional recruiting program. We tend to hire 35 or so advisers a year. We can definitely increase that.

這將採取多種形式。我們不會因為只瞄準一個槓桿而限制我們的靈活性。我們可以利用的手段之一是加速我們的傳統招聘計劃。我們每年大約會聘請 35 位顧問。我們肯定可以增加這個數字。

Second, looking at experienced advisors. We have added a couple already in the new year from local RIAs in geographies where we are underpenetrated. So we definitely have a very active recruiting program, including a dedicated organizational structure to go after those experienced advisers.

第二，尋找經驗豐富的顧問。在新的一年裡，我們已經從我們滲透率較低的地區的本地 RIA 中增加了一些客戶。因此，我們確實有一個非常積極的招募計劃，包括一個專門的組織結構來尋找那些經驗豐富的顧問。

And remember, we have not done that if you go back to our history, so the Experience Adviser recruiting program is net new. And then finally, we have the ability to do M&A and that will be more in the lower size RIA kind of market. We are not looking to be an RIA roll-up, or we are not after the mega RIAs.

請記住，如果回顧我們的歷史，我們並沒有這樣做過，因此體驗顧問招募計畫是全新的。最後，我們有能力進行併購，這將更多地針對規模較小的 RIA 市場。我們不想成為 RIA 匯總，或者我們並不追求超級 RIA。

But given we are in only 20 markets and some of the markets that we are in, we are underpenetrated. We have a lot of opportunity to grow our market share in a very scalable way by adding RIAs in a tuck-in fashion. And definitely, that's part of our playbook, and we also made some hires to facilitate that strategy.

但考慮到我們只涵蓋 20 個市場，而且在部分市場我們的滲透率還不夠。透過以附加方式添加 RIA，我們有很多機會以非常可擴展的方式擴大我們的市場份額。毫無疑問，這是我們策略的一部分，而且我們也進行了一些招募來推進這項策略。

So those are the things that will help us. And then finally, with our new Chief Marketing Officer that joined us in '24 from one of our competitors. We're also looking at other ways to continue to feed new clients generation sources to our existing advisers as well. So definitely, those are the investments we have made that will yield benefits in terms of sustaining and accelerating our growth.

這些都是對我們有幫助的東西。最後，我們的新行銷長於 1924 年從我們的競爭對手加入了我們。我們也在尋找其他方式來繼續為現有的顧問提供新的客戶生成來源。因此，毫無疑問，我們所做的這些投資將在維持和加速我們的成長方面產生效益。

Benjamin Budish, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的班傑明‧布迪什 (Benjamin Budish)。

Just one for me as well. Just curious on the Institutional side. You commented a little bit about the pipeline. Curious if you could share any color on sort of known upcoming redemptions deal wins, sort of things we should expect to impact in Q1? And more broadly for the year, what are your thoughts on sort of improving the overall redemption rate, which was a bit more challenged in the back half of the year versus the first?

對我來說也只有一個。只是對機構方面感到好奇。您對管道發表了一些評論。好奇您是否可以分享一些已知的即將到來的贖回交易勝利的詳細信息，以及我們預計會在第一季度產生影響的事情？就今年的整體情況而言，您對提高整體贖回率有何看法？

Yeah, sure. In terms of the outlook for the Institutional business, you have the Institutional pipeline. The one thing I always remind ourselves in these calls is our pipeline is only Institutional but we also have other sub-advisory kind of wins that we tend to have in our Retail channel and then sometimes quasi-institutional business like small foundations and endowments or cash balance plans and things like that in our Private Wealth channel. So the Institutional pipeline is only one lens into the Institutional client base.

是的，當然。就機構業務的前景而言，您擁有機構管道。在這些電話會議中我始終提醒自己一件事，那就是我們的管道只是機構，但我們也擁有其他次級諮詢類型的勝利，我們往往在零售渠道中獲得這些勝利，有時還會獲得準機構業務，例如小型基金會和捐贈基金或現金餘額計劃等，這些在我們的私人財富渠道中。因此，機構管道只是機構客戶群的視角。

In terms of what we are seeing -- in terms of big outflows relative to previous two, three years, I think we're in a better spot, as I also commented before. So as a result, there isn't any massive kind of known mandates to depart that will have a disproportionate impact relative to our last two, three years of run rates, including the second half of last year.

就我們所看到的情況而言——與前兩三年相比，資金大量流出，我認為我們的情況有所好轉，正如我之前評論的那樣。因此，目前還沒有任何已知的大規模強制要求會對我們過去兩三年（包括去年下半年）的運行率產生不成比例的影響。

In terms of recent wins, we definitely saw an uptick in our win rate in insurance based on the investments we have made, that will be more in the taxable fixed income area. And then we continue to look for additional strategic opportunities in insurance that could be additive, again, RGA was definitely a positive for us, and we continue to look for similar strategic relationships in insurance, that could be additive to our Institutional business.

就最近的勝利而言，根據我們所做的投資，我們確實看到保險勝利率上升，這在應稅固定收益領域將更多。然後，我們繼續在保險領域尋找可能具有附加價值的其他策略機會，RGA 對我們來說絕對是一個積極因素，我們將繼續在保險領域尋找類似的策略關係，這可以為我們的機構業務增添價值。

So those are the few things that I would highlight as the major kind of positives.

所以這些就是我要強調的幾件主要正面的事情。

There are no further questions at this time. Mr. Jorgali, I turn the call back over to you.

目前沒有其他問題。喬加利先生，我把電話轉回給您。

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you all for joining us today. Please reach out to Investor Relations if you have any follow-ups. I look forward to hearing back from you.

是的。謝謝。感謝大家今天的參與。如果您有任何後續事宜，請聯絡投資者關係部。我期待您的回覆。