Virtu Financial Inc (VIRT) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Hello, and welcome to the Virtu Financial 2023 Fourth Quarter Results. My name is Alex, and I will be coordinating the call today. (Operator Instructions). I'll now hand it over to your host, Andrew Smith of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

您好，歡迎閱讀 Virtu Financial 2023 年第四季業績。我叫亞歷克斯，今天我將協調通話。 （操作員說明）。現在我將把它交給東道主投資者關係部門的安德魯史密斯。請繼續。

Thank you, Alex, and good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us. Our fourth quarter results were released this morning and are available on our website. With us today on this morning's call, we have Mr. Douglas Cifu, our Chief Executive Officer; Mr. Joseph Molluso, our Co-President and Co-Chief Operating Officer; and Ms. Cindy Lee, our Deputy Chief Financial Officer. We will begin with prepared remarks and then take your questions.

謝謝你，亞歷克斯，大家早安。感謝您加入我們。我們的第四季業績已於今天上午發布，可在我們的網站上查看。今天早上參加電話會議的有我們的執行長 Douglas Cifu 先生； Joseph Molluso 先生，我們的聯合總裁兼聯席營運長；以及我們的副財務長 Cindy Lee 女士。我們將從準備好的演講開始，然後回答您的問題。

First, a few reminders. Today's call may include forward-looking statements, which represent Virtu's current belief regarding future events and are, therefore, subject to risks, assumptions and uncertainties, which may be outside the company's control. Please note that our actual results and financial conditions may differ materially from what is indicated in these forward-looking statements. It is important to note that any forward-looking statements made on this call are based on information currently available to the company and we do not undertake to update or revise any forward-looking statements as new information becomes available.

首先，有幾點提醒。今天的電話會議可能包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述代表了 Virtu 目前對未來事件的信念，因此受到風險、假設和不確定性的影響，這些風險、假設和不確定性可能超出了公司的控制範圍。請注意，我們的實際結果和財務狀況可能與這些前瞻性聲明中所示的內容有重大差異。值得注意的是，本次電話會議中所做的任何前瞻性陳述均基於本公司目前掌握的信息，我們不承諾在新資訊出現時更新或修改任何前瞻性陳述。

We refer you to disclaimers in our press release and encourage you to review the description of risk factors contained in our annual report, Form 10-K and other public filings. During today's call, in addition to GAAP measures, we may refer to certain non-GAAP measures, including adjusted net trading income, adjusted net income, adjusted EBITDA and adjusted EBITDA margin. These non-GAAP measures should be considered as supplemental to and not as superior to financial measures as reported in importance of GAAP. We direct listeners to consult the Investor portion of our website, where you'll find additional supplemental information referred to on this call as well as a reconciliation of non-GAAP measures to the equivalent GAAP terms in the earnings materials with an explanation of why we deem this information to be meaningful as well as how management uses these measures.

我們建議您參閱我們新聞稿中的免責聲明，並鼓勵您查看我們的年度報告、10-K 表格和其他公開文件中包含的風險因素描述。在今天的電話會議中，除了 GAAP 指標外，我們還可能參考某些非 GAAP 指標，包括調整後淨交易收入、調整後淨利潤、調整後 EBITDA 和調整後 EBITDA 利潤率。這些非公認會計原則措施應被視為對公認會計原則重要性所報告的財務措施的補充，而不是優於財務措施。我們引導聽眾諮詢我們網站的投資者部分，您可以在其中找到本次電話會議中提到的其他補充信息，以及非 GAAP 措施與收益材料中等效 GAAP 條款的協調表，並解釋我們為什麼這樣做認為這些資訊有意義以及管理階層如何使用這些措施。

And with that, I'd like to turn the call over to Doug.

說到這裡，我想把電話轉給道格。

Thank you, Andrew, and good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us this morning. In my remarks today, I will focus on Virtu's fourth quarter 2023 financial and business performance and strategic initiatives. Following my remarks, Joe and Cindy will provide additional details on our results. Looking at our full year and fourth quarter 2023 results, which are summarized on Slide 2 of the supplemental material, we generated $4.8 million and $4.14 million of adjusted net trading income per day for the full year 2023 and the fourth quarter of 2023, respectively. We reported normalized adjusted EPS of $0.27 for the fourth quarter and $1.84 for the full year of 2023.

謝謝你，安德魯，大家早安。感謝您今天早上加入我們。在今天的演講中，我將重點介紹 Virtu 2023 年第四季的財務和業務業績以及策略舉措。在我發言之後，喬和辛蒂將提供有關我們結果的更多詳細資訊。請參閱補充資料投影片 2 中總結的 2023 年全年和第四季業績，我們在 2023 年全年和 2023 年第四季每天分別產生 480 萬美元和 414 萬美元的調整後淨交易收入。我們報告的第四季度標準化調整後每股收益為 0.27 美元，2023 年全年為 1.84 美元。

Slide 3 highlights that our Market Making segment earned an average of $2.7 million per day of adjusted net trading income in the quarter, while our Execution Services business delivered $1.5 million per day, an increase of 4% per day over the prior quarter. This quarter's performance reflects the significant reduction in opportunity, particularly for our customer Market Making business compared to the prior quarter, driven by a combination of reduced addressable volumes and spreads as evidenced by especially weak 2-month stretch of volatility to the end of the year. We have seen episodic periods of softer volumes and volatility in the past, most recently in the fourth quarter of 2022, and today, we are better positioned than ever from an expense, capital structure and trading capabilities perspective to convert opportunity into (inaudible) in any environment.

投影片 3 強調，我們的做市部門在本季平均每天賺取 270 萬美元的調整後淨交易收入，而我們的執行服務業務每天交付 150 萬美元，比上一季每天成長 4%。本季的業績反映了機會的顯著減少，特別是與上一季相比，我們的客戶做市業務的機會大幅減少，這是由於可尋址量和價差的減少共同推動的，截至年底的兩個月波動性特別疲軟就證明了這一點。我們過去曾經歷過交易量和波動性減弱的時期，最近一次是在2022 年第四季度，而今天，從費用、資本結構和交易能力的角度來看，我們比以往任何時候都處於更好的位置，可以將機會轉化為（聽不清楚）任何環境。

As we have said before, our disciplined focus on expense management and building operating leverage in Virtu remains uniquely ready to deliver results in any environment. While we remain very early in 2024, we have seen improvement in the overall market conditions and Market Making opportunities so far in January, particularly around crypto products, as I will address later in my remarks. As we've said previously, while market share alone is limited as a gauge of performance, we would like to note that our market share in the wholesale Market Making business remains within historic ranges. We are confident that our growth initiatives, combined with our efforts to enhance our spread capture rate through greater internalization, thanks to our global scale and diversity, will yield benefits in any environment.

正如我們之前所說，我們在 Virtu 中對費用管理和建立營運槓桿的嚴格關注仍然能夠在任何環境中交付成果。雖然我們仍處於 2024 年的早期階段，但我們已經看到 1 月份迄今為止整體市場狀況和做市機會的改善，特別是在加密產品方面，我將在稍後的發言中談到這一點。正如我們之前所說，雖然僅以市場份額作為績效衡量標準是有限的，但我們想指出的是，我們在批發做市業務中的市場份額仍處於歷史範圍內。我們相信，憑藉我們的全球規模和多樣性，我們的成長舉措，加上我們透過更大程度的內部化來提高利差捕獲率的努力，將在任何環境下產生效益。

Our noncustomer Market Making business, which provides liquidity across asset classes globally, performed well in the quarter relative to the opportunity. Our organic growth initiatives, including our expansion to options Market Making continue to expand and perform well, making meaningful progress every quarter. In the fourth quarter, we generated $423,000 per day of organic growth, which represents 10% of ANTI in the period. We remain very optimistic about the opportunities across all our growth initiatives, and we are excited for these initiatives to reach new heights in 2024. On the Execution Services side, our adjusted net trading income averaged $1.5 million per day in the fourth quarter, which was up by about 4% from the third quarter. We continue to see incremental and impressive results despite the general softening in the market opportunity for VES.

我們的非客戶做市業務為全球資產類別提供流動性，在本季相對於機會表現良好。我們的有機成長計劃，包括擴展到選擇權做市業務，繼續擴大並表現良好，每個季度都取得有意義的進展。第四季度，我們每天產生 423,000 美元的有機成長，佔該期間 ANTI 的 10%。我們對所有成長計畫的機會仍然非常樂觀，我們對這些計畫在 2024 年達到新的高度感到興奮。在執行服務方面，我們在第四季度調整後的淨交易收入平均每天 150 萬美元，這是較第三季成長約4%。儘管 VES 的市場機會普遍疲軟，但我們仍繼續看到增量和令人印象深刻的成果。

In addition to general [wallet] compression, institutional activity remains slow as investors reacted and adjusted to the sustained higher rate environment. Despite these challenges, VES performed in line with its opportunity quarter-over-quarter as well as for the full year 2023. We have incremental growth plans outside the United States, which are materializing as we transition resources from a multiyear integration of technology across a long tail of clients towards expanding our footprint. To this end, in 2023, VES leveraged our investments and enhancements to accomplish key growth milestones, including winning the remit to be the fixed income EMS or a world-class app manager in Europe as well successfully deploying Virtu's Triton Valor execution management system, training analytics, positive work and global equity execution authors of one of the largest asset managers in Asia.

除了普遍的[錢包]壓縮之外，隨著投資者對持續較高的利率環境做出反應和調整，機構活動仍然緩慢。儘管面臨這些挑戰，VES 的季度環比以及 2023 年全年表現都符合其機會。我們在美國以外制定了增量增長計劃，隨著我們從跨領域的多年技術整合中轉移資源，這些計劃正在實現。客戶的長尾致力於擴大我們的足跡。為此，VES 在 2023 年利用我們的投資和增強功能來實現關鍵的成長里程碑，包括贏得成為歐洲固定收益 EMS 或世界一流應用程式管理器的職責，以及成功部署 Virtu 的 Triton Valor 執行管理系統、培訓亞洲最大資產管理公司之一的分析、積極工作和全球股票執行作者。

Most important, overall productivity and profitability within the VES segment has grown significantly since we began the technology rebuild and monetization and streamlining the business. We are very excited about the growth opportunities in 2024 for VES. Taking a step back and look at our 2023 results and despite the recent softness, we believe our strategic focus in areas of growth aligned for long-term success as we expand our addressable market by adding more asset classes and offerings to our suite of products. Our focus on enhancing our core businesses and the continued success of our growth initiatives positions us well for any macro environment, including significant spikes in volatility and volumes that typically accompany increase in global tension and economic uncertainty, change in monetary policy and elections. We continue to hire and make investments in our business.

最重要的是，自從我們開始技術重建、貨幣化和精簡業務以來，VES 領域的整體生產力和獲利能力顯著成長。我們對 VES 2024 年的成長機會感到非常興奮。退後一步，看看我們2023 年的業績，儘管最近表現疲軟，但我們相信，隨著我們透過在產品套件中添加更多資產類別和產品來擴大我們的目標市場，我們在成長領域的策略重點與長期成功保持一致。我們對增強核心業務的關注以及我們成長計畫的持續成功使我們能夠應對任何宏觀環境，包括通常伴隨著全球緊張局勢和經濟不確定性的增加、貨幣政策和選舉的變化而出現的波動性和交易量的大幅飆升。我們繼續在我們的業務中招募和投資。

It is worth noting that of our current employees, only 36% of them were at Virtu prior to 2019. This means that we have made significant multiyear investment in new traders, developers and quant, which we expect to continue to bear fruit in the near to medium term. And as you would expect, we remain disciplined as ever around costs throughout the year, which enabled us to realize a 47% adjusted EBITDA margins. Touching briefly on our growth initiatives and options for 2023 was another impressive year for us as we continue to expand our capabilities despite the declining opportunity set in general. In 2023, the occupancy team exceeded expectations as its capability and capacity to address opportunities increase globally.

值得注意的是，我們現有的員工中，只有36% 是在2019 年之前在Virtu 工作的。這意味著我們對新交易員、開發人員和量化人員進行了多年的大量投資，我們預計這些投資將在不久的將來繼續取得成果到中期。正如您所期望的那樣，我們全年都一如既往地嚴格控製成本，這使我們實現了 47% 的調整後 EBITDA 利潤率。簡要介紹 2023 年的成長計畫和選擇對我們來說又是令人印象深刻的一年，儘管總體機會減少，但我們仍在繼續擴大我們的能力。 2023 年，隨著其在全球範圍內抓住機會的能力和能力不斷增強，入住團隊超出了預期。

As I mentioned on our last call, we saw a meaningful uptick in our crypto Market Making business at the end of the third quarter, which persisted into the fourth quarter. It's probably no surprise that our crypto Market Making is off to a record start in 2024 as a result of the elevated interest in new opportunities related to the recently approved Spot Bitcoin ETFs in the United States. As I'm sure you well know, on January 10, the SEC approved 11 Spot Bitcoin ETFs for trading and as a global 24/7 Market Maker, Virtu was among the first trades in these products when they began trading at 4 A.M. on the first day. We proudly acted and authorized participants for all the (inaudible) issuers. While it's only been a few weeks since the Spot Bitcoin ETFs were approved, the ETFs have presented significant Market Making opportunities.

正如我在上次電話會議中提到的，我們的加密貨幣做市業務在第三季末出現了有意義的成長，並持續到第四季。由於人們對美國最近批准的現貨比特幣 ETF 相關的新機會的興趣增加，我們的加密貨幣做市在 2024 年創下了創紀錄的開局，這可能並不奇怪。我相信您很清楚，1 月10 日，SEC 批准了11 只現貨比特幣ETF 進行交易，作為全球24/7 做市商，Virtu 是這些產品的首批交易之一，它們於凌晨4 點開始交易。在第一天。我們自豪地為所有（聽不清楚）發行人代理並授權參與者。雖然現貨比特幣 ETF 獲得批准才幾週時間，但這些 ETF 已經提供了重要的做市機會。

It's worth noting that these initial 11 Bitcoin ETFs are just the first wave of crypto ETFs that the market expects to be approved. So we expect there will be many more coming. Issuers have already filed application with the SEC to list Spot Bitcoin ETFs as well as the number of novel crypto-related ETFs. Additionally, what crypto ETFs may not interest all investors, we're also seeing an uptick in general retail trading activity across all NMS securities, coinciding with the launch of Spot Bitcoin ETFs, which suggests that retail investors are curious. To bring it full circle, I highlight how the ETFs benefit several of our organic growth initiatives. We're raising significant opportunities for our ETF block business and new existing clients approach us to transact in Bitcoin ETF and we are optimistic about the Market-making opportunities that await once options are listed on ETF.

值得注意的是，這最初的 11 隻比特幣 ETF 只是市場預計獲得批准的第一波加密貨幣 ETF。所以我們預計還會有更多的人來。發行人已向 SEC 提交申請，要求列出貨比特幣 ETF 以及新型加密貨幣相關 ETF 的數量。此外，加密 ETF 可能不會讓所有投資者感興趣，我們還看到所有 NMS 證券的一般零售交易活動有所增加，恰逢現貨比特幣 ETF 的推出，這表明散戶投資者對此感到好奇。為了完整地闡述這一點，我強調了 ETF 如何使我們的幾個有機成長計劃受益。我們正在為我們的 ETF 大宗業務提供重要機會，並且新的現有客戶正在與我們聯繫以進行比特幣 ETF 交易，我們對期權在 ETF 上市後等待的做市機會感到樂觀。

Our ETF block business had a respectable year as well, and we continue to expand our offers to cover more products in more regions, including crypto ETF, as I just mentioned, and fixed income ETFs, which is especially helpful for our rates trading where we continue to make key hires as well as in corporate credit. And last, but certainly not least, our Virtu Capital Markets business saw increased activity in the fourth quarter as financing activity began to return to the market and a number of issuers use our [ActivMoney] service to raise primary capital. I'll now turn it over to Joe and Cindy, who will provide additional details about the quarter. Joe?

我們的ETF 大宗業務也取得了可觀的一年，我們繼續擴大我們的產品範圍，涵蓋更多地區的更多產品，包括我剛才提到的加密ETF 和固定收益ETF，這對我們的利率交易特別有幫助。繼續招募關鍵人員以及企業信貸。最後但並非最不重要的一點是，隨著融資活動開始重返市場，並且許多發行人使用我們的[ActivMoney] 服務來籌集主要資本，我們的Virtu 資本市場業務在第四季度的活動有所增加。我現在將其交給 Joe 和 Cindy，他們將提供有關本季的更多詳細資訊。喬？

Thank you, Doug. Just briefly turning to capital and expenses. On expenses, we ended the year with cash operating expense was $643 million, and that's 5.4% ahead of last year. We think this is a solid performance in this environment and given the investments we are making to grow the business. Our cash compensation ratio is 26% for 2023. This is at the upper end of our historical range. Consistent with Virtu's history, we will manage discretionary compensation and headcount to drive profitability while retaining and recruiting world-class talent. We believe we have achieved this outcome on expenses, particularly on compensation by being prudently aggressive in hiring and maintaining compensation at levels that are best-in-class, while keeping overall headcount relatively flat.

謝謝你，道格。只是簡單地轉向資本和支出。在費用方面，我們年底的現金營運費用為 6.43 億美元，比去年增長 5.4%。我們認為，考慮到我們為發展業務而進行的投資，在這種環境下，這是一個穩健的表現。 2023 年我們的現金薪酬比率為 26%。這是我們歷史範圍的上限。與 Virtu 的歷史一致，我們將管理酌情薪酬和員工人數，以提高盈利能力，同時留住和招募世界一流的人才。我們相信，我們在支出方面取得了這一成果，特別是在薪酬方面，我們透過謹慎積極地招聘和將薪酬維持在一流水平，同時保持總體員工人數相對穩定。

Other noncompensation expenses were up slightly in line with our expectations. So on communications and data processing, we were up 5% in 2023, [going] to investment in building out new businesses and price increases for infrastructure in market data. Our other expenses in 2023 were up a bit due to favorable FX adjustments in the prior year and a little bit of increase in professional fees. On the capital management side, in the supplement on Slide 12, you can see that our trading capital has remained within a range of $1.7 billion to $2 billion for this year. We remain very well capitalized from a trade capital and long-term debt standpoint as well as from a liquidity standpoint. Meaning, we possess adequate resources necessary to capitalize on upside revenue opportunities from increased volumes and volatility as and when they appear.

其他非補償費用略有上升，符合我們的預期。因此，在通訊和資料處理方面，我們在 2023 年成長了 5%，[準備]投資建設新業務並提高市場資料基礎設施的價格。由於上一年有利的外匯調整和專業費用的小幅增加，我們 2023 年的其他費用略有增加。在資本管理方面，在幻燈片12的補充中，您可以看到我們今年的交易資本保持在17億美元至20億美元的範圍內。從貿易資本和長期債務以及流動性的角度來看，我們的資本仍然非常充足。這意味著，我們擁有足夠的資源來利用數量增加和波動性出現時帶來的上行收入機會。

In fact, we were able to enter the crypto and ETF market in early 2024 without a material increase to our overall capital base because of our operational efficiency and available liquidity. We maintain our public $0.96 annual dividend, which we have paid steadily now for 8 years despite variable results over the long term. We believe overall that our dividend is quite sustainable over the long term as it has been for the past 8 years, and we do not anticipate changes to the status quo, including our continued buyback program. In addition, we repurchased 2.4 million shares in the fourth quarter for approximately $44 million. Our period-end share count is now down to 162.7 million shares. And at this point, we have repurchased net of new issuances, 17.7% of our company in the 3-plus years beginning our program.

事實上，由於我們的營運效率和可用流動性，我們能夠在 2024 年初進入加密貨幣和 ETF 市場，而我們的整體資本基礎並沒有大幅增加。我們維持 0.96 美元的年度公開股息，儘管長期業績存在差異，但我們已經穩定支付了 8 年股息。我們相信，總體而言，我們的股息從長遠來看是相當可持續的，就像過去 8 年一樣，我們預計現狀不會發生變化，包括我們持續的回購計劃。此外，我們在第四季以約 4,400 萬美元的價格回購了 240 萬股股票。我們的期末股票數量現已減少至 1.627 億股。目前，在我們計劃開始的 3 年多時間裡，我們已經回購了該公司 17.7% 的股份（扣除新發行的股份）。

And with that, I will turn it over to Cindy to review the financial details briefly before we open up the call to your questions.

這樣，在我們開始回答您的問題之前，我會將其交給辛蒂簡要審查財務詳細資訊。

Thank you, Joe. Good morning, everyone. On Slide 3 of our supplemental materials, we combine a summary of our quarterly performance. For the fourth quarter of 2023, our adjusted net trading income or ANT, which represents our trend gain, net of direct trading expenses, totaled $261 million or $4.1 million per day. Market Making adjusted net trading income was $168 million or $2.7 million per day Execution Services adjusted net trading income was $93 million or $1.5 million per day. Our fourth quarter 2023 normalized adjusted EPS was $0.27. Adjusted EBITDA was $99 million for the fourth quarter of 2023 and our adjusted EBITDA margin was 38%.

謝謝你，喬。大家，早安。在補充資料的幻燈片 3 中，我們結合了季度業績摘要。 2023 年第四季度，我們的調整後淨交易收入或 ANT（扣除直接交易費用後的趨勢收益）總計 2.61 億美元，即每天 410 萬美元。做市調整後的淨交易收入為 1.68 億美元，即每天 270 萬美元。執行服務調整後的淨交易收入為 9,300 萬美元，即每天 150 萬美元。我們的 2023 年第四季標準化調整後每股收益為 0.27 美元。 2023 年第四季調整後 EBITDA 為 9,900 萬美元，調整後 EBITDA 利潤率為 38%。

On Slide 8, we provide a summary of our operating expenses results. For the fourth quarter 2023, we recorded $178 million of adjusted operating expenses. We continue to maintain an efficient cost structure and disciplined (inaudible) management, which has helped us to control our operating expenses during the inflationary environment. We remain committed to our $0.24 per quarter dividend and combined with our share repurchase program demonstrates our continued commitment to return capital to our shareholders. Now I would like to turn the call over to the operator for the Q&A.

在投影片 8 上，我們提供了營運費用結果的摘要。 2023 年第四季度，我們記錄了 1.78 億美元的調整後營運費用。我們繼續保持高效的成本結構和嚴格的（聽不清楚）管理，這有助於我們在通膨環境下控制營運費用。我們仍然致力於每季 0.24 美元的股息，並結合我們的股票回購計劃，表明我們繼續致力於向股東返還資本。現在我想將電話轉給接線員進行問答。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question for today comes from Ken Worthington of JPMorgan.

（操作員說明）我們今天的第一個問題來自摩根大通的 Ken Worthington。

I guess I wanted to kick off the call with more questions around the cryptocurrency opportunity. So first, the cryptocurrency market has rebounded, rebounded in 4Q significantly, a bit more in 1Q. At the same time, (inaudible) has expanded with the AP on the Bitcoin ETFs. So how do the economics change for Virtu as the number of activities participate in expands? So you started with like being a market maker in crypto spot and a market maker in crypto companies and miners. And now you're both the market maker and Bitcoin ETFs as well as the AP on the same crypto ETFs. So does your position in one area make the other areas more profitable. And I guess the ultimate punch line here is how much bigger is the crypto revenue opportunity for Virtu today versus other initiatives like options, ETF block and fixed income in the near term growth in crypto broadly?

我想我想在電話會議開始時提出更多有關加密貨幣機會的問題。所以首先，加密貨幣市場出現了反彈，第四季反彈明顯，第一季反彈幅度更大一些。同時，（聽不清楚）AP 已經擴大了比特幣 ETF 的規模。那麼，隨著參與活動數量的增加，Virtu 的經濟狀況又會發生怎樣的變化呢？所以你一開始就像是加密貨幣現貨的做市商以及加密貨幣公司和礦工的做市商。現在，您既是做市商、比特幣 ETF，也是同一加密 ETF 的 AP。那麼你在一個領域的地位是否會讓其他領域更有利可圖。我想這裡的最終妙語是，在加密貨幣的短期成長中，與選擇權、ETF 區塊和固定收益等其他措施相比，Virtu 今天的加密貨幣收入機會有多大？

Yes. Thank you. It's a great question. And to give you credit, you've been asking about crypto for 2 years, so (inaudible) a great answer for you, and thanks in large message of some of these forced regulatory changes in the United States. I mean this has become -- I don't want to be too dramatic, but a bit of a transformational moment for Virtu with regard to this asset class, certainly. And we've seen the results already in the first quarter where we're generating meaningful 6-figure daily P&L from this asset class. And I think you kind of really hit the nail on the head. It really is the perfect type of asset class in the perfect storm, if you will, for Virtu because it combines a lot of our skills around being a multi-asset class regardless of form of a product and a multi-geographic market.

是的。謝謝。這是一個很好的問題。值得讚揚的是，您已經詢問加密貨幣兩年了，所以（聽不清楚）對您來說是一個很好的答案，並感謝美國強制進行的一些監管變化。我的意思是，這已經成為——我不想太戲劇化，但對於 Virtu 來說，對於這個資產類別來說，這確實是一個轉型時刻。我們已經在第一季看到了結果，我們從這個資產類別中產生了有意義的 6 位數的每日損益。我認為你確實擊中了要害。對於 Virtu 來說，如果你願意的話，它確實是完美風暴中的完美資產類別類型，因為它結合了我們作為多資產類別的許多技能，無論產品形式如何，也無論是多地域市場。

So what I mean by that is you know, we have been, as you noted, historically, in Market Maker, Spot Bitcoin and Futures Bitcoin, but throwing in ETFs and creating all of the volume and all the transactions and transformation, if you will, that people are making -- moving from the Grayscale ETF over to the other 10 products, et cetera, means that somebody needs to price and take the risk with regard to that transfer. And so that provides a significant Market Making opportunity for us. But as you know, because we are a Spot Bitcoin Market Maker, not only are we acting as an AP with regard to the cash creation and redemption of the ETF, but we can also act as a dealer, if you will, through one of our affiliates in Singapore where we can provide the point directly to the issuers to the extent they need to satisfy their obligations to have points in their trust.

所以我的意思是，正如您所指出的，我們歷史上一直在做市商、現貨比特幣和期貨比特幣，但如果您願意的話，我們會投入 ETF 並創建所有交易量、所有交易和轉換，人們正在製作的——從灰階ETF 轉移到其他10 個產品等等，這意味著有人需要定價並承擔與轉移有關的風險。因此，這為我們提供了重要的做市機會。但如您所知，因為我們是現貨比特幣做市商，所以我們不僅在 ETF 的現金創造和贖回方面充當 AP，而且如果您願意，我們還可以通過以下方式之一充當交易商：我們在新加坡的附屬機構，我們可以直接向發行人提供積分，只要發行人需要履行其信託積分的義務。

We're also excited, Ken, because there's going to be -- as I mentioned in my prepared remarks, there's going to be a (inaudible) ETFs. There's going to be short and long and leveraged in other products, and there's going to be all kinds of different manifestations around people's interest and we're really in the early innings here because you have a marketplace where you have some of our large clients who think you know very well, who are saying, we're not going to actually allow clients to trade these (inaudible) securities. And then we have other of our clients that are at the forefront of it. And I'm not going to make names, but you can kind of figure out who they are. And then we have other institutions like the one you work for where the CEO is saying very negative things. But then on the other hand, you're acting as an authorized participant, right? So there's all kinds of confusion in the marketplace as to what this asset class means.

肯，我們也很興奮，因為正如我在準備好的發言中提到的，將會有（聽不清楚）ETF。其他產品將會有短期、長期和槓桿作用，圍繞人們的興趣會有各種不同的表現形式，我們確實處於早期階段，因為你有一個市場，你有一些我們的大客戶我想你很清楚，誰在說，我們實際上不會允許客戶交易這些（聽不清楚）證券。然後我們還有其他處於領先地位的客戶。我不會點名，但你可以猜出他們是誰。然後，我們還有其他機構，例如您工作的機構，其執行長發表了非常負面的言論。但另一方面，您是作為授權參與者行事，對吧？因此，市場上對於這個資產類別的含義存在著各種各樣的困惑。

To bring it full circle, I think what we really need is a coherent regulatory framework in the United States. We have not had that because this current SEC and the legislative body have not been able to get their act together. Once that happens, we will have a regularized system where you have global platforms that provide access to Spot. You'll have ETFs around the world, you'll have futures exchange, you'll have a [custody], you'll have [clearing], you'll have analytics, and it will look and feel an awful lot like prime brokers, deploying basis of the world and hidden road and others. And then you'll have great platforms like [EDX], the one that we started with Citadel and Fidelity and Schwab, which has now recently announced that it's going to go international and whatnot.

為了讓它回到原點，我認為我們真正需要的是美國有一個連貫的監管框架。我們還沒有做到這一點，因為現任 SEC 和立法機構未能協調一致行動。一旦發生這種情況，我們將擁有一個規範化的系統，您可以在其中擁有一個提供 Spot 存取權的全球平台。你將在世界各地擁有 ETF，你將擁有期貨交易所，你將擁有[託管]，你將擁有[清算]，你將擁有分析，而且它看起來和感覺起來都非常像 Prime經紀人，部署世界基礎和隱藏道路等。然後，您將擁有像 [EDX] 這樣的偉大平台，這是我們與 Citadel、Fidelity 和 Schwab 合作創辦的平台，該平台最近宣布將走向國際化等等。

And so you'll have this large regularized asset class that fits very, very well into our model of being across border and multi-asset class, if you will, market-making firm. So we're very, very excited about where we are. In terms of the scope of the opportunity in the addressable market, I think we'll just continue to grow as the asset class becomes more regularized and more institutionalized and you see more institutional money flow into it. And again, I'm very, very excited that we made the investments we did a couple of years ago to be prepared for this moment in time. So I hope that answers your question, but the first couple of weeks have been very exciting within the firm.

因此，你將擁有這個大型的正規化資產類別，它非常非常適合我們的跨國和多資產類別（如果你願意的話）做市公司的模型。所以我們對我們所處的位置感到非常非常興奮。就目標市場的機會範圍而言，我認為隨著資產類別變得更加正規化和製度化，並且您會看到更多的機構資金流入其中，我們將繼續成長。再說一次，我非常非常興奮，我們幾年前所做的投資是為了為這一刻做好準備。所以我希望這能回答你的問題，但公司的前幾週非常令人興奮。

Our next question comes from Patrick Moley of Piper Sandler.

我們的下一個問題來自 Piper Sandler 的帕特里克·莫利。

So I think this quarter, there was obviously a disconnect between what the industry volume and volatility metrics showed in your results. But I think at least in the fourth quarter, if we looked at the 605 reports, it did show that the opportunity in the fourth quarter was the lowest that had been in a while. So I appreciate the comments on the crypto opportunity. But I guess just as we sit here today, I guess my question is, how do you think analysts and investors can do a better job of tracking your overall opportunity quarter-to-quarter?

因此，我認為本季度，結果中顯示的行業數量和波動性指標之間明顯存在脫節。但我認為至少在第四季度，如果我們查看 605 報告，它確實表明第四季度的機會是一段時間以來最低的。所以我很欣賞加密貨幣機會的評論。但我想，就像我們今天坐在這裡一樣，我想我的問題是，您認為分析師和投資者如何更好地按季度追蹤整體機會？

Yes. It's a great question. And obviously, we have continued to frustrate you all and investors for the last 8 years, and it's really a challenge to try to explain the various parts of our business. I mean really the best way to do it is to look at the 605 reports and the 605 metrics. As a footnote, we have been on the forefront of asking for, we actually submitted a request. I think it was 4 years ago for the SEC to update and monetize the 605 reporting to permit exactly this type of granular review and granular understanding of what exactly we see within the subsegment, if you will, of the U.S. equities market. But if you track our 605 reports and look at like what quoted spread was during the period. You'll see that there was meaningful contraction in quoted spread.

是的。這是一個很好的問題。顯然，在過去的 8 年裡，我們一直讓你們和投資者感到沮喪，試圖解釋我們業務的各個部分確實是一個挑戰。我的意思是，最好的方法實際上是查看 605 報告和 605 指標。作為腳註，我們一直走在請求的最前沿，我們實際上提交了請求。我認為SEC 於4 年前更新了605 報告並將其貨幣化，以允許對我們在美國股票市場的細分市場（如果你願意的話）中看到的情況進行這種類型的精細審查和精細理解。但如果您追蹤我們的 605 報告並查看該期間的報價差價。您會發現報價價差出現了有意義的收縮。

The quoted spread effectively is that the theoretical, if you will, maximum opportunity we have to collect bid offer spread and work for 605 orders that come through to Virtu Financial. And you can look at it by broker and you can look at it by wholesalers. So during the quarter, there was meaningful contraction. So this quarter's results, as I made it very clear in my remarks, are really attributable to that performance by our customer Market Making business during the quarter. The noncustomer Market Making business and Virtu Execution Services outperformed metrics and certainly performed in line with your overall expectation. That is the yin and the yang of that business. It tends to be less predictable and certainly not always correlated with marketplace volumes and volatility.

如果您願意的話，有效的報價價差是理論上我們必須收集買賣價差並為透過 Virtu Financial 的 605 份訂單進行工作的最大機會。你可以透過經紀人查看，也可以透過批發商查看。因此，本季出現了有意義的收縮。因此，正如我在演講中明確指出的那樣，本季的業績實際上歸功於我們客戶做市業務在本季度的表現。非客戶做市業務和 Virtu 執行服務的表現優於指標，並且肯定符合您的整體預期。這就是該行業的陰和陽。它往往難以預測，並且並不總是與市場交易量和波動性相關。

The other comment I will make is that you did see within this quarter, if you look at a more granular level at the marketplace TCV, there was a significant increase in sub-dollar stock trading in the quarter, I think it was roughly about 18% in December, for example. And a soft-dollar name that on a particular day, traded over 1 billion shares just anecdotally. That tends to distort overall market volumes. Clearly, those stocks tend to be -- there's less opportunities for spreads dramatically smaller and they tend to be a lot more toxic in the way that they're trained. As a footnote, a lot of those companies, in our view, shouldn't be listed public companies. We've talked to FINRA and the SEC about it.

我要說的另一條評論是，您確實在本季度內看到，如果您更仔細地觀察市場 TCV，就會發現本季度低於美元的股票交易量顯著增加，我認為大約為 18例如， 12 月的%。據稱，一個美元疲軟的名字在某一天的交易量超過 10 億股。這往往會扭曲整體市場交易量。顯然，這些股票往往——利差大幅縮小的機會較少，而且它們的訓練方式往往更具毒性。作為腳註，我們認為，其中許多公司不應該成為上市公司。我們已與 FINRA 和 SEC 討論過此事。

Frankly, I think NASDAQ could do a better job in policing some of those companies that shouldn't be listed public companies and, frankly, should be trading OTC. So I do think that, that distorts some of the markets like us. I'm not using that as an excuse trying to provide a little more granularity, but it really does come back down to within our 605 business, what would be the opportunity expressed as quoted spread at the moment in time when we receive those words. And so that's probably a good way for you guys to kind of slice and dice it. I think it will get better when the 605 reform happens, which should be the first proposal that comes out of the SEC and for what it's worth quoted spread is up over 10% in January thus far from the 605 was. And some of that, I think, is correlated to, as I mentioned in my prepared remarks, some of the excitement and enthusiasm around the Bitcoin ETFs. So wrangling answer, I hope I give you enough clarity around what you all can look at in the future.

坦白說，我認為納斯達克可以更好地監管一些不應該上市的公司，坦白說，應該進行場外交易。所以我確實認為這扭曲了像我們這樣的一些市場。我並不是以此為藉口試圖提供更多的粒度，但它確實回到了我們的 605 業務範圍內，當我們收到這些話時，以報價價差表示的機會是什麼。所以這可能是你們對它進行切片和切塊的好方法。我認為當 605 改革發生時情況會變得更好，這應該是 SEC 提出的第一個提案，值得一月份引用的價差比 605 上漲了 10% 以上。正如我在準備好的演講中提到的，我認為其中一些與圍繞比特幣 ETF 的興奮和熱情有關。所以爭論的答案，我希望我能夠讓你們足夠清楚地了解你們將來可以看到的內容。

Our next question for today comes from Chris Allen of Citi.

我們今天的下一個問題來自花旗銀行的克里斯艾倫。

I wanted to dig in a little bit on the organic growth initiatives. A little surprised to see a sequential decline in the fourth quarter. Crypto activity was much better in 4Q relative to 3Q index options, activity is up sequentially. And you noted the capital markets activity was stronger after I think you had a decent 3Q as well. So maybe you could just give us some color just in terms of the different moving parts where you're seeing -- I mean, obviously, you're seeing tailwinds in crypto and, maybe (inaudible) for options and capital markets activity from here?

我想深入研究一下有機成長計劃。看到第四季的連續下降有點驚訝。相對於第三季的指數選擇權，第四季的加密貨幣活動好得多，活動連續上升。您指出，在我認為第三季也表現不錯之後，資本市場活動更加強勁。所以也許你可以就你所看到的不同的移動部分給我們一些顏色——我的意思是，顯然，你看到了加密貨幣的順風，也許（聽不清楚）這裡的期權和資本市場活動？

Yes. Yes. Very fair question. And obviously, we track the internal metrics with regard to options and ETF block, which were the major and which are and were during the fourth quarter, certainly the major components of our growth initiative. Crypto contributed, but we haven't seen the explosion which obviously, we've seen, as I mentioned, with the launch of the Bitcoin ETF as of January 11, I think it was in this quarter. The short answer is that with regard, particularly to options Market Making, the opportunity in terms of like (inaudible) the spread was per contract declined significantly in the fourth quarter. And so that really explains a lot of what you're seeing in terms of the sequential decline. Internally, we track all of these metrics. And as I said in my prepared remarks, we were very, very happy with the performance of the options desk and the block ETF desk during the quarter.

是的。是的。非常公平的問題。顯然，我們追蹤了有關期權和 ETF 區塊的內部指標，這些指標在第四季度是主要的，現在和過去都是我們成長計畫的主要組成部分。加密貨幣做出了貢獻，但我們還沒有看到爆炸式增長，正如我所提到的，隨著 1 月 11 日比特幣 ETF 的推出，我們已經看到了爆炸式增長，我認為是在本季度。簡而言之，就選擇權做市而言，第四季每份合約的利差（聽不清楚）等機會顯著下降。因此，這確實解釋了您所看到的連續下降的許多情況。在內部，我們追蹤所有這些指標。正如我在準備好的發言中所說，我們對本季選擇權部門和大宗 ETF 部門的表現非常非常滿意。

One of the highlights of the year was our expansion into Asia, where we are now actively and profitable as an options Market Maker in both the Japanese and the Indian markets, and we think there's only an opportunity to grow there. So I get your frustration, which we share around the absolute dollar value, if you will. But in terms of what our market share was in the addressable index products for the options business, it continues to grow and continue to be competitive. It's just, again, those organic growth initiatives are subject to the same market forces, if you roll around volumes, but much more importantly, volatility and effectively quoted spread with regard to the options contracts as all of our other asset classes.

今年的亮點之一是我們向亞洲的擴張，我們現在作為日本和印度市場的期權做市商，積極並盈利，我們認為那裡只有發展的機會。所以我理解你的沮喪，如果你願意的話，我們圍繞著絕對美元價值分享這一點。但就我們在選擇權業務的可尋址指數產品中的市場份額而言，它繼續增長並繼續具有競爭力。再次強調，如果你滾動交易量，這些有機成長舉措會受到相同的市場力量的影響，但更重要的是，與我們所有其他資產類別一樣，期權合約的波動性和有效報價價差也會受到影響。

Our next question for today comes from Dan Fannon of Jefferies.

我們今天的下一個問題來自 Jefferies 的 Dan Fannon。

My question is on kind of expenses and leverage in the model. I think, Joe, you've talked about managing to a comp ratio and then to the dollar amount as the year progressed, starting out with the ratio and then to a dollar amount for the full year. And if I look at the full year, comp is modestly up when revenues were down. And so I just want to understand that I think either going forward in an environment, is this kind of the floor if revenues don't get better? We can see this is kind of a floor for cash compensation and just also just any outlook for expenses as we think about next year more broadly.

我的問題是關於模型中的費用和槓桿的類型。我想，喬，你已經談到了管理補償比率，然後隨著時間的推移控制美元金額，從該比率開始，然後管理全年的美元金額。如果我看一下全年情況，當收入下降時，公司業績略有上升。所以我只是想了解，我認為在一個環境中，如果收入沒有好轉，這就是這種底線嗎？我們可以看到，這是現金補償的下限，也是我們更廣泛地考慮明年的任何支出前景。

Yes. Sure, Dan, it's Joe. I don't know if I call it for, I'd say, I kind of go back to Doug's remarks around the overhaul of our employee base in terms of upgrading the talent and in terms of something like 60% of the people who are here today were not here when we acquired ITG. So we've been upgrading and investing and we're always asked for what are you investing in, in terms of the growth initiatives. I mean this is our investment. And I think if you look at comp going from $315 to $320 in a year like 2023 overall with a significant upgrade in talent, we're happy with that outcome. We don't worry about the ratio of being 26% on a cash basis. So there's no relation around that. I wouldn't expect it to get too high -- too much higher than that over the long term, but I think we are happy where it came out in terms of what it means about the talent that's available will be hired. It's a much better recruiting environment over the past 6 months to a year than it has been in the past few years.

是的。當然，丹，是喬。我不知道我是否這麼稱呼它，我想說，我有點回到道格關於對我們的員工基礎進行徹底改革的言論，在人才升級方面，以及在 60% 的員工方面，當我們收購ITG 時，今天不在這裡。因此，我們一直在升級和投資，我們總是被問到您在成長計劃方面投資了什麼。我的意思是這是我們的投資。我認為，如果你看到在 2023 年這樣的一年裡，薪水從 315 美元上升到 320 美元，而人才顯著升級，我們對這一結果感到滿意。我們並不擔心現金基礎上 26% 的比率。所以這之間沒有任何關係。我不認為它會變得太高——比長期來看高太多，但我認為我們很高興它的出現，因為它對聘用可用的人才意味著什麼。過去六個月到一年的招募環境比過去幾年好得多。

And prospectively, just thinking about the other expenses?

展望未來，只考慮其他費用？

Yes, sure. On other expenses, I mean, communications and data processing, again, we've had some build-outs that we've had to do. We have experienced price increases on market data and infrastructure. And it's up -- I've always guided low to mid-single-digit fixed cost decreases, I think we're right there. So in communications and data processing, again, when you think about the global infrastructure that we manage and the market data plans that we are subject to. Again, I think we're really pleased with this outcome. We actively -- we realized (inaudible) the price increases and investments we need to make. So we actively manage market data, especially to make sure we prune where we can. And then operations and administrative stuff, I think 2022 was low because we have some favorable foreign exchange adjustments in terms of euro, in terms of pound sterling, in terms of the expenses in our non-U.S. subsidiary. So I think that kind of reverted on us in 2023. But I would expect that number to be the run rate going forward for us and admin.

是的，當然。在其他費用方面，我的意思是，通訊和資料處理，我們再次進行了一些必須進行的擴建。我們經歷了市場數據和基礎設施價格上漲。而且它已經上升了——我一直指導固定成本降低到中個位數，我認為我們就在那裡。因此，在通訊和數據處理方面，再次考慮我們管理的全球基礎設施以及我們所遵守的市場數據計劃。再說一遍，我認為我們對這個結果非常滿意。我們積極地——我們意識到（聽不清楚）我們需要進行的價格上漲和投資。因此，我們積極管理市場數據，特別是確保我們盡可能地進行修剪。然後是營運和行政方面的事情，我認為 2022 年的業績較低，因為我們在歐元、英鎊以及我們非美國子公司的費用方面進行了一些有利的外匯調整。所以我認為這種情況會在 2023 年恢復到我們身上。但我預計這個數字將是我們和管理員未來的運行率。

Our next question comes from Alex Blostein of Goldman Sachs.

我們的下一個問題來自高盛的亞歷克斯·布洛斯坦。

I wanted to just dig into the capital structure a little bit and similar to the question I had for you last quarter, I think. But the debt-to-EBITDA continues to creep up a little bit, and to function, obviously, some challenges on the EBITDA front. But it also looks like the debt costs have increased this quarter I guess, with the new swap. So I guess, a, maybe just confirm that and kind of talk through the impact on P&L from that. But also as you think about the uses of cash flow, if interest expense is higher going forward, what are the thoughts about deleveraging and paying down debt versus buybacks?

我想稍微深入研究一下資本結構，我想這與我上個季度向您提出的問題類似。但債務與 EBITDA 比率繼續小幅上升，顯然對 EBITDA 帶來了一些挑戰。但我猜，隨著新的互換，本季的債務成本似乎有所增加。所以我想，也許只是確認這一點，並討論它對損益表的影響。但當您考慮現金流的使用時，如果未來利息支出更高，那麼對於去槓桿化和償還債務與回購有何想法？

Yes. Dan, just to take those in order, the new swap that we put on will be from a P&L standpoint, accretive, right? So we did not do that. From a GAAP P&L standpoint, it will be accretive. All we did was kind of pull forward some of the built-in gain that we had in a very attractive swap instrument that was put on several years ago. That was an enormous benefit to Virtu, and that was going to unwind in a few months. So what we did is we just pulled that forward and used that to reduce debt and the cash interest expense run rate was going to go up anyway, right? So we kind of were able to do an accretive deal, reduce debt by a little bit and then also kind of cap the interest expense going forward. The instrument -- the underlying instrument that we have is our outstanding loan is SOFR plus [300].

是的。丹，按順序排列，我們進行的新掉期將從損益表的角度來看，是增值的，對吧？所以我們沒有這樣做。從公認會計原則損益表的角度來看，這將是增值的。我們所做的只是提前了幾年前推出的一種非常有吸引力的掉期工具所獲得的一些內在收益。這對 Virtu 來說是一個巨大的好處，而且幾個月後就會消失。因此，我們所做的就是將其向前推進並利用它來減少債務，無論如何，現金利息費用運行率都會上升，對吧？因此，我們能夠達成一項增值交易，稍微減少債務，然後也限制未來的利息支出。該工具－我們擁有的基礎工具是我們的未償還貸款，即 SOFR plus [300]。

We expect in a Fed easing environment, and we expect with the loan market coming back, that we will have opportunity to reduce cost on that over the next couple of years. So we're really happy with that. We price this in a way that we anticipate some Fed easing and we anticipate being able to take the spread as well. So yes, the run rate looks like it's a little bit higher that was going to happen anyway. We're going to be able to reduce it and we were able to kind of monetize the swap to trade the debt. So we're very comfortable with the $1.750 billion, and we're happy with the deal we did.

我們預計在聯準會寬鬆的環境下，隨著貸款市場的恢復，我們將有機會在未來幾年內降低成本。所以我們對此感到非常高興。我們的定價方式是我們預期聯準會會放鬆一些政策，我們也預計也能承受利差。所以，是的，運行率看起來會更高一點，無論如何都會發生。我們將能夠減少它，並且我們能夠將掉期貨幣化以交易債務。因此，我們對 17.5 億美元感到非常滿意，並對我們所做的交易感到滿意。

Got you. So no change in terms of the paydown of the loan versus buybacks kind of same trajectory?

明白你了。那麼，貸款償還與回購的軌跡沒有改變嗎？

No, that's right. That's right. We trade it a little bit here with the monetization of swap. We felt that was appropriate. But in terms of the cash flow we generate at different levels of net trading income, we've got that chart here as we do almost every quarter, so you should expect that to continue.

不，沒錯。這是正確的。我們在這裡用掉期貨幣化來進行一點交易。我們認為這是合適的。但就我們在不同淨交易收入水準下產生的現金流而言，我們幾乎每季都會列出該圖表，因此您應該預期這種情況會持續下去。

Our next question comes from Michael Cyprys of Morgan Stanley.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的邁克爾·賽普里斯。

I was hoping you could maybe update us on your fixed income Market Making initiatives. Maybe elaborate how much that's contributing today? How would you sort of size your participation and presence in fixed income markets today? Maybe you could talk about some of the steps that you're taking in corporate credit and treasuries for that to become more meaningful over time versus, say, fixed income ETFs.

我希望您能為我們介紹一下您的固定收益做市計畫的最新情況。或許詳細說明一下今天的貢獻有多大？您目前在固定收益市場的參與和存在規模如何？也許你可以談談你在企業信貸和國債方面採取的一些措施，隨著時間的推移，與固定收益 ETF 相比，這些措施變得更有意義。

Yes, great question. The analogy I would make is the trajectory, I hope, is going to be similar to what we experienced in options. So as I said on prior calls, we've done a lot of, loosely, just call it groundwork around technology and integration with the various RFQ vendors, you have tradeweb market access, Bloomberg, et cetera, Trumid. We've developed the internal ability to quote extensively, and we have an ongoing sales flat distribution efforts in order to give us [rent] categories. I think the thing in terms of like priorities and kind of where I see Virtu being able to add value where I'll be able to see growth in the same way, we did an options where we spent a year or 2 developing the infrastructure and technology. We used internal people. We hired folks from the outside. We're in the process of doing that. And in option, as we went to the big index family.

是的，很好的問題。我要做的類比是，我希望軌跡與我們在選擇權中經歷的相似。正如我在之前的電話會議上所說，我們已經做了很多鬆散的工作，只是圍繞技術和與各種 RFQ 供應商的集成進行了基礎工作，你可以進入 tradeweb 市場，彭博社等等，Trumid。我們已經發展了廣泛報價的內部能力，並且我們正在進行持續的銷售扁平分配工作，以便為我們提供[租賃]類別。我認為，就優先事項而言，我認為 Virtu 能夠增加價值，我也能以同樣的方式看到成長，我們做了一個選擇，我們花了一兩年的時間開發基礎設施，技術。我們使用內部人員。我們從外部聘請了人員。我們正在這樣做。在選擇中，我們選擇了大指數系列。

If I look at the marketplace, and I say to myself, okay, where can Virtu add value, what looks and feels more like what we do, the obvious answer is rates, particularly with what the SEC has done with regard to centralized clearing of treasuries, which is going to come online in 2025, and we already see significant interest (inaudible) gross margin between their Treasury Futures and et cetera. And so that will look more like a Virtu style business plus CUSIPs and certainly, the further electronification of fixed income in general. So I think we're going to focused more on rates initially, while at the same time, we continue to put emphasis on to our credit business, where we have categories and we are actively quoting mostly investment-grade products and whatnot that tie very nicely into our fixed income ETF desk and the (inaudible) creation redemptions that we'll need to do on that debt.

如果我看看市場，我對自己說，好吧，Virtu 在哪裡可以增加價值，什麼看起來和感覺更像我們所做的，顯而易見的答案是利率，特別是 SEC 在集中清算方面所做的事情國債將於2025 年上線，我們已經看到國債期貨等產品之間的毛利率很高（聽不清楚）。因此，這看起來更像是 Virtu 風格的業務加上 CUSIP，當然還有固定收益的進一步電子化。因此，我認為我們最初將更多地關注利率，同時，我們繼續重視我們的信貸業務，我們有類別，我們積極引用主要是投資級產品以及諸如此類的產品。很好地進入我們的固定收益ETF 櫃檯以及我們需要對該債務進行的（聽不清楚）創造贖回。

So very, very early stage in terms of contribution, de minimis at this point. But in the same way, that it was sort of 2019 options where we started to develop the wherewithal, hire folks, build the technology infrastructure that's kind of where we're at right now. And I'm optimistic, as I always am, that we'll see that business take off. I'm particularly enthused about some of the market structure issues or considerations that we've seen in rates again with regard to centralized clearing and prime brokers being more willing to deal with firms of our type and provide leverage and a lot of access. So I think that's just going to become a much more competitive marketplace where the domination, if you will, by the big dealers will continue to weigh nontraditional liquidity providers like the Jane Streets and the Citadels and hopefully the Flow Traders and us can garner significant market share.

就貢獻而言，目前還處於非常非常早期的階段，微乎其微。但同樣，這是 2019 年的選擇，我們開始開發資金、僱用人員、建造技術基礎設施，這就是我們現在所處的位置。我一如既往地樂觀地認為我們會看到業務起飛。我對我們在利率中再次看到的一些市場結構問題或考慮因素特別感興趣，這些問題涉及集中清算和主要經紀商更願意與我們類型的公司打交道並提供槓桿和大量准入。因此，我認為這將成為一個競爭更加激烈的市場，如果你願意的話，大交易商的主導地位將繼續影響簡街和城堡等非傳統流動性提供者，希望流量交易者和我們能夠獲得重要的市場分享。

So again, it's a growth initiative for us, it's a de minimis contribution in 2023. Will it be meaningful in 2024, probably not really meaningful, given kind of the competitive mix of the market and the size of the rest of the firm, but it's certainly an investment that we're very focused on, Michael. So thank you for the question.

再說一次，這對我們來說是一項成長舉措，是 2023 年的微不足道的貢獻。考慮到市場的競爭組合和公司其他部門的規模，它在 2024 年是否有意義，可能並沒有真正意義，但是這當然是我們非常關注的一項投資，麥可。謝謝你的提問。

We have another question from Craig Siegenthaler of Bank of America.

美國銀行的克雷格·西根塔勒向我們提出了另一個問題。

Operator, maybe he dropped off.

接線員，也許他已經下車了。

My apologies. (Operator Instructions)

我很抱歉。 （操作員說明）

Okay. Well, it sounds like we have no further questions. Obviously, Craig, if you do have a question, you can follow up with me, Joe or Andrew after the call. I want to thank everybody for joining us today, and we look forward to speaking with you in -- some point in mid-April. Thank you, everybody. Have a great day.

好的。嗯，聽起來我們沒有其他問題了。顯然，克雷格，如果您確實有疑問，可以在通話後與我、喬或安德魯聯繫。我要感謝大家今天加入我們，我們期待在四月中旬的某個時候與你們交談。謝謝大家。祝你有美好的一天。

Thank you for joining today's call. You may now disconnect your lines.

感謝您參加今天的電話會議。現在您可以斷開線路。