Willdan Group Inc (WLDN) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Willdan Group Third Quarter 2023 Financial Results Conference Call. Our host for today's call is Al Kaschalk, Vice President of Investor Relations. (Operator Instructions)

女士們、先生們，美好的一天，歡迎參加 Willdan 集團 2023 年第三季財務業績電話會議。今天電話會議的主持人是投資者關係副總裁 Al Kaschalk。 （操作員說明）

I would now like to turn the call over to your host. Mr. Kaschalk, the floor is yours.

我現在想將電話轉給您的主持人。 Kaschalk 先生，請發言。

Thank you, Martin. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to Willdan Group's Third Quarter 2023 Earnings Call. Joining our call today are Tom Brisbin, Chair and Chief Executive Officer; Kim Early, Chief Financial Officer; and Mike Bieber, President. The call today builds on our earnings release we issued after market closed today. You may find the earnings release and the Willdan Investor Report that accompanies today's call in the Press Release and Stock Information section of our Investor Relations website.

謝謝你，馬丁。大家下午好，歡迎參加 Willdan Group 2023 年第三季財報電話會議。今天加入我們電話會議的還有董事長兼執行長湯姆‧布里斯賓 (Tom Brisbin)； Kim Early，財務長；和總統麥克·比伯。今天的電話會議是基於我們今天收盤後發布的財報發布的。您可以在我們投資者關係網站的新聞稿和股票資訊部分找到今天電話會議附帶的收益發布和威爾丹投資者報告。

Management will review prepared remarks, and we will then open the call up to your questions. Statements made in the course of today's conference call, including answers to your questions, which are not purely historical, are forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. The forward-looking statements involve certain risks and uncertainties, and it is important to note that such -- it is important to note that the company's future results could differ materially from those in any such forward-looking statements.

管理層將審查準備好的發言，然後我們將在電話會議中回答您的問題。今天電話會議中所做的聲明（包括對您的問題的回答）並非純粹歷史性的，屬於1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》含義內的前瞻性聲明。前瞻性聲明涉及某些風險和不確定性，並且值得注意的是，該公司的未來業績可能與任何此類前瞻性陳述中的結果存在重大差異。

Factors that could cause actual results to differ materially and other risk factors are listed from time to time in the company's SEC reports, including, but not limited to, annual report on Form 10-K filed for the year ended December 30, 2022. The company cautions investors not to place undue reliance on the forward-looking statements made during the course of this conference call. Willdan disclaims any obligation and does not undertake to update or revise any forward-looking statements made today.

本公司的 SEC 報告中會不時列出可能導致實際結果出現重大差異的因素和其他風險因素，包括但不限於截至 2022 年 12 月 30 日提交的 10-K 表格年度報告。公司提醒投資者不要過度依賴本次電話會議期間所做的前瞻性陳述。威爾丹不承擔任何義務，也不承諾更新或修改今天發表的任何前瞻性聲明。

In addition to GAAP results, Willdan also provides non-GAAP financial measures that we believe enhance the investors' ability to analyze the business trends and performance. Our non-GAAP measures include net revenue, adjusted EBITDA and adjusted EPS.

除了 GAAP 業績外，Willdan 還提供非 GAAP 財務指標，我們相信這些指標可以增強投資者分析業務趨勢和績效的能力。我們的非公認會計準則指標包括淨收入、調整後 EBITDA 和調整後每股盈餘。

I will now turn the call over to Tom Brisbin, Willdan's Chair and CEO.

我現在將把電話轉給 Willdan 董事長兼執行長湯姆·布里斯賓 (Tom Brisbin)。

Thanks, Al, and good afternoon, everyone. Willdan's strategy is to reduce the amount of electricity and natural gas that people use. In this clean energy transition to reduce carbon, we focus on how to make this affordable for people. We work for the largest, most stable customers, for example, governments, utilities and industry, who need to reduce their energy consumption for their customers. The utility and government are under extreme pressure to make this clean energy transition affordable. This is where Willdan is primarily focused. We are not in the generation of green energy or projects that require bank financing.

謝謝阿爾，大家下午好。威爾丹的策略是減少人們使用的電力和天然氣的用量。在這個以減少碳為目標的清潔能源轉型中，我們關注的是如何讓人們負擔得起。我們為最大、最穩定的客戶服務，例如政府、公用事業和工業，他們需要為客戶減少能源消耗。公用事業公司和政府面臨巨大的壓力，要求使這種清潔能源轉型負擔得起。這是威爾丹主要關注的地方。我們不從事綠色能源生產或需要銀行融資的專案。

Very few of our projects require bank financing and are not impacted by interest rates. Our projects are generally incentivized and are affordable for people. Paybacks are generally less than 2 years and save people money. Willdan's strategy started with energy efficiency. Simply stated, use less electricity and save money. We have expanded greatly over the past 10 years. To remind everyone, we are a professional service company, helping customers solve the problems with knowledge and software.

我們的專案很少需要銀行融資且不受利率的影響。我們的專案通常都是有激勵措施的，而且人們負擔得起。投資回收期一般不超過 2 年，可以為人節省金錢。威爾丹的策略始於能源效率。簡單來說，就是少用電、省錢。過去 10 年來，我們取得了巨大的發展。提醒大家一下，我們是一家專業的服務公司，用知識和軟體幫助客戶解決問題。

We strive for affordable solutions. This word affordable cannot be stressed enough during this clean energy transition. People cannot afford significantly higher energy costs. Willdan projects help people save money. For example, our new construction contracts for utility touched 10% of all new commercial building construction in the United States. All services and software are focused on saving energy, again, the word affordable.

我們努力尋找負擔得起的解決方案。在清潔能源轉型過程中，「負擔得起」這個詞再怎麼強調也不為過。人們無法承受大幅上漲的能源成本。 Willdan 計畫幫助人們省錢。例如，我們的公用事業新建築合約占美國所有新建商業建築建築的 10%。所有服務和軟體都專注於節能，再次強調「實惠」這個詞。

Integral analytics software helps utilities modernize the grid at the least cost and highest benefit. We are agnostic to the generation source, whether it be solar, wind or batteries, and we help integrate them into the logo grid at the least cost. For one of the largest health care groups in America, we are assessing 1,200 facilities in order to reach their decarbonization goals at an affordable pace.

整合分析軟體可幫助公用事業公司以最低的成本和最高的效益實現電網現代化。我們對發電來源是不可知的，無論是太陽能、風能還是電池，我們都會幫助它們以最低的成本整合到標誌電網中。對於美國最大的醫療保健集團之一，我們正在評估 1,200 個設施，以便以可承受的速度實現其脫碳目標。

For New York City, we completed the study for their 4,000 buildings. Using proprietary software, we prioritize what building and measures should be done first within their budget. The common theme to our clean energy transition strategy has been an affordable reduction of carbon. Our strategy has always been to reduce the load on the grid and shift the demand. Our current electrification projects that increase the load are being coupled with demand response. This is where we can shift the load away from the time of day when electricity is expensive, again, focused on affordable.

對於紐約市，我們完成了 4,000 棟建築的研究。使用專有軟體，我們可以優先考慮在預算範圍內應首先完成的建設和措施。我們清潔能源轉型策略的共同主題是經濟實惠的碳減量。我們的策略始終是減少電網負載並轉移需求。我們目前增加負荷的電氣化項目正在與需求響應相結合。在這裡，我們可以將負載從一天中電費昂貴的時間轉移出去，再次集中在負擔得起的地方。

I want our investors, employees and customers to recognize what role we play in this decarbonization journey. Simply stated, affordable clean energy. It is a tough assignment. We have 1,600 really smart people for taking on this challenge. Our business is growing again post-COVID. Results of the last 4 quarters are evidence. Last quarter, we had a record trailing 12 months of EBITDA. Again, in this third quarter of 2023, we delivered another trailing 12-month record.

我希望我們的投資者、員工和客戶認識到我們在脫碳之旅中扮演的角色。簡而言之，負擔得起的清潔能源。這是一項艱鉅的任務。我們有 1,600 名非常聰明的人來應對這項挑戰。新冠疫情過後，我們的業務再次成長。過去 4 個季度的結果就是證據。上個季度，我們創下了連續 12 個月的 EBITDA 紀錄。在 2023 年第三季度，我們再次創下了 12 個月以來的新紀錄。

For the third quarter, we continued our solid performance. Our focused execution across the organization drove double-digit increases versus the prior year in nearly all of our key metrics. The team is converting this organic revenue growth 11% for the quarter and 17% for 9 months through profit and cash flow.

第三季度，我們持續保持穩健的業績。我們整個組織的集中執行力使幾乎所有關鍵指標與前一年相比實現了兩位數的成長。該團隊透過利潤和現金流將本季有機收入成長 11% 和 9 個月有機收入成長 17% 轉化為有機收入成長。

Our strategy is working. I would like to share some of the many opportunities we are capturing, supporting our expanding backlog. We are sharing these new projects to give our investors confidence that our strategy has the momentum to continue our growth through 2024 and beyond. Despite the higher interest rates that are delaying and terminating large-scale projects, dependent on financing, our affordable solutions model is growing.

我們的策略正在發揮作用。我想分享我們正在抓住的眾多機會中的一些機會，以支持我們不斷擴大的積壓工作。我們分享這些新項目是為了讓投資者相信我們的策略有動力在 2024 年及以後繼續成長。儘管利率上升導致依賴融資的大型專案被推遲和終止，但我們負擔得起的解決方案模型仍在不斷發展。

Here are some examples. Our Engineering segments are winning new projects and geographies as well as integrating the energy transition that cities are embracing. Organic growth in this segment is 15% for the quarter. And for 9 months, it is also 15%. Our Integral Analytics software group is having a great year, and their pipeline for '24 looks strong. We believe IA is getting better at selling, and the software and the demand is increasing.

這裡有些例子。我們的工程部門正在贏得新項目和地區，並整合城市正在擁抱的能源轉型。本季該細分市場的有機成長率為 15%。而9個月，也是15%。我們的 Integral Analytics 軟體團隊度過了美好的一年，他們的 '24 管道看起來很強大。我們相信 IA 的銷售能力越來越強，軟體和需求也不斷增加。

Our Performance Engineering Group has won several new jobs that will be announced over the coming weeks. This service is being cross sold very effectively throughout the organization. Our utility programs are doing -- or, I should say are going well. We have successfully restructured the California IOU programs. All recompetes this year were successfully won. We have also gained new utilities in the Midwest and Northeast. Our engineering work in the Northeast, our New York City Housing Authority, NYCHA; the New York Power Authority and the Dormitory Authority of the State of New York are doing well and growing.

我們的性能工程團隊贏得了幾項新職位，這些職位將在未來幾週內公佈。這項服務正在整個組織內非常有效地交叉銷售。我們的實用程式正在運行——或者，我應該說進展順利。我們已經成功重組了加州 IOU 計劃。今年的複賽全部順利獲勝。我們還在中西部和東北部獲得了新的公用事業。我們在東北部的工程工作，我們的紐約市住房管理局，NYCHA；紐約電力局和紐約州宿舍管理局表現良好並且不斷發展。

Summarizing our performance to date, the Willdan organization has recovered. It is functioning very well. We look to our E3 Group to continue leading us during this energy transition. We also anticipate looking to E3 to add capabilities in 2024. In closing, demand for our services remain healthy, led by the energy transition and demand for municipalities.

總結我們迄今為止的表現，威爾丹組織已經恢復了。它運作良好。我們期待 E3 集團在這能源轉型過程中繼續引領我們。我們也預期 E3 在 2024 年增加功能。最後，在能源轉型和市政需求的帶動下，對我們服務的需求保持健康。

Given the strength in our end markets, our impressive year-to-date performance and our expectation for the momentum to continue, we are raising our 2023 guidance. Our strong financial position, further amplified by the successful refinancing of our credit facilities, puts us in a position to actively pursue strategic acquisitions that align with our business objectives.

鑑於我們終端市場的實力、年初至今令人印象深刻的業績以及我們對這一勢頭持續下去的預期，我們正在上調 2023 年的指導。我們強大的財務狀況，加上我們信貸額度的成功再融資，使我們能夠積極尋求符合我們業務目標的策略性收購。

I am confident that by executing our strategy, we are positioning the company to deliver strong long-term shareholder returns. I want to thank our employees, customers and stockholders for your support.

我相信，透過執行我們的策略，我們將使公司能夠為股東帶來強勁的長期回報。我要感謝我們的員工、客戶和股東的支持。

I will now turn the call over to Kim, who will provide additional details on our financial results and our updated guidance.

我現在將把電話轉給 Kim，他將提供有關我們的財務業績和最新指導的更多詳細資訊。

Thanks, Tom, and good afternoon, everyone. Q3 reflects strong earnings performance and strengthening financial conditions. For the 9 months year-to-date, we generated $28.2 million in adjusted EBITDA and $24.1 million in cash flow from operations. The $28.2 million of adjusted EBITDA is a company record for the first 9 months of the year and the $40 million in trailing 12-month adjusted EBITDA is also a record.

謝謝湯姆，大家下午好。第三季反映了強勁的獲利表現和不斷增強的財務狀況。今年迄今的 9 個月中，我們的調整後 EBITDA 為 2,820 萬美元，營運現金流為 2,410 萬美元。 2820 萬美元的調整後 EBITDA 創下了今年前 9 個月的公司紀錄，過去 12 個月調整後 EBITDA 的 4000 萬美元也創下了紀錄。

Continued strong execution drove the improvement in operating results, providing the means to further delever the business and bring our leverage ratio to 2.2x adjusted EBITDA as of the end of the quarter. This helped us complete the refinancing of our credit facilities during the quarter, thereby putting us in a position to continue the pursuit of strategic acquisition opportunities.

持續強勁的執行力推動了經營業績的改善，為進一步去槓桿化業務提供了手段，並使我們的槓桿率截至本季末調整後 EBITDA 達到 2.2 倍。這幫助我們在本季度完成了信貸安排的再融資，使我們能夠繼續尋求策略性收購機會。

We recently closed on a small addition to our Municipal Engineering segment that broadens our service offering, and we're currently seeking additional acquisition opportunities. For Q3, gross revenue was up 9.3% over Q3 2022 to a record $132.7 million. Net revenue was up 10.8% to a record $65.3 million, fueled by our strong backlog and continuing demand across the broad range of our services.

我們最近完成了市政工程部門的小規模擴張，擴大了我們的服務範圍，目前我們正在尋求更多收購機會。第三季的總營收比 2022 年第三季成長 9.3%，達到創紀錄的 1.327 億美元。在我們大量的積壓訂單和廣泛服務的持續需求的推動下，淨收入增長了 10.8%，達到創紀錄的 6530 萬美元。

We saw an 8% revenue growth in our Energy segment gross revenue, while the Engineering and Consulting segment grew revenues more than 10% over the prior year for the fifth consecutive quarter. Q3 gross profit was 16% higher year-over-year as gross margin improved to 32.7% in Q3 2023 versus 30.9% a year ago, reflecting the restructured California IOU contracts and improved productivity throughout the business.

我們的能源部門總收入成長了 8%，而工程和諮詢部門的收入連續第五個季度比去年同期成長了 10% 以上。第三季毛利年增 16%，2023 年第三季毛利率從一年前的 30.9% 提高至 32.7%，反映出加州 IOU 合約的重組和整個業務生產力的提高。

Despite the strong growth in revenues, Q3 G&A expenses were up only 3.4% versus the same period a year ago with lower stock compensation, depreciation and interest accretion on earn-out liabilities, partially offsetting higher employee compensation. Interest expense on the other hand increased 70% to $2.4 million in 2023 from $1.4 million a year ago, due to the higher interest rates.

儘管收入強勁增長，但第三季度的一般管理費用僅比去年同期增長了 3.4%，股票薪酬、折舊和盈餘負債的利息增加減少，部分抵消了員工薪酬的上升。另一方面，由於利率上升，利息支出從一年前的 140 萬美元增加到 2023 年的 240 萬美元，增加了 70%。

Our income tax rate was 31% in the third quarter compared to a tax benefit of 105% for the third quarter of 2022. So for the third quarter, net income was $1.6 million or $0.11 per diluted share versus net income of $76,000 or $0.01 per diluted share a year ago. Adjusted EBITDA in Q3 of this year was $10.1 million, up 27% over the $8.0 million in Q3 of 2022. Adjusted earnings per share in Q3 of this year was $0.37 versus $0.42 in Q3 a year ago, mainly reflecting the difference in tax rates.

我們第三季的所得稅稅率為31%，而2022 年第三季的稅收優惠為105%。因此，第三季的淨利為160 萬美元，即稀釋後每股收益0.11 美元，而淨利為76,000 美元，即每股稀釋收益0.01 美元。一年前的稀釋份額。今年第三季調整後EBITDA 為1,010 萬美元，比2022 年第三季的800 萬美元成長27%。今年第三季調整後每股收益為0.37 美元，而去年同期為0.42 美元，主要反映了稅率的差異。

In terms of the 9 months ended September 2023 versus the 9 months of September 2022, gross revenue was up 12.2% to $354.4 million, and net revenue was up 16.6% to $188.9 million, with solid growth across all our service lines and increasing momentum supported by a strong backlog. Gross profit increased 25% as gross margin improved to 35.4% in 2023 compared to 31.8% a year ago, driven by higher software licensing and improved performance on our utility contracts.

截至2023 年9 月的9 個月與2022 年9 月的9 個月相比，總營收成長12.2%，達到3.544 億美元，淨收入成長16.6%，達到1.889 億美元，我們所有服務線均穩健成長，並支持不斷增長的勢頭大量的積壓。受軟體許可增加和公用事業合約績效改善的推動，毛利成長了 25%，毛利率從一年前的 31.8% 提高到 2023 年的 35.4%。

We realized significant operating leverage in the period as G&A expenses increased only 2.6% versus the same period a year ago, while the net revenues had grown 16.6%. Higher employee incentive compensation, consistent with the improvement in income from operations, was partially offset by lower stock-based compensation and lower interest accretion on earn-out liabilities, which have now all been satisfied.

我們在此期間實現了龐大的營運槓桿，因為一般管理費用與去年同期相比僅成長了 2.6%，而淨收入卻成長了 16.6%。較高的員工激勵薪酬與營運收入的改善一致，但部分被較低的股票薪酬和較低的盈餘負債利息增值所抵消，這些目前均已滿足。

Interest expense increased by $3.9 million to $7.1 million for the 9 months ended September 2023 compared to $3.2 million in the same period a year ago, due to the higher interest rates. And year-to-date income tax expense was $1.7 million or an effective rate of 37% compared to an income tax benefit of $5.6 million on the loss in 2022. The relatively high effective tax rate reflects the impact of certain reduced deductions in prior year returns resulting from the lower stock price on the stock compensation which vested in the first quarter of this year.

截至 2023 年 9 月的 9 個月，由於利率上升，利息支出增加了 390 萬美元，達到 710 萬美元，而去年同期為 320 萬美元。年初至今所得稅費用為 170 萬美元，有效稅率為 37%，而 2022 年虧損的所得稅優惠為 560 萬美元。相對較高的有效稅率反映了上一年某些扣除額減少的影響由於今年第一季歸屬的股票補償股價較低，導致報酬率下降。

For all of 2023, we now expect an effective tax rate of approximately 29%. Thus, year-to-date net income was $2.9 million or $0.21 per diluted share compared to a loss of $8.0 million or $0.62 per share in 2022. Improved results throughout the company enabled a significant turnaround. Our balance sheet also reflects the benefits of our improved earnings and the higher cash flows.

我們現在預計 2023 年全年的有效稅率約為 29%。因此，年初至今的淨利潤為 290 萬美元，即每股攤薄收益 0.21 美元，而 2022 年則虧損 800 萬美元，即每股 0.62 美元。整個公司業績的改善實現了重大轉變。我們的資產負債表也反映了我們獲利改善和現金流增加的好處。

At the end of September 2023, our leverage ratio improved significantly to 2.2x trailing 12-month adjusted EBITDA, and net debt was $86.5 million. During the quarter, we paid off the $5 million outstanding under our line of credit while maintaining a healthy $12.9 million cash balance at the end of the quarter.

截至 2023 年 9 月底，我們的槓桿率大幅改善至過去 12 個月調整後 EBITDA 的 2.2 倍，淨債務為 8,650 萬美元。本季度，我們還清了信用額度下的 500 萬美元未償債務，同時在季度末保持了 1,290 萬美元的健康現金餘額。

On September 29, we completed the refinancing of our bank credit facilities and entered into a new 3-year credit agreement with a syndicate of 5 banks jointly led by BMO and JPMorgan. We used the proceeds from the credit agreement's term loan to repay and terminate the prior credit agreement, which was scheduled to mature on June 26, 2024.

9月29日，我們完成了銀行信貸額度的再融資，並與BMO和摩根大通牽頭的5家銀行銀團簽訂了新的3年信貸協議。我們使用信貸協議定期貸款的收益來償還和終止先前的信貸協議，該協議計劃於 2024 年 6 月 26 日到期。

This well is to fund the fees and expenses associated with the refinancing. The new credit facilities will provide working capital, finance capital expenditures and acquisitions and serve other general corporate purposes to continue to grow the company. As of the end of September and currently, there were no outstanding borrowings under our $50 million revolving credit facility.

這口井是為了資助與再融資相關的費用和開支。新的信貸安排將提供營運資金，為資本支出和收購提供資金，並服務於其他一般企業目的，以繼續發展公司。截至 9 月底和目前，我們的 5,000 萬美元循環信貸額度下沒有未償還借款。

With the performance delivered year-to-date and our expectations for a strong fourth quarter, we're raising our 2023 financial guidance. For all of 2023, we now expect net revenue growth of 10% to 12%, implying net revenue in the range of $250 million to $255 million. Adjusted EBITDA is now expected to be in the range of $40 million to $42 million, implying a fourth quarter EBITDA of $12 million to $14 million, and adjusted diluted earnings per share in the range of $1.33 to $1.38.

鑑於今年迄今的業績表現以及我們對第四季度強勁表現的預期，我們正在上調 2023 年的財務指引。對於 2023 年全年，我們目前預計淨收入將成長 10% 至 12%，這意味著淨收入在 2.5 億美元至 2.55 億美元之間。目前預計調整後 EBITDA 為 4,000 萬至 4,200 萬美元，這意味著第四季度 EBITDA 為 1,200 萬至 1,400 萬美元，調整後攤薄每股收益為 1.33 至 1.38 美元。

We're raising our estimated full year tax rate to 29% and assuming a diluted share count of 13.7 million. Our capital expenditures are expected to be in the range of $10 million to $12 million.

我們將預計全年稅率提高至 29%，並假設稀釋後的股票數量為 1,370 萬股。我們的資本支出預計在 1000 萬至 1200 萬美元之間。

Operator, we're now prepared to answer questions.

接線員，我們現在準備回答問題。

(Operator Instructions) Your first question comes from Craig Irwin with ROTH MKM.

（操作員說明）您的第一個問題來自 ROTH MKM 的 Craig Irwin。

Congratulations on another really strong quarter here.

祝賀又一個強勁的季度。

Craig, this is (inaudible). You're breaking up a little bit. Could you get a bit closer and start over?

克雷格，這是（聽不清楚）。你們有點分手了。你能靠近一點然後重新開始嗎？

I wanted to say congratulations on another really strong quarter here to start. Is that clear?

我想說祝賀又一個非常強勁的季度開始。明白了嗎？

You came it loud and clear. You can say it again, if you want.

你的聲音響亮而清晰。如果你願意的話，你可以再說一次。

It's great job. How's that?

這是很棒的工作。怎麼樣？

All right.

好的。

Yes. So Tom, I really appreciate that you hit the interest rate question head on, right, in your prepared remarks. There's a lot of chatter out there with investors. People are looking at the solar industry and the wind industry and knowing that there's a lot of projects that are kind of being pulled off the table because interest rates have gone too high for those to be profitable to finance. But you're beating numbers, raising guidance. Obviously, your customer base out there is still doing quite a lot of consulting activity looking at renewables and other projects that they want to develop.

是的。湯姆，我真的很感激你在準備好的發言中直擊利率問題。與投資者有很多討論。人們正在關注太陽能產業和風能產業，並知道有很多項目被取消，因為利率太高，無法為這些項目提供融資。但你正在超越數字，提高指導。顯然，您的客戶群仍在進行大量諮詢活動，專注於再生能源和他們想要開發的其他項目。

Can you maybe talk a little bit more about the character of these projects? Are they likely to just maybe take 1 or 2 scoops less of a different flavor of ice cream than solar or something? Are we looking at maybe slightly smaller projects? And how do you see this interest rate environment impacting the broader opportunity set that Willdan's supporting its customers and addressing?

能多談談這些項目的特色嗎？他們可能比太陽能或其他東西少吃一兩匙不同口味的冰淇淋？我們是否正在考慮稍微小一點的項目？您如何看待這種利率環境對 Willdan 支援客戶和應對的更廣泛機會集的影響？

Craig, that's three questions in there. Mike's going to take a couple. I just want to start off with we would like to differentiate ourselves from the solar industry that is so tied to interest rates. Do you think we've done that and what we've said?

克雷格，那是三個問題。麥克要帶幾個。我只想先說，我們希望將自己與與利率密切相關的太陽能產業區分開來。您認為我們已經做到了這一點以及我們所說過的話嗎？

I think it's very clear, yes.

我認為這很清楚，是的。

It's very clear. So your next question was what solar projects are we done? I think was your next question. And...

非常清楚。那麼您的下一個問題是我們做了哪些太陽能專案？我想這是你的下一個問題。和...

That will address it in one way, I guess.

我想這會以一種方式解決這個問題。

All right. Well, we do very few. If it's a customer like a hospital or something that wants solar, but we will do it. Solar is not what we're doing. We're helping them decide what they should do, but we're not in that business. Mike, do you want -- a few products where we are doing solar or battery, it's so small.

好的。嗯，我們做的很少。如果是像醫院或其他需要太陽能的客戶，我們會這樣做。太陽能不是我們正在做的事情。我們正在幫助他們決定應該做什麼，但我們不從事這項業務。麥克，你想要一些我們正在做太陽能或電池的產品嗎，它太小了。

There are additions to bigger projects that focus on decarbonization or energy efficiency channel.

還有一些專注於脫碳或能源效率管道的大型專案。

Yes. And I don't know what you're looking for with that question, Craig. But I want to make sure we really make it clear that we're consulting, helping people decide what they should do. And when -- and that big hospital chain I talked to, they want to do a project unless their IRR is 11%. So we are scraping through their 1,200 facilities trying to show them what they can do with incentives and other things to meet their internal rate of returns. And that's the type of work we do.

是的。我不知道你問這個問題的目的是什麼，克雷格。但我想確保我們確實明確表示我們正在提供諮詢，幫助人們決定他們應該做什麼。當我採訪過的那個大型連鎖醫院時，他們想做一個項目，除非他們的 IRR 是 11%。因此，我們正在仔細研究他們的 1,200 個設施，試圖向他們展示如何利用激勵措施和其他措施來滿足其內部回報率。這就是我們所做的工作類型。

We also do with the utilities, all these commercial buildings and commercial customers, small businesses, they're all getting incentives that are part of the special purpose tax, where the money is already there. In California, it's $1 billion; New Jersey, it's $1 billion; new York, it's almost $1 billion. And so we're working off some money that's already there. It doesn't require bank financing susceptible to interest rates.

我們也與公用事業公司、所有這些商業建築和商業客戶、小型企業合作，他們都獲得了特殊用途稅的激勵措施，這些錢已經在那裡了。在加州，這一數字為 10 億美元；新澤西州，10億美元；紐約，將近10億美元。所以我們正在動用一些已經存在的資金。它不需要易受利率影響的銀行融資。

And the third part of your question, Craig, was?

克雷格，你問題的第三部分是？

Well, how do you see this impact in the project sizes and project velocity that Willdan is addressing? Obviously, it doesn't change the count of the number of total hospitals out there. 1,200 for one is pretty good. But do you imagine this -- shrinking the number of hospitals that would be considering a proper analysis that Willdan would do to review their options as far as energy efficiency and renewables? I can't imagine that scenario, but maybe you can talk us through whether or not interest rates address -- whether or not they impact the total opportunity consulting for hospitals across the country?

那麼，您如何看待 Willdan 正在解決的專案規模和專案速度的影響？顯然，這並沒有改變醫院總數的統計。 1200一個人已經很不錯了。但你能想像這種情況嗎——考慮威爾丹進行適當分析以審查他們在能源效率和可再生能源方面的選擇的醫院數量會減少嗎？我無法想像這種情況，但也許你可以告訴我們利率是否會影響全國各地醫院的整體諮詢機會？

I can't see it because they're highly driven by 2030 and 2050 decarbonization goals. They're actually looking for more help, in my opinion, to try to figure out how to get there with their financial crunch. So we are not seeing any decline in their interest or just seeing more motivation on how they get there. And that requires actually like our E3 Group a lot smarter people because they know what's coming in the future, they help these companies see it, and then they dig through all the possibilities, whether it be the IRA money, incentive money in the utilities. So I don't see it shrinking that problem because we all have goals to meet. Mike, do you have anything to add to that?

我看不到這一點，因為它們受到 2030 年和 2050 年脫碳目標的高度驅動。在我看來，他們實際上正在尋求更多幫助，試圖找出如何應對財務危機的方法。因此，我們沒有看到他們的興趣有任何下降，或者只是看到他們實現這一目標的動力更多。這實際上需要像我們的 E3 集團這樣更聰明的人，因為他們知道未來會發生什麼，他們幫助這些公司看到它，然後他們挖掘所有的可能性，無論是 IRA 資金還是公用事業的激勵資金。所以我不認為它會縮小這個問題，因為我們都有目標要實現。麥克，你還有什麼要補充的嗎？

No. And it partially explains why our results are getting stronger and stronger as interest rates have gone up 5%. There's no correlation. The projects are dropping off or getting more difficult, we're actually accelerating right now.

不。這部分解釋了為什麼隨著利率上漲 5%，我們的業績變得越來越強勁。沒有相關性。專案正在減少或變得更加困難，我們現在實際上正在加速。

Excellent. That actually -- that answers what I was going to put up as my next question a little bit, but maybe I'll ask in a slightly different way. So typically, during periods of economic weakness, you mentioned the financial crunch, Tom. The CFOs of different institutions take a look and say, where can I save money? Now Willdan's energy efficiency business exists because it delivers verifiable savings to the customers.

出色的。實際上，這稍微回答了我將要提出的下一個問題，但也許我會以稍微不同的方式提出問題。湯姆，在經濟疲軟時期，你通常會提到金融危機。不同機構的CFO一看就說，哪裡可以省錢？現在，Willdan 的能源效率業務之所以存在，是因為它為客戶提供了可驗證的節省。

So can you maybe talk about the tempo of activity away even from some of these IRA or renewables-related projects? Are you seeing sort of the countercyclical impact of sort of economic weakness, interest rate -- higher interest rates and these other factors in the environment driving an elevated tempo of activity across your customer base?

那麼，您能否談談一些 IRA 或再生能源相關項目以外的活動節奏？您是否看到經濟疲軟、利率上升以及環境中的其他因素導致整個客戶群的活動節奏加快而產生的反週期影響？

Well, we've said before, we're doing 0 to very few IRA-type projects that might pick up in the future. How that slows down? We don't know. We see money coming through the green banks for financing. I think this whole strategy that we've talked about here was preparing for this day, given our 2007, '08 experience, most of every part of what we do in Willdan now. We went right through the recession '07, '08 and '09 without a hit. And we haven't seen one yet. We have a little bit of coal mine here with the Engineering business. As I told you, they're up 11%, 12%, 13%.

好吧，我們之前說過，我們正在做 0 到極少數 IRA 類型的項目，這些項目將來可能會增加。怎麼減慢了？我們不知道。我們看到資金透過綠色銀行進行融資。我認為，考慮到我們 2007 年、08 年的經驗以及我們現在在威爾丹所做的大部分工作，我們在這裡討論的整個策略都是為這一天做準備。我們經歷了 07 年、08 年和 09 年的經濟衰退，但沒有受到任何打擊。我們還沒有看到一個。我們這裡有一點煤礦，從事工程業務。正如我告訴過你的，它們上漲了 11%、12%、13%。

There's a couple of explanations that we have hypothesized what's going on in this economy. One, it's harder to get people. So these municipalities versus '07-'08 are using our people outsourcing it. We always (inaudible) that we figure out outsourcing is cheaper than hiring. And maybe with the way the retirement structures are in municipalities, they finally figured out they can't afford to pay for 1 physician 2 or 3 people, the retirement.

我們假設了當前經濟中正在發生的事情，有幾種解釋。一是招人難。因此，這些城市與 07-08 年正在使用我們的人員進行外包。我們總是（聽不清楚）認為外包比僱用便宜。也許按照市政當局的退休結構，他們最終發現自己無法支付 1 名醫生 2 或 3 人的退休費用。

So we see -- we're not seeing what we thought we would see in municipalities. It's actually increasing when we think it should be decreasing. So I think we're the trend the right way. As Mike said, the numbers show we are. And I don't know if I completely got this question, Mike. Have you got anything to add to that?

所以我們看到——我們沒有看到我們想像中會在市政當局看到的情況。當我們認為它應該減少時，它實際上正在增​​加。所以我認為我們的趨勢是正確的。正如麥克所說，數字表明我們確實如此。我不知道我是否完全明白這個問題，麥克。您還有什麼要補充的嗎？

We don't know whether higher interest rates are accelerating our business or not yet. I don't think we have enough data that was exactly what your question was, I think, Craig, but we are accelerating and there are higher interest rates. How about that?

我們還不知道更高的利率是否會加速我們的業務發展。克雷格，我認為我們沒有足夠的數據來回答你的問題，但我們正在加速，利率也更高。那個怎麼樣？

When can higher interest rates ever help anyone.

更高的利率什麼時候才能幫助任何人？

Yes. Saving energy would.

是的。節省能源會。

Saving energy would be yes. But I know interest rates are never good -- never any good for anyone.

節省能源是肯定的。但我知道利率從來都不是好事——對任何人都沒有好處。

Understood. Understood. No, you guys are definitely showing momentum. So then last question, if I may. Can you give us a quick update on Integral Analytics? This is obviously a real gem at Willdan and can be lumpy from time to time. Is there anything in front of commissions right now that you think is notable that we should get an update on? Or is there anything, given this elevated level of activity for planning for renewables, are we likely to see some of these contracts be awarded before the end of the year?

明白了。明白了。不，你們肯定表現出了勢頭。那麼最後一個問題，如果可以的話。能給我們簡單介紹一下 Integral Analytics 的最新情況嗎？這顯然是威爾丹的一顆真正的寶石，但有時會出現凹凸不平的情況。您認為目前面臨的委員會有什麼值得注意的事情需要我們了解最新情況嗎？或者，考慮到再生能源規劃活動的增加，我們是否有可能在年底前看到其中一些合約的授予？

We have a great pipeline right now, and it's going to carry over into 2024. I'm not going to get into specifics because we're in the middle of specifics on a few of these. And it is possible some would be executed and announced before the end of '24 -- or '23 rather. We're also carrying a great pipeline into 2024. These states are in places where distributed energy is a bigger proportion of generation pressuring the utilities to modernize and adopt tools like IA software. So there's strong demand that is increasing in new states that we have not worked before.

我們現在有一個很棒的管道，並將延續到 2024 年。我不打算透露具體細節，因為我們正在研究其中一些具體細節。有些可能會在 24 年底或更確切地說 23 年底前執行和宣布。我們還將在 2024 年推出一條龐大的管道。這些州的分散式能源在發電中所佔比例較大，迫使公用事業公司現代化並採用 IA 軟體等工具。因此，我們以前沒有工作過的新州的需求正在增加。

(Operator Instructions) Your next question comes from Richard Eisenberg, a Private Investor.

（操作員說明）您的下一個問題來自私人投資者 Richard Eisenberg。

Should we expect any sizable acquisitions in the fourth quarter or in the first quarter of next year?

我們是否應該預期第四季或明年第一季會有大規模收購？

Well, Richard, I don't know. If we know you, met you on the road. Who are you with if you can say or you just like the answer to question.

嗯，理查德，我不知道。如果我們認識你，就在路上遇見了你。如果你可以說或你只是喜歡問題的答案，那麼你和誰在一起。

I'm a private investor.

我是一名私人投資者。

Okay. Go ahead, Mike.

好的。繼續吧，麥克。

We don't forecast acquisitions and none is in guidance or in the raise I want to point that out. We announced and when we closed them having said that, we just got our credit facility renegotiated. We're just starting to reinitiate our acquisition process. It's possible we could have acquisitions soon, but we're just starting the reinitiation process, and it's more likely that it will be later in 2024, but not out of the question that it's earlier.

我們不預測收購，也沒有任何指導或加薪，我想指出這一點。我們宣布了這一點，當我們關閉它們時，我們剛剛重新談判了我們的信貸安排。我們剛開始重新啟動收購流程。我們可能很快就會進行收購，但我們剛開始重新啟動流程，更有可能是在 2024 年晚些時候，但也不排除會更早。

Congratulations on a good quarter.

恭喜您度過了一個美好的季度。

Thank you for being an investor.

感謝您成為投資者。

At this time, it appears there are no further questions. I would now like to turn the call back over to management for any closing remarks.

目前看來沒有其他問題了。我現在想將電話轉回給管理階層，讓他們發表結束語。

Well, thank you, all, who are on the phone, employees, shareholders, possibly customers. It's great working with all of you. It's been a great year, and things are improving here in Willdan, and we hope to keep you going. So thank you very much.

好吧，謝謝所有打電話的人，員工、股東，也可能是客戶。與大家一起工作真是太好了。這是美好的一年，威爾丹的情況正在改善，我們希望讓您繼續前進。非常感謝。

This concludes today's Willdan Group Third Quarter 2023 Financial Results Conference Call. Thank you for attending, and have a wonderful rest of your day.

今天的威爾丹集團 2023 年第三季財務業績電話會議到此結束。感謝您的出席，祝您有個愉快的一天。