Tecogen Inc (TGEN) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Greetings. Welcome to the Tecogen third-quarter 2025 conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please note, this conference is being recorded.

問候。歡迎參加 Tecogen 2025 年第三季電話會議。（操作員說明）請注意，本次會議正在錄音。

I will now turn the conference over to Jack Whiting, General Counsel. Thank you, sir. You may begin.

現在我將把會議交給總法律顧問傑克·惠廷。謝謝您，先生。你可以開始了。

Good morning. This is Jack Whiting, General Counsel and Secretary of Tecogen. This call is being recorded and will be archived on our website at tecogen.com. The press release regarding our third quarter 2025 earnings and the presentation provided this morning are available in the Investors section of our website.

早安.這是 Tecogen 公司的總法律顧問兼秘書 Jack Whiting。本次電話會議正在錄音，錄音將存檔於我們的網站tecogen.com。關於我們2025年第三季收益的新聞稿以及今天上午的演示文稿，可在我們網站的「投資者關係」欄位中查閱。

I'd like to direct your attention to our Safe Harbor statement included in our earnings press release and presentation. Various remarks that we make about the company's expectations, plans, and prospects constitute forward-looking statements for purposes of the Safe Harbor provisions under the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Actual results may differ materially from those indicated by forward-looking statements as a result of various factors, including those discussed in the company's most recent annual and quarterly reports on Forms 10-K and 10-Q under the caption Risk Factors filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission and available in the Investors section of our website under the heading SEC Filings.

我想提請各位注意我們在盈利新聞稿和演示文稿中包含的“安全港”聲明。我們對公司預期、計畫和前景所作的各種評論構成 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》安全港條款所指的前瞻性陳述。由於各種因素，實際結果可能與前瞻性聲明所指出的結果有重大差異，這些因素包括公司最近向美國證券交易委員會提交的 10-K 表格和 10-Q 表格年度報告和季度報告中「風險因素」標題下討論的因素，這些報告可在我們網站「投資者」部分的「SEC 文件」標題下找到。

While we may elect to update forward-looking statements, we specifically disclaim any obligation to do so, so you should not rely on any forward-looking statements as representing our views as of any future date.

雖然我們可能會選擇更新前瞻性聲明，但我們明確聲明不承擔任何更新義務，因此您不應依賴任何前瞻性聲明來代表我們在未來任何日期的觀點。

During this call, we will refer to certain financial measures not prepared in accordance with generally accepted accounting principles or GAAP. A reconciliation of non-GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures is provided in the press release regarding our Q3 2025 earnings and on our website.

在本次電話會議中，我們將提及一些不符合公認會計原則（GAAP）的財務指標。我們在 2025 年第三季財報的新聞稿和網站上提供了非 GAAP 財務指標與最直接可比較的 GAAP 指標的調整表。

I will now turn the call over to Abinand Rangesh, Tecogen's CEO, who will provide an overview of third-quarter 2025 activity and results; and Roger Deschenes, Tecogen's CFO, who will provide additional information regarding Q3 2025 financial results. Abinand?

現在我將把電話交給 Tecogen 的執行長 Abinand Rangesh，他將概述 2025 年第三季的活動和業績；以及 Tecogen 的財務長 Roger Deschenes，他將提供有關 2025 年第三季財務業績的更多資訊。阿比南德？

Thank you, Jack. Welcome to our Q3 2025 earnings presentation. In the last three months, we have seen significant forward momentum on our data center strategy. A year ago, when we started this pivot into data center cooling, most of the leads were from independent developers. Now the level of interest has ramped up substantially.

謝謝你，傑克。歡迎參加我們2025年第三季業績報告會。在過去的三個月裡，我們的資料中心策略取得了顯著進展。一年前，當我們開始轉型進入資料中心冷卻領域時，大部分潛在客戶都來自獨立開發商。現在人們的興趣已經大幅提升。

We're getting interest from well-known colocation data center developers. We have now presented our solution to NVIDIA, AMD, and hyperscale developers. Across the board, the feedback has been positive.

我們已經引起了一些知名託管資料中心開發人員的興趣。我們已經向 NVIDIA、AMD 和超大規模開發人員展示了我們的解決方案。整體而言，回饋都是正面的。

Given the level of interest, I'm now very confident that Tecogen will be successful in this market. During this call, I'll explain what some of the bigger developers are asking of us, the validation steps, and give some clarity on the path forward. The Vertiv relationship is a key part of this strategy, so I'll explain how this fits in as well. Our initial leads in data centers were from independent developers. For example, companies in conventional real estate pivoting into data centers or former data center executives who had started their own companies.

鑑於目前的市場關注度，我現在非常有信心 Tecogen 會在這個市場取得成功。在這次通話中，我將解釋一些大型開發人員對我們的要求、驗證步驟，並闡明未來的發展方向。與 Vertiv 的合作關係是該策略的關鍵部分，因此我也會解釋它如何融入其中。我們在資料中心領域的最初線索來自獨立開發商。例如，傳統房地產公司轉型進入資料中心領域，或前資料中心主管創辦了自己的公司。

These developers were initially more open to new ideas, such as our chillers. One of these developers gave us the LOI for six STX chillers I mentioned last quarter. Over the last three months, the developer has come to visit Tecogen, see our customer sites, and as a result, is now looking to include us on three of their projects as part of their main AI cooling work. This could mean more sales of many more chillers than contemplated by the LOI.

這些開發商最初對新想法持開放態度，例如我們的冷卻器。其中一位開發商給了我們我上個季度提到的六台 STX 冷水機的意向書。在過去的三個月裡，開發商多次造訪 Tecogen，並參觀了我們的客戶現場，因此，他們現在希望將我們納入他們的三個專案中，作為他們主要的 AI 冷凍工作的一部分。這意味著冰水機的銷售量可能會比意向書中設想的要多得多。

The total combined IT capacity in the initial phase of the build-out is likely to exceed 200 megawatts and substantially more than that over time. The developer is in active discussions with potential tenants. And given the power constraints across the country, we believe this developer is likely to be successful. The other projects I mentioned last quarter are also at various stages of either obtaining financing or tenants, but are moving along. What is more exciting is that we have started to attract the attention of big-name developers who are well-established in the industry, including those with multiple AI data centers already constructed or in construction.

在建設初期階段，IT總容量可能會超過200兆瓦，隨著時間的推移，容量還會大幅增加。開發商正在積極與潛在租戶洽談。鑑於全國範圍內的電力供應限制，我們認為這家開發商很可能會成功。我上個季度提到的其他項目也處於不同的階段，有的在獲得融資，有的在尋找租戶，但都在穩步推進。更令人興奮的是，我們已經開始吸引業內知名開發商的關注，其中包括那些已經建成或正在建造多個人工智慧資料中心的開發商。

As we presented and listened to developers, hyperscalers, and chip companies, it has become clear that the current methods of cooling a data center create numerous problems that we can solve.

在向開發商、超大規模資料中心營運商和晶片公司進行報告和聽取意見的過程中，我們清楚地認識到，目前資料中心的冷卻方法造成了許多我們可以解決的問題。

For those of you who are new shareholders, I'd like to reiterate the value proposition that Tecogen offers to data centers. As chips have become more powerful, they need more cooling, and cooling systems must be designed for the worst case. So how to stay with full AI load? In some parts of the country, this can be 120 degrees Fahrenheit or more. When you design for the peak, you tie up a lot of power since you don't know when you'll need to turn on the cooling system.

對於各位新股東，我想重申 Tecogen 為資料中心提供的價值主張。隨著晶片性能的提升，它們需要更強的散熱能力，因此散熱系統必須按照​​最壞的情況進行設計。那麼，如何在保持人工智慧滿載運作時保持穩定呢？在某些地區，氣溫可能達到華氏120度甚至更高。如果按照峰值功率進行設計，就會佔用大量電力，因為你不知道什麼時候需要啟動冷卻系統。

In the past, this wasn't a big problem, but with the latest AI chips, electric cooling could require -- consume 25% to 35% of a data center's total power, and the power requirements are only increasing. If you move all for part of the cooling to natural gas, data centers have more power for IT, increasing their potential revenue.

過去，這並不是什麼大問題，但隨著最新人工智慧晶片的出現，電力冷卻可能需要消耗資料中心總功率的 25% 到 35%，而且電力需求還在增加。如果將部分或全部冷卻系統改用天然氣，資料中心將擁有更多電力用於 IT 系統，從而增加其潛在收入。

I know that many of you may have heard of data center cooling technologies such as liquid cooling, immersion cooling, et cetera. All of these technologies are targeted at what happens inside the data centers. All these technologies still connect to chillers like ours to reject the heat, which today are powered by electric chillers requiring substantial amounts of power. Our chillers can interface with any of these liquid cooling or immersion cooling options. The graph on the left shows how much power allocated to cooling nearly doubles based on the hottest design day.

我知道你們中的許多人可能聽說過資料中心冷卻技術，例如液冷、浸沒式冷卻等等。所有這些技術都針對資料中心內部發生的事情。所有這些技術仍然需要像我們這樣的冷卻器來散發熱量，而如今的冷卻器是由需要大量電力的電動冷卻器驅動的。我們的冷水機可以與任何這些液冷或浸沒式冷卻方案配合使用。左側圖表顯示，根據最熱的設計日，分配給冷卻的功率幾乎翻了一番。

This means that in Texas, a 100-megawatt data center today is allocating 35 megawatts to cooling.

這意味著在德州，如今一個 100 兆瓦的資料中心要分配 35 兆瓦用於冷卻。

There's also a secondary problem for some of the bigger data centers. One of the reasons we've started to get interest from hyperscale developers is that some of them are using on-site power generation. They tell us that due to their cooling requirements, they add additional power generation capacity that sits idle for much of the year. Because gas turbines are in short supply, data center developers would rather redeploy these idle gas turbines at the next data center. These developers have also told us that the cost of adding our chillers is less than half the cost of adding an equivalent amount of power generation.

對於一些規模較大的資料中心來說，還存在一個次要問題。我們開始受到超大規模開發商的關注，其中一個原因是他們中的一些人正在使用現場發電。他們告訴我們，由於冷氣需求，他們增加了額外的發電容量，但這些容量一年中的大部分時間都處於閒置狀態。由於燃氣渦輪機供應短缺，資料中心開發人員寧願將這些閒置的燃氣渦輪機重新部署到下一個資料中心。這些開發商也告訴我們，增加我們的冰水機組的成本不到增加同等數量發電裝置成本的一半。

The reason for this is because significant additional infrastructure is required to support gas turbines, whereas our chillers can be a direct replacement for electric chillers, reducing the need for electric power for cooling. Most data center developers we have spoken to are considering using our chillers for 30% to 50% of the data center cooling. Our chillers will operate on natural gas above a certain temperature threshold, so the data center can cap the power allocated for cooling.

這是因為燃氣渦輪機需要大量的額外基礎設施來支持，而我們的冷水機可以直接取代電動冷水機，從而減少冷卻所需的電力。我們接觸過的大多數資料中心開發人員都在考慮使用我們的冰水機組來滿足資料中心 30% 到 50% 的冷卻需求。我們的冷卻器在溫度高於一定閾值時將使用天然氣運行，因此資料中心可以限制分配給冷卻的電力。

In order for these established developers to use our chillers, there is a validation process. This requires providing test data, computer modeling of performance at various parameters, and other information. Although many of these developers understand that we are a smaller company and will need time to ramp up, manufacturing capacity is a key parameter that we need to satisfy. To address manufacturing capacity, we have already been making factory layout changes to increase throughput. We have begun working with contract manufacturers and expect to get the first articles for sheet metal assemblies for the dual power source chiller before year-end. However, this is only one pathway to manufacturing capacity.

為了讓這些成熟的開發人員能夠使用我們的冷水機，需要經過驗證流程。這需要提供測試數據、各種參數下的性能計算機模型以及其他資訊。雖然許多開發商都明白我們是一家規模較小的公司，需要時間來擴大規模，但生產能力是我們必須滿足的關鍵參數。為了解決產能問題，我們已經對工廠佈局進行了調整，以提高產量。我們已開始與代工製造商合作，預計在年底前收到雙電源冷水機鈑金組件的第一批樣品。然而，這只是提升製造能力的途徑之一。

Concurrently, we have been working with Vertiv as a secondary pathway for increasing manufacturing. I understand that shareholders may be concerned that the Vertiv Tecogen relationship has been slow to date. This has changed substantially in the last month. Vertiv has tasked the head of their U.S. chilled water Group to lead the partnership.

同時，我們也與 Vertiv 合作，將其作為提高生產能力的輔助途徑。我理解股東們可能擔心Vertiv Tecogen的合作關係迄今為止進展緩慢。過去一個月，情況發生了很大變化。Vertiv 已指派其美國冷凍水集團負責人領導此次合作。

As a result, we have seen significant forward momentum. Although I can't get into specifics, we are working on multiple avenues to jointly sell and scale up our natural gas solutions to these larger developers and satisfy their validation requirements.

因此，我們看到了顯著的前進勢頭。雖然我不能透露具體細節，但我們正在透過多種途徑與這些大型開發人員合作，共同銷售和擴大我們的天然氣解決方案，並滿足他們的驗證要求。

Based on conversations with these larger developers, the AI chip companies, and hyperscalers, I'm now confident on the scale of the opportunity and the value our chillers bring. Many of these developers need hundreds of chillers a year, and all of them have confirmed the benefits. Our current backlog is approximately $4 million and is predominantly cannabis cultivation and the Las Vegas Convention Center 10-year service contract.

透過與這些大型開發人員、人工智慧晶片公司和超大規模資料中心營運商的交流，我現在對市場機會的規模以及我們的冷卻器所帶來的價值充滿信心。這些開發商每年需要數百台冷卻器，他們都證實了冷卻器帶來的好處。我們目前的積壓訂單約有 400 萬美元，主要包括大麻種植和拉斯維加斯會展中心 10 年服務合約。

We're expecting some multifamily projects and some other projects in cannabis to close later this quarter or early next year. But given that we are now getting interest from some of the well-known developers in data centers, our focus needs to go on securing initial projects from them. If we can do that, more projects from other developers will follow suit.

我們預計一些多戶住宅項目和其他一些大麻項目將於本季末或明年初完成交割。但鑑於我們現在已經引起了一些知名資料中心開發商的興趣，我們的重點需要放在從他們那裡獲得初始專案。如果我們能做到這一點，其他開發者的更多專案也會跟進。

From there, there are multiple strategic options to turn our opportunities in the data center market into value for Tecogen shareholders. As a technology company of our size, we also don't need the broader AI market to grow at billions of dollars a year to generate value for our shareholders. A single 200-megawatt data center uses 100 to 200 electric chillers.

從這裡出發，我們可以採取多種策略選擇，將我們在資料中心市場的機會轉化為 Tecogen 股東的價值。作為一家規模如此之大的科技公司，我們也不需要整個人工智慧市場每年成長數十億美元來為我們的股東創造價值。一個 200 兆瓦的資料中心需要 100 到 200 台電動冷水機組。

To put that into context, the Las Vegas Convention Center order was just seven of our bigger chillers. We're working on technology improvements that provide test data and engineering support and building chiller inventory for potential data center projects.

為了讓大家更理解這一點，拉斯維加斯會展中心的訂單只是我們七台大型冰水機。我們正在致力於技術改進，以提供測試數據和工程支持，並為潛在的資料中心專案建立冷水機組庫存。

We've also made several improvements to our engine platform so that we can double our service intervals and provide better performance and higher engine time. To get essential data for continued product improvement and to reduce the impact of higher labor costs in certain territories like New York City, we invested $700,000 into new engines for the service fleet.

我們還對引擎平台進行了幾項改進，以便將保養間隔延長一倍，並提供更好的性能和更長的引擎使用壽命。為了獲得持續改進產品所需的重要數據，並減少紐約市等某些地區較高勞動成本的影響，我們投資 70 萬美元為服務車隊購買了新引擎。

This disproportionately reduced our service margin because we expense engines but will have a beneficial effect on profitability medium and long term. It also provided much-needed data for continued R&D. Our current cash position is approximately $14 million, but we're expecting to collect $2.5 million in the next few weeks. We also repaid the related party note, so we have no debt on the balance sheet.

由於我們將引擎費用計入成本，這不成比例地降低了我們的服務利潤率，但從中長期來看，這將對獲利能力產生有利影響。它也為持續的研發提供了急需的數據。我們目前的現金儲備約為 1400 萬美元，但預計未來幾週內將收到 250 萬美元。我們也償還了關聯方票據，因此資產負債表上沒有債務。

I'll now hand over to Roger to take us through the financials.

現在我將把麥克風交給羅傑，讓他為我們講解財務數據。

Thank you, Abinand, and good morning. Our third quarter results, total revenues increased $1.6 million in the third quarter to $7.2 million, which compares to $5.6 million in the third quarter of 2024. And this is due entirely to the 115% increase in the products revenue during this period. Our net loss increased in the third quarter to $2.13 million, which compares to $0.93 million in the third quarter of 2024. And this is due to a decrease in our service margin resulting from increased material and labor costs incurred, as Abinand explained earlier, as we invested capital in engine replacements.

謝謝你，阿比南德，早安。第三季業績顯示，總營收較上季成長 160 萬美元，達到 720 萬美元，而 2024 年第三季為 560 萬美元。這完全是由於該時期產品收入成長了 115% 所致。第三季淨虧損增加至 213 萬美元，而 2024 年第三季淨虧損為 93 萬美元。這是由於材料和人工成本增加，導致我們的服務利潤率下降，正如 Abinand 之前解釋的那樣，因為我們投資了資金用於引擎更換。

And in addition, our operating expenses increased during the most recent quarter. Our gross profit decreased 12% due to increased costs incurred in our Services segment. Gross margin for the third quarter decreased 13.7% to 30.4% from 44.1% in 2024. We will discuss the gross margin further in the segment performance slide. Our operating expenses increased just under 28% quarter-over-quarter to $4.28 million from $3.35 million, and this is due to increases in administrative and R&D payroll and increased benefits, recruitment costs, and general increases in our business insurance premiums, depreciation, stock-based compensation, and higher sales commissions.

此外，我們最近一個季度的營運費用也有所增加。由於服務業務部門成本增加，我們的毛利下降了12%。第三季毛利率從 2024 年的 44.1% 下降 13.7% 至 30.4%。我們將在分部績效分析投影片中進一步討論毛利率。我們的營運費用較上季成長近 28%，從 335 萬美元增至 428 萬美元，這是由於行政和研發工資增加、福利增加、招聘成本增加，以及我們的商業保險費、折舊、股票選擇權費用和銷售佣金普遍增加所致。

Moving on to the EBITDA and adjusted EBITDA. For the third quarter, our EBITDA loss was $1.94 million, and the adjusted EBITDA loss was $1.7 million, which compares to an EBITDA loss of $0.77 million and an adjusted EBITDA loss of $0.75 million in the third quarter of 2024. And the increases in both the EBITDA and adjusted EBITDA losses in the current period are due to the decreased gross margins in the Services segment and our higher operating costs.

接下來來看 EBITDA 和調整後 EBITDA。第三季度，我們的 EBITDA 虧損為 194 萬美元，調整後的 EBITDA 虧損為 170 萬美元，而 2024 年第三季的 EBITDA 虧損為 77 萬美元，調整後的 EBITDA 虧損為 75 萬美元。本期 EBITDA 和調整後 EBITDA 虧損的增加是由於服務部門毛利率下降和營運成本上升所致。

Moving next to performance by segment. Our product revenues increased in the third quarter to $2.98 million from $1.39 million in 2024, which is due to increases in chiller and engineered accessory shipments, and it's offset by a decrease in cogeneration shipments. We delivered an additional hybrid drive air-cooled chiller in the current quarter. Our products margin decreased to 36.8% quarter-over-quarter from 42.7% in the comparable period in 2024, and this is due to higher material and labor costs, and also the RA cool chillers are sold at a slightly lower margin due to their initial shipments of the product.

接下來按細分市場分析業績。第三季度，我們的產品收入從 2024 年的 139 萬美元增至 298 萬美元，這主要得益於冰水機和工程配件出貨量的增加，但被熱電聯產出貨量的減少所抵銷。本季我們又交付了一台混合動力空冷式冷水機組。我們的產品毛利率從 2024 年同期的 42.7% 下降到 36.8%，這是由於材料和人工成本上漲，此外，由於 RA 冰水機的初期出貨量，其毛利率也略低。

The services revenue increased 2.4% quarter-over-quarter to $3.94 million in the third quarter of 2025 from $3.85 million in the comparable period in 2024. The gross profit margin decreased 19.1% to 25.3% from 44.4%, and this is due to the increased labor and material costs in our New York territory, I should say, New York City, as we invested capital in engine replacements. Our energy production revenue decreased by 34.2% quarter-over-quarter to $25.60 in 2025 compared to $389,000 in the comparable period of 2024.

2025 年第三季服務營收季增 2.4%，達到 394 萬美元，而 2024 年同期為 385 萬美元。毛利率從 44.4% 下降了 19.1%，至 25.3%，這是由於我們在紐約地區（應該說是紐約市）的勞動力和材料成本增加所致，因為我們投資了資金用於發動機更換。2025 年，我們的能源生產收入較上季下降 34.2%，至 25.60 美元，而 2024 年同期為 389,000 美元。

And this is due, as it was in the past quarter, the expiration of contracts at certain sites late in 2024, and also to the temporary shutdown of a couple of sites for repairs during the current period. Gross margin decreased 10.8% to 34.4% in 2025 compared to 45.2% in 2024, and this is due to the temporary shutdown of the sites we previously mentioned and the additional costs we've incurred to bring the sites back online.

這和上個季度一樣，是由於某些站點的合約在 2024 年底到期，以及本季幾個站點因維修而暫時關閉。2025 年毛利率較 2024 年的 45.2% 下降 10.8% 至 34.4%，這是由於我們之前提到的網站暫時關閉以及我們為使網站重新上線而產生的額外成本所致。

Overall, gross profit margin decreased 13.7% quarter-over-quarter to 30.4% from 41.1%. And again, this is due to a reduction in our services' gross margins.

總體而言，毛利率環比下降 13.7%，從 41.1% 降至 30.4%。這同樣是由於我們服務業務的毛利率下降所致。

This concludes our review of the third quarter 2025 financials. And I'll now turn the call back over to Abinand.

至此，我們對2025年第三季財務狀況的回顧就結束了。現在我將把電話轉回給阿比南德。

Thank you, Roger. I'd like to summarize by saying that as a technology company of our size, we don't need the broader AI market to grow at hundreds of billions of dollars to generate tremendous value for our shareholders.

謝謝你，羅傑。我想總結一下，作為我們這樣規模的科技公司，我們並不需要整個人工智慧市場成長到數千億美元才能為我們的股東創造巨大的價值。

To put the opportunity into context, a single 200-megawatt data center uses 100 to 200 electric chillers. The Las Vegas Convention Center, as I mentioned earlier, was only seven of our chillers. Therefore, as a company, we need to stay focused on satisfying the needs of data centers, including delivery and performance. And from here, we can convert this into value for shareholders, either through scale-up of manufacturing or other strategic options.

為了更好地理解這一機遇，一個 200 兆瓦的資料中心需要 100 到 200 台電動冷水機組。正如我之前提到的，拉斯維加斯會展中心只使用了我們七台冷藏機。因此，作為一家公司，我們需要繼續專注於滿足資料中心的需求，包括交付和效能。然後，我們可以利用這些優勢，透過擴大生產規模或其他策略選擇，將其轉化為股東價值。

Given the level of interest that we're seeing from some of the biggest names in the industry, my confidence level for our strategy continues to increase. I look forward to updating investors on progress. I'll open the floor for questions.

鑑於業內一些知名企業對我們策略表現出的濃厚興趣，我對我們策略的信心與日俱增。我期待向投資者報告進度。接下來我來回答大家的問題。

(Operator Instructions) Chip Moore, ROTH Capital Partners.

（操作員說明）Chip Moore，ROTH Capital Partners。

I wanted to maybe ask first on the initial pilot for the six units. Maybe just any update on how you're thinking about potential timing for that? And then the follow-on, maybe expand on -- it sounds like that opportunity is growing. Are these additional sites in planning? Or how to think about those additional opportunities, as well as I think you mentioned they're interested in doing a greater portion of their load. Just any sense of scale there as well.

我想先問問最初的六台樣機的情況。您能否透露一下您對可能的時間安排有何想法？然後，後續工作或許可以進一步拓展──聽起來這個機會正在成長。這些是正在規劃中的其他選址嗎？或如何看待這些額外的機會，正如你所提到的，他們也有興趣承擔更大比例的工作量。那裡也缺乏任何規模感。

Yes. So that's a great question, Jeff. So it's -- the way we are seeing it, all three projects are at around the same stage in terms of planning because there -- that developer is trying to essentially get a tenant for all three about the same time. What seems to be the case is that some of the larger entities that are willing to lease these kind of data centers would try to take up all the capacity in one shop. So it's possible that a portion might be leased separately.

是的。傑夫，你問得好。所以，從我們的角度來看，這三個項目在規劃方面都處於大致相同的階段，因為開發商基本上是想在同一時間為這三個項目找到租戶。似乎有些規模較大的實體願意租賃這類資料中心，並試圖租下某個資料中心的所有容量。因此，有可能其中一部分會被單獨出租。

So the timing could be very minute, or it might take a few months, depending on how long it takes them to get a tenant. It might even take -- it's because a lot of those things are outside our control, I would say that from what we understand, the developer is in very active discussions with tenants right now.

所以時間可能很短，也可能需要幾個月，這取決於他們找到租戶需要多長時間。甚至可能需要更長時間——因為很多事情都超出了我們的控制範圍，據我們了解，開發商目前正在與租戶進行非常積極的討論。

We have been included as part of the engineering design stage. So our odds are very good, but the tenants do have a say in what gets included as part of the project. That's really where the Vertiv relationship will come in handy, because if you end up with a hyperscale tenant and you need an approved vendor type relationship, Vertiv is an approved vendor for most big companies. So we can always sell through there. So there's a few nuances that comes to that.

我們參與了工程設計階段的工作。所以我們成功的幾率很大，但租戶對專案包含哪些內容也有發言權。這正是 Vertiv 與客戶的合作關係能夠派上用場的地方，因為如果你最終擁有一個超大規模的租戶，並且需要與一家獲得批准的供應商建立合作關係，那麼 Vertiv 就是大多數大公司認可的供應商。所以我們總是可以透過那裡銷售。所以這裡面還有一些細微差別。

But having said that, that's not the only opportunity that we've got on the table right now. There's multiple opportunities today that have come up. I can't speak about specifics on a number of them because we're under NDA with a number of companies. But I think this is just one of the many that are moving in sort of parallel paths right now.

但話雖如此，這並不是我們目前唯一的選擇。今天出現了許多機會。我無法透露其中許多公司的具體細節，因為我們與多家公司簽署了保密協議。但我認為這只是目前眾多並行發展趨勢中的一個。

And to your point on Vertiv, it sounds like things are progressing at a faster clip now. Maybe just any more you can give us on that? And then just around validation and test data that you mentioned, obviously, you're a smaller company, just a sense of what you need and timing there on some of the more detailed stuff.

關於你提到的Vertiv，聽起來現在進展速度確實加快了。您還能提供更多相關資訊嗎？然後，關於你們提到的驗證和測試數據，顯然，你們是一家規模較小的公司，只是想了解你們需要哪些更詳細的資訊以及時間安排。

Sure. So let me start with the Vertiv side of things. So I think that one of the reasons that the Vertiv relationship was a little slow to get going was because we were either dealing at too high a level in terms of seniority at Vertiv or at more of a junior level. So what Vertiv ended up doing was restructuring who our point of contact was in their company and who was going to lead the effort forward. So now we have their Head of U.S. chiller operations, who has both the authority and the ability to move this forward quickly. So that started accelerating things now.

當然。那麼，就讓我先從Vertiv這邊說起吧。所以我認為，Vertiv 合作關係進展緩慢的原因之一是，我們與 Vertiv 的高階主管打交道，或者我們與 Vertiv 的基層管理人員打交道。因此，Vertiv 最終採取的措施是重組我們在他們公司的聯絡人，以及由誰來領導這項工作。現在我們有了他們的美國冷水機組營運負責人，他既有權力也有能力迅速推進這項工作。所以事情開始加速發展了。

The other thing that we are working on is we're starting to see interest directly from large-scale data centers, where for both companies, there'll be a big benefit in terms of this relationship is really also if Vertiv can help us scale up supply chain manufacturing. So a lot of our discussions have also been around that area because -- and of course, providing a way for us to -- or for end customers to feel more comfortable working with a smaller company like us. So it's the nature of the relationship is not purely just Vertiv is going to do the marketing and we sell to them. Now there's multiple other avenues that are being worked on right now.

我們正在努力的另一件事是，我們開始看到大型資料中心直接對我們感興趣，對於兩家公司來說，這種合作關係將帶來巨大的好處，因為如果 Vertiv 能夠幫助我們擴大供應鏈製造規模，那將更加有利。因此，我們的許多討論也都圍繞著這個領域展開，因為——當然，也是為了讓我們——或者說讓最終客戶更願意與我們這樣的小公司合作。所以這種關係的本質並非只是 Vertiv 負責行銷，而我們向他們銷售產品。目前還有其他多種途徑正在研究中。

With regards to the second question on validation, so part of that -- and that's one of the reasons why, as we're starting to see this real level of interest, as a company, we're focusing significantly on that, whatever it takes to provide the data. So we've got units in our test cells here. We -- our engineering team, we've expanded that a little bit to really be able to support some of this effort. And then we have -- we just run test data. I mean we have some of that data as a standard just because every -- even in other industries, the same, some of that requirement is the same.

關於第二個關於驗證的問題，其中一部分——這也是為什麼，隨著我們開始看到這種真正的興趣，作為一家公司，我們正在大力關注這一點，不惜一切代價提供數據。所以我們這裡測試單元裡有一些設備。我們——我們的工程團隊，已經稍微擴充了一下規模，以便真正能夠支持這項工作。然後我們——我們只需運行測試數據。我的意思是，我們把其中一些數據當作標準，因為即使在其他行業，某些要求也是相同的。

But with data centers, there's -- it's a little more expanded because they operate in different conditions. And depending on which part of the country they're in, it varies. So we have to provide a lot of that. And that -- part of that is we've got units in test cells in our factory, just running that data as needed as people ask for it.

但對於資料中心來說，情況就不同了——因為資料中心的運作環境不同，所以情況要複雜一些。而且，根據他們所在的地區不同，情況也會有所不同。所以我們必須提供很多這方面的資源。其中一部分原因是，我們在工廠的測試單元中放置了設備，並根據人們的要求運行這些數據。

And on the manufacturing side, Abinand, I thought I heard you say you're working on the contract manufacturing piece. Was that on the dual-source power unit? And how are you approaching the contract manufacturing side?

至於生產製造方面，阿比南德，我好像聽到你說你在做合約製造方面的工作。那是雙電源裝置上的嗎？那麼，你們是如何看待代工製造方面的呢？

So we believe both from a margin standpoint as well as scalability standpoint, the pieces that are better outsourced are things like the -- especially on the air-cooled chiller, where there's a lot of sheet metal assemblies associated with that. So we're going to look to outsource that sheet metal assembly and then have the -- do the power train and the final assembly in our factory, test it, ship it. So that sheet metal portion and all of the refrigeration systems associated with that sort of the piping, we're working with a company that does a lot of overflow capacity for some of the bigger chiller manufacturers. So they have significant ability to scale up.

因此，我們認為，無論從利潤率還是可擴展性的角度來看，更適合外包的部件是——尤其是在空冷式冷水機上，因為那裡有很多鈑金組件與之相關。因此，我們將考慮將鈑金組裝外包，然後在我們自己的工廠進行動力系統和最終組裝、測試和出貨。所以，對於鈑金部分以及與這類管道相關的所有冷凍系統，我們正在與一家為一些大型冷水機製造商提供大量溢流容量的公司合作。因此，它們具有很強的規模擴張能力。

But what we need to do is to get the first article, validate that, which we're expecting to have the first article in the next month, 1.5 months or so, so that we can verify that it meets our design and it fits with all the other pieces that we will assemble in our factory. Once that happens, scaling that up is relatively straightforward because you're just using that same -- you're using the same plant. So that is an avenue for us to really improve throughput out of our existing factory. The other piece we have done in our existing factory is to have a more flexible layout. So it doesn't matter which chiller variety we get an order for, we can respond to that.

但我們需要做的是拿到第一件樣品，並進行驗證。我們預計在接下來的一個月或一個半月左右就能拿到第一件樣品，以便我們驗證它是否符合我們的設計，以及是否與我們工廠將要組裝的所有其他部件相符。一旦實現了這一點，擴大規模就相對簡單了，因為你只是在使用同樣的工廠——你使用的是同一家工廠。所以，這為我們提高現有工廠的產能提供了一個切實可行的途徑。我們在現有工廠中做的另一項工作是採用了更靈活的佈局。所以無論接到哪種冷藏設備的訂單，我們都能滿足需求。

And if I could ask one more, just on service margins and the new engines you introduced, just how to think about that, maybe more near term, when we start to see some benefits. And obviously, I imagine that should help you as you get some bigger deployments in data center, but just strategically, what that could do as well?

如果我能再問一個問題，就服務利潤率和你們引進的新引擎而言，我們應該如何看待這個問題，也許更近期一些，當我們開始看到一些好處的時候。顯然，我認為這應該有助於您在資料中心進行更大規模的部署，但從策略角度來看，它還能帶來什麼影響呢？

Yes. So if we look back at service margin over the last year, 1.5 years or so, they've sort of been inconsistent. There have been some quarters where we've had them right around the 50% mark, and some points have been in the sort of low 40s or so. And as we mentioned last quarter, the cost of operating in New York, in particular, has gone way up, especially travel time between sites. So when you look at the service like a single engine in, let's say, New York, the -- some of your biggest costs, right, tend to be the engine.

是的。因此，如果我們回顧過去一年半左右的服務利潤率，會發現它們一直不太穩定。有些季度，這個數字接近 50%，有些時候則在 40% 左右。正如我們上個季度提到的，在紐約的營運成本尤其大幅上漲，特別是各個站點之間的差旅時間。所以，當你把這項服務看作是紐約的一台單引擎列車時，你的一些最大成本，對吧，往往就是這台引擎。

If you can basically avoid any engine work, or you can avoid having -- if you can double your oil intervals, then you don't have to go back to a site anywhere near as often.

如果你基本上可以避免任何引擎維修工作，或者可以避免——如果你能將換油週期延長一倍，那麼你就不必像以前那樣頻繁地回到工地了。

And you can do this -- you can -- the delta in putting a new engine with all the approved -- like the updated systems versus maybe making some repairs or making small increments, that's -- it's relatively small. But if you could double your engine life or even increase it by 25%, 30%, that will disproportionately improve your margin. So I would say in the next couple of quarters, we're not yet sure where the service margin is going to land, just because we might choose, depending on how the initial results from this and how we're seeing things start to look. We remotely monitor every unit. So just looking at the data, looking at short-term data and saying, okay, everything is working really well.

而且你可以這樣做——你可以——安裝一台配備所有已批准的更新系統的新引擎與進行一些維修或小幅改進之間的差異——相對較小。但是，如果能將引擎壽命延長一倍，甚至延長 25%、30%，將大大提高利潤率。所以我想說，在接下來的幾個季度裡，我們還不確定服務利潤率會達到什麼水平，因為我們可能會根據初步結果以及我們觀察到的情況來做出選擇。我們對每個單元進行遠端監控。所以，僅僅查看數據，查看短期數據，然後說，好的，一切都運作得非常好。

We're seeing this decline in terms of having to actually go to sites as often, then we might roll out more across the fleet.

我們看到實際需要前往現場的頻率有所下降，那麼我們可能會在整個車隊中推廣這種做法。

Because, as I mentioned on the engine side of things, it's a combination of not only improving the actual engine system, but it's also things like oil change intervals, where you can almost -- you can increase it 50% or even double it, which is what we've seen in the initial sites. If we can see this across this broader range of units, then we might apply it to more units because, again, it will help us get to that 50% or higher gross profit margin much sooner if we do that.

因為正如我在引擎方面提到的，這不僅是改進引擎系統本身，還包括延長換油週期，你可以將換油週期延長 50% 甚至翻倍，這正是我們在最初的幾個案例中看到的。如果我們能在更廣泛的單元中看到這一點，那麼我們就可以將其應用於更多單元，因為這樣做可以幫助我們更快地達到 50% 或更高的毛利率。

So for the next two quarters, it's a little hard to predict until we see our own data from that. But past that point, I would say this is -- this will definitely improve overall margins on service and get us to the point where we're generating healthy cash from that, and we can really focus on growing the data center business instead.

因此，在接下來的兩個季度裡，在我們看到自己的數據之前，很難做出預測。但從那以後，我認為這肯定會提高服務的整體利潤率，使我們能夠從中獲得健康的現金流，這樣我們就可以真正專注於發展資料中心業務了。

Maybe -- sorry, one last one. Just your tone and confidence sounds like it's picked up. And obviously, getting in front of names like NVIDIA and AMD and hyperscalers quite impressive. Just any more you can expand on that feedback and what you're hearing from some of those bigger names and receptivity?

或許——抱歉，最後一個。聽起來你的語氣和自信都提升了。顯然，能夠領先 NVIDIA、AMD 和超大規模資料中心等公司，這相當令人印象深刻。您能否進一步詳細說明這些回饋，以及您從一些業內大咖那裡聽到的消息和他們的接受程度？

So again, I can give you broad information here. A lot of these ones, they're -- especially the bigger names, as we look at the bigger developers, we have NDAs with them. But more broadly, I think across the industry, the things that we're seeing are the power constraints are getting substantial. I mean, people are finding that utility power is, I wouldn't say nonexistent, but getting the full utility power is becoming more and more difficult.

所以，我在這裡只能提供一些概括性的信息。很多這樣的公司，尤其是一些知名公司，當我們審視那些大型開發商時，我們發現我們都與他們簽訂了保密協議。但更廣泛地說，我認為整個產業面臨的問題是，電力限制正變得越來越嚴重。我的意思是，人們發現公共電力供應雖然不能說完全不存在，但要獲得充足的公共電力供應變得越來越困難。

The cooling load is definitely getting higher with the current generation of chips, right, especially when you're designing data centers down in Texas or Virginia, where your hottest day because you're actually not designing just for the hottest day in one year, you're designing it for the hottest day in the last 20 years. So that delta, the amount of power needed, is so much higher.

隨著新一代晶片的出現，冷卻負荷肯定會越來越高，對吧？尤其是在德克薩斯州或維吉尼亞州設計資料中心時，因為你實際上不是在為一年中最熱的一天設計，而是在為過去 20 年中最熱的一天設計。因此，所需的功率差值要高得多。

And as I mentioned, the feedback on the alternative, which is, okay, what if you do on-site power generation? On-site power generation is actually -- this is where I feel like our assumptions have been validated in terms of the cost delta. We're definitely getting told across the board that on-site power generation is substantially more expensive than choosing our chiller option. I think the real hurdles for us as a company to get traction in this space is going to be to figure out ways to derisk somebody choosing a natural gas chiller, right? Because you -- and that's really where that dual power source chiller is particularly attractive, because you've got two power sources.

正如我之前提到的，關於替代方案的回饋是，好吧，如果進行現場發電呢？現場發電實際上——我覺得就成本差異而言，我們的假設在這裡得到了驗證。我們得到的普遍回饋是，現場發電的成本遠高於選擇我們的冷水機組方案。我認為，對於我們公司而言，要想在這個領域取得進展，真正的障礙在於如何降低人們選擇天然氣冷水機的風險，對吧？因為你——而這正是雙電源冷水機特別有吸引力的地方，因為你有兩個電源。

So you can max that chiller up with a generator if you needed to, you can run on natural gas, you can choose to switch over to natural gas part of the time. You don't -- you have many different ways to run that. But it's still going to be -- we have to work our way through these steps. But we're not getting any pushback in terms of the underlying value proposition, the cost benefits. It's really a matter at this point of figuring out ways to get projects, even if it's smaller projects with some of these bigger names, to really get people comfortable with the technology.

所以，如果需要的話，你可以用發電機給冷水機最大功率，你可以使用天然氣運行，你也可以選擇部分時間切換到天然氣。你不需要——你有很多不同的方法來運行它。但這仍然是——我們必須一步一步地完成這些步驟。但就其根本價值主張和成本效益而言，我們並沒有遇到任何阻力。現階段的關鍵在於想辦法獲得項目，即使是與一些知名人士合作的小項目，也要讓人們真正熟悉這項技術。

And then from there, I think it will grow.

然後，我認為它會從那裡發展壯大。

Alexander Blanton, Clear Harbor Asset Management.

Alexander Blanton，Clear Harbor資產管理公司。

I'd like you to give us an idea of what the dollar volume would be of the example that you gave, a data center with 200 chillers.

我想請您估算一下，您舉的例子——一個擁有 200 台冷卻器的資料中心——的美元交易額是多少。

So I'm going to give you broad ballpark numbers here, right? So the -- let's just say out of the 200, about half of them went to our type of chiller, right? That would be anywhere from $30 million to $50 or more, depending on how big each of those.

所以我在這裡只能給出一個大致的數字範圍，對吧？所以——這麼說吧，在200台設備中，大約有一半都選擇了我們這種類型的冷卻器，對吧？那金額大概在3000萬美元到5000萬美元甚至更多，取決於每項資產的規模。

$30 million to $50 million for 100 chillers?

100台冰水機組要3000萬到5000萬美元？

Well, it depends on how -- so there's a lot of pieces here, right? You've got the size of the chiller, the I guess, to a certain extent, Alex, I'm giving you a very broad range here just purely because there are other people that sell this and each -- it depends on -- our pricing is a little different depending on whether it's the dual power source or whether it's a standard DTX chiller or so.

嗯，這取決於具體情況——這裡涉及很多方面，對吧？你已經考慮了冷水機的尺寸，我想在某種程度上，Alex，我在這裡給你一個非常寬泛的範圍，僅僅是因為還有其他人銷售這種產品，而且每個——這取決於——我們的定價略有不同，這取決於它是雙電源還是標準的DTX冷水機等等。

Why would you -- why did you say a half of them would be yours, who would have the other half?

你為什麼會——為什麼說其中一半是你的，另一半歸誰？

So typically, at least based on the early conversations that we've had with some of the bigger developers, they would typically keep standard electric chillers for part of it and use us for part of it. Some of that may be just having dual supply chains for any data center. I think in many cases, having splitting those kind of systems seems to be standard practice. But again, there's a lot of moving pieces when it comes to those bigger projects.

所以通常情況下，至少根據我們與一些大型開發商的早期對話來看，他們通常會一部分使用標準的電動冷水機，另一部分使用我們的設備。部分原因可能在於任何資料中心都需要兩條供應鏈。我認為在很多情況下，拆分這類系統似乎是一種標準做法。但話說回來，在那些大型專案中，有許多環節需要協調配合。

Well, if the savings using the gas chiller is so great, why would they have any electric chillers?

如果使用瓦斯冷水機能節省這麼多成本，為什麼還要使用電動冷水機？

So I think over time, and this is really part of the earlier comment that I made. I think the issue on right now is very little to do with the benefits of the product. I think a lot of it is really comfort level because we're doing something different in a data center, right? Even though we might have these chillers in many critical cooling applications like hospitals and ice shrinks, this is still a new industry for us. So I think over time, you might see the full system go this way, but --

所以我覺得隨著時間的推移，這其實也是我之前評論的一部分。我認為目前的問題與產品的好處關係不大。我認為這很大程度上是舒適度的問題，因為我們在資料中心所做的事情與以往不同，對吧？儘管我們可能在許多關鍵的冷卻應用中使用這些冷卻器，例如醫院和製冰廠，但這對我們來說仍然是一個新興產業。所以我認為隨著時間的推移，你可能會看到整個系統朝著這個方向發展，但是--

Okay. So it's a matter of having confidence in the company and the product.

好的。所以關鍵在於對公司和產品有信心。

I think so. I think that's really the -- at least in terms of the feedback and the ways that people are looking at it, doing a portion of the AI load initially or a portion of it or using it for things like turbine cooling, which again allows people to try it out without taking too much risk initially. And then if things work well, then I think you'll start seeing much bigger portion of the load that move over to systems like ours.

我也這麼認為。我認為這確實是——至少從反饋和人們看待它的方式來看——先執行一部分 AI 負載，或者將其用於渦輪冷卻等用途，這樣人們就可以在一開始不承擔太大風險的情況下進行嘗試。如果一切順利，我認為你會看到更大比例的負載轉移到像我們這樣的系統。

Just to shift topics for a minute. What is the status of the renovation of the Las Vegas Convention Center with your chillers?

換個話題聊。貴公司冰水機組參與的拉斯維加斯會展中心翻新工程進度如何？

So we have shipped our chillers to the convention center. I would estimate that, that site will probably come online early next year. So they're in construction. They're installing our chillers right now. And I would say that, yes, we're expecting that site to start up sometime early next year.

我們已經把冷卻器運到會展中心了。我估計，該網站可能會在明年初上線。所以他們正在施工。他們現在正在安裝我們的冰水機組。是的，我們可以說，我們預計網站將於明年初上線。

And what percentage completion is it at the moment? You shipped some, but not complete, right?

目前完成百分比是多少？你們出貨了一部分，但還沒全部發出，對吧？

No, the chillers -- we've shipped the chillers to them now. So that project is complete. The bit that isn't complete is the service contract, which will, of course, carry on for -- like it's a prepaid contract. So we'll recognize that over the next 10 years.

不，是冷卻器——我們已經把冷卻器發貨給他們了。所以這個項目已經完成了。尚未完成的部分是服務合同，當然，該合約將繼續有效——就像預付費合約一樣。所以，在接下來的十年裡，我們將認識到這一點。

Okay. So you recognize the revenue from those products?

好的。所以你會確認這些產品的收入嗎？

Correct. Correct.

正確的。正確的。

And as to the -- going back to the data centers, what would you estimate would be the timing of the orders in that space?

至於資料中心方面，您估計該領域的訂單會在什麼時間出現？

That unfortunately, is the hardest piece to predict. At this stage, I cannot make even reads. It's the one that we have an LOI for, that could move very quickly as soon as they get a tenant, right? That would be that -- but the other projects there, a lot of the ones from the independent developers that I initially -- like we started working with, those projects, they're hoping to be online by 2027, which means they'll have to take deliveries in 2026. But with a lot of those entities, again, there's pieces that are outside our control, like lining up the tenants.

不幸的是，這正是最難預測的部分。現階段，我連閱讀都做不到。我們已經和他們簽了意向書，一旦找到租戶，交易就能很快完成，對吧？事情就是這樣——但是其他項目，很多是我最初合作的獨立開發者的項目——就像我們開始合作的項目一樣，他們希望在 2027 年上線，這意味著他們必須在 2026 年開始交付。但對許多這類實體來說，同樣存在一些我們無法控制的因素，例如租戶的安排。

With regards to the bigger-name developers, it's really a matter of how long it takes to get through the validation process, what it takes because they might start using chillers earlier on. It might be smaller chunks just to try it out. But they don't have tenant problems. They don't have financing issues. So those things might move much faster.

對於知名度較高的開發商而言，真正的問題在於完成驗證過程需要多長時間，因為他們可能會更早開始使用冷卻器。或許可以先分小塊試試看。但他們沒有租戶問題。他們沒有融資問題。所以這些事情的進展速度可能會快很多。

I think this is one of those cases where we'll -- I'll try to keep people updated between now and when we report next as soon as we have any traction on any of these projects in terms of getting those projects over the line.

我認為這種情況屬於我們會——我會盡量在下次發布報告之前，盡快向大家通報這些項目的最新進展，一旦我們在推進這些項目方面取得任何進展，就會立即通知大家。

Now these are projects that haven't started yet. What kind of an opportunity is there for you to retrofit or to participate in the expansion of existing centers? I mean you're talking to larger hyperscalers or people in the business that are already operating these centers. Do you have an opportunity to sell anything to them?

這些項目目前尚未啟動。您有哪些機會可以參與現有中心的改造或擴建？我的意思是，你是在和規模更大的超大規模資料中心運營商或業內已經運營這些資料中心的人交談。你有沒有機會向他們推銷任何東西？

So in terms of retrofits, we're not seeing as much -- we've seen a few projects in that in terms of retrofits. But majority of the ones right now are being built ground up for the latest chips. A lot of the retrofit opportunities are with the previous generation of chips that -- I think the industry as a whole, we're not seeing -- at least from what we've seen there, we're not seeing as much activity in the retrofit market. But I think that is going to change pretty soon, given the power constraints. In the very small-sized data centers, we might see some retrofit opportunities.

所以就改造而言，我們看到的並不多——我們只看到一些改造項目。但目前大多數都是為最新晶片從零開始建造的。許多改造機會都集中在上一代晶片上——我認為整個產業，至少從我們目前所看到的來看，改造市場並沒有那麼活躍。但考慮到電力限制，我認為這種情況很快就會改變。在規模非常小的資料中心，我們可能會看到一些改造機會。

Some of the cloud-type data centers that are being converted to have some AI component or some computing component, that might happen. But it's -- in terms of the bigger AI data centers right now, it tends to be new builds, built ground up for the latest chips with liquid cooling and all of the other pieces associated with it.

有些正在改造的雲端資料中心可能會增加一些人工智慧元件或運算元件，這種情況可能會發生。但就目前規模較大的 AI 資料中心而言，它們往往是新建的，從零開始建造，採用最新的晶片、液冷系統以及所有相關的其他組件。

Barry Hymes, Sage Asset Management.

Barry Hymes，Sage資產管理公司。

I had two questions. One, just back on the Vertiv relationship. When -- how long ago was the change in that point of contact? And are you generally making joint sales calls with them? Or did you have to do teach-ins for their sales force?

我有兩個問題。第一，再說說與Vertiv的關係。該接觸點發生變化的時間是多久以前？你們通常會和他們一起進行聯合銷售拜訪嗎？還是你需要為他們的銷售團隊進行培訓？

Or just kind of how is that process working? And if you do get an order through them, do they do the service, or do you do the service? And then second question, just quick, could you remind us what percent cost savings on average, or what's the range that you would typically quote on your system versus traditional?

或者，這個過程是如何運作的？如果透過他們接到訂單，是由他們提供服務，還是由你提供服務？第二個問題，簡單問一下，您能否告訴我們，您的系統與傳統系統相比，平均可以節省多少成本，或者您通常會給出的成本節省範圍是多少？

So with regards to the Vertiv relationship, I'd say the change in point of contact was probably about three to four weeks ago. So it's pretty recent. Although we've been dealing at the higher levels with Vertiv since the agreement was signed, it was just trying to get things to move faster on their side and make sure that there was authority to really drive this relationship forward. So that change happened more, yes, three to four weeks ago.

所以就與 Vertiv 的關係而言，我認為聯絡人的變更大概發生在三到四周前。所以這是最近才發生的。雖然自協議簽署以來，我們一直與 Vertiv 的高層進行溝通，但我們只是想加快他們那邊的進度，並確保他們擁有真正推動這段關係向前發展的權力。是的，這種變化發生在三到四周前。

We have done teach-ins for their sales force already. We have done a few joint sales calls, but a lot of them have been more in terms of identifying what are the key pain points that data centers are identifying beyond purely like what is the power that's freed up there. Other things like, for example, one of those calls with the stakeholders, identify things like uninterrupted cooling. So for example, in an electric chiller, if you lose power, what needs to happen is the electric chiller will shut down, diesel generator will come on and then you will turn on the -- like the chiller will come back online.

我們已經為他們的銷售團隊舉辦過培訓課程。我們進行了一些聯合銷售拜訪，但其中很多次更多的是為了確定資料中心面臨的主要痛點，而不僅僅是像釋放了多少電力這樣的問題。例如，在與利害關係人的一次通話中，會明確指出諸如不間斷冷卻之類的問題。例如，在電動冷水機中，如果斷電，需要發生的是電動冷水機關閉，柴油發電機啟動，然後你才能打開——就像冷水機重新上線一樣。

With natural gas, you could potentially keep running through an outage. You just move some of the pumps onto backup power, and you could run through an outage. So there are benefits like that, that are not necessarily initially obvious unless you talk to end customers. So those are the kind of things that we've done with the Vertiv sales team to really identify what those pieces are. Now it will start to ramp like -- and Vertiv does -- has been doing some initial quoting to potential customers.

使用天然氣，即使停電，你也有可能繼續用電。你只需將部分水泵切換到備用電源，就能在停電期間繼續運作。所以，像這樣的好處，除非你和最終客戶交談，否則一開始不一定很明顯。所以，我們和 Vertiv 銷售團隊一起做了這些事情，以真正確定這些要素是什麼。現在它將開始加速發展——Vertiv 也確實如此——已經向潛在客戶進行了一些初步報價。

So -- but exactly where those projects are, some of that is not as clear to us. Most of these bigger opportunities that we're talking about today came from Tecogen's direct marketing. So us reaching out directly or being big data centers at trade shows, or yes, direct outreach to some of them. So I think the Vertiv side of things is spinning up. I think the right things are happening. But that change, I think the acceleration really started, I think, in the last month or so.

所以——但是這些項目究竟在哪裡，我們有些地方還不清楚。我們今天討論的這些更大的機會大多來自 Tecogen 的直接行銷。所以，我們可以直接聯絡他們，或是在貿易展上設立大數據中心，或者，是的，直接聯絡他們中的一些人。所以我覺得Vertiv方面正在加速推進。我認為事情正在朝著正確的方向發展。但我認為這種變化，或者說加速變化，真正開始於最近一個月左右。

With regards to your question regarding savings, really, you have to think about it in terms of power available, right? So when you've allocated power to cooling, that power is not available for those IT chips anymore. So it's really a reduction in revenue for data center. So let's say, 30 megawatts goes to cooling, that -- today's numbers, like if you're a colocation data center owner that's essentially having a hyperscale tenant there, that hyperscale tenant is paying anything from $150 to $200 per kilowatt per month. So for every additional megawatt, you're talking more than $2 million of additional revenue a data center can make if you're a colocation data center owner.

關於你提出的節省成本的問題，實際上，你必須從可用能源的角度來考慮，對吧？所以，當電力分配給散熱系統後，這些電力就無法再用於那些IT晶片了。所以，這實際上意味著資料中心收入的減少。假設有 30 兆瓦的電力用於冷卻，那麼——按照今天的數字來看，如果你是一個託管資料中心的所有者，你的資料中心裡有一個超大規模租戶，那麼這個超大規模租戶每月每千瓦時要支付 150 到 200 美元。因此，對於託管資料中心的所有者來說，每增加一兆瓦的電力，資料中心就能增加超過 200 萬美元的收入。

If you're a hyperscaler, right, it's the difference between having your data center that's 70 megawatts versus -- or having 70 megawatts of computing versus having 100 megawatts of computing available. So it's really what it allows you to do in that data center. How much additional computing you can have on-site? So it's really an increase in revenue rather than purely a reduction in operating cost, which there is a reduction in operating cost, but that's actually small compared to the increase in revenue.

如果你是一家超大規模資料中心營運商，那麼這就好比你的資料中心是 70 兆瓦還是——或者說，擁有 70 兆瓦的運算能力還是擁有 100 兆瓦的可用運算能力之間的差異。所以關鍵在於它允許你在資料中心裡做什麼。你們現場還能配備多少額外的運算資源？所以，這其實是收入的成長，而不是單純的營運成本的降低。雖然營運成本也有所降低，但與收入的成長相比，這實際上微不足道。

There are no further questions at this time. We will be concluding today's conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time and thank you for your participation.

目前沒有其他問題了。今天的會議到此結束。您可以暫時斷開線路，感謝您的參與。