Wisekey International Holding AG (WKEY) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Wisekey International Holding full year 2024 financial results earnings conference call.

女士們、先生們，大家好，歡迎參加 Wisekey International Holding 2024 年全年財務業績收益電話會議。

As a reminder, this call contains forward-looking statements. Such statements involve certain known and unknown risks, uncertainties, and other factors which could cause the actual results, financial condition, performance, or achievements of Wise Key International Holding Limited to be materially different from any future results, performance, or achievements, expressed or implied, by such forward-looking statements. Wisekey is providing this communication as of this date and does not undertake to update any forward-looking statements contained herein as a result of new information, future events, or otherwise.

提醒一下，本次電話會議包含前瞻性陳述。該等陳述涉及某些已知和未知的風險、不確定性和其他因素，可能導致 Wise Key International Holding Limited 的實際結果、財務狀況、業績或成就與此等前瞻性陳述所表達或暗示的任何未來結果、業績或成就存在重大差異。Wisekey 自此日期起提供此通訊，並未承諾根據新資訊、未來事件或其他原因更新此處包含的任何前瞻性陳述。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It's now my pleasure to introduce Carlos Moreira, Founder and Chief Executive Officer of Wisekey. Sir, please go ahead.

提醒一下，本次會議正在錄製中。現在我很高興介紹 Wisekey 的創辦人兼執行長 Carlos Moreira。先生，請繼續。

Good afternoon to all of you joining us today from Europe and good morning to all of you joining us from the United States. I am joined today by our Chief Financial Officer, John O'Hara. I'll start this call by providing highlights of the company performance and subsidiary level initiatives for the full year 2024 and outlook for '25. Then John will provide a full report on our financial condition in greater details.

今天從歐洲加入我們的各位下午好，今天從美國加入我們的各位早安。今天和我一起出席的是我們的財務長約翰‧奧哈拉 (John O'Hara)。我將在本次電話會議上首先介紹公司 2024 年全年業績和子公司層面的舉措以及 2025 年的展望。然後約翰將更詳細地提供關於我們財務狀況的完整報告。

Before I start, for all of you new to the Wisekey story, I would like to provide a short overview of the corporate structure. Wisekey specializes in cybersecurity, digital identity, blockchain, internet of things, IoT solution, and post-quantum semiconductor.

在我開始之前，對於所有剛了解 Wisekey 故事的人，我想簡要概述一下公司結構。Wisekey 專注於網路安全、數位身分、區塊鏈、物聯網、物聯網解決方案和後量子半導體。

As a computer infrastructure provider, Wisekey delivers secure platforms for data and device management across various industries including finance, healthcare, defense, and government. Leveraging its robust cybersecurity and public infrastructure PTI, Wisekey ensures traditional encrypted communication and a strong authentication while also focusing on next-generation security throughout post-quantum cryptography.

作為電腦基礎設施提供商，Wisekey 為金融、醫療保健、國防和政府等各個行業的數據和設備管理提供安全平台。Wisekey 利用其強大的網路安全和公共基礎設施 PTI，確保傳統的加密通訊和強大的身份驗證，同時也專注於後量子密碼學的下一代安全。

Wisekey Holding Company encompassing several specialized operational subsidiaries. Each subsidiary plays a crucial role in the Wisekey ecosystem contributing throughout independent research, development, and expertise while integrating their technology into overall Wisekey platform.

Wisekey 控股公司旗下有多家專業營運子公司。每個子公司在 Wisekey 生態系統中都發揮著至關重要的作用，透過獨立研究、開發和專業知識做出貢獻，同時將其技術整合到整個 Wisekey 平台中。

These are, specifically, SEALSQ, which was listed on the Nasdaq in May 2023 under the symbol LAES, which focuses on advanced semiconductor technology and post-quantum cryptography. WISeID offers Root of Trust and PTI services central to the Wisekey digital identity and encryption services.

具體來說，SEALSQ 於 2023 年 5 月在納斯達克上市，股票代碼為 LAES，專注於先進的半導體技術和後量子密碼學。WISeID 提供 Wisekey 數位身分和加密服務的核心信任根和 PTI 服務。

WISeSaT offers a space technology division utilizing picosatellite for secure communication from space. WISe.ART is the trusted blockchain and NFT segment of the group offering secure digital asset solution. And then SEALCOIN AG, which incorporated in 2024 in Switzerland, develops the SEALCOIN platform and focuses on the decentralized physical internet DP.

WISeSaT 設有太空技術部門，利用皮衛星進行太空安全通訊。WISe.ART 是該集團值得信賴的區塊鏈和 NFT 部門，提供安全的數位資產解決方案。隨後，SEALCOIN AG於2024年在瑞士註冊成立，開發SEALCOIN平台，專注於去中心化的實體互聯網DP。

That said, '24 has been a pivotal year for Wisekey. We ended the year with a very strong balance sheet, a strategic technology milestones, and a clear road map to take advantage of the new opportunities ahead.

儘管如此，24 年對 Wisekey 來說仍然是關鍵的一年。我們以非常強勁的資產負債表、戰略技術里程碑和清晰的路線圖結束了這一年，以利用未來的新機會。

From launching 17 secure satellite in partnership with the SpaceX and further advancing negotiation or semiconductor personalization center strategy to scaling or blockchain platforms and developing post-quantum chips, we have created a solid foundation across every layer of digital trust infrastructure.

從與SpaceX合作發射17顆安全衛星，到進一步推進談判或半導體個人化中心策略，再到擴展或區塊鏈平台和開發後量子晶片，我們在數位信任基礎設施的每一層都建立了堅實的基礎。

We started in 2025 on a very strong note and have now entered what I define as the year of Wisekey convergence. This is more than a strategy; it is a paradigm shift. We are bringing together four foundational pillars: semiconductors, satellites, blockchain, and digital identity into a unified and interoperable ecosystem.

我們以非常強勁的勢頭從 2025 年開始進入我所定義的 Wisekey 融合之年。這不僅僅是一種策略；這是一種範式轉移。我們將四大基礎支柱：半導體、衛星、區塊鏈和數位身分整合成一個統一且可互通的生態系統。

This convergence allows us to offer end-to-end solutions where each component reinforces the other, enabling exponential innovation and resilience. For instance, our post-quantum secure chips developed by a semiconductor subsidiary SEALSQ are now being embedded into WISeSaT satellites to create a secure foundation for a decentralized IT infrastructure connecting Earth to space in an encrypted way.

這種融合使我們能夠提供端到端的解決方案，其中每個組件相互加強，從而實現指數級的創新和彈性。例如，我們的半導體子公司 SEALSQ 開發的後量子安全晶片現已嵌入 WISeSaT 衛星中，為以加密方式連接地球和太空的分散式 IT 基礎設施創建安全基礎。

Blockchain and identity platforms like SEALCOIN and WISeID are being deployed to power autonomous tamper-proof transaction between machine, satellite, and users. Combining this with our partnership with Hedera distributed ledger brings us transparency and immutability to those transactions.

區塊鏈和身分平台（如 SEALCOIN 和 WISeID）正在部署，以支援機器、衛星和用戶之間的自主防篡改交易。將此與我們與 Hedera 分散式帳本的合作相結合，為這些交易帶來了透明度和不變性。

Additionally, or work with the Swiss Army is proceeding with the testing of a secure smartphone and secure communication with a WISeSat satellite. This convergence approach solutions and positions Wisekey at the intersection of some of the most critical transformation of our time such as quantum resilience security, space-based connectivity, and the decentralized economy.

此外，或正在與瑞士軍隊合作測試安全智慧型手機和與 WISeSat 衛星的安全通訊。這種融合方法解決了 Wisekey 的問題，並使 Wisekey 處於我們這個時代一些最關鍵轉型的交匯點，例如量子彈性安全、基於空間的連接和分散經濟。

We are not just adapting to a future digital era, we are building it, for Wisekey 2025 is expected to be a year of execution and a scale whether or integrated business unit aim to deliver tangible impacts. Along these lines, I'd like to briefly highlight the strategic initiatives we are undertaking at each of our subsidiaries and which we have made progress in 2024 and have set the stage for continued growth in 2025 and beyond.

我們不僅要適應未來的數位時代，還要建立它，因為 Wisekey 2025 預計將是執行的一年，也是規模的一年，無論是綜合業務部門還是旨在產生實際影響的一年。沿著這些思路，我想簡要介紹一下我們每個子公司正在採取的策略性舉措，這些舉措在 2024 年取得了進展，並為 2025 年及以後的持續成長奠定了基礎。

So starting now with SEALSQ subsidiary. Throughout its quasar-platform, SEALSQ developed quantum resistant technology to protect data against future quantum threats, aligning with global standard like [those furnice].

因此，現在就開始與 SEALSQ 子公司合作。在其 Quasar 平台上，SEALSQ 開發了抗量子技術，以保護資料免受未來量子威脅，符合全球標準，例如[那些爐子]。

Those quantum computers are to arrive into the market in the next three to five years as disclosed by many leading organizations, so we need to be ready now. SEALSQ strategy is building around four key priorities.

許多領先組織透露，量子電腦將在未來三到五年內進入市場，所以我們現在需要做好準備。SEALSQ 策略圍繞著四個關鍵重點制定。

First one is the commercial launch of the post-quantum chips. We are targeting the launch of the new post-quantum chip, two of them for IoT PC tablets and mobile phones and various industrial applications including medical, military, and automobile sectors and expansion of cheap fabrication partnerships to increase output for the enterprise and government security solution.

一是後量子晶片的商業化落地。我們的目標是推出新的後量子晶片，其中兩款用於物聯網 PC 平板電腦和手機以及醫療、軍事和汽車領域等各種工業應用，並擴大廉價製造合作夥伴關係，以增加企業和政府安全解決方案的產量。

In that regard, SEALSQ has set an ambitious five-year target to capture 20% of the trusted platform model market, what we call TPM, a goal supported by strong market engagement.

在這方面，SEALSQ 設定了一個雄心勃勃的五年目標，即佔領可信任平台模型市場（我們稱之為 TPM）的 20%，這一目標得到了強大市場參與的支持。

By the end of 2024, SEALSQ have secured over 60 qualified leads and one design in for its CPM products, which are slated for commercial launch in 2025. We are also developing quantum resistant ASIC, which are basically quantum design security chips for specific large client needs, in particularly, in the automobile industry.

到 2024 年底，SEALSQ 已為其 CPM 產品獲得了 60 多個合格線索和一項設計，這些產品計劃於 2025 年投入商業化推出。我們也正在開發抗量子 ASIC，它基本上是針對特定大客戶需求（特別是汽車產業）的量子設計安全晶片。

Second, we are executing targeted acquisition, investments, and joint ventures. This includes the completion of the negotiations to acquire 100% of IC'ALPS, which is a French company located in Grenoble before 2025 year end.

第二，我們正在進行有針對性的收購、投資和合資。其中包括在 2025 年底前完成收購位於格勒諾布爾的法國公司 IC'ALPS 100% 股份的談判。

Investing money in a startup, engage in quantum computing and AI initiative as part of the project we call the SEALSQ Quantum Initiative. And the establishment of an absorbed semiconductor personalized and test center OSPTC in Spain for which we are in the final state negotiation with Spanish authority plus the development of similar OSPTCs in India, the United States, and the Middle East, and Africa.

向一家新創公司投資，參與量子運算和人工智慧計劃，作為我們稱為 SEALSQ 量子計劃的專案的一部分。並在西班牙建立專門的半導體客製化和測試中心OSPTC，目前我們正與西班牙當局進行最後的國家談判，同時在印度、美國、中東和非洲建立類似的OSPTC。

Third, we are making R&D and investing in a strategic investment in post-quantum security. Following the investment we made, we are in the final stage of developing qualification, certification, and also industrialization process for quantum resistant TPM 2.0 chip.

第三，我們正在對後量子安全進行研發和戰略投入。隨著我們的投資，我們正處於抗量子 TPM 2.0 晶片的資格認證和工業化過程的最後開發階段。

The commercial launch, as I mentioned before, is set by Q4 2025. We are in discussions with over 60 interesting potential customers, including major electronic manufacturers requiring to install this level of security in their products. We are also scaling the first CPM PQC chip in broader ASIC offer for addressing the medical defense and IoT market settlements.

正如我之前提到的，商業發佈時間定於 2025 年第四季。我們正在與 60 多位有趣的潛在客戶進行討論，其中包括需要在其產品中安裝這種等級安全措施的主要電子製造商。我們也在更廣泛的 ASIC 產品中擴展第一個 CPM PQC 晶片，以解決醫療防禦和物聯網市場結算問題。

Fourth, we are expanding through services by scaling managed PTI solution for master certification for IOT devices, and home devices, and enterprise security, expanding SSL/TLS and GSMA certificates, offering and pushing adoption for our [InS] platform, which is a PTI post-quantum cryptography platform which includes the latest features.

第四，我們正在透過擴展託管 PTI 解決方案來擴展服務，以用於物聯網設備、家庭設備和企業安全的主認證，擴展 SSL/TLS 和 GSMA 證書，提供和推動我們的 [InS] 平台的採用，這是一個包含最新功能的 PTI 後量子密碼平台。

So now moving to the WISeSat subsidiary or WISeSaT.Space is deploying low Earth orbit ecosystems to provide secure IoT connectivity for remote applications aiming to enhance global coverage for IoT ecosystem, address growing market demand for secure satellite-based communication solutions, supporting critical infrastructures and underserved regions of the world.

因此，現在轉向 WISeSat 子公司或 WISeSaT.Space 正在部署低地球軌道生態系統，為遠端應用提供安全的物聯網連接，旨在增強物聯網生態系統的全球覆蓋範圍，滿足市場對安全衛星通訊解決方案日益增長的需求，支援關鍵基礎設施和服務不足的世界地區。

Recent developments that we had include the strategic partnership with the Swiss Army throughout the initiation of new projects. An agreement with RUAG, the strategic integrator for the Swiss Army forces for a national army project focusing on device-to-device communication, which includes the space component.

我們最近的發展包括在新項目啟動期間與瑞士軍隊建立戰略合作夥伴關係。與瑞士陸軍戰略整合商 RUAG 達成協議，開展一項國家陸軍項目，重點關注設備到設備的通信，其中包括空間組件。

Launch of 70 mini satellites in the last three years with the SpaceX into orbit through a strategic investment and partnership with the startup in Spain with the name FOSSA System, which is manufacturing those satellites after integrating our technology and post-quantum semiconductors.

透過與西班牙新創公司 FOSSA System 的策略性投資和合作，SpaceX 在過去三年將 70 顆微型衛星送入軌道，該公司在整合我們的技術和後量子半導體後製造這些衛星。

Over the next 36 months, WISeSaT.Space plans to deploy up to 88 new generation satellites following the successful January 2020 launch we did with the SpaceX from California. In conjunction with Hedera network, we will pioneer the change of SEALCOIN front space, allowing for first time to put blockchain on the space.

繼 2020 年 1 月我們與 SpaceX 公司在加州成功發射衛星後，WISeSaT.Space 計劃在未來 36 個月內部署多達 88 顆新一代衛星。與Hedera網路合作，我們將率先改變SEALCOIN前端空間，首次將區塊鏈置於該空間。

This was successible tested in Q1 2025, marking the first ever demonstration of secure digital cryptographic and cryptocurrency transactions from the space conducted from orbit and established a proof of concept redefining boundaries on blockchain integration. A new area of space-based digital economies has started with this project.

這項測試於 2025 年第一季成功完成，標誌著首次在軌道上進行安全的數位加密和加密貨幣交易演示，並建立了重新定義區塊鏈整合邊界的概念證明。該計畫開啟了太空數位經濟的新領域。

So let's discuss cooperation between SEALCOIN and WISeART. In 2024, SEALCOIN Wisekey transactional IoT platform made significant progress towards developing and deploying decentralized digital identity solutions, leveraging blockchain to enable secure web 3.0 transactions using our WISeID platform to incorporate distributed identity capabilities and development timelines set for key milestone in 2025.

那我們就來探討一下SEALCOIN和WISeART之間的合作吧。2024 年，SEALCOIN Wisekey 交易物聯網平台在開發和部署去中心化數位身分解決方案方面取得了重大進展，利用區塊鏈透過我們的 WISeID 平台實現安全的 Web 3.0 交易，以整合分散式身分功能，並為 2025 年的關鍵里程碑設定了開發時間表。

WISeART platform has been developed to serve galleries, artists, museum curators, and collectors that they want to create digital assets and digital tunings into the platform, which is now in version 2.0 with an imminent release in the month of May of a new generation of the platform; which is backed by the Wisekey RootT of Trust and blockchain compatible certificates of [authenticity].

WISeART 平台的開發旨在為畫廊、藝術家、博物館館長和收藏家提供服務，他們希望在平台上創建數位資產和數位調音，現在該平台為 2.0 版本，新一代平台將於 5 月發布；由 Wisekey RootT Trust 和區塊鏈兼容證書支持[真實性]

So lastly, our WISeID subsidiary in 2024. WISeID flagship digital identity platform introduced biometric authentication, [cell-server] identity, and post-quantum cryptography protocols, making it one of the most well-secure identity systems in operation.

最後，我們的 WISeID 子公司將於 2024 年成立。WISeID 旗艦數位身分平台引入了生物識別認證、[cell-server] 身分和後量子加密協議，使其成為運作中最安全的身份系統之一。

Complementing this during 2024, Wisekey announced the ongoing development and planned launch of the SEALPhone, a ultra-secure smartphone designed with a privacy by Design architecture. Currently in testing mod with several strategic clients, SEALPhone integrate WISeID and SEALCOIN enable security and a post-quantum chip to secure communication, identity protection, and digitalize a storage on a single hardware device and platform.

2024 年，Wisekey 宣布將繼續開發並計劃推出 SEALPhone，這是一款採用隱私設計架構設計的超安全智慧型手機。SEALPhone 目前正在與多個策略客戶進行測試，它整合了 WISeID 和 SEALCOIN，實現了安全性和後量子晶片，以確保通訊安全、身分保護，並在單一硬體設備和平台上實現儲存數位化。

So in regard to Outlook, due to the several projects and technology investment, I previously discussed across of subsidiary with [speck] Wisekey Performance for the full year 2024 and '25 to substantially improve as compared to the 2024.

因此，就展望而言，由於多個項目和技術投資，我之前與 [speck] Wisekey 子公司討論過，2024 年全年和 2025 年的業績將比 2024 年大幅提高。

So our expectations are supported by our year-end solid cash position and excess in excess of $90 million, which was predominantly secured via the over 80 million capital raise during December 24 by SEALSQ. The availability of any additional financials should it be required and a much cleaner balance sheet put us in a very strong position.

因此，我們的預期得到了我們年底穩固的現金狀況和超過 9000 萬美元的盈餘的支持，這主要透過 SEALSQ 在 12 月 24 日籌集的超過 8000 萬美元的資金來獲得。如果需要的話，任何額外的財務數據以及更清晰的資產負債表的可用性使我們處於非常有利的地位。

All these have put us in a position on where high growth areas such as post-quantum security, cybersecurity, next generation semiconductors, satellite infrastructure, and blockchain-based ecosystem can be further financed to reach a revenue generation level.

所有這些都使我們處於這樣的位置：後量子安全、網路安全、下一代半導體、衛星基礎設施和基於區塊鏈的生態系統等高成長領域可以獲得進一步的融資，以達到創收水平。

Additionally, we have robust pipeline of secure and pending business opportunity exceeding 150 million for the period '26 to '28, supported by a growing public sector and defense partnership that they will use in this conversion I mentioned before and in particularly getting ready for what we call quantum security.

此外，在 2026 年至 2028 年期間，我們擁有超過 1.5 億美元的安全和待定商業機會，這得到了不斷增長的公共部門和國防夥伴關係的支持，他們將利用這些機會進行我之前提到的轉換，特別是為我們所謂的量子安全做好準備。

Currently, our current revenue sources including SEALSQ semiconductor revenue, which has been the main revenue contributor in 2024 and also in prior years as we speed it up the semiconductor business. We anticipated that our new quantum resistant chip will be available on the market in Q4 '25 and Wisekey foresees generating substantial returns for the full scale commercial deployment of this quantum resistant chip starting '26.

目前，我們目前的收入來源包括 SEALSQ 半導體收入，隨著我們加快半導體業務的發展，它是 2024 年以及前幾年的主要收入貢獻者。我們預計，我們的新型抗量子晶片將於 25 年第四季上市，Wisekey 預計從 26 年開始全面商業部署這種抗量子晶片將帶來可觀的回報。

The growth is expected to be driven by the integration of cheap revenue from new sources and expansion in cheap personalization services. Additional revenue by WISeSaT and the consolidated revenue for our planning investment.

預計成長將由新來源的廉價收入整合和廉價個人化服務的擴展所推動。WISeSaT 的額外收入和我們規劃投資的綜合收入。

Wisekey has therefore taken several initiatives to develop new revenue stream and strengthen net result. This initiative includes the development of semiconductor personalization center in Spain in that regard.

因此，Wisekey 採取了多項措施來開發新的收入來源並提高淨利潤。該舉措包括在西班牙建立半導體個人化中心。

Wisekey and SEALSQ gently, with a company with the name Odin and T-Protege to Spanish companies with extensive experience in IoT plan to establish in the region of Murcia in Spain, a center of excellence in cybersecurity and microchip with a personalization capability. The project called Quantix Edge is in the final stage of approval process by SETT, which is the Spanish government entity responsible for funding under the PERTE chip budgets.

Wisekey 和 SEALSQ 攜手一家名為 Odin 的公司以及在物聯網領域擁有豐富經驗的西班牙公司 T-Protege，計劃在西班牙穆爾西亞地區建立一個具有個性化能力的網路安全和微晶片卓越中心。該計畫名為 Quantix Edge，目前正處於 SETT 審批流程的最後階段，SETT 是負責 PERTE 晶片預算資金的西班牙政府實體。

Second, the consolidated revenue for the acquisition opportunity, including the potential IC'ALPS acquisition, if completed only now pending on government authorization, will booster SEALSQ application specific integrated secret ASIC development and further strengthen Wisekey portfolio of product. And plus IC'ALPS, in interest into the automobile and pharmaceutical and medical industry, will allow SEALSQ to identify new clients in this industry that will require post-quantum capability.

其次，收購機會的綜合收入（包括潛在的 IC'ALPS 收購，如果現在等待政府授權完成）將推動 SEALSQ 專用整合機密 ASIC 的開發，並進一步加強 Wisekey 的產品組合。此外，IC'ALPS 對汽車和製藥醫療行業感興趣，這將使 SEALSQ 能夠在該行業中尋找需要後量子能力的新客戶。

Third, WISeSaT new generation satellite as we are planning six more launches during '25 and '26, with the next one currently scheduled for June 2025 with SpaceX in California. And fourth, the commercial launch of SEALCOIN TIoT, which means transaction on the Internet of Things.

第三，WISeSaT 新一代衛星，我們計劃在 2025 年和 2026 年期間再發射六次，下一次發射目前計劃於 2025 年 6 月由加州的 SpaceX 發射。第四，SEALCOIN TIoT（物聯網交易）的商業化落實。

Following on the successful proof of concept carried out in Q1 '25, SEALCOIN is working to identify partners to perform other proof of concept and further demonstrate its readiness for industrialization of its TIoT solution.

繼 2025 年第一季成功進行概念驗證之後，SEALCOIN 正在努力尋找合作夥伴進行其他概念驗證，並進一步證明其已準備好實現 TIoT 解決方案的工業化。

Since the offering of quantum as a service in 2025, Wisekey advanced his commitment to quantum computer by investing in ColibriTD, a pioneering quantum technology French company aiming to integrate Colibri Quantum as a service platform into the SEALSQ Quantum roadmap and quantum platform.

自 2025 年提供量子即服務以來，Wisekey 透過投資法國量子技術先驅公司 ColibriTD 進一步推進了對量子電腦的承諾，旨在將 Colibri Quantum 即服務平台整合到 SEALSQ Quantum 路線圖和量子平台中。

These initiatives and steps we took to scale up our global footprint. The a key partnership with the renowned distributors and sales representatives. It is crucial to create market presence, have a strengthened Wisekey market position, and are expected to fuel our growth by leveraging each partner expertise and established networks. So this conclude our prepared remarks. I would like now to give the floor to John for his presentation.

我們採取這些措施和措施是為了擴大我們的全球影響力。與知名分銷商和銷售代表建立重要合作夥伴關係。建立市場影響力、鞏固 Wisekey 市場地位至關重要，我們期望透過利用每個合作夥伴的專業知識和已建立的網絡來推動我們的成長。我們的準備好的演講到此結束。現在我想請約翰發言。

Thank you very much for your attention.

非常感謝您的關注。

Thank you, Carlos. As Carlos mentioned earlier, 2024 results demonstrated Wisekey's resilience during a transitional year. For the full year 2024, we reported revenue of $11.9 million, which was down from $30.1 million in financial year '23.

謝謝你，卡洛斯。正如卡洛斯之前提到的，2024 年的業績證明了 Wisekey 在過渡時期的韌性。2024 年全年，我們的營收為 1,190 萬美元，低於 23 財年的 3,010 萬美元。

And this , as expected, reflected 2024 being a transitional year, with semiconductor customers gradually shifting to our next generation quantum resistant solutions and therefore delaying building their inventor until the release alongside the impact of the excess inventory accumulation by customers in 2023.

正如預期的那樣，這反映出 2024 年是一個過渡年，半導體客戶逐漸轉向我們的下一代抗量子解決方案，因此推遲了他們的發明者的構建，直到發布，同時還受到 2023 年客戶庫存積累過剩的影響。

We ended the year with a cash balance in excess of $90 million and also had a much cleaner balance sheet with significantly reduced convertible debt and warrants, overhanging as well as traditional, significantly less traditional debt.

截至年底，我們的現金餘額超過 9,000 萬美元，資產負債表也更加清晰，可轉換債務和認股權證大幅減少，而傳統債務也顯著減少。

This strong cash position will help us continue investing in growth opportunities, both organic and through mergers and acquisitions. During the year we invested $7 million in research and development for the development of new projects and technologies, including SEALSQ's post-quantum chip, SEALCOIN, and our WISeSaT next-generation satellites.

強勁的現金狀況將幫助我們繼續投資於有機成長和透過併購實現的成長機會。這一年我們投資了 700 萬美元用於新項目和新技術的研發，包括 SEALSQ 的後量子晶片 SEALCOIN 和我們的 WISeSaT 下一代衛星。

On that note, the first engineering samples of our new quantum-resistant secure microcontroller delivered in Q4 in 2024, in line with our semiconductor's research and development plan initiated in 2022. We are on target to make our QVault-TPM, the next generation of microcontrollers built by SEALSQ on our new Secure RISC-V CPU, available to the market in Q4 2025 with the first revenues expected to be generated in 2026.

就此而言，我們新型抗量子安全微控制器的首批工程樣品將於 2024 年第四季交付，這符合我們 2022 年啟動的半導體研發計畫。我們的目標是將 QVault-TPM（由 SEALSQ 在我們的新型安全 RISC-V CPU 上建構的下一代微控制器）於 2025 年第四季推向市場，並預計在 2026 年產生第一筆收入。

Our $115 million pipeline has secured and pending business opportunities over the period from 2026 to 2028, as of April 15, 2025, demonstrates, we believe, the market interest in our new products.

截至 2025 年 4 月 15 日，我們價值 1.15 億美元的產品線已獲得 2026 年至 2028 年期間的待定商業機會，我們相信，這表明了市場對我們新產品的興趣。

Reinforcing Carlos's message, our strong cash position, investments in high growth areas such as post-quantum cybersecurity, next-generation semiconductors, satellite infrastructure, and blockchain-based ecosystems, our robust pipeline has secured and pending business opportunities, which exceeds $115 million period from 2026 to 2028.

為了強化卡洛斯的訊息，我們擁有強大的現金狀況，在後量子網路安全、下一代半導體、衛星基礎設施和基於區塊鏈的生態系統等高成長領域進行了投資，我們強大的管道已經獲得併有待商機，從 2026 年到 2028 年，其價值將超過 1.15 億美元。

Potential merger and acquisitions and the growing public sector and defense partnerships have put us in a very strong position to grow our revenues and improve our bottom line in 2025 and beyond. We look forward to report our progress in the coming months.

潛在的併購以及不斷增長的公共部門和國防合作夥伴關係使我們處於非常有利的地位，可以在 2025 年及以後增加收入並提高利潤。我們期待在未來幾個月報告我們的進展。

This concludes our prepared marks. I would now like to open the line to Q&A's.

我們的準備分數到此結束。現在我想開始問答環節。

Thank you. (Operator Instructions) Matt Galinko, Maxim Group.

謝謝。（操作員指示）Matt Galinko，Maxim Group。

Hey, thanks for taking my questions; just a couple for me. First, can you talk about -- maybe give us a little bit more detail about that pipeline number you offered as of April 15th, how do you qualify the pipeline, how competitive do you think that will be contested? Just any more color you can provide around it.

嘿，謝謝你回答我的問題；對我來說只有幾個。首先，您能否談談——也許請向我們詳細介紹一下您截至 4 月 15 日提供的管道號碼，您如何限定該管道的資格，您認為該管道的競爭力如何？您可以在它周圍添加任何其他顏色。

Hi, Matt. Yeah, sure. So the pipeline -- we obviously value everything based upon our estimated sort of size of the of the client opportunity, which is a constantly evolving number. When we first start off, we obviously don't necessarily have the full visibility of the of the acquired volume, so it does take an element of estimation in there and we tend to take a very conservative approach.

你好，馬特。是的，當然。因此，對於通路——我們顯然是根據對客戶機會規模的估計來評估一切的，這是一個不斷變化的數字。當我們剛開始時，我們顯然不一定能夠完全了解所獲得的數量，因此它確實需要一些估計，而我們傾向於採取非常保守的方法。

We also then split them between going from the most kind of speculative, where we have identified an opportunity, coming down to them when we've got through the qualifying of an opportunity into the Design-IN and design when of course the Design-IN being the stage where we have received our first purchase order from the client.

然後，我們還將它們分為最具推測性的階段，即我們已經發現了一個機會，當我們通過對機會的資格審查進入設計導入階段時，再進行設計，當然，設計導入階段是我們收到客戶的第一份採購訂單的階段。

As far as how competitive the marketplace is, it does depend a little bit. We believe that that particularly in the TPM market and in the post-quantum market, it's a market with significant barriers to entry then as the design and development of these chips is a very expensive long-term process and we believe there's only a handful of competitors on the market for this work.

至於市場競爭有多激烈，這確實有點取決於情況。我們認為，特別是在 TPM 市場和後量子市場，這是一個進入障礙很高的市場，因為這些晶片的設計和開發是一個非常昂貴的長期過程，我們相信市場上只有少數競爭對手可以從事這項工作。

And on the conversations we're having to date, we believe we are competitive on price. And certainly we believe we are more flexible to specific client needs and more able to adapt our products than some companies who maybe want to -- who would require a higher volume before they would go down a slightly more bespoken route.

根據我們迄今為止的對話，我們相信我們的價格具有競爭力。當然，我們相信，與一些公司相比，我們能夠更靈活地滿足特定客戶的需求，也更有能力調整我們的產品，而這些公司可能希望在走更客製化路線之前，先獲得更高的銷售量。

So yes, as we've always found in the semiconductor industry, there will be competition from some of the usual names, we do feel that the market is big enough to give us a, I think we've quoted elsewhere, we've set ourselves a target of capturing between 10% and 20% of the TPM market over the next three to five years. We believe we're confident in our ability to do that.

所以是的，正如我們在半導體行業中一直發現的那樣，將會有來自一些知名品牌的競爭，我們確實覺得市場足夠大，可以給我們帶來，我想我們已經在其他地方引用過，我們為自己設定了在未來三到五年內佔領 10% 到 20% 的 TPM 市場的目標。我們相信我們有信心做到這一點。

Got it. Thank you. And if I could maybe follow up a little bit on that. I think you mentioned expecting your first revenue from post-quantum capable chips in the first quarter 2026.

知道了。謝謝。我是否可以稍微跟進一下這個問題。我記得您提到預計在 2026 年第一季從後量子晶片中獲得第一筆收入。

So to the extent that -- I guess when will you have visibility into kind of what volumes will look like when the product is ready for volume shipping? In other words, like on that pipeline, do you expect decisions to be made by like midpoint of this year, yes or no, or is it a little more complicated than that?

那麼在某種程度上——我猜當產品準備好批量發貨時，您什麼時候才能了解產量情況？換句話說，就像那條管道一樣，您是否預計在今年年中之前做出決定，是或否，或者情況會比這更複雜一些？

So you're talking about client decisions specifically there, Matt. Yeah, you're asking about sort of when the clients will make their decisions?

所以你正在具體談論客戶的決定，馬特。是的，您問的是客戶什麼時候會做出決定？

Yeah.

是的。

Yes, so certainly, we are already in active discussions. We are with clients where we have a strong relationship with. We've given them kind of first run samples so they're able to test and see how the products fit.

是的，當然，我們已經在積極討論。我們與客戶保持著密切的關係。我們向他們提供了第一批樣品，以便他們可以測試並了解產品是否合適。

The more commercial launch with the sort of the final version will come in Q4, but we're -- on some clients we would expect to start to get that information between now and the end of the year, probably into sort of Q3 and and Q4.

最終版本的商業化發布將在第四季度進行，但對於一些客戶，我們預計從現在到年底會開始獲得這些信息，可能是在第三季和第四季。

There are elements where we're going through getting the certification, so depending on client requirements. Some of them are happy just to know that we've applied for the certification and kind of believe that that indicates that we will get the certification. Others want to wait until we receive that, which means then we're at the whims of the certifying authorities such as NIST and then the FIPS certifications.

我們正在通過一些要素來獲得認證，因此取決於客戶的要求。他們中的一些人很高興知道我們已經申請了認證，並相信這表明我們將獲得認證。其他人則希望等到我們收到該證書後再進行認證，這意味著我們只能聽從 NIST 和 FIPS 認證等認證機構的指令。

So we'd expect by the end of the year to have a probably a pretty good sight into the demand for 2026. And I would say probably once we've gone through the half year and announced our half year results, so we're coming towards the end of Q3 when we announced the interim results, we'd expect to also have a good indication on the first half of 2026 as well but yeah.

因此，我們預計到今年年底我們將對 2026 年的需求有相當好的了解。我想說，一旦我們度過了半年並宣布了半年業績，那麼當我們宣布中期業績時，我們將在第三季末到來，我們預計 2026 年上半年也會有一個良好的跡象，但是是的。

But then I suppose, adding to that, there are obviously some clients where the process will take longer. So it's yeah, it's an ever evolving beast.

但我想，除此之外，顯然有些客戶的流程會花費更長的時間。是的，它是一個不斷進化的野獸。

Got it. Thank you. I'll come back in the queue.

知道了。謝謝。我會回到隊列中。

Kevin Dede, H.C. Wainwright.

凱文·德德（H.C.）溫賴特。

Hi Carlos, John. Thank you for having me on the call too. John, since you're on a roll, can we talk a little bit about margins in the second half and inventory levels and what you think that portends for the first half of '25 and the second half of '25?

你好，卡洛斯，約翰。也感謝您邀請我參加這通通話。約翰，既然你現在勢頭強勁，我們可以談談下半年的利潤率和庫存水準嗎？你認為這對 2025 年上半年和下半年意味著什麼？

If you look at at margins, yeah, if you look at margins, they almost doubled right, from the first half to or more than doubled from the first half to the second half and yet inventory was cut in half. So I'm kind of wondering what happens to legacy product price in advance of the quantum capable chip shipping at the end of the year?

如果你看一下利潤率，是的，如果你看一下利潤率，從上半年到下半年，利潤率幾乎翻了一番，或者說翻了一番多，但庫存卻減少了一半。所以我有點好奇，在年底量子晶片出貨之前，傳統產品的價格會發生什麼變化？

So as of today, and certainly, from all indications we've got from our suppliers -- because the legacy products aren't -- whilst that they are reducing in demand and so on. They're not -- there are certain products where they are still required, so we're not seeing suppliers put pressure on to kind of -- to increase the prices to meet to kind of to produce a what's becoming a potentially sort of obsolete product.

因此，截至今天，當然，從我們從供應商那裡得到的所有跡象來看——因為傳統產品沒有——它們的需求正在減少等等。他們不是——某些產品仍然需要他們，所以我們沒有看到供應商施加壓力——提高價格來滿足生產可能過時的產品的需求。

So we don't anticipate any significant adverse impact on our margin certainly over 2025. I think, as a percentage, the margin was hit in 2024 by the fact that we had some -- there were some charges in our cost of sales that related to that related to minimum production quantities and so on.

因此，我們預計到 2025 年我們的利潤率不會受到任何重大不利影響。我認為，從百分比來看，利潤率在 2024 年受到了影響，因為我們的銷售成本中有一些與最低生產數量等相關的費用。

Which, as we started reducing our old stock level to avoid having an obsolescence problem and to reflect the reduced demand in '24, it meant we did have to absorb some kind of one-off, almost fixed cost of sales items that made our margin look worse than it than it truly was on an underlying basis.

當我們開始減少舊庫存水準以避免過時問題並反映 24 年需求的減少時，這意味著我們必須吸收某種一次性的、幾乎固定的銷售成本，這使我們的利潤率看起來比實際情況更差。

We do expect that to come back particularly in the second half of '25 and really pick back up to kind of the 2023 type levels.

我們確實預計這種情況會在 2025 年下半年回升，並真正回升至 2023 年的水平。

Okay, I guess I'm a little lost. So you --

好吧，我想我有點迷失了。所以你--

Sorry, Kevin, just quickly I'm talking percentage margin there just to be clear.

抱歉，凱文，為了清楚起見，我只是快速地談論百分比利潤。

No, yeah, I understand. But listen, as I ran the numbers, I was looking at sort of 21.5 in the first half of '24, bouncing up to 47.5. It just -- I guess I'm having a hard time getting the dots to connect in my little brain.

不，是的，我明白。但聽著，當我計算這些數字時，我發現 24 年上半年的數字是 21.5，然後反彈至 47.5。只是──我想我的大腦很難把這些點連結起來。

You're -- you suspect that you'll be able to maintain pricing for the remaining chips that you have in legacy product through the balance of the year?

您——您是否懷疑您能夠在今年餘下的時間裡維持剩餘舊產品晶片的定價？

Yeah, that's what we're currently expecting that some of the some of the legacy products will still continue beyond '25. So not everyone is end [life-ing] at the same time. So yeah, obviously there is always pressure from clients to squeeze costs as a standard in business. So -- but yeah, we would expect that second half margin to be something closer to the real number.

是的，我們目前預計一些傳統產品在 2025 年以後仍將繼續使用。所以不是每個人都會同時結束生命。所以，顯然，客戶總是會向你施加壓力，要求你壓縮成本，以此作為業務的標準。所以——但是的，我們預計下半年的利潤率會更接近實際數字。

I see. Okay, okay, thanks. That helps. With regard to the Swiss Army contract, I got the impression -- reading through the docs this morning -- that that contract is live now and I guess on the 17 or 18 satellites you have in your in your constellation. And I'm just wondering how you see revenue flowing through the P&L for the balance of the year?

我懂了。好的，好的，謝謝。這有幫助。關於瑞士軍隊的合同，我得到的印像是——今天早上閱讀文件——該合約現已生效，我猜想您的星座中擁有 17 或 18 顆衛星。我只是想知道您如何看待今年餘額中損益表中的收入流？

Yeah, the development contract is live and we are working with the Swiss Army on various tests and so on, particularly around the technologies, for instance. I believe we announced around the SEALPhone and the secure communications, which we're testing that to prove that it works with the satellites.

是的，開發合約已經生效，我們正在與瑞士軍隊合作進行各種測試等等，特別是圍繞技術等方面的測試。我相信我們已經宣布了 SEALPhone 和安全通信，我們正在對其進行測試以證明它可以與衛星配合使用。

Revenue wise, we've therefore got some contracts which will get relatively small revenues at this stage. We're still at the early step of the project. So yeah, so it won't be, in '25, it won't be a game-changing number.

從收入方面來看，我們目前簽訂的一些合約的收入相對較少。我們仍處於該項目的早期階段。是的，所以在 25 年，它不會是一個改變遊戲規則的數字。

Certainly as I'm sitting here today, it's still much more in the research and development phase where we're working on proof of concepts together and demonstrating the need. But there's obviously quite a few hurdles to jump through, particularly when you're dealing with the more public sector.

當然，當我今天坐在這裡時，它仍然處於研究和開發階段，我們正在共同驗證概念並論證需求。但顯然還有不少障礙需要克服，特別是在與公共部門打交道時。

So we're still -- we're probably expecting that more to come through as we go into 2026 and beyond.

所以我們仍然——我們可能預計到 2026 年及以後還會有更多進展。

Carlos mentioned the fleet size or constellation size approaching 88 satellites. And I'm wondering if you're -- at least as I understood -- previously, the idea was that Wisekey and WISeSaT would work with partners to fortify that network and help subsidize the manufacturer and launch and I'm wondering if you can give us any insight on to how you see those partnerships developing?

卡洛斯提到，衛星群規模或星座規模接近 88 顆衛星。我想知道您是否——至少據我了解——之前的想法是 Wisekey 和 WISeSaT 將與合作夥伴一起加強該網絡並幫助補貼製造商和發布會，我想知道您是否可以向我們介紹一下您如何看待這些合作關係的發展？

And I guess to that point, whether or not the Swiss Army is helping subsidize launch, manufacture and launch as well.

我想，就這一點而言，瑞士軍隊是否也在幫忙補貼發射、製造和發射。

Yeah, unfortunately I can't go into too much detail on what exactly is within the -- in the Swiss Army contract. And certainly, as we head towards the target of -- I think the actual target, I say we're looking to deploy a further 88, as Carlos said, over the next kind of three years.

是的，不幸的是，我無法詳細說明瑞士軍隊合約的具體內容。當然，當我們朝著目標前進時 - 我認為是實際目標，正如卡洛斯所說，我們希望在未來三年內再部署 88 個。

I mean I think the goal is to get -- depends on where we're going, but I think there's sort of a goal to get somewhere around 100 in the constellation in total, which kind of then gets roughly to a live connectivity. So the FOSSA partnership is probably the best example of how we feel that works well, where there are satellites that we will launch together and that that will be very much a WISeSaT-funded launch, whether that's subsidized by our partners or whether that is paid for by us.

我的意思是，我認為目標是——取決於我們要去哪裡，但我認為我們的目標是讓整個星座的數量達到 100 個左右，這樣就可以大致實現即時連接。因此，FOSSA 合作夥伴關係可能是我們認為運作良好的最佳例子，我們將共同發射衛星，並且這將主要由 WISeSaT 資助發射，無論是由我們的合作夥伴補貼還是由我們支付費用。

And ultimately obviously the goal would be we'd be looking to get those fully subsidized to the extent possible. But then also FOSSA themselves will potentially launch their satellites with other partners, and so we have an agreement there where we look to share the technology and therefore we have the kind of the access and the connectivity to their satellite constellation within our numbers.

顯然，我們的最終目標是盡可能為這些企業提供全額補貼。但 FOSSA 本身也有可能與其他合作夥伴一起發射衛星，因此我們達成了一項協議，希望共享技術，這樣我們就可以在我們的範圍內存取和連接他們的衛星星座。

So when we talk about the 17 satellites that have been launched, not some of those have been FOSSA launches, which are then secured by our technology secured by WISeSaT and we have the ability to connect to those.

因此，當我們談論已發射的 17 顆衛星時，其中一些不是由 FOSSA 發射的，這些衛星由我們的 WISeSaT 技術保護，我們有能力連接到這些衛星。

So it's a bit of a mix. And yeah, we're looking to -- we've got two or three advanced conversations, I believe. We've already announce, I believe, we announced one a month or so ago with a partner to look to develop a similar kind of understanding and agreement.

所以這有點混亂。是的，我們正在期待——我相信我們已經進行了兩到三次高級對話。我相信，我們已經在大約一個月前與合作夥伴宣布了這項消息，希望達成類似的諒解和協議。

A couple of questions on the IC'ALPS acquisition, please, John. One, is if -- what sort of revenue contribution do you expect, when do you think it'll close, and what technology comes with that deal that fills a hole that you guys perceived existed in the SEALSQ quantum chip delivery?

約翰，請問幾個有關 IC'ALPS 收購的問題。第一，您預期會有什麼樣的收入貢獻，您認為什麼時候會完成，以及這筆交易會帶來什麼技術來填補你們認為 SEALSQ 量子晶片交付中存在的空白？

Okay. So we will announce more clear guidance on the revenue numbers when we close the deal. The target is we've -- we're progressing through that. We, as Carlos said, the item outstanding is -- in order to acquire a company in this sector in France, in particularly in the semiconductor sector -- you need a government approval.

好的。因此，我們將在完成交易時公佈更明確的收入數字指引。我們的目標是——我們正在實現這一目標。正如卡洛斯所說，我們目前尚未解決的問題是──為了收購法國該領域的公司，特別是半導體領域的公司，你需要獲得政府的批准。

This is -- even though obviously, Wisekey already owns one French company and has gone for an acquisition before. We still need to get the approval again because of the nature of the technology and to ensure that we're not -- that that we're going to continue to support that industry in France. So that's the main item.

儘管很明顯，Wisekey 已經擁有一家法國公司，並且之前也進行過收購。由於該技術的性質，我們仍然需要再次獲得批准，並確保我們不會——我們將繼續支持法國的該行業。這就是主要內容。

In short, the guidance is it can take anywhere between two and four months. And we started the application process about a month ago. So optimistically, we hope to get something before the half year, but it might fall into sort of July, maybe even August, before we get that approval. It just depends on how fastly the wheels turn in the government there.

簡而言之，指導意見是這可能需要兩到四個月的時間。我們大約一個月前就開始了申請流程。因此，樂觀地說，我們希望在半年之前得到一些進展，但可能要到 7 月，甚至 8 月，我們才能獲得批准。這只取決於地方政府的運作速度。

The main area -- and I'm happy to sort of set up a call with Bernard, who can probably explain this a lot more in depth than I can -- but the main area, obviously, the IC'ALPS are -- they work in the full ASIC design and designing the hardware of the chips and so on.

主要領域——我很高興與伯納德進行通話，他可能比我更深入地解釋這一點——但主要領域顯然是 IC'ALPS——他們從事完整的 ASIC 設計並設計晶片的硬體等等。

So for instance, how we first developed our relationship with them was we worked with them on the design of our post-quantum chip where they supported us, particularly in the hardware side, I believe. And so yeah, we feel it then creates a much more sort of full-scale solution that we can offer.

例如，我們最初與他們建立關係的方式是，我們與他們合作設計後量子晶片，我相信他們為我們提供了支持，特別是在硬體方面。是的，我們覺得它可以創造出一種我們可以提供的更全面的解決方案。

So we're not just offering kind of to support to supply secure semiconductors, but we can also support clients with the full design as well, going from -- right from the A to Z of a project there. And we've already had one or two projects come across our desk where previously we would have needed to find someone to subcontract a portion of the project to -- which then immediately, it makes it a bit harder to come across as a credible partner now.

因此，我們不僅提供供應安全半導體的支持，還可以為客戶提供從專案 A 到 Z 的完整設計支援。我們已經接到了一兩個項目，而以前我們需要找人將部分項目分包給他們——而現在，我們很難找到一個可靠的合作夥伴。

We have that entire technology in-house. And we also hope that with IC'ALPS on their side, where they're currently presenting design projects to their clients, not only will they do the design, but now they will have -- as they've tried, as they have done on a couple of occasions -- but they now have a much stronger support to offer both not just the design, but the supply and sale of the chips behind it.

我們內部擁有全部技術。我們也希望，有了 IC'ALPS 的支持，他們現在向客戶展示設計項目時，不僅可以進行設計，而且現在還可以 — — 正如他們曾經嘗試過、在幾次場合中所做的那樣 — — 但他們現在擁有更強大的支持，不僅提供設計，還提供其背後芯片的供應和銷售。

So I again, I just kind of wanted distill it down from my little brain, John. It seems to me it's more of a vertical integration. It gives you a little more flexibility in ASIC design. Is that fair?

所以我再次，我只是想從我的小腦袋裡提煉出它，約翰。在我看來，這更像是一種垂直整合。它為您的 ASIC 設計提供了更多的靈活性。這樣公平嗎？

Yeah, I think that's fair, yeah.

是的，我認為這很公平，是的。

Yeah, okay. Yeah, I know, I'm not, I don't -- I apologize for holding your feet to the fire on that and appreciate the offer to speak to Bernard about it.

嗯，好的。是的，我知道，我沒有，我沒有——我很抱歉讓你為此承擔責任，並感謝你提出與伯納德談談此事。

Yeah, so he would be much better placed to exact details, but yeah, I believe that's a fair summary that you've made.

是的，這樣他就能更了解細節，但是是的，我相信你所做的總結是公正的。

Okay. Well, I -- listen, I don't know that I can handle going any deeper, but I really appreciate your take on it. The other thing that's interesting to me is the the development of a transactional-based service, right on layer on top of the technology that you're building with post-quantum and identification, and why is that?

好的。好吧，我——聽著，我不知道我是否能再深入一點，但我真的很感謝你對此的看法。另一個讓我感興趣的事是開發基於交易的服務，就在你用後量子和識別技術構建的技術之上，這是為什麼呢？

And I'm wondering, maybe you can offer a couple of instances an example. Because it's just hard for me, given none of this is tangible, it's hard for me to imagine how that service would actually work and what problem you're solving.

我想知道，也許您可以舉幾個例子。因為這對我來說很難，因為這些都不是實實在在的，我很難想像這項服務實際上是如何運作的，以及你正在解決什麼問題。

So when you raise that question, just to double check, you're talking about the SEALCOIN?

所以當您提出這個問題時，只需再確認一下，您是在談論 SEALCOIN 嗎？

Exactly, yeah. Exactly, yes, sorry, I left out the most important word. I apologize. Thank you for covering the gap for me.

確實如此。確實，是的，抱歉，我漏掉了最重要的一個字。我很抱歉。謝謝你幫我彌補了差距。

No problem. I just wanted to double check before I went off down the wrong route on the answer. So I mean there's, from our point of view, again, there's multiple potential sort of proof of concepts that we can work on.

沒問題。我只是想在得出錯誤的答案之前再檢查一下。所以我的意思是，從我們的角度來看，我們可以研究多種潛在的概念證明。

There's kind of interchange of data and information and so on. However, the most simple one that I will give because I'll confess I don't have the best brain for when we go into this sector, but it's down the route of if let's say I have an electric car, and you have a solar panel.

存在數據和資訊等的交換。然而，我將給出最簡單的一個，因為我承認當我們進入這個領域時，我沒有最好的頭腦，但它是沿著這樣的路線發展的：假設我有一輛電動車，而你有一塊太陽能電池板。

And then kind of the sort of the smart city concept, I would be able to charge my electric car against your solar panels, against the electricity you're producing, and it would automate the exchange of the tokens to make sure that you therefore receive the consideration for your -- for the electricity you've generated and provided me with.

然後有點像智慧城市的概念，我可以用你們的太陽能板、用你們生產的電力來給我的電動車充電，並且它會自動進行代幣的交換，以確保你們因此而獲得對你們生產的和提供給我的電力的回報。

So that's kind of a very simple basis. But that kind of -- when you sort of scale that up into the smart city concept and the fact that you potentially have this sort of the entire city infrastructure to operate on a similar basis, that's kind of where it becomes quite significant and quite powerful.

這是一個非常簡單的基礎。但是當你將其擴展到智慧城市概念，並且有可能讓整個城市基礎設施以類似的方式運作時，它就會變得非常重要和強大。

And do you think I'm wrong in assuming that given satellites are a global phenomenon that you'd be able to tie electric cars and they're charging to sort of an international -- I suppose I have to fill up my Tesla in the US and then I have it shipped to Switzerland. I can charge it there. Is that kind of some of the thinking?

您是否認為我的假設是錯誤的，因為衛星是一種全球現象，你可以將電動車與國際充電聯繫起來——我想我必須在美國為我的特斯拉加滿油，然後把它運送到瑞士。我可以在那裡充電。有這樣的想法嗎？

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it would be, yeah, cross border; it would not have to be sort of limited to single geographies.

是的，確實如此。是的，是的，跨國的；它不必局限於單一的地理區域。

Perfect. Well, thank you so much, John, for entertaining everything. Congrats on keeping the fire burning.

完美的。好吧，非常感謝你，約翰，為大家帶來娛樂。恭喜你讓火繼續燃燒。

Thank you very much, Kevin. And similar on the offer with with Bernard, if you do want to have a further conversation around the technology behind SEALCOIN, I can put you in touch with Jonathan, who leads that division, so just let me know.

非常感謝，凱文。與 Bernard 的提議類似，如果您確實想進一步討論 SEALCOIN 背後的技術，我可以幫您聯繫領導該部門的 Jonathan，所以請告訴我。

Will do. Thank you so much. Thanks, Kevin.

會做。太感謝了。謝謝，凱文。

Thank you. (Operator Instructions) Leo Carpio, Joseph Gunnar.

謝謝。（操作員指示）Leo Carpio，Joseph Gunnar。

Hi. Good morning, gentlemen. I guess after that very detailed question and answer, I thought more a general 50,000 feet question, probably inappropriate. Given all the technologies you have in your platform and capabilities, are you positioned to benefit from the general European rearmament trend that we're seeing and that the whole spending of NATO for the next two to five years in terms of re-enhancing their capabilities, especially on secure communications and encryption? Thank you.

你好。先生們，早安。我想，在這個非常詳細的問答之後，我認為這個問題更像一個籠統的 50,000 英尺問題，可能不太合適。考慮到你們平台所擁有的所有技術和能力，你們是否能夠從我們所看到的歐洲重新武裝的總體趨勢中受益，以及北約在未來兩到五年內為重新增強其能力（特別是在安全通信和加密方面）所投入的全部資金？謝謝。

Hi Leo. No, thanks for the question. Yeah, for a short answer, yes, we believe we are. And certainly, that is an avenue that we are trying to explore and progress down, yeah.

你好，Leo。不，謝謝你的提問。是的，簡而言之，是的，我們相信我們是。當然，這是我們正在努力探索和推進的一條途徑。

Okay. And then a quick follow up in terms of your satellite customers, who are they right now currently and what you would envision in in the next two years for?

好的。然後快速跟進一下您的衛星客戶，他們現在是誰，您對未來兩年的設想是什麼？

Thanks. So currently, obviously, we've announced that we've got -- that we have the project ongoing with the Swiss Army, and we also have a -- I believe we've announced our partnership with RUAG as well. So those are our main partners at the moment where, like I say, we're still very much in the sort of the development in the development phase and the proof of concept phase on those.

謝謝。因此，目前，顯然我們已經宣布我們已經與瑞士軍隊正在進行該項目，而且我們還有——我相信我們也宣布了與 RUAG 的合作夥伴關係。所以這些是我們目前的主要合作夥伴，正如我所說，我們仍然處於開發階段和概念驗證階段。

From a growth point of view, where -- we obviously believe those contracts will grow further than we've had conversations, I think, as our as our financial state we've had conversations and working with various companies from sort of shipping companies for the tracking and the monitoring of goods.

從成長的角度來看，我們顯然相信這些合約的成長速度將比我們之前討論的還要快，我認為，就我們的財務狀況而言，我們已經與各種航運公司進行了對話並合作，以追蹤和監控貨物。

We're working with sort of agricultural companies for the environmental data on there. Communication and telecommunication companies, we believe, would come there and then. Back to the point you mentioned earlier on a kind of a defense scale, we believe there's a strong argument for for having this kind of this neutral network that's kind of Swiss owned, Swiss led, and so we also believe there could be sort of government and defense interest, particularly across in the EU at the moment on that.

我們正在與一些農業公司合作，以獲取那裡的環境數據。我們相信，通訊和電信公司將會到來。回到您之前提到的關於國防規模的問題，我們認為建立這種由瑞士擁有、瑞士主導的中立網絡有著強有力的理由，因此我們也相信政府和國防部門可能會對此感興趣，特別是目前整個歐盟。

Right. Well, thank you for answering my questions.

正確的。好吧，謝謝你回答我的問題。

No problem. Thank you.

沒問題。謝謝。

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes our question and answer session. I'll turn the floor back to management for any final comments.

謝謝。女士們、先生們，我們的問答環節到此結束。我將把發言權交還給管理階層，以徵求他們的最終意見。

Okay. Thank you, operator. So yeah, I would just like to conclude by thanking [wadi] for joining us today on this call. Please do not hesitate to reach out to our investor relations team if you'd like any further information. And otherwise, I'll just wish you all a very good day. Thank you.

好的。謝謝您，接線生。所以，是的，最後我只想感謝 [wadi] 今天參加我們的電話會議。如果您想了解更多信息，請隨時聯繫我們的投資者關係團隊。除此之外，我只想祝大家有個愉快的一天。謝謝。

Thank you. This concludes today's conference call. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.

謝謝。今天的電話會議到此結束。現在您可以斷開線路。感謝您的參與。