Tronox Holdings PLC (TROX) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning. Welcome to the Tronox Holdings Plc Q3 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) This call is being recorded. If you have any objections, please disconnect at this time.

早安.歡迎參加 Tronox Holdings Plc 2025 年第三季業績電話會議。（操作員指示）本次通話正在錄音。如有任何異議，請立即斷開連接。

I would now like to turn the call over to Jennifer Guenther, Chief Sustainability Officer, Head of Investor Relations and External Affairs. Jennifer, please go ahead.

現在我將把電話交給首席永續發展長、投資者關係和對外事務主管珍妮佛·根瑟。珍妮弗，請繼續。

Thank you. Good morning, and welcome to our third quarter 2025 earnings call today. A friendly reminder that comments made on this call and the information provided in our presentation and on our website include certain statements that are forward-looking and subject to various risks and uncertainties, including, but not limited to, the specific factors summarized in our SEC filings.

謝謝。早上好，歡迎參加我們今天的2025年第三季財報電話會議。友善提醒：本次電話會議中的評論以及我們在簡報和網站上提供的資訊包含某些前瞻性陳述，這些陳述受到各種風險和不確定性的影響，包括但不限於我們在提交給美國證券交易委員會的文件中概述的具體因素。

This information represents our best judgment based on what we know today. However, actual results may vary based on these risks and uncertainties. The company undertakes no obligation to update or revise any forward-looking statements.

這些資訊是我們根據目前所掌握的資訊所做的最佳判斷。然而，實際結果可能會因這些風險和不確定因素而有所不同。本公司不承擔更新或修改任何前瞻性聲明的義務。

During the conference call, we will refer to certain non-US GAAP financial terms that we use in the management of our business and believe are useful to investors in evaluating the company's performance. Reconciliations to their nearest US GAAP terms are provided in our earnings release and in the appendix of the accompanying presentation. Additionally, please note that all financial comparisons made during the call are on a year-over-year basis unless otherwise noted.

在電話會議期間，我們將提及我們在業務管理中使用的某些非美國通用會計準則財務術語，我們認為這些術語有助於投資者評估公司的表現。與最接近的美國通用會計準則條款的調節表已在我們的獲利公告和隨附簡報的附錄中提供。此外，請注意，除非另有說明，否則電話會議期間進行的所有財務比較均以同比為基礎。

On the call today are John Romano, Chief Executive Officer; and John Srivisal, Senior Vice President, and Chief Financial Officer. You can find the slides we will be using on our website. It is now my pleasure to turn the call over to John Romano. John?

今天參加電話會議的有執行長約翰·羅馬諾和高級副總裁兼財務長約翰·斯里維薩爾。您可以在我們的網站上找到我們將要使用的幻燈片。現在我很高興將電話轉交給約翰羅馬諾。約翰？

Thanks, Jennifer, and good morning, everyone. We'll begin this morning on slide 4 with some key messages from the quarter. Our third quarter results were shaped by ongoing challenges associated with the weaker demand than forecasted, downstream destocking above what we expected and heightened competitive dynamics in both TiO2 and zircon markets.

謝謝你，珍妮弗，大家早安。今天上午，我們將從第 4 張投影片開始，介紹本季的一些關鍵資訊。第三季業績受到持續挑戰的影響，這些挑戰包括需求低於預期、下游去庫存超出預期以及二氧化鈦和鋯石市場競爭加劇。

While our competitors' insolvency proceedings are expected to benefit Tronox's future sales volumes, we saw a temporary headwind in the third quarter with more aggressive liquidation of inventory at below market pricing. We have made headway in our securing tariffs against Chinese dumping though late in the quarter, we encountered an unexpected hurdle in India when a state court temporarily stayed anti-dumping duties.

雖然我們預期競爭對手的破產程序將有利於 Tronox 未來的銷售量，但我們在第三季遇到了暫時的不利因素，即以低於市場價格更積極地清算庫存。雖然我們在本季末在對中國傾銷商品徵收關稅方面取得了進展，但在印度，我們遇到了一個意想不到的障礙，一家邦法院暫時中止了反傾銷稅。

The zircon market also experienced headwinds beyond our expectations, particularly in China, where both pricing and volumes continue to face pressure. In addition, we had a sizable shipment of zircon that rolled from Q3 to Q4 at the end of September. We recognize the importance of safeguarding our cash flow and our cost improvement program is ahead of schedule. We are now on track to deliver in excess of $60 million in annualized savings by the end of 2025 and expect to reach our $125 million to $175 million annualized savings goal by the end of 2026.

鋯石市場也遭遇了超出我們預期的不利因素，尤其是在中國，價格和銷售都持續面臨壓力。此外，我們在 9 月底還有一批數量可觀的鋯石，這些鋯石是從第三季過渡到第四季的。我們體認到保障現金流的重要性，我們的成本改善計畫進展順利，並提前完成了目標。我們現在正朝著實現目標穩步前進，到 2025 年底每年可節省超過 6000 萬美元，並預計到 2026 年底將達到每年節省 1.25 億至 1.75 億美元的目標。

Separately, we have targeted operational actions to manage near-term cash flow. These include the temporary idling of our Fuzhou pigment plant and adjustments at our Stallingborough pigment plant, where we lowered operating rates and are accelerating planned maintenance to align inventory with current market conditions. At our Namakwa smelter operation, we temporarily idled one furnace and will soon initiate a temporary shutdown of our West mine.

此外，我們也採取了有針對性的營運措施來管理近期現金流。其中包括暫時停產福州顏料廠，以及調整斯託林伯勒顏料廠，降低營運率並加快計劃維護，以使庫存與當前市場狀況保持一致。在我們的納馬誇冶煉廠，我們暫時停產了一座熔爐，並將很快暫時關閉我們的西礦。

These actions are intended to reduce inventory and enhance cash flow, supported by our new East OFS mine, which will begin commissioning November 17, supplying higher-grade heavy mineral concentrate into our network. We will continue to assess further measures across mining and pigment sites to ensure production remains closely aligned with prevailing market conditions.

這些措施旨在減少庫存並增強現金流，同時我們新的東部 OFS 礦也將投入運營，該礦將於 11 月 17 日開始投產，為我們的礦網供應更高品位的重礦物精礦。我們將繼續評估各礦場和顏料廠的進一步措施，以確保生產與當前市場狀況保持緊密聯繫。

Combined, these initiatives are anticipated to generate an estimated cash benefit of approximately $25 million to $30 million in the fourth quarter, positioning us for free cash flow in the fourth quarter and 2026. And on the commercial front, we're driving targeted initiatives to monetize inventory throughout our value chain.

預計這些措施將在第四季產生約 2,500 萬至 3,000 萬美元的現金收益，使我們在第四季和 2026 年獲得自由現金流。在商業方面，我們正在推行有針對性的舉措，以實現整個價值鏈中庫存的貨幣化。

Additionally, we strengthened our balance sheet by raising $400 million in senior secured notes, boosting our available liquidity. We are continuing to actively evaluate all available levers to generate cash, reinforce our operational foundation and continue supporting our customers strategic -- as a strategic global supplier.

此外，我們透過發行 4 億美元的優先擔保票據，增強了資產負債表，提高了可用流動性。我們將繼續積極評估所有可用的融資手段，以增加現金流，鞏固營運基礎，並繼續作為全球策略供應商為客戶提供策略支援。

Despite the unforeseen obstacles in the third quarter, there are reasons for optimism. Anti-dumping measures continue to gradually improve our penetration and growth in protected markets. We're pleased that the Brazil finally finalized their duties two weeks ago, increasing them significantly for major importers compared to provisional duties.

儘管第三季遇到了一些意想不到的困難，但仍有理由保持樂觀。反傾銷措施持續逐步提高我們在受保護市場的滲透率和成長速度。我們很高興巴西兩週前終於最終確定了關稅，與臨時關稅相比，主要進口國的關稅大幅提高。

Likewise, Saudi Arabia has now implemented definitive anti-dumping duties at rates comparable to the European Union, and we expect India's duties to be reinstated in the near future. Additionally, increased focus by the West on diversifying away from China and rare earths presents a unique opportunity for Tronox. Our mining operations in Australia and South Africa contain substantial amounts of monazite, a rare earth mineral containing heavy and light rare earths, which can be processed for downstream use in permanent magnets.

同樣，沙烏地阿拉伯現在已實施了與歐盟相當的最終反傾銷稅，我們預計印度的反傾銷稅將在不久的將來恢復徵收。此外，西方國家日益重視擺脫對中國和稀土的依賴，實現多元化發展，這為特諾克斯公司帶來了獨特的機會。我們在澳洲和南非的採礦作業中含有大量的獨居石，這是一種含有重稀土和輕稀土的稀土礦物，可以進行加工，用於下游製造永久磁鐵。

We are continuing to action on what we can control and influence, reinforcing the business through our cost reduction and cash improvement actions and creating long-term shareholder value. I'll speak to these actions in more detail a little bit later in the call. But for now, I'll turn the call over to John for a review of our financials in the quarter in more detail. John?

我們將繼續採取行動，控制和影響我們能夠控制和影響的事項，透過降低成本和改善現金流的措施來鞏固業務，並創造長期股東價值。我稍後會在通話中更詳細地談談這些行動。但現在，我會把電話交給約翰，讓他更詳細地回顧我們本季的財務狀況。約翰？

Thank you, John. Turning to slide 5. We generated revenue of $699 million, a decrease of 13% versus the prior year third quarter, driven by lower sales volumes and unfavorable pricing for both TiO2 and zircon. We also had lower sales of other products as compared to the prior year. Loss from operations was $43 million in the quarter, and we reported a net loss attributable to Tronox of $99 million, including $27 million of restructuring and other charges primarily related to the closure of Botlek.

謝謝你，約翰。翻到第5張投影片。由於二氧化鈦和鋯石的銷量下降以及價格不利，我們實現了 6.99 億美元的收入，比去年同期下降了 13%。與前一年相比，我們其他產品的銷售量也有所下降。本季營運虧損為 4,300 萬美元，歸屬於 Tronox 的淨虧損為 9,900 萬美元，其中包括 2,700 萬美元的重組和其他費用，主要與 Botlek 的關閉有關。

While our loss before tax was $92 million, our tax expense was $8 million in the quarter as we do not realize tax benefits in jurisdictions where we are incurring losses. Adjusted diluted earnings per share was a loss of $0.46. Adjusted EBITDA in the quarter was $74 million, and our adjusted EBITDA margin was 10.6%. Free cash flow was a use of $137 million, including $80 million of capital expenditures.

雖然我們稅前虧損為 9,200 萬美元，但本季我們的稅金支出為 800 萬美元，因為我們在發生虧損的地區無法獲得稅收優惠。調整後的稀釋每股收益為虧損 0.46 美元。本季經調整後的 EBITDA 為 7,400 萬美元，經調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率為 10.6%。自由現金流為 1.37 億美元，其中包括 8,000 萬美元的資本支出。

Now let's move to the next slide for a review of our commercial performance. As John covered earlier, in the third quarter, we saw further demand weakness and heightened competition, putting pressure on TiO2 and zircon sales. TiO2 revenues decreased 11% versus the year ago quarter, driven by an 8% decrease in volumes and a 5% decline in average selling prices, partially offset by a 2% favorable exchange rate impact.

現在讓我們進入下一張投影片，回顧一下我們的商業表現。正如約翰之前提到的，第三季度，我們看到需求進一步疲軟，競爭加劇，給二氧化鈦和鋯石的銷售帶來了壓力。二氧化鈦營收較上年同期下降 11%，主要原因是銷量下降 8% 和平均售價下降 5%，部分被 2% 的有利匯率影響所抵銷。

Sequentially, TiO2 sales declined 6%, driven by a 4% decrease in volumes and a 3% decrease in price, partially offset by a favorable 1% exchange rate impact from the Euro. Europe, Middle East, and North America saw sharper seasonal declines amid market weakness, destocking, and competitive pressures. Latin America experienced typical seasonal uplift, although weaker than expected, while Asia-Pacific growth was muted by competition and a temporary stay on India anti-dumping duties.

環比來看，二氧化鈦銷量下降了 6%，主要原因是銷量下降了 4%，價格下降了 3%，但歐元匯率帶來的 1% 的有利影響部分抵消了這一降幅。受市場疲軟、去庫存和競爭壓力的影響，歐洲、中東和北美地區的季節性跌幅更為顯著。拉丁美洲經歷了典型的季節性成長，儘管低於預期，而亞太地區的成長則受到競爭和印度反傾銷稅暫時中止的抑制。

Zircon revenues decreased 20% compared to the prior year due to a 16% decrease in price including mix and a 4% decline in volumes driven by continued demand weakness, primarily in China. Sequentially, zircon revenues decreased 13%, driven by a 7% decrease in volumes and a 6% decrease in price including mix. Revenue from other products decreased 21% compared to the prior year due to higher sales volumes in the prior year. Sequentially, other revenue increased 18%, reflecting higher sales of pig iron and heavy mineral concentrate tailings in the third quarter.

由於價格（包括產品組合）下降 16% 以及受持續疲軟的需求（主要來自中國）導致銷量下降 4%，鋯石收入與去年相比下降了 20%。鋯石收入較上季下降 13%，主要原因是銷售量下降 7% 和價格（包括產品組合）下降 6%。由於去年銷量較高，其他產品的收入比前一年下降了 21%。第三季其他營收季增 18%，反映出生鐵和重礦物精礦尾礦的銷售量增加。

Turning to the next slide, I will now review our operating performance for the quarter. Our adjusted EBITDA of $74 million represented a 48% decline year-on-year as a result of unfavorable commercial impacts, higher freight costs, and higher production costs, partially offset by exchange rate tailwinds and SG&A savings. Sequentially, adjusted EBITDA declined 20%.

接下來，我將翻到下一張投影片，回顧我們本季的營運表現。由於不利的商業影響、更高的貨運成本和更高的生產成本，我們調整後的 EBITDA 為 7,400 萬美元，年減 48%，部分被匯率利多和銷售、管理及行政費用節省所抵銷。調整後的 EBITDA 環比下降 20%。

Unfavorable average selling prices, including mix, lower sales volume of TiO2 and zircon, higher production costs and unfavorable exchange rate impacts were partially offset by the sale of heavy mineral concentrate tailings and SG&A savings. Production costs were unfavorable by $4 million compared to the prior year and $7 million unfavorable compared to Q2. Both were a result of unfavorable LCM and idle facility adjustments due to lower pricing and higher costs from reduced operating rates.

不利的平均售價（包括產品組合）、二氧化鈦和鋯石銷售下降、生產成本上升以及不利的匯率影響，部分被重礦物精礦尾礦的銷售和銷售、管理及行政費用的節省所抵消。與去年同期相比，生產成本不利增加了 400 萬美元；與第二季相比，生產成本不利增加了 700 萬美元。兩者都是由於不利的低成本市場和閒置設施調整造成的，原因是價格下降和營運率降低導致成本上升。

These were partially offset by lower cost tons sold in the quarter as a result of the self-help actions that we initiated with our sustainable cost improvement program. Without these proactive actions, the headwinds would have been more significant.

由於我們啟動了可持續成本改進計劃，採取了自助措施，導致本季銷售的噸位成本降低，部分抵消了上述損失。如果沒有這些積極主動的措施，遇到的阻力會更大。

Turning to the next slide. As John mentioned earlier, we raised $400 million of secured notes in the third quarter to enhance available liquidity and repay borrowings under our revolving credit facilities. With that, we ended the quarter with total debt of $3.2 billion and net debt of $3.0 billion. Our net leverage ratio at the end of September was 7.5 times on a trailing 12-month basis.

翻到下一張投影片。正如約翰之前提到的，我們在第三季籌集了 4 億美元的擔保票據，以增強可用流動性並償還我們循環信貸安排下的借款。至此，本季末我們的總債務為 32 億美元，淨債務為 30 億美元。截至 9 月底，我們過去 12 個月的淨槓桿率為 7.5 倍。

Our weighted average interest rate in Q3 was approximately 6%, and we maintained interest rate swaps such that approximately 77% of our interest rates are fixed through 2028. Importantly, our next significant debt maturity is not until 2029. We also do not have any financial covenants on our term loans or bonds.

第三季我們的加權平均利率約為 6%，我們維持了利率互換，使得約 77% 的利率在 2028 年之前保持固定。重要的是，我們下一筆重大債務到期日要到 2029 年。我們的定期貸款或債券也沒有任何財務契約。

We do have one springing financial covenant on our US revolver that we do not expect to trigger. Liquidity as of September 30 that was $664 million, including $185 million in cash and cash equivalents that are well distributed across the globe that we are able to move around with little to no frictional cost. Working capital was a use of approximately $55 million, excluding $30 million of restructuring payments related to the closure of our Botlek site.

我們的美國循環信貸額度中有一項觸發式財務契約，我們預期不會觸發。截至 9 月 30 日，公司流動資金為 6.64 億美元，其中包括 1.85 億美元的現金及現金等價物，這些資金已在全球各地廣泛分佈，我們可以以極低的摩擦成本進行調動。營運資金使用額約 5,500 萬美元，不包括與關閉博特萊克工廠相關的 3,000 萬美元重組付款。

This was due to the decrease in accounts payable driven by lower purchases and cash improvement actions and increase in accounts receivable. Changes in inventories was a much lower source of cash than expected as a result of lower sales volumes. Our capital expenditures totaled $80 million in the quarter with approximately 59% allocated to maintenance and safety and 41% almost exclusively dedicated to the mining extensions in South Africa to sustain our integrated cost advantage.

這是由於採購減少和現金改善措施導致應付帳款減少，以及應收帳款增加所致。由於銷售量下降，庫存變動帶來的現金收入遠低於預期。本季我們的資本支出總額為 8,000 萬美元，其中約 59% 用於維護和安全，41% 幾乎全部用於南非的採礦擴展，以維持我們的綜合成本優勢。

We returned $20 million to shareholders in the form of dividends paid in the third quarter. The Q4 dividend reflects the updated $0.05 per share level. I want to reaffirm our commitment to improving cash flow and optimizing working capital. We are implementing targeted actions to reduce inventory through lowering production rates across all areas of our operation. And we continue to remain disciplined around capital expenditures as illustrated around our actions with the West mine. I remain confident in our ability to weather this prolonged downturn.

我們在第三季以股息的形式向股東返還了 2000 萬美元。第四季股息反映了更新後的每股0.05美元水準。我想重申我們致力於改善現金流和優化營運資本的承諾。我們正在採取有針對性的措施，透過降低營運各環節的生產力來減少庫存。正如我們在西礦項目上的做法所表明的那樣，我們將繼續在資本支出方面保持謹慎。我對我們應對這場長期經濟衰退的能力仍然充滿信心。

With that, I'll hand it back to John to review these actions in more detail. John?

這樣，我就把任務交還給約翰，讓他更詳細地檢視這些行動。約翰？

Thanks, John. So turning to slide 9. As outlined at the starting of the call, we have seen positive developments on anti-dumping this year. This slide summarized the monthly Chinese exports to the four key regions that finalized duties in 2025. While India's duties are currently stayed, we have a high level of confidence that they will be reinstated in the near future.

謝謝你，約翰。現在來看第9張投影片。正如電話會議開始時所述，今年我們在反傾銷方面看到了積極的進展。這張投影片總結了中國每月對四個將於 2025 年最終確定關稅的重點地區的出口情況。雖然印度的關稅目前暫停徵收，但我們非常有信心在不久的將來恢復徵收。

As the data shows, the implementation of anti-dumping duties has had a measurable and meaningful impact on Chinese imports in the EU, Brazil and India, and we would expect to see this trend carry into Saudi Arabia as the governments reinforce their commitment to local investment and sustainability. At the peak, these markets imported a total of approximately 800,000 tons of TiO2 from China. While we do not anticipate this figure to go to zero, we have and expect to continue to see a meaningful reduction in exports to these markets and share growth for Tronox.

數據顯示，反傾銷稅的實施對中國產品在歐盟、巴西和印度的進口產生了可衡量的、有意義的影響，我們預計隨著沙烏地阿拉伯政府加強對本地投資和永續發展的承諾，這一趨勢也將蔓延到沙烏地阿拉伯。高峰時期，這些市場從中國進口了約 80 萬噸二氧化鈦。雖然我們預計這一數字不會降至零，但我們已經並將繼續看到對這些市場的出口和 Tronox 的份額增長顯著下降。

As a reference, the US has had tariffs in place on TiO2 since 2018 when the Section 301 tariffs were put in place under President Trump's first administration. Chinese exports to the region have remained consistently below 20,000 metric tons per year in a market that consumes approximately 900,000 metric tons. These developments are extremely positive for Tronox, especially as the sole domestic producer in Brazil and Saudi Arabia and a significant participant in the EU and Indian markets as well as the US market.

作為參考，美國自 2018 年起對二氧化鈦徵收關稅，當時川普總統的第一屆政府實施了 301 條款關稅。中國對該地區的出口量一直低於每年 2 萬噸，而該地區的市場消費量約為每年 90 萬噸。這些發展對 Tronox 來說非常積極，尤其是作為巴西和沙烏地阿拉伯唯一的本土生產商，以及歐盟、印度和美國市場的重要參與者。

Combining this with the industry's idled mining capacity and over 1.1 million tons of global TiO2 supply that has been taken offline since 2023, the majority of which we believe is permanent, the industry is undergoing a structural shift that supports a supply-demand rebalance. As the most vertically integrated TiO2 producer, Tronox is well positioned to capitalize on this opportunity created by the rebalancing of the market.

結合產業閒置的採礦產能和自 2023 年以來停產的超過 110 萬噸全球二氧化鈦供應（我們認為其中大部分是永久性的），該產業正在經歷一場結構性轉變，以支持供需再平衡。作為垂直整合程度最高的二氧化鈦生產商，Tronox 已做好充分準備，抓住市場重新平衡所帶來的機會。

Turning to slide 10. We remain actively engaged in advancing our rare earth strategy. With high concentrations of rare earth in our mineral deposits and decades of expertise in mining and mineral processing, we're uniquely positioned to play a significant role across the value chain from mining to upgrading. We are already mining monazite in Australia and South Africa, but our capabilities extend beyond mining.

翻到第10張投影片。我們將繼續積極推動稀土戰略。我們的礦藏中稀土含量很高，而且我們在採礦和礦物加工方面擁有數十年的專業經驗，因此我們擁有獨特的優勢，可以在從採礦到提煉的整個價值鏈中發揮重要作用。我們已經在澳洲和南非開採獨居石，但我們的能力不僅限於採礦。

We operate both hydro and pyrometallurgical processes and employ over 400 engineers, geologists, and metallurgists among our 6,500 employees. Combined with our global footprint, we have the flexibility to optimize where we participate along the rare earths value chain.

我們採用濕式冶金和火法冶金工藝，在6,500名員工中，有400多位工程師、地質學家和冶金學家。結合我們的全球佈局，我們可以靈活地優化我們在稀土價值鏈中的參與位置。

As a part of this strategy, in October, we took a 5% equity interest in Lion Rock Minerals, a mineral exploration company whose Minta and Minta East deposits have the potential to be a major source of high-quality monazite and rutile. This investment represents an attractive opportunity with minimal overburden and has substantial potential for resource development in support of our rare earth strategy.

作為該策略的一部分，我們在 10 月收購了 Lion Rock Minerals 5% 的股權。 Lion Rock Minerals 是一家礦產勘探公司，其 Minta 和 Minta East 礦床有可能成為優質獨居石和金紅石的主要來源。這項投資機會極具吸引力，覆蓋層極小，具有巨大的資源開發潛力，能夠支持我們的稀土策略。

Now turning to slide 11, I'll review our updated outlook. We are now expecting Q4 2025 revenue and adjusted EBITDA to be relatively flat to Q3 of '25. This is primarily driven by weaker-than-anticipated pricing on TiO2 and zircon as a result of more aggressive competitive activity in the market, partially offset by improving volumes across both TiO2 and zircon.

現在請看第 11 張投影片，我將回顧我們更新後的展望。我們現在預計 2025 年第四季的營收和調整後的 EBITDA 將與 2025 年第三季基本持平。這主要是由於市場競爭加劇，導致二氧化鈦和鋯石的價格低於預期，但二氧化鈦和鋯石的銷量均有所提高，部分抵消了這種影響。

Although our outlook has been revised lower from our previous guidance, we expect fourth quarter TiO2 volumes to increase 3% to 5%, net of a 2% volume headwind from idling our Fuzhou facility and zircon volumes to increase 15% to 20% sequentially in part due to the rolled bulk order from Q3 to Q4. These are strong leading indicators for the fourth quarter, which is normally lower due to seasonality and directionally in line with what we would historically seen on the front end of a recovery.

儘管我們的預期已從先前的指導下調，但我們預計第四季度二氧化鈦產量將增長 3% 至 5%，扣除福州工廠停產帶來的 2% 產量不利因素；鋯產量將環比增長 15% 至 20%，部分原因是第三季度的大宗訂單延續至第四季度。這些都是第四季度的強大領先指標，由於季節性因素，第四季度通常會較低，而且從方向上看，這與我們歷史上在復甦初期所看到的趨勢一致。

On the cost side, we continue to execute on our cost reducing measures as previously outlined. Our sustainable cost improvement program is expected to exceed over $60 million of run rate savings by the end of the year. And as I mentioned earlier, we have temporarily idled our Fuzhou pigment plant and one of our furnaces at our Namakwa site, lowered operating rates at Stallingborough pigment plant and will soon initiate a temporary shutdown of our West mine.

在成本方面，我們將繼續執行先前製定的成本削減措施。我們的永續成本改進計畫預計到年底將節省超過 6,000 萬美元的營運成本。正如我之前提到的，我們已經暫時關閉了福州顏料廠和納馬誇工廠的一座熔爐，降低了斯託林伯勒顏料廠的運營率，並將很快暫時關閉西部礦山。

We will continue to assess further measures across mining and pigment sites to ensure production remains closely aligned with prevailing market conditions. These actions position us for positive free cash flow in the fourth quarter and 2026.

我們將繼續評估各礦場和顏料廠的進一步措施，以確保生產與當前市場狀況保持緊密聯繫。這些措施使我們預計在第四季和 2026 年實現正自由現金流。

With regards to our cash use items for the year, we expect the following: net cash interest of approximately $150 million, net taxes of less than $5 million and capital expenditures of approximately $330 million. And we expect working capital to be a slight source of cash for the fourth quarter.

關於我們今年的現金使用項目，我們預計如下：淨現金利息約為 1.5 億美元，淨稅款不到 500 萬美元，資本支出約為 3.3 億美元。我們預計營運資金將在第四季提供少量現金。

Turning to the next slide, I'll review our capital allocation strategy before we move the call to Q&A. Our capital allocation priorities remain unchanged and focused on cash generation. We continue investing to maintain our assets, our vertical integration, and projects critical to furthering our strategy, including rare earths.

接下來，我將在下一張投影片中回顧我們的資本配置策略，然後再進入問答環節。我們的資本配置重點保持不變，仍專注於現金流的產生。我們將繼續投資以維護我們的資產、垂直整合以及對推進我們策略至關重要的項目，包括稀土。

We have taken decisive action to reduce our capital expenditures over the course of the year. For 2026, while we have some catch-up capital from delayed projects in 2025, we expect capital to be less than $275 million in the year. We continue to focus on bolstering liquidity. With the actions taken in the third quarter, we have ample liquidity to manage the business and endure market fluctuations.

我們已採取果斷措施，在年內削減資本支出。2026 年，雖然我們有一些來自 2025 年延期項目的追趕資金，但我們預計當年的資金將少於 2.75 億美元。我們將繼續專注於增強流動性。透過第三季採取的措施，我們擁有充足的流動資金來管理業務並應對市場波動。

Last quarter, we lowered the dividend by 60% to align with the current macro environment. And as the market recovers, we will resume debt paydown, targeting mid- to long-term net leverage range of less than 3 times. We will continue to focus on what we can control and influence and reinforce the business through cost reduction and cash improvement actions.

上個季度，為了適應當前的宏觀環境，我們將股息降低了 60%。隨著市場復甦，我們將恢復償還債務，目標是在中長期將淨槓桿率控制在 3 倍以下。我們將繼續專注於我們能夠控制和影響的方面，並透過降低成本和改善現金流的措施來加強業務。

As the most vertically integrated TiO2 producer, Tronox is well positioned to capitalize on the opportunity created by the rebalancing of the market, evidenced by the effect of anti-dumping duties and supply rationalization in the industry. I remain confident in our ability to navigate this environment and deliver meaningful value for shareholders.

作為垂直整合程度最高的二氧化鈦生產商，Tronox 已做好充分準備，抓住市場重新平衡所帶來的機會。反傾銷稅和產業供應合理化措施的影響就證明了這一點。我對公司應對當前環境並為股東創造有意義價值的能力仍然充滿信心。

And with that, we'll turn the question back over to the operator for the Q&A session. Operator?

接下來，我們將把問題交還給接線員，進行問答環節。操作員？

(Operator Instructions) James Cannon, UBS.

（操作說明）詹姆斯‧坎農，瑞銀集團。

I think the first thing I wanted to poke on was just around some of the antidumping measures you're seeing. Just given the movement with India pausing their tariffs for a while, it seems like if I square that against the new measures in Brazil and Saudi Arabia, that would be a net negative in terms of like market size. Can you talk about how those dynamics are playing into your volume guidance?

我想首先探討的就是你們看到的一些反傾銷措施。鑑於印度暫停徵收關稅的舉措，如果將其與巴西和沙烏地阿拉伯的新措施進行對比，從市場規模來看，這似乎會產生淨負面影響。您能否談談這些因素如何影響您的成交量預期？

Yes. So you're right, the Brazil market and the Saudi Arabia market collectively are, in fact, lower than the demand in India. But I will say that we have a high level of confidence that those duties are going to be reinstated. And we're hoping that's going to happen before the end of the year. We are not obviously not having a facility there actively engaged in those negotiations, but we're very informed in what's going on, and we do believe the DGTR will make a decision prior to year-end.

是的。所以你說得對，巴西市場和沙烏地阿拉伯市場加起來的需求其實低於印度的需求。但我可以肯定地說，我們非常有信心這些職責將會恢復。我們希望這件事能在年底前發生。我們顯然沒有在那裡設立機構積極參與這些談判，但我們非常了解正在發生的事情，我們相信DGTR會在年底前做出決定。

So the duties in India are currently still being collected. And if for whatever reason, those duties get reinstated, nothing is really changing. So when we look at the exports, we are -- there is a bit of a headwind where we were expecting more volume in the fourth quarter. When we think about our prior guidance, we were guiding to a higher number. We're still guiding to 3% to 5% more than what we were in the third quarter, and we're seeing some pick up there, but not as much as we had originally anticipated.

所以目前印度仍在徵收關稅。即使出於某種原因，這些職責被恢復，實際上也沒有什麼改變。所以，當我們檢視出口情況時，我們發現──存在一些不利因素，我們原本預期第四季的出口量會更大。回顧我們先前的預測，我們當時預測的數字更高。我們仍然預計成長率將比第三季高出 3% 到 5%，而且我們看到這方面有所回升，但不如我們最初預期的那麼明顯。

With Brazil and Saudi Arabia, we think that that is a unique opportunity. When you think about the duties that were implemented in Brazil, they were significantly higher than the provisional duties in many instances with the larger importers doubled. So you should think about a number of around $1,200 per ton across all importers. So that's a significant play. We're the sole producer there.

我們認為，與巴西和沙烏地阿拉伯的合作是一個獨特的機會。當你想到巴西實施的關稅時，你會發現它們在許多情況下都遠高於臨時關稅，而大型進口商的關稅更是翻了一番。所以你應該考慮所有進口商每噸大約 1200 美元的價格。所以這是一場意義重大的進攻。我們是那裡的唯一生產商。

Saudi Arabia, what I can tell you is that was a -- we were expecting that to happen, but not as soon as it did. And we are the only producer there, and we also think we're going to have a unique opportunity there. So when we start to think about those volumes and that shift that I referenced on the call in the prepared comments about Q3 numbers versus Q4 numbers, it's not just a projection. We're looking at our -- October is already complete. And when we look at across every month that we've sold so far, if you recall, our first quarter sales were actually pretty strong.

沙烏地阿拉伯，我可以告訴你的是——我們預料到這種情況會發生，但沒想到會這麼快。我們是那裡唯一的生產商，我們認為我們將在那裡擁有一個獨特的機會。所以，當我們開始考慮這些銷售以及我在電話會議上準備好的評論中提到的關於第三季度與第四季度數字的變化時，這不僅僅是一個預測。我們正在查看——十月已經結束了。如果我們回顧一下迄今為止的每個月的銷售情況，如果你還記得的話，我們第一季的銷售額實際上相當強勁。

March was our strongest month, and then we saw our volumes decline because we had a lot of other destocking going on, all the things that we referenced earlier. But our October sales, which are now complete, were the second largest month this year and equivalent to the March sales. And when we look into November and December, November is trending in the same way. We have very good vision on November and December orders. So I know there's probably some trepidation around what we're saying with regards to confidence level in the numbers, but that 3% to 5% that we're looking at with regards to growth Q3 to Q4 is very much in our line of sight.

三月是我們業績最好的一個月，之後我們的銷售量開始下降，因為我們當時正在進行大量的去庫存工作，也就是我們之前提到的所有事情。但我們已經完成了 10 月的銷售，這是今年第二高的月份，與 3 月的銷售額持平。當我們觀察11月和12月時，會發現11月的趨勢與此相同。我們對11月和12月的訂單狀況有非常清晰的預期。我知道大家可能對我們所說的數字的信心水平有些擔憂，但我們預計第三季到第四季的成長目標為 3% 到 5%，這完全在我們的預期之中。

Got it. And then I just had one follow-up on the rare earths opportunity. You talked about having some capabilities with chemical conversion. But if you could give a little more detail and just unpack for us what you can do in the rare earth space in kind of the refining type downstream piece of that market and whether or not you can do that with your current footprint or that would need additional capital or a partner?

知道了。然後，我又跟進了一次稀土計畫的機會。你提到你們在化學轉化方面具備一些能力。但是，如果您能提供更多細節，並為我們詳細說明您在稀土領域的下游精煉環節可以做些什麼，以及您是否能夠以目前的規模做到這一點，還是需要額外的資金或合作夥伴？

Okay. Yes. So look, on the rare earth side of the business, obviously, we've been mining forever, and I made reference that mining is not the only capability that we have. So we're already in the concentration business. So that's just producing rare earth mineral concentrate and have historically been selling that. The next step in that value chain would be cracking and leaching. We've already completed a pre-feasibility study and have started a definitive feasibility study on that production. We've located a site where that would be in Australia.

好的。是的。所以你看，就稀土業務而言，顯然我們一直在開採，而且我也提到過，開採並不是我們唯一的能力。所以我們已經涉足濃縮業務了。所以，我們一直在生產稀土礦物精礦，並且一直以來都在銷售這種精礦。此價值鏈的下一步是裂解和浸出。我們已經完成了初步可行性研究，並已開始對此生產項目進行最終可行性研究。我們在澳洲找到了一個合適的地點。

Look, moving down into refining and separation, that is work that's going to require for us to do some work with a partner. We're engaged with a lot of different participants across multiple jurisdictions. We have nondisclosure agreements in place, so we aren't at liberty to elaborate on who that is. But we're well positioned with our current capacity as well as some of the things that we referenced. So we made a small investment in a company called Lion Rock. That company has a very interesting deposit.

你看，接下來要進行提煉和分離，這項工作需要我們與合作夥伴一起完成。我們與多個司法管轄區的眾多不同參與者都有合作。我們簽有保密協議，所以不能透露具體是誰。但憑藉我們目前的產能以及我們提到的一些因素，我們處於有利地位。所以我們對一家名為 Lion Rock 的公司進行了一筆小額投資。那家公司有一筆非常有趣的存款。

We've looked at it. We've actually sent our people there. We made the investment so that we could now validate the work that they've done. There's still a lot of work to do there, but it's not only our current mining, we're looking longer term at how we can continue to support that growth. There will be capital involved. And as we have more information, we'll articulate that. But at this particular stage, that's about where we'll have to close off the discussion with regards to development there.

我們已經看過了。我們已經派人去了那裡。我們進行這項投資是為了驗證他們所做的工作。那裡還有很多工作要做，但這不僅關乎我們目前的採礦活動，我們還在著眼於更長遠的未來，思考如何才能繼續支持這種成長。這會牽涉到資金投入。隨著我們掌握更多信息，我們會進一步闡述。但就目前而言，關於該地區的發展，我們只能就此結束討論了。

Peter Osterland, Truist Securities.

彼得‧奧斯特蘭（Peter Osterland），Truist 證券公司。

I just wanted to ask (technical difficulty) Fuzhou and lower operating rates (technical difficulty). Do you have a specific time frame in mind at this point for how long (technical difficulty) to continue industry (technical difficulty) could these actions come from.

我只是想問一下（技術難題）福州及較低的營運率（技術難題）目前您是否有一個具體的時間框架，來預測這些措施可能持續多久（技術困難）？

Peter, I'll try to answer your question. It was a bit broken up. It was regarding, I think, the idling of the Fuzhou plant and our actions that we took in Stallingborough. So the Fuzhou plant, we idled that plant to preserve cash. The market, as we've talked about, all of these issues with antidumping are creating a lot of competitive activity inside of China. That is one of our lowest cost plants, but it's obviously operating in one of the lowest priced markets.

彼得，我會盡量回答你的問題。它有點斷斷續續的。我想，這與福州工廠停產以及我們在斯託林伯勒採取的行動有關。所以，為了節省現金，我們讓福州工廠停產了。正如我們之前討論過的，所有這些反傾銷問題都在中國國內造成了大量的競爭活動。這是我們成本最低的工廠之一，但顯然它也處於價格最低的市場之一。

So we've idled that facility. Our plan would be to probably have that offline. We'll make decisions on what we're going to do with that asset as the market unfolds. With regards to Stallingborough, we brought forward some maintenance and have slowed the facility down just to be in line with what the market is doing. So I would expect in the fourth quarter, we'll probably bring that plant back up to full rate.

所以我們已經停用了那座工廠。我們的計劃可能是讓它離線運行。我們將根據市場狀況決定如何處理這筆資產。關於斯託林伯勒工廠，我們提前進行了一些維護工作，並放慢了工廠的運作速度，以適應市場的發展趨勢。所以我預計在第四季度，我們可能會讓工廠恢復滿載運轉。

When you start thinking about all the things that we referenced around these structural changes, we want to make sure that we're positioned to be able to support that inside of Europe. We have a significant position in Europe. The market in Europe has been a bit weaker in the third quarter. When we start thinking about all of the activity that's going on around the supply-demand dynamics right now with the pickup in Q4, I do believe, and I've said this before, but I do believe we're on the front end of a recovery.

當你開始思考我們提到的所有與這些結構性變化相關的事項時，我們希望確保我們能夠在歐洲內部支持這些變化。我們在歐洲擁有重要的地位。歐洲市場第三季表現略顯疲軟。當我們開始思考目前圍繞在供需動態發生的所有活動，以及第四季度的回升時，我確實相信，而且我以前也說過，我們正處於復甦的初期階段。

And front end of the recovery, you start to see demand patterns that are a bit different than what you would historically see. Q4 volumes being up 3% to 4% when they're seasonally normally down is a good sign for us. And the next step beyond that, if we see this continuing to transition in a positive direction, we'll start looking at pricing initiatives. So I'm very encouraged by what we're seeing in the market.

在復甦初期，你會發現需求模式與以往有所不同。第四季銷量通常應為季節性下降，但本季卻成長了 3% 至 4%，這對我們來說是個好兆頭。下一步，如果我們看到這種情況繼續朝著正面的方向發展，我們將開始考慮定價策略。我對目前市場上的情況感到非常鼓舞。

Stallingborough, to be specific, is a short-term action where we brought forward some maintenance, slowed the plant down to manage inventory, but we'll be ready to action that plant at full rates to meet the demand as it returns.

具體來說，斯託林伯勒工廠的停產是一項短期措施，我們提前進行了一些維護工作，放慢了工廠的運轉速度來管理庫存，但一旦工廠恢復運轉，我們將做好準備，以全速運轉來滿足需求。

Very helpful color. And just as a follow-up, thinking about 2026 earnings potential, targeting the $125 million to $175 million of cost savings by the end of 2026. Do you have an estimate of what the year-over-year EBITDA impact will be in '26 versus '25? And what are the swing factors that would drive the low versus the high end of cost savings within that range?

非常實用的顏色。作為後續，考慮到 2026 年的獲利潛力，目標是在 2026 年底前節省 1.25 億美元至 1.75 億美元的成本。您能否估算一下 2026 年與 2025 年相比，EBITDA 年比變動會有多大影響？那麼，影響成本節約幅度（從低端到高端）的關鍵因素是什麼呢？

Yes. So as we've mentioned previously, we have taken action this year, but on the sustainable cost improvement program, but it will take some time for us to flow through our balance sheet and to see it in our results. So in 2025, there's been tons of activity across all of our sites, all of our functions, all of operations. But in 2025, it's primarily been the lower-hanging fruit that we see in our numbers.

是的。正如我們之前提到的，我們今年已經採取了行動，實施可持續成本改善計劃，但還需要一些時間才能將效果體現在我們的資產負債表上，並在業績中體現出來。因此，在 2025 年，我們所有的站點、所有職能部門、所有營運部門都進行了大量的活動。但到 2025 年，我們從數據中看到的主要是那些比較容易實現的目標。

So about $10 million we've seen primarily in SG&A, although as we move into 2026, as John mentioned, we're already on a run rate to end the year at over $60 million. So we should see at least that amount in 2026. It will be more operational focused at that level, and we see it coming through in fixed costs.

因此，我們看到大約 1000 萬美元主要來自銷售、一般及行政費用，儘管正如約翰所提到的，隨著我們進入 2026 年，我們已經按照目前的運行速度，到年底將超過 6000 萬美元。因此，我們應該在2026年至少看到這個數字。那個層面會更重視運營，這一點可以從固定成本中反映出來。

So maybe just adding on to that a little bit because we've had a lot of questions about this sustainable cost improvement program. And this is a bottoms-up process across our entire organization. And at this point, we've identified and acted on almost 2,000 ideas across our network. And out of those, we've got more than 1,100 that have been planned, executed, and fully realized, and we currently have 413 of those ideas that are already delivering value.

所以，我可能要補充一點，因為我們收到了很多關於這個永續成本改進計畫的問題。這是在我們整個組織內自下而上推進的過程。到目前為止，我們已經在我們的網路中識別並實施了近 2000 個想法。其中，我們已經規劃、執行並完全實現了 1100 多個想法，目前已有 413 個想法正在創造價值。

And when you think about how those savings kind of break out, a significant portion of those savings are coming from fixed cost reductions, and we're making good progress on the variable side as well. And we've made some great progress on ore yield improvements at our pigment plants, thanks to some of the investments in our digital infrastructure like TOIS, which is Tronox's operational information system, APC, and other actionable metrics, all working together now, and we're lifting and shifting those progress -- those projects across our network.

當你仔細分析這些節省下來的費用是如何分配的，你會發現其中很大一部分節省來自固定成本的降低，而且我們在可變成本方面也取得了良好的進展。由於我們對數位基礎設施進行了一些投資，例如 TOIS（Tronox 的營運資訊系統）、APC 和其他可操作的指標，我們在顏料廠的礦石產量提高方面取得了巨大進展，所有這些現在都在協同工作，我們正在將這些進展——這些項目——推廣到我們的整個網路。

Now I just add a few more bullets because I think it's important. In addition, some of our other capital investments are now starting to pay off. For example, some of the work that we did in Bunbury to upgrade our cooling and waste infrastructure are now translating into our capability to use lower head grade more efficiently.

現在我再補充幾點，因為我覺得很重要。此外，我們的一些其他資本投資現在也開始產生回報。例如，我們在班伯里為升級冷卻和廢棄物處理基礎設施所做的一些工作，現在正轉化為我們更有效地利用較低水頭等級水的能力。

And we're also realizing benefits from our energy efficiencies and investments in KZN and Namakwa with larger electrodes at our furnaces, making differences in our costs and EMV optimization across all of our mining -- all of the mining side of our business.

我們還透過在誇祖魯-納塔爾省和納馬誇省的煉鐵爐中使用更大的電極來提高能源效率和進行投資，從而降低了我們所有採礦業務的成本並優化了 EMV（電磁相容性），從而改善了我們所有採礦業務的效率。

Our contractor usage has been optimized, and we've significantly reduced our outside services, helping us become more efficient. And we've improved our logistics and optimizations of our MSPs to produce higher-value product mixes that match current market demand and have found new opportunities to improve yield in several areas. And one of the things that we're utilizing now is an app called Power BI. So every one of our people that are engaged in this process across the organization, including myself, have the ability to track these projects on a daily basis. So this isn't something that we're just talking about. It's something that's become ingrained in what we do every day, and we're making great progress on that front.

我們優化了承包商的使用，並大幅減少了外部服務，從而提高了效率。我們改進了物流和MSP優化，以生產更高價值的產品組合，以滿足當前市場需求，並在多個領域找到了提高產量的新機會。我們現在使用的工具之一是一款名為 Power BI 的應用程式。因此，我們組織中參與此過程的每個人，包括我自己，都可以每天追蹤這些項目。所以這不是我們只是在談論的事情。這已經融入我們每天的工作中，而且我們在這方面取得了很大的進步。

Vincent Andrews, Morgan Stanley.

文森安德魯斯，摩根士丹利。

This is Justin Pellegrino on for Vincent. I just wanted to see if you could help us bridge to the positive free cash flow that you stated for 2026 and what assumptions are included within that, specifically if there's any expectation for earnings growth and changes in working capital amongst the other cash items that have been discussed on today's call.

這是賈斯汀·佩萊格里諾替補文森特上場。我只是想請您幫我們解釋一下您所說的 2026 年正自由現金流的實現情況，以及其中包含哪些假設，特別是對於盈利增長和營運資本變化，以及今天電話會議上討論的其他現金項目，是否有任何預期。

Yeah. Thanks, Justin, and I'll try to handle that. And obviously, we aren't giving a guide on 2026 as of yet other than being free cash flow positive. But some of the biggest drivers of improvement 2025 to 2026 include, as we've mentioned, the sustainable cost improvement program, growing from $10 million to well over $60 million year-over-year.

是的。謝謝賈斯汀，我會盡量處理這件事。顯然，除了自由現金流為正之外，我們目前還沒有對 2026 年的情況給予任何指導。但正如我們之前提到的，2025 年至 2026 年的一些最大改進驅動因素包括可持續成本改進計劃，該計劃的資金逐年從 1000 萬美元增長到超過 6000 萬美元。

We are also moving from a building of inventory in 2025 to reducing inventory. Some of that relates to the targeted operational actions that we have mentioned before, which is a $25 million to $30 million savings in Q4. And that should grow to almost $50 million to $80 million, just depending on how long we keep our facilities down for. Additionally, we did mention that CapEx will be reduced, $330 million guided this year to under $275 million for next year.

我們還計劃在 2025 年從增加庫存轉向減少庫存。其中一部分與我們之前提到的有針對性的營運措施有關，預計第四季可節省 2500 萬至 3000 萬美元。而這個數字應該會成長到近 5,000 萬至 8,000 萬美元，具體取決於我們的設施停工時間。此外，我們也提到資本支出將會減少，今年預計為 3.3 億美元，明年將降至 2.75 億美元以下。

And then finally, as you know, we did shut down our bottling facility and the cash restructuring charges we do hit through free cash flow, which was -- should be well behind us -- mostly behind us in 2026. We have roughly $80 million of cash charges in 2025 and a much lower low teens or so expected in 2026. But obviously, it will depend a lot on the commercial market.

最後，如您所知，我們關閉了裝瓶廠，並透過自由現金流支付了現金重組費用，這筆費用應該會在 2026 年基本消除。我們預計 2025 年的現金支出約為 8,000 萬美元，而 2026 年的現金支出預計會低得多，約為 1,000 萬美元左右。但很顯然，這很大程度取決於商業市場。

Great. And then just one more. I was hoping you could kind of talk about the higher-than-expected destocking that you saw downstream. Can you frame that just relative to historical averages? And then what are you hearing throughout the supply chain regarding expectations for rebuilding any sort of inventory in the channel?

偉大的。然後，就再來一個。我希望你能談談下游地區出現的超出預期的減產情況。你能把它僅與歷史平均水平進行比較嗎？那麼，您從整個供應鏈中了解到，對於通路中任何形式的庫存重建，各方有何預期？

Yes. So look, that -- I think the destocking, in my opinion, took a little bit -- it happened a little bit sooner than we would normally in the year. So we weren't anticipating a lot of that destocking to happen in the third quarter. Quite frankly, a significant amount of it happened in September, so right at the end of the quarter. So it was a bit unexpected. That being said, we think that a lot of that destocking has already taken place. And so when we start to look at our order pattern in the fourth quarter, a lot of it is just, I think, our customers going back to normal buying patterns.

是的。所以你看，我認為——在我看來，去庫存化進程稍微提前了一些——它比往年同期發生得早了一些。因此，我們預計第三季不會出現大量的去庫存情況。坦白說，其中很大一部分發生在九月份，也就是季度末。所以有點出乎意料。也就是說，我們認為很多庫存削減已經發生。因此，當我們開始觀察第四季度的訂單模式時，我認為很大程度上是因為我們的客戶恢復了正常的購買模式。

Again, when we start to think about a recovery, it's going to be different this time. And it's large -- at the front end of it, it's going to be based on a lot of this restructuring that's happened that's been fueled by all these antidumping initiatives. And then when you think about the duty affected areas, including the US, which I noted on the call, was actually started under the First Trump administration with the Section 301 tariffs, you've got markets that consume 2.7 million tons of TiO2 that now have duty impacts.

再說一遍，當我們開始考慮復甦的時候，這次的情況將會不同。而且規模很大——在初期階段，它將基於大量的重組，而這些重組又是由所有這些反傾銷措施所推動的。然後，當你考慮到受關稅影響的地區，包括美國（我在電話會議上提到過，這實際上是在川普第一任政府時期透過 301 條款關稅開始的），你會發現，有 270 萬噸二氧化鈦消費市場現在受到了關稅的影響。

And that's starting to play favorably because a lot of those markets are markets that we participate in. And I know we've been talking about it for a long time, but it's starting to actually show up in the numbers. That paired with some of the competitive activity that was generated by one of our competitors that went through an insolvency, it's our opinion that that inventory will be liquidated soon. And we're starting to see buying patterns in the European market, which would reflect that. India, still a big market for us.

而這開始對我們有利，因為很多這樣的市場都是我們參與的市場。我知道我們已經討論這個問題很久了，但現在它真的開始在數據上體現出來了。再加上我們的一家競爭對手破產後引發的一些競爭活動，我們認為這些庫存很快就會被清算。我們開始看到歐洲市場的購買模式，這反映了這一點。印度仍然是我們一個重要的市場。

The duties have been stayed. We have high level of confidence that they're going to come back, hopefully, before the end of the year. And at this particular stage, although muted from our prior expectations, we're still seeing growth in that region. So again, I think there's a lot of reasons to be optimistic about where we are in the cycle. We're 3.5 years into a downturn, and I can say with 100% certainty that it will turn. And it's my assumption that we're on the front end of that at this stage.

這些職責已被暫停。我們非常有信心他們會回來，希望在年底前回來。雖然目前增速低於我們先前的預期，但我們仍然看到該地區正在成長。所以，我認為有很多理由讓我們對目前所處的周期階段保持樂觀。經濟衰退已經持續了三年半，我可以百分之百肯定地說，經濟一定會好轉。我的假設是，我們目前還處於這個階段的初期。

(Operator Instructions) John McNulty, BMO Capital Markets.

（操作員說明）John McNulty，BMO 資本市場。

This is John Roberts. I heard you call John McNulty, but I'm just checking whether you can hear me. Will LB be able to use their new position in the UK to bring Chinese ore in and serve the rest of the European market without a tariff?

這位是約翰羅伯茲。我聽到你叫約翰·麥克納爾蒂，但我只是想確認你是否能聽到我的聲音。LB能否利用其在英國的新地位，將中國礦石進口到歐洲其他地區，而無需繳納關稅？

John, look there's a lot left to be done with the announcement that LB is going to be acquiring that asset in the UK. There's a lot of regulatory work to go through. So I would say by no means is that a slam dunk. I can't speak to what they may do. That asset is down. The longer that asset is down, the harder it's going to be to be brought back up. And having done a lot of work trying to buy assets in Europe historically, I would just say there's a lot of wood to chop there.

約翰，你看，關於LB將收購英國那項資產的公告還有很多工作要做。還有很多監管方面的工作要做。所以我覺得這絕對不是板上釘釘的事。我無法預測他們會怎麼做。該資產價格下跌。該資產下跌的時間越長，就越難使其回升。我過去曾做了很多工作，試圖在歐洲收購資產，我只想說，那裡有很多東西需要砍伐。

Okay. And do you have any rare earth activity going on in South Africa as well?

好的。你們在南非也有稀土開採活動嗎？

We mine in South Africa and Australia and monazite is present in both deposits. What we're doing right now is actioning the majority of what we have in Australia. But yes, we have monazite in South Africa and some of the things that we've done historically, although this last sale of mineral concentrate didn't have much rare earth in it. Historically, we have and continued to mine.

我們在南非和澳洲開採開採西藏，這兩個礦床都含有獨居石。我們現在正在做的，是將我們在澳洲所擁有的大部分資源付諸實踐。是的，南非有獨居石，而且我們歷史上也做過一些相關的事情，儘管最近一次礦物精礦的銷售中稀土含量並不高。從歷史上看，我們一直在開採採礦資源。

And as long as we're mining in both those regions, we're getting monazite, which has both light and heavy rare earths in it. And we're developing a process forward to monetize that in a way which we can move down the value chain.

只要我們在這兩個地區繼續開採，我們就能獲得獨居石，獨居石中既含有輕稀土也含有重稀土。我們正在製定一個流程，以將其貨幣化，從而能夠沿著價值鏈向下發展。

Furthest we're going to move down that chain would probably be the refining side. The metallization and magnet production is not something that we feel we're uniquely positioned to do. But being a mining company that's regularly involved in mineral upgrading, it's a natural fit for us to look at concentration, acid leaching and cracking and refining and separation.

我們在這個產業鏈上能走得最遠的可能就是煉油環節了。我們認為我們在金屬化和磁鐵生產方面並沒有獨特的優勢。但作為一家經常參與礦物純化的礦業公司，我們自然而然地專注於濃縮、酸浸、裂解、精煉和分離等領域。

Roger Spitz, Bank of America Securities. (Operator Instructions)

羅傑‧斯皮茨，美國銀行證券。（操作說明）

I just want to understand the updated guidance for either 2025 working capital outflow and 2025 free cash flow or discuss the Q4 numbers because you've got -- you said working capital is only a slight inflow even though you're idling all these assets. So can you update us on either Q4 or full year 2025, both working capital as well as free cash flow?

我只是想了解一下關於 2025 年營運資金流出和 2025 年自由現金流的最新指引，或者討論一下第四季度的數據，因為你們說過——即使你們所有這些資產都閒置著，營運資金也只是略微流入。能否提供一下 2025 年第四季或全年的營運資金和自由現金流狀況？

So I'll start and then I'll let John add on to it. But to be clear with the idling of the assets. So obviously, it will be a working capital gain for us on the Fuzhou facility, slowing down Stallingborough and bringing forward maintenance will be a benefit. But -- and also on the furnace because that furnace actually was idled on September 15.

那我先開始，然後讓約翰補充。但需要明確的是，這些資產處於閒置狀態。顯然，福州工廠的停工和提前進行維護將為我們帶來營運資金收益，這對我們有利。但是——也與爐子有關，因為該爐子實際上在 9 月 15 日處於閒置狀態。

We're just reporting that now. But the West mine, which is a significant process. Again, we made reference that, that's going to happen as we bring on East OFS. East OFS is starting commissioning on November 17. And as we finish that commissioning, we'll then bring that West mine down.

我們現在只是報道這件事。但西礦是一個重要的過程。我們再次提到，隨著東部 OFS 的引入，這種情況將會發生。東部OFS將於11月17日開始調試。完成調試後，我們將拆除西礦。

The West mine, if you think about that particular asset, we had an East and a West mine. East OFS is replacing the East mine. And the West mine will continue to run and operate, but to preserve cash, we're idling that as soon as we bring on East OFS and East OFS is going to have that higher grade mineral -- heavy mineral concentrate that will become into the network as we referenced on the call.

就西礦而言，如果你想想這個特定的資產，我們當時有東礦和西礦。東部OFS正在取代東部礦井。西礦將繼續運營，但為了節省現金，我們將暫停該礦的運營，一旦我們啟動東礦區，東礦區將擁有更高品位的礦物——重礦物精礦，正如我們在電話會議中提到的，這些礦物將進入礦網。

So John, do you want to add more?

約翰，你還要補充什麼嗎？

Yes. I think just to answer your question; I'll give you a little more details. But through year-to-date Q3, obviously, it was a significant use on working capital and free cash flow, roughly $190 million use on working capital and about over $300 million use in free cash flow. And we mentioned that we were going to be positive both on free cash flow and working capital for Q4. So obviously, maintaining that and slight improvement over both. I do think you need to look at what happened in Q3 and to understand what the drivers are in Q4.

是的。為了回答你的問題，我再補充一些細節。但就今年第三季至今的情況來看，顯然，這筆支出對營運資金和自由現金流造成了重大影響，營運資金支出約 1.9 億美元，自由現金流支出超過 3 億美元。我們之前提到過，第四季我們的自由現金流和營運資本都將為正值。所以很明顯，要保持這種狀態，並在兩者的基礎上略有改進。我認為你需要回顧第三季發生的事情，才能了解第四季的驅動因素是什麼。

So as John mentioned, we did have a lot of commercial impacts negatively with the antidumping delays in India, with the Europe competitors insolvency and then competitive dynamic in China and rolling of shipment on zircon from Q3 to Q4. And obviously, that zircon shipment will help us in Q4. And then we did have a tailings sale in Q3.

正如約翰所提到的，由於印度的反傾銷延遲、歐洲競爭對手的破產以及中國的競爭動態，還有鋯石出貨量從第三季度推遲到第四季度，我們的商業受到了很大的負面影響。顯然，這批鋯石的到貨將對我們第四季的業務有所幫助。然後我們在第三季進行了一次尾礦銷售。

But obviously, that went to -- as that happened late in the quarter, we will collect on cash on that in the -- in Q4. So it should be an improvement quarter-over-quarter. But all of that drove the fact that inventory was less of a reduction than we had expected. And so not a significant source of cash.

但很顯然，由於這筆款項是在本季末支付的，我們將在第四季收到這筆款項的現金。因此，應該會比上一季有所改善。但所有這些因素導致庫存減少的幅度小於我們的預期。因此，它並不是重要的現金來源。

We will see that recovery. Obviously, the volumes are much higher in Q4 on both TiO2 and zircon, much more muted than what we expected, as John mentioned, but still an increase. So we will see some benefit from reduction in inventory. And then just from an AP perspective, it was a pretty decent use in AP as well as we did have restructuring charges of about $30 million in Q3 that will be lower in Q4.

我們將會看到復甦的跡象。顯然，第四季度二氧化鈦和鋯的銷量都高得多，正如約翰所提到的那樣，比我們預期的要低得多，但仍然有所增長。因此，庫存減少會帶來一些好處。從應付帳款的角度來看，應付帳款的使用情況也相當不錯，因為我們在第三季產生了約 3,000 萬美元的重組費用，而第四季這一數字將會降低。

So while driving lower purchases and lower CapEx drove higher AP, we will see that revert in Q4. So all that being said is we do expect Q4 free cash flow and working capital to be more significant than Q3, but roughly flat.

因此，雖然採購量下降和資本支出減少導致應付帳款增加，但我們將在第四季度看到這種情況發生逆轉。綜上所述，我們預計第四季自由現金流和營運資本將比第三季更顯著，但大致持平。

And my follow-up is you said you don't expect to breach your revolver maintenance covenant in Q4. Would you be able to provide either the EBITDA and/or debt headroom at the end of Q3 under that covenant?

我的後續問題是，您曾表示預計在第四季度不會違反循環信貸維護協議。您能否提供根據該契約在第三季末的 EBITDA 和/或債務空間？

Yes. So obviously, we -- as we mentioned, we do not expect a spring covenant on the US revolver. We are sitting with ample liquidity of $667 million. And so obviously, the test is you have to draw up 35% of our revolver, which is $350 million. So right now, we are undrawn on that revolver. And so we have significant cushion to get to that point, several hundred millions of dollars.

是的。所以很顯然，正如我們所提到的，我們並不指望美國左輪手槍會有春季契約。我們目前擁有6.67億美元的充足流動資金。所以很明顯，測試標準是你必須提取我們循環信貸額度的 35%，也就是 3.5 億美元。所以現在，我們還沒有拔出那把左輪手槍。因此，我們有足夠的緩衝資金來實現這一目標，高達數億美元。

And when we think about all the actions that we're taking to preserve cash and you couple that with some of the positive things we're talking about on the market, again, I made reference that the market will recover. We think we're on the front end of that, but we're taking actions that we feel are prudent at this particular stage to make sure that we have cash and that all those things that John just referenced around a covenant is not triggered ever. So this is a process that we're in place. It's been a tough downturn, but we're taking actions that we need to take to manage the business through the long term.

當我們考慮到我們為保留現金所採取的所有措施，再加上我們正在談論的市場上的一些積極因素，我再次提到，市場將會復甦。我們認為我們正處於這個階段的初期，但我們正在採取我們認為在這個特定階段是謹慎的行動，以確保我們有足夠的現金，並且約翰剛才提到的所有關於契約的事情都不會被觸發。這是我們正在實施的流程。雖然經濟低迷時期很艱難，但我們正在採取必要的措施來管理企業的長期發展。

Frank Mitsch, Fermium Research.

弗蘭克米奇，費米研究中心。

All right. Great. I was close to saying something I shouldn't. Okay. So I want to come back to the unanticipated headwinds on price for the fourth quarter on both TiO2 and zircon. So for TiO2, it sounds like the competitive actions that you're seeing from liquidation Venator's inventory is a large part of that.

好的。偉大的。我差點說出不該說的話。好的。所以我想再談談第四季二氧化鈦和鋯石價格面臨的意想不到的不利因素。所以對於 TiO2 來說，你看到的 Venator 清算庫存所引發的競爭行動，似乎是造成這種情況的主要原因。

And I was just curious as to -- and then also you would anticipate at some point in the future getting these duties put back on. I'm just curious from your perspective, assuming a normal coating season, when might we see instead of unanticipated headwinds on price, unanticipated tailwinds on price on TiO2. And then you also referenced on zircon, more aggressive competitive dynamics. Can you please flush that out a little bit for us?

我只是好奇——而且你也預計在未來的某個時候會重新承擔這些責任。我只是好奇，從你的角度來看，假設塗料市場正常，我們什麼時候會看到二氧化鈦價格出現意想不到的逆風而不是順風。然後你也提到了鋯石，以及更具侵略性的競爭動態。能再詳細解釋一下嗎？

Yes. Thanks, Frank. So on the TiO2 side of it, I'll be specific to the competitor that was liquidating inventory. We weren't responding to all of those liquidation events, right? By definition, they were selling at prices that weren't super attractive. All that being said, it created a lot of competitive environment, right? Others in the market were being -- competitive activity was going on in second quarter and the third quarter.

是的。謝謝你，弗蘭克。所以，就二氧化鈦而言，我將具體談談那家正在清倉甩賣庫存的競爭對手。我們並沒有對所有這些清算事件做出反應，對吧？從定義上講，它們的售價並不十分吸引人。綜上所述，這造成了很大的競爭環境，對吧？市場上的其他參與者－第二季和第三季競爭活動十分激烈。

We made reference in the third quarter that we were going to regain some of our share, and we were working towards that. But the liquidation of the inventory is just a catalyst for more competitive activity. I do believe that a lot of that inventory is going to work its way through the system before the end of the year.

我們在第三季提到要重新奪回一部分市場份額，我們也正在為此努力。但清倉甩賣只會引發更激烈的競爭。我相信，大部分庫存會在年底前消化掉。

We're already starting to have discussions with customers about what '26 looks like because they want to be aligned with customers or with suppliers that are going to live beyond '26. So with the demand patterns that we're seeing right now, and again, in '24 and in '25 in Q1 we saw these bump-ups and then kind of fizzled out in Q2 and Q3.

我們已經開始與客戶討論「2026 年」的發展前景，因為他們希望與那些將在「2026 年」之後繼續生存的客戶或供應商保持一致。所以，根據我們目前看到的需求模式，以及 2024 年和 2025 年第一季我們看到的需求成長，然後在第二季和第三季逐漸消失。

Q4 is a bit different. We haven't seen a swing up like this with all the things that are going on that I referenced around kind of the restructuring of the industry and the duties. We do think this is going to be a bit of a different recovery. And with demand patterns like this, if they continue, as I mentioned, our October sales are the largest sales month in the year equivalent to where we were in March, and we have a very good visibility into November and December, which would also indicate that a lot of the destocking has already happened, and we're getting back to normal demand patterns from our customers.

第四季的情況略有不同。鑑於我剛才提到的產業重組和職責調整等種種變化，我們還沒有看到像這樣的大幅上漲。我們認為這次的復甦之路會有些不同。如果這種需求模式持續下去，正如我之前提到的，我們10月份的銷售額將是全年最高的，相當於3月份的水平，而且我們對11月和12月的銷售情況也有非常清晰的了解，這也表明大部分庫存已經清空，我們的客戶需求正在恢復正常。

So the next natural thing would be pricing going in the other direction. And we're looking at that. It wouldn't be before the first quarter, but that's something that we're looking at.

因此，接下來很自然的事情就是價格朝著相反的方向發展。我們正在研究這個問題。不會早於第一季度，但這是我們正在考慮的事情。

As far as zircon goes, there was a lot of competitive activity. There's been a fair amount of heavy mineral concentrate being mined from China and other parts of Africa. Indonesia has now started to back off. So prices have gotten to the point where the Indonesian market, which is not huge, it's 60,000 to 70,000 tonnes of zircon per year, but we're starting to see them back off on that. There's other mining projects that have been backed off on, as I referenced earlier.

就鋯石而言，競爭非常激烈。中國和非洲其他地區開採了相當數量的重礦物精礦。印尼方面現在已經開始退縮了。因此，價格已經漲到了印尼市場（雖然規模不大，每年鋯石需求量為 6 萬至 7 萬噸）的水平，但我們開始看到他們在這方面有所回落。正如我之前提到的，還有其他一些採礦項目已經被擱置了。

So the zircon swing in Q3 to Q4, part of that had to do with the world shipment, but we're also seeing demand start to pick up. The last call, I made some reference around the rest of the world had kind of picked up, but China had not done much. We're starting to see, I would say, the front end of a pickup in China as well. So maybe a little bit too early to call what we might be seeing on pricing, but the demand pattern in fourth quarter is encouraging on zircon.

所以，鋯石價格在第三季到第四季的波動，一部分原因是全球出貨量的變化，但我們也看到需求開始回升。上次通話中，我提到世界其他地區的情況有所好轉，但中國方面並沒有太多進展。我想說，我們也開始在中國看到皮卡車的前臉設計了。所以現在預測價格走勢可能還為時過早，但第四季鋯石的需求模式令人鼓舞。

Edward Brucker, Barclays.

愛德華·布魯克，巴克萊銀行。

I think you mentioned it as you're going through the cash flow implications of the idling of the facilities. But are you able to provide the actual cash cost of the idling of the facilities and furnaces and then the closure of the mine that you expect?

我想你在分析設施閒置對現金流的影響時有提到這一點。但是，您能否提供您預計的停工停產設施和熔爐以及礦場關閉的實際現金成本？

Well, first off, we're not closing a mine. We're idling the West mine. So we're just bringing it down as we brought one furnace down at Namakwa, that furnace supplies a lot of the slag that we consume. So as we're not producing as much TiO2, we've idled the furnace. We're idling the mine. We'll bring that mine back up when the market recovers. And our cash generation, our benefit from that idling in 2026 will largely depend on how long we bring that down, but there will be a cash positive input to that. In 2025 fourth quarter, the collective impact from an EBITDA perspective on bringing those assets down is $11 million.

首先，我們並沒有關閉礦場。我們正在關閉西礦。所以，我們就像在納馬誇拆除一座熔爐一樣，把它拆除了，那座熔爐供應了我們消耗的大量爐渣。由於我們生產的二氧化鈦數量減少，我們已經讓爐子停產了。我們正在停產礦井。等市場復甦後，我們會重新啟動那個礦場。而我們在 2026 年從閒置資產中獲得的現金流和收益，很大程度上取決於我們能將閒置資產減少多久，但肯定會有正現金投入。到 2025 年第四季度，從 EBITDA 的角度來看，減少這些資產的綜合影響為 1,100 萬美元。

I think that's really important. So when you think about take Fuzhou off the table right now, we're running just north of 80% capacity utilization. And if you recall, when we were in the last downturn running our assets at low rates, these fixed cost absorption numbers were costing us $25 million to $30 million a quarter, and that did not include idling a mine.

我認為這非常重要。所以，如果現在把福州排除在外，我們的產能利用率剛好超過 80%。如果你還記得的話，上次經濟低迷時期，我們以低利率運營資產時，這些固定成本吸收數字每季度要花費我們 2500 萬至 3000 萬美元，這還不包括礦山閒置造成的損失。

So this -- I want to translate that back to -- we talk about this cost improvement program all the time. It's hard to see in the numbers. But when you think about that LCM or that fixed cost absorption hit we're taking in the quarter at only being $11 million has a lot to do with what we're seeing in the cost improvement program because we're running at similar rates. We brought a mine down, but our costs have not gone down or have not been impacted as much. So John, do you want to?

所以——我想把它翻譯成——我們一直在談論這個成本改進計劃。從數字上很難看出這一點。但當你考慮到本季我們只承受了 1,100 萬美元的成本分攤損失或固定成本吸收損失時，這與我們在成本改善計畫中看到的情況有很大關係，因為我們的運行速度與成本分攤損失類似。我們關閉了一個礦井，但我們的成本並沒有降低，也沒有受到太大影響。約翰，你願意嗎？

Yes. No, I think just to be clear, though, it's $11 million impact, as John mentioned, in Q4, but that will be offset from a cash perspective by a positive $25 million to $30 million, as we mentioned. So net Q4 will be a positive from a free cash flow basis. And it was important to note that, obviously, we do spend a lot of time. We've said before, we have a 30-year mine plan, but equally as important is really the handoff we have between mines.

是的。不，不過為了說清楚，正如約翰所提到的，第四季度的影響是 1100 萬美元，但正如我們所提到的，從現金角度來看，這將被 2500 萬至 3000 萬美元的正收益所抵消。因此，從自由現金流的角度來看，第四季淨利潤將為正值。值得注意的是，顯然，我們確實花費了大量時間。我們之前說過，我們有一個 30 年的礦業計劃，但同樣重要的是我們在各個礦山之間進行的交接。

And so the reason why we ran the West mine for longer -- a little bit longer and didn't execute on that earlier in the year, it's really facilitated by the fact that our new East OFS mine is coming online. And so that's why you kind of see that bridge be much more cost effective than you would have had you just had a sharp cutoff of that mine.

因此，我們之所以讓西礦運作更長時間——比往年早些時候更長時間，而沒有執行該計劃，實際上是因為我們新的東OFS礦場即將投產。所以這就是為什麼你會發現，建造這座橋比直接切斷礦井要划算得多。

Got it. And just my next question, can you dive a little further into why you feel so confident that India will reinstate those duties? And then if they don't, are there any contingency plans for the region?

知道了。我的下一個問題是，您能否進一步解釋一下，為什麼您如此確信印度會恢復這些關稅？如果他們不這樣做，該地區是否有任何緊急應變計畫？

Well, I'll start off with the last question. India is the second largest country that we sell into. We have currently a 10% duty advantage because we're supplying India out of Australia and there's a free trade agreement between Australia and India. So it's still upside for us. Even with India supplying -- or the Chinese -- at the peak they were buying, that's a 450,000 ton per year market. 300,000 tons per year were being supplied by China.

那我就先回答最後一個問題吧。印度是我們第二大銷售市場。目前我們有 10% 的關稅優勢，因為我們從澳洲向印度供貨，而澳洲和印度之間有自由貿易協定。所以這對我們來說仍然是利好消息。即使印度或中國在採購高峰期都參與供應，那也只是每年45萬噸的市場。其中，中國每年供應30萬噸。

We were still growing in that market. It's still our second largest market. So the contingency would be it's going to be slower growth, but we will continue to grow. We have -- again, we're not a producer in that region, but we've been actively engaged in discussions with the government. So we have a good window into what's going on at the DGTR. We do believe those -- we believe there'll be an answer sometime towards the end of the year, and it's our belief at this particular stage that that's going to be a positive one.

我們在那個市場仍處於成長階段。它仍然是我們的第二大市場。因此，最糟的情況是成長速度會放緩，但我們仍將繼續成長。我們已經——再次聲明，我們不是該地區的生產商，但我們一直積極與政府進行討論。因此，我們對DGTR正在發生的事情有了很好的了解。我們確實相信——我們相信在今年年底前會有結果，而且我們目前認為結果會是正面的。

I can't provide any more color other than that, but we're pretty confident in it. And in the absence of it, we still have a growth model.

除此之外，我無法提供更多細節，但我們對此相當有信心。即使沒有它，我們仍然有成長模式。

Hassan Ahmed, Alembic Global.

Hassan Ahmed，Alembic Global。

A question around -- in the press release, you guys mentioned 1.1 million tons of TiO2 capacity being shuttered since 2023. So a specific question around anti-involution and China in particular. I mean, if my understanding is correct, China has probably around 50 TiO2 facilities. My understanding is 20 of those are quite subscale, 50,000 tonnes or less and quite uneconomic.

關於新聞稿中提到的問題——自 2023 年以來，你們關閉了 110 萬噸 TiO2 產能。所以，這是一個關於反內捲化，特別是關於中國的具體問題。我的意思是，如果我的理解沒錯，中國大概有50個二氧化鈦生產設施。據我了解，其中 20 個項目規模都很小，5 萬噸或更少，經濟效益很差。

So if I were to bundle all of those 20 subscale facilities up, I'd say that's roughly around 700,000 tonnes of capacity. So how are you thinking about that capacity? Is that vulnerable? Are you guys hearing something about closures around that? And generally, what are you guys hearing about anti-involution?

所以，如果我把這 20 個小型工廠加起來，我認為產能大約在 70 萬噸左右。那麼，您對這個產能有什麼看法呢？這是否有安全隱憂？你們有沒有聽說那附近有停工的消息？總的來說，你們都聽到了哪些關於反內捲化方面的消息？

Yes. Thanks, Hassan. It's a great question. And just to be clear, that 11 -- 1.1 million tons of capacity is from 2023 to the current date. And again, our belief that the majority of that is off-line. There were some Chinese plants included in that. We're not including our -- idling of our plant. But we have heard that there are other plants that are looking at being idled. And the real question is, do they go off permanently or do they bring them down for short periods of time? But I would expect that there's going to be some kind of consolidation in that capacity.

是的。謝謝你，哈桑。這是一個很好的問題。需要明確的是，這 1,100 萬至 110 萬噸的產能是指從 2023 年至今的產能。我們再次認為，其中大部分是線下進行的。其中包含一些中國植物。我們不把工廠閒置的時間算在內。但我們聽說還有其他一些工廠也面臨停產的風險。真正的問題是，它們是永久關閉還是只是短暫關閉？但我預期這方面會出現某種程度的整合。

Look, we're going to have to continue to compete with the likes of (inaudible) on the long term. That's why these duties, albeit not -- maybe they're not permanent. Duties typically last five years with a five-year sunset that typically follows that. So that's why all of our focus has to be on how we become more cost efficient and the traction that we're getting around costs so that we have a long-term sustainable plan to be competitive no matter where we're selling the product.

你看，從長遠來看，我們必須繼續與像（聽不清楚）這樣的公司競爭。所以這些職責，雖然可能不是——也許它們不是永久性的。職務期限通常為五年，期滿後通常會有五年的終止期。所以，這就是為什麼我們必須把所有精力放在如何提高成本效益以及我們在成本方面取得的進展上，以便我們能夠制定一個長期可持續的計劃，無論我們在哪裡銷售產品，都能保持競爭力。

But I do believe -- look, our China plant is -- it's our lowest cost plant in our entire system. But the market in China is the lowest price market, and it's more competitive today because that 800,000 tons that historically was exported outside into other regions of the market, you've got fewer markets for that material to move into. All the other areas that are nonduty affected are largely saturated with Chinese material anyway.

但我相信——你看，我們在中國工廠——它是我們整個系統中成本最低的工廠。但中國市場是價格最低的市場，如今競爭更加激烈，因為過去出口到其他地區的80萬噸產品，現在可供其流通的市場減少了。其他不受關稅影響的地區，無論如何都已經充斥著大量中國產品。

So I would agree with you. It will be a matter of time, and it's one of those things where you would have thought it would have happened earlier. I think a lot of those are state-owned or SOEs where they're getting subsidies. We don't get subsidies in our Chinese facility. So again, we've idled that for the right reasons, and we'll determine how long that's down based on the current market condition. But I would agree with you that, that's not -- what you just described is not fully baked into the 1,100 tons that's already been brought offline.

所以我同意你的看法。這只是時間問題，而且是那種你會覺得它應該更早發生的事情之一。我認為其中很多都是國有企業或國有股份公司，它們都獲得了補貼。我們在中國的工廠沒有獲得補貼。所以，我們再次出於正當理由暫停了該項目，我們將根據當前的市場狀況來決定暫停多久。但我同意你的看法，你剛才描述的情況並沒有完全融入到已經停產的 1100 噸產能。

And in a down cycle that's lasted now 3.5 years, you've never seen -- I've never seen in my almost 40 years, anything like that amount of capacity reduction. Maybe 25% of that historically is what you'd see in a downturn. And normally, what happens as the market goes down and right before people start closing plants, there's a recovery. And this one has been longer than any other one, and every competitor has idled or closed a plant.

在持續了 3.5 年的下行週期中，你從未見過——在我近 40 年的從業經歷中，我從未見過如此大規模的產能削減。從歷史上看，經濟衰退時期可能會出現這種情況，大概佔其中的 25%。通常情況下，當市場下跌，人們開始關閉工廠之前，就會出現復甦的跡象。而這次的危機持續時間比以往任何一次都長，每個競爭對手都已停產或關閉了一家工廠。

Very helpful, John. And as a follow-up, I wanted to revisit the India antidumping side of things. I know things are still sort of transient and the like. But my understanding is that the sort of overturning by the courts of the antidumping duties actually didn't have much to do with the cause agents of why those antidumping duties were levied in the first place, but it was far more procedural.

約翰，你幫了我大忙。作為後續，我想重新探討印度的反傾銷問題。我知道現在很多事情都還處於不穩定狀態。但我的理解是，法院推翻反傾銷稅實際上與當初徵收這些反傾銷稅的原因關係不大，而更多的是程序問題。

I mean, again, my understanding is that the Indian Paints Association came out and said, hey, look, certain details were not shared with us, and they were shared with other parties. So those need to be -- so it was far more procedural than really why they were imposed in the first place. Is that what actually gives you confidence that they may be levied again?

我的意思是，據我了解，印度油漆協會出面表示，嘿，聽著，某些細節沒有與我們分享，而是分享給了其他方。所以這些規定需要──所以這更多的是程序問題，而不是當初實施這些規定的真正原因。這就是你確信這些稅款可能會再次徵收的原因嗎？

That's exactly right. I couldn't restate it any more clearly than you just did. It was a procedural error. We believe that the data that they didn't get has been submitted. The procedural correction will be done and the duties will go back into place. So I can't state what you stated any more clearly, the right answer.

完全正確。我無法用比你剛才更清晰的方式重新表達了。這是程式上的錯誤。我們相信他們未獲得的數據已經提交了。程序上的修正將會完成，各項職責也將恢復原狀。所以，我無法更清楚地表達你所說的內容，那就是正確答案。

Thank you. So there are no further questions today. So I'll now hand the call back over to John Romano for closing remarks. Thank you, John.

謝謝。今天沒有其他問題了。現在我將把電話交還給約翰·羅馬諾，請他作總結發言。謝謝你，約翰。

Thank you very much, and we appreciate you joining the call. Look, I do believe that we are -- clearly, it's been a challenging 3.5 years, but we're pretty optimistic on the things that we're doing around self-help -- the duties -- a lot of that work was hard work that we initiated. A lot of the work that we're doing on the cost improvement program. I gave you a lot of details on that. It's not just things we're talking about. It's things that our operational teams are weaving into the work that we do every single day, just like safety is a priority, cost improvement and maintaining those cost improvements and being competitive long term is something that we will continue to do for the long term.

非常感謝，我們感謝您參加此通話。你看，我確實相信我們正在——顯然，過去的三年半充滿挑戰，但我們對我們正在做的自助工作——職責——非常樂觀——其中很多工作都是我們發起的艱苦工作。我們正在進行許多成本改進計劃方面的工作。我已向你詳細說明了這一點。我們談論的不僅僅是事情。這些都是我們營運團隊每天在工作中不斷融入的要素，就像安全是重中之重一樣，降低成本、保持成本優勢以及長期保持競爭力是我們將繼續長期努力的方向。

And our team has done an outstanding job of implementing those programs and lifting and shifting them from one site to the other. So I'm feeling really good, and that's largely on the back of all the work that our team has done to get us to where we are today. So we look forward to updating you again throughout the quarter and next quarter. So thank you very much.

我們的團隊在實施這些項目以及將它們從一個地點遷移到另一個地點方面做得非常出色。所以我感覺非常好，這很大程度上要歸功於我們團隊為使我們取得今天的成就所付出的所有努力。因此，我們期待在本季和下個季度繼續向您報告最新情況。非常感謝。

This concludes today's call. Thank you for joining, and have a great day.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與，祝您有美好的一天。