Zenvia Inc (ZENV) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to Zenvia's Q4 2024 earnings conference call. Today's speakers are Mr. Cassio Bobsin, Zenvia's Founder and CEO; and Shay Chor, CFO and Investor Relations Officer.

早安，感謝您的支持。歡迎參加 Zenvia 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。今天的演講者是 Zenvia 創辦人兼執行長 Cassio Bobsin 先生和財務長兼投資者關係長 Shay Chor。

Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded, and a replay will be available at the company's IR website, where you can also access today's presentation. (Operator Instructions) Now I'd like to welcome one of our speakers for today, Mr. Cassio Bobsin, Founder and CEO. Sir, the floor is yours.

請注意，今天的會議正在錄製中，重播將在該公司的 IR 網站上提供，您也可以在那裡存取今天的簡報。（操作員指示）現在，我想歡迎今天的一位演講者，創辦人兼執行長 Cassio Bobsin 先生。先生，請您發言。

Good morning, everyone. I'm Cassio Bobsin, Founder and CEO. Thank you for joining us here today. I'd like to start by talking briefly about the AI revolution we are all witnessing. As we look around the world and in Brazil, it's clear that AI is no longer a promise.

大家早安。我是 Cassio Bobsin，創辦人兼執行長。感謝您今天來參加我們的活動。首先我想簡單談談我們正在見證的人工智慧革命。當我們環顧世界和巴西時，很明顯人工智慧不再是承諾。

AI has become a strategic priority for companies looking to reinvent how they connect with customers. In global markets, we see AI driving everything from personalized product recommendations to proactive customer service. Brands are using AI to automate workflows, understand intent in real time and scale human-like conversations across channels.

對於希望重塑與客戶聯繫方式的公司來說，人工智慧已成為其策略重點。在全球市場中，我們看到人工智慧推動一切，從個人化產品推薦到主動客戶服務。品牌正在使用人工智慧來自動化工作流程、即時了解意圖並在各個管道擴展類似人類的對話。

In Brazil, this trend is also accelerating. Businesses of all sizes from large banks and retailers to fast-growing startups are all integrating AI into their CX strategies to improve efficiency, reduce response times and deepen customer relationships. But customers today don't live on a single platform.

在巴西，這一趨勢也在加速。從大型銀行和零售商到快速發展的新創企業，各種規模的企業都在將 AI 融入其 CX 策略中，以提高效率、縮短回應時間並加深客戶關係。但如今的客戶並不生活在單一的平台上。

They move across WhatsApp, Instagram, on mail, chat, SMS, always expecting fluid personalized and consistent experiences at every touch point. That is why AI isn't just a tool. It's now a core pillar of how companies engage with their audiences and how they can sell more and serve better their customers.

他們在 WhatsApp、Instagram、郵件、聊天、簡訊上移動，總是期望在每個接觸點都能獲得流暢、個人化和一致的體驗。這就是為什麼人工智慧不僅僅是一種工具。現在，它已成為公司與受眾互動、銷售更多產品和更好地服務客戶的核心支柱。

And this is exactly where Zenvia is focused, empowering businesses to unify those interactions and bring intelligence, context and scale to every conversation no matter the channel.

這正是 Zenvia 關注的重點，它使企業能夠統一這些互動，並為每次對話帶來智慧、背景和規模，無論透過何種管道。

Let's see the next slides. This AI revolution marks the beginning of our new strategic cycle that we announced in January as it builds on what we achieved in 2024 and sets the stage for more innovation, efficiency and value creation moving forward.

我們來看下一張投影片。這場人工智慧革命標誌著我們今年 1 月宣布的新戰略週期的開始，它以我們 2024 年的成就為基礎，為未來更多的創新、效率和價值創造奠定了基礎。

Strategic cycles play a critical role in shaping the direction and growth of companies and allow us to adapt to market changes, focus our resources and position ourselves for long term success. It is always worth remembering that Zenvia's mission since our inception over 20 years ago has always been to revolutionize the experience that customers have with companies and brands.

策略週期在塑造公司的方向和發展方面發揮關鍵作用，使我們能夠適應市場變化、集中資源並為長期成功做好準備。永遠值得記住的是，自 20 多年前成立以來，Zenvia 的使命始終是徹底改變客戶對公司和品牌的體驗。

We recognized three distinct strategic cycles so far in this mission, and we just closed the third one and launched the fourth one, as you can see in this slide. We had our first cycle, which was basically our start-up phase after being born in a garage as an SMS provider, then evolved to the second cycle where we expanded our messaging capabilities and consolidated ourselves as the leading SMS broker in Brazil with a series of acquisitions.

到目前為止，我們在這項任務中認識到了三個不同的策略週期，我們剛剛結束了第三個週期，並啟動了第四個週期，正如您在這張投影片中看到的那樣。我們經歷了第一個週期，基本上是作為短信提供商在車庫中誕生後的初創階段，然後發展到第二個週期，我們擴展了消息傳遞功能，並通過一系列收購鞏固了我們在巴西領先的短信經紀商的地位。

The third and latest strategic cycle began in 2018 when we decided to evolve from a leading Brazilian CPaaS to become the most comprehensive CX SaaS in Latin America. After a series of acquisitions held before and after our IPO of companies that not only complemented our CPaaS business, but also reinforced our strategy and vision for the future, all overcoming challenges in their integration.

第三個也是最新的策略週期始於 2018 年，當時我們決定從領先的巴西 CPaaS 發展成為拉丁美洲最全面的 CX SaaS。在我們 IPO 前後進行的一系列收購不僅補充了我們的 CPaaS 業務，而且強化了我們的未來策略和願景，並克服了整合過程中的挑戰。

We officially launched the Zenvia Customer Cloud in 2024. Zenvia Customer Cloud is the culmination of this vision and is now our core business moving forward. So as of January 2025, we have entered our fourth strategic cycle, centered on accelerating the growth of our newly defined core business.

我們於 2024 年正式推出了 Zenvia 客戶雲。Zenvia 客戶雲是這個願景的巔峰，也是我們未來的核心業務。因此，截至 2025 年 1 月，我們已進入第四個策略週期，重點是加速我們新定​​義的核心業務的成長。

Let's dive in on Zenvia Customer Cloud on the next slide. We're truly excited about Zenvia Customer Cloud and the immense potential it brings to our company. This platform represents a pivotal milestone in our journey and in our commitment to enhancing customer experiences.

在下一張投影片中，讓我們深入了解 Zenvia 客戶雲。我們對 Zenvia 客戶雲端以及它為我們公司帶來的巨大潛力感到非常興奮。該平台代表了我們發展歷程和提升客戶體驗承諾中的一個重要里程碑。

Zenvia Customer Cloud is powered by AI-driven solutions and robust data analytics and is designed to adapt seamlessly to businesses of all sizes and across diverse industries. Clients already using it report enhanced customer engagement, increased sales and reduced costs.

Zenvia 客戶雲由人工智慧驅動的解決方案和強大的數據分析提供支援，旨在無縫適應各種規模和不同行業的企業。已經使用它的客戶報告稱，客戶參與度提高了，銷售額增加了，成本降低了。

Zenvia Customer Cloud was born with AI at its core to help companies not only automate but truly operationalize intelligence, especially when managing the experience of thousands of customers in a single unified environment.

Zenvia 客戶雲端以人工智慧為核心而誕生，旨在幫助公司不僅實現自動化，而且真正實現智慧化，尤其是在單一統一環境中管理數千名客戶的體驗時。

It's important to highlight here that the launch of Zenvia Customer Cloud was leveraged by two important and strategic initiatives, the use of product-led growth, PLG strategies and our international expansion in Latin America.

這裡需要強調的是，Zenvia 客戶雲端的推出得益於兩項重要且具有策略意義的舉措，即產品主導的成長、PLG 策略以及我們在拉丁美洲的國際擴張。

Our PLG strategies give users flexible and self-service access to our software. They can start small, explore features at their own pace, and scale in an easy way as their needs grow. This is all made possible by integrating our services into this unified platform, which makes the experience intuitive and adaptable for businesses of any industry and size.

我們的 PLG 策略為使用者提供了靈活、自助存取我們軟體的能力。他們可以從小處著手，按照自己的步調探索功能，並隨著需求的增長輕鬆擴展。這一切都是透過將我們的服務整合到這個統一的平台中實現的，這使得體驗直觀且適合任何行業和規模的企業。

Because it fits so well with our clients' need, it leads to higher adoption, stronger long term relationships and a scalable revenue model, positioning Zenvia for sustainable growth in a fast-moving market. Another key differentiator is our shift to a volume-based pricing model, where clients pay based on the number of interactions they have with their clients and prospects rather than the traditional perceived SaaS model that we had before.

由於它非常符合我們客戶的需求，因此它帶來了更高的採用率、更牢固的長期關係和可擴展的收入模式，使 Zenvia 在快速發展的市場中實現永續成長。另一個關鍵的差異是我們轉向了基於數量的定價模式，客戶根據他們與客戶和潛在客戶的互動次數付費，而不是我們之前所採用的傳統 SaaS 模式。

This approach is enabled by an extensive use of AI in our software, which minimizes our customers' reliance on human agents, enhances efficiency for their operations and unlocks greater revenue generation potential for us with much less complexity and our international expansion, particularly in Argentina and Mexico, where we already had a presence, is performing well and delivering results.

這種方法是透過在我們的軟體中廣泛使用人工智慧來實現的，這最大限度地減少了客戶對人工代理的依賴，提高了他們的營運效率，並以更低的複雜性為我們釋放了更大的創收潛力，我們的國際擴張，特別是在我們已經開展業務的阿根廷和墨西哥，表現良好並取得了成果。

These international clients are already delivering a solid contribution to the success of Zenvia Customer Cloud, further validating our strategy. The initial results we already achieved with Zenvia Customer Cloud in these first months leaves us energized and optimistic about the opportunities that lie ahead after this challenging 2024.

這些國際客戶已經為 Zenvia 客戶雲端的成功做出了堅實的貢獻，進一步驗證了我們的策略。我們在最初幾個月透過 Zenvia Customer Cloud 取得的初步成果讓我們對充滿挑戰的 2024 年後的機會充滿活力和樂觀。

As we enter this important new strategic cycle, we are laser-focused on driving organic growth by leveraging our unified platform and market opportunities, evolving and accelerating our partnership ecosystem, boosting profitability through smarter operations and efficiency while reducing leverage to strengthen our financial foundation.

當我們進入這個重要的新策略週期時，我們專注於利用統一的平台和市場機會來推動有機成長，發展和加速我們的合作夥伴生態系統，透過更智慧的營運和效率來提高獲利能力，同時降低槓桿率以加強我們的財務基礎。

At the same time, we're committed to building the optimal capital structure to support our ambitions and ensure long term resilience. These combined efforts are expected to position us to unlock meaningful sustainable value as we move forward in our journey.

同時，我們致力於建立最佳資本結構，以支持我們的目標並確保長期的韌性。預計這些共同的努力將使我們在前進的道路上釋放出有意義的永續價值。

I'll now hand the call over to Shay to present our financial performance, and I'll be available for the Q&A session later on.

我現在將電話交給 Shay 來介紹我們的財務業績，稍後我將參加問答環節。

Thank you, Cassio. Good morning, everyone. Let's start on the next slide and continue talking about Zenvia Customer Cloud, as Cassio just mentioned. This slide brings a snapshot of Zenvia Customer Cloud, which was officially launched back in October '24 and generated revenues of around BRL180 million in the full year of '24.

謝謝你，卡西奧。大家早安。讓我們從下一張投影片開始，繼續討論 Cassio 剛才提到的 Zenvia 客戶雲。這張投影片簡要介紹了 Zenvia 客戶雲，該產品於 24 年 10 月正式推出，24 年全年創造了約 1.8 億巴西雷亞爾的收入。

We closed the year with almost 6,000 companies already using the platform, 20% of which were international companies, mainly from Mexico and Argentina. In terms of growth, we estimate that this operation will expand by 25% to 30% in 2025, achieving a gross margin of between 68% and 70% and positive EBITDA margin.

截至今年年底，已有近 6,000 家公司使用該平台，其中 20％ 是國際公司，主要來自墨西哥和阿根廷。在成長方面，我們預計該業務到 2025 年將擴大 25% 至 30%，實現 68% 至 70% 之間的毛利率和正的 EBITDA 利潤率。

Our estimates are based on solid data, showing the market is set to keep growing at a strong double-digit pace in the coming years. On top of that, our new unified operating model with advanced automation and AI and the acceleration of our partner ecosystem puts us in a better position to make the most of these opportunities.

我們的估計基於可靠的數據，顯示未來幾年市場將繼續以強勁的兩位數速度成長。最重要的是，我們採用先進的自動化和人工智慧的新統一營運模式以及合作夥伴生態系統的加速發展，使我們能夠更好地充分利用這些機會。

Let's now move to the next slide and talk to numbers from the quarter and the year. Q4 was a particularly challenging quarter for us as several headwinds converge and weighed on profitability despite continued top line growth and disciplined cost management.

現在讓我們轉到下一張投影片，討論本季和本年度的數字。第四季對我們來說是一個特別具有挑戰性的季度，儘管營收持續成長且成本管理嚴格，但多種不利因素匯聚在一起，對獲利能力造成了壓力。

Starting on the left, we can see revenues reaching BRL231 million, up 7% year-over-year. This was primarily driven by a strong volume growth in CPaaS, which offset declines in SaaS revenues. However, as we move to the next chart, we can see the pressure on margins.

從左邊開始，我們可以看到收入達到 2.31 億巴西雷亞爾，年增 7%。這主要是由於 CPaaS 銷售的強勁成長，抵消了 SaaS 收入的下降。然而，當我們看下一張圖表時，我們可以看到利潤率面臨的壓力。

Our adjusted gross profit declined 60% to BRL49 million, with gross margin decreasing to 21%. There were two main drivers behind this. First, on the CPaaS side, we saw a higher mix in the quarter coming from strong growth but at lower margins. This was further impacted by a BRL27.8 million SMS cost adjustment related to the full year, but only recognized entirely in Q4 rather than being spread across previous quarters.

我們的調整後毛利下降 60% 至 4,900 萬巴西雷亞爾，毛利率下降至 21%。這背後有兩個主要驅動因素。首先，在 CPaaS 方面，我們看到本季產品組合因強勁成長而有所提升，但利潤率較低。這進一步受到全年 2,780 萬巴西雷亞爾簡訊成本調整的影響，但僅在第四季度全部確認，而不是分攤到前幾季。

As you can see in the center chart, this had a major effect on our CPaaS gross profit and margin. If we exclude this one-time item, CPaaS adjusted gross margin would have been close to 22%, which is much more in line with our expected range of 20% to 25% as opposed to the reported 4%.

正如您在中心圖表中看到的，這對我們的 CPaaS 毛利和利潤率產生了重大影響。如果我們排除這筆一次性項目，CPaaS 調整後的毛利率將接近 22%，這更符合我們預期的 20% 至 25% 的範圍，而不是報告的 4%。

We view this impact as a nonrecurring and expect margins to normalize progressively over the course of 2025 as we move on with our strategy. Second, in SaaS, margins declined to tighter profitability from our enterprise clients who continue to operate in a highly competitive environment.

我們認為這種影響是一次性的，並預計隨著我們策略的推進，利潤率將在 2025 年逐步正常化。其次，在 SaaS 領域，利潤率下降，因為我們的企業客戶仍在高度競爭的環境中運營，獲利能力趨緊。

Additionally, we incurred higher costs related to the launch of Zenvia Customer Cloud. As we continue rolling out this new operation, we expect to see better results from our SaaS segment throughout 2025. As a result of both these effects, CPaaS adjusted gross profit was only BRL6 million, while SaaS reached BRL43 million, with margin declining in both segments.

此外，我們也因推出 Zenvia 客戶雲端而產生了更高的成本。隨著我們繼續推出這項新業務，我們預計在 2025 年我們的 SaaS 部門將取得更好的表現。由於這兩種影響，CPaaS 調整後的毛利僅為 600 萬巴西雷亞爾，而 SaaS 達到 4,300 萬巴西雷亞爾，兩個部門的利潤率均有所下降。

EBITDA, when excluding earn-out expenses and the SMS impact I just mentioned, closed the quarter at BRL35 million, a 6% decline versus the BRL37 million recorded in Q4 of '23. We expect this level to be our recurring quarterly EBITDA going into '25.

在扣除獲利支出和我剛才提到的 SMS 影響後，EBITDA 本季收於 3,500 萬巴西雷亞爾，較 23 年第四季的 3,700 萬巴西雷亞爾下降 6%。我們預計這一水平將成為我們進入 25 年的季度經常性 EBITDA。

Let's now move to the analysis of the results of the year. In this slide, we show our annual revenue and non-GAAP adjusted gross profit over the last three years. On the revenue side on the left, both segments presented growth in the periods.

現在讓我們來分析一下今年的業績。在這張投影片中，我們展示了過去三年的年度收入和非公認會計準則調整後的毛利。在左側的收入方面，兩個部門在這段時間內都呈現成長。

The CPaaS market proved to be much more dynamic and volatile than expected, expanding 25% year-over-year between '23 and '24 after growing only 3% in the previous year, while SaaS remained in a highly competitive environment, growing at high single digits in the same period as compared to double digits the year before.

CPaaS 市場比預期更加活躍和不穩定，在 2023 年至 2024 年間同比增長 25%，而前一年僅增長 3%，而 SaaS 仍然處於高度競爭的環境中，與前一年的兩位數增長相比，同期增長率僅為高個位數。

With this revenue performance, along with the margin impacts we just discussed, particularly from Q4, drove the overall gross margin compression in the year as seen on the chart on the right. Looking ahead, I would like to emphasize again here that we have been investing a lot on the integration of the SaaS solution, and we expect to start to leverage on the growth of SaaS under Zenvia Customer Cloud.

憑藉這樣的營收表現，加上我們剛剛討論過的利潤率影響（尤其是第四季度的影響），推動了全年整體毛利率的壓縮，如右圖所示。展望未來，我想在這裡再次強調，我們一直在 SaaS 解決方案的整合上投入大量資金，我們希望開始利用 Zenvia 客戶雲下 SaaS 的成長。

As we move more and more into it, integrating all businesses into the new business model, the company is increasingly transitioning into a full SaaS model, generating MRR through monthly subscription, seats and usage volume.

隨著我們越來越深入地投入其中，將所有業務整合到新的商業模式中，公司正在逐漸轉向完整的 SaaS 模式，透過每月訂閱、席位和使用量來產生 MRR。

Let's now look into the profitability for the year in more detail. This slide gives us a consolidated view on how gross profit and margin performed in '24. Again, profitability was impacted by the newly acquired CPaaS clients with lower margins and the competitive environment for enterprise on SaaS, along with the cost adjustments we just discussed.

現在讓我們更詳細地了解今年的獲利能力。這張投影片為我們提供了 24 年毛利和利潤率表現的綜合視圖。再次，獲利能力受到新收購的利潤率較低的 CPaaS 客戶、SaaS 企業競爭環境以及我們剛才討論的成本調整的影響。

I would like to highlight here that despite the impact this quarter, we believe this strategy with the newly acquired CPaaS clients will pay off over the medium to long term as we deepen this relationship, and we don't need additional G&A expenses to manage them.

我想在這裡強調的是，儘管本季度受到了影響，但我們相信，隨著我們深化這種關係，這項針對新收購的 CPaaS 客戶的策略將在中長期內獲得回報，而且我們不需要額外的 G&A 費用來管理它們。

Moving on, let's now discuss our G&A. Over the past two years, we've stayed laser focused on tightly controlling costs, cutting BRL33 million in G&A expenses in total, thanks to our streamlining efforts that started at the end of '22 when our G&A to revenue ratio reached almost 23%.

接下來，我們來討論一下我們的 G&A。在過去兩年中，我們一直專注於嚴格控製成本，由於我們從 22 年底開始的精簡工作，總共削減了 3300 萬巴西雷亞爾的 G&A 費用，當時我們的 G&A 與收入之比達到近 23%。

As you can see in this slide, this ratio went down to 12% in '24 from 16% in '23 and from 19.5% in '22, down by 760 basis points in this two year period. We are very proud to have been able to pivot the company this way, improving both the productivity and profitability, which are vital for this next phase of growth, as Cassio mentioned in his opening remarks.

正如您在這張投影片中看到的，這一比率從 2023 年的 16% 和 2022 年的 19.5% 下降到 2024 年的 12%，在兩年期間下降了 760 個基點。我們非常自豪能夠以這種方式來調整公司，提高生產力和盈利能力，正如卡西奧在開場白中提到的那樣，這對於下一階段的成長至關重要。

As we enter '25, we remain committed to keeping our focus on streamlining our operations to drive efficiency. We announced in January a headcount reduction projected to generate cost saving of additional BRL30 million to BRL35 million in '25, even after accounting for severance expenses. And we are also counting on AI and automation to have an even deeper impact in streamlining efforts moving forward.

進入25年，我們將繼續致力於簡化營運以提高效率。我們在一月份宣布了裁員計劃，即使扣除遣散費後，預計25年仍將節省3000萬至3500萬巴西雷亞爾的成本。我們也希望人工智慧和自動化能夠在未來的簡化工作中發揮更深遠的影響。

As a result of all our efforts on both the revenue side and G&A side, EBITDA multiplied by almost 5 times in these two years, but fell short of the full year '24 guidance for the reason I already explained. Even though our revenues went up 19% year-over-year to BRL960 million and the G&A expenses went down 11% year-over-year, it was not enough to offset the lower gross profit margins.

由於我們在收入和 G&A 方面所做的一切努力，EBITDA 在這兩年內增長了近 5 倍，但由於我已經解釋過的原因，仍未達到 24 年全年的預期。儘管我們的營收年增 19% 至 9.6 億巴西雷亞爾，且一般及行政費用年減 11%，但這不足以抵銷較低的毛利率。

We are frustrated that we couldn't reach our EBITDA guidance for '24. But at the same time, we are confident about '25, given the early improvements we are already seeing in the first months of the year.

我們很沮喪，因為我們無法達到 24 年的 EBITDA 指導值。但同時，考慮到我們在今年頭幾個月已經看到的早期改善，我們對 25 年充滿信心。

Moving on to the next slide. Another key index that we always like to highlight is our EBITDA minus CapEx. This metric not only highlights our operational efficiency, but also helps you understand how well we are positioning ourselves to deleverage, fund future growth, maintain financial flexibility and reward shareholders.

繼續下一張投影片。我們一直強調的另一個關鍵指標是 EBITDA 減去資本支出。這項指標不僅凸顯了我們的營運效率，還可以幫助您了解我們在去槓桿、資助未來成長、維持財務靈活性和回報股東方面的定位有多好。

As you can see in this slide, in '22, when we deducted the CapEx from our EBITDA, we still saw a negative figure. It turned positive in '23 and improved even more in '24, even considering the increase in CapEx related to the investments stated in this year.

正如您在這張投影片中所看到的，在 22 年，當我們從 EBITDA 中扣除資本支出時，我們仍然看到負數。即使考慮到今年所述投資相關的資本支出增加，該數字在 23 年仍轉為正值，並在 24 年進一步改善。

When we look year-over-year, our EBITDA minus CapEx improved BRL26 million in '24, but for the two years, the performance is even better, an improvement of BRL53 million. We also ended the year with a cash balance of BRL117 million. We expect EBITDA to continue growing at a faster pace than our CapEx as it has been the case for the last few years.

與去年同期相比，我們的 EBITDA 減去資本支出在 24 年增加了 2,600 萬巴西雷亞爾，但兩年來的表現甚至更好，增加了 5,300 萬巴西雷亞爾。截至年底，我們的現金餘額為 1.17 億巴西雷亞爾。我們預計 EBITDA 將繼續以比資本支出更快的速度成長，就像過去幾年的情況一樣。

CapEx for '25 should remain in the same level of '24. Zenvia Customer Cloud is the growth engine for our company from now on. Moving on to the next slide to talk about our next steps. As we move into this next phase, our focus remains clear. We'll continue to accelerate organic growth, supported by the increasing scalability of our new platform.

25 年的資本支出應與 24 年維持在同一水準。Zenvia 客戶雲將成為我們公司未來的成長引擎。繼續下一張投影片來討論我們的下一步。當我們進入下一階段時，我們的重點仍然明確。在我們新平台日益增強的可擴展性的支持下，我們將繼續加速有機成長。

At the same time, we are streamlining operations even further with AI playing a key role, not just in how we serve clients, but in how we operate internally with greater efficiency and intelligence. As a means to sharpen our focus on our core business and drive the expansion of our ecosystem, we'll carefully evaluate opportunities to divest non-core assets as we disclosed in January.

同時，我們正在進一步簡化運營，人工智慧不僅在我們如何服務客戶方面發揮關鍵作用，而且在我們如何以更高的效率和智慧進行內部運營方面也發揮關鍵作用。為了加強我們對核心業務的關注並推動生態系統的擴張，我們將仔細評估剝離非核心資產的機會，正如我們在一月份所揭露的那樣。

We believe we own assets that hold significant value in their segments and an opportunistic divestment could play a key role in optimizing our capital structure. As we embark on our new strategic cycle, we are focused on expanding Zenvia Customer Cloud in Brazil and Latin America. Our priorities are accelerating organic growth while continuing to deleverage the company.

我們相信，我們擁有的資產在其領域具有重大價值，而機會性資產剝離可以在優化我們的資本結構方面發揮關鍵作用。隨著我們開始新的策略週期，我們專注於在巴西和拉丁美洲擴展 Zenvia 客戶雲。我們的首要任務是加速有機成長，同時持續降低公司的槓桿。

We are working hard for these actions to result in a more efficient company with exceptionally solid business metrics, enabling us to unlock value to our shareholders. I couldn't close this call without thanking you all for your support in '24, which, as I said in the beginning of my prepared remarks, was a transformative year for us.

我們正在努力採取這些行動，使公司變得更加高效，擁有異常穩健的業務指標，從而使我們能夠為股東釋放價值。在結束本次電話會議之前，我必須感謝大家在 2024 年給予我們的支持，正如我在準備好的演講開頭所說的那樣，2024 年對我們來說是變革的一年。

We appreciate your continued trust as we move ahead. We are committed to building a profitable and exciting future for Zenvia. Based on what we have seen so far, we expect to report a good start for the year with Q1 numbers by mid-June.

我們感謝您在我們前進的道路上繼續給予的信任。我們致力於為 Zenvia 打造一個獲利且令人興奮的未來。根據我們目前所看到的情況，我們預計 6 月中旬第一季的數據將為今年帶來良好的開端。

We cannot anticipate a specific number at this point, but I can say that we are seeing revenue growth picking up, SaaS margin recovering and EBITDA tracking at healthy levels. With this, we conclude our prepared remarks, and we are ready to take your questions.

我們目前無法預測具體的數字，但我可以說，我們看到收入成長正在回升，SaaS 利潤率正在恢復，EBITDA 正在追蹤健康水平。我們的準備發言到此結束，並準備回答大家的提問。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from [Armagan]. Two questions from me. Can you take it, Shay?

（操作員指示）我們的第一個問題來自[阿瑪甘]。我有兩個問題。你能接受嗎，謝伊？

Yes, yes. I'll read it and I'll answer.

是的，是的。我會閱讀並回答。

Thank you.

謝謝。

So first question, could you provide clarity on Zenvia's full year 2025 revenue outlook? Specifically, how should investors model the Customer Cloud segment 25% to 30% projected growth in relation to your traditional SaaS, CPaaS business lines? To what extent do you anticipate customer cloud revenues to cannibalize existing revenue streams versus creating net new growth?

那麼第一個問題，您能否明確說明 Zenvia 2025 年全年的營收前景？具體來說，投資者應該如何預測客戶雲端部門相對於傳統 SaaS、CPaaS 業務線 25% 至 30% 的預期成長？您預期客戶雲端收入將在多大程度上蠶食現有收入流而不是創造淨新成長？

Thanks, Armagan, for your questions. So I'll start by trying to separate the revenues here, so it's easier for everybody to understand. When we think about the SaaS business, the entire SaaS business in '24, we generated approximately BRL320 million in revenues.

謝謝 Armagan 的問題。因此，我首先嘗試分離這裡的收入，以便每個人都能更容易理解。當我們考慮 SaaS 業務時，24 年的整個 SaaS 業務，我們創造了約 3.2 億巴西雷亞爾的收入。

Given that we stated that Zenvia Customer Cloud was about BRL180 million, so that is the part that we are saying that it's going to grow about 25% to 30%, the BRL180 million that we generated under Zenvia Customer Cloud.

鑑於我們先前提到 Zenvia 客戶雲端的營收約為 1.8 億巴西雷亞爾，所以我們說 Zenvia 客戶雲產生的 1.8 億巴西雷亞爾的營收將成長約 25% 至 30%。

There are still about BRL140 million in other SaaS businesses that we expect to be flattish to 5% growth. So it's SaaS we can even consider that SaaS legacy business. So those are businesses that in the M&A that we did, they don't fit under Zenvia Customer Cloud, but they still generate decent revenue and they still generate decent profitability.

其他 SaaS 業務仍有約 1.4 億巴西雷亞爾的收入，我們預計其成長率將持平至 5%。所以它是 SaaS，我們甚至可以將其視為 SaaS 遺留業務。因此，在我們進行的併購中，這些業務不屬於 Zenvia Customer Cloud，但它們仍然可以創造可觀的收入，並產生可觀的獲利能力。

So those are businesses that we'll keep investing to make them updated, but we'll not put a lot of efforts to keep growing those businesses. There are important clients that are with us for a while, and we'll keep them with us investing in what they need, but there will be no effort as we are putting effort on Zenvia Customer Cloud.

因此，我們會繼續投資這些業務以使其更新，但我們不會投入太多精力來維持這些業務的成長。有一些重要的客戶已經與我們合作了一段時間，我們將繼續為他們所需的產品進行投資，但我們不會為此付出任何努力，因為我們正將精力投入到 Zenvia 客戶雲上。

Now on the CPaaS business, it's actually been surprising us. '24 was surprising in terms of growth. We understand that this business should be growing between 5% and 8%, but it grew way faster than this in '24. We are anticipating a '25 that it's growing -- it should move back to that 5% to 8% growth. But in the first couple of months of this year, we are seeing that CPaaS continue growing fast.

現在就 CPaaS 業務而言，它實際上讓我們感到驚訝。 '24 在成長方面令人驚訝。我們知道這項業務應該會成長 5% 到 8% 之間，但 24 年的成長速度卻快得多。我們預計 25 年它將恢復成長——成長率應該會回到 5% 到 8%。但在今年頭幾個月，我們看到 CPaaS 繼續快速成長。

Second question, could you provide an update on the current status of your planned divestments? Has the company established any specific milestones or time line for completing this process that you're able to share with investors?

第二個問題，能否介紹一下計劃撤資的當前狀況？公司是否為完成此過程設定了任何具體的里程碑或時間表，您可以與投資者分享嗎？

We are not able to share any specific details on divestments. As we said on our January 13 statement, we'll be opportunistic on evaluating divestments alternatives. The main focus of the divestment is to improve our capital structure, so deleverage balance sheet. So that's what we should have -- investors should have in mind.

我們無法分享任何有關撤資的具體細節。正如我們在 1 月 13 日的聲明中所說，我們將抓住機會評估撤資替代方案。此次撤資的主要目的是改善我們的資本結構，從而降低資產負債表的槓桿率。所以這就是我們應該——投資者應該考慮的。

And on top of that, obviously, we'll continue doing all liability management that we need to do to deleverage balance sheet. If you look into our financial statements that we published late last week, in the subsequent events, we detail that we renegotiated debt with the debt that we have -- the loans that we have with banks. Most of them, we were granted a six month grace period on the principal amortization.

除此之外，顯然，我們將繼續進行所有必要的負債管理，以降低資產負債表的槓桿比率。如果您查看我們上週稍後發布的財務報表，您會發現在隨後的事件中，我們詳細說明了我們重新協商了我們所擁有的債務—我們與銀行的貸款。其中大多數，我們都獲得了六個月的本金攤銷寬限期。

So that is the kind of thing we'll continue doing in parallel to divestment because divestment we don't control. We need to be opportunistic. And in any case, we need to continue doing liability management to make our EBITDA fit into our capital structure.

因此，我們會在撤資的同時繼續做這樣的事情，因為我們無法控制撤資。我們需要抓住機會。無論如何，我們都需要繼續進行負債管理，以使我們的 EBITDA 適應我們的資本結構。

Hugo, I'll keep going here because I see there's no live questions, okay?

雨果，我會繼續，因為我看到這裡沒有現場提問，好嗎？

Okay, Shay. Thank you.

好的，謝伊。謝謝。

This is one for Cassio. Now that AI is a reality, as you mentioned, what are you seeing as a new hot topic or things that Zenvia is seeing that could happen differently in '25?

這是給卡西奧的。正如您所說，既然人工智慧已經成為現實，您認為新的熱門話題是什麼，或者 Zenvia 認為 25 年可能會發生哪些不同的事情？

As during 2024, we built the foundations to blend AI into the core of our Zenvia Customer Cloud. We see that the adoption of simple use cases that was the beginning of AI into the platform is now evolving into a more interconnected use case, which combines the data that companies have considering the history of their customers' transactions, the history of past interactions with these customers, to then create more sophisticated customer journeys and experiences for these customers.

截至 2024 年，我們已建立基礎，將 AI 融入 Zenvia 客戶雲端的核心。我們看到，人工智慧最初在平台中採用的簡單用例現在正在演變為更互聯的用例，它結合了公司考慮到客戶交易歷史、與這些客戶過去互動歷史而擁有的數據，然後為這些客戶創建更加複雜的客戶旅程和體驗。

So we're beginning to see the adoption of agents that we are offering our customers within the Zenvia Customer Cloud to automate some more complex journeys and complex interactions that use that data to help end customers to solve their issues, to understand what is the best offer for them, to anticipate what could be offered for them in terms of marketing offerings, and so forth and so on. So we are starting to see the use of the combination of data and past interactions into more personalized experiences for end customers.

因此，我們開始看到我們在 Zenvia 客戶雲中為客戶提供的代理的採用，以自動化一些更複雜的旅程和復雜的交互，使用這些數據來幫助最終客戶解決他們的問題，了解什麼是對他們最好的報價，預測在營銷產品方面可以為他們提供什麼，等等。因此，我們開始看到數據和過去互動的結合可以為最終客戶提供更個人化的體驗。

Thank you, Cassio. Another one here for you. I remember at some point, you talked about charging per interaction. The SaaS industry mostly on a per seat basis. Can you elaborate more on this?

謝謝你，卡西奧。這裡還有另一個給你。我記得你曾經談過按互動收費。SaaS 行業主要以每個座位為基礎。能詳細說明一下嗎？

Sure. Historically, SaaS companies charged their platform, their software per seat, which is like a legacy from the old ways of selling software per license. But as we see the adoption of SaaS, even though it evolves human agents operating the software, when you go into automation and AI, you expect customers to use your software, not for increasing the amount of human agents using the software, but going into -- deeper into how to use data and use AI to create more value for their operations, for their businesses.

當然。從歷史上看，SaaS 公司對其平台和軟體按座位收費，這就像過去按許可證銷售軟體的方式遺留下來的。但是，正如我們所看到的，SaaS 的採用，即使它發展了操作軟體的人類代理，當你進入自動化和人工智慧時，你希望客戶使用你的軟體，不是為了增加使用軟體的人類代理的數量，而是為了更深入地了解如何使用數據和使用人工智慧為他們的運營、為他們的業務創造更多價值。

So what we changed, and this is something that in the next couple of years will be the major trend in SaaS is not to charge per seat solely, but migrate that to per usage. And per usage, depending on the business and the software that you're providing means different things.

因此，我們做出的改變是，不再僅按座位收費，而是按使用量收費，這也是未來幾年 SaaS 的主要趨勢。並且，根據用途，根據業務和您提供的軟體意味著不同的事情。

In our case, as we are providing software for customer experiences, it makes sense to charge companies in terms of how many interactions they have with their end customers. Hence, we did that movement last year. Now we charge our software, the whole of Zenvia Customer Cloud per interaction with end customers.

就我們而言，由於我們提供的是針對客戶體驗的軟體，因此根據公司與最終客戶的互動次數來收費是合理的。因此，我們去年進行了這項運動。現在，我們根據與最終客戶的每次互動對我們的軟體以及整個 Zenvia 客戶雲端進行收費。

And what happens when we do that is that we don't limit that many -- the way human agents are using the software, but we actually stimulate them to adopt different features that we would provide, for instance, chatbots or agents for marketing purposes or automation over campaigns or ways to help these human agents to be more productive.

當我們這樣做時，我們不會限制人類代理使用軟體的方式，但實際上我們會激勵他們採用我們提供的不同功能，例如用於行銷目的的聊天機器人或代理或活動自動化或幫助這些人類代理提高工作效率的方法。

And this for companies actually help them to be more efficient to reduce costs. So -- and from our perspective, we're benefiting our customers. And at the same time, we're capturing more volume and more revenues from these same customers as they use more of our software, we are able to charge more per usage.

對於公司來說，這實際上有助於他們提高效率並降低成本。所以 — — 從我們的角度來看，我們正在使我們的客戶受益。同時，隨著這些客戶越來越多地使用我們的軟體，我們從他們那裡獲得了更多的數量和更多的收入，我們能夠按使用量收取更多的費用。

And we see that this is the way we are going to, over the next couple of years, be able to monetize our customer base more and more as they -- usually companies -- our customers usually start with one use case, usually no automation, a very simple use case. And over time, they begin using our software for other use cases for other departments, for other parts of the customer journey.

我們看到，在接下來的幾年裡，我們將能夠越來越多地將我們的客戶群貨幣化，因為他們——通常是公司——我們的客戶通常從一個用例開始，通常沒有自動化，一個非常簡單的用例。隨著時間的推移，他們開始將我們的軟體用於其他部門的其他用例以及客戶旅程的其他部分。

And that brings, of course, more interactions that are managed by our software. That's why we see that will create -- and it is already creating a positive flow in terms of revenue from some customers.

當然，這會帶來更多由我們的軟體管理的互動。這就是為什麼我們認為這將創造——而且它已經從一些客戶那裡創造了積極的收入流。

Okay. Moving forward here. Back on the divestment. Can you also not share if they are even interested at this moment? I understand you can't give specific details, but is there any serious interest currently?

好的。在這裡繼續前進。回到撤資問題。如果他們現在有興趣，您能不分享嗎？我知道您無法提供具體細節，但是目前有沒有什麼認真的興趣？

Unfortunately, we cannot provide any details on divestment. I can ensure you all that we've been working hard, looking into all alternatives and options that we have. But again, we cannot share any further details at this point.

不幸的是，我們無法提供任何有關撤資的細節。我可以向大家保證，我們一直在努力研究所有的替代方案和選擇。但目前我們無法透露更多細節。

Another one here for you, Cassio. I have noticed that in the past few months, there has been a bigger focus from the team on the franchise model as well as new partnerships. Could you talk us through what the ultimate vision is here? Are there customer acquisition tools, retention or pure-play monetization opportunities?

卡西奧，這裡還有另一個給你。我注意到，在過去的幾個月裡，團隊更加關注特許經營模式以及新的合作關係。您能向我們講講最終的願景是什麼嗎？是否存在客戶獲取工具、保留工具或純粹的貨幣化機會？

Sure. As we've been evolving with the Customer Cloud, we understood that for companies to go deeper into the usage of the platform to create journeys that go end-to-end from marketing to sales, customer service, customer engagement, sometimes it's necessary not only to have the software available, but also to have someone by your side that is a specialist on your kind of company in your vertical, in your region and the kind of use case you're trying to evolve.

當然。隨著客戶雲端的不斷發展，我們了解到，對於公司來說，要更深入地使用該平台來創建從營銷到銷售、客戶服務、客戶參與的端到端旅程，有時不僅需要有可用的軟體，還需要有一位在您身邊的專家，他是您所在公司、您所在地區以及您正在嘗試發展的用例類型的專家。

So we always had some partners working with us to help on these use cases. But as we saw last year, this demand for more sophisticated usage of our software, we understood that there was a very interesting opportunity to evolve these partners into franchises where these partners, they not only help us to sell the platform, but also help customers to achieve their operating results.

因此，我們總是有一些合作夥伴與我們合作來幫助解決這些用例。但正如我們去年看到的那樣，對我們的軟體進行更複雜使用的需求，我們明白這是一個非常有趣的機會，可以將這些合作夥伴發展成特許經營商，這些合作夥伴不僅幫助我們銷售平台，還幫助客戶實現他們的經營業績。

So we've been evolving that model since end of last year. It's going much better than we expected, and we're aiming to scale that even more. We are not disclosing many numbers at this time, but over the next couple of months, we're going to be able to disclose how these new sales channel is performing.

因此，我們從去年年底開始就一直在改進該模型。事情比我們預期的要好得多，我們的目標是進一步擴大規模。我們目前不會透露太多數據，但在接下來的幾個月裡，我們將能夠揭露這些新銷售管道的表現。

But it's safe to say that over the next couple of quarters will become the major sales channel for Zenvia. So we're adding a new sales channel. It's performing pretty well, and I expect that will help us to achieve strong growth in the next couple of quarters.

但可以肯定地說，未來幾季它將成為 Zenvia 的主要銷售管道。因此我們正在增加一個新的銷售管道。它的表現相當不錯，我預計這將幫助我們在接下來的幾季實現強勁成長。

Thank you, Cassio. Moving forward here, will 2025 gross margin for both SaaS and CPaaS get back above '23 levels? Or will we stay below that?

謝謝你，卡西奧。展望未來，2025 年 SaaS 和 CPaaS 的毛利率是否會回到 23 年的水準之上？或者我們會保持在這個水平以下嗎？

So for those who are not in front of the numbers, just to help you guys here, the gross margin on the SaaS business in '23 was 46%. And on the CPaaS was 20 -- should be -- in '24 was 26%. So looking into '25, on the SaaS business, we should expect gross margin to be back to the levels of '23. So let's call it between 45% and 50%.

因此，對於那些不了解這些數字的人來說，只是為了幫助你們，23 年 SaaS 業務的毛利率為 46%。而在 CPaaS 上是 20 — — 應該是 — — 在 24 年是 26%。因此，展望 25 年，對於 SaaS 業務，我們預計毛利率將回到 23 年的水平。因此我們將其稱為 45% 到 50% 之間。

And on the CPaaS business, the 26% we presented in '24 should be a normalized level. So slightly below that, maybe closer to 25%. So I would say that it should be closer to '23 levels in terms of the SaaS business and close to '24 levels in terms of the -- on the CPaaS business.

對於 CPaaS 業務，我們在 24 年提出的 26% 應該是一個正常水準。略低於這個數字，可能接近 25%。因此，我認為就 SaaS 業務而言應該更接近 23 個級別，就 CPaaS 業務而言應該接近 24 個級別。

I'll keep going here. I understand you're not providing at this point any guidance for '25. So could you tell us what are your main goals or challenges for this year?

我會繼續在這裡。我知道您目前沒有為 25 年提供任何指導。那麼，您能告訴我們您今年的主要目標或挑戰是什麼嗎？

So Cassio, I'll start with pure financial, and I'll let you run through operations and strategic, okay? In terms of financials, I would say that main goals for '25, first is deleverage balance sheet and align our EBITDA -- better align our EBITDA to capital structure of the company.

那麼卡西奧，我將從純財務開始，然後讓你介紹營運和策略，好嗎？在財務方面，我想說 25 年的主要目標首先是去槓桿資產負債表並調整我們的 EBITDA——使我們的 EBITDA 更好地與公司的資本結構保持一致。

And the second thing is do better than we did in '24 in terms of EBITDA, in terms of profitability. Those are the main goals for us from a pure financial perspective. Cassio, I don't know if you want to add something in the operations or products.

第二件事是，就 EBITDA 和獲利能力而言，我們比 24 年做得更好。從純粹的財務角度來看，這些就是我們的主要目標。Cassio，我不知道您是否想在營運或產品方面添加一些內容。

Sure. Well, as you are aware, we operate in CPaaS as a mature business. Also, as I mentioned, we have the legacy SaaS that we are continuing to operate, but we expect mature growth. But when we look to Zenvia Customer Cloud, our focus of investment over the last two, three years, we are seeing an amazing performance.

當然。嗯，正如您所知，我們在 CPaaS 領域經營著一家成熟的企業。另外，正如我所提到的，我們擁有仍在繼續運營的傳統 SaaS，但我們預計它將實現成熟的成長。但當我們看向 Zenvia 客戶雲端（我們過去兩三年來的投資重點）時，我們看到了驚人的表現。

We're seeing a quick evolution of the software of customer experiences, and that is resulting into not only a strong customer acquisition, but especially more engagement from our own current customers using the software.

我們看到客戶體驗軟體正在快速發展，這不僅帶來了強大的客戶獲取能力，而且特別是帶來了使用該軟體的現有客戶的更多參與。

We're seeing more adoption of the software, I would say, at least around 0.5% -- half of our customer base using Zenvia Customer Cloud, already using for two or more use cases, meaning 10 times -- more than 10 times than what we had before Zenvia Customer Cloud.

我們看到該軟體的採用率正在提高，我想說，至少在 0.5% 左右——我們一半的客戶群正在使用 Zenvia 客戶雲，已經用於兩個或更多用例，這意味著 10 倍——比 Zenvia 客戶雲之前的使用率高出 10 倍以上。

And that not only gives us a strong retention of these customers that go into a more deep adoption, but we see that they grow their revenues with us. So this combination of a stronger customer acquisition and a deeper adoption of our software and combined with usage-based business model is generating a very interesting combination of revenue growth for Zenvia Customer Cloud.

這不僅使我們能夠很好地留住這些願意更深入採用的客戶，而且我們還看到他們的收入也隨著我們而成長。因此，更強大的客戶獲取能力、更深入地採用我們的軟體以及基於使用情況的業務模式相結合，為 Zenvia 客戶雲端帶來了非常有趣的收入成長組合。

And as gross margins for this business are pretty healthy, we are seeing that over the next couple of quarters we'll be able to make this business become the strongest portion of the whole company, generating cash. It's already EBITDA positive, and these -- all this combined gives us a very optimistic overview for 2025.

由於該業務的毛利率相當健康，我們預計在接下來的幾個季度裡，我們將能夠使該業務成為整個公司最強大的部分，產生現金。它的 EBITDA 已經是正值，所有這些結合起來讓我們對 2025 年有了非常樂觀的展望。

Thanks, Cassio. I got another one, seems to be the last one for the time being. How should we look at EBITDA margins for this year?

謝謝，卡西奧。我又得到了一個，似乎是暫時最後一個。我們該如何看待今年的EBITDA利潤率？

Same story as the gross margins. So again, we're not providing specific numbers. As I mentioned, we are targeting and one of our main goals for '25 is to improve EBITDA from what we delivered in '24. I cannot share any specific level, but I can say that we are aiming at doing better than we did in '24.

與毛利率的情況相同。因此，我們不會提供具體的數字。正如我所提到的，我們的目標是，而我們 25 年的主要目標之一是提高 24 年的 EBITDA。我無法分享任何具體的水平，但我可以說我們的目標是比 24 年做得更好。

Hugo, we have no further questions here so far.

雨果，到目前為止我們沒有其他問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

I guess that's it, Hugo.

我想就是這樣了，雨果。

Thank you, Shay. So this concludes our Q&A session. I'd like to turn the conference back over to Mr. Cassio Bobsin for his closing remarks.

謝謝你，謝伊。我們的問答環節到此結束。我想將會議交還給卡西奧·博布辛先生，請他作閉幕發言。

Thank you everyone for joining us on this call. 2024 was a very challenging year for us, and we see that, on the other side, we were able to base all the foundations during the last year that are now becoming the, basis for our 2025 high expectations.

感謝大家參加這次電話會議。 2024 年對我們來說是充滿挑戰的一年，但另一方面，我們也看到，去年我們打下了所有基礎，而這些基礎現在正成為我們對 2025 年寄予厚望的基礎。

We're seeing that the market is pretty healthy. And our performance is doing amazingly well on Q1. We expect that to continue over the next couple quarters. And so we expect to see you all of you in the next couple of weeks, so we can share our QA -- Q1 numbers. So see you and thank you very much.

我們看到市場相當健康。我們第一季的業績表現非常好。我們預計這種情況將在未來幾季持續下去。因此，我們希望在接下來的幾週內見到你們，以便我們可以分享我們的 QA——Q1 數據。所以再見，非常感謝。

The conference has now concluded. Zenvia's IR area is at your disposal to answer any additional questions. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect. Have you all a nice day.

會議現已結束。Zenvia 的 IR 區域可以為您解答任何其他問題。感謝您參加今天的演講。您現在可以斷開連線。祝大家有愉快的一天。