Turkcell Iletisim Hizmetleri AS (TKC) 2023 Q2 法說會逐字稿

I'm Constantino, your chorus call operator. Welcome, and thank you for joining the Turkcell's conference call and live webcast to present and discuss the Turkcell Second Quarter 2023 Financial Results Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) The conference is being recorded. (Operator Instructions)

我是康斯坦丁諾，你們的合唱接線員。歡迎並感謝您參加 Turkcell 的電話會議和網絡直播，介紹和討論 Turkcell 2023 年第二季度財務業績電話會議。 （操作員指示）會議正在錄製。 （操作員說明）

At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Ali Serdar Yagci, Investor Relations and Corporate Finance Director. Mr. Yagci, you may now proceed.

現在，我想將會議交給投資者關係和企業財務總監 Ali Serdar Yagci 先生。 Yagci 先生，您現在可以繼續了。

Thank you, Constantinos. Hi, everyone. Welcome to Turkcell's Second Quarter 2023 Results Call. Today, our CEO, Mr. Murat Erkan; and acting CFO, Mr. Kamil Kalyon, will be delivering a brief presentation, covering operational and financial results, which will be followed by Q&A. Before we kick off, I'd like to kindly remind you to review our safe harbor statement placed at the end of the presentation.

謝謝你，康斯坦丁。大家好。歡迎參加 Turkcell 2023 年第二季度業績電話會議。今天，我們的首席執行官 Murat Erkan 先生；代理首席財務官卡米爾·卡利恩 (Kamil Kalyon) 先生將發表簡短的演講，內容涉及運營和財務業績，隨後將進行問答。在我們開始之前，我想提醒您查看演示文稿末尾的安全港聲明。

Now I'm handing over to Mr. Erkan.

現在我把工作交給埃爾坎先生。

Thank you, Serdar. Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining us. We delivered outstanding results in the second quarter. Our determined inflation and pricing strategy plays an instrumental role in delivering and ever accelerating performance. Outpacing the inflation, our revenue growth ramped up to 74% on a record ARPU growth and expanding subscriber base. .

謝謝你，瑟達爾。大家好。感謝您加入我們。我們在第二季度取得了出色的業績。我們堅定的通脹和定價策略在交付和不斷加速業績方面發揮著重要作用。由於創紀錄的 ARPU 增長和不斷擴大的用戶群，我們的收入增長超過了通貨膨脹率，達到 74%。 。

Strategic focus area also supported top line growth as always. On the profitability side, our EBITDA almost doubled, reaching TRY 9.5 billion, driven mostly by strong top line growth and reduced energy prices in Q2. We achieved a remarkable 44% EBITDA margin. This strong operational performance, coupled with dynamic and prudent risk management enabled a solid net profit of TRY 3.2 billion on a 70% year-on-year rise. Considering these results, we further increased our full year guidance.

戰略重點領域也一如既往地支持營收增長。在盈利能力方面，我們的 EBITDA 幾乎翻了一番，達到 95 億土耳其里拉，這主要得益於第二季度強勁的營收增長和能源價格下降。我們的 EBITDA 利潤率高達 44%，令人矚目。強勁的運營業績，加上動態審慎的風險管理，實現淨利潤 32 億土耳其里拉，同比增長 70%。考慮到這些結果，我們進一步提高了全年指導。

Next slide. Let's take a closer look at our mobile operational performance. Our focus on postpaid subscriber yielded a substantial gain of 404,000 subscribers in Q2, tapping up 70% postpaid share of the mobile base. Following the gloomy Q1, we resumed price adjustment in April. And as the competitors followed us, overall price level escalated in a market. However, temporary competitive offers were absorbed in the market, triggering an increase in MNP volume.

下一張幻燈片。讓我們仔細看看我們的移動運營績效。我們對後付費用戶的關注使第二季度用戶數量大幅增長，達到 404,000 名，佔據了移動用戶群 70% 的後付費份額。經歷了第一季度的低迷之後，我們在四月份恢復了價格調整。隨著競爭對手追隨我們，市場的整體價格水平不斷上升。然而，臨時的競爭性報價被市場吸收，引發了 MNP 交易量的增加。

Rising acquisition price level and alternative data solution for tourists impacted prepaid subscribers. The inflation figure for July indicates a surge in inflation during the second half of the year. Yet we are committed to price adjustments. Accordingly, we raised our prices in August. As anticipated, the ripple effect of preceding price adjustment and intact upsell efforts, propel a remarkable 84% acceleration in mobile ARPU. The ARPU versus CPI spread widened further. Despite a slight increase due to the line closure deferral from Q1, our mobile churn rate stood at 1.9%.

不斷上升的收購價格水平和針對遊客的替代數據解決方案影響了預付費用戶。 7月份的通脹數據表明下半年通脹將大幅上升。但我們仍致力於價格調整。因此，我們在八月份提高了價格。正如預期的那樣，之前的價格調整和完整的追加銷售努力的連鎖反應推動移動 ARPU 顯著加速 84%。 ARPU 與 CPI 的差距進一步擴大。儘管由於第一季度的線路關閉延遲而略有增加，但我們的移動客戶流失率仍為 1.9%。

Next slide. In the fixed broadband, our focus persist on fiber. Accordingly, we gained 40,000 fiber subscribers in Q2. The IPTV platform, a supportive factor in subscriber retention grew with 35,000 net additions. We achieved 165,000 additional home pass during 2 quarters. We are delighted to exceed our annual target of 300,000 in the first half, benefiting from more favorable FX rates. In line with our fiber expansion, the take-up ratio decreased just below 40%.

下一張幻燈片。在固定寬帶方面，我們的重點仍然是光纖。因此，我們在第二季度獲得了 40,000 名光纖用戶。 IPTV 平台是用戶保留的一個支持因素，淨增人數達到 35,000 人。我們在兩個季度內額外獲得了 165,000 份回家通行證。受益於更優惠的匯率，我們很高興在上半年超過了 300,000 的年度目標。隨著我們的纖維擴張，捲取率下降到略低於 40%。

However, it is fair to expect the rate to remand for the remainder of the year as we aim to monetize this investment. This quarter, residential fiber ARPU grew strongly by 49% yield, surpassing quarterly average annual inflation after a long break, thanks to price adjustment. Longer contract duration and the reluctance of incumbent operator to make price adjustments have been affecting this segment adversely. To mitigate this factor, we have shifted our focus over the past year to offering 12-month contract or contract-free tariffs, resulting in 53% of our fiber customers opting for this plan by June. Lastly, we are pleased to see continued interest in high speed plans. The weight of these packages in the total fiber portfolio has increased by 11 percentage points year-on-year.

然而，由於我們的目標是使這項投資貨幣化，因此可以合理地預期今年剩餘時間內的利率會被退回。本季度，由於價格調整，住宅光纖 ARPU 收益率強勁增長 49%，超過了長期中斷後的季度平均年通脹率。較長的合同期限和現有運營商不願進行價格調整對該細分市場產生了不利影響。為了緩解這一因素，我們在過去一年中將重點轉向提供 12 個月的合同或無合同資費，結果到 6 月份，我們的光纖客戶中有 53% 選擇了該計劃。最後，我們很高興看到人們對高速計劃的持續興趣。這些包裝在總纖維組合中的權重同比增加了11個百分點。

Next slide. On strategic focus areas, let's start with digital services and solutions. The standalone revenue of digital services and solutions grew by 87% year-on-year due to price adjustment and expansion of paid users. We have reached significant milestones in our flagship services, OTT TV services has surpassed the 1 million mark, while the cloud storage service exceeded 2 million users. By surpassing 1 million active users in Pakistan, we further expanded its user base through the partnership with Jazz.

下一張幻燈片。在戰略重點領域，讓我們從數字服務和解決方案開始。數字服務及解決方案的獨立收入同比增長87%，得益於價格調整和付費用戶的擴大。我們的旗艦服務已達到重要里程碑，OTT TV 服務已突破 100 萬大關，雲存儲服務用戶突破 200 萬。通過與 Jazz 的合作，我們在巴基斯坦的活躍用戶已超過 100 萬，進一步擴大了其用戶群。

Our standalone paid user base reached 5.5 million, rising 2% annually. On the other hand, TV+ is intensifying its collaboration with both local and international digital platforms and partnering with leading global studios. Moving on to our next focus area, Digital Business Services constitute 10% of Turkcell revenue, having registered 83 -- 82% year-on-year growth. The main growth drivers were system integration projects, data center and cloud businesses, each doubling their revenues annually. Notably, the backlog from system integration projects has reached TRY 2.9 million.

我們的獨立付費用戶群達到 550 萬，每年增長 2%。另一方面，TV+正在加強與本地和國際數字平台的合作，並與全球領先的工作室合作。轉向我們的下一個重點領域，數字商業服務佔 Turkcell 收入的 10%，同比增長 83% 至 82%。主要增長動力是系統集成項目、數據中心和雲業務，各自的收入每年翻一番。值得注意的是，系統集成項目的積壓已達到 290 萬土耳其里拉。

Next slide. Our third focus is techfin. In the second quarter, Paycell revenue rose 95% year-on-year. Paylater has more than doubled its volume and remained the key driver of Paycell revenues. This growth was supported by increased payment in mobile app stores and expanded user base a volume of ready-to-use limits.

下一張幻燈片。我們的第三個重點是科技金融。第二季度，Paycell收入同比增長95%。 Paylater 的銷量增加了一倍多，仍然是 Paycell 收入的主要驅動力。這一增長得益於移動應用商店付費的增加以及擴大了即用限制數量的用戶群。

Paycell card has also supported this remarkable performance, thanks to increased money transfer and higher card fees. In May, the nationwide joint QR project was launched, which enabled our customers to make payments using Paycell app at any location with QR code. Turning to financial. Its revenue grew by 87% with an expanding loan portfolio and rising interest rates. The loan book reached TRY 4.7 billion on an 88% growth.

由於匯款增加和卡費上漲，Paycell 卡也支持了這一卓越的業績。 5月，全國聯合二維碼項目啟動，客戶可以在任何地點使用Paycell應用程序通過二維碼進行支付。轉向金融。隨著貸款組合的擴大和利率的上升，其收入增長了 87%。貸款總額達到 47 億土耳其里拉，增長 88%。

Next slide. Now international subsidiaries. The Turkcell International segment, which accounts for 10% of the group top line, grew by 48% year-on-year in Q2. Excluding the currency impact, the organic growth was 38%. Thanks to increasing data roaming revenue and also price adjustments, Lifecell revenue in Ukraine rose 36% year-on-year in its local currency, well above the inflation. The EBITDA margin improvement of 1.2 percentage points, was mainly driven by lower interconnection and energy expenses as a percentage of revenue. BeST revenue rose 22% year-on-year in its local currency, comfortably exceeding the inflation.

下一張幻燈片。現為國際子公司。 Turkcell International 業務佔集團營收的 10%，第二季度同比增長 48%。排除匯率影響，有機增長率為 38%。由於數據漫遊收入的增加以及價格調整，Lifecell 在烏克蘭的收入以當地貨幣計算同比增長了 36%，遠高於通貨膨脹率。 EBITDA 利潤率提高了 1.2 個百分點，主要是由於互連和能源費用佔收入的百分比下降。以當地貨幣計算，BeST 收入同比增長 22%，輕鬆超過通脹水平。

The MTR rate revision at 2022 year-end and a disciplined OpEx result in a 20 points margin improvement. Next slide. I would like to end my presentation by sharing our updated guidance for 2023. Taking into consideration our outstanding first half performance, we have revised our revenue growth target to around 71%. EBITDA guidance to around TRY 37 billion, and maintain CapEx intensity at around 22%.

2022 年底的 MTR 費率修訂和嚴格的運營支出導致利潤率提高了 20 個百分點。下一張幻燈片。我想通過分享我們更新的 2023 年指引來結束我的演講。考慮到我們上半年出色的業績，我們將收入增長目標修改為 71% 左右。 EBITDA 指引為 370 億土耳其里拉左右，並將資本支出強度維持在 22% 左右。

I will now leave the floor to our CFO, Mr. Kamil Kalyon.

現在我請我們的首席財務官卡米爾·卡利恩 (Kamil Kalyon) 先生髮言。

Thank you very much, Murat. Now let's dive into our financial results. Our group revenues had an incremental rise of TRY 9.2 billion, corresponding to 74% growth year-on-year. Turkcell Turkey revenues were the main driver of the performance, thanks to expanding subscriber base and solid ARPU growth. Digital services were also supportive on the remarkable performance. Turkcell International revenue grew by 48% lower than overall group due to lower inflation and limited currency depreciation.

非常感謝你，穆拉特。現在讓我們深入了解一下我們的財務業績。我們集團的收入增量增長了 92 億土耳其里拉，同比增長 74%。由於用戶群的擴大和 ARPU 的穩健增長，Turkcell Turkey 的收入是業績的主要推動力。數字服務也為出色的業績提供了支持。由於通脹較低和貨幣貶值有限，Turkcell International 的收入增長比整個集團低 48%。

Techfin business grew by year-on-year with an incremental rise of TRY 383 million as evidenced by the traction in financial services companies, Paycell and Financell. Next slide, please. Now let's look at our EBITDA performance. Turkcell Group EBITDA reached TRY 9.5 billion, reflecting on the solid revenue growth. In Q2, EBITDA margin expanded by 3.7%. Increase in employee expenses was offset by a decrease in interconnection expenses, cost of goods sold and energy costs as a percentage of the revenue.

Techfin 業務同比增長，增量達 3.83 億土耳其里拉，金融服務公司 Paycell 和 Financell 的吸引力就證明了這一點。請下一張幻燈片。現在讓我們看看我們的 EBITDA 表現。 Turkcell 集團 EBITDA 達到 95 億土耳其里拉，反映了穩健的收入增長。第二季度，EBITDA 利潤率擴大了 3.7%。員工費用的增加被互連費用、銷售成本和能源成本佔收入百分比的下降所抵消。

Of note, 15% reduction in the electricity prices, which was introduced for industrial consumers in April supports the margin. Also, we shall inform you that following the minimum wage increase in July, we have also increased our rates by around 37%, which will be weighing on our financials starting from Q3.

值得注意的是，4 月份針對工業消費者推出的 15% 電價下調支撐了利潤率。此外，我們還應通知您，繼 7 月份提高最低工資標准後，我們​​的工資也提高了約 37%，這將從第三季度開始對我們的財務狀況造成壓力。

Next slide, please. Let's take a closer look at our CapEx management. In second quarter, we kept implementing our disciplined CapEx plan, which brings our last 12-month CapEx intensity ratio to 20.7%. Mobile and fixed investments in total accounts for more than 70% of the total CapEx. Mobile CapEx investments had a higher share in total CapEx compared to last year as we had to make around TRY 420 million one-off CapEx due to earthquake. However, we managed to keep single-digit intensity. On the fixed side, even though we slightly exceed our annual target, it was lower than previous years. As we have mentioned before, this year, we are mostly focused on monetizing our fixed investments for the rest of the year.

請下一張幻燈片。讓我們仔細看看我們的資本支出管理。第二季度，我們繼續實施嚴格的資本支出計劃，這使我們過去 12 個月的資本支出強度比率達到 20.7%。移動和固定投資合計佔資本支出總額的 70% 以上。與去年相比，移動資本支出在資本支出總額中所佔份額更高，因為地震導致我們不得不一次性支出約 4.2 億土耳其里拉。然而，我們設法保持了個位數的強度。固定方面，儘管我們略超年度目標，但低於往年。正如我們之前提到的，今年，我們主要關註今年剩餘時間的固定投資貨幣化。

Next slide, please. Our cash position increased by TRY 7.8 billion in second quarter. FX movements had an impact of TRY 6.2 billion in the cash position. Our gross debt position grew by TRY 18.7 billion in Q2. The increase in gross debt is mainly due to TRY 14.8 billion currency depreciation. We ended the quarter with a net debt position of TRY 28.2 billion. Thanks to the strong EBITDA generation, our net leverage remains around 1x and excluding Financell, it is 0.8x. The remaining FX debt service is around USD 156 million this year, which is manageable given the cash position and committed credit lines. The majority of our cash continues to remain in hard currencies. Excluding FX swaps, 58% of our cash is in U.S. dollars and 10% in euros.

請下一張幻燈片。第二季度我們的現金頭寸增加了 78 億土耳其里拉。外匯波動對現金頭寸產生了 62 億土耳其里拉的影響。第二季度我們的總債務頭寸增加了 187 億土耳其里拉。總債務增加主要是由於148億土耳其里拉的貨幣貶值。本季度結束時，我們的淨債務頭寸為 282 億土耳其里拉。由於強勁的 EBITDA 生成，我們的淨槓桿率保持在 1 倍左右，不包括 Financell，為 0.8 倍。今年剩餘的外匯債務還本付息約為 1.56 億美元，考慮到現金頭寸和承諾的信貸額度，這一數字是可控的。我們的大部分現金仍然以硬通貨形式存在。不包括外匯掉期，我們 58% 的現金為美元，10% 為歐元。

Next slide, please. Lastly, I will go into the management of foreign currency risk in Q2. We have continued to keep majority of our cash in FX and also utilize hedging instruments as part of our prudent financial risk management approach. Looking at the FX position composition, we had USD 1.9 billion equivalent of FX financial liabilities on our balance sheet. On the Fed side, we had USD 1.4 billion equivalent, FX financial assets and USD 645 million derivative portfolio, mainly comprised of proxy hedge, namely futures and forwards.

請下一張幻燈片。最後，我想談談第二季度的外匯風險管理。我們繼續將大部分現金保留在外匯中，並利用對沖工具作為我們審慎的金融風險管理方法的一部分。從外匯頭寸構成來看，我們的資產負債表上有19億美元等值的外匯金融負債。在美聯儲方面，我們擁有14億美元等值的外匯金融資產和6.45億美元的衍生品投資組合，主要由代理對沖，即期貨和遠期組成。

Overall, we ended up with a long FX position USD 84 million, which is within our neutral FX position definition.

總體而言，我們最終獲得了 8400 萬美元的多頭外匯頭寸，這在我們的中性外匯頭寸定義範圍內。

This concludes our presentation, and we can now open the line for questions. Thank you.

我們的演講到此結束，現在我們可以開始提問了。謝謝。

(Operator Instructions) The first question is from the line of Mandaci Ece with Unlu Securities.

（操作員說明） 第一個問題來自 Unlu Securities 的 Mandaci Ece。

Congratulations on the strong results. I have a couple of questions on your guidance and potential ARPU growth going forward. The first is about the subscriber additions in the mobile side. We are seeing a slower increase compared to previous years or previous quarters. So is that stable performance will be sustainable for the second half? How would you think about or guide about the subscriber addition?

祝賀取得了優異的成績。我對您的指導和未來 ARPU 的潛在增長有幾個問題。第一個是關於移動端的用戶添加。與前幾年或前幾個季度相比，我們看到增長速度較慢。那麼下半年這種穩定的表現能否持續？您如何看待或指導訂閱者的增加？

The second question is about the mobile ARPU growth. we have seen a significant recovery. And was there any price adjustment on the mobile? Or was it just fixed side as of August. So should we think above 90% ARPU level or more normalized level given the high base of last year for the second half, particularly on mobile ARPU?

第二個問題是關於移動ARPU的增長。我們看到了顯著的複蘇。手機價格有調整嗎？或者是從八月份開始就已經固定了。那麼，考慮到去年下半年的高基數，特別是移動 ARPU，我們是否應該認為 ARPU 水平高於 90% 或更正常的水平？

And thirdly, I saw that you have upgraded your guidance for full year. On the EBITDA margin side, I think that you are a bit more cautious regarding the EBITDA margin performance for the second half, is it due to expectation of higher cost inflation because you're also making price adjustments? Could you please provide some more color about these questions.

第三，我看到你們升級了全年指導。在 EBITDA 利潤率方面，我認為你們對下半年的 EBITDA 利潤率表現更加謹慎，是否是由於你們也在進行價格調整而導致成本通脹上升的預期？您能否對這些問題提供更多的信息。

First of all, regarding subscriber growth and subscriber growth target. In the mobile segment, we experienced net add of 165,000 subscribers in the second quarter. This is supported by the seasonality effect, which is lower than the normal trend. Essentially, 404,000 net additions in postpaid was partially offset by the net loss in the prepaid segment. Rising new acquisition price cellular and alternative data solution for tourists, particularly impacted the price sensitivity prepaid subscriber.

首先，關於用戶增長和用戶增長目標。在移動領域，第二季度用戶淨增 165,000 名。這得到了季節性效應的支持，該效應低於正常趨勢。本質上，後付費業務淨增加 404,000 個部分被預付費業務淨虧損所抵消。為遊客提供的新蜂窩和替代數據解決方案的收購價格不斷上漲，尤其影響了對價格敏感的預付費用戶。

However, we believe that this alternative solution could pose security risk. On the fiber and IPTV side, net subscriber add continuous as usual, supported by Meta. And also for this year, we expect a net add of around 1 million subscribers as well. Regarding second question, mobile ARPU growth and price increase. We did increase for the mobile -- during August, mobile and fixed. They are not in the same time, but we increased our price during August. And we will closely follow the inflation.

然而，我們認為這種替代解決方案可能會帶來安全風險。在光纖和IPTV方面，網絡用戶照常連續添加，由Meta支持。同樣，我們預計今年的訂戶數量也將淨增約 100 萬。關於第二個問題，移動ARPU增長和價格上漲。我們確實增加了移動設備——在八月份，移動設備和固定設備。它們不在同一時間，但我們在八月份提高了價格。我們將密切關注通脹情況。

So we -- as everybody knows, our strategy is based on inflation pricing. So we're going to closely follow the inflation. And during the inflation increase, we're going to increase our price. For the EBITDA guidance, I think this is mainly -- but there are 2 reasons, actually. One of them, in the first half, the energy price decrease, so it has decreased 15%, I believe, in April.

所以，眾所周知，我們的策略是基於通脹定價。因此，我們將密切關注通貨膨脹。在通貨膨脹加劇期間，我們將提高價格。對於 EBITDA 指導，我認為這主要是——但實際上有兩個原因。其中之一是，上半年能源價格下降，所以我相信四月份已經下降了15%。

So for the next half, we put some expectation on the price increase for the energy price. The second thing is because of the inflation for the employee salary, we had to increase our employee salary in July. So this is going to impact also second half EBITDA for the employee salary increase as well. So these are the things that makes us a little bit cautious. But obviously, we're going to follow up closely to recover the EBITDA, but -- it's going to be around 40% level anyway.

所以下半年我們對能源價格的上漲有一定的預期。第二件事是因為員工工資上漲，我們不得不在7月份增加員工工資。因此，這也將影響下半年員工加薪的 EBITDA。所以這些事情讓我們有點謹慎。但顯然，我們將密切跟進以恢復 EBITDA，但是——無論如何，它都會達到 40% 左右的水平。

(Operator Instructions) The next question is from the line of Demirtas Cemal with Ata Invest.

（操作員說明）下一個問題來自 Ata Invest 的 Demirtas Cemal。

My question is about the financial expense side. When we look into details, we see significant increase in financial expenses. And as far as you don't have very big long -- short FX position. You have some net debt position. And even if we come up with the FX changes, from first quarter to second quarter, and we multiplied by your net debt position, we come up with TRY 10 billion financial expense.

我的問題是關於財務費用方面的。細看細節，我們發現財務費用大幅增加。只要您沒有很大的多頭-空頭外匯頭寸。您有一些淨債務頭寸。即使我們得出從第一季度到第二季度的匯率變化，並乘以您的淨債務頭寸，我們也會得出 100 億土耳其里拉的財務費用。

Could you give us more detail, how should we approach to your financial expense side? Because your EBITDA is strong, is good and your guidance is revised that. And the FX impact is possibly on that numbers also. So what's the -- how should we think when we try to reach the bottom line because EBITDA is strong but huge financial expense. So if you didn't hedge, what would be the result, I would like to understand the effect of all those hedges on your bottom line. So how does it save you -- and how did it save you? If you didn't hedge what would happen in second quarter? If you have any just color on that.

您能否給我們提供更多詳細信息，我們應該如何處理您的財務費用方面？因為您的 EBITDA 強勁、良好，並且您的指導對此進行了修改。外匯影響也可能對這些數字產生影響。那麼，當我們試圖達到底線時，我們應該如何思考，因為 EBITDA 強勁，但財務費用巨大。因此，如果你不進行對沖，會產生什麼結果，我想了解所有這些對沖對你的底線的影響。那麼它是如何拯救你的——它是如何拯救你的呢？如果不進行對沖，第二季度會發生什麼？如果你有任何公正的顏色。

Thank you very much, Cemal, for the question. As you know, following the sharp currency movement in the fourth quarter of 2021, strike level was some of the call options that we hope -- we had sold as part of our participation in currency swaps well exceeded. Consequently, in order to maintain the particulars of our hedging portfolio, we opted for short-term derivative instruments as the current market conditions have not been idle for the long term.

非常感謝杰馬爾提出的問題。如您所知，繼 2021 年第四季度貨幣大幅波動之後，我們希望的一些看漲期權的執行水平是——作為我們參與貨幣互換的一部分，我們已經賣出了遠遠超過的看漲期權。因此，為了保持對沖投資組合的細節，我們選擇了短期衍生工具，因為當前的市場狀況並沒有長期閒置。

We have a net long FX position in the amount of USD 84 million at the end of the second quarter, as you say, which is in line with our mutual position definition. The hedging cost of short-term instruments have normalized after the elections but we saw an increase in the FX rates, unfortunately. According to the majority of our FX gain has arisen from the increase in the FX rate, which offset the loss arising from the valuation of our short-term derivative contracts due to the normalization of the TL interest rate curve.

正如您所說，截至第二季度末，我們的淨多頭外匯頭寸為 8400 萬美元，這符合我們的共同頭寸定義。選舉後，短期工具的對沖成本已正常化，但不幸的是，我們看到外匯匯率有所上升。根據我們的大部分外匯收益來自外匯匯率的上漲，這抵消了由於TL利率曲線正常化而導致我們的短期衍生品合約估值所產生的損失。

Despite this negative impact from the interest rate curve, our derivative portfolio printed a positive M2M valuation which helped us to keep our FX loss limited. Going forward, the movement of swap curve will also have an impact on FX gain loss. However, we aim to stick around our FX-neutral definition as we declared previously, plus or minus USD 200 million. I should also note that we continue to evaluate market conditions. If we can find favorable conditions, we might consider restructuring our portfolio.

儘管受到利率曲線的負面影響，我們的衍生品投資組合仍實現了積極的 M2M 估值，這有助於我們將外匯損失限制在有限範圍內。展望未來，掉期曲線的變動也將對外匯收益損失產生影響。然而，我們的目標是堅持我們之前宣布的外匯中性定義，上下浮動 2 億美元。我還應該指出，我們將繼續評估市場狀況。如果我們能找到有利的條件，我們可能會考慮重組我們的投資組合。

So in the third quarter, you're going to use the similar instruments. And if you assume that the currency will be more stable, should we also assume your EBITDA will remain high and your financial expense will go down, is it the model we can take?

因此，在第三季度，您將使用類似的工具。如果你假設貨幣會更加穩定，我們是否也應該假設你的 EBITDA 會保持高位，而你的財務費用會下降，這是我們可以採用的模型嗎？

Yes, might be, but it depends on the economy management interest policy. If the interest is -- especially currently, the interest rates for Turkish lira loans are very high, as you know. It might go -- it might be going higher in the next term. If the interest expenses increase like this way, maybe we can wait a kind of extra additional financial finance interest expenses.

是的，可能是，但這取決於經濟管理利率政策。如果利息 - 特別是目前，土耳其里拉貸款的利率非常高，如您所知。它可能會在下個學期走高。如果利息支出這樣增加，也許我們可以等待一種額外的額外金融利息支出。

Okay. And as a follow-up question, rather on the operation side, we see the prices are increasing. And when we look at competitors, they are also -- the increasing the prices to just match the increase in costs. How do you see the third quarter outlook? You revised your guidance, but how do you see from your side about the pricing, and at least also the additions, subscriber additions. What could be the trends for the -- third question. And one other question about the strategic perspective, both Turk Telekom and Turkcell are like controlled by the Wealth Fund.

好的。作為一個後續問題，在運營方面，我們看到價格正在上漲。當我們觀察競爭對手時，他們也在提高價格以適應成本的增加。您如何看待第三季度的前景？您修改了指導意見，但您如何看待定價，至少還有新增內容、訂閱者新增內容。第三個問題的趨勢可能是什麼。還有一個關於戰略角度的問題，土耳其電信和土耳其細胞都像是由財富基金控制的。

And at some point, there is 5G issue, there's a license in Turk Telekom. These are all on the -- possibly on the agenda. And as far as we know, in the past, before finding a solution to 5G issues or others, licensing of Turk Telekom would be also linked to that about the full regulatory system. At least from Turkcell perspective, what should we expect in the regulatory environment for the next 1 year? Could we expect -- and already the elections are completed. So what should be the issues going forward for telecom sector also for your side?

在某些時候，出現 5G 問題，土耳其電信有許可證。這些都在——可能在議程上。據我們所知，過去，在找到5G問題或其他問題的解決方案之前，土耳其電信的許可也會與完整的監管體系掛鉤。至少從 Turkcell 的角度來看，我們對未來一年的監管環境應該有何期待？我們能否期待——選舉已經完成了。那麼對於您而言，電信行業未來應該面臨哪些問題呢？

First of all, regarding the price increase and the competition follow-up, so far, we increased -- as a market leader, we increased our price based on inflation. And it seems our competition also following us. On the fixed line side, it is really difficult to see or foresee what's going to happen, but we see some movement on the fixed side, which is good for us, so we can increase our prices.

首先，關於價格上漲和競爭後續，到目前為止，我們增加了——作為市場領導者，我們根據通貨膨脹提高了價格。看來我們的競爭對手也在追隨我們。在固網方面，確實很難看到或預見會發生什麼，但我們看到固網方面出現了一些變化，這對我們有利，因此我們可以提高價格。

For the mobile side, I think as the leading operator in the mobile are priority in a high inflation -- and one is to adjust our price in a timely manner. So we're going to continue what we did so far and follow the inflation. The other question was regarding a strategic perspective of Turk Telekom, Turkcell control by Wealth Fund. So I think for the 5G, everybody is expecting for next year, the license not this year. So we'll see what's going to happen. But Wealth Fund has, I believe, 22 companies underneath. So for the licensing side, I mean, we're competing in telecom. So Wealth Fund is a strategic investor for both parties. I don't see any issue on this side for the -- as I said, for the 5G, we expect 2024 as a licensing or spectrum tender as well.

對於移動方面，我認為作為移動領域的領先運營商，在高通脹的情況下首要任務是及時調整我們的價格。因此，我們將繼續我們迄今為止所做的事情並跟踪通貨膨脹。另一個問題是關於土耳其電信、Turkcell 由財富基金控制的戰略視角。所以我認為對於 5G，每個人都期待明年，而不是今年獲得牌照。所以我們會看看會發生什麼。但我相信 Wealth Fund 旗下有 22 家公司。因此，對於許可方面，我的意思是，我們正在電信領域競爭。所以財富基金是雙方的戰略投資者。我認為這方面沒有任何問題——正如我所說，對於 5G，我們預計 2024 年也會進行許可或頻譜招標。

The next question is from the line of Demirak Kayahan with AK Investment. .

下一個問題來自 AK Investment 的 Demirak Kayahan。 。

I have a couple of them. The first one, I mean, did you cancel any other price increases this year in formulating the guidance or otherwise asking this when should we expect -- I mean another price increases given the direction of your cost inflation that we might -- first question.

我有幾個。我的意思是，第一個問題是，你們在製定指導方針時是否取消了今年的任何其他價格上漲，或者以其他方式詢問我們何時應該預期——我的意思是，考慮到我們可能的成本通脹方向，我們可能會再次提價——第一個問題。

Okay. For this question. I mean, we just increased our prices. We're going to follow the inflation. But my feeling is by the end of the year, one more price increase we can expect. But obviously, this price increase for the next year, not this year -- not this year numbers or revenues anything. But we -- I think we can expect in -- price increase for last quarter in Q4.

好的。對於這個問題。我的意思是，我們剛剛提高了價格。我們將跟踪通貨膨脹。但我的感覺是，到今年年底，我們可以預期價格會再次上漲。但顯然，這次價格上漲是為了明年，而不是今年——不是今年的數字或收入。但我認為我們可以預期第四季度最後一個季度的價格上漲。

And would it be possible to give any direction in terms of the expected CapEx intensity for the next year? I mean, would it be -- in your view, would it be -- should we expect something lower than this year, or a bit higher given the expansion plans, the maintenance?

能否就明年的預期資本支出強度給出任何指示？我的意思是，在您看來，考慮到擴張計劃和維護工作，我們的預期是否應該低於今年，或者更高一點？

Yes. To be honest, it is very difficult to see for next year CapEx guidance. But obviously, our aim is decreasing our CapEx ratio -- sales CapEx ratio. So my expectation would be little lower, but not too much on this side. But it's too early to say because we don't know the FX. Because our CapEx -- 75% of our CapEx depends on foreign exchange. So it is really difficult to forecast for next year CapEx. And macro conditions also is going to give us sometimes hard time, sometimes good time. So we'll see. But it is too early to say anything about 2024.

是的。說實話，明年的資本支出指引很難看到。但顯然，我們的目標是降低我們的資本支出比率——銷售資本支出比率。所以我的期望會低一點，但不會太多。但現在說還為時過早，因為我們不了解外匯。因為我們的資本支出——75% 的資本支出取決於外匯。因此，預測明年的資本支出確實很困難。宏觀條件也會給我們帶來時而艱難時而時而美好的時光。所以我們拭目以待。但現在談論 2024 年還為時過早。

Okay. Okay. And the final question from the -- I have for international operations. I mean the numbers in Ukraine is looking quite strong, given the difficult operating environment. There's, I mean, decent growth in USD terms, margins are going up. Should we expect this to continue going forward, how do you see the situation over there?

好的。好的。最後一個問題是關於國際運營的。我的意思是，考慮到困難的運營環境，烏克蘭的數字看起來相當強勁。我的意思是，以美元計算，有不錯的增長，利潤率正在上升。我們是否應該期望這種情況繼續下去，您如何看待那裡的情況？

Obviously, you're asking a difficult question because Ukraine is under war. So based on existing behaviors, I mean, we will see a successful operation over there. But this is -- sometimes it's really difficult to speak while ongoing war is happening over there. So we are happy about Ukraine Lifecell performance. Things getting easier but it doesn't mean like before the war. As everybody knows that Ukraine had around 8 million to maybe 10 million people move out from Ukraine. So this makes -- are they going to come back or not? We'll see. So it is really difficult to forecast for next year or coming years.

顯然，你問的是一個困難的問題，因為烏克蘭正處於戰爭之中。因此，根據現有的行為，我的意思是，我們將在那裡看到成功的操作。但這是——有時候，當那裡正在發生戰爭時，真的很難說話。因此，我們對烏克蘭 Lifecell 的表現感到高興。事情變得越來越容易，但這並不意味著像戰前那樣。眾所周知，烏克蘭有大約800萬到1000萬人口從烏克蘭遷出。所以這使得——他們會回來嗎？我們拭目以待。因此，很難預測明年或未來幾年的情況。

But so far, we are good. If things stable, we're going to continue as good as today, but it is under war. So it's difficult to comment on this.

但到目前為止，我們都很好。如果情況穩定，我們將繼續像今天一樣好，但現在正處於戰爭之中。所以很難對此發表評論。

Congratulations on the results.

祝賀結果。

(Operator Instructions) Ladies and gentlemen, there are no further questions at this time. I will now turn the conference over to Turkcell management for any closing comments. Thank you.

（操作員指示）女士們、先生們，目前沒有其他問題。我現在將把會議轉交給 Turkcell 管理層徵求總結意見。謝謝。

Thank you very much for joining us, and have a good day. Have a good night, whatever it is. Thank you, Bye-bye.

非常感謝您加入我們，祝您有美好的一天。祝你有個美好的夜晚，無論發生什麼。謝謝你，再見。

Thank you for joining us. We hope to see you in the next month.

感謝您加入我們。我們希望在下個月見到您。

Thank you. Bye-bye.

謝謝。再見。

Ladies and gentlemen, the conference has now concluded, and you may disconnect your telephone. Thank you for calling, and have a pleasant evening.

女士們、先生們，會議現已結束，你們可以掛斷電話了。感謝您的來電，祝您度過一個愉快的夜晚。