Lendingtree Inc (TREE) 2023 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and thank you for standing by, and welcome to the LendingTree conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Andrew Wessel, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

美好的一天，感謝您的支持，歡迎參加 LendingTree 電話會議。 （操作員指示）請注意，今天的會議正在錄製中。現在，我想將會議交給今天的發言人、投資者關係主管安德魯·韋塞爾 (Andrew Wessel)。請繼續。

Thanks, operator. Good morning to everyone joining us on the call to discuss LendingTree's Second Quarter 2023 Financial Results. On the call today are Doug Lebda, LendingTree's Chairman and CEO; and Scott Peyree, COO and President of Marketplace Businesses; and Trent Ziegler, CFO.

謝謝，接線員。大家早上好，與我們一起討論 LendingTree 2023 年第二季度財務業績的電話會議。今天參加電話會議的是 LendingTree 董事長兼首席執行官 Doug Lebda；首席運營官兼市場業務總裁 Scott Peyree；和首席財務官特倫特·齊格勒。

As a reminder to everyone, we posted a detailed letter to shareholders on our Investor Relations website earlier today. And for the purposes of today's call, we'll assume that listeners have read that letter, and we'll focus on Q&A. Before I hand the call over to Doug for his remarks, I remind everyone that during today's call, we may discuss LendingTree's expectations for future performance.

為了提醒大家，我們今天早些時候在投資者關係網站上發布了一封詳細的致股東信。出於今天電話會議的目的，我們假設聽眾已經閱讀了這封信，我們將重點討論問答。在我將電話交給 Doug 發表講話之前，我提醒大家，在今天的電話會議中，我們可能會討論 LendingTree 對未來業績的預期。

Any forward-looking statements that we make are subject to risks and uncertainties, and LendingTree's actual results could differ materially from the views expressed today. Many but not all of the risks we face are described in our periodic reports filed with the SEC.

我們做出的任何前瞻性陳述都存在風險和不確定性，LendingTree 的實際結果可能與今天表達的觀點存在重大差異。我們向 SEC 提交的定期報告中描述了我們面臨的許多（但不是全部）風險。

We will also discuss a variety of non-GAAP measures on the call today, and I refer you to today's press release and shareholder letter, both available on our website, for the comparable GAAP definitions and full reconciliations of non-GAAP measures to GAAP.

我們還將在今天的電話會議上討論各種非公認會計原則措施，我建議您參閱今天的新聞稿和股東信函，兩者均可在我們的網站上找到，以了解可比的公認會計原則定義以及非公認會計原則措施與公認會計原則的全面協調。

And with that, Doug, please go ahead.

道格，請繼續。

Thank you, Andrew, and thank you, everyone, for joining us today. We earned $27 million of adjusted EBITDA in the second quarter, generating a 15% margin, which was well ahead of our forecast. Our outperformance was due to strong segment margin performance in Consumer and Insurance, combined with our laser focus on managing operating expenses.

謝謝安德魯，也謝謝大家今天加入我們。第二季度調整後 EBITDA 為 2700 萬美元，利潤率為 15%，遠遠超出了我們的預測。我們的優異表現得益於消費和保險領域強勁的利潤率表現，以及我們對管理運營費用的高度關注。

Although the revenue environment remains challenging across all 3 of our segments, our team's work on improving operating efficiency allowed us to meet our VMD forecasts.

儘管我們所有 3 個細分市場的收入環境仍然充滿挑戰，但我們團隊在提高運營效率方面的工作使我們能夠滿足 VMD 預測。

As the second quarter progressed, credit markets broadly tightened across the banking and lending industries, causing demand for many of our lending partners to decline. In Home, several mortgage originators were forced to reduce their bids as cost per funded loan had reached levels that were no longer sustainable. Personal and small business lenders broadly tightened their criteria lending further, causing approval rates for our customers to decline.

隨著第二季度的進展，銀行和貸款行業的信貸市場普遍收緊，導致對我們許多貸款合作夥伴的需求下降。在Home，一些抵押貸款發起人被迫降低出價，因為每筆資助貸款的成本已達到不再可持續的水平。個人和小企業貸款機構進一步收緊了貸款標準，導致客戶的批准率下降。

The insurance carriers we work with, were continuing to decrease their marketing budgets as inflationary impacts will require further increases to auto and home premium rates. This revenue degradation continued into July and is baked into our updated financial outlook we're providing this morning. That's the bad news.

與我們合作的保險公司正在繼續減少營銷預算，因為通貨膨脹的影響將需要進一步提高汽車和房屋保費。這種收入下降持續到了七月，並融入了我們今天早上提供的最新財務展望中。這是壞消息。

The good news is that these macroeconomic headwinds should prove temporary. We're encouraged that the Fed is signaling it's nearing end of its campaign to tighten financial conditions with higher interest rates, the pace of inflation continues to slow.

好消息是，這些宏觀經濟阻力應該是暫時的。我們感到鼓舞的是，美聯儲表示其通過加息收緊金融狀況的行動已接近尾聲，通脹步伐繼續放緩。

We also recognized a healthy labor market, with historically low unemployment as a key component for lenders to expand their relationships with our customers, when capital markets volatility and short-term economic uncertainties subside.

我們還認識到，當資本市場波動和短期經濟不確定性消退時，健康的勞動力市場（失業率處於歷史低位）是貸款機構擴大與客戶關係的關鍵組成部分。

We have faced -- we have made changes to adapt to the challenges we're facing. We've focused our management team to capture incremental revenue while improving our expense profile. We have improved our product function and have identified key areas for potential additional savings to result. For example, Scott Totman, our CTO, has taken over personally our data initiative.

我們已經面臨——我們已經做出了改變，以適應我們面臨的挑戰。我們的管理團隊專注於獲取增量收入，同時改善我們的費用狀況。我們改進了產品功能，並確定了可能帶來額外節省的關鍵領域。例如，我們的首席技術官 Scott Totman 親自接管了我們的數據計劃。

We've also brought our people back to the office, which has helped to speed decision-making and reinforce the entrepreneurial culture that has made us such a successful company historically.

我們還讓員工回到辦公室，這有助於加快決策速度並強化創業文化，正是這種文化使我們成為歷史上如此成功的公司。

In the third quarter, the management team is focused on maintaining cost discipline and identifying areas of incremental revenue growth despite the various headwinds that we've been facing. We're going to release our reimagined and rebranded My LendingTree platform and continue working on improving the customer experience to drive more engagement with our customers, higher conversion rates and thus higher unit economics.

在第三季度，儘管我們面臨著各種阻力，但管理團隊的重點是維持成本紀律並確定增量收入增長的領域。我們將發布經過重新設計和重新命名的 My LendingTree 平台，並繼續致力於改善客戶體驗，以推動與客戶的更多互動、更高的轉化率，從而提高單位經濟效益。

Before I turn the call over to Scott for his comments, I would like to thank J.D. Moriarty for the impact he has had in his time at LendingTree. He helped lead our diversification strategy, completing 7 acquisitions in 3 years, which helped us remain solidly profitable despite the very difficult operating environment that we're facing. I could not be more excited for Scott to assume additional responsibilities of leading our lending marketplace businesses.

在我將電話轉給 Scott 徵求意見之前，我要感謝 J.D. Moriarty 在 LendingTree 期間所產生的影響。他幫助領導了我們的多元化戰略，在 3 年內完成了 7 項收購，這幫助我們在面臨非常困難的運營環境的情況下保持穩定的盈利。我對斯科特承擔領導我們的貸款市場業務的額外責任感到非常興奮。

Our sales and marketing teams will also report directly to him. His performance, the Founder and President of QuoteWizard has been exemplary through multiple cycles, including the current one. He has proven to be an excellent operator, inspirational leader and truly embodies the entrepreneurial spirit of LendingTree. We are looking forward to the positive impact he's going to have on our own business, moving forward. Scott?

我們的銷售和營銷團隊也將直接向他匯報。作為 QuoteWizard 的創始人兼總裁，他的表現在多個週期（包括當前週期）中堪稱典範。事實證明，他是一位優秀的經營者、鼓舞人心的領導者，真正體現了LendingTree的創業精神。我們期待他對我們自己的業務產生積極影響，並不斷向前發展。斯科特？

Thanks, Doug. Appreciate it. First off, I'd like to say I'm really excited to take on these expanded responsibilities and looking forward to providing a larger impact for all organizations. .

謝謝，道格。欣賞它。首先，我想說，我很高興能夠承擔這些擴大的職責，並期待為所有組織帶來更大的影響。 。

I've spent the last 2 weeks taking a real deep dive into all the components of the marketplace businesses, and I'm excited to say that both the quality of the people and the number of near-term opportunities that I believe exist in the core business. I will be fully focused on improving the operational efficiency and growing the core business of LendingTree -- businesses of LendingTree.

在過去的兩周里，我真正深入研究了市場業務的所有組成部分，我很高興地說，我相信市場中存在的人員質量和近期機會的數量核心業務。我將全力專注於提高LendingTree的運營效率和發展LendingTree的核心業務——LendingTree的業務。

First off, I really want to build a more cohesive symmetry between the marketing and sales teams as it's critically important for the people developing the products we work very closely with the people selling the product.

首先，我真的想在營銷和銷售團隊之間建立更有凝聚力的對稱性，因為這對於開發產品的人員至關重要，我們與產品銷售人員密切合作。

Similar to Insurance, instead of focusing on [prying] every dime of revenue from customers that are already under budget constraints, we'll be focusing on providing the highest-quality, highest-intent consumers and then focusing on monetizing efforts around those consumers.

與保險業類似，我們不會專注於從已經受到預算限制的客戶那裡獲取每一分錢的收入，而是專注於提供最高質量、最高意願的消費者，然後專注於圍繞這些消費者所做的努力貨幣化。

As we've seen, even due to macro headwinds in the history, we're currently driving the highest-quality traffic at the highest VMM margins in our company history. I fully believe we can do that across the board in all of our business units. In Insurance, we're actually doing more VMD year-over-year over significantly lower revenue, as you can see in the numbers.

正如我們所看到的，即使由於歷史上的宏觀阻力，我們目前也以公司歷史上最高的 VMM 利潤率推動了最高質量的流量。我完全相信我們可以在所有業務部門全面做到這一點。在保險業，正如您在數字中看到的那樣，我們實際上同比做了更多的 VMD，而收入卻大幅下降。

I'm a big believer in having a maniacal focus on a small number of things that are the most impactful to the business. It's already becoming clear to me what some of those things and those items are, and we are actively focusing our resources towards accomplishing those items to quickly get wins on the board.

我堅信應該瘋狂地關注少數對業務影響最大的事情。我已經清楚其中一些事情和項目是什麼，我們正在積極集中資源來完成這些項目，以快速在董事會上取得勝利。

Finally, we'll have a relentless focus on operational efficiency, velocity of decision-making, turning big projects into small projects, challenging long-held assumptions, focusing on understanding the sizes of opportunities before committing resources, et cetera, et cetera. We will have an aggressive offensive stance, going forward, which will have a big impact on our productivity. Thank you.

最後，我們將不懈地關注運營效率、決策速度、將大項目變成小項目、挑戰長期持有的假設、在投入資源之前重點了解機會的規模等等。未來我們將採取積極的進攻姿態，這將對我們的生產力產生重大影響。謝謝。

And now operator, I'd happy to open the call for questions.

現在，接線員，我很樂意開始提問。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from Ryan from KBW.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自 KBW 的 Ryan。

Clearly, the hope is that the revenue environment inevitably improves. But given the importance of navigating the upcoming maturities, maybe you could provide a bit more detail on the different options you're thinking about for addressing the [convert] that goes current next year.

顯然，人們希望收入環境不可避免地得到改善。但考慮到應對即將到來的到期日的重要性，也許您可以提供更多有關您正在考慮的不同選項的詳細信息，以解決明年的[轉換]問題。

Do you feel like the current free cash flow and EBITDA profile of the business can support that? And I guess on the expense side, are there additional levers you could pull if needed, in the scenario that the revenue environment doesn't go your way?

您認為該業務目前的自由現金流和 EBITDA 狀況可以支持這一點嗎？我想在費用方面，如果收入環境不符合你的預期，你是否可以在需要時使用額外的槓桿？

I'll open up broadly and then let Trent give you the details. Obviously, this is something that we are very, very focused on, and we have had a number of conversations internally. We have a number of options that we are exploring, I don't know how much of those details we want to talk about.

我將廣泛地開放，然後讓特倫特向您提供詳細信息。顯然，這是我們非常非常關注的事情，我們內部進行了多次對話。我們正在探索許多選項，我不知道我們想討論多少細節。

But to the extent of other levers, the answer is yes. We do have discretionary product investments that I've talked about that if they -- if things do not bear fruit, you can certainly make changes there. So yes, there are other cost levers you can do. .

但就其他槓桿而言，答案是肯定的。我們確實有我已經談到過的可自由支配的產品投資，如果事情沒有取得成果，你當然可以在那裡做出改變。所以，是的，您還可以採取其他成本控制措施。 。

Right now, we want to maintain a balance between [new] focus, a small investment initiative -- investment into initiatives around data, customer experience because we think they're core to the business. But at the same time, we're incredibly judicious with that. But suffice it to say, we are very, very, very focused on that maturity and would hope to be refinancing it in some way. Go ahead, Trent.

現在，我們希望在[新]重點和小型投資計劃之間保持平衡——投資於圍繞數據和客戶體驗的計劃，因為我們認為它們是業務的核心。但與此同時，我們對此非常明智。但可以說，我們非常、非常、非常關注這種成熟度，並希望以某種方式為其再融資。繼續吧，特倫特。

Yes. I mean, I think Doug covered it well. We're obviously laser-focused on it. We're exploring a bunch of alternative options available to us. I think the good news is we take some solace in the fact that there's -- we have 4 quarters left before that maturity becomes current. We've got 8 quarters left before it actually matures. And so we're weighing all of our options relative to the performance of the business. Obviously, the option's available to us to get a little bit better, should performance improve.

是的。我的意思是，我認為道格講得很好。顯然我們非常關注它。我們正在探索一系列可用的替代方案。我認為好消息是我們可以得到一些安慰，因為在成熟期到來之前我們還剩下 4 個季度。在它真正成熟之前我們還剩 8 個季度。因此，我們正在權衡與業務績效相關的所有選擇。顯然，如果性能有所提高，我們可以使用該選項來獲得更好的效果。

And I think we have some reason to believe that as we get a little bit more certainty around macro, there's good reason to believe that the Insurance backdrop could turn a little bit as we head into next year, some stability in some of our consumer businesses should provide some upside. And so we're weighing all those alternatives relative to the performance of the business.

我認為我們有理由相信，隨著我們對宏觀經濟有了更多的確定性，我們有充分的理由相信，進入明年，保險業的背景可能會發生一些變化，我們的一些消費業務會保持一定的穩定性應該會提供一些好處。因此，我們正在權衡所有這些與業務績效相關的替代方案。

Yes. And the only thing I'd add is, in an environment like this, where your unit economics on the revenue side, whether it's the price lenders want to pay, the amount of volume or the coverage of how wide they're willing to go, as all of that has gone negative and we have gotten sharper and sharper and sharper on the marketing side, particularly in Insurance, and Scott just talked about bringing that to the [lending] side, the business and the margin profile increases, when you get any sort of tailwind on the other side, whether it's a conversion rate increase through product improvement, whether it's lenders expanding demand in some way, that margin tends to stick.

是的。我唯一要補充的是，在這樣的環境中，你的單位經濟效益在收入方面，無論是貸方想要支付的價格、數量還是他們願意的覆蓋範圍，因為所有這些都變得消極，我們在營銷方面變得越來越敏銳，特別是在保險方面，斯科特剛剛談到將其帶到[貸款]方面，業務和利潤狀況都會增加，當你無論是通過產品改進提高轉化率，還是貸方以某種方式擴大需求，這種利潤率都會保持不變。

So obviously, sometime in the next many quarters, we're going to have to be improving our financial profile so that people are going to want to lend money to us. But we are laser, laser-focused on that, while Trent is also working on financial options as well.

顯然，在接下來的幾個季度的某個時候，我們將不得不改善我們的財務狀況，以便人們願意借錢給我們。但我們非常專注於此，而特倫特也在研究金融選擇。

I appreciate all that color. I guess on the guidance, the revised guide looks like it implies second-half EBITDA of around $30 million to $40 million by our math round numbers, $60 million to $80 million annualized. And it looks like the implied 4Q EBITDA guide is at the low end of that range on an annualized basis.

我很欣賞所有這些顏色。我想根據指導意見，修訂後的指導意見看起來意味著下半年的 EBITDA 約為 3000 萬至 4000 萬美元（按我們的數學數字計算），年化為 6000 萬至 8000 萬美元。按年化計算，隱含的第四季度 EBITDA 指南似乎處於該範圍的低端。

I guess, should we think about that as kind of the run rate EBITDA power, as things stand here for the business today? And are there key variables that could move the needle in the second half relative to the guidance that you'd call out specifically?

我想，我們是否應該將其視為 EBITDA 運行率的一種力量，就目前的業務情況而言？相對於您特別指出的指導，是否有一些關鍵變量可能會在下半年產生影響？

I guess, what's -- we're calling out relative to that would be -- obviously, we're -- the revenue challenges are real, and we're seeing those, and that's probably not a surprise to anybody, given the headlines around -- as the worst mortgage environment in 20 years. We've talked about home equity as a relative source of strength. Within that, that's starting to be a little bit more challenging as rates continue to go higher, that's becoming less attractive for consumers. .

我想，相對於此，我們所呼籲的——顯然，我們——收入挑戰是真實的，我們正在看到這些，考慮到頭條新聞，這對任何人來說可能都不會感到驚訝大約是20年來最糟糕的抵押貸款環境。我們已經討論過房屋淨值是相對實力的來源。其中，隨著利率繼續走高，這開始變得更具挑戰性，這對消費者的吸引力變得越來越小。 。

And so there are a lot of reasons why we've had to pull down our revenue outlook for the rest of the year. What I would say is, we are forecasting similar seasonal declines in Q4. Q4 is always a seasonally much slower period for us. And I think there is a little bit of uncertainty as to how much of that seasonal effect show up in a year, where sort of the baseline has already beaten up a little bit, right?

因此，有很多原因導致我們不得不下調今年剩餘時間的收入前景。我想說的是，我們預測第四季度會出現類似的季節性下降。對於我們來說，第四季度始終是季節性放緩的時期。我認為，季節性效應在一年中出現的程度存在一些不確定性，基線已經稍微好一點了，對嗎？

And so we're certainly taking a conservative stance with regard to forecasting those trends through the rest of the year and in the fourth quarter in particular.

因此，對於預測今年剩餘時間，特別是第四季度的這些趨勢，我們當然採取保守立場。

Yes. The way I -- just to add on a little bit, I think of Q2 as solid quarter, not where it historically has been, but call it fairly normal. Q3, as we talked about, you're seeing some pullbacks from lenders that we do not believe are institutionalized in the market.

是的。我只是補充一點，我認為第二季度是一個穩定的季度，而不是歷史上的水平，但稱其相當正常。第三季度，正如我們所討論的，您會看到貸方的一些撤回，我們認為這些撤回並未在市場上製度化。

It's not like our product doesn't work. It's not like the buyers aren't there. It's literally just that they -- just like we won't bid on Google search [terms] path to point of profitability, lenders do the same thing with us. So we don't see that, clearly, as permanent.

這並不是說我們的產品不起作用。買家又不是不在那裡。從字面上看，就像我們不會在谷歌搜索[術語]路徑上出價以達到盈利點一樣，貸款人也對我們做同樣的事情。因此，我們顯然並不認為這種情況是永久性的。

The other thing that we take some comfort in is when we talk to lenders about what they're doing with us vis-a-vis competitors, we feel like we're, generally speaking, one of the last places that they turn off or that they pull back on.

另一件讓我們感到安慰的事情是，當我們與貸方談論他們與我們相對於競爭對手所做的事情時，我們覺得，一般來說，我們是他們最後關閉或關閉的地方之一。他們撤退了。

And then Q4, as Trent said, is seasonal, is a seasonal downturn. Typically, in our industry, people -- consumers in general are not thinking about financial services in Q4, and then they really think about it in Q1. So no, I wouldn't take this as the ongoing run rate.

然後第四季度，正如特倫特所說，是季節性的，是季節性的低迷。通常，在我們的行業中，人們——一般消費者在第四季度不會考慮金融服務，然後他們在第一季度才會真正考慮它。所以不，我不會將此視為持續運行率。

Short answer to that question is I think Q3 is probably a better baseline to use as your run rate. Q3 is a better baseline than Q4 as you look at kind of how you model it into next year.

對這個問題的簡短回答是，我認為第三季度可能是用作運行率的更好基準。當你考慮如何將其模型化到明年時，第三季度是比第四季度更好的基線。

Our next question comes from Jed Kelly from Oppenheimer & Company.

我們的下一個問題來自奧本海默公司的傑德·凱利。

Just circling back on the Insurance segment, should we expect this margin profile you're seeing to continue as demand from the carriers is depressed?

回到保險領域，隨著運營商的需求低迷，我們是否應該期望您所看到的這種利潤狀況繼續下去？

And then just looking at the insurance marketing segment in general, Scott, there's quite a few of the marketplaces that participate in this business. Are all of them going to be able to survive as this continues to get pushed out? Or do you see some type of consolidation happening in the industry? Just can you touch on how you think these headwinds are going to affect some of your competitors?

斯科特，只要看看保險營銷領域，就有相當多的市場參與這項業務。隨著這種情況繼續被推出，他們所有人都能生存下來嗎？或者您是否看到該行業正在發生某種類型的整合？您能否談談您認為這些不利因素將如何影響您的一些競爭對手？

Yes. Thanks, Jed. I'll start with the margins. Yes, in the compressed market, we would expect our margins to remain high. Because like I mentioned earlier, we're just focusing on the highest quality, highest intent on consumers for our clients with the limited budgets they have.

是的。謝謝，傑德。我將從邊距開始。是的，在壓縮的市場中，我們預計我們的利潤率將保持在較高水平。因為就像我之前提到的，我們只專注於為預算有限的客戶提供最高質量、最高意圖的消費者。

And honestly, there -- our competitors' advertising is very suppressed, our direct clients, like they're not spending any money directly with a lot of places they historically do. So the traffic -- being that we're focusing, we're not spreading our spend out in our monetization now like spin like butter, like we're focusing on the right areas. So we would expect our margins to stay good.

老實說，我們的競爭對手的廣告受到非常壓制，我們的直接客戶，就像他們沒有直接在他們歷史上做過的很多地方花任何錢一樣。因此，流量 - 我們正在關注，我們現在不會像黃油一樣旋轉，就像我們專注於正確的領域一樣，將我們的支出分散在我們的貨幣化中。因此，我們預計我們的利潤率將保持良好。

Now when the budget started coming back in '24, then margins might be start getting compressed a little bit as the marketplaces get more competitive. But that said, it will be very conscientious about total VMD dollars going up significantly, which we think we're really well positioned for that when the budget starts coming back, which I do expect them to start coming back in early '24.

現在，當預算在 24 年開始恢復時，隨著市場競爭變得更加激烈，利潤率可能會開始有所壓縮。但話雖如此，我們將非常認真地對待 VMD 總美元的大幅增長，我們認為當預算開始恢復時，我們已經做好了充分的準備，我確實預計預算將在 24 年初開始恢復。

Now that kind of leads into your final question of the competitors. And yes, long story short is there will be a number of players that don't survive this. There's a number of -- I would almost say, you start with the smaller marketing affiliates that maybe aren't as well known out there, that do go out and kind of clog up the marketplace a little bit.

現在這就引出了關於競爭對手的最後一個問題。是的，長話短說，將會有許多玩家無法倖存。有很多——我幾乎想說，你從規模較小的營銷附屬公司開始，這些附屬公司可能不那麼出名，但它們確實走出去，有點堵塞了市場。

Those guys have been hit really hard, and some of them have exited the marketplaces like the SCM marketplaces, for example, and I don't know if they'll ever come back into those marketplaces. Some of them just disappear. Some of them might get consolidated into some of the bigger players.

這些人受到了非常嚴重的打擊，其中一些人已經退出了 SCM 市場等市場，我不知道他們是否會回到這些市場。其中一些就消失了。其中一些可能會合併到一些更大的參與者中。

I don't know if any of the big players, ourselves included, are out looking to actively look to buy any of these guys without getting an absolute screaming deal out of it. But I do think when we get into next year, similar to the 2016 downturn, there's going to be a lot fewer players in the marketplace, which does create a Goldilocks scenario for a performance marketing company.

我不知道是否有任何大公司，包括我們自己，正在積極尋求購買這些公司中的任何一個，而不會從中獲得絕對令人尖叫的交易。但我確實認為，當我們進入明年時，類似於 2016 年的低迷時期，市場上的參與者將會少得多，這確實為績效營銷公司創造了一個金發姑娘的場景。

And then just as a follow-up, Scott, what is the team looking at? Is it interest rates stabilizing, supply chain stabilizing that gives you confidence that the carriers are going to get their profitable -- underwriting profitability under control?

接下來，斯科特，團隊在關注什麼？是利率穩定、供應鏈穩定讓您相信承運人將獲得盈利——承保盈利能力得到控制嗎？

Insurance is not interest rates as much as it is inflation, that's insurance companies' problems. And so they need inflation -- because right now -- for the past 18 months, they have not been able to keep their rate increases at the pace of how inflation has been going. And inflation in -- as well publicized in the auto insurance industry for car repairs and whatnot has been even higher than the overall CPI, and it still is quite a bit higher.

保險不是利率，而是通貨膨脹，這是保險公司的問題。因此，他們需要通脹——因為現在——在過去 18 個月裡，他們無法將加息速度保持在通脹的水平上。汽車保險行業公佈的汽車維修等通脹率甚至高於整體消費者物價指數，而且仍然高出不少。

But that all said, it is starting to cool down and there is positive signs, used car prices, cost of car repairs, it's starting to normalize and come down. So that equation where they can't catch up to inflation is now starting to change with the rate increases, inflation started to stabilize in the car insurance industry, and the rate increases keep happening.

但總而言之，它開始降溫，並且出現了積極的跡象，二手車價格、汽車維修成本開始正常化並下降。因此，他們無法趕上通貨膨脹的方程式現在開始隨著利率的上漲而改變，汽車保險行業的通貨膨脹開始穩定，並且利率不斷上漲。

So sooner or later, those lines will cross. They will get back to a profitable combined ratio scenario. And so then you can -- and so then the big hope with a lot of these carriers is that they're feeling a really good spot by the end of '23 when the budget cycle is switched to '24 that they're feeling that all the policies they're bringing on are profitable policies they're bringing on and they reset the budgets going into '24. And based on their confidence level, they can get aggressive really quick. But the big driving factor is inflation stabilizing.

因此，這些界限遲早會交叉。他們將回到有利可圖的綜合比率情景。那麼你就可以 - 所以很多這些運營商的最大希望是，到 23 年底，當預算週期切換到 24 年底時，他們感覺自己處於一個非常好的位置，他們感覺他們推出的所有政策都是有利可圖的政策，並且他們重置了進入“24”的預算。根據他們的信心水平，他們可以很快變得咄咄逼人。但最大的推動因素是通脹穩定。

Yes, we were talking about this yesterday at our Board meeting, and Scott hit the point of the combined ratio, but also that it varies state by state. In a number of your large states, where, for example, California, that state-by-state, things do work.

是的，我們昨天在董事會會議上討論了這個問題，斯科特談到了綜合比率的要點，但它也因州而異。在許多大州，例如加利福尼亞州，各個州的情況確實有效。

Insurance carriers, if they're not going to make money, they're not going to go market to originate that policy for sure, and that's the same thing you see with the lenders. And so with -- when rates stabilize and inflation stabilizes, some way, those are both intertwined, we feel like we're going to be a much sharper company and be ready to roll.

保險公司，如果他們不賺錢，他們肯定不會進入市場來製定該保單，這與你在貸方身上看到的情況是一樣的。因此，當利率穩定和通脹穩定時，在某種程度上，這些都是交織在一起的，我們覺得我們將成為一家更加敏銳的公司，並準備好前進。

Our next question comes from Youssef Squali from Truist Securities.

我們的下一個問題來自 Truist Securities 的 Youssef Squali。

So maybe a quick one for Doug and one for Trent. So Doug, obviously, anybody looking at Tree right now, they're looking past the second half of the year, they're looking into '24 and beyond. Knowing what you know today, what kind of segments -- or what segment, sorry, do you see kind of coming back first? And what are the kind of indicators or gating factors that you're kind of watching for that turnaround?

所以也許道格可以快一點，特倫特也可以快一點。所以道格，顯然，現在任何關注 Tree 的人，他們都在關注下半年之後的情況，他們正在關注 24 年及以後的情況。知道你今天所知道的，什麼樣的細分市場——或者什麼細分市場，抱歉，你認為首先會回來嗎？您正在關注哪些指標或控制因素來觀察這種轉變？

And then Trent, good job on the operating efficiencies that you've shown against a pretty tough top line. But how much of that operating cost efficiency do you think you can maintain maybe into next year as revenues come back?

然後是特倫特，在相當艱難的收入線下，您在運營效率方面表現出色。但是，隨著收入回升，您認為明年可以維持多少運營成本效率？

I'll take the first. I would say, in this order, I think you'll see Insurance come back first. I think you'll see probably Consumer come back second. And I think you'll see Home come back third. And by the way, the -- I think -- as you think about it, those are also in order of probably the most -- the biggest opportunities as well for revenue and profit contribution.

我就拿第一個吧我想說，按照這個順序，我想你會看到保險首先回歸。我想你可能會看到消費者排在第二位。我想你會看到Home 獲得第三名。順便說一句，我認為，正如你所想，這些也可能是收入和利潤貢獻最大的機會。

The Insurance business got covered. That's a fact of simply insurance companies being able to underwrite -- get their rates higher, so that they can underwrite appropriately and profitably.

保險業務得到了保障。事實上，保險公司能夠承保——提高他們的費率，這樣他們就可以適當地承保並有利可圖。

Consumer, keep in mind that many of the personal loan lenders or pretty much most of them are either marketplace lenders or correspondent lenders that are selling funds directly into the capital markets. So the capital markets are tighter, which we don't know what the Fed is doing, that's going to hurt there. But that air hose snaps that. The capital market has stepped on that arrows from time to time with us, but it always bounces back.

消費者，請記住，許多或幾乎大多數個人貸款放款人要么是市場放款人，要么是直接向資本市場出售資金的代理放款人。因此，資本市場變得更加緊張，我們不知道美聯儲在做什麼，這將會對其造成傷害。但那個空氣軟管卻把它折斷了。資本市場時不時地和我們一起踩到那支箭，但總能反彈回來。

And then the Home business, right now, you've got -- refinancing obviously doesn't make sense for anybody. And in the purchase market, home buying and selling is not what it would be, given high rates and buyers and sellers really kind of staring at each other in that market. And then I would say, underlying all of that is us trying to improve our consumer experience, which improves conversion rate, which makes the whole business profitable, I think Insurance, Consumer and Home.

然後是家庭業務，現在，再融資顯然對任何人都沒有意義。在購買市場上，考慮到高利率以及買家和賣家在該市場上確實有點互相盯著，房屋的買賣並不是原來的樣子。然後我想說，所有這一切的根本是我們試圖改善我們的消費者體驗，這提高了轉化率，這使整個業務盈利，我認為保險、消費者和家庭。

And then the other thing that we really monitor, as I said before, is like if we're gaining share or maintaining share versus competitors, that's important, too. I won't say it's perfect in every one of those, but I do know that I feel really good from the standpoint of our partnerships, the efficacy of the model. And lenders just want to do business with us, and they're telling us this is -- it's an economic thing right now, and they'll be back.

正如我之前所說，我們真正監控的另一件事是，我們是否正在與競爭對手相比獲得份額或保持份額，這也很重要。我不會說它在每一個方面都是完美的，但我確實知道，從我們的合作夥伴關係和模型功效的角度來看，我感覺非常好。貸款人只是想與我們做生意，他們告訴我們，這是現在的經濟問題，他們會回來的。

Yes. And then, Youssef, on the operating efficiency point, I mean, I think what we've seen is we've taken a lot of steps over the last 12 -- 6 to 12 months to simplify the business in many respects. As Doug noted earlier, like candidly, we still have some discretionary investment going on, right, that we could choose to dial back if the situation warranted. .

是的。然後，Youssef，關於運營效率問題，我的意思是，我認為我們在過去 12 至 6 到 12 個月中採取了很多措施，在許多方面簡化了業務。正如道格早些時候指出的那樣，我們仍然有一些可自由支配的投資正在進行，對吧，如果情況允許，我們可以選擇收回投資。 。

But no, I mean, I think we've seen, as a result of leaning out and getting more focused and efficient, we're already operating better and faster and on more -- fewer focused things, right? And so as the revenue opportunity comes back, looking into next year, there's not a need to continue to staff up considerably against that revenue backdrop. I don't see our OpEx growing materially at all as we look into next year.

但不，我的意思是，我認為我們已經看到，由於精益求精並變得更加專注和高效，我們已經在運營得更好、更快，並且專注於更多、更少的事情，對吧？因此，隨著收入機會的回歸，展望明年，在收入背景下沒有必要繼續大量增加員工。展望明年，我認為我們的運營支出根本不會大幅增長。

So I'll tell you, just long out on one change that we made internally, which is most companies you might set goals and OKRs at the beginning of the year, probably do it in November. And then by January, February, a highly changing environment that is pretty much irrelevant. We've moved to a quarterly cycle. And then to the fewer [things] comment, everybody in the company is responsible for 3 to 5 things that you're going to make sure that you deliver on in the next 3 months. I mentioned in the last quarter, we did that with our -- how we do product.

所以我會告訴你，只是期待我們內部做出的一項改變，即大多數公司你可能會在年初設定目標和 OKR，可能會在 11 月完成。然後到了一月、二月，環境發生了巨大變化，幾乎無關緊要。我們已經轉向季度週期。然後，對於較少的[事情]評論，公司中的每個人都負責 3 到 5 件事情，你要確保在接下來的 3 個月內交付這些事情。我在上個季度提到，我們通過我們的產品製作方式做到了這一點。

By the way, we've also brought on a lot of new management and made a lot of changes to make us sharper as well, too. But that quarterly cycle enables us to pivot, enables us to look at each one of our initiatives, say, "Okay, like this one's working. That one is not. This one is behind, right? Let's ship personnel over here. The market's changed, let's double down over there."

順便說一句，我們還引進了很多新的管理層，並做出了很多改變，讓我們變得更加敏銳。但是這個季度週期使我們能夠進行調整，使我們能夠審視我們的每一項舉措，說：“好吧，就像這個在起作用。那個不起作用。這個落後了，對吧？讓我們把人員運送到這裡。市場的變了，我們那邊加倍吧。”

So it has enabled us to be much more nimble, and we're doing a lot more with individualized, focused teams that are cross-functional who can make all the decisions. So as Scott was alluding to, to just getting faster, a lot of that -- all goes into it. We're really, really trying to improve the way we do operations and -- at this company.

因此，它使我們變得更加靈活，並且我們正在與可以做出所有決策的跨職能的個性化、專注的團隊一起做更多的事情。因此，正如斯科特所暗示的那樣，為了變得更快，很多事情——一切都在其中。我們真的非常非常努力地改進我們公司的運營方式。

Our next question comes from John Campbell from Stephens Inc.

我們的下一個問題來自 Stephens Inc. 的 John Campbell。

Trent, I think in the past, you've talked to the belief that you can return the business back to high teens or kind of possibly 20% type of EBITDA margins. You guys are obviously there in the past. You're going to need a degree of a rebound in the top line, I'm sure, for that better leverage. But you've taken a lot of steep cost cuts. It sounds like you -- there's going to be a little bit more in back half. And Trent, I think you said that maybe very modest, if any, OpEx growth next year.

Trent，我想在過去，您曾說過相信您可以將業務恢復到十幾歲或 20% 的 EBITDA 利潤率。你們顯然過去就在那裡。我確信，為了獲得更好的槓桿作用，你需要一定程度的營收反彈。但你們已經大幅削減了成本。聽起來像你——後半場會多一點。特倫特，我想你說過明年的運營支出增長可能非常有限（如果有的話）。

But maybe if you guys can talk about how you're feeling about that margin target now? And maybe what type of top line you think you might need to get back to those past margin levels?

但也許你們能談談你們現在對這個利潤目標的感受嗎？也許您認為您可能需要哪種類型的營收才能恢復到過去的利潤水平？

Yes. No, thanks, John. I mean, look, we hit 15% EBITDA margins in the second quarter. That's a level that we hadn't been at in quite some time, and that's against a pretty bleak revenue backdrop. I mean obviously, the revenue trend continues to work against us in the back half of this year.

是的。不，謝謝，約翰。我的意思是，看，我們第二季度的 EBITDA 利潤率達到了 15%。這是我們很長一段時間沒有達到的水平，而且是在收入相當慘淡的背景下。我的意思是，顯然，今年下半年的收入趨勢繼續對我們不利。

But I think we have reconfigured the cost structure of the business in such a way that any rebound in the top line should result in us getting back to mid- to high teens EBITDA margins in the not-too-distant future. I don't think it would take much.

但我認為我們已經重新配置了業務的成本結構，收入的任何反彈都將導致我們在不遠的將來回到中高的 EBITDA 利潤率。我認為這不需要太多。

Yes, I'll just add in there. I mean, just for specific example, going to Insurance is some of our largest clients, which we -- when they come back and they start spending significant budget again with us, we don't have to hire a bunch of people or anything. We don't -- we have the same account managers, we have the same marketers. We're just generating more revenue in VMD over the same cost basis.

是的，我就在那裡添加。我的意思是，僅舉一個具體的例子，去保險業是我們最大的一些客戶，當他們回來並開始再次與我們一起花費大量預算時，我們不必僱用一群人或任何東西。我們沒有——我們有相同的客戶經理，我們有相同的營銷人員。我們只是在相同的成本基礎上通過 VMD 產生更多的收入。

So as Trent alluded to in an earlier question, I believe across all the industries we're in, we can see significant revenue in VMD growth without the need for OpEx growth for quite some time.

因此，正如 Trent 在之前的問題中提到的那樣，我相信在我們所處的所有行業中，我們都可以看到 VMD 增長帶來的可觀收入，而在相當長的一段時間內不需要運營支出增長。

Yes, makes a lot of sense. And then on Homes, I saw in the shareholder letter, you guys called out the 11% decline in HELOC. And just kind of triangulating that or at least in my math, I'm showing that mortgage would be down maybe 15%, 20% or so sequentially. The industry, it looks like, was actually up 40%. That's just for seasonality. I'm guessing you guys maybe just kind of deemphasize that from the VMD standpoint. So any kind of color you can provide there?

是的，很有道理。然後在 Homes 上，我在股東信中看到，你們指出 HELOC 下降了 11%。通過三角測量，或者至少在我的數學中，我發現抵押貸款可能會連續下降 15%、20% 左右。該行業看起來實際上增長了 40%。這只是季節性的。我猜你們可能只是從 VMD 的角度淡化了這一點。那麼您可以在那裡提供任何類型的顏色嗎？

And then also, I don't want to put your feet to the fire, but I mean, is it potentially -- do you feel like this could be the trough for Homes or maybe just mortgage with the 2Q results?

另外，我不想讓你陷入困境，但我的意思是，這是否有可能——你覺得這可能是房屋的低谷，還是只是抵押貸款與第二季度的結果？

So picking the trough, listen, we hope so. And at the same time, the mortgage lenders are taking capacity. From an industry standpoint like -- and channel checks, et cetera, it feels like purchase is poised to do better and rates are -- and the mortgage rates seem to not be rising.

所以挑低谷，聽著，我們希望如此。與此同時，抵押貸款機構正在釋放產能。從行業的角度來看——以及渠道檢查等，感覺購買準備好，利率也好——而且抵押貸款利率似乎沒有上升。

The flip side of that would be some lenders are taking -- and I think you'll hear from it from some lenders are doing layoffs and pulling back on capacity. So from the standpoint of the price they're willing to pay, the quantity they want and the coverage, the demand equation, their capacity -- I want to make sure we're not going to see reductions in capacity, which would reduced the demand equation.

另一方面，一些貸方正在採取行動，我想你會聽到一些貸方正在裁員並縮減產能。因此，從他們願意支付的價格、他們想要的數量以及覆蓋範圍、需求方程、他們的容量的角度來看——我想確保我們不會看到容量的減少，這會減少需求方程。

Now that said, flip side to that is one of the things that we are going to do aggressively, particularly with Scott coming in here, is really get out and see our clients, plan with them and be much more closer to them over this period of time personally from both Scott and me and the rest of the team. So I expect some just operational wins there. Scott, anything to add?

話雖如此，另一方面，我們要積極做的事情之一，特別是斯科特來到這裡，就是真正走出去見見我們的客戶，與他們一起計劃，並在此期間與他們更加接近。斯科特和我以及團隊其他成員個人花費了很多時間。所以我預計那裡會取得一些運營上的勝利。斯科特，有什麼要補充的嗎？

I would add in also just -- I mean you look at the refi market, I mean, I would say that's a -- that has fallen off dramatically. And I would say, you're probably at a trough, we might be at the trough a little bit. But what I would add there is if you think about it, every month, there is a lot of consumers out there purchasing homes at very high interest rates. I mean, that's happening every month right now this year.

我還要補充一點——我的意思是你看看再融資市場，我的意思是，我會說這是一個——已經急劇下降。我想說，你可能正處於低谷，我們可能也正處於低谷。但我要補充的是，如果你仔細想想，每個月都有很多消費者以非常高的利率購買房屋。我的意思是，今年每個月都會發生這種情況。

And so it does -- if you look into early next year, and you could theoretically see maybe some mortgage rates start to drop a little bit, and so you have -- you will have this ingrained user base of consumers that bought homes this year that will be actively looking to refi with any drop in interest rates at all. So that could be a start of a little bit of a benefit next year from a, compare and say, company like ours.

確實如此——如果你展望明年初，理論上你可能會看到一些抵押貸款利率開始略有下降，所以你——你將擁有今年購房的消費者這一根深蒂固的用戶群只要利率有任何下降，他們都會積極尋求再融資。因此，這可能是明年像我們這樣的公司帶來一點好處的開始。

The other comment I'd make inside of our product development initiatives, and [Owen] is doing a fantastic job, has taken over product. We're focused on purchase conversion rates. Now as many of you know, that's been an age-old challenge at LendingTree how to crack that code, but we are working on it and hope to see some progress.

我在我們的產品開發計劃中發表的另一條評論是，[歐文]做得非常出色，已經接管了產品。我們關注購買轉化率。現在，正如你們許多人所知，如何破解該代碼一直是 LendingTree 面臨的一個古老挑戰，但我們正在努力解決這個問題，並希望看到一些進展。

Our next question comes from Melissa from JPMorgan.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根大通的梅麗莎。

First, I wanted to follow up on the revised guidance and just kind of comparing EBITDA margins from the most recent quarter, which, Trent, you noted were in the mid-teens. Just sort of implied in the back half, you're guiding to margins in the low double digits, so a couple of hundred bps lower than 2Q levels. I'm just trying to wrap my head around that, is it just sort of embedded conservatism and guidance driving that or something else that you're seeing?

首先，我想跟進修訂後的指導方針，並比較最近一個季度的 EBITDA 利潤率，特倫特，你注意到這一利潤率在十幾歲左右。就像後半部分暗示的那樣，您的利潤率將保持在低兩位數，因此比第二季度的水平低幾百個基點。我只是想弄清楚這一點，這是否只是某種根深蒂固的保守主義和指導推動的，或者你看到的其他東西？

No. It's just the magnitude of the kind of compressed revenue in the back half of the year. We assume that we have done most of the work on the cost structure in the first half of this year, kind of the quarterly OpEx levels, we expect to remain relatively consistent through the back half of the year to where they were in Q2.

不，這只是下半年收入壓縮的幅度。我們假設我們已經在今年上半年完成了成本結構的大部分工作，即季度運營支出水平，我們預計今年下半年將與第二季度的水平保持相對一致。

But obviously, as your revenue trails off, that's going to impact our EBITDA margin. I mean, in the core gross margins or VMM, we actually do expect to see a little bit of improvement there in a couple of segments. It's just not quite enough to offset the magnitude of the decline in the revenue guide.

但顯然，隨著您的收入減少，這將影響我們的 EBITDA 利潤率。我的意思是，在核心毛利率或 VMM 方面，我們實際上確實期望在幾個細分市場中看到一點點改善。這還不足以抵消收入指南下降的幅度。

By the way, one thing I'd add on the margin front. We did a little math calculation here for a prior question of how much would you need to get to 20% EBITDA margin on Q2, it's roughly, you need $10 million of VMD. And if we could do out of the 50% VMM margin, you need $20 million revenue in the quarter. That's not a -- that is not a long thought.

順便說一句，我要在邊距前面添加一件事。我們在這裡對之前的問題進行了一些數學計算，即您需要多少資金才能在第二季度達到 20% 的 EBITDA 利潤率，粗略地說，您需要 1000 萬美元的 VMD。如果我們能夠利用 50% 的 VMM 利潤，那麼本季度您需要 2000 萬美元的收入。這不是一個——這不是一個長期的想法。

And it -- I can't tell you when we're going to do it, but I can tell you we're going to get there because I can tell you we've been there before. And typically when the company has come back from the 2 other significant financial dislocations, it has come back bigger and stronger with more share.

我不能告訴你我們什麼時候會做到這一點，但我可以告訴你我們會到達那裡，因為我可以告訴你我們以前去過那裡。通常，當公司從另外兩次重大財務混亂中恢復過來時，它會變得更大更強，擁有更多份額。

Okay. Got it. A follow-up question on a couple of the categories within Consumer. If we're looking at things, right, it looks like there is a little bit of a sequential increase in card -- in terms of revenue in card and personal loan.

好的。知道了。關於消費者中幾個類別的後續問題。如果我們看一下事情，對吧，從卡和個人貸款的收入來看，卡的收入似乎有一點連續的增長。

I just wanted to understand, how you attribute that? Is it mostly -- do you think -- is there some seasonality in that number? Are you starting to see sort of TreeQual payoff? What do you -- what's driving that?

我只是想了解一下，你是如何歸因的？您認為，這個數字主要是否存在季節性？您開始看到 TreeQual 的回報了嗎？你做什麼——是什麼推動了這一點？

Yes. On card, in particular, we talked last quarter about how we migrated to a sort of new and improved foundational platform on which we operate that business. That has enabled us to better leverage LendingTree proper domain, right?

是的。特別是在卡方面，我們上個季度討論瞭如何遷移到一種新的、改進的基礎平台來運營該業務。這使我們能夠更好地利用 LendingTree 適當的域，對吧？

You recall, we acquired the CompareCards business back in 2016, 2017, and that has been primary sort of activity. Like, most of the activity in the card business for us has run through that domain. There's a lot of value in us migrating some of that activity and some of that traffic over to the LendingTree domain to capture e-mails and repeat business and things like that. And so we're seeing that bear fruit.

您還記得，我們​​早在 2016 年、2017 年就收購了 CompareCards 業務，這一直是我們的主要業務。例如，我們卡業務的大部分活動都經過該領域。我們將部分活動和部分流量遷移到 LendingTree 域以捕獲電子郵件和重複業務以及類似的事情具有很大的價值。所以我們看到了成果。

And so you saw a slight uptick in not only revenue, but a relatively pronounced uptick in the margin profile of that business in Q2, and we expect that to continue to progress forward through the back half of the year. That's probably one of the bright spots within Consumer, and that continues to be an end market that is sort of more healthy relative to some of the other businesses.

因此，您不僅看到第二季度收入略有上升，而且該業務的利潤率也有相對明顯的上升，我們預計這一情況將在今年下半年繼續取得進展。這可能是消費者領域的亮點之一，並且相對於其他一些業務而言，這仍然是一個更加健康的終端市場。

Yes. Just add on that, yes, that Lightspeed, the name of the platform, we migrated it, too. But it was -- that did have a significant impact on funnel throughput, funnel performance, conversion rates of our consumers have an immediate bump in marketing efficiency.

是的。只需添加一點，是的，Lightspeed，平台的名稱，我們也遷移了它。但這確實對漏斗吞吐量、漏斗性能和消費者轉化率產生了重大影響，從而立即提高了營銷效率。

But what I'd add on to that, I believe in the next few quarters is going to continue because we needed that new platform conversion to happen. And now we're doing a lot of continued testing and increased funnel optimization, throughput and optimizing result sets for consumers and better matches. And so I think there's a lot of opportunity in the credit card business for us in the coming quarters. A big part of that was that platform migration that needed to happen.

但我要補充的是，我相信在接下來的幾個季度將會繼續下去，因為我們需要進行新的平台轉換。現在，我們正在進行大量的持續測試，並增加了渠道優化、吞吐量和優化結果集，以便為消費者提供更好的匹配。因此，我認為未來幾個季度我們的信用卡業務將有很多機會。其中很大一部分是需要進行的平台遷移。

Yes. I would only add, Lightspeed is a great example of us having a team getting product right, getting that up and running. That helps our existing credit card click-out business. And you've mentioned TreeQual, I would say, we've been talking about TreeQual and [being with] TreeQual for a long time, which, I would say, is something that we're all very mindful of.

是的。我只想補充一點，Lightspeed 是一個很好的例子，我們有一個團隊來正確地生產產品、啟動並運行它。這有助於我們現有的信用卡點擊業務。你提到了 TreeQual，我想說，我們已經談論 TreeQual 和 [與] TreeQual 合作很長時間了，我想說，這是我們都非常關注的事情。

The flip side of that is we've made some pivots in the product in how we're working with lenders, and so we need to say we expect that to bear fruit shortly or soon in the future, but we're getting more lender receptivity to it. And then the biggest challenge you find is that we need the lenders work with those two.

另一方面，我們在與貸方合作的方式上對產品進行了一些調整，因此我們需要說，我們預計這將在不久或不久的將來取得成果，但我們正在獲得更多的貸方對它的接受度。然後你發現的最大挑戰是我們需要貸款人與這兩家公司合作。

So a little bit of a catch '22 that you got to go to major card issuers, get them to work on a tech project with you, when you're also a small business for them, but we're slogging and having some success. Now when that hits, we expect it to have a big impact that, that will be a onetime event whenever we get it done.

因此，有一點需要注意的是，你必須去找主要的發卡機構，讓他們與你一起開發一個技術項目，而你對他們來說也是一家小企業，但我們正在努力並取得了一些成功。現在，當它發生時，我們預計它會產生巨大的影響，無論何時我們完成它，這都將是一次性事件。

Our next question comes from Chris Kennedy from William Blair.

我們的下一個問題來自威廉·布萊爾的克里斯·肯尼迪。

Just wanted to follow up on the efforts to improve the conversion rates. Doug, you just mentioned a few of them. But can you just dive a little bit more into the initiatives and how they're going relative to your expectations?

只是想跟進提高轉化率的努力。道格，你剛剛提到了其中的一些。但您能否更深入地了解這些舉措以及它們相對於您的期望的進展情況？

So I'm mindful of competitive things here, so let me hit it overall. Obviously, we talked about TreeQual. So if you look at a conversion funnel and a performance marketing company, you have to see where the biggest leak is, and then you go try to plug the leak. And credit cards, it's approval rate. And that's because we don't gather a lot of your information and we pick you out, and there's a pretty [overt] approval rate on those. .

所以我很注意這裡的競爭性的事情，所以讓我總體來說吧。顯然，我們談論了 TreeQual。因此，如果您查看轉化漏斗和績效營銷公司，您必須找出最大的漏洞在哪裡，然後嘗試堵住漏洞。還有信用卡，就是批准率。那是因為我們沒有收集您的大量信息，而是將您挑選出來，並且這些信息的支持率相當高。 。

You also have in that business, which all of the competitors have the fact that people are seeking for credit -- seeking credit. So you have to get more preapproved data so that you're making offers to consumers that they're going to get, and I just talked about that one.

在這個行業中，所有競爭對手都有這樣一個事實：人們都在尋求信用——尋求信用。因此，你必須獲得更多預先批准的數據，以便向消費者提供他們將獲得的優惠，我剛剛談到了這一點。

The other series of teams are working on close rates from [lead] to fund in the -- mostly in the mortgage space. And there, what you're doing is, for those of you who might be new, you think about the act of getting our home loan or getting a small business loan, that doesn't happen in one sitting. And we need to enhance our CRM capabilities and be more interactive with the lenders, so that you're not just getting a onetime offer from LendingTree and then getting barraged with phone calls.

其他系列的團隊正在研究從[領先]到資金的接近利率——主要是在抵押貸款領域。在那裡，你正在做的是，對於那些可能是新手的人來說，你會想到獲得我們的住房貸款或獲得小企業貸款的行為，這不會一次性發生。我們需要增強我們的 CRM 功能並與貸方進行更多互動，這樣您就不會只是從 LendingTree 獲得一次性報價，然後就接到接二連三的電話。

We are working right. The change that we've made in how we're working with lenders is we actually now leverage our lender advisory council to have a smaller group of lenders that works with us on a test basis in a managed marketplace. It's very, very collaborative and co-creating with them. So I expect that to bear fruit.

我們工作得很好。我們在與貸方合作方式上所做的改變是，我們現在實際上利用我們的貸方諮詢委員會來擁有一小部分貸方，在託管​​市場中與我們進行測試合作。與他們的合作非常非常密切，共同創造。所以我希望這能夠取得成果。

Now, the good news about these is while we're evaluating every quarter and we're pivoting, the last one I would say is My LendingTree, which is important. And there, it's about improving engagement and our offers platform so that we can give you much more personalized alerts. And that work is underway.

現在，關於這些的好消息是，當我們每個季度進行評估並進行調整時，我要說的最後一個是“我的 LendingTree”，這很重要。在那裡，它是關於提高參與度和我們的報價平台，以便我們可以為您提供更加個性化的提醒。這項工作正在進行中。

Underlying a lot of this, the technical change that we have and what we call our offers platform, so today, if you're making changes to the pages where you're seeing your offers and interacting with lenders, it's very rigid. We're moving that very shortly to a system that we've been working on for almost about a year, I'd say, that's going to make that much more flexible.

在這一切的基礎上，我們所進行的技術變革以及我們所說的報價平台，因此，今天，如果您對查看報價並與貸方互動的頁面進行更改，那麼它是非常嚴格的。我們很快就會將其轉移到我們已經開發了近一年的系統中，我想說，這將使其更加靈活。

And the last thing I'd say about all of this, we don't need them to pay off tomorrow. Any one of these hits would have a change when it gets -- when it works. And if they don't work, as Trent said, we got some -- we got a lot of discretionary money that we're spending. And as things like Lightspeed get done, then we can shift those resources to work on something else.

關於這一切我要說的最後一件事是，我們不需要它們明天就得到回報。這些熱門作品中的任何一個，當它發揮作用時，都會發生變化。如果它們不起作用，正如特倫特所說，我們會得到一些——我們有很多可自由支配的錢可以花。當像 Lightspeed 這樣的事情完成後，我們就可以將這些資源轉移到其他事情上。

Got it. Very helpful. And then just a follow-up to that, what type of time frame are you kind of envisioning in order to make that ultimate decision whether they're working or not?

知道了。很有幫助。接下來，您設想什麼類型的時間框架才能做出最終決定，無論他們是否在工作？

Yes. So in our new -- in the way we're doing product now, as I said, we've got a dedicated cross-functional teams on anything that we deem a tech product initiative. And they have quarterly OKRs against each one of them. And I'll tell you one of the other things that -- and they -- not everybody hits them every quarter, but you go through a product review process, and we are making adjustments every quarter.

是的。因此，正如我所說，在我們現在做產品的新方式中，我們有一個專門的跨職能團隊來處理我們認為是技術產品計劃的任何事情。他們每個人都有季度 OKR。我會告訴你另外一件事——並不是每個人每個季度都會遇到這些問題，但你會經歷一個產品審查流程，我們每個季度都會進行調整。

Sometimes it's keep going, you're hitting your marks. Sometimes it's we need you to raise the bar. Sometimes it's we need you to -- we're going to shut this thing down. And that's just the way you do it with -- we need LendingTree to be a great product and tech organization. And with our leadership now, Scott Totman and [Owen], I feel like we've really got it.

有時候，只要繼續前進，你就會達到目標。有時我們需要您提高標準。有時我們需要你——我們要關閉這件事。這就是你要做的事情——我們需要 LendingTree 成為一個出色的產品和技術組織。現在，在斯科特·托特曼和歐文的領導下，我覺得我們真的做到了。

Yes. And I just throw on one specific, the personal loans offers platform, which is we've seen the success on credit cards, and we're now all hands on deck. We know there's a lot of opportunity in personal loans on getting that offers platform converted over, which should happen sooner rather than later.

是的。我只想談一個具體的問題，即個人貸款提供平台，我們已經看到了信用卡方面的成功，現在我們已經全力以赴。我們知道，個人貸款中有很多機會可以轉換該優惠平台，這應該儘早發生。

And honestly, as we look at it, since those are all essentially preapproved offers that were -- the consumers to having better algorithms for better matches and making sure like the top listings have the highest potential for a consumer getting a funded loan, there's a lot of good work we can do there that will have an immediate and iterative cost only continually improving impact on more revenue per consumer and at the same time, giving them better matches so they're getting funded loans in an easier method.

老實說，正如我們所看到的，由於這些本質上都是預先批准的優惠，即消費者擁有更好的算法來實現更好的匹配，並確保像頂級列表一樣，消費者獲得融資貸款的潛力最大，所以有一個我們可以在那裡做很多好的工作，這些工作將產生直接和迭代的成本，只會不斷改善對每個消費者更多收入的影響，同時為他們提供更好的匹配，以便他們以更簡單的方式獲得融資貸款。

So I mean, we're pretty excited that some of the stuff can have impacts sooner rather than later.

所以我的意思是，我們非常興奮，因為有些東西遲早會產生影響。

Our next question comes from Rob Wildhack.

我們的下一個問題來自 Rob Wildhack。

On Home, do you have a number in mind for how far mortgage rates would have to come down, maybe it's to 5% or 4.5% before there's a healthy refinance opportunity again?

在 Home 方面，您是否知道抵押貸款利率必須下降多少，也許是 5% 或 4.5%，然後才能再次出現健康的再融資機會？

No, I don't. And I tell you to go look at the MBA forecast. But in almost 30 years of doing this, like they're directionally right and sometimes hard to be precise. But the good news about -- what I will say, though, about refinance is there's actually, I would say, almost always, except at times like this, you do have a decent level of refinance activity.

不，我不。我告訴你去看看 MBA 預測。但在近 30 年的實踐中，他們的方向似乎是正確的，但有時很難精確。但我想說的是，關於再融資的好消息是，我想說，幾乎總是有，除了在這種時候，你確實有相當水平的再融資活動。

You have people who have adjustable rate mortgages coming due. You have people whose credit scores improve. You have people whose values go up, and they want cash out to go do something or pay off other debt. So all we're -- right now, it's just that the borrower benefit to a refinance isn't there.

有些人的可調整利率抵押貸款即將到期。有些人的信用評分有所提高。有些人的價值觀上升了，他們想要現金去做某事或償還其他債務。所以我們現在所要做的只是藉款人無法從再融資中受益。

But like if you go get a mortgage at 7% or you get it at 9% because your credit is not great, when that gets to 6.5, there's savings in it for you. And so I think you just need to start seeing a tick down. But even really a stabilization, I think, would see more refinance business.

但是，就像如果您以 7% 的利率獲得抵押貸款，或者因為您的信用不佳而以 9% 的利率獲得抵押貸款，那麼當信用分數達到 6.5 時，您就可以節省費用。所以我認為你只需要開始看到滴答聲下降。但我認為，即使真正穩定，也會看到更多的再融資業務。

But what I will tell you is, man, we are like storing mortgages that as rates do come down, you've got a lot of refinance business stacked up. And the industry, in general, has gotten more efficient.

但我要告訴你的是，伙計，我們就像儲存抵押貸款一樣，隨著利率確實下降，你就會積累大量的再融資業務。總體而言，該行業變得更加高效。

So I'd expect our throughput to be better because technology improvements are happening in the background as everybody is trying to be as efficient as they can. And those efficiencies are going to stick when the market gets -- starts to grow. Some of the top line mortgage [economics] right now are you looking for a pretty healthy mortgage industry next year.

因此，我希望我們的吞吐量會更好，因為技術改進是在後台發生的，因為每個人都在努力提高效率。當市場開始增長時，這些效率將會持續下去。目前一些最重要的抵押貸款[經濟學]正在尋找明年一個相當健康的抵押貸款行業。

Got it. And then maybe one more for Scott. You mentioned earlier, Insurance carriers getting profitable towards year-end, resetting budgets into '24. Can we interpret that as a base case kind of outlook here, it takes carriers another 3 to 6 months before they can start thinking about growth again?

知道了。也許斯科特還會再有一個。您之前提到，保險公司將在年底前實現盈利，並將預算重置為 24 年。我們是否可以將其解釋為一種基本情況的前景，運營商還需要 3 到 6 個月的時間才能再次開始考慮增長？

Yes. I would say, that's a base case scenario. The -- I think if I'm being completely honest, a lot of the carriers have pretty much written off '23, and they're in survival mode in '23. I mean I feel like there have been stabilization. I want to be very cautious of saying it's completely stable at this point.

是的。我想說，這是一個基本情況。 - 我認為如果我完全誠實的話，很多運營商幾乎都在 23 年註銷了，他們在 23 年處於生存模式。我的意思是我覺得已經穩定下來了。我想非常謹慎地說它目前已經完全穩定了。

But I mean, I where I sit today, I feel like kind of June as a low point. We've even had July, we're better than June, which is positive, and there are a number of carriers and big consumer name brands that have increased budgets with us in July, not dramatically, but that's just a good sign that they're not continuing to cut. They feel like there's a stabilization.

但我的意思是，我今天坐的地方，我感覺六月是一個低谷。我們甚至已經度過了 7 月，我們比 6 月更好，這是積極的，並且有許多運營商和大型消費品牌在 7 月增加了我們的預算，雖然不是很大，但這只是一個好跡象，表明他們不會繼續削減。他們感覺已經穩定下來了。

But I think when you're talking about significant major increases in marketing budget, it is probably going to happen at the turn of the year when our annual budget cycles shift to a new calendar year.

但我認為，當您談論營銷預算的大幅增長時，它可能會在歲末年初發生，屆時我們的年度預算週期將轉移到新的日曆年。

And our final question comes from Mike Grondahl from Northland.

我們的最後一個問題來自北國的邁克·格隆達爾。

Doug, you mentioned some lenders pulled back in 3Q or that's what you're seeing. Which verticals did they pull back the most? Which ones did they pull back the least?

道格，您提到一些貸方在第三季度退出，或者這就是您所看到的。他們對哪些垂直領域的撤退幅度最大？他們撤回的最少的是哪些？

So first off, we weren't talking at 3Q, we were talking about the end of Q2. And Trent, do you want to take -- most in lease, I would say, in mortgage, a select number of lenders who pulled back by reducing the price they're willing to pay.

首先，我們不是在談論第三季度，而是在談論第二季度末。特倫特，你想接受嗎——我想說，大部分是在租賃中，在抵押貸款中，一些精選的貸款人通過降低他們願意支付的價格而退出。

So remember, lenders set bids in LendingTree [as we said in] Google. And that obviously impacts the revenue profile. And in personal loans, the "pullback" isn't like, "I don't want less volume," it's "I need a tighter credit box to be able to sell those loans." In terms of relative size, Trent, any...

所以請記住，貸方在 LendingTree 中設置出價（正如我們在 Google 中所說）。這顯然會影響收入狀況。在個人貸款中，“撤回”並不是“我不想要減少數量”，而是“我需要一個更嚴格的信貸箱才能出售這些貸款”。就相對大小而言，特倫特，任何......

Yes. Order of magnitude, I'd say, some of the price concessions or bid reductions that we've seen in Home are probably the most pronounced. We've seen a handful of smaller ones in personal loans, [mortgages] in small business.

是的。我想說的是，我們在 Home 中看到的一些價格優惠或降價可能是最明顯的。我們在個人貸款、小企業[抵押貸款]方面看到了一些較小的貸款。

Got it. And then Trent, have you disclosed or kind of put brackets around what the discretionary spend bucket is in '23?

知道了。然後，特倫特，您是否披露過或在括號中註明了 23 年的可自由支配支出範圍？

No, but not yet.

不，但還沒有。

It's in the ZIP code of 5% to 10% of the cost structure. .

它在郵政編碼中佔成本結構的 5% 到 10%。 。

I'm showing no further questions at this time. I'd now like to turn the conference back to Doug Lebda, CEO. Please go ahead.

我目前沒有提出任何進一步的問題。現在我想把會議轉回首席執行官道格·萊布達 (Doug Lebda) 主持。請繼續。

Thank you all very much for -- again for being here today. Thank you very much for your questions. I just want to reassure shareholders that while I know this has been a long dark winter during the COVID season, I want you to know that we get the situation, and we are on it, and we are making changes at all levels, as hopefully, you can see, to address it.

再次非常感謝大家今天來到這裡。非常感謝您的提問。我只是想向股東保證，雖然我知道在新冠疫情期間這是一個漫長黑暗的冬天，但我想讓你們知道我們已經了解了情況，我們正在採取行動，我們正在各個層面做出改變，希望如此，你可以看到，解決這個問題。

Our company is now smaller, we're leaner, we're faster, and we're more in person that's making us operate more effectively. We are incredibly mindful of our balance sheet, not only as a management team, but I can also tell you, as all of us being shareholders and me being a significant shareholder, we are in that boat with you, and we are going to manage that and improve our financial profile and make sure that, that can be handled.

我們的公司現在更小、更精簡、更快、更人性化，這使我們的運營更加有效。我們不僅作為管理團隊，而且非常關注我們的資產負債表，而且我還可以告訴您，由於我們所有人都是股東，而我是重要股東，我們與您同舟共濟，我們將管理並改善我們的財務狀況並確保可以處理該問題。

We believe our market position is very solid. As one of the leaders in this space, it is much harder on smaller marketplaces than it is on us. And so we continue to improve our market position, hopefully, consolidate share the sharper and higher margin with a better margin profile, so we're -- that we can capture any incremental revenue improvement with much more of it falling to the bottom line.

我們相信我們的市場地位非常穩固。作為這個領域的領導者之一，較小的市場比我們要困難得多。因此，我們繼續改善我們的市場地位，希望能夠以更好的利潤狀況來鞏固份額，提高利潤率，這樣我們就可以抓住任何增量收入的改善，而其中更多的收入會下降到底線。

We're going to focus this quarter on just continuing to provide great value for our clients, as Scott hit on, across all of our segments. That is the key on one side of the marketplace. And on the other, we talked about the initiatives underway to improve the relationship with our customers. Those are hard problems to solve, but we are making progress.

正如斯科特所言，本季度我們的重點是繼續為我們所有細分市場的客戶提供巨大價值。這是市場一方面的關鍵。另一方面，我們討論了正在採取的改善與客戶關係的舉措。這些都是很難解決的問題，但我們正在取得進展。

Thank you very much for your belief in our company, and we look forward to talking to you next quarter.

非常感謝您對我們公司的信任，我們期待下個季度與您交談。

Thank you. This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

謝謝。今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連接。