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Operator
Operator
Good afternoon, and welcome to the Veeco Instruments Q3 2023 Earnings Call. Today's conference is being recorded. Now at this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Anthony Pappone, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.
下午好,歡迎參加 Veeco Instruments 2023 年第三季財報電話會議。今天的會議正在錄製中。現在這個時候,我想把會議交給投資人關係主管安東尼‧帕彭(Anthony Pappone)。請繼續。
Anthony Pappone - Head of IR
Anthony Pappone - Head of IR
Thank you, and good afternoon, everyone. Joining me on the call today are Bill Miller, Veeco's Chief Executive Officer; and John Kiernan, our Chief Financial Officer. Today's earnings release is available on the Veeco website. Please note that we have prepared a slide presentation to accompany today's webcast. We encourage you to follow along with the slides on veeco.com. This call is being recorded by Veeco Instruments and is copyrighted material. It cannot be recorded or rebroadcast without Veeco's express permission.
謝謝大家,大家下午好。今天與我一起參加電話會議的還有 Veeco 執行長 Bill Miller;以及我們的財務長約翰·基爾南 (John Kiernan)。今天的收益發布可在 Veeco 網站上取得。請注意,我們準備了幻燈片簡報來配合今天的網路廣播。我們鼓勵您按照 veeco.com 上的幻燈片進行操作。此通話由 Veeco Instruments 錄製,是受版權保護的資料。未經 Veeco 明確許可,不得錄製或轉播。
Your participation implies consent to our recording. To the extent that this call discusses expectations about market conditions, market acceptance and future sales of the company's products, future disclosures, future earnings expectations or otherwise make statements about the future, such statements are forward-looking and are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from the statements made.
您的參與意味著同意我們的錄音。如果本次電話會議討論了對市場狀況、市場接受度和公司產品未來銷售的預期、未來披露、未來盈利預期或以其他方式做出有關未來的陳述,則此類陳述屬於前瞻性陳述,並存在多種風險可能導致實際結果與聲明有重大差異的不確定性。
These factors are discussed in the business description, management's discussion and analysis and Risk Factor sections of the company's report on Form 10-K and annual report to shareholders and in our subsequent quarterly reports on Form 10-Q, current reports on Form 8-K and press releases.
這些因素在公司 10-K 表格報告和股東年度報告的業務描述、管理層討論和分析以及風險因素部分以及我們隨後的 10-Q 表格季度報告和 8-K 表格當前報告中進行了討論和新聞稿。
Veeco does not undertake any obligation to update any forward-looking statements, including those made on this call, to reflect future events or circumstances after the date of such statements. During this call, management will discuss non-GAAP financial measures. Information regarding such non-GAAP financial measures, including reconciliation to GAAP measures of performance is available on our website.
Veeco 不承擔更新任何前瞻性聲明(包括本次電話會議中所做的聲明)的義務,以反映此類聲明發布後的未來事件或情況。在這次電話會議中,管理階層將討論非公認會計準則財務指標。有關此類非 GAAP 財務衡量標準的信息,包括與 GAAP 績效衡量標準的對賬,請訪問我們的網站。
With that, I will turn the call over to our CEO, Bill Miller.
接下來,我會將電話轉給我們的執行長比爾米勒 (Bill Miller)。
William John Miller - CEO & Director
William John Miller - CEO & Director
Thank you, Anthony. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining our call today. Today, I'll take you through our Third Quarter highlights, provide an update on our markets and discuss a few significant growth opportunities in more detail. John will provide a financial update and guidance, and then we'll be happy to take questions.
謝謝你,安東尼。大家下午好,感謝您今天加入我們的電話會議。今天,我將帶您了解我們第三季的亮點,提供我們市場的最新情況,並更詳細地討論一些重要的成長機會。約翰將提供財務更新和指導,然後我們將很樂意回答問題。
Veeco reported another quarter of strong top and bottom line results. Revenue totaled $177 million and non-GAAP EPS of $0.53, each above the high end of our guidance range.
Veeco 公佈了另一個季度強勁的營收和淨利潤業績。收入總額為 1.77 億美元,非 GAAP 每股收益為 0.53 美元,均高於我們指引範圍的上限。
Our solid financial results were driven by continued strength in our semiconductor business and sequential growth in our data storage business. In addition to our strong results, we're also excited to share several key business wins. First, we shipped multiple laser annealing systems to our leading Tier 1 logic and memory customers.
我們穩健的財務表現得益於半導體業務的持續強勁和資料儲存業務的連續成長。除了我們的強勁業績之外,我們還很高興分享幾個關鍵的業務勝利。首先,我們向領先的一級邏輯和記憶體客戶提供了多個雷射退火系統。
Second, we received our first laser annealing system order for a new application to serve the automotive market. Third, we received our first low defect density ion beam deposition system order for a new EUV pellicle mask blank application. And we continue to make progress with our nanosecond annealing and ion beam deposition products for wafer-level semiconductor manufacturing.
其次,我們收到了第一個雷射退火系統訂單,用於服務汽車市場的新應用。第三,我們收到了第一個低缺陷密度離子束沉積系統訂單,用於新的 EUV 薄膜掩模空白應用。我們繼續在用於晶圓級半導體製造的奈秒退火和離子束沉積產品方面取得進展。
As you may have seen in our press release today, Veeco announced the shipment of our first nanosecond annealing evaluation system to a Tier 1 logic customer representing a substantial milestone for our company. Further advancement of our laser annealing road map is an exciting piece of our strategy. I'll discuss this significant opportunity. (technical difficulty).
正如您可能在我們今天的新聞稿中看到的,Veeco 宣布向一級邏輯客戶發貨我們的第一個納秒退火評估系統,這對我們公司來說是一個重要的里程碑。我們的雷射退火路線圖的進一步推進是我們策略中令人興奮的一部分。我將討論這個重要的機會。 (技術難度)。
Veeco's laser annealing technology is growing in criticality at our customers' most advanced nodes as traditional technology struggle to meet performance requirements. For example, new [gate] all-around architectures and shrinking devices require precise higher temperature annealing technology to increase performance and minimize damage.
由於傳統技術難以滿足性能要求,Veeco 的雷射退火技術在客戶最先進的節點上變得越來越重要。例如,新的[閘極]全能架構和縮小裝置需要精確的高溫退火技術,以提高性能並最大限度地減少損壞。
In comparison to traditional lamp approaches, our laser annealing system has several advantages. These include a lower thermal budget, higher dopant activation and pattern insensitivity to annealing. Veeco's laser annealing system continues to be adopted by new and existing customers for new applications with recent wins validating our position.
與傳統的燈方法相比,我們的雷射退火系統具有多個優勢。這些包括較低的熱預算、較高的摻雜劑活化和圖案對退火不敏感。 Veeco 的雷射退火系統繼續被新舊客戶用於新應用,最近的勝利驗證了我們的地位。
Shipments remained elevated during the quarter due to broad-based demand from logic and memory customers. Looking ahead, we're focused on gaining further adoption in new markets and applications. Veeco's low-defect density ion beam deposition system is the technology of choice to deposit defect-free films for EUV mask blank production and we're well positioned to serve growing demand from adoption of EUV lithography.
由於邏輯和記憶體客戶的廣泛需求,本季出貨量保持在較高水準。展望未來,我們致力於在新市場和應用中獲得進一步採用。 Veeco 的低缺陷密度離子束沉積系統是為 EUV 掩模坯料生產沉積無缺陷薄膜的首選技術,我們有能力滿足 EUV 光刻技術不斷增長的需求。
While we continue to see this market at about 3 to 5 systems per year, we see potential to expand our business beyond the current application space in areas such as pellicle deposition. In advanced packaging, our wet processing solutions are used for photoresist strip, solvent cleans and flux removal for high-bandwidth memory and temporary bond material strip. During the quarter, leading foundry and memory customers placed orders for several flux clean systems that support advanced packaging for AI. Based on our strong year-to-date results and outlook, we expect our semiconductor business to outperform WFE and be up about 10% for the year.
雖然我們繼續看到這個市場每年大約有 3 到 5 個系統,但我們看到了將我們的業務擴展到薄膜沉積等領域當前應用空間之外的潛力。在先進封裝中,我們的濕式處理解決方案用於高頻寬記憶體和臨時黏合材料剝離的光阻剝離、溶劑清洗和助焊劑去除。本季度,領先的代工和記憶體客戶訂購了多種支援人工智慧先進封裝的助焊劑清潔系統。根據我們今年迄今強勁的業績和前景,我們預計我們的半導體業務今年將超越 WFE,成長約 10%。
Moving to the compound semiconductor market. The market for epitaxy equipment provides Veeco with a substantial growth opportunity. Our silicon carbide CVD technology continues to advance, and we're making progress towards demonstrating tool performance to our customers. Interest in our single wafer solution is strong with several evaluation shipments to Tier 1 customers planned for next year.
轉向化合物半導體市場。外延設備市場為 Veeco 提供了巨大的成長機會。我們的碳化矽 CVD 技術不斷進步,並且在向客戶展示工具性能方面取得了進展。人們對我們的單晶圓解決方案很感興趣,並計劃明年向一級客戶交付幾批評估產品。
Looking ahead, our unique system design years of experience with epitaxy technology and extensive go-to-market infrastructure position us well to capture share. Likewise, we're also investing in GaN Power and micro LED as the long-term fundamentals in these markets remain positive.
展望未來,我們獨特的系統設計、多年的外延技術經驗和廣泛的市場基礎設施使我們能夠很好地佔領市場份額。同樣,我們也正在投資 GaN Power 和 micro LED,因為這些市場的長期基本面依然樂觀。
Lastly, looking at the data storage market. Veeco has the most advanced ion beam equipment in the industry with customers using our products to manufacture thin-film magnetic heads for hard disk drives. Equally as important, our core ion beam technologies are providing significant value as we leverage them for advanced node applications in the semiconductor market.
最後,看看資料儲存市場。 Veeco 擁有業界最先進的離子束設備,客戶使用我們的產品製造硬碟的薄膜磁頭。同樣重要的是,我們的核心離子束技術在我們將其用於半導體市場的先進節點應用時提供了巨大的價值。
Looking ahead, we're well positioned to capitalize on the proliferation of data stored in the cloud. Based on year-to-date and scheduled shipments during the fourth quarter, we continue to expect year-over-year growth in 2023 as previously forecasted.
展望未來,我們已做好充分利用雲端儲存資料激增的準備。根據今年迄今和第四季的預定出貨量,我們繼續預計 2023 年將實現同比增長,正如先前預測的那樣。
Moving now to artificial intelligence and the role that Veeco plays in the AI chip manufacturing process. Growth of AI is having a profound impact on leading edge product road maps, requiring the most advanced technologies to manufacture higher-performance AI chips. As a result, demand for our technologies is growing with adoption of our products in 3 main areas. Beginning with GPU chips, Veeco's laser annealing systems for transistor formation and ion beam deposition systems for EUV mask blank manufacturing are established as production tool of record at our customers' most advanced nodes.
現在轉向人工智慧以及 Veeco 在 AI 晶片製造過程中發揮的作用。人工智慧的發展正在對前沿產品路線圖產生深遠影響,需要最先進的技術來製造更高效能的人工智慧晶片。因此,隨著我們的產品在 3 個主要領域的採用,對我們技術的需求不斷增長。從 GPU 晶片開始,Veeco 用於電晶體形成的雷射退火系統和用於 EUV 掩模坯料製造的離子束沉積系統已成為我們客戶最先進節點上的記錄生產工具。
In addition to our laser annealing technology, we believe there are opportunities for our nanosecond annealing and ion beam deposition systems in AI, GPU applications where traditional technologies are challenged. Second, our laser annealing systems are used in manufacturing of high-bandwidth memory or HBM DRAM. We have shipped multiple systems this year, plan to ship additional systems and are working to penetrate another Tier 1 memory customers advanced nodes.
除了我們的雷射退火技術之外,我們相信我們的奈秒退火和離子束沉積系統在傳統技術受到挑戰的人工智慧、GPU 應用中還有機會。其次,我們的雷射退火系統用於製造高頻寬記憶體或 HBM DRAM。我們今年已經發貨了多個系統,並計劃發貨更多系統,並正在努力滲透到另一個 Tier 1 記憶體客戶的高級節點。
Equally important, we see future opportunities for our nanosecond annealing and ion beam deposition solutions for AI memory applications. And third, Veeco wet processing systems for flux clean of micro bumps support advanced packaging for AI at both the submodule level for HBM and the system product level.
同樣重要的是,我們看到了用於人工智慧記憶體應用的奈秒退火和離子束沉積解決方案的未來機會。第三,用於微凸塊助焊劑清潔的 Veeco 濕式處理系統在 HBM 子模組層級和系統產品層級支援 AI 的先進封裝。
I'd now like to take a deeper dive into two of our largest semiconductor growth opportunities. Beginning with nanosecond annealing. Continued innovation is essential to maintaining product leadership. As mentioned earlier, we shipped our nanosecond annealing evaluation system to a Tier 1 logic customer which, if successful, can significantly expand our served available market. Compared with traditional annealing solutions, our nanosecond annealing system can achieve a lower thermal budget enabled by a dwell time that can be up to 1,000x shorter than today's most advanced anneals.
我現在想更深入地探討我們兩個最大的半導體成長機會。從納秒退火開始。持續創新對於維持產品領先地位至關重要。如前所述,我們將奈秒退火評估系統運送給一級邏輯客戶,如果成功,可以顯著擴大我們服務的可用市場。與傳統的退火解決方案相比,我們的奈秒退火系統可以實現更低的熱預算,其停留時間比當今最先進的退火短 1,000 倍。
Our nanosecond annealing system can rapidly heat the surface of the wafer and only affect tens to 100s of nanometers into the wafer. This may enable new applications such as backside power delivery and contacted anneal for advanced nodes. It also may enable new applications requiring material modification, such as void removal, recrystallization and grain growth. Pull from Tier 1 logic and memory customers is strong and we plan another evaluation shipment in the coming months.
我們的奈秒退火系統可以快速加熱晶圓表面,並且僅影響晶圓內數十至數百奈米。這可能會啟用新的應用,例如用於先進節點的背面功率傳輸和接觸退火。它還可能實現需要材料改性的新應用,例如空隙去除、再結晶和晶粒生長。來自一級邏輯和記憶體客戶的需求強勁,我們計劃在未來幾個月內再次發貨。
As we look ahead, we see potential for initial high-volume manufacturing orders in late 2024 or 2025. Turning now to ion beam deposition for advanced node semiconductor applications. Our core ion beam technology has been honed over decades and is the technology of choice in the semiconductor industry for EUV mask production.
展望未來,我們看到了 2024 年末或 2025 年初始大批量製造訂單的潛力。現在轉向先進節點半導體應用的離子束沉積。我們的核心離子束技術經過數十年的磨練,是半導體產業 EUV 掩模生產的首選技術。
This core technology can also solve our customers' high-value problems and advanced semiconductor wafer level manufacturing. Lower resistance metals are becoming increasingly critical to maintaining device speed and performance as device geometries continue to shrink. Based on Tier 1 customer data, our Ion Beam deposited tungsten and Ruthenium films are demonstrating substantially lower reactivity as compared to traditional PVD.
這項核心技術還可以解決我們客戶的高價值問題和先進的半導體晶圓級製造。隨著裝置幾何尺寸的不斷縮小,低電阻金屬對於維持裝置速度和性能變得越來越重要。根據一級客戶數據,與傳統 PVD 相比,我們的離子束沉積鎢和釕薄膜的反應性顯著降低。
For DRAM, this enables our customers to continue scaling down tungsten bitline thickness while maintaining electrical performance of the device. For logic, Ruthenium base metallization can enable new integration schemes at future nodes. Pull from Tier 1 customers remains strong, and we're on track to ship 2 evaluation systems in the coming months to DRAM customers. Although this opportunity is still in the early stages, we're quite excited to introduce Ion Beam Deposition to the front-end semiconductor market.
對於 DRAM,這使我們的客戶能夠繼續縮小鎢位線厚度,同時保持裝置的電氣性能。對於邏輯,釕基金屬化可以在未來節點實現新的整合方案。來自 1 級客戶的需求仍然強勁,我們預計在未來幾個月內向 DRAM 客戶提供 2 個評估系統。儘管這個機會仍處於早期階段,但我們很高興將離子束沉積引入前端半導體市場。
With that, I'll turn it over to John for a financial update.
這樣,我會將其轉交給約翰以獲取最新的財務資訊。
John P. Kiernan - Senior VP & CFO
John P. Kiernan - Senior VP & CFO
Thanks, Bill, and good afternoon, everyone. Today, I will be discussing non-GAAP financial data and would encourage you to refer to our reconciliation between GAAP and non-GAAP results, which you can find in our press release and at the end of the quarterly earnings presentation. Starting with Q3 revenue by market and geography. Revenue for the quarter was $177 million, increasing 10% from Q2. After a record in Q2, revenue from our semiconductor business came in at $98 million, comprising 56% of total revenue. In the compound semiconductor market, revenue came in at 14%, declining from the prior quarter. Revenue to our data storage customers increased to $34 million during the quarter representing 19% of revenue as compared to 9% in Q2.
謝謝比爾,大家下午好。今天,我將討論非 GAAP 財務數據,並鼓勵您參考我們的 GAAP 和非 GAAP 業績之間的對賬,您可以在我們的新聞稿和季度收益報告末尾找到該數據。從按市場和地理劃分的第三季收入開始。該季度營收為 1.77 億美元,較第二季成長 10%。繼第二季創紀錄之後,我們的半導體業務收入達到 9,800 萬美元,佔總收入的 56%。在化合物半導體市場,營收季減14%。本季我們資料儲存客戶的營收增加至 3,400 萬美元,佔營收的 19%,而第二季為 9%。
In scientific and other made up 11% of revenue. Now turning to quarterly revenue by region. Revenue from the United States totaled 33% of revenue, an increase from 22% in the prior quarter due to an increase in shipments to data storage customers. Revenue from our Asia Pacific region declined to 29% of total revenue as compared to 36% in the prior quarter, resulting from a decline in semiconductor sales.
科學和其他收入佔收入的11%。現在轉向按地區劃分的季度收入。由於資料儲存客戶的出貨量增加,來自美國的收入總計佔營收的 33%,較上一季的 22% 有所成長。由於半導體銷售額下降,我們亞太地區的營收佔總營收的比例從上一季的 36% 下降至 29%。
As forecasted, the percentage of total revenue from China decreased from 31% in the prior quarter to 23%. We expect an increase in China revenue in Q4 and expect full year revenue from China to be in the low 30% range. And lastly, EMEA was 15% of revenue, an increase from 11% in the prior quarter.
正如預測的那樣,來自中國的總收入百分比從上一季的 31% 下降至 23%。我們預計第四季度中國收入將有所增長,並預計全年來自中國的收入將在 30% 的低水平範圍內。最後,歐洲、中東和非洲地區佔營收的 15%,高於上一季的 11%。
Switching gears to our non-GAAP quarterly results. Gross margin came in at approximately 44%, a sequential increase from approximately 43%. Gross margin was positively impacted by higher volume and a more favorable product mix.
轉向我們的非公認會計原則季度業績。毛利率約為 44%,較上一季的約 43% 有所增長。毛利率受到銷量增加和更有利的產品組合的正面影響。
Operating expenses came in at $46 million, in line with guidance as we maintain our focus on cost management while also prioritizing investment for future growth opportunities. During the quarter, the projected annual effective tax rate was reduced from 14% to 11% due to increased benefits from R&D credits and other deductions. As a result, tax expense for the quarter was $2 million, yielding a 7% effective tax rate.
營運費用為 4,600 萬美元,符合指導方針,因為我們繼續專注於成本管理,同時也優先考慮對未來成長機會的投資。本季度,由於研發抵免和其他扣除額帶來的收益增加,預計年度有效稅率從 14% 降至 11%。因此,本季的稅費為 200 萬美元,有效稅率為 7%。
Lastly, net income came in at $31 million and EPS was $0.53 on a diluted share count of 59 million shares. Turning to the balance sheet and cash flow highlights. We ended the quarter with cash and short-term investments of $287 million, in line with the prior quarter. From a working capital perspective, our accounts receivable declined by $8 million to $122 million, with DSOs for the quarter decreasing to 62 days.
最後,淨利潤為 3,100 萬美元,稀釋後每股收益為 0.53 美元,稀釋後股數為 5,900 萬股。轉向資產負債表和現金流亮點。本季結束時,我們的現金和短期投資為 2.87 億美元,與上一季持平。從營運資金的角度來看,我們的應收帳款減少了 800 萬美元,至 1.22 億美元,本季的 DSO 期限減少至 62 天。
Inventory increased by $8 million from the prior quarter to $252 million, while days of inventory outstanding declined to 222 days. Accounts payable remained flat at $63 million, while days payable outstanding declined to 57 days. And lastly, long-term debt on the balance sheet was recorded at $275 million, representing the carrying value of our $282 million of convertible notes.
庫存較上一季增加 800 萬美元,達到 2.52 億美元,庫存週轉天數下降至 222 天。應付帳款維持不變,為 6,300 萬美元,應付帳款天數下降至 57 天。最後,資產負債表上的長期債務為 2.75 億美元,相當於我們 2.82 億美元可轉換票據的帳面價值。
Before turning to our Q4 non-GAAP guidance, I'd like to discuss the U.S. Department of Commerce's update to export regulations on October 17. While these new regulations are complex and still under our review, at this time, we do not anticipate they will have a material impact to our business. Now turning to our Q4 non-GAAP guidance. Q4 revenue is forecasted between $155 million and $175 million, with gross margin between 43% and 44%. We expect OpEx between $45 million and $47 million, net income between $20 million and $27 million and EPS between $0.35 and $0.45 on a diluted share count of 60 million shares.
在轉向我們的第四季度非公認會計準則指導之前,我想討論一下美國商務部10 月17 日對出口法規的更新。雖然這些新法規很複雜並且仍在我們的審查中,但目前我們預計它們不會將對我們的業務產生重大影響。現在轉向我們的第四季度非公認會計原則指導。預計第四季營收在 1.55 億美元至 1.75 億美元之間,毛利率在 43% 至 44% 之間。我們預計營運支出將在4,500 萬至4,700 萬美元之間,淨利潤將在2,000 萬至2,700 萬美元之間,每股攤薄後每股收益將在0.35 至0.45 美元之間,攤薄後的股數為6 千萬股。
Based on our year-to-date results and our fourth quarter guide, our full year 2023 revenue guidance is now $648 million to $668 million, tightened an increase from our prior range of $630 million to $670 million. Moreover, we are again raising our profitability outlook for the year to account for higher revenue, stronger gross margin and lower tax rate. We now expect non-GAAP EPS between $1.55 and $1.65 per diluted share. And for some additional color beyond Q4, based on market conditions and our visibility, Q1 2024 revenue is looking to be in a similar range to quarterly revenue in the second half of 2023.
根據我們今年迄今的業績和第四季度的指導,我們的 2023 年全年收入指導目前為 6.48 億美元至 6.68 億美元,比之前的 6.3 億美元至 6.7 億美元範圍有所收緊。此外,我們再次上調今年的獲利前景,以考慮更高的收入、更高的毛利率和更低的稅率。我們現在預計非 GAAP 稀釋後每股收益將在 1.55 美元至 1.65 美元之間。對於第四季度之後的一些額外顏色,根據市場狀況和我們的可見性,2024 年第一季的收入預計將與 2023 年下半年的季度收入處於類似的範圍。
With that, I'll now turn the call over to Bill for closing remarks.
現在,我將把電話轉給比爾做總結發言。
William John Miller - CEO & Director
William John Miller - CEO & Director
Thank you, John. Before concluding our prepared remarks, I'd like to highlight why Veeco is a compelling investment opportunity. We see significant growth opportunities for Veeco in the coming years, and we're investing to take full advantage of these opportunities. Our successful evaluation program has been foundational to our growth in the semiconductor market and is a top priority for 2024.
謝謝你,約翰。在結束我們準備好的演講之前,我想強調為什麼 Veeco 是一個引人注目的投資機會。我們看到 Veeco 在未來幾年將出現重大成長機會,並且我們正在投資以充分利用這些機會。我們成功的評估計畫是我們在半導體市場成長的基礎,也是 2024 年的首要任務。
Likewise, we expect our strategic R&D investments in the semiconductor and compound semiconductor markets to further strengthen our unique portfolio of differentiated technologies. As a reminder, our laser annealing technology is well established and our efforts to expand our footprint to new markets, applications and products are gaining traction. We're particularly excited for the opportunity to expand our served available market to new applications as we advance our laser annealing road map to nanosecond annealing.
同樣,我們預期我們在半導體和化合物半導體市場的策略性研發投資將進一步加強我們獨特的差異化技術組合。謹此提醒,我們的雷射退火技術已經很成熟,我們為將業務擴展到新市場、應用和產品所做的努力正在獲得關注。隨著我們將雷射退火路線圖推進到納秒退火,我們對有機會將我們所服務的可用市場擴展到新應用感到特別興奮。
In Ion Beam Deposition, our decades of experience in core technology give us confidence as we introduce Ion Beam for wafer-level advanced node semiconductor applications. We believe our Ion Beam Deposition technology has unique advantages versus traditional technologies like PVD, and our team is laser-focused on executing.
在離子束沉積方面,我們在核心技術方面數十年的經驗讓我們在為晶圓級先進節點半導體應用引入離子束時充滿信心。我們相信,與 PVD 等傳統技術相比,我們的離子束沉積技術具有獨特的優勢,並且我們的團隊專注於執行。
Lastly, we have a long-term opportunity to capitalize on growing demand in the compound semiconductor equipment market for power, electronics and photonics applications.
最後,我們有一個長期機會來利用化合物半導體設備市場對電力、電子和光子學應用不斷增長的需求。
And with that, we'll be happy to take your questions. Operator, please open the line.
因此,我們很樂意回答您的問題。接線員,請開通線路。
Operator
Operator
(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from the line of [Charles Shi] with Needham.
(操作員指令)我們的第一個問題來自[Charles Shi]與李約瑟的對話。
Unidentified Analyst
Unidentified Analyst
Maybe the first question about that NSA to you guys shipped out to the Tier 1 customer, kind of curious because you mentioned you were expecting maybe repeat orders as early as late '24, 2025, that seems to be a quite quick turnaround from the first -- from the shipment of the [develop] tool to like repeat [use]. Can you provide a little bit of context behind the adoption of this -- I mean, the adoption of these tools or maybe the evaluation tool here -- is that the dropping or replacing some existing application? And why you're expecting such a rapid turnaround from the shipment to the repeat buys?
也許關於NSA 的第一個問題是,你們發給了1 級客戶,有點好奇,因為你提到你預計最早可能會在2025 年24 日晚些時候重複訂單,這似乎是從第一次開始的一個相當快的周轉-從[開發]工具的出貨到喜歡重複[使用]。您能否提供一些關於採用此工具背後的背景資訊 - 我的意思是,採用這些工具或這裡的評估工具 - 是刪除或替換某些現有應用程式嗎?為什麼您期望從出貨到重複購買的轉變如此之快?
William John Miller - CEO & Director
William John Miller - CEO & Director
Yes, Charles, that's a thoughtful lengthy question there. I would say we are really excited about the shipment of this first evaluation system to a Tier 1 logic customer. I believe it represents a significant milestone for the company to introduce this technology after working on it for a number of years. I think it's important for our investors to understand that this is really a complementary technology to our existing laser annealing technology. And effectively, we can reduce the thermal budget significantly because we have about 1,000x less dwell time, which opens up a new class of applications that we can compete for. And then I think just a follow-up on one of your first subquestions here.
是的,查爾斯,這是一個深思熟慮的冗長問題。我想說,我們對向一級邏輯客戶交付第一個評估系統感到非常興奮。我相信,經過多年的研究,推出這項技術對公司來說是一個重要的里程碑。我認為我們的投資者了解這確實是我們現有雷射退火技術的補充技術非常重要。實際上,我們可以大幅降低熱預算,因為我們的停留時間減少了約 1,000 倍,這開啟了我們可以競爭的新一類應用。然後我想這只是你的第一個子問題的後續。
What we have done is we've shipped a system to a logic customer and these are 1-year evaluations, and they usually start after the tool is installed. And so let's say we've shipped it now and we could have it installed by the beginning of the year. That would start the clock on the evaluation cycle. If this goes well, and the integration runs smoothly, it would not be unheard for us to receive an order before the evaluation is signed off. But you are right, it very well. First orders could be in 2025 very easily as well. So hopefully, that provides the clarity you're looking for.
我們所做的是將系統交付給邏輯客戶,這些評估為期一年,通常在安裝工具後開始。假設我們現在已經發貨,我們可以在今年年初安裝它。這將啟動評估週期的時鐘。如果進展順利,並且整合順利進行,那麼我們在評估簽署之前收到訂單的情況也並非聞所未聞。但你是對的,這很好。第一批訂單也可能很容易在 2025 年完成。希望這能提供您所尋求的清晰度。
Unidentified Analyst
Unidentified Analyst
Yes. So maybe the second question, I want to ask you to provide a little bit more color on your new application win for EUV pellicles. Also kind of curious, what do you think about the timing for you to receive high-volume manufacturing orders? Is it something that's more tied to the high-end AUV adoption? Or -- do you -- from your discussion with your customers, do you kind of expect maybe it can be early? That's my second question. .
是的。所以也許第二個問題,我想請您為您的 EUV 薄膜新申請提供更多資訊。另外有點好奇,您對收到大批量製造訂單的時間有何看法?它是否與高端 AUV 的採用更相關?或者—根據您與客戶的討論,您是否認為可能會提前?這是我的第二個問題。 。
William John Miller - CEO & Director
William John Miller - CEO & Director
I would say, Charles, that pellicles are being introduced today. And just for our investor deal pellicles, as you know, are a thin transparent membrane mounted on the photomask to improve yield and reduce defect. So this is a new application for us. Our traditional IBD Ion Beam Deposition, low defect density tool. The industry needs one of these for every 3 to 5 ASML scanners shipped. So we're still sizing that market at 3 to 5 systems per year as a function of ASML scanners shipped. So we see this as an incremental opportunity. And our thought is this first tool will be used to make production pellicles over in due time. .
我想說,查爾斯,今天正在介紹薄膜。如您所知,為了我們的投資者交易,薄膜是安裝在光掩模上的透明薄膜,以提高產量並減少缺陷。所以這對我們來說是一個新的應用程式。我們傳統的 IBD 離子束沉積、低缺陷密度工具。業界每賣出 3 到 5 台 ASML 掃描器就需要其中一台。因此,我們仍然根據 ASML 掃描儀的出貨量將該市場規模確定為每年 3 到 5 個系統。所以我們認為這是一個增量機會。我們的想法是,這第一個工具將用於在適當的時候生產薄膜。 。
John P. Kiernan - Senior VP & CFO
John P. Kiernan - Senior VP & CFO
Just a slight clarification. So it's one of our EUV tools for every 10 to 15 ASML scanners that has shifted into the market, which then turns into a 3 to 5 system requirement for us. .
只是稍微澄清一下。因此,它是我們每 10 到 15 台 ASML 掃描器的 EUV 工具之一,已投入市場,然後變成我們的 3 到 5 台系統需求。 。
Unidentified Analyst
Unidentified Analyst
Yes. Sorry, John, I just really want to follow up on to that. Because it sounded like you're expecting pellicles to be introduced today with today's standard EUV tools, not just -- not the high end AUV tools that maybe just a few years, still a few years down the road. Is that a fair statement? .
是的。抱歉,約翰,我真的很想跟進此事。因為聽起來您期望今天的標準 EUV 工具能夠引入薄膜,而不僅僅是——不只是可能幾年後的高端 AUV 工具。這是一個公平的說法嗎? 。
William John Miller - CEO & Director
William John Miller - CEO & Director
I don't want to go into too much detail. My understanding is for a small number of EUV mask steps, pellicles are being introduced. I wouldn't want to really hypothesize what that percentage goes to with high NA. .
我不想談太多細節。我的理解是,對於少數 EUV 掩模步驟,正在引入薄膜。我不想真正假設這個百分比與高數值孔徑的關係。 。
Operator
Operator
Our next question comes from the line of Brian Lee with Goldman Sachs.
我們的下一個問題來自高盛的布萊恩李 (Brian Lee)。
Brian K. Lee - VP & Senior Clean Energy Analyst
Brian K. Lee - VP & Senior Clean Energy Analyst
I had two. I guess first one on the data storage segment. I know you guys have been talking about in recent quarters, you have enough backlog, [breadth] to kind of support revenues. You had a nice quarter here as well. Can you kind of give us a sense of where you think the data storage cycle is today? And as you think about -- you gave a little bit of a preliminary view here in Q1. Is the backlog extending all the way in the Q1 and then kind of [meditate] on that, what would you be thinking about in terms on that business segment for you as we move into next year? And then I had a follow-up.
我有兩個。我想第一個是關於資料儲存領域的。我知道你們最近幾季一直在談論,你們有足夠的積壓,[廣度]來支持收入。您在這裡也度過了愉快的季度。您能否讓我們了解您認為目前的資料儲存週期處於什麼位置?正如您所想,您在第一季給出了一些初步觀點。積壓的訂單是否在第一季一路延伸,然後[思考]這一點,當我們進入明年時,您會在該業務部門方面考慮什麼?然後我進行了跟進。
William John Miller - CEO & Director
William John Miller - CEO & Director
Brian, I would say the data storage industry conditions kind of remain challenging. There's still an excess inventory across the channel that the industry is trying to work off. We have heard commentary from two of our public company customers talking about maybe early stages of recovery. But clearly, we would have -- they would have to see that for some time before we can call it a sustained bottom.
Brian,我想說資料儲存產業的狀況仍然充滿挑戰。整個渠道仍然存在過剩庫存,該行業正在努力解決這個問題。我們聽到兩家上市公司客戶的評論,談論可能是復甦的早期階段。但顯然,他們必須在一段時間內看到這一點,然後我們才能稱之為持續底部。
I would say the one thing of interest when I look longer term, both of our customers do project exabyte growth over the next 3 to 5 years at about 25% CAGR and clearly, that would be a very good tailwind for Veeco. And so our specific question on our view towards '24, I would say we're not going to really be able to give quantitative view of '24, but suffice it to say that we do have backlog into '24 and wouldn't think it would be substantially different from '23. But we will give more color here in the near future.
從長遠來看,我想說的一件有趣的事情是,我們的兩家客戶都預計未來3 到5 年將以25% 的複合年增長率增長EB,顯然,這對Veeco 來說將是一個非常好的推動力。因此,關於我們對“24”的看法的具體問題,我想說我們不會真正能夠給出“24”的定量觀點,但足以說我們確實有積壓到“24”並且不會認為這與23 年有很大不同。但在不久的將來我們會在這裡賦予更多色彩。
Brian K. Lee - VP & Senior Clean Energy Analyst
Brian K. Lee - VP & Senior Clean Energy Analyst
Okay. Fair enough. That's helpful. And then you kind of headed it off as well with your prepared remarks. But as you think about the China exposure, I know there's been incremental concerns across different markets and industries with respect to the tighter macro and the signs of weakness in industrial and maybe some other categories. Can you kind of maybe level set us. I know you're giving us sort of the real-time updates around where your exposure is and how you're navigating it. But what are you hearing on the ground there? And are you anticipating as you look into '24, maybe a similar question like should we expect that China continues to fall as a percent of sales that you're making elsewhere in other geos and other end markets or do you see some stabilization here as you think about that preliminary view you gave out into Q1 .
好的。很公平。這很有幫助。然後你也用準備好的言論結束了這一切。但當你想到中國的風險時,我知道不同市場和產業對宏觀緊縮以及工業和其他一些類別的疲軟跡象越來越感到擔憂。你能為我們設定一下水平嗎?我知道您正在向我們提供有關您的曝光位置以及導航方式的即時更新資訊。但是你在地面上聽到了什麼?當您展望「24」時,您是否預期會遇到類似的問題,例如我們是否應該預期中國在其他地區和其他終端市場的其他地方的銷售額中所佔的百分比會繼續下降,或者您是否會看到這裡出現一些穩定性?你想想你對第一季給出的初步觀點。
John P. Kiernan - Senior VP & CFO
John P. Kiernan - Senior VP & CFO
Sure, Brian. I'll take that. This is John. So we had strong revenue in the first half of this year in China, and we had indicated that we would see China as a percentage of our overall revenue not as high as the first half of the year. But that being said, is that we were also forecasting about 30% of our revenue coming from China this year, we continue to see that. So we will see a bit of a pickup in the fourth quarter compared to third quarter for our business in China.
當然,布萊恩。我會接受的。這是約翰。因此,今年上半年我們在中國的收入強勁,我們曾表示,我們認為中國占我們總收入的比例不會像上半年那麼高。但話雖這麼說,我們也預測今年約 30% 的收入來自中國,我們繼續看到這一點。因此,與第三季相比,我們在中國的業務將在第四季有所回升。
I think as we look into 2024 at this point in time, it's a bit early, and we're not really ready to call -- do we see that business at what business levels that we expect to see there for full year 2024. But what I can comment on is that the current activity with our customers is still pretty strong. We do see ongoing demand for China customers. We are aware that customers are continuing to make investments in several areas for mature nodes. So at this point in time, we still see a pretty good environment for business with our China customers.
我認為,當我們現在展望 2024 年時,現在有點早,我們還沒有真正準備好打電話——我們是否看到該業務達到了我們預計 2024 年全年的業務水平。但是我可以評論的是,目前與我們客戶的活動仍然相當強勁。我們確實看到了中國客戶的持續需求。我們知道客戶正在繼續在成熟節點的多個領域進行投資。因此,目前我們仍然看到與中國客戶開展業務的良好環境。
Operator
Operator
Our next question comes from the line of Tom O'Malley with Barclays. .
我們的下一個問題來自湯姆·奧馬利與巴克萊銀行的對話。 。
Thomas James O'Malley - Research Analyst
Thomas James O'Malley - Research Analyst
I just wanted to follow up again on the China question there. So depending on what you guys are defining as low 30s for the entire year, you could have China revenue in the fourth quarter near record levels. Could you just describe where that's coming from? Is that in the semi business? I know you're guiding that up for 10% on the year or so. So are you seeing the mix in your semi business move back towards a majority of that revenue being in China? Or just any comments on that into the fourth quarter would be helpful. .
我只是想再次跟進中國問題。因此,根據你們對全年 30 多歲低點的定義,第四季中國收入可能接近歷史最高水準。你能描述一下它是從哪裡來的嗎?是在半商業領域嗎?我知道您預計今年將成長 10% 左右。那麼,您是否發現您的半成品業務的大部分收入又回到了中國?或者只是對第四季度的任何評論都會有幫助。 。
John P. Kiernan - Senior VP & CFO
John P. Kiernan - Senior VP & CFO
Yes. Yes, Tom I think that's a good question there. So our expectations for where we expected to be in the second half of the year, is holding out. Just on scheduled delivery dates, we had more scheduled deliveries in Q4 for these customers than Q3. So I don't really think it's really a change in the demand there, just so happened on how the systems were scheduled to be shipped. So yes, we expect in the high 30% range of revenue in the fourth quarter coming from customers in China. .
是的。是的,湯姆,我認為這是一個很好的問題。因此,我們對下半年的預期仍維持不變。就預定交貨日期而言,我們在第四季度為這些客戶安排的預定交貨量比第三季要多。所以我真的不認為這真的是需求的變化,只是系統的出貨方式改變了。所以,是的,我們預計第四季 30% 左右的收入來自中國客戶。 。
Thomas James O'Malley - Research Analyst
Thomas James O'Malley - Research Analyst
Got it. And just as a follow-up to that one, is that all coming from the trailing edge. Could you just describe maybe the disparity? Is it a little more leading edge than it was before? Has there been any change in ordering patterns there? Just trying to figure out where that demand is coming from? .
知道了。就像那一張的後續一樣,這一切都來自後緣。您能描述一下這種差異嗎?是不是比之前領先了一點?那裡的訂購模式有任何變化嗎?只是想弄清楚需求來自哪裡? 。
John P. Kiernan - Senior VP & CFO
John P. Kiernan - Senior VP & CFO
Yes, yes. So no change in the pattern there, Tom. What we've seen this year as revenue increased to about 30% of revenue coming from China, and over the past couple of years, it's about 20% of the company's revenue. It's principally been in our laser annealing product line is where the growth has been coming from, and that's where we see that continuing into the fourth quarter and into the beginning of next year. .
是的是的。所以,模式沒有改變,湯姆。今年我們看到來自中國的收入增加到約 30%,而在過去幾年,這一比例約為公司收入的 20%。成長主要來自我們的雷射退火產品線,我們認為這種成長將持續到第四季和明年初。 。
Thomas James O'Malley - Research Analyst
Thomas James O'Malley - Research Analyst
Got you. And just one more quick one, if I could sneak it in. So you guys said Q1, your expectations, I think the exact words you used were similar revenue rates to Q3 and Q4. There's obviously a big disparity between September and December? Are you kind of saying split the difference from March? And if you could just give any color on if you guys have any outlook that backs up that better than expected or at least a flattish guide into March. That would be helpful.
明白你了。如果我能偷偷地講一下,就再快一點。所以你們說第一季度,你們的期望,我認為你們使用的確切詞與第三季度和第四季度的收入率相似。 9月和12月差距明顯很大?你是說與三月的差別嗎?如果你們能給出任何顏色,如果你們有任何支持這一點的前景比預期更好,或者至少是一個平淡的三月指南。那會有幫助的。
John P. Kiernan - Senior VP & CFO
John P. Kiernan - Senior VP & CFO
Yes. I think looking at the average, Tom, we did get over the high end of our guidance revenue range in Q3. We shipped one or two more systems. So -- but for the whole second half of the year, we're at a number where we expected. We were expecting growth in revenue in the second half of the year. So yes, I think that's the right way to look at it, look at the average of Q3 and Q4 and our commentary would be mean like sort of in the middle there, that's what our expectation would be at this point, somewhere of a similar range in Q1 of 2024.
是的。湯姆,我認為從平均來看,我們確實超過了第三季指導收入範圍的上限。我們又出貨了一兩個系統。所以,但在整個下半年,我們的數字達到了我們的期望。我們預計下半年收入將成長。所以是的,我認為這是正確的看待它的方式,看看第三季度和第四季度的平均值,我們的評論會像中間那樣很刻薄,這就是我們此時的期望,類似的地方2024年第一季的範圍。
Operator
Operator
Our next question comes from the line of Gus Richard with Northland Capital.
我們的下一個問題來自 Gus Richard 與北國資本 (Northland Capital) 的對話。
Auguste Philip Richard - MD & Senior Research Analyst
Auguste Philip Richard - MD & Senior Research Analyst
I think in your commentary, you talked about semis being up 10% year-on-year. And if I just plug in the number for Q4, you kind of got to do $111 million, $112 million to hit 10%. Am I doing the math right there? .
我想你在評論中提到半決賽同比增長了 10%。如果我只輸入第四季的數字,你需要花費 1.11 億美元、1.12 億美元才能達到 10%。我在那裡做數學嗎? 。
John P. Kiernan - Senior VP & CFO
John P. Kiernan - Senior VP & CFO
Gus, this is John. We expect full year semiconductor revenue at the midpoint of our guide to be somewhere around $405 million for the year, that's up roughly 10%. So Q4 revenue number should be around $105 million in that range at the midpoint of our guide. So I think you're in the right [fiscal] there.
格斯,這是約翰。我們預計全年半導體收入(以我們指南的中點計算)約為 4.05 億美元,成長約 10%。因此,第四季的營收數字應該在 1.05 億美元左右,處於我們指南中點的範圍內。所以我認為你在[財政]方面是正確的。
Auguste Philip Richard - MD & Senior Research Analyst
Auguste Philip Richard - MD & Senior Research Analyst
Okay. Got it. And then just shifting back to the EUV mask, I'm sorry, EUV wet mask blank, mask blank, opportunity in pellicles. Just a couple of questions. First of all, is the pellicle customer, the fabs? Or is it the blank manufacturers? And then as you go to high NA EUV, you go to like a 6-inch/9-inch substrate. Is that going to require just a different set of tools when we go -- we have to do some modification of the existing tools to accommodate that larger substrate.
好的。知道了。然後回到 EUV 掩模,對不起,EUV 濕掩模空白,掩模空白,薄膜中的機會。只是幾個問題。首先,薄膜的客戶是晶圓廠嗎?還是空白廠商?然後,當您使用高 NA EUV 時,您會喜歡 6 英寸/9 英寸基板。當我們去時,是否只需要一套不同的工具——我們必須對現有工具進行一些修改以適應更大的基板。
William John Miller - CEO & Director
William John Miller - CEO & Director
I would answer the first part of your question, I would say this tool we sold for pellicles is not to our traditional mask blank customers. And then I would say moving to high NA with the larger format size, we are engaging with the industry to be prepared for that on the EUV mask blank deposition equipment. So we are working on that as well. .
我會回答你問題的第一部分,我會說我們出售的用於薄膜的工具不是給我們傳統的掩模空白客戶的。然後我想說的是,轉向更大格式尺寸的高數值孔徑,我們正在與業界合作,為 EUV 掩模空白沉積設備做好準備。所以我們也在努力解決這個問題。 。
Operator
Operator
Our next question comes from the line of Rick Schafer with Oppenheimer. .
我們的下一個問題來自里克·謝弗和奧本海默的對話。 。
Wei Mok - Associate
Wei Mok - Associate
This is Wei Mok on the line for Rick. Congrats on the results in shipping the first NSA tool. My first question is on customer order patterns. Did you see any customer export orders for 3Q? Was there anything that was pulled from 4Q into 3Q? .
我是莫偉 (Wei Mok),正在接聽里克 (Rick) 的電話。祝賀第一個 NSA 工具的交付所取得的成果。我的第一個問題是關於客戶訂單模式。您看到第三季有客戶出口訂單嗎?有什麼東西是從第四季拉到第三季的嗎? 。
William John Miller - CEO & Director
William John Miller - CEO & Director
My first inclination is no. We did overship a little bit, but I don't think it was anything related to me. Any related pull-in at the system level, maybe some upgrades of (inaudible) and the like. But I don't know, John, any more color there? .
我的第一個反應是不行。我們確實有點過度了,但我不認為這與我有什麼關係。系統層級的任何相關引入,可能是(聽不清楚)等的一些升級。但我不知道,約翰,還有更多的顏色嗎? 。
John P. Kiernan - Senior VP & CFO
John P. Kiernan - Senior VP & CFO
No. I think if you looked at the high end of our guide range that we gave that it had a couple of more systems in the high end of the guide range. And essentially, that's what we shipped out during the quarter was the biggest things that drove the revenue for the quarter, but not a new order activity, it was something that was already in our backlog and scheduled towards either the end of Q3 or the beginning of Q4. .
不。我認為,如果您查看我們提供的高端指南範圍,您會發現它在高端指南範圍中還有更多系統。從本質上講,我們在本季度發貨的產品是推動本季度收入增長的最大因素,但不是新訂單活動,它已經在我們的積壓訂單中,併計劃在第三季度末或年初進行第四季度的。 。
William John Miller - CEO & Director
William John Miller - CEO & Director
I guess I'll just add -- just excuse me, I'll add that. I think our on-time delivery for systems was, if not 100%, extremely close to 100%. So our factories we're getting closer to on time. .
我想我會補充一點——請原諒,我會補充一點。我認為我們的系統按時交付率即使不是 100%,也非常接近 100%。所以我們離工廠的準時時間越來越近了。 。
Wei Mok - Associate
Wei Mok - Associate
Great. Appreciate that. My second question is on the NSA system. It looks like things are moving rapidly in the space. So I was wondering if you can help us better understand this opportunity as it relates to LSA. Has there been more of a customer shift of interest from LSA to NSA? Or do you see NSA as a separate [predeal] opportunity? Or do you see NSA taking some share from (inaudible).
偉大的。感謝。我的第二個問題是關於國家安全局的系統。看起來空間裡的事物正在快速移動。所以我想知道您是否可以幫助我們更好地了解這個與 LSA 相關的機會。是否有更多客戶的興趣從 LSA 轉向 NSA?還是你認為國家安全局是一個單獨的[交易前]機會?或者您是否認為國家安全局從(聽不清楚)中獲取了一些份額。
William John Miller - CEO & Director
William John Miller - CEO & Director
I would say NSA is a really complementary incremental served available market opportunity for us in both logic and memory. I would say, if I were to look like today, our LSA served available market is totals about $500 million, $400 million in logic and about $100 million in memory. I would say if I were to click forward to 2027, I would say probably 2/3 of our business will be in LSA, our traditional LSA. We're actually planning to put evals out in the field for customers next node road map. So it's clearly an active product and about 1/3 from nanosecond annealing. And so we're right now sizing the 27 market at $600 million in laser annealing and about $300 million in this incremental NSA business, both kind of equally split between logic and memory.
我想說,美國國家安全局在邏輯和內存方面對我們來說是一個真正互補的增量服務可用市場機會。我想說,如果我今天看起來像這樣,我們的 LSA 服務的可用市場總計約為 5 億美元,邏輯領域為 4 億美元,記憶體領域約為 1 億美元。我想說,如果我點擊前進到 2027 年,我會說我們的業務可能有 2/3 將來自 LSA,也就是我們的傳統 LSA。實際上,我們計劃為客戶的下一個節點路線圖進行現場評估。所以它顯然是一個活躍的產品,大約 1/3 來自納秒退火。因此,我們現在將 27 市場規模確定為 6 億美元的雷射退火業務和約 3 億美元的增量 NSA 業務,這兩種業務在邏輯和內存之間均等。
Operator
Operator
Our next question comes from the line of Dave Duley with Steelhead Securities.
我們的下一個問題來自 Steelhead Securities 的 Dave Duley。
David Duley - Managing Principal
David Duley - Managing Principal
Thanks for giving us the assortment of helpful information here. I guess, first off, on -- you mentioned that you were seeing potential for evaluation systems to be shipped into a second high bandwidth memory customer. Could you just remind us how big the high-bandwidth with memory opportunity or TAM is now? And how much bigger it might be with another customer. And if you had to guess when you might see production systems to customer number two, when that might be? .
感謝您在這裡為我們提供各種有用的信息。我想,首先,您提到您看到了將評估系統運送到第二個高頻寬記憶體客戶的潛力。您能否提醒我們現在記憶體機會或 TAM 的高頻寬有多大?以及與其他客戶的合作可能會大多少。如果您必須猜測何時可以看到第二號客戶的生產系統,那可能是什麼時候? 。
William John Miller - CEO & Director
William John Miller - CEO & Director
Yes. So we see numerous opportunities in AI overall split between GPUs, high-bandwidth memory and advanced packaging. And so in the totality, we've kind of sized that all that business at about 10% of Veeco's revenue this year. And I think Obviously, as we bring on a second HBM memory provider, I would think that we would -- that would probably drive incremental, I don't have the number right at the tip of my thumb here, but I would say probably $30 million, $50 million over a year, 2-year period for that customer. I would say, Dave, at this point, we are in the demo phase, not yet to the point of an evaluation agreement.
是的。因此,我們在人工智慧領域整體上看到了 GPU、高頻寬記憶體和先進封裝之間的大量機會。因此,總的來說,我們將所有這些業務的規模確定為 Veeco 今年收入的 10% 左右。我認為顯然,當我們引入第二個 HBM 內存提供商時,我認為我們會——這可能會推動增量,我這裡沒有這個數字,但我想說可能是為該客戶提供3000 萬美元、一年2 年期5000 萬美元。我想說,戴夫,目前我們正處於演示階段,尚未達到評估協議的階段。
And so from the time we place an eval, that would probably be a year of evaluation plus integration. So we -- I don't believe we would expect any revenue in '24 and maybe this would probably be up more in mid-25 time frame.
因此,從我們進行評估的那一刻起,那可能是評估加整合的一年。所以我們 - 我不相信我們會期望 24 年有任何收入,也許在 25 年中期可能會增加更多。
David Duley - Managing Principal
David Duley - Managing Principal
And then could you just help us understand what -- how big you think, I understand there's several opportunities here, but I think the biggest driver of your revenue now is in the memory area. Could you help us understand how big the high-bandwidth memory opportunity is either in '23 or '24 or whenever you'd like to, how much revenue Veeco should get from that market? .
然後您能否幫助我們了解您認為有多大,我知道這裡有很多機會,但我認為您現在收入的最大驅動力是在記憶體領域。您能否幫助我們了解 23 年或 24 年的高頻寬記憶體機會有多大,或者您願意什麼時候了解,Veeco 應該從該市場獲得多少收入? 。
William John Miller - CEO & Director
William John Miller - CEO & Director
Yes. It's hard to say, Dave, and here's why. Last quarter, we became qualified with our first customer in HBM. We've now learned that we're qualified in their more most advanced generic memory. And so for us, we can't now know before I could say these shipments were going to high bandwidth memory. But now we don't really know what's the mix between high bandwidth and standard memory. So it gets very hard for us to look at it in totality. But if I step back and look at it at a higher level in laser annealing, we see ultimately the opportunity in aggregate for laser annealing to be a $900 million market in 2017 and about half of that in memory. And the mix between .
是的。這很難說,戴夫,原因如下。上個季度,我們獲得了 HBM 的第一個客戶的認可。我們現在了解到,我們有資格使用他們最先進的通用記憶體。因此,對於我們來說,在我說這些出貨量將用於高頻寬記憶體之前,我們現在無法知道。但現在我們並不真正知道高頻寬和標準記憶體之間的組合是什麼。所以我們很難全面地看待它。但如果我退後一步,從更高的層面來看待雷射退火,我們最終會發現,2017 年雷射退火市場的整體機會將達到 9 億美元,其中大約一半來自記憶體。以及之間的混合。
David Duley - Managing Principal
David Duley - Managing Principal
Just to clarify. So you basically said your first high-bandwidth memory customer has now taken your LSA product, not just in the high bandwidth memory, but in the standard DDR5 and other products? .
只是為了澄清。所以您基本上是說您的第一個高頻寬記憶體客戶現在已經採用了您的LSA產品,不僅在高頻寬記憶體中,而且在標準DDR5和其他產品中? 。
William John Miller - CEO & Director
William John Miller - CEO & Director
Yes. .
是的。 。
David Duley - Managing Principal
David Duley - Managing Principal
Okay. Then just to switch gears or did you have something to add on to what you were saying because I interrupted you.
好的。然後只是換個話題,或是你有什麼要補充的嗎,因為我打斷了你。
William John Miller - CEO & Director
William John Miller - CEO & Director
No, I'm fine.
不我沒事。
David Duley - Managing Principal
David Duley - Managing Principal
Okay. And then this NANO LSA TAM information. That was awesome. Do you think the applications in the foundry and logic business are going to be tied to backside power and gate all around or -- is that the way we should be thinking about it and that's when we would expect the ramp of that type of revenue? Or maybe just elaborate a little bit more for us? .
好的。然後是這個 NANO LSA TAM 訊息。這太棒了。您是否認為代工和邏輯業務中的應用程式將與背面電源和閘極相關聯,或者—這是我們應該考慮的方式,並且那時我們預計該類型的收入會增加?或者也許只是為我們詳細說明一下? 。
William John Miller - CEO & Director
William John Miller - CEO & Director
Yes. I would say, yes, there are opportunities in backside power distribution that customers are very interested in evaluating our nanosecond annealing tool floor. But there are also other applications that they're just starting to explore things like void reduction, recrystallization and really, we haven't sized those markets. But when we talk to customers, they're very interested in trying those type applications out with this new product. .
是的。我想說,是的,客戶對評估我們的奈秒退火工具底板非常感興趣,在背面配電方面存在機會。但還有其他應用,他們剛開始探索諸如空隙減少、再結晶等,實際上,我們還沒有確定這些市場的規模。但當我們與客戶交談時,他們非常有興趣透過這款新產品嘗試這些類型的應用程式。 。
David Duley - Managing Principal
David Duley - Managing Principal
Okay. Final question for me just has to do with the Epi tool for silicon carbide, could you just give us a little bit more elaborate update on when you expect demos and evaluations and whatnot? And then just you mentioned that you have a single wafer approach. I think the other guys in the market are a batch approach. Why are you pursuing this particular approach? And what do you think the advantages are .
好的。對我來說,最後一個問題與碳化矽的 Epi 工具有關,您能否給我們一些更詳細的更新信息,說明您何時期望演示和評估等?然後您剛剛提到您有單晶圓方法。我認為市場上的其他人都是批量方法。您為什麼採用這種特殊方法?您認為優點是什麼?
William John Miller - CEO & Director
William John Miller - CEO & Director
I would say, Dave, that we are on track with our plan post our silicon carbide epi equipment company acquisition in January of this year. We have tool operating in Somerset, New Jersey. We are running films. We've demonstrated high growth rate. We've demonstrated good film quality. Good uniformity, morphology, et cetera. And we're building out our demo bingo sheet, if you will, and making progress there.
Dave,我想說,在今年 1 月收購碳化矽外延設備公司後,我們的計劃正在按計劃進行。我們在新澤西州薩默塞特擁有正在運行的工具。我們正在放映電影。我們展示了高成長率。我們已經展示了良好的薄膜品質。良好的均勻性、形態等。如果您願意的話,我們正在建立我們的演示賓果表,並在這方面取得進展。
Our plan is to be demo-ready by year-end. And so we're feverishly working toward that with the goal of putting a few silicon carbide evaluation systems out in the field next year. So I feel we're on track with the original plan we laid out. Regarding your question on single wafer versus batch, we've spoken to a lot of Tier 1 customers in the industry. And we feel very comfortable with our single wafer approach in that there's really no solution on the market today that meets all of our customers' needs. And -- and they really, from introducing the tool to customers and having some customers crawl over the tool. They really like the simplicity of the machine.
我們的計劃是在年底前做好演示準備。因此,我們正在為此積極努力,目標是明年將一些碳化矽評估系統投入使用。所以我覺得我們正在按照我們最初制定的計劃走上正軌。關於您關於單晶圓與批次的問題,我們已經與業內許多一級客戶進行了交談。我們對單晶圓方法感到非常滿意,因為當今市場上確實沒有解決方案可以滿足我們所有客戶的需求。而且——他們確實是從向客戶介紹該工具到讓一些客戶瀏覽該工具。他們真的很喜歡機器的簡單性。
They like the opportunity that the design has to be green to green from going into a maintenance cycle and then coming out of a maintenance cycle. And these tools require today a fair amount of maintenance, which is a real detractor to the cost of ownership and also the fact they're putting so many machines in these fabs, they really needed to be -- they can't all be run by a PhD. And this, I think, is an area where Veeco has excelled in the past and putting large fleets of equipment in place. And so we feel pretty comfortable with where we stand today in silicon carbide.
他們喜歡這樣的機會:設計從進入維護週期到結束維護週期都必須是綠色的。如今,這些工具需要大量的維護,這確實降低了擁有成本,而且事實上,他們在這些工廠中放置瞭如此多的機器,它們確實需要——它們不能全部運行由博士學位。我認為,這是 Veeco 過去表現出色並部署了大量設備的領域。因此,我們對碳化矽目前的狀況感到非常滿意。
Operator
Operator
Our next question comes from the line of Mark Miller with Benchmark.
我們的下一個問題來自 Mark Miller 與 Benchmark 的對話。
Mark S. Miller - Senior Equity Analyst
Mark S. Miller - Senior Equity Analyst
Congratulations another good quarter. Just was wondering in terms of your data storage business, are there opportunities as we transition into HAMR type technology for upgrades that you would expect next year or this year also?
恭喜又一個美好的季度。只是想知道,就您的資料儲存業務而言,當我們過渡到 HAMR 類型技術時,是否有機會進行您期望明年或今年的升級?
William John Miller - CEO & Director
William John Miller - CEO & Director
There might be some, but I would say it's probably not a major driver of our business. What would be probably more interesting is as HAMR becomes more broadly adopted, the view is the complexity of the head increases, and therefore, the number of deposition and etch steps increases as well, which hopefully should be a tailwind for equipment demand as HAMR becomes more broadly adopted. .
可能有一些,但我想說這可能不是我們業務的主要驅動力。更有趣的是,隨著 HAMR 得到更廣泛的採用,人們認為磁頭的複雜性會增加,因此沉積和蝕刻步驟的數量也會增加,隨著 HAMR 的發展,這有望成為設備需求的動力。更廣泛地採用。 。
Mark S. Miller - Senior Equity Analyst
Mark S. Miller - Senior Equity Analyst
Okay. Your guidance for this quarter and also last quarter, margins have come up. I'm just wondering about your current backlog. What does the margin profile look like similar to what you've been seeing in the last 2 quarters?
好的。你們對本季和上季的指導,利潤率都上升了。我只是想知道你們目前的積壓情況。利潤狀況與您過去兩個季度的情況相似嗎?
John P. Kiernan - Senior VP & CFO
John P. Kiernan - Senior VP & CFO
Yes. I think, Mark, we've been working quite hard on improving our gross margins. That's been a real focus for the company. And you're right. We've increased our gross margin as the year progressed. We did see some favorable areas in terms of providing that gross margin improvement. And things like getting better efficiencies, better utilizations as we think about our manufacturing, our servicing of customers. And we've spent quite a bit of effort on that.
是的。我認為,馬克,我們一直在努力提高毛利率。這是該公司真正關注的焦點。你是對的。隨著時間的推移,我們的毛利率有所提高。我們確實看到了一些在毛利率改善方面有利的領域。當我們考慮我們的製造和客戶服務時,諸如獲得更高的效率、更好的利用率之類的事情。我們為此付出了相當多的努力。
I'm not going to specifically give a guide going into next year for gross margin. But I would say that we continue to make progress against our target margins and will give us much effort next year as we gave this year to improve gross margins going forward.
我不會特別給出明年毛利率的指引。但我想說的是,我們將繼續在目標利潤率方面取得進展,並將像今年一樣在明年付出很大努力,以提高未來的毛利率。
Operator
Operator
There are no further questions at this time. I would now like to turn the floor back over to CEO, Bill Miller for closing comments. .
目前沒有其他問題。我現在想把發言權交還給執行長比爾米勒 (Bill Miller),請他發表結束語。 。
William John Miller - CEO & Director
William John Miller - CEO & Director
Thank you, operator. I do want to thank our customers and shareholders along with the Veeco United team for their continued support as we execute our growth strategy. Good night. And have a great evening.
謝謝你,接線生。我確實要感謝我們的客戶和股東以及 Veeco United 團隊在我們執行成長策略時給予的持續支持。晚安。祝您有個美好的夜晚。
Operator
Operator
This concludes today's teleconference. You may now disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.
今天的電話會議到此結束。此時您可以斷開線路。感謝您的參與。