Vertex Inc (VERX) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good day and welcome to the Vertex Inc third-quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please note that this conference is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Joe Crivelli, Vice President, Investor Relations. Thank you and over to you.

各位好，歡迎參加 Vertex Inc 2025 年第三季財報電話會議。（操作員說明）請注意，本次會議正在錄音。現在我將把會議交給投資者關係副總裁喬·克里維利。謝謝，接下來就交給你了。

Hello and thanks for joining us to discuss Vertex's third-quarter results. David Destefano, our President and CEO; and John Schwab , our CFO, are also with us today.

您好，感謝您參加我們關於Vertex第三季業績的討論。我們的總裁兼執行長大衛·德斯特凡諾和財務長約翰·施瓦布今天也來到了現場。

During this call, we may make forward-looking statements about expected future results. Actual results may differ due to risks and uncertainties. These risks and uncertainties are described in our filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

在本次電話會議中，我們可能會對預期的未來業績做出前瞻性陳述。實際結果可能因風險和不確定因素而有所不同。這些風險和不確定性已在我們提交給美國證券交易委員會的文件中進行了描述。

Our remarks today will also include references to non-GAAP metrics. A reconciliation of these metrics to GAAP is also provided in today's press release. This call is being recorded and will be available for replay on our investor relations website. I'll now turn the call over to David.

我們今天的演講也將提及非GAAP指標。今天的新聞稿中也提供了這些指標與 GAAP 的核對錶。本次電話會議正在錄音，錄音結束後將在我們的投資者關係網站上提供回放。現在我將把電話交給大衛。

Welcome everyone, and thank you for joining us. Our third-quarter performance demonstrated continued momentum in core strategic areas while managing specific market and customer headwinds. The strength of our strategy was evident in our strong cloud revenue growth, the increased margin leverage driven by automation initiatives, and strong cash flow performance.

歡迎各位，感謝你們的參與。第三季業績表明，我們在核心策略領域保持了持續成長勢頭，同時有效應對了特定的市場和客戶方面的不利因素。我們的策略優勢體現在強勁的雲端收入成長、自動化措施帶來的利潤率提升以及強勁的現金流表現。

We also saw accelerating traction in e-invoicing and improved SAP activity. However, offsetting this was the persistence of lower than typical growth from existing customer entitlements as previously discussed in our second-quarter earnings call. In addition, The bankruptcy of three large enterprise customers as well as several accelerated migrations to our new cloud platform impacted customer retention metrics.

我們也看到電子發票的使用率迅速上升，SAP 活動也有所改善。然而，正如我們在第二季財報電話會議上所討論的那樣，現有客戶權益的成長持續低於正常水平，抵消了上述成長。此外，三家大型企業客戶的破產以及幾家公司加速遷移到我們的新雲端平台，都對客戶留存率指標產生了影響。

I will highlight the specifics of all of this and their impact on certain metrics in a moment. Our revenue results for the third-quarter were in line with our guidance, while adjusted EBITDA exceeded expectations. Revenue was $192.1 million up 12.7% year-over-year. Subscription revenue grew 12.7%, and cloud revenue growth was 29.6%. Adjusted EBITDA was a record $43.5 million exceeding the high end of our guidance by $2.5 million and representing an EBITDA margin of 22.6% and free cash flow was very strong at $30.2 million in the third-quarter.

稍後我會詳細介紹所有這些細節及其對某些指標的影響。第三季營收業績符合預期，調整後 EBITDA 超乎預期。營收達1.921億美元，年增12.7%。訂閱收入成長了 12.7%，雲端收入成長了 29.6%。經過調整的 EBITDA 達到創紀錄的 4,350 萬美元，比我們預期的上限高出 250 萬美元，EBITDA 利潤率為 22.6%，第三季自由現金流非常強勁，達到 3,020 萬美元。

In addition, annual recurring revenue, or ARR grew 12.4% to $648.2 million. Average annual revenue per customer increased 12.4% year-over-year to $133,000. Scaled customer count grew 14%. Gross revenue retention or GRR remained at 95% in the third-quarter within our targeted best in class range of 94% to 96%. And net revenue retention or NRR decreased to 107%, down one point from the second-quarter.

此外，年度經常性收入（ARR）成長了 12.4%，達到 6.482 億美元。每位客戶的平均年度收入年增 12.4%，達到 133,000 美元。客戶數量規模增加了 14%。第三季總營收留存率 (GRR) 維持在 95%，在我們設定的 94% 至 96% 的最佳目標範圍內。淨收入留存率（NRR）下降至 107%，較第二季下降 1 個百分點。

First and foremost, I want to provide more specific details into the items that impacted customer retention metrics. As we have discussed each quarter, we experience moderate customer turnover at the very low end of our customer base and discontinuation of legacy product usage by customers who have migrated to our new cloud solutions. In Q3, we experienced an unusual impact in these areas.

首先，我想更具體地說明影響顧客留存率指標的因素。正如我們每季所討論的那樣，我們客戶群中非常低端的客戶流失率適中，而且一些遷移到我們新的雲端解決方案的客戶停止使用舊產品。第三季度，這些領域受到了異常的影響。

Certain enterprise customers, including Big Lots, Party City, and JOANN Fabrics canceled licenses due to bankruptcy. This impacted retention metrics by approximately $2 million. Additionally, we had three large customers who had previously migrated to our new cloud platform, complete their own internal legacy ERP migrations faster than previously anticipated, which enabled them to downsize that portion of their subscription fees with us. This impacted NRR by another $2 million-plus.

由於破產，包括 Big Lots、Party City 和 JOANN Fabrics 在內的一些企業客戶取消了許可證。這導致客戶留存率下降了約 200 萬美元。此外，我們還有三位大客戶，他們之前已經遷移到我們的新雲端平台，並且比預期更快地完成了他們自己的內部傳統 ERP 遷移，這使得他們能夠減少在我們這裡支付的這部分訂閱費用。這又使 NRR 減少了 200 多萬美元。

Beyond these anomalies, management was encouraged by the progress achieved across several of our ongoing growth initiatives. On e-invoicing, ecosio had a strong quarter and contributed revenue of $4.1 million. This is an increase of approximately 30% from their run rate in last year's third-quarter when we acquired the company.

除了這些異常情況之外，管理層對我們正在進行的幾項成長計劃所取得的進展感到鼓舞。在電子發票方面，ecosio 表現強勁，貢獻了 410 萬美元的收入。這比我們去年第三季收購該公司時的營運水準成長了約 30%。

We have landed over 100 customers since declaring general availability in late March. All fit nicely into our expected land and expand experience. Additionally, we are seeing success with our integrated product strategy, which includes both e-invoicing and value-added tax compliance in one platform with full end to end documentation and audit support.

自三月下旬宣布全面上市以來，我們已經吸引了超過 100 位客戶。一切都與我們預期的土地和擴展經驗完美契合。此外，我們的一體化產品策略也取得了成功，該策略在一個平台上同時提供電子發票和增值稅合規性，並提供完整的端到端文件和審計支援。

In the third-quarter, we continue to see an influx of new customers driven by upcoming e-invoice mandates, including Belgium, France, and Germany, which we expect to accelerate as those actual deadlines approach. Ongoing cloud migrations with ERP vendors, including our partners SAP and Oracle remain solid with pipeline build improvements appearing.

第三季度，我們繼續看到即將實施的電子發票強制令推動的新客戶湧入，包括比利時、法國和德國，我們預計隨著這些實際截止日期的臨近，這一趨勢將會加速。與包括我們的合作夥伴 SAP 和 Oracle 在內的 ERP 供應商的持續雲端遷移工作依然穩固，管線建置方面也出現了改善。

And the expense control initiatives we discussed last quarter are driving improving earnings leverage as demonstrated by our strong adjusted EBITDA and free cash flow results this quarter. This quarter's progress on our long-term growth initiatives validates. We still have significant greenfield opportunity with enterprise customers that are currently using legacy homegrown or manual solutions for indirect tax compliance and are migrating to the cloud.

我們上季度討論的費用控制措施正在推動獲利槓桿率的提高，本季我們強勁的調整後 EBITDA 和自由現金流業績就證明了這一點。本季我們在長期成長計畫方面取得的進展證明了這一點。我們仍然有許多新的發展機會，尤其是在那些目前使用傳統自研或手動解決方案進行間接稅合規，並且正在遷移到雲端的企業客戶方面。

We continue to believe we have approximately 3x opportunity with our existing install base, which we will penetrate by expanding usage throughout their organizations or by cross-selling additional products, and we have major tailwinds in front of us from the upcoming e-invoicing mandates in major countries like Belgium, France, and Germany.

我們仍然相信，憑藉我們現有的安裝基礎，我們有大約 3 倍的機會，我們將透過擴大其在組織內的使用範圍或交叉銷售其他產品來滲透這個群體，而且比利時、法國和德國等主要國家即將實施的電子發票強制令也將為我們帶來巨大的利好。

Demonstrating our confidence in Vertex's long-term growth opportunity today, we announced that the Board of Directors has authorized the repurchase of up to $150 million of Vertex shares in the open market. Coupled with our progress on several growth areas, I'm excited with the number of AI initiatives the team advanced in the quarter.

為了展現我們對 Vertex 長期成長機會的信心，我們今天宣布，董事會已授權在公開市場上回購超過 1.5 億美元的 Vertex 股票。結合我們在多個成長領域的進展，我對團隊在本季推進的人工智慧專案數量感到興奮。

We are executing on three fronts to commercialize AI, which are focused on enabling new logo wins and wallet expansion with existing customers, driving enhanced customer retention through targeted ecosystem interoperability and participating in new segments ripe for disruption.

我們正在三個方面推動人工智慧的商業化，重點是贏得新客戶並擴大現有客戶的錢包，透過有針對性的生態系統互通性提高客戶留存率，以及參與有顛覆性的新領域。

We are seeing ongoing traction with our smart categorization offering, and last week at our annual customer conference, we highlighted several new agenta capabilities on our cloud platform. These are focused on workflow capabilities and data management. The customer conference was our largest yet with strong attendance from Alliance and tech partners highlighting the energy around our customer segment and market opportunity and the AI sessions were clearly the most oversubscribed sessions by attendees.

我們的智慧分類產品持續受到歡迎，上週在我們的年度客戶大會上，我們重點介紹了雲端平台上的幾項新的代理功能。這些主要側重於工作流程功能和資料管理。客戶大會是我們迄今為止規模最大的一次，聯盟和技術合作夥伴的積極參與凸顯了我們客戶群和市場機會的活力，而人工智慧會議顯然是與會者報名最多的會議。

Additionally, at exchange, we shared some of the transformational work we are doing, including our pioneering of the first ever agent to agent tax configuration capability for Microsoft Dynamics 365 finance and supply chain. This is another step forward in creating a differentiated experience for Microsoft customers, bringing enterprise innovation to the mid-market.

此外，在交流會上，我們分享了我們正在進行的一些變革性工作，包括我們率先為 Microsoft Dynamics 365 財務和供應鏈開發了首個代理對代理稅務配置功能。這是為微軟客戶創造差異化體驗的另一個舉措，將企業級創新帶入中階市場。

In October, we also launched Kintsugi powered by Vertex, which enables SMBs to automate key compliance functions while providing real-time dashboards for jurisdictional liability and exposure tracking. Powered by the Vertex tax engine, it delivers the same trusted accuracy and global content that enterprises rely on. In an AI native experience built for agility and scale, this is just the first of many such new products and new initiatives that we expect to launch in partnership with Kintsugi.

10 月，我們還推出了由 Vertex 提供支援的 Kintsugi，它使中小企業能夠自動執行關鍵的合規功能，同時提供用於追蹤管轄權和風險敞口的即時儀表板。它採用 Vertex 稅務引擎，提供企業所依賴的同樣值得信賴的準確性和全球內容。在專為敏捷性和規模化而打造的 AI 原生體驗中，這只是我們與 Kintsugi 合作推出的眾多新產品和新舉措中的第一個。

Exchange was also a clear reminder of the stark difference in tax compliance precision requirements between the enterprise customer and the F&B segment where good enough is sufficient. These complex global multinational enterprises remain very cautious about how AI is being considered in their departments due to inherent limitations.

這次交流也清楚地表明，企業客戶和餐飲業在稅務合規精確度要求方面存在著顯著差異，在餐飲業，只要「夠好」就足夠了。由於人工智慧本身的局限性，這些複雜的全球跨國企業對於如何在其部門中應用人工智慧仍然非常謹慎。

Several points were clear from our discussions there. Enterprise customers know that our solutions operate in speed and on a scale they must have to support their business embedded in the workflow of the critical order to cash process.

從我們當時的討論中，有幾點很明確。企業客戶都知道，我們的解決方案能夠以他們所需的速度和規模運行，以支援其業務融入關鍵的訂單到收款流程中。

Our implementations are complex. It's not uncommon for Vertex to be connected to multiple instances of SAP, in instances of Oracle in another division, a legacy ERP solution and still another, as well as multiple billing and CRM solutions, and we are providing tax answers across that architecture with no latency and enterprise level accuracy.

我們的實施方案很複雜。Vertex 連接到多個 SAP 實例、另一個部門的 Oracle 實例、一個舊版 ERP 解決方案以及另一個解決方案，以及多個計費和 CRM 解決方案，這種情況並不少見。我們能夠跨越這種架構提供稅務解決方案，且無延遲，並達到企業級準確度。

These enterprise customers cannot afford for a single customer to experience transaction delays as an AI engine spins through scenarios to deliver a tax answer. They rely on the accuracy Vertex provides in every transaction.

這些企業客戶無法承受因人工智慧引擎運行各種場景以提供稅務答案而導致單一客戶交易延遲的情況。他們依賴Vertex在每筆交易中提供的準確性。

Enterprise customers are audited constantly by taxing authorities that cannot afford any risk that a probabilistic AI-driven outcome subject to hallucinations delivers an inaccurate tax answer, and they need accountable traceability for tax decisions they take in their compliance.

企業客戶經常受到稅務機關的審計，稅務機關無法承受任何風險，因為機率性的 AI 驅動結果可能會產生幻覺，從而導致稅務答案不準確。他們需要對其在合規過程中做出的稅務決策進行可追溯的問責。

In addition, we estimate that as many as 70% of the tax rules in our content database are not easily mined by AI-driven web scraping. In the United States, below the level of state and county, tax rules for municipalities and tax overlay districts are hard to curate. Sometimes embedded in meeting minutes that are not easily sourced on the internet, and in some districts, finding the latest tax rules requires a person to person phone call, and all of this requires human judgment and professional curation to codify into the tax content database.

此外，我們估計，我們內容資料庫中多達 70% 的稅收規則無法透過人工智慧驅動的網路爬蟲輕鬆挖掘。在美國，州和縣以下層級的市政當局和稅收疊加區的稅收規則很難制定。有時，最新的稅務規定會嵌入到不易在網路上找到的會議記錄中；在某些地區，尋找最新的稅務規定需要親自打電話詢問；所有這些都需要人工判斷和專業整理才能編入稅務內容資料庫。

In addition, these tax rules are constantly changing at a historic pace, and this is likely to get worse with reduction in federal funding to states as a result of the recently approved tax legislation. I'll now highlight a few business wins.

此外，這些稅收規則正以前所未有的速度不斷變化，而且由於最近批准的稅收立法導致聯邦政府對各州的撥款減少，這種情況可能會變得更糟。接下來我將重點介紹幾個商業上的成功案例。

We saw improved momentum in the SAP ecosystem this quarter driven by ECC to S/4HANA conversions . These transitions created meaningful opportunities for Vertex to expand our footprint with existing customers and win new logos.

本季度，受ECC到S/4HANA轉換的推動，SAP生態系統的發展動能有所增強。。這些轉變為 Vertex 創造了有意義的機會，使我們能夠擴大與現有客戶的合作範圍，並贏得新的客戶。

In the third-quarter, we partner with an existing specialty retail customer on a major ECC to S/4HANA transformation. As part of this initiative, the customer advanced their plan to standardize on Vertex, transitioning additional tax functions from a competitor to our cloud platform. This expansion resulted in mid-sixth figure of new revenue and reinforces our role as a strategic partner in their modernization journey.

第三季度，我們與現有的專業零售客戶合作，進行從 ECC 到 S/4HANA 的重大轉型。作為這項計劃的一部分，客戶推進了其在 Vertex 上實現標準化的計劃，將額外的稅務功能從競爭對手轉移到我們的雲端平台。此次擴張帶來了六位數的新收入，並鞏固了我們作為其現代化轉型過程中策略夥伴的地位。

Another long standing customer in the manufacturing industry launched a company-wide transformation project this year, including a migration from ECC to S/4HANA. As part of their transformation, the customer added VAT calculation across its operating regions and added several SAP tools resulting in mid six figures of new revenue for Vertex. This is an example of how our business grows during migration.

另一家製造業的長期客戶今年啟動了一項全公司範圍的轉型項目，其中包括從 ECC 遷移到 S/4HANA。作為轉型的一部分，客戶在其營運區域內增加了增值稅計算，並增加了幾個 SAP 工具，從而為 Vertex 帶來了六位數的新收入。這是我們的業務在遷移過程中如何發展的一個例子。

In addition to receiving a significant like for like increase, many customers use this as an opportunity to license additional capabilities. An existing customer that is a leading North American energy services company expanded with Vertex to cover two companies it recently acquired. This customer, which is currently operating on a legacy Oracle ERP solution, selected our private cloud solution and will eventually migrate its entire infrastructure to the cloud as part of an Oracle cloud transformation. This customer expansion drove low six figures of new revenue.

除了獲得顯著的同類產品價格上漲外，許多客戶還藉此機會購買額外的功能許可。一家北美領先的能源服務公司現有客戶透過與 Vertex 合作，擴展了服務範圍，涵蓋了該公司最近收購的兩家公司。這位客戶目前使用的是傳統的 Oracle ERP 解決方案，他們選擇了我們的私有雲解決方案，並最終將整個基礎設施遷移到雲端，作為 Oracle 雲端轉型的一部分。客戶群的擴張帶來了六位數的新收入。

While our AI-based smart categorization product is still in limited availability, we added a major grocery store chain to our customer base for this new product. The customer staff was struggling with the labor intensive nature of tax categorization in its delivery business and is excited about the ability to automate this process. This cross sell resulted in six figures of new revenue for Vertex. This gives you an idea of the magnitude of sales opportunities with this AI-driven application. At present we are focusing on the retail industry, hence the new business win, but over time we will expand our capabilities to cover other industries.

雖然我們基於人工智慧的智慧分類產品目前仍處於有限供應階段，但我們已經為這款新產品新增了一家大型連鎖超市作為我們的客戶群。客戶員工一直苦於配送業務中繁瑣的稅務分類工作，因此對實現此流程的自動化感到非常興奮。這次交叉銷售為Vertex帶來了六位數的新收入。這讓您對這款由人工智慧驅動的應用程式所帶來的銷售機會的大小有了大致的了解。目前我們專注於零售業，因此贏得了這項新業務，但隨著時間的推移，我們將擴大我們的能力，並覆蓋其他行業。

A leading aerospace and defense contractor recently selected Vertex as its preferred indirect tax solution for one of its consumer facing subsidiaries, fully displacing a competitor across its global operations, including Brazil and India. This competitive win underscores the strength of Vertex's tax content coverage in complex jurisdictions and is expected to generate mid-six-figure annual revenue.

一家領先的航空航太和國防承包商最近選擇 Vertex 作為其面向消費者的子公司的首選間接稅解決方案，從而在其全球業務（包括巴西和印度）中完全取代了競爭對手。這場競爭性勝利凸顯了 Vertex 在複雜司法管轄區稅務內容覆蓋方面的實力，預計每年將產生六位數的中等收入。

In addition, a global pharmaceutical company selected Vertex as its first external indirect tax provider to support its S400 transformation. This new logo win was driven by Vertex's proven global tax coverage, deep expertise in the pharmaceutical industry, and ability to manage complex requirements. This new business win, which was brought to us by our partner EY, will also drive mid six figures of new revenue for Vertex.

此外，一家全球製藥公司選擇 Vertex 作為其首個外部間接稅提供商，以支援其 S400 轉型。Vertex之所以能贏得這個新標誌，是因為它擁有成熟的全球稅務覆蓋能力、深厚的製藥行業專業知識以及管理複雜需求的能力。這項由我們的合作夥伴安永帶來的新業務，也將為 Vertex 帶來六位數的新收入。

During the cloud transformation initiative, a global marketing services company replaced an incumbent competitor with Vertex, citing concerns about scalability and infrastructure flexibility. The customer valued Vertex's agnostic deployment model, which aligned with the CIO's preference for private cloud, an option the competitor did not support. This strategic win sourced through our partner Grant Thornton represents a six-figure new business opportunity.

在雲端轉型計畫期間，一家全球行銷服務公司用 Vertex 取代了原有的競爭對手，理由是擔心可擴展性和基礎設施靈活性。客戶非常欣賞 Vertex 的平台無關部署模式，這與資訊長對私有雲的偏好相符，而競爭對手並不支援私有雲。這場策略性勝利是透過我們的合作夥伴 Grant Thornton 獲得的，代表著一個價值六位數的新商機。

Finally, during the quarter, we want an e-invoicing opportunity with a global real estate investment trust, which is preparing for upcoming mandates in Belgium, France, and Germany. We will also cover Italy and Spain for this customer. Of note, this customer was driving mid six figures of revenue for Vertex prior to this new business win. E-invoicing will drive high five figures of new revenue. Before I turn the call to John, let me address my succession that we announced in October.

最後，在本季度，我們希望與全球房地產投資信託基金合作開展電子發票業務，該基金正在為即將到來的比利時、法國和德國的項目做準備。我們也將為這位客戶提供義大利和西班牙的服務。值得注意的是，在贏得這項新業務之前，這位客戶每年為 Vertex 帶來六位數的收入。電子發票將帶來數位數的新增收入。在我將電話轉給約翰之前，請允許我談談我們在十月宣布的繼任計劃。

I approached the Board of Directors in early 2025 and told them of my plan to retire after 26 years at Vertex. However, I did not set a specific timeline as we wanted to make sure we had the right candidate in place. We launched a comprehensive search process led by renowned management recruiting firm Spencer Stewart and considered both internal and external candidates. Ultimately we found an exceptional new CEO in Chris Young, who will officially join the company next week.

2025年初，我與董事會接洽，告訴他們我計劃在Vertex工作26年後退休。但是，我沒有設定具體的時間表，因為我們想確保找到合適的候選人。我們啟動了由知名管理人才招募公司 Spencer Stewart 牽頭的全面搜尋流程，並考慮了內部和外部候選人。最終，我們找到了傑出的新任執行長克里斯楊，他將於下週正式加入公司。

Our search surfaced outstanding candidates from top companies around the world, but Chris stood out as the clear choice. His strategic vision, experiencing our ecosystem through his prior role as Executive Vice President of business development at Microsoft, and deep familiarity with global enterprises all point to his ability to drive growth and value creation. What truly sets Chris apart, however, is his commitment to fostering a positive performance-driven culture grounded in respect for people, a quality that aligns closely with our values and leadership philosophy.

我們的搜尋發現了來自世界各地頂尖公司的優秀候選人，但克里斯脫穎而出，成為最佳人選。他具有策略眼光，曾擔任微軟業務發展執行副總裁，對我們的生態系統有著深刻的了解，並且對全球企業有著深入的認識，這些都顯示他有能力推動成長和創造價值。然而，真正讓克里斯與眾不同的是，他致力於培養一種以尊重人為基礎、以績效為導向的正向文化，這種特質與我們的價值觀和領導理念非常契合。

In addition, Chris was at the vanguard of Microsoft's push into AI and helped shape Microsoft's investment agenda in artificial intelligence and other frontier technologies. His forward thinking perspective in that regard will be extremely valuable to Vertex and our shareholders. As for me, I'm not going anywhere. I'm merely transitioning. I will stay on as non-executive chairperson of the board, where I will bring all my energy in the months ahead to support Chris in his transition.

此外，克里斯是微軟進軍人工智慧領域的先鋒人物，並協助制定了微軟在人工智慧和其他尖端技術領域的投資計畫。他在這方面的前瞻性觀點對Vertex和我們的股東來說將非常有價值。至於我，我哪裡也不去。我只是在經歷轉型期。我將繼續擔任董事會非執行主席，在接下來的幾個月裡，我將全力以赴地支持克里斯完成過渡。

John will now take you through the financials.

接下來，約翰將帶你了解財務狀況。

Thanks, David, and good morning everyone. I'll now review our third-quarter financial results and provide guidance for the fourth-quarter and full year of 2025. In the third-quarter, revenue was $192.1 million up 12.7% year-over-year. Our subscription revenue increased 12.7% to $164.8 million. Services revenue grew at 12.8% to $27.3 million and our cloud revenue was $92 million in the third-quarter of 29.6%. Annual recurring revenue, or ARR was $648.2 million at quarter end, up 12.4% year-over-year. Our net revenue retention or NRR was 107% compared to 108% in the second-quarter. This was impacted in the third-quarter by factors David noted in his prepared remarks.

謝謝你，大衛，大家早安。接下來，我將回顧我們第三季的財務業績，並對2025年第四季和全年業績進行展望。第三季營收為 1.921 億美元，年增 12.7%。我們的訂閱收入成長了12.7%，達到1.648億美元。服務收入成長 12.8% 至 2,730 萬美元，第三季雲端收入為 9,200 萬美元，成長 29.6%。截至季末，年度經常性收入（ARR）為 6.482 億美元，年增 12.4%。我們的淨收入留存率（NRR）為 107%，而第二季為 108%。第三季度，這種情況受到了戴維在事先準備好的發言稿中提到的一些因素的影響。

Gross revenue retention or GRR remained at 95% at quarter end within our targeted range of 94% to 96%. Our average annual revenue per customer, or AARPC was $133,484 up 12.4%. For the remainder of the income statement discussion, I will be referring to non-GAAP metrics. These non-GAAP metrics are reconciled to GAAP in this morning's earnings press release.

季末總營收留存率 (GRR) 維持在 95%，在我們設定的 94% 至 96% 的目標範圍內。我們的平均每位客戶年度收入（AARPC）為 133,484 美元，成長了 12.4%。在接下來的損益表討論中，我將使用非GAAP指標。這些非GAAP指標已在今天早上的盈利新聞稿中與GAAP進行了核對。

Gross profit for the third-quarter was $142 million and gross margin was 73.9%. This compares with the gross profit of $126.2 million and a 74% gross margin in the same period last year. Gross margin on subscription software revenue was 81.4% compared to 80.5% in last year's third-quarter and 83.2% in the second-quarter of 2025. And gross margin on services revenue was 28.8% compared to 35% in last year's third-quarter and 33.1% in the second-quarter of 2025. The lower margin was due to investments in automation that are expected to drive higher margins into the future.

第三季毛利為 1.42 億美元，毛利率為 73.9%。相較之下，去年同期毛利為 1.262 億美元，毛利率為 74%。訂閱軟體收入的毛利率為 81.4%，而去年第三季為 80.5%，2025 年第二季為 83.2%。服務收入毛利率為 28.8%，而去年第三季為 35%，2025 年第二季為 33.1%。利潤率下降是由於對自動化領域的投資，預計未來這些投資將推動利潤率上升。

Turning to operating expenses. In the third-quarter, research and development expense was $16.8 million compared to $12.9 million last year, with capitalized software spend included, R&D spend was $40.8 million for the quarter, which represents 21.2% of revenue. Selling and marketing expense was $43.4 million or 22.6% of total revenues, an increase of $5 million and approximately 12.9% from the prior year period, and general administrative expense was $38.4 million up $2.6 million from last year.

接下來談談營運費用。第三季研發支出為 1,680 萬美元，去年同期為 1,290 萬美元；若計入資本化的軟體支出，該季度研發支出為 4,080 萬美元，佔營收的 21.2%。銷售和行銷費用為 4,340 萬美元，佔總收入的 22.6%，比去年同期增加了 500 萬美元，增幅約為 12.9%；一般管理費用為 3,840 萬美元，比上年增加了 260 萬美元。

Adjusted EBITDA was $43.5 million up 12.7% compared to 38.6% for the same period last year and exceeding our quarterly guidance. This represents an adjusted EBITDA margin of 22.6%. As a reminder, adjusted EBITDA margins are being impacted in 2025 by accelerated investments to support the two acquisitions we made in 2024 related to e-invoicing and artificial intelligence.

調整後的 EBITDA 為 4,350 萬美元，比去年同期成長 12.7%，而去年同期成長 38.6%，超過了我們季度的預期。這相當於調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率為 22.6%。提醒各位，由於我們在 2024 年進行了兩項與電子發票和人工智慧相關的收購，需要加速投資以支持這兩項收購，因此 2025 年調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率將受到影響。

On the former, we are investing in ecosio which we acquired in August 2024 to accelerate country coverage and broaden our go to market infrastructure. This represents an investment of approximately $16 million to $20 million in 2025. On the latter, we're investing $10 million to $12 million this year to productize our smart categorization product and adopt AI technologies in other areas of the business.

在前者方面，我們正在投資 ecosio，該公司是我們於 2024 年 8 月收購的，目的是加快國家覆蓋範圍並擴大我們的市場推廣基礎設施。這相當於到 2025 年將投資約 1,600 萬至 2,000 萬美元。在後者方面，我們今年將投資 1,000 萬至 1,200 萬美元，以實現智慧分類產品的產品化，並在業務的其他領域採用人工智慧技術。

In the third-quarter, operating cash flow was $62.5 million and free cash flow was $30.2 million. We ended the third-quarter with over $313.5 million in unrestricted cash and equivalents and $300 million of unused availability under our line of credit. As David mentioned, the board has authorized the share repurchase of up to $150 million.

第三季度，營運現金流為 6,250 萬美元，自由現金流為 3,020 萬美元。第三季末，我們擁有超過 3.135 億美元的非限制性現金及等價物，以及 3 億美元的未使用信貸額度。正如大衛所提到的，董事會已批准回購高達 1.5 億美元的股票。

Now turning to guidance. Reflecting the factors mentioned earlier, including customer bankruptcies and faster than expected legacy platform migrations, we now expect fourth-quarter revenues of $192 million to $196 million and for the fourth-quarter we expect adjusted EBITDA of $40 million to $42 million reflecting an adjusted EBITDA margin of 21.1% at the midpoint. For the full year of 2025, we now expect revenues of $745.7 million to $749.7 million. Cloud revenue growth of 28%. And EBITDA of $159 million to $161 million reflecting a margin of 21.4% at the midpoint.

現在進入指導環節。考慮到前面提到的因素，包括客戶破產和比預期更快的傳統平台遷移，我們現在預計第四季度營收為 1.92 億美元至 1.96 億美元，第四季度調整後 EBITDA 為 4,000 萬美元至 4,200 萬美元，調整後 EBITDA 利潤率中位數為 21.1%。我們現在預計 2025 年全年營收為 7.457 億美元至 7.497 億美元。雲端收入成長28%。EBITDA 為 1.59 億美元至 1.61 億美元，中間值為 21.4%。

David will now make some closing comments before we open up for Q&A. David ?

在進入問答環節之前，David 將作一些總結性發言。大衛？

Thanks, John. I've been in this industry for 26 years. I've seen it go through countless economic, regulatory, and technological cycles. The enterprise segment customer has remained very consistent in their approach to solving their needs for effective tax compliance due to the mission critical nature of their role. They don't buy on hype. They seek proof. They are focused on mitigating risk and delivering accuracy.

謝謝你，約翰。我從事這個行業已經26年了。我見證了它經歷無數次的經濟、監管和技術週期。由於企業客戶在稅務合規方面扮演著至關重要的角色，因此他們在解決稅務合規需求方面一直保持著非常一致的態度。他們不會盲目跟風。他們尋求證據。他們專注於降低風險和提高準確性。

They make purchase decisions for the long-term based on value. So while we have noticed some very specific headwinds to short-term performance in the past two quarters, we remain confident that the fundamental drivers for our long-term growth are strong and growing, and that Vertex will benefit from them with improved performance as we move into 2026 and beyond.

他們基於價值做出長期購買決策。因此，儘管我們在過去兩個季度中註意到一些對短期業績非常具體的不利因素，但我們仍然相信，我們長期成長的基本驅動因素是強勁且不斷成長的，Vertex 將受益於這些驅動因素，並在 2026 年及以後取得更好的業績。

My recent experience at our customer conference reinforced my belief in the strength of our alliance partner relationships as we continue to lean into our partner first strategy. Our leadership position in the enterprise segment certainly requires continued investment given the pace of accelerating regulatory and technological changes. And in doing so we are positioned to reward our investors as a result.

我最近參加的客戶大會的經歷，更加堅定了我對我們聯盟夥伴關係的信心，我們將繼續堅持以合作夥伴為先的策略。鑑於監管和技術變革的步伐不斷加快，我們在企業領域的領先地位無疑需要持續投資。這樣做，我們就能夠為投資者帶來回報。

It is this confidence that is the primary driver for our board's authorization of the $150 million stock buyback program announced today. I'm thrilled to now have Chris Young join our team and work side by side with him in our respective roles to ensure the company realizes the full potential of our opportunities and delivers strong financial performance for years to come.

正是這種信心促使董事會批准了今天宣布的1.5億美元股票回購計畫。我很高興克里斯楊加入我們的團隊，我們將在各自的崗位上與他並肩工作，確保公司充分發揮機遇的潛力，並在未來幾年取得強勁的財務業績。

With that, we will take your questions.

接下來，我們將回答您的問題。

Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. (Operator Instructions)

謝謝。現在開始問答環節。（操作說明）

Joshua Rieilly, Needham.

約書亞·裡利，尼德姆。

My questions, wanted to get your latest thoughts on how you expect the SAP ERP cycle to kind of play out from here. Clearly there's a lot of companies that still need to migrate to Sorna to hit the 2027 deadline. Seems like that's a bit of a stretch. Curious, what's your thoughts in terms of the capacity out there to manage these migrations, in the industry and what are you hearing maybe that improved the deal flow a bit this quarter versus the last couple quarters?

我想問的是，您目前對 SAP ERP 週期接下來的發展走向有何看法？顯然，還有很多公司需要遷移到 Sorna 才能趕上 2027 年的最後期限。這似乎有點牽強。我很好奇，您認為目前業界管理這些遷移的能力如何？您聽說有哪些因素可能使本季的交易量比過去幾季有所改善？

Yes, Josh, thanks for the question. I think competitive industry wise, I should say, I think the industry's been preparing for this for several years. So I know, in talking to a number of our partners they have a -- they've been ramping up staff in anticipation of sort of a backend process for the migrations that are ahead.

是的，喬希，謝謝你的提問。我認為從行業競爭的角度來看，應該說，我認為這個行業已經為此準備了好幾年了。我知道，在與我們的幾位合作夥伴交談後，他們一直在增加人手，以應對即將到來的遷移的後端流程。

So that's what I know. I can't speak anymore in terms of the likelihood of any deviation in the deadline. SAP keeps reinforcing it, so I don't fundamentally see there's a reason changing. I think the -- we've talked about this -- the pipeline has remained solid. It's been more the efficiency getting through the pipeline is deals occasionally at a customer level have been slow due to their own migrations slowing down. I think we saw a little bit of the break in that in the quarter and that's why we had, we were able to highlight the number of SAP wins in the quarter primarily.

這就是我所知道的。我無法再就截止日期可能出現任何偏差的可能性發表任何評論。SAP一直在強調這一點，所以我從根本上看不出有什麼理由要改變。我認為──我們之前也討論過這個問題──這條管道一直很穩定。更主要的問題是流程效率，有時客戶層面的交易進展緩慢，這是因為他們自身的遷移速度放緩了。我認為我們在本季度看到了一些變化，這也是為什麼我們能夠重點突出本季 SAP 的成功案例數量。

Got it. That's helpful. And then, maybe a bit more color on the -- on was it two customers migrating to their own homegrown solutions and is that a portion of their business, with you migrating to the homegrown system or a full system? And was that built into your prior guidance, or did you find out about that after you put up your prior guidance?

知道了。那很有幫助。然後，或許可以再詳細說——是兩個客戶遷移到他們自己開發的解決方案，以及這只是他們業務的一部分，您遷移到的是自研系統還是整個系統？那項內容是包含在你之前的指導原則中的，還是在你發布之前的指導原則之後才發現的？

Yeah. Now this came out. These are customers that didn't go to their homegrown system. They migrated to the Vertex next generation cloud platform. As any companies that are going through a cloud, leading a cloud migration like we are, there's always a moment where you're paying two mortgages where you're paying mortgage on the new. You've already re-licensed with Vertex. We've gotten the uplift from them and they're shutting down their old system. It usually lags on for a short period of time.

是的。現在這件事曝光了。這些客戶沒有選擇使用他們自己開發的系統。他們遷移到了Vertex的下一代雲端平台。對於任何正在經歷雲端運算轉型、引領雲端遷移的公司來說，總會有那麼一個時刻，你相當於在償還兩份抵押貸款，一份是新貸款的抵押貸款。您已與 Vertex 續簽了許可證。我們從他們那裡得到了提升，他們正在關閉舊系統。它通常會持續很短的時間。

These were two companies that were extremely large customers of ours that had already migrated to our cloud at a significant price increase that also we're able to shut down their system faster than we had built into our guidance because they made some internal progress on their systems that we were that they had not forecast when we had our direct engagement with them.

這兩家公司都是我們的大客戶，他們已經遷移到我們的雲端平台，價格也大幅上漲。此外，由於他們在系統內部取得了一些進展，而這些進展是我們與他們直接接觸時他們沒有預料到的，因此我們能夠比預期更快地關閉他們的系統。

So yes, we do factor that into our guidance as we look at our numbers going forward, but it's just these two happen to get things done faster than they had previously guided to us.

所以，是的，我們在展望未來時確實會把這一點考慮在內，但只是這兩個人碰巧比他們之前向我們預估的速度更快而已。

Understood, thank you. I'll pass on.

明白了，謝謝。我不去了。

Chris Quintero, Morgan Stanley.

克里斯昆特羅，摩根士丹利。

Hey guys, thanks for taking the questions and David, let me say I know you're still going to be around, but it's been a pleasure working with you and I wish you all the best in this next part of your life here.

大家好，感謝你們回答問題。大衛，我知道你還會繼續在這裡，但與你共事非常愉快，祝你在人生的下一個階段一切順利。

Maybe on the guidance, I think this is the second time in a row you guys have cut the guide, which I can't remember the last time Vortex has done that. And so just at a high level, has the guidance philosophy changed at all and how are these kind of cuts in forming your assumptions that you're putting into the Q4 guidance here?

或許在指導方面，我認為這是你們連續第二次刪減指導內容了，我不記得 Vortex 上一次這樣做是什麼時候了。那麼，從宏觀層面來看，指導理念是否有所改變？這些削減措施是如何影響你們在製定第四季業績指引時所做的假設的？

Yeah, Chris, thanks for the call. Now, we have not done this before. You're right. In terms of our philosophy around guidance, this hasn't changed our guidance philosophy one bit. We continue to be thoughtful as we think through guidance. And again, as David had mentioned, there was a couple of things obviously this quarter that impact us a little bit. Some of this BK and migration activity certainly had an impact. We certainly had an impact from some of the timing of deals that closed in the third and what we're expecting to see in the fourth-quarter.

好的，克里斯，謝謝你的來電。我們以前從未這樣做過。你說得對。就我們的指導理念而言，這絲毫沒有改變我們的指導理念。我們在思考指導方針時，會繼續保持深思熟慮的態度。正如大衛所提到的那樣，本季顯然有幾件事對我們產生了一些影響。這些BK和移民活動肯定產生了一定的影響。第三季完成的一些交易的時間安排以及我們預計在第四季度看到的情況，確實對我們產生了影響。

And again we continue to focus on that services strategy where we're trying to lead partner where we're trying to go partner first and sort of deemphasize that. And so they were three kind of bigger contributors to what happened, what, why the change for guidance in the fourth-quarter, but there hasn't been a change in philosophy from our standpoint.

我們再次強調服務策略，努力成為領先的合作夥伴，優先發展合作夥伴，並逐漸弱化其他面向。因此，他們是導致第四季業績指引改變的三大主要因素，但從我們的角度來看，我們的理念並沒有改變。

Got it thanks. Thanks for that, John. And then, it seems like the entitlement growth has been kind of one of the main headwinds on your net retention rate and growth from extend from expanding customers. So I'm curious like are there any lessons in terms of like or anything we should keep in mind as it relates to I don't know renewal cohorts as some of these customers have been renewing over the past few years.

明白了，謝謝。謝謝你，約翰。而且，似乎權益成長一直是影響淨留存率和客戶拓展帶來的成長的主要阻力之一。所以我很好奇，在續約群體方面，我們是否有任何經驗教訓或需要注意的地方，因為其中一些客戶在過去幾年裡一直在續約。

Yeah, Chris, I think it's a fundamental of trying to assess where our companies, our customers' growth rates are going to be as they grow through our revenue bands. Obviously we don't have great visibility in each of our customers' forecast growth rate in terms of whether they're going to continue to just expand usage due to their own growth or not, and I think that's been the headwind we've tried to highlight pretty clearly in the in the data we've determined from we spoke to you in Q2.

是的，克里斯，我認為這是評估我們公司、我們的客戶在收入成長過程中，其成長率將如何變化的基本要素。顯然，我們無法很好地了解每位客戶的預測成長率，也無法確定他們是否會因為自身成長而繼續擴大使用量，我認為這正是我們在第二季度與您交談時，透過數據所試圖非常清楚地強調的不利因素。

And so it is something we're trying to see if we can get closer to understanding our customers' actually growth guidance that they're giving to the market to see how that will flip to what we expect for revenue bands, but obviously it's a little bit of a fine line of how much information we have there and how that actually will show up in our revenue bands based on their own revenue, their customers' revenue timing. Unfortunately, it's sort of like two step removed from us.

因此，我們正在努力了解客戶向市場提供的實際成長指導，看看這將如何轉化為我們對收入範圍的期望。但顯然，我們掌握的資訊量以及這些資訊將如何根據他們自身的收入和客戶的收入時間點反映在我們的收入範圍內，這之間存在著微妙的平衡。可惜的是，它離我們就像隔了兩層牆一樣。

Alex Sklar, Raymond James.

Alex Sklar，Raymond James。

Great, thank you. David also, my congratulations on a fantastic career at Vertex here. Switching gears to, I want you hired a new head of sales in Europe as well. Can you just talk about that process? What was behind the change in leadership in Europe, and then how are you thinking about kind of Europe as an opportunity heading into 2026 versus maybe a couple quarters ago?

太好了，謝謝。大衛，也祝賀你在Vertex公司取得如此輝煌的職業生涯。換個話題，我希望你們也在歐洲招募一位新的銷售主管。您能談談這個過程嗎？歐洲領導層更迭的背後原因是什麼？與幾個季度前相比，您如何看待歐洲在 2026 年的發展機會？

Yeah, thanks for the kind words. I'm anxious to partner with Chris Young in the future of Vertex, and certainly in my transition I expect to be as non-executive chairperson of the board. I will be quite active in helping continue to pursue the strategy of this company.

謝謝你的鼓勵。我非常期待與克里斯楊在Vertex的未來合作，當然，在我的過渡期，我希望擔任董事會的非執行主席。我將積極協助公司繼續推進其策略。

I think Europe, it was timing of a just a leadership change. We're continuing to expand the complexity of operations that we have over there with the acquisition of ecosio, and as we push further into the whole e-invoicing marketplace, we had a very good quarter in terms of continued growth there by the ecosio team and our team in general and just the overall complexity of the opportunity increasing felt like we wanted somebody who had been there and done that at a high level and so it's just an up level opportunity there.

我認為歐洲的問題在於領導階層更迭的時機。我們透過收購 ecosio 不斷擴大我們在該領域的營運複雜性，隨著我們進一步進軍整個電子發票市場，ecosio 團隊和我們整個團隊都取得了非常好的季度持續增長，但隨著機遇的複雜性不斷增加，我們覺得我們需要一位在該領域擁有豐富經驗並在高水平上取得成功的人，所以這是一個提升自身能力的絕佳機會。

We really appreciate the gentleman that led that operation for years, but it was a great opportunity with someone we had good relationship connection to bring in and so we capitalized on it.

我們非常感謝多年來領導這項業務的那位先生，但這是一個絕佳的機會，我們可以找到一位與我們關係良好的人來接手，所以我們抓住了這個機會。

Okay, great. And then I don't know if you or John want to take this one, but just as we think about the Q4 growth outlook relative to the kind of the medium term growth outlook that you spoke to earlier this year. How much of the headwinds like the re-ups, the bankruptcies, the early kind of shutting off of on-prem feel kind of one ex from your standpoint versus anything different about the market you're operating in today in terms of just the pace of technology changes or the pace of that SAP transition or e-invoicing adoption kind of broadly. Thanks.

好的，太好了。然後，我不知道你或約翰是否想回答這個問題，但正如我們思考第四季度成長前景與你今年早些時候談到的中期成長前景之間的關係時，我們不妨思考一下。從你的角度來看，像是續約、破產、早期關閉本地部署等不利因素，與你今天所處的市場在技術變革速度、SAP 過渡速度或電子發票普及速度等方面有何不同，你覺得這些不利因素有多少是同一件事？謝謝。

Yeah, maybe I'll start. I think that from an overall guidance in the midterm, I think the BK migration stuff again is stuff that. We typically -- it was somewhat anomalous to the quarter. I don't think that that's something that's going to be a continual thing there. We have those types of things happen every quarter. What we saw though was just a real confluence of a number of real big ones happening in the quarter that really drove that.

嗯，也許我會開始。我認為從中期整體指引來看，我認為破產清算相關事宜再次成為重點。我們通常——這與本季的情況有些反常。我不認為這種情況會一直持續下去。這類事情每季都會發生。但我們看到的是，本季發生的許多重大事件匯聚在一起，才真正推動了這種情況的發生。

So I would say from that standpoint, I think that to me is anomalous, in terms of kind of other of other things, and we look at the -- when we look at sort of how the quarter plays out and we look at sort of what next year looks like, keep in mind as you comp us out to some of our prior year numbers that we did have a very large, some very large shrew ups in the fourth-quarter of last year and again we're anticipating very little in the fourth-quarter of this year. So it really drives, it drives certain revenue growth next year. It mutes a little bit of what the impact truly of this.

所以從這個角度來看，我認為這很反常，就其他方面而言，當我們觀察本季度的情況以及明年的前景時，請記住，在與我們前一年的一些數據進行比較時，我們在去年第四季度確實出現了非常大的增長，而我們預計今年第四季度不會出現太大的增長。所以它確實會推動明年一定的營收成長。它在一定程度上掩蓋了這件事的真正影響。

Right, I mean, the actual growth rate for the quarter would be close to 13% if you took out those entitlements, and so I think that is notable. I mean I do think if you look forward in the invoicing, I mean, obviously we're just getting into the whole land and expand motion we've talked about that we think is really, setting us up well as those France and Germany deadlines come on in 2026. That's really what we've been pointing for.

沒錯，我的意思是，如果剔除這些應享權益，本季的實際成長率將接近 13%，所以我認為這很值得注意。我的意思是，如果你展望未來的發票情況，我的意思是，顯然我們正在進入我們討論過的整個土地和擴張階段，我們認為這真的讓我們在2026年法國和德國的最後期限到來時做好了充分的準備。這正是我們一直以來所希望看到的。

And I think the timing of those adoptions are pretty much falling where we thought it'll accelerate as we move into '26 pretty significantly.

而我認為這些採用的時機基本上符合我們的預期，隨著我們進入 2026 年，採用速度將會顯著加快。

All right great thank you both.

好的，非常感謝你們兩位。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Adam Hotchkiss, Goldman Sachs.

Adam Hotchkiss，高盛集團。

Great thanks so much for taking the question and David echoing my best wishes to you. It's been great working with you. I wanted to touch on the comments you made on your customer conference and AI. What was it that customers from your perspective were most interested in from an AI perspective and where are they from exploratory to actually starting to put some of these things into practice? And I thought the Smartcat call on the retail side was interesting. How quickly can you get into other verticals and just get up and running with more customers on that side?

非常感謝您回答這個問題，也請David轉達我對您的美好祝福。和你一起工作非常愉快。我想談談您在客戶大會和人工智慧方面發表的評論。從您的角度來看，客戶對人工智慧最感興趣的是什麼？他們從探索階段到真正開始將這些想法付諸實踐，目前進展如何？我覺得Smartcat在零售方面的投資決策很有趣。你多久能進入其他垂直領域，並迅速發展壯大，獲得更多客戶？

Yeah, I think the approach we're taking with the -- thanks for the questions and the comments certainly,. The approach we're taking with AI with the human in the loop is an essential part of what the enterprise market is expecting because of the requirements for traceability when they get into audits and they have to justify the positions they took in the on a tax position and understanding the logic that's actually inside of the decision making is really essential to their processes. So the fact that we're keeping the human in the loop number one is critical. I think some of the agent to agent work we're doing we highlighted.

是的，我認為我們正在採取的方法——非常感謝您的提問和評論。我們採用的這種將人融入人工智慧的方法，是企業市場所期望的重要組成部分，因為企業在接受審計時需要可追溯性，他們必須證明自己在稅務問題上所採取的立場是合理的，而理解決策背後的邏輯對於他們的流程來說至關重要。因此，將人置於首位至關重要。我認為我們已經重點介紹了一些我們正在進行的經紀人之間的合作工作。

The encouragement that we're actually directly working with the systems that they run their businesses on, so I highlighted on this quarter and in Microsoft, the first ever agent to agent interaction between our platform and the Microsoft Dynamics 365 finance and supply chain platform is a really encouraging thing for our customers, because it lets them know behind the scenes there will be certain things that will be going on to support their ongoing time to value requirements.

令人鼓舞的是，我們實際上正在與他們經營業務的系統直接合作。因此，我在本季度重點介紹了微軟，我們的平台與 Microsoft Dynamics 365 財務和供應鏈平台之間首次實現了代理對代理的交互，這對我們的客戶來說是一件非常鼓舞人心的事情，因為它讓他們知道，在幕後，我們將採取一些措施來支持他們持續實現價值的時間要求。

So I think that was a really well received component of what we're doing in the market with as opposed to just pushing out AI in terms of direct, like a chat GPT type, a Co-pilot, but actually taking it to a next level where we're able to drive efficiency and effectiveness in the market.

所以我認為，這是我們在市場上所做的事情中一個非常受歡迎的組成部分，而不是僅僅直接推出人工智慧，例如聊天 GPT 類型、副駕駛，而是真正將其提升到一個新的水平，從而提高市場的效率和效果。

I think Smartcat as an offering is a really exciting one, and we started to see some of the green shoots we thought were available to us because of the challenges our customers face in categorization of products. And so now we're going to start to focus beyond retail. We have that product ready. We're now moving that into, trying to generate more in the retail space while we also start to ingest more data, and we'll look at that basically on a quarter-to-quarter basis, to be honest, in terms of how much we can ingest and make it viable for our customer base. Certainly, there's a lot of interest across the customer base for us to do that.

我認為 Smartcat 是一項非常令人興奮的產品，我們開始看到一些我們認為可以利用的正面因素，因為我們的客戶在產品分類方面面臨挑戰。所以現在我們要開始將關注點擴展到零售業以外。我們已經準備好了該產品。我們現在正朝著這個方向發展，努力在零售領域創造更多價值，同時也開始吸收更多數據。坦白說，我們會按季度評估我們可以吸收多少數據，並使其對我們的客戶群具有可行性。當然，我們的客戶群中很多人都希望我們這樣做。

Okay, great, that's really helpful color and then on investments and e-invoicing and AI. Just curious how those are tracking. I know that EBITDA did come in a little bit better this quarter. Are you still expecting that margin inflection and I know that Chris isn't on the call, but just maybe reiterate your confidence level and when and sort of the magnitude of that margin inflection would be helpful thanks.

好的，太好了，這真的很有幫助，顏色，還有投資、電子發票和人工智慧。只是好奇這些數據追蹤情況如何。我知道本季的 EBITDA 確實略有改善。您是否仍預期會出現利潤率轉折點？我知道克里斯沒有參加電話會議，但能否重申您的信心程度，以及利潤率轉折點出現的時間和幅度？謝謝。

Yeah, great question. Yeah, we continue to be on track with the investments that we talked about the ecosio investment investments of $4 million to $5 million per quarter and then the AI investments largely focused around some of the Smartcat activities that David just talked through. They are tracking very well. So, we feel good about that. We feel good about the progress that we've seen to date.

嗯，問得好。是的，我們繼續按計劃進行投資，就像我們之前談到的那樣，Ecosio 的投資每季 400 萬至 500 萬美元，而人工智慧投資則主要集中在 David 剛才提到的 Smartcat 的一些活動上。他們進展非常順利。所以，我們對此感到很滿意。我們對迄今為止的進展感到滿意。

Again, the plan is to largely have a lot of that behind us as we get into the to the middle of next year, and I think that's -- we feel like everything's pointed towards that and it continues to be pointed towards that and we expect to start to see some of that leverage and some of that realization start to show itself up.

再次強調，我們的計畫是到明年年中時，大部分工作都能順利完成。我認為——我們感覺一切都在朝著這個方向發展，而且這種發展勢頭還會繼續下去，我們預計會開始看到一些優勢和成果顯現出來。

We did have a good quarter this quarter from an overall margin perspective, and I think we were pleased with the results that came through that. But a lot of that had more to do with some of the leverage we're seeing throughout the rest of our business and just being thoughtful about spend as we and the back half based on some of the conversations we had at the end of the second-quarter.

從整體利潤率來看，我們本季表現不錯，我認為我們對最終的業績感到滿意。但其中許多都與我們在其他業務領域看到的槓桿作用有關，也與我們在第二季末進行的一些對話中對支出的深思熟慮有關，尤其是在下半年。

So again, I think we feel very good about the investment programs that are in place. We expect to continue them. We haven't had any significant changes in our plans in terms of timing or in terms of or level of spend. And so I think everything continues to move along there nicely.

所以，我再次強調，我們對現有的投資計畫感到非常滿意。我們計劃繼續開展這些項目。在時間安排、支出水準等方面，我們的計劃沒有任何重大變化。所以我覺得那邊一切都很順利進行。

Okay great thank you.

好的，非常感謝。

Jake Roberg, William Blair.

傑克‧羅伯格，威廉‧布萊爾。

Yeah, thanks for taking the questions, and David, I'll echo my congrats. It's been great working with you over the past few years. Just on the invoicing solution, could you talk about how that product compares to some of your competitors out there just from a country coverage perspective? And as we start seeing some of these larger countries like Germany and France go online next year, do you feel like that product's ready for prime time?

是的，謝謝你回答問題，大衛，我也要向你表示祝賀。過去幾年和你一起工作非常愉快。僅就發票解決方案而言，您能否從國家覆蓋範圍的角度談談該產品與一些競爭對手的產品相比有何不同？隨著像德國和法國這樣的一些大國明年開始上網，你覺得這款產品是否已經準備好進入黃金時代了？

Yeah, sure. Thank you for the kind words. Yes, number one, France and Germany, priority ones, the whole strategy from day one was always to make sure wherever there was a green field, meaning there was no competitive, no competitor had already solved for a given country. That was our priority one in terms of where we've been investing. So we're ready for France, Belgium, and Germany to compete on those and very comfortable as those regulations are going into effect with Belgium here in two months and the other two as we move into the middle to back half of '26, excuse me. So yes, feel very comfortable there. Number one.

當然可以。謝謝你的鼓勵。是的，首要目標是法國和德國，從一開始就制定了整個戰略，確保在任何有空白領域的地方，也就是沒有競爭對手、沒有競爭對手已經解決過某個特定國家的問題的地方，都要有所作為。那是我們投資的首要重點。所以我們已經準備好迎接法國、比利時和德國在這些方面的競爭，而且我們非常有信心，因為這些規定將在兩個月後生效，比利時將在兩個月後生效，另外兩個國家將在 2026 年中下半年生效，抱歉。是的，在那裡你會感覺很舒服。第一。

Number two, we continue to expand our coverage as when we made the acquisition, we didn't buy a company that had coverage everywhere. We've been focused on the primary economies and continue to expand our coverage around the primary economies where the invoicing is of the greatest import to our customers. Primary economies meaning where large economies where our customers are doing a lot of business.

第二，我們繼續擴大覆蓋範圍，因為我們收購時並沒有收購一家涵蓋所有地區的公司。我們一直專注於主要經濟體，並將繼續擴大我們在主要經濟體的覆蓋範圍，因為發票對我們的客戶來說最為重要。初級經濟體指的是我們的客戶進行大量業務的大型經濟體。

Hence the recent go to market partnership we announced with Brinta to accelerate our coverage in some key Latin geographies like Mexico and Brazil, where a lot of our global multinationals have revenue and we want to make sure we had coverage to be competitive in those in those regions. So yeah, that continues to be a steady part of our build out as we go forward, and that's the investment cycle that John was just highlighting that's going to run through the middle of next year.

因此，我們最近宣布與 Brinta 建立市場合作夥伴關係，以加快我們在墨西哥和巴西等一些關鍵拉丁美洲地區的覆蓋範圍。我們許多全球跨國公司在這些地區都有收入，我們希望確保我們能夠覆蓋這些地區，從而在這些地區保持競爭力。是的，這將繼續成為我們未來發展建設中穩定的一部分，這也是約翰剛才強調的投資週期，該週期將持續到明年年中。

Okay, that's helpful. And then there's obviously been some moving pieces over the past few quarters. But just thinking a bit longer-term, could you double click into the competitive landscape and if you've seen any changes to win rates or competitors making more noise that might have been showing up at the edges this year?

好的，這很有幫助。顯然，過去幾季也發生了一些變化。但從長遠來看，您能否深入分析競爭格局，看看今年勝率是否有任何變化，或者競爭對手是否發出了更多聲音，這些變化可能已經顯現出來？

It's funny, I literally just made sure, like I always do before these calls to check with my head of sales here in the US in particular, where we have there's a lot of competitors, and no change whatsoever in the competitive dynamics in terms of win rate, our strategy to continue to focus on, the influencers that impact the market are tight relationships with the big four and other large accounting firms and the investment we're making to deemphasize our services revenue which does impact short-term revenue.

真有意思，我剛才還特意確認了一下，就像我每次打電話之前都會做的那樣，我特意跟我們在美國這邊的銷售主管確認了一下，因為我們在美國有很多競爭對手，而且在成交率方面，競爭格局沒有任何變化。我們的策略是繼續專注於影響市場的關鍵因素，例如與四大和其他大型會計師事務所保持緊密的合作關係，以及我們正在進行的投資，以降低服務收入的重要性，因為服務收入確實會影響短期收入。

We've noted that is also paying off by securing the win rates that we we've enjoyed in the past and we continue to see and certainly some of the investments we're now making in areas like AI and Microsoft actually think are going to improve our opportunities in some new -- some of the new segments.

我們注意到，這樣做也取得了成效，確保了我們過去一直享有的勝率，而且我們繼續看到這種情況，當然，我們現在在人工智慧和微軟等領域進行的一些投資，實際上認為將會改善我們在一些新的領域的機會。

Great thanks for taking the questions.

非常感謝您回答這些問題。

Brett Huff, Stephens Incorporated.

Brett Huff，Stephens Incorporated。

Good morning and thanks for taking the questions. Two for me. I know you guys have been doing a lot of work given the entitlement changes on digging in and making sure you had more visibility into kind of those entitlement changes. How should we think about those as they roll forward?

早安，感謝各位回答問題。我兩個。我知道鑑於福利政策的變化，你們做了很多工作，深入研究並確保你們對這些福利政策的變化有更清晰的了解。隨著這些事情向前發展，我們該如何看待它們？

We've gotten some questions on we know these entitlements have slowed a little bit. Is there a continued a couple quarter sort of period that we have to get through? Is there anything kind of bolus or timing wise that we need to pay attention to that this may last a little longer? How do you guys sort of frame that up?

我們收到了一些關於這些福利發放速度放緩的問題。我們需要經歷一段兩三個月的時期嗎？在劑量或給藥時間方面，我們需要注意什麼嗎？因為這種情況可能會持續更長時間。你們是怎麼看待這件事的？

Yeah, thanks for the question, Brett. Yeah, in terms of entitlements and how that plays out, I don't think there's really any time frame for which this is going to change. There's nothing out there that's going to make turn this into a quicker, a quicker rebound or even change the rebound too much. So I think it's going to just take a little bit of time for that to play out and in the normal course of business through the normal renewal process we'll see that work out.

是的，謝謝你的提問，布雷特。是的，就福利待遇及其具體實施方式而言，我認為短期內不會有任何改變。目前沒有任何方法能讓籃板反彈更快，甚至改變籃板反彈的幅度。所以我認為這需要一些時間才能見分曉，在正常的業務流程和正常的續約過程中，我們會看到事情得到解決。

We try to we do our best to get in front of some of this visibility and do best to try to make sure that we have that built into our forecasts. But I think as we talked about the last time, some of this stuff comes up, soon only just before the renewal base takes place. Overall, generally, this has, I think, a little bit more to do just with overall economic activity that's going on at customers and then again to a lesser degree some of their ability to migrate other systems they're using into the Vertex platform.

我們會盡最大努力提前了解這些情況，並盡力確保將這些情況納入我們的預測中。但我認為，正如我們上次討論的那樣，其中一些事情很快就會出現，而且往往只發生在續約之前。總的來說，我認為這更多是與客戶的整體經濟活動有關，其次，也與他們將正在使用的其他系統遷移到 Vertex 平台的能力有關。

So as they're doing other upgrades and other things, they're continually bringing and moving additional systems. And additional entities that they have work going through onto our software and so some if that slows because of other activities that they're doing, sometimes that can take a little longer.

因此，在進行其他升級和其他工作的同時，他們也不斷地引入和遷移其他系統。此外，他們還有一些實體正在透過我們的軟體進行工作，因此如果由於他們正在進行的其他活動而導致某些工作進度減慢，有時可能需要更長。

But I don't think there's really anything out there that's really going to drive or change this dramatically, it's just a mere the passage of time. And again, as we said, we saw a little bit of that happen back around COVID. And again, as we got a little bit, a couple of quarters through that, we started to see that snap back as activity picked up again and I'm anticipating we'll see the same here.

但我認為目前不會有任何事情真正推動或徹底改變這種狀況，這只是時間的推移。正如我們之前所說，我們在新冠疫情期間也看到一些類似的情況。再一次，過了幾個季度之後，我們開始看到市場活動再次回升，經濟也開始反彈，我預計這裡也會出現同樣的情況。

Great, thank you. And the second question around SAP, thanks for the comments earlier, both prepared and the answers to questions. Can you maybe just a little bit more unpack that any anecdotal kind of conversations change in tone around SAP migrations, it sounds like they were a little bit better this quarter. What is kind of the anecdotal feedback that you've gotten? I'm sure you had a lot of conversations at your user conference. Can you give us any more insight into how those decisions are being made or delayed?

太好了，謝謝。關於 SAP 的第二個問題，感謝您先前的評論，包括事先準備好的問題和對問題的回答。您能否再詳細解釋一下，關於 SAP 遷移的軼事性對話的語氣發生了變化，聽起來這季度情況有所好轉。你收到的回饋意見主要有哪些？我相信你們在用戶大會上進行了很多討論。您能否進一步說明這些決策是如何制定或延遲的？

Yeah, I think the exchange was a really good, it was just an exchange at our customer conference. It was just two weeks ago, one week and a half ago, and I would say that it was very supportive of what we would expect as we move into '26 at the between our conversations with the large accounting firms that are all there, the many accounting firms that are there, part of this as well as SAP directly. I definitely think that the activity in '26 is going to accelerate as we look forward based on what customers are telling us and what influencers are seeing in their growing backlog that they're going to be processing.

是的，我認為那次交流非常好，那隻是我們客戶大會上的交流。就在兩週前，或者一周半前，我想說，在我們與眾多大型會計師事務所（包括 SAP 等）進行對話，並直接與 SAP 溝通之後，我們對 2026 年的預期得到了非常積極的回應。我確信，根據客戶告訴我們的情況以及有影響力的人士看到的他們不斷增長的待處理訂單的情況來看，2026 年的業務活動將會加速發展。

Great, that's what I needed. Thank you so much.

太好了，這正是我需要的。太感謝了。

Steve Enders, City.

史蒂夫恩德斯，城市。

Okay, great, thanks for taking the questions this morning and David, congrats, as well, and I got the prior sentiments on the call.

好的，太好了，謝謝你們今天早上回答問題，大衛，也祝賀你，我明白了你們在電話會議上的先前看法。

I guess just to start I want to ask or clarify I think a prior comment you made about seeing some there's some timing of deals that that closed in the quarter, that impacted things a bit and just want to get a little bit more clarity on if there were if there were deal delays, maybe how that is manifesting in the pipeline or how you're kind of thinking about the future pipeline from here.

我想先問一下或澄清一下，您之前提到過，本季度完成的一些交易的時間安排對某些方面產生了一定影響，我想更清楚地了解一下是否存在交易延誤，以及這在項目儲備中是如何體現的，或者您對未來的項目儲備有何看法。

Yeah, I appreciate the question and certainly the comments, Steve. The quarter closed largely at the back end of the Q3 largely closed at the back end, meaning September was a very large month, and I think that's a behavior where we expect to see again with good visibility. When we talk about pipeline in a quarter, it means stuff that's already through -- it's not caught up in that middle where like, oh, could they get delayed because of their whole ERP process slows down.

是的，史蒂夫，我很感謝你的提問和評論。第三季末段基本上已經結束，這意味著9月份是一個非常大的月份，我認為我們預計這種趨勢會再次出現，而且前景良好。當我們談論一個季度的管道時，指的是已經完成的事情——它不會像某些項目那樣，因為整個 ERP 流程變慢而導致專案延誤。

When we talk about guidance and when John's thinking about guidance in the quarter, it's based on what he has visibility to. It's already pretty far down the pipe of we've already been chosen. It's more about like legal getting through their process and the normal purchasing process if you would to close and so.

當我們談到業績指引，以及約翰在考慮本季業績指引時，他所依據的都是他所掌握的資訊。事情已經進展到相當深入的階段了，我們可能已經被選中了。更多的是關於法律方面的流程，以及正常的購買流程，例如你想完成交易等等。

I think the process is laid out pretty consistent for the quarter as we look forward to what we expect to be a normal quarter in Q4. It's our largest quarter and we're typically headed to that way with December being the largest month, and I would expect no difference to that whatsoever.

我認為本季的流程安排相當一致，我們預期第四季能夠正常進行。這是我們業績最大的季度，通常情況下，12 月是業績最大的月份，我預計今年也不會有任何不同。

Okay, sorry, but to clarify there were deals that got pushed out or things that didn't close as you were originally expecting here.

好的，不好意思，但需要澄清的是，有些交易被推遲了，或者有些事情沒有像您最初預期的那樣完成。

No, I think in Q3 we closed the deals we thought we were going to close. They closed later in the quarter than we expected. For sure. That's why I said September was a very large month which obviously cost us a little bit of revenue that would have normally been recognized in the earlier months of the quarter.

不，我認為第三季我們完成了我們預期會完成的交易。他們的結算時間比我們預期的要晚。一定。這就是為什麼我說九月是一個非常大的月份，這顯然導致我們損失了一些原本會在本季早些時候確認的收入。

And as we look forward to Q4, I think we're seeing the same setup where December is going to be a very large quarter, but the pipeline of activity in the -- is where we forecast to be and it is built into our thinking about guidance.

展望第四季度，我認為情況依然如此，12 月將是一個非常大的季度，但目前的業務活動規模——正如我們預測的那樣，這已納入我們對業績指引的考慮之中。

Got you. Okay, that's helpful and, just on a ecosio, appreciate the revenue, contribution this quarter. But it -- are you feeling like that is on track for this year now? Like did you kind of see that the catch up that you were expecting and I think on track for the was it a $16 million revenue number that you previously talked about, is that still line of sight there?

抓到你了。好的，這很有幫助。另外，就 Ecosio 而言，感謝您本季的營收和貢獻。但是──你覺得今年的進展一切順利嗎？你是否看到了你所預期的追趕勢頭？我認為，你之前提到的1600萬美元營收目標，現在是否仍然能夠實現？

Yeah, absolutely, we still have a line of sight for that. I mean, I think they've made some real good progress and we've seen some nice upticks in the business activity over there as well as the momentum that's underlying the pipeline and so. We absolutely still have a line of sight to that. And again between the combination of that and then the continued investment we're making in that business, we're all in on e-invoicing and so I think, yeah, we expect to see those results come through as anticipated.

是的，當然，我們仍然有希望實現這個目標。我的意思是，我認為他們已經取得了一些非常好的進展，我們看到那邊的業務活動出現了一些不錯的成長，而且專案儲備也呈現出良好的發展勢頭。我們仍然完全能夠看到它。再加上我們對這項業務的持續投資，我們全力投入電子發票，所以我認為，是的，我們預計這些結果會如預期般實現。

And Steve, I think that just dubs to the deadline of Belgium is coming and that's, I think that, these are decisions that are being made and that's why, we have that kind of visibility. I think you're going to see the exact same thing play out as we move next year into the larger economies of France and Germany where France goes live in September and I would expect to see a real increase in activity as we get through Q1, not so much but certainly Q2 and into Q3 you'll see a real uptick and then the same thing as we think about Germany going live in January of '27 with the back half of Q4 which is pretty much consistent with what we've been telegraphing based on our experience.

史蒂夫，我認為比利時的截止日期臨近，我認為，這些決定正在製定中，這就是為什麼我們能夠獲得這種可見性。我認為明年隨著我們進入法國和德國這兩個更大的經濟體，情況也會完全一樣。法國將於9月上線，我預計第一季經濟活動將顯著成長，第二季可能不會成長太多，但第二季和第三季肯定會出現真正的成長。德國將於2027年1月上線，預計第四季下半年也會出現同樣的成長，這與我們根據經驗所做的預測基本一致。

Okay perfect great to hear and thanks for taking the questions.

好的，太好了，謝謝你回答問題。

Thanks, Steve.

謝謝你，史蒂夫。

Andrew DeGasperi, BMP Paribas.

安德魯‧德加斯佩里 (Andrew DeGasperi)，BMP 巴黎銀行。

Thanks and David, I'll add my own words as well. It's great working with you over the years and good luck in the Chairman role. Just wanted to get over the last I guess Q&A I just getting a message that between the e-invoicing opportunity, the SAP migrations. And then if you have kind of the easier comps relative to this year, I mean, is there any reason why your business shouldn't accelerate from a top-line perspective next year? No, you don't give out guidance, just trying to get a better sense of directionally where we're going.

謝謝，大衛，我也會補充一些自己的話。多年來與您共事非常愉快，並祝福您在主席一職上一切順利。我只是想盡快結束上次的問答環節，我剛剛收到一條訊息，內容是關於電子發票機會和 SAP 遷移。如果與今年相比，你的業績比較容易比較，我的意思是，從營收角度來看，你的業務明年有什麼理由不加速成長呢？不，你不是在給予指導，只是想更了解我們前進的方向。

Yeah, Andrew, I'll take that. I'll start with that again as we think about next year, we don't give -- we're not giving guidance now. We'll do that when we have our call in our call in February for next year, but we do anticipate certainly top-line revenue growth next year. I think there's a lot of fundamental factors that are contributing again as David talked about. The invoicing activity continues to be strong.

好的，安德魯，我接受。我再說一遍，當我們考慮明年時，我們現在不給任何指導。我們將在2月的電話會議上討論明年的計劃，但我們確實預計明年的營收肯定會成長。我認為正如大衛所說，有很多根本性因素再次促成了這件事。發票業務持續強勁。

The SAP pipeline, and the activity that's there are going to be big contributors to growth next year. And so absolutely we anticipate revenue growth into next year, significant revenue growth into next year because of those factors that are out there and that are still very prevalent in the business.

SAP 的銷售管道和現有業務活動將成為明年成長的重要推動因素。因此，我們絕對預期明年收入將實現成長，而且由於目前存在的、在商業領域仍然非常普遍的那些因素，明年收入將實現顯著增長。

Right. And then, maybe just one on in terms of the --I think you mentioned some comments earlier about some customers are paying two mortgages, when they do these transitions, just wondering, how much of that customer base is right now doing that because if you look at your cloud versus on-prem and the revenue, obviously I guess the question I have is do we see a much broader dislocation between those two as we look into next year?

正確的。然後，也許就這一點而言——我想您之前提到過一些客戶在進行這些轉型時需要支付兩份抵押貸款，我只是想知道，目前有多少客戶群正在這樣做，因為如果您看一下您的雲端與本地部署以及收入，顯然，我想問的是，展望明年，我們是否會看到這兩者之間出現更廣泛的脫節？

No, not at all. No reason to think that these first of all, we always have good visibility and we work hard to factor that into our guidance so that it doesn't come up as a surprise in terms of what happened in Q3. So no, number one, I don't think and we only see typically we talk about 2% to 3% of our customers migrating every year and I've talked about there's an on-prem base that's never going to go away subscription revenue is going to be around for quite some time.

不，完全不是。沒有理由認為這些情況會發生。首先，我們始終保持著良好的可視性，並且我們努力將這些因素納入我們的業績指引中，這樣就不會讓第三季發生的事情令人感到意外。所以，不，第一，我不認為，而且我們通常只看到每年有 2% 到 3% 的客戶遷移，我也說過，本地部署用戶群永遠不會消失，訂閱收入也會持續相當長一段時間。

We're already up to close to 57% or so percent of our business is cloud, and that's where it's growing, and I think we'll see a slower, we'll continue to the ones that haven't migrated are going to be the longest to take the time to migrate just given the nature of those businesses that we know haven't migrated. So no, I see absolutely no reason to think we're going to have that kind of a surprise that occurred just these customers did their shutdown faster than normal, but I'm not worried about that actually at all.

我們目前已有近 57% 的業務實現了雲端遷移，雲端遷移仍在持續成長。我認為雲端遷移速度會放緩，那些尚未遷移的企業需要花費最長的時間才能完成遷移，這主要是因為我們知道這些尚未遷移的企業的性質決定的。所以，不，我完全看不出有什麼理由認為我們會遇到那種意外情況，只是這些客戶的停工速度比正常情況快，但我其實一點也不擔心。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Patrick Walraven, Citizens.

派崔克‧沃爾拉文，市民。

Great, thank you very much. David, I think you first came to our conference in 2007. So it's been a pleasure working with you over the last 18 years. It's probably for Joe, but you know the prepared remarks didn't address the 2028 targets. So can we just address it head on? Are you reiterating the 2028, 20% plus subscription growth and 30% plus cloud growth today.

太好了，非常感謝。大衛，我想你第一次來參加我們的會議是在 2007 年。過去18年與您共事非常愉快。這可能是給喬的，但你知道，準備好的演講稿並沒有提到2028年的目標。那我們能不能直接解決這個問題？您今天是否重申了 2028 年訂閱業務成長 20% 以上、雲端業務成長 30% 以上的預期？

Yeah, I think the buyback is a signal by our Board for its confidence in the future of this company 100%, and I certainly think we continue to be cloud first in everything we're doing, so I see no reason to fundamentally think that's going to shift away from the growth we expect in the future and certainly with what we're seeing in e-invoicing and what should pick up in 2016 even more so from SAP, as their deadline approaches.

是的，我認為這次股票回購是董事會對公司未來百分之百充滿信心的訊號。而且我確信，我們將繼續在所有業務中堅持雲端優先，因此我認為沒有理由認為這會偏離我們預期的未來成長，尤其是在電子發票領域，隨著SAP截止日期的臨近，電子發票業務在2016年應該會更加蓬勃發展。

I don't see a reason to fundamentally shift anything we've said in our guidance. The numbers that you've seen in entitlements pull back. We saw this in COVID, and then it's snapped back nicely. I see once again just the fundamental nature of who the enterprise customer is. They're going to grow through bands and we're naturally going to get those entitlements. And so now, I have no data to suggest a shift in what we're fundamentally what we've said.

我認為沒有理由從根本上改變我們在指導方針中已經闡述的任何內容。你們看到的福利金數字有所下降。我們在新冠疫情中看到了這一點，然後它又很好地恢復了。我再次看清了企業客戶的本質。他們會透過組樂團來發展壯大，而我們自然也會獲得相應的權利。所以現在，我沒有任何數據顯示我們所說的根本內容改變了。

Yeah, terrific. And then can I just ask about the bankruptcy because I just looked two of them up quickly in Party City and Big Lots, both of those were announced in December of '24. So, how does that play out? Like, yeah, how does that work?

是的，太棒了。然後可以問一下破產的事情嗎？因為我剛才快速查了一下 Party City 和 Big Lots 的破產訊息，這兩家公司都是在 2024 年 12 月宣布破產的。那麼，事情會如何發展呢？是啊，那到底是怎麼運作的？

So when companies file Chapter 11, sometimes they continue to be in business. They continue to operate for years, and as long as you're in business, you have to charge sales tax. So we've had customers in the past have gone bankrupt, and we continue to collect licensed revenue. It may be on a reduced rate because their revenue's gone down, but we continue to collect revenue from these are ones that officially went away, and you don't know when that's going to end. We have no way of knowing that just because they filed Chapter 11 doesn't mean we're necessarily going to see an immediate end of that license, that license revenue.

所以，當公司申請破產保護（第 11 章）時，有時它們會繼續經營。它們可以持續經營多年，只要你還在營業，就必須收取銷售稅。所以，我們過去也遇到過客戶破產的情況，但我們仍然繼續收取授權收入。雖然他們的收入下降了，所以稅率可能有所降低，但我們仍然從這些已經正式消失的公司收取收入，而且你不知道這種情況什麼時候會結束。我們無法得知，僅僅因為他們申請了破產保護（第 11 章）並不意味著我們一定會立即看到該許可證和許可證收入的終止。

Yeah, sure, thank you.

好的，謝謝。

Rob Oliver, Baird.

羅布·奧利弗，貝爾德。

Great, thank you guys. Good morning. Thanks for taking the questions. David. First one for you is just, one of the themes I think at the analyst day back in March was around, tax not just as compliance but as business enablement and as part of that you talked about not just the sort of the traditional enterprise channel which has been a big focus of this call, but also some of the market places like SAP Hybrid and Salesforce Demandware and obviously Shopify is moving upmarket and there hasn't been any comment on the call about this.

太好了，謝謝大家。早安.謝謝您回答問題。大衛。首先，我想問的是，在三月的分析師日上，一個重要的主題是稅務不僅僅是合規，更是業務賦能。您不僅談到了傳統的企業管道（這也是本次電話會議的重點），還談到了 SAP Hybrid 和 Salesforce Demandware 等市場平台，當然 Shopify 也正在向高端市場轉型，但電話會議上對此沒有任何評論。

So I really wanted to hear your view your view on where you guys are today relative to that opportunity where there really seems to be a burgeoning opportunity within the tax software market, and then I had a quick follow-up for John.

所以我很想聽聽你們對目前公司所處位置的看法，以及你們如何看待稅務軟體市場中似乎正在蓬勃發展的機會。之後，我還有一個問題要問約翰。

Yeah, sure, I had Shopify on stage with me at my customer conference, really talking about the partnership and what we're doing with them really working in lockstep as they continue to expand. They continue to expand and they're rapidly succeeding upmarket. There's just a natural synergy between our two organizations. And so, every quarter I try to pick out a few wins that are notable coming out of Q2. There's a lot of questions about SAP pipeline. We had a really good quarter in SAP wins, so I thought I would just highlight a few of those on the call, but we continue to make progress across the entire base of our key technology ecosystem partners number one.

是的，當然，在我的客戶大會上，我邀請了 Shopify 同台，我們認真地討論了合作關係以及我們正在與他們攜手合作，隨著他們的不斷擴張，我們正齊心協力地開展工作。他們持續擴張，並在高端市場迅速取得成功。我們兩個組織之間有著天然的綜效。因此，每個季度我都會嘗試挑選出一些在第二季度表現突出的勝利。關於 SAP Pipeline 有很多問題。我們在 SAP 方面取得了非常好的成績，所以我打算在電話會議上重點介紹其中的一些，但我們繼續在整個關鍵技術生態系統合作夥伴方面取得進展。

And number two, I see no reason that's not going to change. And in fact, you may have noticed we launched our Kintsugi powered by Vertex offering, which I think is just going to increase a new opportunity for us to generate growth in the future as we look at their ability to actually work at the lower end of the market, which is really highly suspect or highly appropriate for the type of solution that AI has, that AI can deliver through Kintsugi .

第二，我認為這種情況沒有理由不改變。事實上，您可能已經注意到我們推出了由 Vertex 提供支援的 Kintsugi 產品，我認為這將為我們未來的成長帶來新的機遇，因為我們正在考察其在低端市場的實際應用能力，而這對於人工智慧能夠提供的解決方案類型來說，無論是透過 Kintsugi 實現的，還是其他方面，都非常具有吸引力。。

Great, that's helpful. Thanks, David. And then John, just, I know it seems like the challenge now is more about entitlements through ups than it is about the ERP opportunities. So just on that topic, with kind of two quarters in a row of the guidance coming down. Maybe talk a little bit more about how you factor those expectations into your guide for Q4 and how we might get comfortable with the thought that, that's not caught you guys by surprise. I think a couple quarters here. So how to think about that headed into '26. Thank you very much.

太好了，這很有幫助。謝謝你，大衛。約翰，我知道現在看來，挑戰似乎更在於透過向上級獲得權利，而不是ERP的機會。就這個主題而言，已經連續兩個季度下調了業績指引。或許可以再多談談你們是如何將這些預期納入第四季度業績指引的，以及我們如何才能接受「這並沒有讓你們感到意外」這種說法。我想這裡應該有兩枚硬幣。那麼，展望2026年，我們該如何看待這個問題呢？非常感謝。

Yeah, thanks, Rob. Certainly, when we revised back in Q2, entitlements was a big part of this entitlements and tours were a big part of the story, and that certainly was something we took into consideration when we set that guidance. We continue to look at those, monitor those throughout this quarter. Again, a couple of things that we pointed to this quarter that really impacted Q4, you have less to do with the entitlements and because I think we feel good about how we've captured that, but a little bit more had to do with around timing and as well as some of this BK migration things that have moved along .

謝謝你，羅布。當然，當我們在第二季度進行修訂時，權益是其中的一個重要部分，巡迴演出也是其中的重要部分，這當然是我們制定該指導方針時所考慮的因素。我們將繼續關注這些情況，並在本季持續監測這些情況。再次強調，本季我們指出的幾個對第四季度業績產生重大影響的因素，與權益相關的因素較少，因為我們對權益的落實情況感到滿意，但更多的是與時間安排以及一些已完成的破產清算遷移工作有關。。

Again I feel like the BK migration, as I mentioned earlier, was somewhat anomalous, and the timing of the quoter certainly is something that we're going to use and we'll continue to use as we think about our --continuing our forecasts for 2026 and then beyond as we manage through that.

我再次覺得，正如我之前提到的，BK 遷移有點反常，報價器的時機肯定是我們會利用的，而且在我們思考如何繼續預測 2026 年及以後的情況時，我們也會繼續利用它。

so, that's what I would say, Rob, in terms of kind of how we're thinking about guidance. I don't think we've changed our, we've not changed our philosophy in any way, so we'll continue to continue to put our best foot forward and try to ensure that we are giving clear and accurate information out there.

所以，羅布，這就是我想說的，關於我們如何考慮指導的問題。我認為我們的理念沒有任何改變，所以我們將繼續全力以赴，努力確保我們提供清晰準確的資訊。

Great, much appreciated. Thanks very much.

太好了，非常感謝。非常感謝。

Samad Samana, Jeffreys.

薩馬德·薩馬納，杰弗里斯。

Hi, good morning. Most of my questions have been answered, but if I just think about the bankruptcies, they were all in the like retail space, so that might just be probably coincidence more than anything else. But John, can you just remind us where your biggest vertical concentrations are in terms of the book of business and if you're at least within the retail sector taking a more conservative view, given that's where the bankruptcies were and then I have one follow-up.

您好，早安。我的大部分問題都得到了解答，但如果我仔細想想這些破產案例，它們都發生在零售領域，所以這可能只是巧合而已。但是約翰，你能否提醒我們一下，就業務而言，你最大的垂直集中度在哪裡？考慮到破產事件主要發生在零售業，你是否至少在零售業採取了較保守的觀點？然後我還有一個後續問題。

Yeah, good question, Samad. Thank you. In terms of kind of where our big verticals are certainly manufacturing is our largest retail kind of comes in soon after and so they're bigger focus, we certainly have taken a look at some of the rest of the customers within our vertical of retail to anticipate if anything is out there, but you know at this point there's really nothing in there that caused us to pause or adjust our thinking in terms of kind of any exposures there. We feel like we're very well reserved and we're in a good spot.

薩馬德，問得好。謝謝。就我們主要的垂直領域而言，製造業無疑是我們最大的領域，零售業緊隨其後，因此它們是我們更關注的重點。我們當然也檢視了零售垂直領域內的其他一些客戶，以預測是否存在任何潛在風險，但你知道，目前為止，還沒有任何情況讓我們停下來或調整我們對該領域風險敞口的看法。我們覺得自己非常沉穩，處境很好。

Understood and then maybe just on the long-term targets. I know Pat asked the question, but I'll ask it a slightly different way. I mean, with the management transition going on with the headwinds that the businesses face, if I think about the Q4 guidance kind of pointing to what looks like about like high single-digit growth. It seems like 20% is a very tough lift to get to by 2028. And so why not get rid of those targets and make it easier, especially as you get the managing management transition. And just help us think about, what's the point of the path to getting to 20%.

明白了，然後或許可以只專注在長期目標。我知道帕特問過這個問題，但我會換個方式問。我的意思是，考慮到管理層過渡以及企業面臨的種種不利因素，如果我考慮第四季度的業績指引，就會發現它似乎指向的只是接近個位數的成長。看來 2028 年要達成 20% 的目標非常困難。所以，為什麼不取消這些目標，讓事情變得更容易呢？尤其是在管理過渡時期。請大家思考一下，達到 20% 的目標的意義是什麼。

Yeah, I guess what I might start with Samad is again I think we feel like all the under overall demand drivers of the business that we've talked about, as David mentioned, are still there and we feel good about those. There is some transition that's going on here and we'll kind of man, we're going to certainly manage to do that as David has articulated over time.

是的，我想我可以先和薩馬德談談，我認為我們覺得之前討論過的所有導致業務整體需求下降的因素，正如大衛提到的那樣，仍然存在，我們對此感到樂觀。這裡正在發生一些轉變，我們會盡力做到這一點，正如大衛一直以來所闡述的。

But I think at this point we still feel like that all the things that got us to those expectations back in the March time frame when we gave that are still in place and in play, and we expect to see some additional progress towards that as we think about '26 and then '27 certainly as well. And so in terms of kind of what we do with respect to longer-term guidance, I think it's we feel like it's a bit too early and again just given the demand that's in front of us, I don't know that it's the right time now to change anything.

但我認為，目前我們仍然覺得，所有讓我們在三月達到預期目標的因素仍然有效，我們預計，隨著我們展望 2026 年和 2027 年，我們將朝著這個目標取得一些進一步的進展。所以，就我們對長期指引所做的事情而言，我認為現在還為時過早，而且鑑於我們面臨的需求，我認為現在改變任何事情都不合適。

Great, thank you for getting my questions.

太好了，謝謝你接收我的問題。

Thank you. This concludes our question answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Joe Crivelli for any closing remarks.

謝謝。我們的問答環節到此結束。我謹將會議交還給喬·克里維利，請他作總結發言。

Thanks everybody for joining us today. If you have any follow-up questions or if you'd like to schedule additional time with the team, please send me an email at investors@vertexinc.com. Have a great rest of your day and we look forward to speaking with you in the coming weeks.

感謝各位今天收看。如果您有任何後續問題，或想安排更多時間與團隊溝通，請發送電子郵件至 investors@vertexinc.com。祝您今天餘下的時間愉快，我們期待在接下來的幾週內與您交流。

Thank you. The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

謝謝。會議已經結束。感謝各位參加今天的報告會。您現在可以斷開連線了。