U-Haul Holding Company (UHAL.B) 2026 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to U-Haul Holding Company third-quarter fiscal 2026 investor conference call. (Operator Instructions) I would now like to turn the conference call over to Sebastien Reyes. Please go ahead.

各位女士、各位先生，早安，歡迎參加 U-Haul Holding Company 2026 會計年度第三季投資人電話會議。（接線員指示）現在我想把電話會議交給 Sebastien Reyes。請開始。

Good morning, and thank you for joining us today. Welcome to the U-Haul Holding Company third-quarter 2026 investor call. Before we begin, I'd like to remind everyone that certain of the statements during this call, including, without limitation, statements regarding revenue, expenses, income and general growth of our business, may constitute forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Safe Harbor provisions of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 as amended and Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934 as amended.

早安，感謝各位今天加入我們。歡迎參加 U-Haul Holding Company 2026 年第三季投資人電話會議。在開始之前，我想提醒各位，本次電話會議中的某些陳述，包括但不限於關於營收、費用、收入以及我們業務整體成長的陳述，可能構成《1933 年證券法》（修訂版）第 27A 條及《1934 年證券交易法》（修訂版）第 21E 條「安全港」條款所定義的前瞻性陳述。

Forward-looking statements are inherently subject to risks and uncertainties, some of which cannot be predicted or quantified. Certain factors could cause actual results to differ materially from those projected. For a discussion of the risks and uncertainties that may affect the company's business and future operating results, please refer to the company's public SEC filings and Form 10-Q for the quarter ended December 31, 2025, which is on file with the US Securities and Exchange Commission. I'll now turn the call over to Joe Shoen, Chairman of U-Haul Holding Company.

前瞻性陳述本質上受到風險與不確定性的影響，其中部分無法預測或量化。某些因素可能導致實際結果與預期結果出現重大差異。關於可能影響公司業務及未來營運結果之風險與不確定性的討論，請參閱公司向 SEC 公開提交的文件，以及截至 2025 年 12 月 31 日止季度的 10-Q 表格，該文件已提交至美國證券交易委員會。接下來我把電話交給 U-Haul Holding Company 董事長 Joe Shoen。

Good morning, everybody. As you read in the press release, we continue to have earnings pulled down due to excessive acquisition costs of vans and pickups in model years '23 and '24. This has hit earnings hard, and you can see it in increased depreciation and originally declining gains on sale and now losses on sale of vans and pickups exiting the fleet. To a much lesser extent, the enormous post-COVID price increases on internal combustion engine vehicles is dogging our box trucks with elevated depreciation.

各位早安。如各位在新聞稿中所見，由於 2023 與 2024 年式廂型車與皮卡的採購成本過高，我們的獲利持續受到拖累。這對獲利造成沉重打擊，從折舊增加可見一斑；此外，原本出售廂型車與皮卡的處分利益下滑，如今在車隊汰換時已轉為處分損失。在較小程度上，COVID 後內燃機車輛價格大幅上漲，也使我們的箱型卡車面臨較高折舊的壓力。

We had been accumulating internal combustion engine fleet due to predicted declines in availability of ICE-powered units going ahead. Now we are too heavy in fleet and the rental market is not responding with significant transaction increases. We are working a plan to open more U-Haul dealership locations, which will put some of this excess fleet to work while earning in return. We will likely still be overfleeted so we will need to increase sales of older, higher-mileage trucks over the next 12 months. As best as I can tell, we are holding our own and then some in the self-storage industry. For nearly 24 months, we have been adding units faster than we are renting them up. This results in a surplus of available units.

我們先前因預期未來 ICE（內燃機）車輛供應可得性將下降，而持續累積內燃機車隊。如今我們的車隊規模過重，但租賃市場並未以顯著的交易量成長作出回應。我們正在規劃開設更多 U-Haul 經銷據點，讓部分過剩車隊能投入營運並帶來回報。我們很可能仍將處於車隊過剩狀態，因此未來 12 個月需要提高出售較舊、里程較高卡車的數量。就我所見，我們在自助倉儲產業的表現不僅守住，甚至略有超越。近 24 個月來，我們新增單位的速度快於出租（入住）速度。這導致可供出租的單位出現過剩。

We're launching some initiatives intended to improve our rate of units rented over the prior year. The proof will be in the pudding, and we'll see how that develops going into summer. We now have a significant U-Box presence at over 700 locations in North America. By that, I mean a significant warehouse and depot operation. This increases our capacity and the absolute number -- well, to the extent that U-Box's self-storage, U-Box is both moving in storage. But one component of it is storage.

我們正推出一些措施，旨在提升相較去年同期的單位出租率。成效終究要看結果，我們將觀察進入夏季後的發展。目前我們在北美超過 700 個據點具備顯著的 U-Box 佈局。我指的是具規模的倉庫與集散（depot）營運。這提升了我們的容量與絕對數量——嗯，就 U-Box 的自助倉儲屬性而言，U-Box 同時涵蓋搬運與儲存。但其中一個組成部分是儲存。

To the extent U-Box is self-storage, this increases our capacity and absolute number of self-storage customers. We have over 200,000 U-Box containers in service and over 100,000 of them in the hands of customers. We have slowed our rate of adding U-Box warehouses as we have a workable presence in most markets. However, in DC, LA, Boston, New York City, and the Bay Area, we are still underserved. In Canada, we are still light on U-Box capacity in Vancouver Island and Edmonton.

在 U-Box 作為自助倉儲的範疇內，這將提升我們的容量以及自助倉儲客戶的絕對數量。我們有超過 200,000 個 U-Box 貨櫃投入服務，其中超過 100,000 個在客戶手中使用。由於我們在多數市場已建立可運作的佈局，我們已放緩新增 U-Box 倉庫的速度。然而，在華盛頓特區、洛杉磯、波士頓、紐約市以及灣區，我們的覆蓋仍不足。在加拿大方面，溫哥華島與艾德蒙頓的 U-Box 容量仍偏少。

We have projects in planning or in construction in all of these markets and I plan to carry through on these capital expenditures. We continue to heavily invest in digital tools to meet what customers expect from the industry leader. Most of this investment is expensed in the current period. With that, I'll turn it back to Jason.

我們在上述所有市場都有規劃中或施工中的專案，我計畫持續推進這些資本支出。我們也持續大力投資數位工具，以符合客戶對產業領導者的期待。這些投資多數在當期認列為費用。接下來我把電話交回給 Jason。

Thanks, Joe. Yesterday, we reported third-quarter losses of $37 million compared to earnings of $67 million for the same quarter last year. So that's a loss of $0.18 per nonvoting share this quarter compared to earnings of $0.35 per nonvoting share in the third quarter of last year. Earnings before interest, taxes and depreciation, what we're calling adjusted EBITDA, in our Moving and Storage segment decreased 11% to nearly $42 million for the quarter. On a percentage basis, that's about the same decrease that we saw in operating cash flows for the quarter as well.

謝謝你，Joe。昨天我們公布第三季虧損 3,700 萬美元，相較去年同期為獲利 6,700 萬美元。因此，本季每股無表決權股份虧損 0.18 美元，而去年第三季每股無表決權股份獲利 0.35 美元。在我們的「搬運與倉儲」部門，利息、稅項與折舊前盈餘（我們稱為調整後 EBITDA）本季下降 11%，至接近 4,200 萬美元。以百分比來看，這大致也與本季營運現金流的降幅相同。

Included in our release and financial supplement is a reconciliation of adjusted EBITDA to GAAP earnings. Depreciation and losses from the disposal of rental units continues to be a significant earnings headwind. During the third quarter of this year, we reported a $26 million loss on the disposal of retired rental equipment compared to a $4 million gain in last year's quarter. Cargo vans that we purchased over the previous two model years that are now being sold came into the fleet with a higher cost and the current market resale values have not been reflecting that, thus resulting in this loss. We've also increased the pace of depreciation on the remaining units to reflect that new reality.

我們的新聞稿與財務補充資料中包含調整後 EBITDA 與 GAAP 盈利之間的調節表。折舊以及租賃設備處分損失仍是影響獲利的重要逆風。在今年第三季，我們報告汰役租賃設備處分損失 2,600 萬美元，而去年同期為處分利益 400 萬美元。我們在前兩個年式購入、目前正在出售的貨運廂型車，其入帳成本較高，但目前市場轉售價值未能反映該成本，因此產生此項損失。我們也加快了剩餘車輛的折舊速度，以反映這一新的現實。

On top of this, we have depreciation from increasing the size of the box truck fleet by nearly 11,000 units compared to December of last year. Between fleet depreciation and the loss on disposal, we experienced a $75 million cost increase for this quarter compared to the same time last year, translated into nonvoting share EPS, that's approximately $0.24 a share.

除此之外，相較去年 12 月，我們的箱型卡車車隊規模增加近 11,000 輛，也帶來相應的折舊。在車隊折舊與處分損失之間，本季相較去年同期成本增加 7,500 萬美元；換算為每股無表決權股份 EPS，約為每股 0.24 美元。

Over three quarters of this negative variance is related to our cargo van fleet. Looking towards the future, the model year 2026 cargo van purchases that will be coming on the books this year are going to be at an average cost of about 12% lower than last year's model year. And if you compare them to two years ago, about 20% lower.

這項不利差異中，超過四分之三與我們的貨運廂型車車隊相關。展望未來，今年將入帳的 2026 年式貨運廂型車採購，其平均成本將比去年年式約低 12%。若與兩年前相比，則約低 20%。

For the third quarter, our equipment rental revenues results increased $8 million or just under 1% compared to the same time the year before, the majority coming from in-town portion of our business. Comparing the end of December 2025 to the same time in 2024, we added 65 new company-operated locations, and we had a net increase of 365 independent dealers. These new locations, as Joe mentioned, are expected to help us better distribute the larger fleet and increase transactions.

第三季我們的設備租賃營收較去年同期增加 800 萬美元，增幅略低於 1%，其中大部分來自我們的市內（in-town）業務。比較 2025 年 12 月底與 2024 年同期，我們新增 65 個公司自營據點，並淨增加 365 家獨立經銷商。如 Joe 所提，這些新據點預期將協助我們更有效分配較大的車隊並提升交易量。

For January, our results were trending quite positive prior to the onset of the significant weather activity that hit much of the country has certainly slowed the improvement over the last 1.5 weeks or so. Capital expenditures for new rental equipment in the first nine months of this year were $1.748 billion. It's a $162 million increase compared to nine months -- same nine-month period last year.

就 1 月而言，在全國多地出現顯著天候事件之前，我們的結果趨勢相當正面；但該天候狀況確實在過去約 1.5 週左右放緩了改善速度。今年前九個月用於新租賃設備的資本支出為 17.48 億美元。相較去年同期九個月期間增加 1.62 億美元。

Looking at the last 12 months, so that would be the calendar year of 2025, our gross fleet spend was approximately $2.025 billion. If you net out equipment sales, we got down to $1.331 billion. I'm estimating close to $670 million of that growth -- of that gross spend was growth related. Initial estimates for next fiscal year are showing a decrease in new truck purchases somewhere north of $500 million. Storage revenues were up $18 million or 8% for the quarter. Average revenue per foot continued to improve across the entire portfolio by just under 7%. While the same-store revenue per occupied foot was up 5%, reflecting the cumulative effects of our rate increase activity.

回顧過去12個月，也就是2025曆年，我們的車隊總支出約為20.25億美元。若扣除設備銷售收入，淨額降至13.31億美元。我估計其中接近6.70億美元的增長——也就是這筆總支出中的增長部分——與成長相關。對下一個會計年度的初步估算顯示，新卡車採購將減少超過5億美元。本季儲存收入增加1,800萬美元，或8%。整體投資組合的每英尺平均收入持續改善，增幅略低於7%。同店每已出租英尺收入上升5%，反映我們調漲費率活動的累積效果。

Our strategy of straightforward pricing with the customer and avoiding the large introductory discounts continues. Our same-store occupancy decreased 490 basis points to just over 87%. And mentioned in our last earnings call that in July, we took on an effort system-wide to increase the number of available units at existing facilities by focusing on delinquent units. This effort did not affect revenue because we don't record storage revenue until we collect it, but it has had an effect on our reported occupancy level. So of that almost 5% decrease in same-store occupancy, close to 4% of that was related to the removal of delinquent rooms.

我們持續採取對客戶透明的定價策略，並避免大幅的導入期折扣。我們的同店入住率下降490個基點，至略高於87%。並且如我們在上次財報電話會議中提到的，7月我們在全系統推動一項行動，透過聚焦逾期單位來提高既有設施可供出租的單位數。這項行動不影響收入，因為我們在收款前不會認列儲存收入，但它確實影響了我們報告的入住率水準。因此，在同店入住率近5%的下降中，接近4%與移除逾期房間有關。

Net tenant move-ins year over year, so comparing end of December of this year versus last year, are slower than in recent years has picked up compared to where we were last year adjusted for the delinquent units. During the first nine months of fiscal 2026, we invested $770 million in real estate acquisitions along with the development of new self-storage and U-Box warehouse space. That's a $444 million decrease over the first nine months of fiscal 2025.

淨租戶入住（年對年），也就是比較今年12月底與去年12月底，雖然比近年來慢，但在剔除逾期單位影響後，相較於去年我們所處的水準已有所回升。在2026會計年度前九個月，我們在不動產收購以及新自助倉儲與U-Box倉庫空間開發上投資了7.70億美元。這較2025會計年度前九個月減少4.44億美元。

During the third quarter, we added 16 new locations with storage, translates to about 1.5 million new net rentable square feet. Our development pipeline now is down to -- active development is down to 106 projects that should result in somewhere around 5.7 million new net rentable square feet. Moving to storage operating expenses were up $66 million for the third quarter. As a percent of revenue, we certainly took a step back from the progress that we made last quarter.

第三季我們新增16個含儲存業務的新據點，約相當於150萬平方英尺的新增淨可出租面積。我們的開發管線目前下降至——在建開發案降至106個專案，預計可帶來約570萬平方英尺的新增淨可出租面積。接著談到儲存營運費用，第三季增加6,600萬美元。以收入百分比來看，我們確實較上季所取得的進展有所倒退。

First, personnel costs were up $16 million, and fleet maintenance and repair were up $13 million. But really, the unusual increase and the largest component that we had was related to our self-insurance liability costs, and they were up $38 million, with the majority of that being in the form of reserve strengthening. We've made progress on this front, increasing our liability by nearly $79 million since March of 2025.

首先，人事成本增加1,600萬美元，車隊維護與修理增加1,300萬美元。但真正不尋常的增幅、也是最大的一項，與我們的自保責任成本有關，增加3,800萬美元，其中大部分以提高準備金的形式呈現。自2025年3月以來，我們在這方面已有進展，將責任準備增加了近7,900萬美元。

In December, our property and casualty insurance company paid U-Haul Holding Company's parent $100 million dividend as we're taking steps to reallocate capital amongst some of our subsidiaries. This $100 million is now available for general U-Haul corporate use. As of December 2025, cash along with availability from existing loan facilities, at our Moving and Storage segment totaled $1.475 billion. I'd like to remind everyone that we have a supplemental financial information exhibit that's available on our homepage investors.uhaul.com under investor kit.

12月，我們的財產與意外險保險公司向U-Haul Holding Company的母公司支付了1億美元股利，因為我們正採取措施在部分子公司之間重新配置資本。這1億美元目前可供U-Haul公司一般用途使用。截至2025年12月，我們搬家與儲存事業部的現金加上既有貸款額度可用額合計為14.75億美元。提醒各位，我們在首頁investors.uhaul.com的investor kit下提供一份補充財務資訊附表。

With that, I'd like to hand the call back to Jenny as we have Joe, Sam Shoen and myself here to answer questions.

接下來我把電話交回給Jenny，我們這邊有Joe、Sam Shoen以及我本人在場回答問題。

(Operator Instructions) Steven Ralston, Zacks.

(接線員指示) Steven Ralston，Zacks。

Taking into account that seasonally, this is the second weakest quarter in your year. There seem to be some pressures in the one-way market in the self-moving equipment area and also in the U-Box program. Could you discuss that? And also, does that indicate there is some sort of -- that the U-Box market track the one-way market, one-way rental market?

考量到季節性因素，這是你們年度中第二疲弱的季度。在自助搬家設備的一程（one-way）市場以及U-Box方案上，似乎存在一些壓力。能否談談這點？另外，這是否表示U-Box市場會追蹤一程市場、也就是一程租賃市場？

I'll start on that. I mentioned this last conference call, what we've seen over decades is when consumers get anxious, they shorten the distance of a transaction. So instead of moving relocating to Denver, they go to a suburb of their existing town. They still move for a variety of reasons, which is basic underlying demand, but they move shorter distances. And sometimes that turns a one-way transaction into a local transaction.

我先回答。我在上次電話會議提過，我們數十年來觀察到的是，當消費者感到焦慮時，他們會縮短交易距離。因此，他們不再搬遷到丹佛，而是搬到原本城市的郊區。他們仍會因各種原因搬家，這是基本的底層需求，但搬遷距離變短。而有時這會把一程交易變成在地交易。

So there's -- so U-Box, and I'll let Sam elaborate on this. U-Box, we've had our greatest success with long-distance transactions. So to the extent that it tracks U-Haul, it will kind of track it. U-Box will track it but maybe a little more exaggerated as a percentage of business.

所以——U-Box，我讓Sam再補充。U-Box在長距離交易上取得了最大的成功。因此，就它與U-Haul的連動程度而言，它會某種程度上跟著走。U-Box會跟著走，但在業務占比上可能會更為放大。

Right. Yes, Steven, that's a great question. I think this is getting to kind of what you're asking. U-Box operates in almost primarily in what U-Move considers the long zones. So for rental trucks, what might be a 20% of our one-way business in the long zones, for U-Box might be 80%. And so I think the question you asked was does U-Box track the one-way moving market, certainly in that way it does. And then, of course, as we have distribution as we're using rate to control distribution, now we're pricing U-Haul trucks in a certain way and our customers are seeing that and getting to incorporate that into their choice. So I think the short answer to your question is yes.

對。是的，Steven，這個問題問得很好。我想這正切中你在問的重點。U-Box的營運幾乎主要集中在U-Move所稱的長距離區域。以租賃卡車而言，長距離區域可能占我們一程業務的20%，但對U-Box而言可能是80%。所以你問U-Box是否追蹤一程搬家市場，確實在這個面向上它是會的。此外，隨著我們在做配送、並用費率來控制配送，我們現在以某種方式為U-Haul卡車定價，客戶看到了，也會把這點納入他們的選擇考量。所以我對你問題的簡短回答是：是的。

Thank you. You've discussed the depreciation line, a great deal. And I think I'm missing something because I just -- could you please explain it. Depreciation is up dramatically, but sequentially, from the second fiscal quarter to the third fiscal quarter, depreciation actually went down. What's happening on an accounting basis on that?

謝謝。你們談了很多折舊這一行。我想我漏掉了什麼，因為我——能否請你解釋一下。折舊大幅上升，但就序列而言，從第二會計季度到第三會計季度，折舊其實下降了。在會計處理上這是怎麼回事？

So this is Jason. A couple of things going on. First, the depreciation of the box truck fleet is a dynamic depreciation where every time a truck passes its one-year anniversary, the depreciation rate steps down on it. right? So our -- the first year that we buy a box truck, we charge off 16% of the cost. The second year is 13%. And that keeps going down. So if we don't do anything, the depreciation on the box truck fleet will gradually just continue to step down. The second part of that is on our pickup and cargo van fleet, which is a -- it's a smaller fleet --

我是Jason。有幾件事同時在發生。首先，箱型卡車車隊的折舊是動態折舊，也就是每當一輛卡車滿一周年時，折舊率就會往下調一階，對吧？所以我們——買入箱型卡車的第一年，會攤提成本的16%。第二年是13%。之後會持續下降。因此，如果我們什麼都不做，箱型卡車車隊的折舊會逐步、持續地往下調。第二部分是我們的皮卡與貨運廂型車車隊，這是一個——規模較小的車隊--

It's a shorter life asset, right?

它是使用年限較短的資產，對吧？

Yeah, exactly. We hold it a shorter period, and those depreciation rates we're adjusting from quarter to quarter based upon what we see in the resale market. And as we've essentially almost finished selling through the model year '23 units. Now we're onto the '24. And so we're -- that depreciation number is getting adjusted from quarter to quarter.

對，沒錯。我們持有期間較短，而這些折舊率會依據我們在轉售市場看到的情況，按季度進行調整。而隨著我們基本上幾乎已經把23年式的車輛賣完。現在輪到24年式。因此——那個折舊數字會按季度調整。

Steven Ramsey, Thompson Research Group.

Steven Ramsey，Thompson Research Group。

Maybe to start with, what did you think about from the high level for your business? You've continued to invest in growth in all areas of the business in the time of subdued activity. If you think about moving competitors against you in the traditional moving and U-Box space, have you seen capacity reductions from peers or another angle maybe is how you're expanding in the dealer space to position you to perform well now and perform much better on the other side of this?

也許先從宏觀層面來看，您對貴公司業務有什麼看法？在活動相對低迷的期間，您仍持續在業務各個領域投入成長。如果從傳統搬家與 U-Box 業務領域、競爭對手對您採取的動作來看，您是否看到同業在運能上有所縮減？或者換個角度，您在經銷商通路方面是如何擴張，以便讓您現在能有良好表現，並在景氣回升的另一端表現得更好？

I'll answer that. Yes, on both moving fleet and locations. The numbers aren't hard. I can't give you a hard number of, let's say, how many outlets Penske or Budget has. But we have a bunch of other indicators we get from various industry sources that causes us to be fairly confident they're both reducing fleet and reducing outlets.

我來回答。是的，無論是搬家車隊或據點都是如此。這些數字並不難理解。我無法給你一個確切數字，例如 Penske 或 Budget 有多少個據點。但我們從各種產業來源取得許多其他指標，使我們相當有信心，他們兩家都在縮減車隊規模並減少據點。

So that should we see an upturn or should we get a -- another way to put it, should we do a better job of understanding and satisfying customer needs, we'll be in a position to fill that demand. And that's the way I look at it a lot more in where we failed to appreciate what our customer needs. And if we will find that failure and remedy it, the customer will reward us with more transactions, and we'll be in a better position. We'll have more outlets and convenience is part of our overall strategy. So we're far and away. Just for talking points, let's say, Budget has 3,000 outlets and Penske has 3,500, but we're sitting with 24,000 and change. So as far as customer accessibility, we just -- we dominate. And that's part of our strategy. It's a judgment how far to push that.

因此，一旦我們看到景氣回升，或者換句話說，一旦我們更能理解並滿足客戶需求，我們就能處於可承接該需求的位置。而我更多是從我們過去未能充分理解客戶需求的角度來看這件事。如果我們找出這個不足並加以補救，客戶會以更多交易來回報我們，我們的處境也會更好。我們會有更多據點，而便利性是我們整體策略的一部分。所以我們遠遠領先。僅作為討論用的數字，假設 Budget 有 3,000 個據點、Penske 有 3,500 個，但我們大約有 24,000 多個。因此就客戶可及性而言，我們——我們是主導者。這也是我們策略的一部分。至於要把這件事推到多遠，則是一種判斷。

Frankly, it's not an algorithm. Maybe there is, but it isn't one that we have a math problem that solves that algorithm. So one other thing that you don't see and Jason, I don't think he really talked about is, inside our fleet isn't homogenous. It isn't one number. So when he says we have 100x box trucks, the size of those and the age matters when you're trying to manage the whole fleet. So we have been playing catch-up to massive disruptions in the supply chain caused by both COVID and the government's insistence on electrification.

坦白說，這不是一個演算法。也許有，但我們並沒有一個用數學題就能解出的演算法。另外一件你看不到、而且 Jason 我想也沒有真正談到的是，我們的車隊內部並非同質。它不是單一數字。所以當他說我們有 100x 輛箱型卡車時，車輛的尺寸與車齡在你試圖管理整體車隊時都很重要。因此，我們一直在追趕由 COVID 與政府堅持推動電動化所造成的供應鏈重大擾動。

Curing those takes a while. You can cure it in the pickup and van fleet maybe in 24 months because you rotate that fleet. In our box truck fleet, it's at least an eight-year opportunity. So sometimes we're buying a little more trucks than we need because we need a certain size truck or that truck is now available and it wasn't available before. So there's a bunch of adjustments inside of the big number. And if you went back to, let's say, 2016, we had it at that point, the best I've ever had in my life. We had tuned that pretty good. And that falls through as profitability. So as we get this fleet rebalanced, and I wish I can tell you a date, I wish -- I'm trying to get my own self a date as to when that will be back in balance. I don't know. We've had -- you've heard me bellyache about the administration and the drive towards electrification.

要修復這些問題需要時間。在皮卡與廂型車車隊上，你也許 24 個月內就能修復，因為那個車隊周轉較快。但在我們的箱型卡車車隊上，至少是一個八年的調整機會。所以有時我們會買比需求稍多一點的卡車，因為我們需要某種尺寸的車，或是那款車現在才有貨、以前沒有。因此，在那個大數字之內有很多調整。如果你回到例如 2016 年，那時我們的狀態——是我這輩子見過最好的。我們把它調得相當到位。而那會反映在獲利能力上。所以當我們把車隊重新平衡後——我希望我能告訴你一個日期，我也希望——我正在試著替自己找出何時能回到平衡的時間點。我不知道。我們一直——你也聽過我抱怨政府與推動電動化的方向。

You see that really caused the manufacturers to do two things. One, they increased the price massively I'm talking 30% and 50% price increases; and two, they allocated vehicles. We couldn't get the model we want and the quantity we want. We had to take what their supply chain was able to produce. And this caused disruption in the age and size of our trucks, and we're working very hard to remedy that. And you see this year, the year we're just kind of finishing, we bought very arguably, a little more vehicles than is reasonable. But if you get into the details, you would see we're attempting to get this balance back out. So two, three and four years from now, it's the right mix in the age of vehicles to serve the market.

你會看到，這確實讓製造商做了兩件事。第一，他們大幅提高價格——我指的是 30% 到 50% 的漲價；第二，他們對車輛進行配額分配。我們拿不到我們想要的車型與我們想要的數量。我們只能接受他們的供應鏈所能生產的東西。這造成我們卡車的車齡與尺寸結構出現擾動，而我們正非常努力地修復。而你會看到今年——也就是我們剛要結束的這一年——我們買了可以說略多於合理的車輛。但如果你深入細節，你會看到我們是在嘗試把這個平衡拉回來。因此在兩、三、四年後，車齡結構會是服務市場所需的正確組合。

So we're very aware of it. But it's all judgment. It's not absolutely guarantee. I think that I've been elated because the administration has done everything I could imagine it to kibosh on the electrification. So you and -- I'm sure all your peers have seen what -- our good friends in the manufacturing business, Mary Barra announced, I think, $6 billion or $5 billion write-off. Jim Farley announced $19.5 billion write-off. Well, that gives you some idea of the disruption at their level, and that disruption is like a ripple of a pond that carries through to people like me or to car dealers, if you have any car dealer clients, you'll see that they're not getting the exact mix of vehicles that they wish they had. But this will balance out.

所以我們非常清楚這件事。但這全都是判斷。並非絕對保證。我想我之所以感到欣慰，是因為政府做了我能想像到的一切，來阻止電動化。所以你——我相信你所有同業也都看到了——我們在製造業的好朋友那邊發生了什麼；Mary Barra 宣布了我記得是 60 億或 50 億美元的減記。Jim Farley 宣布了 195 億美元的減記。這讓你大概了解他們那一層的擾動程度，而那種擾動就像池塘的漣漪一樣，會一路傳導到像我這樣的人，或傳到汽車經銷商；如果你有任何汽車經銷商客戶，你會看到他們拿不到他們希望擁有的精確車款組合。但這終究會回到平衡。

The carmakers are smart people. And once they shed themselves of this electrification, I don't know what it is this for you. I'm not sure the right name for it. But as they get out of that, they're going to deliver the mix of vehicles that customers want, and customers will respond. So if that addresses your question, it may be too much information. I don't know.

汽車製造商都是聰明人。而一旦他們擺脫這個電動化——我不知道你那邊怎麼稱呼它。我不確定它正確的名稱是什麼。但當他們退出那個方向後，他們就會交付客戶想要的車款組合，而客戶也會做出回應。所以如果這回答了你的問題，可能資訊有點多。我不確定。

No, that's helpful perspective. I appreciate that. I wanted to think about the expense management side of things? I know it's been a focus for you. Do you think this needs to be a more intensified effort over the next 6 to 12 months? Or would you say the structure is actually in a good place, but it's more waiting on volume to come back?

不，這個觀點很有幫助。謝謝你。我想談談費用管理這一塊？我知道這一直是你關注的重點。你認為未來 6 到 12 個月需要更強化這方面的努力嗎？或者你會說目前的成本結構其實已在不錯的位置，只是要等待量能回來？

I've been pounding through on -- we run on the system of budgets like a lot of people. So I've been pounding through budgets trying to get the correct response out of the various parts of the corporation. And I think I'll see some results in the present calendar year and a little bit more the next year. Repair hasn't been too bad. It's a lot of money somewhere is approaching $800 million on an annual basis. But is coming in somewhere in a normative -- we calculate all repair by model, by year, by cents per mile. We have a pretty good ability to forecast that. So repair, we've got half way under control.

我一直在——我們像很多人一樣，是用預算制度在運作。所以我一直在推動預算，試圖讓公司各部門做出正確的回應。我認為在本曆年會看到一些成果，明年會再多一些。維修方面還不算太糟。這是一大筆錢，年化金額接近 8 億美元。但目前落在某種常態區間——我們按車型、按年份、按每英里成本來計算所有維修。我們有相當不錯的預測能力。所以維修這塊，我們已經控制住一半了。

Personnel is kind of -- we're stuck in a vice on that. I think many, many people or organizations are, which is cost of living for our workforce is rising at a pretty good clip, and they're pretty hard pitched. So we're going to see that increase steadily over the next two or three years, I think, for sure. And our job is to outpace that, and when I look at that, we look at that on a location-by-location basis.

人事方面有點——我們在這上面像被夾在虎鉗裡。我想很多很多人或組織都是如此：我們員工的生活成本正在以相當快的速度上升，而且他們的要求也很強硬。所以我認為未來兩到三年，這項成本肯定會持續穩定上升。而我們的工作就是要跑贏它；而在看這件事時，我們是以據點逐一檢視。

Basically, we need to get a nexus of revenue enough that will support the complement of people to be open the hours we want to be open. We may likely have to adjust some hours over the coming 12 months because the -- it's not going to generate enough surplus to pay the wages for the hours the store is presently open in my judgment. Now that's not done, but that's the kind of pressure we're under. And it's on -- it gets to a totally micro analysis you can say overall blah blah blah, but every morning, we open about 2,400 stores. So I got to have a body there. It's very specific.

基本上，我們需要建立一個足夠的營收連結點，才能支撐我們在希望營業的時段內配置所需的人力。依我判斷，未來12個月我們很可能必須調整部分營業時數，因為——它不太可能產生足夠的盈餘來支付門市目前營業時段所需的薪資。現在這還沒定案，但這就是我們所承受的壓力。而且這——這會落到非常微觀的分析；你可以說整體怎樣怎樣，但每天早上我們要開大約2,400家門市。所以我得要有人在那裡。這非常具體。

And then some days in the week, I got to have several bodies there. So and those people have to be paid a living wage. So there's going to be tension there. I think -- I don't know what part of the country you're from, but this year, the West Coast of the United States, let's say California, Oregon or Washington have put in greatly increased minimum wages have processed, or have in place plans that will automatically do it next year. And in many jurisdictions, they've done this for both salaried and hourly. Most of us are used to a minimum wage per hourly personnel. But they're not putting in minimum wages for salaried personnel. And it's going to stress a significant number of our stores' profitability.

然後一週中的某些日子，我得要好幾個人在那裡。而且這些人必須領到足以維生的工資。所以那裡會有拉扯。我想——我不知道你來自美國哪個地區，但今年美國西岸，比如加州、奧勒岡或華盛頓，已經推動大幅提高最低工資的措施，或已制定明年會自動調升的計畫。而且在許多司法管轄區，他們對於受薪與計時人員都這麼做。我們大多習慣最低工資是針對計時人員。但他們現在也在對受薪人員設定最低薪資。這將對我們相當多門市的獲利能力造成壓力。

So of course, we're going to pay the people, but we have to boost productivity. Both self-storage and U-Box have been a relief valve for that in many instances. We've been able to expand that presence in the location, but other locations are limited by the geographic footprint. There's only so much you can do on that piece of land. So let's say in Los Angeles, we have several locations that are just slightly over half an acre. There's no wiggle there. So those are under intense pressure. And I don't have a simple solution to it, but we're very cognizant of it. We're working on it.

所以當然，我們會付薪給員工，但我們必須提升生產力。在很多情況下，自助倉儲和U-Box一直是緩衝閥。我們能在據點擴大這方面的布局，但其他據點會受限於地理占地範圍。在那塊土地上你能做的就那麼多。比如在洛杉磯，我們有幾個據點的面積只有略高於半英畝。那裡沒有任何迴旋空間。所以那些據點承受極大壓力。我沒有一個簡單的解法，但我們非常清楚這件事。我們正在處理。

Okay. That's helpful. And then last one for me. You've talked some about U-Box in the major markets that you are building out. Can you clarify if construction is going on in those markets for warehouse capacity? And then secondly, can you talk about U-Box usage both Moving and Storage in large metros that you already have established warehouse presence. Trying to think about the potential upside in the big cities once it's built out.

好的。這很有幫助。然後我最後一個問題。你談到一些你們正在建置的主要市場中的U-Box。你能否釐清在那些市場是否正在進行倉庫產能的施工建設？其次，你能談談在你們已經建立倉庫據點的大型都會區，U-Box在搬家與倉儲兩方面的使用情況嗎？我想了解一旦建置完成後，在大城市可能的上行空間。

I'll take the brunt of that question and let Sam take the back of it. In the cities I mentioned, the metropolitan areas I mentioned, at the minimum, we own property. We're somewhere between land use and putting the roof on it at these locations. These are all -- to me, each one is a big saga, okay. So I know too much information on it. We'll pick DC. We've had the steel building on the ground for two years. That's how between COVID and normal city bureaucracies, how much it set us back.

我先主要回答這個問題，後半段讓Sam補充。在我提到的城市、我提到的大都會區，至少我們擁有土地。在這些據點，我們的進度介於土地使用（審批）到把屋頂蓋上之間。這些——對我來說，每一個都是一段大長篇故事，好嗎。所以我知道的細節太多了。我們就拿華府（DC）來說。我們的鋼構建築材料已經放在地上兩年了。這就是COVID加上一般城市官僚程序，讓我們延宕了多少。

We thought two years ago, we were going to break ground. We ordered the building, they delivered it. We still haven't broke ground. So it's not because we're not trying. It's just -- it's quite elaborate. But in all those cities, we own the property or metro areas, in all those metro areas, we own the property.

兩年前我們以為就要動工。我們訂了建築物，他們也交貨了。但我們到現在還沒破土動工。所以不是我們不努力。只是——事情相當繁複。但在所有那些城市，我們都擁有該物業；或說在所有那些都會區，我們都擁有土地。

I'd say, I'll pick Vancouver Island. That's a readily apparent thing. If we don't have a significant warehouse capacity, there's just going to be no U-Box business at all. So we have to have real warehouse capacity there. So -- but in the rest of Canada, we've done a great job for the Maritimes, up and through Ottawa, down to Montreal, all through the Greater Ontario or the whole belt people between Toronto and Detroit, we've got a fairly adequate footprint. And so I believe the business will follow. Sam?

我舉溫哥華島為例。那是很明顯的案例。如果我們沒有足夠的倉庫容量，就根本不會有任何U-Box業務。所以我們必須在那裡具備真正的倉庫容量。不過——在加拿大其他地區，我們在大西洋省份一路到渥太華、再往下到蒙特婁，以及整個大安大略地區、或說多倫多到底特律之間那條走廊，我們已經建立了相當足夠的據點版圖。所以我相信業務會隨之而來。Sam？

Sure. I'll add some more color. Metros for U-Box is something we're certainly maybe a little extra excited about because Joe had the foresight to design our product and our strategy specifically around the size of container that thrives in the metro areas with challenges of space. So for example, our container size unlike a lot of our competitors fits in an apartment parking spot, no problem. A lot of the challenging metro areas are restrictions on where they can be laid in terms of needing permits or having outright restrictions to be placed on the street.

當然。我再補充一些細節。U-Box在都會區是我們確實特別興奮的領域之一，因為Joe很有遠見，特別針對都會區空間受限的挑戰，設計了我們的產品與策略，尤其是貨櫃尺寸。例如，我們的貨櫃尺寸不同於許多競爭對手，放進公寓停車位完全沒問題。許多具挑戰性的都會區，對於放置位置有各種限制，例如需要許可證，或甚至明文禁止放在街道上。

Our container option delivery method with the trailer gives it a license plate, which means it can go in anywhere that's a legal parking spot. So those are tremendous differentiators in our product versus the competition, and those were deliberate. And of course, we're hoping they drive some -- continue to drive some exciting results in the metro besides the fact that a lot of these -- the metro demand is for a smaller-sized container in the first place. So getting the right-sized product to those customers is what we do. So I think we've got a big advantage.

我們的貨櫃配送方式是用拖車運送，拖車有車牌，這表示它可以停在任何合法的停車位。因此，相較於競爭對手，這些都是我們產品非常巨大的差異化優勢，而且是刻意設計出來的。當然，我們也希望這些優勢能在都會區帶動一些——並持續帶動一些令人振奮的成果；此外，很多——都會區的需求本來就偏好較小尺寸的貨櫃。把合適尺寸的產品提供給這些客戶，就是我們在做的事。所以我認為我們有很大的優勢。

Steven, this is Jason. I just want to make sure that there isn't any misunderstanding. In these markets, our customers already have access to the U-Box product. We're just looking to improve their access to it. It's not that we aren't in those markets.

Steven，我是Jason。我只是想確認沒有任何誤解。在這些市場，我們的客戶已經可以使用U-Box產品。我們只是希望改善他們取得與使用的便利性。並不是說我們不在那些市場。

Jeff Kauffman, Vertical Research Partners.

Jeff Kauffman，Vertical Research Partners。

I just had a question more for Jason. You talked about we're almost through the 2023 cargo van cohort and starting to work on the '24s. Can you give us an idea of how many vehicles we have left to get caught up to the current market and maybe the differential between your average acquisition costs and where you're depreciating the '24s versus what that spread looks like for the '23s.

我有一個問題主要想問Jason。你提到我們幾乎已經處理完2023年那批貨車（cargo van）車隊，並開始著手處理'24年款。你能否讓我們了解一下，距離追上目前市場水準，我們還剩下多少車輛需要補齊？以及你們平均採購成本與你們對'24年款提列折舊的水準之間的差異——相較之下，'23年款的價差大概是什麼樣子。

Sure. I'll give you some big picture numbers. On the '24s, we probably have somewhere around 6,000 of those left, and those were the most expensive ones, a little bit more pricey than the '23s. And then we have, say, close to 19,000 of the model year '25s that then were maybe $3,000 cheaper than the '24s. So now we're going to be in the process of rotating out the model year '24s, which we have been -- we've been hitting those with this increased depreciation. So part of -- answered the question earlier, I think it was for Steve Ralston, that's been part of the depreciation increases. We've been hitting those modeling years here before we have to sell them, hoping to minimize any loss on disposal. And we'll see how successful we are here in the next 12 months on that.

當然。我先給一些整體數字。就'24年款而言，我們大概還剩下約6,000輛，那批是最貴的，價格比'23年款高一些。然後我們還有大約接近19,000輛的'25年款，而那批可能比'24年款便宜約3,000美元。所以接下來我們會進入汰換'24年款的流程；我們一直——一直對那些車款提列較高的折舊。所以——我先前回答某個問題時（我想是回覆Steve Ralston），那也是折舊增加的一部分原因。我們在必須出售之前就先對這些車款加速提列折舊，希望把處分時的任何損失降到最低。接下來12個月我們會看看成效如何。

Okay. But is your sense that -- because, look, it's going to come out either way, right, either through depreciation or loss on sale. But is your sense, we've got the '24 model years mark-to-market fairly at this point in time? Or is there still going to be this deferred catch-up on loss on sale?

好的。但你的看法是——因為你看，無論如何都會反映出來，對吧，不是透過折舊，就是透過出售損失。但你的感覺是，我們目前對於 2024 年式車款的按市價評價（mark-to-market）已經相當公允了嗎？還是說，之後出售損失仍會有這種遞延的追補（catch-up）？

I think it would be fair to expect a loss on sale for those units. I don't know if we're fully there yet.

我認為合理的預期是，那些車輛會有出售損失。我不確定我們是否已經完全到位。

Let me address it. It's -- you make your estimate of what you're going to get on sale when you're going in, you set up your books. We've had to come back with adjustments because the way the market has developed that estimate turned out to be wrong. And as far as I can tell, it's wrong because as the automakers get away from electrification and get their supply chains reorganized, they're now, in fact, selling new vehicles for less than last year's new vehicle and maintaining a margin.

我來回應一下。這是——你在進場時會估算你出售時能拿到多少，然後據此入帳。我們不得不回頭做調整，因為市場的發展使得那個估算被證明是錯的。就我所見，之所以錯，是因為當車廠逐漸遠離電動化、並重整供應鏈後，他們現在其實以低於去年新車的價格在賣新車，同時仍維持利潤率。

They need to make a profit. I'm all for it. But that takes the resale value and gives it a little bit more of a hit. And we haven't in recent years, at least not in the last 15 years, had a market where the new prices kept being under the old price. And so I think we poorly estimated this, and of course, we figured this out, I don't know, 1 year, 1.5 years ago, when we start to act on it, and everybody was confident going into this particular year we're in that we're finally through it. And then, of course, what happened, another round of opportunistic.

他們需要獲利。我完全支持。但這會讓轉售價值再多受一點打擊。而且我們近年來——至少過去 15 年——從未遇過新車價格持續低於舊款價格的市場。所以我認為我們對此估得不好；當然，我們大概在 1 年到 1.5 年前就發現了，開始採取行動，而大家在進入我們現在這個年度時都很有信心，覺得終於熬過去了。結果當然又發生了新一輪的投機性行為。

So we're acquiring the fleet cheaper, but that may mean that these trucks that we just put in are going to retail for less or wholesale when we get rid of them for less than we thought. So we're -- I've got people here pretty tuned up. And I think we will try to -- if we see it declining what my direction has been, try to adjust depreciation to where you're going to basically be neutral at sale because the problem with the sale is that by the time you get it, you forgot how much you paid for it and all that. So we should suffer the pain monthly, and that also puts pressure on my marketing people because they basically incur that depreciation cost as part of their charge or whatever you want to call it that, as part of what they know they have to hit, it's harder for them to -- for me to hold them accountable for recouping a loss on sale, but they really didn't have a budget or a forecast that adequately presented that.

所以我們用更便宜的價格購置車隊，但這可能意味著我們剛投入的這些卡車，未來零售或在我們處分時的批發價格，會比我們原先想的更低。所以我們——我這邊的人都很警覺、也很到位。我想我們會嘗試——如果看到價格在下滑，我的指示一直是，嘗試調整折舊，讓你基本上在出售時能打平，因為出售的問題在於，等到你真的賣掉時，你早就忘了當初買入成本是多少等等。所以我們應該每個月就承受這個痛苦；這也會對我的行銷團隊形成壓力，因為他們基本上會把那個折舊成本視為他們費用的一部分——不管你怎麼稱呼——作為他們知道必須達成的目標的一部分；相較之下，要我要求他們對彌補出售損失負責就更難，因為他們其實沒有一個能充分呈現該情況的預算或預測。

So I'm very hopeful we're going to get it right, but you've seen how just this whole thing has just ricocheted through and it's given everybody some things they didn't really totally appreciate, and I'm kind of a glass half empty person, and I've kind of pushed our people. Of course, they're all marketing and now we're going to sell our way out of it. Well, I think it's pretty clear when the pickup or van prices declined two years in a row, you're not going to sell your way out of it. You're just going to respond to the market.

所以我非常希望我們能把它做對，但你也看到整件事如何一路反彈、擴散，讓每個人都遇到一些他們並未完全理解的狀況；而我算是比較悲觀的人，我也一直在推著我們的人往前。當然，他們都是做行銷的，現在就說我們會靠賣出去把問題解決。但我覺得很清楚，當皮卡或廂型車價格連續兩年下跌時，你不可能靠「賣出去」來脫困。你只能回應市場。

So I think it's a collaborative effort to guess -- make these estimates. I won't call them guesses, but they're kind of a guess. But your estimate of what that thing is going to go out for 18 months from now is an estimate. Of course, there's other industry people making this estimate. We're not the only people trying to figure this out.

所以我認為這是一個協作的工作來推估——做出這些估算。我不會稱它們為猜測，但某種程度上確實像猜。但你對 18 個月後那個東西能賣多少的估算，就是一個估算。當然，還有其他同業也在做這種估算。不是只有我們在試著搞清楚這件事。

So I have some belief that we may now hit the bottom of this whole declining group of factors coming together. But should next year, GMC lower prices again. Because they improve their margins and they've written off all the garbage. They have the same problem. They had some garbage on the books because they were attempting to respond to government. And I don't want to call it third-party greeny pressure. People who didn't know what the facts were but nevertheless had power positions. They tried to respond to them has really cost them greatly.

所以我有一些信心，認為我們現在可能會觸底，因為這一整組下行因素正在一起收斂。但如果明年 GMC 又再降價呢？因為他們改善了利潤率，也把所有那些爛帳都沖掉了。他們也有同樣的問題。他們帳上有一些爛東西，因為他們試圖回應政府。我不想把它稱為第三方的綠色壓力。有些人不了解事實，但仍然握有權力位置。他們試著回應那些人，結果讓他們付出很大的代價。

It hasn't hit us as hard, but it's costing us, and we will work through it, and every effort is being made to keep the fleet. I've always prided myself over the last 40 years, of always having the fleet on the books for less than it's worth. Because when push comes to shove, if you're on the books for more than it's worth, it can be a very unpleasant time. So I've pushed real hard and we've missed it two years in a row on our pickup and van fleet. And we should have it right this time, but only time is going to tell. It's important. We're trying to undershoot without just being stupid.

這對我們的衝擊沒那麼大，但確實在讓我們付出成本；我們會把它處理過去，而且我們正盡一切努力維持車隊。過去 40 年我一直引以為傲的是，車隊在帳上的價值永遠低於它的實際價值。因為一旦情勢緊迫，如果帳面價值高於實際價值，那會是一段非常難受的時期。所以我一直很用力推，但我們的皮卡與廂型車車隊已經連續兩年沒抓準。這次我們應該能做對，但只有時間能證明。這很重要。我們試著保守一些（undershoot），但又不至於愚蠢。

If I put too much depreciation on, of course, my rental teams will say we can't possibly make we can't make any of our goals. It's impossible that you've afflicted us with. So I have to not try to be not too low or too high. So -- but on the other hand, I'll say that the whole company has overestimated resales for two years running. Yes, it all comes out in the wash. But during the interim period, it can affect people's motivations and I need to do that.

如果我提列太多折舊，當然，我的租賃團隊會說我們根本不可能達成任何目標。你這樣加諸在我們身上的要求是不可能的。所以我必須避免太低或太高。不過——另一方面，我會說整個公司已經連續兩年高估轉售價值。是的，最後都會反映在結果裡。但在過渡期間，它會影響人們的動機，而我需要處理這點。

Jamie Wilen, Wilen Management.

Jamie Wilen，Wilen Management。

Joe, you've always mentioned that fleet utilization was your prime objective in managing the business. How did you arrive at only reducing the fleet expenditures in the coming year by $0.5 billion and as you look forward, are you going to spend $0.5 billion less in future years as well?

Joe，你一直提到車隊使用率是你管理這門生意的首要目標。你是如何決定在來年只把車隊支出減少 5 億美元？另外往前看，未來年度你也會同樣少花 5 億美元嗎？

Right. Now I'll start with the year, we're finishing up. So we call that fiscal '26, I believe. In fiscal '26, you're actually seeing an increased -- significantly increased fleet expense. That is aimed at trying to rebalance. If you don't buy some trucks, well, four years from now, you don't have those trucks at that mileage and that cost parameter. And so you create imbalances to the whole fleet. And that also impacts on what can you buy next? So in the year just finished, we put in something like 10,000 10-foot trucks.

對。我先從我們剛結束的年度說起。我們把那稱為 2026 會計年度（fiscal '26），我想是這樣。在 2026 會計年度，你其實看到的是車隊費用增加——而且是顯著增加。那是為了嘗試重新平衡。如果你不買一些卡車，那麼四年後，你就沒有那些在那個里程與成本參數下的卡車。於是你會讓整個車隊出現失衡。而這也會影響你接下來能買什麼。所以在剛結束的年度，我們投入了大概 10,000 輛 10 呎卡車。

That's beyond replacement considerably. We have a whole bunch of considerations. And that truck, in our present plan for the coming year, we reduced that massively because we think we know what we're doing there. In my 20-foot truck, I have a disproportionate amount of fleet that's 8 or 10 years old. So while my total number is okay, my mix is off as 10-year-old truck can't perform quite like a 5-year-old truck or a 4-year-old truck. So I'm buying a fair amount of those a little bit more than you might say is replacement simply because I have a lump of them that are 8 or 10 years old, and I've got to try to smooth that out.

那遠遠超過單純汰換的需求。我們有一整套考量。而在我們目前對來年的規劃中，我們大幅降低了那款車的採購，因為我們認為那一塊我們知道自己在做什麼。至於我的 20 呎卡車，我有不成比例的一部分車隊已經 8 年或 10 年車齡。所以雖然我的總量沒問題，但結構（mix）不對：10 年車齡的卡車表現不可能像 5 年車齡或 4 年車齡的卡車那樣。所以我會買相當數量的那種車，會比你所謂的汰換量多一些，純粹因為我有一大批 8 到 10 年車齡的車，我必須把它平滑化。

The perfect life would be figure the life of the truck, divide that in the fleet, make that fleet purchase every year. That would be wonderful. But they just don't become available. And in the past five years, it's been aggravated because of all these supply chain disruptions. The worst being we're on allocation. They would say, you can buy X trucks that -- we haven't seen that since the Korean war. So that caught us off balance, I would say, and resulted in a couple of times, we made huge buys because they would sell them to us. We had to have something, so we made a huge buy.

最理想的情況是把卡車的使用年限算清楚，分攤到整個車隊，讓車隊每年都能按計畫採購。那會很棒。但它們就是不會那麼剛好有貨。而且在過去五年，因為各種供應鏈中斷，情況更嚴重。最糟的是我們被配額限制。他們會說，你只能買 X 輛卡車——我們自韓戰以來就沒見過這種情況。所以我會說，這讓我們措手不及，結果有幾次因為他們願意賣給我們，我們就做了大筆採購。我們得要有車可用，所以就買了一大批。

So we're going to -- we're going to reduce this, and then we have to see what we can do with sales because that problem, it's a buying problem. It's also a selling problem. Can you take that many trucks into the sale market and can you move them. So we'll see in case of my 20-foot trucks, I have something like 12,000 lump going through it. And we can't digest 12,000 of those at resale in one year and probably couldn't do it less than three years.

所以我們要——我們要把這個規模降下來，然後我們也得看看在銷售端能做些什麼，因為那個問題是採購問題。同時也是銷售問題。你能不能把那麼多卡車投入二手銷售市場，並且把它們賣得動。所以我們會觀察；以我的 20 呎卡車來說，大概有 12,000 輛的「一大波」要流過來。而我們不可能在一年內在轉售市場消化 12,000 輛，可能三年內都未必做得到。

So depending on how -- but if I don't buy for three years, I'm just creating another lump that I'll have to face down the road. So I'm going to do some modest buys that may accelerate sales and see where that -- where we can find the balance. And so we're probing that, I'll say, specifically on the 20-foot truck right now. How much can we -- how many of those trucks can we put into the resale market successfully, and we should buy at least that many of them this year so that we don't have another month in our supply chain.

所以要看——但如果我三年都不買，我只是又製造出另一波，將來還是得面對。所以我會做一些適度的採購，可能也會加快銷售，看看——看看我們能在哪裡找到平衡。所以我們正在試探，我會說，現在特別是在 20 呎卡車上。我們能——我們能成功地把多少這類卡車投入轉售市場；而今年至少應該買進同樣數量，這樣我們的供應鏈就不會再出現另一個「波峰」。

On the self --

在自助--

Go ahead, I'm sorry.

你先說，不好意思。

I'd say on the self-storage side, as far as capacity utilization there, is there any thought of slowing the pace of development to a more modest level?

我想問自助倉儲那邊，就產能利用率而言，有沒有考慮把開發速度放慢到更溫和的水準？

It slowed a lot. I think Jason thinks it's down $400 million. It's not a -- these numbers are a little bit soft. But we've slowed it down. A ground-up self-storage location is probably a three-year process. So if I slow it down, you won't totally see it until three years from now. Now the other problem is if we want to speed it up, you won't see it for three years. So you got to be a little thoughtful going both ways. So we have slowed it down. I'm still going ahead with what I consider to be strategic. So the U-Box warehouse as I mentioned, I believe they're strategic, and we would be foolish not to build them.

已經放慢很多了。我想 Jason 認為少了 4 億美元。這不是——這些數字有點不那麼精確。但我們確實放慢了。從零開始新建一個自助倉儲據點，大概是三年的流程。所以如果我放慢，你不會完全看到效果，直到三年後。反過來，如果我們想加快，你也要三年後才看得到。所以兩個方向都得稍微審慎。因此我們已經放慢了。我仍會推進我認為具有策略性的項目。所以像我提到的 U-Box 倉庫，我相信它們是策略性的，我們不蓋才是愚蠢。

Although -- so the -- it's going to be a significant amount of money, enough money that I'm watching it. For self-storage, we're a little more opportunistic as we're going ahead now. We either think it's a market that we know better than somebody else when we see an opportunity, or it's something that's semi-distressed. We just bought location in Olive Branch, Mississippi. It doesn't mean much to you, but we already had a store there. We bought a second store. We paid well less than three-fourths of the cost of construction for it. And I think Olive Branch, Mississippi is going to be fine over the next 10 years, although it's probably not on your horizon. But it's a good solid growing area. I determined that was opportunistic and we go ahead with it.

不過——所以——這會是一筆可觀的資金，大到我會盯著看。至於自助倉儲，我們目前推進得比較偏機會型。要嘛是我們看到機會時，認為這個市場我們比別人更懂；要嘛是某種半困境資產。我們剛在密西西比州的 Olive Branch 買了一個據點。這對你可能沒什麼意義，但我們在那裡本來就有一家店。我們又買了第二家。我們支付的價格遠低於其重建成本的四分之三。而我認為密西西比州 Olive Branch 在未來 10 年會表現不錯，雖然它可能不在你的關注範圍內。但那是一個穩健成長的區域。我判斷這是個機會型交易，所以就做了。

Okay. You guys have done an excellent job of building value, but less than a stellar job of creating value for shareholders. If I were a Board -- pardon me?

好的。你們在打造資產價值方面做得非常出色，但在為股東創造價值方面就沒那麼亮眼。如果我是董事會——不好意思？

I'm with you on that.

我同意你的看法。

Okay. If I were a Board member, here's what I would suggest to you to help crystallize a bit more of that value. We all know how undervalued self-storage is relative to the rest of the world. And we'd like to help the investment community as well as analysts recognize a bit of that. What I would suggest us doing is selling a territory of well-occupied facilities that don't have U-Box storage in there because I don't want to eliminate the competitive advantage we have with the rest of the world in U-Box.

好。如果我是董事會成員，我會建議你們這麼做，來更清楚地把那部分價值「結晶化」出來。我們都知道，自助倉儲相對於世界其他地方是被低估的。而我們也希望協助投資社群以及分析師更能認知到其中一部分。我建議我們賣出一個區域內入住率很高、且沒有 U-Box 倉儲的設施組合，因為我不想把我們在 U-Box 相對於其他人的競爭優勢給削弱。

But I would take an area where we have stabilized occupancies over 80% like a Tennessee or New Jersey and hopefully, no U-Box storage or not much. And I would want to sell that to one of the publicly held REITs, which could crystallize value for how much we have value if we have created there and recycle the proceeds. If we get $1 billion or $2 billion, use half of them to buy back stock, the rest to pay down debt. We'll build new facilities. But it would help crystallize what we built and hopefully not impact the growth of the core business there. What do you think of that?

但我會挑一個我們入住率已穩定在 80% 以上的區域，例如田納西或新澤西，而且希望沒有 U-Box 倉儲或只有很少。然後我會想把它賣給某一家上市的 REIT，這樣可以把我們在那裡創造的價值用交易價格「結晶化」出來，並把所得資金再循環運用。如果我們拿到 10 億或 20 億美元，就用一半回購股票，其餘用來償還債務。我們會再蓋新的設施。但這能幫助把我們已經打造的價值具體呈現出來，同時希望不會影響那裡核心業務的成長。你怎麼看？

I kind of understand the math of it. I won't say I am hot on the proposal. Of course, part of the opportunity is every one of those I work to get. And so I'm a little bit wary of selling it. And should the market turn up, we may rue the day we sold it. But I think that's a fair position to explore. I'll explore it a little bit with Jason. He's pretty good on the numbers. So we'll explore that a little bit.

我大概理解這裡面的數學。我不會說我很熱衷這個提案。當然，機會的一部分在於那些都是我努力才拿到的。所以我對賣掉它有點戒心。而且如果市場轉好，我們可能會後悔當初賣掉。但我認為這是個值得探討的立場。我會跟 Jason 再多探討一下。他在數字方面很在行。所以我們會再研究一下。

The stock buyback, I kind of go both ways on also. I'm not -- we went and did the stock dividend and a bunch of other stuff, tried to bring some analysts in, changed the exchange, we were going all in an effort to, I guess, improve liquidity or make the stock more interesting to people with, I think, very minimal results, okay? I don't think anybody at my end is a stock guru.

至於股票回購，我也有點兩邊都能理解。我不是——我們做過股票股利以及一堆其他事情，試著引進一些分析師、換了交易所；我們幾乎是全力以赴，想要——我想是改善流動性或讓股票對大家更有吸引力，但我覺得成效非常有限，好嗎？我不認為我們這邊有人是股票方面的高手。

We don't -- that's just not where we all live. I was underwhelmed with the response of the market when we did that. But these are -- we have to do something to demonstrate value. Another way to demonstrate value is put these stores at 90% occupancy, then, of course, now it's a little bit easier. I'm sitting here with -- depending on how you want to count it, somewhere around 80% effective occupancy.

我們不——那不是我們所有人日常關注的領域。我們做了那些之後，市場的反應讓我有點失望。但這些——我們必須做點什麼來展現價值。另一種展現價值的方法，是把這些店的入住率做到 90%，那當然就比較容易。我現在這裡——看你怎麼計算——有效入住率大概在 80% 左右。

Now it varies by every store, but that's overall not a bad estimate. And that's been dragged down by -- every time I open a new store, I lower that number. So I believe that the market is significantly larger, but it's being say, mistreated. The customers are being mistreated by the industry now, and I'm going to try to see if I can communicate that to the customer that we're not the ones mistreating it.

當然每家店都不一樣，但整體來看，這樣的估計不算差。而這個數字會被拉低，是因為——每當我開一家新店，我就會把這個數字往下拉。所以我相信市場其實大得多，但卻可以說是被不當對待。現在這個產業正在不當對待客戶，而我會試著看看能不能把這點傳達給客戶：我們不是那個在不當對待他們的人。

So we'll see how that goes. But a bunch of people have come into this industry, which you probably know them, and I don't. But they're big money operators, and they kind of view storage as a cow to be milked and I look at it more as a lamb to be petted and taken care of. So they're a little rough on the customer would be the nicest way to put it. And I think we can distinguish on our customer service, and I think there's enough people in the market now who this is their second or third time running storage, and they know that storage room is not a storage.

所以我們就看看結果如何。但有一大批人進入了這個產業，你可能認識他們，而我不認識。不過他們是大資金操盤手，他們有點把倉儲視為一頭可以擠奶的乳牛，而我更把它看作一隻需要被撫摸、被照顧的小羊。所以他們對客戶有點粗暴，這樣說算是最客氣的了。我認為我們可以在客戶服務上做出區隔，而且我覺得市場上現在有足夠多的人，這已經是他們第二次或第三次經營倉儲了，他們知道儲物間不是「倉庫」。

It's not a storage. We'll see if I can communicate that to the wider group of customers. Overall, I think we've been outperforming our peer group, if you wanted to find that as the big REITs, I believe we've done a better job of being able to maintain rates and expand customer base. Now, I don't get any numbers of theirs that you don't see. So I don't have any special look into their numbers, but it seems that they're having difficulty holding move in rates at or above move-out rates.

它不是倉庫。看看我能不能把這點傳達給更廣泛的客戶群。整體而言，我認為我們一直在跑贏同業，如果你把大型REITs當作同業群，我相信我們在維持租金水準與擴大客戶基礎方面做得更好。當然，我拿不到你看不到的他們的任何數字。所以我沒有什麼特別管道能看到他們的數據，但看起來他們在維持入住價格不低於退租價格方面遇到困難。

We're still able to maintain a differential there. I think that's significant. I'm optimistic I can fill more rooms, but I've got it pretty close to the edge, I think, Jamie, as far as -- we're pushing somewhere as -- Jason may have a better number, 220,000, 230,000 empty units, something like that.

我們仍然能在兩者之間維持一個價差。我認為這很重要。我對能填滿更多房間感到樂觀，但我覺得我已經把它推到相當接近極限了，Jamie，就目前而言——我們正推進到某個程度——Jason可能有更好的數字，大概有220,000、230,000個空置單位，差不多是這樣。

If you include the managed portfolio, so U-Haul-branded stores were about 290,000 rooms available.

如果把受管理的投資組合也算進去，那麼掛U-Haul品牌的門市大約有290,000間可用儲物間。

Okay. So all of those are depending on either a liability or an opportunity. So as a shareholder, you're probably seeing a little bit as a liability because you're paying for them and get nothing for it. I think we're going to see significant progress in filling those rooms and that's how I have my teams wound up. At the same time, that we've increased successfully, we've increased total customers every year in conventional self-storage. We've done the same thing. We've introduced something like 100,000 storage customers in the U-Box.

好的。所以這些要嘛是一項負債，要嘛是一個機會。因此以股東角度看，你可能更把它視為負債，因為你在為它們付錢卻沒有得到回報。我認為我們會在填滿這些房間方面看到顯著進展，這也是我讓團隊全力以赴的方向。同時，我們在傳統自助倉儲方面，每年都成功增加了總客戶數。我們一直都是這樣做的。我們在U-Box上大概引入了約100,000名倉儲客戶。

So from the point of view of operating a facility, that manager is looking at a total storage customer base. So I'm not disgusted with our performance. But I think our performance has to be better because we've invested the money. But I think we're showing we're resonating with the customer as much or better than anybody else in the business.

所以從營運一個據點的角度來看，那位經理看到的是整體的倉儲客戶基礎。所以我並不對我們的表現感到失望。但我認為我們的表現必須更好，因為我們已經投入了資金。不過我覺得我們正在證明，我們與客戶產生共鳴的程度不亞於、甚至優於這個行業的任何人。

I believe you have two customers here. One is the person who rents your storage facilities and truck rentals and the other customer are investors. And investors would love to see you harvest some of the value you've created where you've turned $1 into $4, but we can't see it. Whatever you can do in that respect would be a good thing for --

我相信你這裡有兩種客戶。一種是租用你們倉儲設施與卡車租賃服務的人，另一種客戶是投資人。而投資人很希望看到你把你創造的部分價值收割出來——你把1美元變成4美元——但我們看不到。你在這方面能做的任何事，對-- 都會是好事

I got it --

我明白了--

It's a consolation, I'm 76. I'm kind of getting a little closer to wanting to see the goose lay some golden eggs too. All right.

算是一點安慰吧，我76歲了。我也開始更想看到那隻鵝下幾顆金蛋了。好。

Appreciate your thoughts.

感謝你的想法。

(Operator Instructions) Steven Ralston, Zacks.

(接線員指示) Steven Ralston，Zacks。

I just want to circle back around and tap Joe's experience and get a historical perspective. You've pointed out that you're in a very unique period with the emphasis on EV vehicles and the demand that came through COVID. When you think about the situation in your past, does it remind you of any time in the past where you resolved the situation and how it happened and you use that as like key markers in managing the company?

我想回到前面，借重Joe的經驗，取得一些歷史角度。你指出我們正處於一個非常獨特的時期，重點在電動車，以及COVID帶來的需求。當你回想過去的情況時，這是否讓你想起任何你曾經解決過的類似時期？當時是怎麼發生、怎麼解決的？你是否把那些當作管理公司時的關鍵指標？

In a general sense, yes. But in fleet, we've always been able to buy all the fleet we had money for. Our problem up until recently was we always were capital constrained. And then this flipped COVID and post-COVID, and we can buy what someone says we can have. That's -- that -- we don't have a lot of markers in there. But of course, we're working on it regularly. I think if I had to do this all over again, coming out of COVID or I'll say post-COVID, I would not have -- when they went on allocation, I'd have told them to keep their trucks. That's what I'll tell them next time.

從一般意義上來說，是的。但在車隊方面，我們一直都能買到我們有錢能買的所有車隊車輛。直到最近之前，我們的問題一直是資本受限。然後COVID與後COVID時期把情況翻轉了，我們能買到的是別人說願意給我們的。這——那——我們在這方面沒有太多可參照的指標。但當然，我們一直在持續處理。我想如果要我重來一次，從COVID走出來，或我說後COVID時期，當他們開始配額供應時，我本來應該告訴他們把卡車留著。下次我就會這麼告訴他們。

They keep their trucks and when they jack prices, they can keep their trucks because I can sweat out two, three, four years, and I think my customer will support me. I think I was over eager to buy trucks because we had such a nice balance in '16. I wanted to get back to that balance quickly. And I didn't stand firm enough when they came through with massive price increases.

他們把卡車留著；當他們把價格大幅拉高時，他們也可以把卡車留著，因為我可以撐過兩年、三年、四年，我想我的客戶會支持我。我想我當時太急著買卡車，因為我們在2016年有一個很好的平衡。我想快速回到那個平衡。而當他們提出大幅漲價時，我沒有堅持得夠。

I just don't know it's unsupportable. Now they had all this talk, and we all saw it and I think everybody is a little guilty of this saying that, as Mary Barra did, she had something, I don't know, after 2037 or something, GM will not make an internal combustion engine. Well, if you're on my end of the deal, that's a frightening thought because the other ones don't run, you see. So you can see how I fell into the trap and think well hell, if she's not going to build any, but then my friends at Ford didn't make quite as broad a statement, but practically speaking, they were running their investment as if they were no longer willing to make it. An example, they quit the second shift to one of their truck plants.

我只是不知道那是否不可承受。當時他們有很多說法，我們也都看到了，我想大家多少都有點責任，像Mary Barra說的，她有個說法，我不知道，是2037年之後還是什麼時候，GM將不再生產內燃機。嗯，如果你站在我這一端，那是個可怕的想法，因為其他那些車不會跑，你懂的。所以你可以理解我怎麼會掉進這個陷阱，心想：見鬼，如果她不再造了；而我在Ford的朋友雖然沒有做出那麼廣泛的聲明，但實務上，他們的投資運作就像他們已不再願意生產一樣。例如，他們把其中一座卡車工廠的第二班次取消了。

We've been the beneficiaries of that second shift for at least 10 years. So when they put a second shift to that plant, I will -- where the hell is trucks going to come from. So I think we'd have come out better if we'd just let the fleet age by just what suited us and just at the price that suited us and we wouldn't be trying to digest all this excess cost. But that's not what happens.

我們至少10年來一直是那個第二班次的受益者。所以當他們把那座工廠的第二班次拿掉時，我就想——見鬼，卡車要從哪裡來？所以我認為，如果我們只是讓車隊按適合我們的節奏老化、並且只在適合我們的價格下更新，我們的結果會更好，也不至於要消化這些額外成本。但事情並不是那樣發展的。

So now we've got to digest it and want to work it in a way that it doesn't come back and plague people who are trying to make fleet decisions five and six years from now and I want to try to smooth it out. And so that's causing us in some models to buy a few more trucks than an analyst would testify, but when you look at the age of the truck and what that's going to do to you going ahead, I think experience tells me you want to buy some trucks. So -- so no, I don't have a marker and experience on this.

所以現在我們得把它消化掉，並希望以一種方式處理，避免它回過頭來困擾五、六年後還在做車隊決策的人，我想盡量把波動平滑化。因此在某些車型上，這會導致我們買的卡車比分析師可能會認為合理的還要多一些，但當你看卡車的車齡以及未來會對你造成的影響時，我的經驗告訴我，你會想買一些卡車。所以——所以不，我在這件事上沒有什麼可參照的指標與經驗。

Self-storage, I have a lot of markers and experience on. I'm fairly confident that, that's -- those are all good money bets. But the timing is too slow, and it's not enough to command investor support, which I understand I'm an investor here, too. So -- but we have markers. We can look at market penetration by various markets and storage market -- the demand for that product has far exceeded anyone's expectations. I think you could say that of any of the major companies.

自助倉儲方面，我有很多可參照的指標與經驗。我相當有信心，那些——那些都是很好的賺錢押注。但時點太慢，而且不足以獲得投資人的支持；我理解，因為我也是投資人。所以——但我們有指標。我們可以看各個市場的滲透率，以及倉儲市場——對那項產品的需求遠遠超出任何人的預期。我想你可以對任何一家主要公司都這麼說。

No one really appreciated how much demand there was for that product or there is for that product, and it's still being served in a spotty fashion. So filling in those gaps is an opportunity for someone if they can identify them and then get them filled.

其實沒有人真正意識到那項產品的需求有多大，或是目前對那項產品的需求有多大，而且目前仍以零星、不穩定的方式在提供服務。因此，如果有人能夠辨識出這些缺口並加以補足，這對他們而言就是一個機會。

There are no further questions at this time. I will now turn the call back over to Sebastien Reyes for closing remarks.

目前沒有其他問題。我現在把電話交回給 Sebastien Reyes 作結語。

Thanks, Jenny. I have one question that I wanted to post here that came in during the call. U-Haul's profit margins, excluding depreciation, have been in constant decline for the last decade. Please explain why margins have been so persistently weak since 2016, and please explain your plan to restore the profitability of this great company.

謝謝你，Jenny。我有一個在電話會議期間收到、我想在這裡提出的問題。U-Haul 的利潤率（不含折舊）在過去十年持續下滑。請解釋為何自 2016 年以來利潤率一直如此疲弱，並請說明你們恢復這家優秀公司獲利能力的計畫。

Well, this is Jason. I'll take that one. Well, 2016 is picking the high point of our EBITDA margin. So that our earnings over the history of the company have been a little bit cyclical largely in relation to how much we expand the organization over a certain timeframe. So to pick 2016, which I think was maybe 35%, 36% EBITDA margin. The 10 years before that, our EBITDA margin was 25%. And the 10 years since 2016, our average EBITDA margin has been 33%.

好的，我是 Jason。我來回答這題。嗯，2016 年剛好是我們 EBITDA 利潤率的高點。因此，從公司歷史來看，我們的獲利其實有些週期性，主要與我們在某段期間擴張組織的幅度有關。所以如果以 2016 年為基準，我記得當時 EBITDA 利潤率大概是 35%、36%。在那之前的 10 年，我們的 EBITDA 利潤率是 25%。而自 2016 年以來的 10 年，我們的平均 EBITDA 利潤率是 33%。

So there has been actually a structural improvement in how the organization has been run. And we've included a slide that shows this trend of improving EBITDA margins that -- I don't think it's happenstance that it coincides with our growth in the self storage and the U-Box market. Since fiscal '16, we've had some up years and down years. I would say that during COVID years where we got back up to the mid 30% range, there was some recognition of revenue and not the recognition of the associated expenses that went along with it.

所以，組織的營運方式其實出現了結構性的改善。我們也放了一張投影片，顯示 EBITDA 利潤率改善的趨勢——我不認為這是巧合，因為它與我們在自助倉儲與 U-Box 市場的成長相吻合。自 2016 會計年度以來，我們有些年份表現較好、有些年份較弱。我會說，在 COVID 那幾年我們回到 30% 中段區間時，某種程度上是因為收入被認列了，但與之相對應的費用並未同步認列。

So for example, the repair and maintenance that we were incurring during the work-from-home phase where revenues shot up. Under current accounting rules, you can't accrue for expected maintenance based upon how much the truck is going right now. So we accrued all of these miles and recognized the revenue and then there was a couple of years after that, that we've been paying for the repair and expense associated with that.

例如，在居家辦公階段、收入大幅上升時，我們實際發生的維修與保養成本。依照現行會計規則，你不能根據卡車目前的行駛量，去預提預期的維護費用。因此，我們累積了這些里程並認列了收入，而在之後的幾年，我們才陸續支付與之相關的維修與費用。

Then we also had the somewhat idiosyncratic event where our former auditors failed to see the wisdom in how we chose to reserve for our self-insurance liabilities, and they took -- I think it was $88 million out of our self-insurance reserves in order to sign the opinion. And now over time, I think we've seen that we would have been much better off to leave those reserves on the books, and that would have been a little bit more of a shock absorber, right? Because during COVID transactions increased, so the rate of incident, potential incidents increased, well now we're dealing with as those incidents that happened back then are developing, they're becoming a little bit worse than what was originally thought. It's always ifs and buts.

另外，我們也遇到一個相當特殊的事件：我們之前的查核會計師未能認同我們對自我保險負債提列準備的方式，為了出具查核意見，他們把——我記得是 8,800 萬美元——從我們的自我保險準備中扣掉。而現在隨著時間推移，我想我們已經看到，如果當時把那些準備留在帳上會好得多，那會是一個更好的緩衝，對吧？因為在 COVID 期間交易量增加，所以事故發生率、潛在事故也增加；而現在我們正在面對的是，當時發生的那些事故在後續發展中，情況變得比原先預期更嚴重一些。這些事情總是充滿各種假設與變數。

But for this quarter, if we had a normal U-Move revenue quarter of 4% growth, and we didn't have the reserve strengthening, we would be looking at an average EBITDA margin. So I'm hesitant to agree with the premise that there's something structurally wrong with the how we're operating the business from an expense perspective, I would say that it's a revenue issue, and then it's a cycle.

但就本季而言，如果我們的 U-Move 收入是一個正常季度、成長 4%，而且我們沒有進行準備金的補強，那我們看到的 EBITDA 利潤率會接近平均水準。所以我不太願意同意「我們在費用面營運上存在結構性問題」這個前提；我會說這是收入問題，然後也與週期有關。

We've been in an unprecedented growth cycle how much we've grown the fleet and how much we've grown self-storage. And frankly, I think we've done a reasonably good job in keeping the EBITDA margins where they're at, while we're going through this process. Now all of that to say, a decent EBITDA margin for us over a 12-month period is going to be in the low 30% ranges and we are underperforming that this year.

我們正處於一個前所未有的成長週期：我們擴大了車隊規模，也擴張了自助倉儲業務。坦白說，我認為在這個過程中，我們在維持 EBITDA 利潤率於目前水準方面做得相當不錯。不過話說回來，對我們而言，在 12 個月期間內，一個不錯的 EBITDA 利潤率大概會落在 30% 出頭，而我們今年的表現低於這個水準。

Well, thanks again, everyone, for your participation. We look forward to speaking with you again after we report our year-end results in May. Thanks.

再次感謝各位的參與。我們期待在 5 月公布年度期末結果後，再次與各位交流。謝謝。

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, the conference has now ended. Thank you all for joining you. You may all disconnect your lines.

謝謝。各位女士、先生，本次電話會議到此結束。感謝各位加入。各位可以掛斷電話線。