Trinity Industries Inc (TRN) 2012 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good day, everyone. Before we get started, let me remind you that today's conference call contains forward-looking statements as defined by the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 and includes statements as to estimates, expectations, intentions and predictions of future financial performance. Statements that are not historical facts are forward looking. Participants are directed to Trinity's Form 10-K and other SEC filings for a description of certain -- of the business issues and risks, a change in any of which could cause actual results or outcomes to differ materially from those expressed in the forward-looking statements.

At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. Later, you will have the opportunity to ask questions during the question-and-answer session. (OPERATOR INSTRUCTIONS) Please note this call is being recorded.

It is now my pleasure to turn the conference over to Gail Peck. Please go ahead.

Thank you, Toya. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Trinity Industries first quarter 2012 results conference call. I am Gail Peck, Vice President and Treasurer of Trinity. Thank you for joining us today.

Following the introduction, you will hear from Tim Wallace, our Chairman, Chief Executive Officer and President. After Tim, our business group leaders will provide overviews of the businesses within their respective groups. Our speakers are Steve Menzies, Senior Vice President and Group President of the Rail and Railcar Leasing Groups; and Antonio Carrillo, Senior Vice President and Group President of the Energy Equipment Group; and Bill McWhirter, Senior Vice President and Group President of the Construction Products and Inland Barge Groups. Following their comments, James Perry, our Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer will provide the financial summary and guidance. We will then move to the Q&A session. Mary Henderson, our Vice President and Chief Accounting Officer is also in the room with us today.

I will now turn the call over to Tim Wallace for his comments.

Thank you, Gail, and good morning, everyone. We're off to a good start in 2012. The momentum in our railcar and barge business has generated operating leverage that enhanced our financial performance during the first quarter. From an overall Company perspective, I'm pleased with the way our businesses are leveraging off our multi-industry manufacturing platform to pursue growth opportunities in response to market demand. Our railcar, barge and containers businesses continue to benefit from the shale oil and gas exploration and production activities that are well positioned to capitalize as opportunities surface in the future.

Demand for railcars in North America remain consistent during the first quarter. Steve will provide additional information on the railcar market during his comments.

Our railcar leasing business continues to perform well by obtaining higher lease rates and securing longer-term leases. This trend continues to build a solid base of leasing revenues and profit.

Our inland barge business obtained a good mix of orders in the first quarter that extended production into 2013. Demand was driven by several factors, including a need to transport oil associated with shale exploration and production.

Our energy equipment group reported a loss during the first quarter. The results were due to lingering issues associated with challenges in our wind tower manufacturing business. The wind energy as a whole is continuing to work through a number of fundamental issues that are affecting demand for wind towers. We continue to dedicate management time and Company resources to enhancing our manufacturing platform for wind towers, so that it can respond effectively to changes in customer demand. While the financial performance reflects a lack of improvement thus far, I believe we are making important strides to improve in this area. Antonio will provide more additional information during his remarks.

Our construction products businesses are building momentum as they enter the early part of the construction season. Our highway products businesses continue to experience inconsistency in demand for products due to the lack of a long-term federal highway funding. We expect levels of uncertainty associated with highway funding will persist until our political leaders pass a multiyear transportation bill.

Overall, our first quarter performance reflects the strength of our multi-industry platform, the benefits provided by our market leadership positions and our commitment to operational excellence and the talents and hard work of our people. The trend lines in most of our businesses indicate another solid year of growth for the Company.

I will now turn it over to Steve Menzies for his comments.

Thank you, Tim. Good morning. First quarter operating results for the rail group and leasing group reflect improved operating leverage amidst steady railcar demand. Our rail group posted an operating profit of $40.1 million during the first quarter of 2012, a 16% increase compared to the fourth quarter of 2011, and a 330% increase compared to the first quarter of 2011.

The dollar value of our railcar order backlog remained virtually unchanged at the end of the first quarter, despite a slight decline in total units. Our lease group posted a 22% increase in operating profit year over year when compared to the first quarter of 2011, due principally to higher lease renewal rates and profit from lease portfolio sales. Lease rates and renewal trends remained favorable.

Industry demand for new railcars continued at a steady pace during the first quarter. Industry orders for new railcars totaled approximately 12,500 and were driven primarily by orders for railcars needed to transport crude oil from shale and tar sands fields and orders for general service freight cars by several Class I railroads, lessors and TTX. In the long run, we believe demand for rail transportation to support oil and gas exploration and production activities will continue to generate additional new railcar orders.

Near term, the current price and abundant supply levels of natural gas has negatively impacted drilling, thus reducing demand for small covered hoppers used to transport frac sand and profits. At current oil price levels, we expect oil drilling and the demand for railcars to transport crude oil will remain steady. The energy sector overall is an exciting growth opportunity for our businesses, but we are monitoring industry developments and their downstream impacts closely.

The abundance of low-price natural gas is benefiting North American chemical producers. Several major chemical companies have announced plans to build new plants or significantly expand existing facilities in North America. Fertilizer producers are benefiting from low natural gas prices and record spring crop plantings. Oil and gas drilling is also impacting chemical usage. As a result, domestic chemical production is growing, driving orders for new railcars to transport chemical products. Low natural gas prices have, however, depressed demand for coal cars as utilities switch to natural gas for power generation. This is only partially offset by slightly improving coal exports. As a result, we have seen an increase in the idle North American fleet principally related to an increase in coal cars placed in storage.

Orders for flat cars for auto racks were also placed during the quarter, as automobile production is projected to rise, and the existing auto rack fleet is fully deployed. Replacement orders for boxcars are in part related to increased auto parts shipments. Orders for rail cars to transport steel are also driven by automobile production increases.

During the first quarter, Trinity Rail received orders for approximately 3,255 new railcars, including auto racks. Our first quarter orders were primarily for tank and covered hopper railcars from industrial shippers and general service freight cars and auto racks from railroads. Trinity Rails railcar and backlog was 27,245 railcars at the end of the first quarter, down 6% from the end of the fourth quarter of 2011. The dollar value of the backlog remained stable during the quarter at approximately $2.6 billion.

First quarter orders included higher-value railcars and benefited from increasing prices on certain railcars in high demand. Approximately 21% of the units in our order backlog are for customers of our leasing business. We were successful securing orders during the first quarter that extend our current production lines for some railcar types into the second half of 2013. We continue to focus on specific customer orders that optimize production at our facilities currently in operation, minimize line changeovers and reflect favorable pricing levels. Our first quarter orders should position us to achieve further operating leverage improvement.

We delivered approximately 5,010 railcars during the first quarter, compared to the approximately 2,240 railcars we delivered in the first quarter of 2011, then 5,001 railcars in the fourth quarter of 2011. The steep slope of our production ramp-up during the last four quarters has been challenging. During the first quarter of 2012, we experienced solid improvement in our operating leverage as our labor force is now more experienced and we have stabilized our railcar production rate. This is evidenced by the increase in our margin during the first quarter while operating at consistent production levels.

For the year 2012, we are projecting delivery of approximately 19,000 to 20,000 new railcars. As a point of comparison, we delivered 14,065 railcars in 2011 and 4,750 railcars in 2010. We remain flexible in our 2012 and 2013 production plans, and the Company has the ability to reallocate production capacity from other product lines as sustainable demand opportunities warrant. While we have the ability to increase railcar production and major component suppliers have now ramped up, the industry may face further constraints from availability of some specialty steel and components required for certain railcars.

We added approximately 1,554 new railcars to our wholly owned lease fleet portfolio during the first quarter, bringing our total lease fleet portfolio, including trip, to approximately 70,000 railcars. Lease renewal trends are favorable. A high percentage of our lessees are renewing their contracts, which lowers re-marketing expenses and minimizes out-of-service time for the fleet. This has had a positive impact on leasing operating margins. However, the timing of regulatory testing and maintenance can be uneven and sometimes difficult to project. Renewal lease rates are also showing steady increases. These rates on new railcars are attractive investment levels. We expect this trend to continue while existing railcars are in tight supply, the new railcar production backlogs remain extended.

We continue to see an active secondary market for the sale of leased railcars from our portfolio. During the first quarter of 2012, we sold another group of lease railcars from our portfolio. We expect additional lease portfolio sales during the next few quarters, assuming conditions continue to support an active secondary market.

In summary, railcar market conditions remain favorable, although driven in large part by a demand from oil and gas exploration and production activities, and increasing automotive production. We continue to see steady order inquiries. We are closely monitoring development in these industries to better understand factors that may influence future demand for railcars. During the first quarter we saw meaningful improvements in our operating leverage.

As we continue through 2012, our operations team will continue to focus on improving efficiencies while keeping production levels stable for the next few quarters. We expect to see the benefits of a strong lease pricing environment and an active secondary market supporting lease portfolio sales.

I'll now turn it over to Antonio.

Thank you, Steve, and good morning, everyone. The energy equipment group financial results continue to reflect the challenges faced by our wind tower manufacturing business. The wind energy industry as a whole has changed dramatically during the past few years. Today, wind towers are rapidly evolving as our customers seek more efficient designs that will better compete with other energy sources.

Demand for additional wind energy is at a low point. As a result, domestic wind tower manufacturing capacity exceeds demands. During the past year, our performance goes short of my expectations as our facilities transition between [80 and 100] (inaudible). At this point, I believe the majority of our transition issues are behind us. However, there are still some fundamental market-related challenges ahead. Federal wind energy production incentives expire at the end of 2012. This is creating uncertainty and has brought orders for wind towers to low levels. Going forward, our production flexibility is key. Wind tower manufacturers must be able to produce a wide variety of tower designs and quickly ship facilities from one design to another and from one customer to another.

Trinity's multi-industry platform provides additional flexibility. It allows us to ship some wind tower manufacturing capacity to other creative products in greater demand. As an example of the flexibility we have in our system, one of our wind tower facilities made a quick changeover during the first quarter to manufacturing wind towers to tank containers for the oil and gas industry. It has since gone back to making wind towers for a different customer. These rapid plan conversions speak of the progress we're making in adapting to the challenges of the wind energy environment.

During the years when the demand for wind towers was high, we entered into long-term contracts that continue to provide a foundation of work. However, as long as wind tower demand is low, we will remain flexible to accommodate our customer's production volumes and product mix.

In the current operating environment, which has shorter production runs and more product conversions, it would be difficult to obtain operating leverage. We are highly focused on returning the energy segment to profitability. I am pleased with the continued growth of the other businesses within the energy equipment group. They have done a great job in taking advantage of opportunities for new products and expanding production capacity in response to market demand.

I will now turn it over to Bill for his comments.

Thank you, Antonio, and good morning, everyone. Our construction products group continued to perform well during the first quarter, producing an operating profit of $10.8 million compared to $8.3 million during the same quarter a year ago. This 30% improvement was driven by our efforts during the past two years to reposition the mix of product lines within this segment. I continue to see more opportunities to grow and reshape the segment in the coming year.

From a headwind perspective, we are seeing some slowdown in demand for highway products related to the lack of a multiyear federal highway bill. I am confident that we are positioned to perform well in the current market climate. Should Congress approve a multiyear federal highway bill, I believe we will be in a strong position to respond to increased demand.

Moving to our inland barge group, for the first quarter, our barge business had sales of $169 million and reported operating profit of $30 million. $3.4 million of this operating profit was a one-time gain related to the sale of lease barges to third parties. The net result was $26.6 million in operating profit, as compared to $21.7 million in the same quarter of 2011. Barge movement of petroleum products, chemicals and export coal continues to be strong.

During the quarter, our sales team did a great job bringing in $187 million in new orders. These new orders reflect a very nice mix of dry and liquid barges. At quarter-end, our barge backlog reached $512 million. Overall, I continue to be pleased with the performance of both our barge and construction products group.

At this time I'll turn the presentation over to James.

Thank you, Bill, and good morning, everyone. My comments relate primarily to the first quarter of 2012. Our Form 10-Q will be filed later today. For the first quarter of 2012, Trinity reported earnings of $0.66 per common diluted share, 120% improvement over last year's first quarter earnings of $0.30 per common diluted share.

Revenues for the first quarter of 2012 increased 46% year over year to $925 million as a result of increased railcar and barge shipments, continued growth in our railcar leasing operations and strategic acquisitions made last year by our highway products businesses. Trinity's operating profit increased 43% during the first quarter to $122 million and our EBITDA increased 31% to $175 million compared to the first quarter of last year. The reconciliation of EBITDA was provided in our press release yesterday.

The rail group recorded a 113% increase in revenues in the first quarter of 2012 compared to the same quarter last year as railcar deliveries more than doubled to 5,010 railcars during the quarter. Operating profit for the group increased to $40 million during the first quarter compared to $9 million a year ago. The increase in revenue and profits for the quarter reflects the strength in the recovery of railcar demand and Trinity Rail's successful ramp-up of current production capacity to meet demand and achieve operating leverage.

During the first quarter, the leasing group reported growth of 6% in its leasing and management services revenues, compared to the first quarter of 2011. Total operating profit for the leasing group grew to $67 million, including $7 million of gains from railcar sales from the lease fleet, compared to operating profit of $55 million during the first quarter of last year, including $1 million of gains from railcar sales from the fleet.

The lease fleet continues to experience improved utilization and higher rental rates compared to last year. In addition, due to the size and strength of the lease fleet, this group continues to successful pursue opportunities to sell railcars from the lease fleet in the secondary market that align with its portfolio objectives, which include maximizing returns, diversifying the lease fleet and managing investment levels.

Our inland barge group had another positive quarter in terms of operating performance. Revenues were 23% higher in the first quarter, compared to the same quarter last year. The group's operating profit was $30 million compared to $22 million in the same quarter last year. Operating profit for the first quarter of 2012 included a $3.4 million net gain from the sale of 15 barges included in property, plant and equipment that were previously leased to third-party customers. There are only two barges remaining in the barge lease fleet at this time. Excluding the gain from the sale of barges in the first quarter, the barge group delivered an operating margin of 15.7%.

Energy equipment group incurred an operating loss of approximately $4 million during the first quarter on revenues of $125 million. This compares to an operating profit of $11 million on revenues of $119 million last year. Revenues for the first quarter of this year increased compared to the same period last year as a result of higher shipments of tank containers, tank heads and utility structures, partially offset by lower volumes of wind towers. The operating loss resulted from transition issues arising from changes in product mix in our wind towers business as well as competitive pricing on wind towers.

The construction products group continued to perform well in a challenging construction environment. Generating first quarter revenues, they grew about 16% over the same quarter last year. Operating profit grew from $8 million in the first quarter of 2011 to $11 million in the first quarter this year. This segment's performance continues to reflect the positive impacts of strategic portfolio realignments resulting from the acquisitions in the highway products space and asset repositioning to align with demand for construction materials produced for our concrete and aggregates business.

In summary, this year's first quarter results from our core operations reflect a significant improvement over the same period last year. A quarter end, our balance of unrestricted cash totaled $305 million. When this cash is combined with the available capacity under our corporate revolver in Trinity's leasing warehouse facility, we had approximately $850 million of available liquidity at the end of the quarter, which positioned us to capitalize on business opportunities as they arise.

I will now discuss our forward-looking guidance. For the second quarter of 2012, we expect earnings per common diluted share for the Company to be between $0.70 and $0.75. For the full year, we expect earnings for common diluted share of between $2.55 and $2.70. We anticipate that the rail group will report revenues of between $500 million and $525 million during the second quarter, with an operating margin of between 9% and 11%.

We expect railcar manufacturing to deliver railcars to our leasing company that will result in an elimination of between $85 million and $100 million in consolidated revenues and between $0.05 and $0.07 of earnings per share in the second quarter. This compares to an elimination of $123 million in consolidated revenues and $0.08 of earnings per share in the first quarter. For the full year, we expect our net leasing capital expenditures to be between $300 million and $350 million.

Included in our guidance for the second quarter, it's approximately $0.03 to $0.04 per share of gains from the sale of railcars from our lease fleet. Our annual guidance includes approximately $0.12 to $0.14 per share from lease fleet sales gains. The level of railcar sale activity from the sale portfolio is difficult to accurately project given the opportunistic nature of the transactions in the secondary market. The secondary market remains receptive to sales in the fleet, so we continue to seek opportunities to conduct such transactions.

Inland barge revenues are expected to be in between $160 million and $170 million in the second quarter, with an operating margin in the range of 15% to 17%. Our wind towers business continues to be focused on enhancing its ability to transition efficiently between wind tower models when customer product needs change. This business is making progress in these areas, and we are focused on improving the results in this segment. However, we remain unable to provide detailed financial guidance until we have more clarity about the exact timing of these business developments.

We will continue to evaluate market conditions as we deploy capital to promote the growth of our businesses. Our current plan calls for an investment of $100 million to $125 million of capital expenditures in our manufacturing businesses during 2012. As a multi-industry Company, we have a lot of moving variables in our business and in the external environment. Our results for the second quarter and full-year earnings for 2012 will depend on a number of factors, including the orders we received that will fill in the remaining open slots in our rail and barge backlogs, the operating leverage we can achieve in our rail and barge businesses as we operate at this elevated level of production, our ability to conduct attractive sales from our railcar lease fleet in the secondary market and certainty around a long-term highway bill, weather conditions for our construction businesses and continued challenges in our wind towers business.

In addition, as we reported, we benefited from a lower effective tax rate of 32.9% in the first quarter due to the settlement of certain tax audits. For the remaining three quarters of 2012, we expect our tax rate to be at a more normalized level of between 37% and 38%. Overall, we expect to have a solid 2012 with substantial growth over 2011's results as reflected in our guidance.

Our operator will now prepare us for the question-and-answer session.

(OPERATOR INSTRUCTIONS) We'll go first to the site of Sal Vitale with Sterne, Agee. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Good morning, all. Unfortunately I'm probably having some phone issues, so you were in and out, so I missed a few of the comments that you made. So I apologize if I'm making you repeat them. But the first question is on the lease side, the guidance you gave, was that $0.12 to $0.14 per share of lease fleet sale gains for the year?

For the year, that's correct, Sal. This is James. Yes.

Okay. And that's up from, if I remember right, $0.10 to $0.12.

That's right. Yes, the performance we saw in the second quarter as well as expectations for the rest of the year led us to increase that slightly.

Okay. And then the other question is on the orders that you received in the quarter, did you mention what the breakdown was there between, I guess, tank cars I think you mentioned was one of the areas that had continued strength, and was it auto production? Was it auto rack cars?

Yes, Steve. Sal, this is Steve. We don't break it down specifically, but our orders were primarily for tank and covered hopper cars to industrial shippers, and then some general service freight cars and auto racks from Class I railroads.

Okay. And of those -- the covered hoppers to industrial shippers, I assume those are not the small cube-covered hoppers for frac sand, correct?

Some of those were small cube-covered hopper cars, but I think if your question is have we seen a decline in orders for those cars serving the frac sand and profits market, then the answer is yes.

Okay. How long is it -- that weakness has been going -- I guess that step-down in orders for cars serving that market, that's pretty much started -- was it a couple of months ago now, would you say?

Again, this is Steve, Sal. We began to see the decline in that market probably late fourth quarter, early first quarter. We believe that market is taking a breather given the projections we see long term for gas drilling. We -- at least this time, start to project a recovery in that market perhaps sometime during 2013.

Okay, that's helpful. And then just one other question on the boxcar market. Are you seeing any increase in inquiry in that market?

Generally not. There was a large order of boxcars during the first quarter from TTX that was principally replacement, in part driven by demand for auto parts shipments, but we've not seen any consistent orders for boxcars in that market.

Okay. And then just the last question, can you comment on -- if I just look at total rail group revenue and divide it by deliveries, understanding that there's the rail components part, which I assume you'll provide in the 10-Q later today, but it seems that the ASP was roughly I think $120,000 or so, which is a nice sequential increase. How should we think about how much of that was just a mix of higher-priced cars versus peer pricing?

Again, Steve, Sal. No, it's difficult to generalize about pricing because our different product markets are behaving differently. Clearly, that improvement that you're seeing was in part from higher-valued cars, as we would refer to it, we had -- we sold some Cadillacs during the quarter instead of some Chevrolets, but we also received increasing pricing on cars that are in very high demand.

Right. And those Cadillacs were -- well, tank cars, I assume those are higher-priced cars, right? That's probably --

That's where we're seeing rising prices, and your higher-priced cars would probably be the auto racks that you asked about earlier.

Auto racks, okay. Thank you very much.

We'll move next to the site of Art Hatfield with Raymond James. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Hi there. Good morning. This is [Alex Scott] in for Art. A couple of questions. One on the barge lease fleet. Could you give a little color on the decision to sell the 15 and what your plans are for the remaining 2?

Yes, Art, or Alex. The 15 really resulted in people having options to buy at certain periods of time, and then several of the barges just coming off lease, and another third party being interested. So it was really just a moment in time triggered contractually. For the remaining two, we don't have any current intent to sell, but that's not to say that given the right set of economics that we wouldn't sell those.

Okay. Thanks. And the lastly on the trip fleet, I noticed that it actually grew by about 120 cars. Can you talk about what's going on there and why the growth in the fleet?

Sure, Alex, this is James. On the trip fleet we had in the last couple of quarters some sales of cars from the trip fleet with our general secondary market transactions we've had along with our wholly owned lease fleet. Part of trip with its debt and its requirement is those cars are replaced to keep that fleet at a relatively stable level. So trip replaced those cars during the first quarter for cars that had sold during the fourth quarter. So if you go back a couple quarters, it remained stable, but you saw an increase from Q4 to Q1.

Okay, I see. Well, thank you for that, and that does it for me at this time. Thank you.

We'll move next to the site of Allison Poliniak with Wells Fargo.

Hi, good morning. Steve, I think you alluded to this with somebody else's question, Sal's question maybe, but the same value for the backlog, is that more driven by mix in the backlog right now, or is it maybe to a lesser extent placing, or is it -- am I reversing it somehow?

Allison, you're right. It is mixed, but we are also seeing increasing prices on cars that have been stable in our backlog as well. And I should also point out that we've also seen significant price increases in steel and steel components that's driving railcar prices too.

Okay. And I guess in line with that, it's particularly the mix issue, any upcoming significant line changes over the next two quarters that we should be aware of?

None that you should be aware of, nothing significant.

Okay, great. Thank you.

We'll move next to the site of Tom Albrecht with BB&T Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

Hey, good morning, everyone. I've got a couple of questions here. First on the guidance, I'm not trying to nitpick, but you know the world we live in right now. So if I take kind of the upper end of what you could do in the first half, $0.66 plus $0.75, it's $1.41, and I kind of take -- it doesn't matter whether they take the low end or the high end or your annual guidance, it clearly implies a little less earnings in the second half of the year. And so my question is, is this because of the uncertainty of energy and the fact that you probably see losses for at least another quarter or two, or is it because you're seeing some sort of a slowdown in railcar activity, and that's implied in that guidance?

Hey, Tom, this is James. As a highlight a little bit in the script, we have a lot of moving parts right now. You look at things around an uncertain highway bill, certainly you mentioned the energy space. We don't have specific guidance there for what we expect to continue, but we continue to have challenges in the wind tower business. We've had a higher level of sales from the lease fleet in the first quarter, and we're projecting in the second quarter, then you would see it in the back half of the year. As we mentioned, we're still looking for opportunities for attractive transactions in that space. As we find those, then we will look at taking advantage of those opportunities.

And then as we mentioned also, we still have open slots in both our rail and barge production lines. And so as we look to fill the slots, the level of production we're able to achieve, the operating level we can achieve, and the pricing and resulting margin of all of those variables will be important on what the back half looks like. And then as I mentioned finally the tax rate, there was an advantage in the first quarter from the audits we were able to settle. And as you return to more normalized tax rates, the back half of the year especially, you see a bit of an impact there.

So really, as I've said, it's a lot of moving parts we have in our businesses right now. We're certainly looking to take advantage of everything we can in the market, but there's some challenges in some of the businesses as we go through the rest of the year.

Okay. Steve, you did a good job of providing some commentary on the different railcar types, but I think just stepping back, are -- what are you really sensing in the attitude of prospective buyers? Is it a little bit of a pause because perhaps the economy did something the last five or six weeks, or just any change in the tenor? Forget about just Q1 orders because that's what I think everybody's trying to figure out here. There's a lot of capital goods data points that have decelerated since early March.

Tom, this is Steve. You know, when we look going forward, we really see the energy sector driving demand. And I've mentioned increase automotive production will also drive demand. That has implications in chemical production, perhaps plastics, steel, as well as automobile carriers auto racks. So we really see consistent demand coming from those three markets. And I've not really see a slowdown in demand from any of those markets.

Okay. And I guess the other question back to energy, we know it's been an issue for a few quarters now. I think the thing that is probably a little bit bothersome to everyone is got a little bit of a surprise loss in September. We all digested that. Made a little bit of progress in the fourth quarter. The loss was under $1 million. Now it just feels like the whole -- a little bit of a small Pandora's box has just opened up, almost a $4 million loss. And it's just hard when you've got a -- some macro worries and a small business unit having issues, can you say with any confidence that the loss is likely to narrow? Because your commentary had some things about pricing, mix, supply and demand and other things that were a little bit more descriptive than the last couple of quarters. So it leads us to believe that maybe this is the new run rate of losses.

Tom, this is Tim. You make some really good points there and some good observations. The financial performance of our wind tower business does reflect a lack of improvement, as I said in my script. But we're really making some good strides in our efforts to improve our performance. It's just very difficult to precisely predict the timing of the improvements due to the complexities associated with the wind energy business as well as the internal challenges that we've had.

The product mix challenge associated with wind towers are very complex, and we've made a lot of headway in our manufacturing facilities. The designs are changing more rapidly, as Antonio had mentioned, and each tower type has its own unique features, which require a high level of expertise at the manufacturing level. So that's why we've made some significant investments to enhance our manufacturing competencies in this area. And I feel confident that we're making good progress in this area. We're just not at a point where we can give a precise prediction of our success, but my feeling is very positive in this area. We've got a lot of really high-quality people that we've dedicated resources on. And from an internal point of view, we're seeing some really good progress.

So, Tim, I'll get back in the queue here. If I had to summarize it, what was more difficult in the March quarter than in the December quarter? Because I understand all of those bigger issues but something was more difficult, one or two things were -- that really stood out and seeing the loss climb almost $3 million sequentially.

Well, for one thing, and Antonio mentioned it, we had one plant that finished up at the end of the year without any towers. And so back in the fourth quarter, they did a really nice job of placing some containers in that facility to cover some of the overhead that was associated with it and generate some revenue for that facility. And then they were able to convert back from containers to wind towers right at the end of the quarter. And I think the wind tower run that they had in that plant right now is going to be on a more consistent basis for a few months.

And so that was probably one of the more significant events that we had. It was kind of good news and bad news. It gave us this opportunity to prove out some flexibility that we have and gave us encouragement that we can continue to do that. And that's going to be crucial, as Antonio said, in his comments about flexibility.

Okay. Tim, thank you.

Sure.

We'll move next to the site of Bascome Majors with Susquehanna. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Good morning. You said the tank cars -- I mean, clearly tank cars remain very hot among the car types, and both you guys and ARI said this morning you're now quoting for the third quarter of 2013 or beyond for delivery slots there. I was just curious if you guys have added any capacity, or do you plan to go going forward with ARI nearing their peak and GBX sticking with one tank carline for now?

Yes, this is Tim. I don't believe, Steve, that we stated where we're quoting delivery in that time period for tank cars, did we?

No, we do have some of our backlog extended in the second half of 2013, but we did not state what car types those were.

Yes. So you want a comment on tank car capacity?

Well, I think the question really before us is what type of flexibility do we have in our operations to be able to adjust to shifts in demand. And clearly, Bascome, we're seeing significant demand for tank cars. When we looked at ad capacity, we've done a number of things in our existing facilities to increase the capacity through lean initiatives. So we still feel we have adequate capacity in our facilities to meet that demand. We also have the ability within Trinity's product lines to ship and reallocate production capacity from one product line to another. And as we see, again, demand being sustainable, we will consider those options as well.

I will tell you at this time we do not perceive the need to open any [idled] facilities. And again, we're confident between what our production platform is throughout Trinity and the capacity that we have at our existing plants, that we're well capacitated for the demand in tank cars.

Okay. Well, that makes sense. And if we don't get the PTC extension and [when], and that starts to wind down later this year, what sort of timing on that wind down and when you might seek to potentially use your flexibility to maybe serve tank containers or tank cars with one of those plants?

Antonio, you want to take that?

Well, we have different facilities making wind towers today. And each one of them, depending on our contracts, has different timing. So there is not a specific timing on each facility. But as I mentioned, the flexibility is there. The processes are very similar. So the flexibility is there to do it after the facilities wind down and the tank car [needs and sees] demand sustainable to support those facilities.

Do you have when the delivery is scheduled for 2013 at this point?

We do have contracts that are extending to 2013.

All right. Thank you, guys. That's all I have.

(OPERATOR INSTRUCTIONS) We'll move next to the site of Steve Barger with Keybanc Capital. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Hi. Good morning. For those high-dollar cars you booked, do those enter production into half '12 or more 2013 delivery? I'm trying to understand when that positive mix might really start to hit your margins.

Steve, this is Steve Menzies. I think the answer to that is yes, it's both in the second half of this year and going into 2013.

Okay. And I think if I heard right, you suggested there were open delivery slots left for 2012 in the rail group. And I know you don't talk about specific car types, but are you -- so you're not fully booked for the 19,000 to 20,000 deliveries? Or I guess another way, what percentage of the backlog is specifically slated for 2013?

We've not historically broken out our backlog by years. We do have some slots yet available in 2012, certain lines of ours. And we -- of course, we do have the benefits of our long-term contract with GATX, which builds into 2013 and beyond.

Okay. Switching gears, Steve, you had mentioned there were constraints for some types of specialty steel cars. And I missed -- I didn't hear it right. Is that a current or a potential risk to production? What type of car were you specifically talking about there?

Certain tank cars require specialty steel, and that specialty steel is known as normalized steel. And that steel is highly specialized, and there are only a few producers of that today. That steel is also used in some of applications for oil and gas drilling, so there's high demand for that type of steel from some other industries as well. So as we look to continue to expand tank capacity and to respond to demand for railcars in that market, that is a potential constraint that needs to be considered in moving forward, as well as the potential for the ability to secure valves for increased tank car production.

Just so I understand, does normalized steel go into a normal ethanol or crude car, or is that more for a TIH car or something like that?

There are new requirements being put forth by the FRA that will require normalized steel to be utilized, and what's referred to as packaging groups 1 and 2, hazardous commodity tank cars, of which any of these oil products and ethanol are considered part of.

Got it. And those are proposed rules, or those are in place right now?

The industry seems to be operating for new car production to those rules. We're certainly producing to those rules. And a final rulemaking has not been completed by the FRA.

Got it. Okay. And one other on leasing, did you say what the increase in lease price was for renewals in the quarter year over year?

I did not, and we don't typically disclose that, but we've seen very steady increases in lease renewals, along with a very high percentage of our customers renewing their expiring contracts.

Is it fair to say, if you'll take a shot at it, were those lease renewals up double digit year over year or single digit?

Yes, they've been very good lease renewals.

Got it. Thanks. I'll get back in line.

We have a follow-up question from the site of Tom Albrecht with BB&T Capital Markets. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Yes, I just wanted to follow up a little bit. And I think periodically you've got to ask this question. But in the first quarter, your market share of the new orders was about 25%. Historically, your share of orders and particularly production can run higher than that. What are your thoughts here relative to share versus profitability? It would seem like you're in a spot to really manage your margins and profitability like never before. And maybe the market doesn't fully recognize that. So I'm just curious share versus all those other thoughts.

Yes, sure, Tom, this is Steve. I know you've followed us for a while. We have never driven our business by market share. And certainly any one quarter can be skewed from time to time by one large order or several very moderate-sized orders. Over certain quarters, those orders we didn't pursue. We do look at market share trends over longer periods of time and detailed market share by specific car types. But our principle objective is to focus on orders that optimizes our production in our facilities currently in operation, minimize those line changeovers and reflects favorable pricing levels. And I'm very pleased with the orders we took in the first quarter, satisfying those requirements, and those are the orders that we'll continue to pursue going forward.

So do you feel like there's the opportunity to set record margins this cycle in railcar manufacturing? And then an easy one is should we look for Q2 production to be comparable to Q1?

Tom, this is Tim. I don't really feel like that we can comment about record margins and opportunities. There's endless opportunities within our Company to always enhance our profitability, and we're striving as best we can. And it's just a real complicated question to try to respond to. So I just -- I don't think we have a precise answer to that.

And Tom, the second part of your question -- this is Steve -- with respect to production levels. I think I've indicated we expect production to be between 19,000 and 20,000 cars for the year. And if you look at our first quarter here, we had 5,000 cars produced, so I think you can kind of assume that there's a steady production level for the balance of the year.

Okay. Thank you.

I'm showing no further questions in queue at this time. I'd like to turn the program back over to our presenters for any closing remarks.

Thank you. That concludes today's conference call. A replay of this call will be available after 1.00 Eastern Standard Time today through midnight on May 3, 2012. The access number is 4022202669. Also, the replay will be available on the website located at www.trin.net. We look forward to visiting with you again on our next conference call. Thank you for joining us this morning.

This concludes today's conference. You may disconnect at this time.