Two Harbors Investment Corp (TWO) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning. My name is Jennifer, and I will be your conference facilitator. At this time, I'd like to welcome everyone to Two's Second Quarter 2025 Earnings Call. (Operator Instructions). I would now like to turn the call over to Ms. Maggie Karr.

早安.我叫詹妮弗，我將擔任您的會議主持人。現在，我歡迎大家參加 Two 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。（操作員指令）。現在我想把電話轉給瑪姬·卡爾女士。

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to our call to discuss TWO's Second Quarter 2025 financial results. With me on the call this morning are Bill Greenberg, our President and Chief Executive Officer; Nick Letica, our Chief Investment Officer and William Dellal, our Chief Financial Officer.

大家早安，歡迎參加我們的電話會議，討論 TWO 2025 年第二季的財務表現。今天早上與我一起參加電話會議的有我們的總裁兼首席執行官比爾·格林伯格 (Bill Greenberg)、我們的首席投資官尼克·萊蒂卡 (Nick Letica) 和我們的首席財務官威廉·德拉爾 (William Dellal)。

The earnings press release and presentation associated with today's call have been filed with the SEC and are available on the SEC's website as well as the Investor Relations page of our website at 2inv.com. In our earnings release and presentation, we have provided reconciliations of GAAP to non-GAAP financial measures, and we urge you to review this information in conjunction with today's call.

與今日電話會議相關的收益新聞稿和簡報已提交至美國證券交易委員會 (SEC)，並可在美國證券交易委員會網站以及我們網站 2inv.com 的投資者關係頁面查閱。在我們的收益新聞稿和簡報中，我們提供了 GAAP 與非 GAAP 財務指標的對帳表，建議您在參加今日電話會議時一併查看這些資訊。

As a reminder, our comments today will include forward-looking statements, which are subject to risks and uncertainties that may cause our results to differ materially from expectations. These are described on page two of the presentation and in our Form 10-K and subsequent reports filed with the SEC. Except as may be required by law, to does not update forward-looking statements and disclaims any obligation to do so.

提醒一下，我們今天的評論將包括前瞻性陳述，這些陳述受風險和不確定性的影響，這可能導致我們的結果與預期有重大差異。這些內容在簡報的第二頁以及我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的 10-K 表格和後續報告中進行了描述。除法律另有要求外，不會更新前瞻性陳述，且不承擔任何更新前瞻性陳述的義務。

I will now turn the call over to Bill.

我現在將電話轉給比爾。

Thank you, Maggie. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to our second quarter earnings call. Please turn to slide three. Fixed Income and equity markets proved resilient in the second quarter rebounding from poor performance in early April as the uncertainty of fluctuating tariff and trade policies royal markets, spiking the [VIX] Index to a multiyear high.

謝謝你，瑪吉。大家早安，歡迎參加我們的第二季財報電話會議。請翻到第三張幻燈片。固定收益市場和股票市場在第二季度表現出韌性，從 4 月初的糟糕表現中反彈，因為波動的關稅和貿易政策的不確定性衝擊了市場，導致 [VIX] 指數飆升至多年來的最高點。

As the quarter progressed, the tariff tension eased and the macro environment recovered steadily, leading the S&P to a record high and a significant recovery in the performance of Agency RMBS spreads. We remain disciplined in our approach to risk keeping our interest rate and spread exposures low across the curve. We utilized leverage judiciously and preserved ample liquidity, which allowed us to navigate these periods of heightened market volatility not seen since last October.

隨著本季的進展，關稅緊張局勢有所緩解，宏觀環境穩定復甦，帶動標普500指數創下歷史新高，機構RMBS利差表現也顯著回升。我們始終堅持嚴謹的風險處理方式，以維持利率和利差敞口處於低位。我們明智地利用了槓桿並保留了充足的流動性，這使我們能夠度過自去年十月以來從未見過的市場波動加劇時期。

For the second quarter, including the loss contingency accrual of $1.92 per share, we experienced a total economic return of negative 14.5% and minus 1.4% without the accrual. For the first half of the year, this results in a total economic return on book value of negative 10.3% and 2.9%, excluding the accrual.

第二季度，包括每股 1.92 美元的損失或有費用，我們的總經濟回報率為負 14.5%，不計該損失或有費用則為負 1.4%。就上半年而言，這導致帳面價值總經濟回報率為-10.3%，不包括應計費用則為2.9%。

Please turn to slide four. The 10-year US Treasury rates ultimately settled near where it began the quarter, as you can see in Figure one, but not before moving through a wide range from a low of 3.85% in early April to a high of 4.62% in late May. The spread between 10-year and two year US treasuries widened to 51 basis points, creating a steeper curve that continues to support attractive opportunities for RMBS and MSR portfolios.

請翻到第四張投影片。如圖一所示，10 年期美國國債利率最終穩定在本季度初的水平附近，但在此之前，利率經歷了從 4 月初 3.85% 的低點到 5 月底 4.62% 的高點的大幅波動。10 年期和 2 年期美國國債之間的利差擴大至 51 個基點，形成了更陡峭的曲線，繼續為 RMBS 和 MSR 投資組合提供有吸引力的機會。

In this environment, we believe returns are compelling, and we expect further strengthening of the supply demand dynamic potentially leading to spread tightening. Mortgage rates generally track the treasury rate environment moving higher in April and May before stabilizing in June.

在這種環境下，我們相信回報是引人注目的，我們預計供需動態將進一步加強，這可能導致利差收緊。抵押貸款利率通常跟隨國債利率環境，在 4 月和 5 月走高，然後在 6 月趨於穩定。

The 30-year fixed rate mortgage rose from 6.6% at its low to a high near 6.9%, ending the quarter in the 6.7% to 6.8% range. While still high by recent COVID era standards, rates remained below their 2023 peak levels, which has helped housing activity remain reasonably well supported. The Federal Reserve maintained its cautious stance and left rates unchanged even in the face of increases in inflation and mounting political pressures.

30 年期固定利率抵押貸款從最低的 6.6% 上升至接近 6.9% 的高點，本季末的利率在 6.7% 至 6.8% 之間。儘管以近期新冠疫情時期的標準來看利率仍然較高，但仍低於 2023 年的峰值水平，這有助於住房活動獲得相當好的支持。即使面對通膨上升和政治壓力不斷加大，聯準會仍保持謹慎立場，維持利率不變。

Several members of the FOMC have suggested one to two rate cuts likely occurring later this year, and the market similarly projects 50 basis points to 75 basis points of cuts in the second half of 2025, as you can see in the blue line in Figure two. If the Fed does indeed cut rates in the latter half of this year, we expect RMBS and MSR portfolios to respond positively. With the majority of our MSR portfolio still more than 300 basis points away from the refinancing window, we do not expect a few cuts in the front end of the yield curve to materially alter mortgage rates or prepayments.

幾位聯邦公開市場委員會成員表示，今年稍後可能會降息一到兩次，市場同樣預測 2025 年下半年將降息 50 到 75 個基點，如圖二中的藍線所示。如果聯準會確實在今年下半年降息，我們預計 RMBS 和 MSR 投資組合將做出積極反應。由於我們的 MSR 投資組合中的大部分債券距離再融資窗口仍有 300 多個基點的差距，我們預計殖利率曲線前端的幾次下調不會實質地改變抵押貸款利率或預付款。

We are strengthening our direct-to-consumer originations platform at RoundPoint, consistent with the market opportunity in order to recapture loans in our portfolio that may refinance. Please turn to slide five. In the second quarter, we funded $48 million UPB in first liens, up from $29 million UPB in the first quarter. Although starting from a low base, this increase of 68% outpaced the overall trend in mortgage originations, which saw funded loans rising nationwide 16% quarter-over-quarter.

我們正在加強 RoundPoint 的直接面向消費者的發起平台，以順應市場機遇，重新獲得我們投資組合中可能再融資的貸款。請翻到第五張投影片。在第二季度，我們為第一留置權的 UPB 提供了 4,800 萬美元的資金，高於第一季的 2,900 萬美元。儘管起點較低，但 68% 的增幅超過了抵押貸款發放的總體趨勢，全國範圍內的貸款發放量環比增長了 16%。

We are encouraged by the growth in our first lien originations despite the fact that most of our portfolio does not have an economic incentive to move or refinance. Additionally, we continue to actively market second liens to our servicing customers to help them extract home equity most efficiently. We brokered $44 million UPB in second liens in the quarter, and we have begun originating second liens in our own name, which we can ultimately choose to hold, sell or securitize.

儘管我們的大部分投資組合沒有轉移或再融資的經濟動機，但我們對第一留置權發起的成長感到鼓舞。此外，我們繼續積極向服務客戶推銷第二留置權，以幫助他們最有效地提取房屋淨值。我們在本季促成了價值 4,400 萬美元的第二留置權 UPB，並且我們已經開始以自己的名義發起第二留置權，我們最終可以選擇持有、出售或證券化。

This activity not only increases revenue and improves recapture rates, but we have also noticed significantly slower prepayments for MSR borrowers who have second liens on top of their first. Please turn to slide six. I'd like to mention some of the really interesting things we are doing in technology in order to increase efficiencies, reduce costs and most importantly, create better homeowner experiences.

這項活動不僅增加了收入並提高了回收率，而且我們還注意到，對於在第一留置權之上擁有第二留置權的 MSR 借款人來說，預付款的速度明顯變慢。請翻到第六張幻燈片。我想提一下我們在科技方面所做的一些真正有趣的事情，以提高效率、降低成本，最重要的是創造更好的房主體驗。

We are not alone in seeing the large opportunity that AI technologies can bring to the servicing and origination businesses, and we are making significant investments in time and resources in order to achieve the benefits that these technologies promise. Our initial focus has been within our contact center, and we are currently implementing AI in many areas across the platform. We use human emulation bots to move data across applications and to perform other repetitive tasks.

我們並不是唯一看到人工智慧技術能為服務和發起業務帶來巨大機會的人，我們正在投入大量的時間和資源，以實現這些技術所承諾的利益。我們最初的重點是聯絡中心，目前我們正在平台的許多領域實施人工智慧。我們使用人類模擬機器人在應用程式之間移動數據並執行其他重複性任務。

Image recognition utilizes OCR technologies to help perform data validation. Each recognition applications allow us to perform comprehensive analysis and statistics on our customer service calls. And we are using generative AI technology to create automatic call summaries, which saves significant time for our contact center employees while improving accuracy.

影像辨識利用 OCR 技術來幫助執行資料驗證。每個識別應用程式都使我們能夠對客戶服務電話進行全面的分析和統計。我們正在使用生成式人工智慧技術來建立自動呼叫摘要，這為我們的聯絡中心員工節省了大量時間，同時提高了準確性。

Conversational AI, which we are just beginning to explore includes allowing customers to interact more fully with customized AI interfaces for simple situations and calling in live people for more complex problems. As we look towards the future, we are also actively evaluating the application of AI on the origination side to automate the application and fulfillment process.

我們剛開始探索的對話式人工智慧包括允許客戶在簡單情況下與定制的人工智慧介面進行更充分的交互，並在更複雜的問題上呼叫真人。展望未來，我們也積極評估人工智慧在發起方面的應用，以實現申請和履行流程的自動化。

I'd like to say that AI is just the newest form of technology, and we know that this technology is integral to success in operating our business going forward. Looking ahead, we believe the combination of our investment portfolio and operating company allows us to be dynamic and responsive as opportunities emerge across the mortgage finance space.

我想說，人工智慧只是最新的技術形式，我們知道這項技術對於我們未來業務的成功運作至關重要。展望未來，我們相信，隨著抵押貸款融資領域出現新的機遇，我們的投資組合和營運公司的結合將使我們能夠保持活力和敏捷反應。

Given the strength of our platform and the depth of experience across our team, we are confident in our ability to navigate and lead through changing market cycles, creating long-term value for our stockholders, customers and business partners.

鑑於我們平台的實力和團隊的豐富經驗，我們有信心能夠駕馭和引領不斷變化的市場週期，為我們的股東、客戶和業務合作夥伴創造長期價值。

With that, I'd like to hand the call over to William to discuss our financial results.

說完這些，我想把電話交給威廉來討論我們的財務結果。

Thank you, Bill. Thank you, Bill. Please turn to slide seven. As Bill mentioned, in the quarter, we took a loss contingency accrual of $199.9 million or $1.92 per share related to the ongoing litigation from the termination of our management agreement with PRCM Advisers in 2020. On May 23, the court rule let TWO Harbors did not have grounds to terminate its management agreement for cost.

謝謝你，比爾。謝謝你，比爾。請翻到第七張幻燈片。正如比爾所提到的，在本季度，我們提列了 1.999 億美元或每股 1.92 美元的意外損失，這與 2020 年我們與 PRCM Advisers 終止管理協議後持續存在的訴訟有關。5月23日，法院裁定TWO Harbors沒有理由因成本原因終止其管理協議。

And so we, in consultation with our independent accountants and legal advisers, determined that the loss was not probable and estimable under ASC 450, which is the accounting standard that governance loss contingencies. The amount of the loss contingency accrual is the same $140 million that we initially reserved in 2020, related to the nonrenewal of the management agreement.

因此，我們與獨立會計師和法律顧問協商後認定，根據管理損失或有事項的會計準則 ASC 450，該損失不可能發生且不可估計。損失應急準備金金額與我們最初在 2020 年預留的 1.4 億美元相同，與管理協議未續約有關。

Before reversing the accrual in connection with the subsequent termination for cars. The current accrual also includes an assumed statutory prejudgment interest at the simple rate of 9%. No other potential losses are probable or estimable at this time. We are waiting for a trial date to be set to resolve certain claims related to intellectual property, and all the issues of potential damages for the contract termination. The parties have also agreed to participate in voluntary mediation.

在撤銷與汽車後續終止相關的應計費用之前。當前應計費用還包括以 9% 的簡單利率計算的假定法定判決前利息。目前還不存在可能或可估計的其他潛在損失。我們正在等待確定審判日期，以解決與智慧財產權相關的某些索賠以及合約終止的潛在損害的所有問題。雙方也同意參加自願調解。

Including the accrual, the book value decreased to $12.14 per share, representing a negative 14.5% quarterly economic return. Excluding this accrual, our total quarterly economic return would have been negative 1.4%. Please turn to slide eight. Including the loss contingency accrual, the company incurred a comprehensive loss of $221.8 million or [$2.13] per share.

包括應計費用在內，帳面價值下降至每股 12.14 美元，相當於季度經濟回報率為負 14.5%。如果不計入這筆應計費用，我們本季的總經濟報酬率將為-1.4%。請翻到第八張幻燈片。如果計入損失或有費用，該公司的綜合虧損為 2.218 億美元，即每股虧損 2.13 美元。

Excluding the accrual, we would have incurred a comprehensive loss of $21.9 million or $0.21 per share. Net interest and servicing income which is the sum of GAAP net interest expense and net servicing income before operating costs was higher in the second quarter by $3.1 million, driven by an increase in our Agency RMBS portfolio and higher float income on MSR.

不包括應計費用，我們將遭受 2,190 萬美元或每股 0.21 美元的綜合損失。淨利息和服務收入是 GAAP 淨利息支出與扣除營運成本前的淨服務收入之和，第二季增加了 310 萬美元，這得益於我們的機構 RMBS 投資組合的增加和 MSR 浮動收入的增加。

This was partially offset by lower servicing fee income from MSR portfolio runoff, and slightly higher financing costs. Mark-to-market gains and losses were lower in the quarter by $93.4 million. As a reminder, this column represents the sum of investment securities, net gains and losses and change in OCI, net swap and other derivative gains and losses and net servicing asset gains and losses.

這被 MSR 投資組合流失帶來的服務費收入下降和融資成本略高所部分抵銷。本季以市價計算的損益下降了 9,340 萬美元。提醒一下，此欄位代表投資證券、淨損益及 OCI 變化、淨掉期和其他衍生性商品損益以及淨服務資產損益的總和。

In the second quarter, mark-to-market gains and losses were impacted by unfavourable market movements on MSR, swaps, TBAs and futures, partially offset by overall positive market movements on Agency RMBS. You can see the individual components of net interest and servicing income and mark-to-market gains and losses on the appendix slide 22.

第二季度，以市價計價的收益和損失受到 MSR、掉期、TBA 和期貨市場不利走勢的影響，但被機構 RMBS 市場整體積極走勢部分抵消。您可以在附錄投影片 22 上看到淨利息和服務收入以及按市價計價的損益的各個組成部分。

Please turn to slide nine. Our MBS funding markets remained stable and available throughout the quarter, was repurchased spreads around SOFR plus 20 basis points. At quarter end, our weighted average days to maturity for our Agency RMBS repo was 60 days. We issued a baby bond in the second quarter with the intention of using the proceeds in part for the refinancing or repayment of our 6.25% senior notes due in 2026.

請翻到第九張投影片。我們的 MBS 融資市場在整個季度保持穩定且可用，回購利差約為 SOFR 加 20 個基點。截至季末，我們的機構 RMBS 回購加權平均到期天數為 60 天。我們在第二季發行了一張小型債券，目的是將部分收益用於再融資或償還 2026 年到期的 6.25% 優先票據。

In total, we issued $115 million aggregate principal amount of [9 3/8%] senior notes that are due in 2030 and for net proceeds of $110.8 million. We financed our MSR, including the MSR asset and relate to servicing advance obligations across five lenders was $1.8 billion of outstanding borrowings under bilateral facilities. We ended the quarter with a total of $837 million in unused MSR asset financing capacity. Our servicing advances are fully financed, and we have an additional $61 million in available capacity.

整體而言，我們發行了本金總額為 1.15 億美元的 [9 3/8%] 優先票據，將於 2030 年到期，淨收益為 1.108 億美元。我們為 MSR 提供​​融資，包括 MSR 資產以及向五家貸款機構償還預付款義務，雙邊融資下的未償還借款總額為 18 億美元。截至本季末，我們未使用的 MSR 資產融資能力總計為 8.37 億美元。我們的服務預付款已全額融資，我們還有額外的 6,100 萬美元可用產能。

I will now turn the call over to Nick.

我現在將電話轉給尼克。

Thank you, William. Please turn to slide 10. Our portfolio on June 30 was $14.4 billion, including $11.4 billion in settle positions and $3 billion in TBAs. Our economic debt-to-equity increased to 7 times which includes the effect of the loss contingency accrual on our book value. We brought our debt to equity and mortgage spread risk down in early April in response to market volatility and spread winding. As volatility subsided, we brought our leverage and spread risk back up, and we feel comfortable with today's level given the attractive opportunities in both Agency RMBS and MSR spaces.

謝謝你，威廉。請翻到第 10 張投影片。截至 6 月 30 日，我們的投資組合為 144 億美元，其中包括 114 億美元的結算部位和 30 億美元的 TBA。我們的經濟債務與股權之比增加到 7 倍，其中包括損失或有事項對我們帳面價值的影響。為了因應市場波動和利差收縮，我們在 4 月初降低了負債權益差和抵押貸款利差風險。隨著波動性減弱，我們提高了槓桿率並提高了利差風險，考慮到機構 RMBS 和 MSR 領域都存在誘人的機會，我們對今天的水平感到滿意。

As you can see in figure two and three, we continue to manage our exposure to rates across the curve very closely. You can see more detail on our risk exposures on appendix slide 19. Please turn to slide 11. We Agency RMBS spreads to interest rate swaps widened meaningfully in April, tracking overall market volatility before retracing over the following two months.

正如您在圖二和圖三中看到的，我們繼續密切管理整個曲線的利率敞口。您可以在附錄投影片 19 中看到有關我們的風險敞口的更多詳細資訊。請翻到第 11 張投影片。我們機構的 RMBS 與利率互換利差在 4 月大幅擴大，跟隨整體市場波動，然後在接下來的兩個月內回落。

As shown in Figure one, our preferred volatility gauge, two year options on 10-year swap rates peaked at 104 basis points in mid-April and declined in the quarter at 94 basis points. points lower than the end of the first quarter. Hedged Agency RMBS performance varied across the coupon stack with higher coupons outperforming lower longer-duration coupons.

如圖一所示，我們首選的波動率指標是，10 年期掉期利率的兩年期選擇權在 4 月中旬達到 104 個基點的峰值，並在本季度下降了 94 個基點，比第一季末低了 104 個基點。對沖機構 RMBS 的表現在不同的票息組合中有所不同，較高票息的表現優於較低長期票息。

Current coupon nominal spreads widened by 3 basis points to 171, while option-adjusted spreads finished 12 basis points wider at 81 basis points, reflecting the drop in implied volatility. As you can see in Figure two, spreads across the curve, both nominally and on an option-adjusted basis shifted up with larger pickups in OAS. At quarter end, considering the drop in implied rate volatility and that mortgage spread volatility has fallen to its lowest level in the postcoiperiod. Spreads versus swaps looked and continue to look very attractive on a historical and return potential basis.

當前票面名目利差擴大 3 個基點至 171，而選擇權調整利差擴大 12 個基點至 81 個基點，反映出隱含波動率的下降。正如您在圖二中看到的，隨著 OAS 中拾取量的增加，曲線上的利差（無論是名義上的還是根據期權調整的）都上升了。季末，考慮到隱含利率波動率的下降，抵押貸款利差波動率已降至期後最低水準。從歷史和回報潛力來看，與掉期相比的利差看起來非常有吸引力，並將繼續保持這種吸引力。

Please turn to slide 12 to review our Agency RMBS portfolio. Figure one shows the hedge performance of TBAs and specified pools we own throughout this quarter. Higher coupons generally outperformed lower coupons and specified pools outperformed TBAs in the lower coupons, we owned, while 6% and 6.5% TBAs outperformed specified pools. We have seen some strength in higher coupon dollar roles, particularly in 6.5% fueled by historically strong demand for CMO floaters with CLO issuance accounting for over 85% of the net issuance in 6% and 6.5%.

請翻到第 12 張投影片來查看我們的機構 RMBS 投資組合。圖一顯示了我們本季擁有的 TBA 和指定資金池的避險表現。在我們持有的較低息票中，較高息票的表現通常優於較低息票，且指定池的表現優於 TBA，而 6% 和 6.5% TBA 的表現優於指定池。我們看到，高息債券在美元計價方面表現強勁，尤其是在 6.5% 利率下，這得益於對 CMO 浮動債券的歷史性強勁需求，其中 CLO 發行量佔 6% 和 6.5% 利率下淨發行量的 85% 以上。

On the margin, we shifted our exposure up in coupon in the quarter, which you can see in the appendix slide 18. We also increased our exposure to mortgage derivatives, which positively contributed to our performance. Figure two on the bottom right shows our specified pool prepayment speeds by coupon, which in aggregate increased from 7.4% to 8.6% CPR.

在保證金方面，我們在本季度提高了息票敞口，您可以在附錄幻燈片 18 中看到。我們也增加了對抵押貸款衍生性商品的投資，這對我們的業績產生了正面的影響。右下角的圖二顯示了我們按息票指定的池預付速度，總體而言從 7.4% 增加到 8.6% CPR。

Most of the coupons in the STACK experienced a mild absolute increase in speed, resulting from a pickup in turnover rates from seasonal factors. Higher coupons, particularly TBAs, displayed larger speed increases due to lower mortgage rates in March into early April. We observed fast processing speeds for agency collateral, reducing the lag time from application to closing. 6.5% TBAs in particular, showed a large pickup in speeds similar to the prepayment response we observed last fall when they briefly went in the money.

由於季節性因素導致周轉率上升，STACK 中的大部分優惠券的速度都出現了輕微的絕對增長。由於 3 月至 4 月初抵押貸款利率較低，較高息票（尤其是 TBA）的漲幅較大。我們觀察到代理抵押品的處理速度很快，減少了從申請到結束的延遲時間。特別是 6.5% 的 TBA，其速度大幅提升，類似於我們去年秋天觀察到的預付款反應，當時它們短暫地進入盈利狀態。

Please turn to slide 13. The MSR market remains very well supported with bank and nonbank servicers aggressively bidding for a declining amount of supply. As you can see in Figure one, the volume of MSR available in the bulk market has continued to trend lower from the peak years of 2022 and 2023 with supply about 30% lower year-over-year.

請翻到第 13 張投影片。由於銀行和非銀行服務商積極競標，MSR 市場仍然受到良好支持，供應量不斷減少。如圖一所示，散裝市場上可用的 MSR 數量從 2022 年和 2023 年的高峰開始持續下降，供應量較去年同期下降約 30%。

That said, we have still been able to find pockets of opportunity in the bulk market. Figure two is a chart that we periodically update for our earnings deck, which shows that with mortgage rates at their current level of around 6.75%, only 0.7% of our MSR portfolio is considered in the money.

儘管如此，我們仍然能夠在大宗市場中找到機會。圖二是我們定期更新的收益圖表，該圖表顯示，在抵押貸款利率目前約為 6.75% 的情況下，我們的 MSR 投資組合中只有 0.7% 被視為盈利。

If rates were to drop to around 5%, a portion of our portfolio and the money would rise to only about 8%. And Importantly, prepays have remained below our projections for the majority of our portfolio. Please turn to slide 14, where we will discuss our MSR portfolio. Figure one is an overview of our portfolio at quarter end, further details of which can be found on Appendix slide 25.

如果利率降至 5% 左右，我們的部分投資組合和資金將只上升至 8% 左右。重要的是，對於我們大部分投資組合而言，預付款仍低於我們的預期。請翻到第 14 張投影片，我們將討論我們的 MSR 產品組合。圖一是我們季度末投資組合的概覽，更多詳情請參閱附錄第 25 張投影片。

In the second quarter, we purchased $6.4 billion UPB of MSR through three bulk purchases. The price multiple of MSR was unchanged quarter-over-quarter at 5.9 times and 60-plus day delinquencies remained low at under 1%. Figure two compares CPRs across implied security coupons in our portfolio of MSR versus TBAs.

第二季度，我們透過三次批量採購，購買了價值 64 億美元的 MSR。MSR 的價格倍數與上一季相比沒有變化，為 5.9 倍，60 天以上的拖欠率仍保持在 1% 以下的低點。圖二比較了我們的 MSR 與 TBA 投資組合中隱含證券票面的 CPR。

Quarter-over-quarter, our MSR experienced a 1.6 percentage point pickup in prepayment rates to 5.8%. The increase was anticipated, owing to stronger seasonal factors, those at speed with slower than model expectations. Overall, prepayment rates on our low coupon MSR are expected to remain very slow on a historical basis. which will remain a tailwind for our portfolio.

與上一季相比，我們的 MSR 預付率上升了 1.6 個百分點，達到 5.8%。由於季節性因素影響較大，成長速度低於模型預期，因此這種成長是可以預料的。總體而言，從歷史數據來看，我們低利率 MSR 的預付利率預計將保持非常低的水平，這將繼續成為我們投資組合的順風。

Finally, please turn to slide 15, our return potential and outlook slide. This is a forward-looking projection of our expected portfolio returns, which contemplates the effect of the loss contingency accrual on our portfolio. As you can see on this slide, the top half of this table is meant to show what returns we believe are available on the assets in our portfolio.

最後，請翻到第 15 張投影片，也就是我們的回報潛力和展望幻燈片。這是我們對預期投資組合回報的前瞻性預測，其中考慮了損失或有事項對我們投資組合的影響。正如您在這張投影片上看到的，表格的上半部旨在顯示我們認為我們的投資組合中的資產可以獲得的回報。

We estimate that about 72% of our capital would be allocated to servicing with a static return projection of 11% to 14%. The remaining capital would be allocated to securities with a static return estimate of 12% to 17%. With our portfolio allocation shown in the top half of the table, and after expenses, the static return estimate for our portfolio would be between 8.8% to 12.1% before applying any capital structure leverage to the portfolio.

我們估計，約有 72% 的資本將用於服務，靜態回報率預計為 11% 至 14%。剩餘資金將配置於靜態回報率預計為 12% 至 17% 的證券。我們的投資組合分配顯示在表格的上半部分，扣除費用後，在對投資組合應用任何資本結構槓桿之前，我們的投資組合的靜態回報估計將在 8.8% 到 12.1% 之間。

After giving effect to our unsecured notes and preferred stock, we believe that the potential static return on common equity falls in the range of 9.4% to 15.3%, or a prospective quarterly static return per share of $0.28 to $0.46. Looking ahead, ongoing tariff threats and trade negotiations as well as geopolitical tensions, we'll continue to weigh on the market.

在計入無擔保票據和優先股的收益後，我們認為普通股的潛在靜態回報率將在9.4%至15.3%之間，或每股預期季度靜態回報率將在0.28美元至0.46美元之間。展望未來，持續的關稅威脅和貿易談判以及地緣政治緊張局勢將繼續對市場造成壓力。

As always, we are mindful of the many sources of volatility that can impact our portfolio. However, we believe there is also opportunity in this environment. The resilience that markets demonstrated in the second quarter is a reminder of the global demand for investment, be it in equities or fixed income spread products like mortgage-backed securities.

像往常一樣，我們注意到許多可能影響我們投資組合的波動因素。然而，我們相信在這種環境下也存在著機會。市場在第二季度表現出的韌性提醒人們，全球對投資的需求，無論是股票還是抵押貸款支持證券等固定收益利差產品。

Spreads for Agency RMBS, particularly went hedged with interest rate swaps remain historically wide and offer good relative value to other high-quality spread assets like corporate bonds. Supply and demand is balanced with demand diversified between money managers, banks, REITs and overseas buyers. Demand from depository institutions should increase of regulatory reform perceived as anticipated.

機構 RMBS 的利差，特別是透過利率互換進行對沖的利差，仍然保持歷史較高水平，並且相對於公司債券等其他高品質利差資產具有良好的相對價值。供需平衡，基金經理人、銀行、房地產投資信託基金和海外買家的需求多樣化。隨著監理改革的推進，存款機構的需求應該會如預期般增加。

Our core strategy of low coupon MSR paired with Agency RMBS is well positioned to benefit from both stable prepayments and wide agency spreads. Additionally, RoundPoint's direct-to-consumer franchise enhances MSR returns through efficient recapture should we enter a faster prepay environment. Taken together, we are confident that our portfolio construction should drive attractive risk-adjusted returns across a range of market conditions.

我們的核心策略是低利率 MSR 與代理 RMBS 結合，能夠從穩定的預付款和較大的代理利差中獲益。此外，如果我們進入更快的預付環境，RoundPoint 的直接面向消費者特許經營權將透過有效的重新捕獲來提高 MSR 回報。總的來說，我們相信，我們的投資組合建構應該能夠在各種市場條件下帶來具有吸引力的經風險調整後的回報。

Thank you very much for joining us today. And now we will be happy to take any questions you might have.

非常感謝您今天加入我們。現在我們很樂意回答您可能提出的任何問題。

(Operator Instructions) Doug Harter, UBS.

（操作員指示）Doug Harter，瑞銀。

Thanks and good morning. So your leverage increased this quarter, I guess, as a result of the litigation reserve. Can you just talk about, is that kind of the new level of leverage that we should be thinking about? Or are there still more portfolio actions to come to kind of bring it back to the prior leverage range?

謝謝，早安。因此，我猜想，由於訴訟儲備，本季度您的槓桿率有所增加。您能否談談，這是我們應該考慮的新的槓桿水平嗎？或者是否還有更多的投資組合行動可以將其恢復到先前的槓桿範圍？

Hey Doug, this is Nick. Thank you for the question. So the -- we ended the quarter at a leverage of 7 times and the range that we have discussed in these calls in the past and there's really been a range that we quote a range of about [5% to 8%] as a leverage target. If you look at our leverage historically, even in that chart that's on that page, you will see that we've been at 7 times in the not-too-distant past, right?

嘿，道格，我是尼克。謝謝你的提問。因此，我們在本季結束時的槓桿率為 7 倍，並且我們在過去的電話會議中討論過這個範圍，實際上我們引用的槓桿目標範圍約為 [5% 到 8%]。如果您查看我們的歷史槓桿率，即使在該頁面上的圖表中，您也會發現在不久的過去我們的槓桿率曾達到 7 倍，對嗎？

So it really is -- it's very much within the range of the leverage that we operate in. The -- by quarter end and through the quarter, we really did like the risk in the market. We believe the mortgages versus swaps look quite attractive. And so we felt it was right from a portfolio management standpoint to increase our leverage. -- through the quarter.

所以它確實——它完全在我們操作的槓桿範圍內。到季度末以及整個季度，我們確實喜歡市場中的風險。我們認為抵押貸款與掉期相比看起來相當有吸引力。因此，我們認為從投資組合管理的角度來看，增加我們的槓桿率是正確的——整個季度都是如此。

And that 7 times, as you say, is inclusive of the $200 million loss reserve that affects our book value. If you were to add that back into our capital, our leverage would drop to about 6.3%. But in any case, the leverage, we feel very comfortable where the leverage is at 7 times and we'll govern portfolio as we always do. It will depend upon where spreads are in the market, what the opportunities -- where the opportunities are, and we will move the leverage around accordingly based upon market opportunities and our capital base.

正如您所說，這 7 倍包括影響我們帳面價值的 2 億美元損失準備金。如果將其重新添加到我們的資本中，我們的槓桿率將下降至約 6.3%。但無論如何，我們對槓桿率感到非常滿意，槓桿率達到 7 倍，我們將像往常一樣管理投資組合。這將取決於市場利差在哪裡、機會在哪裡，我們將根據市場機會和我們的資本基礎相應地調整槓桿。

Great. Appreciate that. And is there any way you could give us an update on economic return performance so far in July?

偉大的。非常感謝。您能否向我們介紹一下七月份迄今的經濟回報表現？

Yeah, good morning, Doug. Quarter to date, through last Friday, we were up about 1.5%.

是的，早安，道格。本季截至上週五，我們的股價上漲了約 1.5%。

That's on economic return just to be clear, right.

只是為了清楚起見，這是關於經濟回報的，對吧。

Yes, economic return on the new book value.

是的，新帳面價值的經濟回報。

Perfect, thank you guys.

太好了，謝謝大家。

Bos George, KBW.

博斯喬治，KBW。

Hey everyone, good morning. Can you remind us on slide 15, you guys have the breakout of the expected returns. Actually, what are the main drivers, the differences between that and the EAD metric?

大家好，早安。您能否在第 15 張投影片上提醒我們，您們已經突破了預期回報。實際上，主要驅動因素是什麼？它與 EAD 指標之間有何區別？

So the EAD is based on historical purchase yields of the assets, right? And as a result, I always like to say that it is that the EAD calculations are asynchronous among assets in the portfolio, because it depends on the yield on which it was on the day that it was purchased, whereas the return outlook slide is all meant to reflect the forward-looking mark-to-market yields at current prices, right?

所以 EAD 是基於資產的歷史購買收益率，對嗎？因此，我總是喜歡說，投資組合中各資產的 EAD 計算是不同步的，因為它取決於購買當天的收益率，而回報前景幻燈片都是為了反映當前價格的前瞻性按市價計價的收益率，對嗎？

We show a range of returns on slide 15 to reflect things like potential fluctuations in prepayments fees, plus potential fluctuations and funding spreads as well as potential fluctuations in leverage of the securities, right? But the main difference is the timing and the market prices at which the assets are utilized in the calculation of the yields.

我們在第 15 張投影片上展示了一系列回報，以反映預付費用的潛在波動、融資利差的潛在波動以及證券槓桿的潛在波動，對嗎？但主要的差異在於計算收益率時所用資產的時間和市場價格。

Okay. That makes sense. And just given where the EAD has been trending sort of the back half of the year, does it make sense that it probably continues to trend sort of below the economic return?

好的。這很有道理。考慮到 EAD 在下半年的趨勢，它繼續低於經濟回報的趨勢是否合理？

Excuse me, hi Bose. I think that's the case because spreads have widened recently and so the EAD of old securities that were purchased previously would not reflect that change in market value.

打擾一下，你好，Bose。我認為情況確實如此，因為最近利差已經擴大，因此先前購買的舊證券的 EAD 不會反映市場價值的變化。

Okay. Yes, that makes sense. And then just one follow-up on Doug's question on the leverage. Does your view on leverage change one set capital that's reserved sort of goes out the door? I mean, is there -- because right now, as you noted, you're sort of optical leverage is different from kind of a real leverage because you still have that cash. So just curious how that -- whether there's any change once some are part of that is paid out?

好的。是的，這很有道理。然後我們再針對道格關於槓桿的問題進行一次跟進。您對槓桿的看法是否會改變一組保留的資本流出？我的意思是，因為現在，正如你所說，你的光學槓桿與真正的槓桿不同，因為你仍然擁有現金。所以只是好奇，一旦部分款項支付出去，情況是否會有任何變化？

Thanks. I mean, Bose, this is Nick. As a general rule, no, it doesn't really change our view on leverage. It's just -- we will manage the portfolio according to the amount of capital that we have. And -- but as far as a general view about leverage, no, it doesn't -- It doesn't change the way we look at the market

謝謝。我的意思是，Bose，這是 Nick。一般來說，不會，它並沒有真正改變我們對槓桿的看法。只是——我們將根據我們擁有的資本數量來管理投資組合。但就槓桿的整體觀點而言，它不會改變我們看待市場的方式

Yeah, that may change portfolio --

是的，這可能會改變投資組合--

Right. It will -- it could potentially change it's another factor in how we manage the composition of our assets. But as an overall rule, no, I do not think it will govern how we view leverage in total.

正確的。它會——它可能會改變我們如何管理資產組成的另一個因素。但作為一條總體規則，不，我認為它不會決定我們如何看待整體槓桿。

Okay. Okay, great. Thanks.

好的。好的，太好了。謝謝。

Trevor Cranston, Citizens JMP.

特雷弗·克蘭斯頓 (Trevor Cranston)，公民 JMP。

Good morning. Bill, in your prepared comments, you mentioned the small amount of originations you guys have done in second liens. And I think you said that's a product you guys could hold or sell in the future. Obviously, it's a small number right now, but I was curious if you could comment on -- is that product you guys are actually interested in building into the investment portfolio or in the near term? Or is that something that's more likely to just be sold off to third parties?

早安.比爾，在你準備好的評論中，你提到了你們在第二留置權方面所做的少量發起。我認為您說過這是您將來可以持有或出售的產品。顯然，目前這個數字很小，但我很好奇您是否可以評論一下——您是否真的有興趣將該產品納入投資組合或在短期內加入？或者這更有可能被賣給第三方？

Thanks. Thanks for the question. I think it's a question about risk and reward, right? So if the yields available on the securities are attractive, we will hold them as we create them. And if we feel that we can extract more value by selling them either in bulk or on flow or in a securitized form, then we'll do that.

謝謝。謝謝你的提問。我認為這是一個關於風險和回報的問題，對嗎？因此，如果證券的收益率具有吸引力，我們將在創建它們時持有它們。如果我們認為透過大量、流動或證券化形式出售可以獲得更多價值，那麼我們就會這樣做。

Really, it's just another set of tools in our tool belt to be able to use. And if it's an attractive asset class, we will we will take advantage of that. But to be able to have multiple outlets for the product is important to us. And so we'll look at all the opportunities on a real-time basis.

實際上，它只是我們工具帶中可以使用的另一套工具。如果它是一個有吸引力的資產類別，我們就會利用它。但對我們來說，能夠擁有多個產品銷售管道非常重要。因此，我們將即時審視所有機會。

Got it. Okay. That makes sense. And then you guys also made a comment about some increased exposure to mortgage derivatives contributing to performance this quarter. Can you just elaborate a little bit on kind of where you guys have been active in the mortgage derivative space? Thanks.

知道了。好的。這很有道理。然後你們也評論說，抵押貸款衍生性商品敞口的增加對本季業績有所貢獻。您能否稍微詳細說明一下你們在抵押貸款衍生品領域的活躍程度？謝謝。

Sure. Trevor, this is Nick. Thank you for that question. At the beginning of the year, we did add another team member to focus on derivatives, which to date has mostly taken the form of growing our inverse IO exposure on the book. But over the quarter, I think we may have allocated about $50 million invested in that sector, but it's still under 5% of the securities capital.

當然。崔佛，這是尼克。謝謝你的提問。今年年初，我們確實增加了另一名團隊成員來專注於衍生品，迄今為止，這主要採取了增加帳簿上的反向 IO 敞口的形式。但在本季度，我認為我們可能已經在該領域投資了約 5000 萬美元，但這仍然不到證券資本的 5%。

So it's still a small component of the book. It's just another sector of the market given the level of expertise we have in prepayments and managing risk across the mortgage -- the agency mortgage sector, it's a sector which we felt does have opportunity.

所以它仍然是這本書的一小部分。鑑於我們在預付款和抵押貸款風險管理方面的專業水平——代理抵押貸款領域，這只是市場的另一個領域，我們認為這個領域確實有機會。

And we have a very skilled group of people here to manage that part of the book. So it's something that we do believe we're going to continue to have a lot of focus on in the upcoming quarters. But as a total amount of our risk, it's still a fairly small amount.

我們這裡有一群非常熟練的人員來管理這本書的這一部分。因此，我們確實相信，在接下來的幾個季度裡，我們將繼續專注於這個問題。但作為我們的風險總額，它仍然是一個相當小的數額。

Yeah, okay, I appreciate the comments. Thank you, guys.

是的，好的，我很感謝你的評論。謝謝你們。

Harsh Hemnani, Green Street.

哈什‧赫姆納尼 (Harsh Hemnani)，綠街。

Hey, good morning. can we talk about financing strategy and maybe the thought process behind moving part of the financing from Ribot unsecured this quarter?

嘿，早安。我們可以談談融資策略嗎？或者本季將 Ribot 的部分融資轉移到無擔保融資背後的想法是什麼？

Good morning Harsh, it's William Dellal. The reason we did the unsecured baby bond was to start to prefinance the maturity of the convertible, and some of the warehouse lines that we see are now kind of warehouse repos. So that's why there is some change there. But basically, the big change is the issuance of the [Vabond], which is to prefund point of convert maturity.

早上好，Harsh，我是 William Dellal。我們發行無擔保嬰兒債券的原因是為了開始為可轉換債券的到期進行預先融資，而我們現在看到的一些倉單額度就是一種倉單回購。這就是為什麼那裡會發生一些變化。但基本上，最大的變化是發行[Vabond]，為轉換到期點提供預付資金。

Got it thank you that's all from me.

明白了，謝謝，這就是我要說的。

Kenneth Lee, RBC Capital Markets.

Kenneth Lee，加拿大皇家銀行資本市場。

Hey. Hey, good morning. Thanks for taking the question. Good morning. Just wondering if you could just talk about thoughts around potential impact of a steepening yield curve on the portfolio. And then in particular, just further expand upon the potential benefits there to the MSRs. Thanks.

嘿。嘿，早安。感謝您回答這個問題。早安.只是想知道您是否可以談談殖利率曲線變陡對投資組合的潛在影響的看法。然後具體地進一步擴大 MSR 的潛在優勢。謝謝。

Hey Ken, this is Nick, thank you for the question. In general, as we have said, we do hedge across the yield curve in general. So we don't have a particularly strong view about the curve or our risk don't really reflect a particularly strong view across the curve. And if you look at the appendix slides that show our general curve exposure, you can see they're fairly small.

嘿，肯，我是尼克，謝謝你的提問。總體而言，正如我們所說，我們確實會對殖利率曲線進行對沖。因此，我們對曲線沒有特別強烈的看法，或者我們的風險並沒有真正反映出對曲線的特別強烈的看法。如果您查看附錄投影片，其中顯示了我們的整體曲線曝光，您會發現它們相當小。

So as a broad measure to our performance, we are hedged across the curve. That being said, steeper yield curves are usually good things for mortgage spreads because it does incent depository institutions frequently to go out on the curve and invest and particularly in one of their prime assets are mortgage-backed securities.

因此，作為對我們業績的廣泛衡量，我們採取了全程對沖措施。話雖如此，殖利率曲線越陡，通常對抵押貸款利差來說是一件好事，因為它確實會激勵存款機構頻繁地進行曲線投資，尤其是投資於抵押貸款支持證券，這是它們的主要資產之一。

And the history will tell you that when the Fed cuts and the yield curve steepens that you tend to see more participation by banks in our sector, and that drives spreads tighter. So there's a secondary effect of that. The actual -- the implications on MSR are again, built into our risks, MSR is an asset that is like an IO and that it's pre-payment sensitive.

歷史會告訴你，當聯準會降息且殖利率曲線變陡時，你往往會看到銀行更參與我們的產業，從而導致利差縮小。因此這會產生副作用。實際情況是，對 MSR 的影響再次融入我們的風險中，MSR 是一種類似於 IO 的資產，並且對預付款很敏感。

I think everybody knows that, but also a large component of the value of MSR is also the float income, right, which is tied to the front end of the curve. So to the extent that the curve steepens, if front-end rates go down, that will take -- that will drive the price of MSR down. And in fact, that's one of the reasons why MSR these days, our low gross WAC still has as much -- it doesn't have much negative duration, but it does have negative duration. And a big component of that is that is the front rates and the effect on float income.

我想大家都知道這一點，但 MSR 價值的很大一部分也是浮動收入，對吧，它與曲線的前端相關。因此，如果曲線變陡，前端利率下降，這將導致 MSR 價格下降。事實上，這就是為什麼如今 MSR 的低總 WAC 仍然有這麼多的原因之一——它沒有太多的負持續時間，但確實有負持續時間。其中一個重要組成部分是前期利率及其對浮動收入的影響。

So the effect is that if you do get into a steep real curve environment, on MSR, there really -- there are two counter balancing effects. The first is that the float income will go down. The second is if the curve steepens, that does -- that also rates for longer forward rates typically go higher, which means that prepayment assumptions go lower.

因此，效果是，如果你確實進入陡峭的實際曲線環境，在 MSR 上，實際上 - 存在兩種平衡效應。一是浮動收入會下降。第二，如果曲線變陡，那麼長期遠期利率通常也會走高，這意味著預付款假設會降低。

So there's a little bit of a balancing, but those two things will govern how the price action of MSR performs over time.

因此需要一點平衡，但這兩件事將決定 MSR 的價格行為隨時間的表現。

Got you. Very helpful there. And just on my follow-up here. Just wondering if you could talk a little bit more about your risk appetite. I think you said that in the quarter, you took on like the risks in the markets and looking at the risk exposures, it looked as if there's some quarter-over-quarter slight increase in rate exposure maybe unchanged on spread. Just want to get a little bit more color around your appetite for risk in the current market? Thanks.

明白了。非常有幫助。這只是我的後續行動。只是想知道您是否可以再多談談您的風險偏好。我想您說過，在本季度，您承擔了市場風險，從風險敞口來看，利率敞口似乎比上一季略有增加，但利差可能沒有變化。只是想更詳細地了解您在當前市場中的風險偏好嗎？謝謝。

Our rate exposure quarter-over-quarter is virtually unchanged. The -- in our spread risk from quarter end to quarter end is also pretty close if you measured by our spread risk on the appendix slide and on the main portion. Overall, I would say risk right now, we like the market. We like where mortgage spreads are. If you look at hedged with swap spreads.

我們的利率風險環比幾乎沒有變化。如果透過附錄投影片和主要部分的利差風險來衡量，那麼我們從一個季度末到另一個季度末的利差風險也相當接近。總的來說，我認為現在有風險，我們喜歡市場。我們喜歡抵押貸款利差的現狀。如果你看一下用掉期利差來對沖。

They are generous historically. And even on an OAS basis, they look pretty cheap relative to the amount of spread volatility that we've seen. As I said in my prepared remarks, spread volatility has declined the lowest levels since the pre-COVID time period. We had a bit of a spike at -- in the early part of April when the market was quite volatile and the VIX hit that bit of a multiyear high. the market settled right back down to where it was before that. And it's in this -- we're in a good place. I mean the realized rate volatility right now has been fairly low.

從歷史上看，他們是慷慨的。即使以 OAS 為基礎，相對於我們所見的利差波動量，它們看起來也相當便宜。正如我在準備好的發言中所說，利差波動性已降至新冠疫情爆發前的最低水準。4 月初，市場波動較大，VIX 指數創下多年來的新高，但隨後市場又回落至先前的水平。就這一點而言——我們處於一個很好的位置。我的意思是，目前實際利率波動率相當低。

Even once we got through the beginning part of the second quarter and for the third quarter so far, we've been in a pretty tight range of rates. We like where spreads are. And the our MSR continues to perform quite well, and the market is extremely well supported right now in terms of demand.

即使我們已經度過了第二季初和第三季度，我們的利率也一直處於相當緊張的區間。我們喜歡利差存在的地方。我們的 MSR 繼續表現良好，目前市場在需求方面得到了極好的支持。

Great, very helpful there. Thanks again.

很棒，非常有幫助。再次感謝。

Jason Weaver, Jones trading.

傑森·韋弗，瓊斯交易。

Hi, good morning, thanks for taking my question. In your prepared remarks, you mentioned something about, maybe your outlook for the mortgage origination market and how that might affect the sort of MSR appetite, the opportunity set there and the competitive landscape going forward?

嗨，早上好，感謝您回答我的問題。在您準備好的演講中，您提到了一些關於抵押貸款發放市場的展望，以及這將如何影響 MSR 的需求、其中的機會以及未來的競爭格局？

Yeah, well, now -- I mean, we've been saying for a little bit now that our mortgage origination effort is still small. And as we said in the prepared remarks, only 0.7% of our portfolio is eligible for refinance from a rate and term perspective. And so we're trying to be mindful of the cost attached to growing that efforts to large, too fast because that would create a drag on our earnings.

是的，嗯，現在——我的意思是，我們一直在說，我們的抵押貸款發放力度仍然很小。正如我們在準備好的評論中所說，從利率和期限的角度來看，我們投資組合中只有 0.7% 有資格進行再融資。因此，我們試圖注意過快擴大這項努力所帶來的成本，因為這會拖累我們的收益。

But we're trying to do things within the business in order to be able to be able to scale more quickly, originating second liens is part of that, and we can utilize having more loan officers making loans and making second liens and brokering second liens.

但我們正在嘗試在業務範圍內做一些事情，以便能夠更快地擴大規模，發起第二留置權是其中的一部分，我們可以利用更多的貸款人員來發放貸款、設立第二留置權並經紀第二留置權。

While there's not a lot of first lien activity, right? So we can share some of that. And then should rates fall later, we can transfer some of those things. back to first liens right from seconds where the loan sizes are bigger and there will be more opportunity should rates fall and we get into an environment where more loans are eligible refinance.

雖然沒有太多的優先留置權活動，對嗎？所以我們可以分享一些。然後，如果利率稍後下降，我們可以將其中一些東西轉移回第一留置權，從貸款規模更大的第二留置權開始，如果利率下降，我們將進入一個更多貸款有資格進行再融資的環境，從而有更多的機會。

So we're trying to balance those factors of costs and opportunity. And I think we'll watch the market going forward, and we'll be ready to react as rates move.

因此，我們正在嘗試平衡成本和機會因素。我認為我們會關注市場未來走勢，並準備好對利率變動做出反應。

Got it. And I was wondering, can you provide maybe some more clarity or some bracketing around what you expect on timeline for resolution of the PRCM litigation as well as if you have a ballpark for what the claims are for you against IP?

知道了。我想知道，您能否提供更清晰的說明或概括一下您對 PRCM 訴訟解決時間表的預期，以及您是否對針對 IP 的索賠有一個大致的了解？

Well, look, unfortunately, I appreciate the question. I really do. Unfortunately, I can't really say a lot more than what William said in his prepared remarks. A trial date has not been set yet. And so we are waiting for the next stages to occur. When there is something to update you and the rest of the market on, we will, of course, do that as soon as we can.

嗯，很遺憾，我很感謝你提出這個問題。我確實如此。不幸的是，除了威廉在準備好的發言中所說的內容之外，我實際上不能說太多。審判日期尚未確定。因此，我們正在等待下一階段的發生。當有事情需要向您和其他市場更新時，我們當然會盡快這樣做。

All right thank you.

好的，謝謝。

I Appreciate the time.

我非常感謝您的時間。

Yeah thank you.

是的，謝謝。

Rick Shane, JP Morgan.

摩根大通的里克·沙恩。

Hey guys, thanks for taking my questions this morning. I'd like to talk a little bit about the expense structure. Just servicing costs down sequentially, down year-over-year, [comp] and OpEx down sequentially. I assume that there's -- in the first quarter on the comp side, some sort of annual stuff that comes through, and that's what drives it. But particularly as you are expanding your investment in AI.

嘿，大家好，感謝你們今天早上回答我的問題。我想稍微談談費用結構。服務成本季減，年減，營運成本較上季下降。我認為，在第一季度，從可比較數據來看，會出現一些年度數據，這就是推動其成長的因素。但特別是當你擴大對人工智慧的投資時。

Can you help us understand what will be expense, what will be capitalized and how you see that driving your expense lines going forward?

您能否幫助我們了解什麼是費用，什麼將被資本化，以及您如何看待這些因素推動您未來的費用支出？

Good morning, Rick. A lot of what we're doing is going to be expense rather than capitalize the rules for capitalizing are quite strict. The material we're doing now is likely to be expensed, which is why our expense ratio tended to say cost at or even creep up a little bit

早上好，里克。我們所做的很多事情都將變成費用而不是資本化，資本化的規則非常嚴格。我們現在做的材料很可能會被計入費用，這就是為什麼我們的費用率往往會達到成本水平，甚至略有上升

So when we think about expenses for the second half, the combined expense between servicing costs and comp benefits and was $45 million in the second quarter. Is that a decent run rate to build off of in the third, fourth and into 2026?

因此，當我們考慮下半年的支出時，第二季的服務成本和福利的總支出為 4,500 萬美元。這是在第三、第四和 2026 年可以保持的良好運行率嗎？

I think we're going to be in that ballpark, yes.

是的，我認為我們會達到這個目標。

And in terms of the AI build-out, it's an interesting, I think, challenge for companies of your size balancing off the shelf versus [bespoke] internally developed solutions. Help us understand how that works in your business, please?

就人工智慧建設而言，我認為，對於像您這樣規模的公司來說，平衡現成的解決方案和[客製化]內部開發的解決方案是一個有趣的挑戰。請幫助我們了解這在您的業務中是如何運作的，好嗎？

Look, I think it works the same way it works really almost everywhere there's going to be -- there's lots of activity and lots of developments and lots of products being brought to market. in real time and changing rapidly in this space that can help us do all kinds of efficiencies, and cost savings and improve our experience. So it's changing very, very rapidly.

你看，我認為它的工作原理幾乎在所有地方都是相同的——有很多活動、很多開發和很多產品被推向市場。這個領域即時且快速變化，可以幫助我們提高各種效率、節省成本並改善我們的體驗。所以它變化得非常非常快。

I'd say it's more likely that we will be accessing some of those resources from other companies rather than building ourselves. But some simple things that we can do ourselves that are particularly bespoke for our needs, we are likely to do. But I'd say the bulk of it is probably going to be from third parties.

我想說，我們更有可能從其他公司取得一些資源，而不是自己建造。但是，我們很可能會做一些我們自己可以做的、特別適合我們需求的簡單的事情。但我想說，其中大部分可能來自第三方。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

And the stuff that we take, some of it requires a little bit of customization to our particular needs. But the main bulk of that will be third party.

我們帶的東西中，有些需要根據我們的特殊需求進行一些客製化。但其中主要部分將是第三方。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Jason Stewart, Janney.

傑森史都華、詹妮。

Hey, thanks. Follow up on Trevor's question on second liens and the balance sheet. As production ramps on the core business, is there any possibility or intent to retain POS? Or is the goal to continue to sell that?

嘿，謝謝。跟進 Trevor 關於第二留置權和資產負債表的問題。隨著核心業務產量的增加，是否有可能或有意保留 POS？或者目標是繼續銷售它？

I think there is a possibility for that. And I think that's one of the things that we're looking at as we grow the origination effort and the products that we offer. And the outlets that we will access to do those things, whether it's selling it and some of it could involve retaining some of that stuff. So yes, I think that's one of the things that we're looking at.

我認為有這個可能。我認為這是我們在擴大發起工作和提供產品時關注的事情之一。我們將利用這些管道來做這些事情，無論是出售還是保留其中的一些東西。是的，我認為這是我們正在關注的事情之一。

Okay. And I assume that you look at the same way as you described seconds, meaning it's got to hit certain economic return hurdles, et cetera. Is there any other strategic thought behind shifting the balance sheet from primarily agency to private label credit?

好的。我認為您看待秒數的方式與您描述的一樣，這意味著它必須達到一定的經濟回報障礙等等。將資產負債表從主要代理商轉向自有品牌信貸背後還有其他策略想法嗎？

Well, I think it would still be primarily agency. I don't think we would talk about expanding our non-agency exposure to a level that it would be primarily that. So as a minority interest in the portfolio of other kind of asset class with predominantly similar risks but some slightly different ones. I think it has a benefit in the portfolio. And so that's the way we're going to look at it.

嗯，我認為它仍然主要是代理機構。我認為我們不會談論將我們的非代理業務擴大到主要如此的水平。因此，作為其他資產類別投資組合中的少數股權，其風險主要相似，但略有不同。我認為它對投資組合有益。這就是我們看待這個問題的方式。

Okay, thank you.

好的，謝謝。

At this time, there are no further questions. I'll turn the call back to Bill for any additional or closing remarks.

目前，沒有其他問題。我會將電話轉回給比爾，讓他做任何補充或結束語。

I want to thank everyone for joining us today. And as always, thanks for your interest in Two Harbors.

我要感謝大家今天的出席。一如既往，感謝您對 Two Harbors 的關注。

This does concludes today's conference. We thank you for your participation.

今天的會議到此結束。我們感謝您的參與。