Two Harbors Investment Corp (TWO) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Hello, and welcome to the Two Harbors Investment Corp. Fourth Quarter 2023 financial results conference call and webcast. If anyone should require operator assistance, please press star zero on your telephone keypad. A question and answer session will follow the formal presentation, you may be placed in the question queue at any time by pressing star one on your telephone keypad. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It's now my pleasure to turn the call over to Maggie Carr, Head of Investor Relations.

您好，歡迎來到兩港投資公司 2023 年第四季財務業績電話會議和網路廣播。如果有人需要接線生幫助，請按電話鍵盤上的星號零。正式演示之後將進行問答環節，您可以隨時按下電話鍵盤上的星號將您置於問題隊列中。提醒一下，本次會議正在錄製中。現在我很高興將電話轉給投資者關係主管 Maggie Carr。

Please go ahead, Maggie.

請繼續，瑪吉。

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to our call to discuss Two Harbors' Fourth Quarter 2023 financial results. With me on the call this morning are Bill Greenberg, our President and Chief Executive Officer, Ned Coletta, our Chief Investment Officer, and Mary risky, our Chief Financial Officer. The earnings press release and presentation associated with today's call have been filed with the SEC and are available on the SEC's website as well as the Investor Relations page of our website at Two Harbors investments.com.

大家早安，歡迎致電我們討論兩港 2023 年第四季的財務表現。今天早上與我一起參加電話會議的有我們的總裁兼首席執行官比爾·格林伯格(Bill Greenberg)、我們的首席投資官內德·科萊塔(Ned Coletta) 和我們的首席財務官瑪麗·風險(Mary Risky)。與今天電話會議相關的收益新聞稿和簡報已提交給 SEC，並可在 SEC 網站以及我們網站 Two Harborsinvestments.com 的投資者關係頁面上查看。

In our earnings release and presentation, we have provided reconciliations of GAAP to non-GAAP financial measures, and we urge you to review this information in conjunction with today's call.

在我們的收益發布和演示中，我們提供了 GAAP 與非 GAAP 財務指標的調整表，我們敦促您結合今天的電話會議查看此資訊。

As a reminder, our comments today will include forward-looking statements, which are subject to risks and uncertainties that may cause our results to differ materially from expectations. These are described on page 2 of the presentation and in our Form 10 K and subsequent reports filed with the SEC. Except as may be required by law, Two Harbors does not update forward-looking statements and disclaims any obligation to do so.

提醒一下，我們今天的評論將包括前瞻性陳述，這些陳述受到風險和不確定性的影響，這可能導致我們的結果與預期有重大差異。這些內容在簡報的第 2 頁以及我們向 SEC 提交的 10 K 表格和後續報告中進行了描述。除法律要求外，兩港不會更新前瞻性陳述，也不承擔任何這樣做的義務。

I will now turn the call over to Bill.

我現在將把電話轉給比爾。

Thank you, Maggie, and good morning, everyone, and welcome to our fourth quarter earnings call. Today, I'll provide an overview of our quarterly and annual performance. Then I will spend a few moments discussing the markets and finish with an update on round Point's operations. Mary will cover our financial results in detail, and Nick will discuss our investment portfolio and return outlook.

謝謝瑪吉，大家早安，歡迎參加我們的第四季財報電話會議。今天，我將概述我們的季度和年度業績。然後我將花一些時間討論市場，並以有關 Round Point 運營的最新情況結束。瑪麗將詳細介紹我們的財務業績，尼克將討論我們的投資組合和回報前景。

Let's begin with Slide 3. Our book value at December 31st was $15.21 per share, representing a positive 2.0% total economic return for the quarter eye exam was $0.39 per share, representing a 10.3% annualized return. In the fourth quarter, we issued 7.0 million shares through our ATM program, raising 97.8 million in common equity. Taking a step back and looking at 2023, I'm proud of what our Company achieved for the benefit of our stockholders, both through the active management of our portfolio and our capital structure and through the addition of our new operational platform. In February, we raised $176 million in common equity and allocated all of those funds to investments in MSR which increased our capital allocation to this asset class to 62%.

讓我們從幻燈片 3 開始。截至 12 月 31 日，我們的帳面價值為每股 15.21 美元，代表正向 2.0% 的季度眼科檢查總經濟回報率為每股 0.39 美元，代表年化回報率為 10.3%。第四季度，我們透過 ATM 計畫發行了 700 萬股股票，籌集了 9,780 萬股普通股。退後一步，展望 2023 年，我為我們公司透過積極管理我們的投資組合和資本結構以及透過增加新的營運平台為股東的利益所取得的成就感到自豪。2 月份，我們籌集了 1.76 億美元的普通股，並將所有這些資金分配給 MSR 投資，這將我們對該資產類別的資本配置增加到 62%。

Without a doubt.

毫無疑問。

However, the highlight of our year was the acquisition of round point mortgage servicing, which reinforced our commitment to MSR as a core and essential part of our business.

然而，我們這一年的亮點是收購了圓點抵押貸款服務，這加強了我們對 MSR 的承諾，將其作為我們業務的核心和重要組成部分。

Please turn to slide 4 for brief discussion on the market. Fourth quarter of 2023 was punctuated by continued volatility in rates and spreads on the back of a stronger than expected September jobs reports, coupled with the outbreak of war in the Middle East, interest rates moved steadily higher in early October at its peak, the 10-year treasury yield briefly touched 5%, approximately 40 basis points higher than it was at the beginning of the quarter and abrupt turn of sentiment followed in early November after Chairman, Powell's optimistic assessments of the Fed's efforts to bring down inflation and engineer a soft landing interest rates quickly reversed course and declined 36 basis points over the next three trading sessions. Supportive economic data in November as well as dovish Fed commentary drove the market to pricing as many as six interest rate cuts in 2024, the entire yield curve responded as the 10-year treasury rate finished the quarter at a yield of 3.88%, 59 basis points lower than it started at the beginning of the quarter and the two year treasury rate declined 79 basis points to 4.25%, resulting in a net 10 basis point steepening of the yield curve. You can see these changes in figure one on the slide from peak to trough the 5-year and 10-year treasury yields. It moved a jaw-dropping 120 basis points in the quarter. It's interesting to look at these rate moves in a historical context, which you can see in figure two on the bottom of the slide market practitioners often quoted measures of realized volatility as the variance or standard deviations of historical price movements are sometimes their percentage changes, and that's meaningful for those who are adept in statistics in this chart, we aim to show something simpler and we believe more intuitive. We simply look at how many days over the past 20 years had a move in the 5-year treasury rate of more than 10 basis points in 2023, the market experienced more than 50 days of such move. That is the 5-year rate move more than 10 basis points and more than 20% of the trading sessions during the year. This was the second highest instance of this metric right behind 28 during the great financial crisis for essentially a decade prior to 2022. There were only two years where there were 10 such days. Many years during that period had less than five. There are of course, many differences between then and now. But this time series plot is meant to provide some perspective and the market that we have been managing.

請參閱投影片 4 以簡要討論市場。2023 年第四季度，由於 9 月就業報告強於預期，利率和利差持續波動，加上中東戰爭爆發，利率在 10 月初穩步走高，達到峰值，即 10 月份的峰值。年期國債收益率短暫觸及5%，比本季初高出約40 個基點，11 月初，主席鮑威爾對聯準會降低通膨和製定軟貨幣政策的努力做出樂觀評估後，市場情緒突然轉變。下降的利率迅速逆轉，在接下來的三個交易日中下降了36 個基點。11 月的支持性經濟數據以及鴿派的聯準會評論推動市場對2024 年多達六次降息進行定價，整個收益率曲線做出反應，10 年期國債利率在本季度結束時收益率為3.88%（ 59 基點）兩年期公債利率比本季初低了 79 個基點，至 4.25%，導致殖利率曲線淨陡化 10 個基點。您可以在圖一中從 5 年期和 10 年期公債殖利率從高峰到低谷的幻燈片中看到這些變化。本季該指數上漲了 120 個基點，令人瞠目結舌。在歷史背景下觀察這些利率變動是很有趣的，您可以在幻燈片底部的圖二中看到市場從業者經常引用已實現波動性的衡量標準，因為歷史價格變動的方差或標準差有時是其百分比變化，這對於那些擅長這張圖表中的統計數據的人來說是有意義的，我們的目標是展示一些更簡單的東西，我們相信更直觀。我們簡單來看看過去20年有多少天5年期公債利率超過10個基點，2023年市場出現超過50天這樣的波動。即5年期利率變動超過10個基點，且年內交易時段變動超過20%。這是該指標的第二高實例，僅次於 2022 年之前十年的金融危機期間的 28。僅兩年有十次這樣的日子。那個時期的很多年都少於五年。當然，當時和現在有很多不同。但這個時間序列圖旨在提供一些視角和我們一直在管理的市場。

Please turn to slide 5 for a brief discussion on round Point's operations. We closed the acquisition of FrontPoint effective September 30th and have been actively integrating our systems and people potential transfer of our servicing to round points platform is expected to occur on February first, and we will have one final cleanup of 60,000 loans in early June. As shown in figure one in all, we expect the total number of loans on the runoff platform to be just north of 900,000, making it the eighth largest conventional servicer in the country, transferring almost 1 million loans in this timeframe is quite an accomplishment. And the team at round point has done an excellent job of keeping up with the expanding portfolio while maintaining a commitment, delivering exceptional service to every homeowner. Since the closing of the acquisition, we have made large strides in integrating round points functions, operations and overall platform into Two Harbors. We continue to see this acquisition as providing a lot of opportunity going forward for our shareholders in particular, we still believe that the round points servicing platform should benefit the combined company by approximately 25 million in pretax income in 2024, the result of both incremental revenue and cost figure.

請參閱投影片 5，簡要討論 round Point 的運作。我們於9 月30 日完成了對FrontPoint 的收購，並一直在積極整合我們的系統和人員，預計將於2 月1 日將我們的服務轉移到積分平台，我們將在6 月初對60,000 筆貸款進行最終清理。如圖一所示，我們預計徑流平台上的貸款總數將超過 90 萬筆，使其成為全國第八大傳統服務商，在這段時間內轉移近 100 萬筆貸款是一項相當大的成就。圓點團隊在跟上不斷擴大的投資組合的同時保持承諾，為每位房主提供卓越的服務方面做得非常出色。自收購完成以來，我們在將圓點功能、營運和整體平台整合到兩港方面取得了長足進步。我們仍然認為此次收購為我們的股東提供了許多未來的機會，我們仍然相信，積分服務平台應該在2024 年為合併後的公司帶來約2500 萬美元的稅前收入，這是收入增量的結果和成本數字。

Two on the bottom right of this slide highlights our top key strategic initiatives for round point for 2024. Our first focus is to render additional cost savings and economies of scale from the platform. This involves being smart about our technology, knowing when to buy versus build and just streamline processes and create additional efficiency.

這張投影片右下角的兩個強調了我們 2024 年回合點的最重要策略舉措。我們的首要重點是透過平台實現額外的成本節約和規模經濟。這包括對我們的技術進行明智的了解，知道何時購買與構建，以及簡化流程並創造額外的效率。

Second area of focus is to develop the best in class direct to consumer originations channel to provide recapture on our portfolio but note rate on our MSR portfolio is below 3.5%. And so with mortgage rates north of 6.5%, we are a long way away from serious refinancing activity unless interest rates fall precipitously, we think that we have the time to build the platform that we want. We have hired a very experienced individual to lead this efforts we've spent his entire 30-year career building and running direct to consumer businesses. We are in the process of expanding the team, and we expect to be able to begin making loans in the second quarter. The ability to create something from scratch without any legacy issues or risks is tremendously exciting, and few companies get the chance to do that with a direct to consumer origination platform. We also expect to be able to offer our borrowers second liens, home-equity loans and other ancillary product.

第二個重點領域是開發一流的直接面向消費者的管道，以重新奪回我們的投資組合，但注意我們的 MSR 投資組合的利率低於 3.5%。因此，隨著抵押貸款利率超過 6.5%，我們距離認真的再融資活動還有很長的路要走，除非利率急劇下降，我們認為我們有時間建立我們想要的平台。我們聘請了一位經驗豐富的人士來領導這項工作，他在 30 年的職業生涯中一直致力於建立和經營直接面向消費者的業務。我們正在擴大團隊，預計能夠在第二季開始發放貸款。在沒有任何遺留問題或風險的情況下從頭開始創建某些東西的能力是非常令人興奮的，很少有公司有機會透過直接面向消費者的創始平台做到這一點。我們也希望能夠為借款人提供第二留置權、房屋淨值貸款和其他輔助產品。

Lastly, we are keenly focused on the growth of round points. Third, subservicing business as of year end, round points serviced a total of seven through third party clients, including one new clients added in the fourth quarter. This new client is the operator of a newly formed MSR exchange, which matches MSR buyers and sellers. While they have yet to add any new loans to our platform, we are optimistic about this new partnership. Additionally, there has been increasing demand and activity from institutional investors for participating the MSR market for separately managed accounts. The opportunity exists because the market has never before seen our risk profile like the current MSR asset class with most of the universe being far away from the refinance window, we believe the best way to grow subservicing business is by being the subservicer of choice for this new capital. We think there are many reasons why we are a great partner for this new capital, and we are actually working to ensure that we have the ability to support various structures. And indeed, we recently signed a term sheet to sell a small pool of our own MSR to a nontraditional market participants on a servicing retained basis, which will bring the number of true third subservicing clients to eight once that deal closes.

最後，我們非常關注圓點的成長。三是代服務業務，截至年末，圓點透過第三方客戶共服務7家，其中四季新增1家客戶。這個新客戶是新成立的MSR交易所的營運商，該交易所為MSR買家和賣家牽線搭橋。雖然他們尚未向我們的平台添加任何新貸款，但我們對這種新的合作夥伴關係感到樂觀。此外，機構投資者參與獨立管理帳戶 MSR 市場的需求和活動不斷增加。機會的存在是因為市場以前從未見過我們像當前 MSR 資產類別那樣的風險狀況，而且大多數資產都遠離再融資窗口，我們相信發展服務業務的最佳方式是成為該服務的首選子服務商新資本。我們認為，我們成為這個新資本的優秀合作夥伴的原因有很多，而且我們實際上正在努力確保我們有能力支持各種結構。事實上，我們最近簽署了一份條款清單，以保留服務的方式將我們自己的一小部分MSR 出售給非傳統市場參與者，一旦交易完成，這將使真正的第三方服務客戶數量達到8 個。

Bringing this all together, let's discuss how we are thinking about our portfolio of securities in MSR and our operational platform in the current environment. While agency spreads are attractive, especially in a historical context, the market is in the midst of transitioning from a period of Fed tightening to one with a more neutral posture. And one where we think spreads on RMBS are roughly fair. Therefore, we do not think this is a great time to climb far out on a limb in terms of risk or leverage.

綜上所述，讓我們討論一下我們如何考慮 MSR 中的證券投資組合以及當前環境下的營運平台。儘管機構利差具有吸引力，尤其是在歷史背景下，但市場正處於從聯準會緊縮時期過渡到更中性姿態的過程中。我們認為人民幣支持證券的利差大致公平。因此，我們認為現在不是在風險或槓桿方面走得太遠的好時機。

Second, the current environment reinforces why MSR is such a valuable asset in our portfolio, having low prepayments and convexity risks and producing a highly positive cash flow at attractive yields, whether or not the Fed cuts three times or six times or zero times in 2024. We still expect prepayment speeds on our MSR portfolio remains slow for quite some time. So we are preparing for the unexpected with the development of our direct to consumer recapture channel. The nature of our portfolio construction means that when MBS underperformed, our capital allocation will outperform pure agency strategies. And when MBS outperform, our portfolio will underperform pure agency strategy. This is by choice and by design. A good example of this can be seen in just the last two quarters. While we expect to have underperformed pure agency strategies this quarter as MBS tightened, we significantly outperformed last quarter when they widened our high capital allocation to MSR act as a balance to our portfolio and agency spreads fluctuate.

其次，當前的環境強化了為什麼MSR 是我們投資組合中如此有價值的資產，無論聯準會在2024 年是否降息三次、六次或零次，其預付款和凸性風險較低，並以有吸引力的收益率產生高度正的現金流。我們仍然預計我們的 MSR 投資組合的預付款速度在相當長的一段時間內仍然緩慢。因此，我們正在透過開發直接面向消費者的重新奪回管道來為意外情況做好準備。我們投資組合建構的性質意味著，當MBS表現不佳時，我們的資本配置將優於純代理策略。當 MBS 跑贏大盤時，我們的投資組合將遜於純粹的代理策略。這是出於選擇和設計。過去兩個季度就是一個很好的例子。雖然我們預計本季由於MBS 收緊，純代理策略的表現將遜於純代理策略，但上個季度，當他們將我們的高資本配置擴大到MSR 時，我們的表現顯著優於純代理策略，以平衡我們的投資組合和代理利差波動。

Looking further ahead, we are forging a path that lies not merely in watching mortgage spreads flicker by on the screen, but rather through the financial investment in an asset class MSR where we can more meaningfully impact our results through our actions. The uniqueness of Two Harbors is that we are not a pure agency-only reach. We have built our portfolio with the intent of delivering high-quality returns, not just over the next quarter or even the next rate cutting cycle. But over the long term, despite interim interest rates and spread volatility, ours is not a stagnant portfolio and we constantly evaluate opportunities across our core competencies, all through the lens of creating sustainable shareholder value.

展望未來，我們正在開闢一條道路，不僅在於觀看螢幕上閃爍的抵押貸款利差，還在於透過對資產類別 MSR 進行財務投資，我們可以透過我們的行動更有意義地影響我們的結果。兩港的獨特之處在於我們並非純粹的代理商。我們建立投資組合的目的是提供高品質的回報，而不僅僅是在下一個季度甚至下一個降息週期內。但從長遠來看，儘管存在中期利率和利差波動，我們的投資組合並非停滯不前，我們始終從創造可持續股東價值的角度不斷評估我們核心競爭力的機會。

With that, I'd like to hand the call over to Mary to discuss our financial results.

說到這裡，我想將電話轉交給瑪麗，討論我們的財務表現。

Thank you, Bill and good morning. Please turn to Slide 6. The Company generated comprehensive income of $38.9 million, or $0.4 per weighted average share in the fourth quarter our book value was $15.21 per share at December 31st compared to $15.36 at September 30th, including the $0.45 common dividend resulted in a quarterly economic return, a positive 2.0%.

謝謝你，比爾，早安。請翻到幻燈片 6。該公司第四季綜合收益為3,890 萬美元，即每股加權平均收益0.4 美元，截至12 月31 日，我們的帳面價值為每股15.21 美元，而9 月30 日為每股15.36 美元，其中包括0.45美元的普通股股息，帶來了季度經濟回報，這是一個正面的結果2.0%。

Before turning to slide 7, I'd like to call your attention to appendix slide 30, where we have included the customary information on re-taxable income and the tax characterization of our dividend distributions. For additional information regarding the distributions and tax treatment, please refer to the dividend information found in the Investor Relations section of our website.

在轉向投影片 7 之前，我想請您注意附錄投影片 30，其中我們包含了有關應再稅收入和股利分配的稅務特徵的慣例資訊。有關分配和稅務處理的更多信息，請參閱我們網站投資者關係部分的股息資訊。

Please turn to Slide 7. Eye exam for the fourth quarter was $38.2 million, or $0.39 per share, representing an annualized return of 10.3% lower eye exam quarter over quarter was impacted primarily by spread volatility and related portfolio activity.

請翻到幻燈片 7。第四季 Eye Exam 的營收為 3,820 萬美元，即每股 0.39 美元，年化回報率環比下降 10.3%，主要受到價差波動和相關投資組合活動的影響。

Moving to Slide 8. Let's look at some detail of the quarter-over-quarter variances in eye exam. Axsym is lower quarter over quarter by 11.1 million. This was driven primarily by decreased income on RMBS from lower balances and moving our mortgage investments down in coupon. Additionally, eye exam was affected by certain year-end expense accrual adjustments. As a reminder, eye exam reflects our daily adjusted holdings over the quarter. There can be quarterly distortions in eye exam by coupon positioning, timing of MSR cash flows, funding rates and leverage and expense adjustments. But we believe that it is the most helpful way for our investors and analysts to understand the current quarter return contributions. I see them as complementary to the return potential and outlook slide later in the presentation, which reflects our view on prospective returns.

轉到投影片 8。讓我們來看看眼科檢查中季度與季度差異的一些細節。Axsym 環比下降 1110 萬。這主要是由於餘額減少導致 RMBS 收入減少以及我們的抵押貸款投資票面利率下降所致。此外，眼科檢查也受到某些年終費用應計調整的影響。提醒一下，眼科檢查反映了我們本季每日調整的持倉量。由於息票定位、MSR 現金流的時間表、融資利率以及槓桿和費用調整，眼科檢查可能會出現季度扭曲。但我們相信，這是我們的投資者和分析師了解當前季度回報貢獻的最有幫助的方式。我認為它們是對簡報後面的回報潛力和前景幻燈片的補充，這反映了我們對預期回報的看法。

Please turn to Slide 9. Rmbs funding markets remain stable and liquid throughout the quarter with ample balance sheet available spreads on repurchase agreements widened slightly into the fourth quarter and year end with financing for RMBS between silver plus 23 to 25 basis points. At quarter end, our weighted average days to maturity for our agency repo was 48 days a days maturity are typically lower at December 31st as we intentionally roll repos past year end to avoid any disruption in funding that can occur in December post quarter. End, we've rolled repos at very attractive spreads, given that even longer-term repos are pricing in five to six rate cuts into 2024, currently about 16% of our repos have floating rate. We finance our MSR across five lenders with $1.6 billion of outstanding borrowings under bilateral facilities and $296 million of outstanding five year term notes. We ended the quarter with a total of 591 million unused MSR financing capacity and $168 million unused capacity for servicing advances.

請翻到投影片 9。人民幣融資市場在整個季度保持穩定和流動性，回購協議的充足資產負債表可用利差在第四季度和年底略有擴大，人民幣支持證券融資在白銀加 23 至 25 個基點之間。在季度末，我們的機構回購協議的加權平均到期日為每天48 天，12 月31 日的到期日通常較低，因為我們有意將回購協議展期到年底，以避免12 月後季度可能發生的融資中斷。最後，我們以非常有吸引力的利差滾動回購協議，因為即使是長期回購協議，到 2024 年也會有五到六次降息，目前我們約 16% 的回購協議採用浮動利率。我們透過五家貸方為我們的 MSR 提供​​資金，其中包括雙邊貸款下 16 億美元的未償借款和 2.96 億美元的未償五年期定期票據。本季結束時，我們共有 5.91 億美元的未使用 MSR 融資能力和 1.68 億美元的未使用服務預付款能力。

I will now turn the call over to Nick.

我現在將把電話轉給尼克。

Thank you, very. Please turn to Slide 10. As Bill discussed, there was no lack of volatility in the fourth quarter following the rise in interest rates in October, mortgage spreads under-performed widening by about 20 basis points rates reversed course in November, and spreads tightened back by about 35 basis points. This tightening trend continued in December with the Fed's strongly signaling that the period of rate hikes was over. Ultimately, current coupon mortgage spreads on a nominal basis finished the quarter at 118 basis points, tighter by 33 basis points. This is at the tighter end of the 2023 range of 100 to 167 basis points. You can see this in figure one, though the spread is still much wider than the longer term. Non-qm average of 80 basis points reflects an environment of high realized rate volatility and tepid demand from depository institutions being at the tighter end of the range is likely the result of the market's expectations of more than five Fed rate cuts priced in for 2020 for a steeper forward curve and lower forward implied volatility.

謝謝你，非常。請翻到投影片 10。正如比爾所討論的，繼 10 月份利率上升之後，第四季度不乏波動，抵押貸款利差表現不佳，擴大了約 20 個基點，11 月份利率逆轉，利差收緊了約 35 個基點。隨著聯準會強烈暗示升息期已經結束，這種緊縮趨勢在 12 月持續。最終，目前以名目利率計息的抵押貸款利差本季結束時為 118 個基點，收窄了 33 個基點。這是 2023 年 100 至 167 個基點區間的較窄端。您可以在圖一中看到這一點，儘管利差仍然比長期要寬得多。80 個基點的非季度平均利率反映了實際利率波動性較高和存款機構需求不溫不火的環境，處於區間較窄的一端，這可能是市場預期聯準會 2020 年將降息五次以上的結果。更陡峭的遠期曲線和較低的遠期隱含波動率。

Putting all that together, while we are positioned to benefit from spread tightening, we still see enough risk to, as Bill said, not go out on a limb as anticipated, reporting prepayment rates broadly declined by 16% in the fourth quarter. This decline reflected weaker seasonals and effective mortgage rates of over 7%, the highest in 20 years, despite 30-year mortgage rates falling by 70 basis points over the quarter to 6.4%, 96% of mortgages remained outside the refinance window.

綜上所述，雖然我們有望從利差收緊中受益，但正如比爾所說，我們仍然看到足夠的風險，不會像預期那樣陷入困境，報告第四季度預付款率普遍下降了16% 。這一下降反映了季節性疲軟和超過7%的有效抵押貸款利率，為20年來的最高水平，儘管30年期抵押貸款利率在本季度下降了70個基點至6.4%，但96%的抵押貸款仍在再融資窗口之外。

One thing I'd like to detail today is how decreasing rates and increasing prepayments could affect our portfolio of MSR. Let's look at this in more detail and Figure two shows projected prepayment rates for our MSR versus a typical current coupon MBS in varying interest rate scenarios being about 300 basis points out of the money prepayment speeds in our MSR remain very insensitive to falling rates. In fact, less than 1% of our balances at 50 basis points or more a rate incentive to refinance the green line in this chart represents our portfolio of MSR. As you can see, even with an instantaneous 200 basis point decline in rates, speeds are projected to only increase to 10 CPR, compare that to the current coupon who speeds could top 60 CPR. I'm sure some of you are thinking that although 10 CPR is still absolutely slow, it's a big increase in what we are experiencing now, that's true, but those expectations are also built into how we actively hedge our MSR.

今天我想詳細說明的一件事是降低利率和增加預付款將如何影響我們的 MSR 投資組合。讓我們更詳細地看一下這個問題，圖二顯示了我們的MSR 的預計提前還款率與典型的當前息票MBS 在不同利率情景下的預付款率大約相差300 個基點，我們的MSR 的貨幣預付款速度對利率下降仍然非常不敏感。事實上，只有不到 1% 的餘額處於 50 個基點或以上的利率激勵下，該圖表中的綠線代表了我們的 MSR 投資組合。正如您所看到的，即使利率瞬間下降 200 個基點，速度預計只會增加到 10 CPR，而當前優惠券的速度可能會超過 60 CPR。我確信你們中的一些人會認為，雖然10 CPR 仍然絕對緩慢，但與我們現在所經歷的相比，這是一個很大的增加，這是事實，但這些期望也融入到我們積極對沖MSR 的方式中。

Turning to the MSR marketplace, as is typical, the pace of sales slowed in the fourth quarter was 53 billion offered in the bulk market. This brings the total MSR offered for the year to just under 500,000,000,020 23 finished as the second most active year in the MSR market falling just behind 2022, total of $525 billion lower supply in the fourth quarter did little to effective traded spreads of MSR speeds remain well supported as evidenced by sellers typically receiving a high single digit number of them.

轉向 MSR 市場，與往常一樣，第四季度銷售速度放緩，散裝市場銷售量為 530 億美元。這使得今年提供的MSR 總量略低於500,000,000,020 23 作為MSR 市場第二活躍的一年，僅落後於2022 年，第四季度供應總量減少5,250 億美元，這對MSR 速度的有效交易價差幾乎沒有影響賣家通常會收到很高的個位數數量，這證明了這一點得到了很好的支持。

Now let's turn to Slide 11 and discuss our portfolio positioning and activity in the fourth quarter. At December 31st, our portfolio was $14.6 billion, including 11 billion of settled positions on the top right of this slide, you will see a few bullets about our risk positioning and leverage as spreads widened in October and our book value decline. We responded by selling some MBS actively lowering our leverage to protect against further losses. Our average leverage for the quarter reflects this decreasing to 5.8 times from 6.3 times at Q3 end following optimistic signs from the Fed in November, we strategically increased our risk and added leverage to the portfolio. This decision proved to be effective and captured most of the tightening of spreads through year end. Our quarter end economic debt to equity was six times for similar reasons that we have outlined in prior calls. We continue to think it is prudent to maintain a neutral leverage position. We don't believe that we need to add more leverage to generate strong returns. As you will see in a few slides when we detail our return outlook.

現在讓我們轉向投影片 11，討論我們第四季的投資組合定位和活動。截至12 月31 日，我們的投資組合為146 億美元，包括這張投影片右上角的110 億美元結算頭寸，隨著10 月份利差擴大和帳面價值下降，您將看到一些關於我們的風險定位和槓桿的要點。我們的應對措施是積極出售一些抵押貸款支持證券，降低槓桿率，以防止進一步損失。我們本季的平均槓桿率從第三季末的 6.3 倍下降到 5.8 倍，繼 11 月聯準會發出樂觀信號後，我們策略性地增加了風險並增加了投資組合的槓桿率。事實證明，這項決定是有效的，並抓住了年底利差收緊的大部分機會。我們季度末的經濟債務股本比是六倍，原因與我們在先前的電話會議中概述的類似。我們仍然認為維持中性槓桿部位是謹慎的做法。我們認為我們不需要增加更多槓桿來產生強勁的回報。正如您將在幾張投影片中看到的那樣，我們將詳細介紹我們的回報前景。

Please turn to Slide 12 to review our agency portfolio Figure one shows the composition of specified pool holdings by coupon and story. And on Figure two, you can see the performance of TBAs and the specified pools we own throughout this quarter, we migrated the portfolio down in coupon by replacing approximately 2.5 billion, 4.5% and 6.5% TBAs with an equal amount of 2.5% to 4% TBAs in order to take advantage of the sharp cheapening of lower coupons that occurred in October additionally, we enhanced liquidity by rotating approximately 1.4 billion to 4.5% specified pools into same coupon TBAs. At quarter end, about 70% of our MBS holdings were in specified pools that we believe offer better relative value than TBAs figure. Three on the bottom right shows our specified pool prepayment speeds decreasing to 5.4 CPR in the fourth quarter from 6.7 CPR in the third quarter. As you can see from the chart on aggregate, speeds for these predominantly discount pools were materially faster than TBAs, hence, providing more return.

請翻到投影片 12 來回顧我們的代理商投資組合 圖一顯示了按優惠券和故事劃分的指定池持有量的組成。在圖二中，您可以看到本季我們擁有的TBA 和指定資金池的表現，我們透過將大約25 億、4.5% 和6.5% 的TBA 替換為等量的2.5% 到4 的TBA，將投資組合的票面利率下調。此外，為了利用 10 月份較低息票大幅貶值的機會，我們透過將約 14 億至 4.5% 的指定資金池轉入相同息票的 TBA 來增強流動性。截至季末，我們約 70% 的 MBS 持有量位於指定池中，我們認為這些池提供的相對價值高於 TBA 的數字。右下角的三個顯示我們指定的池預付款速度從第三季的 6.7 CPR 降至第四季的 5.4 CPR。從整體圖表中可以看出，這些主要折扣池的速度明顯快於 TBA，因此提供了更多回報。

Please turn to Slide 13. Our MSR portfolio was 3 billion in market value at December 31st, which includes the addition of 829 million UPB through flow purchases in the quarter as rates declined in the quarter, the price multiple of our MSR declined from 5.8 to 5.6 times. The prepayment speed of our MSR dropped by 22% to an historically low 3.8 CPR. And our expectation is the prepayment rates were deeply out of the more money mortgages will continue to remain at historically low levels through 2024, providing a tailwind for the strategy. Post quarter end, we signed two term sheets, one to purchase 3 billion UPB of MSR to settle in the first quarter and another to sell 1.5 billion UPB on a servicing retained basis at current spread levels, we prefer investing capital and hedged MSR rather than hedge Securities.

請翻到投影片 13。截至 12 月 31 日，我們的 MSR 投資組合市值為 30 億，其中包括本季因利率下降而透過流量購買增加 8.29 億 UPB，我們的 MSR 的價格倍數從 5.8 倍下降到 5.6 倍。我們的MSR預付速度下降了22%，達到史上最低的3.8 CPR。我們的預期是，提前還款率大幅下降，抵押貸款將在 2024 年之前繼續保持在歷史低位，從而為該策略提供推動力。季末後，我們簽署了兩份條款清單，一份購買30 億UPB 的MSR 以在第一季度結算，另一份在當前利差水平的服務保留基礎上出售15 億UPB，我們更喜歡投資資本和對沖MSR，而不是對沖證券。

Finally, please turn to Slide 14. Our return potential and outlook slide. The top half of this table is meant to show what returns we believe are available in the market. We estimate that about 62% of our capital is allocated to hedged MSR with a market static return projection of 12% to 16%. The remaining capital is allocated to hedge RMBS with a market static return estimate of 10% to 11%. Lower section of the slide is specific to our portfolio with a focus on common equity and estimated returns per common share with our portfolio allocation shown in the top half of the table and after expenses, the static return estimate for our portfolio is between 8.9% to 11.5% before applying any capital structure leverage to the portfolio. After giving effect to our outstanding convertible notes and preferred stock, we believe that the potential static return on common equity falls in the range of 9.9% to 14% or a prospective quarterly static return per share of 38 to $0.53.

最後，請翻到投影片 14。我們的回報潛力和前景發生了下滑。表格的上半部旨在顯示我們認為市場上可以獲得的回報。我們估計約 62% 的資本分配給對沖 MSR，市場靜態回報預測為 12% 至 16%。剩餘資金用於對沖 RMBS，市場靜態回報率預計為 10% 至 11%。幻燈片的下半部分特定於我們的投資組合，重點關注普通股和每股普通股的估計回報，我們的投資組合分配如表上半部分所示，扣除費用後，我們投資組合的靜態回報估計在8.9% 至8.9% 之間在對投資組合應用任何資本結構槓桿之前為 11.5%。在我們已發行的可轉換票據和優先股生效後，我們認為普通股的潛在靜態回報率將在 9.9% 至 14% 之間，或每股預期季度靜態回報率在 38 至 0.53 美元之間。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Very much for joining us today. And now we will be happy to take any questions you might have.

非常感謝您今天加入我們。現在我們很樂意回答您可能提出的任何問題。

Thank you.

謝謝。

And now please ask your question and answer session. If you'd like to be placed in the question queue, please press star one on your telephone keypad. A confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue. You may press star two, if you'd like to remove your question from the queue. One moment, please while we poll for questions.

現在請進行問答環節。如果您想加入問題隊列，請按下電話鍵盤上的一號星星。確認音將表示您的線路已在問題佇列中。如果您想從佇列中刪除您的問題，可以按星號二。請稍等一下，我們進行投票提問。

Our first question is coming from Doug Harter from UBS. Your line is alliance.

我們的第一個問題來自瑞銀集團的道格·哈特。你的路線是聯盟。

Thanks.

謝謝。

And can you talk about what were kind of the factors that are leading you to see the lower returns in the agency MBS hedged with rates and kind of other participants are seeing still seeing kind of 10s returns and kind of hoping you could sort of offer your opinion as to why you're seeing 10% to 11%?

您能否談談是什麼因素導致您看到以利率對沖的機構 MBS 回報較低，而其他參與者仍然看到 10 多美元的回報，並希望您能提供您的你對為什麼看到10% 到11% 有何看法？

Doug, thanks for the question?

道格，謝謝你的提問？

Yes, over the quarter, while spreads did tighten over the quarter, as you know for us specifically, we and again, this is due to the lens of our spreads and how we construct our portfolio on that page and the capital structure of the portfolio, but some which you know can cause differences from person-to-person their institution institution. But in addition, to all those things we did. As you can see from our other slide, we didn't materially go down and compound over the quarter, and these are nominal spreads. And when you go down at some time in mortgages, you can't you do lose spreads. So it's a lot of this spread potential is driven by the coupon selection for mortgages, and it is also just to remind everyone that it is a it is a moment in time, right is just a snapshot of the portfolio at the end of the quarter and it so happened that last quarter from our from relative value reasons, we did think that it made sense to go down in components as we went through the quarter and that creates that gap does negatively impact the return potential of that segment of the portfolio. But it is by no means something that we think is long-term in nature in the sense that as you go. As you well know, we do move our coupon exposure around quite a bit from quarter to quarter. And in fact, over this quarter we have gone back up in coupon. And if we were to rerun this projection today, you would see it are materially higher return projection on that segment of the portfolio. So it really is just a snapshot at the end of last quarter reflects predominantly down in coupon bonds.

是的，在本季度，雖然利差確實在本季度收緊，但正如您對我們的具體了解，我們再次強調，這是由於我們利差的視角以及我們在該頁面上構建投資組合的方式以及投資組合的資本結構，但您知道有些可能會導致個人與機構之間的差異。但除此之外，我們所做的所有這些事情。正如您從我們的另一張幻燈片中看到的那樣，我們在本季度並沒有大幅下降和複利，這些只是名義利差。當你的抵押貸款在某個時候下降時，你就不能損失利差。因此，這種利差潛力很大程度上是由抵押貸款票息選擇驅動的，這也只是提醒大家，這是一個時間點，右圖只是季度末投資組合的快照碰巧的是，從我們的相對價值原因來看，上個季度我們確實認為在整個季度中，成分股的下跌是有意義的，而這造成的差距確實會對投資組合的該部分的回報潛力產生負面影響。但這絕不是我們認為本質上是長期的事情，也就是隨你走的意思。如您所知，我們的優惠券敞口確實在每個季度都有相當大的變化。事實上，本季我們的優惠券有所回升。如果我們今天重新進行此預測，您會發現該投資組合部分的回報率預測要高得多。因此，這實際上只是上季度末的一個快照，主要反映了息票債券的下降。

And I might just add, Doug, good morning. By the way, is that the down in coupon movement in the portfolio that Nick mentioned, we did that from a from a relative value perspective because we thought the total return potential of those of those mortgages would be better than some of the AT1 coupon ones as we moved a portion of the portfolio there. So the lower return potential is a is an artifact of you will, if you will, even though we thought the total return was going to be better by making that move.

我可能會補充一句，道格，早安。順便說一句，尼克提到的投資組合中息票變動的下降，我們是從相對價值的角度這樣做的，因為我們認為這些抵押貸款的總回報潛力會比一些 AT1 息票貸款更好當我們將部分投資組合轉移到那裡時。因此，較低的回報潛力是你願意的人為因素，即使我們認為採取這項措施總回報會更好。

Got it.

知道了。

And just around that total return comment, I guess, how do you think about the timeframe for kind of capturing that total return? And how do you think about the trade-offs on there between current and total return and time to on direct costs?

我想，就總回報評論而言，您如何看待獲得總回報的時間框架？您如何看待當前回報和總回報與直接成本的時間之間的權衡？

Yes, that's a good question. And one that we talk about frequently on when we're making these decisions, I'd say generically, we're thinking about months, right in terms of seeing seeing the relative value opportunity play out over time, but it's certainly not days on. We're thinking about longer timescale than that. And we generally expect them to occur on less than a year or so. I'd say the timescale is generally a few months.

是的，這是一個好問題。當我們做出這些決定時，我們經常談論的一個問題，我想說的是，一般來說，我們會考慮幾個月的時間，就看到相對價值機會隨著時間的推移而發揮作用，但這肯定不是幾天的時間。我們正在考慮比這更長的時間範圍。我們通常預計它們會在不到一年左右的時間內發生。我想說的時間範圍通常是幾個月。

The other thing is what I mentioned about the return potential calculation, as I'm sure you guys know, there's a lot of technicalities in our market and how people look at things. You know, we tend to look at things, our spreads and we look at them versus the entire curve rather than just looking at things versus a blend of, for example, the five 10 market share curves inverted. So if you do run mortgages against the whole curve, you tend to get tighter spreads than you do. If you just look at something versus the longer end of the curve. And that's I think that also was a factor that plays into how we look at things versus others. And of course, it's just dependent on the leverage that we're seeing also. I mean, that's a big factor as to how those numbers get determined. But it's really, as I said, a moment in time and and it is Southern will move around, as you know.

另一件事是我提到的關於潛在回報的計算，我相信你們都知道，我們的市場中有很多技術細節以及人們如何看待事物。你知道，我們傾向於關注事物，我們的利差，我們將它們與整個曲線進行對比，而不是僅僅關注事物與混合曲線，例如，五個 10 市場份額曲線的倒轉。因此，如果您確實針對整個曲線進行抵押貸款，您往往會獲得比實際情況更窄的利差。如果你只看某件事與曲線較長的一端。我認為這也是影響我們如何看待事物與其他事物的因素。當然，這也取決於我們所看到的槓桿作用。我的意思是，這是如何確定這些數字的一個重要因素。但正如我所說，這確實是一個時刻，而且正如你所知，南方會移動。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Your next question today is coming from Trevor Cranston from JMP Securities.

今天您的下一個問題來自 JMP 證券的 Trevor Cranston。

Your line is Nahla.

你的線路是Nahla。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Good morning. I'm sorry, another question on the on the return potential slide. You guys have been earning a pretty decent amount of float income on the MSR portfolio and when we look at the forward return projections on slide 14, does that incorporate the impact of lower forward Fed funds on the float income component of the MSR and and also funding expenses.

早安.抱歉，關於回報潛力幻燈片的另一個問題。你們在 MSR 投資組合上賺取了相當可觀的浮動收入，當我們查看幻燈片 14 上的遠期回報預測時，這是否包含了較低的遠期聯邦基金對 MSR 浮動收入部分的影響，以及資金支出。

And I guess generally if you guys, you guys can just comment on kind of how you think about the impact of lower Fed funds being on the portfolio as a whole thing?

我想一般來說，你們可以評論一下你們如何看待聯準會資金減少對整個投資組合的影響？

Yes, good morning.

是的，早安。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Thanks for the question, Tom. So yes, the downward sloping on a curve is incorporated into the float earnings of the MSR asset and of course, the entire subject of float is one that we actively hedge the interest rate risks of, right, so that I wouldn't say that that we experienced a windfall when rates rose and we won't experience a large decline in book value when when and if rates fall, because we're hedging that exposure.

謝謝你的提問，湯姆。所以，是的，向下傾斜的曲線已納入 MSR 資產的浮存收益中，當然，整個浮存收益是我們積極對沖利率風險的一個主題，對吧，所以我不會這麼說當利率上升時，我們會經歷一筆意外之財，而當利率下降時，我們的帳面價值不會大幅下降，因為我們正在對沖這種風險。

Right?

正確的？

And so that is also the answer to the question of what happens to our portfolio if the Fed cuts and if funding rates are short term rates fall, right? Is that because our portfolio is hedged across the curve, right on we did see and as a result, our portfolio returns and how that slide of the return potential is really constructed dependent really on the spread right between the asset and and the I'll say, longer term rates, but outstanding, what Nick just said about not being one point on the curve, that's true of every point that we hedge on the curve. But that's a complexity on the spread of the asset relative to the risk-free curve that matters and not and not the funding rate itself. And so I'd say to zero to order that hedge. And if you want to talk about it more completely, I think it actually the returns would go down slightly because of the risk-free rate that's earned on the equity

因此，這也是以下問題的答案：如果聯準會降息並且融資利率是短期利率下降，我們的投資組合會發生什麼，對嗎？是因為我們的投資組合是在曲線上對沖的，我們確實看到了，因此，我們的投資組合回報以及回報潛力的下滑實際上是如何構建的，實際上取決於資產和資產之間的利差。比如說，長期利率，但很突出，尼克剛才所說的不是曲線上的一個點，這對於我們在曲線上對沖的每個點都是如此。但重要的是資產利差相對於無風險曲線的複雜性，而不是融資利率本身。所以我會說零來訂購對沖。如果你想更全面地討論它，我認為實際上回報率會略有下降，因為股權賺取的無風險利率

but let me go to your base question.

但讓我談談你的基本問題。

Those calculations all assume that the forward curve is realized. So we do that. Those are all embedded in the calculation.

這些計算都假設遠期曲線已實現。所以我們就這麼做了。這些都包含在計算中。

Right.

正確的。

Okay.

好的。

That makes a lot of sense.

這很有意義。

And then, Bill, you talked about some of the opportunities for growth in the servicing business in particular. I was wondering if you could maybe expand a little bit on that and talk about sort of how you see on the magnitude of potential growth on the subservicing side of things specifically over the next couple of years?

然後，比爾，您特別談到了服務業務的一些成長機會。我想知道您是否可以對此進行一些擴展，並談談您如何看待未來幾年特別是在服務方面的潛在增長？

Yes.

是的。

Sure.

當然。

Well, you know, as I said in my remarks, the interesting thing that's happened in the sub servicing market over the last year or two is that on rates have risen so much in the in the mortgage universe as has been well described by us and others on has and has an average dollar price of 80 and is yielding more than 300 basis points out of the money. And so the risk characteristics of the asset is something that hasn't really been seen before. Probably you see it a little bit on the chart that Nick talked about from his presentation where we showed the relative S curves from the portfolio. On page, of course, I'll touch on what our where where where we show that if rates fall 200 basis points on page 10 on that, the prepayments on our portfolio that aren't expected to increase very much on it has very low prepayment sensitivity has very low convexity, right? And so it's just a risk profile has not been seen before. And as a result, we're seeing lots of interest from market participants. We are not the usual cast of characters that are buying MSRs. And there's been lots of structures that have been created in the marketplace in order to help those nontraditional market participants invest in the MSR market. And I think there's lots of reasons why we are the best subservicing partner for those new investors, chief among them, being that that we have 200 billion of our own servicing. That is at round point. And we will be subject to the exact same of results of the subservicing platform, round point as any third party clients that we bring into. I'm not like to say that we are managing subservicing and for MSR investors by MSR investors, meaning that we know exactly what MSR investors like to see and trying to extract the value from the cash flows and so forth. There's other reasons as well. We're well capitalized institution on a which provides the wherewithal to invest in and invest in infrastructure and deal with any any market uncertainties that occurred. And so I think for all those reasons, and this is one area that we're going to focus on as being able to grow our subservicing business and from that perspective, yes.

嗯，你知道，正如我在演講中所說，過去一兩年次級服務市場發生的有趣的事情是，抵押貸款領域的利率上升了很多，正如我們和我們所描述的那樣其他國家的平均價格為80 美元，其價外收益超過300 個基點。因此，該資產的風險特徵是以前從未真正見過的。也許您在尼克在演講中談到的圖表上看到了一點，我們在其中顯示了投資組合的相對 S 曲線。當然，在這一頁上，我會談到我們在第 10 頁上顯示的情況，即如果利率下降 200 個基點，我們投資組合中的預付款項預計不會增加太多，但其金額非常低預付款敏感度的凸度非常低，對嗎？所以這只是以前從未見過的風險狀況。因此，我們看到市場參與者表現出了濃厚的興趣。我們並不是通常會購買 MSR 的人。市場上已經創建了許多結構來幫助那些非傳統市場參與者投資 MSR 市場。我認為我們成為這些新投資者的最佳服務合作夥伴有很多原因，其中最主要的是我們擁有 2000 億美元的服務。那是在圓點處。我們將受到與我們引入的任何第三方客戶完全相同的服務平台結果的約束。我不想說我們正在管理 MSR 投資者的服務並為 MSR 投資者提供服務，這意味著我們確切地知道 MSR 投資者喜歡看到什麼，並試圖從現金流等中提取價值。還有其他原因。我們是一家資本充足的機構，能夠提供必要的資金來投資和投資基礎設施，並應對發生的任何市場不確定性。因此，我認為出於所有這些原因，這是我們將重點關注的一個領域，因為能夠發展我們的服務業務，從這個角度來看，是的。

Okay, that's helpful.

好的，這很有幫助。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Your next question is coming from Eric Hagen from BTIG. Your line is now live.

您的下一個問題來自 BTIG 的 Eric Hagen。您的線路現已上線。

As the morning goes. So how do you feel like you controlled for recapture in the MSR without an origination platform? And how has security you feel like that is and do you have an estimate for how much MSR you might need to buy if mortgage rates were like 50 or 75 basis points lower than they are today?

隨著早晨的過去。那麼，在沒有發起平台的情況下，您感覺如何在 MSR 中控制了奪回？如果抵押貸款利率比現在低 50 或 75 個基點，您是否估計您可能需要購買多少 MSR？

I'm not sure I understood the second question, but the first question is, but the answer to the first question is that we have a we as we said in our prepared remarks, we have hired an experienced professional to begin the build-out of a recapture or portfolio defense strategy on in order to provide that not only to our own to our own portfolio, but also to many third party clients that we have on that process is ongoing. We're hiring people, we're filling roles. And as we said in the prepared remarks, we expect some to be able to be making loans in Q2.

我不確定我是否理解第二個問題，但第一個問題是，但第一個問題的答案是，正如我們在準備好的發言中所說，我們已經聘請了一位經驗豐富的專業人士來開始擴建重新奪回或投資組合防禦策略的實施，不僅為我們自己的投資組合提供，而且為我們在過程中擁有的許多第三方客戶提供。我們正在招募人員，我們正在填補職缺。正如我們在準備好的發言中所說，我們預計一些人能夠在第二季度發放貸款。

Again, looking at page 10 and looking at how far out of the money our servicing portfolio is on, we feel like we have time there's no particular urgency to this, although we are certainly acting with with due haste in order to build it on as quickly, but as prudently as we can on and again, the main point here is we're not going to be a a retail originator. We're not going to be a somebody's going to compete with the largest guys out in the world. The point of this thing is really to protect our servicing portfolio to defend our portfolio to perform recapture on our portfolio. And we're really excited about the opportunity and the ability to be able to build this thing from scratch.

再次，看看第 10 頁，看看我們的服務組合的資金投入有多遠，我們覺得我們有時間，這並不是特別緊迫，儘管我們確實正在迅速採取行動，以便將其建立在快速但盡可能謹慎地一次又一次，這裡的要點是我們不會成為零售創辦人。我們不會成為與世界上最大的公司競爭的人。這件事的重點實際上是保護我們的服務組合，保護我們的投資組合，以重新奪回我們的投資組合。我們對能夠從頭開始建立這個東西的機會和能力感到非常興奮。

And Eric, if I can build on this is Nick. I will build on what Bill said. I think to your second question which I also didn't fully understand, but as that slide shows the dollar versus one page 10 partners who are very smart money and be done with a reasonable value stays low so we're not there. We're going to be very, very surprising if we were to see a wrapper rapid amortization on our on our MSR asset and so on. We are as we also said in our prepared comments, and I we really like the of the current strategy. As you know, we like it right now. It looks great rate of return potential So we our intention is no new capital as we have to keep adding to it. But we don't really see paydowns being a big issue for the near future.

艾瑞克（Eric），如果我可以在此基礎上發展的話，那就是尼克（Nick）。我將以比爾所說的為基礎。我認為對於您的第二個問題，我也沒有完全理解，但由於該幻燈片顯示美元與一頁10的合作夥伴相比，這些合作夥伴非常聰明，並且以合理的價值完成，因此我們不在那裡。如果我們看到 MSR 資產等的包裝快速攤銷，我們將會非常非常驚訝。正如我們在準備好的評論中所說的那樣，我們真的很喜歡當前的策略。如你所知，我們現在喜歡它。看起來回報率潛力很大，所以我們的意圖不是新資本，因為我們必須不斷增加資本。但我們並不認為付款在不久的將來會成為一個大問題。

Okay.

好的。

Yes.

是的。

Thanks for fleshing that out. You guys talked about a neutral leverage position. But if you do see growth opportunities in the MSR, I mean, is there room for that to change and what are the parameters for the change, especially if the Fed cuts rates, I mean, do you feel like you would still run with this level of leverage and how much flexibility. Do you feel like you have there?

感謝您充實這一點。你們談到了中性槓桿位置。但如果你確實看到了 MSR 的成長機會，我的意思是，是否有改變的空間以及改變的參數是什麼，特別是如果聯準會降息，我的意思是，你覺得你仍然會這樣做嗎？槓桿水平和靈活性。你覺得你在那裡嗎？

Perfect.

完美的。

In terms of leverage?

就槓桿而言？

Yes, definitely, we are running and we think it's a neutral territory, as we said, again, in our prepared remarks, spreads are at the tighter end of recent ranges. And we think that price in a lot of what the market expects the Fed to do perhaps too much, but there's still no fault there, still volatile finance ahead of us, and we think spreads are kind of two sides right now. We know so well, look, lots of things can change this year that there are we are we have a year coming up with a big election coming up and a lot of ramifications and geopolitical tensions and other things, you know, so we're hoping that we're going to just see where the market takes us and what makes the most sense, but for the near future. And then we kind of see ourselves as being in this kind of leverage posture.

是的，當然，我們正在運行，我們認為這是一個中性領域，正如我們在準備好的演講中再次說過的，利差處於近期範圍的較窄端。我們認為，市場預期聯準會將採取的許多行動的價格可能過高，但這仍然沒有問題，我們面前的金融市場仍然不穩定，我們認為利差目前是兩方面的。我們非常清楚，看，今年很多事情都可能發生變化，我們即將迎來一場重大選舉，會產生很多影響、地緣政治緊張局勢和其他事情，你知道，所以我們希望我們能看到市場將我們帶往何處以及什麼是最有意義的，但在不久的將來。然後我們就認為自己處於這種槓桿狀態。

Got it.

知道了。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank Your next question is coming from Kenneth Lee from RBC Capital Markets. Your line is Allied.

謝謝您的下一個問題來自 RBC 資本市場的 Kenneth Lee。你的線路是盟軍的。

Good morning.

早安.

Thanks for taking my question on in terms of the I extend the report in the quarter. Wonder if you could just further expand upon the portfolio activity that you mentioned in the prepared remarks that potentially impacted IXM in the quarter?

感謝您就我在本季延長報告提出的問題。想知道您是否可以進一步擴展您在準備好的評論中提到的可能會在本季度影響 IXM 的投資組合活動？

Thanks.

謝謝。

Sure.

當然。

So as discussed here, we did some we did go down a coupon, which of was it wasn't it wasn't a factor that took our item down for the quarter, our 1404 for the quarter as well as Yes, as we mentioned, we did sell some mortgages when things wind down in October, which was which we thought was prudent just given the environment at the time. And as you know, as you'll know from our prior calls, we've been talking about the fact that going into last quarter, we the market was different than it was prior. And we just feel like there was money managers had pretty impressive, pretty big overweight in the market and they were so volatile. That's ahead of us. So we decided in that in that time slice of cake to reduce our exposure to mortgages. And that Rich mentioned comments and marinate. We did have reduced balances for the portfolio for a period of time and a little lower leverage. All of those things did impact our high income for the quarter, but as I discussed, we did we did buy back some mortgages, bring back our leverage up, and we have also gone back up in coupon since the end of the quarter. So all of those things enough for this quarter, we think will have a positive effect in the other direction.

因此，正如這裡所討論的，我們做了一些我們確實降低了優惠券的事情，這不是我們的產品在本季度下降的因素，我們本季度的 1404 以及是的，正如我們提到的十月份事情結束時，我們確實出售了一些抵押貸款，考慮到當時的環境，我們認為這是謹慎的做法。如您所知，正如您從我們之前的電話中了解到的那樣，我們一直在談論這樣一個事實：進入上個季度，我們的市場與之前有所不同。我們只是覺得市場上有些基金經理人的增持力度非常大，而且波動性很大。那是在我們前面。因此，我們在那段時間決定減少抵押貸款風險。里奇提到了評論和醃製。我們確實在一段時間內減少了投資組合的餘額，並降低了槓桿率。所有這些事情確實影響了我們本季的高收入，但正如我所討論的，我們確實回購了一些抵押貸款，提高了槓桿率，自本季度末以來，我們的票面也有所回升。因此，所有這些事情對於本季來說已經足夠了，我們認為將會在另一個方向上產生正面的影響。

I might just add a couple more thoughts if I can, which is even even without portfolio activity, there is natural variation in the in the backward-looking eye exam that occurs just from some timing of cash flows. You know, MSR is not a bond it doesn't pay at a fixed coupon every month. Price of some people pay their mortgage payment and therefore they're servicing on the 31st of the month. And therefore, they don't have to pay any for the next month or sometimes they paid on the first and then the 30th. So there's two in one month versus another. There's all kinds of interesting timing of cash flows on the MSR asset that occur, right.

如果可以的話，我可能會補充一些想法，即使沒有投資組合活動，回顧性眼科檢查中也會存在自然變化，這種變化只是在現金流的某些時間點發生的。您知道，MSR 不是債券，它每月不支付固定息票。有些人支付抵押貸款的價格，因此他們在本月 31 日提供服務。因此，他們不需要支付下個月的任何費用，或者有時他們在第一個月付款，然後在 30 號付款。所以一個月內有兩次與另一個月發生兩次。MSR 資產的現金流發生了各種有趣的時機，對吧。

And also, of course, you know, we know that the eye exam, the backward-looking eye exam also reflects actual prepayment speeds So prepayment speeds come in slower than we thought or slower than projected. That will be a benefit if they come in faster than expected, that would be done. So even without any portfolio activity. There's natural variation at at the at the quarter end on media. We think of all of that being considered or take into consideration the forward looking projection on slide 15, there is a good estimate of what we think the portfolio we learned and as Nick said earlier from that snapshot at the end of the quarter is actually lower than it would be if the rents today by a couple of hundred basis points probably and so on. Given all that and how that corresponds the dividend, we feel pretty good Kroger culture.

當然，我們知道眼科檢查、後視眼科檢查也反映了實際的預付款速度，因此預付款速度比我們想像的慢或比預期的慢。如果他們比預期來得更快，那將是一個好處，那就好了。即使沒有任何投資組合活動也是如此。季度末媒體上存在自然變化。我們認為所有這些都被考慮或考慮到幻燈片15 上的前瞻性預測，對我們認為我們學到的投資組合有一個很好的估計，正如尼克早些時候從本季度末的快照中所說的那樣，實際上是較低的如果今天的租金可能上漲幾百個基點，等等。考慮到所有這些以及與股息的對應方式，我們感覺克羅格文化相當不錯。

Very helpful there.

那裡非常有幫助。

And just one follow up on the potential expansion on the round point, the DTC channel, wondering how should we think about potential need for investments or spending along with those efforts?

關於圓點潛在擴張的一個後續行動，DTC 管道，想知道我們應該如何考慮與這些努力一起投資或支出的潛在需求？

Thanks.

謝謝。

Yes, we think that we think the capital investment for that activity will be pretty low. The intent is not for us to originate these loans and hold them.

是的，我們認為該活動的資本投資將相當低。我們的目的不是要發起並持有這些貸款。

All right. We will we will do what was is normally done at these sorts of things which will originate loans and sell them directly to the agencies right and we'll keep the servicing for ourselves, of course. And the idea is that this is just going to replace the servicing that otherwise would have runoff, right and would have disappeared and the benefit of having it in-house and having the recapture thing is that we can keep the servicing. We keep the loans on the round point platform rather than having them refinance away, right? So that's the whole idea of what we're trying to do.

好的。我們將做這類事情通常所做的事情，即發放貸款並將其直接出售給正確的機構，當然，我們將保留自己的服務。我們的想法是，這將取代原本會流失的服務，並且會消失，而將其保留在內部並重新捕獲的好處是我們可以保留服務。我們將貸款保留在圓點平台上，而不是讓它們再融資，對嗎？這就是我們正在嘗試做的事情的全部想法。

I'm with this direct-to-consumer channel Dacheng.

我是大成這個直接面對消費者的頻道。

Very helpful there.

那裡非常有幫助。

Thanks again.

再次感謝。

Yes.

是的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Your next question is coming from Bose George from KBW. Your line is now.

您的下一個問題來自 KBW 的 Bose George。你的線路現在是。

Good morning.

早安.

Actually, could we get an update on your book value quarter-to-date?

實際上，我們可以獲得您季度至今帳面價值的最新資訊嗎？

Yes. As of as of the close of Friday, we think that book value is up between 1.1% and 1.5% and Okay, great.

是的。截至週五收盤，我們認為帳面價值上漲了 1.1% 至 1.5%，好吧，太好了。

Thanks. And then in the range in your target sort of eye exams, the what takes you to the high end versus low end? Is that a lot of bit prepayment expectations or just curious, and it drives that range pay bonuses and we thank you for the question.

謝謝。然後，在您的目標眼科檢查範圍內，是什麼讓您達到高端與低端？這是許多提前付款的期望還是只是好奇，它推動了薪資獎金的範圍，我們感謝您提出這個問題。

We have the various factors that go into that range among them would be or your prepayment assumptions as well as in our some of our funding assumptions and those are things that are our primary primary drivers of that range.

我們有進入該範圍的各種因素，其中包括您的預付款假設以及我們的一些融資假設，這些是我們該範圍的主要驅動因素。

Okay, thanks. And then just in terms of where that number is intraquarter, did Bill, did you say it's going to back up a couple of hundred basis points.

好的謝謝。然後，就該數字在季度內的情況而言，比爾，你是否說過它將支持幾百個基點。

Is that what you said?

是你說的嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Again, as Nick and I both said, it moves around with the portfolio and so forth. But actually given our current current coupon distribution and so forth, yes, that's about the right magnitude focus on security side of the portfolio, not on the combined thing. If you look at the RBS part, which is 10 to 11. That's probably 200 basis points higher given our portfolio right now, but not in the overall.

正如尼克和我都說過的，它會隨著投資組合等的變化而變化。但實際上考慮到我們目前的票面分配等情況，是的，這大約是對投資組合安全的正確關注，而不是對綜合事物的關注。如果你看一下蘇格蘭皇家銀行的部分，那就是 10 比 11。考慮到我們目前的投資組合，這可能高出 200 個基點，但總體而言並非如此。

Okay.

好的。

And the overall it would you could you characterize them as the overall

總體而言，您可以將它們描述為總體

well, you just multiply by the relative capital allocations of that, so that 38% times the size of the tumor.

好吧，你只需乘以相對資本分配，也就是腫瘤大小的 38%。

And okay, okay, great. Thanks.

好吧，好吧，太棒了。謝謝。

Yes.

是的。

Your next question is coming from Rick Shane from JPMorgan. Your line is now live from.

您的下一個問題來自摩根大通的 Rick Shane。您的線路現已上線。

Thanks, guys for taking my questions this morning. I'm just wanted to talk a little bit about on the use of the ATM during the quarter. I'm curious if this is going to be something we should expect going forward more aggressively when we do the math, it looks like you did the offering a little bit below $14 per share on an even on a sort of mark to market basis. If we go back to your comments last quarter at this time about where this where book value was intra-quarter, it looks like the offerings were dilutive to book modestly.

謝謝大家今天早上回答我的問題。我只是想談談本季 ATM 的使用情況。我很好奇，當我們進行數學計算時，我們是否應該期待更積極地向前推進，看起來您的發行價格略低於每股 14 美元，甚至按市價計算。如果我們回到上個季度此時關於帳面價值在季度內的評論，看起來這些產品對於適度的預訂來說是稀釋的。

Can you talk about the rationale for that, please?

您能談談這樣做的理由嗎？

Yes, sure. Thanks, Rick. It is correct, right. We also saw that as modestly dilutive to book on the rationale is the same as what we said when we raised capital in in February of 2023. We think that it is most at a sort of mechanical level that that even at a slight discount to book the dilution of the expenses on means that the return on the investments of that solution is still quite high, certainly higher than our cost of capital in the you know, I'd say mid double digits by that I mean, 30%, 40%, somewhere in that in those sorts of numbers on. And also, as we always say, we have to have had something to do with the money and we think we do, right, which is to buy more MSR with that money in February, of course, we did that right away today. We're looking for for pools on to buy that fit our criteria. But with the round Point acquisition, the earnings that we make on new MSR purchases are greater than the existing MSR that we have in our portfolio because the marginal cost of service goes down with the more loans that we have on the platform and so on, it's really very powerful, a set of mass. They are to take that money and invest in us and invest in new MSR where we are the servicer and we get the benefits of economies of scale that we thought that paying a slight dilution today was well worth it for those reasons.

是的，當然。謝謝，瑞克。這是正確的，對的。我們也認為，適度稀釋帳面價值的理由與我們在 2023 年 2 月籌集資金時所說的相同。我們認為，從某種程度上來說，即使以輕微的折扣來攤薄費用，也意味著該解決方案的投資回報率仍然相當高，肯定高於我們的資本成本。你知道，我想說的是中間兩位數，我的意思是，30%、40%，在這些數字中的某個地方。而且，正如我們常說的，我們必須與這筆錢有關，我們認為我們確實這樣做了，對的，那就是在二月份用這筆錢購買更多的MSR，當然，我們今天就這樣做了。我們正在尋找符合我們標準的池子進行購買。但透過 Round Point 收購，我們購買新的 MSR 所獲得的收益將大於我們投資組合中現有的 MSR，因為服務的邊際成本隨著我們在平台上擁有的貸款越多而下降，等等，它真的非常強大，一組品質。他們將拿這筆錢投資我們，投資新的 MSR，我們是服務商，我們獲得規模經濟的好處，我們認為，出於這些原因，今天支付輕微的稀釋是非常值得的。

Got it. Thank you.

知道了。謝謝。

And then on there was some repurchase of the prefs as well on is that just an arbitrage when you see the implied yield on the prefs approaching the yield on the common you'll step in? Or how should we think about that?

然後，還有一些偏好的回購，當您看到偏好的隱含收益率接近您將介入的普通股的收益率時，這只是套利嗎？或者說我們該如何思考這個問題？

What Trovix it seems like it was across all three of them it.

Trovix 看起來就像是他們三個身上的樣子。

Hey, yes. So as you know, we've been for the last for a long time. We've been managing our capital structure and we do consistently constantly evaluate where our crops are trading relative to our assets and where that arbitrage lies. And I think and as you guys know, from prior times and that we have been seeking a all else being equal to reduce our share, perhaps as some of our total loans as a percentage of our total shareholder equity. So those things last quarter, they did align and the prefs as we did. So we did buy back a little over 200 to 200,000 shares of press, which is that activity will continue to do should they trade at an attractive level, as you said, relative to where our investments are.

嘿，是的。如您所知，我們已經很長時間了。我們一直在管理我們的資本結構，並且我們始終如一地不斷評估我們的農作物相對於我們的資產的交易情況以及套利所在。我認為，正如你們所知，從以前開始，我們一直在尋求在其他條件相同的情況下減少我們的份額，也許是我們總貸款佔股東權益總額的百分比。因此，上個季度的這些事情，他們確實像我們一樣調整了偏好。因此，我們確實回購了略多於 200 至 200,000 股的新聞股，也就是說，如果它們的交易價格相對於我們的投資而言具有吸引力，正如您所說，那麼活動將繼續進行。

Okay.

好的。

That's it for me, guys.

我就是這樣，夥計們。

Thank you, sir.

謝謝你，先生。

Your next question is coming from Arren Cyganovich from Citi.

您的下一個問題來自花旗銀行的 Arren Cyganovich。

Your line is now live base. And then the question I have is more on the spread tightening that happened in the fourth quarter or I believe that you typically have your portfolio to benefit from spread tightening. What did the book value not benefit from the spread tightening and then November and December?

您的線路現已上線。然後我的問題更多是關於第四季度發生的利差收緊，或者我相信你的投資組合通常會從利差收緊中受益。帳面價值沒有受益於利差收緊以及隨後的11月和12月有什麼好處？

Eric?

艾瑞克？

Well, I mean it did you know the the if you look at the progression of our yard in the quarter at our last quarterly call, which I think was right at the end of October, beginning of November, we reported an approximate book value decline of about 6% at that time, and yet we ended up the quarter and that's up to so there was a material reversal and other things in the quarter such as such as our ATM issuance, no things that did that did impact our TRS would have been higher, for example, if we haven't done that, but we did it. As mentioned in the comments, we did decide, I think, prudently at the time to to sell some mortgages in October as well. As the book value was declining. And then we did immediately in November when there was a supply chain start buying them back. But you know, when you when you engage in that kind of activity, it does tend to impact the book value. Not mind you if you look at if you look at our risks at the end of last quarter, we had something like a time in order to accomplish that, something like a 6% positive book value for a 25 basis point tightening in mortgages and which is not the same as some of our peers that are just more purely an agency spreads play. As we've discussed our capital structure where we have 38% of our capital in mortgages and the majority in MSR is going to not give us the same amount of volatility and exposure to mortgage spreads in both direction of driving them in the third quarter of last year, we vastly outperformed our peers when mortgage spreads widen in the prior quarter was the opposite, and that's by construction. And this is why you're not going to see the same kind of numbers. One of us, generally speaking should convert some of our other peers when you have mortgages, breadth of growth.

好吧，我的意思是，你知道嗎，如果你在我們上一次季度電話會議上查看本季度我們船廠的進展情況，我認為是在 10 月底、11 月初，我們報告了賬面價值的大致下降當時約為6％，但我們結束了本季度，因此本季度出現了重大逆轉和其他事情，例如我們的ATM 發行，沒有任何事情確實影響了我們的TRS例如，如果我們沒有這樣做，但我們已經這樣做了，那麼就會更高。正如評論中提到的，我認為，我們當時也確實謹慎地決定在 10 月出售一些抵押貸款。隨著帳面價值不斷下降。然後我們在 11 月立即採取了行動，當時供應鏈開始回購它們。但你知道，當你從事這類活動時，它確實會影響帳面價值。不介意你看看我們上季度末的風險，我們有一段時間來實現這一目標，例如抵押貸款緊縮 25 個基點，帳面價值為 6%，這與我們的一些同行不同，他們只是更純粹的機構利差遊戲。正如我們所討論的，我們的資本結構中有38% 的資本用於抵押貸款，而大部分資本用於MSR，這不會給我們帶來相同程度的波動性和抵押貸款利差風險，從而推動第三季的抵押貸款利差。去年，當抵押貸款利差擴大時，我們的表現大大優於同行，而上一季的情況恰恰相反，而且是建築業。這就是為什麼你不會看到相同類型的數字。一般來說，當你有抵押貸款、成長的廣度時，我們中的一個人應該轉變我們的其他一些同行。

Yes, I said I've touched on a couple of comments. You know, I think Nick said on the salient point, which is that our capital structure, our asset allocation rather than only has 38% of our assets, allocates RMBS of a pure AC strategy is going to return 10% in a quarter like this, we only have 38% of that. So it's going to be high 3% sort of number. And then there's other things on top of that in terms of how people hedge or various other things that could go into impacting that. But the point is that our portfolio is by choice meant to emphasize maybe overemphasize the MSR part of the portfolio is 62% of our capital structure. And we think the round Point acquisition is going to be able to add even more revenue to that part of the strategy.

是的，我說過我已經談到了一些評論。你知道，我認為尼克說的重點是，我們的資本結構、我們的資產配置而不是只有 38% 的資產，配置純 AC 策略的 RMBS 將在這樣一個季度內回報 10% ，我們只有 38%。所以這將是 3% 左右的高數字。除此之外，還有其他因素，例如人們如何對沖或其他可能影響這一點的因素。但重點是，我們的投資組合是有意強調的，也許過度強調了投資組合中的 MSR 部分占我們資本結構的 62%。我們認為收購 Round Point 將能夠為該策略的這一部分增加更多收入。

Right.

正確的。

And then the RMBS, which is 38%, right, serves to hedge the interest rate risk in the mortgage risk of the MSR portfolio and also to provide historic liquidity for rainy days and so forth. But the result of that is that we did we just have less exposure to mortgage spreads, then portfolios without agency MSR, where we are without agency MSR. And we like that on. And that's the strategy that we're pursuing.

然後，RMBS，即38%，對吧，用於對沖MSR投資組合抵押貸款風險中的利率風險，並為未雨綢繆提供歷史性的流動性等等。但這樣做的結果是，我們對抵押貸款利差的曝險較小，然後是沒有機構 MSR 的投資組合，而我們沒有機構 MSR。我們喜歡這樣。這就是我們正在追求的策略。

And we think it's really good.

我們認為這真的很好。

Okay.

好的。

And then on the direct to consumer build-out, sounds like you're doing that organically versus going out to acquire something. What would that's reminiscent of doing that versus going to buy something that's existing.

然後，在直接面向消費者的建設方面，聽起來你是在有機地做這件事，而不是出去買東西。這讓人想起這樣做與購買現有的東西相比。

And then would you be in addition to protecting the MSR, would you be marketing outside of your existing on servicing mortgages?

那麼，除了保護 MSR 之外，您還會在現有的抵押貸款服務之外進行行銷嗎？

Or would it be kind of just more specifically targeted at your own at your end, yet the benefits of building versus buying the same is as any kind of decision like I say it is about, you know, about remodeling your house rather than buying an existing one. It's great you get the thing that you want right? And with this environment and lots of lots of other structures out there are companies out there that are upside down on costs are built for a different environment or have legacy risks of some time. We don't want to be involved in any that we're going to build the platform that we want. That's and that's perfectly suited for our needs.

或者只是更具體地針對您自己的情況，但建造與購買相同的好處就像我所說的任何類型的決定一樣，您知道，關於改造您的房子而不是購買房屋現有的一個。得到你想要的東西真是太好了，對嗎？在這種環境和許多其他結構中，有些公司的成本是顛倒的，是為不同的環境而建立的，或者在一段時間內存在遺留風險。我們不想參與任何我們要建立我們想要的平台的事情。這非常適合我們的需求。

Right?

正確的？

And I don't feel like we are stressed for time here because of where on from the gross value of our portfolio and the current outlook of rates, we're just miles and miles away from being able to refinance. And so on we have the time it's not going to take forever to build this thing. As I said, no, it's going to be just measured in months, right, not years. And so we have the time we're going to build exactly what we want on. We're going to have no legacy issues or risks, right? I'm going to focus on on recapture on our portfolio. That's the main thing we're doing here. You asked whether we're going to go out and tried to market to the whole world and so forth. That's really a very different business model than what we have in mind. We're really focused on portfolio defense and the capture of our portfolio.

我不覺得我們在這裡的時間有壓力，因為從我們投資組合的總價值和當前的利率前景來看，我們離能夠再融資只有很長的路要走。所以我們有時間來建造這個東西，不會花很長時間。正如我所說，不，它只會以月為單位來衡量，對吧，而不是以年為單位。所以我們有時間來建造我們想要的東西。我們不會有遺留問題或風險，對吧？我將專注於重新奪回我們的投資組合。這是我們在這裡做的主要事情。你問我們是否要走出去，試著向全世界推銷等等。這確實是一種與我們想像的非常不同的商業模式。我們真正關注的是投資組合防禦和投資組合的捕獲。

Okay, got it.

好，知道了。

That's the Johns Benderson. The alternative would be pretty expensive about Emageon, but I think Yes, Jack, thanks very much, and thank you.

那是約翰·本德森。Emageon 的替代方案會相當昂貴，但我認為是的，傑克，非常感謝，謝謝你。

We've reached the end of our question-and-answer session. I'd like to turn the floor back over for any further or closing comments.

我們的問答環節已經結束。我想重新發言以徵求進一步的意見或結束意見。

I want to thank everyone for joining us today, and thank you as always, for your interest in Two Harbors.

我要感謝大家今天加入我們，並一如既往地感謝你們對兩港的興趣。

Thank you.

謝謝。

That does conclude today's teleconference webcast. May disconnect your lines at this time and have a wonderful day. We thank you for your participation today.

今天的電話會議網路廣播到此結束。可能會在此時斷開您的線路並度過美好的一天。我們感謝您今天的參與。