VEON Ltd (VEON) 2026 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Hello, and welcome to VEON's 2Q '26 results presentation. (Operator Instructions) . Today's presentation will be followed by a Q&A session where we will take questions from the room as a reminder, this conference is being recorded today. If you have any objections, please disconnect at this time.

各位好，歡迎參加 VEON 2026 年第二季（2Q '26）業績簡報會。(接線員指示) 。今天的簡報之後將進行問答環節；提醒各位，我們將在現場提問，且本次會議正在錄音。如有任何異議，請此刻中斷連線。

Anand Ramachandran, you may begin.

Anand Ramachandran，您可以開始。

Thank you, Lucy. Good morning and good afternoon to everyone joining us for VEON's second quarter results. We are the largest NASDAQ-listed company in Dubai, and we are taking this opportunity to host this call out of New York and are very pleased to be able to doing that. So we thank the people in the room who've joined us. Thank you for the people who've joined us on the webcast.

謝謝你，Lucy。各位早安、午安，歡迎大家參加 VEON 第二季業績說明。我們是杜拜規模最大的那斯達克上市公司；我們也把握這個機會，從紐約主持本次電話會議，並非常高興能夠這麼做。因此，感謝在場與會的各位。也感謝透過網路直播加入的各位。

My name is Anand Ramachandran, Chief Corporate Development Officer. Let me introduce management in the room. Next to me is Kaan Terzioglu, our Group CEO; next to him, Burak Ozer, our Group CFO. As usual, Kaan will begin with the strategic and operational highlights, followed by Burak with a review of our financial performance, and we'll then open up the call for Q&A. Before we begin, do note that today's presentation contains some forward-looking statements involving risks and uncertainties. Further details are available in our SEC filings, including our Form 20-F. Our earnings release and presentation are also available on our Investor Relations website.

我叫 Anand Ramachandran，企業發展長（Chief Corporate Development Officer）。讓我介紹在場的管理團隊。我旁邊是集團執行長 Kaan Terzioglu；再旁邊是集團財務長 Burak Ozer。如同往常，Kaan 將先分享策略與營運重點，接著由 Burak 回顧財務表現，之後我們將開放問答。在開始之前，請注意今天的簡報包含若干前瞻性陳述，涉及風險與不確定性。更多細節請參閱我們向美國證券交易委員會（SEC）提交的文件，包括 Form 20-F。我們的財報新聞稿與簡報也已公布於投資人關係網站。

With that, let me hand the call over to Kaan.

接下來，我把電話交給 Kaan。

Thank you, Anand. Good morning, everyone. So exciting to have you in the room here in New York and do this earnings release here. Beyond excellent financial results, this quarter marks another important milestone in VEON's transformation. We are becoming much more than a telecommunications company. Today, VEON is building one of the world's largest digital ecosystems across emerging markets, combining connectivity, financial services, digital consumer platforms and enterprise solutions.

謝謝你，Anand。各位早安。很高興能在紐約與各位同聚一堂，並在這裡發布本次財報。除了優異的財務成果之外，本季也標誌著 VEON 轉型的另一個重要里程碑。我們正在成為一家遠不止於電信的公司。如今，VEON 正在新興市場打造全球規模最大的數位生態系之一，結合連線服務、金融服務、數位消費者平台與企業解決方案。

Our telecom networks connect more than 150 million customers. Our digital platforms deepen those relationships every day. The result is stronger growth, stronger cash generation and increasing shareholder returns. Most importantly, today's results give us the confidence to raise the outlook for the year.

我們的電信網路連結超過 1.5 億名客戶。我們的數位平台每天都在深化這些關係。其結果是更強勁的成長、更強的現金創造能力，以及不斷提升的股東報酬。最重要的是，今天的業績讓我們有信心上調全年展望。

Let me explain how we think about VEON today. Everything begins with connectivity. Connectivity is not the destination. It is our foundation. It is our competitive advantage. It gives us scale, it gives us distribution edge. It gives us trust, and it gives us daily engagement with millions of customers.

我來說明我們如今如何看待 VEON。一切始於連線能力。連線不是終點。它是我們的基礎。它是我們的競爭優勢。它帶來規模，帶來通路分發優勢。它帶來信任，也讓我們每天能與數百萬客戶互動。

On top of that foundation, we have built three digital growth engines - financial services, digital life, digital enterprise. They reinforce one another. Every new service strengthens the customer relationship. Customers stay longer. They spend more. They generate more data. Better data improves AI. Better AI creates better products. Better products create more cash. That cash allows us to invest again. That is the VEON Flywheel.

在這個基礎之上，我們建立了三個數位成長引擎——金融服務、數位生活、數位企業。它們彼此強化。每一項新服務都能加深客戶關係。客戶留存更久。消費更多。產生更多數據。更好的數據提升 AI。更好的 AI 創造更好的產品。更好的產品帶來更多現金。這些現金讓我們能再次投資。這就是 VEON 的飛輪效應。

Once you understand the Flywheel, results are much easier to understand. Growth is broad-based. Telecommunications continues to grow twice fast compared to traditional players. Digital is growing substantially faster, multiple times faster. Digital now contributes almost 27% of our total revenues. Cash generation continues to improve. Since August '24, we have already bought back $183 million worth of shares. Today, we are taking the next step.

一旦理解飛輪效應，業績就更容易理解。成長是全面性的。相較於傳統業者，電信業務仍以兩倍速度成長。數位業務成長顯著更快，是數倍的速度。數位業務目前貢獻我們總營收近 27%。現金創造能力持續改善。自 2024 年 8 月以來，我們已回購價值 1.83 億美元的股份。今天，我們將再往前一步。

Starting with this year, we commit to canceling at least $100 million of shares every year, not as a onetime action, but as a sustainable capital allocation framework. I am particularly pleased with the consistency of our execution. That consistency is why we are raising our full year guidance.

自今年起，我們承諾每年至少註銷 1 億美元的股份；這不是一次性的行動，而是一個可持續的資本配置框架。我對我們執行的一致性尤其感到滿意。正因為這份一致性，我們上調全年財測指引。

A little color. Reported EBITDA growth was affected by three exceptional accounting items. Bangladesh benefited from a provision release last year. Profit comparisons include the Pakistan Tower transaction last year. And this year, it includes the non-cash fair value adjustment on Kyivstar Group warrants. If you adjust for these items, our underlying business is even stronger. Revenue grew 18%, EBITDA grew more than 15%. Like-for-like earnings per share actually grew 88% year-on-year. This is the clearest measure of our true momentum.

補充一些說明。已報告的 EBITDA 成長受到三項一次性會計項目的影響。孟加拉去年受惠於準備金回轉。獲利比較包含去年巴基斯坦電塔交易的影響。而今年則包含 Kyivstar Group 認股權證的非現金公允價值調整。若剔除這些項目，我們的基本面更為強勁。營收成長 18%，EBITDA 成長超過 15%。按可比口徑計算的每股盈餘（EPS）年增實際達 88%。這是衡量我們真實動能最清楚的指標。

On the subject of consistency, Pakistan continues to deliver outstanding performance. Ukraine continues growing with extraordinary circumstances. Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Bangladesh all delivered. This matters. It tells us that VEON operating model is becoming repeatable across markets. Only a few years ago, digital represented a relatively small part of VEON. Today, digital has become one of our main growth engines. Our digital platforms now reach more than 227 million customers. Importantly, all three digital businesses are profitable - Financial Services, Digital Life, Digital Enterprise.

談到一致性，巴基斯坦持續交出卓越表現。烏克蘭在極其特殊的情況下仍持續成長。哈薩克、烏茲別克與孟加拉也都交出成果。這很重要。這告訴我們，VEON 的營運模式正逐步能在各市場複製。就在幾年前，數位業務在 VEON 中仍只占相對小的比重。如今，數位已成為我們主要的成長引擎之一。我們的數位平台目前觸及超過 2.27 億名客戶。重要的是，三大數位業務皆已獲利——金融服務、數位生活、數位企業。

They scale efficiently, they require less capital and they generate attractive returns. Digital revenues grew more than 53%. Digital EBITDA increased more than 66%. Digital is now generating profits and cash more than telecom business. Financial Services best demonstrates how the Flywheel works. We do not begin with lending. We begin with engagement. Customers use payments every day. Daily engagement builds trust. Trust creates data, data improves underwriting. Underwriting enables lending, insurance and wealth management.

它們具備高效率的規模化能力、資本需求較低，並能創造具吸引力的報酬。數位營收成長超過 53%。數位 EBITDA 增加超過 66%。數位業務如今創造的獲利與現金已超過電信業務。金融服務最能展現飛輪如何運作。我們不是從放款開始。我們從互動開始。客戶每天使用支付。每日互動建立信任。信任帶來數據，數據改善授信審核。授信審核能力進一步支撐放款、保險與財富管理。

Pakistan demonstrates this model at scale. JazzCash has evolved from a payments application into a complete financial ecosystem. Our acquisition of TPL Insurance represents another important milestone in that journey. And our Mastercard partnership will accelerate AI-enabled financial products across every market.

巴基斯坦以規模驗證了這個模式。JazzCash 已從支付應用程式演進為完整的金融生態系。我們收購 TPL Insurance，代表這段旅程的另一個重要里程碑。而我們與 Mastercard 的合作夥伴關係，將加速在各市場推出 AI 驅動的金融產品。

If there is one slide, I hope you will remember, it is this one. Connectivity brings customers. and digital deepens engagement. Engagement increases loyalty. Higher cash generation funds better products. Every turn of the wheel strengthens the next. That is why multiplay customers already generate significantly higher value and why we believe we are still in the early chapters of the story.

如果只能記住一張投影片，我希望各位記住這一張。連線帶來客戶，而數位深化互動。互動提升忠誠度。更高的現金創造能力支持更好的產品。飛輪每轉一圈，都會強化下一圈。這就是為什麼多重服務（multiplay）客戶已能創造顯著更高的價值，也為什麼我們相信故事仍在早期篇章。

With that, I will hand over to Burak to take you through the financials in more detail. Burak?

接下來，我把時間交給 Burak，請他更詳細帶各位看財務表現。Burak？

In second quarter, revenue grew 17% to $1.27 billion, with growth across all of our five markets. First half revenue also grew 17% to $2.47 billion (technical difficulty) 7.6% to $929 million, driven by disciplined pricing and rising customer engagement. Digital revenue grew 53.6%, reaching $342 million, reflecting broader adaptation across platforms and products plus our recent acquisitions.

第二季營收成長17%，達12.7億美元，且我們五個市場皆呈現成長。上半年營收亦成長17%，達24.7億美元（技術困難）7.6%至9.29億美元，主要受惠於嚴謹的定價策略與客戶互動度提升。數位營收成長53.6%，達3.42億美元，反映各平台與產品更廣泛的採用，以及我們近期的併購。

EBITDA reached $552 million, up 6.2% at a 43.4% margin. First half EBITDA grew 11.5% to USD 1.07 billion. Telecom and Infrastructure EBITDA were $428 million, down 3.8% at a 46.1% margin. As Kaan noted earlier, the year-on-year comparison reflects last year's Bangladesh provision release. Digital EBITDA grew 66.2% to $123 million. Digital is less capital intensive than telecom, and that's driving strong cash conversation as it scales.

EBITDA達5.52億美元，年增6.2%，EBITDA利潤率為43.4%。上半年EBITDA成長11.5%，達10.7億美元。電信與基礎設施EBITDA為4.28億美元，年減3.8%，利潤率為46.1%。如Kaan先前所提，年對年比較反映了去年孟加拉備抵回轉的影響。數位EBITDA成長66.2%，達1.23億美元。數位業務的資本密集度低於電信，隨著規模擴大，正推動強勁的現金轉換。

Profit and EPS for the period reflects $489 million of gain on the Pakistan tower sale in second quarter of last year and a $22 million fair value loss on KGL warrants in this quarter. Cash generation was strong in the period. Operating cash flow rose 238% in the quarter to $463 million and 51% for the first half to $860 million. Equity free cash flow after leases and licenses grew 47.5% for the first half to $320 million. EFCF for the second quarter was impacted by prepayment of taxes in Pakistan that will not reoccur.

本期的獲利與每股盈餘（EPS）反映了去年第二季出售巴基斯坦電塔所帶來的4.89億美元收益，以及本季KGL認股權證2,200萬美元的公允價值損失。本期現金創造表現強勁。本季營運現金流年增238%至4.63億美元，上半年年增51%至8.60億美元。扣除租賃與牌照後的股權自由現金流（EFCF）上半年成長47.5%至3.20億美元。第二季EFCF受到巴基斯坦預繳稅款影響，該項影響不會再發生。

Now turning to the balance sheet and capital allocation. We ended the quarter with $2.2 billion in cash, including $468 million at headquarters. Net debt, excluding leases, was $1.8 billion with lease adjusted leverage at 1.1 times. We completed a $1.4 billion bond offering this quarter, substantially addressing our 2027 maturities ahead of schedule and extending average headquarters debt maturity beyond four years. With that, I'll hand the call back to Kaan.

接下來談資產負債表與資本配置。本季末我們持有22億美元現金，其中總部持有4.68億美元。不含租賃的淨負債為18億美元，經租賃調整後的槓桿倍數為1.1倍。本季我們完成14億美元的債券發行，提前且大幅處理了2027年到期債務，並將總部債務的平均到期年限延長至四年以上。接下來我把電話交回給Kaan。

Thank you, Burak. Let me return to capital allocation. Since August '24, we have bought back $183 million of shares. We delivered exactly what we said we would. Now we are institutionalizing that discipline. Beginning this year, we will cancel at least $100 million of shares annually. Returning capital to shareholders is now part of our long-term financial framework.

謝謝你，Burak。我回到資本配置的議題。自2024年8月以來，我們已回購1.83億美元的股份。我們完全兌現了我們所說會做到的事。現在我們正把這份紀律制度化。自今年起，我們每年至少將註銷1億美元的股份。回饋股東資本如今已成為我們長期財務框架的一部分。

We are seeing strong execution. Digital is scaling faster than expected. Cash generation continues to strengthen. And as a result, we are increasing our guidance. Revenue growth is now expected to be 15% to 18%. EBITDA growth is now expected to be 9% to 12%. Our capital expenditure outlook remains unchanged. These revisions reflect confidence in the underlying strength of our business. Looking ahead, please join us at our Capital Markets Day in New York on November 16.

我們看到強勁的執行力。數位業務的擴張速度快於預期。現金創造持續增強。因此，我們上調指引。目前預期營收成長為15%至18%。目前預期EBITDA成長為9%至12%。我們的資本支出展望維持不變。這些調整反映我們對業務基本面強勁的信心。展望未來，歡迎於11月16日在紐約參加我們的資本市場日。

There we will present the next chapter of VEON's long-term strategy and value creation. Let me leave you with one thought. Connectivity provides the foundation. Digital creates the growth and the Flywheel generates the returns. Our second quarter results demonstrate that this strategy is working.

屆時我們將介紹VEON長期策略與價值創造的下一篇章。最後留給各位一個想法。連結性提供基礎。數位帶來成長，而飛輪機制創造報酬。我們第二季的成果證明這項策略正在奏效。

And I believe we are only at the beginning. Thank you very much. Operator, now we can take the questions.

而我相信我們才剛開始。非常感謝各位。主持人，現在我們可以開始提問。

Operator, may I suggest we start with questions in the room, (Event Instructions)

主持人，我建議我們先從現場的提問開始，(活動指示)

Tim?

Tim？

Jesse with BTIG. Of the guidance increase, how much was currency and how much was organic? And where are you specifically seeing outperformance versus original expectations?

我是BTIG的Jesse。關於上調指引，其中有多少來自匯率因素、有多少來自有機成長？另外，具體而言，你們在哪些方面的表現優於原先預期？

So, as I mentioned, consistency was one of the key drivers. You may notice a little bit out-of-cycle results from Kazakhstan, but this is normal, and it is fundamentally due to the VAT regulations change in the country, which was a six percentage points increase. Now in the concept of how much of this devaluation, how much is performance, our business model is very simple.

如我提到的，一致性是其中一個關鍵驅動因素。你可能會注意到哈薩克出現一些非週期性的結果，但這是正常的，根本原因是該國增值稅（VAT）法規變更，稅率上調了6個百分點。至於這當中有多少是貨幣貶值、有多少是營運表現，我們的商業模式非常簡單。

The way to do business in frontier markets in emerging markets relies on your ability to continuously in a disciplined way to adjust your prices with nominal GDP growth. And we rely on the fact that GDP and GDP growth is the best indicator of our wallet share success.

在新興市場、前沿市場經營的方式，取決於你是否能以有紀律的方式，隨名目GDP成長持續調整價格。我們也依賴這樣的事實：GDP及其成長是衡量我們錢包占有率成功與否的最佳指標。

Now devaluation and inflation will converge in three-, five-, seven-year cycles. We are keeping our discipline on that front. And currently, we are expecting actually about 9.5% inflation in weighted average in our markets. This is up from 8%. And the overall devaluation is 3% less than what we have expected to happen.

貶值與通膨會在三年、五年、七年的週期中趨於一致。我們在這方面維持紀律。目前我們預期在各市場加權平均的通膨約為9.5%。這高於先前的8%。而整體貶值幅度則比我們原先預期將發生的情況少3%。

From a currency perspective, the currency assumptions in Q1 versus Q2 did not change. So it was mainly organic from a growth perspective.

從匯率角度來看，第一季與第二季的匯率假設並未改變。因此，從成長角度而言，主要是有機成長所致。

Vincent Fernando from Zero One Investment Research. Just want to talk a bit about your financial services business. So, I see that you've achieved about 45% year-over-year growth in the first half. What's the latest in terms of your regulatory kind of, I guess, development outlook, particularly with Bangladesh. So maybe you could talk about the latest for Pakistan, which I know is much more mature, Bangladesh and Ukraine, which is very early, but do you start to have an outlook for Ukraine, maybe even when new licenses might be available, et cetera?

我是Zero One Investment Research的Vincent Fernando。我想談談你們的金融服務業務。我看到你們上半年年對年成長約45%。就監管面而言，尤其是孟加拉，你們最新的進展與展望是什麼？也許你可以談談巴基斯坦（我知道那邊成熟得多）、孟加拉與烏克蘭（仍非常早期）的最新情況；另外，對烏克蘭是否已開始形成一些展望，例如何時可能取得新的牌照等等？

So let me, first of all, give a little bit of a color on our business. Our business is really doing extremely well in Pakistan. We have 60 million bank accounts on a monthly basis, 27 million active users of our platform, JazzCash. We issue 225,000 nano loans every single day. We transact close to 16% of Pakistan's GDP.

我先為我們的業務補充一些背景。我們在巴基斯坦的業務表現非常出色。我們每月有6,000萬個銀行帳戶、平台JazzCash有2,700萬名活躍用戶。我們每天發放225,000筆奈米貸款。我們的交易量接近巴基斯坦GDP的16%。

We have 1.6 million merchants on our network. We are a financial giant when it comes to the landscape. Naturally, with that comes a responsibility to work hand-in-hand with the authorities, including Finance Ministry and Central Bank to make sure that we are basically serving the people in the right levels. I'm confident that the regulatory environment will also support us to expand our capacity to even grow our lending potential.

我們的網路上有160萬家商戶。就整體版圖而言，我們是一個金融巨頭。當然，這也帶來與主管機關（包括財政部與中央銀行）密切合作的責任，以確保我們基本上是在適當的層級服務民眾。我有信心監管環境也會支持我們擴大能力，進一步提升放貸成長潛力。

We would actually, this success we believe, is quite repeatable in other markets, especially in Bangladesh and in Uzbekistan. That's why we are working again with the new government of Bangladesh in terms of creating the right platform for us to launch which we will start with payment services and later on move into full-scale financial ecosystem in Bangladesh as well. And I expect that to happen in Q3.

我們相信這項成功在其他市場也相當可複製，尤其是在孟加拉與烏茲別克。因此，我們正再次與孟加拉新政府合作，打造適合我們推出服務的平台；我們將先從支付服務開始，之後再在孟加拉推進至完整規模的金融生態系。我預期這會在第三季發生。

With regard to our operations in Uzbekistan, in order to accelerate deployment of similar services in all the countries, we are looking forward to getting necessary digital banking licenses in every single market we have. We do have already payment solutions and digital wallets in Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan. In Ukraine, we are looking for the regulatory environment to allow us also to proceed in the same direction.

關於我們在烏茲別克的營運，為了加速在所有國家部署類似服務，我們期待在我們所進入的每一個市場取得必要的數位銀行牌照。我們在烏茲別克與哈薩克已經有支付解決方案與數位錢包。在烏克蘭，我們正在觀察監管環境是否允許我們也朝同樣方向推進。

Ukraine (inaudible) to kind of have a halfway solution before you can have your own full license that you work with, maybe a bank to start building a financial services type of platform.

烏克蘭（聽不清）某種程度上會先有一個過渡性的方案，在你能取得並運作自己的完整牌照之前，可能先與一家銀行合作，開始打造一個金融服務類型的平台。

It's early to give you a clear answer on that. But clearly, we will be looking for every possible business model in terms of how we can serve our customers the way they deserve the service.

現在要給你一個明確的答案還太早。但很清楚的是，我們會就如何以客戶應得的方式服務他們，尋找所有可能的商業模式。

Tim Ryan, Oppenheimer. You have a great relationship with SpaceX and Starlink. Could you just describe that relationship, how it's evolving? Also, how is the quality of the service that they're providing to you? And how do you think that changes that connectivity changes these value-added services over time based on the fact that we're going to have connectivity almost everywhere?

Tim Ryan，Oppenheimer。你們與SpaceX和Starlink的關係非常好。你能否描述一下這段關係，以及它如何演進？另外，他們提供給你們的服務品質如何？以及基於我們幾乎將在任何地方都有連線這一點，你認為這種連線能力的改變，會如何隨時間推移改變這些加值服務？

As I mentioned, connectivity is the foundation. It's our competitive advantage. And there is no excuse for it is not to be available. It has to be ubiquitous. It has to be affordable, accessible because all our business model relies on that connectivity in the Digital Services part.

如我所提到的，連線是基礎。這是我們的競爭優勢。而它不該不可用，沒有任何藉口。它必須無所不在。它必須可負擔、可取得，因為我們在數位服務部分的整個商業模式都仰賴這個連線。

Now if you assess the situation in different countries, we operate in emerging markets and frontier markets. In Ukraine, there's an ongoing war going on. And there are cases where our infrastructure, terrestrial infrastructure may not be accessible due to land mines. It might be on the front line. There might be energy outages. And in those cases, we have observed that it is essential to integrate our terrestrial network with the satellite platforms, and that's exactly what we did.

如果你評估不同國家的情況，我們營運於新興市場與前沿市場。在烏克蘭，戰爭仍在進行。有些情況下，我們的基礎設施、地面基礎設施可能因地雷而無法到達。它可能在前線。也可能有能源中斷。在這些情況下，我們觀察到將地面網路與衛星平台整合至關重要，而這正是我們所做的。

As of last quarter, more than six million people utilized the capabilities of connecting their smartphones without any other additional equipment directly to satellites and utilize messaging and live data services. This is remarkable because if you think about it, this allows us to be relevant to our customers literally every single minute in a day. And also, it gives us the advantage that being a trusted partner when it comes to connectivity.

截至上季，超過600萬人利用了讓智慧型手機在不需要任何額外設備的情況下直接連上衛星、並使用訊息與即時數據服務的能力。這非常了不起，因為如果你想想看，這讓我們在一天中的每一分鐘都能與客戶保持相關性。同時，這也讓我們在連線方面成為值得信賴的合作夥伴，具備優勢。

We are expanding these capabilities to other markets to Kazakhstan to Bangladesh. We do not see Starlink as a substitution. We are complementary to each other. And we are naturally in our markets in sovereign countries with soar regulations protected in a way to keep our license and our technical responsibilities in each country to serve the populations in a safe and secure manner. I look forward to extending our partnership with Starlink, but also clearly, there is going to be many other alternatives.

我們正把這些能力擴展到其他市場，包括哈薩克與孟加拉。我們不把Starlink視為替代方案。我們彼此互補。而且在我們的市場中，各主權國家都有嚴格的監管；這些監管以某種方式保護我們，使我們能在各國維持牌照並履行技術責任，以安全可靠的方式服務民眾。我期待延伸我們與Starlink的合作，但同時也很清楚，未來還會有許多其他替代選項。

We will do our best to make sure that our customers are always connected so that they can always do financial services on our platforms. They can always do access marketplaces, healthcare services, education services, entertainment services if they are our customers on connectivity side.

我們會盡最大努力確保客戶始終保持連線，讓他們能隨時在我們的平台上使用金融服務。如果他們是我們連線端的客戶，他們也能隨時使用市集、醫療健康服務、教育服務、娛樂服務。

So I know you've had text for a little while, and that sounded like it was working well. How is the data connectivity going? And related to that, too, do you have an exclusivity for a period of time with them?

所以我知道你們的簡訊服務已經有一段時間了，聽起來運作得不錯。那數據連線的進展如何？另外相關地，你們是否在一段期間內與他們有排他性合作？

First, in terms of quality, we have initiated the light data services in Ukraine, and we are optimizing certain applications. And Sasha is also here, our CEO in Ukraine. And those applications are optimized in a way that they can function in this light data environment. We do not have exclusivity. I do not believe in exclusivity. Customers have the exclusivity to select their telecom operators when it is necessary.

首先，就品質而言，我們已在烏克蘭啟動輕量數據服務，並正在優化某些應用程式。Sasha也在這裡，他是我們烏克蘭的執行長。這些應用程式的優化方式，使其能在這種輕量數據環境中運作。我們沒有排他性。我不相信排他性。在有需要時，客戶才擁有選擇其電信營運商的排他權。

Thank you. I don't see any other questions in the room. So operator, shall we pass to the online attendees for their questions.

謝謝。我看現場沒有其他問題。那麼，接線員，我們是否轉到線上與會者提問。

(Operator Instructions)

（接線員指示）

Nicholas Paton, Edison Group.

Nicholas Paton，Edison Group。

A couple of questions. So, the first one on the guidance. I'm struck by how much the guidance has changed since the full year '25 numbers. So, at the low end of the guidance, full year '25, we're at 9% and we're now at 18% for the top end of the guidance for second quarter. And on EBITDA, we've gone from 5% at the low end to now 12% at the top end.

有幾個問題。第一個是關於指引。我注意到，自2025全年數字以來，指引變動幅度很大。所以，在指引的低端，2025全年我們是9%，而現在第二季指引的高端是18%。在EBITDA方面，我們從低端的5%變成現在高端的12%。

Can you just run us through briefly, the key drivers of that change. And I guess the question from investors is, what makes you so sure that you can achieve those numbers now when you were unsure you couldn't achieve those numbers at the top end of the scale at the full year '25 numbers?

你能否簡要帶我們了解一下，造成這個變化的關鍵驅動因素？我想投資人的問題是：當你們在2025全年數字時對於能否達到區間高端還不確定，現在是什麼讓你們如此確信可以達到這些數字？

And the second question is regarding the new businesses. I mean the numbers are, I'm going to hate myself for saying this, but they really are an impressive set of numbers. And the digital businesses have been growing like crazy. But when you look at the digital businesses, let's say, three to five years in time, are you still able to leverage the capital returns that come from the established fixed asset base? Or do you have to invest more in the fixed asset base?

第二個問題是關於新業務。我的意思是，這些數字——我會討厭自己這麼說——但它們確實是一組令人印象深刻的數字。而數位業務一直在瘋狂成長。但當你看數位業務，比如三到五年後，你們是否仍能利用既有固定資產基礎所帶來的資本回報？還是你們必須在固定資產基礎上投入更多？

And how do those returns on capital change between the core telecom business and the digital business, let's say, in three to five years' time? And I'm reminded of your answer, Kaan, I think it was on the first quarter, and maybe it was the full year numbers when you went through the difference between the digital and the core telecom returns on capital, I thought that was a very interesting and instructive answer. So, I'd be interested to hear an update on that and to hear how you think those capital returns change through time.

而在三到五年後，核心電信業務與數位業務之間的資本報酬率會如何變化？我想起你之前的回答，Kaan，我記得是在第一季，也可能是在全年數字時，你談到數位與核心電信在資本回報上的差異，我覺得那個回答非常有趣且具啟發性。所以我也想聽聽最新的看法，以及你認為這些資本回報會如何隨時間改變。

Nicholas, thank you very much. Actually, you're absolutely right. I wish we could have been more precise two quarters ago. But Flywheel is working and Flywheel is working better than we expected. And as you have rightly pointed in your second part of your question, it is growing.

Nicholas，非常感謝。其實你完全說得對。我希望兩個季度前我們能更精準。但飛輪效應正在運作，而且運作得比我們預期更好。正如你在問題第二部分正確指出的，它正在成長。

It is growing 50%, 60% year-on-year, and it is beyond what we have expected. But it's not only about the top line growth. The EBITDA growth of Digital Services is also above our expectations, significantly above. Actually, EBITDA grew 66%.

它年增50%、60%，超出我們的預期。但這不僅僅是營收成長。數位服務的EBITDA成長也高於我們的預期，顯著高於預期。實際上，EBITDA成長了66%。

So the margin on the Digital Services is expanding as well. So those two things combined gives us the confidence to raise our guidance. And I think what we see, it's a sustainable business model. We are systematically seeing that more customers are embracing our solutions. and we still have room to sustain this growth. When it comes to cash-generative capacity. Now our original business idea a year ago when I talked with you that the Digital Services would deliver a margin of 20% to 25%.

因此，數位服務的利潤率也在擴張。這兩件事結合起來，讓我們有信心上調指引。而我認為我們看到的是一個可持續的商業模式。我們系統性地看到更多客戶正在採用我們的解決方案，而且我們仍有空間維持這樣的成長。至於現金創造能力。我們一年前的原始商業構想是——當時我和你談到——數位服務將帶來20%到25%的利潤率。

We are at 36%. And Digital Services has a CapEx to revenue ratio of 7%, 36%, minus 7% makes 29%. On the foundation side, we do have a margin of 45% and 20% goes to CapEx, and you end up with 25%. So actually, that's why I'm saying the Digital Services cash generation capacity has exceeded our expectations as a business model a year ago, which I'm very happy to see. Having said that, please don't forget foundation. is our competitive edge. And we will not stop investing in that. And we will keep investing in where it is necessary, just like in Pakistan, we have recently bought some spectrum.

我們目前是36%。而數位服務的資本支出（CapEx）對營收比率為7%，36%減去7%就是29%。在基礎業務方面，我們的利潤率是45%，其中20%用於資本支出，最後就是25%。所以其實這就是為什麼我說，數位服務的現金創造能力相較於一年前我們對商業模式的預期更好，看到這點我非常高興。話雖如此，請不要忘記基礎業務是我們的競爭優勢。我們不會停止在這方面的投資。而且我們會在必要之處持續投資，就像在巴基斯坦，我們最近買了一些頻譜。

We are now lighting up the spectrum for 4G, extended 4G and 5G. We will do exactly the same in our other markets. But the balance of our growth coming from digital will slowly actually put us in a better position in terms of cash generation capacity. And I'm happy that it is happening faster than we expected. I apologize that the expectation was not spot on two quarters ago, but I think we are on the right side of that equation.

我們現在正在點亮這些頻譜，用於4G、延伸4G以及5G。我們在其他市場也會做完全相同的事情。但我們的成長動能中，來自數位的比重提升，將會逐步讓我們在現金創造能力方面處於更有利的位置。我很高興這件事發生得比我們預期更快。我為兩個季度前的預期不夠精準致歉，但我認為我們在這個等式上站在正確的一邊。

Can, if I may just add on to that. At the end of first quarter, I think we pointed out that we wanted to see how the macro impact of what was happening in the Middle East and oil prices weighed on operations. So we've made a very clear point of, therefore, our holding on EBITDA just to get better clarity on how things evolved. And clearly, sitting here today, it's pleasing to see that they've turned out better than we thought, not just on the margin side, but also on the revenue side.

如果可以的話，我想補充一下。在第一季末，我想我們提到過，我們希望觀察中東局勢與油價變動的總體影響，會如何影響營運。因此我們非常明確地表示，我們暫時維持EBITDA的指引不變，以便更清楚了解事態如何演變。而很明顯地，今天坐在這裡看到結果比我們想的更好，令人欣慰，不僅在利潤率方面，在營收方面也是如此。

So I think that's also the additional fact that I wanted to point out that leads to where we are today relative to year-end. And last, on your CapEx question, whether we will spend more in the future? Yes, but the CapEx ratio will not go over 7% with the growth in revenue accelerating. So definitely, we'll stay with the same CapEx ratios on our digital businesses.

所以我想這也是我想指出的額外因素，使得我們今天相較於年末處於目前的位置。最後，關於你的資本支出問題：未來我們會不會花更多？會，但隨著營收成長加速，CapEx比率不會超過7%。所以我們肯定會在數位業務上維持相同的CapEx比率。

Sorry, just to follow up, 7% CapEx to sales for the digital businesses in isolation.

抱歉，我想追問一下，7%是指數位業務單獨來看，CapEx對銷售的比率嗎？

Yes, that's today what we spend.

是的，這就是我們目前的支出水準。

Yes. But you're saying that it won't go above that in the future either.

是。但你的意思是，未來也不會高於這個水準。

Yes, because of the growth in the revenue projections.

是的，因為營收預測會成長。

I would expect it to decline in a way.

我反而預期它會以某種方式下降。

And business is evolving. I think the message is we're very pleased with the momentum of the business. Business is evolving. Margins are turning out better than where we expected. The Flywheel, as Kaan pointed out, is working and working incredibly well, and we take it as we go along.

而且業務正在演進。我想重點是，我們對業務動能非常滿意。業務正在演進。利潤率表現優於我們原先的預期。正如Kaan所指出的，飛輪效應正在運作，而且運作得非常好，我們會邊走邊看、順勢而為。

But as things stand, as Burak pointed out, we expect this business to continue to generate pretty material cash. And as the business grows, hopefully, we continue and see it progressing in the same direction.

但就目前而言，正如Burak所指出的，我們預期這項業務將持續產生相當可觀的現金。而隨著業務成長，希望我們能持續看到它朝同樣的方向推進。

Adrian Cundy, Emerging & Frontier Capital.

Adrian Cundy，新興與前沿資本（Emerging & Frontier Capital）。

I have two questions. One about just sort of your use of headquarter liquidity going forward, given that you've really turned the corner on the debt restructuring and that you've moved into a positive free cash flow to equity profile. Nearly $1 billion of cash at the headquarters and no major repayments until out beyond what you're upstreaming 2031, 2033. Can we sort of expect further reinvestment of that cash into any of the key countries, particularly if they need to capitalize digital bank?

我有兩個問題。第一個是關於未來你們如何使用總部流動性：鑑於你們在債務重組方面已經真正轉折，並且已轉為對股東的自由現金流為正的狀態。總部有接近10億美元現金，而且在2031、2033年（超出你們上游匯回的期限）之前沒有重大償付。我們是否可以預期，這些現金會進一步再投資到任何關鍵國家，特別是如果它們需要為數位銀行注資？

Or do you think you can continue to grow those opcos with their domestic cash flows? And M&A broadly, is that now new markets that are you keeping an eye on given that you have dry powder at the headquarters? That's my first question.

或者你認為這些營運公司（opcos）可以持續用其本地現金流來成長？另外，廣義的併購（M&A）方面，鑑於總部有充足的資金彈藥，你們是否正在留意新的市場？這是我的第一個問題。

Now my second question comes down to sort of the coming back to the capital and CapEx intensity, and thank you for the 7% number just now. 5G launching in Pakistan, Uzbekistan talking about significant investment in 5G post the sale of Mobiuz, 40% of subs by 2030, something as I saw a headline. Kazakhstan, obviously, Bangladesh will come.

第二個問題是回到資本與CapEx強度，謝謝你剛才提供的7%數字。巴基斯坦啟動5G，烏茲別克在出售Mobiuz之後談到在5G上進行重大投資，到2030年用戶中40%之類的（我看到一則標題）。哈薩克斯坦，當然還有孟加拉也會跟進。

And then there is Starlink. What do the relative margins look like between a Starlink data ARPU versus a terrestrial ARPU on 5G, which is more profitable? And what do you sort of see the balance of? And where will you be focusing your 5G investment? And are you confident that you can continue extended 4G, early-stage 5G in high-density areas at the current CapEx sales ratios?

然後還有Starlink。Starlink的數據ARPU相較於地面5G的ARPU，兩者的相對利潤率看起來如何，哪一個更有利可圖？你們如何看待兩者的平衡？你們的5G投資會聚焦在哪裡？你們是否有信心在目前的CapEx對銷售比率下，持續推進延伸4G、以及在人口密集區的早期5G？

Adrian, let me first start with the part about M&A. We are extremely disciplined when it comes to decisions about growing through inorganic means. Now naturally, there are very accretive in-market consolidation opportunities that we will always be looking after. But I truly believe that our stock price at today trading at 3.5 times EBITDA is not at the level that we would be looking into acquisitions at a broad level. And I will keep that discipline very, very strong over the next couple of years.

Adrian，我先從併購（M&A）的部分開始。在透過非有機方式成長的決策上，我們極度自律。當然，市場內整併有非常具增益性的機會，我們一直都會關注。但我真心認為，以我們目前股價約為EBITDA的3.5倍來看，並不是我們會在更廣泛層面上積極進行收購的估值水準。而在未來幾年，我會非常、非常嚴格地維持這份自律。

So that's number one. But of course, in-market consolidation, naturally accretive synergies, these are things that we will be in the market continuously. Now you asked about the profitability of Starlink versus our other networks, terrestrial networks. If you look to the cost of producing mobile data via terrestrial networks in terms of deployment of towers, equipment, et cetera, versus having access to satellite connectivity. And let me give you an example in Kazakhstan.

這是第一點。但當然，市場內整併、自然具增益的協同效應，這些都是我們會持續在市場上關注的事情。你也問到Starlink相較於我們其他網路、也就是地面網路的獲利能力。如果你看透過地面網路生產行動數據的成本，包括建置基地台、設備等等，對比取得衛星連線的成本。我用哈薩克斯坦舉個例子。

Kazakhstan, the size of Kazakhstan is probably bigger than the entire United States and 20 million people live there. If I would try to deliver license requirements just in railways and roads based on terrestrial networks, it would cost me a fortune. So, I do not see actually cost differentials or additional cost when it comes to access to satellite platforms. I consider it actually quite reasonable when it comes to comparing the cost of satellite connectivity versus terrestrial connectivity.

哈薩克斯坦的面積可能比整個美國還大，但只有2,000萬人口住在那裡。如果我試圖僅靠地面網路來滿足在鐵路與道路上的牌照要求，那會花我一大筆錢。因此，在取得衛星平台接入方面，我其實看不到成本差異或額外成本。在比較衛星連線與地面連線成本時，我認為衛星連線其實相當合理。

Having said that, this is not about substituting terrestrial networks, fiber networks with satellites. It's complementing it when it is needed. And I think with that regard, the utility value to the customer definitely is much higher than the cost of the technology it brings.

話雖如此，這並不是要用衛星取代地面網路、光纖網路。而是在需要的時候加以互補。我認為在這方面，對客戶的效用價值肯定遠高於其所帶來的技術成本。

And just to add to that, as Kaan said during the presentation, we will definitely use cash for shareholder return. On top of that, he just mentioned the M&A opportunities that we have in order to grow our business for in-market consolidation and maybe on the fintech side in priority. Last but not least, we will be addressing some higher cost debt that is sitting on the balance sheet today to make sure that we kind of balance the cost to debt ratio there in terms of interest expenses.

再補充一下，正如Kaan在簡報中所說，我們一定會用現金來回饋股東。此外，他剛提到我們為了透過市場內整併來擴大業務、以及可能優先在金融科技（fintech）領域的併購機會。最後但同樣重要的是，我們也會處理目前資產負債表上部分成本較高的債務，以確保在利息費用方面，能在債務成本與債務比率之間取得平衡。

Matthew Harrigan, Benchmark StoneX.

Matthew Harrigan，Benchmark StoneX。

Great. Firstly, when you look at the digital side, I mean, clearly, you're a market leader in some areas where there's very substantial TAM witnessed in other markets, and you can see a really nice growth curve all the way around. But you're also involved on the LLM side as a critical player working with Google Gemma and COSCO clearly. How do you see the utility of LLM models developing for your Frontier markets? And are they eventually monetizable in concert with your partners?

很好。首先，從數位面來看，我的意思是，很明顯你們在某些領域是市場領導者，而在其他市場也已經驗證了非常可觀的 TAM（可服務總市場），你可以看到整體呈現非常漂亮的成長曲線。但你們同時也在 LLM 方面扮演關鍵角色，顯然與 Google Gemma 以及 COSCO 合作。你如何看待 LLM 模型在你們前沿市場的效用將如何發展？以及它們最終是否能與合作夥伴協同變現？

And then secondly, clearly, in some other markets, you'd be trading at, people would be talking about targets of 5 times EV to sales rather than 5 times EV to EBITDA. But when you think about valuation without giving out a number, I mean clearly, Pakistan is one of the cheaper markets in the world, I mean, even relative to the Morgan Stanley MSCI for your markets basket. But how do you feel about valuation in terms of, I mean, should be people to be doing 10-year models rather than 5-year models? I mean, growth rates relative to GDP?

第二點，很明顯，在其他一些市場，你們的交易估值會是——人們會談論 5 倍 EV/營收，而不是 5 倍 EV/EBITDA。但當你思考估值、又不給出具體數字時，我的意思是，很明顯巴基斯坦是全球最便宜的市場之一，甚至相較於摩根士丹利 MSCI 的你們市場籃子也是如此。但你對估值的看法是——我的意思是，人們是否應該做 10 年模型而不是 5 年模型？也就是成長率相對於 GDP？

I mean, do you think you get a fundamental re-rating of Pakistan or clearly, Ukraine, I mean, if that starts trading like Poland, you've got an immediate pop in Kyivstar. But just kind of playing in a capital markets professor, just any thoughts you had on valuation without trying to say, I know you're not going to say what you think your stock is worth. And congratulations on the results and guidance.

我的意思是，你是否認為巴基斯坦會出現基本面的重新評級？或者很明顯，烏克蘭也是——我的意思是，如果它開始像波蘭那樣交易，你的 Kyivstar 會立刻跳升。但就像以資本市場教授的角度來聊聊，你對估值有沒有任何想法——不需要試著說出你認為股票值多少，我知道你不會說。也恭喜你們的業績與指引。

Yes. Thank you, Matthew. Let me start with the second question you asked because clearly, we will be this year doing more than $0.5 billion of sales, and maybe I'm on the low side giving this number in Pakistan alone on financial services. And if you look to the benchmarks, financial services businesses of this nature, is just about to be IPO-ed for 7, 7.5 times the revenues, not EBITDA. So clearly, this excites me a lot because it shows the value that we are creating in the marketplace.

是的。謝謝你，Matthew。我先從你問的第二個問題開始，因為很明顯，我們今年的營收將超過 5 億美元，而且也許我給的數字還偏保守——僅在巴基斯坦的金融服務就有這個規模。如果你看同類基準，這類型的金融服務業務正準備以 IPO 上市，估值是營收的 7 倍、7.5 倍，而不是 EBITDA 倍數。所以這顯然讓我非常振奮，因為這顯示我們在市場上正在創造的價值。

Now Pakistan is a $2 billion run rate business for us. Among that, about $0.5 billion coming from financial services shows the potential of the country, 250 million people and 20 million outside of Pakistan. I think it's a unique market. We are blessed to be given the chance to serve Pakistan around the world, and we will continue investing.

現在，巴基斯坦對我們而言是一個年化 20 億美元規模的業務。其中約 5 億美元來自金融服務，這顯示了這個國家的潛力——2.5 億人口，以及在巴基斯坦以外的 2,000 萬人。我認為這是一個獨特的市場。我們很幸運有機會為全球的巴基斯坦人提供服務，我們也會持續投資。

And I think the question you asked whether the valuations would reflect that, markets always get it right, and I'm confident in that. So, time will show it. Now looking to the first question you asked, AI. I was reading today the CEO of Ooredoo making a very relevant comment. He says, I am seeing AI everywhere, except for P&L. But in reality, there is, I believe, a fundamental reality we have to focus on.

至於你問估值是否會反映這些，市場終究會給出正確答案，我對此有信心。所以時間會證明一切。再回到你問的第一個問題：AI。我今天讀到 Ooredoo 的 CEO 發表了一個非常貼切的評論。他說：我到處都看到 AI，唯獨在損益表（P&L）上看不到。但實際上，我相信我們必須聚焦在一個根本現實。

Value proposition, right? A company exists because it proposes a value to the customer. Customers matter still. The old type telecom companies, what is their value proposition? Number of minutes, number of SMSs, number of gigabytes.

價值主張，對吧？一家公司之所以存在，是因為它向客戶提出一個價值。客戶仍然最重要。傳統電信公司的價值主張是什麼？通話分鐘數、簡訊數量、以及 GB 流量。

A digital operator, the transformation we have been going through for three, four years now sells meaningful Digital Services. It's not enough. AI will change this as well. We will be providing customers an intelligence platform. And I don't like to talk about this super intelligence quantum this and that. It's simple. We provide customers a chance to become superheroes, a doctor, a better doctor, a teacher, a better teacher, a farmer, a more productive farmer, a small business owner to be more efficient.

作為一家數位營運商，我們過去三、四年正在進行的轉型，是在銷售有意義的數位服務。但這還不夠。AI 也將改變這一點。我們將為客戶提供一個智慧平台。我不喜歡談什麼超級智慧、量子之類的。其實很簡單。我們讓客戶有機會成為「超級英雄」——醫生，成為更好的醫生；老師，成為更好的老師；農民，成為更高產的農民；小企業主，變得更有效率。

A value proposition like a better version of yourself for $2 a month for $0.50 a transaction, I think is unbeatable. And that's where we are heading. And that's our AI strategy. It will be all about sovereign LLMs. It will be all about embedding AI into our super apps, which has more than 65 million users today.

像是「更好的你」這樣的價值主張——每月 2 美元，或每筆交易 0.50 美元——我認為是無可匹敵的。而這就是我們前進的方向。這就是我們的 AI 策略。它將完全圍繞主權 LLM。也將完全圍繞把 AI 嵌入我們的超級 App，而該 App 目前已有超過 6,500 萬用戶。

We do not have a problem of customer acquisition cost. We have a speed to market, bringing these LLMs at the fingertips of 600 million people. I see a huge revenue potential. And we are working with every single country in our portfolio, developing these LLMs. I believe developing sovereign LLMs is by itself a business, but developing data inference capacity for the customers is another business. And those are the things that we are working on.

我們沒有客戶獲取成本的問題。我們擁有上市速度，能把這些 LLM 帶到 6 億人的指尖。我看到巨大的營收潛力。我們正與投資組合中的每一個國家合作，開發這些 LLM。我相信，開發主權 LLM 本身就是一門生意，但為客戶開發資料推論能力又是另一門生意。而這些正是我們在做的事情。

If I could add, Kaan, I think, Matt, as you're aware, Kaan mentioned $182 million of stock bought back to date. So, I think that's a very clear indication of management's perception of the stock being significantly undervalued. Today, we've again announced we're going to cancel minimum $100 million of stock per year. So, this is the velocity with free cash flow as we generate that should be the clearest vindication reflection of what we think about the stock price.

如果我可以補充一下，Kaan，我想，Matt，如你所知，Kaan 提到截至目前已回購 1.82 億美元的股票。所以我認為這非常清楚地表明管理層認為股價被顯著低估。今天我們也再次宣布，我們將每年至少註銷 1 億美元的股票。因此，隨著我們產生自由現金流，並以這樣的速度推進，這應該是最清楚、最能證明我們對股價看法的反映。

Clearly, you're the experts, you're doing your own numbers. As Kaan mentioned, there are comparables out there. But from our perspective, to generate that cash and use it to basically reflect in what is a very undervalued stock and therefore, buying it back is probably the clearest signal that we can provide in the market and that we'll continue to do.

很明顯，你們才是專家，你們會做自己的模型。如 Kaan 所說，市場上有可比公司。但從我們的角度來看，產生現金並用它來反映在一檔被嚴重低估的股票上——因此回購——大概是我們能向市場提供的最清楚訊號，而且我們會持續這麼做。

Thanks. Very much look forward to your Capital Markets Day should be interesting.

謝謝。非常期待你們的資本市場日，應該會很有意思。

Max Findlay, Rothschild & Co.

Max Findlay，Rothschild & Co.。

My questions are more focused on performance within your different markets. So Bangladesh feels like it's split between a continuingly tough telco market, but you're managing to offset this with some impressive digital performance and cost performance as well. So first, on the telco performance, Telenor was very cautious about recovering in the market, but both from incoming phones and your operational KPIs look to be heading in the right direction. Your EBITDA margin stabilized quarter-on-quarter, and I think expanded year-on-year if you exclude a one-off from last year. So it'd be interesting to get your thoughts on how recovery proceeds from there.

我的問題更聚焦在你們不同市場內的表現。孟加拉看起來像是分裂的局面：電信市場仍持續艱難，但你們透過一些令人印象深刻的數位表現以及成本表現，成功抵消了這些壓力。所以首先談電信表現，Telenor 對市場復甦非常謹慎，但無論從入網手機數據或你們的營運 KPI 來看，似乎都朝正確方向發展。你們的 EBITDA 利潤率季對季持穩，而且如果排除去年一次性因素，我認為年對年是擴張的。因此很想聽聽你們對接下來復甦如何推進的看法。

Secondly, relating to Bangladesh, digital grew there about $12 million in absolute terms. Can you provide some color on what contribution came from holding the rights to the World Cup? And what we should expect from this in Q3 and kind of broader expectations about the fintech business, which you hope to get live in the second half of the year?

第二點也與孟加拉相關，當地數位業務以絕對值計成長約 1,200 萬美元。你能否補充一些背景，這其中有多少貢獻來自持有世界盃轉播權？以及我們在第三季應該如何預期這部分表現，並且更廣泛地談談你們希望在下半年上線的金融科技業務之整體展望？

Then a final question on Kazakhstan. It was obviously a very difficult quarter there with performance deteriorating sequentially from Q1. The strategy change there, as I understand, was to target higher-value customers and to do this by bundling services. But local currency ARPU fell 1.5% year-on-year and margins have dropped by 7% year-over-year in Q1 and maybe 9% this quarter. So I guess the question is, is the shift in customer strategy working? And what can we expect in terms of margin recovery in the near term?

最後一個問題關於哈薩克。那裡顯然是一個非常艱難的季度，表現較第一季呈現連續惡化。據我理解，那裡的策略改變是鎖定更高價值的客戶，並透過服務綑綁來達成。但以當地貨幣計的 ARPU 年減 1.5%，而利潤率在第一季年減 7%，本季可能年減 9%。所以我想問的是，客戶策略的轉向是否奏效？以及短期內我們可以期待利潤率如何回升？

Thank you, Max. Let me start with Bangladesh. Clearly, I'm happy to see the stabilization of the market, and we have been consistently growing in the last three quarters year-on-year. And this quarter is an interesting one because I think it shows the potential of the country. There has been significant energy outages in Bangladesh in April and May to the level that the entire country has reduced its data consumption by 15%.

謝謝你，Max。我先從孟加拉談起。很明顯，我很高興看到市場趨於穩定，而且我們在過去三個季度都維持年對年成長。而本季很有意思，因為我認為它展現了這個國家的潛力。孟加拉在四月與五月出現大規模能源停電，嚴重到全國的數據使用量下降了 15%。

Now in an emerging market, you would expect data consumption to go up 40% year-on-year. This happened because of energy outages and practically because of the Hormuz Strait crisis, oil being not available in certain places. So despite this, we managed to grow our business. But what really excites me in Bangladesh, we broke all records. And I was talking with Google executives recently.

在新興市場，你通常會預期數據使用量年增 40%。這次之所以發生，是因為能源停電，以及實際上因荷姆茲海峽危機導致某些地區無法取得石油。即便如此，我們仍然成功讓業務成長。但在孟加拉真正讓我振奮的是，我們打破了所有紀錄。我最近也和 Google 的高層交流。

They said, we have never seen such a thing like this in World Cup in terms of broadcasting the games to Bangladesh population in and outside of Bangladesh. I was actually yesterday at a restaurant, and I met a Bangladesh guy. And the moment I said, do you know Bangladesh and Toffee, he said, yes, I watched all the games from Toffee at $5 rather than $20.

他們說，就世界盃而言，他們從未見過像這樣把賽事轉播給孟加拉境內外人口的情況。我昨天其實在一家餐廳，遇到一位孟加拉人。我一說你知道孟加拉和 Toffee 嗎，他說知道，我用 Toffee 花 5 美元看了所有比賽，而不是 20 美元。

So it is good to see that we are even getting in New York some attention. But in terms of the monetization potential of Digital Services, the growth you see there is thanks to the World Cup. And I congratulate the United States. I think they run the best World Cup that I have seen, but it also had a major impact in Bangladesh, and we are very happy to see that. And I'm more positive than other players in the market in terms of the progress and development of Bangladesh.

所以很高興看到我們甚至在紐約也獲得一些關注。但就數位服務的變現潛力而言，你看到的成長要歸功於世界盃。我也恭喜美國。我認為他們辦了我看過最好的世界盃，但這也對孟加拉產生了重大影響，我們很高興看到這點。而且就孟加拉的進展與發展而言，我比市場上其他參與者更為樂觀。

I think when the energy stabilization also normalizes, we will see higher growth rates from the country. Now coming to Kazakhstan. There are a couple of things that we need to keep in mind. First of all, VAT rates have increased, right, 6%. And this is a significant change, and we were not able to adjust this to the pricing. Normally, we are better in doing this. But in this particular case, 6% disappeared from top line.

我認為當能源供應穩定也恢復正常時，我們將看到該國更高的成長率。接著談哈薩克。有幾點需要記住。首先，增值稅（VAT）稅率提高了，對吧，提高了 6%。這是一個重大變化，而我們無法把它調整到定價上。通常我們在這方面做得更好。但在這個特定情況下，營收端就少了 6%。

And you can imagine the impact of that to the EBITDA. The second important issue is we have a model of bundling smartphones into family packages. It's a great idea, but it also has a temporary fluctuation in the marginality because of the way it is accounted for.

你可以想像這對 EBITDA 的影響。第二個重要議題是，我們有一個把智慧型手機綑綁進家庭方案的模式。這是個很棒的想法，但也會因會計處理方式而在毛利率上造成暫時性的波動。

So those two important dynamics had an impact. I'm not concerned. Kazakhstan is the most advanced digitally aligned market that we have in our portfolio. And we are actually doing quite well despite the fact that we are providing 4G advanced services in Kazakhstan. We have a unique advantage in terms of customer satisfaction and Net Promoter Scores. So overall, I see the Kazakhstan as a temporary issue in terms of margin erosion. But I'm sure that Kazakh market will prove itself to be an extremely dynamic and successful market as the time passes this year.

因此，這兩個重要動態造成了影響。我並不擔心。哈薩克是我們投資組合中數位化對齊程度最高、最先進的市場。而且即便我們在哈薩克提供 4G 進階服務，我們的表現其實相當不錯。在客戶滿意度與淨推薦值（NPS）方面，我們具備獨特優勢。所以整體而言，我把哈薩克視為利潤率侵蝕的暫時性問題。但我確信，隨著今年時間推進，哈薩克市場將證明自己是一個極具活力且成功的市場。

And just to add on top the Bangladesh, on top of the World Cup, there was a pricing adjustment we did year-over-year for our services that also impacted the revenue growth.

另外補充一下孟加拉，除了世界盃之外，我們也對服務做了年對年的價格調整，這也影響了營收成長。

Yes. So I think just to complete that, digital is 13%. The World Cup helped at 13%, but it's not as if we want to call that a one-off. I mean the plans in motion, there's a lot of other things. So we're hoping for that momentum to kind of continue to sustain itself.

是的。所以我想補充完整一點，數位是 13%。世界盃帶來了 13% 的助益，但我們並不想把它稱為一次性因素。我的意思是，計畫正在推進中，還有很多其他事情。所以我們希望這股動能能夠延續並自我維持。

There are countries which loves crickets like Pakistan. There are countries which likes football like Bangladesh. And every Bangladesh is either a Brazilian fan or an Argentina fan. You can go to during the World Cup time, the country is full of Argentina and Brazil flex. So it was good that Argentina made to the last final game for us.

有些國家熱愛板球，例如巴基斯坦。有些國家喜歡足球，例如孟加拉。而每個孟加拉人不是巴西球迷就是阿根廷球迷。你在世界盃期間去看，整個國家到處都是阿根廷和巴西的旗幟飄揚。所以對我們而言，阿根廷打進最後的決賽很不錯。

Shame there's no more tariff anomaly supporters in Bangladesh, but we live and home. Just coming back on the EBITDA margin point on Kazakhstan. I mean, is this margin like depressed at the moment because you're bundling it in with low-margin equipment revenues. So you don't expect further deterioration, but the kind of margins stay around the kind of 40%, 45% kind of range where they've been Q1, Q2. Is that the right way to interpret that?

可惜孟加拉已經沒有更多資費異常的支持者了，但我們就這樣生活、回家吧。回到哈薩克的 EBITDA 利潤率問題。我的意思是，這個利潤率目前偏低，是不是因為你把它和低毛利的設備營收綑綁在一起？所以你不預期會進一步惡化，但利潤率大概就維持在第一季、第二季那種約 40%、45% 的區間。這樣解讀對嗎？

Max, first of all, let me correct one thing. We do not subsidize equipment. So it's not a matter of margin dilution because of subsidies of equipment. It is a matter of revenue recognition, which recognizes some of that margin in the previous quarters rather than this quarter. It's a cyclical movement of the volumes of business having the impact because the way the service and equipment integration into packages results in different type of an accounting procedure.

Max，首先我更正一點。我們不補貼設備。所以不是因為設備補貼導致利潤率被稀釋。而是營收認列的問題：其中一部分利潤是在前幾個季度認列，而不是在本季。這是一種週期性的量變所造成的影響，因為服務與設備整合進方案後，會導致不同的會計處理方式。

In simple terms, we recognize equipment revenue upfront and the higher-margin service revenue gets recognized over the term. Therefore, as the business grows, we recognize more lower margin revenue upfront. And that's the success, that's actually success of business growing that we recognize more lower margin revenue upfront and then the higher-margin service revenue will come in turn.

簡單來說，我們會先行認列設備收入，而高毛利的服務收入則在合約期間內分期認列。因此，隨著業務成長，我們會先行認列更多低毛利收入。而這其實就是成功——業務成長的成功，使我們先行認列更多低毛利收入，接著高毛利的服務收入會在後續逐步進來。

And this, combined with the 6% VAT impact, you can understand where we are.

再加上 6% 的增值稅影響，你就能理解我們目前的狀況。

Ahmed Mostafa, Inam.

Ahmed Mostafa，Inam。

Two questions from my side. First, digital EBITDA margin reached 36% this quarter. So what are the main levers and medium-term milestones for further margin expansion? And second, which markets still have the most headroom to increase multiplay penetration.

我這邊有兩個問題。第一，數位 EBITDA 利潤率本季達到 36%。那麼進一步擴大利潤率的主要槓桿與中期里程碑是什麼？第二，哪些市場在提升多重服務（multiplay）滲透率方面仍有最大的成長空間？

Now let me answer it this way. There are markets already where a number of digital service customers have exceeded a number of our telecom customers. And when I look to advanced markets, especially the Pakistan being the highest, I think we are getting close to 38% of our revenues coming from financial and Digital Services.

我用這樣的方式回答。有些市場的數位服務客戶數已經超過我們的電信客戶數。而當我看較成熟的市場，尤其是巴基斯坦是最高的，我認為我們的營收中，來自金融與數位服務的占比已接近 38%。

And this is just a continuum because as we bring the right services to each market on financial services side, entertainment side, healthcare, education and AI services, I think we are going to see a constant increase. Our multiplay customer base was raised this quarter about 4.5%, which is actually the healthy trend that we would like to continue. The biggest upside that I see in this space is still Bangladesh, and this is related to smartphone penetration in the country.

而這只是延續的趨勢，因為當我們在各市場導入合適的服務——在金融服務、娛樂、醫療保健、教育以及 AI 服務等面向——我認為我們會看到持續的提升。本季我們的 multiplay 客戶基礎提升約 4.5%，這其實是我們希望延續的健康趨勢。我在這個領域看到的最大上行空間仍然是孟加拉，而這與該國的智慧型手機滲透率有關。

There is an interesting metric that I want to share with you. If you look to GSMA reports for the five countries that we operate in, there's 530 million people less. Number of people connected to Internet is 288 million. Number of digital service customers we have is 228 million people.

我想和各位分享一個很有意思的指標。如果你看我們所營運的五個國家的 GSMA 報告，人口合計約 5.3 億。連上網際網路的人數是 2.88 億。我們的數位服務客戶人數是 2.28 億。

So basically, 6 out of 10 people whoever gets connected to Internet is our customers already one way or the other. Now we need to push for equal inclusion for women on smartphone ownership. That's our number 1 priority. And that will mean that we have to work hand-in-hand with the governments and equipment producers to increase the smartphone penetration and especially on female population.

所以基本上，每 10 個連上網際網路的人當中，就有 6 個已經以某種方式成為我們的客戶。現在我們需要推動女性在智慧型手機持有上的平等納入。這是我們的第一優先事項。這也意味著我們必須與各國政府及設備製造商攜手合作，提高智慧型手機滲透率，尤其是在女性族群之中。

Jake Ng, New Street Research.

Jake Ng，新街研究（New Street Research）。

Jake, you are on mute.

Jake，你的麥克風靜音了。

This is Jake. So I understand that currently has a global framework agreement with Starlink and Starlink is present in Ukraine. You guys are working with them in Kazakhstan and Bangladesh already. Is there a possibility of us seeing this in Pakistan and Uzbekistan as well? Just this.

我是 Jake。我了解目前你們與 Starlink 有一份全球框架協議，而 Starlink 也已在烏克蘭運作。你們已經在哈薩克與孟加拉和他們合作。那麼，我們是否也有可能在巴基斯坦與烏茲別克看到這項合作？就這個問題。

Thanks, Jake. I assume Chris is on vacation already. So please pass my regards to him and tell him both you and him invited to the Capital Markets Day. The answer is yes, as long as the government allows us to. So there are quite a number of regulations to get to this point, and it takes a while to show the government that this is an essential need for the populations.

謝謝你，Jake。我想 Chris 已經在度假了。所以請代我向他致意，並告訴他你和他都受邀參加資本市場日（Capital Markets Day）。答案是可以，只要政府允許我們這麼做。要走到這一步需要符合相當多的法規要求，而且也需要一些時間向政府證明，這對民眾而言是必要的需求。

I think there should be no country in the world which would not be integrating their terrestrial networks with satellite platforms. We should not consider this as a threat. This is a responsibility for the populations. And actually, I wish the regulatory environment would be forcing every single regulator operator to do this. We are doing ourselves, and we are working with all the countries' regulators to also demonstrate the value of doing this.

我認為世界上不應該有任何國家不把其地面網路與衛星平台整合。我們不應把這視為威脅。這是對民眾的責任。事實上，我希望監管環境能要求每一個監管機構與營運商都必須這麼做。我們自己正在做，也正與各國監管機構合作，展示這麼做的價值。

And on top, our contractual terms do give us benefits as we add on more countries with Starlink.

此外，隨著我們與 Starlink 增加更多合作國家，我們的合約條款也確實會帶來一些好處。

Is it possible to elaborate on any of these benefits you mentioned?

可以請你進一步說明你提到的這些好處嗎？

I suggest we keep the commercial details to ourselves. Thanks a lot for the question, but I don't think we can share that.

我建議商業細節我們就先保留。非常感謝你的提問，但我想我們無法分享這部分。

Ali Zaidi, Inam.

Ali Zaidi，Inam。

I just have one question. So you have called out that there is a high energy cost in Pakistan and there are also energy-related disruptions in Bangladesh as well. So in Ukraine, you responded to that kind of problem like by buying the generation directly. So is it something you would consider in Pakistan and Bangladesh as well?

我只有一個問題。你提到巴基斯坦的能源成本很高，而孟加拉也有與能源相關的中斷。在烏克蘭，你們是透過直接購買發電來回應這類問題。那麼你們是否也會考慮在巴基斯坦與孟加拉採取類似作法？

Good question. Of course, in Ukraine, we have a stronger appetite to deploy capital in terms of this type of investments. In other markets, we are looking for alternative methods, actually deploying solar farms only works if there is a strong grid distributing the energy in the country. And both in Bangladesh and Pakistan, the grid infrastructure is not at the level that we can do the same playbook. Having said that, more and more, there are site-based technologies that could allow us to do solar and wind generation for the specific sites.

好問題。當然，在烏克蘭，就這類投資而言，我們更願意投入資本。在其他市場，我們正在尋找替代方法；實際上，只有在該國有強健的電網能分配能源時，部署太陽能電場才行得通。而在孟加拉與巴基斯坦，電網基礎設施尚未達到我們能照搬同一套作法的水準。話雖如此，越來越多以站點為基礎的技術，可能讓我們能針對特定站點進行太陽能與風力發電。

Actually, last year, we have deployed one of those sites in Kazakhstan at a very remote location, which still works in a perfect manner. So we will be looking for those. There are already projects in place, especially in Pakistan to solarize some of our sites, giving very encouraging results.

其實去年我們已在哈薩克一個非常偏遠的地點部署了其中一個站點，至今仍運作得非常理想。所以我們會持續尋找這類方案。目前也已有專案在進行中，特別是在巴基斯坦，正把我們部分站點太陽能化，成果相當令人鼓舞。

Theodore O'Neill, Litchfield Hills.

Theodore O'Neill，Litchfield Hills。

I'm looking over the results for the quarter, and I'm struck by the fact that country by country, you've got with the exception of Bangladesh for reasons you already mentioned, you've got double-digit growth in revenue and dollars, but the mobile customer numbers are essentially unchanged. At some point, do you need to see those mobile customer numbers go up? Or is it partly what you just talked about, too, with the female population that you're trying to address?

我在看本季的業績，令我印象深刻的是：按國家來看，除了你先前提到原因的孟加拉之外，各國營收與美元計價都呈現兩位數成長，但行動客戶數基本上沒有變化。在某個時間點，你們是否需要看到行動客戶數上升？或者部分原因也如你剛才談到的，是你們正試圖解決女性族群的問題？

Yes. So first of all, we are focused on the Flywheel that I described. How much of that customers are multiplay customers versus just an end-to-end SIM card or practically customers who are only using our voice services. And we are very satisfied with that evolution overall. In our markets, there is still a challenge, especially when it comes to Pakistan and Bangladesh, which are big populations in terms of smartphone availability.

是的。首先，我們聚焦在我所描述的飛輪（Flywheel）。也就是在這些客戶中，有多少是多重服務（multiplay）客戶，而不是僅僅端到端的一張 SIM 卡，或實際上只使用我們語音服務的客戶。整體而言，我們對這樣的演進非常滿意。在我們的市場中仍有挑戰，特別是巴基斯坦與孟加拉，這兩個人口大國在智慧型手機可得性方面仍存在問題。

So, our ability to make smartphones affordable and accessible and also penetrating into markets which there is very low smartphone ownership, especially the woman, I think, is a critical success factor. Of course, we have programs to address those. but you will only see that growth picking up in the way that we want with regard to multiplay customer base if we can grow the penetration of smartphones in the markets.

因此，我們讓智慧型手機變得可負擔、可取得的能力，以及進一步滲透到智慧型手機持有率很低的市場（尤其是女性），我認為是關鍵的成功因素。當然，我們有相關計畫來處理這些問題。

See you on November 16.

11 月 16 日見。

We have no further questions at this time. I'll now hand back to Anand Ramachandran for closing remarks.

目前沒有進一步的提問。我現在把時間交回給 Anand Ramachandran 做結語。

Thank you so much. I'd probably take the last call for any follow-up questions in the room. I don't see any. So with that, guys, thank you very much for your time and attention. As Kaan said, we will have the Capital Markets Day in November and obviously, the third quarter results before that.

非常感謝。我想在現場最後再開放一次，看看是否有任何追問。我沒有看到。那麼各位，謝謝大家的時間與關注。如 Kaan 所說，我們會在 11 月舉辦資本市場日，當然在那之前也會先公布第三季業績。

Thank you very much for your attention and support to VEON. We'll keep talking but see you as a part of this group again next quarter. Thank you so much.

非常感謝各位對 VEON 的關注與支持。我們會持續溝通，也期待下季再以這個團體的一員與各位見面。非常感謝。

Thank you. Thanks.

謝謝。謝謝。