Wallbox NV (WBX) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Hello, everyone, and welcome to Wallbox's fourth quarter and full year 2024 earnings conference call and webcast. My name is Charlie, and I'll be your operator for today's call. (Operator Instructions)

大家好，歡迎參加 Wallbox 2024 年第四季和全年財報電話會議和網路廣播。我叫查理，今天我將擔任您的電話接線生。（操作員指令）

Now, let's send the call over to Michael Wilhelm from Wallbox to begin. Michael, please go ahead.

現在，讓我們將電話轉給 Wallbox 的 Michael Wilhelm 來開始。邁克爾，請繼續。

Thank you, Charlie, and good morning and good afternoon to everyone listening in. Thank you for joining today's webcast to discuss Wallbox's fourth quarter and full year 2024 results. This event is being broadcast over the web and can be accessed from the investors section of our website at investors.wallbox.com. I am joined today by Enric Asunción, Wallbox's CEO, and Luis Boada, Wallbox's CFO. Earlier today, we issued a press release announcing results from the fourth quarter and year ended December 31, 2024, which can also be found on our website.

謝謝你，查理，各位聽眾早安，下午好。感謝您參加今天的網路直播，討論 Wallbox 第四季和 2024 年全年業績。活動正在網路直播，您可以從我們網站的投資者部分（地址：investors.wallbox.com）訪問。今天與我一起參加活動的還有 Wallbox 的執行長 Enric Asunción 和 Wallbox 的財務長 Luis Boada。今天早些時候，我們發布了一份新聞稿，宣布了截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的第四季度和年度業績，該新聞稿也可在我們的網站上找到。

Before we begin, I would like to remind everyone that certain statements made on today's call are forward-looking that may be subjected to risks and uncertainties related to future events and or the future financial performance of the company. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated. The risk factors that may affect results are detailed in the company's most recent public filings with the SEC, including the annual report on Form 20-F for the fiscal year ended December 31, 2023, filed on March 21, 2024.

在我們開始之前，我想提醒大家，今天電話會議上發表的某些聲明是前瞻性的，可能會受到與未來事件或公司未來財務表現相關的風險和不確定性的影響。實際結果可能與預期結果有重大差異。可能影響結果的風險因素詳細說明在公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的最新公開文件中，包括於 2024 年 3 月 21 日提交的截至 2023 年 12 月 31 日的財政年度的 20-F 表年度報告。

We will be presenting on audited financial statements in IFRS format that reflect management's best assessment of actual results. Also, please note that we use certain non-IRS financial measures on this call, and reconciliations of these measures are included in the presentation posted on the investor section of our website. Also, a copy of these prepared remarks can be obtained from the investor relations website on the quarterly results section so you can more easily follow along with us today.

我們將以 IFRS 格式呈現經審計的財務報表，以反映管理階層對實際結果的最佳評估。另請注意，我們在本次電話會議上使用了某些非 IRS 財務指標，這些指標的對帳包含在我們網站投資者部分發布的簡報中。此外，您可以從投資者關係網站的季度業績部分獲取這些準備好的評論的副本，以便您今天更輕鬆地跟踪我們。

So with that out of the way, I will turn it over to Enric.

因此，在解決了這個問題之後，我將把發言權交給 Enric。

Thank you, Michael, and thanks, everyone, for joining us today. I would like to start today’s call reflecting on 2024 which included exciting achievements and solid progress on the challenges we are facing. To start, 2024 has been a challenging year due to the slow down in the EV market, which also impacted our results. If we look at the EV market in the main regions we operate in, Europe, North America and rest of world, which are all countries excluding China, the EV market only grew 6% year over year. This market growth continues to be subdued compared to the initial market expectations.

謝謝你，邁克爾，也謝謝大家今天的參與。我想在今天的電話會議上回顧 2024 年，這一年我們取得了令人興奮的成就，並在所面臨的挑戰中取得了堅實的進展。首先，由於電動車市場的放緩，2024 年是充滿挑戰的一年，這也影響了我們的表現。如果我們看看我們主要經營地區的電動車市場，即歐洲、北美和世界其他地區（中國除外）的電動車市場，電動車市場年比僅成長了 6%。與最初的市場預期相比，這一市場成長持續低迷。

However, at Wallbox, we believe that we are managing this down cycle in the EV transition as one of the best in the industry. Revenue for the full year totaled EUR163.9 million, reflecting a 14% growth compared to last year. The main growth drivers were the full year contribution of ABL and solid growth in the North American market, up more than 40% year over year.

然而，在 Wallbox，我們相信我們正在以業界最佳的方式管理電動車轉型中的這一下行週期。全年營收達1.639億歐元，較去年同期成長14%。主要成長動力是 ABL 的全年貢獻和北美市場的穩健成長，年成長超過 40%。

We delivered more than 162,000 AC units, and close to 1000 DC units during the year, allowing us to surpass one million chargers sold in the history of Wallbox. We have achieved these results with a more efficient organizational set-up as we continue to drive down labor and operating expenditures, down 11% compared to last year.

我們全年交付了超過 162,000 台交流電設備和近 1000 台直流電設備，這使得 Wallbox 歷史上的充電器銷量突破 100 萬台。我們透過更有效率的組織設置取得了這些成果，同時繼續降低勞動力和營運支出，與去年相比下降了 11%。

As a result of this growth and cost optimization, we improved the adjusted EBITDA by 21% year over year, from negative EUR74.2 million to negative EUR58.8 million. We remain confident that last year’s strategic initiatives will continue to improve our adjusted EBITDA with the positive impact of these efforts becoming more visible in the upcoming quarters.

由於這項成長和成本優化，我們的調整後 EBITDA 年成長了 21%，從負 7,420 萬歐元增至負 5,880 萬歐元。我們堅信，去年的策略舉措將繼續改善我們的調整後 EBITDA，而這些努力的正面影響將在未來幾季變得更加明顯。

The new business unit structure, introduced last quarter, is allowing us to more efficiently service each target segment, home & business, fast charging and software, supported by manufacturing. In parallel, our product portfolio continues to evolve with new versions of our chargers and software solutions as we believe we remain a technology leader in the space and find opportunities to improve our margins.

上個季度推出的新業務部門結構使我們能夠更有效地服務於每個目標細分市場，包括家庭和企業、快速充電和軟體，並由製造業提供支援。同時，我們的產品組合也在不斷發展，推出新版本的充電器和軟體解決方案，因為我們相信我們仍然是該領域的技術領導者，並找到了提高利潤率的機會。

Examples include achieving the UL certification for our bi-directional charger, the Quasar 2, as the first one in the industry, and the launch of new Supernova and Pulsar versions, such as the Supernova UL, Supernova 220, the fastest Wallbox DC charger to date, and the Pulsar Pro Socket, which is showing strong traction in the commercial segment.

例如，我們的雙向充電器 Quasar 2 獲得了 UL 認證，這是業內首款獲得該認證的充電器，我們還推出了新的 Supernova 和 Pulsar 版本，例如 Supernova UL、Supernova 220（迄今為止最快的 Wallbox DC 充電器）和 Pulsar Pro Socket，後者在商業領域表現出強勁的吸引力。

We have strengthened our commercial relationships with parties such as Engie, Generac, Free2Move, Florida Power Light, Eranovum and Iberdrola, and in 2024, raised an additional $45 million from strategic investors, excluding the $10 million private placement that took place in February 2025 and announced earlier this week.

我們加強了與 Engie、Generac、Free2Move、Florida Power Light、Eranovum 和 Iberdrola 等方的商業關係，並於 2024 年從戰略投資者那裡額外籌集了 4500 萬美元，不包括 2025 年 2 月進行並於本週早些時候宣布的 1000 萬美元私募。

While these are notable achievements considering the challenging market backdrop, we are not satisfied. It is important that we continue to focus on our strategic plan, continue to rightsize the organization and further secure the fundamentals to be successful in the long-term. We believe we have an unparalleled platform for further growth with a complete product portfolio and global footprint, coupled with strong commercial partnerships and the invaluable trust of our strategic investors.

儘管在充滿挑戰的市場背景下取得了這些顯著成就，但我們並不滿足。重要的是，我們要繼續專注於我們的策略計劃，繼續調整組織規模，進一步鞏固長期成功的基礎。我們相信，我們擁有無與倫比的平台，可以透過完整的產品組合和全球影響力、強大的商業合作夥伴關係以及策略投資者的寶貴信任來實現進一步的成長。

In our opinion, the transition to EVs is going to take place, it is only a matter of when, not if. Based on different indicators such as declining battery prices, introduction of affordable EV models, and continued investments, we believe we are close to the inflection point and we are well positioned to benefit from the massive growth that lies ahead.

我們認為，向電動車的轉變必將發生，這只是時間問題，而不是是否會發生的問題。根據電池價格下降、平價電動車車型的推出以及持續的投資等不同指標，我們相信我們已接近拐點，並且已準備好從未來的巨大增長中受益。

Now, we will go into the highlights of the fourth quarter and share our perspective on the market. Afterwards, Luis will offer a closer look at our financial results and our key financial metrics. And finally, I will return to close the conversation and provide Q1 2025 guidance.

現在，我們將回顧第四季度的亮點並分享我們對市場的看法。之後，路易斯將詳細介紹我們的財務表現和關鍵財務指標。最後，我將回來結束對話並提供 2025 年第一季的指導。

Q4 revenue was EUR37.4 million, down 14% year over year, and missing the guidance range we provided in our last earnings call, but did improve with 8% compared to last quarter. The main reason was slower DC fast charger's sales, which was down 34% quarter over quarter, as certain customers pushed out expected orders.

第四季營收為 3,740 萬歐元，年減 14%，未達到我們在上次財報電話會議上提供的指導範圍，但與上一季相比確實提高了 8%。主要原因是直流快速充電器銷售放緩，由於某些客戶推遲了預期訂單，因此季減 34%。

As commented on our previous earnings call, our CPO customers have been building up inventory as their focus has shifted from highly accelerated roll-out towards profitability. This trend was more significant than expected and is impacting the whole industry. We are working closely with our CPO partners to understand their roll-out plans, including product requirements, to improve our visibility and pipeline.

正如我們之前的收益電話會議中所評論的那樣，我們的 CPO 客戶一直在增加庫存，因為他們的重點已經從高度加速的推出轉向盈利能力。這一趨勢比預期更為顯著，並且正在影響整個行業。我們正在與我們的 CPO 合作夥伴密切合作，以了解他們的推出計劃，包括產品要求，以提高我們的知名度和管道。

In parallel, we have continued to sign-up new commercial partners with the most recent example, Believ. This CPO, operating in the United Kingdom, is expected to roll-out different versions of our Supernova product to further expand their charging network.

同時，我們也繼續簽約新的商業夥伴，最近的例子就是貝利耶夫。這家在英國營運的 CPO 預計將推出我們 Supernova 產品的不同版本，以進一步擴展其充電網路。

Growth in AC of 14% quarter over quarter, partly offset the slowdown in DC fast chargers, but not sufficiently to cover the gap to our guidance range. As previously mentioned, North America kept seeing significant growth as well as an uptick in other markets such as Belgium, France and the UK. In total, during the fourth quarter, we delivered more than 38,000 AC units and more than 100 DC units.

交流電環比成長 14%，部分抵消了直流快速充電器的成長放緩，但不足以彌補我們指導範圍的差距。如前所述，北美持續保持顯著成長，比利時、法國和英國等其他市場也呈現上升趨勢。總體而言，第四季度我們交付了超過 38,000 台空調機組和超過 100 台直流機組。

Gross margin was 34.6% in the fourth quarter, which is lower than our target range of 38% to 40% and guidance provided last quarter. The main items impacting the result were product mix, due to the lower topline contribution of DC fast chargers and ABL. We are actively looking to unlock several gross margin expansion opportunities to reach and potentially exceed the 38% to 40% prior target range, which Luis will discuss shortly.

第四季的毛利率為34.6%，低於我們上季給出的38%至40%的目標範圍和指引。影響結果的主要因素是產品組合，因為直流快速充電器和 ABL 的營收貢獻較低。我們正在積極尋找釋放幾個毛利率擴張機會，以達到並可能超過 38% 至 40% 的預定目標範圍，Luis 將很快對此進行討論。

On the cost side, one of the levers where we have greater control, we have made significant progress and continue to do so. When we look at our cash costs, which is defined as labor costs and OpEx excluding R&D activation, non-cash items and one-off expenses, we achieved a year-over-year reduction of 19%. We expect further improvements in the coming quarters as we continue to find ways to optimize the organization with the further implementation of the new business unit structure.

成本方面是我們能夠更好地控制的槓桿之一，我們已經取得了重大進展，並將繼續這樣做。當我們查看我們的現金成本（其定義為勞動力成本和不包括研發啟動、非現金項目和一次性費用的營運支出）時，我們實現了同比 19% 的下降。隨著我們繼續實施新的業務部門結構並繼續尋找優化組織的方法，我們預計未來幾季將會進一步改善。

For the fourth quarter adjusted EBITDA was closer to the improvement trend we had seen earlier this year at negative EUR12.3 million and improved with 43% compared to last quarter. The main drivers were the bounce back in gross margin and a 10% quarter-over-quarter reduction in labor and OpeX costs. The cost improvement positions the company for the future but was not sufficient to cover the gap to the adjusted EBITDA guidance of EUR7 million to EUR10 million.

第四季調整後的 EBITDA 更接近我們今年稍早看到的改善趨勢，為負 1,230 萬歐元，與上一季相比改善了 43%。主要驅動因素是毛利率的回升以及勞動力和營運成本較上季下降 10%。成本改善為公司的未來做好了準備，但不足以彌補調整後 EBITDA 指引 700 萬歐元至 1,000 萬歐元的差距。

We monitor closely our sell-out metrics and can see that the inventory in the channel is healthy and that our sell-out performance generally outpaces or is in line with EV sales in our key markets. We therefore stand in a privileged position to capitalize on our anticipated massive growth of EV sales. Nevertheless, as the volatility in the market continues and topline visibility remains challenged, we continue to push for right sizing the organizational structure and becoming profitable at current topline levels.

我們密切監控我們的銷售指標，發現通路中的庫存是健康的，我們的銷售業績通常超過或與我們主要市場的電動車銷售持平。因此，我們處於有利地位，可以利用預期的電動車銷量大幅成長。然而，由於市場波動持續，營收可見性仍面臨挑戰，我們將繼續推動合理調整組織結構，並在目前營收水準上獲利。

For the fourth quarter 2024, Europe contributed EUR25.7 million of consolidated revenue, or 69% of total revenue, and remains the largest region. Considering the softness in the European market, based on the sell-out data, we have been able to hold our market position, and we believe this will result in an uptick in sell-in in the near future.

2024 年第四季度，歐洲貢獻了 2,570 萬歐元的綜合收入，佔總收入的 69%，仍然是最大的地區。考慮到歐洲市場的疲軟，根據銷售數據，我們能夠保持我們的市場地位，我們相信這將在不久的將來導致銷售量上升。

North America remained the strongest growth market in 2024 for Wallbox and in the fourth quarter contributed EUR10.5 million or 28% of the total revenue. This represents a 64% year-over-year growth compared to the fourth quarter of 2023, while the EV market in the region grew 12%. In the past, we mentioned the importance of the North America market and we are excited to see the progress we are making with our strategic partners such as Generac and Free2Move.

2024 年，北美仍是 Wallbox 成長最強勁的市場，第四季貢獻了 1,050 萬歐元，佔總營收的 28%。與 2023 年第四季相比，這一數字年增 64%，而該地區的電動車市場成長了 12%。過去，我們曾提到北美市場的重要性，我們很高興看到我們與 Generac 和 Free2Move 等策略合作夥伴所取得的進展。

It was great to see one of our Pulsar being featured in the recent Superbowl ad of Jeep. For 2025, we see an opportunity to continue to grow in this region despite a change in the EV sentiment, which I will comment on shortly. APAC contributed EUR900k or 2%, and LATAM was approximately EUR400k or 1%.

很高興看到我們的一款 Pulsar 出現在最近的吉普超級碗廣告中。展望 2025 年，儘管電動車市場情緒發生了變化，但我們仍看到該地區仍有機會繼續成長，我很快就會對此發表評論。亞太地區貢獻了 90 萬歐元，即 2%，拉丁美洲地區貢獻了約 40 萬歐元，即 1%。

AC sales of EUR26.9 million, including ABL, represented approximately 72% of our global consolidated revenue. Compared to the previous quarter, the AC sales grew 14%, mainly due to continued momentum in North America and increase in demand in Europe for the Pulsar Family. Especially with the introduction of the new Pulsar versions such as the Pulsar Pro and the Pulsar Max in the residential segment, there has been good traction. We see improvements in the upgraded versions of our products which are designed to be easier to install and offer new features.

包括 ABL 在內的 AC 銷售額為 2,690 萬歐元，約占我們全球合併收入的 72%。與上一季相比，空調銷量成長了 14%，這主要得益於北美市場持續的成長動能以及歐洲對 Pulsar 系列的需求增加。尤其是隨著 Pulsar Pro 和 Pulsar Max 等新 Pulsar 版本在住宅領域的推出，獲得了良好的發展勢頭。我們看到了產品升級版本的改進，其設計更易於安裝並提供新功能。

Also, our software remains a key differentiator, enabling customers to efficiently manage their chargers. The Wallbox App enhances our home EV chargers, providing features like real-time monitoring, scheduling, and remote operation via Wi-Fi or Bluetooth. Our app is recognized as one of the best in the space which gives us a clear competitive advantage. With Virtual Power Plant integration, our chargers can contribute to grid stability and enable users to participate in energy markets — further reinforcing our leadership in smart charging solutions.

此外，我們的軟體仍然是一個關鍵的區別因素，使客戶能夠有效地管理他們的充電器。Wallbox 應用程式增強了我們的家用電動車充電器，提供即時監控、調度和透過 Wi-Fi 或藍牙進行遠端操作等功能。我們的應用程式被公認為該領域最好的應用程式之一，這為我們帶來了明顯的競爭優勢。透過虛擬發電廠集成，我們的充電器可以促進電網穩定並使用戶能夠參與能源市場——進一步鞏固我們在智慧充電解決方案方面的領導地位。

The attractiveness of our smart charging solutions allows us to continue to support existing partners and signing up new partnerships. Through our partnerships with the likes of Free2Move and Iberdrola, we continue to sell thousands of chargers to companies such as Jeep, Alfa Romeo, Mercedes, Volvo, Maserati and Hyundai.

我們的智慧充電解決方案的吸引力使我們能夠繼續支持現有合作夥伴並簽署新的合作夥伴關係。透過與 Free2Move 和 Iberdrola 等公司的合作，我們繼續向吉普、阿爾法羅密歐、梅賽德斯、沃爾沃、瑪莎拉蒂和現代等公司銷售數千個充電器。

DC sales were EUR2.9 million, representing 8% of sales in the fourth quarter, and much lighter than expected. As mentioned before, there is inventory build-up with our CPO customers and orders have been pushed to 2025, as they slow down the roll-out of their networks as the EV fleet is not growing as fast as expected.

DC銷售額為290萬歐元，佔第四季銷售額的8%，遠低於預期。如前所述，我們的 CPO 客戶的庫存不斷增加，訂單已推遲到 2025 年，因為由於電動車隊的成長速度不如預期，他們放慢了網路的部署速度。

In the US, we launched the Supernova at the beginning of 2024, which was a great milestone as we expanded our product offering in this region with fast charging. We have made a very successful launch and are still ramping up our commercial efforts and order book. In Q4, we received the Eichrecht certification to sell our Supernova in Germany and are in the process of receiving the CTEP certification to be compliant with regulations in California. Both of these certifications will expand our addressable market significantly as we continue to sign up customers that look for the product specification, reliability and high-power-to-footprint ratio the Supernova can offer.

在美國，我們在 2024 年初推出了 Supernova，這是一個重要的里程碑，因為我們透過快速充電擴大了我們在該地區的產品供應。我們的產品發布非常成功，並且仍在增加商業力度和訂單量。在第四季度，我們獲得了 Eichrecht 認證，可以在德國銷售我們的 Supernova，並且正在獲取 CTEP 認證以符合加州的法規。隨著我們繼續簽約那些尋求 Supernova 所提供的產品規格、可靠性和高功率佔用空間比的客戶，這兩項認證將大大擴展我們的潛在市場。

Software, services and others contributed EUR7.7 million for the fourth quarter, representing 20% of our total revenue and 18% growth compared to last quarter. We're excited by this segment's rapid growth, which is already fueling a scalable competitive edge in our market.

軟體、服務和其他業務在第四季度貢獻了 770 萬歐元，占我們總收入的 20%，比上一季成長了 18%。我們對這一領域的快速成長感到非常興奮，這已經為我們市場帶來了可擴展的競爭優勢。

As mentioned at the start of the call, 2024 has been a challenging year for EV sales. The EV market growth was volatile and clearly below expectations. Especially Europe has been soft, which was down 2% compared to the full year 2023. North America and rest of world showed more promising growth, with respectively 10% and 28% year-over-year growth rates, however these markets are smaller, especially for Wallbox, and are still catching up. As reported by Rho Motion, in our addressable markets combined 6.1 million EVs have been sold representing a 6% year-over-year growth.

正如電話會議開始時所提到的，2024 年對於電動車銷售來說是充滿挑戰的一年。電動車市場成長不穩定，明顯低於預期。尤其是歐洲表現疲軟，與 2023 年全年相比下降了 2%。北美和世界其他地區表現出更為可觀的成長勢頭，同比增長率分別為 10% 和 28%，但這些市場規模較小，尤其是對於 Wallbox 而言，並且仍在追趕。根據 Rho Motion 報導，在我們目標市場中，電動車總銷量已達 610 萬輛，較去年同期成長 6%。

Looking forward, while the near-term market visibility remains low, long-term prospects point to massive growth. For 2025, leading research firms such as Rho Motion, expect the EV market to continue to grow with high-double digits including North America and Europe with 23% and 21% respectively. In Europe, stricter emission regulations come into effect, and we see already strong initial sales numbers picking up in the last quarter of 2024 and in the first month of the new year. In North America, there is a change in sentiment now that the new administration has taken office. This has impacted certain subsidies, such as NEVI, and will impact fuel economy standards, limiting the legislative pressure to increase EV sales.

展望未來，雖然短期市場能見度仍然較低，但長期前景顯示將大幅成長。Rho Motion 等領先研究公司預計，到 2025 年，電動車市場將繼續保持高兩位數成長，其中北美和歐洲的成長率分別為 23% 和 21%。在歐洲，更嚴格的排放法規開始生效，我們看到 2024 年最後一個季度和新年第一個月的初始銷售數字已經強勁回升。在北美，隨著新政府上台，人們的情緒也改變了。這影響了某些補貼，例如 NEVI，並將影響燃油經濟性標準，限制增加電動車銷售的立法壓力。

Other subsidy schemes such as the IRA, which includes the EV tax credit, are currently being reviewed. Meanwhile automakers keep betting on EVs long term and are lobbying to keep certain EV incentives in place and push for gradual phase out as more affordable EV models become available. Also, several states continue with their own regulations and incentive programs. In the end, we believe the new administration is not opposed to EVs, but that the industry must be commercially viable without government support.

其他補貼計劃，例如包括電動車稅收抵免在內的 IRA，目前正在審查中。同時，汽車製造商繼續長期押注電動車，並遊說保留某些電動車激勵措施，並隨著更多經濟實惠的電動車車型的上市推動逐步淘汰這些激勵措施。此外，一些州繼續實施自己的法規和激勵計劃。最後，我們相信新政府並不反對電動車，但該產業必須在沒有政府支持的情況下實現商業可行性。

There are many proof points that we are getting close to this inflection point with decreasing battery prices, more affordable car models and continuous investment. Leaving any emissions and environmental concerns aside, I am a strong believer that EVs will eventually dominate the auto landscape. They are more efficient, better performers, cheaper to maintain, becoming cheaper to buy, and safer.

有許多證據表明，隨著電池價格的下降、車型越來越便宜以及持續的投資，我們正在接近這個轉折點。拋開排放和環境問題，我堅信電動車最終將主導汽車領域。它們效率更高、性能更佳、維護更便宜、購買更便宜、更安全。

If we look at what this means for Wallbox, we recognize the proof points and are optimistic about the market. Nevertheless, we are very intentional about reaching profitability and cash generation independent of market growth. That's why we've realigned the organization around the key levers we can control, gross margin, OpEx, and working capital, to drive sustainable growth and ensure our long-term success.

如果我們看看這對 Wallbox 意味著什麼，我們就會意識到證明點並對市場感到樂觀。儘管如此，我們非常有意實現不依賴市場成長的獲利和現金創造。這就是為什麼我們圍繞著我們能夠控制的關鍵槓桿、毛利率、營運支出和營運資本來重新調整組織，以推動永續成長並確保我們的長期成功。

Luis, I’ll turn it over to you to comment further on our financial details

路易斯，我將把話題轉交給你，以便進一步評論我們的財務細節

Thank you, Enric. Good morning and good afternoon to everyone. Our fourth quarter results are softer than expected and missing the guidance provided in our last earnings call.

謝謝你，恩里克。大家早安，下午好。我們的第四季業績低於預期，且未達到上次財報電話會議上提供的指引。

The revenue was EUR37.4 million, down 14% year over year, but showed an improvement compared to the previous quarter. AC sales showed a strong recovery with 14% growth quarter over quarter. The North American market continues to grow fast, and the European business is recovering. However, DC sales were much lower than expected mainly due to inventory build-up with customers and purchase orders being dragged to 2025.

營收為3740萬歐元，年減14%，但與上一季相比有所改善。空調銷售強勁復甦，季增 14%。北美市場持續快速成長，歐洲業務正在復甦。然而，DC 銷售額遠低於預期，主要原因是客戶庫存累積和採購訂單被拖延至 2025 年。

With 34.6%, the gross margin is lower than expected and outside the target range we communicated before. The main reason is weaker sales of DC fast charging and ABL impacting the product mix as these are higher than the groups target margins. Looking forward, we continue to see opportunities to expand gross margin through improved Bill-Of-Materials costs, increased economies of scale and the introduction of newer versions of our products, with higher quality and expanded features.

毛利率為34.6%，低於預期，也超出了我們先前傳達的目標範圍。主要原因是直流快速充電和 ABL 銷售疲軟影響了產品組合，因為它們高於集團的目標利潤率。展望未來，我們將繼續看到透過改善物料清單成本、擴大規模經濟和推出具有更高品質和擴展功能的新版本產品來擴大毛利率的機會。

Q4 labor costs and OpEx landed at EUR28.8 million, which was flat compared to the same quarter last year but does not clearly reflect the cost reduction achievements in the past year due to ABL entering the perimeter on November 1, 2023, and the inclusion of one-off items. On a full year basis, labor costs and OpEx decreased 11%.

第四季勞動成本和營運支出為 2,880 萬歐元，與去年同期持平，但由於 ABL 於 2023 年 11 月 1 日進入範圍，並納入了一次性項目，因此並未清楚反映過去一年的成本削減成果。從全年來看，勞動成本和營運成本下降了 11%。

If we look at our cash costs instead, which is defined as labor costs and OpEx excluding R&D capitalization, non-cash items and one-off expenses, we achieved a year-over-year reduction of 19% in Q4. Cost control remains one of our highest priorities on our path to profitability. Among others, the activities we are undertaking are right sizing the organization, removing unnecessary spend and renegotiating necessary spend. As part of the efficiency efforts we have reduced headcount by 35% compared to the same period last year.

如果我們看看我們的現金成本，其定義為勞動力成本和不包括研發資本化、非現金項目和一次性費用的營運支出，我們在第四季度實現了同比 19% 的下降。成本控制仍然是我們實現盈利的首要任務之一。除此之外，我們正在進行的活動包括合理調整組織規模、消除不必要的開支以及重新協商必要的開支。作為提高效率的努力的一部分，我們與去年同期相比裁減了 35% 的員工人數。

Consolidated adjusted EBITDA loss for the quarter was EUR12.3 million. Softer topline and lower than expected gross margin have been the main reasons why we did not land in our guided range. And yet, these results show a leaner organization that provides an improved adjusted EBITDA margin on lower level of revenues. This will show incremental improvement on profitability in the upcoming quarters as the topline increases.

本季綜合調整後 EBITDA 虧損為 1,230 萬歐元。營收疲軟和毛利率低於預期是我們未能達到指導範圍的主要原因。然而，這些結果顯示，更精簡的組織可以在較低的收入水準上提供更好的調整後 EBITDA 利潤率。隨著營業額的增加，這將表明未來幾季的獲利能力將逐步改善。

We ended the quarter with approximately EUR46 million of cash, cash equivalents, and financial instruments. This is excluding the approximately $10 million private placement announced earlier this week from our trusted strategic shareholders.

截至本季末，我們的現金、現金等價物和金融工具約為 4,600 萬歐元。這還不包括本週稍早我們值得信賴的策略股東宣布的約 1000 萬美元的私募。

Loans and borrowings were approximately EUR198 million at the end of the quarter with approximately EUR91 million in long-term debt and approximately EUR107 million in short-term debt. In order to strengthen our balance sheet, we successfully negotiated with our main lenders, Santander and BBVA, for an interest-only period of 18 months starting in November 2024. We are now actively expanding that interest-only period to our other pool of loans to minimize loan repayments in 2025. 2024 Loan repayments amounted to almost EUR20 million.

本季末，貸款和借款約 1.98 億歐元，其中長期債務約 9,100 萬歐元，短期債務約 1.07 億歐元。為了加強我們的資產負債表，我們成功地與我們的主要貸方桑坦德銀行和西班牙對外銀行達成協議，從 2024 年 11 月開始為期 18 個月的僅付利息期。我們目前正在積極將只付利息期擴展到我們的其他貸款池，以盡量減少 2025 年的貸款償還。2024年貸款償還金額接近2,000萬歐元。

CapEx was, again, light, but slightly higher than last quarter at EUR3.9 million. EUR1.5 million was invested on Property Plant and Equipment. Full year PP&E and intangibles CapEx excluding R&D capitalization was EUR9.9 million, below EUR10 million as expected. This represents a 39% decrease in CapEx spent compared to the full year 2023. Echoing earlier comments, we continue to expect limited CapEx because of significant investments made in the past to achieve our existing unique product and global positioning with excess manufacturing capacity, ripe for future growth.

資本支出再次較少，但略高於上一季的 390 萬歐元。 1.5歐元已投資數百萬美元用於物業、廠房和設備。全年不包括研發資本化的 PP&E 和無形資產資本支出為 990 萬歐元，低於預期的 1,000 萬歐元。與 2023 年全年相比，這意味著資本支出減少了 39%。與先前的評論相呼應，我們仍然預計資本支出有限，因為我們過去進行了大量投資，以實現我們現有的獨特產品和全球定位，並擁有過剩的製造能力，為未來成長做好了準備。

One of the other items we continue to book success with is the reduction of our inventory, which now lands at a total of EUR71.1 million. That is a 23% reduction compared to the same period last year. We expect this optimization to continue as our business-unit-led organization manages the excess inventory down, which should in turn result in operating cash and improved margins.

我們持續成功的另一個因素是庫存減少，目前庫存總額為 7,110 萬歐元。與去年同期相比減少了 23%。我們預計，隨著我們以業務部門為主導的組織管理過剩庫存，這種優化將繼續下去，這反過來將帶來營運現金和利潤率的提高。

Enric, I’ll turn it back to you to provide some closing commentary.

恩里克，我將把話題轉回給你，提供一些結束語。

Thank you, Luis.

謝謝你，路易斯。

I would like to end with what I started, which is to recognize 2024 was a challenging year for the EV industry. However, challenging times are part of every industry, and what is most important is managing these down cycles. Especially, in a young industry that has experienced significant volatility, being agile is crucial and Wallbox has taken the opportunity to become a leaner and more efficient company that maintains a unique fit and strong propositions for the massive growth that lies ahead.

最後，我想重複我開始說過的話，那就是 2024 年對電動車產業來說是一個充滿挑戰的一年。然而，每個產業都會面臨挑戰，最重要的是管理好這些低迷週期。尤其是在一個經歷了巨大波動的年輕行業中，敏捷至關重要，而 Wallbox 已抓住機會成為一家更精簡、更有效率的公司，為未來的巨大成長保持獨特的契合度和強有力的主張。

2025 will be another year of growth for the industry, but we recognize that volatility in EV sales could persist as a transition of this magnitude takes time. However, at Wallbox we are excited about what 2025 will bring. We have made great progress in the past year and are starting to reap the benefits of these efforts, with incremental improvements expected for the upcoming quarters. The goal of Wallbox is to generate profitable growth and we are getting closer and closer to this objective.

2025 年將是該行業的另一個成長年，但我們認識到，電動車銷售的波動可能會持續，因為這種規模的轉型需要時間。然而，Wallbox 我們對 2025 年將會帶來的改變感到興奮。我們在過去的一年裡取得了巨大的進步，並開始收穫這些努力的成果，預計未來幾季將繼續取得逐步的進步。Wallbox 的目標是實現獲利成長，我們越來越接近這個目標。

We believe that the platform we developed to generate shareholder value has all the elements in place including a diversified product portfolio, large geographical presence, key strategic partners, capacity in-place and a great team. We have high ambitions in building out our leading position in the transition to sustainable mobility and we appreciate the continuous trust of our shareholders.

我們相信，我們為創造股東價值而開發的平台已經具備所有要素，包括多樣化的產品組合、廣泛的地理覆蓋、關鍵的策略夥伴、現有產能和優秀的團隊。我們雄心勃勃，致力於在永續交通轉型過程中確立領先地位，並感謝股東們的持續信任。

We also aim to provide the market and our shareholders better insights in what lies ahead. Therefore, we want to provide guidance on what we expect for the first quarter, revenue in the EUR34 million to EUR37 million range, gross margin between 37% and 39%, expecting a negative adjusted EBITDA between EUR8 million and EUR11 million

我們也致力於為市場和股東提供更好的未來洞察。因此，我們希望對第一季的預期提供指導，營收在 3,400 萬歐元至 3,700 萬歐元之間，毛利率在 37% 至 39% 之間，預計調整後的 EBITDA 為負 800 萬歐元至 1,100 萬歐元之間

With that, we’re ready to take questions from our analysts.

現在，我們已經準備好回答分析師的問題了。

Welcome back, everyone. To our analysts, we ask that you pose one question with a follow up if needed, then re-enter the queue if there's more. This will allow each of you to ask your questions upfront, and we get to as many additional questions as time allows. Charlie, could you please share instructions to our analysts and take the first question?

歡迎大家回來。對於我們的分析師，我們要求您提出一個問題並在必要時進行跟進，然後如果還有更多問題則重新進入隊列。這樣，每個人都可以提前提出自己的問題，只要時間允許，我們就可以回答盡可能多的其他問題。查理，您能否向我們的分析師分享指示並回答第一個問題？

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Stephen Gengaro, Stifel.

史蒂芬·根加羅（Stephen Gengaro），Stifel。

So, I think two things. I think the first just at a high level, when we think about your mix going forward and I know you mentioned in the commentary some of the sort of regulatory changes or at least potential changes in the US market, how should we think about the mix of products? Do you think it evolves much because of maybe the lack of some of the funding? How do we think about how your mix might evolve, particularly in the US market?

因此，我認為有兩件事。我認為首先只是從高層次考慮，當我們考慮未來的產品組合時，我知道您在評論中提到了一些監管變化，或者至少是美國市場的潛在變化，我們應該如何考慮產品組合？您是否認為它的進展是因為缺少一些資金？我們如何看待您的產品組合將如何發展，特別是在美國市場？

In the US, we are seeing that the mix should be improving towards fast charging. We have been launching the Supernova UL at the middle of last year and we have also included the certifications of the NEP and CTEP which will be announced and launched soon. So at the end this increase our addressable market for fast charging in the US, which it's a vector of growth for fast charging for us.

在美國，我們看到充電組合正在快速充電方向上改善。我們在去年年中就推出了Supernova UL，同時也包含了NEP和CTEP的認證，這些認證將會很快公佈並推出。因此最終這會增加我們在美國快速充電的目標市場，這是我們快速充電成長的方向。

Also, the fact that we launched the product in the middle of last year, in Q2 last year, most of the deals and most of the accounts that we have take time to mature, and on average we are seeing that a deal for fast charging takes around 200 days to start seeing this or big, interesting revenues. At the beginning, the CPO makes a small order, there's the product and then after that, after 200 days, you start seeing volume of orders. So these two together should make that the mix increases and our goal in the US as we look at is eventually to be 50% fast, 50% home and business.

此外，事實上，我們在去年年中，也就是去年第二季度推出了該產品，大多數交易和帳戶都需要一些時間來成熟，平均而言，我們發現一筆快速充電交易大約需要 200 天才能開始看到這一結果或巨大的、有趣的收入。一開始，CPO 會下小訂單，然後有產品，然後，200 天后，你開始看到訂單量。因此，這兩者結合起來應該會使混合度增加，我們在美國的目標最終是實現 50％ 快速、50％ 家庭和企業。

We are seeing also positive notes in terms of growth for home charging in North America this quarter, sellout is growing nicely and as well as selling, so it doesn't look like it's very impacted by new policies or new sentiments, or maybe this is accelerating the orders of some electric cars because people are worried that some incentives might disappear. So in the short term, we are seeing a growth for home charging but also expect a growth for fast given the fact that we launch new products in a very small market and the opportunities are maturing.

本季我們也看到北美家庭充電樁成長方面的正面跡象，出貨量和銷量都在良好成長，因此看起來它並沒有受到新政策或新情緒的太大影響，或者也許這加速了一些電動車的訂單，因為人們擔心一些激勵措施可能會消失。因此，在短期內，我們看到家庭充電業務的成長，但考慮到我們在一個非常小的市場推出新產品並且機會正在成熟，我們也預計成長會快速。

And then the other question, I know this is a hard one to pinpoint with all the moving pieces, but when we think about kind of where you might be in 12 months or 18 months and just sort of the, I'm thinking about the path to being kind of EBITDA, and then ultimately free cash flow positive like where do you think you are kind of in that evolution and maybe what do you think the backdrop or even the top line would need to look like to get you there?

然後是另一個問題，我知道這是一個很難確定的問題，因為所有的因素都在發生變化，但是當我們考慮您在 12 個月或 18 個月後可能處於什麼位置時，我在考慮實現 EBITDA 的途徑，然後最終實現自由現金流為正，您認為您在這種演變過程中處於什麼位置，也許您認為需要什麼樣的背景或營收目標才能實現這一目標？

So, basically, what we've done so far the last year, even was a challenging year for the market, is being able to exit in most markets or maintain our sales compared to the EV market, the EV vehicle sales. So, we've been maintaining our market share or increasing it in in many countries. For example, a clear example of that is North America. The EV market grew around 20% and we've grown 40% in this market, so that means increasing market share, having new customers, and we can see this with all these new brands, we are launching.

因此，基本上，儘管去年對市場來說是充滿挑戰的一年，但我們所做的就是能夠退出大多數市場，或者與電動車市場、電動車銷售相比保持我們的銷量。因此，我們在許多國家一直保持或增加我們的市場份額。例如，北美就是一個明顯的例子。電動車市場成長了約 20%，而我們在這個市場上成長了 40%，這意味著市場份額的增加，擁有新客戶，我們可以從我們推出的所有這些新品牌中看到這一點。

So when we look at our performance, that's what we are committing for the following 12 months, being able to keep our market share and we see less competition, we see new partnerships coming and at the end, it will depend a lot on how the EV market performs.

因此，當我們回顧我們的業績時，就會發現這就是我們對未來 12 個月的承諾，即能夠保持我們的市場份額，我們看到更少的競爭，我們看到新的合作夥伴關係的出現，而最終，這在很大程度上取決於電動車市場的表現。

We are seeing positive things. For example, Europe, if the emissions continue, the emission regulations continue, and it looks like it's going to be like that, there's a 20% growth potential. And in North America, industry sources say 20%. So we're going to be very dependent on EV sales and that's going to -- that's what's going to impact our performance.

我們看到了正面的事情。例如，在歐洲，如果排放持續存在、排放法規持續存在，而且看起來情況會是這樣，那麼就有 20% 的成長潛力。而在北美，業內人士稱這一比例為 20%。因此，我們將非常依賴電動車的銷售，這將會影響我們的業績。

When you look at the revenues, what revenue makes us profitable or a bit break even. We have to be given all the efforts we are doing. We changed from a functional organization to a business unit organization, and we've been doing strong effort reducing OpEx. And you can see this, but we are not still seeing the full impact of all these improvements, and we will start seeing it now in this quarter.

當你查看收入時，哪些收入可以讓我們獲利或收支平衡。我們所做的一切努力都必須得到回報。我們從職能型組織轉變為業務部門組織，並且一直在努力降低營運支出。您可以看到這一點，但我們還沒有看到所有這些改進的全部影響，我們將在本季開始看到它。

With revenues of around EUR40 million to EUR45 million, the company should be able to be a break even, once we reach the size we are targeting. And this target size, we are targeting to be at least in at the end of Q2, that we should be in the target size which it will be fully reflected in Q3. So, these are the numbers. So there's upside potential with EB sales. If there's more EB sales, we will sell more because we are able to capture this market.

一旦達到目標規模，公司的營收就應該能夠收支平衡，約 4,000 萬至 4,500 萬歐元。我們的目標是至少在第二季末達到這個目標規模，並且應該在第三季完全反映出這個目標規模。這些就是數字。因此 EB 銷售還有上升潛力。如果 EB 銷售量增加，我們的銷售量也會增加，因為我們能夠佔領這個市場。

I think there's opportunities to capture it even more because the platform we have, the products, we have the global footprint and at the end, we are not very dependent on a specific regions. If Europe now grows and US maybe doesn't grow as fast, we are able to capture this growth. And we're disrupting the cost to the -- to be able to add these revenue levels be profitable and generate to be deposit.

我認為我們有更多機會抓住這一機遇，因為我們擁有平台、產品和全球影響力，而且我們並不太依賴特定地區。如果歐洲現在成長而美國成長速度可能沒有那麼快，我們就能抓住這個成長機會。我們正在降低成本——以便能夠增加這些收入水平、實現盈利並產生存款。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

William Grippin, UBS.

瑞銀的威廉‧格里平 (William Grippin)。

My first question, just wanted to touch on tariffs here. You folks appear pretty well positioned just given your manufacturing footprint, but could you talk about maybe some possible areas of of import tariff exposure and sort of how you're positioning the company as the import tariff environment in the US is evolving here.

我的第一個問題只是想談談關稅問題。考慮到你們的生產足跡，你們似乎已經佔據了相當有利的位置，但你能否談談進口關稅可能面臨的一些領域，以及隨著美國進口關稅環境的變化，你們如何定位公司。

So as you're saying, I think there's two hedges or two protections we have as a company. One is, obviously, a big part of our revenue comes from Europe, and we manufacture in Europe. So here, we are less exposed to the North American market, but obviously, we're growing a lot in the North American market. No, we've seen a 40% growth. But in the North American market, we have a factory, assembly facility in Arlington where we manufacture the charges, the home charges and commercial charges we sell in all North America and also some parts of South America.

正如您所說，我認為我們作為一家公司有兩種對沖措施或兩種保護措施。一是顯然我們很大一部分的收入來自歐洲，而且我們的生產也在歐洲進行。因此，我們對北美市場的關注較少，但顯然，我們在北美市場正在實現巨大的成長。不，我們看到了40%的成長。但在北美市場，我們在阿靈頓設有工廠和組裝廠，我們在那裡生產炸藥、家用炸藥和商用炸藥，並銷往整個北美以及南美的部分地區。

When I think about risk, I don't see a reason in terms of supply chain for this factory because we can manage and most of our supply chain, it's localized. The bigger risk I would say is in the fast-charging space where we still a big part of this fast charging is being manufactured in our Barcelona factory. And a big part of it, we ship it from Barcelona to Arlington. Then we are going on a plan in place in case that there will be a specific tariffs coming from Barcelona to the US, trespass more of this manufacturing or more of the supply chain to North America. So we can do it, we have the space, we have the CapEx invested.

當我考慮風險時，我認為工廠在供應鏈方面沒有理由這樣做，因為我們可以管理，而且我們的大部分供應鏈都是本地化的。我想說的更大的風險是在快速充電領域，我們仍然有很大一部分快速充電設備是在巴塞隆納工廠生產的。其中大部分是從巴塞隆納運往阿靈頓的。然後，我們將製定一個計劃，以防巴塞隆納對美國徵收特定的關稅，導致更多的製造業或更多的供應鏈進入北美。所以我們可以做到，我們有空間，我們有資本支出。

The fact that we are doing most of this right now in Barcelona is from an operational efficiency. There's not enough volume to justify these two separate assembly lines, but our (inaudible) could do it. So if we see that's necessary and at the end, it makes financial sense, we can trespass more parts of this manufacturing in Arlington.

事實上，我們現在在巴塞隆納進行大部分工作是為了提高營運效率。產量不足以證明這兩條獨立的裝配線是合理的，但我們的（聽不清楚）可以做到。因此，如果我們認為這是必要的，並且最終在財務上是合理的，我們可以在阿靈頓涉足更多製造業。

And also, maybe if you think about China and importing goods from there, we've been working with our suppliers that to make sure we source from alternative suppliers or alternative factories they have around the world. So also, it has been an ongoing effort since I would say one year ago at least, and we are well set where almost of all of the materials come have multiple sources.

而且，如果你考慮中國並從那裡進口商品，我們一直在與我們的供應商合作，以確保我們從世界各地的替代供應商或替代工廠採購。因此，至少從一年前開始我們就一直在努力，而且我們已經做好了準備，幾乎所有的材料都有多個來源。

I will pass it to Luis one moment.

我馬上就把它傳給路易斯。

Yeah. I was only going to want to add that going back to Enric's prior point. Fast charge is practically non-material part of the business in the US where we see upside and also linking to other comments that we've been sharing with you, that business unit has a good margin. So when you put all those things together, we see it as an incremental that we need to address, but we can manage accordingly.

是的。我只是想補充一下 Enric 之前的觀點。快速充電實際上是美國業務中非實質的部分，我們看到了上升空間，並且與我們與您分享的其他評論相關，該業務部門的利潤率很高。因此，當你把所有這些事情放在一起時，我們會將其視為需要解決的一個增量問題，但我們可以進行相應的管理。

And my follow up here is just on the EUR10 million capital raise you announced a couple of days ago, could you just elaborate on sort of how much funding runway or visibility that gives you and do you need or see the need potentially for additional capital to reach more of a self-funding level here?

我的後續問題是針對您幾天前宣布的 1000 萬歐元融資，您能否詳細說明這給您帶來了多少資金支持或可見性，以及您是否需要或認為可能需要額外資本來達到更多的自籌資金水平？

Well, first of all, we are very proud that we can access capital markets, and we have the support from our strategic and long-standing shareholders, which many of them are not only investors, they are also key customers like Iberdrola. I know Iberdrola is one of the biggest utilities in the world and also one of our biggest customers worldwide and having them keep supporting the company and investing, I think is a proof point of the products, the technology, and all the things, all the value we create to our customers.

首先，我們非常自豪能夠進入資本市場，我們得到了策略和長期股東的支持，他們中的許多人不僅是投資者，也是像 Iberdrola 這樣的重要客戶。我知道 Iberdrola 是世界上最大的公用事業公司之一，也是我們全球最大的客戶之一，他們一直支持並投資於我們，我認為這是產品、技術以及我們為客戶創造的所有價值的證明。

There's many things we -- with many levers we have in terms of cash, obviously is the carbon cash at hand and the fundraising we've done. And at the end, what we are doing is make the company that operationally can, as soon as possible, be cash flow positive.

我們有很多東西——在現金方面我們有很多槓桿，顯然是手頭上的碳現金和我們已經籌集的資金。最後，我們要做的是讓公司在營運上盡快實現正現金流。

How we are doing that, we have the inventory release, so we still have a lot of inventory, EUR70 million. We've been able last year to reduce it significantly, which at the end, has released a lot of cash available every month and every quarter, so this is an important part of how we are managing cash also working capital. We have been optimizing, and we continue utilizing our working capital and working with customers to have a payment and with suppliers to manage all of this.

我們的做法是，我們有庫存釋放，所以我們仍然有很多庫存，7000 萬歐元。去年我們已經能夠大幅減少這個數字，最終每個月和每個季度都釋放了大量的現金，所以這是我們管理現金和營運資金的重要組成部分。我們一直在優化，並繼續利用我們的營運資金並與客戶合作付款並與供應商合作管理所有這些。

So all in all, what we're trying is to make sure we don't need more capital or at least the minimum capital and minimize dilution. If needed and at the end, that depends a lot on the top line. The correction efforts are being made, we are working on the gross margin. I think we're doing an excellent job on the working capital as well and you can see that when you do that.

總而言之，我們要確保我們不需要更多資本或至少需要最低限度的資本，並盡量減少稀釋。如果需要的話，最終這在很大程度上取決於營收。我們正在進行糾正工作，努力提高毛利率。我認為我們在營運資金方面也做得非常出色，當您這樣做時您就會看到這一點。

And also, we've -- another thing that we haven't seen a big impact last year, what we're seeing now is all these renegotiation with banks where we are not paying the principal. We're paying only interest only now for 18 months, which at the end, it's what makes sense in a company that still is not generating cash and we hope to do that soon. So with all these actions, we are working and we're trying to make sure we don't need that to raise additional cash, and it will be very dependent on the top line. And if needed, I think the company has proven that has access to capital markets, but we're trying to manage it with the current cash.

此外，另一件事是，去年我們沒有看到很大的影響，現在我們看到的是與銀行的重新談判，我們不會支付本金。我們現在只支付 18 個月的利息，這對於一家尚未產生現金的公司來說，最終是合理的，我們希望很快就能做到這一點。因此，透過所有這些行動，我們正在努力確保我們不需要籌集額外的現金，而且這將嚴重依賴營業收入。如果需要的話，我認為公司已經證明可以進入資本市場，但我們正嘗試用現有現金來管理。

Okay, that's our last question, and thank you all for joining us today. We hope you found today's call a good use of your time and let me -- let us know if we can help you in any way.

好的，這是我們的最後一個問題，感謝大家今天的參與。我們希望您發現今天的電話會議充分利用了您的時間，如果我們能為您提供任何幫助，請告知我們。

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's call. Thank you for joining. You may disconnect your lines.

女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的加入。您可以斷開您的線路。