Grupo Televisa, S.A.B. (TV) 2026 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Grupo Televisa's second quarter 2026 conference call.

各位早安，歡迎參加Grupo Televisa 2026年第二季電話會議。

Before we begin, I would like to draw your attention to the press release, which explains the use of forward-looking statements and applies to everything we will discuss today on the call and in the earnings release.

在開始之前，我想請各位留意新聞稿，其中說明了前瞻性陳述的使用方式，並適用於我們今天在電話會議及財報新聞稿中將討論的所有內容。

I will now turn the call over to Mr. Alfonso de Angoitia, Co-Chief Executive Officer of Grupo Televisa. Please go ahead, sir.

現在我將把電話會議交給Grupo Televisa共同執行長Alfonso de Angoitia先生。先生，請開始。

Thank you, Elsa. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us. With me today are Francisco Valim, CEO of our telecom operations; and Carlos Phillips, CFO of Grupo Televisa.

謝謝你，Elsa。各位早安，感謝各位加入我們。今天與我一同出席的有：我們電信業務的執行長Francisco Valim，以及Grupo Televisa的財務長Carlos Phillips。

Before discussing our second quarter operating and financial performance, let me remind you that we are celebrating the third anniversary since Francisco Valim and his team joined Grupo Televisa to lead the turnaround of our telecom operations. Therefore, we would like to take the opportunity to share with you what we believe have been our major accomplishments throughout this period.

在討論我們第二季的營運與財務表現之前，先提醒各位，我們正在慶祝Francisco Valim及其團隊加入Grupo Televisa、帶領我們電信業務轉型的第三週年。因此，我們想藉此機會與各位分享我們認為在這段期間所取得的主要成就。

First, our strategy to focus on attracting and retaining value customers in Cable has allowed us not only to stabilize our Internet subscriber base, but to grow it sequentially for five consecutive quarters. The quality of our subscriber base has improved considerably throughout this period, allowing us to maintain churn below 2% also for five consecutive quarters. Moreover, during the second quarter of 2026, our churn rate was the lowest of the last 10 quarters, leading us to believe our value strategy is proving successful.

第一，我們在有線業務（Cable）聚焦於吸引並留住高價值客戶的策略，不僅讓我們的網際網路用戶基礎趨於穩定，且已連續五個季度呈現季增成長。在此期間，我們的用戶結構品質顯著提升，使我們也能連續五個季度將流失率維持在2%以下。此外，在2026年第二季，我們的流失率為過去10個季度最低，讓我們相信高價值策略正證明其成效。

Second, following several quarters with Cable revenue pressure, we experienced a turning point over the last couple of quarters. During the first half of 2026, our residential and enterprise revenue of MXN23.7 billion increased by 2.6% year-on-year, and we are confident this pace of growth is sustainable.

第二，在有線營收承壓數個季度之後，我們在最近幾個季度迎來轉折點。2026年上半年，我們住宅與企業營收達2,370億墨西哥披索（MXN），年增2.6%，我們有信心這樣的成長速度具可持續性。

Third, we have been executing on the implementation of OpEx efficiencies and the integration between Izzi and Sky to materially reduce our OpEx structure and extract synergies. Evidence of this is that our annual OpEx of MXN34.5 billion is 18.4% lower than the MXN42.2 billion we spent three years ago despite the accumulated inflation of 14.7%.

第三，我們持續推動營運費用（OpEx）效率措施，以及Izzi與Sky之間的整合，以實質降低OpEx結構並釋放綜效。其證據在於：我們年度OpEx為345億墨西哥披索（MXN），較三年前的422億墨西哥披索（MXN）降低18.4%，即使同期累計通膨達14.7%。

Most of these savings come from headcount efficiencies as we moved to about 25,000 employees from around 34,000 in mid-2023. This allowed us to cut labor costs by almost 8% despite cumulative minimum wage increases of more than 50% over the last three years. Moreover, our programming costs and expenses have also been cut by around 20% throughout this period. This contributed to expanding our annual consolidated operating segment income margin by around 260 basis points to 40.7% from 38.1% three years ago.

這些節省多數來自人力效率提升，我們的員工數已從2023年年中約34,000人降至約25,000人。這使我們得以在過去三年累計最低工資調升超過50%的情況下，仍將人事成本降低近8%。此外，我們的節目內容成本與費用在此期間也削減約20%。這有助於將我們年度合併營運分部利益率擴大約260個基點，從三年前的38.1%提升至40.7%。

Fourth, by the end of 2024, we decided to upgrade 100% of our 20 million homes network to fiber-to-the-home. Back then, we only had around 22.5% of our homes passed by an FTTH network. Still, 18 months after the launch of the upgrade, we already passed 12 million homes with FTTH and are on track to have a full FTTH network in the second quarter of 2027.

第四，於2024年底，我們決定將覆蓋2,000萬戶家庭的網路100%升級為光纖到府（FTTH）。當時，我們僅約22.5%的覆蓋戶數由FTTH網路通過。然而，在升級啟動後18個月，我們已完成1,200萬戶的FTTH覆蓋，並正按計畫於2027年第二季建成全FTTH網路。

Fifth, our CapEx deployment approach has been very disciplined to focus on free cash flow generation, which has been our absolute top priority. On average, our annual CapEx of MXN11.3 billion has been 36.5% lower than the average of the two years before Valim joined the company, while our aggregate CapEx to sales ratio of 18.5% compares well to the 25.8% we used to have before. Excluding the upgrade of our network, these numbers look even better. On average, our yearly organic CapEx of MXN9.1 billion would have been almost 50% lower than before, while our aggregate CapEx to sales ratio would have been only 14.9%.

第五，我們的資本支出（CapEx）投入方式一直非常自律，聚焦於自由現金流的創造，這是我們絕對的首要任務。平均而言，我們年度CapEx為113億墨西哥披索（MXN），較Valim加入公司前兩年的平均水準低36.5%；同時，我們合計CapEx占銷售比率為18.5%，相較於過去的25.8%表現良好。若排除網路升級，這些數字會更佳。平均而言，我們每年的有機CapEx為91億墨西哥披索（MXN），將較過去低近50%；而合計CapEx占銷售比率將僅為14.9%。

Sixth, over the last three years, Grupo Televisa's corporate expenses have declined by around 65% to an annual figure of around MXN400 million compared with about MXN1.2 billion before. We have been able to achieve this by further integration of several functions with our telecom operations, including back office, IT systems and procurement, among others.

第六，過去三年，Grupo Televisa的公司費用已下降約65%，年度金額約為4億墨西哥披索（MXN），相較於先前約12億墨西哥披索（MXN）。我們之所以能達成此目標，是因為進一步將多項職能與電信業務整合，包括後勤支援、IT系統與採購等。

And seventh, over the last three years, free cash flow generation has been quite strong. As I mentioned, this is our top priority. Throughout this period, Grupo Televisa has generated a cumulative amount of MXN16.4 billion in free cash flow, equivalent to $300 million per year. Excluding the upgrade of our network, the accumulated free cash flow would have been MXN20.6 billion or around $375 million annually. This has been contributed for Grupo Televisa's leverage ratio to decline to 1.6 times EBITDA from 2.4 times at the end of the second quarter of 2023. I strongly believe we're on the right track here, and we have a great team headed by Valim. The results speak for themselves.

第七，過去三年，自由現金流的創造相當強勁。如我所提，這是我們的首要任務。在此期間，Grupo Televisa累計產生164億墨西哥披索（MXN）的自由現金流，相當於每年3億美元。若排除網路升級，累計自由現金流將為206億墨西哥披索（MXN），或每年約3.75億美元。這也促使Grupo Televisa的槓桿比率從2023年第二季末的EBITDA 2.4倍下降至1.6倍。我堅信我們正走在正確的軌道上，並且有一支由Valim領軍的優秀團隊。成果不言自明。

Having said that, let me turn the call over to Valim, as he will discuss the operating and financial performance of our consolidated assets.

話說至此，讓我把電話會議交給Valim，他將說明我們合併資產的營運與財務表現。

Thank you, Alfonso. Good morning, everyone. Let me start by saying I'm very proud to be here and for the achievements of the team over the last three years. It has been a wonderful journey, full of accomplishments.

謝謝你，Alfonso。各位早安。首先我要說，我非常自豪能在此，並為團隊過去三年的成就感到驕傲。這是一段精彩的旅程，充滿了成果。

Now let me walk you through the operating and financial performance of our Cable operations. We ended June with a network of 20 million homes after passing around 12,000 new homes during the quarter. In addition, we upgraded over 1.5 million homes to fiber-to-the-home technology, ending the second quarter with around 60% of our total footprint passed with FTTH. Moreover, as Alfonso mentioned, we are on track to upgrade another 8 million homes to FTTH technology over the next 12 months to have a full fiber network by the end of the second quarter of 2027.

現在我將帶各位回顧我們有線業務（Cable）的營運與財務表現。截至6月底，我們的網路覆蓋達2,000萬戶，該季度新增覆蓋約12,000戶。此外，我們將超過150萬戶升級至光纖到府（FTTH）技術，使第二季末約60%的總覆蓋範圍已由FTTH通過。另外，如Alfonso所提，我們正按計畫在未來12個月再升級800萬戶至FTTH技術，於2027年第二季末前建成全光纖網路。

In the second quarter, our monthly churn rate remained below our historical average of 2% for the fifth consecutive quarter as we keep focus on value customers while working on customer retention and satisfaction. Our broadband gross adds is low due to our price increase implemented in April, more aggressive promotions from our competitors, and an earlier-than-expected rainy season. This led us to have softer broadband net adds of 9,400 during the second quarter.

第二季，我們的月流失率連續第五個季度維持在歷史平均2%以下，因為我們持續聚焦高價值客戶，同時致力於客戶留存與滿意度提升。由於我們在4月實施的漲價、競爭對手更積極的促銷，以及雨季較預期更早到來，我們的寬頻總新增用戶數偏低。因此，第二季寬頻淨新增用戶為9,400戶，表現較為溫和。

However, looking at the last four quarters, we're able to deliver over 80,000 broadband net adds, which is in line with our annual internal goals. In video, we lost about 31,000 subscribers in the second quarter, which compares well to an average of around 38,000 disconnects over the last four quarters.

然而，從最近四個季度來看，我們仍能交出超過80,000戶的寬頻淨新增用戶，符合我們年度內部目標。在影音業務方面，第二季我們流失約31,000名用戶，與最近四個季度平均約38,000戶的退訂數相比，表現相對良好。

Moving on, our mobile net adds of 72,000 subscribers during the second quarter remained solid, but slowed some compared to an average of about 92,000 net adds over the last four quarters. The new law requiring all mobile phone users to register their phone lines with photo ID and their official identification may be causing a generalized temporary slowdown in the Mexican mobile market. However, we are well positioned to face this new environment as all our new users are postpaid, making their registration automatic.

接下來，我們在第二季的行動業務淨增用戶為72,000戶，表現仍然穩健，但相較於過去四個季度平均約92,000戶的淨增速度有所放緩。新法規要求所有行動電話用戶以附照片的身分證明及其官方身分文件登記門號，可能正導致墨西哥行動市場出現普遍且暫時性的放緩。然而，我們已做好充分準備以因應此新環境，因為我們所有新用戶皆為後付費用戶，其註冊流程可自動完成。

During the quarter, net revenue from residential operations of MXN10.7 billion increased by 1.8% year-on-year. This marks the best quarter of the last 2.5 years at our residential operations from a revenue growth performance standpoint and compares well to a full year revenue decline of 1.8% and 2.5% in 2025 and 2024, respectively.

本季，住宅業務淨營收為107億墨西哥披索（MXN10.7 billion），年增1.8%。就營收成長表現而言，這是我們住宅業務過去2.5年來最佳的一季，且相較之下，2025年與2024年全年營收分別下滑1.8%與2.5%。

On a sequential basis, rent revenue from our residential operations grew again by 1.1%, solidifying our gradual recovery. Net revenue from our enterprise operations of MXN1 billion increased by 0.8% year-on-year, slowing considerably relative to the strong growth experienced in the first quarter, as most of the revenue increase that we expected for this year at our enterprise operations already took place.

以季比來看，我們住宅業務的租金收入再度成長1.1%，進一步鞏固我們逐步復甦的趨勢。企業業務淨營收為10億墨西哥披索（MXN1 billion），年增0.8%；相較第一季的強勁成長明顯放緩，因為我們原先預期今年企業業務的大部分營收增量已經在先前實現。

Moving on to Sky's operating and financial performance. During the second quarter, we lost 279,000 revenue-generating units, mostly coming from prepaid subscribers that have not been recharging their services. While disconnections at Sky continue to be robust, we saw an improvement compared to the average disconnections of 326,000 revenue-generating units over the last four quarters, potentially driven by the World Cup transmission.

接下來談Sky的營運與財務表現。第二季我們流失了279,000個創收單位（revenue-generating units），主要來自未再儲值服務的預付費用戶。雖然Sky的斷線情況仍然偏高，但相較於過去四個季度平均每季流失326,000個創收單位已有所改善，可能受惠於世界盃轉播帶動。

Sky's second quarter revenue of MXN2.5 billion declined by 20.3% year-on-year, mainly driven by a lower subscriber base. However, the pace of decline slowed some relative to a year-on-year contraction of 24.6% in the first quarter.

Sky第二季營收為25億墨西哥披索（MXN2.5 billion），年減20.3%，主要受用戶基數下降所致。不過，相較第一季年減24.6%，下滑幅度已有所收斂。

To sum up, segment revenue of MXN14.3 billion fell by 3% year-on-year, while operating segment income of MXN6 billion increased by 5%, showing sustained momentum on the growth rebound experienced over the last two quarters, driven by an OpEx decline of 8%. Our operating segment income margin of 41.8% expanded by 310 basis points year-on-year, making it the best quarter of the last three years in terms of profitability, driven by efficiency measures that we have been implementing and the synergies that have been ongoing integration between Sky and Izzi. On a sequential basis, profitability expanded by 40 basis points.

總結而言，分部營收為143億墨西哥披索（MXN14.3 billion），年減3%；分部營業利益為60億墨西哥披索（MXN6 billion），年增5%，延續過去兩季成長反彈的動能，主要受惠於營運費用（OpEx）下降8%。我們的分部營業利益率為41.8%，年增310個基點，為近三年獲利表現最佳的一季，主要來自我們持續推動的效率措施，以及Sky與Izzi整合過程中持續釋放的綜效。以季比來看，獲利能力提升40個基點。

Regarding CapEx deployment, our second quarter total investments of MXN3.6 billion accounted for 25.3% of sales. The main reason behind having higher total investments relative to the second quarter of last year was the FTTH upgrade of 1.5 million homes previously discussed. Finally, operating cash flow for Cable and Sky, which is equivalent to EBITDA minus CapEx, was MXN2.4 billion in the second quarter, accounting for 16.6% of sales.

就資本支出（CapEx）投入而言，第二季總投資為36億墨西哥披索（MXN3.6 billion），占銷售額的25.3%。相較去年第二季總投資較高的主要原因，是先前提到對150萬戶住宅進行FTTH升級。最後，有線與Sky的營運現金流（相當於EBITDA減CapEx）第二季為24億墨西哥披索（MXN2.4 billion），占銷售額的16.6%。

Thank you, Valim. Great job. Now let me walk you through TelevisaUnivision's second quarter results. The company's revenue of $1.3 billion increased by 10% year-on-year, including the impact from the appreciation of the Mexican peso, driven by our exceptional results in Mexico.

謝謝你，Valim。做得很好。接下來我將帶各位回顧TelevisaUnivision第二季的業績。公司營收為13億美元，年增10%，其中包含墨西哥披索升值的影響；成長主要由我們在墨西哥的卓越表現所帶動。

During the quarter, Mexico's revenue surged by 53% year-on-year to $605 million as the FIFA World Cup was an extraordinary success, serving as a catalyst for multi-platform growth across our advertising, subscription and licensing businesses, while in the US, revenue of $722 million fell by 11%, reflecting anticipated domestic advertising headwinds, including the fact that we did not air the World Cup.

本季，墨西哥營收年增53%至6.05億美元；FIFA世界盃取得非凡成功，成為推動我們廣告、訂閱與授權業務跨平台成長的催化劑。另一方面，在美國，營收為7.22億美元，年減11%，反映預期中的國內廣告逆風，其中也包括我們未轉播世界盃的影響。

While revenue growth was strong during the quarter, total operating expenses increased by 16% or 11%, excluding the appreciation of the Mexican peso, driven by the anticipated sports-related costs associated with the World Cup in Mexico and Latin America. As a result, adjusted EBITDA of $388 million declined by 3%.

雖然本季營收成長強勁，但總營運費用年增16%；若排除墨西哥披索升值影響，則年增11%，主要來自與世界盃相關、在墨西哥與拉丁美洲預期發生的體育內容成本。因此，調整後EBITDA為3.88億美元，年減3%。

Moving on to the details of our revenue performance. During the quarter, consolidated advertising revenue decreased by 9% year-on-year. In the US, advertising revenue was 29% lower, reflecting cyclical softness in our linear business and lower ViX advertising revenue, both of which were impacted by us not having the World Cup.

接下來說明營收表現的細項。本季合併廣告營收年減9%。在美國，廣告營收下降29%，反映我們線性業務的景氣循環性疲弱，以及ViX廣告營收較低；兩者皆受到我們未擁有世界盃轉播的影響。

Although advertiser spending shifted during the quarter, we continued to grow audience ratings leading into the tournament and we expanded CPMs year-on-year while successfully navigating a dynamic counterprogramming environment. Our core business demonstrated resilient underlying trends, and we saw growth in recurring sports-related revenue driven by emerging categories such as sports betting.

儘管本季廣告主支出出現轉移，我們在賽事開打前仍持續提升收視率，並在年比年擴大CPM，同時成功因應多變的反制節目（counterprogramming）環境。我們的核心業務展現出具韌性的基本趨勢，且在運動博彩等新興類別帶動下，與體育相關的經常性收入亦呈現成長。

In Mexico, advertising revenue increased by 23% year-on-year, driven by the strength of both our linear and DTC platforms, which offered 39 consecutive days of premium World Cup coverage. During the quarter, we delivered an unprecedented total reach of approximately 415 million across 79 matches, nearly doubling our closest competitor by underscoring the dominance of our multi-platform ecosystem. We saw strong demand for the World Cup inventory, and our scale, combined with strategic execution across our linear and digital platforms, unlocked new revenue streams that monetized viewership.

在墨西哥，廣告營收年增23%，主要受惠於我們線性與DTC平台的雙重強勁表現；兩者提供連續39天的高品質世界盃轉播內容。本季我們在79場比賽中創下約4.15億的前所未有總觸及人次，幾乎是最接近競爭對手的兩倍，凸顯我們多平台生態系的主導地位。我們看到世界盃廣告庫存需求強勁；憑藉規模優勢並結合在線性與數位平台的策略性執行，我們開拓了可將收視變現的新收入來源。

During the quarter, consolidated subscription and licensing revenue increased by 40% year-on-year, driven by approximately $90 million in World Cup sublicensing revenue in Latin America, continued growth in ViX's premium tiers and higher linear distribution revenue. In the US, subscription and licensing revenue grew by 8%, reflecting higher average rates, incremental distribution revenue from Hulu Live TV and growth in ViX.

本季合併訂閱與授權營收年增40%，主要受惠於拉丁美洲約9,000萬美元的世界盃轉授權（sublicensing）收入、ViX高級方案（premium tiers）持續成長，以及更高的線性分銷收入。在美國，訂閱與授權營收成長8%，反映平均費率提高、來自Hulu Live TV的新增分銷收入，以及ViX的成長。

In Mexico, subscription and licensing revenue increased by 157%, supported by the previously discussed World Cup sublicensing revenue and continuing growth in ViX's premium tier. ViX delivered exceptional engagement and record subscriber growth as the platform was the exclusive streaming destination for the tournament.

在墨西哥，訂閱與授權營收年增157%，主要由前述世界盃轉授權收入及ViX高級方案持續成長所支撐。由於該平台是本次賽事的獨家串流目的地，ViX帶來卓越的互動表現與創紀錄的訂戶成長。

Our World Cup strategy significantly outperformed expectations as we posted record ViX subscription revenue and the highest quarterly subscriber additions in the platform's history. ViX continues to scale, and we remain focused on driving subscription revenue growth and DTC profitability, which are our primary operating priorities.

我們的世界盃策略顯著超出預期，ViX訂閱營收創新高，並寫下平台史上最高的單季訂戶新增數。ViX持續擴張規模，我們仍聚焦於推動訂閱營收成長與DTC獲利能力，這是我們最主要的營運優先事項。

Moving on to our balance sheet. TelevisaUnivision ended the quarter with $766 million in cash, driven by seasonality and timing of advertising upfront collections in Mexico amplified by the World Cup. In addition, we have around $770 million of available capacity under our credit facilities.

接下來談資產負債表。TelevisaUnivision於本季末持有現金7.66億美元，主要受季節性因素與墨西哥廣告預收款（upfront）收款時點影響，且世界盃進一步放大此效應。此外，我們在授信額度下尚有約7.70億美元的可用額度。

CapEx for the quarter was $36 million compared to $23 million last year, but we continue to expect full year 2026 CapEx to be consistent with full year 2025 levels. Looking at our leverage, we ended the quarter with a net debt-to-EBITDA of 5.5 times, a modest improvement from 5.7 times in the prior quarter.

本季資本支出（CapEx）為3,600萬美元，去年同期為2,300萬美元；但我們仍預期2026年全年CapEx將與2025年全年水準一致。就槓桿而言，本季末淨負債對EBITDA倍數為5.5倍，較前一季的5.7倍小幅改善。

Going forward, we remain prudent on the US advertising market. We expect third quarter US advertising trends to be broadly consistent with the second quarter, reflecting macroeconomic conditions and a competitive sports programming slate. We anticipate continued World Cup momentum in Mexico and Latin America, together with fourth quarter US political advertising, to partially offset near-term US advertising pressures through the second half of 2026.

展望未來，我們對美國廣告市場仍保持審慎。我們預期第三季美國廣告趨勢將大致與第二季一致，反映總體經濟狀況以及競爭激烈的體育節目排程。我們預期墨西哥與拉丁美洲的世界盃動能將延續，加上第四季美國政治廣告，將在2026年下半年部分抵消短期美國廣告壓力。

To wrap up, Bernardo and I are confident that Grupo Televisa's strong balance sheet and the solid financial performance at our telecom operations position us well to consolidate our undisputable position as the second largest telco operator in Mexico after the incumbent and to create greater value for our shareholders.

最後，Bernardo 和我有信心，Grupo Televisa 強健的資產負債表以及我們電信營運的穩健財務表現，使我們具備良好條件，在墨西哥於既有業者之後鞏固我們作為第二大電信營運商的無可爭議地位，並為股東創造更大價值。

Now we are ready to take your questions. Elsa, could you please provide instructions for the Q&A?

現在我們準備回答各位的提問。Elsa，請您提供問答環節的說明，好嗎？

Alejandro Gallostra, BBVA.

Alejandro Gallostra，BBVA。

Excellent. Alfonso, I'd like to ask you a few questions about your strategy about your intention to potentially consolidate the telecom market. The first question, Alfonso, is -- I'd like to know what do you think is more likely to happen? Do you think that Televisa is more likely to try to consolidate the market on its own, going with it alone? Or it's more likely to bring a strategic partner for this journey?

很好。Alfonso，我想就你們的策略、以及你們可能整合電信市場的意圖問幾個問題。第一個問題，Alfonso——我想了解你認為更可能發生的是什麼？你認為 Televisa 更可能單獨推動市場整合、自己走這條路嗎？還是更可能在這段旅程中引入策略夥伴？

The second question that I would like to ask is, what is your intention? Are you looking to acquire 100% of whatever assets you are interested in? Or you would be happy with a 51% controlling stake? And finally, Alfonso, I also like to know, what would be the leverage that you would be comfortable with at a consolidated level after consolidating any potential assets?

第二個問題是，你們的意圖是什麼？你們是否希望收購你們感興趣資產的100%？或者持有51%的控股權你們也會滿意？最後，Alfonso，我也想了解，在整合任何潛在資產之後，以合併口徑來看，你們可接受的槓桿水準會是多少？

Well, Alejandro, great questions. I could spend an hour answering them, but I will try to make that shorter. I guess what I would say is we have been trying to consolidate the cable industry for a very long time. I think it's the right thing that we have to do as an industry.

嗯，Alejandro，問題問得很好。我可以花一個小時回答，但我會盡量簡短。我想我會說的是，我們嘗試整合有線產業已經很長一段時間了。我認為，從產業角度來看，這是我們必須做的正確事情。

I think if you look at other cases throughout the world, a four-player market is a complicated market. So we have been trying. Unfortunately, we have been unable to accomplish that. As the telecommunications sector in general, I would say that we always analyze strategic opportunities. This is all the time as they come. These are opportunities that we see would strengthen our competitive position and of course, create shareholder value within our sectors.

我認為，如果你看全球其他案例，四家業者的市場是一個複雜的市場。所以我們一直在嘗試。不幸的是，我們尚未能達成。就整體電信產業而言，我會說我們一直都在評估策略性機會。這是持續進行的，只要機會出現就會分析。我們看到這些機會能強化我們的競爭地位，當然也能在我們的領域中為股東創造價值。

We have always tried to be disciplined as to our capital allocation and returns over the investment. So it depends on the particular opportunity to determine whether we bring in strategic partners or not. So it depends on the possibilities, the opportunity, the company itself, the part of the sector that we're talking about. So it all depends on that, on the particular opportunity as it comes.

我們在資本配置以及投資報酬方面一向力求紀律。因此，是否引入策略夥伴取決於具體機會。也取決於各種可能性、機會本身、公司本身，以及我們所談的是產業中的哪一個部分。所以一切都取決於當下出現的具體機會。

I would say, as to the level of leverage that we feel comfortable in having, I guess it all depends also on the opportunity and the cash flow generation that opportunity would bring or not and how we would deleverage in a particular acquisition. So it all depends on how we see a particular opportunity.

至於我們覺得舒適的槓桿水準，我想同樣也取決於機會本身、該機會能否帶來現金流，以及在特定收購案中我們將如何去槓桿。所以一切都取決於我們如何看待某個具體機會。

And Alfonso, also, regarding the stake that you're looking to acquire, any comments on that? Are you happy with a 51% stake or always looking to acquire 100% of whatever assets you're interested in?

另外，Alfonso，關於你們想收購的持股比例，能否也評論一下？你們對51%的持股就滿意，還是總是希望收購你們感興趣資產的100%？

Yes. I would say it depends on the particular opportunity as well. So in some instances, we would not have -- I mean, we would like to control and operate the company. But in some instances, it would depend, and we could have less than that as well. So it depends. It all depends.

是的。我會說這也取決於具體機會。所以在某些情況下，我們——我的意思是，我們希望能夠控制並營運該公司。但在某些情況下，會視情況而定，我們也可能持有低於那個比例。所以要看情況。一切都要看情況。

And I would only add, Alejandro, to your point about leverage that as you've seen, since we changed our strategy in Cable, we've generated a lot more cash. And we've been able to delever the company significantly, below 2 times. So our balance sheet is very strong. In case of any M&A opportunities, like Alfonso was saying, it's going to depend on the opportunity, but we -- our balance sheet today is pretty strong to be able to deal with them.

我只想補充一點，Alejandro，關於你提到的槓桿：如你所見，自從我們調整有線業務策略以來，我們產生了更多現金。而且我們已能大幅降低公司的槓桿，降到2倍以下。因此我們的資產負債表非常強健。若有任何併購機會，如 Alfonso 所說，會取決於機會本身，但——我們目前的資產負債表相當強健，足以應對。

Marcelo Santos, JPMorgan.

Marcelo Santos，JPMorgan。

I want to go more on the operational side, probably more to Valim. The first question is, how much more space do you think there is to extract synergies between Cable and Sky? I mean, I think Alfonso mentioned a lot of these gains are coming from headcount reductions. At what point do you reach kind of a steady state? I know costs always have to keep cutting and improving, but probably, I wanted to more structural changes. How far are we there? That's the question number 1.

我想更多從營運面切入，可能主要問 Valim。第一個問題是，你認為 Cable 和 Sky 之間還有多少空間可以釋放協同效益？我的意思是，我想 Alfonso 提到很多收益來自人力縮減。你們在什麼時點會達到某種穩態？我知道成本總是要持續削減與改善，但我更想了解結構性的變化。我們目前進展到什麼程度？這是第一個問題。

The question number 2 would be, could you expand a bit more on your comment regarding increased competition on broadband? Because I think you gave three reasons for the broadband adds, like price increase, more competition and early rainy season. So I was interested in the second one, if you could just say a bit more about that?

第二個問題是，你能否再多談一點你提到寬頻競爭加劇的評論？因為我記得你提到寬頻新增用戶的三個原因，例如漲價、競爭加劇以及雨季提早。我對第二點比較感興趣，你能否多說一些？

So Marcelo, I think that synergies is a broad name to define many things. And in telecom, in this day and age with the amount of new technologies, especially helping in terms of efficiencies on the back end of the operations, I think we still see a lot of room for improvement.

Marcelo，我認為「協同效益」是一個很廣泛的名稱，用來涵蓋很多事情。而在電信產業，在當今這個新技術大量湧現的時代，特別是在提升後端營運效率方面，我認為我們仍看到很大的改善空間。

Obviously, the synergies are coming to an end in terms of the integration between Sky and Izzi, but it doesn't mean that we are not pursuing further improvements in terms of efficiency and do that on a daily basis. So I would not assume that we cannot find even more opportunities in terms of how we can streamline the operations.

顯然，就 Sky 與 Izzi 的整合而言，協同效益正逐步接近尾聲，但這不代表我們不再持續追求效率提升，而且我們每天都在做。因此我不會假設我們無法在如何精簡營運方面找到更多機會。

And like I said, technology has a lot to do with that. And we have been heavily invested in making sure that we have the best, most efficient operation, but at the same time, that provides the customers with satisfaction. So NPS is a key element of our business, but also making sure that we do that at the least possible cost is always part of the discussion.

如我所說，技術在其中扮演很大角色。我們一直大力投資，確保我們擁有最佳、最有效率的營運，同時也能讓客戶滿意。因此 NPS 是我們業務的關鍵要素，但同時，確保以盡可能低的成本做到這一點，也一直是討論的一部分。

So from our day-to-day operations, like you're referring to, we see opportunities for improvement in many areas of the business. Still, telecom, especially in a large organization, they take time to mature. And we have several coming up in the future, so we should see still improvement in terms of margins moving forward.

因此，就你所指的日常營運而言，我們在業務的許多領域都看到改善機會。不過，電信業，特別是在大型組織中，成熟需要時間。而我們未來還有幾項措施將陸續推出，因此往後我們仍應能看到利潤率持續改善。

In terms of the competition, I think that is an interesting question because there are many levels of competition. So let's discuss our subscriber base in terms of different groups. So Sky is a technology that is, by definition, struggling when fiber is deployed all over the country. So most of the consumers are either migrating to us or some of the other players and also using more OTTs than they used to. So -- and the Sky customers typically had a higher ARPU. So obviously, the migration in Sky is something -- migrating out of Sky is something that will happen moving forward. So we see that as a competition in a sense.

就競爭而言，我認為這是一個有趣的問題，因為競爭有很多層次。所以讓我們以不同群體來討論我們的訂戶基礎。因此，Sky 這項技術按其定義，在全國各地部署光纖後就會面臨困境。因此，多數消費者不是轉移到我們這裡，就是轉向其他業者，同時也比以前更多使用 OTT 服務。而 Sky 的客戶通常有較高的 ARPU。所以很明顯，Sky 的遷移——從 Sky 轉出的遷移——未來會持續發生。因此我們在某種意義上把這視為一種競爭。

When you divide our subscriber base, the existing subscriber base, the customers that are with us for longer than 12 months, our churn there is significantly lower than the average. Where we see higher churn is at the front end. Why? Because there's a lot of competition for the bottom feeders, meaning those people that are going after MXN50 discussion, I am MXN50 cheaper than you, and et cetera, et cetera. So churn is higher at the entry level, but our churn is significantly lower at the end of the pyramid. So our subscriber base at the end of the -- so subscribers that have 12 months or more, we keep on improving subscribers. We keep on improving ARPU. And so those are our focus.

當你把我們的訂戶基礎、也就是既有訂戶基礎做切分時，與我們合作超過 12 個月的客戶，其流失率顯著低於平均。我們看到較高流失的是在前端。為什麼？因為在所謂的「底部客群」上競爭非常激烈，也就是那些圍繞 MXN50 來討論的人：我比你便宜 MXN50，等等等等。所以入門層的流失較高，但在金字塔頂端，我們的流失顯著更低。因此在金字塔頂端的訂戶——也就是訂閱 12 個月或以上的訂戶——我們持續提升這些訂戶。我們持續提升 ARPU。因此這些就是我們的重點。

So -- and why should we increase competition at this lower level doesn't make a lot of sense because it requires sales, CapEx installation. And definitely higher churn and lower payback for these customers. So we see some of the players in the market going after those low-end customers like crazy, you can see it reflects on their CapEx, which is significantly higher than ours for those acquisitions. So we are being very selective as to which channels and which clients we are going after because we can always go do this fight for this lower ARPU and have higher net adds.

所以——而且為什麼我們要在這個較低層級加大競爭，其實不太合理，因為這需要銷售、資本支出（CapEx）與安裝。而且這些客戶的流失肯定更高、回收期更短。所以我們看到市場上一些業者瘋狂搶攻這些低端客戶，你可以看到這反映在他們的 CapEx 上，為了這些獲客，他們的 CapEx 明顯高於我們。因此我們在選擇要透過哪些通路、鎖定哪些客戶方面非常謹慎，因為我們隨時都可以去打這場低 ARPU 的仗，並取得更高的淨新增。

But the question is, how long they will stay on the subscriber base and how much they contribute to the subscriber base? And we don't want to go after those clients. We want to go after those clients that need more service, that are looking to a more resilient provider that not only provides broadband, but provides other services that are very appealing to them, not only in terms of the services and the quality of the services, but also in terms of the overall value proposition. So that's our approach.

但問題是，他們會在訂戶基礎中待多久，以及他們對訂戶基礎的貢獻有多少？而我們不想去追逐那些客戶。我們想要的是那些需要更多服務、尋找更具韌性的供應商的客戶；這些供應商不僅提供寬頻，還提供其他對他們非常有吸引力的服務，不只是服務內容與品質，也包括整體價值主張。所以這就是我們的方法。

I understand some other players in this market have a different approach. We appreciate them, and we think that they are doing a good job, but we have a different strategy. And that reflects itself in growing subscriber base not at the rates that someone might think it's needed. We think it's more wise, what we are doing.

我理解這個市場的其他業者有不同的做法。我們尊重他們，也認為他們做得很好，但我們有不同的策略。而這也反映在我們的訂戶基礎成長速度上，沒有達到某些人可能認為「需要」的那種成長率。我們認為我們正在做的更明智。

And in terms of cash flow generation, just like Carlos mentioned, we are generating a ton of cash, and that's what we think drives the business in the long run. Telecom is not a sprint. This is a very long marathon.

至於現金流的創造，正如 Carlos 提到的，我們正在產生大量現金，而我們認為這才是長期驅動業務的關鍵。電信不是短跑。這是一場非常長的馬拉松。

Lucca Brendim, Bank of America.

Lucca Brendim，美國銀行。

I have two from my side. The first one, can you give us some color on the increase that we've been seeing in the last couple of quarters in lease payments? If there's a reason -- a specific reason behind that and if this trend will continue or not?

我這邊有兩個問題。第一個，能否請你們補充說明一下，過去幾個季度我們看到租賃付款增加的情況？這背後是否有原因——特定原因——以及這個趨勢是否會持續？

And then the second one, on the regions where you are upgrading to fiber, are you already seeing benefits from that in terms of your competitive position in the region, if you're able to raise ARPU more there or if you're seeing lower churn? Any color on that would be great.

第二個，在你們正在升級到光纖的區域，你們是否已經看到在該區域競爭地位上的好處，例如能否在那裡提高 ARPU，或是否看到更低的流失率？任何補充說明都會很有幫助。

Thank you, Lucca, for your question. Carlos, can you take the first one, please?

謝謝你，Lucca，謝謝你的問題。Carlos，你可以先回答第一個嗎？

Yes. Lucca, the main driver of the increase in leases, as you've been observing, has to do with one of the efficiencies that the team at Izzi has been executing, which is to -- we used to own most of the auto fleet in the company. And now we've been switching to leasing autos, which has generated a lot of savings in other lines. So that's really the main driver in terms of the lease increase.

可以。Lucca，正如你所觀察到的，租賃增加的主要驅動因素，與 Izzi 團隊正在執行的一項效率措施有關，也就是——我們過去公司大多數車隊是自有的。而現在我們改為以租賃方式使用車輛，這在其他費用項目上帶來了大量節省。所以就租賃增加而言，這確實是主要原因。

And regarding the deployment of the network, the idea here is very simple. All of our new net adds are on fiber. And whenever a client has an issue or needs some service, we upgrade them from our existing network to the fiber network. So that's how we are approaching this. And what we are seeing is we are able to sell better products, higher prices and more solutions when we migrate to fiber. We do not do a side-by-side comparison because it's not -- it's the same subscriber base. As the client decides to see more speeds, better services, we migrate them to fiber, and that's easy.

至於網路部署，這裡的想法很簡單。我們所有新的淨新增都在光纖上。而每當客戶有問題或需要某些服務時，我們就把他們從既有網路升級到光纖網路。所以我們就是這樣推進的。我們看到的是，當我們遷移到光纖時，我們能夠銷售更好的產品、更高的價格以及更多的解決方案。我們不做並排比較，因為那不是——那是同一個訂戶基礎。當客戶希望更高速度、更好的服務時，我們就把他們遷移到光纖，這很容易。

But this is an ongoing process. We do not have two parallel services independent. It's the same service that most of the clients actually do not know if it's fiber or not, okay? We have surveyed our subscriber base many times, and they do not know which technology they are using in their homes.

但這是一個持續進行的流程。我們沒有兩套彼此獨立的平行服務。這是同一項服務，而且多數客戶其實不知道是不是光纖，好嗎？我們多次調查我們的訂戶基礎，他們不知道自己家裡使用的是哪種技術。

So for us, it's basically a technological migration to allow us to be competitive in the long run. In the short run, the network that we have works okay. In the long run, obviously, fiber is the end game. So we are ready and working towards migrating the subscriber base to fiber. And we'll do that when the clients need or when we feel it's necessary to -- for a more robust or more sizable migration.

所以對我們而言，這基本上是一個技術遷移，讓我們能在長期保持競爭力。短期來看，我們現有的網路運作得還可以。長期來看，很明顯光纖才是最終方案。因此我們已經準備好並正朝著把訂戶基礎遷移到光纖的方向努力。而我們會在客戶需要時，或當我們認為有必要——進行更強健或更大規模的遷移時——來做這件事。

Phani Kanumuri, HSBC.

Phani Kanumuri，匯豐。

The first one is regarding the impact of Starlink. Are you seeing any potential disruptions from Starlink? Or do you see them as partners in the telecom sector?

第一個問題是關於 Starlink 的影響。你們是否看到 Starlink 可能帶來任何潛在的擾動？或者你們是否把他們視為電信產業的合作夥伴？

And the second one is regarding your strategy for TelevisaUnivision. Now that you are considering a much more active M&A strategy in Mexico, depending on the opportunity, do you plan to monetize TelevisaUnivision stake around the M&A to maintain your leverage?

第二個問題是關於你們對 TelevisaUnivision 的策略。既然你們正考慮在墨西哥採取更積極的併購（M&A）策略、視機會而定，你們是否計畫在併購前後將 TelevisaUnivision 的持股變現，以維持你們的槓桿水準？

Starlink -- can you put your mic on mute? Thank you, Phani. So as to your first question, we believe it will be a mistake to underestimate Starlink and what they're doing in terms of launching 800 new satellites with much higher capacity. However, in our market, with the pricing and the ARPU we experience, we believe it's not a threat in the short term in the mass market. Francisco, can you describe what we're doing with that?

Starlink——你可以把麥克風設為靜音嗎？謝謝你，Phani。關於你的第一個問題，我們認為低估 Starlink 以及他們在發射 800 顆新衛星、且容量大幅提升方面所做的事情，將會是個錯誤。不過，在我們的市場，以我們所面臨的定價與 ARPU 來看，我們認為在大眾市場短期內它不是威脅。Francisco，你可以說明一下我們在這方面做了什麼嗎？

Yes. We have basically two approaches with Starlink. We have a B2B approach. We have signed an agreement with them early last year, and we are ahead of the curve. We are using them as a complementary and sometimes a backup to other services to corporate clients. So Starlink is happy, we are happy. We have been moving forward very quickly with that deployment.

是的。我們與 Starlink 基本上有兩種合作方式。我們有一種 B2B 的方式。我們在去年年初就與他們簽署了協議，而且我們走在趨勢前端。我們將其作為對企業客戶其他服務的補充，有時也作為備援。因此 Starlink 很滿意，我們也很滿意。我們在該部署上推進得非常迅速。

We are also starting a new phase with Starlink which is a B2C phase, which is also complementary to what we offer. So when we have fiber, obviously, fiber provides a very -- is an excellent solution. But where we do not have and combining that with the content that we offer is where we are going with Starlink. So together with Starlink in both B2B and B2C, we see a lot of room for improvement. And I think that's a very profitable partnership for both sides.

我們也正與 Starlink 展開一個新階段，也就是 B2C 階段，這同樣是對我們所提供服務的補充。因此當我們有光纖時，顯然光纖提供了一個非常——是一個極佳的解決方案。但在我們沒有光纖的地方，並把它與我們提供的內容結合起來，就是我們與 Starlink 要前進的方向。因此，與 Starlink 在 B2B 與 B2C 兩方面合作，我們看到很大的改善空間。而我認為這對雙方而言都是非常有利可圖的夥伴關係。

And on the TelevisaUnivision stake thing?

那關於 TelevisaUnivision 持股的事情呢？

Well, the strategy, as we have communicated in the past is basically what we see as the future is growing ViX as our streaming service. I think we gained a lot of strength, and we moved in the right direction using the World Cup as leverage. In Mexico, ViX was the only streaming platform that had 104 games. So that was the total amount of games of the World Cup.

嗯，策略方面，正如我們過去所溝通的，基本上我們所看到的未來，是把 ViX 作為我們的串流服務來成長。我認為我們獲得了很大的動能，並且利用世界盃作為槓桿，朝正確方向前進。在墨西哥，ViX 是唯一擁有 104 場比賽的串流平台。也就是世界盃全部的比賽場次。

We, in essence, launched a product that had all those games, and we were very, very successful with it. We sold around 1 million add-ons of that service. So we're gaining ground and speed of growth. So we're very happy with the prospects of ViX. We believe that to be an essential part of our strategic future. So it's all around ViX, and of course, maintaining the strength and our market share on linear television.

我們本質上推出了一個包含所有這些比賽的產品，而且我們非常、非常成功。我們大約賣出了 100 萬個該服務的加購項目。因此我們正在擴大領先並加快成長速度。所以我們對 ViX 的前景非常滿意。我們相信這將是我們策略未來不可或缺的一部分。因此一切都圍繞著 ViX，當然也包括維持我們在線性電視上的優勢與市占率。

Matthew Harrigan, Benchmark.

Matthew Harrigan，Benchmark。

A European telecom peer of yours, Liberty Global, had some really interesting presentation numbers from the study that McKinsey and Google did on AI-related OpEx savings. They really broke down the cost buckets, where they're applicable, and some pretty substantial percentage cost reductions to realize over a period of time. I know you probably have done similar things. I know TelevisaUnivision has -- obviously, Google is an owner there, as I recall. What do you think the long-term AI benefits are just on kind of the blocking and tackling, operational side? And is there any concern over token costs increasing? Because that's certainly an issue with some US companies that are involved with the hyperscalers.

你們在歐洲的一家同業電信公司 Liberty Global，在 McKinsey 與 Google 所做的 AI 相關營運費用（OpEx）節省研究中，展示了一些非常有意思的簡報數據。他們確實把成本項目拆得很細，說明適用之處，並且在一段時間內可實現相當可觀的百分比成本下降。我知道你們可能也做過類似的事情。我記得 TelevisaUnivision——顯然 Google 也是那裡的股東之一。你認為長期來看，AI 在偏向「基本功」、營運面的效益是什麼？以及你是否擔心 token 成本上升？因為對一些與超大規模雲端服務商合作的美國公司來說，這確實是一個問題。

Thank you for your question, Matthew. It's a great question. I'll answer in respect to TelevisaUnivision. And then Francisco is doing a lot of stuff that has to do with AI on the Izzi side, so he can answer that part.

謝謝你的提問，Matthew。這是一個很好的問題。我會先就 TelevisaUnivision 的部分回答。然後 Francisco 在 Izzi 端也做了很多與 AI 相關的事情，他可以回答那一部分。

I would say that as to TelevisaUnivision, we're doing all types of things with AI. We're working on the production side. This is with several companies, specialized companies. We're working on the production side. We're working on the set designing side. We're working with special effects. We're working with the musicalization of our programs and shows.

我會說，就 TelevisaUnivision 而言，我們正在用 AI 做各式各樣的事情。我們在製作端進行相關工作。這是與多家專業公司合作。我們在製作端進行相關工作。我們在場景設計端進行相關工作。我們在特效方面進行相關工作。我們也在節目與影集的配樂／音樂製作方面進行相關工作。

We're working with a great company called ElevenLabs in what has to do with dubbing. Now you can do great dubbing with the voices of the actors and actresses with AI. And this company is providing us an excellent product where we can dub, for example, a telenovela into Portuguese or into Korean, and then very efficiently taking the great products that we have, those telenovelas and launch them in Korea or in Turkey or in all over the world.

我們與一家很棒的公司 ElevenLabs 合作，主要在配音方面。現在你可以用 AI 以演員與女演員的聲音做出很好的配音。這家公司為我們提供了極佳的產品，使我們能夠例如把一部電視劇配成葡萄牙語或韓語，並且非常有效率地把我們的優質內容——那些電視劇——推向韓國、土耳其或全世界各地。

So we're working on all fronts as to what we can do with AI. And we have seen this brings tremendous efficiencies to our -- especially to our production, to our, as I mentioned, set designing, special effects, musicalization, et cetera. So we're very happy with the prospects there in terms of not only on the cost side, but also on the revenue side, as I mentioned, and being able to dub into different languages and take those products to different countries throughout the world.

因此，在 AI 能做的事情上，我們正全方位推進。而我們看到這帶來了巨大的效率提升——尤其是在製作方面，以及我提到的場景設計、特效、配樂等。所以我們對這方面的前景非常滿意，不僅是在成本端，也在營收端；如我所提到的，能夠配成不同語言，並把這些內容帶到世界各地不同國家。

In terms of Izzi, we also have deployed AI in several processes, from sales to collections. And so it's already embedded in all of those processes.

就 Izzi 而言，我們也已在多個流程中部署 AI，從銷售到催收。因此它已經嵌入在所有這些流程之中。

One of the questions people ask is what about the cost of tokens. We took an approach that many companies have taken in, bringing the infrastructure internally. So we don't go outside. So we don't pay, in essence, tokens. We have storage, cloud storage, and GPUs that do that internally.

人們會問的一個問題是：token 的成本怎麼辦？我們採取了許多公司都採用的一種做法，把基礎設施內部化。所以我們不往外部走。因此本質上我們不需要支付 token。我們有儲存、雲端儲存，以及在內部運作的 GPU 來完成這些工作。

And that has two advantages. One, we manage the cost precisely so we don't have to go just guessing what's going to happen. And two, it also prevents any leakage of potential -- of data. So -- and so because of those two, so we do already have infrastructure and already AI in all of our processes from sales to collections. Obviously, this is an ongoing process and an ongoing evolution. Like you said, we -- and I think Marcelo has asked the same question earlier. In terms of evolving costs, we see that as improvement moving forward as well.

而這有兩個優點。第一，我們能精準管理成本，因此不必去猜測未來會發生什麼。第二，它也能防止潛在的——資料外洩。因此——也因此基於這兩點，我們已經具備基礎設施，並且在從銷售到催收的所有流程中都已導入 AI。顯然，這是一個持續的過程與持續的演進。如你所說，我們——而且我想 Marcelo 先前也問過同樣的問題。就成本演變而言，我們也認為未來會持續改善。

This concludes our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Mr. Alfonso de Angoitia for any closing remarks.

我們的問答環節到此結束。我想把電話會議交回給 Alfonso de Angoitia 先生，請他做結語。

Thank you for participating in our call. If you have any questions, please give us a call, and have a great weekend.

感謝各位參與我們的電話會議。如果你有任何問題，請致電給我們，祝各位週末愉快。

The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

本次電話會議已結束。感謝各位出席今天的簡報。您現在可以掛線。