US Physical Therapy Inc (USPH) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the US Physical Therapy third-quarter 2025 and full year earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's call is being recorded. (Operator Instructions)

您好，感謝您的耐心等待。歡迎參加美國物理治療協會2025年第三季及全年收益電話會議。（操作員指示）請注意，今天的通話將會被錄音。（操作說明）

I'd now like to turn the call over to Chris Reading, Chairman and CEO. Please go ahead, sir.

現在我想把電話交給董事長兼執行長克里斯·里丁。請繼續，先生。

Thank you. Good morning, and welcome, everyone, to US Physical Therapy's third quarter 2025 earnings call. We've got a few of our executive team on the line with me this morning, including Carey Hendrickson, our Chief Financial Officer; Eric Williams, our President and COO of East; Rick Binstein, our Executive VP and General Counsel; Jason Curtis, our Senior Vice President of Accounting and Treasury.

謝謝。各位早安，歡迎參加美國物理治療公司2025年第三季財報電話會議。今天早上，我們公司的幾位高管和我連線，包括首席財務官凱裡·亨德里克森；東部總裁兼首席營運官埃里克·威廉姆斯；執行副總裁兼總法律顧問里克·賓斯坦；以及會計和財務高級副總裁傑森·柯蒂斯。

Before we begin to discuss our quarter and our year-to-date performance, I know we need to cover a brief disclosure. So Jason, if you would, please.

在我們開始討論本季和年初至今的業績之前，我知道我們需要先做一個簡單的揭露。傑森，如果你願意的話，請幫個忙。

Thank you, Chris. The presentation includes forward-looking statements, which involve certain risks and uncertainties. These forward-looking statements are based on the company's current views and assumptions. The company's actual results may vary materially from those anticipated.

謝謝你，克里斯。簡報中包含前瞻性陳述，其中涉及某些風險和不確定性。這些前瞻性陳述是基於公司目前的觀點和假設。本公司的實際業績可能與預期業績有重大差異。

Please see the company's filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission for more information. This presentation also includes certain non-GAAP measures as defined in Regulation G and the related reconciliations can be found on the company's earnings release and the company's presentations on our website.

請參閱該公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件以獲取更多資訊。本次簡報也包含一些根據 G 條例定義的非 GAAP 指標，相關調節表可在公司獲利報告和公司網站上的簡報中找到。

Thanks, Jason. So I'm going to start out, provide a little color on the quarter, also talk about some things that we're working on and how we kind of are looking into next year. I have some prepared comments that I'm going to touch on. I'm also going to go off script a little bit. I came out to my office this morning.

謝謝你，傑森。那麼，我將首先簡要介紹本季的情況，並談談我們正在進行的一些工作以及我們對明年的展望。我準備了一些發言稿，接下來會談到這些內容。我還要稍微偏離一下原先的稿子。我今天早上來到辦公室。

I hadn't really thought about it before this morning. And I think if I'm right, this is my 84th earnings call. So this week on my 22nd anniversary with the company, 21 years since I took over in November of 2004. So a bunch of these. I looked at our stock as the market opened. I was a little bit surprised at the reaction, frankly.

今天早上之前我都沒怎麼想過這個問題。如果我沒記錯的話，這應該是我的第 84 次財報電話會議了。本周是我在公司工作的第 22 個年頭，距離我 2004 年 11 月接任公司也已經 21 年了。所以有很多這樣的東西。市場開盤時，我查看了我們的股票。坦白說，我對這種反應感到有點意外。

I want to hit some highlights. I want to talk about what we're working on and how we look at things going forward. So I think we're looking at things maybe a little bit differently. But -- so volume has continued to be strong for us. For the quarter, we're up 18%. But certainly, a bunch of that is Metro, which you know we completed that acquisition in November. I believe it was November of last year.

我想分享一些精彩時刻。我想談談我們正在進行的工作以及我們展望未來的發展方向。所以我覺得我們看待問題的角度可能有點不同。但是——因此，我們的銷售一直保持強勁。本季我們成長了 18%。但可以肯定的是，其中許多是 Metro 的資產，你知道，我們已經在 11 月完成了對 Metro 的收購。我記得應該是去年十一月。

They're doing great. But what I want to point out is we've added a total of 84 PT facilities. So a lot more than just Metro in this last year. And that's 84 net. So we've added actually more than that and that number is net of closures. So this last quarter, visits per clinic per day produced a new record for us for Q3 of 32.2, underscoring our ability to continue to grow.

他們做得很好。但我想指出的是，我們總共新增了 84 個 PT 設施。所以，去年發生的遠不止地鐵事件。淨勝分是 84 分。所以實際上我們增加的數量比這還要多，而且這個數字已經扣除了關閉的數量。因此，上個季度，每家診所每天的就診量達到了 32.2，創下了第三季度的新紀錄，凸顯了我們持續成長的能力。

What's driving all that is the care and the service and the amazing connections that our clinical people are making every day, not just the clinical people, the people who greet our patients as they come in the door, patients come in, they're in pain, they're frightened in some cases. They're worried about the ability to do the things they've always done.

這一切的驅動力在於我們臨床人員每天提供的關懷和服務，以及他們建立的奇妙連結。不僅是臨床人員，還有那些在病人進門時迎接他們的人。病人進來時，他們很痛苦，在某些情況下，他們很害怕。他們擔心自己是否還能像以前那樣做事。

As I mentioned last earnings call, last quarter, our net promoter score over 90, almost mid-90s with a 95% active promoter score for our -- across our entire company for our patients in our outpatient facilities, just incredible. So look, none of this is perfect at any given point, but we are making a difference in a lot of patients' lives.

正如我在上個財報電話會議上提到的，上個季度，我們的淨推薦值超過 90 分，接近 95 分，我們整個公司門診患者的活躍推薦值高達 95%，這簡直令人難以置信。所以你看，這一切在任何方面都不是完美的，但我們正在改變許多患者的生活。

Those patients recognize the value and the service they're getting from us. They pay their bills, collect their money and then we get them back later when pickleball happens or there's something else that causes their function to be impacted. This quarter, again, maybe it's against the soft quarter a year ago a bit, but gross profit grew 30%. I haven't said those numbers in a long time.

這些患者認可我們提供的服務及其價值。他們支付賬單，收取款項，然後當匹克球比賽或其他事情影響到他們的功能時，我們再把他們接回來。雖然與去年同期疲軟的業績相比，本季毛利成長了 30%。我很久沒說過這些數字了。

Even if you adjust out some of the noise from a year ago, still mid-teens gross profit increase number for PT. And that's in the middle of an inflationary period in a period where staff is more expensive. We impacted our salary and related cost per visit. On a year-over-year basis, it actually went down some.

即使剔除一年前的一些幹擾因素，PT 的毛利仍實現了兩位數以上的成長。而且這正值通貨膨脹時期，員工成本也更高。我們影響了員工薪資和每次就診的相關成本。與上年同期相比，實際上有所下降。

We're working on a number of initiatives, including AI-driven documentation, including what I refer to as the semi-virtualization of our front desk operations and that's rolling out. We have a target for that by year-end of 200 facilities, about halfway there, but we're beginning to see some impact from both of those things. And we've got more to come. We're just on the front end of the number of these things, which take some time.

我們正在推動多項舉措，包括人工智慧驅動的文檔處理，以及我所說的前台營運的半虛擬化，這項舉措正在逐步推出。我們的目標是到年底建成 200 個設施，目前已經完成了一半左右，但我們開始看到這兩項措施都產生了一些影響。我們還有更多精彩內容即將推出。我們目前還處於這類事情的初期階段，這需要一些時間。

As we look at the year, one of the big headwinds we've been faced with quite honestly now for five years is this Medicare headwind. CMS produced a final rule on Friday. It came out as it often does, there were some incorrect tables in our part and that we had to contact CMS about and took them a couple of days. They looked at it. In fact, they were incorrect.

回顧這一年，坦白說，我們五年來面臨的一大不利因素就是醫療保險的不利因素。美國醫療保險和醫療補助服務中心（CMS）於週五發布了最終規則。結果和往常一樣，我們這邊有一些錯誤的表格，我們不得不聯絡CMS，他們花了幾天才解決。他們看了看。事實上，他們的說法是錯誤的。

They updated those tables. It's gotten a little bit better than last time we talked. I think last time -- and we're not done with our analysis. Last time, we said it was going to be about a 1.5% increase, probably a little better than that right now. This year is more complicated than most because of the significance and the change in the geographic index factors that kind of shuffled all around the country.

他們更新了那些表格。情況比上次我們談話時好了一些。我認為上次——而且我們的分析還沒結束。上次我們預測增幅約 1.5%，現在看來可能會略好。今年情況比往年更加複雜，因為地理指數因素的重要性及其變化在全國範圍內發生了某種程度的重新洗牌。

One of the things that swung for us, it's a net positive manual therapy, which is when we put our hands on our patients, when we mobilize joints, when we restore motion again through that very upfront and close personal contact, very precise ways. We do that on almost every patient that comes in the door. Manual therapy was slated to go down. We challenged their assumptions. And in this final rule, manual therapy will go up slightly.

促使我們做出決定的因素之一是，手法治療具有淨積極作用，即我們用手接觸患者，活動關節，透過這種非常直接和密切的個人接觸，以非常精確的方式恢復他們的活動能力。我們對幾乎每位進門的病人都會這樣做。手法治療原本計劃暫停。我們質疑了他們的假設。最後一條規定中，手法治療費用將略有上漲。

So it reversed from a negative to a slight positive. So that's positive for us as we re-sort the impact of this final rule. The other thing that I think will be meaningfully positive is that in 2024, we went and began to roll out remote therapeutic monitoring, which was a new code for us. And the rules around that code, I'm not going to go through all of it, but it required a lot of visits and a lot of monitoring, which we did with the partner, Limber, great guys and has done a great job. And -- but it was clunky.

所以情況由負面轉為略微正面。所以，當我們重新評估這項最終規則的影響時，這對我們來說是件好事。我認為另一件意義重大的正面事情是，2024 年，我們開始推出遠距治療監測，這對我們來說是一個全新的領域。至於相關的規則，我就不一一贅述了，但這需要大量的實地考察和監控，我們和合作夥伴 Limber 一起完成了這些工作，他們非常棒，也做得非常出色。但是——它很笨拙。

It took a little while. We had to integrate Limber's tool into our EMR system. That took some considerable time, wasn't within our control, frankly. And by the end of the year, we hadn't gotten the traction with our partnerships that we had hoped. Now what CMS has appreciated, which is what we've appreciated, the patients who go through and have as part of their care remote therapeutic monitoring actually get better outcomes, they're more engaged with their home program and they're more adherent to their total program, which helps in their exiting function.

花了一點時間。我們必須將 Limber 的工具整合到我們的電子病歷系統中。坦白說，這花了相當長的時間，而且不在我們的控制範圍內。到年底，我們的合作關係並沒有達到預期的效果。現在，CMS 和我們都非常讚賞的是，接受遠距治療監測的患者實際上獲得了更好的治療效果，他們更積極地參與家庭治療計劃，並且更能堅持整個治療方案，這有助於他們的康復。

And so CMS, again, with encouragement from groups like APTQI and others, they've reduced significantly the number of visits that it takes in order to get to a billable code. We now have a fully integrated working model through an app, which integrates well with our EMR. And so beginning 2026, this will be kind of a reinitiation of that opportunity for us, which we're just right now scanning the surface of.

因此，在 APTQI 等組織的鼓勵下，CMS 再次大幅減少了獲得計費代碼所需的就診次數。我們現在透過一個應用程式實現了完全整合的工作模式，該應用程式與我們的電子病歷系統完美整合。因此，從 2026 年開始，這將是我們重新獲得這個機會的契機，而我們現在只是在探索這個機會的表面。

So for the first time in a while, we're going to see some blue sky in 2026 in terms of -- particularly in terms of Medicare reimbursement. We see additional opportunity around remote therapeutic monitoring. And then we've got these internal initiatives to help with our efficiency and our patient flow and our cost overall.

所以，一段時間以來，我們第一次將在 2026 年看到一些曙光——尤其是在醫療保險報銷方面。我們看到了遠距治療監測方面的巨大潛力。此外，我們還有一些內部舉措，旨在提高效率、優化患者就診流程並降低整體成本。

So that's very encouraging. I want to shift gear a minute and talk a little bit about our injury prevention. Both of those teams are doing really well this year. I read a report that one of the reports that injury prevention for the quarter was disappointing. Look, this quarter, we've lapped an acquisition that we had in the last quarter still as part of those numbers, which gave us mid-20s revenue growth. If I remember right, it's 14%, 15%. That's purely organic. Still strong revenue growth. That's where we've been.

這真是令人鼓舞。我想稍微轉換一下話題，談談我們的傷病預防工作。這兩支球隊今年都表現得非常出色。我讀到一份報告，其中一份報告稱，該季度的傷害預防工作令人失望。你看，本季度，我們已經超過了上個季度的一項收購，這項收購仍然包含在這些數字中，這使我們的收入增長了 20% 左右。如果我沒記錯的話，應該是 14% 或 15%。那完全是有機的。營收成長依然強勁。我們一直都在那裡。

We've got other injury prevention opportunities in the pipeline. We continue to love this business. Deals happen when we get them done. We don't talk about them and we don't put information out ahead of time. But you're going to continue to see us grow this business because we have high confidence in our teams in both injury prevention partnerships.

我們還有其他預防傷害的機會正在籌備中。我們依然熱愛這份事業。交易只有在我們完成任務後才能達成。我們不談這些事，也不會提前放出訊息。但你們將會看到我們繼續發展這項業務，因為我們對我們在傷病預防合作方面的團隊充滿信心。

We have other things in the market that we like that we think are going to be impactful, help us to grow our industry verticals and help us to grow our service opportunities. And we started this in 2017 and we had a great team, but we had a very small company, very narrow service line. That service -- those service lines have broadened significantly over the years.

我們還有其他一些我們認為很有前景的產品，它們將會產生影響，幫助我們拓展產業垂直領域，並幫助我們增加服務機會。我們從 2017 年起步，當時我們擁有一支很棒的團隊，但公司規模很小，服務範圍也很窄。這些服務—這些服務範圍近年來已大幅擴大。

Teams got even stronger and our industry verticals have gotten wider and wider as we've added more programs and services. So you're going to see that continue to be a strong focus for us. So let me just say this in closing. I touched on a number of things. This is a team that doesn't give up. We've had a lot of headwinds over the year. We always find a way.

隨著我們不斷增加專案和服務，團隊實力更加強大，我們的產業垂直領域也越來越廣泛。所以你會看到，這仍然是我們重點關注的領域。最後，我只想說一句。我談到了很多事情。這是一支永不放棄的隊伍。這一年我們遇到了很多不利因素。我們總能找到辦法。

If you look at the Medicare cuts that we've absorbed in these last few years, they aggregate to over 11%. If you look at the impact just in this year, it's $25 million profit impact. And yet we found a way throughout all those years to continue and it's going to be gone. We have some good things in the mix.

如果你看看我們在過去幾年所承受的醫療保險削減，它們加起來超過了 11%。僅就今年而言，其對利潤的影響就高達 2,500 萬美元。然而，這麼多年來我們一直找到了繼續下去的方法，但這種方法即將消失。我們有一些不錯的組合。

We still have a great capital structure, and we have a very, very strong resolve to take this company forward and do the things that we've said we're going to do. So with that, I'm going to turn it over to Carey to cover the details, and we look forward to your questions. Thank you.

我們仍然擁有良好的資本結構，我們有非常非常堅定的決心帶領公司向前發展，實現我們承諾要做的事情。那麼，接下來我將把發言權交給凱瑞，讓她來介紹細節，我們期待大家的提問。謝謝。

Great. Thank you, Chris. Appreciate it, and good morning, everyone. Let me highlight a few performance metrics that drove our strong results in the third quarter, some of which Chris has covered, but just to emphasize them. Our average visits per clinic per day was 32.2 and that's the highest third quarter volume per clinic per day in our company's history.

偉大的。謝謝你，克里斯。謝謝，大家早安。讓我重點介紹一下推動我們第三季取得強勁業績的幾個績效指標，克里斯已經介紹過其中一些，但為了強調一下，我再補充幾點。我們診所平均每天每家診所接待 32.2 位顧客，這是我們公司歷史上第三季每家診所每天接待顧客量最高的一次。

Our total patient visits increased 18% year-over-year, supported by the 84 net owned clinic additions Chris mentioned, since the third quarter, 2.2% increase in visits in our mature clinics. Our PT salaries and related costs per visit actually decreased this quarter. They decreased $0.40 per visit compared to the prior year.

我們的患者就診總量年增了 18%，這得益於 Chris 提到的自第三季以來新增的 84 家淨自有診所，以及我們成熟診所就診量增加了 2.2%。本季我們的物理治療師薪資和每次就診的相關成本實際上有所下降。與前一年相比，每次就診費用降低了 0.40 美元。

That's the first time we've seen a decline in our salaries and related costs since the fourth quarter of 2023. And then our IIP revenue grew almost 15% and our IIP gross profit was up nearly 11%, which is all organic growth. And then finally, our adjusted EBITDA increased $2.8 million or 13.2% to $23.9 million.

這是自 2023 年第四季以來，我們首次看到薪資及相關成本下降。然後，我們的 IIP 收入成長了近 15%，IIP 毛利成長了近 11%，這全部都是內生成長。最後，我們的調整後 EBITDA 成長了 280 萬美元，增幅為 13.2%，達到 2,390 萬美元。

Turning to patient visit volumes. We recorded 1,524,070 clinic visits in the third quarter, along with 30,137 home-care visits. Our average visits per clinic per day, as I mentioned, was 32.2. That -- and it was 32.2 in July. It was 31.9 in August and then 32.7 in September, which follows our normal seasonal pattern with volumes typically picking up in September after the summer months.

接下來我們來看看患者就診量。第三季度，我們記錄了 1,524,070 人次門診就診，以及 30,137 人次家庭護理就診。正如我之前提到的，我們診所平均每天接待 32.2 位顧客。 7 月也是 32.2 位。8 月為 31.9，9 月為 32.7，這符合我們正常的季節性模式，夏季月份過後，銷量通常會在 9 月回升。

Our home-care visits continue to build nicely. They moved from just under 23,000 in the first quarter to a little above 28,000 in the third quarter and now a little above 30,000 in the third quarter. So those continuing to build. Our net rate per patient visit for the third quarter was $105.54. That was up modestly from the second quarter of this year, down slightly from the third quarter of last year.

我們的居家照護服務持續穩定成長。第一季度，他們的人數略低於 23,000 人；第三季度，他們的人數略高於 28,000 人；而現在，第三季度他們的人數略高於 30,000 人。所以那些繼續建設的人。第三季我們每位病患就診的淨費用為 105.54 美元。這比今年第二季略有成長，比去年第三季略有下降。

September was our highest monthly net rate of the year, highest month of the quarter and certainly, the highest month of the year and that exceeded $106 per visit. So the trajectory there is good. As a reminder, we absorbed a 2.9% Medicare rate reduction that took effect at the start of the year and we saw some rate mix shifts a little bit in the third quarter. Most of our year-over-year visit growth came in the commercial and Medicare categories.

九月是我們全年淨收入最高的月份，也是本季最高的月份，當然也是全年最高的月份，每次就診收入超過 106 美元。所以，那裡的發展軌跡是好的。提醒一下，我們承受了年初生效的 2.9% 的醫療保險費率下調，並在第三季度看到了一些費率組合的變化。我們年度就診量的成長主要來自商業保險和醫療保險類別。

So by payer category, commercial visits year-over-year and which are about $106 a visit, though slightly above our average rate, were up about 20% in the third quarter compared with last year. Medicare visits, which averaged approximately $94 per visit, so that's below our average rate, increased 18%.

因此，按付款方類別劃分，商業就診次數同比（每次就診費用約為 106 美元）雖然略高於我們的平均水平，但第三季度比去年同期增長了約 20%。Medicare 就診費用平均每次約 94 美元，低於我們的平均水平，但增長了 18%。

And then workers' compensation visits at roughly $145 per visit increased at a lesser rate of 5%, partly because we're cycling some significant increases in our workers' comp business in the prior year. And we're continuing to focus on expanding our higher rate workers' comp business and expect to add several new workers' comp network relationships before the end of this year.

然後，工傷賠償就診費用（每次就診約 145 美元）的增長速度較慢，為 5%，部分原因是我們在前一年工傷賠償業務中經歷了一些顯著的增長。我們將繼續專注於擴大高額工傷賠償業務，並預計在今年年底前新增幾個工傷賠償網絡合作關係。

Our physical therapy revenues were $168.1 million in the third quarter of 2025, which was an increase of $25.4 million or 17.8% from a year ago. Most of that growth came from acquisitions we completed since last year with Metro and PT in New York, which we acquired last November, contributing $19.5 million to our third quarter revenue. Our PT operating costs totaled $136.9 million.

2025 年第三季度，我們的物理治療收入為 1.681 億美元，比去年同期增加了 2,540 萬美元，增幅達 17.8%。大部分成長來自我們自去年以來完成的收購，例如去年 11 月收購的紐約 Metro 和 PT，為我們第三季的營收貢獻了 1,950 萬美元。我們的PT營運成本總計1.369億美元。

That was an increase of $18.2 million or 15.3% compared to the same quarter last year. Importantly, as I mentioned, we managed cost effectively. As I noted earlier, salaries and related costs per visit decreased year-over-year from $62.47 in the third quarter of '24 to $60.07 in the third quarter of '25.

與去年同期相比，增加了 1,820 萬美元，增幅達 15.3%。重要的是，正如我之前提到的，我們實現了有效的成本控制。正如我之前提到的，每次就診的工資和相關成本同比下降，從 2024 年第三季的 62.47 美元降至 2025 年第三季的 60.07 美元。

Total operating cost per visit increased just 1%, moving from $86 per visit last year to $86.88 this year, which we view as a strong result given the inflationary environment. Our physical therapy operating margin was 18.6%. As a reference point, we made a small reallocation of amortization between our PT and IIP segments in the third quarter and then we adjusted the prior year amounts to align with the current year presentation.

每次就診的總營運成本僅增加了 1%，從去年的每次就診 86 美元增加到今年的 86.88 美元，考慮到通貨膨脹環境，我們認為這是一個強勁的結果。我們的物理治療業務營業利益率為 18.6%。作為參考，我們在第三季度對 PT 和 IIP 分部之間的攤銷進行了少量重新分配，然後調整了上一年的金額，以與本年度的列報方式保持一致。

And we'll continue that approach going forward, making a prospective change on that. The change results in a slight increase of about 20 to 30 basis points in our PT margin across all periods and then a decrease of about 170 to 200 basis points in the IIP margin. Speaking of IIP, as Chris mentioned, our IIP delivered another strong performance.

我們將繼續沿用這種方法，並對此做出預期的改變。這項變更導致我們所有時期的 PT 利潤率略微上升約 20 至 30 個基點，而 IIP 利潤率則下降約 170 至 200 個基點。說到 IIP，正如 Chris 所提到的，我們的 IIP 再次取得了強勁的表現。

In the third quarter IIP net revenues increased $3.7 million or 14.6%, while IIP income rose $546,000 or 10.7%. And again, emphasizing this growth is all organic. We have not made any IIP acquisitions since the third quarter of last year and our IIP margin for the third quarter was 19.6%.

第三季 IIP 淨收入成長 370 萬美元，成長 14.6%；IIP 營收成長 54.6 萬美元，成長 10.7%。再次強調，這種成長完全是自然發生的。自去年第三季以來，我們沒有進行任何 IIP 收購，第三季的 IIP 利潤率為 19.6%。

Turning to corporate costs. They remained in line with expectations. Our corporate expenses were 8.5% of net revenue compared with 8.6% in the third quarter of 2024. As I mentioned last quarter, we're in the early stages of implementing a new enterprise-wide financial and human resources system.

接下來談談企業成本。它們與預期相符。我們的公司支出佔淨收入的 8.5%，而 2024 年第三季為 8.6%。正如我在上個季度提到的，我們正處於實施新的企業級財務和人力資源系統的早期階段。

During the third quarter, we incurred about $700,000 in implementation costs related to that project. And consistent with our practice for similar nonrecurring items, we add those costs back to our adjusted EBITDA calculation. Operating results for the third quarter were $10.1 million, down slightly from $10.4 million a year ago. That small decline was mostly due to lower interest income of $1 million.

第三季度，我們因該專案產生了約 70 萬美元的實施成本。與我們對類似非經常性項目的做法一致，我們將這些成本加回調整後的 EBITDA 計算中。第三季營業利潤為 1,010 萬美元，略低於去年同期的 1,040 萬美元。這一小幅下滑主要是因為利息收入減少了100萬美元。

We had excess cash on our balance sheet in the third quarter of last year, but that's now all been deployed into acquisitions. So we didn't get the interest income associated with that. And then we also had higher interest expense of $400,000. That's associated with the higher debt balance this year because we made acquisitions and put a small amount on a revolver, which we didn't have anything on our revolver last year in the third quarter.

去年第三季度，我們的資產負債表上有多餘的現金，但現在這些現金都已全部用於收購。所以我們沒有獲得相關的利息收入。此外，我們的利息支出也較高，為 40 萬美元。這與今年較高的債務餘額有關，因為我們進行了收購，並將少量資金投入了循環信貸，而去年第三季度我們的循環信貸額度為零。

On a per share basis, operating results were $0.66 compared with $0.69 in the same quarter last year. Our balance sheet remains in excellent shape. We currently have $132 million on our term loan with a swap agreement in place that fixes the interest rate at 4.7% through mid-2027. In addition, we have a $175 million revolving credit facility with $26.5 million drawn on it at September 30, 2025.

以每股計算，營業利潤為 0.66 美元，而去年同期為 0.69 美元。我們的資產負債表狀況依然良好。我們目前有 1.32 億美元的定期貸款，並已簽訂互換協議，將利率固定在 4.7%，直至 2027 年年中。此外，我們還有 1.75 億美元的循環信貸額度，截至 2025 年 9 月 30 日已提取 2,650 萬美元。

We ended the quarter with $31.1 million in working capital cash. We've not yet repurchased any shares under the share repurchase program we established in August. We view that as a prudent tool to have at our disposal, but acquisitions will continue to be our primary capital allocation priority, consistent with our long-term growth strategy.

本季末，我們的營運資金現金餘額為3,110萬美元。我們尚未根據8月份設立的股票回購計畫回購任何股票。我們認為這是一個值得擁有的審慎工具，但收購仍將是我們主要的資本配置優先事項，這與我們的長期成長策略一致。

Finally, as noted in our release, we reaffirmed our adjusted EBITDA guidance to be in the range of $93 million to $97 million for full year 2025, reflecting our third quarter results and then our current expectations for the remainder of the year. And with that, I'll turn the call back over to Chris.

最後，正如我們在新聞稿中所述，我們重申了 2025 年全年調整後 EBITDA 預期，為 9,300 萬美元至 9,700 萬美元，反映了我們第三季的業績以及我們對今年剩餘時間的預期。那麼，我就把電話轉回給克里斯了。

Thanks, Carey. Okay, operator, I know we have some questions. So let's go ahead and open up the lines and happy to take those questions.

謝謝你，凱瑞。好的，接線生，我知道我們還有些問題。那麼，我們就開通問答環節吧，我很樂意回答大家的問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

Brian Tanquilut, Jefferies.

Brian Tanquilut，傑富瑞集團。

Hey, good morning, guys.

嘿，大家早安。

Good morning.

早安.

Maybe, Chris, I'll ask first. I mean, what are you seeing in the demand environment for physiotherapy? And then kind of like the other side of that, how are you seeing or what are you seeing in terms of clinician recruitment and retention? I mean, I know you guys called out the decline in salary per visit. So just curious what are the dynamics that you're seeing there?

或許，克里斯，我先問問看吧。我的意思是，您認為目前對物理治療的需求環境如何？另一方面，您在臨床醫生招募和留任方面看到了什麼？我知道你們都指出了每次出診收入下降的問題。所以，我很好奇你觀察到了那裡的哪些動態？

Yes. Demand has, for us, pretty much all year continued to be strong. I would say in the quarter, we had a little bit of a shift between July and August. July was better -- much better than we expected. It actually was very similar to June, which doesn't normally happen. And then August was a little bit softer, concerned us a little bit and then we popped right back up in September.

是的。對我們來說，今年以來需求一直都很強勁。我想說，本季中，7 月到 8 月之間出現了一些變化。七月的情況好得多——比我們預期的好得多。實際上，今年的天氣與六月非常相似，這種情況並不常見。八月情況稍微好轉了一些，這讓我們有點擔心，但九月我們又迅速反彈了。

And so I think what happened was we just -- we were busier in July than normal. We probably shifted some summer vacations into August, which impacted us a little bit. These are slight number shifts. Demand pretty much been good everywhere. On the supply side, on the labor side, we made a number of investments over the last year plus in terms of our recruiting, new tracking, applicant tracking platform, new people and resources devoted toward developing more robust school relationships and services and programs, content actually for students that are still in school.

所以我覺得發生的情況是──我們在7月比平常更忙。我們可能把一些暑假改到了八月份，這對我們造成了一些影響。這些只是數值上的細微變化。各地需求基本上都很好。在供給方面，在勞動力方面，過去一年多以來，我們在招聘、新的追蹤、申請人追蹤平台、新人員和資源方面進行了大量投資，致力於發展更強大的學校關係、服務和項目，以及為仍在學校就讀的學生提供的內容。

And that, we think, is paying dividends. Our time to fill down. Our turnover has been really good, really across all parts of the company. But we're definitely not paying people less. The market is not soft by any stretch. Young therapists still have a lot of debt when they come out of school and plenty of opportunity in terms of employment where they can go. And so it's competitive in that regard. But I think we made some incremental positive strides over the last 12 to 15 months in terms of our infrastructure, our ability and our capability and we're seeing that pay off.

我們認為，這樣做正在帶來回報。我們的時間用來填滿。我們的營業額一直都很好，公司各部門的營業額都成長很快。但我們絕對沒有降低員工薪資。市場遠未達到疲軟的程度。年輕的治療師畢業時仍然背負著許多債務，但他們也有很多就業機會可以選擇。因此，在這方面它具有競爭力。但我認為在過去的 12 到 15 個月裡，我們在基礎設施、能力和實力方面取得了一些漸進的積極進展，而且我們正在看到這些進展得到回報。

Got it. That makes sense. And then Carey, as I think about your cash generation, I mean, decently good cash flows in the quarter. I know you announced the buyback last quarter, but did not have that. So just curious how you're thinking about opportunities on the M&A side versus weighing share buybacks.

知道了。這很有道理。凱瑞，就我所見，你的現金流在本季表現相當不錯。我知道你們上個季度宣布了股票回購計劃，但並沒有實現。所以我很好奇，您是如何看待併購方面的機會，以及您是如何權衡股票回購的。

And also, I know you and I have had conversations about how IIP is a focus area for M&A. So maybe if you can just touch on that in terms of why that is.

而且，我知道你我曾討論過IIP是併購的重點領域。所以，您能否就此稍作解釋？

Yes. Sure. On the repurchase side, as I mentioned in my remarks, I mean, we think that's a good tool to have at our disposal and we weigh that versus acquisitions, but certainly acquisitions at this point. We've got a number of them that are in process that we hope to get across the finish line in the relatively near term. But it's just a much better use of our capital at this point or acquisitions because that's their -- the acquisitions we're looking at, to your point, are IIP acquisitions for the most part.

是的。當然。關於回購方面，正如我在演講中提到的，我們認為這是一個很好的工具，我們會權衡它與收購之間的關係，但目前肯定更傾向於收購。我們有好幾個項目正在進行中，希望能在不久的將來完成。但就目前而言，這才是更好地利用我們資本進行收購的方式，因為正如你所說，我們正在考慮的收購項目大多是 IIP 收購。

We're going to continue to do PT acquisitions, but we are focused on IIP because of the return dynamics. I mean, the growth prospects in that side of the business are just -- are better. And so that's where we're really focusing a lot of our IIP. Our acquisition attention is on that side of the business with better revenue growth, better profit growth there. So -- and we need that segment to get larger. So that's what we're really looking at. Yes.

我們將繼續進行PT收購，但由於回報動態，我們目前專注於IIP。我的意思是，這方面的業務成長前景要好得多。所以，這就是我們IIP真正關注的重點領域。我們的收購重點是業務中收入成長和利潤成長更好的領域。所以——我們需要讓這個群體變得更大。所以，這就是我們真正關注的重點。是的。

Yeah. Awesome, thank you.

是的。太棒了，謝謝。

Benjamin Rossi, JPMorgan.

班傑明‧羅西，摩根大通。

Hey, thanks, good morning. Appreciate you taking my question here. So I was hoping you could discuss some of the competitive dynamics that you may be seeing across your markets and physical therapy, just given some of your commentary about the strong demand backdrop. I guess just when we think about existing market competition, your primary end markets in Medicare, commercial and workers' comp, can you just kind of walk through competitive dynamics this year? And maybe if you're seeing any pressure from newer offerings or coverage [models] that have kind of changed some of your inbound demand?

嘿，謝謝，早安。感謝您回答我的問題。所以，鑑於您之前對強勁的需求背景發表了一些評論，我希望您能談談您在市場和物理治療領域可能看到的一些競爭動態。我想，當我們考慮現有的市場競爭時，你們的主要終端市場是醫療保險、商業保險和工傷賠償，您能否簡要介紹一下今年的競爭動態？或許您也看到了來自新產品或覆蓋模式的壓力，這些壓力在某種程度上改變了您的部分客戶需求？

Yes, Ben, it's hard to quantify. And particularly, it's hard to say, well, this year is different than prior years. I can tell you, and again, I'm going to speak in some generalities. I'm not going to call anybody out. But across our market, we typically compete with small practices, mom-and-pops. We compete with hospital-based practices, where PT is often primarily not their top of the list in terms of product lines. And then we compete with other large providers and other consolidators in the market.

是的，本，這很難量化。尤其是很難說，今年與往年有何不同。我可以告訴你，而且我再次強調，我只會泛泛而談。我不會點名批評任何人。但在我們的市場中，我們通常與小型診所、夫妻店競爭。我們與醫院附屬診所競爭，而物理治療通常不是他們產品線中的首要考慮因素。然後，我們與市場上的其他大型供應商和其他整合商競爭。

And really, since, I would say, since the latter part of 2022, some of the larger PE-backed companies have been balance sheet-constrained. And so we're seeing multiples on the acquisition side come down a little bit. That wasn't specifically your question, but we have seen an impact there. In terms of boots on the ground and who gets which patient, really hard to measure. We all have relationships.

實際上，我認為從 2022 年下半年開始，一些較大的私募股權支持的公司就受到了資產負債表的限制。因此，我們看到收購方面的倍數略有下降。雖然這並非您具體提出的問題，但我們已經看到了這方面的影響。就實際到位人員以及誰負責哪位病人而言，真的很難衡量。我們每個人都有人際關係。

We're all out there looking to try to get and keep the relationships that we have and expand into new relationships. It's a competitive market, but we're in as good a position as anybody just because our balance sheet is so good. So we have the ability to deploy resources.

我們都希望能夠維繫現有的人際關係，並拓展新的人際關係。市場競爭激烈，但我們的資產負債表非常穩健，所以我們的處境並不比任何人差。因此我們有能力部署資源。

We have the ability to make long-term investments and make decisions that aren't based upon acuity or crisis or other balance sheet-pressured things. And so I think over time, it's to our benefit, which is one of the reasons our visits per clinic per day continue to move up in spite of the general market challenges overall.

我們有能力進行長期投資，並做出不基於敏銳的商業嗅覺、危機應對或其他受資產負債表壓力影響的決策。因此，我認為從長遠來看，這對我們是有利的，這也是儘管市場整體面臨挑戰，我們診所每天的就診量仍然持續上升的原因之一。

Got it. Okay. Appreciate the comments there. I guess, just thinking about the broader backdrop across your maybe mature cohort and the volume growth there, can you kind of just parse out core growth figures and maybe how that core growth looked across those main segments like Medicare, commercial and workers' comp or at least maybe like directionally, what was up or what was down year-over-year?

知道了。好的。感謝大家的評論。我想，考慮到您可能已經成熟的客戶群體及其業務量增長的更廣泛背景，您能否分析一下核心增長數據，以及這些核心增長在醫療保險、商業保險和工傷賠償等主要細分市場中的表現，或者至少從方向上看，哪些方面同比上升，哪些方面同比下降？

Yes. Sure. So within the mature clinic mix, commercial and Medicare were both up. Commercial was up in visits about 2.5% -- 2.5% to 3%. Medicare was up about 4.5%. So those visits both increases on -- to take those two together, it was about a 3.5% increase in commercial and Medicare. Similar to our overall business, workers' comp dipped a little bit in their number of visits year-over-year in the third quarter.

是的。當然。因此，在成熟的診所組合中，商業保險和醫療保險的覆蓋率均有所上升。商業廣告訪問量增加了約 2.5%——2.5% 至 3%。聯邦醫療保險支出增加了約 4.5%。因此，商業保險和醫療保險的就診量都增加了——兩者加起來，增加了約 3.5%。與我們整體業務類似，第三季工傷賠償的就診次數較去年同期略有下降。

So that kind of affected the rate a little bit for the mature clinics there in the quarter. So our visit growth was 2.2% and then our rate growth in mature clinics because of that -- a little bit of that mix shift I just talked about and the fact that commercial and Medicare are -- commercial is right at our rate.

所以，這在一定程度上影響了該季度成熟診所的成長率。因此，我們的就診量增加了 2.2%，成熟診所的就診率也因此增長——這其中有一點我剛才提到的組合變化，以及商業保險和醫療保險——商業保險的就診率與我們持平。

Medicare is a little bit low rate and that's where we saw the growth, but then workers' comp dipped a little bit, which is a high-rate payer category. That rate decreased 2% for -- it was 2.0% for the third quarter in mature clinics. So 2.2% visit growth, 2% revenue growth. So it was up just slightly from a revenue standpoint year-over-year. And that's my category that I'll see. Yes.

醫療保險的費率略低，因此我們看到了成長，但工傷賠償金有所下降，而工傷賠償金是一個高費率的支付類別。該比率下降了 2%——成熟診所第三季的比率為 2.0%。因此，訪問量增長了 2.2%，收入增長了 2%。因此，從收入角度來看，年比僅略有成長。這就是我要看的類別。是的。

Yeah. Great, thanks for the color.

是的。太好了，謝謝你提供的顏色。

Joanna Gajuk, Bank of America.

Joanna Gajuk，美國銀行。

Good morning. Thanks for taking the question. So just a very quick follow-up on the final Medicare rate being based on the proposal, you kind of estimated it will be, call it, $1.5 million to $2.5 million to adjusted EBITDA. So based on your, I guess, updated estimate of that impact, it sounds like it's not finally, but where do you land right now in terms of adjusted EBITDA tailwind?

早安.感謝您回答這個問題。那麼，關於最終的 Medicare 費率是基於該提案的，我只想快速跟進一下，您估計它將為調整後的 EBITDA 增加 150 萬美元到 250 萬美元。所以，根據你更新後對該影響的估計，聽起來似乎還沒有最終確定，但就調整後的 EBITDA 利好因素而言，你目前的結論是什麼？

So --

所以--

I don't think we're there yet.

我認為我們還沒達到目標。

Yes. We're not there yet.

是的。我們還沒到那一步。

It doesn't come out until Tuesday. So --

要到週二才公佈。所以--

Yes. And it's a pretty complicated calculation. We have to go through by market. But I would say the increase we expect to be, I think, really more of a floor of 1.5% now, whereas we thought that may be kind of right where we ended up, I think that's kind of a floor of 1.5% and there could be -- it could be greater than that. And we'll certainly give more color on that on our next call. But the fact that it's a positive going into 2026 is really, really good.

是的。這是一個相當複雜的計算。我們必須通過市場。但我認為，我們預期的成長幅度，現在更像是1.5%的底線，而我們之前認為這可能就是最終的水平，我認為1.5%只是一個底線，而且可能會更高。我們下次通話時一定會對此進行更詳細的說明。但就2026年而言，這是一個積極的信號，這真的非常好。

All right. So I guess, yes, it's going to be a little bit better than that number. So that's, call it, 2% adjusted EBITDA growth next year just for that. I know you're not giving guidance and you said you're finalizing a lot of different things. But anything else we should be thinking about in terms of tailwinds and headwinds into next year?

好的。所以我想，是的，這個數字會比預期的稍微好一點。所以，光是這一點就能帶來明年 2% 的調整後 EBITDA 成長。我知道你沒有給出指導意見，而且你說過你正在敲定很多不同的事情。但就明年可能出現的順風和逆風而言，我們還應該考慮哪些因素呢？

Other than what we've talked about, we're working on some cost things. Obviously, those are beginning to come through AI-driven documentation, virtualization at the front desk. We talked about remote therapeutic monitoring being now an update to our high priority work list for 2026, where there's some reimbursement that we're not tapping into right now just because of the complexities historically around how the government set up and funded this program. It's gotten much more logical and much more doable.

除了我們討論過的內容之外，我們還在研究一些成本上的問題。顯然，這些正在透過人工智慧驅動的文件和前台虛擬化來實現。我們討論了遠距治療監測，現在將其列入我們 2026 年的高優先級工作清單，由於政府在歷史上設立和資助該計劃的方式較為複雜，我們目前還沒有利用一些報銷資金。現在這件事變得更加合乎邏輯，也更容易實現了。

And so we'll focus on that. And then we got some things that we haven't talked about yet that we're not quite ready to talk about that will be very positive next year that we expect to give an update when we give guidance and talk about our year-end numbers. We think we'll be far enough along then to lay it all out.

所以我們將重點放在這方面。然後我們還有一些事情還沒有談到，我們目前還不方便談論，但這些事情明年將會非常積極，我們預計會在發布業績指引和討論年終數據時提供最新消息。我們認為到那時，我們的進展應該已經夠順利，可以把所有細節都公佈出來了。

Yes. And on the headwinds side --

是的。逆風方面--

Oh, go ahead.

哦，請便。

To give anything significant on the headwinds, we've had -- obviously, the big major headwind we've had the last five years has been the Medicare rate and we thankfully don't have that headwind going into 2026. So that's why at this point, we'll give the guidance later, but we feel good about kind of how things are shaping up for 2026.

要說我們面臨的重大不利因素，顯然，過去五年我們面臨的最大不利因素是醫療保險費率，值得慶幸的是，到 2026 年我們不會再面臨這種不利因素了。所以，目前我們稍後會給予指導意見，但我們對 2026 年的發展前景感到樂觀。

Okay. And if I may, a different topic, different question. I noticed in the release, there's some additional reversals of the payouts from acquisitions. I think you had this in a couple of quarters in a row. So anything in particular? Like what's causing that reversal?

好的。如果可以的話，我想換個話題，問個問題。我注意到公告中還有一些收購收益的額外調整。我想你連續幾個季度都遇到了這種情況。有什麼特別的嗎？是什麼導致了這種逆轉？

I'm sorry, that's on what, Joanna?

對不起，喬安娜，那是什麼？

On the payouts from acquisitions. So you said, I think, $11 million this quarter.

關於收購帶來的效益。所以你說過，我想，這季是1100萬美元。

Yes. That's really just -- it's a -- it's -- every quarter, we reproject kind of where we think they're going to end up for whatever the earn-out period is and we have to make adjustments based on the Monte Carlo simulation. I just -- so it's really just based on actual performance. But we put lofty targets out there for our acquisitions to achieve and we expect them to achieve that. And if they don't quite get there, then we have to back it off a little bit. Chris, would you -- anything else you'd say about that?

是的。實際上，每個季度，我們都會重新預測他們在獲利期結束後的最終表現，我們必須根據蒙特卡羅模擬結果進行調整。我只是——所以這真的只是基於實際表現。但我們為收購目標設定了遠大的目標，我們也期望它們能夠實現這些目標。如果他們沒能完全達到目標，那麼我們就得稍微放慢腳步。克里斯，你還有什麼要補充的嗎？

No. I mean, it's just a quarter-to-quarter adjustment that predicts -- attempts to predict where we'll end up at the end of another period. It's -- to be honest, it's an exercise that I don't think is particularly meaningful, but we have to do it. And so it goes up and down every quarter. Not actually what we're spending at any given time.

不。我的意思是，這只是一個季度間的調整，用來預測——試圖預測我們在另一個時期結束時會達到什麼水平。說實話，我覺得這項練習意義不大，但我們必須做。所以它每季都會上下波動。實際上並不是我們任何時候的實際支出。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

Larry Solow, CJS Securities.

Larry Solow，CJS Securities。

Hello. Great, hey Chris, good morning. Good morning, everybody. Congrats on your 84th call. I think if I do the math, this is my 73rd one listening in. It's been a fun ride. I guess just first question, I appreciate all the color on the volumes. Just in terms of the mature clinics, I know they were a little bit flat to last quarter and pretty flat this quarter on both the price and a volume, I guess.

你好。太好了，嗨，克里斯，早安。大家早安。恭喜你接到第84通電話。我算了一下，這應該是我第 73 次聽了。這段旅程充滿樂趣。我想先問第一個問題，我很喜歡這些卷冊上豐富的色彩。就成熟診所而言，我知道它們的價格和銷售量與上個季度相比略有持平，而本季也基本持平。

So net, just -- and you've discussed the pricing pretty well. You parsed that out pretty well. Just any thoughts on the flatter volumes and how you can maybe -- is that just a timing thing, staffing issue? Any color there?

所以總而言之——而且你已經很好地討論了定價問題。你分析得相當透徹。關於銷量趨於平穩的問題，您有什麼想法嗎？這只是時間安排問題，還是人員配置問題？那裡有顏色嗎？

Yes. I mean, my sense is that any time you're focused on trying to wring out cost, you probably wring out a little bit of volume. And so you kind of have to pick your poison and we're trying to obviously get it right in each and every situation and there are literally thousands upon thousands of those situations when you look at daily schedules and how many therapists we have and all of it. And I don't look at 2.2% as flat, although it's -- I would rather it have been 3%, let's say, more on our average. And on the flip side, we made a little bit of an impact on the cost side.

是的。我的意思是，我的感覺是，任何時候你專注於降低成本，你可能會降低一些產量。所以你必須做出選擇，而我們顯然想在每一種情況下都做到最好，當你查看每日日程安排、我們有多少治療師等等所有資訊時，你會發現實際上有成千上萬種這樣的情況。我不認為 2.2% 是平穩的，雖然它確實很平穩——我更希望它能達到 3%，比如說，更接近我們的平均水平。另一方面，我們在成本方面也取得了一些成效。

So I think there's probably some impact there from trying to be as efficient as you can and not have slack resources. Slack resources allows you to take a walk up and have people just show up and be able to deal with them. And when you don't have slack resources, it makes it a little bit harder to do that. And so I think that's part of it probably.

所以我覺得，為了盡可能提高效率而不留任何閒置資源，可能會產生一些影響。Slack資源讓你直接上門，讓人們隨時出現並處理他們的問題。當資源不足時，這樣做就更難了。所以我覺得這可能是原因之一。

And I know, appreciate that. In terms of the ERP, the new ERP system, which is, I guess, a modest headwind in terms of cost today, does that become a benefit, a lot of your other -- your AI virtual notes taking stuff like that, too. So maybe hard to isolate that by itself, but does that end up being an efficiency benefit at some point?

我知道，我很感激。就 ERP 而言，新的 ERP 系統，就目前而言，在成本方面可能是一個小小的阻力，但這是否會成為一種優勢，以及你們的許多其他功能——例如 AI 虛擬筆記功能等等。所以，或許很難單獨分析這一點，但這最終是否會在某些方面帶來效率上的好處呢？

Certainly, Larry --

當然，拉里--

Go ahead, Carey.

請繼續，凱瑞。

It'll be a big efficiency positive for us in the finance and accounting area. And with the human resource side, too, so it'll be a really good tool for all of our employees to use for. It'll be a kind of one-stop place they can go and get all their HR information and their financial information too if they have financials that they need to view.

這將大大提高我們在財務和會計領域的效率。而且對人力資源方面也很有幫助，所以對我們所有員工來說，這將是一個非常好的工具。這將是一個一站式平台，他們可以在這裡獲取所有的人力資源信息，如果他們需要查看財務信息，也可以在這裡獲取財務信息。

So everything will be viewed there is the same. And I think what it does is just provide us more -- provides us quicker and probably more information to manage our business. But that -- from that perspective, it's going to create some efficiencies and positives for sure.

所以在那裡，所有事物都會被視為相同。我認為它的作用是為我們提供更多——更快、可能更多的資訊來管理我們的業務。但從這個角度來看，這肯定會帶來一些效率提升和正面影響。

Great. If I could just switch gears from one last quickly on the injury prevention. It sounds like really knocking out of the park on the top line, mid-teens growth. I don't know, is that number hard to say sustainable over a multiyear period, but it does feel like you do expect that business to certainly grow faster than the PT business. I guess any color there?

偉大的。如果我能快速地從最後一個關於預防受傷的話題轉換主題就好了。聽起來像是在主要方面取得了巨大的成功，實現了十幾歲中期的成長。我不知道，這個數字能否在多年內持續下去還很難說，但感覺上，你確實應該期望這項業務的成長速度肯定會比PT業務更快。我猜那裡應該有顏色吧？

And then the follow-up would be, there was a little bit of a gross margin came in a little bit, I guess, year-over-year. Anything we should be concerned about on the IIP side?

然後後續情況是，毛利率略有上升，我想，是同比上升的。IIP方面有什麼需要我們注意的嗎？

Carey, you take the gross margin one because you touched on that, so maybe reclarify that.

凱瑞，你來談談毛利率的問題，因為你之前提到過，所以也許可以再解釋一下。

Yes. So gross margin, but when you look at it year-over-year, it did for IIP come down a little bit. It was 20.3% on the properly adjusted basis in 2024 and was 19.6% in the third quarter of this year. So a little bit of dip there, but that margin continues to be really, really strong and near that 20% mark. Part of it is we have added some auto clients, which -- over the last year, which have a little bit lower margin, but that's good business.

是的。所以毛利率有所上升，但與去年同期相比，IIP 確實略有下降。在適當調整後，2024 年的成長率為 20.3%，而今年第三季的成長率為 19.6%。所以雖然略有下滑，但利潤率仍然非常非常高，接近 20% 的水平。部分原因是，我們在過去一年增加了一些汽車客戶，這些客戶的利潤率略低，但這仍然是一筆不錯的生意。

That's why you see that top line growing at 15%, but not quite as much on the bottom line growth, 11% because it kind of depends on the mix of the business there and what the margins are for those. But nothing really notable to point out related to the margin difference quarter-over-quarter.

這就是為什麼你會看到營收成長了 15%，但利潤成長卻沒有那麼快，只有 11%，因為這在某種程度上取決於業務組合以及這些業務的利潤率。但就季度環比利潤率差異而言，並沒有什麼特別值得指出的地方。

Yes. And Larry, in terms of growth, I don't know if -- I don't pretend to have a perfect crystal ball, but in terms of [17%] -- we've been growing at a pretty good clip. In the early first couple of years, year-over-year growth was more like 30% or 40% for a while. As we get bigger, it gets a little bit harder and I think mid-teens is a pretty good number right now. But as we add these other companies and we pick up more services, it gives us a bigger opportunity to cross-sell.

是的。至於成長方面，我不知道──我不敢說自己有完美的預知能力，但就[17%]而言──我們的成長速度相當不錯。在最初的幾年裡，年增長率一度達到 30% 或 40%。隨著我們長大，事情會變得有點難，我認為現在十幾歲是一個相當不錯的數字。但隨著我們增加這些其他公司並提供更多服務，我們就有了更大的交叉銷售機會。

So in that regard, I do think there's a sustainability element, particularly as we've added programs over the years that -- and our team has gotten better at cross-selling. And so I think we can grow certainly at an outsized rate compared to PT when you look at organic growth.

所以從這個角度來看，我認為確實存在可持續性因素，特別是隨著這些年來我們增加了一些項目——而且我們的團隊在交叉銷售方面也做得越來越好。因此，我認為，就有機成長而言，我們的成長速度肯定比 PT 快得多。

Okay, thank you for all the color. I appreciate it.

好的，謝謝你們帶來的繽紛色彩。謝謝。

Constantine Davides, Citizens.

康斯坦丁·達維德斯，公民。

Chris, just on the home-care visits, can you just talk about directionally how you think that's heading? Are these still largely confined to the Metro asset? Or have you expanded the model out to any of the other logos at this point?

克里斯，就居家照護探訪而言，你能談談你認為目前的進展方向嗎？這些資產目前是否仍主要侷限於地鐵系統？或者，您目前是否已將該模型擴展到其他任何標誌？

Yes. Eric, do you want to take -- I'm going to let Eric speak to that. But yes, it's primarily Metro.

是的。艾瑞克，你想談談嗎？ ——我還是讓艾瑞克來談談這個問題吧。但沒錯，主要是地鐵。

Yes. And it's really regional. So it's outside of New York. I mean, we've expanded into the New Jersey market. Michael had the biggest footprint, obviously, in home-care operating out of New York. It's easy to expand as we go to city over and a state over.

是的。而且這確實具有地域性。所以它在紐約以外的地方。我的意思是，我們已經拓展到了新澤西州市場。顯然，邁克爾在紐約的家庭護理業務中影響力最大。隨著我們從一個城市擴展到另一個城市，從一個州擴展到另一個州，擴張就變得容易了。

And so I still think that's going to be the area where we have the biggest expansion opportunity. But we are looking elsewhere within the portfolio around where we can replicate that and make an impact. So we still believe that it can generate growth for us as we continue to grow forward. But right now, most of it will be in the Northeast.

所以我仍然認為，那將是我們擁有最大擴張機會的領域。但我們正在投資組合中的其他領域尋找可以複製這種模式並產生影響的機會。因此，我們仍然相信，隨著我們不斷發展壯大，它能夠為我們帶來成長。但目前來看，大部分都會集中在東北部。

And can you maybe speak to the relative margin differential between a home-based visit and just kind of historical level of margins on the core PT business?

您能否談談上門服務與核心物理治療業務的歷史利潤率水準之間的相對利潤率差異？

I'll speak little specifically to New York, New Jersey. I mean, obviously, so it's -- they're -- we're treating Medicare. The Medicare reimbursement up in the Northeast is very, very favorable as compared to other parts of the country. And doing home-care, you do generate pretty decent margins because your only real overhead associated with home-care is labor rates. And you pay a little bit more for home-care staff, but margins are held back and get you a number for you.

我不會具體談論紐約州和新澤西州。我的意思是，很明顯，所以——他們——我們正在對待聯邦醫療保險。與美國其他地區相比，東北地區的醫療保險報銷政策非常非常優惠。而且，從事居家照護工作可以獲得相當不錯的利潤，因為居家照護工作唯一的真正開銷就是人工費。居家照護人員的費用會稍微高一些，但利潤會被壓縮，最終給你一個合理的價格。

I don't have that in front of me. It won't be the case everywhere. I mean, there's markets where just based on cost of labor and Medicare rates it won't make as much sense for us. But right now, the Northeast is very, very healthy rate. We're able to find labor and generate economies of scale, which is another big part of the program.

我手邊沒有那個東西。並非所有地方都是如此。我的意思是，在某些市場，僅僅從勞動成本和醫療保險費率來看，對我們來說這樣做就不太划算。但目前，東北地區的發生率非常非常健康。我們能夠找到勞動力並實現規模經濟，這是該計劃的另一個重要組成部分。

I mean, when you bring home-care people on, while they're typically paid on a per visit basis, your ability to attract staff is really based on having the ability to give them a full schedule. And so for us, it's easier to grow off of an existing program and expand as we move into different ZIP. A little bit lower margins, we're just starting up a program for the first time. So I hope that color helps a little bit.

我的意思是，當你僱用家庭護理人員時，雖然他們通常是按次付費的，但你吸引員工的能力實際上取決於你是否能夠給他們安排滿滿的工作時間。因此，對我們來說，在現有項目的基礎上發展壯大，並隨著我們進入不同的郵遞區號區域而擴展，會更容易一些。利潤率略低，因為我們是第一次啟動這個專案。所以我希望顏色能起到一點幫助。

No, it does. That's great. And then Chris, in your prepared remarks, you highlighted just the really strong growth in the number of facilities. And I guess I'm more focused on de novos here, but it looks like you're going to be pushing probably in the 35 to 40 range this year.

不，確實如此。那太棒了。然後，克里斯，在你事先準備好的演講稿中，你重點強調了設施數量的強勁增長。我猜我更關注的是新項目，但看起來你今年可能會達到 35 到 40 個項目。

So I'm wondering what's the limiting factor on that? And is this kind of a new normal in terms of what you're targeting year in, year out? Or is this just -- is 2025 just a year of just more pronounced de novo growth?

所以我想知道這方面的限制因素是什麼？這是否已成為你們每年努力追求的新常態？或者，2025 年只是新業務成長更為顯著的一年嗎？

No. No. So limiting factor first. Limiting factor, really not our ability to get de novos out of the ground. We could do more than we're doing. It's having the right person ready to take over that facility in a leadership position and then being able to backfill that person in the existing clinic.

不。不。所以首先要考慮限制因素。限制因素，其實不是我們啟動全新研發專案的能力。我們本來可以做得更多。關鍵在於找到合適的人選來接管該機構的領導職位，然後能夠在現有診所中找到合適的人選來填補空缺。

And so that's part of it. And our partners have to be willing to take a near-term dip in distributions and other things, again, to fund that facility and get it up and out of the ground. Having said that, we've got some things that we're working on behind the scenes.

所以，這是其中的一部分。我們的合作夥伴必須願意在短期內減少分紅和其他方面的支出，以便為該設施提供資金並使其建成投產。話雖如此，我們還有一些幕後工作正在進行中。

Again, this falls into the category of haven't fully lifted the curtain yet that will help us in certain markets accelerate our de novo opportunity and that's something we'll spend some time on, I think, in February when we release our year-end earnings and talk about what we expect to do going forward. That's a general time frame when we're going to be ready to kind of talk about some of these other things. But I think in that 30 to 50 range is likely where we'll be.

同樣，這屬於尚未完全揭開神秘面紗的範疇，這將有助於我們在某些​​市場加速實現我們的全新發展機遇，我認為我們將在2月份發布年終收益報告並討論我們未來發展方向時花些時間來探討這個問題。大致時間範圍是，屆時我們將準備好討論其他一些事情。但我認為我們最終的排名可能會在 30 到 50 之間。

Great. Thank you, Chris.

偉大的。謝謝你，克里斯。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

Mike Petusky, Barrington Research.

Mike Petusky，巴林頓研究公司。

Okay. Carey, I know that you talked to the year-over-year decline in gross margin in IIP, but I'm actually more confused and you may have addressed this and I missed it but confused by the sequential decline in that gross margin. Did you talk about that? Or could you talk about that?

好的。Carey，我知道你談到了IIP毛利率同比下降的問題，但我其實更困惑了，你可能已經談到過這個問題但我錯過了，我對毛利率的環比下降感到困惑。你們有談過這件事嗎？或者您能談談這個嗎？

Yes. So I mentioned it on the call that we had some amortization that was -- that had been being allocated to the PT segment that really should have been allocated to the IIP segment. So we made that adjustment and we're going to make that on a prospective basis. And so it increased our PT margin a little bit by about 20 (technical difficulty) decreases our IIP margin by 170 to 200 basis points. So when you look -- so there -- so the last quarter that we actually reported is not apples to this third quarter.

是的。所以我在電話會議上提到，我們有一些攤銷款項被分配給了 PT 部門，而這些款項實際上應該分配給 IIP 部門。所以我們做出了調整，而且今後也會繼續這樣做。因此，由於技術難度，我們的PT利潤率略微提高了約20個基點，而我們的IIP利潤率則下降了170至200個基點。所以當你看到——所以——所以我們實際報告的上一季與這第三季並不相同。

But as we go along, we'll just prospectively present that in the same manner going forward with that IIP amortization actually squarely placed in IIP. So yes, but if you look at any of that, like the second quarter last -- of this year would have been 170 to 200 basis points less than what we showed in our report.

但隨著時間的推移，我們將以相同的方式進行前瞻性呈現，並將 IIP 攤銷實際直接計入 IIP。是的，但如果你看一下這些數據，例如去年第二季——今年的數據會比我們在報告中顯示的數據少 170 到 200 個基點。

Got you. Okay. Perfect. And then in terms of workers' comp, what percentage of overall revenue was workers' comp in this quarter?

抓到你了。好的。完美的。那麼，就工傷賠償而言，本季工傷賠償佔總收入的百分比是多少？

Yes, hold on one second. I believe it was -- it's right at 9.6%, I believe is what it was. 9.7%. It was 9.7%. And we did -- overall, we did see workers' comp growth just in visits. It was about a 5% increase in workers' comp visits for our total book of business, just mature clinics.

好的，稍等一下。我相信是－－應該是9.6%，我相信就是這個數字。9.7%。是9.7%。總體而言，我們確實看到工傷賠償案件數量有所增加。在我們全部業務中，僅​​就成熟診所而言，工傷賠償就診量增加了約 5%。

When I was speaking of mature clinics, it was down a little bit in mature clinics, but it is up overall 5%. It just didn't see as big a growth as commercial and Medicare, which were at 20% and about 18%, respectively. So we did see increase in workers' comp visits.

當我談到成熟診所時，成熟診所的數量略有下降，但總體而言增加了 5%。它的成長速度遠不及商業保險和聯邦醫療保險，後兩者的成長速度分別為 20% 和 18% 左右。因此，我們確實看到工傷賠償就診人數增加。

I'm happy to throw a little bit more color on the work comp side here. To Carey's point, the growth wasn't as robust as what we've been seeing over really 2024 and first couple of quarters this year, it was around 5% on the visit side. It was around 5% year-over-year growth on the rate side. And Q3 revenues were up just under 10%, Q3 '25 compared to Q3 '24. On a year-to-date basis, revenues are up 19% in work comp, visits are up about 9% and rate has been up about 9.4%.

我很樂意在這裡為工作補償增添一些色彩。正如凱瑞所說，2024 年及今年前幾季的成長不如我們所看到的那麼強勁，訪問量方面增長了約 5%。利率方面，年增約 5%。第三季營收比 2024 年第三季成長了近 10%。今年迄今為止，工傷賠償收入增加了 19%，訪問量增加了約 9%，費率增加了約 9.4%。

We signed 11 new contracts in 2025 with work comp, two of which came online in Q1, four of them Q2, two of them late Q3 and three of them are coming online in late Q4. So we still have growth opportunity that we're going to see on the work comp side. There's also a concerted effort around volume pull-through and a focus on our PPO contracts which pay a higher rate than some of the work comp specialty networks. So we still foresee good growth on the work comp visit side as we move forward here into 2026.

2025 年，我們與工傷賠償機構簽訂了 11 份新合同，其中兩份在第一季度生效，四份在第二季度生效，兩份在第三季度末生效，三份將在第四季度末生效。因此，我們在工傷賠償方面仍然有成長機會。此外，我們還專注於提高業務量，並專注於我們的 PPO 合同，這些合約的支付費率高於一些工傷賠償專業網絡。因此，我們仍然預計，隨著我們邁入 2026 年，工傷賠償探訪方面將出現良好的增長。

Okay. Great. And just a couple more quick ones. The 1.5% is what you guys are calling probably a floor on the Medicare update for '26. I mean, could the ceiling be as high as 2%? Or are we really talking it's 1.5% or it's 1.6% or 1.7%, like pretty close?

好的。偉大的。再快速回答幾個問題。你們說的1.5%可能是2026年醫療保險改革的最低標準。我的意思是，上限能達到 2% 嗎？還是我們說的其實是 1.​​5%、1.6% 或 1.7%，非常接近？

My gut tells me it's going to be pretty close to 1.5%, 1.6%, 1.7% probably. I don't know that it gets to 2%. What could take it to 2% is if we can ramp up remote therapeutic monitoring and get that a meaningful percentage of our Medicare patients, that would pick us up a few dollars per visit over the course of the case. And so that would be a nice lift. That would be a difference maker. But we think on the base -- the reason this is so complicated right now, so many of the geographic index factors, which normally don't move very much, moves a lot.

我的直覺告訴我，結果應該在1.5%、1.6%、1.7%左右。我不知道它是否能達到 2%。如果我們能夠加大遠距治療監測的力度，並讓相當一部分 Medicare 患者接受這種監測，那麼這個比例就能達到 2%，每次就診就能為我們帶來幾美元的收入。那將會是一次不錯的提升。那將產生決定性的影響。但我們認為，從根本上講——目前這種情況如此複雜的原因是，許多地理指數因素（通常不會發生太大變化）現在發生了很大的變化。

And so we have to model not only kind of the historic look at what the changes would have done, but a prospective look. We have to estimate what we think the migration will be from Medicare Advantage to Medicare. And frankly, it's not entirely precise. It requires some guesstimation. And so that's why we're being a little less precise around this because it's not quite easy to pin the tail on it as it has been in the past.

因此，我們不僅要模擬這些變化在歷史上會產生的影響，還要模擬它們對未來的影響。我們需要估算一下從聯邦醫療保險優勢計劃 (Medicare Advantage) 到聯邦醫療保險 (Medicare) 的遷移規模。坦白說，這並不完全準確。這需要一些估算。所以，這就是為什麼我們在這方面不太精確的原因，因為不像過去那樣容易確定其根源。

Okay. Fantastic. And then just the last thing and I may -- again, I may have missed this as well. July, August, September, did you give the visits per month there?

好的。極好的。最後還有一件事，我可能──我可能又錯過了。七月、八月、九月，你每個月都去那裡進行過訪問嗎？

Yes. So I'll repeat them. Let me get that in front of me here. I know July was 32.2, yes, 32.2 July, 31.9 in August and then 32.7 in September.

是的。那我再重複一次。讓我把它拿到面前。我知道七月是 32.2，是的，七月是 32.2，八月是 31.9，九月是 32.7。

And then just the last sort of second part of that question. As your -- there's a lot of talk in news media and around the elections about sort of affordability, people are getting squeezed by persisting inflation and all the rest of it. Are you guys seeing any evidence of that impacting sort of people later in therapy? Are you hearing anything? Are you picking up anything on that?

然後就是這個問題的最後一部分，算是第二部分吧。正如你所看到的——新聞媒體和選舉期間有很多關於負擔能力的討論，人們正受到持續通貨膨脹等等問題的擠壓。你們有沒有發現任何證據顯示這種情況會對後來接受治療的人產生影響？你聽到什麼了嗎？你從中有什麼發現嗎？

I mean, what we have to look at is our duration of care, right? I mean, that's the one objective measure that we have to look at. And so duration of care hasn't dropped. It's not going backwards. It's been very steady. Eric, I don't know if you want to provide any other color on that.

我的意思是，我們必須考慮的是護理時長，對吧？我的意思是，這是我們唯一需要關注的客觀指標。因此，護理時長並沒有縮短。這並非倒退。一直都很穩定。埃里克，我不知道你是否想對此提供其他顏色資訊。

No, Chris. That's spot on. I mean, even when we went through some of those difficult periods two years ago with rapidly rising inflation and a concern that people are going to kind of hang on to the dollars, we saw absolutely no variation in our durations, and they continue to be strong and consistent throughout 2025 as well.

不，克里斯。說得完全正確。我的意思是，即使在兩年前我們經歷了通貨膨脹迅速上升、人們擔心會囤積美元的艱難時期，我們的期限也完全沒有變化，而且在2025年之前，期限也將繼續保持強勁和穩定。

Okay. Very good. Thanks, guys.

好的。非常好。謝謝各位。

And our volumes in October have been really, really good. So that's -- we haven't seen a dip there.

我們10月份的銷量真的非常好。所以，我們還沒看到這方面出現下滑。

Great. Thanks.

偉大的。謝謝。

Thanks, Mike.

謝謝你，麥克。

And I'm showing no further questions at this time. I will now turn the program back over to our presenters for any additional or closing remarks.

我目前不再提出其他問題。現在我將把主持權交還給各位主持人，請他們作補充或總結發言。

Okay. Well, thank you, everybody. We appreciate your time this morning. We always appreciate your questions. Carey and I are available later today, through the week and into next week, of course, for any follow-up. So I hope you have a great day. Thanks again. Bye-bye.

好的。謝謝大家。感謝您今天上午抽出時間。我們一直都很歡迎大家提問。當然，我和凱瑞今天晚些時候、本週以及下週都有空，可以接受任何後續諮詢。祝你今天過得愉快。再次感謝。再見。

This does conclude today's program. Thank you for your participation. You may disconnect at any time.

今天的節目到此結束。感謝您的參與。您可以隨時斷開連線。