Unity Software Inc (U) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to Unity's first-quarter 2025 earnings call. My name is Alex Giaimo, and I recently joined Unity to lead Investor Relations. I'm thrilled to join the team and look forward to working with all of you.

早安，歡迎參加 Unity 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。我叫 Alex Giaimo，最近加入 Unity 負責投資人關係。我很高興加入這個團隊並期待與大家一起工作。

Today, I'm joined by Matt Bromberg, our CEO; and Jarrod Yahes, our CFO. Before we begin, I'd like to note that this conference call includes forward-looking statements, including statements about goals, business outlook, industry trends, market opportunities, financial performance, and similar items which are subject to risks, uncertainties, and assumptions that could cause actual results to differ from those expressed in these forward-looking statements.

今天，我們與執行長 Matt Bromberg 一起出席；以及我們的財務長 Jarrod Yahes。在我們開始之前，我想指出，本次電話會議包含前瞻性陳述，包括有關目標、業務前景、行業趨勢、市場機會、財務業績和類似項目的陳述，這些陳述受風險、不確定性和假設的影響，可能導致實際結果與這些前瞻性陳述中表達的結果不同。

We undertake no obligation to update any of our forward-looking statements. For more information about factors that may cause results to differ, please refer to the risks described in our most recent Form 10-K, particularly in the section entitled Risk Factors as updated by additional filings we make with the SEC from time to time.

我們不承擔更新任何前瞻性陳述的義務。有關可能導致結果不同的因素的更多信息，請參閱我們最新的 10-K 表中描述的風險，特別是標題為“風險因素”的部分，該部分會根據我們不時向美國證券交易委員會提交的補充文件進行更新。

Today's call will include both GAAP and non-GAAP financial measures. Non-GAAP financial measures are in addition to, and not a substitute for, or superior to GAAP results. A full reconciliation of GAAP to non-GAAP financial results is available in our earnings release, which can be found on our Investor Relations website and on the sec.gov website.

今天的電話會議將包括 GAAP 和非 GAAP 財務指標。非公認會計準則 (Non-GAAP) 財務指標是對公認會計準則 (GAAP) 結果的補充，而非替代或優於公認會計準則 (GAAP) 結果。我們的收益報告提供了 GAAP 與非 GAAP 財務結果的完整對賬，您可以在我們的投資者關係網站和 sec.gov 網站上找到。

With that, I'll pass the call over to Matt.

說完這些，我會把電話轉給馬特。

Thanks, Alex. It's really good to have you with us, and good morning, everybody. On behalf of all the people of Unity, I'd like to thank each of you for joining us today.

謝謝，亞歷克斯。很高興您能加入我們，大家早安。我謹代表 Unity 全體人民感謝各位今天的到來。

The transformation of our company gained significant momentum in the first quarter. Through our commitment to building a culture of execution and discipline, re-establishing trust with our customers in the community, and accelerating both the pace and quality of our product innovation, we're creating the conditions to catalyze rapid Unity.

一季度，公司轉型發展勢頭強勁。透過致力於建立執行力和紀律性的文化、重建與社區客戶的信任、加快產品創新的速度和質量，我們正在創造催化快速統一的條件。

In the first quarter, strength across both the Grow and Create segments helped drive results that exceeded expectations, beating the high end of our guidance for revenue by 5% and adjusted EBITDA by 29%. The progress in our Grow business has been particularly encouraging.

在第一季度，成長和創造兩個部門的強勁表現推動業績超出預期，收入超出我們預期的高端，調整後 EBITDA 超出 29%。我們的種植業務的進展尤其令人鼓舞。

Last quarter, we announced the intention to migrate the Unity ad network to our new AI platform, Unity Vector, by the end of Q2. Today, we're excited to report that this migration has already been fully completed, with all the iOS and Android traffic on the Unity ad network now running on Vector, well ahead of the schedule. This is a significant first milestone and a testament to our commitment to rapid continuous product innovation in our advertising business.

上個季度，我們宣布計劃在第二季末將 Unity 廣告網路遷移到我們的新 AI 平台 Unity Vector。今天，我們很高興地報告，此次遷移已經全面完成，Unity 廣告網路上的所有 iOS 和 Android 流量現在都在 Vector 上運行，這遠遠提前於計劃。這是一個重要的第一個里程碑，證明了我們致力於在廣告業務中快速持續進行產品創新。

With Vector now operational, we can begin to leverage data from across the Unity ecosystem to provide deeper insights, optimize performance, and deliver better return on investment for our customers. Our journey to compete in a fundamentally new way has now officially started, as our self-learning models adapt in real time, helping customers navigate an increasingly competitive mobile marketplace.

隨著 Vector 的投入運營，我們可以開始利用整個 Unity 生態系統的數據來提供更深入的見解、優化性能並為客戶提供更好的投資回報。我們的全新競爭方式之旅現已正式啟動，我們的自學習模型可以即時調整，幫助客戶在競爭日益激烈的行動市場中游刃有餘。

The accelerated timeframe of the Vector rollout means that our customers are already experiencing a lift in the return they're seeing from spending with Unity. In iOS, where we've now had enough time to develop reliable data, Vector is providing a 15% to 20% lift in both the number of installs and the value of in-app purchases when compared to our old model. That means more players and more players who spend more, providing our advertisers with a higher return on their investment with us. Although our Android migration is more recent, it's happily on a similar trajectory to where iOS was during the same period of development.

Vector 推出的加速時間表意味著我們的客戶已經體驗到了從 Unity 支出中獲得的回報的提升。在 iOS 中，我們現在有足夠的時間來開發可靠的數據，與我們的舊型號相比，Vector 在安裝數量和應用程式內購買價值方面都提高了 15% 到 20%。這意味著更多的玩家和花費更多的玩家，為我們的廣告商帶來更高的投資回報。儘管我們向 Android 的遷移是最近的事情，但令人高興的是，它的發展軌跡與 iOS 在同一發展時期的發展軌跡相似。

Now, we look forward to the next phase of our plan, where we will work closely with our customers to help optimize and enhance the performance of their user acquisition capabilities over time, while also continuing to invest in improving the fundamental AI each day. These strong early results not only provide confidence that we're on the right track with Vector, they also enable us to continue to take an aggressive approach with respect to the modernization of our ad business overall.

現在，我們期待計畫的下一階段，我們將與客戶密切合作，幫助他們隨著時間的推移優化和提高用戶獲取能力的效能，同時繼續每天投資改進基礎人工智慧。這些強勁的早期業績不僅讓​​我們對 Vector 的發展方向充滿信心，而且還使我們能夠繼續積極地推進整個廣告業務的現代化。

Our primary focus is on creating meaningful, sustainable revenue growth over the long term. That means we don't hesitate to move resources to our best performing products, short-term revenue impacts notwithstanding. As a consequence, in Q2, investors won't yet fully see the Vector-driven lift in our financial results. That said, our confidence in the future of our Grow business has never been stronger.

我們的主要重點是長期創造有意義的、可持續的收入成長。這意味著我們會毫不猶豫地將資源轉移到我們表現最好的產品上，儘管這會對短期收入產生影響。因此，在第二季度，投資人還無法完全看到 Vector 帶來的財務表現提升。儘管如此，我們對 Grow 業務未來的信心從未如此強烈。

We're equally excited about progress in the Create business. Unity 6, the most stable and performant version of Unity we've ever shipped, has now registered more than 4.4 million downloads since launch. 43% of our active users have already moved to Unity 6, with recent survey data suggesting that more than 80% of users are currently intending to upgrade. And we can see this enhanced connection to our customers flowing through to our financial results as well, with subscription revenues in Create growing double digits year over year in the quarters.

我們對 Create 業務的進展同樣感到興奮。Unity 6 是我們迄今為止發布的最穩定、性能最強的 Unity 版本，自發布以來下載量已超過 440 萬次。 43% 的活躍用戶已經遷移到 Unity 6，最近的調查數據表明，超過 80% 的用戶目前打算升級。我們可以看到，與客戶的這種增強聯繫也體現在我們的財務業績中，Create 的訂閱收入在各季度同比增長了兩位數。

In April, we launched Unity 6.1. 6.1 is the first release to leverage our new production testing methodology, which validates our software in real production environments to ensure that our customers never again have to choose between adopting new features and maintaining stability.

四月，我們推出了 Unity 6.1。 6.1 是我們第一個利用新生產測試方法的版本，該方法在實際生產環境中驗證了我們的軟體，以確保我們的客戶不再需要在採用新功能和保持穩定性之間做出選擇。

Unity 6.1 also significantly enhances the number of platforms or developers can reach, including day one support for Nintendo Switch 2, Meta Quest, Android XR, foldable Android screens, instant games, and web GPU. For the Switch 2, we battle tested Unity through a first-of-its-kind partnership with Konami, where our internal teams built a full launch title called Survival Kids.

Unity 6.1 也大幅增加了開發者可以支援的平台數量，包括對 Nintendo Switch 2、Meta Quest、Android XR、可折疊 Android 螢幕、即時遊戲和 Web GPU 的首日支援。對於 Switch 2，我們透過與 Konami 的首次合作對 Unity 進行了嚴格測試，我們的內部團隊打造了一款名為「Survival Kids」的完整發行遊戲。

The valuable feedback obtained during the development process of this game will drive future enhancements to the Unity engine. We're particularly optimistic about the future potential of AR and VR gaming and entertainment. With recent research from NewGenApps predicting the market will reach 216 million players worldwide by 2025.

在該遊戲開發過程中獲得的寶貴回饋將推動Unity引擎未來的增強。我們對 AR 和 VR 遊戲和娛樂的未來潛力特別樂觀。NewGenApps 最近的研究預測，到 2025 年，全球市場玩家數量將達到 2.16 億。

Our goal is to stay at the forefront of this evolution, and for Unity to continue to be the go to platform powering AR and VR experiences, where we're already powering the majority of the top applications in the marketplace.

我們的目標是始終站在這項變革的前沿，並讓 Unity 繼續成為支援 AR 和 VR 體驗的首選平台，目前我們已經為市場上大多數頂級應用程式提供支援。

As one measure of Unity's continued strength with the next generation of game developers, not four or five, but all nine of the nine game categories at the Independent Gaming Festival Awards of 2025 went to games made with Unity. In addition, Neva by Nomada Studios, and Thank Goodness You're Here! by Coal Supper, both won 2025 BAFTA awards with made with Unity titles, an incredible recognition of the talent and creativity in our community.

作為衡量 Unity 在下一代遊戲開發者中持續實力的指標之一，2025 年獨立遊戲節獎項的九個遊戲類別中，不是四五個，而是全部九個都頒給了使用 Unity 製作的遊戲。此外，還有 Nomada Studios 的 Neva 和 Thank Goodness You're Here！由 Coal Supper 製作的兩部 Unity 作品均榮獲 2025 年英國電影學院獎，這是對我們社區的才華和創造力的極大認可。

And finally, the growth of the Unity platform beyond games into other industry verticals continues to represent the fastest growing part of our subscription business. Consistent strong demand across a wide variety of industries and use cases has resulted in both nine straight quarters of sequential revenue growth, as well as meaningful year-over-year revenue growth as well.

最後，Unity 平台從遊戲領域擴展到其他垂直產業，這繼續代表我們訂閱業務成長最快的部分。各行各業和各種用例的持續強勁需求，帶來了連續九個季度的收入成長，以及同比顯著的收入成長。

New customers include Philips, using Unity for minimally invasive surgery simulation; Siemens, who's modernizing its training and workforce development; and Toshiba Elevator and Building Systems, who's creating digital twins of installation sites. The Unity platform has tremendous potential outside of gaming, and we are increasingly optimistic about our ability to capitalize on this opportunity at scale.

新客戶包括飛利浦，使用 Unity 進行微創手術模擬；西門子正在對其培訓和勞動力發展進行現代化改造；以及正在創建安裝現場數位孿生的東芝電梯和建築系統。Unity 平台在遊戲之外具有巨大的潛力，我們對大規模利用此機會的能力越來越樂觀。

I'd like to thank all of our teams globally for their relentless efforts, as we continue to transform Unity and earn our customers' trust each day. The only company we know of that is capable of supporting developers across the full life cycle of development, Unity plays a unique role in helping our customers move from prototype to profitability faster and more efficiently than ever before. It's a role we feel privileged to play.

我要感謝我們全球所有團隊的不懈努力，我們將繼續改變 Unity 並每天贏得客戶的信任。據我們所知，Unity 是唯一一家能夠為開發人員提供整個開發生命週期支援的公司，它在幫助我們的客戶比以往更快、更有效率地從原型轉向盈利方面發揮著獨特的作用。我們很榮幸能夠扮演這個角色。

Thank you again for your time and attention this morning. With that, I'll pass it over to Jarrod for an overview of financial performance. Jarrod?

再次感謝您今天上午的時間和關注。說完這些，我會把報告交給賈羅德 (Jarrod)，讓他概述一下財務表現。賈羅德？

Thanks, Matt. I'm pleased to report that Unity exceeded the top end of our guidance on all measures in the first quarter. Revenue exceeded the top end of our guidance by $20 million, with adjusted EBITDA coming in $19 million above the top end of our guidance.

謝謝，馬特。我很高興地報告，Unity 在第一季的所有指標上都超出了我們預期的最高水準。收入超出我們預期的最高值 2000 萬美元，調整後的 EBITDA 超出我們預期的最高值 1900 萬美元。

Grow revenue in the first quarter was $285 million, down 4% year over year, with revenue upside compared to our guidance, partially driven by an acceleration of the rollout of Unity Vector, where we're seeing better performance than expected at this early stage. In Create, revenue was $150 million, down 8% year over year, driven by our transition away from the low margin professional services business.

第一季度，Grow 的營收為 2.85 億美元，年減 4%，但與我們的預期相比，營收有所上升，部分原因是 Unity Vector 的推出加速，我們在早期階段看到了比預期更好的表現。在 Create 業務方面，營收為 1.5 億美元，年減 8%，這主要是因為我們逐漸放棄低利潤的專業服務業務。

Through this deliberate transformation, we've optimized our revenue mix, with high margin subscription business now representing nearly 80% of Create revenue. Our core Subscription business continues to demonstrate strong momentum, delivering double-digit year- over-year growth this quarter, positioning us for sustainable, profitable expansion.

透過這種深思熟慮的轉型，我們優化了收入結構，高利潤的訂閱業務現在佔 Create 收入的近 80%。我們的核心訂閱業務繼續表現出強勁勢頭，本季實現了兩位數的同比增長，為我們實現可持續的盈利擴張奠定了基礎。

Turning from revenue to non-GAAP profitability, adjusted EBITDA for the quarter was $84 million with 19% margins. Adjusted EBITDA margins expanded 200 basis points year over year in the first quarter, driven by operating leverage in the platform, and solid cost management across expense lines, particularly in G&A and sales and marketing, where total expense was down roughly [$20 million] year over year.

從營收轉向非 GAAP 獲利能力，本季調整後的 EBITDA 為 8,400 萬美元，利潤率為 19%。第一季調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率年增 200 個基點，這得益於平台的營運槓桿以及各項支出的穩健成本管理，尤其是在一般及行政管理以及銷售和營銷方面，總支出同比下降了約 [2000 萬美元]。

R&D costs are up at $10 million over the last few quarters as a result of heavy investment in Unity Vector. We would expect those costs normalized in the back half of the year, as we transition away from running both our legacy and new Unity ad models in parallel.

由於對 Unity Vector 的大量投資，過去幾季的研發成本增加了 1,000 萬美元。隨著我們不再同時運行傳統和新的 Unity 廣告模式，我們預計這些成本將在今年下半年恢復正常。

Free cash flow in the first quarter was $7 million an improvement of $22 million year over year. The first quarter is traditionally the most modest seasonally from a free cash flow standpoint given the concentration of pre-paids, personnel costs, as well as payments to the supply side of the Grow network.

第一季的自由現金流為 700 萬美元，比去年同期增加了 2,200 萬美元。從自由現金流的角度來看，第一季通常是最溫和的季度，因為預付款、人員成本以及向 Grow 網路供應方的付款都較為集中。

As we focus on driving per-share returns, in the first quarter, we've started to report out on adjusted EPS in our disclosures. Adjusted EPS in the first quarter was $0.24, and investors should expect to see a sharper focus on minimizing shareholder dilution and stock comp expense, which came down nearly $45 million year over year as we left M&A-related vestings.

由於我們專注於提高每股收益，因此在第一季度，我們已開始在披露中報告調整後的每股收益。第一季調整後的每股收益為 0.24 美元，投資者應該會看到公司更加重視減少股東稀釋和股票補償費用，由於我們取消了與併購相關的歸屬，這兩項費用同比下降了近 4500 萬美元。

In terms of our balance sheet, cash at the end of the quarter was $1.5 billion, and debt was $2.2 billion. In February, we priced a $690 million convert, and the offering was extremely well received. The deal was upsized and priced with zero coupon, and a capped call with a capped price of $47.74. We used the proceeds of the offering to repurchase $688 million of principal balance of 2026 notes and effectively extend those maturities into 2030. This transaction ensures that Unity has the capital structure with a smoother debt maturity profile, and we now feel extremely comfortable with where we are from a financing standpoint.

就我們的資產負債表而言，本季末的現金為 15 億美元，債務為 22 億美元。今年 2 月，我們發行了價值 6.9 億美元的可轉換債券，受到了熱烈歡迎。該交易規模擴大，採用零息票定價，並設有封頂看漲期權，封頂價格為 47.74 美元。我們利用發行所得回購了 6.88 億美元的 2026 年票據本金餘額，並有效地將這些到期日延長至 2030 年。這項交易確保了 Unity 擁有更平穩的債務到期狀況的資本結構，從融資角度來看，我們現在對自己的現狀感到非常滿意。

With that, I'd now like to turn to guidance for the second quarter. We're expecting total second quarter revenues of $415 million to $425 million and adjusted EBITDA of $70 million to $75 million. In Grow, we expect steady sequential revenues, driven by improved performance of Unity Vector. This revenue growth is expected to be offset by declines in select legacy ad products in the second quarter.

有了這些，我現在想談談第二季的指導。我們預計第二季總營收為 4.15 億美元至 4.25 億美元，調整後 EBITDA 為 7,000 萬美元至 7,500 萬美元。在 Grow 方面，我們預期會受到 Unity Vector 業績提升的推動，其營收將保持穩定。預計第二季部分傳統廣告產品的下滑將抵銷這項營收成長。

However, as the performance of Vector continues to improve, we expect to see the overall Grow business return to revenue growth, with the performance improvement from Vector outpacing any other headwinds we face. In Create, we expect continued momentum in our Subscription business across the gaming and industry verticals. However, we're forecasting a slight sequential decline in Create due to an expected runoff in non-strategic revenues.

然而，隨著 Vector 業績的持續改善，我們預計整體 Grow 業務將恢復收入成長，而 Vector 的業績改善將超過我們面臨的任何其他不利因素。在 Create 中，我們預計遊戲和行業垂直領域的訂閱業務將繼續保持強勁勢頭。然而，由於非策略收入預計將減少，我們預測 Create 的營收將出現環比小幅下滑。

Before turning the call over for questions, I'd like to extend a warm welcome to Alex Giaimo, who recently joined Unity as our new Head of Investor Relations. And with that, I'd like to thank you for joining us on Unity's first-quarter 2025 conference call and let me turn the call over to Alex so that we can take your questions.

在轉入提問環節之前，我想先向最近加入 Unity 並擔任投資者關係主管的 Alex Giaimo 表示熱烈的歡迎。最後，我要感謝您參加 Unity 2025 年第一季電話會議，讓我將電話交給 Alex，以便我們回答您的問題。

(Event Instructions) Matt Cost, Morgan Stanley.

（活動說明） 摩根士丹利的馬特‧科斯特 (Matt Cost)。

Hi everybody, can you hear me? Hello?

大家好，聽得到我說話嗎？你好？

Yes. Go ahead, Matt.

是的。繼續吧，馬特。

Matt, we can hear you.

馬特，我們聽得到你的聲音。

Yeah. Sorry about that. Great. Well, thanks for taking the question. I guess on the Vector rollout, I guess if we could just dig down one level deeper there. Are you seeing the customers that are on Vector responds to that 15% to 20% lift in installs and IIP by increasing their spend?

是的。很抱歉。偉大的。好的，感謝您提出這個問題。我想在 Vector 推出時，我們是否可以在那裡深入挖掘一個層次。您是否看到 Vector 上的客戶透過增加支出來應對安裝量和 IIP 增加 15% 至 20% 的情況？

And are you seeing customers shift over spend from legacy ad products on to the Vector-enabled products? Or is this a dynamic where you're kind of losing business on one hand, but trying to offset it by growing wallet share and increasing spend with the people who are on the new product?

您是否看到客戶將支出從傳統廣告產品轉向支援 Vector 的產品？或者這是一種動態，一方面你在失去業務，但另一方面卻試圖透過增加錢包份額和增加新產品用戶的支出來抵消它？

Matt, thank you very much for the question. Good to hear from you. The advertising business is a very competitive business. And there -- which means there's internal competition and external competition. And I think the best way to think about it is not to try to get 2Q.

馬特，非常感謝你的提問。很高興收到你的來信。廣告業是一個競爭非常激烈的行業。這意味著存在內部競爭和外部競爭。我認為思考這個問題的最好方法是不要試圖獲得 2Q。

What's really important is that performance of Vector is really positive, it's much more positive than even we had expected and it's driving return for advertisers. And what that means is they spend more. And we are seeing across the broad set of our customers, we're seeing customers begin to spend more with us. As all of you know, we are following the company, folks in the -- in performance-based advertising do not have fixed budget.

真正重要的是 Vector 的表現確實非常積極，甚至比我們預期的還要積極，並且為廣告商帶來了回報。這意味著他們要花更多的錢。我們看到，在我們的廣大客戶中，客戶開始在我們這裡花費更多。眾所周知，我們正在關注這家公司，從事基於績效的廣告的人員沒有固定的預算。

So they will spend up to the point they hit their ROAS targets. And when we perform better and provide more players, and more high-value players, they spend more with us. And so I would imagine that they are -- customers are moving budgets around all the time. But the point is that it's not capped. It's not a winner-take-all business. And so we're really excited about the broad growth we're seeing across the segment.

因此，他們會一直支出直到達到他們的 ROAS 目標。當我們表現得更好並提供更多球員、更多高價值球員時，他們就會在我們這裡花更多錢。所以我可以想像，客戶一直在調整預算。但重點是它沒有上限。這不是一個贏家通吃的生意。因此，我們對整個領域所看到的廣泛成長感到非常興奮。

Great. Thanks. And then on the subscription side, you noted kind of strong growth in the subscription revenue. You're seeing a lot of adoption of Unity 6, it seems, which is great. Is this mostly being driven by people being -- customers becoming subject to the higher pricing on Unity 6? Or is there a meaningful element of subscriber growth in that subscription revenue growth as well?

偉大的。謝謝。然後在訂閱方面，您注意到訂閱收入呈現強勁成長。看起來，你看到很多人採用 Unity 6，這很好。這是否主要是因為人們——客戶開始受到 Unity 6 更高定價的影響？或者說訂閱收入的成長中是否也包含訂閱用戶成長這有意義的因素？

You will start to see the impacts of some of the significant price increases that we made recently until the back half of the year. So that's not what you're seeing there. You're seeing both growth in the core business as well as some of the acts of some older pricing increases that we've made.

您將開始看到我們最近到今年下半年進行的一些大幅漲價的影響。所以這不是你在那裡看到的東西。您既看到了核心業務的成長，也看到了我們先前所採取的一些漲價措施。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

Andrew Boone, JMP Securities.

JMP證券的安德魯·布恩（Andrew Boone）。

Thanks much for taking the question. I wanted to ask again on Vector. Matt, you talked about incorporating data across the Unity ecosystem and optimizing performance. Can you just speak to the trajectory of the improvements to the model that we should be expecting for the back half of the year?

非常感謝您回答這個問題。我想再次詢問 Vector。馬特，您談到了在 Unity 生態系統中整合數據並優化效能。您能否談談我們預計今年下半年模型的改進軌跡？

Yeah. I think we're being prudent about how we're guiding this business, Andrew, just simply because it's a new business for us, it's a new system. And we just -- we really want to be thoughtful about how we think about as we go, which is why we reverted to quarterly guidance at this point. I guess, what I can tell you is that it continues to pace out in front of our expectations authentically. So that, as I said, we were able to pull in the launch of Vector by quite a number of weeks, which is going to have a positive impact on our business. It's just not one that we anticipated.

是的。安德魯，我認為我們對如何指導這項業務持謹慎態度，因為這對我們來說是一項新業務，是一個新的系統。我們只是——我們真的想認真考慮我們如何思考，這就是為什麼我們此時恢復季度指導。我想，我可以告訴你的是，它繼續真實地超越我們的預期。因此，正如我所說，我們能夠提前數週推出 Vector，這將對我們的業務產生積極影響。這只是我們未曾預料到的。

As the nature of this business, and you've heard me say this many times, is an iterative one. So we -- the business starts with small improvements, small daily interim improvements, and then we continue to work on the models, the models learn, they adapt. We find new sources of data for those models and they get better over time. And at some point, you see -- you begin to see step change functions.

因為這個業務的性質，而且你已經聽我說過很多次了，是一個迭代的性質。因此，我們的業務從小的改進開始，每天進行小的臨時改進，然後我們繼續研究模型，讓模型學習，進行適應。我們為這些模型找到了新的數據來源，並且它們隨著時間的推移而變得越來越好。在某個時刻，你會看到──你開始看到階躍變化的功能。

But we're sort of learning right along with our self-learning models. So what I would tell you at this point is that, again, we're ahead of schedule. We're seeing measurable increases of about -- as I said, about 15% to 20%, both in the scale that we're able to provide advertisers and in the quality of the users that are obtaining. And as a consequence, we have customers who, on a broad basis, are beginning to spend more.

但我們正在透過自學模式進行學習。所以我現在要告訴你們的是，我們又提前完成了計畫。正如我所說，我們看到了可衡量的成長，無論是我們能夠為廣告商提供的規模還是所獲得的用戶的質量，大約增長了 15% 到 20%。因此，總體而言，我們的客戶開始增加支出。

As I mentioned in the preamble here, that's really positive. But what it's also doing is giving us the ability to go back and fully get into modernizing the whole advertising business. So back to what Matt was asking a couple of minutes ago, we're focused on really driving Vector and Vector revenues. And if there's some movement of -- from one product to another inside, that's fine with us.

正如我在序言中提到的那樣，這確實是積極的。但它也讓我們有能力回過頭來全面實現整個廣告業務的現代化。回到馬特幾分鐘前問的問題，我們專注於真正推動 Vector 和 Vector 的收入。如果內部產品之間有移動的話，我們也沒問題。

But we're investing really heavily in the Vector business because we are very confident that over the long term, we'll be able to fundamentally compete in a different way. And a couple of quarters ago, when we were just beginning this build, there's a lot on the line for us.

但我們在 Vector 業務上投入了大量資金，因為我們非常有信心，從長遠來看，我們將能夠從根本上以不同的方式參與競爭。幾個季度前，當我們剛開始這項建設時，我們面臨許多任務。

And I guess what I just want to say, how pleased I am and proud of our team that we've been able to deliver a brand-new system that is now delivering measurable improvements for customers, and we're just really excited about continuing to lean into that over time.

我想我只想說，我很高興也很為我們的團隊感到自豪，我們能夠提供一個全新的系統，現在該系統正在為客戶帶來可衡量的改進，我們真的很高興能夠隨著時間的推移繼續依靠它。

That makes sense. And then I want to ask the obligatory macro question. Have you guys seen anything to date and is there anything that we should keep in mind just given the spectrum of potential outcomes for the broader economy as we think about the back half of '25?

這很有道理。然後我想問一個必問的宏觀問題。到目前為止，你們看到了什麼嗎？當我們考慮 25 年下半年時，考慮到整體經濟可能出現的一系列結果，我們應該記住什麼嗎？

Yeah. I mean we're obviously really closely monitoring the situation as everybody is. We have not seen any noticeable impact thus far on our business from some of the macro factors that we're seeing out in the world.

是的。我的意思是，我們顯然和大家一樣，正在密切關注局勢發展。到目前為止，我們還沒有看到世界上的一些宏觀因素對我們的業務產生明顯的影響。

A couple of just notes on that. The vast majority of our customers are obviously game makers. In general, historically, gaming has been relatively insulated from sort of macroeconomic moves. It's a very efficient and effective form of entertainment on a kind of per hour basis for folks historically. And so that may be part of it.

關於這一點，我只想說幾點。我們的絕大多數客戶顯然都是遊戲製作者。整體而言，從歷史上看，遊戲業相對不受宏觀經濟走勢的影響。從歷史上看，這是人們按小時計算的一種非常高效的娛樂形式。這可能是其中的一部分。

The other thing I'd direct you to is that the vast majority of our advertising spenders, for example, are promoting mobile games and principally free-to-play mobile games. So if there is any product that one would expect to be resilient in difficult times that would be free mobile products.

我想告訴你的另一件事是，我們的絕大多數廣告支出都在推廣手機遊戲，而且主要是免費手機遊戲。因此，如果說有任何產品能夠在困難時期保持韌性，那就是免費移動產品。

And the last thing I'd say is I'd reiterate the question -- or the answer from the question a couple of minutes ago, which is that, as long as we're -- we're dealing with advertisers who were spending on ROAS. So they don't pull back spend based on sentiment like a brand advertiser would. And so I think those are all probably partial reasons that we're just not seeing anything yet, but we want to be prudent about that, and we're obviously watching it very, very closely.

最後我想說的是，我要重申這個問題——或者幾分鐘前問題的答案，那就是，只要我們——我們就在與那些在 ROAS 上花錢的廣告商打交道。因此，他們不會像品牌廣告商那樣根據情緒減少支出。所以我認為這些可能都是我們尚未看到任何進展的部分原因，但我們希望對此保持謹慎，而且我們顯然正在非常密切地關注此事。

Tom Champion, Piper Sandler.

湯姆錢皮恩、派柏桑德勒。

Matt, I just wanted to get your perspective on the timing and sequencing of events here between Vector legacy Unity and ironSource, where are we in kind of the staging of this transition to Vector to the extent you can provide some color on that? And then how does that map to your R&D staff and resourcing behind that growth? And just maybe a broader comment on organizationally, do you feel like the company structure is where you want to be and in a good place to move forward?

馬特，我只是想了解一下您對 Vector 舊版 Unity 和 ironSource 之間事件的時間和順序的看法，我們目前處於向 Vector 過渡的哪個階段，您能否對此提供一些說明？那麼這與你們研發人員和成長背後的資源有何關係？從組織角度來說，您是否想做更廣泛的評論，您覺得公司目前的架構符合您的期望，並且有利於公司未來的發展？

Great. Thank you so much for the question. I appreciate it. Yeah, listen, we have been really -- we've been really focused on making all the investments we need to ensure that Vector and the kind of fundamental power that that brings to our ad stack is going to have everything it needs.

偉大的。非常感謝您的提問。我很感激。是的，聽著，我們真的——我們真的專注於進行所有必要的投資，以確保 Vector 及其為我們的廣告堆疊帶來的基本功能將擁有它所需的一切。

And to enable that transformation, we significantly increased our investment across the board in machine learning. We brought in new leadership. We hired new teams. We're obviously allocating money to GPU and CPU resources and infrastructure and tooling. So we're making all the investments we feel that we need to. And that includes, as Jarrod mentioned in his preamble, some increases in cloud costs that we expect to normalize in the back half.

為了實現這一轉變，我們大幅增加了對機器學習的投資。我們引入了新的領導。我們僱用了新的團隊。我們顯然正在為 GPU 和 CPU 資源以及基礎設施和工具分配資金。因此，我們正在進行我們認為需要的所有投資。正如賈羅德在序言中提到的那樣，這包括雲端運算成本的一些增加，我們預計下半年這些成本將恢復正常。

But we feel really good about those investments and the impact that it's having. We also reorganized our go-to-market teams a while back, splitting our revenue organization into two global teams, supply and demand, to be able to provide focus on both some of the newer ad products that we have and also some of the more legacy ad products.

但我們對這些投資及其產生的影響感到非常滿意。不久前，我們也重組了我們的行銷團隊，將我們的收入組織分為兩個全球團隊，即供應和需求團隊，以便能夠專注於我們擁有的一些較新的廣告產品以及一些較傳統的廣告產品。

But as I said also in my opening remarks, this -- we're really focused on having the full advertising segment grow. I'm agnostic with respect to how that -- what that mix is. And I'm not going to be overly precious or cautious in the immediate term about trying to optimize that. We're structuring ourselves for swift, short, long-term growth.

但正如我在開場白中所說的那樣，我們真正關注的是整個廣告領域的成長。我不知道那是怎樣的混合——是什麼樣的混合。並且我不會在短期內過於小心或謹慎地嘗試優化這一點。我們正在建立自己的結構以實現快速、短期和長期的成長。

I'm sure there will be some movement of customers from our internal products, but the fact is that there's moving across the whole market, and that's what's really important. We're going to take, hopefully, as much share externally, if not more than we are going to take internally. And in the end, we're going to have fast-growing ad business. And so that's sort of how we think about it.

我確信我們的內部產品會有一些客戶流失，但事實是整個市場都在變化，這才是真正重要的。我們希望在外部佔據的份額能夠和在內部佔據的份額一樣多，甚至更多。最終，我們的廣告業務將會快速成長。這就是我們對此的看法。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Brent Thill, Jefferies.

布倫特·蒂爾（Brent Thill），傑富瑞集團。

Thanks, Alex. Welcome. Matt, if you can just maybe give us your mile markers for the rest of the year on Vector? What are the big milestones you would like to hit through this year at a high level? And for Jarrod, really good margin upside, maybe discuss the cost base and where you see the continued opportunity to drive continued margin efficiency.

謝謝，亞歷克斯。歡迎。馬特，你能告訴我們你今年剩餘時間在 Vector 上的里程標記嗎？今年您希望實現哪些重大里程碑？對於 Jarrod 來說，利潤率確實有上升空間，也許可以討論成本基礎，以及您認為繼續推動利潤率效率的持續機會在哪裡。

Yeah, listen, the way to think about Vector is that in a way we just begun, right? In some ways, it's a sort of Vector 1.0. What I've shared with you today is that we literally just completed the migration a couple of weeks ago, and we're now up and running fully for the first time in these models. It is the very, very early inning for us on this. By definition, this process is a process of investment in learning and we're going to continue at that process.

是的，聽著，思考 Vector 的方式是我們才剛開始，對嗎？從某種程度上來說，它是一種 Vector 1.0。我今天與大家分享的是，我們實際上幾週前剛完成遷移，現在我們在這些模型中首次全面啟動並運行。對我們來說，這才剛開始。根據定義，這個過程是對學習的投資過程，我們將繼續這個過程。

So I guess the first thing I'd say is as I think about milestones is we are just very much at the beginning, and that's really, really important. As I look forward sort of strategically, I think -- I guess, what I'd reiterate, and we've talked about this on prior calls, is that we're not just an ad network. We're a platform provider. We're a -- we have a first-party relationship with all of our customers who are frequently building their games on our platform as well as a direct connect to billions of customers through our own [time]. And it has always been our contention that, that provides some fundamental advantages to us in this business.

所以我想我要說的第一件事是，當我想到里程碑時，我們才剛開始，這真的非常重要。當我從策略角度展望未來時，我想——我想重申的是，我們在之前的電話會議上也討論過這個問題，那就是我們不僅僅是一個廣告網路。我們是平台提供者。我們與所有經常在我們的平台上開發遊戲的客戶都建立了第一方關係，並透過我們自己的平台與數十億客戶直接建立聯繫。[時間]。我們始終認為，這為我們在該行業提供了一些根本優勢。

And the real upside for Unity is as we begin to take advantage of those opportunities and those still sit out in front of us, not way out in front of us. But there are the kinds of things that in the back half of this year and into '26, the kinds of opportunities that we'll be really focused on. So I guess the way we think about this internally is like we're at the starting gate, we're just beginning to run, and it's all in front of us.

對 Unity 來說，真正的好處在於，當我們開始利用這些機會時，這些機會仍然就在我們面前，而不是遙不可及。但今年下半年以及 2026 年，我們會真正關註一些機會。所以我想我們內心對此的看法就像我們站在起跑線上，我們才剛開始奔跑，而一切都在我們面前。

I'll let Jarrod pick up some of the cost commentary, but just to say, as we mentioned, that we do have some increased cloud costs as we've been running the two models in parallel, the old model, the new model. And one of the advantages of sort of getting to the starting gate and moving is that we'll only be operating one model, which is really helpful from a cost perspective.

我會讓賈羅德 (Jarrod) 談談一些成本評論，但正如我們所提到的，由於我們一直在並行運行兩種模型，即舊模型和新模型，因此我們的雲端成本確實有所增加。而進入起跑線並開始行動的優點之一就是我們只需要運行一種模式，從成本角度來看這確實很有幫助。

Yeah, Brent. We feel great about where we started the year with 19% EBITDA margins. There's a couple of hundred basis points of year-over-year margin expansion. But as we think about profitability for the business, first and foremost, the priority is to be able to resource the business to accelerate the growth, particularly of our ad business. That's extremely important.

是的，布倫特。我們對今年年初 19% 的 EBITDA 利潤率感到非常滿意。利潤率較去年同期擴大了幾百個基點。但當我們考慮業務獲利能力時，首要任務是能夠為業務提供資源以加速成長，特別是我們的廣告業務。這極為重要。

As Matt pointed out, we are putting a lot of resources into Vector, and we think there's a great opportunity there. With 80%-plus gross margins, there's a lot of operating leverage in our business. And as you've seen, as ad businesses scale, they can really drop that to the bottom line and significantly improve EBITDA margins over time.

正如馬特所指出的，我們為 Vector 投入了大量資源，我們認為這是一個巨大的機會。由於毛利率超過 80%，我們的業務具有很大的經營槓桿。如您所見，隨著廣告業務規模的擴大，他們可以真正將其降至底線，並隨著時間的推移顯著提高 EBITDA 利潤率。

We're being thoughtful. We're being prudent about the way we run and operate the business operationally. There's lots of opportunity for automation. We're taking a prudent approach to head count and we're rationalizing our software spend, which are all the things you'd expect us to do quarter in and quarter out. But again, first and foremost, we think there's a great revenue growth acceleration opportunity and we're making sure to resource that appropriately while keeping an eye on the bottom line.

我們正在深思熟慮。我們對業務的運作和運作方式非常謹慎。自動化有很多機會。我們對員工人數採取審慎的態度，並合理化我們的軟體支出，這些都是您期望我們每個季度都會做的事情。但首先，我們認為這是一個巨大的收入成長加速機會，我們會確保在關注底線的同時，為其提供適當的資源。

Parker Lane, Stifel.

帕克巷，斯蒂費爾。

Thanks for taking the question. Can you hear me okay?

感謝您回答這個問題。你聽見我說話嗎？

Yeah.

是的。

Perfect. Jarrod, I was wondering if you could deconstruct the sequential decline that you're looking for to create a little bit more coming off a double-digit subscription growth there, strong industries momentum, pricing benefits, is it simply the nonstrategic revenues that are influencing that number down quarter-over-quarter? Or are there other things that we should be looking for that would explain that way?

完美的。賈羅德，我想知道您是否可以分析一下您所期待的連續下滑趨勢，以便在兩位數的訂閱量增長、強勁的行業發展勢頭和定價優勢的基礎上創造更多收益，這是否僅僅是非戰略性收入導致該數字逐季下降？或者我們應該尋找其他可以解釋這種情況的東西？

No, that's right, Parker. We experienced another quarter of strong double-digit subscription revenue growth. Industry continues to grow at an accelerated basis. If you think back to the fourth quarter, we had about $15 million of nonstrategic revenue that we disclosed. We also spoke about $30 million of nonstrategic revenue for the full year, so a bit of a step down from the run rate and you're really just seeing some of that come off the business in the second quarter.

不，沒錯，帕克。我們又經歷了一個季度的強勁兩位數訂閱營收成長。工業持續加速成長。如果回想一下第四季度，我們揭露的非策略性收入約為 1500 萬美元。我們還談到了全年 3000 萬美元的非策略性收入，因此與運行率相比略有下降，您實際上只會看到其中一部分來自第二季度的業務。

Got it. And Matt, maybe just to follow up on some earlier answers here. So it doesn't sound like there's a hard line in the sand for the transition away from the legacy models. Is that correct? You're kind of just waiting and seeing on the performance of Vector as opposed to setting that date that influencing the way you think about the cost structure in the second half?

知道了。馬特，也許只是想跟進一下之前的一些回答。因此，聽起來似乎沒有明確的界線來規定如何從傳統模式過渡。對嗎？您只是在等待並觀察 Vector 的表現，而不是設定影響您對下半年成本結構的看法的日期？

No, I wouldn't. Let me clarify that. This cutover means that we will no longer be running the two models in parallel. So we do -- we expect to see this -- some of this cloud costs come off in the back half of the year, you'll see effectively the additional cost that we're seeing. You'll see that come out. So that just -- I want to be super clear about that. Is it principally the cost piece that you're interested in?

不，我不會。讓我澄清一下。這次切換意味著我們將不再並行運行這兩個模型。所以我們確實——我們預計會看到這一點——部分雲端運算成本將在今年下半年下降，您將有效地看到我們所看到的額外成本。您會看到結果的。所以這只是——我想非常清楚地說明這一點。您主要感興趣的是成本部分嗎？

Yes. Just wondering if there's a specific date where you said this is when they'll no longer support (inaudible) the legacy models or if it's sort of a moving target based on the performance of Vector?

是的。只是想知道，是否有一個具體的日期，您說的是他們將不再支援（聽不清楚）舊型號，或者這是否是基於 Vector 性能的移動目標？

Yes. No, with the launch of factor that we've talked about today on the Unity ad network, we are now no longer running on legacy models.

是的。不，隨著我們今天在 Unity 廣告網路上討論的因素的推出，我們現在不再運行傳統模型。

Got it. Thanks for the clarification.

知道了。感謝您的澄清。

Clark Lampen, BTIG.

克拉克·蘭彭（Clark Lampen），BTIG。

Clark, do you hear us?

克拉克，你聽到我們說話了嗎？

Can you guys hear me?

你們聽得到我說話嗎？

Oh, now we got you.

噢，現在我們找到你了。

Yeah, sorry about that. I had two more on Vector. I'm just curious in Q1. Did you see any pressure on ironSource or Tapjoy or any of the legacy products or is that something where maybe you're anticipating for a different reason in Q2 that that's going to materialize or there's greater concentration of resources now around Vector?

是的，很抱歉。我在 Vector 上還有兩個。我只是對 Q1 感到好奇。您是否認為 ironSource 或 Tapjoy 或任何傳統產品面臨壓力？或者您是否因為其他原因而預期第二季會出現這種情況？或者現在 Vector 周圍的資源更加集中？

And then, Matt, going back to the comment you made around data and ROAS improvements. I'm curious if you could help us understand how the data flow is going to improve potentially as Vector continues to season and the model evolves? At one point, you guys had sort of talked to us generally about [prof stats] as a product. I'm curious if that's something that you guys have revisited or in the process of sort of introducing? And if so, could you give us a general sense for maybe what you'll have access to and how it could be accretive?

然後，馬特，回到你關於數據和 ROAS 改進的評論。我很好奇，您是否可以幫助我們了解隨著 Vector 的不斷發展和模型的演變，資料流將如何潛在地改善？有一次，你們曾與我們大致討論過有關 [prof stats] 這款產品。我很好奇這是你們重新審視過或正在介紹的事情嗎？如果是的話，您能否大致告訴我們您將能夠獲得哪些資源，以及這些資源將如何增值？

Yeah. Thanks, Clark. We appreciate the question. So let me take it one at a time. You're right. Your observation is correct. We are aggressively pushing resources into Vector, both from a go-to-market perspective as well as a technical perspective. And that does have some impact on the iAds business. In addition, again, the iAds business and the Unity ads business operates in a free marketplace with every other ad network in the world.

是的。謝謝，克拉克。我們很感謝你提出這個問題。因此，讓我逐一討論。你說得對。你的觀察是正確的。我們正在積極向 Vector 投入資源，無論是從市場進入的角度還是技術的角度。這確實對 iAds 業務產生了一定的影響。此外，iAds 業務和 Unity 廣告業務與世界上所有其他廣告網路在自由市場中運作。

And so we hope, in fact, to move some share both from iAds and we are seeing some of that. But we also, much more importantly, are expecting to move share from others as well. So -- and again, also as we provide more return, we expect overall expenditures to be up with us. So -- but there's no question that there is some movement inside those products inside our ad segment, absolutely.

因此，事實上，我們希望從 iAds 中轉移一些份額，而且我們已經看到了一些這樣的情況。但更重要的是，我們也期望從其他人轉移市場份額。所以 — — 而且，隨著我們提供更多的回報，我們預期整體支出也會隨之增加。所以——但毫無疑問，我們的廣告領域中的這些產品確實存在一些動向。

In terms of your second question, you'll begin to see from us beginning in the back half of the year, but then continuing onward, a real focus on trying to bring to bear the additional insights that we have into consumer behavior on our platform and to bring that value to bear, not just for our advertising customers, but also for customers of our editor and engine.

關於您的第二個問題，從今年下半年開始，您將看到我們開始真正專注於嘗試利用我們對平台上消費者行為的額外洞察，並帶來價值，不僅為我們的廣告客戶，也為我們的編輯和引擎的客戶。

And what I mean by that is the opportunity that we have to unlock across the company is this. We have billions of customers who interact on our platform. And we have not historically used that insight to develop really clear valuable insights at a consumer level as to who folks are and how they behave and to think about how we provide value back to our customers.

我的意思是，這是我們整個公司必須釋放的機會。我們有數十億客戶在我們的平台上互動。而我們過去從未利用這種洞察力在消費者層面獲得真正清晰、有價值的見解，例如了解消費者是誰、他們的行為方式，並思考如何為我們的客戶提供價值。

Just let me give you an example from the Create side and then we can move to the Grow side. The vast majority of our big customers are operating live services with us, right? There's [user] games with millions of players. And we can provide much greater insight to them on behavior of those players, how they're passing through the game, what they are the spending, why things are crashing, why the game might be performing better in one geography than another?

我先從「創造」方面給你一個例子，然後我們就可以轉到「成長」方面。我們絕大多數的大客戶都是跟我們一起經營線上服務的吧？有擁有數百萬玩家的[使用者]遊戲。我們可以為他們提供更多關於這些玩家行為的洞察，他們如何在遊戲中體驗，他們的花費是多少，為什麼遊戲會崩潰，為什麼遊戲在一個地區的表現會比另一個地區更好？

All these insights that we have not yet begun to package and offer back to our customers. Again, that's an example on the Create side that is going to enable them to fully optimize the live services that they're making with us.

所有這些見解我們尚未開始打包並回饋給我們的客戶。再次強調，這是 Create 方面的一個例子，它將使他們能夠充分優化與我們一起製作的即時服務。

At the same time, on the Grow side, those insights and that understanding of live players obviously has an impact -- potential impact on understanding how to better and more efficiently acquire the right kinds of players who are going to be happy inside the game that you're building, and we're going to convert well and engage and spend over time.

同時，在 Grow 方面，這些見解和對現場玩家的理解顯然會產生影響——對理解如何更好、更有效地獲取合適的玩家類型有潛在的影響，這些玩家會在你正在構建的遊戲中感到快樂，並且我們會很好地轉換、參與並隨著時間的推移而消費。

This is sort of a fundamental wellspring of insight that historically, we've not brought to bear on either side of our business. It is our primary strategy. Again, you'll start to see this in the back half of the year, but it will be the work of the next several years in total. It's our primary strategy to deliver that value, which we think nobody else in the world can do back to our customers.

這是一種基本的洞察力源泉，從歷史上看，我們並沒有將其運用到我們業務的任何方面。這是我們的首要策略。再次，你會在今年下半年開始看到這一點，但總的來說這將是未來幾年的工作。傳遞這種價值是我們的主要策略，我們認為世界上沒有其他人能夠做到這一點來回饋我們的客戶。

Thanks very much.

非常感謝。

Chris Kuntarich, UBS.

瑞銀的 Chris Kuntarich。

Just want to go back to Vector here and how it's going to play with ironSource specifically. Curious if this better-than-expected progress that you're seeing today has changed how you're philosophically thinking about the need for ironSource ad network?

我只想回到 Vector 以及它具體如何與 ironSource 配合使用。好奇您今天看到的這種好於預期的進展是否改變了您對 ironSource 廣告網路需求的哲學思考？

Yeah. So let me back up and offer a little bit of context. We're in the market with both our ad networks, the Unity ad network and the ironSource ad network and they are different and they offer different value to different kinds of customers. So on any one individual geography or genre of game or actual game, you will see different performance across different networks. And that's true not just of our network, but with all the networks in the marketplace.

是的。因此，請允許我回顧並提供一些背景資訊。我們在市場上擁有自己的廣告網絡，Unity廣告網絡和ironSource廣告網絡，它們各有不同，為不同類型的客戶提供不同的價值。因此，對於任何單獨的地理位置或遊戲類型或實際遊戲，您都會看到不同網路的不同表現。這不僅適用於我們的網絡，也適用於市場上的所有網路。

So we're currently really happy and really proud of the ironSource team and the network in terms of the value they're providing. And we're out in the marketplace offering both products to customers, and we continue -- we plan to continue to do that.

因此，就 ironSource 團隊和網路所提供的價值而言，我們目前感到非常高興和自豪。我們在市場上向客戶提供這兩種產品，我們將繼續進行—我們計劃繼續這樣做。

And so I wouldn't think of this kind of as a zero-sum game in the world between the two networks that we own. I just -- I don't know that that's really the way this marketplace plays out. We want all our networks to perform the best they possibly can and then customers will move spend accordingly across the whole marketplace.

因此，我不會認為這是我們所擁有的兩個網路之間的零和遊戲。我只是——我不知道這個市場實際上是如何運作的。我們希望我們所有的網路都能發揮最佳效能，然後客戶就會相應地在整個市場上轉移支出。

So we're going to continue to operate in that way. As I said, we have four or five different ad products. They have -- they provide different value to different sets of customers, and we're going to keep selling those products really aggressively and happily.

因此我們將繼續以這種方式運作。正如我所說，我們有四、五種不同的廣告產品。他們為不同的客戶群提供不同的價值，我們將繼續積極且愉快地銷售這些產品。

Got it. And maybe just one follow up on gross margin. If I heard you correctly, you will be sunsetting the legacy Unity model here. So you're going to be running on one model through the entirety of 2Q, are there any puts and takes with some of the nonstrategic revenue that's going to be coming off in 2Q that would cause gross margin to be down sequentially from 1Q?

知道了。也許只需要跟進一次毛利率。如果我沒聽錯的話，你將會在這裡淘汰傳統的 Unity 模式。因此，您將在整個第二季度採用一種模式，第二季度的非策略性收入是否存在任何損失，從而導致毛利率較第一季環比下降？

No, I don't think there's anything that we'd expect in that regard, Chris. I think we should expect a relatively stable gross margins into the second quarter, and I think there's no reason why the trajectory of our EBITDA shouldn't be stable to our current EBITDA performance in the first quarter.

不，我認為我們在這方面沒有什麼可期待的，克里斯。我認為我們應該預期第二季的毛利率會相對穩定，而且我認為我們的 EBITDA 走勢沒有理由不能與第一季的當前 EBITDA 表現保持穩定。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

David Mak, Arete Research.

Arete Research 的 David Mak。

Hi, thanks for taking my question. Just one more on Vector from me. Just really to drill into the detail on the timeline of these new Vector-powered DSP products, is there a reason why there's no discernible financial impact quite yet? Maybe due to advertisers still testing, dipping their toes, needing sales support, for example, or is it more the case that these models still need to improve further to be truly competitive on, say, a row as basis versus the other offerings out there? And I have a short one for Jarrod as well after that.

你好，謝謝你回答我的問題。我再說一個關於 Vector 的事情。只是深入了解這些新的 Vector 驅動的 DSP 產品的時間軸細節，為什麼目前還沒有明顯的財務影響？可能是因為廣告主仍在測試、試水、需要銷售支持，還是這些模型仍需要進一步改進才能真正具有競爭力，例如在與其他產品競爭的基礎上？之後我還為賈羅德 (Jarrod) 準備了一個簡短的。

Hi, David, thanks for your call. No, listen, I think it's just two things. One, it's still very early for us. So we've literally just launched these new models, and we're just rolling them out to customers. But -- and so there's a timing element here.

你好，大衛，謝謝你的來電。不，聽著，我認為這只是兩件事。第一，對我們來說還為時過早。因此，我們實際上剛剛推出了這些新車型，並將它們推向客戶。但是——這裡有一個時間因素。

But to be really clear, we are already seeing better ROAS, as I said. We're seeing more installs. We're seeing more scale and our advertisers are seeing better returns. But we're just at the beginning of bringing this to market. So there is a timing element as well.

但要真正明確的是，正如我所說，我們已經看到了更好的 ROAS。我們看到了更多的安裝。我們的規模越來越大，我們的廣告商也獲得了更好的回報。但我們才剛開始將其推向市場。因此其中也存在時間因素。

And then the second element is really just -- and we've talked about it a couple of times over the last few minutes is, there is -- there are some internal puts and takes on the new Unity ad network versus the ironSource ad network as we've identified and we're investing really aggressively. And so we're going to see some movements there. And so it's really timing and some of the internal revenue mix that is masking some of that upside at this stage.

然後第二個要素實際上只是——我們在過去幾分鐘內已經討論過幾次了，那就是——我們已經確定，新的 Unity 廣告網絡與 ironSource 廣告網絡存在一些內部分歧，我們正在積極投資。因此我們將會看到那裡的一些動靜。因此，目前時機和一些內部收入組合掩蓋了部分上行潛力。

Great. Thanks And just the one for Jarrod is just, are we able to just quantify the nonstrategic revenue in the first quarter across Create and Grow? And then what is embedded for each of those in the 2Q guidance? I think you mentioned $30 million for 2025. Is this mostly in Q1 and then trailing off after that, that would be helpful?

偉大的。謝謝。對 Jarrod 來說，我們能否量化第一季「創造與成長」的非策略性收入？那麼，第二季指引中針對每個內容都嵌入了什麼內容呢？我想你提到了 2025 年的 3000 萬美元。這主要發生在第一季度，之後逐漸減少，這會有幫助嗎？

Yeah, David, there was about $17 million of nonstrategic revenue in the first quarter, and our expectation of $30 million for the full year is consistent. And so yes, there will be a trail off in Q2 and beyond, and we'll see a bit of a step down in that regard. And I think the good news is that this has now become a small part of our revenues. It's under 2% of the company's total revenues. So it gives us the opportunity to be a little bit more clear and transparent and straightforward in our disclosures and really just talk about total revenue and growth in Create and Grow.

是的，大衛，第一季的非策略性收入約為 1700 萬美元，我們預計全年非策略性收入為 3000 萬美元，這是一致的。所以是的，第二季及以後會出現下滑，我們會看到這方面的下降。我認為好消息是，這現在已經成為我們收入的一小部分。這不到公司總收入的2%。因此，它使我們有機會在資訊揭露中更加清晰、透明和直接，並且真正談論創造和成長中的總收入和成長。

Great. Thanks very much. Thanks, Alex. Welcome as well.

偉大的。非常感謝。謝謝，亞歷克斯。也歡迎你。

Thanks, David.

謝謝，大衛。

Martin Yang, Oppenheimer.

馬丁楊，奧本海默。

Thank you for taking you my question. My question is about subscription growth trends. Can you maybe talk about how subscription revenue was trending on a sequential basis? And how do you see the key drivers for subscription revenue overall in 2025 both on the user and user per revenue perspective?

感謝您回答我的問題。我的問題是關於訂閱成長趨勢。能否談談訂閱收入的連續趨勢如何？從用戶和用戶單位收入的角度來看，您如何看待 2025 年整體訂閱收入的主要驅動因素？

Sure, Martin. Thank you so much for your question. So subscription revenue growth in the first quarter was 13% year over year. So another double-digit growth quarter for us. We feel really great about the trajectory. There are several tailwinds that are driving that subscription growth. I think, number one, you've heard about some of our success in the industry segment.

當然，馬丁。非常感謝您的提問。因此第一季的訂閱收入年增了 13%。因此我們又實現了兩位數的成長。我們對這個軌跡感到非常滿意。推動訂閱量成長的因素有幾個。我想，首先，您已經聽說過我們在行業領域取得的一些成功。

Matt spoke about some of the new customer wins in areas outside of gaming. So we're seeing a lot of new seat growth and expansion in that area. We have very good efforts across the company in order to ensure that we are executing on our strategy around price improvements, and we're seeing that start to flow through the P&L.

馬特談到了遊戲以外領域贏得的一些新客戶。因此，我們看到該地區新座位數量大量增長和擴張。我們整個公司都做出了很大的努力，以確保我們執行價格改進策略，並且我們看到這項策略開始在損益表中發揮作用。

That will be a bit of a waterfall. And so the impact of those price improvements will increase over the course of the year, and we'll continue to benefit from that. But I think broadly speaking, we feel really good about subscription being 80% of our Create segment at this point and getting larger that over time, there's the ability to achieve consistent double-digit growth in Create.

那將會是一個瀑布。因此，這些價格改善的影響將會在一年內不斷增加，我們也將繼續從中受益。但我認為，從總體上講，我們對目前訂閱佔 Create 細分市場的 80% 感到非常滿意，並且隨著時間的推移，訂閱量會越來越大，Create 有能力實現持續的兩位數增長。

Thank you. That's it for me.

謝謝。對我來說就是這樣。

Alec Brondolo, Wells Fargo.

富國銀行的亞歷克·布朗多洛。

Hey, thanks. Can you hear me okay?

嘿，謝謝。你聽見我說話嗎？

Yeah, we can hear you.

是的，我們能聽到你的聲音。

Yeah. So maybe first, I would like to ask what percent of Grow revenue Unity ad network represents? I think what you guys are describing is there's a little bit of noise as Vector improves the performance of the Unity ad network, but there's a little bit of noise as kind of maybe ironSource [seed] some shares, some of the other products fall off. Is there any kind of rough math or rough mix you could give us to help us understand what percent of the base Vector might be impacting?

是的。因此，首先我想問 Unity 廣告網路佔 Grow 收入的百分之多少？我認為你們所描述的是，隨著 Vector 提高 Unity 廣告網路的效能，會出現一些噪音，但也會出現一些噪音，因為可能是 ironSource [seed] 的一些份額，其他一些產品的份額下降。您能否提供一些粗略的數學或粗略的混合數據來幫助我們了解基本向量的百分比可能會產生影響？

Yeah. So Alec, while we're not breaking down into more granularity, sort of the individual reporting areas of Create and Grow, what we can say is that Unity Vector is, by far, the largest ad product that we have in that growth segment. And we have a number of other ad products that are meaningfully smaller than that. So this is impacting a very substantial portion of the revenues. And that's why it's garnering the heavy investment that we're making.

是的。因此，亞歷克，雖然我們沒有細分為更細緻的創建和成長的各個報告領域，但我們可以說，Unity Vector 是迄今為止我們在該成長領域中最大的廣告產品。我們還有許多其他比這小得多的廣告產品。因此這對很大一部分收入產生了影響。這就是我們投入大量資金的原因。

What I would also add is this investment that we're making in Unity Vector and this capability that we've developed in machine learning is going to benefit all of the Unity ad products and Grow products over time. And there's a tremendous opportunity to leverage some of the intellectual property and the capabilities that we've developed. And so we are focused on what is the largest area in our growth segment with the most growth potential, but we expect that to eventually trickle down and benefit the growth segment in its entirety.

我還要補充的是，我們對 Unity Vector 的投資以及我們在機器學習方面開發的功能將隨著時間的推移使所有 Unity 廣告產品和 Grow 產品受益。這是一個巨大的機會，可以利用我們開發的一些智慧財產權和能力。因此，我們專注於成長領域中最具成長潛力的最大領域，但我們預計這最終將惠及整個成長領域。

If I can maybe follow up on that point, I guess it's clear that the first priority here was improving the performance of Unity ads on the demand side. Could you maybe help us think about where level play, where mediation kind of falls on your list of priorities for the business, Matt? Is that something that maybe you want to improve in '25? Is that more of a medium term story? Any feedback that would be helpful?

如果我可以繼續討論這一點，我想很明顯這裡的首要任務是提高 Unity 廣告在需求方面的表現。馬特，您能否幫助我們思考一下公平競爭和調解在您的業務優先事項中處於什麼位置？這是否是您想要在 25 年改進的事情？這更像是中期的故事嗎？有任何有用的回饋嗎？

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for the question. To your point, our primary focus is on improving user acquisition, both because we think that's the largest opportunity for us in the immediate and the long term, but also because strength in mediation is often a function of strength in the user acquisition. So it's clearly the best place to start. But secondarily, I would say that we don't view [mediation] as strategic as maybe some other folks in the market do.

是的，絕對是如此。謝謝你的提問。正如您所說，我們的主要重點是提高用戶獲取率，因為我們認為這是我們目前和長期最大的機會，而且因為中介實力通常取決於用戶獲取能力。所以這顯然是最好的起點。但其次，我想說，我們並不像市場上其他人那樣將[調解]視為具有戰略意義。

And the reason is really simple. As I've said many times before, we are not an ad network. We're a development platform. And we have first-party connections to customers and data. And so while mediation is helpful is not the only source of that insight for us. And so while we're proud of our product, and we're excited about how it's operating is perhaps less important to us than others. And as a consequence, we're really focused on the (inaudible) side.

原因其實很簡單。正如我之前多次說過的，我們不是一個廣告網路。我們是一個開發平台。我們與客戶和數據有第一方聯繫。因此，雖然調解很有幫助，但它並不是我們獲得這種洞察力的唯一來源。因此，雖然我們對自己的產品感到自豪，並且對它的運作方式感到興奮，但對我們來說，這可能不如對其他人那麼重要。因此，我們真正關注的是（聽不清楚）方面。

Perfect. Thank you so much.

完美的。太感謝了。

Bernie McTernan, Needham.

伯尼·麥克特南，尼德姆。

Thanks for taking the question. Just wanted to ask about -- just where the current performance of Vector rates relative to prior peak performance levels for the Unity and the ironSource ad networks? And I know it's a tough question, but how would you expect that 10% to 20% improvement to trend over time?

感謝您回答這個問題。只是想問一下——Vector 的當前效能相對於 Unity 和 ironSource 廣告網路之前的峰值效能水準而言如何？我知道這是一個很難回答的問題，但您認為 10% 到 20% 的改善會隨著時間的推移呈現怎樣的趨勢呢？

Yeah. I would -- thank you for the question. I'd say this, last weekend, we saw some of the peak days for ads spend that we've seen in many years. So just at a high level, the growth and the performance is encouraging, not just with respect to where we were yesterday or the day before, but overall in terms of the trajectory of our business. And can you repeat again the second part of the question? I'm sorry.

是的。我會——謝謝你的提問。我想說的是，上週末，我們經歷了多年來廣告支出的高峰。因此，從高層來看，成長和業績令人鼓舞，不僅與我們昨天或前天的情況相比，而且就我們業務的發展軌跡而言。您能再重複問題的第二部分嗎？對不起。

Oh, yeah, no, just the 15% to 20% improvement that you called out, how should we expect that to trend over time? You called out marrying more of the data between Create and Grow. Just how should we expect that improvement?

哦，是的，不，只是您所說的 15% 到 20% 的改善，我們應該如何預期這種趨勢會隨著時間的推移而變化？您呼籲將更多「創建」和「成長」之間的數據結合起來。我們究竟該如何期待這種改善？

Yeah, and listen -- I mentioned this a little bit earlier but it bears repeating. We are so much at the very beginning of this process. I mean, keep in mind, what I'm literally saying to you is we just launched this product. So the fact that we're -- and by the way, we would have launched the product, if all it did was provide the same performance.

是的，聽著——我之前提到過這一點，但值得重複一遍。我們正處於這一進程的開始階段。我的意思是，請記住，我實際上要告訴你的是，我們剛剛推出了這款產品。事實是，如果該產品能夠提供相同的性能，我們就會推出它。

We still would have launched it because we would have wanted to begin learning as quickly as possible and because it's more efficient from a cost perspective. So that was one possible outcome here. Instead, what we're seeing is much greater than expected performance, even really early on. But this business -- the nature of this business is daily learning that goes on forever.

我們仍然會推出它，因為我們希望盡快開始學習，並且從成本角度來看它更有效率。這是一種可能的結果。相反，我們看到的表現遠遠超出了預期，甚至在早期也是如此。但這個行業——這個行業的本質是永無止境的日常學習。

So I would -- I hope that this is -- as we pull back the camera over time, this will be the low point of the performance of this business. It's certainly our intention. And as I said, particularly with respect to some of the larger and more strategic opportunities we have that we've not yet brought to bear, we think there's a real -- we think there is a really exciting long-term opportunity here.

所以我希望——隨著時間的推移，當我們把鏡頭拉遠時，這將是這項業務表現的低潮。這當然是我們的意圖。正如我所說，特別是對於我們尚未實現的一些更大、更具策略性的機遇，我們認為這是一個真正的——我們認為這是一個真正令人興奮的長期機會。

Great. And just one follow up if I could, just -- we know performance marketing budgets can shift quickly and publishers are constantly evaluating, but that evaluation time, like, are we talking like days or weeks, just trying to get a sense given the platform is so new, kind of what the evaluation period that is on the other side.

偉大的。如果可以的話，我只想問一個問題——我們知道績效行銷預算可能會快速變化，並且出版商也在不斷評估，但評估時間，比如，我們說的是幾天還是幾週，只是想了解一下，考慮到這個平台還很新，另一邊的評估期是什麼樣的。

It depends on the nature of the advertiser. I think it's important to remember for us that the vast majority of our advertisers are game publishers and developers who are purchasing based on return on advertising spend in their games. And different publishers have different time horizons that they're optimizing for. But these are long-term return-based advertisers. And I wouldn't expect that when you see shifts, you're going to see them immediately or sharply.

這取決於廣告商的性質。我認為我們必須記住，我們的絕大多數廣告商都是遊戲發行商和開發商，他們根據遊戲廣告支出的回報進行購買。不同的出版商有不同的最佳化時間範圍。但這些都是基於長期回報的廣告商。而且我不會期望當你看到轉變時，你會立即或急劇地看到它們。

Got it. Thanks, Matt.

知道了。謝謝，馬特。

Faith Brunner, William Blair.

費絲布倫納、威廉布萊爾。

Kind of like diving deeper on what you just said. But looking at your advertiser base, so you mentioned that those budgets don't really move the same way we would expect typical brand advisers. So any additional color you can add on the spending behavior and potential downtimes and then maybe how Vector layer is an additional durability into that spend given the ROI you're seeing?

有點像是深入探討你剛才所說的話。但是看看您的廣告客戶群，您提到這些預算的變動方式實際上並不像我們預期的典型的品牌顧問那樣。那麼，您可以在消費行為和潛在停機時間上添加任何額外的顏色，然後也許根據您所看到的投資回報率，向量圖層如何為該支出增加額外的耐用性？

Yeah, absolutely. Here's the thing -- and I -- and believe me, I understand as well as the next person, some of the disruptions and frictions in the macro marketplace. The -- for us, our performance is going to be principally driven by the quality of our execution. We're not generally speaking moving up and down with macroeconomic trends. That's just not where we are as a business right now.

是的，絕對是如此。事情是這樣的——相信我，我和其他人一樣了解宏觀市場中的一些混亂和摩擦。對我們來說，我們的表現主要取決於我們的執行品質。一般來說，我們不會隨著宏觀經濟趨勢而上下波動。我們現在的業務狀況還不是這樣。

So I can tell you that when we provide meaningfully and markedly better performance, we see increased advertisers spend. As we increase that performance, we will see more advertisers spend. That's my expectation. We're seeing -- we're already seeing that across a broad base of our customers. It's something that we've been seeing over the prior weeks, right in the midst of, again, of all this macroeconomic uncertainty and friction.

因此我可以告訴你，當我們提供顯著更好的表現時，我們會看到廣告商的支出增加。隨著我們提高業績，我們將看到更多的廣告商投入資金。這是我的期望。我們看到——我們已經在廣大客戶中看到了這一點。這是我們在過去幾週內已經看到的情況，當時正值宏觀經濟充滿不確定性和摩擦的時期。

So that's the beauty of what we do is if we deliver, we'll -- customers can see that, they can see it very quickly, and we expect over time for that to trend up.

所以，我們所做的事情的美妙之處在於，如果我們交付了產品，客戶就可以看到這一點，他們可以很快看到這一點，並且我們預計隨著時間的推移，這種趨勢會上升。

All right, great. Thank you, guys.

好的，太好了。謝謝你們。

Thanks, Faith. With that, we'll wrap up today's call. We want to thank everyone for joining this morning, and we look forward to connecting with you all in the coming days and weeks. Have a great day.

謝謝，費思。今天的電話會議就到此結束。我們要感謝大家今天上午的參加，並期待在未來幾天和幾週內與大家聯繫。祝你有美好的一天。