Zions Bancorporation NA (ZIONP) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the Zions Bancorp earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce you to your host, Shannon Drage, Director of Investor Relations. Thank you, Shannon. You may begin.

您好，歡迎參加 Zions Bancorp 收益電話會議。（操作員指示）提醒一下，本次會議正在錄音。現在我很高興向你們介紹主持人、投資者關係總監 Shannon Drage。謝謝你，香農。你可以開始了。

Thank you, Alicia, and good evening, everyone. Welcome to our conference call to discuss the second-quarter earnings for 2025. My name is Shannon Drage, Senior Director of Investor Relations. I would like to remind you that during this call, we will be making forward-looking statements. Please note that actual results may differ materially.

謝謝你，艾莉西亞，大家晚上好。歡迎參加我們的電話會議，討論 2025 年第二季的收益。我叫 Shannon Drage，是投資者關係資深總監。我想提醒您，在本次電話會議中，我們將做出前瞻性陳述。請注意，實際結果可能會有重大差異。

We encourage you to review the disclaimer in our press release or slide 2 of the presentation, dealing with forward-looking information and the presentation of non-GAAP measures, which applies equally to statements made during this call. A copy of the earnings release as well as the presentation are available at zionsbancorporation.com.

我們鼓勵您查看我們的新聞稿或簡報的第二張投影片中的免責聲明，其中涉及前瞻性資訊和非公認會計準則指標的呈現，這些內容同樣適用於本次電話會議期間的聲明。收益報告和簡報的副本可在 zionsbancorporation.com 上取得。

For our agenda today, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Harris Simmons, will provide opening remarks. Following Harris' comments, Ryan Richards, our Chief Financial Officer, will review our financial results. Also with us today are Scott McLean, President and Chief Operating Officer; Derek Steward, Chief Credit Officer; and Chris Kyriakakis, Chief Risk Officer. After our prepared remarks, we will hold a question-and-answer session. This call is scheduled for one hour.

在我們今天的議程中，董事長兼執行長哈里斯·西蒙斯將致開幕詞。根據哈里斯的評論，我們的財務長瑞安理查茲將審查我們的財務結果。今天與我們一起出席的還有總裁兼營運長 Scott McLean、首席信貸長 Derek Steward 和首席風險長 Chris Kyriakakis。在我們準備好的發言之後，我們將舉行問答環節。此次通話預計可持續一小時。

I'll now turn the time over to Harris Simmons.

現在我將時間交給哈里斯·西蒙斯。

Thanks very much, Shannon, and good evening, everyone. As you've seen, we reported second-quarter net earnings of $243 million, which reflects a 28% improvement over the prior year period. We're pleased with the momentum in core earnings, which includes continued expansion of a net interest margin, customer fee growth and well-managed expenses.

非常感謝，香農，大家晚上好。如您所見，我們報告第二季淨收益為 2.43 億美元，比去年同期成長了 28%。我們對核心獲利的成長動能感到滿意，其中包括淨利差的持續擴大、客戶費用的成長以及管理良好的費用。

While we see some signs of economic slowing, the magnitude and imminence of tariff-related risks noted in our first-quarter call feel like they've abated somewhat. As a result, we are incrementally more sanguine about potential growth in our outlook, which Ryan will elaborate on in his remarks.

雖然我們看到一些經濟放緩的跡象，但我們在第一季電話會議上指出的關稅相關風險的規模和緊迫性似乎有所減弱。因此，我們對未來的潛在成長更加樂觀，Ryan 將在他的演講中對此進行詳細闡述。

We continue to focus on growing customers and customer relationships with a particular emphasis on small business banking that brings with it the kinds of deposits and ancillary services that we find to be very valuable and to build strong relationships.

我們繼續專注於發展客戶和客戶關係，特別強調小型企業銀行業務，它帶來了我們認為非常有價值的存款和輔助服務，並有助於建立牢固的關係。

For example, our effort to grow loans made through the SBA 7(a) program has led to a 91% increase in the number of deals booked in the first nine months of the SBA's 2025 fiscal year relative to the same period last year.

例如，我們努力透過 SBA 7(a) 計畫增加貸款，這使得 SBA 2025 財年前九個月的交易數量與去年同期相比增加了 91%。

In mid-May, we began the rollout of our consumer gold account offering in the Nevada market, and we'll be launching the product in other markets later this quarter. This product provides customers with a variety of high-value benefits, is designed for mass affluent market and pairs well with our existing wealth offerings, which are also tailored to clients beginning kind of in the mass affluent stage of wealth accumulation. We're really pleased by the enthusiastic response we've seen so far from customers in the matter with respect to this offering.

五月中旬，我們開始在內華達州市場推出消費者黃金帳戶服務，並將於本季稍後在其他市場推出產品。本產品為顧客提供各種高價值的福利，專為大眾富裕市場而設計，與我們現有的財富產品完美搭配，也適合處於財富累積大眾富裕階段的顧客。到目前為止，我們看到客戶對這項服務的熱烈反應，對此我們感到非常高興。

Through -- it was launched May 12 and through early July, we had a 78% increase in sales of this product versus the product [in its] predecessor with average balances in these accounts of around $30,000. So -- and this is before we really started in late June to do paid marketing. So we're really excited about the prospects for this as we roll this out across the entire enterprise.

通過 - 它於 5 月 12 日推出，到 7 月初，該產品的銷售額與前代產品相比增長了 78%，這些帳戶的平均餘額約為 30,000 美元。所以——這是在我們六月底真正開始進行付費行銷之前。因此，當我們在整個企業推廣這項技術時，我們對其前景感到非常興奮。

Turning now to key financial metrics for the quarter. Slide 3 presents the net earnings for the quarter of $243 million as noted, up 28% from the same period last year and up 44% compared to the first quarter. The efficiency ratio improved to 62.2%, the net interest margin continued to increase for the sixth consecutive quarter to 3.17% due to lower funding costs and the benefit from an improved earning asset mix and fixed rate asset repricing. Net loan losses for the quarter were $10 million or 7 basis points annualized.

現在來談談本季的關鍵財務指標。投影片 3 顯示本季淨收益為 2.43 億美元，比去年同期成長 28%，比第一季成長 44%。效率比率提高至62.2%，由於融資成本降低以及受益於生息資產組合改善和固定利率資產重新定價，淨息差連續第六個季度繼續增加至3.17%。本季淨貸款損失為 1,000 萬美元，折合成年率為 7 個基點。

Average customer deposits in the second quarter were up 0.5% relative to last year's number and down 1.4% annualized on a linked quarter basis. Noninterest-bearing deposits reflect continued stability at 34% of total deposits. Average loans experienced modest growth of 5.6% on an annualized linked quarter basis and were up 3.7% year over year.

第二季平均客戶存款較去年同期成長 0.5%，以環比年率計算下降 1.4%。無利息存款佔總存款的比例持續保持穩定，為34%。平均貸款較上季年化成長率為 5.6%，較去年同期成長 3.7%。

Moving to slide 4. Diluted earnings per share was $1.63 compared to $1.13 in the prior period and $1.28 in the year ago period. This quarter's results include a $0.05 per share benefit related to the successful public offering of an investment in our SBIC portfolio. This investment net of fees will be mark-to-market until our shares, which are subject to a minimum 180-day lockup period from the IPO are fully divested.

移至幻燈片 4。每股攤薄收益為 1.63 美元，而上一期間為 1.13 美元，去年同期為 1.28 美元。本季度的業績包括與我們 SBIC 投資組合成功公開發行相關的每股 0.05 美元的收益。扣除費用後的這筆投資將以市價計價，直到我們的股票（從 IPO 開始至少有 180 天的鎖定期）完全出售為止。

Slide 5 provides a five quarter view of pre-provision net revenue. On an adjusted basis, our second quarter results of $316 million reflect an improvement of 18% compared to the prior quarter and 14% compared to the prior year period as revenue growth has outpaced expense growth. With that high-level overview, I'll turn the time over to our Chief Financial Officer, Ryan Richards for additional details related to our performance. Ryan?

投影片 5 提供了撥備前五個季度的淨收入狀況。經過調整後，我們第二季度的業績為 3.16 億美元，與上一季相比增長了 18%，與去年同期相比增長了 14%，因為收入增長超過了支出增長。有了這一高層概述，我將把時間交給我們的財務長瑞安·理查茲 (Ryan Richards)，以提供有關我們業績的更多詳細資訊。瑞安？

Thank you, Harris, and good evening, everyone. I'll begin by breaking down the drivers behind the changes in pre-provision net revenue. Beginning on slide 6, you will see the five quarter trend for net interest income and net interest margin. Net interest income increased by $51 million or 9% relative to the second quarter of 2024 and increased by $24 million relative to the prior quarter. Increase relative to the prior quarter was supported by lower funding costs and a favorable shift in the composition of average interest-earning assets, reflecting growth in average loans.

謝謝你，哈里斯，大家晚上好。我將首先分析撥備前淨收入變化背後的驅動因素。從第 6 張投影片開始，您將看到淨利息收入和淨利息收益率的五個季度趨勢。淨利息收入較 2024 年第二季增加 5,100 萬美元，增幅 9%，較上一季增加 2,400 萬美元。與上一季相比，這一增長得益於融資成本下降以及平均生息資產組成的有利轉變，反映了平均貸款的增長。

As a result, the net interest margin expanded for the sixth consecutive quarters to 3.17%. Our outlook for net interest income for the second quarter of 2026 is moderately increasing relative to the second quarter of 2025, supported by continued earnings asset remix, growth in loans and deposits and fixed rate asset repricing. Our guidance incorporates [two] 25 basis point Fed fund cuts in the second half of the year, in September and December, respectively, and an additional 25 basis point cut in April 2026.

淨利差連續六季擴大至3.17%。我們對 2026 年第二季淨利息收入的預期相對於 2025 年第二季將適度成長，這得益於持續的獲利資產組合、貸款和存款的成長以及固定利率資產重新定價。我們的指導包括在今年下半年（9 月和 12 月）兩次將聯邦基金利率下調 25 個基點，並在 2026 年 4 月再下調 25 個基點。

Slide 7 presents additional details on changes in the net interest margin. The linked quarter waterfall chart on the left outlines the changes in both rate and volume for key components of the net interest margin. Net interest margin expanded by 7 basis points sequentially from favorable earning asset remix and fixed loan repricing as well as improvement in total funding costs.

幻燈片 7 展示了淨利差變化的更多細節。左側連結的季度瀑布圖概述了淨利差主要組成部分的利率和數量的變化。由於獲利資產組合和固定貸款重新定價有利以及總融資成本改善，淨利差環比擴大 7 個基點。

Against the year ago quarter, the right-hand chart on this slide presents the 19 basis point improvement in the net interest margin, which benefited from the improved cost of deposits as shown on the slide. Moving to noninterest income and revenue on slide 8.

與去年同期相比，此投影片右側的圖表顯示淨利差提高了 19 個基點，這得益於投影片上顯示的存款成本的改善。轉到第 8 張投影片上的非利息收入和收益。

Customer related noninterest income was $164 million for the quarter, an increase of 4% on a linked quarter basis and a 7% increase versus the year ago quarter. Capital markets activity continues to be a major driver for fee income growth with steady growth across most other areas of fee income.

本季客戶相關非利息收入為 1.64 億美元，季增 4%，比去年同期成長 7%。資本市場活動持續成為費用收入成長的主要驅動力，大多數其他領域的費用收入也穩定成長。

The chart on the right side of this page presents both total revenue and adjusted revenue for the five most recent quarters, which were impacted by the factors previously noted for net interest income and customer-related fee income.

本頁右側的圖表顯示了最近五個季度的總收入和調整後收入，這些收入受到先前提到的淨利息收入和客戶相關費用收入因素的影響。

Our outlook for customer-related fee income for the second quarter of 2026 is moderately increasing relative to the second quarter of 2025. The growth is expected to be broad-based and driven by increased customer activity and new client acquisition with capital markets continuing to contribute in an outsized way.

我們對 2026 年第二季客戶相關費用收入的預期相對於 2025 年第二季將適度增加。預計成長將是廣泛的，並受到客戶活動增加和新客戶獲取的推動，而資本市場將繼續做出巨大貢獻。

Slide 9 presents adjusted noninterest expense in the lighter blue bars. Adjusted expenses decreased by $12 million versus the prior year to $521 million. This decrease reflects seasonally higher first-quarter compensation expense and lower technology costs in the second quarter relative to the first.

投影片 9 以淺藍色長條顯示調整後的非利息支出。調整後的費用較前一年減少 1,200 萬美元，至 5.21 億美元。這一下降反映了第一季薪資費用的季節性上升以及第二季度相對於第一季的技術成本下降。

This is partially offset by higher incentive accruals as a result of improved profitability. Against the year ago period, adjusted expenses increased $15 million or 3%, primarily in higher incentive comp accruals previously mentioned.

由於盈利能力提高，激勵金額增加，但部分抵消了這一影響。與去年同期相比，調整後的費用增加了 1500 萬美元，即 3%，主要是因為前面提到的更高的激勵補償應計費用。

Our outlook for adjusted noninterest expense for the second quarter of 2026 is moderately increasing relative to the second quarter of 2025 and continues to reflect expectations of positive operating leverage. The expense outlook considers increased marketing-related costs, continued investments in revenue-generating businesses and pressure on technology costs.

我們對 2026 年第二季調整後非利息支出的預期相對於 2025 年第二季而言將適度增加，並繼續反映對正經營槓桿的預期。費用前景考慮了與行銷相關的成本的增加、對創收業務的持續投資以及技術成本的壓力。

Slide 10 presents the five quarter trend in average loans and deposits. Average loans increased 5.6% annualized over the previous quarter and 3.7% over the year ago period. Total loan yields increased by 2 basis points sequentially.

幻燈片 10 展示了平均貸款和存款的五個季度趨勢。平均貸款較上一季成長 5.6%，較去年同期成長 3.7%。總貸款收益率較上季上升2個基點。

Our outlook for period-end loan balances for the second quarter of 2026 is slightly increasing relative to the second quarter of 2025 and assumes growth will be led by commercial loans. We also acknowledge that there may be upside opportunities to surpass this outlook depending on the outcome of trade policy negotiations.

我們對 2026 年第二季期末貸款餘額的預測相對於 2025 年第二季略有增加，並假設成長將由商業貸款主導。我們也承認，根據貿易政策談判的結果，可能存在超越此前景的上行機會。

Average deposit balances are presented on the right side of this slide. Relative to the prior quarter, total average deposits declined 0.9% due to the seasonal customer deposit outflows early in the quarter in addition to an 8% decline in average broker deposits.

平均存款餘額顯示在本投影片的右側。與上一季相比，由於本季初季節性客戶存款流出以及平均經紀人存款下降 8%，總平均存款下降了 0.9%。

Average noninterest rate deposits grew approximately $480 million or 2% compared to the prior quarter, partially as a result of the migration of a consumer interest-bearing product into a new noninterest-bearing product in mid-May at our Nevada affiliate that Harris mentioned previously. [Cost] to total deposits declined sequentially by 8 basis points to 1.68%.

平均非息存款較上一季成長約4.8億美元，增幅2%，部分原因是哈里斯先前提到的內華達州關聯公司在5月中旬將消費者計息產品遷移至新的非計息產品。總存款成本率較上季下降8個基點，至1.68%。

On average, the rate on interest-bearing deposits was 2.52% for the quarter compared to 2.61% in the prior period. Further opportunities to reduce deposit costs will depend on the timing and speed of short-term benchmark rate changes, growth in customer deposits and market competition and deposit behavior.

平均而言，本季計息存款利率為 2.52%，而上一期為 2.61%。進一步降低存款成本的機會將取決於短期基準利率變化的時機和速度、客戶存款的成長以及市場競爭和存款行為。

Slide 11 provides additional details on funding sources and total funding cost trends. Presented on the left are ending deposit balances, which decreased by $1.9 billion versus the prior quarter, including an $837 million decrease in brokered time deposits that was partially offset by a $621 million increase in noninterest-bearing deposits.

投影片 11 提供了有關資金來源和總融資成本趨勢的更多詳細資訊。左側顯示的是期末存款餘額，與上一季相比減少了 19 億美元，其中經紀定期存款減少了 8.37 億美元，但被無息存款增加 6.21 億美元部分抵消。

Short-term FHLB advances increased during the quarter due to loan demand and the aforementioned deposit clients. On the right side, average balances for our key funding categories are shown along with total funding costs. As seen on this chart, our total funding costs declined by 4 basis points during the quarter to 1.97%.

由於貸款需求和上述存款客戶，本季短期 FHLB 貸款有所增加。右側顯示了我們主要融資類別的平均餘額以及總融資成本。從該圖可以看出，本季我們的總融資成本下降了 4 個基點，至 1.97%。

Moving to slide 12. Our investment portfolio exists primarily to be a storehouse of funds to absorb customer-driven balance sheet changes, allowing for deep liquidity through the repo market. Presented here are securities and money market portfolios over the last five quarters.

移至投影片 12。我們的投資組合主要作為資金倉庫，吸收客戶驅動的資產負債表變化，進而透過回購市場實現深度流動性。這裡展示的是過去五個季度的證券和貨幣市場投資組合。

Maturities, principal amortization and prepayment related cash flows from our securities portfolio were $726 million in the quarter or $427 million when considering a net of reinvestment. Pay down and reinvestment of lower-yielding securities continues to contribute to the favorable remix of our earning assets.

本季度，我們證券投資組合的到期、本金攤銷和預付款相關現金流為 7.26 億美元，如果考慮淨再投資，則為 4.27 億美元。償還和再投資低收益證券繼續促進我們的獲利資產的良好重組。

The duration of our investment securities portfolio, which is a measure of price sensitivity to changes in interest rates, is estimated at 3.8 years. We begin our discussion of credit quality on slide 13. Realized net charge-offs in the portfolio continue to be very manageable at $10 million this quarter, or 7 basis points annualized.

我們的投資證券組合的久期（衡量價格對利率變化的敏感度）估計為 3.8 年。我們從第 13 張投影片開始討論信用品質。本季投資組合的已實現淨沖銷額仍然非常可控，為 1,000 萬美元，或年化 7 個基點。

Nonperforming assets remained low at 0.51% of loans and other real estate owned. Classified loan balances declined quarter-over-quarter by $194 million driven by a $196 million reduction in CRE classified levels from improving leasing activity and cash flows, re margins and payoffs.

不良資產仍處於較低水平，佔貸款和其他房地產的 0.51%。由於租賃活動和現金流量、再利潤和還款額的改善導致 CRE 分類貸款餘額減少 1.96 億美元，分類貸款餘額將比去年同期下降 1.94 億美元。

We expect the CRE classified balances will continue to decline going forward through payoffs and upgrades. During the second quarter, we recorded a negative $1 million provision for credit losses, which when combined with net charge-offs, reduced the allowance for credit losses by $11 million relative to the prior quarter. \

我們預計，透過還款和升級，CRE 分類餘額未來將繼續下降。在第二季度，我們記錄了 100 萬美元的負信用損失準備金，與淨沖銷相結合，信用損失準備金較上一季減少了 1,100 萬美元。\

Reduction reflects reduced emphasis on certain portfolio specific risks such as commercial real estate and changes in portfolio mix, offset somewhat by the change in economic forecast. The allowance for credit losses as a percentage of loans and leases declined to 1.2%, and the loan loss allowance coverage with respect to nonaccrual loans was 224%.

減少反映了對某些投資組合特定風險（如商業房地產）的重視程度降低以及投資組合結構的變化，但在一定程度上被經濟預測的變化所抵消。信貸損失準備金佔貸款及租賃的比例下降至1.2%，非應計貸款的貸款損失準備覆蓋率為224%。

Slide 14 provides an overview of the $13.6 billion CRE portfolio, which represents 22% of total loan balances. Notably, this portfolio continues to maintain low levels of nonaccruals, delinquencies and net charge-offs. The portfolio is granular and well diversified by property type and location, with its growth carefully managed for over a decade through disciplined concentration limits.

投影片 14 概述了 136 億美元的 CRE 投資組合，佔總貸款餘額的 22%。值得注意的是，該投資組合持續維持低水準的不提列、拖欠和淨沖銷。該投資組合按資產類型和位置細分且多樣化，十多年來透過嚴格的集中限制精心管理其成長。

Slide 15 provides a detailed view of the problem loans in our CRE portfolio. The chart on the right-hand side provides a breakout of which sub-portfolios drove changes in criticized and classified assets during the quarter. The decrease in total classified loans was driven by commercial real estate, primarily in multifamily due to the factors mentioned previously.

投影片 15 詳細介紹了我們的 CRE 投資組合中的問題貸款。右側的圖表提供了本季哪些子投資組合推動了受批評和分類資產的變化。由於前面提到的因素，商業房地產（主要是多戶住宅）是導致分類貸款總額下降的原因。

The chart on the bottom left-hand side of the slide reflects the LTV distribution of classified CRE loans. With approximately half of those classified loans having LTVs, loan to values less than 60% when calculated using either recent appraisal or index adjusted values.

投影片左下方的圖表反映了分類 CRE 貸款的 LTV 分佈。大約有一半的分類貸款的 LTV 值，以最近的評估或指數調整值計算，貸款價值比低於 60%。

Overall, we continue to expect the CRE portfolio to perform well with limited losses. Based on the current economic outlook, the types of problems being experienced by borrowers relatively low loan-to-value ratios and continued sponsor support.

總體而言，我們仍然預期 CRE 投資組合將表現良好且損失有限。根據當前的經濟前景，借款人所遇到的問題類型相對較低，貸款價值比率以及持續的贊助商支持。

Our loss-absorbing capital is shown on slide 16. The Common Equity Tier 1 ratio this quarter was 11%. This, when combined with the allowance for credit losses compares well to our risk profile as reflected in top quartile performance for loan losses.

我們的損失吸收資本如投影片 16 所示。本季普通股一級資本適足率為11%。這與信貸損失準備金相結合，與我們的風險狀況相符，這反映在貸款損失的最高四分位數表現中。

We expect our common equity from both a regulatory and GAAP perspective to continue increasing organically through earnings and that AOCI improvement will continue through unrealized loss accretion in the securities portfolio as individual securities pay down and mature. Importantly, our organic earnings growth when coupled with AOCI improvement has enabled us to grow tangible book value per share by 20% versus the prior period.

我們預計，從監管和 GAAP 的角度來看，我們的普通股將繼續透過收益有機增長，並且隨著單一證券的償還和到期，AOCI 的改善將透過證券投資組合中未實現損失的累積而繼續。重要的是，我們的有機獲利成長加上 AOCI 改善使我們的每股有形帳面價值較上一時期成長了 20%。

Slide 17 summarizes the financial outlook provided over the course of our prepared remarks for the second quarter of 2026 as compared to the second quarter of 2025. Our outlook represents our best estimate of financial performance based on the current information, and we expect to continue to produce positive operating leverage as revenue growth outpaces noninterest expense growth.

投影片 17 總結了我們在準備好的評論中提供的 2026 年第二季與 2025 年第二季相比的財務前景。我們的展望代表了我們根據當前資訊對財務表現的最佳估計，並且我們預計隨著收入增長超過非利息支出增長，將繼續產生正的經營槓桿。

This concludes our prepared remarks. As we move to the question-and-answer section of the call, we request that you limit your questions to one primary and one follow-up question to enable other participants to ask questions. Alicia, please open the line for questions.

我們的準備好的演講到此結束。當我們進入電話會議的問答環節時，我們要求您將問題限制為一個主要問題和一個後續問題，以便其他參與者可以提問。艾莉西亞，請打開熱線來回答問題。

Thank you. (Operator Instructions) Manan Gosalia, Morgan Stanley.

謝謝。（操作員指令）Manan Gosalia，摩根士丹利。

Hi, good afternoon all.

大家下午好。

Hi.

你好。

Harris, I was wondering, what are you hearing from clients in the small business and middle market side? You sound a lot more positive versus last quarter. Is it just the lower uncertainty in the macro environment that's driving that? Or are you seeing something more that's driving that change?

哈里斯，我想知道，您從小型企業和中型市場的客戶那裡聽到了什麼？與上一季相比，您的態度聽起來積極得多。只是宏觀環境的不確定性降低導致了這種情況嗎？或者您看到了推動這項變化的更多因素？

No, I think so. I think when we last spoke, it looked like this -- we're going to have this wall of tariffs coming at the entire economy, kind of like a tidal wave. And I think that what we've seen over the last 90 days has been a willingness on the part of the administration to be more flexible.

不，我認為是這樣。我想，我們上次談話時，情況是這樣的——我們將面臨一道關稅壁壘，像海嘯一樣衝擊整個經濟。我認為，過去 90 天來我們看到政府方面展現了更靈活的意願。

They've -- the ball keeps kind of moving around the court a little bit in terms of what any -- I don't know if there's still a lot of certainty as to where it lands. But it's become, I think, a little more clear that, that they are trying to kind of thread a needle here and do this without duly disrupting the economy.

他們——球在球場上不停地移動——我不知道它落在哪裡是否還有很大的確定性。但我認為，現在越來越清楚的是，他們正試圖在這裡穿針引線，但又不會對經濟造成太大的破壞。

I think they're sensitive to markets. And so we went out and actually we surveyed a lot of small businesses early on. And I found that while just over half thought that this was going to be -- tariffs were going to be problematic. We also saw that there were number of businesses -- smaller businesses who actually saw opportunity in it. And as we kind of dig into the portfolio, we're seeing some of that. It's not -- there are some businesses being hurt, but there are others that are actually being helped by this.

我認為他們對市場很敏感。因此，我們很早就出去調查了很多小企業。我發現，雖然超過一半的人認為關稅將會帶來問題。我們也發現，許多企業——小型企業——實際上看到了其中的機會。當我們深入研究投資組合時，我們看到了其中的一些情況。事實並非如此——有些企業受到了損害，但其他企業實際上卻從中受益。

And the economy seems to be weathering this in better shape than I think we might have anticipated a quarter ago. So that leads us to believe that probably I think it's going to be better than we expected when we talked about this after the first quarter.

我認為，經濟狀況似乎比我們一個季度前預期的要好。因此，這讓我們相信，我認為情況可能會比我們在第一季後談論這個問題時預期的要好。

Got it. And then maybe on the other side of the balance sheet, on the deposit side, are you seeing any elevated competition? I mean it looks like the spot rate is lower than the average. It looks like things are moving the right way. But with more banks talking about loan growth improving, are you seeing any early signs of higher competition?

知道了。那麼，也許在資產負債表的另一邊，在存款方面，您是否看到競爭加劇了？我的意思是，現貨匯率看起來低於平均值。看起來事情正在朝著正確的方向發展。但是，隨著越來越多的銀行談論貸款成長改善，您是否看到競爭加劇的早期跡象？

I think it's been a really competitive market for deposits. And the challenge is always kind of trying to find the sweet spot between trying to protect your margin, but you're also trying to make sure that your deposit base remains intact and growing.

我認為存款市場競爭非常激烈。而挑戰始終在於試圖在保護利潤率和確保存款基礎保持完整併不斷增長之間找到一個最佳平衡點。

And so we're trying to walk that line. But I think we paid particular attention to the total funding cost -- cost of funding the balance sheet, and that's continued to come down in a nice way. It's down roughly 40 basis points over the last year.

因此，我們正在努力走這條路。但我認為我們特別關注總融資成本——資產負債表的融資成本，而且這筆成本持續以良好的方式下降。去年，該利率下降了約 40 個基點。

And that's how we'll continue to look at it, but we're certainly working hard on the deposit front. So I mentioned this consumer deposit effort, which I'm enthusiastic about it. It's too early to know kind of what that can bring, but I think it represents a foray into the consumer market that has been probably less on our priority list in years past than it's becoming today. And we think that incrementally, there is opportunity there as there is with small businesses. So that's where we're working at it primarily, and I expect we'll continue to see progress there.

我們會繼續這樣看待這個問題，但我們肯定會在存款方面努力工作。所以我提到了這個消費者存款計劃，我對此很熱心。現在還無法知道這會帶來什麼，但我認為這代表著我們進入消費市場，而過去幾年，消費市場可能不太受我們的重視，但現在，這個市場已經成為我們的首要任務。我們認為，從長遠來看，那裡存在著小企業所特有的機會。這就是我們主要努力的方向，我希望我們能繼續看到進展。

So are you saying that deposit costs should come down a little bit or total funding cost should come down a little bit from -- even without Fed rate cuts?

那麼，您是說，即使聯準會不降息，存款成本也應該下降一點，或者總融資成本也應該下降一點嗎？

Well, obviously, it's all going to be dependent on what the Fed does. If they remain static, it could get stickier, but we still have repricing going on in -- on the asset side of the balance sheet that should give us some boost.

嗯，顯然，這一切都取決於聯準會的行動。如果它們保持不變，情況可能會變得更加棘手，但我們仍在進行重新定價——在資產負債表的資產方面，這應該會給我們帶來一些提振。

So I'm not going to suggest that this number can continue to just come down. If you look at our total deposit costs, we're already sort of tend to be better than the industry. And so I'm not sure there's a lot of additional room there. I think probably the greatest room is going to be on the asset side.

所以我並不是說這個數字會繼續下降。如果你看一下我們的總存款成本，你會發現我們已經比業界表現更好了。所以我不確定那裡是否還有許多額外的空間。我認為最大的潛力可能在資產方面。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

Yeah.

是的。

Thank you. Bernard von-Gizycki, Deutsche Bank.

謝謝。伯納德‧馮‧吉茲茨基，德意志銀行。

Hi, guys, good afternoon. Just on loan growth, it looks like it was really solid in the quarter led by C&I, some term financing in CRE and mortgage from consumer. Just any color you can provide on the increase in loan growth and where you expect to continue from here?

大家好，下午好。僅從貸款成長來看，本季貸款成長確實非常穩健，主要由商業和工業貸款、商業房地產中的一些定期融資以及消費者抵押貸款所帶動。您能否提供有關貸款成長情況的任何資訊以及您預計未來貸款成長情況如何？

Derek, you have anything else?

德瑞克，你還有其他事嗎？

Thank you, good afternoon. Yeah, so we had nice loan growth for the quarter of about $891 million. As you indicated, the majority of it was from commercial and industrial. What we saw during the quarter was probably about half of it was from just increased utilization as well as newer -- and the other half from new originations, some nice new originations on the commercial and industrial side. CRE was up slightly, but not very much. We are seeing increased activity though, in the commercial real estate space for new origination volume.

謝謝，下午好。是的，本季我們的貸款成長良好，約 8.91 億美元。正如您所說，其中大部分來自商業和工業。我們在本季看到的情況是，其中大約一半來自利用率的提高以及更新——另一半來自新發起，一些商業和工業方面的不錯的新發起。CRE 略有上升，但幅度不大。不過，我們看到商業房地產領域的新發起量正在增加。

The consumer side, mortgage was up about $120 million and home equity was up $114 million. Both -- mortgage was just new origination activity as well as some loans continuing to move from our onetime closed construction book into the mortgage book.

在消費者方面，抵押貸款增加了約 1.2 億美元，房屋淨值增加了 1.14 億美元。兩者——抵押貸款只是新的發起活動，而一些貸款則繼續從我們曾經關閉的建築帳簿轉移到抵押貸款帳簿。

And then originations on the home equity side, combined with some increased utilization there. So I would anticipate that, that will continue in the near future as we continue to have a number of initiatives around small business as well as commercial and industrial and again, the increased activity that we're starting to see in commercial real estate.

然後是房屋淨值方面的起源，以及那裡利用率的增加。因此，我預計這種情況在不久的將來還會繼續下去，因為我們將繼續圍繞小型企業以及商業和工業採取一系列舉措，而且我們開始看到商業房地產領域的活動有所增加。

Bernard, this is Ryan. One of the views that we brought this quarter that we sometimes have in our travel decks is a view of where the growth is coming from across our affiliates. So I would just point you to slide 23 in the materials (inaudible) growth we're seeing sort of when the Zions market, the California Bank of Trust and Amegy, we're seeing a lot of growth with the top line growth coming out of commercial, as you noted. And that is certainly what we expect to grow (inaudible)

伯納德，這是瑞安。我們本季提出的觀點之一（有時在我們的旅遊簡報中提到）是關於我們附屬公司的成長來自哪裡。因此，我只想指出第 23 張幻燈片中材料（聽不清）的增長情況，正如您所說，我們看到了 Zions 市場、加州信託銀行和 Amegy 的大量增長，其中營業收入增長來自商業。這當然也是我們期望的成長（聽不清楚）

Okay. Got it. And then just for a follow-up on just the regulation. [Bowman] has laid out a number of items that likely need to be dialed back and we'll likely see an overall easing of the regulatory framework. Can you just talk to any specific items that could be beneficial for Zion?

好的。知道了。接下來是關於監管的後續問題。 [鮑曼]列出了一些可能需要縮減的條款，我們可能會看到監管框架的整體放鬆。能具體談談對錫安有益的事嗎？

Obviously, tiering is an area that could be beneficial. The $100 billion asset threshold has moved to $130 billion or so or to $250 billion. But just wanted to hear your thoughts if this could lead to more willingness to pursue M&A. Obviously, I understand your focus on more organic growth. Maybe it's just a benefit to the industry that could still obviously be some benefit to your bank. Just any thoughts here would be great.

顯然，分層是一個可以帶來益處的領域。1000億美元的資產門檻已經上升到1300億美元左右，甚至2500億美元。但只是想聽聽您的想法，這是否會促使人們更願意進行併購。顯然，我理解您對更有機成長的關注。也許這對產業來說只是一種好處，但顯然對你的銀行來說也有一些好處。只要有這樣的想法就太好了。

This is Harris. From my perspective, probably the most encouraging thing is the tiering you're talking about. And the -- of all the proposals that have been out there, Basel III end game, et cetera, the long-term debt requirement was probably -- was going to maybe have the biggest impact.

這是哈里斯。從我的角度來看，最令人鼓舞的事情可能就是您談論的分層。在所有已經提出的提案中，《巴塞爾協議 III》的最終結果等等，長期債務要求可能會產生最大的影響。

And just because of spreads on that for a regional bank or substantial relative to alternative funding costs. And so having that if not off the table, at least back on the back burner and probably subject to a lot of additional thought about tiering is maybe the most encouraging thing that I see in the landscape.

這只是因為區域性銀行的利差相對於替代融資成本而言相當可觀。因此，如果不將其排除在外，至少將其放在次要位置，並且可能需要對分層進行大量額外的思考，這可能是我目前看到的最令人鼓舞的事情。

As for M&A, I'd just point anybody to -- in my shareholder letter that was published in February. So on Pages 13 and 14, I do a little treatise there on M&A. And I simply point anybody there. It's very consistent with how I think we're going to think about it. We don't think that we need to grow for growth's sake.

至於併購，我只是想向大家指出──我在二月發表的致股東信中提到了這一點。因此，在第 13 和 14 頁，我做了一些有關併購的小論文。我只是把任何人指向那裡。這與我的想法非常一致。我們不認為我們需要為了成長而成長。

There are going to be occasions. We demonstrated the deal we did last quarter down in the Coachella Valley, Southern California, kind of a tuck-in deal that is really a nice fit for us. It gives us a really nice market presence in a great market.

總是會有這樣的場合。我們展示了上個季度在南加州科切拉谷達成的交易，這是一個非常適合我們的附加交易。它使我們在一個龐大的市場中佔據了非常好的地位。

And so I think we think strategically about it, but not strategically in terms of, hey, we just got to get bigger at any cost. So for more go to my SA.

所以我認為我們會從戰略角度來考慮這個問題，但戰略角度並不是說我們必須不惜一切代價擴大規模。如需了解更多信息，請聯繫我的 SA。

Okay, great. Thanks for taking my question.

好的，太好了。感謝您回答我的問題。

Thank you. John Pancari, Evercore ISI.

謝謝。約翰潘卡里 (John Pancari)，Evercore ISI。

Good afternoon.

午安.

Hi, John.

你好，約翰。

I guess just on the expense side, I know you're still targeting -- you indicated that your expense outlook does imply confidence in driving positive operating leverage. I wanted to see if you can maybe help us frame the degree of positive operating leverage that you think is reasonable, given your growth opportunities in front of you, but also the investments? And if you do see a greater degree of revenue pressure, then you currently include in the guidance, do you still have confidence in the ability to achieve positive operating leverage just given the expense flex?

我想僅在費用方面，我知道您仍在瞄準——您表示您的費用前景確實意味著對推動正向經營槓桿的信心。我想看看您是否可以幫助我們確定您認為合理的正向經營槓桿程度，考慮到您面臨的成長機會以及投資？如果您確實看到更大程度的收入壓力，那麼您目前在指導中包括，考慮到費用彈性，您是否仍然有信心實現正向營運槓桿的能力？

Hey John, thanks for that. Pretty good question. And yes, we updated some of the guidance there looking forward for the quarter, and it wouldn't be immediately obvious just on the words that we choose that the positive operating leverage would be there. I would reaffirm that we see it. We sort of size it in the 100 to 200 basis points.

嘿，約翰，謝謝你。非常好的問題。是的，我們更新了本季的一些展望，但僅從我們選擇的措辭來看，並不會立即明顯看出積極的經營槓桿將會存在。我想重申，我們看到了這一點。我們將其規模定在 100 到 200 個基點之間。

So -- and we -- there's a litany of things that do internally to make sure that we stay focused on the expense side. I don't think that's ever going to change. I think when we came into this year with more of a growth orientation, kind of turning the page, putting more money into marketing dollars, putting more money into revenue producers.

因此，我們內部做了一系列工作，以確保我們始終專注於費用方面。我認為這種情況永遠不會改變。我認為，當我們進入今年時，我們更加重視成長，翻開新的一頁，將更多的資金投入行銷中，將更多的資金投入創收中。

And so that's the pull-through you're going to see on the revenue side. It's really hard for us to exactly project but we're going to get loan growth, but we're a little bit more upbeat, as Harris alluded to before. So if you sort of think about the breadth of what some of the words we use suggest you think about being on the higher end of that range for the revenue pieces and maybe at the lower end for the expense piece of line for some operating leverage.

這就是您將在收入方面看到的拉動動作。對我們來說，準確預測確實很難，但我們會實現貸款成長，但正如哈里斯之前提到的那樣，我們會更加樂觀。因此，如果您考慮我們使用的某些字詞的含義，建議您考慮將收入部分置於該範圍的高端，而將費用部分置於該範圍的低端，以獲得一些經營槓桿。

I'd just add one of the things I'm really encouraged by is we have either hired or have offers out to at least 10 really good producers like I have on my desk or have been sent -- just at this in the last couple of weeks. And not that we're going to tell us be working at that pace, but we're finding some really good people through disruption in other places are looking for good home. And so where we're going to see increases, I think, are going to be in what I think of as good expense, which is it's not compliance, regulatory, back office.

我想補充的是，真正讓我感到鼓舞的是，我們已經聘用了至少 10 名非常優秀的製作人，或者向他們發出了邀請，就像我辦公桌上擺著的或者已經收到的一樣——就在過去幾周里。我們不是要告訴我們要以這樣的速度工作，而是我們發現一些真正優秀的人透過其他地方的混亂正在尋找好的歸宿。因此，我認為，我們將會看到成長的將是我認為好的支出，而不是合規、監管、後台辦公室。

It's actually people who are actually really good revenue producers. And so that and some increased marketing spend. I mentioned a couple of initiatives we have going in small business, consumer that I think can be really meaningful for us, but it's going to take some marketing to get there. And so those are kind of places where we're going to see spend. It doesn't always produce revenue day one about -- it should kind of pretty quickly turn into revenue.

這些人其實確實是優秀的收入創造者。因此，行銷支出也增加了。我提到了我們在小型企業和消費者領域開展的一些舉措，我認為這些舉措對我們來說非常有意義，但需要一些行銷才能實現。這些就是我們將會看到支出的地方。它並不總是在第一天就產生收入——它應該很快就會轉化為收入。

If you look at the momentum in our reported results for this quarter on a year-over-year basis, the 9% growth in net interest income, the 7% growth in customer fees year-over-year, that's just illustrative of kind of where we've been heading on the revenue side of the business.

如果您看一下我們本季報告的業績與去年同期相比的勢頭，淨利息收入同比增長 9%，客戶費用同比增長 7%，這只是說明了我們在業務收入方面的發展方向。

And we compare that to the 3% adjusted expense growth year over year, we've been disciplined. So I think just reiterating what Harris said, it would be the good kind of expense growth while also building on our revenue momentum.

我們將其與去年同期 3% 的調整後費用成長率進行比較，我們一直很自律。因此，我認為重申哈里斯所說的話，這將是一種良好的費用成長，同時也能增強我們的收入動能。

John, this is Scott. I would just add, I think you can tell from Ryan and Harris' comment that there's a lot of momentum and energy behind investing in revenue growth in our key segments, products, marketing, et cetera, hiring.

約翰，這是史考特。我想補充一點，我想您可以從瑞安和哈里斯的評論中看出，我們在關鍵領域、產品、行銷、招聘等方面的收入成長投資背後有著巨大的動力和能量。

And so that gives us a lot of confidence about revenue going forward. But the other thing I would point back to is you've heard us talk about for the better part of the last 10 years of just kind of this continuous improvement process that we're always going through.

這讓我們對未來的收入充滿信心。但我想指出的另一件事是，您已經聽到我們談論了過去 10 年中的大部分時間我們一直在經歷的這種持續改進過程。

And we have probably for the expense growth that you see, we have every year about 2% of our base of expenses that we're eliminating through just continuous improvement, how we process documents, how we're using AI.

對於您所看到的費用成長，我們每年大約有 2% 的費用基礎是透過持續改進、改進我們處理文件的方式以及我們使用人工智慧的方式而消除的。

We processed 21,000 W9 forums and signature cards a year. It's kind of in any number, but, oh my god, there's so much expense related to that, and we're finding a great benefit from using AI in a place like that. We have a lot of quality assurance and review functions.

我們每年處理 21,000 個 W9 論壇和簽名卡。它在某種程度上是數字，但是，天哪，這需要花費太多的錢，而我們發現在這樣的地方使用人工智慧會帶來很大的好處。我們有很多品質保證和審查職能。

If you look at our wire transactions, AML, BSA, there's a significant amount of false positives that are created there. And so we're using AI actively there both in the false positives in our wire room and also in AML/BSA. And then, if you just look at our credit processes, a huge area of activity in our company and whether it's loan spreading or credit presentations for renewals or new loans, loan refuse, the whole area of activity there, we're actively pursuing the use of AI to not necessarily.

如果你查看我們的電匯交易、反洗錢法和銀行保密法，你會發現其中有大量誤報。因此，我們在電匯室和 AML/BSA 中積極使用人工智慧來應對誤報。然後，如果你看看我們的信貸流程，我們公司有大量的活動領域，無論是貸款發放還是續貸或新貸款的信貸演示，貸款拒絕，整個活動領域，我們都在積極尋求使用人工智慧。

I mean, in most cases, it will reduce expense, but it will also allow us to redirect the work of those colleagues that are in those areas to higher value work, actually analyzing the data to create more revenue or reduce expense or minimize losses as opposed to just producing the data and then being so exhausted, we don't know what to do with it. So those would just be a few examples of this big bucket of small improvements that we've been about for over a decade now.

我的意思是，在大多數情況下，它會減少開支，但它也會讓我們將這些領域的同事的工作重新定向到更高價值的工作上，實際上是分析數據以創造更多收入或減少開支或減少損失，而不是僅僅生成數據，然後筋疲力盡，我們不知道該如何處理它。這些只是我們十多年來一直在進行的大量小改進中的幾個例子。

Got it. Okay. All right. Thank you all for that detail. And then one quick follow-up. And I know M&A was already asked about. But on the M&A front, I know you mentioned the merits of the smaller Coachella Valley deal that you did?

知道了。好的。好的。謝謝大家提供的詳細資料。然後進行一次快速跟進。我知道已經有人詢問併購問題了。但在併購方面，我知道您提到了您所做的規模較小的科切拉谷交易的優點？

And have you seen -- as you completed that transaction and have you seen the benefit of the new core system in terms of the ability to integrate and close the deal faster and ideally save on costs and achieve potentially higher cost savings through a transaction like that?

您是否看到了——當您完成該交易時，您是否看到了新核心系統的優勢，即能夠更快地整合和完成交易，理想情況下節省成本，並透過這樣的交易實現潛在的更高成本節約？

Yeah, John, this is Scott again. Absolutely. I mean, if you just think about it at 30,000 feet, we had three loan systems, one for consumer, one for commercial, one for real estate, one deposit system, all 40 years old, all customized like crazy.

是的，約翰，我又是史考特。絕對地。我的意思是，如果你站在 30,000 英尺的高度想想，我們有三個貸款系統，一個用於消費者，一個用於商業，一個用於房地產，一個存款系統，所有這些系統都有 40 年的歷史了，而且都是瘋狂定制的。

And every other bank in the country has this, we weren't the only one and dozens, and dozens of data models. So if you just think about that on the one hand and then you think about now, we have one integrated loan and deposit system with one data model and the elimination of all that tech debt that is AI-enabled, cloud-enabled, real-time processing.

全國其他銀行都有這個，我們不是唯一一家，還有幾十個資料模型。因此，如果你只是從一方面考慮這一點，然後再考慮現在，我們有一個整合的貸款和存款系統，具有一個數據模型，並消除了所有支援人工智慧、雲端運算和即時處理的技術債。

And then you think about how do you merge like these branches we just did in the Coachella Valley. I mean there's always complication on the seller side. But on our side, we're merging into a much more clean and modern environment that no one else really has.

然後你想想如何像我們剛剛在科切拉谷所做的那樣合併這些分支。我的意思是賣方方面總是會遇到複雜的情況。但就我們而言，我們正在融入一個其他人都沒有的更乾淨和現代化的環境。

I might just add, it hasn't come up. It might otherwise come up, but there's been obviously a lot of focus on the [Genius Act] and stablecoin, et cetera, tokenized deposits. And this new platform we have, the TCS Bank system is -- I don't know that we're singular this way, but it's probably one of the few cores in the United States, where we're actually settling transactions into the core in real time.

我還要補充一點，它還沒有出現。它可能以其他方式出現，但顯然人們非常關注《天才法案》和穩定幣等代幣化存款。我們擁有的這個新平台，TCS 銀行系統——我不知道我們在這方面是否獨一無二，但它可能是美國為數不多的核心之一，我們實際上可以將交易即時結算到核心中。

And what I think you're seeing with developments with stablecoin, tokenized deposits is that we're coming into a world where a real-time settlement is going to be really important, kind of functionality to have and that's built into what we have. We could define an account type in our core system to custody digital assets, tokenized deposits, stablecoins and [TCS] has a crypto service platform that would allow us to connect to crypto exchanges.

我認為，隨著穩定幣和代幣化存款的發展，我們正在進入一個即時結算非常重要的世界，這是一種內建在我們現有系統中的功能。我們可以在我們的核心系統中定義一種帳戶類型來保管數位資產、代幣化存款、穩定幣，並且 [TCS] 有一個加密服務平台，可以讓我們連接到加密交易所。

So I think a lot of plumbing has been built for however that future folds. And I think it's still too early certainly for us to see how that unfolds out, how it affects a regional bank like us. But I think we'll find that a lot of the investment we've made prepares us well for that world.

因此我認為，無論未來如何，許多管道都已建成。我認為現在還為時過早，我們無法判斷事態將如何發展，以及它將如何影響我們這樣的地區性銀行。但我認為我們會發現，我們所做的大量投資已經為我們應對那個世界做好了充分的準備。

Got it. All right, thank you for that. I appreciate it.

知道了。好的，謝謝你。我很感激。

Yep.

是的。

Thank you. Bill Carcache, Wolf Research.

謝謝。比爾‧卡卡什 (Bill Carcache)，沃爾夫研究公司。

Bill, your line is unmuted. You may be muted on your end.

比爾，你的線路已取消靜音。您的終端可能被靜音了。

Hi, thank you. Good afternoon. As you think about the interplay between ongoing repricing tailwinds and your funding dynamics that you've discussed, is there anything that gets in the way of your NIM getting back to sort of that 3.5% level that we saw pre-COVID, the consensus doesn't have you getting there through 2027. Is that too conservative? Perhaps, any thoughts on the reversion to that sort of pre-covid NIM level?

你好，謝謝。午安.當您思考持續的重新定價順風和您討論過的融資動態之間的相互作用時，有什麼因素阻礙您的 NIM 回到我們在 COVID 之前看到的 3.5% 的水平，共識並不認為您在 2027 年之前就能達到這個水平。這是否太保守了？也許，對於恢復到新冠疫情之前的 NIM 水平，您有什麼想法嗎？

Thanks, Bill. I'll take that in parts. And let me know if we don't get all the way there. I think when we -- you're right to remember us talking about a mid-3 type NIM hopefully having a more constructive yield curve, it's useful in all that as well. But we do have some things working in our favor.

謝謝，比爾。我將分部分來講。如果我們沒有完全到達那裡，請告訴我。我認為當我們——你記得我們談論中間 3 型 NIM 時希望它具有更具建設性的殖利率曲線，它在所有這些方面也很有用。但確實有一些事情對我們有利。

Harris was right, earlier on the call, noting on the deposit side, there's not much more to play through on that side that we're seeing in terms of fixed type of repricing on CD. So that has more or less played out. On the asset side, there are still things that are lagging through on the fixed asset repricing that we see the potential for 2 to 3 basis points just lagging through each quarter on that basis for things that just haven't quite fully manifest.

哈里斯在早些時候的電話會議上說得對，他指出，在存款方面，就我們所看到的 CD 固定類型的重新定價而言，在這方面沒有太多可發揮的空間。事情基本上已經結束了。在資產方面，固定資產重新定價仍然存在一些滯後現象，我們認為每季可能會落後 2 到 3 個基點，因為這些現象還沒有完全顯現出來。

We also make a point to talk about the fact that we've had these cash flow hedges that were discontinued, and it's been a headwind for our NIM over time. But it's been negating an impact. So I think in this quarter, there was a $16 million negative impact associated with that. You can think about that diminishing roughly $2 million per quarter over time until you get basically to the end of 2027. So that's a dimension in that we've always talked about the remix.

我們也特意談到這樣一個事實，即我們已經停止了這些現金流對沖，這對我們的淨利息收益率 (NIM) 造成了長期不利影響。但它一直在抵消影響。因此我認為本季由此產生的負面影響為 1600 萬美元。你可以想像一下，隨著時間的推移，這個數字每季減少約 200 萬美元，直到 2027 年底。這就是我們一直在談論混音的一個方面。

We still have room to run as it relates to the trading out of the rundown of our investment securities portfolio and the beneficial trade that we've had in reinvesting a lot of those dollars into loan growth. So we've said in my prepared remarks, and it's been pretty consistent here for the last few quarters of generating anywhere between $700 million to $800 million worth of cash flows from investment securities portfolio in more recent periods reinvesting about half of that while allowing us to have higher yielding loans come on the balance sheet and/or to pay down borrowing costs.

我們仍有上漲空間，因為它與我們投資證券組合的交易以及將大量資金再投資於貸款成長的有利交易有關。因此，我們在準備好的發言中已經說過，過去幾個季度，我們一直保持穩定，從投資證券組合中產生價值 7 億至 8 億美元的現金流，最近一段時間，我們將其中約一半用於再投資，同時使我們能夠在資產負債表上獲得收益更高的貸款和/或償還借貸成本。

So those are dynamics that we think all kind of work in our favor. To kind of keep pushing forward from here on the backs of six consecutive quarters of NIM expansion with this one being pretty pronounced. So that's what kind of gives us some feelings that we can press forward from this level.

因此，我們認為這些都是對我們有利的動力。在連續六個季度 NIM 擴張（其中這個擴張非常明顯）的支持下，繼續向前推進。所以這給了我們一些感覺，我們可以從這個層面繼續前進。

Thank you. That's helpful. And then, Harris, following up on your gold account comments, can you give a little bit more color on some of the features of that -- what's contributing to its success, how you're thinking about expanding that offering into your other markets?

謝謝。這很有幫助。然後，哈里斯，關於您對黃金帳戶的評論，您能否更詳細地介紹一下它的一些特點——是什麼促成了它的成功，您如何考慮將該產品擴展到其他市場？

Yeah. I mean, some of the features of the account, unlimited ATM, free ATM access, which, by the way, people are using ATMs less and less. And so it becomes -- I mean the cost of giving away something that people are using less becomes easier over time. We have lots of safe deposit box inventories. We're giving people access where we have availability to a free safe deposit box.

是的。我的意思是，該帳戶的一些功能，無限制 ATM，免費 ATM 訪問，順便說一句，人們使用 ATM 越來越少了。因此，隨著時間的推移，免費贈送人們較少使用的東西的成本變得越來越低。我們有大量保險箱庫存。我們為有可用空間的人提供免費保險箱。

Some discounts on consumer loans, some premium on money market accounts, you [kind of get] the idea. It's -- we're really trying to say, hey, we want all of your business and really embrace these customers, it's got a $2,500 minimum balance.

一些消費貸款折扣，一些貨幣市場帳戶溢價，你[有點明白]這個想法。這是——我們真的想說，嘿，我們想要你們所有的業務，並真正擁抱這些客戶，它的最低餘額為 2,500 美元。

It's a noninterest-bearing account. And what we're finding is people who are going -- who will open an account that has a $2,500 minimum balance carry higher -- much higher balances than that. And that's why we think this is going to be a real winner. We'll be rolling it out starting here in mid-September across the rest of the company. That's the current plan.

這是一個無息帳戶。我們發現，開設最低餘額為 2,500 美元的帳戶的人，實際持有的餘額要高得多。這就是我們認為這將是一個真正的勝利的原因。我們將從九月中旬開始在公司其他部門推廣這項措施。這是目前的計劃。

I would just add, there's additional credit card bonuses related to it as well as access to wealth planning capabilities, investment management capabilities and with less friction associated with it.

我只想補充一點，它還有額外的信用卡獎勵以及財富規劃能力、投資管理能力，而且相關的摩擦更少。

Thank you for the details. That's very helpful.

感謝您提供詳細資訊。這非常有幫助。

Yeah.

是的。

Thank you. Ken Houston, Autonomous Research.

謝謝。肯‧休斯頓，自主研究。

Great, thanks guys. Just a couple of more follow-ups on the remix points. On the liability side, you've had a great path towards getting down some of those broker deposits and this quarter, I see a little remixing into FHLB.

太好了，謝謝大家。只需對混音點進行一些後續跟進。在負債方面，您已經很好地減少了部分經紀人存款，而本季度，我看到了一些與 FHLB 的混合。

Can you just kind of give us an update of where your brokerage stand at the end of the quarter? And how much more remixing can you do, especially if the DDA balances look like they've bottomed if not started to increase a little bit? Thanks.

您能否向我們介紹本季末您的經紀業務的最新情況？您還可以進行多少次重新混合，特別是當 DDA 餘額看起來已經觸底甚至開始略有增加時？謝謝。

Yeah. Thanks, Ken. I'm happy to get going on that. Thank you for noting that. It is something that we've been working down. And certainly, the balance on a spot basis was down just over $800 million this quarter. We sort of think about opportunities across broker deposits, think about Federal Home Loan Bank borrowings and think about repos and think about the relative trade-offs between those various funding sources. And this quarter, we saw an opportunity on some of those Federal Home loan advances.

是的。謝謝，肯。我很高興能夠開始做這件事。感謝您注意到這一點。這是我們一直在努力的事情。當然，本季現貨餘額下降了 8 億多美元。我們考慮經紀人存款的機會，考慮聯邦住房貸款銀行的借款，考慮回購，考慮不同資金來源之間的相對權衡。本季度，我們看到了一些聯邦住房貸款預付款的機會。

We used to factor in the stock dividends that we receive as being a member of that, that was more advantageous and useful in helping to work down that balance. So it's something that we're -- it's been part of our calculus that we'll continue to work down, and we've demonstrated an ability to do that.

我們過去常常將作為其中一員所獲得的股票股息考慮在內，這對於幫助解決這一平衡問題更為有利和有用。所以這是我們正在考慮的事情——這是我們將繼續努力的一部分，而且我們已經證明了我們有能力做到這一點。

But of course, our success in doing so will depend a lot on where Harris opened this call and our success in generating net new client relationships and driving through that channel. So that's what -- that's how to respond to your question.

但當然，我們能否成功做到這一點，很大程度上取決於哈里斯在哪裡開啟了這次電話會議，以及我們在建立新客戶關係和推動該管道方面的成功。這就是──這就是你問題的回答。

Got it. And on the loan side, very interesting to see all three of the loan categories yields go up. I know there's obviously a little swap impact on the C&I book, but the CRE and the consumer. So can you help us walk through what that front book back book benefit continues to be and just what's your natural state of just what competition is like got there in terms of spreads? Thanks.

知道了。在貸款方面，非常有趣的是，所有三類貸款的收益率都在上升。我知道掉期交易對 C&I 帳簿顯然有一點影響，但對 CRE 和消費者卻有影響。那麼，您能否幫助我們解釋一下前書和後書的收益是什麼，以及就利差而言，競爭的自然狀態究竟是怎樣的呢？謝謝。

Yeah. I'll get started, and I'll invite my colleagues to jump in as they see fit. From a front book back book perspective, what's coming on is coming on a yield of 7.38% compared to a back book at 7.31%. What you see there, and I think you understand this intuitively, Ken, is there's been a lot of repricing. In the back of our materials, we show the repricing pattern of our earning assets and our loans.

是的。我會開始，並邀請我的同事按照他們的意願加入。從前帳簿和後帳簿的角度來看，前帳簿的收益率為 7.38%，而後帳簿的收益率為 7.31%。肯，您看到的是，而且我認為您直觀地理解了這一點，那就是已經進行了很多重新定價。在我們的材料的背面，我們展示了我們的獲利資產和貸款的重新定價模式。

And you'll see a lot of that reprices within a year, certainly the majority of earning assets, and it's even more pronounced for loans. So that's why you don't see a stark of a difference between the front book and back book.

你會看到很多資產在一年內重新定價，當然大多數生息資產都是如此，而貸款的重新定價則更為明顯。這就是為什麼你看不出前書和後書之間有明顯的區別。

Interesting, we are reaching a point now in the consumer books as you pointed to that, where we had some of those [five, one] arms that are now starting -- that were priced at lower rates that are now starting to remark and reprice to albeit a level that's really helpful to us.

有趣的是，正如您所指出的，我們現在在消費者書籍方面已經達到了一個點，我們有一些[五個，一個]部門現在開始 - 以較低的價格定價，現在開始重新評論和重新定價，儘管這對我們確實有幫助。

And you would also note that even for our commercial book that our terms of our commercial lending typically are not very extended. And we've had some opportunities there that have been really useful in the repricing up of commercial fixed relationships. So those are just a couple of dynamics I would point to that are kind of probably pointing to the pattern that you're seeing in the results, Ken.

而且您還會注意到，即使對於我們的商業帳簿，我們的商業貸款期限通常也不會延長。我們在那裡獲得了一些機會，這些機會對於重新定價商業固定關係確實很有用。所以這些只是我要指出的幾個動態，它們可能指向你在結果中看到的模式，肯。

Okay, great. Thanks a lot, Ryan.

好的，太好了。非常感謝，瑞安。

Thank you. Peter Winter, D.A. Davidson.

謝謝。彼得溫特、D.A.戴維森。

Thanks. Good afternoon. If I look at slide 27, (inaudible) merchant scenario, the hypothetical simulation, it does seem conservative with the assumption of $1.4 billion migration of noninterest-bearing deposits. Maybe could you, Ryan, maybe provide some sensitivity if DDA deposits stabilized, which has kind of been the trend the last few quarters?

謝謝。午安.如果我看投影片 27，（聽不清楚）商人場景，假設的模擬，它似乎確實保守，假設 14 億美元的無息存款轉移。瑞安，如果 DDA 存款穩定下來，你能否提供一些敏感性信息，這在過去幾個季度一直是一種趨勢？

Thanks, Peter. We didn't know if this would go quietly into the night. But as it turns out (laughter) interest in it, which is fine. We actually find it quite interesting for ourselves as a management team but we don't want to force feed people things that they don't really care to consume. So for what that's worth, we'll let you judge how conservative that is.

謝謝，彼得。我們不知道這一切是否會悄悄地持續到深夜。但事實證明（笑聲）對此很感興趣，這很好。作為管理團隊，我們實際上發現這對我們來說非常有趣，但我們不想強迫人們接受他們不真正關心的東西。因此，無論其價值如何，我們都會讓您判斷其保守程度。

I know that people have made those points before. There was a time when that migration assumption was as high as $5 billion. And over time, we've sort of tightened that up. We like some of the stability that we've been seeing over periods in noninterest-bearing deposits.

我知道以前有人提出過這些觀點。曾經有一段時間，移民假設高達 50 億美元。隨著時間的推移，我們已經在某種程度上加強了這一點。我們喜歡無利息存款在一段時間內表現出的穩定性。

I think certainly, the things we're talking about, the gold accounts had a hand in that in the most recent periods. We haven't gone to further lengths of talking about what happens at their zero migration here. We're just -- we're feeding you with an assumption.

我認為，我們談論的事情，黃金帳戶在最近一段時間內確實發揮了作用。我們還沒有進一步討論在零遷移時會發生什麼。我們只是──我們給你一個假設。

We do try to give you some bounce in other places to try to show when you overlay the emergent piece of that kind of getting to more of a forward path view and then putting some book ends at 100 basis points and other ends around that implied rate path, we do show some breadth of that, but I don't have a statistic in front of me that would show what assumption would be at like a $0 billion migration.

我們確實嘗試在其他地方給你一些反彈，試圖展示當你疊加這種新興的部分以獲得更多的前瞻性路徑視圖，然後將一些書末放在 100 個基點，其他書末放在隱含利率路徑周圍時，我們確實展示了它的一些廣度，但我面前沒有一個統計數據可以顯示在 0 億美元遷移時的假設是什麼。

You could -- probably take 1.4 minus 0 times the current short-term (multiple speakers) --

你可以——大概取 1.4 減 0 乘以當前短期（多位發言者）——

Yeah, that's right. You can solve it. You can solve it. Matt may have --

是的，沒錯。你可以解決它。你可以解決它。馬特可能--

This is Matt Tyler, Corporate Treasurer. I think if you just assume to whatever DDA runs off is replaced with funding near -- very close to the Fed funds rate you get your sensitivity that you're looking for.

我是馬特泰勒 (Matt Tyler)，公司財務長。我認為，如果您只是假設 DDA 流失的任何資金都被接近聯邦基金利率的資金所取代，那麼您就會得到您想要的敏感度。

Okay. Got it. And if I can ask just speaking about balance sheet, still asset-sensitive. Could you talk about maybe some of the plans going forward to manage the balance sheet sensitivity. It clearly seems like the next Chairman is likely going to take a more dovish stance on rates?

好的。知道了。如果我可以問的話，只談資產負債表，仍然對資產敏感。您能否談談未來管理資產負債表敏感性的一些計劃？顯然，下一任主席可能會對利率採取更溫和的立場？

Yeah. Thank you for that, Peter. Happy to provide some perspectives there. Listen, we have some materials to talk about where we are with hedges. We try to remain balanced here as balanced as we can and we think we're in a reasonably good place.

是的。謝謝你，彼得。很高興能提供一些觀點。聽著，我們有一些材料可以討論我們在樹籬方面的情況。我們盡力保持平衡，我們認為我們處於一個相當好的位置。

But we do recognize that we screen -- tend to screen on the higher end of asset sensitivity in our peer set. And then we recognize that methodologies can be different and how people think about the deposit assumptions can drive various outcomes there.

但我們確實認識到，我們傾向於在同業中篩選資產敏感度較高的產品。然後我們認識到方法可能不同，人們如何看待存款假設可能會導致不同的結果。

But we also want to be attuned to the net interest income impacts of if there is a more dovish Fed and a downturn there. So it is something we talk about internally. We do think there's probably some room to do a little bit of management to decrease that asset sensitivity at the margin.

但我們也希望關注聯準會採取更溫和的政策以及經濟下滑對淨利息收入的影響。所以這是我們內部討論的事情。我們確實認為可能存在一些空間來做一些管理以降低資產的邊際敏感性。

But we also couple that with considerations about the value considerations and fair value of equity and tangible common equity. And so you've seen over time us pivot and put on more paid fixed hedges on our loans and securities to also protect about -- and to the extent that term rates were to run up on us to make sure that we manage that to a level that we feel is appropriate.

但我們也將這一點與股權和有形普通股的價值考量和公允價值考量結合。因此，隨著時間的推移，您會看到我們不斷調整，對我們的貸款和證券進行更多的付費固定對沖，以保護我們——並且在定期利率上升的範圍內，我們確保將其管理到我們認為合適的水平。

So it's sort of a dual-fold explanation about how we're managing the balance sheet right now.

因此，這可以說是對我們目前如何管理資產負債表的雙重解釋。

Got it. Thanks, Ryan.

知道了。謝謝，瑞安。

Thank you. Chris McGratty, KBW.

謝謝。克里斯·麥格拉蒂，KBW。

Great, thanks for the question. Can you speak about the outlook for your capital markets business, your fee income that you spent a lot of time building. Interested in how that business is progressing relative to expectations and where you think that could be over time? Thanks.

太好了，謝謝你的提問。您能否談談您的資本市場業務的前景，以及您花費大量時間建立的費用收入？您是否想知道該業務相對於預期的進展情況以及您認為隨著時間的推移該業務將如何發展？謝謝。

Sure, Chris. This is Scott McLean. And now the business is growing really nicely for us. Recall that in '23, we had about $81 million in revenue, it grew to $107 million last year, and we're on a good pace this year. And we've said for three years now, as you'll recall, that -- this is a business that we thought we could double in size in a four-year period, five-year period, that kind of range.

當然，克里斯。這是史考特·麥克萊恩。現在我們的業務發展得非常好。回想一下，23 年我們的營收約為 8,100 萬美元，去年成長到 1.07 億美元，今年我們的發展勢頭良好。你們應該還記得，我們​​已經說了三年了，我們認為這項業務的規模可以在四年、五年或類似的時間內翻倍。

And I think we're on our path to doing that. The major contributors, clearly, loan syndications, interest rate risk management, foreign exchange, those have been three businesses we've been in for a long time, and they're continuing to grow at a nice pace, depending on the economic circumstances.

我認為我們正在朝著這個目標前進。顯然，主要的貢獻者是銀團貸款、利率風險管理和外匯，這是我們長期從事的三項業務，根據經濟形勢，它們將繼續以良好的速度成長。

But then we've added a real estate capital markets business. As you'll recall about two years ago. We added a kind of a rough time period for real estate capital markets, but it started to show some growth last year. And we believe, will continue to move towards the expectation that we had over time. You'll also see us -- we've had some early success on the M&A front in terms of doing M&A advisory work for our small- and medium-sized client base.

但後來我們又增加了房地產資本市場業務。您可能還記得大約兩年前的事。我們為房地產資本市場增加了一個粗略的時間段，但去年它開始顯示出一些成長。而我們相信，隨著時間的推移，我們將繼續朝著我們的期望邁進。您也會看到我們—在為中小型客戶群提供併購諮詢服務方面，我們在併購方面取得了一些早期的成功。

We think that's going to be a nice active source of new revenue going forward. We commented on that. with the success we had with one particular transaction in the first quarter. And then commodity risk management is another area we're moving into -- in Texas, we have about 80 reserve-based loans there, outstanding relationships where we do a lot for these companies.

我們認為這將成為未來新的收入來源。我們對此發表了評論。我們在第一季的一筆特定交易中取得了成功。商品風險管理是我們正在進入的另一個領域——在德克薩斯州，我們在那裡有大約 80 筆基於儲備的貸款，我們為這些公司建立了良好的關係，並做了很多工作。

And we will, later in the third quarter -- I'm sorry, later in the late second quarter -- I'm sorry, late third quarter. We'll be launching our oil and gas derivatives business with -- and we have 80 clients that we've actively called on almost all of them now, and they -- because we're in their reserve-based borrowing transactions they are very open to including us on that front, and that is going to be, we think, have a lot of potential for us.

我們將在第三季末——抱歉，是在第二季末——抱歉，是第三季末。我們將推出我們的石油和天然氣衍生品業務——我們擁有 80 個客戶，現在我們幾乎已經積極聯繫了所有客戶，而且他們——因為我們參與了他們基於儲備的借貸交易，所以他們非常願意讓我們參與其中，我們認為這對我們來說具有很大的潛力。

So those would just be some of the major categories. We have other parts of capital markets that we're involved in. like bond underwriting, et cetera. But I think the ones I mentioned would be the highest growth potential. So we're very optimistic investing significantly in systems and risk management and just the quality and depth of our people. So it's an exciting part of the story.

這些只是一些主要類別。我們也參與資本市場的其他部分，例如債券承銷等等。但我認為我提到的那些具有最高的成長潛力。因此，我們非常樂觀地對系統和風險管理以及人員素質和深度進行大量投資。這是故事中令人興奮的部分。

Thank you for the call. I appreciate it. I have missed it, just going back to capital including the tiering conversation. How should we be -- how are you trying to message potential resumption of buybacks again, if I missed it, I'm sorry.

謝謝您的來電。我很感激。我錯過了，只是回到資本，包括分層對話。我們應該怎麼做——您試圖如何再次傳達可能恢復回購的訊息，如果我錯過了，我很抱歉。

So I think look, we're going to be somewhat conservative for the next little while. I think we're all -- our nominal CET1 ratio, we think, is very strong at 11%. But in times of stress, people don't care about nominal numbers. They look at [Mark's] numbers, and we still have some AOCI that needs to work off.

所以我認為，我們在接下來的一段時間內會採取一些保守的態度。我認為我們所有人——我們的名義 CET1 比率，我們認為，非常強勁，達到 11%。但在壓力時期，人們並不關心名目數字。他們看了馬克的數據，發現我們還有一些 AOCI 需要解決。

And as that does -- I mean we had a 20% increase in tangible common equity over the last 12 months. So it's a great combined with earnings at a pretty good clip. But we're just not there yet in terms of where we're comfortable starting to take our foot off the pedal yet and start buying shares.

事實確實如此——我的意思是，在過去 12 個月裡，我們有形的普通股權益增加了 20%。因此，這是一個非常好的組合，而且收益成長速度相當快。但就我們願意開始放鬆警戒並開始買進股票而言，我們還沒有達到那個程度。

We certainly don't know the full profile of what will come out of the Basel III end game. I think it's reexposed what dimensions of that are. But to Harris' point, the AOCI has been coming back in -- and certainly, you've seen other calls and heard others talk about an ex AOCI view, something with a nine handle and something that people are solving for. We have not made any such commitment. But we can see a glide path in the next year that would get us to something with a nine handle ex AOCI and the pattern that we've seen in our earnings generation.

我們當然不知道巴塞爾協議 III 最終結果的全部情況。我認為它重新揭示了它的維度。但就哈里斯的觀點而言，AOCI 已經回歸——當然，你已經看到其他電話並聽到其他人談論前 AOCI 觀點，即九個手柄和人們正在解決的問題。我們沒有做出任何此類承諾。但我們可以看到明年的下滑路徑將使我們達到九個手柄前 AOCI 和我們在盈利生成中看到的模式。

That's helpful. Thank you so much.

這很有幫助。太感謝了。

Thank you. Anthony Elian, JPMorgan.

謝謝。摩根大通的安東尼·埃利安。

Hi everyone, your deposit balances have declined for two straight quarters now on a period-end basis. I know on the slides, you called out the headwinds in 2Q from seasonal April outflows and brokered balances. But do you think the third quarter could be a growth quarter for total deposits?

大家好，從期末來看，你們的存款餘額已經連續兩季下降。我知道在投影片上，您指出了第二季 4 月季節性資金流出和經紀餘額帶來的不利因素。但您認為第三季會成為存款總額成長的一個季度嗎？

Just it could be. I think it's too soon to know. I don't think yet we're starting to see the kind of deposit growth we'd like. So I don't think it's going to be a big driver, but we're sort of working hard at it. And just doing everything we can.

有可能。我認為現在知道還為時過早。我認為我們還沒有開始看到我們所希望的那種存款成長。所以我不認為這會成為一個很大的驅動力，但我們正在為此努力。盡我們所能。

It's -- again, I think we start a little behind the goal line in that -- that's why I said earlier, kind of threading the needle of getting this right in terms of pricing maintaining the deposit base. I'd look through to the whole -- the total funding structure of the company and the cost of it.

再次強調，我認為我們在這方面的起步有點落後於目標線——這就是我之前所說的，在維持存款基礎的定價方面，我們需要找到正確的方法。我會全面了解公司的整體融資結構及其成本。

And that's kind of the North Star for us is trying to really get that balance right. And so bringing down broker deposits and we'd like really like to see more of that, less reliance on short-term borrowings, et cetera. And so we're working on the deposit side too soon to know whether we're going to make the big difference this quarter.

這對我們來說就像北極星一樣，正在努力實現真正的平衡。因此，降低經紀人存款，我們真的希望看到更多這樣的存款，減少對短期借款的依賴，等等。因此，我們過早開始處理存款方面的問題，以致無法知道本季我們是否能取得重大進展。

Thank you. And then my follow-up actually on your comments, Harris, earlier on stablecoins. So I know you mentioned it's still too early to see how something like that could impact Zions. But given you have the leg up with already being integrated on TCS right?

謝謝。然後我實際上是在跟進你之前關於穩定幣的評論，哈里斯。所以我知道你提到現在判斷這樣的事情會對錫安隊產生什麼影響還為時過早。但是考慮到您已經整合到 TCS 中，對嗎？

We saw the Genius Act signed into law last week, and there's only a handful of regional banks that are active in this space today. Could you see stablecoins and digital assets more broadly being an area that contributes to Zions' deposit growth at some point? Thank you.

我們看到《天才法案》已在上週簽署成為法律，目前只有少數幾家地區性銀行活躍於此領域。您是否認為穩定幣和數位資產在某種程度上會成為促進 Zions 存款成長的一個領域？謝謝。

Listen, my own view is that that it's a little tough to -- I think the Genius Act, thankfully, create some really good guardrails in terms of not only provisions on the payment of interest, but put substitutes for that as well.

聽著，我個人的觀點是，這有點困難——我認為《天才法案》值得慶幸的是，它不僅在支付利息的規定方面建立了一些非常好的護欄，而且還提供了替代方案。

And I think anybody trying to make their way around that is going to find themselves in court. And so stablecoin becomes basically a really fancy form of the currency you carry in our wallet. It's noninterest-bearing. It's really an noninterest bearing money market, mutual fund is what kind of what it becomes.

我認為任何試圖繞過這項限制的人都會面臨法庭審判。因此，穩定幣基本上成為我們錢包中攜帶的貨幣的一種非常奇特的形式。它是無利息的。這其實是一個不生息的貨幣市場，共同基金是什麼樣的，它就變成什麼樣的。

I think the better case is going to be in tokenized deposits. I think that's going to be healthier for the economy because it's going to allow for the creation of private credit that the banking system so important for.

我認為更好的情況是代幣化存款。我認為這對經濟來說會更健康，因為它將允許創造銀行系統至關重要的私人信貸。

And so I'm certainly be wrong, but I -- and I think stablecoin's going to have a place, cross-border payments, et cetera. Beyond that, maybe, but I -- it's hard for me to see where the advantage is relative to tokenized deposits.

所以我肯定是錯的，但我認為穩定幣將在跨境支付等領域佔有一席之地。除此之外，也許還有，但是我——我很難看出相對於代幣化存款而言它的優勢在哪裡。

In both cases, I think the big advantage is going to be down the road, it's going to be the programmability of payments. It's going to be payments that settle on the blockchain simultaneously multiple transactions, a title companies with state departments of commerce, et cetera, as a lean filings. -- property records, those kinds of things, you can certainly see a future where a lot of the friction in financial transactions disappears through programmable payments.

在這兩種情況下，我認為未來最大的優勢在於支付的可程式性。這將是在區塊鏈上同時結算的多項交易的付款，產權公司與州商務部等的精益備案——財產記錄，諸如此類的事情，你肯定可以看到未來，透過可編程支付，金融交易中的許多摩擦都會消失。

But it's hard for me to see how stablecoin has a leg up on tokenized deposits to do that. And so -- we'll see how it plays out. We'll be watching. I guess my point is, I think we've got probably less work to do than some will have being able to actually operationalize it.

但我很難看出穩定幣如何比代幣化存款更有優勢。所以——我們將看看結果如何。我們會關注的。我的觀點是，我認為我們要做的工作可能比一些人能夠實際實施的工作還要少。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Yeah.

是的。

Thank you. David Smith, Truist Securities.

謝謝。大衛史密斯（David Smith），Truist Securities。

Thank you. You had some nice loan growth this month. I'm just thinking ahead about the outlook for slightly increasing loan growth a year from now. Do you constrained at all on how much you can grow given your current GAAP equity levels, just given how credit has been performing and the fact that customer sentiment seems solid, it would seem like a good time to really be leaning into growth for a while. And do you have the capacity to do as much of that as you like to organically right now? I know if you can maintain these returns, it will help, obviously, but any color on that would be really helpful.

謝謝。本月您的貸款成長不錯。我只是在思考一年後貸款成長略有增加的前景。考慮到您目前的 GAAP 股權水平，您的成長空間是否受到任何限制？考慮到信貸表現如何以及客戶情緒似乎很穩定，現在似乎是真正傾向於成長的好時機。您現在是否有能力以有機的方式完成盡可能多的工作？我知道如果你能保持這些回報，這顯然會有所幫助，但任何顏色都會非常有幫助。

Thanks for that, David. Yeah, we don't feel capital constrained from taking such organic growth action. As what I've tried to call out in some of my remarks is we are really wanting to have a growth orientation here. And some of the things that you would be showing up in our guide for noninterest expense are meant to be more growth oriented, more marketing dollars, more revenue producers. So that is our hope.

謝謝你，大衛。是的，我們並不認為採取這種有機成長行動會受到資本限制。正如我在一些言論中試圖指出的那樣，我們確實希望在這裡有一個成長導向。在我們的非利息支出指南中，您會看到一些內容是為了更注重成長、增加行銷資金、創造更多收入。這就是我們的希望。

We need the economy to be constructive. In my prepared remarks, I sort of said we could actually see outlook. Upside from our outlook if the tariffs settle into a place that's not disruptive. But we don't know until we get there.

我們需要經濟具有建設性。在我準備好的發言中，我說過我們實際上可以看到前景。如果關稅穩定下來，不再造成破壞，我們的前景將一片光明。但我們不到那裡就不知道。

But if you look at what we produced this past quarter and you analyze that at 5.6% of loan growth, it was a pretty healthy quarter. So there's no guarantees that, that persists, but we like the markets we're in, and we kind of like the strategy moving forward.

但如果你看看我們上個季度的業績，你會發現貸款成長率為 5.6%，這是一個相當健康的季度。因此，沒有人能保證這種情況會持續下去，但我們喜歡我們所處的市場，也喜歡未來的策略。

David, this is Scott. I would just add -- I should have added it earlier, our call programs, I've mentioned this on the last two calls, the calling programs that we have with our branch managers, our small business bankers, our middle market commercial bankers, private bankers, et cetera. They are as intensified as they've ever been.

大衛，這是斯科特。我只想補充一下——我應該早點補充，我們的呼叫程序，我在前兩次電話會議中提到過，我們與分行經理、小型企業銀行家、中型市場商業銀行家、私人銀行家等開展的呼叫程序。它們比以往任何時候都更加激烈。

It's just a real focus on calling on existing customers but calling on peer prospects as well. And that's just ramping up. And so I think we're going to get as many good looks, if not more than anybody. And then we just have to see how, again, the economy and everything else balances out. I think we'll compete effectively.

它不僅真正注重吸引現有客戶，也專注於吸引同行潛在客戶。而這還在不斷增加。因此我認為我們將獲得和其他人一樣多的好評，甚至比其他人更多。然後我們只需要看看經濟和其他一切如何平衡。我認為我們會有效競爭。

All right, thank you.

好的，謝謝。

Thank you. Jon Arfstrom, RBC Capital Markets.

謝謝。加拿大皇家銀行資本市場 (RBC Capital Markets) 的 Jon Arfstrom。

Hey, thanks. I know it's getting late, so we can be quick here. But on slide 23, can you talk a little bit more about the construction and CRE term loan activity? Is that just construction loans going to permanent or is there something else happening there within plan?

嘿，謝謝。我知道時間不早了，所以我們可以快點。但在第 23 張投影片上，您能否再多談談有關建築和 CRE 定期貸款活動的情況？這只是永久性的建築貸款嗎，還是計畫中還有其他事情發生？

Yes. Thanks, Jon. This is Derek. Yes, on slide 23, what you're seeing there for the commercial real estate, the C&D construction that's really just construction loans that are moving into the term-loan bucket. So as they reach certificate occupancy, that's when we move them into the term loan bucket.

是的。謝謝，喬恩。這是德里克。是的，在第 23 張投影片上，您看到的是商業房地產、C&D 建築，實際上只是進入定期貸款類別的建築貸款。因此，當他們達到入住許可證時，我們就會將他們轉移到定期貸款池中。

Okay. Good. Thank you. And then, Ryan, just one quick one for you. I think you're saying this, but I just want to make sure I've got it right. You have a lot of repricing that happens immediately with a rate cut or a rate hike. You're just saying there's enough momentum in your model right now that if we get a couple of cuts, you still feel like there's enough momentum to push the margin higher?

好的。好的。謝謝。然後，Ryan，我只想告訴你一個問題。我認為你是這麼說的，但我只是想確保我的理解是正確的。降息或升息會立即發生大量重新定價。您只是說，現在您的模型中有足夠的動力，如果我們進行幾次削減，您仍然覺得有足夠的動力來提高利潤率？

Yeah, thank you for that. I'm glad you raised that question because it gives me a chance to clean up something I said previously and to reinforce the point I wanted to make on this call. So that fixed asset repricing is good for 2 to 3 basis points on earning asset yields quarter to quarter. I think I may have said NIM before.

是的，謝謝你。我很高興你提出這個問題，因為它給了我一個機會來澄清我之前說過的話，並強調我想在這通電話中提出的觀點。因此，固定資產重新定價有利於使資產收益率逐季提高 2 至 3 個基點。我想我之前可能說過 NIM。

And I think the reason why we sort of like some of the things that we put in the back, but we don't want to force feed people with it is you have kind of a traditional view of asset sensitivity around like parallel shocks. And we've been not really talking about that very much because we actually don't think it's that interesting, given the fact that the Fed could be changing their posture.

我認為我們之所以喜歡我們放在後面的一些東西，但我們不想強迫人們接受它，是因為人們對平行衝擊等資產敏感性有一種傳統的看法。我們實際上並沒有過多談論這個問題，因為考慮到聯準會可能正在改變其立場，我們實際上認為這個問題並不那麼有趣。

But what's important about that sensitivity view, it's not guidance, it's a static balance sheet, all those disclaimers is that it shows that even when you allow for three rate decreases, and even when you said 100 basis point bound on the downside from the implied forward curve that would still allow for an overall increase from kind of the base that we'd be assuming. So that is the message that we're trying to convey. If there's enough latent things working its way through that even with the Fed cutting rates that we could still show growth in NII one-year hence.

但這種敏感性觀點的重要之處在於，它不是指導，而是靜態資產負債表，所有這些免責聲明都表明，即使允許三次降息，即使你說隱含遠期曲線下行 100 個基點，仍然允許從我們假設的基數總體上增加。這就是我們想要傳達的訊息。如果有足夠的潛在因素發揮作用，那麼即使聯準會降息，一年後我們仍然可以顯示 NII 的成長。

Okay. Okay, thank you very much.

好的。好的，非常感謝。

Thank you. There are no further questions. I'd like to pass the call back over to Shannon Drage for any closing remarks.

謝謝。沒有其他問題了。我想將電話轉回給 Shannon Drage 來做最後的演講。

Thank you, Alicia, and thank you all for joining us today. We appreciate your interest in Zions Bancorporation. If you have additional questions, please contact us at the e-mail or phone number listed on our website. We look forward to connecting with you through the coming months, and this concludes our call.

謝謝你，艾莉西亞，也謝謝大家今天加入我們。感謝您對 Zions Bancorporation 的關注。如果您還有其他問題，請透過我們網站上列出的電子郵件或電話號碼與我們聯絡。我們期待在接下來的幾個月與您保持聯繫，我們的通話到此結束。

Thank you. At this time, you may disconnect your lines. Thank you for your participation.

謝謝。此時，您可以斷開線路。感謝您的參與。