Virtus Investment Partners Inc (VRTS) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning. My name is Dee Dee and I will be your conference operator today.

早安.我叫 Dee Dee，今天我將擔任您的會議主持人。

I would like to welcome everyone to the Virtus Investment Partners quarterly conference call. The slide presentation for this call is available in the Investor Relations section of the Virtus website, www.virtus.com. This call is being recorded and will be available for replay on the Virtus website. (Operator Instructions)

歡迎大家參加 Virtus Investment Partners 季度電話會議。本次電話會議的幻燈片簡報可在 Virtus 網站 www.virtus.com 的投資者關係板塊取得。本次電話會議將被錄音，並將在 Virtus 網站上提供重播。（操作員指示）

I will now turn the conference to your host, Sean Rourke.

現在我將會議轉交給主持人 Sean Rourke。

Thanks, Dee Dee, and good morning, everyone.

謝謝，Dee Dee，大家早安。

On behalf of Virtus Investment Partners, I'd like to welcome you to the discussion of our operating and financial results for the second quarter of 2025. Our speakers today are George Aylward, President and CEO; and Michael Angerthal, Chief Financial Officer. Following the prepared remarks, we'll have a Q&A period.

我謹代表 Virtus Investment Partners 歡迎您參加我們 2025 年第二季的營運與財務業績討論。我們今天的演講者是總裁兼執行長喬治·艾爾沃德 (George Aylward) 和財務長邁克爾·安格塔爾 (Michael Angerthal)。準備好的發言之後，我們將進入問答環節。

Before we begin, please note the disclosures on page 2 of the slide presentation. Certain matters discussed on this call may contain forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995, and as such, are subject to known and unknown risks and uncertainties, including but not limited to those factors set forth in today's news release and discussed in our SEC filings. These risks and uncertainties may cause actual results to differ materially from those discussed in the statements.

在我們開始之前，請注意幻燈片簡報第 2 頁上的揭露。本次電話會議討論的某些事項可能包含《1995 年私人證券訴訟改革法案》所定義的前瞻性陳述，因此，受已知和未知風險和不確定性的影響，包括但不限於今天的新聞稿中闡明的因素以及我們提交給美國證券交易委員會的文件中討論的因素。這些風險和不確定性可能導致實際結果與聲明中討論的結果有重大差異。

In addition to results presented on a GAAP basis, we use certain non-GAAP measures to evaluate our financial results. Our non-GAAP financial measures are not substitutes for GAAP financial results and should be read in conjunction with the GAAP results. Reconciliations of these non-GAAP financial measures, the applicable GAAP measures, are included in today's news release and financial supplement, which are available on our website.

除了按照 GAAP 呈現的結果外，我們還使用某些非 GAAP 指標來評估我們的財務結果。我們的非 GAAP 財務指標無法取代 GAAP 財務結果，應與 GAAP 結果結合閱讀。這些非 GAAP 財務指標（適用的 GAAP 指標）的對帳表包含在今天的新聞稿和財務補充文件中，可在我們的網站上查閱。

Now, I'd like to turn the call over to George. George.

現在，我想把電話轉給喬治。喬治。

Thank you, Sean, and good morning, everyone. Today, I'll start with an overview of the results we reported this morning and then I'll turn it over to Mike for more detail.

謝謝你，肖恩，大家早安。今天，我將首先概述我們今天上午報告的結果，然後再交給麥克來詳細介紹。

The second quarter began with challenging market conditions and volatility, but then had steady improvement culminating in momentum by June, which is reflected in our financial and operating results. Assets under management grew 2% in the quarter, benefiting from the market rebound off April lows. Net outflows across products were primarily in our quality-oriented equity strategies, which faced headwinds in a market environment that largely favored momentum-driven strategies.

第二季開始時市場環境充滿挑戰且波動較大，但隨後市場穩定改善，到 6 月勢頭強勁，這反映在我們的財務和經營業績上。受益於市場從 4 月低點反彈，本季管理資產成長了 2%。各產品的淨流出主要集中在我們以品質為導向的股票策略中，在主要青睞動量驅動策略的市場環境下，這些策略面臨阻力。

Key highlights of the quarter included higher earnings per share and operating margin, continued positive net flows and ETFs, strong long-term relative investment performance, our highest level of share repurchases in three years, and low net leverage and meaningful liquidity providing ongoing flexibility to invest in the business and return capital to shareholders. We continue to focus on the execution of various initiatives related to expanding our offerings and channel availability, both organically as well as through inorganic opportunities.

本季的主要亮點包括更高的每股盈餘和營業利潤率、持續的正淨流量和 ETF、強勁的長期相對投資業績、三年來最高的股票回購水準、低淨槓桿率和有意義的流動性，為投資業務和向股東返還資本提供了持續的靈活性。我們將繼續專注於實施各種與擴大我們的產品和通路可用性有關的舉措，包括有機成長和無機成長。

As we commented on last quarter, we've been focused on expanding our offerings of retail separate accounts, ETFs, and global funds. For ETFs and global funds, we anticipate launching multiple products over the coming quarters, including from Silvant, Sykes, Stone Harbor, and AlphaSimplex.

正如我們在上個季度所評論的那樣，我們一直致力於擴大零售獨立帳戶、ETF 和全球基金的產品範圍。對於 ETF 和全球基金，我們預計在未來幾季推出多種產品，包括 Silvant、Sykes、Stone Harbor 和 AlphaSimplex 的產品。

Retail separate accounts, we are expanding our offerings of fixed income and high conviction, growth equity strategies, as well as products that leverage multiple managers and strategies. In addition, we are leveraging our fixed income capabilities with our first interval fund. We also have efforts underway to increase the availability of our growing ETF offerings and to expand the asset-raising capabilities of our well-regarded wealth management business within Kayne Anderson, which has grown to nearly $9 billion in assets.

零售獨立帳戶，我們正在擴大固定收益和高信念、成長型股票策略以及利用多個經理和策略的產品。此外，我們正在利用我們的第一個間隔基金來發揮我們的固定收益能力。我們也正在努力增加我們不斷成長的 ETF 產品的可用性，並擴大 Kayne Anderson 內部備受好評的財富管理業務的資產籌集能力，該業務的資產已增長到近 90 億美元。

As we focus on growth opportunities, we would note that the environment continues to be highly attractive for product expansion, distribution enhancing, or scale-oriented inorganic transactions. We remain optimistic about such opportunities, particularly in the areas of current and growing investor interest, such as private markets and differentiated and compelling traditional strategies, which we're actively pursuing.

當我們關注成長機會時，我們會注意到環境對於產品擴展、分銷增強或規模導向的無機交易仍然具有極大的吸引力。我們對這些機會仍然持樂觀態度，特別是在當前和日益增長的投資者興趣領域，例如私人市場以及我們正在積極追求的差異化和引人注目的傳統策略。

The number of opportunities at various stages in the pipeline is at its highest level,l as well as it's a broad range of structures, capabilities, and sizes. Our strong liquidity and flexible balance sheet position us well to act on any strategically and financially compelling opportunities.

管道中各個階段的機會數量處於最高水平，並且結構、能力和規模範圍廣泛。我們強大的流動性和靈活的資產負債表使我們能夠抓住任何具有策略和財務吸引力的機會。

Turning to investment performance, we are pleased with the performance we've generated over market cycles. Over the 10-year period, 74% of our equity assets and 69% of our fixed income assets beat their benchmark.

談到投資業績，我們對市場週期中所取得的業績感到滿意。在過去的 10 年裡，我們 74% 的股票資產和 69% 的固定收益資產超過了基準。

For just mutual funds, 73% of equity funds and 85% of fixed funds outperform the pure medium. I would also note that 27 of our retail funds are rated 4 or 5 stars, and 86% of our rated fund retail fund assets were in 3, 4, or 5 stars. We've included a new slide that provides additional investment performance information.

僅就共同基金而言，73% 的股票基金和 85% 的固定基金的表現優於純中型基金。我還要指出的是，我們的 27 檔零售基金被評為 4 星或 5 星，我們評級基金零售基金資產的 86% 為 3 星、4 星或 5 星。我們新增了一張新投影片，其中提供了額外的投資績效資訊。

Turning now to a review of the results, total assets under management were $171 billion on June 30, up to $4 billion sequentially due to market performance. Total sales of $5.6 billion compared with $6.2 billion in the first quarter with modest decline across products, which was in part a reflection of market disruption, particularly early in the quarter.

現在回顧業績，6 月 30 日，管理的總資產為 1,710 億美元，由於市場表現，環比增長 40 億美元。總銷售額為 56 億美元，而第一季為 62 億美元，各產品均出現小幅下降，這在一定程度上反映了市場混亂，尤其是在本季度初。

Trends improved over the course of the quarter, with June being our best month of net flows, including essentially break-even net flows and open-end funds. Total net outflows for the quarter of $3.9 billion were largely in equity strategies as fixed income alternatives and multi-assets each had modest net outflows.

本季趨勢有所改善，6 月是我們淨流量最好的月份，包括基本損益平衡的淨流量和開放式基金。本季總淨流出量為 39 億美元，主要流向股票策略，因為固定收益替代品和多種資產的淨流出量均較小。

We did continue to have positive net flows in ETFs, which reached $3.7 billion in AUM with an organic growth rate of 74% over the trailing 12 months and which had $3.9 billion as of yesterday. Looking at flows across assets, the equity net outflows were driven by strategies with a quality orientation in a market that favored momentum, as well as we reduced sales from the soft closing of the smid cap core equity model offering late last year.

我們的 ETF 淨流入確實持續為正，其 AUM 達到 37 億美元，過去 12 個月的有機成長率為 74%，截至昨日已達 39 億美元。從資產流動來看，股票淨流出是由傾向於動量的市場中以品質為導向的策略所驅動，同時，我們減少了去年年底中型核心股票模型發行軟關閉帶來的銷售額。

Fixed income net flows were modestly negative for the quarter with net outflows in April and May, and a return to positive flows in June. Relative investment performance of our fixed income strategies has been strong for the recent one-year period, as well as the longer term, creating demand for funds across the spectrum of credit quality and duration, several of which were among our top-selling funds in ETFs in the quarter. Net flows of alternative strategies were also modestly negative with favorable trends throughout the quarter, including positive net flows in June.

本季固定收益淨流量略為負值，4 月和 5 月出現淨流出，6 月又轉為正值。我們的固定收益策略的相對投資表現在最近一年以及長期內一直表現強勁，從而創造了對各種信貸品質和期限的基金的需求，其中一些是我們本季度最暢銷的 ETF 基金之一。另類策略的淨流量也略為負值，但整個季度呈現良好趨勢，其中 6 月淨流量為正值。

In terms of what we're seeing in July, market sentiment has continued to trend more favorably, and we are seeing a stronger flow profile for our fixed income funds, though not yet for the equity funds. ETF, as I noted, continued the positive trend with an increase in sales.

就我們七月看到的情況而言，市場情緒持續呈現更積極的趨勢，我們的固定收益基金的資金流動狀況有所增強，但股票基金的資金流動狀況尚未增強。正如我所指出的，ETF 繼續保持積極趨勢，銷售額有所增加。

In Institutional, trends are similar to the second quarter with known redemptions exceeding known wins, with redemptions primarily in quality large cap while known wins span a range of strategies including emerging market debt, and global and domestic REITs. We also anticipate launching a new CLO later in the third quarter targeting approximately $400 million in AUM.

在機構投資者方面，趨勢與第二季度相似，已知贖回額超過已知贏利額，贖回主要集中在優質大盤股，而已知贏利涵蓋一系列策略，包括新興市場債務以及全球和國內房地產投資信託基金 (REIT)。我們也預計在第三季稍後推出新的 CLO，目標資產管理規模約為 4 億美元。

Turning now to our financial results, the sequential improvement in our financial results reflected the impact of the prior quarter seasonal expenses, partially offset by lower average AUM levels. The operating margin was 31.3%, up sequentially from 27.6%, which included the impact of the seasonal expenses.

現在來看看我們的財務業績，財務業績的連續改善反映了上一季季節性支出的影響，但平均 AUM 水準的下降部分抵消了這一影響。營業利潤率為 31.3%，較上一季的 27.6% 有所上升，其中包括季節性費用的影響。

Earnings per share as adjusted of $6.25 increased from $5.73 in the first quarter. Relative to the more comparable prior year period, earnings per share as adjusted, decreased 4% on lower average assets.

調整後每股收益為 6.25 美元，高於第一季的 5.73 美元。與去年同期相比，由於平均資產減少，調整後的每股盈餘下降了 4%。

In terms of our balance sheet and capital during the quarter, we increased our share buyback to $30 billion (sic – see presentation, "$30 million") to repurchase over 175,000 shares, which represented 3% of beginning outstanding shares. We ended the quarter with significant liquidity and modest net debt position, providing ongoing opportunities to invest in the growth of the business and return capital to shareholders.

就本季的資產負債表和資本而言，我們將股票回購金額增加至 300 億美元（原文如此 - 參見介紹，「3,000 萬美元」），以回購超過 175,000 股，佔期初流通股的 3%。本季結束時，我們擁有充足的流動性和適度的淨債務狀況，為投資業務成長和向股東返還資本提供了持續的機會。

So with that, I'll turn the call over to Mike. Mike.

因此，我將把電話轉給麥克。麥克風。

Thank you, George. Good to be with you all this morning.

謝謝你，喬治。很高興今天早上和大家在一起。

Starting with our results on slide 7, assets under management. Our total assets under management on June 30 were $170.7 billion, and represented a broad range of products and asset classes. By product, Institutional is our largest category at 33% of AUM; retail separate accounts, including wealth management at 28%; and US retail mutual funds at 27%. The remaining 12% comprises closed-end funds, global funds, and ETFs.

從投影片 7 上的結果開始，即管理資產。截至 6 月 30 日，我們管理的總資產為 1,707 億美元，涵蓋廣泛的產品和資產類別。按產品劃分，機構是我們最大的類別，佔 AUM 的 33%；零售獨立帳戶（包括財富管理）佔 28%；美國零售共同基金佔 27%。其餘 12% 包括封閉式基金、全球基金和 ETF。

We are also diversified within asset classes in equities between international and domestic and within domestic, well represented among mid, small and large-cap strategies. And fixed income is well diversified across duration, credit quality and geography.

我們的資產類別也多元化，涵蓋國際、國內和國內的股票，在中型、小型和大型股策略中佔有一定地位。固定收益在期限、信用品質和地理方面具有良好的多樣化。

Turning to Slide 8, asset flows. Sales of $5.6 billion compared with $6.2 billion in the first quarter. Reviewing by product, institutional sales of $1.3 billion compared with $1.5 billion last quarter as higher sales of alternative strategies were offset by lower sales of fixed income and global equity. Retail separate account sales of $1.5 billion declined from $1.7 billion in the prior quarter, primarily due to lower smid-cap equity. Open-end fund sales of $2.8 billion compared with $3 billion as higher sales of large cap and international were offset by other strategies.

翻到幻燈片 8，資產流動。銷售額為 56 億美元，而第一季為 62 億美元。以產品來看，機構銷售額為 13 億美元，而上一季為 15 億美元，因為另類策略銷售額的增加被固定收益和全球股票銷售額的下降所抵消。零售獨立帳戶銷售額為 15 億美元，較上一季的 17 億美元下降，主要原因是中型股本減少。開放式基金銷售額為 28 億美元，而去年同期為 30 億美元，因為大盤股和國際基金的銷售額增加被其他策略所抵銷。

Within open-end funds, ETF sales were again strong at $0.4 billion, essentially unchanged from the first quarter. Total net outflows of $3.9 billion compared with $3 billion last quarter and reviewing by product, institutional net outflows of $2.2 billion increased from $1.2 billion with the net outflows driven by quality-oriented large-cap growth. As always, institutional flows will fluctuate depending on the timing of client actions. Retail separate accounts had net outflows of $0.8 billion, largely reflecting the continued impact of the soft closing of a smid-cap core equity model offering late last year.

在開放式基金中，ETF 銷售額再次表現強勁，達到 4 億美元，與第一季基本持平。總淨流出量為 39 億美元，而上一季為 30 億美元，以產品來看，機構淨流出量從 12 億美元增加到 22 億美元，淨流出主要由品質導向的大盤股成長驅動。與往常一樣，機構流量將根據客戶行動的時間而波動。零售獨立帳戶淨流出 8 億美元，主要反映了去年年底中型核心股票模型發行軟關閉的持續影響。

We do offer other smid-cap strategies as well as mid-cap, where we have significant capacity and flows have been positive. In addition, we recently introduced an SMA, leveraging the strong performance of our high conviction large-cap growth capability. For open-end funds, net outflows of $1 billion were at generally the same level as the prior quarter and were driven by equity strategies as fixed income net flows were flat.

我們確實提供其他中型股策略以及中型股策略，在這些策略中我們擁有強大的能力並且流量一直為正。此外，我們最近推出了 SMA，以利用我們高度確信的大盤股成長能力的強勁表現。對於開放式基金而言，淨流出金額為 10 億美元，與上一季基本持平，且受股票策略推動，因為固定收益淨流出持平。

Net flows trended favorably during the quarter with June essentially breakeven. Within open-end funds, ETFs continued to generate a strong double-digit organic growth rate with $0.2 billion of positive net flows.

本季淨流量趨勢良好，六月基本實現損益平衡。在開放式基金中，ETF 持續保持強勁的兩位數有機成長率，淨流入金額達 2 億美元。

Turning to slide 9, investment management fees as adjusted of $171.9 million decreased 4%, reflecting the 4% sequential decline in average assets under management and a lower average fee rate. The average fee rate was 41.3 basis points or 41.1 basis points, excluding performance fees and compared with 41.7 basis points in the first quarter.

轉到投影片 9，調整後的投資管理費為 1.719 億美元，下降 4%，反映出管理的平均資產環比下降 4% 且平均費率下降。平均費率為 41.3 個基點，扣除績效費後為 41.1 個基點，而第一季為 41.7 個基點。

The change in the fee rate from the first quarter largely reflected the mix of asset classes within retail funds given relatively stronger flows of fixed income strategies. Looking ahead, we believe the second quarter normalized average fee rate is reasonable for modeling purposes. As always, the fee rate will be impacted by markets and the mix of assets.

由於固定收益策略的流動相對較強，第一季的費率變化很大程度上反映了零售基金內資產類別的組合。展望未來，我們認為第二季標準化平均費率對於建模目的是合理的。與往常一樣，費率將受到市場和資產組合的影響。

Slide 10 shows the 5-quarter trend in employment expenses. Total employment expenses as adjusted of $97.2 million decreased $12 million or 11% sequentially, reflecting the impact of seasonal expenses in the prior quarter as well as lower variable incentive compensation. Employment expenses were 50.9% of revenues as adjusted, up from the seasonally adjusted prior-quarter level of 50.3% due to lower revenues. Looking ahead, it is reasonable to anticipate employment expenses as a percentage of revenues would trend toward the middle of our 49% to 51% range. As always, it will be variable based on market performance, in particular as well as profits and sales.

幻燈片 10 顯示了就業費用 5 個季度的趨勢。調整後的總僱用費用為 9,720 萬美元，比上一季減少 1,200 萬美元，即 11%，反映了上一季季節性費用以及較低的可變激勵薪酬的影響。經調整後，僱用費用佔收入的 50.9%，由於收入下降，高於季節性調整後的上一季的 50.3%。展望未來，我們可以合理地預期，僱用費用佔收入的比例將趨向於 49% 至 51% 的中間範圍。像往常一樣，它將根據市場表現而變化，特別是利潤和銷售額。

Turning to slide 11, other operating expenses as adjusted were $32 million with a 2% sequential increase due to $0.9 million of annual equity grants to the Board of Directors. Excluding the grants, other operating expenses declined modestly from the prior quarter.

翻到第 11 張投影片，調整後的其他營運費用為 3,200 萬美元，環比成長 2%，原因是每年向董事會授予 90 萬美元的股權。除補助金外，其他營運費用較上一季略有下降。

As a percentage of second-quarter revenues, other operating expenses were 16.7%, up from 15.8%, primarily due to the annual grants. Other operating expenses have remained within a narrow range of $30 million to $32 million per quarter, and we continue to believe that this level is appropriate for modeling purposes.

其他營運費用佔第二季收入的百分比為 16.7%，高於 15.8%，主要歸因於年度撥款。其他營運費用維持在每季 3,000 萬美元至 3,200 萬美元的窄幅範圍內，我們仍然認為這個水準適合於建模目的。

Slide 12 illustrates the trend in earnings. Operating income as adjusted of $59.8 million increased 10% sequentially due to the impact of the prior quarter seasonal expenses. Excluding those items, operating income decreased 7%, primarily due to lower average assets under management. The operating margin as adjusted of 31.3% compared with 27.6% in the first quarter. With respect to nonoperating items, interest and dividend income of $5.3 million included an elevated level of CLO interest income.

投影片 12 展示了收益趨勢。調整後的營業收入為 5,980 萬美元，由於上一季季節性費用的影響，季增 10%。除這些項目外，營業收入下降了 7%，主要原因是平均管理資產減少。調整後的營業利潤率為 31.3%，而第一季為 27.6%。對於非營業項目，530 萬美元的利息和股息收入包括高額的 CLO 利息收入。

Looking ahead to the third quarter, it would be reasonable to anticipate interest and dividend income of approximately $4.3 million. Other income, which largely reflects the earnings from our equity stake in Zevenbergen Capital, increased modestly to $1.2 million. Noncontrolling interests, which reflect minority interest in SGA were higher sequentially by $0.7 million.

展望第三季度，預計利息和股息收入約為 430 萬美元是合理的。其他收入小幅增加至 120 萬美元，主要反映了我們在 Zevenbergen Capital 的股權收益。非控制權益（反映 SGA 的少數股東權益）季增 70 萬美元。

For both other income and noncontrolling interests, the second quarter is a reasonable run rate for modeling. Net income as adjusted of $6.25 per diluted share increased 9% from $5.73 in the first quarter. In terms of GAAP results, net income per share of $6.12 increased from $4.05 per share in the first quarter due to the impact of first-quarter seasonal items as well as $0.50 of fair value adjustments to minority interest, and $0.32 of fair value adjustments to contingent considerations.

對於其他收入和非控股權益，第二季度是建模的合理運行率。調整後每股淨收入為 6.25 美元，較第一季的 5.73 美元成長 9%。就 GAAP 結果而言，每股淨收益為 6.12 美元，高於第一季的每股 4.05 美元，這歸因於第一季季節性項目的影響以及少數股東權益的 0.50 美元公允價值調整和或有對價的 0.32 美元公允價值調整。

Slide 13 shows the trend of our capital liquidity and select balance sheet items. Cash and equivalents at June 30 were $172.2 million. In addition, we had $148.2 million of seed capital investments to support growth initiatives and $126.7 million of other investments, primarily in our CLOs. Working capital was $144 million, up 5% from $137.2 million as cash generated more than offset return of capital.

投影片 13 顯示了我們的資本流動性和選定資產負債表項目的趨勢。截至 6 月 30 日的現金及等價物為 1.722 億美元。此外，我們還有 1.482 億美元的種子資本投資來支持成長計劃，以及 1.267 億美元的其他投資，主要用於我們的 CLO。營運資本為 1.44 億美元，較 1.372 億美元成長 5%，因為產生的現金超過了資本回報。

During the second quarter, we repurchased 175,872 shares of common stock at an average price of $171 per share for a total of $30 million. That is up from $20 million in the first quarter. And for the year-to-date period, our repurchases have contributed to a 3% reduction in our share count.

第二季度，我們以平均每股 171 美元的價格回購了 175,872 股普通股，總計 3,000 萬美元。這一數字高於第一季的 2000 萬美元。今年迄今為止，我們的回購已導致我們的股票數量減少了 3%。

At June 30, gross debt-to-EBITDA was 0.7 times, unchanged from March 31, and we ended the quarter with $62.5 million of net debt or 0.2 times EBITDA. Our adequate levels of liquidity, including an undrawn $175 million revolver and modest leverage provide financial flexibility to continue to invest in the business and return capital.

截至 6 月 30 日，總債務與 EBITDA 比率為 0.7 倍，與 3 月 31 日相比沒有變化，本季末我們的淨債務為 6,250 萬美元，即 EBITDA 的 0.2 倍。我們充足的流動性水平，包括未提取的 1.75 億美元循環信貸額度和適度的槓桿，為我們繼續投資業務和返還資本提供了財務靈活性。

Looking ahead, we would note that anticipated capital uses in the third quarter include the potential new CLO, where our commitment would be about $30 million. Also, as a reminder, we will have the last of our scheduled minority interest purchases with SGA, which should also approximate $30 million.

展望未來，我們注意到第三季預期的資本用途包括潛在的新 CLO，我們對此的承諾約為 3000 萬美元。另外，提醒一下，我們將與 SGA 進行最後一次預定的少數股權收購，收購金額也約為 3,000 萬美元。

With that, let me turn the call back over to George. George.

說完這些，讓我把電話轉回給喬治。喬治。

Thank you, Mike.

謝謝你，麥克。

So we're now going to take your questions.

我們現在來回答你們的問題。

Dee Dee, would you please open up the line?

Dee Dee，你能接電話嗎？

(Operator Instructions) Ben Budish, Barclays.

（操作員指示）巴克萊銀行的 Ben Budish。

Hi, good morning and thank you for taking the questions.

大家好，早安，感謝您回答問題。

Maybe first, Mike, you just talked about $30 million in share repurchases in Q2. It's the highest number, I think, in quite some time. So just curious, how should we be thinking about -- I imagine there's some being opportunistic in that. You also talked about some upcoming uses of capital, CLO, seed capital and the SGA minority interest paydown.

首先，麥克，您剛才談到第二季 3000 萬美元的股票回購。我認為，這是相當長一段時間以來的最高數字。所以只是好奇，我們應該如何思考——我想這其中有一些機會主義。您還談到了一些即將使用的資本、CLO、種子資本和 SGA 少數股權償還。

So how should we think about what else is may be available for repurchases and your kind of current appetite between repurchases and dividends?

那麼，我們應該如何考慮還有什麼可以回購，以及您目前對回購和股利的興趣如何？

Yeah, and I appreciate you highlighting the capital uses.

是的，我很感謝您強調資本用途。

As you know, we take a balanced approach to capital management, and we have leaned in both in this quarter as we particularly saw a compelling valuation in our stock.

如您所知，我們對資本管理採取了平衡的方法，並且由於我們特別看到了股票的引人注目的估值，因此本季度我們傾向於這兩種方法。

And year-to-date, we've now done $50 million of buybacks, which eclipsed the total level of 2024. So I think that brings a payout ratio over 100%. So we'll look at all factors around highest and best use of capital. George alluded to inorganic opportunities potentially coming down, continuing to invest in the business as well as the two specific uses of capital here in the third quarter. So we will balance all of that as we continue to make capital decisions that we think will deliver long-term shareholder value.

今年迄今為止，我們已經回購了 5,000 萬美元，超過了 2024 年的總水準。所以我認為這會使派息率超過 100%。因此，我們將考慮有關最高和最佳資本利用的所有因素。喬治提到無機投資機會可能會減少，將繼續投資於該業務，以及第三季的兩種具體資本用途。因此，我們將平衡所有這些，同時繼續做出我們認為能夠為股東帶來長期價值的資本決策。

I appreciate that.

我很感激。

Maybe along the same lines, George, you mentioned the environment is attractive for a number of things and your pipeline is at its highest level. Curious if you could share any additional color on the sort of the types of assets you're looking at. Has there been any change to the way you're thinking about the strategy? You mentioned private markets specifically.

喬治，也許同樣的道理，你提到環境對很多事物都有吸引力，而且你的管道處於最高水平。好奇您是否可以分享有關您正在查看的資產類型的更多詳細資訊。您對策略的思考方式有什麼改變嗎？您特別提到了私人市場。

Kind of curious how do you think about the ability to compete given so many scaled competitors, where there may be more types of opportunities that make sense? But any additional commentary there would be helpful.

有點好奇，在如此多規模龐大的競爭對手面前，您如何看待競爭能力，其中可能存在更多有意義的機會？但任何額外的評論都會有幫助。

Sure, yeah.

當然，是的。

So again, what I kind of indicated is just the level of activity is at its highest level. So we're spending a lot of time evaluating different opportunities. And as we look at those, they could come along the lines of either attractive product extensions, distribution expansion, or those that will just fundamentally enhance scale and therefore, accretion.

所以，我再次表明，活動水平正處於最高水平。因此我們花費大量時間評估不同的機會。當我們審視這些時，它們可能以有吸引力的產品延伸、分銷擴張或從根本上擴大規模並因此實現增長的形式出現。

So it's been very interesting. I think there's a great environment out there as I think the opportunities between -- I specifically referenced private markets, but in addition to private markets, there are very attractive traditional strategies that are still things that are in demand to investors. I think as we look at it, our view is that there is an opportunity that the -- on the private market side, in particular, that there has been a lot of growth in that area and a lot of that growth in that area has been very narrow in terms of the number of players that have been providing those.

所以這非常有趣。我認為現在的環境很好，因為我認為之間存在著機會——我特別提到了私人市場，但除了私人市場之外，還有一些非常有吸引力的傳統策略，這些策略仍然是投資者所需要的。我認為，當我們審視這個問題時，我們的觀點是，存在一個機會——特別是在私人市場方面，該領域已經取得了很大的增長，而且就提供這些服務的參與者數量而言，該領域的增長非常狹窄。

So we do think like there is in our general business, there is an opportunity set for more differentiated individual boutique types of capabilities to sort of diversify some of the exposures that investors are currently having, which has generally been in a small number of scale players. So again, our goal is really always to offer something that's a little more differentiated and separate rather than just going directly against a scale player with a general type of strategy.

因此，我們確實認為，就像我們的一般業務一樣，存在著一個機會，讓更具差異化的個人精品類型的能力能夠在某種程度上分散投資者目前所面臨的一些風險，而這通常只存在於少數規模企業中。所以，我們的目標始終是提供一些更具差異化和獨立性的產品，而不是只直接與具有一般策略的規模企業競爭。

So generally, we always look at strategies that are a little different, a little differentiated and have a different set of attractions and can really balance out the exposures that people have. So we find it interesting. We do think that the industry continues to contemplate how to converge some of the privates and the publics. And I think on the public side, I just think there's opportunities to enhance and further consolidate on distribution opportunities.

所以一般來說，我們總是會考慮一些略有不同、略有差異、具有不同吸引力的策略，並且能夠真正平衡人們的曝光度。所以我們覺得這很有趣。我們確實認為，該行業仍在思考如何將一些私人和公共部門融合在一起。我認為在公共方面，有機會增強和進一步鞏固分銷機會。

Bill Katz, TD Cowen.

比爾·卡茨（Bill Katz），TD Cowen。

Great, thank you very much for taking the questions this morning. Happy Friday, everybody.

太好了，非常感謝您今天早上回答這些問題。大家星期五快樂。

Just in terms of just thinking through the guidance on the comp side, you guys have been terrific of managing expenses. How much of the sort of comp is just related to the variable revenue backdrop? How much is more structural? So I guess the question is, as we look ahead to the extent that markets continue to normalize, is there any catch-up spending that needs to potentially come back? And if so, where might that be?

僅從公司的指導角度來看，你們在管理費用方面做得非常出色。這種補償有多少僅與可變收入背景相關？結構性因素有多少？所以我想問題是，當我們展望市場繼續正常化的程度時，是否有任何需要恢復的追趕支出？如果是的話，那會是哪裡？

Yeah, I think we did guide specifically on the employment row back to the middle of our range.

是的，我認為我們確實特別引導就業問題回到我們預期的中間水平。

As you know, we've been in that 49% to 51% range in this quarter, where the beginning period assets were impacted by the drawdown in March and April, we ticked up toward the high end of the range.

如您所知，本季度我們的資產負債率一直處於 49% 至 51% 的範圍內，其中期初資產受到 3 月和 4 月提款的影響，我們已回升至該範圍的高端。

I think where ending assets are about 2% above average, we would, all else being equal, just use an appropriate midpoint of that employment range for modeling purposes going forward. And as you know, that range is always impacted by market conditions as well as profits and sales. But I think there is a positive impact on the leverageability of the market. I think other operating, we've been managing that also in a tight range, $30 million to $32 million, which remains appropriate. for modeling purposes.

我認為，當期末資產高於平均水準約 2% 時，在其他條件相同的情況下，我們只需使用該就業範圍的適當中點來進行建模。如您所知，該範圍總是受到市場條件以及利潤和銷售的影響。但我認為這對市場的槓桿作用有正面的影響。我認為其他運營，我們也一直在一個狹窄的範圍內進行管理，即 3000 萬美元到 3200 萬美元，這對於建模目的來說仍然是合適的。

So I don't foresee any catch-up spending. I think we're in a position to continue to deliver incremental margins in that 50% to 55% level as we look forward.

所以我預計不會有任何補繳支出。我認為，展望未來，我們有能力繼續實現 50% 至 55% 的增量利潤率。

Yeah, I mean the one thing I would just add to it because I think embedded in your question was specifics around the extent of which our comp is variable. So as a reminder, our compensation is highly variable, right? Our investment managers' incentives are really profit-based. Our sales base are generally based on sales or performance and even our overarching corporate plans are all highly variable.

是的，我的意思是我只想補充一點，因為我認為你的問題涉及了我們的公司可變程度的具體細節。所以提醒一下，我們的薪酬變化很大，對嗎？我們的投資經理的激勵實際上是基於利潤的。我們的銷售基礎通常是基於銷售額或業績，甚至我們的整體公司計畫都具有很大的可變性。

So we do have base salaries, et cetera.

所以我們確實有基本工資等等。

But in terms of a catch-up, it would really just be through the variable as a percentage of revenue, if that's helpful.

但就追趕而言，它實際上只是透過變數作為收入的百分比，如果這有幫助的話。

Yeah, makes sense.

是的，有道理。

Maybe turning to flows for a moment, just wondering if you could maybe step back and sort of give us what the nets look like in July. It seems like some ins and outs across the different segments. And maybe the broader question is just on the institutional side, how are the conversations going from the client side? Where are you seeing the allocations migrate toward just as we think through equity fixed income or US, non-US, et cetera?

也許暫時轉向流程，只是想知道您是否可以退一步並告訴我們七月份的網路是什麼樣子的。這似乎是不同部分之間的一些細節。也許更廣泛的問題只是在機構方面，客戶端的對話進展如何？當我們考慮股票固定收益或美國、非美國等時，您認為配置向何處遷移？

Yeah, so I mean, on the flows in terms of July, so we gave a little bit of an impression. And again, July is only one month. But going back to the second quarter, obviously, June was a much more pleasurable month than was that of April. And there was really a pausing in terms of certain investor appetite at the end of the first quarter into the beginning and then Liberation Day obviously did create a little bit of uncertainty around where people can invest.

是的，我的意思是，就七月的流量而言，我們給了一點印象。再說了，七月只有一個月。但回顧第二季度，顯然六月比四月更令人愉快。在第一季末和初，某些投資者的興趣確實出現了暫停，而解放日顯然為人們的投資地點帶來了一些不確定性。

So we saw that in our sales. We also saw that in terms of the whole quality versus momentum environment, which for us is more acute because we are slightly over concentrated on the quality side for some of our equity strategies. So I think as we signaled in the scripts, we were basically seeing an improving experience throughout that quarter.

我們在銷售中看到了這一點。我們也看到，就整個品質與動量環境而言，這對我們來說更加尖銳，因為我們的一些股票策略略微過於集中於品質。因此我認為，正如我們在腳本中所暗示的那樣，我們基本上看到了整個季度的體驗不斷改善。

And then particularly as you got to the end of the quarter, fixed income alternatives, et cetera, were actually doing much better and we're modestly breakeven to positive. And then most of that has continued in July. We continue to see strength around the fixed income, which is very helpful.

然後，特別是當你進入本季末時，固定收益替代品等實際上表現得更好，我們適度實現了盈虧平衡。而這種現像在七月份大部分仍持續存在。我們繼續看到固定收益領域的強勁表現，這非常有幫助。

And in particular, the ETFs, again, our business has been a smaller business, but it's been growing at a very good rate. And as we've indicated, we don't have full availability for all of our ETFs everywhere we want it. So that's a big focus, and we're pleased to see some of that growing. In terms -- on the institutional side, again, with the longer time horizons that they have, there's a little less cyclicality in terms of what they're looking for.

尤其是 ETF，我們的業務規模較小，但成長速度非常快。正如我們所指出的，我們無法在任何地方完全提供所有的 ETF。所以這是一個重點，我們很高興看到它正在取得一些進展。從機構角度而言，由於他們的時間跨度較長，他們所尋求的東西的周期性會較小。

Again, we did highlight where we have had outflows has been in more of the quality large-cap side, but we indicated on the inflow side, we do actually see opportunities, and it's been a long time for emerging market debt. I hope it's a trend as well as in some of our global and domestic REITs. Mike, is there other things you'd highlight there?

再次，我們確實強調了資金流出更多的是優質大盤股，但我們指出，在資金流入方面，我們確實看到了機會，而且新興市場債務已經持續了很長時間。我希望這成為一種趨勢，就像我們的一些全球和國內房地產投資信託基金一樣。麥克，還有其他您想強調的嗎？

Yeah, I would just remind you that we do have a CLO that we anticipate offering and issuing in the back half of the year, and there is breadth in the institutional pipeline across managers, including our focused growth sort of momentum managers where we've seen some success there as well.

是的，我只是想提醒你，我們確實有一個 CLO，預計將在今年下半年提供和發行，並且跨管理者的機構管道非常廣泛，包括我們專注於增長的勢頭管理者，我們也看到了一些成功。

Thank you. I'll get back in the queue.

謝謝。我會回到隊列中。

Crispin Love, Piper Sandler.

克里斯賓·洛夫，派珀·桑德勒。

Thank you, good morning. I appreciate taking my questions.

謝謝，早安。我很感謝回答我的問題。

Just first on the -- following up on the M&A outlook, uou mentioned there are conversations, plenty of activity. You're looking at private markets, traditionals. But can you dig into some of the valuations that you're seeing on a big picture way? Does it still remain tough from a valuation standpoint in private markets? And then just within private markets, where are some of the areas that you might be most interested in?

首先，關於併購前景，您提到有很多對話和活動。您正在關注的是私人市場、傳統市場。但是您能否從宏觀角度深入了解您所看到的一些估值？從私人市場的估值角度來看，情況是否仍很艱難？那麼僅在私人市場中，您最感興趣的領域有哪些呢？

Yeah, well, I'm not going to get into specifics.

是的，我不想講得太詳細。

But starting -- in terms of valuations, right, the valuations of the private markets are higher than the valuations of the public markets. And I think there's some divergence within those depending upon the subcategory, whether it's PE, private credit, real assets, and also whether it's really more focused on direct origination versus really more of an allocator. And then within that, in terms of how differentiated a strategy is.

但從估值來看，私人市場的估值高於公開市場的估值。我認為，根據子類別的不同，這些之間存在一些分歧，無論是 PE、私人信貸還是實體資產，以及它是否真的更側重於直接發起，還是實際上更側重於分配。然後在此範圍內，就戰略的差異化程度而言。

So there's -- it's still a very hard area in terms of isolating the specific valuation multiple as it is as well on the traditional side, which continues obviously to be lower than the private side. But again, there's a premium for those things that are more attractive and more stable and less for others. So it's part of the conversation as you sort of think through those types of things. But fundamentally, as we and I assume others look at it, it's really about what is the long-term strategic additive capability that's really going to be important going forward.

因此，在隔離特定估值倍數方面仍然非常困難，因為傳統方面的估值倍數顯然仍然低於私人方面的估值倍數。但同樣，那些更有吸引力、更穩定的東西會溢價，而其他東西的溢價則較低。因此，當您思考這些事情時，它就是談話的一部分。但從根本上來說，正如我們和我認為其他人所認為的那樣，這實際上關乎未來真正重要的長期策略附加能力。

And I think we, like everyone else, do fundamentally believe that there needs to be both the public and the private elements within the well-diversified portfolio.

我認為，我們和其他人一樣，從根本上相信，多元化的投資組合中需要同時包含公共和私人元素。

Great, thank you. That makes sense.

太好了，謝謝。這很有道理。

And then just following up on flows as well. You did mention early in the second quarter was tougher, but June was a brighter picture. On July, can you just frame a little bit how July compares to June versus a little bit earlier in the quarter? Did that momentum continue, pull back a little bit? Just a little bit more color there would be great.

然後也只是跟進流程。您確實提到第二季初的情況比較艱難，但 6 月的情況比較樂觀。關於 7 月份，您能否稍微描述一下 7 月份與 6 月份以及本季早些時候相比的情況？這種勢頭是否持續了，並且稍微回落了一點？再多一點顏色就更好了。

Yeah.

是的。

I mean, the momentum continues. So from June, so again, June was, again, a much better month than obviously April. And then that continued. And I think we even highlighted in some areas, even like our ETFs there's actually -- or fixed income in general, there was not only continued but maybe a slight increase in that. So we're really optimistic as we kind of see that. And then really even on the equity side, while we -- for the quality-oriented equities, that was a driver of outflows, and we do see those. Mike made some references.

我的意思是，這種勢頭仍在繼續。從六月開始，六月顯然比四月好得多。然後這種情況繼續下去。我認為我們甚至在某些領域強調過，甚至像我們的 ETF 一樣，或者整體固定收益，不僅持續成長，而且可能略有增加。因此，當我們看到這一點時，我們感到非常樂觀。實際上，即使在股票方面，對於以品質為導向的股票來說，這也是資金外流的驅動因素，我們確實看到了這一點。麥克做了一些參考。

Now all of our equity is quality-oriented. We do have capabilities that we would characterize as more style agnostic. And then we have another capability that I would characterize as aggressive. And we've actually seen opportunities there. And actually -- and that's some of the newer stuff that we've recently expanded into the retail separate accounts.

現在我們所有的股權都是以品質為導向的。我們確實擁有一些可以稱之為風格無關的能力。我們還有另一種我認為是積極主動的能力。我們確實在那裡看到了機會。實際上 — — 這是我們最近擴展到零售獨立帳戶的一些新內容。

So that's an area that we're hopeful if someone is more of a risk-on appetite that those will become more attractive. So -- and also made reference to on the fixed income side, where, again, we've seen the flows on the open-end funds and the ETFs becoming more attractive, particularly in that June and July time frame, that is an area where we've also very recently expanded our SMA offerings to, again, some investors prefer to use the registered fund vehicles, but there are those that obviously prefer that more in an SMA wrapper, and that is something that's currently actively being offered, and that's very recent actually.

因此，如果有人更願意承擔風險，我們希望這個領域會變得更具吸引力。所以 — — 也提到了固定收益方面，我們再次看到開放式基金和 ETF 的資金流動變得更具吸引力，特別是在 6 月和 7 月期間，這也是我們最近擴大 SMA 產品範圍的領域，一些投資者更喜歡使用註冊基金工具，但也有一些投資者顯然更喜歡 SMA 包裝，這是目前正在積極提供的產品，也是最近才推出的產品。

Great, thank you, I appreciate you taking my questions.

太好了，謝謝，謝謝您回答我的問題。

Michael Cyprys, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的麥可‧賽普里斯 (Michael Cyprys)。

Just wanted to ask about ETFs. I was hoping you might be able to elaborate a bit on the success that you're seeing across your ETF platform, the gross sales flows up year-to-date nicely. Maybe also talk about some of the initiatives that you're thinking about over the next 12 months to drive even accelerated growth across the ETF platform as you look out from here.

只是想問一下有關 ETF 的問題。我希望您能夠詳細說明您在 ETF 平台上看到的成功，今年迄今為止的總銷售額增長良好。也許還可以談談您正在考慮在未來 12 個月內採取的一些舉措，以推動整個 ETF 平台的加速成長。

Maybe you can just remind us how you're incenting the sales force to drive growth on the sale of ETFs and how sort of those sales incentive compensation payments and such compare to mutual funds?

也許您可以提醒我們，您是如何激勵銷售人員推動 ETF 銷售成長的，以及這些銷售激勵薪酬與共同基金相比如何？

Sure.

當然。

So on the ETFs, again, we've been very pleased with what we've seen. As a reminder, our complex is a slightly newer complex. And over the last five or six years, we have been introducing product and building track records because the nature of the products that we offer, again, the majority of which are more actively managed as opposed to passive do need to generate a little bit of a track record. So we're pleased to see that those have now started raising assets, and I think we referred to the growth of about 74% rate and then the consistent gross sales and positive net flows.

因此，就 ETF 而言，我們對所看到的結果感到非常滿意。提醒一下，我們的建築群是一個稍微新一點的建築群。在過去的五、六年裡，我們一直在推出產品並建立業績記錄，因為我們提供的產品的性質，其中大多數是更主動管理的，而不是被動管理的，確實需要產生一點業績記錄。因此，我們很高興地看到，這些公司現在已經開始增加資產，我想我們提到的成長率約為 74%，然後是持續的總銷售額和正的淨流量。

And that has been growing because as the funds get larger and bigger, that really allows us to deal with the other part of the equation, which is access. So we've really been focused on 2 things, one of which is to make sure that we are continuing to expand our offerings, and we've been very active in the product introduction side. And then in the comments, I referenced some other new things that we think are very exciting, mostly on the actively managed side of that range. But we're also on the access, right? Which part of that is getting it to the right level of scale, getting it accepted in certain of the channels or the subchannels.

而這個數字還在持續成長，因為隨著基金規模越來越大，我們才有能力處理等式的另一部分，也就是訪問權。因此，我們真正關注的是兩件事，其中之一就是確保我們繼續擴大我們的產品範圍，並且我們在產品介紹方面非常活躍。然後在評論中，我提到了一些我們認為非常令人興奮的其他新事物，主要是在該範圍的主動管理方面。但我們也處於存取權限中，對嗎？其中哪一部分是讓它達到正確的規模水平，讓它在某些管道或子管道中被接受。

So all of those foundational steps continue, and we're happy to see that the net result so far, early innings has actually been quite positive. In terms of the wholesaler and the sales force, right? So the sales force, their obligation is really to work with the financial adviser with their vehicle of choice. And it's just -- the market has really moved to the point where financial advisers, some will have a preference for different structures, whether it be the retail separate account, the ETF or the fund.

因此，所有這些基礎步驟仍在繼續，我們很高興地看到，到目前為止的最終結果，早期階段實際上是相當積極的。就批發商和銷售人員而言，對嗎？因此，銷售人員的義務實際上是與財務顧問合作，選擇他們喜歡的車輛。市場確實已經發展到這樣的程度：有些財務顧問會偏好不同的結構，無論是零售獨立帳戶、ETF 或基金。

So in the conversations and the activities, the wholesalers are really determining which of those are the right fit. And there are many financial advisers who are entirely focused on ETFs as opposed to funds. So as we structure our conversation, as we always do, we want to structure it to incent the right behavior, have that be aligned with the contribution that it makes to the company. And then also, just as importantly, trying to have it focus on the best efforts to maintain and defend assets as well as just grow them.

因此，在對話和活動中，批發商實際上在確定哪些是最合適的。有許多財務顧問完全專注於 ETF，而不是基金。因此，當我們像往常一樣組織我們的對話時，我們希望組織它來激勵正確的行為，並使其與對公司的貢獻保持一致。然後，同樣重要的是，努力集中精力盡最大努力維護和保護資產，並使其成長。

Great.

偉大的。

And then just a follow-up question on the appetite for inorganic activity, just curious how you're thinking about prioritizing private market opportunities for properties there versus more scale-driven on the traditional side and otherwise. And broadly, if you could talk about some of the steps you would look to take to navigate complexity of potentially bringing in illiquids to a platform that historically has operated in liquid public markets?

然後是關於無機活動興趣的後續問題，只是好奇您如何考慮優先考慮那裡的私人市場機會，而不是傳統方面的規模驅動。總的來說，您能否談談您希望採取哪些措施來解決將非流動性資產引入歷史上在流動性公開市場中運營的平台的複雜性？

Yeah.

是的。

So in terms of the different types of opportunities, all of them have different attractive characteristics. And then I also referenced that in terms of structures, and again, our model is a little more flexible in terms of how we partner in terms of minority, majority JV, wholly owned, et cetera, right? So each of them, as we evaluate things like that, we look at them individually and the nature of their contribution and then relative to the nature of the other.

因此，就不同類型的機會而言，它們都具有不同的吸引人的特徵。然後我也提到了結構方面，我們的模式在少數股權、多數股權合資、全資控股等方面的合作方式上更加靈活，對嗎？因此，當我們評估這樣的事物時，我們會分別看待它們，並了解它們貢獻的性質，然後再比較彼此的性質。

So again, we will only do an inorganic transaction if we do believe fundamentally, it is a way to create a good use of capital to create long-term shareholder value. In terms of the second part of your question about integrating into a platform that's more traditionally public. Again, I think that goes back to the way that you're partnering because we basically partner with firms and work with firms or have that expertise. But in many ways, some of the private markets are being sold by wholesalers that are selling the public markets.

因此，我們再次強調，只有當我們從根本上相信無機交易是一種充分利用資本來創造長期股東價值的方式時，我們才會進行無機交易。關於您問題的第二部分，關於融入更傳統的公共平台。再次，我認為這又回到了你們的合作方式上，因為我們基本上與公司合作並與公司合作或擁有專業知識。但在很多方面，一些私人市場的產品是由在公共市場銷售的批發商銷售的。

So in many ways, we always say that our sales force is really dealing with 80% of the book of the financial adviser, and we just need the other product to address the other 20% of the need. And again, we do have a view that on the private market side, investors need to have more choices than what is currently available. And that's really our goal is to sort of find that and then to leverage the infrastructure we have on the distribution side as well in many ways on the operational side to bring that to market.

因此，在很多方面，我們總是說我們的銷售人員實際上處理了財務顧問 80% 的業務，而我們只需要其他產品來滿足其餘 20% 的需求。而且，我們確實認為，在私人市場方面，投資人需要擁有比目前更多的選擇。我們的真正目標是找到這一點，然後利用我們在分銷方面以及營運方面的多種基礎設施將其推向市場。

Is there a view that private market opportunities might fit better with a JV or partnership as opposed to more wholly owned, the path you've taken oftentimes in the past. Just curious how you think about that. And many others have tried in the private markets in the traditional space and maybe hasn't lived up to expectations. So just curious, any lessons you take away, how that informs your approach as you look forward as you look to optimize and maximize the opportunity set?

您是否認為私人市場機會可能更適合合資或合作方式，而不是全資擁有（您過去經常採取的方式）。只是好奇你對此有何看法。還有許多其他人嘗試過在傳統領域的私人市場，但可能沒有達到預期。所以只是好奇，您學到了什麼教訓，這些教訓如何引導您展望未來，優化和最大化機會集？

Oh, well -- yeah, no, other people's experiences absolutely do influence how we would look at things as they influence others because there are differences between the publics and the private markets. So I think in how you approach them, you really do have to sort of think through the nuances of that differences. And we have not done a transaction in a period of time. And that in part, I would say that, that's because as we kind of think through, particularly on the private market piece, doing it in the way that makes sense, that is correct.

哦，嗯——是的，不，其他人的經歷絕對會影響我們如何看待事物，因為它們也會影響其他人，因為公共市場和私人市場之間存在差異。所以我認為，在處理這些問題時，你確實必須仔細考慮這些差異的細微差別。而且我們已經有一段時間沒有進行交易了。在某種程度上，我想說，這是因為當我們仔細思考時，特別是在私人市場部分，以合理的方式去做，這是正確的。

But no, we do absolutely think that in some of the private market capabilities, some of the structures might be different than they might be, say, on a traditional just because you want to have the right alignment of interests and then the right fit between the two, at least that's our perspective on those.

但不，我們確實認為，在某些私人市場能力中，某些結構可能與傳統結構不同，只是因為你想讓利益正確一致，然後讓兩者正確契合，至少這是我們對此的看法。

This concludes our question-and-answer session. I would now like to turn the conference back over to Mr. Aylward.

我們的問答環節到此結束。現在我想將會議交還給艾爾沃德先生。

Well, I just want to thank everyone today for joining us. And absolutely, as we always do, please, if you have any other questions, reach out.

好吧，我只想感謝今天大家的參加。當然，正如我們一貫的做法一樣，如果您有任何其他問題，請與我們聯絡。

Thank you.

謝謝。

That concludes today's call.

今天的電話會議到此結束。

Thank you for participating and you may now disconnect.

感謝您的參與，您現在可以斷開連接。