Telefonica Brasil SA (VIV) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Vivo's fourth quarter 2024 earnings call. This conference is being recorded, and the replay will be available at the company's website at ri.telefonica.com.br. The presentation will also be available for download. This call is also available in Portuguese. (Operator Instructions) (spoken in foreign language) (Operator Instructions)

女士們、先生們，早安，歡迎參加 Vivo 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。這次會議正在錄製中，重播將在公司網站 ri.telefonica.com.br 上提供。該簡報也可供下載。此通話還提供葡萄牙語版本。（操作員指示）（以外語講）（操作員指示）

Before proceeding, we would like to clarify that any statements that may be made during this conference call regarding the company's business prospects, operational and financial projections and goals are the beliefs and assumptions of Vivo's Executive Board and the current information available to the company.

在繼續之前，我們想澄清一下，本次電話會議中有關公司業務前景、營運和財務預測及目標的任何聲明均為 Vivo 執行委員會的信念和假設以及公司目前掌握的資訊。

These statements may involve risks and uncertainties as they relate to future events and, therefore, depends on circumstances that may or may not occur. Investors should be aware of events related to the macroeconomic scenario, the industry and other factors that could cause results to differ materially from those expressed in respective forward-looking statements.

這些聲明可能涉及與未來事件相關的風險和不確定性，因此取決於可能發生或可能不會發生的情況。投資者應注意與宏觀經濟情景、行業和其他因素相關的事件，這些事件可能會導致結果與各自前瞻性陳述中表達的結果有重大差異。

Present at this conference, we have Mr. Christian Gebara, CEO of the company; Mr. David Melcon, CFO and Investor Relations Officer; and Mr. Joao Pedro Soares Carneiro, IR Director.

出席本次會議的有該公司執行長 Christian Gebara 先生；財務長兼投資者關係長 David Melcon 先生；以及投資者關係總監 Joao Pedro Soares Carneiro 先生。

Now I will turn the conference over to Mr. Joao Pedro Soares Carneiro, Investor Relations Director of Vivo. Mr. Carneiro, you may begin your conference.

現在我將會議交給vivo投資者關係總監Joao Pedro Soares Carneiro先生主持。卡內羅先生，您可以開始您的會議了。

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Vivo's fourth quarter and full year 2024 earnings call. Christian Gebara, our CEO, will walk us through Vivo's performance in connectivity and digital services as well as present our ESG accomplishments for the year. Then David Melcon, our CFO, will give more details on cost and CapEx control, free cash flow generation, shareholder remuneration and, lastly, an update on our fixed voice migration process.

大家早安，歡迎參加 Vivo 2024 年第四季及全年財報電話會議。我們的執行長 Christian Gebara 將向我們介紹 Vivo 在連接和數位服務方面的表現，並介紹我們今年的 ESG 成就。然後，我們的財務長 David Melcon 將詳細介紹成本和資本支出控制、自由現金流產生、股東薪酬以及最後我們的固定語音遷移流程的最新情況。

With that, let me turn the call over to Christian.

說完這些，讓我把電話轉給克里斯蒂安。

Thank you, Joao. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. I'm very pleased to present the results for 2024.

謝謝你，若昂。大家早安，感謝大家今天加入我們。我很高興展示 2024 年的成果。

We finished the quarter and the full year with an excellent performance, driven by our best-in-class products and services that allow us to continue to increase the lifetime value of our customers, with churn at historical lows.

我們以出色的業績結束了本季和全年，這得益於我們一流的產品和服務，使我們能夠繼續提高客戶的終身價值，客戶流失率處於歷史最低水平。

We reached 66.5 million postpaid access in 2024 with a growth of 7.6%, reinforcing our capacity for a strong mobile performance in 2025. In fiber, the number of homes connected grew 12.7% this quarter, totaling 7 million access. In total, Vivo reached the largest customer base in our history with over 116 million access.

到 2024 年，我們的後付費用戶數量將達到 6,650 萬，成長率為 7.6%，這增強了我們在 2025 年實現強勁行動業績的能力。在光纖方面，本季接入的家庭數量增加了 12.7%，接入總數達到 700 萬戶。整體而言，Vivo 擁有超過 1.16 億用戶，創造了史上最大的客戶群。

Total revenues increased by 7.7% in the fourth quarter with mobile still being the main driver, growing 7%, while fixed revenues grew 8%, the best performance that we have ever registered for this segment.

第四季總收入成長了 7.7%，其中行動業務仍然是主要推動力，成長了 7%，而固定收入成長了 8%，這是我們在這一領域取得的最佳業績。

Our top line expansion was fully reflected through to EBITDA that increased by 7.8% year-over-year. We invested BRL9.2 billion in 2024, decreasing our capital intensity and, with that, registered BRL13.7 billion in operating cash flow, growing 11% year-over-year, representing almost 25% of our total revenues.

我們的營業收入成長完全體現在 EBITDA 上，EBITDA 年成長 7.8%。我們在 2024 年投資了 92 億雷亞爾，降低了資本密集度，同時實現了 137 億雷亞爾的營運現金流，年增 11%，占我們總收入的近 25%。

In 2024, we paid over BRL5.8 billion to our shareholders as remuneration grew by an impressive 22% year-over-year that was equivalent of -- to 105% of the net income generated in the period, thus meeting our guidance that we hereby reinforce for the next couple of years.

2024 年，我們向股東支付了超過 58 億巴西雷亞爾的薪酬，與上年相比，薪酬增長了 22%，相當於同期淨收入的 105%，從而滿足了我們在此強調的未來幾年的指導方針。

On slide 4, we show how our performance has been positively impacted by the shift that has been occurring in our revenue mix with emphasis on postpaid, fiber and B2B digital services. The mobile segment ended the year representing 65% of our total revenues and still benefiting from our ever-improving customer base with strong prepaid to postpaid migration figures.

在投影片 4 中，我們展示了我們的業績如何受到收入結構轉變的正面影響，重點是後付費、光纖和 B2B 數位服務。截至年底，行動業務占我們總收入的 65%，並且仍然受益於我們不斷擴大的客戶群以及強勁的預付費到後付費遷移數據。

As such, postpaid revenues grew 9.1% in the fourth quarter, representing 84% of our total mobile service revenues. In addition to that, fixed revenues grew 8%, the highest annual growth ever, driven not only by the double-digit growth of 12.4% in FTTH, but also by the 21.1% expansion of data, ICT and digital services, as the take-up of digital solutions by our B2B customers accelerates.

因此，第四季後付費收入成長了 9.1%，占我們行動服務總收入的 84%。此外，固定收入成長了 8%，創下有史以來的最高年增長率，這不僅得益於 FTTH 12.4% 的兩位數增長，還得益於數據、ICT 和數位服務 21.1% 的擴張，因為我們的 B2B 客戶對數位解決方案的採用正在加速。

I would also like to highlight the replicable market position of our digital ecosystem. Our new businesses, combining B2B and B2C services, now represent more than 10% of our total revenues. With our one-stop shop proposition, we're moving further and further from being just a connectivity provider, while enhancing the overall lifetime value of our customers.

我還想強調一下我們的數位生態系統可複製的市場地位。我們的新業務結合了 B2B 和 B2C 服務，目前占我們總收入的 10% 以上。透過我們的一站式服務方案，我們逐漸不再只是一家連結供應商，同時也提高了客戶的整體終身價值。

On the next slide, we highlight our main mobile trends. Our mobile base grew 3.3% year-over-year, reaching over 1-0-2, 102 million access. Postpaid has been the main driver with a high single-digit growth of 7.6%, reaching over 66 million users. In fact, the number of postpaid quarterly net additions, including M2M and dongles was once again very high, nearing 900,000.

在下一張投影片中，我們將重點放在主要的移動趨勢。我們的行動用戶基數年增 3.3%，達到 1.02 億，訪問量達 1.02 億。後付費是主要推動力，實現了 7.6% 的高個位數成長，用戶數量超過 6,600 萬。事實上，包括 M2M 和加密狗在內的後付費季度淨增數量再次非常高，接近 90 萬。

We are not only attracting more customers, but also increasingly retaining the existing one, being able to maintain postpaid churn below the 1% per month level for another year. This feat, coupled with expanding ARPUs, provides a very robust combination to deliver strong results in any scenario. As such, our leadership remains intact, supporting by our inspiring brand, our best-in-class infrastructure, a broad, unique portfolio and powerful channels.

我們不僅吸引了更多的客戶，而且還持續留住現有客戶，並能夠在未來一年內將後付費客戶流失率維持在每月 1% 以下。這一業績與不斷擴大的 ARPU 相結合，形成了一個非常強大的組合，可以在任何情況下帶來強勁的業績。因此，我們的領導地位仍然穩固，並得到我們鼓舞人心的品牌、一流的基礎設施、廣泛而獨特的產品組合和強大管道的支持。

Now moving to slide 6, where we can see more about our fiber operation. We reached our 2024 goal of delivering 29 million home passed with FTTH, which grew 11.2% year-over-year, while our homes connected expanded 12.7%, reaching 7 million connections.

現在轉到幻燈片 6，我們可以在其中了解有關光纖操作的更多資訊。我們實現了 2024 年的目標，為 2,900 萬戶家庭提供 FTTH，年增 11.2%，而我們的家庭連結數成長了 12.7%，達到 700 萬個連結。

We have been accelerating the number of quarterly net additions, registering 220,000 new adds in fourth quarter 2024, 20% higher than the expansion in the same period of 2023. At the same time, we reached our lowest FTTH churn level ever at 1.49% per month, powered mainly by Vivo Total's superior value proposition. By the end of 2024, 2.4 million FTTH access had Vivo Total, up 85% year-over-year, with revenues from those plans growing more than 90% versus 2023.

我們一直在加速季度淨增人數，2024 年第四季新增 22 萬人，比 2023 年同期的成長高出 20%。同時，我們的 FTTH 流失率達到了歷史最低水平，為每月 1.49%，這主要得益於 Vivo Total 卓越的價值主張。到 2024 年底，Vivo Total 的 FTTH 接入用戶數將達到 240 萬，年成長 85%，該計畫的營收較 2023 年成長 90% 以上。

We have a significant portion of new fiber savings in our stores being convergent. We foresee fiber's performance improving even further going forward. We continue to see multiple opportunities to generate considerable returns by investing in fiber. Thus, going forward, we will maintain a selective expansion of our footprint, while we step up the penetration of connections over our network.

我們商店中新光纖節省的很大一部分都是融合的。我們預見未來光纖的性能將進一步提高。我們繼續看到透過投資光纖獲得可觀回報的多個機會。因此，展望未來，我們將繼續有選擇地擴大我們的覆蓋範圍，同時加強我們網路連接的滲透。

On slide 7, we show you more details on the B2C revenues. We closed the year with 57.2 million individuals as Vivo customers, over 1/4 of Brazil's population. On average, our customers are generating a monthly net revenues of [BRL62.3], a number that has an evident improvement trend going forward, as we are being successful in capturing additional share of wallet and increasing lifetime value, which translates into customer adherence to the Vivo's brand.

在第 7 張投影片上，我們向您展示了有關 B2C 收入的更多詳細資訊。截止到今年底，Vivo 的用戶總數已達 5,720 萬，佔巴西總人口的四分之一以上。平均而言，我們的客戶每月創造的淨收入為 [BRL62.3]，這一數字在未來呈現明顯的改善趨勢，因為我們成功地獲得了額外的錢包份額並提高了終身價值，這轉化為客戶對 Vivo 品牌的忠誠度。

B2C represents 76% of Vivo's top line and grew 7.2% in 2024, with our steady telco expansion combined with a 23.7% growth in new businesses.

B2C 佔 Vivo 營業收入的 76%，到 ​​2024 年將成長 7.2%，同時我們的電信業務穩定擴張，新業務成長 23.7%。

Here, I would like to highlight the strong performance seen in the sale of video and music OTTs, with revenue already surpassing BRL700 million a year, growing close to 30%. We reached 3 million OTT subscriptions by year-end, boosted by our proprietary video platform, Vivo Play, with access soaring 84% in the period.

在這裡，我想強調一下影片和音樂 OTT 銷售的強勁表現，年收入已超過 7 億雷亞爾，成長近 30%。到年底，我們的 OTT 訂閱用戶數已達 300 萬，這得益於我們專有的視訊平台 Vivo Play，在此期間，訪問量飆升了 84%。

Also mindful of how important digital safety is to our Brazilians, we recently launched Vivo Modo Seguro platform, including service and smartphone insurance, blocking of spam calls and tips of how to identify frauds and scams. With Modo Seguro, we want to ensure that our customers not only have the best connection, but also secured experience in the digital environment.

我們也意識到數位安全對巴西人的重要性，最近推出了 Vivo Modo Seguro 平台，其中包括服務和智慧型手機保險、阻止垃圾電話以及如何識別詐欺和詐騙的提示。透過 Modo Seguro，我們希望確保我們的客戶不僅擁有最佳連接，而且還能在數位環境中獲得安全的體驗。

On the B2B side, our revenue growth was even higher, up 8.5% year-over-year in 2024, led by the outstanding performance of digital B2B that expanded over 20% in the same period. Among the vast number of digital B2B solutions that we provide to our clients, the main driver of this year's results were cloud solutions with revenues getting close to BRL2 billion, up 32.6% year-over-year.

在B2B方面，我們的營收成長更高，到2024年將年增8.5％，其中數位B2B表現突出，同期成長超過20％。在我們為客戶提供的眾多數位 B2B 解決方案中，今年業績的主要推動力是雲端解決方案，其營收接近 20 億巴西雷亞爾，年增 32.6%。

This derives from our broad portfolio of providers, as well services of hyperscale such as Microsoft, Amazon and, most recently, Google benefited by the acquisition of IPNET, the main integrator of Google solutions in Brazil. The company was consolidated in our results in October 2024, contributing with BRL64 million of revenues in the quarter.

這源自於我們廣泛的供應商組合，以及微軟、亞馬遜等超大規模服務，最近，Google因收購巴西谷歌解決方案的主要整合商 IPNET 而受益。該公司於 2024 年 10 月納入我們的業績，本季貢獻了 6,400 萬巴西雷亞爾的營收。

This showcases not only our ability to pick the right companies to join our ecosystem but also strengthen Vivo as a key cloud solution provider in the B2B market.

這不僅展示了我們選擇合適公司加入我們生態系統的能力，也增強了 Vivo 作為 B2B 市場主要雲端解決方案供應商的地位。

Moving on to our ESG actions on slide 9. First, I would like to announce that we joined the Dow Jones Best-in-Class World Index, which is considered the most important sustainability index in the world. We are the only Brazilian telco in the list, being leaders in the Americas, and having the sixth best telco sector performance globally, reaching a score of 88 points in S&P Global Corporate Sustainability Assessment.

繼續第 9 張投影片介紹我們的 ESG 行動。首先，我想宣布我們加入了道瓊全球最佳指數，該指數被認為是世界上最重要的永續發展指數。我們是榜單上唯一的巴西電信公司，在美洲處於領先地位，在全球電信行業表現排名第六，在標準普爾全球企業永續性評估中獲得了 88 分。

In our recycling program, Vivo Recicle, we achieved a new record of 37 tons collected, 3x more than last year's amount. The social side, from Fundacao Telefonica Vivo, that completed 25 years of activity in Brazil invested BRL50 million in 2024 and was able to benefit 2 million people across the country.

在我們的回收計畫 Vivo Recicle 中，我們創造了收集量 37 噸的新紀錄，比去年多了 3 倍。在社會層面，Telefonica Vivo 基金會已在巴西開展了 25 年的活動，2024 年該基金會投資了 5,000 萬雷亞爾，使全國 200 萬人受益。

Also in Vivo, half of the internship and training program positions were allocated to Black talent, which reinforces our diversity pillar, and it stresses its importance of the company's growth.

此外，在 Vivo，一半的實習和培訓計畫職位都分配給了黑人人才，這強化了我們的多元化支柱，並強調了其對公司發展的重要性。

With that, I will pass the word to David, who will comment on our financial performance. Thank you.

說完這些，我會把這個消息傳達給大衛，他會對我們的財務表現進行評論。謝謝。

Thank you, Christian, and good morning, everyone. On slide 10, we detail our cost evolution. Total OpEx grew 7.7% year-over-year, mainly driven by the 11% increase in cost of services and goods sold that expanded due to the continued double-digit growth in revenues from digital services and sale of smartphones and electronics. These services require no CapEx and contribute to extending the lifetime value of our customers.

謝謝你，克里斯蒂安，大家早安。在第 10 張投影片上，我們詳細介紹了成本的演變。總營運支出較去年同期成長 7.7%，主要由於數位服務收入以及智慧型手機和電子產品銷售收入持續保持兩位數成長，導致服務和銷售商品成本增加 11%。這些服務不需要資本支出，並有助於延長顧客的終身價值。

Our cost of operations that represent 64% of our OpEx grew 5.7% year-over-year, led by the cost related to our infrastructure expansion and a strong commercial activity in the period. These factors were partially offset by the reversal of provisions related to the migration from concession to an authorization that positively impacted EBITDA in the amount of BRL386 million in the quarter.

我們的營運成本佔營運支出的 64%，年成長 5.7%，主要原因是與基礎設施擴張相關的成本以及本期間強勁的商業活動。這些因素被從特許經營轉為授權的相關撥備的逆轉部分抵消，這對本季度的 EBITDA 產生了 3.86 億巴西雷亞爾的積極影響。

On a year-over-year basis, this is compensated by the effect of BRL292 million related to the reversion of provision for fines connected to the renegotiation of leasing contracts with tower cos that positively impacted previous year results.

與去年同期相比，這一損失被 2.92 億巴西雷亞爾的影響所抵消，該影響與與塔公司重新談判租賃合約相關的罰款準備金的複原有關，這對去年的業績產生了積極影響。

All in, we maintained our EBITDA margin at a high level of 42.5% in the last quarter last year, in line with the previous year, with EBITDA expanding 7.8% year-over-year.

總體而言，去年最後一個季度我們的 EBITDA 利潤率維持在 42.5% 的高水平，與去年持平，EBITDA 年成長 7.8%。

Moving to the next slide. We closed the year with CapEx at BRL9.2 billion, just 2.3% above previous year, reducing our CapEx over sales to 16.4%, with investment dedicated mainly to the expansion of our 5G and fiber operations.

移至下一張投影片。我們本財年的資本支出為 92 億巴西雷亞爾，僅比上年增長 2.3%，資本支出與銷售額之比降至 16.4%，投資主要用於擴大我們的 5G 和光纖業務。

By keeping CapEx stable and constantly increasing our revenues, we continue reducing our CapEx intensity in almost 1 percentage point. We also maintained a positive evolution of our operating cash flow that grew 11% year-over-year with a margin of 24.6%. After leases, operating cash flow grew even more, 13.4%, with over BRL8.6 billion generated in the year.

透過維持資本支出穩定並持續增加收入，我們持續將資本支出強度降低近 1 個百分點。我們的經營現金流也維持了正面成長，年增 11%，利潤率為 24.6%。租賃之後，經營現金流成長更多，達到 13.4%，全年產生現金超過 86 億巴西雷亞爾。

On slide 12, we see our net income close in 2024 at BRL5.5 billion, with a growth of 10.3% versus the previous year, resulting in BRL3.38 of earnings per share, up 11% in the period. The low financial debt protects the company in high interest rate scenarios. We closed the year with a net cash position of BRL1.4 billion and including leases and net debt of only 0.6x EBITDA.

在第 12 張投影片中，我們預計 2024 年我們的淨收入將達到 55 億巴西雷亞爾，比上一年增長 10.3%，每股收益為 3.38 巴西雷亞爾，同期增長 11%。較低的財務債務可以在高利率情況下保護公司。我們今年的淨現金狀況為 14 億巴西雷亞爾，其中包括僅為 0.6 倍 EBITDA 的租賃和淨債務。

In 2024, we generated BRL8.2 billion in free cash flow, translating into a free cash flow yield of 10.8%. This robust result showcased how Vivo continues to invest in high return projects, while also having a space for attractive shareholder remuneration.

2024 年，我們產生了 82 億巴西雷亞爾的自由現金流，相當於 10.8% 的自由現金流收益率。這一強勁業績顯示 Vivo 如何持續投資高回報項目，同時也擁有吸引股東回報的空間。

So let's talk about shareholder remuneration on slide 13. In 2024, we paid out over BRL5.8 billion combining capital reduction, interest on capital and share buybacks. This represents a growth of 22% versus the previous year, up more than twice the growth rate of our net income. As a result, we successfully met the guidance for the year 2024 by having a payout of 105% over net income.

那麼讓我們在第 13 張投影片上討論一下股東薪酬。2024 年，我們透過減資、資本利息和股票回購支付了超過 58 億巴西雷亞爾。這比前一年增長了 22%，是淨收入增長率的兩倍多。結果，我們成功實現了 2024 年的預期目標，股利金額達到淨收入的 105%。

I would also like to reaffirm the guidance for the next year, 2025 and 2026, stating that we will have shareholder distribution of at least 100% of the net income that we generate each year.

我還想重申明年（2025 年和 2026 年）的指導方針，指出我們將向股東分配每年產生的淨收入的至少 100%。

As such, we already started 2025 with around BRL4.5 billion committed to this year's shareholder remuneration. And to do more, we just renewed our share buyback program that will be in force until February 2026 with an investment capacity up to BRL1.75 billion.

因此，我們已經在 2025 年開始承諾向今年的股東支付約 45 億巴西雷亞爾的報酬。為了做更多的事情，我們剛剛更新了股票回購計劃，該計劃將有效期至 2026 年 2 月，投資能力高達 17.5 億巴西雷亞爾。

To conclude on this topic, I would like to comment that last month, our Board of Directors approved a reverse stock split operation followed by a forward stock split. Our main goal with that initiative is to facilitate the trading of our shares and improve the liquidity in the Brazilian stock exchange. We will keep you posted on the next steps regarding this operation.

最後，我想評論一下，上個月，我們的董事會批准了反向股票分割操作，隨後又批准了正向股票分割。我們採取這項措施的主要目標是促進我們股票的交易並提高巴西證券交易所的流動性。我們將隨時向您通報此行動的後續進展。

Finally, we would like to give you more information regarding the fixed voice migration process, a game changer in both Vivo's history and the telecommunication sector in Brazil.

最後，我們想向您提供有關固定語音遷移過程的更多信息，這對 Vivo 的歷史以及巴西的電信行業來說都是一個重大的改變。

By the end of 2024, we signed a self-composition agreement with the regulatory bodies to migrate our fixed voice model from concession to authorization. The process is in the last step. And in the coming months, we will formally conclude, at which point we will start to capture the benefits.

到2024年底，我們與監管機構簽署了一項自我組合協議，將我們的固定語音模式從特許經營遷移到授權。該過程已進入最後一步。在接下來的幾個月裡，我們將正式結束這項工作，屆時我們將開始獲得收益。

With the conclusion of the process, we will execute projects related to the expansion of our 4G coverage and backhaul, with a net present value of BRL4.5 billion considering both OpEx and CapEx. This will take quality connectivity to many underserved regions in Brazil, helping to reduce the technological gap that exists in our country.

隨著流程的結束，我們將執行與擴大我們的 4G 覆蓋範圍和回程相關的項目，考慮到營運支出和資本支出，淨現值為 45 億巴西雷亞爾。這將為巴西許多服務不足的地區帶來優質的連接，有助於縮小我國存在的技術差距。

Having concluded all administrative and judicial proceedings related to the concession, we released provisions amounting to BRL792 million in the fourth quarter 2024, while also mitigating risk related to over BRL5 billion in regulatory contingencies.

在完成與特許權相關的所有行政和司法程序後，我們於 2024 年第四季度釋放了總額為 7.92 億巴西雷亞爾的撥備，同時也降低了與超過 50 億巴西雷亞爾的監管意外事件相關的風險。

This groundbreaking process is not only beneficial for Vivo, but also for our clients and society as a whole. More than 1 million customers that we are currently serving with copper could migrate to cutting-edge technologies such as fiber or mobile, having access to better products and services.

這個突破性進程不僅對 Vivo 有利，而且對我們的客戶和整個社會也有利。我們目前使用銅線服務的 100 多萬客戶可以遷移到光纖或移動等尖端技術，從而獲得更好的產品和服務。

As we migrate these users, we will accelerate our network transformation in the state of Sao Paulo, freeing up around half of the 1,900 own or rented properties that we used to house our copper network, unlocking savings with energy, rent, property taxes, maintenance, security, among others. These movements will also enable us to extract and sell around 120,000 tons of copper and cable cutting, simplifying our network.

隨著這些用戶的遷移，我們將加速聖保羅州的網路轉型，釋放我們用於安置銅線網路的 1,900 處自有或租賃房產中的約一半，從而節省能源、租金、房產稅、維護、保全等方面的費用。這些舉措還將使我們能夠開採和銷售約 12 萬噸銅和電纜切割，從而簡化我們的網路。

In 2024, we generated BRL1.3 billion in revenues linked to copper-based services. Due to the high cost and CapEx associated with the provision of these services, the free cash flow coming from these revenues was negative, thus diluting the overall profitability of our business.

2024 年，我們與銅基服務相關的收入為 13 億巴西雷亞爾。由於提供這些服務的成本和資本支出很高，來自這些收入的自由現金流為負，稀釋了我們業務的整體獲利能力。

Going forward, we estimate much better returns, and we'll keep you informed about the effects and the benefits captured along the way. This is a huge step in Vivo's history. And now more than ever, we are fully able to deliver best-in-class fixed services across the whole country.

展望未來，我們預期回報會更好，並且我們會隨時向您通報此過程中產生的影響和獲得的好處。這是 Vivo 發展史上的一大步。現在，我們比以往任何時候都更有能力在全國範圍內提供一流的固定服務。

Thank you. And now we can move to the Q&A.

謝謝。現在我們可以進入問答環節。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Leonardo Olmos, UBS.

瑞銀的萊昂納多·奧爾莫斯。

First of all, thank you for the information on the benefits of the concession migration. The slide and the written information is quite helpful to us. Still, I'm going to focus my question on dividends for 2025. If you could discuss the perspective, so all the buildup of what could be the distributions in 2025, if you expect an increase versus 2024, because it already had a great increase versus 2023.

首先，感謝您提供有關優惠移民福利的資訊。幻燈片和書面資訊對我們很有幫助。不過，我的問題還是集中在 2025 年的股利。如果您可以討論這個觀點，那麼 2025 年的分佈情況可能會有所增加，因為與 2023 年相比，它已經有了很大的增長。

We also saw that the benefits of the concession in terms of impacting net income, even though it's not cash, they stayed in 2024, right? So maybe, the benefits of the concession will not be converted into dividends 2025 or just like, I don't know, if you could comment the construction of how you see dividends this year would be very helpful.

我們也看到，優惠政策對淨收入的影響是有好處的，儘管不是現金，但優惠政策仍然保留到了 2024 年，對嗎？因此，也許優惠政策的利益不會轉化為 2025 年的股息，或者就像，我不知道，如果你能評論一下你對今年股息的看法，那將會非常有幫助。

Leo, thank you for the question. So for 2025, as I said, we are committed to deliver a payout of 100% of net income or above for both '25 and '26. And so far, we have already underway a capital reduction that will be paid now on July 15 amounting to BRL2 billion. And also the outstanding interest on capital that were declared last year, and they will pay on April 13 of -- in the amount of BRL2.2 billion. So that's add up BRL4.2 billion.

Leo，謝謝你的提問。因此，正如我所說，對於 2025 年，我們致力於在 25 年和 26 年實現 100% 或以上的淨收入支出。到目前為止，我們已經開始減資，減資額為 20 億巴西雷亞爾，將於 7 月 15 日支付。還有去年宣布的未償還資本利息，他們將於 4 月 13 日支付 22 億巴西雷亞爾。所以總計為 42 億巴西雷亞爾。

And on top of that, we continue with our share buyback program that we already acquired BRL200 million in shares in the first quarter, in the first couple of months. And we have just approved a total plan of BRL1.75 billion for the next month.

除此之外，我們也繼續執行股票回購計劃，在第一季的頭幾個月裡，我們已經收購了價值 2 億巴西雷亞爾的股票。我們剛剛批准了下個月總額為17.5億雷亞爾的計畫。

So again, we have not -- we are not giving guidance about the net income for the year, but you can see the strong trend that we have in our business and particularly on -- in terms of also the cash generation. So we have all the elements to continue having an attractive shareholder remuneration.

所以，我們再次重申，我們沒有——我們沒有給出有關今年淨收入的指導，但你可以看到我們的業務呈現強勁趨勢，特別是在現金產生方面。因此，我們擁有繼續提供具有吸引力的股東薪酬的所有因素。

Regarding second question, also, the provision that we released in Q4, as you say, was mainly on accounting. But looking for the next few years, we -- as we have described, we have a strong plan to monetize both real estate and also the copper on top of also benefiting the cost lines that we have seen those quarters, that we have already implemented a plan that will be executed as soon as we have all the final approvals that we expect this to happen very early.

關於第二個問題，正如您所說，我們在第四季度發布的條款主要涉及會計。但展望未來幾年，正如我們所描述的，我們有一個強有力的計劃，將房地產和銅都貨幣化，同時也使成本線受益，我們已經看到這些季度，我們已經實施了一項計劃，一旦我們獲得所有最終批准，我們預計這將很快發生。

So we are just in a moment where the transformation of our cost structure, particularly in infrastructure, will take place. And you will see a positive impact on the trends.

因此，我們正處於成本結構（尤其是基礎設施）轉型的時刻。你會看到趨勢的正面影響。

Camila Koga, Bradesco BBI.

卡米拉·科加（Camila Koga），Bradesco BBI。

So regarding the mobile service revenue, could you please give us more detail on the reasons for the quarter-over-quarter slight decrease and how you see it going forward?

那麼關於行動服務收入，您能否詳細說明環比略有下降的原因以及您對未來發展的看法？

So Camila, this is Christian. So thank your question. First, I think it's important to highlight that we have a very strong growth of 7% in the fourth quarter. And if you see the growth that we had in the postpaid is even higher. So that was a good outcome for the quarter.

卡米拉，這是克里斯蒂安。感謝您的提問。首先，我認為有必要強調的是，我們第四季的成長率非常強勁，達到 7%。如果你看到，我們的後付費業務的成長甚至更高。所以這對本季來說是一個好的結果。

And if you compare your question, quarter-over-quarter, it's true that we had a very strong third quarter. So the comparison when you go one quarter to the other, it's not maybe very fair because we grew 8.4% in the quarter before. If I'm not mistaken -- sorry, we grew -- in the postpaid, we grew 9.1% in the fourth quarter, and it grew 10.1% in the year before.

如果你將你的問題與上一季進行比較，你會發現我們第三季的表現確實非常強勁。因此，當你將一個季度與另一個季度進行比較時，可能不太公平，因為我們在前一個季度成長了 8.4%。如果我沒記錯的話——抱歉，我們的後付費業務確實成長了——第四季成長了 9.1%，去年同期成長了 10.1%。

When you go the price increase that we had in 2023, we had an average of 9% increase in the second half of '23. And when you compare to the second half of '24, we had an average price increase of 5%.

如果你看一下我們在 2023 年的價格上漲，你會發現 2023 年下半年的價格平均上漲了 9%。與 24 年下半年相比，我們的平均價格上漲了 5%。

So again, when you compare year-over-year, we had a very strong increase in 2023 that we don't -- we couldn't repeat in the second quarter of '24. Postpaid, although it was very strong, 9.1%, we had a prepaid softer in the fourth quarter. Again, do -- a lot to the migration, we've been migrating a lot of customers from prepaid to hybrid.

因此，再次進行同比比較時，我們會發現我們在 2023 年實現了非常強勁的成長，而我們無法在 2024 年第二季重複這一成長。儘管後付費業務表現強勁，達到 9.1%，但第四季預付費業務表現較弱。再次強調，我們做了很多遷移工作，我們已經將許多客戶從預付費遷移到混合付費。

If you know also, you look in the fourth quarter, we had 18% more migrations, and you can -- you could see our net adds of the quarter, close to 1 million customers. That is also a very high performance that we've been having in the last quarter, but also to highlight in the fourth quarter.

如果您還知道，您看第四季度，我們的遷移量增加了 18%，您可以看到本季我們淨增的客戶數量接近 100 萬。這也是我們在上個季度取得的非常高的表現，也是第四季的亮點。

In November '23 also, I want to give you some update about the prepaid. That was when we increased our price from BRL15 to BRL17, and we couldn't do the same movement in the fourth quarter '24. So that's impacting also the evolution that we see in the prepaid revenues.

同樣在 23 年 11 月，我想向您提供一些有關預付費的最新資訊。當時我們將價格從 15 巴西雷亞爾提高到了 17 巴西雷亞爾，但我們無法在 24 年第四季採取同樣的措施。這也影響了我們所看到的預付費收入的變化。

Again, we are working in many areas to continue to grow our revenues in the mobile, and we are very optimistic, especially because we are presenting a churn rate that is below 1%. We increased front book prices of hybrid and grew postpaid, now in February on average, 7%, 8%.

再次強調，我們正在多個領域開展工作，以繼續增加我們在行動領域的收入，我們非常樂觀，特別是因為我們的客戶流失率低於 1%。我們提高了混合型電費的前期帳面價格，並增加了後付費電費，目前 2 月的平均漲幅為 7% 至 8%。

We normally apply and will do so in the price for the customer base in April -- starting in April and going until August. And our commercial performance is still the strongest one in the market, not only in terms of acquisition of customers, but also the very low churn and especially in the ability to offer mobile plus fixed.

我們通常會在四月針對客戶群實施價格—從四月開始一直持續到八月。我們的商業表現仍然是市場上最強勁的，不僅在客戶獲取方面，而且在客戶流失率非常低方面，尤其是在提供行動加固定服務的能力方面。

So that's maybe the full explanation, not only the explanation from the third quarter versus the fourth quarter but, again, highlighting the very strong number that we had in postpaid, 9.1%, and our ability of price increase that we started already with the front book and we'll continue to do in our customer base starting now in April.

所以這也許就是完整的解釋，不僅是第三季度與第四季度的解釋，而且再次強調了我們在後付費方面的強勁表現，即 9.1%，以及我們已經從前台開始漲價的能力，從 4 月份開始，我們將繼續在我們的客戶群中這樣做。

Bernardo Guttmann, XP.

貝爾納多·古特曼，XP。

Actually, I have two from my side. The first one is related to margin. Excluding the one-off effect, the margin would have faced a year-over-year compression. What can we expect for this year considering the expectation of rising inflation? What elements could drive the margin up considering cost pressures?

事實上，我這邊有兩個。第一個與保證金有關。如果不計一次性影響，利潤率將面臨年比壓縮。考慮到通膨上升的預期，我們對今年的預期是什麼？考慮到成本壓力，哪些因素可以提高利潤率？

And the second question is about the change in the concession regime. Trying to understand the company's approach regarding the sale of reversible assets, what we can expect in terms of the speed of selling copper and real estate assets?

第二個問題是關於特許經營制度的變化。試圖了解該公司出售可逆資產的方法，我們對出售銅和房地產資產的速度有何期待？

I start with the second question, and then David will jump to answer your first. We have a four-year plan for the concession. We're going to start this year. As David stated before, there is a lot of upside here, especially that we have -- starting with the migration of customers.

我先問第二個問題，然後大衛會直接回答你的第一個問題。我們對該特許經營權有一個四年計劃。我們今年就要開始了。正如大衛之前所說，這裡有很多好處，特別是我們從客戶的遷移開始。

Now we have 1.2 million customers using the copper network, so we have here the opportunity now to migrate these customers to a cutting-edge technology that's going to be fiber. Even here, we have a revenue impact or then maybe we have a cross-sell opportunities when we migrate these customers to fiber. And also the cost to serve these customers will be lower because we're not going to use the copper that we kept until now. And now we can do everything with the fiber.

現在我們有 120 萬客戶使用銅線網絡，因此我們現在有機會將這些客戶遷移到光纖這項尖端技術。即使在這裡，當我們將這些客戶遷移到光纖時，我們也會產生收入影響，或者也許會有交叉銷售機會。而且，由於我們不會使用迄今為止保留的銅，因此為這些客戶提供服務的成本也會降低。現在我們可以用光纖做一切事情。

Then we have 120,000 tons of copper cables that we're going to be reducing. And of course, when we migrate, we are able to sell. We're starting this year. And during the next four years, we're going to be able to do everything.

我們將減少 12 萬噸銅電纜。當然，當我們遷移時，我們就可以出售。我們今年就開始了。在接下來的四年裡，我們將能夠做所有的事情。

Now we have to keep some customers where we are, the carrier of less resource, but it's only until 2028. So apart from these areas, we all can do the migration in all the rest of the state. That is also a vast area that we can do this migration.

現在我們必須保留一些客戶，也就是資源較少的承運人，但這只能持續到 2028 年。因此，除了這些地區之外，我們都可以在該州的其他地方進行遷移。這也是我們可以進行遷移的廣大區域。

And of course, then, we have around 2,000 owned or rented properties in use. We -- today, for the numbers that we have, you can imagine that 50% of this total could be freed up for sale or can have a lease cancellation. So that will also be able to give us a lot of savings and also upside in the sale of the real estate.

當然，我們擁有或租賃約 2,000 處房產正在使用中。我們——今天，根據我們掌握的數字，你可以想像其中 50% 可以出售或取消租約。因此，這也能為我們帶來許多節省，在房地產銷售中也帶來好處。

So again, we have a great opportunity here to improve our results based on these operations that I briefly described to you. If you don't have more questions, I can give David to talk about this one and EBITDA, if you want.

因此，我們再次擁有一個很好的機會，可以根據我向您簡要描述的這些操作來改善我們的結果。如果您沒有其他問題，我可以讓 David 來討論這個問題以及 EBITDA，如果您願意的話。

Yes. So regarding the first one, Bernardo, thank you for the question, so for -- if you look to the evolution of our results, it's difficult to extrapolate one quarter in any -- on trends or neither on margins. So even excluding the other line that you mentioned, the growth that we have on EBITDA for the full year, 9%. So it's a very strong growth, so 9%.

是的。因此，關於第一個問題，貝爾納多，謝謝你的提問，所以，如果你看一下我們業績的演變，很難推斷出任何一個季度的趨勢或利潤率。因此，即使排除您提到的其他項目，我們全年的 EBITDA 成長率也達到 9%。所以這是一個非常強勁的成長，達到9%。

In terms of margin, full year, even excluding the others, is above 40%. So again, so very sure. Even if we consider CapEx and even leases, so we are growing margin year-over-year in almost 1 percentage point -- no, 0.8%. So that means that we have a very solid cost structure that allows us to continue having efficiencies and benefiting from digitalization and transforming the business.

就利潤率而言，即使不包括其他，全年利潤率也在40%以上。所以再說一遍，非常確定。即使我們考慮資本支出甚至租賃，我們的利潤率也同比增長了近 1 個百分點——不，是 0.8%。這意味著我們擁有非常穩固的成本結構，使我們能夠繼續保持效率並從數位化和業務轉型中受益。

And also for the next year, what we are seeing is that some of the costs that we have, particularly in the second half of the year and this quarter, have to do with preparing the company to benefit from the concession. So we have been running some of projects that obviously have a cost. These costs not only will not be for next year, but also we will have the benefit for what we have invested, particularly in this quarter.

對於明年而言，我們看到的是，我們的部分成本，特別是下半年和本季的成本，與公司從優惠政策中獲益的準備工作有關。因此，我們一直在運行一些顯然有成本的項目。這些成本不僅不會在明年產生，而且我們還將從我們的投資中獲得收益，特別是在本季。

So once we start having, as Christian mentioned, the sale of the copper and the real estate, what we will see is that for the future, we will see these others will also start to be positive, but not only in terms of net income and EBITDA, but also in terms of cash flow. And in some cases, the cash flow will be even higher than the amount that you will see in EBITDA.

因此，正如克里斯蒂安所提到的那樣，一旦我們開始出售銅和房地產，我們就會看到，未來這些其他業務也將開始呈現積極態勢，不僅是在淨收入和 EBITDA 方面，而且在現金流方面也是如此。在某些情況下，現金流量甚至會高於 EBITDA 中的金額。

So trying to answer your question, we always look to margin, but not only EBITDA, but also after leases and CapEx. And we are optimistic in terms of improving the trends. I'm not talking about EBITDA margin. I'm talking more about EBITDA after leases and CapEx for the future.

因此，嘗試回答您的問題，我們始終關注利潤率，但不僅是 EBITDA，還包括租賃和資本支出後的利潤率。我們對改善趨勢持樂觀態度。我不是說 EBITDA 利潤率。我更多地談論的是租賃後的 EBITDA 和未來的資本支出。

Felipe Cheng, Santander.

費利佩·程（Felipe Cheng），桑坦德銀行。

And there are two questions from my side. The first one related to B2B revenues in the fixed line segment. Even if we adjust for the acquisition of IPNET, the growth was very strong at 15% year-over-year.

我有兩個問題。第一個與固定線路領域的 B2B 收入有關。即使我們根據收購 IPNET 做出調整，成長率仍然非常強勁，年成長 15%。

I was just wondering if there is anything specific to this quarter or if we should expect the strong level of growth to carry over 2025. If you could maybe detail a little bit of what were the main drivers here for us to see such an acceleration versus the previous quarters.

我只是想知道本季是否有什麼特別之處，或者我們是否應該預期強勁的成長水準將持續到 2025 年。您能否詳細說明一下與前幾季相比，我們看到這種加速成長的主要驅動因素是什麼？

And my second question is related to the timing, right, of the migration of these 1.2 million customers, which are currently using the copper technology. And what maybe we could expect in terms of revenue accretion and free cash flow margin for these customers once they are migrated? Any detail you can provide on that would be great.

我的第二個問題與這 120 萬目前正在使用銅線技術的客戶的遷移時間有關。一旦這些客戶遷移完畢，我們可以期待他們的營收成長和自由現金流利潤率如何？如果您能提供任何有關此問題的詳細資訊就太好了。

Thank you. I' start with the first one. No, there is nothing specific. That's the pace of the business. And apart from the BRL63 million that you correctly highlight, it is a small amount. You're talking about BRL63 million of IPNET. Over BRL1.9 million that we have now, the total cloud revenue for the quarter.

謝謝。我從第一個開始。不，沒有什麼具體的事情。這就是業務的節奏。除了您正確強調的 6300 萬巴西雷亞爾之外，其餘金額很小。您說的是價值 6,300 萬巴西雷亞爾的 IPNET。目前，我們的本季雲端總收入已超過 190 萬巴西雷亞爾。

I think we've been highlighting that for the last quarter. We have a strong focus in the digital services. And in B2B, it represents 7.3% of our total revenue and is 21.2% of the B2B revenue. So -- and it's like we are growing a lot in these lines. We are growing cloud, we are growing IoT messaging, and we are growing other different solutions.

我認為我們上個季度一直在強調這一點。我們非常重視數位服務。在B2B領域，它占我們總收入的7.3%，佔B2B收入的21.2%。所以——看起來我們在這些方面取得了很大的進步。我們正在發展雲端運算，我們正在發展物聯網訊息傳遞，我們正在發展其他不同的解決方案。

I think here is the result of our vast portfolio, partnerships and also acquisitions. As we highlighted here, we also had another one, Vita, that is a Cisco integrator some time ago. We have 5,000 sales people dedicated to serve our 1.8 billion B2B customers in all the different segments. And if you consider the penetration of digital services that we sell through Vivo to these customers, it is around 15%.

我認為這是我們龐大的投資組合、合作關係和收購的結果。正如我們在這裡強調的那樣，我們之前還有另一家公司，Vita，它是思科的整合商。我們擁有 5,000 名銷售人員，致力於為各個不同領域的 18 億 B2B 客戶提供服務。如果考慮到我們透過 Vivo 向這些客戶銷售的數位服務的滲透率，這個數字大約是 15%。

So that give us a room to increase it, especially when you go down the pyramid to customers like median or small companies that have a very low penetration of digital services.

因此，這給了我們增加的空間，特別是當你向下延伸到金字塔底層的客戶，例如數位服務滲透率很低的中型或小型公司時。

So going forward, so over this BRL11 billion or BRL12 billion of revenue that we have in the quarter 4, it's in B2B digital services. So it's 1/3. We grew 20%. But even the telco B2B revenues, apart from the loss that we have in voice, it grew 3.1%.

展望未來，我們第四季的 110 億雷亞爾或 120 億雷亞爾的營收來自 B2B 數位服務。所以是 1/3。我們成長了20%。但即使是電信 B2B 收入，除了語音的損失外，也成長了 3.1%。

So B2B, we think we have a structure that is difficult to replicate, and we could see growth going forward, both in telco and in digital services.

因此，我們認為 B2B 結構很難複製，我們可以看到未來的成長，無論是在電信領域還是數位服務領域。

Then regarding the question on the concession, the 1.2 million customers that we have on -- currently on copper, a large part of those are already on our fiber footprint.

然後關於特許權的問題，我們目前使用銅線的 120 萬客戶，其中很大一部分已經使用我們的光纖網路。

So we have already defined a plan to accelerate the migration. We cannot talk about how many will be in each year. But what we can say is that we have an internal target to capture a significant part of all those benefits in the first four years. So you will start seeing the benefit from -- in a couple of quarters and in four years, a big part of the benefits.

因此我們已經制定了加速遷移的計畫。我們無法談論每年會有多少人參加。但我們可以說的是，我們有一個內部目標，在頭四年內獲得所有這些好處中的很大一部分。因此，您將在幾個季度和四年內開始看到收益，其中很大一部分收益將會出現。

We're going to start right now, as David said, because as we mentioned before, we had some OpEx related to getting the company prepared for this accelerated migration. We did that last quarter. So now we are prepared to start doing that. So that's also we had this impact last quarter that are going to repeat. And now we're going to start capturing the benefits of the migration.

正如大衛所說，我們現在就要開始，因為正如我們之前提到的，我們有一些與讓公司為這種加速遷移做好準備相關的營運支出。我們上個季度就這麼做了。所以現在我們準備開始這樣做。因此，上個季度我們也受到了這種影響，而這種影響還會重複發生。現在我們將開始享受遷移帶來的好處。

Marcelo Santos, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的馬塞洛·桑托斯。

I wanted to touch a bit more about the concession migration and this 1.2 million customers. I think they generate BRL1.3 billion, as you wrote in the presentation. How could we think about -- what are the elements that we could think to understand what kind of potential margin they could have?

我想進一步談談特許經營遷移和這 120 萬客戶的情況。我認為他們創造了 13 億巴西雷亞爾的收入，正如您在簡報中所寫的那樣。我們如何思考—我們可以考慮哪些因素來了解他們可能擁有什麼樣的潛在利潤？

Today, you say they have a negative free cash flow margin, and Vivo has a 15% operating free cash flow margin after leases in 2024. I understand you're not going to give a number, but what kind of the elements could we think to imagine where this could get to?

今天，您說他們的自由現金流利潤率為負，而 Vivo 在 2024 年租賃後的經營自由現金流利潤率為 15%。我知道你不會給一個數字，但是我們可以想到哪些因素來想像這會導致什麼結果呢？

And the second question also related to these clients. I understand it before the concession change, you could also migrate. You already migrated many corporate clients over your life. What changed now? Now you can force them to migrate or to leave. Why are you going to accelerate now? Just wanted to understand better what kind of tools do you have now that you didn't have before.

第二個問題也與這些客戶有關。我理解在優惠政策改變之前，你也可以移民。在您的一生中，您已經遷移了許多企業客戶。現在有什麼改變？現在您可以強迫他們遷移或離開。為什麼現在要加速？只是想更了解您現在擁有哪些以前沒有的工具。

Thank you for the question, Marcelo. I'll answer the second piece and then David goes to the first and then repeat. Yes, you just highlighted, yes, now we can say in a more precise way that they need to migrate before we gave the option.

謝謝你的提問，馬塞洛。我會回答第二部分，然後大衛回答第一部分，然後重複。是的，你剛才強調了，是的，現在我們可以更準確地說，在我們提供選擇之前，他們需要遷移。

Now we have the mandate to migrate customers. And now we have a lot of incentives to do it very, very fast. So it changes. The way we approach customers was that it's a legal decision that we can migrate them to the new technology. It changed completely, and it gives us the right to do it in a very accelerated way. That's mainly the main reason that we could do that in an accelerated way and with results in the short term.

現在我們有權利遷移客戶。現在我們有很多動力來非常非常快地完成這一目標。所以它改變了。我們與客戶溝通的方式是，將他們遷移到新技術是一個合法的決定。它徹底改變了，並賦予我們以非常快的方式去做這件事的權利。這主要是因為我們能夠快速完成這一目標並在短期內取得成果。

Regarding the first, David, if you want to talk a little bit more.

關於第一個問題，大衛，如果你想多談一點。

Marcelo, regarding the first, we currently have a significant footprint of copper in Sao Paulo. So we cannot -- we don't share the number, but it's relevant. That means that the cost to maintain the -- these homes is expensive. Some -- we have a specific contract to maintain the copper. Different to the contract to maintain the fiber.

馬塞洛，關於第一個問題，我們目前在聖保羅擁有大量銅資源。所以我們不能——我們不會分享這個數字，但它是相關的。這意味著維護這些房屋的成本很高。一些——我們有一個特定的合約來維護銅。與維護光纖的合約不同。

So as I said, a significant part of the 1.2 million are already on the footprint of fiber, so we should be able to protect the revenues on fiber technology. That means that the margin could be similar to a traditional telco. The commissioning, the infrastructure that we have today, that is very expensive to maintain because, as Christian mentioned, also -- we also are subject to regulation that force us to repair this old infrastructure in a very short period of time, which is -- at the end of the day, it will be very expensive.

正如我所說，這 120 萬用戶中很大一部分已經使用了光纖，所以我們應該能夠保護光纖技術的收入。這意味著利潤率可能與傳統電信公司相似。我們今天所擁有的這些基礎設施的調試和維護成本非常高，因為正如克里斯蒂安所提到的那樣，我們也受到相關法規的約束，這些法規迫使我們在很短的時間內修復這些老舊的基礎設施，也就是說，最終的成本會非常高昂。

So from now on, we should be released from those obligations, not only for migration, but also to maintain on a different condition. So this will have an impact from day one in OpEx and CapEx.

所以從現在開始，我們應該解除這些義務，不僅是移民方面的義務，也要維持在不同的條件下。因此，這將從第一天起對營運支出和資本支出產生影響。

Vitor Tomita, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的 Vitor Tomita。

Two questions from my side. The first one, you mentioned when talking about margins, some increased commercial activity as the major driver for further largest cost line in this quarter. Could you give us more detail on that and on whether that level of commercial spend was related to any specific initiatives or should remain the norm in upcoming quarters?

我有兩個問題。第一個，您在談到利潤率時提到，一些商業活動的增加是本季成本線進一步擴大的主要驅動力。您能否向我們提供更多有關該問題的細節，以及這種商業支出水平是否與任何具體舉措有關，或者是否應該在未來幾季保持常態？

And my second question would be actually on the side of fiber ARPU. Fiber ARPU has been declining a bit sequentially. Is this being driven by bundling discounts in Vivo Total or mostly just by competition, seasonality or other factors?

我的第二個問題其實是關於光纖 ARPU 方面的。光纖 ARPU 值一直在持續下降。這是由 Vivo Total 中的捆綁折扣推動的嗎？還是主要受競爭、季節性或其他因素的影響？

Vitor, I will start with the second part of the questions. And the fiber ARPU, I think, first, let's highlight the growth in absolute numbers of revenues in fiber, 12.4%. So out of our total revenue of the quarter, the BRL14.5 million, BRL1.8 million it's already fiber.

維托，我將從問題的第二部分開始。至於光纖 ARPU，我認為，首先，讓我們專注於光纖收入絕對數字的成長，即 12.4%。因此，在我們本季的總收入中，1,450 萬巴西雷亞爾、180 萬巴西雷亞爾已經是光纖收入了。

And we're being expanded our footprint. We went from 26 million homes in the end of 2023 to 29.1 million homes in the end of '24. So when you expand so much, also when you start selling to the new places, new neighborhoods, new cities, we have an entry point of customers in a lower price. Then we are able to migrate them to higher speeds or we end the promotions of entering new markets. And that's impacting, of course, the ARPU.

我們正在擴大我們的足跡。2023 年底，我們的家庭數量為 2,600 萬戶，而 2024 年底，數字上升到了 2,910 萬戶。因此，當你擴張到如此規模時，當你開始向新的地方、新的社區、新的城市銷售產品時，我們就能以較低的價格獲得客戶切入點。然後，我們能夠將它們遷移到更高的速度，或終止進入新市場的促銷活動。這當然會影響 ARPU。

And then secondly, there is also the combination of Vivo Total. Vivo Total give us an upside in ARPU when you mix new customers that are coming in with both services with Vivo, customers that have only one of them with Vivo and ended up having both of them.

其次，還有 Vivo Total 的組合。當你將同時使用兩種服務的新客戶與只使用其中一種服務的客戶以及最終同時使用兩種服務的客戶混合使用時，Vivo Total 會為我們帶來 ARPU 的上升。

So our strategy of doing Vivo Total, it's better to see in the customer perspective overall ARPU that is going up. And if you see the revenues coming from Vivo Total, it is also growing in a very strong way. And we are very positive, that's the right decision.

因此，我們實施 Vivo Total 的策略是，最好從客戶角度看到整體 ARPU 的上升。如果你看看來自 Vivo Total 的收入，你會發現它也以非常強勁的方式成長。我們非常肯定，這是正確的決定。

So again, it may impact individually a little bit the ARPU of the fiber that keeps on a very stable level. That, combined with the new entries in new cities that I just described before, is also impacting there, but we have been able to grow in absolute numbers, more than 12% revenues that's already very relevant, 1.8% in the quarter, give you room of what we are doing and what we are able to do in the next quarters.

因此，它可能會對保持非常穩定水平的光纖的 ARPU 產生一點影響。這一點，加上我之前描述的進入新城市的新業務，也產生了影響，但我們的絕對數字已經能夠增長，收入增長超過 12%，這已經非常有意義了，本季度增長了 1.8%，這讓我們有空間了解我們正在做的事情以及我們在接下來的幾個季度能夠做的事情。

Again, here, also, it's good to highlight net adds of fiber customers in the last three quarters. We had 183,000 that adds 1,000 customers in the fourth quarter '23. We came to 192,000 in the third quarter '24, and we reached now to 220,000 customers in the last quarter.

再次，在這裡，也值得強調過去三個季度光纖客戶的淨增數量。我們擁有 183,000 名客戶，其中 2023 年第四季增加了 1,000 名客戶。2024 年第三季度，我們的客戶數量達到 192,000 人，而上一季我們的客戶數量已達到 220,000 人。

And also, we highlighted churn, 1.49%. So that's the right strategy. We're going to keep on doing that, expanding network, expanding penetration and expanding Vivo Total.

此外，我們也強調了客戶流失率，為 1.49%。所以這是正確的策略。我們將繼續這樣做，擴大網路、擴大滲透率並擴大 Vivo Total。

And Vitor, regarding the other question on commercial cost and infrastructure, it's difficult to look at the run rate of a quarter just for the full year because if you look to the trend on the line of commercial cost and infrastructure, even though in the quarter we grew 8.7%, the last 12 months, we grew 5.8%.

維托，關於商業成本和基礎設施的另一個問題，很難只看全年某個季度的運行率，因為如果你看商業成本和基礎設施的趨勢，儘管本季度我們增長了 8.7%，但過去 12 個月，我們增長了 5.8%。

Where the run rate that we are seeing is more close to the one that we have seen for the last 12 months rather than just in one quarter. The commercial activity Christian mentioned in terms of fiber, very strong, but also in mobile. But I would say that also this quarter, we will not maintain the level of growth, particularly on infrastructure costs.

我們所看到的運行率更接近過去 12 個月的運行率，而不僅僅是某個季度的運行率。Christian 提到的商業活動在光纖方面非常強勁，在行動方面也同樣強勁。但我想說的是，本季我們也不會維持成長水平，尤其是基礎設施成本。

As we said before, the last -- the second half of the year, particularly the last quarter, we were preparing the company also with some specific investments to make sure that we can accelerate some of the benefit that we'll be capturing from the migration. So as I say, the 5.8%, which represent the last 12 months makes more sense as a run rate rather than the 5.7%.

正如我們之前所說，去年下半年，特別是最後一個季度，我們也為公司準備了一些特定的投資，以確保我們能夠加速從遷移中獲得的一些好處。所以，正如我所說，代表過去 12 個月的 5.8% 作為運行率比 5.7% 更有意義。

Lucca Brendim, Bank of America.

盧卡·布倫丁，美國銀行。

I have two here. First, also on the concession migration, can you give us some more color on the numbers related to the copper cables? As we understand from the 120,000 tons, not all of it is copper. You also have other materials. Can we have a rough estimate or any color on how can we think about how much of that is actually copper?

我這裡有兩個。首先，同樣關於特許權遷移，您能否提供我們更多與銅纜相關的資料？我們從這12萬噸中了解到，其中並非全是銅。您還有其他材料。我們能否粗略估計一下，或者說，如何判斷其中實際上有多少是銅？

And second, also on this point specifically. What can we think about the extraction cost and the margin that you'll be selling this, if this will be mostly related with the cost you're already be having to install the fiber and then they will both go together? Or if we can get any more color on that, that would be great.

其次，也具體談到這一點。如果這主要與您安裝光纖的成本有關，那麼我們如何看待提取成本和您銷售該產品的利潤，然後它們會結合在一起？或者如果我們能對此獲得更多詳細信息，那就太好了。

And second, you increased prices for hybrid and postpaid, but not for prepaid. So the gap for hybrid to prepaid continues to go up. Do you have any plans of increasing prices on prepaid in the future? And do you think that this larger gap might be a problem for upsell in the future as well? So those would be my questions.

其次，你們提高了混合付費和後付費的價格，但沒有提高預付費的價格。因此，混合付費和預付費之間的差距持續擴大。你們將來有提高預付費價格的計畫嗎？您是否認為這種較大的差距也會對未來的追加銷售造成問題？這就是我的問題。

Lucca, we are not giving details on the 120,000 tons of copper. Of course, most of it is copper, and that's going to give more visibility over the next months as soon as we also get into the more detail of the operation of extracting.

盧卡，我們不會透露有關這 12 萬噸銅的詳細資訊。當然，其中大部分是銅，而且，在接下來的幾個月裡，當我們更詳細地了解開採作業時，這將會帶來更多的可見性。

Of course, there is a lot of value in the copper. You cannot say that it's going to be mitigated by the CapEx related to the fiber. The CapEx related to fiber, today, the home passed, we are talking about less than BRL200. So it's far from being what is penalizing as the migration. And also the migration will be with an upside in revenues.

當然，銅的價值很高。你不能說它會透過與光纖相關的資本支出來緩解。與光纖相關的資本支出，今天，透過家庭傳輸，我們談論的是少於 200 巴西雷亞爾。因此，這與移民的懲罰相差甚遠。而且遷移也會為收入帶來增加。

Sao Paulo, the state of Sao Paulo is the key market for Vivo. We're going to get the benefit of extracting the copper, putting fiber and also connecting these customers to fiber and capture not only the voice, but the broadband and even the TV, if it's the case. And also all the other, their digital servers that we are going to sell.

聖保羅，聖保羅州是 Vivo 的重點市場。我們將從開採銅線、鋪設光纖以及將這些客戶連接到光纖中獲益，不僅可以捕捉語音，還可以捕捉寬頻，甚至電視（如果可以的話）。還有我們要出售的所有其他數位伺服器。

So of course, I don't have the number. But of course, it is much more positive for -- to Vivo than it could be negative, especially with the copper price.

所以當然，我沒有這個號碼。但當然，對於 Vivo 來說，它的利大於弊，尤其是在銅價上漲的情況下。

Regarding the price of prepaid, yes, you're right. I think prepaid requires a price increase. Hopefully, we're going to be able to do soon. And -- but we keep migrating customers in a very positive way. So if you see the numbers of our net adds, it's not only migration, but there's a lot of migration, but if you also look, affordability is also a positive.

關於預付費的價格，是的，你是對的。我認為預付費需要提高價格。希望我們很快就能做到。並且——但我們繼續以非常積極的方式遷移客戶。因此，如果你看到我們的淨增人數，你會發現這不僅是移民，而且移民數量很多，但如果你再看一下，你會發現負擔能力也是一個積極因素。

So Vivo keeps being the most attractive value proposition of the market. So I agree with you. We have a challenge if there is a difference in pricing in prepaid. Hopefully, it's not going to be like this for the rest of the year. So let's see our strategy going forward.

因此，Vivo 繼續成為市場上最具吸引力的價值主張。所以我同意你的看法。如果預付費定價有差異，我們就會面臨挑戰。希望今年剩餘時間不要出現這種情況。讓我們看看我們未來的策略。

Phani Kanumuri, HSBC.

匯豐銀行的 Phani Kanumuri。

The first one is regarding the timeline for positivity due to the change of license agreement. So because of the change of migration -- because of the migration of the license, you have some obligations as well as you have some CapEx and OpEx savings. So how do you see the impact on FCF? Is it going to be positive from the first year? Or is it going to take some time to be positive?

第一個是關於由於許可協議的改變而產生的積極性的時間表。因此，由於遷移的變化——由於許可證的遷移，您有一些義務，同時也有一些資本支出和營運支出節省。那麼您如何看待對自由現金流的影響？從第一年開始就會有正面的結果嗎？或者說需要花一些時間才能看到正面結果？

My second question is regarding your use of cash. So Vivo generated about BRL8 billion of free cash flow, but has provided about BRL6 billion of shareholder remuneration. So is there some other use of cash other than shareholder remuneration for Vivo? Is it planning for some acquisitions going forward?

我的第二個問題是關於您使用現金的情況。因此，Vivo 產生了約 80 億雷亞爾的自由現金流，但提供了約 60 億雷亞爾的股東報酬。那麼，除了股東報酬之外，Vivo 的現金還有其他用途嗎？未來是否有一些收購計畫？

So regarding the second question, yes, we are always looking at opportunities. As you know, our debt level is very low. Even considering the leases, the IFRS 16. And we acquired a company in IPNET that I just described. And we are always looking at opportunities.

關於第二個問題，是的，我們一直在尋找機會。如您所知，我們的債務水平非常低。即使考慮租賃，IFRS 16。我們收購了我剛才描述的IPNET公司。我們一直在尋找機會。

We continue to accelerate fiber expansion organically through our neutral network and always also checking opportunities for M&A in the digital arena, also in B2C and B2B. As we're expanding more than 10% of our revenues are coming from the services, we also always very open to see opportunities that could add talent to our team, but also could also accelerate our revenue expansion. So yes, so your assessment is correct.

我們繼續透過我們的中立網路有機地加速光纖擴張，並始終在數位領域、B2C 和 B2B 領域尋找併購機會。隨著我們不斷擴張，超過 10% 的收入來自服務，我們也始終非常樂意尋找可以為我們的團隊增添人才的機會，同時也可以加速我們的收入擴張。是的，所以你的評估是正確的。

Regarding the first part, David can answer you. But it's -- the investments are five to ten years, and NPV considers OpEx and CapEx.

關於第一部分，David可以回答你。但投資期間為五到十年，NPV 會考慮營運支出 (OpEx) 和資本支出 (CapEx)。

And I don't know specifically what was -- if you could see that, David, if you.

我不知道具體是什麼——如果你能看到這一點，大衛，如果你能看到。

So the investment that Christian said will happen from now to next 10 years. And the OpEx will be those 10 plus another 10, so 20 years. As we said before, the benefit from the migration, we want to capture a big part of the benefits, real estate and copper in the first four years.

因此，克里斯蒂安所說的投資將從現在到未來10年發生。而營運支出將是這 10 年加上另外 10 年，也就是 20 年。正如我們之前所說，我們希望在移民帶來的利益中獲得很大一部分，即前四年的房地產和銅。

So in terms of speed of benefit and investment, we will maximize the value for our shareholders and always maximizing the free cash flow in the coming years.

因此，就獲利速度和投資速度而言，我們將最大限度地提高股東價值，並在未來幾年始終實現自由現金流最大化。

And a quick follow-up. Is there any change in CapEx envelope because of the migration?

並進行快速跟進。遷移後，資本支出範圍會改變嗎？

We don't give guidance. And we are working on, as we said before, no growing revenue, EBITDA above inflation and reducing CapEx intensity over revenues, and that's what we're going to continue doing.

我們不提供指導。正如我們之前所說，我們正在努力實現收入不增長、EBITDA 高於通膨、資本支出強度低於收入的目標，我們將繼續這樣做。

The Q&A session is over. We would like to hand the floor back to Mr. Christian Gebara for the company's final remarks. Mr. Gebara, the microphone is yours.

問答環節結束。我們想將發言權交還給 Christian Gebara 先生，請他發表公司的最後發言。格巴拉先生，麥克風是您的。

So thank you, everyone, for participating. As I stated in the beginning, we are very pleased with the results and very optimistic with the quarters to come based on our unique value proposition, focus on customer lifetime value and our strong ability to monetize our superior customer experience and leadership in all the segments, in all the products and in all the services.

感謝大家的參與。正如我在一開始所說的，我們對業績非常滿意，並且對未來幾季的前景非常樂觀，這基於我們獨特的價值主張、對客戶終身價值的關注以及我們在所有領域、所有產品和服務中將卓越客戶體驗和領導地位貨幣化的強大能力。

So if you have any additional questions, please, you can reach all of us here in the Vivo team. Thank you.

因此，如果您有任何其他問題，請聯絡 Vivo 團隊的所有成員。謝謝。

Vivo's conference is now closed. We thank you for your participation and have a great day.

Vivo 發表會目前已經結束。感謝您的參與並祝您有個愉快的一天。