VirTra Inc (VTSI) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, and welcome to VirTra's fourth-quarter and full year 2025 earnings conference call. My name is Diego, and I will be your operator for today's call.

各位下午好，歡迎參加 VirTra 2025 年第四季暨全年財報電話會議。我是 Diego，將擔任今天會議的接線員。

Joining us for today's presentation are the company's CEO, John Givens, and CFO, Alanna Boudreau. Following their remarks, we will open the call for questions.

出席今天簡報的有公司執行長 John Givens 與財務長 Alanna Boudreau。在他們致詞之後，我們將開放提問。

Before we begin the call, I would like to provide VirTra's Safe Harbor statement that includes cautions regarding forward-looking statements made during this call.

在開始之前，我想先宣讀 VirTra 的「安全港」聲明，其中包含對本次電話會議中所作前瞻性陳述的注意事項。

During this presentation, management may discuss financial projections, information or expectations about the company's products and services or markets or otherwise make statements about the future, which are forward-looking and subject to a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from the statements made. The company does not undertake any obligation to update them as required by law.

在本次簡報中，管理層可能會討論財務預測、與公司產品與服務或市場相關的資訊或預期，或以其他方式對未來作出陳述；此類陳述屬前瞻性陳述，並受多項風險與不確定性影響，可能導致實際結果與所述內容出現重大差異。除法律要求外，公司不承擔更新此等陳述之義務。

Finally, I'd like to remind everyone that this call will be made available for replay via a link in the Investor Relations section on the company's website at www.virtra.com.

最後提醒各位，本次電話會議將提供重播，連結可於公司網站 www.virtra.com 的投資人關係（Investor Relations）專區取得。

Now I'd like to turn the call over to VirTra's CEO, Mr. John Givens. Thank you. You may proceed, sir.

現在我想把電話交給 VirTra 執行長 John Givens 先生。謝謝。先生，請開始。

Thank you, Diego, and thank you, everyone, for joining us this afternoon. After the market closed today, we issued a press release that provided our financial results for the fourth quarter and the full year ending December 31, 2025, along with an update of our business and operating environment. 2025 was defined by an extended and highly atypical disruption in federal funding.

謝謝你，Diego，也謝謝各位今天下午的參與。今天收盤後，我們發布新聞稿，公布截至 2025 年 12 月 31 日止之第四季與全年財務結果，並更新我們的業務與營運環境。2025 年的特徵是聯邦資金出現延長且極不尋常的中斷。

These delays affected the timing of awards, procurement activities and ultimately, system deliveries across our core markets. As a result, our reported revenue does not fully reflect the level of underlying demand or activity across the business.

這些延遲影響了獎補助核定、採購活動，並最終影響我們核心市場的系統交付時點。因此，我們所報告的營收未能充分反映公司整體潛在需求或業務活動的實際水準。

What I want to do this afternoon is walk you through what drove the disconnect, what we are seeing change in the funding environment and how we are positioned as these conditions begin to normalize.

我今天下午想做的是，帶各位了解造成這種落差的原因、我們在資金環境中看到哪些變化，以及在這些狀況開始正常化之際，我們如何做好布局。

Let me start with the funding environment because that has been the primary driver for our results. The federal funding freeze that began in 2024 was unlike anything that we've seen, budget approvals that were expected to flow in fiscal year '25 were held and agencies were limited to their ability to move forward with procurement. That dynamic persisted through the fourth quarter.

我先從資金環境談起，因為這一直是影響我們業績的主要因素。自 2024 年開始的聯邦資金凍結前所未見；原本預期在 2025 會計年度到位的預算核准被擱置，各機關在推進採購方面的能力受到限制。這種態勢一路延續到第四季。

What has changed more recently in the last several days is that we are now seeing those programs begin to reopen. Specifically, just in the past week, the Justice Assistance Grant or JAG and the COPS fund have both reopened for applications.

最近幾天出現的變化是，我們現在看到這些計畫開始重新開放。具體而言，就在過去一週，司法援助補助金（Justice Assistance Grant，JAG）與 COPS 基金都已重新開放申請。

Importantly, this includes fiscal year 2025 funding that was approved in the federal budget back in October of 2024 and has been frozen since. It is only now being made available, but that gives you an indication of the extent of the delays we've been operating through.

重要的是，這其中包含 2025 會計年度的資金；該資金早在 2024 年 10 月的聯邦預算中已獲核准，但自那時起一直被凍結。直到現在才開始釋出，這也顯示我們所面對延遲的程度。

Behind that, additional funding cycles are progressing as of fiscal year 2026 and expected fiscal year 2027 allocations are moving through the system at the exact same time. As a result, we are seeing a meaningful increase in customer engagement and applications across our base. We are actively working alongside those customers as they move through the grant application and approval process.

在此之後，其他資金週期也在推進：2026 會計年度以及預期的 2027 會計年度撥款，正於同一時間在系統中流轉。因此，我們看到客戶互動與申請活動在整體客群中明顯增加。我們正積極與客戶並肩合作，協助其完成補助申請與核准流程。

As we've noted before, this remains a multistep process: customers must apply, awards must be determined and purchase orders must be issued and then the systems must be delivered and accepted. We are closely engaged throughout the process to help conversions wherever we can.

如同我們先前所提，這仍是一個多步驟流程：客戶必須提出申請、獎補助必須核定、採購訂單必須開立，接著系統必須交付並驗收。我們在整個流程中都保持密切參與，盡可能協助提高轉換。

Based on what we're seeing today, that process is likely to play out over the coming quarters rather than all at once. So while the environment is clearly improving, the timing of revenue conversions will continue to be driven by those external funding timelines.

依我們目前所見，這個流程更可能在接下來幾個季度逐步展開，而非一次性完成。因此，雖然環境明顯改善，但營收轉換的時點仍將受外部資金時程所驅動。

One point I want to be clear on is that demand has remained strong throughout the period. We closed 2025 with $25.6 million in backlog and generated $26.7 million in bookings during the year. In many cases, orders have been already placed but customers are not yet in a position to take delivery, either due to the funding timing or the readiness on their end with buildings and space.

我想特別澄清的一點是：在整個期間內，需求始終維持強勁。我們在 2025 年底的在手訂單（backlog）為 2,560 萬美元，全年新增訂單（bookings）達 2,670 萬美元。許多情況下，訂單已下達，但客戶尚未準備好收貨，原因可能是資金到位時點，或是其端的建物與空間尚未就緒。

We are also seeing this dynamic internationally, where contracts are in place across markets in EMEA and Latin America, but deliveries are tied to customer side funding or operational readiness to accept. So the core dynamic we've been operating in is not a lack of demand, but the delay in conversion. We are ready for that conversion. We have used this period to align our operations, inventory, production capacity so that we can fulfill orders quickly as they come through.

我們在國際市場也看到同樣的情況：在歐洲、中東與非洲（EMEA）以及拉丁美洲等市場已簽訂合約，但交付仍取決於客戶端資金到位或營運準備度以進行驗收。因此，我們所處的核心態勢並非需求不足，而是轉換延遲。我們已為轉換做好準備。我們利用這段期間調整營運、庫存與產能配置，以便在訂單到位時能快速履約。

Our inventory levels are where we need to be, our production processes are optimized, and our team is positioned to execute. As funding is secured and purchase orders are issued, we expect to be able to move quickly from order to delivery.

我們的庫存水位符合需求，生產流程已最佳化，團隊也已就位以執行交付。隨著資金到位與採購訂單開立，我們預期能夠快速從接單推進到交付。

At the same time, we have made targeted investments in our sales organization in recent quarters. We are adding a second dedicated federal sales resource to increase coverage in that channel, which has a longer and more relationship-driven sales cycle. This allows the rest of our team to stay focused on law enforcement where we already are seeing reengagement as the grant programs open.

同時，我們在近幾季也對銷售組織進行了有針對性的投資。我們將增聘第二位專責的聯邦政府銷售人員，以提升該通路覆蓋；該通路的銷售週期較長，且更仰賴關係經營。這也讓團隊其他成員能持續聚焦於執法機關市場，而我們已在補助計畫重新開放後看到該市場的再度互動。

We have also recently added an experienced Director of Marketing with deep simulation and defense industry routes. Our marketing cadence has increased meaningfully at the start of 2026, building on the website redesign we completed last fall. We are seeing early signs of improved engagement, including higher volumes of inbound activity and demo requests increased time spent on our website and more qualified leads.

我們近期也延攬一位資深行銷總監，具備深厚的模擬與國防產業人脈與資源。2026 年初，我們的行銷節奏顯著加快，並延續去年秋季完成的網站改版。我們已看到互動改善的早期跡象，包括更多的主動來詢與展示（demo）申請、網站停留時間增加，以及更多高品質潛在客戶。

We are also planning to expand our presence at key industry events to further strengthen visibility in development in 2026. Additionally, we continue to progress through the GSA reentry process, which we believe should be completed by Q3 and will shorten the path for agencies to -- from interest to order once completed.

我們也規劃在關鍵產業活動中擴大曝光，以在 2026 年進一步強化能見度與業務開發。此外，我們持續推進 GSA 重新上架流程，預期可於第三季完成；完成後將縮短各機關從產生興趣到下單的路徑。

We are continuing to engage with federal training stakeholders, including agencies with DHS, where we believe our solutions align well with evolving use cases around immersive judgment de-escalation and scenario-based readiness training.

我們也持續與聯邦訓練相關利害關係人互動，包括國土安全部（DHS）體系內的機關；我們相信，我們的解決方案與沉浸式判斷訓練、降級（de-escalation）以及情境式整備訓練等不斷演進的應用情境高度契合。

On the product side, our focus has been on increasing the value of our platform and delivering the best possible training outcomes in the industry. I want to highlight several developments that I believe are meaningful for our competitive position and long-term growth.

在產品方面，我們的重點是提升平台價值，並提供業界最佳的訓練成效。我想強調幾項我認為對我們競爭地位與長期成長具有重要意義的進展。

First, our APEX Analytics platform is now integrated across our system, enabling customers to capture and analyze performance data in real time and generate actionable insight around accuracy, reaction time and decision-making.

首先，我們的 APEX Analytics 平台現已整合至整個系統，使客戶能即時擷取並分析績效數據，並針對準確度、反應時間與決策制定產出可執行的洞察。

APEX is a meaningful step forward from traditional training environments and has already been a strong differentiator in recent customer wins. APEX also created the opportunity for ongoing engagement through customization and servicing, which could support a meaningful additional revenue model over time.

相較於傳統訓練環境，APEX 是一項具意義的躍進，且已在近期客戶得標中成為強而有力的差異化因素。APEX 也透過客製化與維護服務，創造持續互動的機會，長期而言可望支持一個具規模的新增營收模式。

We've also continued to advance our integration with VBS4, allowing for more flexibility and customized training environments tailored to specific customer requirements. We've demonstrated these capabilities with multiple US military groups in real-world training settings where feedback has been encouraging and highlights the relevance of our platform in a more advanced training use case.

我們也持續推進與 VBS4 的整合，使訓練環境更具彈性，並可依特定客戶需求打造客製化訓練場景。我們已在多個美軍單位的實地訓練情境中展示這些能力，回饋令人鼓舞，也凸顯我們平台在更進階訓練應用情境中的相關性。

Over time, this integration should further expand our role within the military training ecosystem and support additional services and development opportunities.

隨著時間推進，這項整合可望進一步擴大我們在軍事訓練生態系中的角色，並支持更多服務與開發機會。

In addition, we've introduced a drone defense training solution recently which is designed for correction professionals, helping agencies prepare for the growing threat of unauthorized drones in secure environments. This represents an expansion of our addressable market into a new and evolving use case where we are beginning to see early interest and engagement.

此外，我們近期推出一套無人機防禦訓練解決方案，專為矯正機關專業人員設計，協助各機關因應安全管制環境中未經授權無人機日益增加的威脅。這代表我們的可服務市場擴展至一個新的、持續演進的應用情境；我們已開始看到早期的興趣與互動。

Adoption of the V-XR platform continues to grow as well with multiple systems sold in recent months and additional demand building in the pipeline.

V-XR 平台的採用也持續成長，近幾個月已售出多套系統，且管線中仍在累積更多需求。

Across our product initiatives, the common theme is improving the value of our platform and deepening integration into agencies' training workflow. Our military pipeline continues to develop with active programs and evaluations underway across the Army, Navy, and Marine Corps. We currently have multiple opportunities in process, including demonstrations of our capability in real-world training environments.

在我們各項產品計畫中，共通主軸是提升平台價值，並加深與各機關訓練工作流程的整合。我們的軍方業務管線持續發展，目前在陸軍、海軍與海軍陸戰隊均有進行中的計畫與評估。我們目前有多個機會正在推進，包括在實地訓練環境中展示我們能力的活動。

These opportunities are supported by our enhanced reporting, analytics and customizable training environments. And in this period of lower revenue conversion, we have been focused on ensuring our solutions remain aligned with evolving military programs and requirements.

這些機會得益於我們強化的報告功能、分析能力以及可自訂的訓練環境。在這段營收轉換較低的期間，我們一直專注於確保我們的解決方案持續與不斷演進的軍方計畫與需求保持一致。

To summarize 2025, it was a challenging year driven by external funding disruptions that impacted timing. We are now seeing clear signs that funding is moving again with multiple cycling progress. We've maintained a strong customer engagement, built backlog, strengthened our commercial organization and prepared our operations to execute.

總結 2025 年，這是充滿挑戰的一年，主要由外部資金中斷所驅動，並影響了時程。我們現在已清楚看到資金正在重新流動，且多個資金循環正在推進。我們維持了強勁的客戶互動、建立了在手訂單（backlog）、強化了商務組織，並讓營運準備就緒以利執行。

As those fund cycles translate into awards and purchase orders, our focus is on converting that activity into revenue in a disciplined but efficient way.

隨著這些資金循環轉化為得標與採購訂單，我們的重點是在紀律但高效率的方式下，將這些活動轉換為營收。

With that, I'll turn the call over to Alanna for a detailed financial review. Alanna?

接下來，我把電話交給 Alanna 進行詳細的財務回顧。Alanna？

Thank you, John, and good afternoon, everyone. Now let's review our audited financial results for the fourth quarter and full year ended December 31, 2025.

謝謝你，John，各位下午好。現在讓我們回顧截至 2025 年 12 月 31 日止第四季與全年經審計的財務結果。

Our total revenue for the fourth quarter was $2.9 million compared to $4.7 million in the prior year period. The decrease was driven by those continued delays in government funding, the timing of customer procurement cycles and deferred deliveries across both domestic and international customers.

我們第四季總營收為 290 萬美元，較去年同期的 470 萬美元下降。下降主因為政府資金持續延遲、客戶採購週期的時點，以及國內與國際客戶的延後交付。

For the full year, our total revenue was $22.4 million compared to $26.4 million in 2024. The decline was primarily due to extending funding delays throughout the year. Breaking our full revenue down by market, our government revenue for the year was $17.8 million compared to $22.9 million in 2024.

全年總營收為 2,240 萬美元，較 2024 年的 2,640 萬美元下降。下滑主要是因為全年資金延遲時間拉長。按市場拆分全年營收，我們的政府端營收為 1,780 萬美元，較 2024 年的 2,290 萬美元下降。

International revenue for the year was $4.2 million compared to $3.1 million in 2024 and commercial revenue was approximately $400,000, consistent year over year. Our gross profit for the fourth quarter was $1.7 million or 58% of total revenue compared to $2.9 million or 62% in the prior year period. The decline was primarily due to that lower revenue volume.

全年國際營收為 420 萬美元，較 2024 年的 310 萬美元增加；商業營收約 40 萬美元，與去年大致持平。我們第四季毛利為 170 萬美元，占總營收 58%，較去年同期的 290 萬美元（占比 62%）下降；下降主要由較低的營收規模所致。

For the full year, gross profit totaled $15.2 million or 68% of revenue compared to $19.4 million or 74% in 2024.

全年毛利合計 1,520 萬美元，占營收 68%，較 2024 年的 1,940 萬美元（占比 74%）下降。

Our net operating expense for the fourth quarter was $3.3 million, a 23% decrease from $4.2 million in the prior year period. For the full year, net operating expense was $14.8 million compared to $17.4 million in 2024, representing a 15% reduction as we actively managed costs while continuing to invest in key areas of the business to help reaccelerate our growth.

第四季淨營業費用為 330 萬美元，較去年同期的 420 萬美元下降 23%。全年淨營業費用為 1,480 萬美元，較 2024 年的 1,740 萬美元下降 15%；我們在持續投資於業務關鍵領域以協助重新加速成長的同時，也積極管理成本。

Operating loss for the fourth quarter was $1.6 million compared to $1.3 million in the prior year period. And for the full year, operating income was $0.4 million compared to $2 million in 2024.

第四季營業損失為 160 萬美元，較去年同期的 130 萬美元擴大。全年營業利益為 40 萬美元，較 2024 年的 200 萬美元下降。

Net loss for the fourth quarter was $1 million or $0.09 per diluted share, consistent with the prior year period. And for the full year, net income was $3 million or $0.02 per diluted share compared to $1.4 million or $0.12 per diluted share in 2024.

第四季淨損為 100 萬美元，稀釋後每股虧損 0.09 美元，與去年同期一致。全年淨利為 300 萬美元，稀釋後每股盈餘 0.02 美元；相較之下，2024 年淨利為 140 萬美元，稀釋後每股盈餘 0.12 美元。

Our adjusted EBITDA for the full year was $1.6 million compared to $2.9 million in the prior year period. As we turn to the balance sheet, we ended the year with $18.6 million in cash and $30.8 million in working capital. This provides flexibility to navigate the current timing dynamics in the business.

全年調整後 EBITDA 為 160 萬美元，較去年同期的 290 萬美元下降。接著看資產負債表，我們年末現金為 1,860 萬美元，營運資金為 3,080 萬美元。這使我們能更有彈性地因應目前業務時點上的動態變化。

VirTra defines bookings as the total of newly signed contracts awarded RFPs and purchase orders received in a given period. And our bookings for the fourth quarter totaled $7.3 million, contributing to the full year bookings of $26.7 million.

VirTra 將「訂單（bookings）」定義為某一期間內新簽合約、獲授標的 RFP（招標案）以及收到的採購訂單之總和。我們第四季訂單總額為 730 萬美元，帶動全年訂單達 2,670 萬美元。

VirTra defines our backlog as the accumulation of bookings from signed contracts and purchase orders that are not yet started are or incomplete in their performance obligations, and therefore, cannot be recognized as revenue until delivery in a future period. So we segment that backlog into three primary categories. capital, which includes our simulators, our accessories, installation, training, custom content and our design work; service, which is primarily extended warranty and support contracts; step, which is our long-term subscription-based program.

VirTra 將「在手訂單（backlog）」定義為：來自已簽合約與採購訂單的訂單累積，但尚未開始或尚未完成其履約義務，因此在未來期間交付前無法認列為營收。因此我們將在手訂單分為三大類：資本（capital），包含我們的模擬器、配件、安裝、訓練、客製內容與設計工作；服務（service），主要為延長保固與支援合約；STEP，為我們長期的訂閱制方案。

Our backlog at December 31, 2025, stood at $25.6 million. That included $13.8 million in capital, $5.1 million in service and $6.7 million in STEP contracts.

截至 2025 年 12 月 31 日，我們的在手訂單為 2,560 萬美元。其中包含資本 1,380 萬美元、服務 510 萬美元，以及 STEP 合約 670 萬美元。

So that concludes my prepared remarks. And I'll turn the call back over to John for his closing comments. John?

以上是我事先準備的發言。接下來我把電話交回給 John 進行結語。John？

Thank you, Alanna.

謝謝你，Alanna。

At the start of 2026, we are beginning to see the macro condition shift with funding moving back into the system and customers' activity increasing. We have used this period to strengthen our sales and marketing execution and enhance our product capabilities. With a robust backlog, continued support engagement and the operational infrastructure and processes in place to scale, our focus is on converting that activity into revenue in a disciplined and efficient manner.

在 2026 年初，我們開始看到總體環境出現轉變：資金重新回到體系中，客戶活動也在增加。我們利用這段期間強化銷售與行銷的執行力，並提升產品能力。憑藉強勁的在手訂單、持續的支援互動，以及已就位可擴張的營運基礎設施與流程，我們的重點是在紀律且高效率的方式下，將這些活動轉換為營收。

That concludes my prepared remarks. Operator?

以上是我事先準備的發言。接線員？

(Operator Instructions) Jaeson Schmidt, Lake Street Capital.

（接線員指示）Jaeson Schmidt，Lake Street Capital。

John, just hoping you can expand a little bit about your commentary on the expansion of engagements with the military market. Just curious if that is expanding into different programs? Is it kind of additional systems being trialed? Or how should we think about that?

John，我希望你能再多談一點你對於與軍方市場互動擴大的評論。想了解這是否擴展到不同的計畫？是有額外的系統正在試用嗎？或者我們應該如何看待這件事？

Yes, all of those are accurate. So we have multiple engagements across Army, Navy and in the Marine Corps. We've engaged with them to find out exactly what they're looking for the systems. My commentary previous about how we are focusing on the systems and making them military ready. It harden them for Elli as well, but there is a different dynamic in which the military requires a very dynamic adaptive as they think and learn on a system.

是的，上述情況都正確。我們在陸軍、海軍以及海軍陸戰隊都有多項互動。我們與他們接觸，以釐清他們對系統的具體需求。我先前提到我們正專注於系統並使其符合軍規、讓其更適合軍用；同時也會為 Elli 進行強固化，但軍方有不同的動態需求，他們要求系統能非常動態、具適應性，能隨著他們在系統上思考與學習而調整。

So that's where VBS came into play. We've had very -- the programs that are out there, there's no secret they're out -- there is the SVT, the Soldier Virtual Trainer. There's several others that are out there as well and extending some of the ones that we currently have with ADMIRE and with special operations.

這就是 VBS 發揮作用的地方。我們已經有一些——目前外界已有的計畫並不是秘密——例如 SVT（Soldier Virtual Trainer，士兵虛擬訓練器）。另外也還有幾個計畫，同時也在延伸我們目前已與 ADMIRE 以及特種作戰單位合作的一些專案。

We also have -- Navy has contracts coming up and our engagements at ITSEC, the large show in Orlando was quite a hit. We have 1-box called our V-100 next generation, which puts everything in one box. It's portable, and it's a hit and they're looking to replace some aging sits and ones that have lack of technology and aren't nearly as mobile out there in the field. And so we've really honed our training and also our system to meet those needs, and they're all benefiting.

另外，海軍也有即將到期的合約，而我們在 ITSEC（奧蘭多的大型展會）的互動反應相當熱烈。我們有一款「一體箱」產品，稱為 V-100 次世代，把所有東西都整合在一個箱子裡；它可攜式、很受歡迎，他們正尋求汰換一些老舊的系統與缺乏技術、且在野外部署時機動性不足的設備。因此我們確實已精進訓練內容與系統以滿足這些需求，大家都因此受益。

So there are programs out there that you can look up that I've mentioned on these calls before, that's there. We also have several other military groups that are they're taking our systems and they're doing valuations with their staff like gunnery sergeants and those sorts of things and looking at it as a replacement.

所以外面確實有一些計畫，你可以查到，我在之前的電話會議也提過。我們也還有其他幾個軍方團體正在採用我們的系統，並由他們的幕僚（例如砲術士官等這類人員）進行評估，將其視為替代方案。

So the activity is quite robust right now. Much longer sales cycles, but we've been at for a bit. So we're looking forward to those coming to fruition.

所以目前的活動相當熱絡。銷售週期會長得多，但我們已經投入一段時間了。因此我們期待這些能夠開花結果。

Okay. Great. That's good to hear. And then understanding that the funding environment remains challenging. Just curious what you're seeing from sort of a quoting activity standpoint so far this year? And just overall, kind of sales touch points even against this kind of more challenging backdrop?

好的，很好。很高興聽到這些。接著，在資金環境仍具挑戰的情況下，我想了解你們今年到目前為止在報價活動（quoting activity）方面看到什麼？以及整體而言，在這種更具挑戰的背景下，銷售接觸點（sales touch points）的情況如何？

Yes. As I stated, the demand has been -- remained high, and I would say it's even higher. And what our focus has been is a lot of these agencies have relied on multiple different grants that came from multiple places. And as I stated, it's been unfortunate because none of the money that was allocated in these grants for fiscal year '25, which was awarded in October of '24.

是的。如我所說，需求一直維持在高檔，我甚至會說更高。我們的重點在於，許多機構仰賴來自多個來源的多種補助金。而如我所說，這很不幸，因為在這些補助金中為 2025 會計年度所編列的資金——該資金是在 2024 年 10 月核定——至今仍未到位。

And then subsequently, '26 is and October of '25 those have just been released, and we already expect that I've been on Capitol Hill and we've been going through why it's important, and then we've been in front of legislators and said they need to lease some money. So what we do expect is we expect a pretty regimented release of funding.

接著，隨後，'26 年以及 '25 年 10 月的那些資金剛剛釋出，而我們已經預期——我一直在國會山莊，並且我們一直在說明為什麼這很重要；然後我們也在立法者面前表示，他們需要撥出一些資金。因此，我們確實預期的是，我們預期資金會以相當有規律的方式釋出。

The only caveat to that, that I would say is, so the quoting has increased. So we've got the quotes out there and they're just sitting. Then Unfortunately, it's up to because we can't legally submit these grants. So we help them in any way that we can. And stay side-by-side with them. We have people in-house that we're giving them the information that they need about the system and helping what we can.

我想說唯一的但書是，報價（quoting）增加了。所以我們已經把報價提供出去了，但它們就只是擱著。然後不幸的是，因為我們在法律上不能代為提交這些補助金申請，所以接下來就取決於他們。我們會盡我們所能協助他們，並與他們並肩作戰。我們內部有人員會提供他們關於系統所需的資訊，並在我們能做的範圍內提供協助。

And they still have to submit it and then they still have to be down selected. So there still is a bit of a process, but we haven't even had that process moving to the last two years. So that's a great sign. As far as other activity, we're also starting to see on the same time frame, our international market, we'll start to see those monies flow as well.

而他們仍然必須提交，之後仍然必須經過篩選（down selected）。所以流程仍然存在一些程序，但在過去兩年我們甚至沒有看到這個流程在推進。因此這是個很好的跡象。至於其他活動，我們也開始看到在相同的時間框架下，我們的國際市場也會開始看到那些資金流入。

And the only monies that are not flowing is DHS. As you know, we have DHS with Customs and Border Patrol is our customer, and we have Secret Service as our customer, and we have Coast Guard. And so as we talk about them as our upcoming upgrades and purchasing new systems, all that's come to a grinding halt. That's the only one that we were down that path and it just came to a halt.

而唯一沒有資金流動的是 DHS。各位知道，我們在 DHS 方面，海關與邊境保護局（Customs and Border Patrol）是我們的客戶，特勤局（Secret Service）是我們的客戶，還有海岸防衛隊（Coast Guard）。因此，當我們談到他們即將進行的升級與採購新系統時，這一切都戛然而止。這是唯一一個我們原本已經走在那條路上，卻突然停下來的。

And there's other agencies as well. You know about that are also engaged with us. wanting systems. So the orders, the interest, the demand, it's all there. It's got to free up the funding. And we're doing everything we can to help move that forward.

另外也還有其他機構，各位也知道，他們同樣與我們接洽、想要系統。所以訂單、興趣、需求都在；只是必須讓資金釋放出來。我們正在盡一切努力協助推動這件事。

(Operator Instructions) Richard Baldry, Roth Capital Partners.

（接線員指示）Roth Capital Partners 的 Richard Baldry。

Sort of following on that and building on what you've talked about during the call. Looking on more detail at sort of like the process it will take to get the money to move. So while it's been held have people been building sort of grant documentation, so that could kind of move across the table very quickly?

延續這個話題並在你們在電話會議中談到的內容上再深入一些。我想更細節地了解讓資金開始流動所需要的流程。所以在資金被擱置期間，大家是否一直在準備補助金申請文件，讓它可以很快就送交審核？

Do they, for some reason, not start that so that process still has to fully take place? Sort of any time lines around from submission to approval, things that you've seen in the past under normal circumstances to give us a feel for how flow will be slower quickly continue to start to see some of these things move?

還是說他們因為某些原因沒有開始準備，因此整個流程仍然必須完整走一遍？另外，從提交到核准的時間線如何——在過去正常情況下你們看到的是什麼——讓我們感受一下資金流動會是慢慢開始，還是會很快就看到一些案子推進？

Yes. I mean, that's the crystal ball, right? The problem is there really hasn't been any consistency on we get a consistency of end of April, mid and end of April, several of these grants are due. 2.5 months, almost three months ago, we have what we call a grant stage in our CRM and Salesforce. And what we've done is all the sales folks have been working with them on a regular basis and constant.

是的。我的意思是，那就是水晶球，對吧？問題在於，確實一直缺乏一致性。我們能掌握到的一致性是：4 月底、4 月中下旬，有好幾個補助金的截止日。2.5 個月、將近三個月前，我們在 CRM 與 Salesforce 裡有一個我們稱為「補助金階段」（grant stage）的欄位。而我們所做的是，所有業務人員都一直定期且持續地與他們合作。

They've already have quotes. They already like the system. They want the system. They have the training need. They just don't have the funds. So as soon we knew that there was something coming out, all the sales folks started that process, and that process is just that, whether it's demographics or geographics or certain types of training, there are specifications.

他們已經拿到報價了。他們已經喜歡這個系統。他們想要這個系統。他們有訓練需求。他們只是沒有資金。所以一旦我們知道會有相關資金釋出，所有業務人員就開始啟動那個流程；而那個流程就是——不論是人口結構、地理因素或某些訓練類型，都有規格要求。

And so we've grouped each of those and help them identify which grant that they would most likely be a good candidate for so with a higher success rate. So we've done that so that grant stage consists of the number of police departments across the country. And then once -- then there's things like what does the system do. So we have a lot of that information that's just block information that we can give them.

因此我們把每一類都分組，並協助他們辨識他們最可能適合申請哪一個補助金，以提高成功率。我們已經這麼做了，所以那個補助金階段包含了全國各地警察局的數量。然後接著——還有像是系統能做什麼之類的內容。因此我們有很多這類可直接提供的制式資訊（block information）。

And then they have to fill out an application and then they have other items and things that they have to that we have no visibility on once that's complete, then they submit it by the time line. Once it goes there, unfortunately, Rich, I can't tell you what the timeline is.

然後他們必須填寫申請表，並且還有其他項目與事項需要完成；一旦那部分完成後，我們就沒有能見度了。完成後，他們會依照時間線提交。一旦送出之後，不幸的是，Rich，我無法告訴你時間線會是什麼。

We've seen it three months and then we've seen it a year and then we've seen in 18 months. So it does vary, and it also varies based on the number of submissions they get and the level of staffing that they have of the administrators of those particular grants. And not one grant not all grants are created equal because you're coming out of different departments, but sometimes for the same thing.

我們看過三個月，也看過一年，也看過 18 個月。所以確實會有差異；而且也取決於他們收到的申請件數，以及各個補助金管理單位的行政人員編制水準。並且不是每一個補助金都一樣，因為它們來自不同部門，但有時候是為了同一件事。

So that's -- and then there's a level of priority for what they're looking for. If it's immigration and those sorts of things, if they have scenarios and things that they need to in their certain geographic area, they may have a priority or a precedent. And it's uncertain who the source selection committee and how they determine that.

所以這就是——另外還有他們尋找項目的優先順序。如果是移民相關以及那類事項，如果他們在特定地理區域有情境與需求，他們可能會有優先順序或先例。而且也不確定評選委員會（source selection committee）是誰，以及他們如何做出判定。

So the best thing I can tell you is, at least we have a deadline right now of submission and we have our team that's working directly with all those customers that have had active quotes for a while, and we're working them through and helping them telling what they have to do and reading all the documentations and kind of walking them through as much as we can and then it would be up to them.

所以我能告訴你最好的情況是：至少我們現在有一個提交截止日，而且我們的團隊正直接與所有那些已經有一段時間持續存在有效報價的客戶合作；我們正在帶著他們往前走、協助他們、告訴他們必須做什麼、閱讀所有文件，並盡可能帶著他們走過流程，然後就取決於他們了。

After that, when it's all collected, they have a source selection committee that review all of them. And I don't know always how they choose the different groups. But then what we do is we collect all that data and then we start to normalize it, so if anybody else in the queue and someone with a certain geographic or demographic or size agency or training specific need we then look for folks in our -- in our grant stage, and then we'll start pushing them towards those grants.

在那之後，當所有資料都收齊，他們會有一個評選委員會來審查全部申請。我也不總是知道他們如何選擇不同的群組。不過我們會把所有資料收集起來，然後開始把它標準化（normalize）；因此如果在隊列中還有其他人，且有人符合某些地理、人口結構、機構規模或特定訓練需求，我們就會在我們的——在我們的補助金階段名單中找人，然後開始推動他們去申請那些補助金。

So we do have a methodology that we're doing with as much as we can, but there are a lot of variables. But that's a great question. I wish I knew all the answers, Rich.

所以我們確實有一套方法論，會在我們能力所及的範圍內去做，但變數很多。不過這是個很好的問題。我希望我知道所有答案，Rich。

So if I look at your backlog, if I put the services and STEP together, is it fair to view that as those two combined and then divide by for whatever. Is that an annual sort of baseline? Or even the services and STEP can be multiyear, so I can't really think of it that way?

那如果我看你們的 backlog（在手訂單/待履約訂單），如果我把 services 和 STEP 加在一起，是否可以把它視為兩者合計後再除以某個數字——也就是一個年度的基準？還是說 services 和 STEP 也可能是多年期，所以不能那樣看？

Now that -- your latter, you can't really think about -- I'm going to online do some commentary. So backlog, as you said, is three components. And you can have services and warranty. So on a capital system, you also have the maintenance and warranty so it could be multiple years as well. So we may have a larger concentration in year two and three or one and two, one might be coming off another one going on.

對——你後面那個說法，你不能那樣看——我先做一些補充說明。所以 backlog 如你所說有三個組成部分。你可能有服務與保固。因此在一個資本性系統（capital system）上，你也會有維護與保固，所以也可能是多年期。因此我們可能在第 2、3 年的比重更高，或是在第 1、2 年；可能一個合約到期、另一個合約開始。

So it's very hard to break that down to just say look, you got $25 million in backlog. Clearly, not all of it, even if we were incredibly efficient, everything cleared up, you're not going to get $25 million. I think the cap was what you say, was $12 million, yes. So it's hard to say that.

所以很難把它拆解成只是說：你有 2,500 萬美元的 backlog。很明顯地，就算我們效率非常高、所有事情都順利清除，你也不可能拿到 2,500 萬美元。我想你說的上限是 1,200 萬美元，對嗎？所以很難那樣說。

Alanna, did you want to make a commentary on that?

Alanna，你想對這點補充說明嗎？

Yes. I was just going to say the problem is the bookings and backlog, especially for the STEP. We have STEP contracts that we've signed this year that are three years long. And then we have STEPs that we signed the year before or whatever that were five years long. And some of those weren't the guarantees so those are in our future STEP revenue as opposed to what we just talked about on the call.

是的。我只是想說，問題在於 bookings（接單）和 backlog，尤其是 STEP。我們今年簽的 STEP 合約有三年期的；然後我們也有前一年或其他時間簽的五年期 STEP。有些並不是保證（guarantees），所以那些會列在我們未來的 STEP 收入中，而不是我們剛剛在電話會議中談到的那部分。

If you look in the K, we think that on top of that backlog, we have additional $2.5 million that hasn't been resigned or committed to, that can also be part of that, but that is another year or two. So STEP can be anywhere from one year from now to all the way up to four years from now for revenue conversion.

如果你看 10-K，我們認為在那個 backlog 之外，還有額外 250 萬美元尚未續簽或承諾，也可能成為其中一部分，但那會是在再往後一到兩年。因此，STEP 的收入轉換可能從距今一年到最長四年不等。

And the same goes for the same goes for the warranty service plans. Some people signed a one-year agreement. Some people signed three-year agreements. Occasionally, somebody will allow somebody to sign a five-year agreement. So it's not quite as easy as just divide by four because there's a mix in those numbers.

保固服務方案也是同樣的情況。有些人簽了一年期合約，有些人簽了三年期合約。偶爾也會有人允許簽五年期合約。所以它不像直接除以 4 那麼容易，因為這些數字是混合的。

And the capital stands out a little as well because some of that capital are for what we talked about our international customers or development work that isn't going to convert until later in '26 through early '27, depending on when they can accept those items.

資本支出看起來也會稍微突出一些，因為其中一部分資本是用在我們剛才談到的國際客戶，或是一些要到 2026 年後期到 2027 年初才會轉換的開發工作，取決於他們何時能驗收那些項目。

Alanna, you can correct me, but if you did want to do a quick number and you want to be on the conservative side, taking the STEP and dividing it by 4 would give you a very conservative number.

Alanna，你可以糾正我，但如果你想快速估算、而且想保守一點，把 STEP 除以 4 會得到一個非常保守的數字。

Got it. And we're sort of backing into fourth-quarter numbers using your full year. I don't know if I heard this or not, can you tell me what the fourth quarter adjusted EBITDA number was as a stand-alone?

了解。我們是用你提供的全年數字來反推第四季的數字。我不確定我有沒有聽到，你能告訴我第四季單季的調整後 EBITDA 是多少嗎？

Yes. I don't have that reported in the K for the thing. So it will give me a minute to get that for you. You can move on if you want to another question for John.

可以。我在那份 K 表裡沒有把那個數字報出來，所以我需要一點時間幫你找。你如果想的話可以先往下，問 John 另一個問題。

Yes. The last one for me would be, are there any upcoming important milestones on the military side that we would see on our side of the table? Or is it sort of a status where we're going to have to wait until something larger is announced by one of the other contractors maybe?

好的。我最後一個問題是，在軍方那邊接下來有沒有任何重要的里程碑，是我們這邊能看得到的？還是說目前的狀態是我們得等到其他承包商宣布更大的消息？

Yes. It's a good question. It's a mix of both. So there are larger contracts where we are a smaller component of that we're partnering with others to go after. But then there's larger contracts that are coming out that are more specific to us that will be the prime contractor on that we're bidding. And those you can see there's quite a few of them in all agent, all different branches of the service have several that are out there.

是的，這是個好問題。兩者都有。所以有一些較大的合約，我們只是其中較小的一個組成部分，會與其他夥伴合作一起爭取。但也有一些較大的合約會更聚焦在我們身上，我們會以主承包商（prime contractor）的身分去投標。這些你可以看到其實有不少，涵蓋各個軍種、不同的部門，都有好幾個案子在那裡。

The one thing that we do see, I will mention this is because of what happened with dose and then some of the military has done, at least the Army has done in their acquisition core has just done a massive restructuring and one entity down and created a new one and move them around on who's responsible. And so there is something of a speculation that some of these marksmanship training simulators, some of these programs may be combined to may be a much larger one.

我想提的一點是，因為之前發生在 dose 的事情，以及軍方（至少陸軍）在其採購體系所做的一些動作，他們進行了大規模重組：撤掉了一個單位、成立了一個新單位，並重新調整各方的責任歸屬。因此外界有一些推測，某些射擊／射術訓練模擬器、某些計畫可能會被整併成一個更大型的計畫。

And we're well positioned for those. But the larger ones may require that we actually take on a sub that may have staffing and those sorts of things that can -- because it's across the world, not just the US.

而我們在這些案子上具備很好的位置。不過更大型的案子可能會要求我們實際承接一個分包商（sub），可能需要人力配置等各種事項——因為它是全球性的，不只是美國。

Maybe one more last one for me. Big topic across any of my software-driven companies is really AI these days. So maybe can you talk about to what extent you think AI is a threat? What extent you think it's perhaps able to be monetized and maybe incremental offerings?

也許我再問最後一個。現在在我所有以軟體驅動的公司裡，AI 真的是很大的話題。所以你能談談你認為 AI 在多大程度上是威脅？在多大程度上可能可以變現、或帶來增量型的產品／服務？

And third, what extent you could use it internally to streamline processes, make things more efficient?

第三，你們在多大程度上可以在內部使用它來精簡流程、提升效率？

That's a fantastic question, Rich, and I don't see it as a threat. I see it as an igniter. And what I mean by that is we'll be able to do a lot more with less. What's happening in the AI world right now is they're coming out with AI skill sets, and they're coming out with AI models. And we're taking advantage of the models and the skill set.

Rich，這是個非常棒的問題。我不把它視為威脅，我把它視為點火器（igniter）。我的意思是，我們將能用更少的資源做更多的事。現在 AI 領域正在推出各種 AI 技能集（skill sets），也在推出 AI 模型。我們正在善用這些模型與技能集。

So a skill set might be is that it's programming facial recognition in a gaming environment with textured characters. So that could be one. And we're taking advantage of those. One we'll give you an example is we did a -- we do video shoots there like Hollywood movies basically to be able to get our scenarios.

所謂技能集，可能是例如：在遊戲環境中、針對有材質貼圖的角色去做臉部辨識的程式設計。這就是其中一種。我們正在利用這些能力。舉個例子，我們會做——我們會進行影片拍攝，基本上就像好萊塢電影那樣，以便取得我們的情境素材。

That's why they're so good. The team took one of these AI models and they took all of the scenes and scenarios that they had recorded and then they have this AI model, and they actually made an opening trailer for the scene with assets that they couldn't record on and it was quite amazing. I mean, even the team was amazing. They've been at this for some of them for 30 years in this industry.

這也是為什麼它們效果那麼好。團隊採用其中一個 AI 模型，把他們錄製的所有場景與情境素材丟進去，然後用這個 AI 模型做出一支該場景的開場預告片，還加入了他們無法實際拍攝到的資產，效果相當驚人。我的意思是，連團隊自己都覺得很驚艷——其中有些人在這個產業已經做了 30 年。

We're also using it as far as comparative as using software and codeword was kind of made for as you find bugs and you find things inside your software, do a comparative analysis Sims took a long time to thread through all these millions of lines of code. And the AI model of this skill set for programming would be able to identify a potential area of this code.

我們也把它用在比較分析上，例如用於軟體與程式碼——codeword 之類的工具原本就是用來找 bug、找出軟體裡的問題，做比較分析。過去在模擬系統裡，要把數百萬行程式碼全部梳理一遍需要很久。而具備程式設計能力的 AI 模型／技能集，能夠指出這段程式碼中可能有問題的區域。

You still need that skill set with very strong skill sets to identify, but it narrowed it down if we were able to fix a few things and identify performance-related issues in a matter of days rather than a matter of months or maybe even through two or three different releases of software. So that is pretty significant.

你仍然需要具備很強的專業能力去確認，但它能把範圍大幅縮小；如果我們能修正一些問題並找出與效能相關的議題，就能在幾天內完成，而不是幾個月，甚至不必拖到兩三個不同版本的軟體釋出後才解決。所以這相當重要。

The other one that's really coming around is the AI tutor. What do I mean by that? If you go to a weapons range and you shoot at the target and you shoot a grouping of five shots in one area, but you have one or two that are out on the side. Unless an instructor is there watching you, they would normally say, oh, well, you took -- you didn't breathe right, you pulled the trigger, you blink your eyes, whatever that is.

另一個正在成形的是 AI 教練（AI tutor）。這是什麼意思？如果你到靶場射擊，你的五發彈著群集中在某個區域，但有一兩發偏到旁邊。除非有教官在旁觀察，否則通常教官會說：喔，你剛才——你呼吸不對、你扣扳機的方式不對、你眨眼了，等等。

Now what we're able to do is take standard operating procedures, instructors, nodes, cognitive performance studies, whatever it is, throw it into that AI model and then once the shot is taken, we then can look at that, we can have AI look at all the information that we put into that model and then analyze the results and give suggestions of what may happen. So there's that AI tutor as well.

現在我們能做的是，把標準作業程序（SOP）、教官的知識、節點、認知表現研究等各種資料丟進那個 AI 模型；然後在射擊完成後，我們就能回看，我們可以讓 AI 去看我們放進模型的所有資訊，分析結果並給出可能原因的建議。因此也就有了這個 AI 教練。

So it's not a replacement, but at least gets you because what our systems have always done is it presents a target, just like you're on the range. It shows you your results of what you've done, but then there's no one there to give an analysis. So this section of AI that we're using now is there's -- it's able to do the analysis as well.

所以它不是取代人，但至少能補上缺口。因為我們的系統一直以來能做的是：呈現目標，就像你在靶場一樣；顯示你的射擊結果，但沒有人在旁邊做分析。而我們現在使用的這一段 AI——它也能進行分析。

And then there's a multitude of other areas that we're taking AI and looking at. It's a performance enhancement. Monetizing is a different story in ours. We're looking at ways to monetize AI in that regard. That's a little tougher question, a little bit harder look but what we are doing is we're seeing our bottom line, we're seeing cost savings across the board because of our implementation of these AI models and these AI skill sets.

此外我們還在許多其他領域導入並評估 AI。它是一種效能提升。至於變現（monetizing）在我們這裡是另一回事；我們正在尋找在這方面變現的方法。這個問題比較難、也需要更深入的評估。但我們正在看到的是，我們的獲利底線正在改善，因為導入這些 AI 模型與 AI 技能集後，全公司範圍內都出現了成本節省。

Alanna, did you get that?

Alanna，你有拿到那個數字嗎？

Yes. Rich, yes, it's a negative $0.9 million.

有的。Rich，是負的 0.9 百萬美元。

And ladies and gentlemen, at this time, this concludes our question-and-answer session. Thank you for joining us today for VirTra's fourth-quarter and full-year 2025 conference call. You may now disconnect.

各位女士先生，現在問答環節到此結束。感謝各位今天參加 VirTra 2025 年第四季與全年電話會議。您現在可以掛線。