TFI International Inc (TFII) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good day, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for standing by. Welcome to TFI International's second-quarter 2024 results conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that the conference call will contain statements that are forward-looking in nature and subject to a number of risks and uncertainties and that could cause actual results to differ materially. Also, I would like to remind everyone that this conference call is being recorded on Friday, July 26, 2024.

美好的一天，女士們先生們。謝謝你的支持。歡迎參加 TFI International 2024 年第二季業績電話會議。 （操作員說明）請注意，電話會議將包含前瞻性聲明，並受到許多風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果出現重大差異。另外，我想提醒大家，這次電話會議是在 2024 年 7 月 26 日星期五錄製的。

I will now turn the conference call over to Alain Bedard, Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer of TFI International. Please go ahead, sir.

我現在將電話會議轉交給 TFI International 董事長、總裁兼執行長 Alain Bedard。請繼續，先生。

Well, thank you, operator, and welcome, everyone, to our call today. Our results released yesterday after the close, where again, very solid with a year-over-year increase in both revenue and operating income. In all of our segments, our performance is still very lackluster freight environment. Our results reflect the hard work every day of our skilled and dedicated team members as well as strong management and are many other self-help initiatives that will continue to benefit us going forward.

好的，謝謝接線生，歡迎大家今天參加我們的通話。我們昨天收盤後發布了業績，收入和營業收入均同比增長，非常穩健。在我們所有的細分市場中，我們的貨運環境表現仍然非常黯淡。我們的成果反映了我們技術精湛、敬業的團隊成員每天的辛勤工作以及強有力的管理，以及許多其他自助舉措將繼續使我們的未來受益。

Our overreaching focus as a company is on the long-held operating principle that got us here. We're focused on the details, including quality of service that drives volumes. We're focused on freight quality, maximizing weight and revenue per shipment and always striving for cost management through greater efficiencies.

作為一家公司，我們的首要重點是長期堅持的經營原則，而正是這些原則讓我們走到了今天。我們專注於細節，包括推動銷售的服務品質。我們專注於貨運質量，最大限度地提高每批貨物的重量和收入，並始終致力於透過提高效率來管理成本。

I believe that especially during weaker freight cycles, it's this adherence to the fundamentals that helps us perform. All the while, we maintain a solid financial position that allows us to seek highly strategic M&A opportunities to intelligently invest in the business and to return excess capital to shareholders whenever possible.

我相信，尤其是在貨運週期疲軟的情況下，正是這種對基本原則的堅持幫助我們取得了業績。同時，我們保持穩健的財務狀況，使我們能夠尋求高度策略性的併購機會，明智地投資於業務，並儘可能將多餘的資本返還給股東。

During the second quarter of 2024, our revenue before fuel surcharge was up 27% to $1.96 billion. We generated operating income of $208 million, up for $192 million in the second quarter of 2023, with an operating margin of 10.6% relative to 12.4%.

2024 年第二季度，我們的燃油附加費前營收成長 27%，達到 19.6 億美元。我們的營業收入為 2.08 億美元，比 2023 年第二季的 1.92 億美元增加，營業利潤率為 10.6%，而 2023 年第二季為 12.4%。

We also produced adjusted net income of $146 million, up from $139 million a year earlier, along with adjusted EPS of $1.71, up from $1.59 in the prior year. Cash flow generation, as you've heard me say in the past, is always a focal point of ours. And during the second quarter, we drove nearly $250 million of net cash from operating activities well above the year earlier, $200 million. We also generated free cash flow of $151 million, which was up from $138 million.

我們的調整後淨利為 1.46 億美元，高於去年同期的 1.39 億美元；調整後每股收益為 1.71 美元，高於去年同期的 1.59 美元。正如您過去聽我說過的那樣，現金流生成始終是我們的焦點。第二季度，我們從營運活動中獲得了近 2.5 億美元的淨現金，遠高於去年同期的 2 億美元。我們也產生了 1.51 億美元的自由現金流，高於 1.38 億美元。

Before moving on to consolidated results, I want to summarize how the Daseke acquisition completed on April 1 affected our reporting. Daseke added $329 million to second quarter revenue before fuel surcharge and over $23 million to our operating income, both reflected in our truckload business segment. In addition, our consolidated corporate level results reflect a nonrecurring restructuring charge of $20 million related to the Daseke acquisition, which I'll touch on in a moment and which we've adjusted for the consolidated results, I just reviewed, specifically, adjusted net income and adjusted EPS.

在討論合併結果之前，我想先總結一下 4 月 1 日完成的 Daseke 收購對我們的報告有何影響。 Daseke 在第二季扣除燃油附加費前的收入增加了 3.29 億美元，營業收入增加了超過 2,300 萬美元，這兩項都反映在我們的卡車業務部門。此外，我們的綜合企業層面業績反映了與Daseke 收購相關的2000 萬美元的非經常性重組費用，我稍後會談到這一點，我們已經針對綜合業績進行了調整，我剛剛審查了，特別是調整後的淨值收入和調整後每股收益。

Let's talk about overall strategy. Our second quarter results, and in particular, our robust cash flow generation even during this slower stretch of North American freight reflects a number of positive factors. In addition to the hard work of our team and our laser focus on getting the fundamentals of the business right, our financial results should continue to benefit from as I referred to last quarter, the very tangible opportunity to drive even stronger LTL results.

我們來談談整體策略。我們第二季的業績，特別是即使在北美貨運放緩的時期，我們強勁的現金流產生也反映了許多積極因素。除了我們團隊的辛勤工作和我們對業務基本面的高度關注之外，我們的財務業績應該繼續受益於我上季度提到的推動更強勁零擔業績的切實機會。

We will continue to extract costs while at the same time driving top line expansion through service quality. On both counts, we still have a lot of work to do. Similarly, our recently completed Daseke acquisition brings opportunities on which we've already started executing to reduce cost and improve performance.

我們將繼續壓縮成本，同時透過服務品質推動營收擴張。在這兩方面，我們還有很多工作要做。同樣，我們最近完成的 Daseke 收購帶來了機會，我們已經開始執行這些機會來降低成本並提高績效。

Now turning to our business segment. We've now aggregated P&C into our LTL. Over time, P&C has become a smaller portion of our overall business, especially following the Daseke acquisition. So we will now report as three segments, and we believe that this move will help simplify and add transparency to investor understanding, all the operational details are still in our quarterly report, and we can discuss anything you'd like during our Q&A.

現在轉向我們的業務部門。我們現在已將 P&C 匯總到 LTL 中。隨著時間的推移，財產與意外險已成為我們整體業務的一小部分，尤其是在收購 Daseke 之後。因此，我們現在將報告為三個部分，我們相信此舉將有助於簡化並增加投資者理解的透明度，所有營運細節仍在我們的季度報告中，我們可以在問答中討論您想要的任何內容。

So with that, let's start with LTL, which was 40% of segment revenue before fuel surcharge during the quarter. We grew our revenue before fuel surcharge 1% year-over-year, while our operating income was up 2%, reflecting a slight increase in our operating margin.

那麼，讓我們從零擔開始，佔本季燃油附加費前部門收入的 40%。我們的燃油附加費前收入年增 1%，營業收入成長 2%，反映出我們的營業利潤率略有增加。

So within LTL, starting with US-based operation, our revenue before fuel surcharge was $548 million, essentially flat relative to the prior year period, while our operating income climbed to $51 million, up from $47 million. Our US LTL tonnage was up 8%, and our revenue per shipment was up 7%, reflecting our focus on quality of freight and quality of revenue. Our operating ratio for US LTL was 90.8%, 70 basis points better than last year and our return on invested capital was 15.4%.

因此，在零擔運輸方面，從美國業務開始，我們的燃油附加費前收入為 5.48 億美元，與上年同期基本持平，而我們的營業收入則從 4700 萬美元攀升至 5100 萬美元。我們的美國零擔噸位成長了 8%，每批貨物的收入成長了 7%，反映出我們對貨運品質和收入品質的關注。我們的美國零擔營運率為 90.8%，比去年提高 70 個基點，投資資本報酬率為 15.4%。

On the Canadian side of LTL, we generated revenue before fuel surcharge of $144 million, up 12% the past year with operating income of $35 million, up from $34 million. Our numbers of shipment was up 14%, although weight per shipment and revenue per shipment declined 4.5% and 1.2%, respectively. We had an OR of 75.6% and our return invested capital for Canadian LTL was 19.1%.

在加拿大零擔運輸方面，我們的燃油附加費前收入為 1.44 億美元，去年成長了 12%，營業收入從 3,400 萬美元增至 3,500 萬美元。儘管每批貨物的重量和每批貨物的收入分別下降了 4.5% 和 1.2%，但我們的發貨數量增加了 14%。我們的 OR 為 75.6%，加拿大 LTL 的投資資本報酬率為 19.1%。

Lastly, with LTL, our P&C operation drove $109 million of revenue before fuel surcharge compared to $116 million in the prior year period, with operating income of $24 million relative to $27 million last year. We have and OR of 77.9% and return on invested capital P&C was a very strong 24.2%.

最後，透過零擔運輸，我們的財產險業務在燃油附加費前實現了 1.09 億美元的收入，而去年同期為 1.16 億美元，營業收入為 2,400 萬美元，而去年同期為 2,700 萬美元。我們的 OR 為 77.9%，P&C 投資資本回報率為 24.2%，非常強勁。

Turning to truckload. This business segment was 37% of segment revenue before fuel surcharge. Daseke integration is off to a fast start with a quick reduction in costs resulting to the onetime charge during the quarter. We produced truckload revenue before fuel surcharge of $738 million as compared to $411 million in the prior year, benefiting from the Daseke acquisition.

轉向卡車裝載。該業務分部佔燃油附加費前分部收入的37%。 Daseke 整合快速啟動，成本迅速降低，導致本季一次性收費。由於對 Daseke 的收購，我們在燃油附加費前的整車收入為 7.38 億美元，而前一年為 4.11 億美元。

Our truckload operating income of $83 million was up from $66 million, also worth noting, our truckload OR came in at an impressive 88.7% given where we are in the freight cycle. An indication we're executing well and that our unique specialized end market are proving more resilient.

我們的卡車裝載營業收入從 6,600 萬美元增加到 8,300 萬美元，同樣值得注意的是，考慮到我們在貨運週期中的位置，我們的卡車裝載 OR 達到了令人印象深刻的 88.7%。這表明我們執行得很好，並且我們獨特的專業終端市場被證明更具彈性。

Digging deeper into truckload within specialized operation, we produced revenue before fuel surcharge of $665 million, up from $335 million, largely due to the Daseke acquisition with operating income of $75 million, up from $54 million in the prior year period.

深入挖掘專業營運中的卡車裝載量，我們的燃油附加費前收入從 3.35 億美元增加到 6.65 億美元，這主要是由於收購了 Daseke，營業收入從去年同期的 5,400 萬美元增加到 7,500 萬美元。

We saw increased productivity with revenue per truck per week, up 2% before fuel surcharge, while growing our truck count more than 70% with the acquisition. In addition, our specialized Truckload OR was 88.7%, as I mentioned, and our return on invested capital came in at 7.3%, which I'll remind you includes only one quarter of contribution from Daseke, and therefore, should strengthen over the coming year.

我們看到生產率得到了提高，每輛卡車每週的收入在燃油附加費之前增長了 2%，同時透過此次收購，我們的卡車數量增加了 70% 以上。此外，正如我所提到的，我們的專業卡車裝載OR 為88.7%，我們的投資資本回報率為7.3%，我要提醒您的是，這僅包括Daseke 貢獻的四分之一，因此，在未來一段時間內應該會加強年。

Turning to the Canadian-based conventional truckload. We produced revenue before fuel surcharge of $76 million, down just slightly from the past year, while our operating income of $8 million compares to $12 million in the year ago quarter. Our Canadian OR was 89.3%, while our return on invested capital was only 8.9%.

轉向加拿大的傳統卡車裝載量。我們的燃油附加費前收入為 7,600 萬美元，比去年略有下降，而我們的營業收入為 800 萬美元，而去年同期為 1,200 萬美元。我們的加拿大 OR 為 89.3%，而我們的投資資本回報率僅為 8.9%。

In wrapping up our business segment discussion, logistics was 22% of segment revenue before fuel surcharge and is performing very well. Our revenue before fuel surcharge was up 22% in the past year and operating income was up 54%. In the second quarter, our logistics operating margin was 11.4%, which has improved from 9.1% a year earlier, and our return on invested capital was a very solid 20.5%.

在結束我們對業務部門的討論時，物流佔燃油附加費前部門收入的 22%，表現非常好。去年，我們的燃油附加費前收入成長了 22%，營業收入成長了 54%。第二季度，我們的物流營運利潤率為 11.4%，較去年同期的 9.1% 有所改善，投資資本回報率為 20.5%，非常穩健。

So let's move on to our liquidity and balance sheet. So during the quarter -- during the second quarter, we generated free cash flow of $151 million. That's up from $138 million a year earlier and we end up June with a funded debt-to-EBITDA ratio of 2.15. This strong financial position is a key start of our approach to the business that allows us to strategically invest regardless of the economic cycle while also returning capital to shareholders whenever possible.

那麼讓我們繼續討論我們的流動性和資產負債表。因此，在第二季度，我們產生了 1.51 億美元的自由現金流。這高於一年前的 1.38 億美元，截至 6 月份，融資債務與 EBITDA 的比率為 2.15。這種強大的財務狀況是我們業務方針的關鍵起點，使我們能夠在不受經濟週期影響的情況下進行策略性投資，同時盡可能向股東返還資本。

Speaking of investment and returning capital during the second quarter, in addition to Daseke, we made four other smaller acquisitions and none other small acquisitions subsequent to the quarter. Also in June, our Board declared a quarterly dividend that is 14% higher than a year earlier at $0.40 per share that was paid on July 15.

說到第二季度的投資和資本回報，除了 Daseke 之外，我們還進行了四次較小的收購，並在本季度之後進行了其他小型收購。同樣在 6 月，我們的董事會宣布季度股息為每股 0.40 美元，比去年同期高出 14%，並於 7 月 15 日支付。

Before opening the Q&A, I'll provide a quick review of our full-year guidance, which is unchanged. From what we provided on our last call. Specifically, we look for EPS to be in the range of $6.75 to $7. We expect full-year free cash flow to be in the range of $825 million to $900 million with net CapEx of $275 million to $300 million. In addition, we still intend to pay down $500 million to $600 million of debt this year and we repaid a little over $100 million in Q2. With that, operator, I'd be happy to take questions. If you could please open the lines.

在開始問答之前，我將快速回顧我們的全年指引，該指引沒有變化。根據我們上次通話中提供的資訊。具體來說，我們預計每股收益將在 6.75 美元至 7 美元之間。我們預計全年自由現金流將在 8.25 億美元至 9 億美元之間，淨資本支出為 2.75 億美元至 3 億美元。此外，我們今年仍打算償還 5 億至 6 億美元的債務，第二季償還了略多於 1 億美元的債務。接線員，我很樂意回答問題。如果可以的話請打開線路。

(Operator Instructions) Ravi Shanker, Morgan Stanley.

（操作員指令）Ravi Shanker，摩根士丹利。

Thank you. Good morning. Alain. We've heard from some of your US trucking peers that they're seeing better seasonality in 2Q, some signs of project business and some tightening in the market, we see that in the data as well. Would you underwrite that view? And are you getting any more optimistic by the cycle in the back half? Or do you think it's still too early?

謝謝。早安.阿蘭.我們從一些美國卡車運輸同行那裡聽說，他們在第二季度看到了更好的季節性，一些項目業務的跡像以及市場的一些緊縮，我們在數據中也看到了這一點。你同意這個觀點嗎？您在後半段的週期中是否變得更加樂觀？還是你認為現在還太早？

It's too early, Ravi. I mean what we're seeing us is that it's still more of the same. It's still a very, very difficult market right now. If we look at the US, our specialty truckload, I mean we're still having pressure on rates per mile, although the guys are doing a good job of having the trucks on the road and moving freight around.

現在還太早，拉維。我的意思是，我們所看到的情況仍然是一樣的。目前這仍然是一個非常非常困難的市場。如果我們看看美國，我們的特殊卡車裝載量，我的意思是我們仍然面臨著每英里費率的壓力，儘管這些人在讓卡車上路和運輸貨物方面做得很好。

But I would say that '24 is going to be a difficult year. This is why we have not changed our guidance. We still think that the guidance that we provided in Q1 is attainable for the year. But when I look at the global, North American market, the US and Canada, I think that Q3 and Q4 will still going to be difficult quarters. '25 may be a different story, hopefully. But what we're seeing right now is our focus is to do more or less is to be more efficient. If you look at what we've done so far with Daseke on the truckload side, I mean, we're attacking costs like there's no tomorrow.

但我想說，24 年將會是艱難的一年。這就是我們沒有改變指導方針的原因。我們仍然認為我們在第一季提供的指導在今年是可以實現的。但當我審視全球、北美市場、美國和加拿大時，我認為第三季和第四季仍將是困難的季度。希望25年的故事可能會有所不同。但我們現在看到的是，我們的重點是做更多或更少的事情來提高效率。如果你看看我們迄今為止在卡車裝載方面對 Daseke 所做的事情，我的意思是，我們正在努力降低成本，就像沒有明天一樣。

And that's how we're able to bring an 88% OR combined with our, with our own operating truckload business that was last year an 85%, something 85.7%, I think. So now, Ravi, I think let's be conservative, okay? I hope I'm wrong, right? I hope that things will get better, but I don't have this sense right now.

這就是我們如何能夠實現 88% 的 OR 與我們自己運營的卡車業務相結合，去年是 85%，我想是 85.7%。所以現在，拉維，我想我們要保守一點，好嗎？我希望我錯了，對吧？我希望事情會變得更好，但我現在沒有這種感覺。

Understood. And maybe as a follow-up on the LTL side. How are you seeing the environment right now? Obviously, there's some idiosyncratic kind of factors there on the capacity side as well. Do you think the market is tightening enough to support pricing to the cycle? Or are you concerned about too much capacity there, maybe kind of losing the streams a little bit?

明白了。也許作為零擔方面的後續行動。現在看到的環境怎麼樣？顯然，容量方面也存在一些特殊的因素。您認為市場的緊縮程度是否足以支持週期定價？或者您擔心那裡的容量太大，可能會稍微丟失一些流？

No, I think that we will win the war US on LTL being more efficient is by reducing our cost. Our costs are way too high. Our admin costs are way too high. Our fleet cost is too high. And for us, our focus at TForce Freight is really, really to be more lean and mean, to be more efficient. For sure, we are implementing new technology within this company in terms of linehaul, in terms of billing, master file and all that. But still, if I look at my IT costs as a percent of revenue is way too high, and it's also true at Daseke. I mean if you look at our IT at Daseke twice as much as the TFI truckload IT costs as a percent of revenue.

不，我認為我們將透過降低成本來贏得美國零擔運輸戰爭的勝利，提高效率。我們的成本太高了。我們的管理成本太高了。我們的車隊成本太高了。對我們來說，TForce Freight 的重點確實是更精簡、更有效率、更有效率。當然，我們正在該公司內部在線路傳輸、計費、主文件等方面實施新技術。但是，如果我將 IT 成本視為收入的百分比，那就太高了，在 Daseke 也是如此。我的意思是，如果你看看我們 Daseke 的 IT 成本佔收入的百分比，是 TFI 整車 IT 成本的兩倍。

So for us, really, Ravi, the name of the game to our US LTL to break that 90% OR once and for all, is all our costs. Hopefully, the market stays okay. I mean the market is not, not that strong. I mean if you look at what's going on right now. I mean our shipment count, I'll say, is steady, but it's not growing. I mean what we are able to do is to grow the weight and grow the revenue per shipment that's why we're able to do that so far.

所以對我們來說，拉維，我們美國零擔運輸的遊戲名稱，打破 90% 或一勞永逸，就是我們的全部成本。希望市場保持良好。我的意思是市場沒有那麼強。我的意思是如果你看看現在發生的事情。我的意思是，我們的發貨數量是穩定的，但沒有成長。我的意思是，我們能夠做的是增加重量並增加每次發貨的收入，這就是我們迄今為止能夠做到這一點的原因。

But we still don't have our cost down in terms of reducing the miles for our P&D, improving our density. We're still not there. We still have a lot of work to do.

但在減少 P&D 里程、提高密度方面，我們的成本仍然沒有降低。我們還沒到那裡。我們還有很多工作要做。

Understood. Thank you, Alain.

明白了。謝謝你，阿蘭。

Thank you, Ravi.

謝謝你，拉維。

Ken Hoexter, Bank of America.

肯‧霍克斯特，美國銀行。

Hi, great. Good morning, Alain --

嗨，太好了。早安，阿蘭——

Morning, Ken.

早安，肯。

Just picking on the Ravi's kind of topic on the backdrop, maybe a little bit more on the LTL side. You mentioned it's all about cost, but as you get peers opening more facilities, you had a peer this morning talk about more lightweight volumes that are kind of disrupting their network. It looked like your revenue per shipment ex fuel decelerated, it was down sequentially. Maybe talk about the rate environment on the LTL side.

只是在背景上挑選拉維的主題，也許在零擔方面多一點。您提到這一切都與成本有關，但是當您讓同行開放更多設施時，今天早上您有一位同行談論了更輕量級的捲，這會擾亂他們的網絡。看起來您的每批貨物（不含燃料）的收入有所下降，連續下降。也許談談零擔方面的費率環境。

Yeah. Very good question, Ken. And for sure, I mean, what we're seeing a lot of RFPs, we're seeing a lot of pressure, because the market, like I said earlier, is still soft. I mean -- so it's a fact. I mean, we've lost a major player a year ago in the industry, but it seems like we're back to square one in terms of volume. So this is why my comment is so important that our focus for us is to keep what we've got in terms of volume, try to improve it, try to grow it slowly.

是的。很好的問題，肯。當然，我的意思是，我們看到了很多 RFP，我們看到了很大的壓力，因為正如我之前所說，市場仍然疲軟。我的意思是——所以這是事實。我的意思是，一年前我們失去了該行業的一位主要參與者，但就數量而言，我們似乎又回到了原點。因此，這就是為什麼我的評論如此重要，我們的重點是保持我們現有的數量，嘗試改進它，嘗試緩慢增長它。

But for us, the name of the game is we need -- we're too fat. I mean, we've got too much cost, okay? If you compare our US costs versus the way we do business in Canada, I mean we are like too -- way too fat. So we have to attack the costs. Our IT costs are too high. Our fleet management costs, maintenance costs is too high, et cetera, et cetera. So this is us. I mean, we have to do the job. Now the market, is the market going to help us? I don't think so, right?

但對我們來說，遊戲的名稱是我們需要——我們太胖了。我的意思是，我們的成本太高了，好嗎？如果你將我們在美國的成本與我們在加拿大的經營方式進行比較，我的意思是我們也太胖了。所以我們必須降低成本。我們的IT成本太高了。我們的車隊管理成本、維修成本太高等等。這就是我們。我的意思是，我們必須完成這項工作。現在市場，市場會幫助我們嗎？我不這麼認為，對吧？

Like you could hear from some of our peers. If you look at the best player in the US, I mean, those guys are doing really well. Why? Because they -- they're better. Way better than us on managing costs, right? So this is what we're trying to do. And that's how we're going to be able to break that glass ceiling that we've been stuck with 90%-something OR.

就像您可以從我們的一些同行那裡聽到的那樣。如果你看看美國最好的球員，我的意思是，那些人表現得非常好。為什麼？因為他們——他們更好。在管理成本方面比我們好得多，對吧？這就是我們正在努力做的事情。這就是我們如何打破 90% 的玻璃天花板。

We want to go under this 90% OR. But the way we're going to win in '24 and '25 is by being lean and mean, reducing our costs, doing a better job, okay, all over the place on our cost. Now what's also helping us, like I said many times, Ken, is finally in '24 we have financial information by terminal. So for sure, this is going to be a huge help, okay? But if you have a manager that sits on his hand, well, that's not going to help us.

我們希望低於這個 90% OR。但我們要在 24 年和 25 年取勝的方法是精益求精，降低成本，做得更好，好吧，在我們的成本方面。現在，正如我多次說過的，肯，對我們也有幫助的是，我們終於在 24 年透過終端獲得了財務資訊。所以可以肯定的是，這將是一個巨大的幫助，好嗎？但如果你有一位任由教練掌控的經理，那麼這對我們沒有任何幫助。

So these guys have to go, and they have to be replaced by a manager that wants to do things and wants to reduce costs and be more efficient and manage not just delivery of freight but manage all the cost, the employee costs, the relationship with customers, et cetera, et cetera. So we have a big job to do. Don't forget, we bought TForce Freight three years ago. Okay? We made a lot of improvement there, but we're still running at just at 90% OR operation, right? 90%-point-something, 90.8% in Q2 right?

因此，這些人必須離開，他們必須被一位想要做事、想要降低成本、提高效率的經理所取代，他不僅要管理貨運，還要管理所有成本、員工成本、與客戶的關係。等等，等等。因此，我們有一項艱鉅的任務要做。別忘了，我們三年前收購了 TForce Freight。好的？我們在那裡做了很多改進，但我們仍然以 90% 的 OR 運算運行，對嗎？ 90% 左右，第二季是 90.8%，對吧？

So we have a long way to go to get to the 85%. And for us, I don't see the market '24, '25 helping us too much. I think this is all us. We have to do the job.

所以要達到85%，我們還有很長的路要走。對我們來說，我不認為 24、25 年的市場對我們有太大幫助。我想這就是我們所有人。我們必須完成這項工作。

Yeah. Let me ask a quick follow-up on logistics, right, which usually, I don't know if -- would you call that, I mean solid results there. Would that be an early indication of some sort of turn? Or would you look at it and say, wow, that's just benefiting from the weak market? Or is it even last mile, not even an indication of the logistics side?

是的。讓我問一下關於物流的快速跟進，對吧，通常，我不知道——你會這麼稱呼嗎，我的意思是那裡有紮實的結果。這是否是某種轉變的早期跡象？或者你會看著它並說，哇，這只是從疲軟的市場中受益？或者甚至是最後一英里，甚至沒有物流方面的指示？

Ken, our logistics results are second to none. I mean when you look at that, we're very proud of what the guys are doing over there. I mean -- and they will continue to improve. They will continue to improve and we made a fantastic acquisition a year ago when we bought JHT. I think we have more to come in that sector, probably, hopefully, and for sure, we're in business to make money.

肯，我們的物流成果是首屈一指的。我的意思是，當你看到這一點時，我們為這些人在那裡所做的事情感到非常自豪。我的意思是——他們將繼續改進。他們將繼續改進，一年前我們收購了 JHT，這是一次很棒的收購。我認為我們在這個領域還有更多的機會，可能，希望如此，可以肯定的是，我們做生意是為了賺錢。

We don't like returns of 2%, 3%, 4%, 5%, 6%. So this is why if you look at our OR, for the first time, we broke the 90%, okay? We've never been under 90% OR in our logistics. For the first time now, we are under 90%. As a matter of fact, even under 89%. So we feel good because like I said, on M&A side, on the US side, we are looking at two sectors really only right now. It's either an LTL play or a logistics play for '25.

我們不喜歡2%、3%、4%、5%、6%的報酬率。這就是為什麼如果你看看我們的 OR，我們第一次突破了 90%，好嗎？我們的物流效率從未低於 90%。現在我們第一次低於 90%。事實上，甚至低於89%。所以我們感覺很好，因為就像我說的，在併購方面，在美國方面，我們現在只專注在兩個行業。這要么是零擔運輸，要么是 25 年的物流。

I mean, because -- I mean, we've been busy in '24 with Daseke. We're also busy, okay, with small tuck-ins, mostly in Canada, okay, because it's easy for us to do small tuck-ins in Canada because we have a bench strength by second to none. So -- but in '25, we're getting ready. This is why, if you look at my leverage right now, I'm at 2.15, something like that. Our plan is to be -- by reimbursing debt, like I mentioned on the call, we're going to be at 175 probably by year-end, right? TFI, it's a cash flow machine, a free cash flow machine.

我的意思是，因為——我的意思是，24 年我們和 Daseke 一直很忙。我們也很忙，好吧，主要是在加拿大，因為我們有首屈一指的替補實力，所以在加拿大很容易做小型折身運動。所以 - 但在 25 年，我們已經準備好了。這就是為什麼，如果你現在看看我的槓桿率，我的槓桿率為 2.15，類似的原因。我們的計劃是——透過償​​還債務，就像我在電話中提到的那樣，到年底我們可能會達到 175，對吧？ TFI，它是一台現金流機，一台自由現金流機。

Yeah. I was just wondering if there was just an indication of the market. I get you're doing a great job. Just if it's telling you --

是的。我只是想知道是否只是市場的一個跡象。我知道你做得很好。只是如果它告訴你——

I don't think it's a market, hey, Ken, I don't think it's the market. I think it's our guys that are doing a fantastic job. But we'll see. I mean, when the -- an RFPs comes up, I mean, we'll have a better understanding.

我不認為這是一個市場，嘿，肯，我不認為這是一個市場。我認為我們的球員做得非常出色。但我們會看到。我的意思是，當 RFP 出現時，我們會有更好的理解。

Wonderful. Thanks Alain. Appreciate that.

精彩的。謝謝阿蘭。很欣賞這一點。

Thank you, Ken.

謝謝你，肯。

Walter Spracklin, RBC Capital Markets.

沃爾特‧斯普拉克林 (Walter Spracklin)，加拿大皇家銀行資本市場部。

Yeah. Thanks very much operator. Alain. Good morning.

是的。非常感謝運營商。阿蘭.早安.

Good morning, Walter.

早上好，沃特。

If you could touch a little bit on your trends towards your target of US LTL 88%, you referenced it in your -- earlier in the call. I'm just noticing you're at about a 92% year-to-date in your US LTL (multiple speakers) 85%-ish for the rest of the year to hit the 88%. Is that still an achievable target?

如果您能稍微談談實現美國零擔 88% 目標的趨勢，您在早些時候的電話會議中提到了這一點。我只是注意到，今年迄今為止，您的美國 LTL（多個發言者）的利用率約為 92%，今年剩餘時間將達到 88%。這仍然是一個可以實現的目標嗎？

No.

不。

And can you talk about what will cause you to do that step down?

您能談談什麼會導致您做出這樣的決定嗎？

No, no, Walter. I mean, for sure for the year, 88%, as I see it right now, it's impossible. What we're trying to do between now and the end of the year is to break the 90%, okay, in Q2 and Q4, right? When we look at our plan in the fall of '23, when I listen to our guys, our team, we thought that we would grow our shipment count at the same time as reduce costs.

不，不，沃爾特。我的意思是，就我現在看來，今年肯定有 88%，這是不可能的。從現在到年底，我們要做的就是在第二季和第四季突破 90%，對吧？當我們在 23 年秋季審視我們的計劃時，當我聽取我們的團隊成員的意見時，我們認為我們會在降低成本的同時增加發貨數量。

So what we're seeing is we're not growing our shipment counts. I mean our shipment count is steady eddy, about the same, okay? And we anticipate that probably by year-end, I mean, we're still maybe going to grow the shipment count a little bit but not much. So really, the name of the game to break the 90% OR is going to be all cost for us, reduction of our cost in the Q3 and in Q4 to finally break this 90%, which has been a difficult task for us to do.

所以我們看到的是我們的發貨數量沒有增加。我的意思是我們的發貨數量是穩定的渦流，大約相同，好嗎？我的意思是，我們預計到年底，我們的出貨量可能仍會略有增加，但不會增加太多。所以說真的，打破 90% OR 的遊戲名稱將是我們的全部成本，在第三季和第四季降低我們的成本，最終突破 90%，這對我們來說是一項艱鉅的任務。

And going into '25 though, if market condition stays about the same as '24, I think that we'll be able to be on a yearly basis, okay, under the 90% OR. But if you look at what we have done so far, after six months, like you said, we're 92%. So I believe that with our cost control and implementation of better productivity, we'll be probably in the same market condition in '25, we'll be able to show after six months of '25, under 90%, okay? If we keep working at attacking our cost.

不過，進入 25 年，如果市場狀況與 24 年大致相同，我認為我們將能夠每年保持在 90% OR 之下。但如果你看看我們迄今為止所做的事情，六個月後，就像你說的，我們已經完成了 92%。因此，我相信，透過我們的成本控制和實現更好的生產力，我們可能會在 25 年處於相同的市場狀況，我們將能夠在 25 年六個月後展示，低於 90%，好嗎？如果我們繼續努力降低成本。

Okay. That's great. And just on the follow-up to the macro, just a few small questions here. Like you mentioned you don't -- you're not calling for an upturn. I'm curious if you would at least -- do you see it as a bottoming. I know a few of your peers have said they believe at least it's not getting worse.

好的。那太棒了。關於宏觀的後續，這裡只是幾個小問題。就像你提到的，你沒有呼籲經濟好轉。我很好奇你是否至少將其視為觸底。我知道你們的一些同行表示，他們相信至少情況沒有變得更糟。

And whether an upturn comes or not, may be delayed, but at least it's bottoming, and then are you seeing any positive or negative impact from shipper diversions that are avoiding the Canadian rail strike? I know CN and CP have called out some diversions away from their lanes in worrying about a strike. Is that impacting you at all, either positive or negative?

無論經濟好轉與否，都可能會被推遲，但至少它正在觸底，那麼您是否看到托運人轉移以避免加拿大鐵路罷工的任何積極或消極影響？我知道 CN 和 CP 已經呼籲一些人離開他們的車道，因為擔心罷工。這對你有影響嗎，無論是正面的還是負面的？

You know what, Walter, when they started talking about a strike in Canada two months ago, yes, we saw a little bit of that but you know what, us, we run a lot of stuff on the rail, right? So it's a positive on one side, but it's also a negative on the other side because if you look at our intermodal LTL the minute these guys started to talk about strike.

你知道嗎，沃爾特，當他們兩個月前開始談論加拿大的罷工時，是的，我們看到了一些，但你知道嗎，我們在鐵路上運行了很多東西，對吧？因此，一方面這是積極的，但另一方面也是消極的，因為如果你在這些人開始談論罷工的那一刻看看我們的聯運零擔。

I mean, they start moving our LTL that's today run on the rail moving on the road. So for us, it's not that good to have a strike with the rail guys. I mean hopefully, these guys could settle and get this thing behind us.

我的意思是，他們開始將我們今天在鐵路上運行的零擔貨物轉移到公路上。所以對我們來說，和鐵路工人一起罷工並不是一件好事。我的意思是希望這些人能夠安定下來並把這件事拋在腦後。

Now in terms of -- have we hit the bottom? That's probably right. I mean, can we see this thing getting worse? I don't think so. But I don't see that major improvement in '24. I think it's going to be more the same, okay, for the rest of the year.

現在，我們已經觸底了嗎？這可能是對的。我的意思是，我們能看到事情變得更糟嗎？我不這麼認為。但我沒有看到 24 年有重大改進。我認為今年剩下的時間情況會更加相同。

And hopefully, okay, things will start improving. Now don't forget there's also a US election in November, right? So depending on who takes over, it could also change things in '25. So we don't know that. But us, I mean, we are really focused on what we can do ourselves, which is we can't control the market. The market is the market, so we can't control the market, but what we can control is our costs and we're trying to be way better, okay?

希望事情會開始好轉。現在別忘了 11 月還有美國大選，對吧？因此，取決於誰接任，它也可能改變 25 年的情況。所以我們不知道。但我們，我的意思是，我們真正專注於我們自己能做的事情，那就是我們無法控制市場。市場就是市場，所以我們無法控制市場，但我們可以控制的是我們的成本，我們正在努力做得更好，好嗎？

If you look at our US LTL, we have a lot of work to do there. If you look at our Canadian LTL, we're doing quite well. If you look at our P&C, I mean, yes, we had a little bit of a soft patch in Q1, but we are improving in Q2, and we'll keep improving in Q3 and 4 and into '25. So if you look at our specialty truckload, I'm really proud of what Steve Brookshaw has done with his team with Daseke's team there. I mean, like I said on Q1's call, the Daseke thing there, I mean, we're going to run Daseke sub-90% OR within a year.

如果你看看我們的美國零擔運輸，你會發現我們還有很多工作要做。如果您看看我們的加拿大零擔運輸，我們的表現相當不錯。如果你看看我們的P&C，我的意思是，是的，我們在第一季度有一些軟補丁，但我們在第二季度正在改進，我們將在第三季度和第四季度以及進入25 年繼續改進。因此，如果您看看我們的特殊卡車，我真的為 Steve Brookshaw 與他的團隊以及 Daseke 團隊所做的事情感到自豪。我的意思是，就像我在第一季電話會議上所說的那樣，Daseke 的事情，我的意思是，我們將在一年內將 Daseke 的運行率降低到 90%。

And I'm still very confident about that. I mean the guys are doing a good job. And like I said, just a simple IT costs, I mean we're going to have to cut the IT cost of Daseke in half to be comparable to our cost to run the business, right? So we got a lot of opportunities. And for sure, it takes a little bit of time, but I feel really good about what's going on right now.

我對此仍然非常有信心。我的意思是這些傢伙做得很好。就像我說的，只是簡單的 IT 成本，我的意思是我們必須將 Daseke 的 IT 成本削減一半，才能與我們營運業務的成本相當，對嗎？所以我們得到了很多機會。當然，這需要一點時間，但我對現在發生的事情感覺很好。

When I look at my peers in the truckload sector in the US, I mean, I think everybody is suffering big time. Is that going to change for the rest of the year? I don't think so. Is that going to be better in '25? I think so. Why? Because it's been going on for more than two years right now. So this thing has to break at one point.

當我觀察美國卡車運輸業的同行時，我的意思是，我認為每個人都在遭受巨大的痛苦。今年剩餘時間這種情況會改變嗎？我不這麼認為。 25年會更好嗎？我想是的。為什麼？因為這樣的事情已經持續了兩年多了。所以這件事必須在某個時刻破裂。

Okay, I appreciate the color Alain as always. Thank you.

好吧，我一如既往地欣賞阿蘭的顏色。謝謝。

Thank you, Walter.

謝謝你，沃特。

Tom Wadewitz, UBS.

湯姆‧瓦德維茨，瑞銀集團。

Okay. Good morning. Alain. I wanted to ask you a little more on US LTL. What's the mandate for salespeople in US LTL right now? I mean you've talked about kind of bad mix of shipments, too much distance between pickups. You've talked about maybe like heavier weight per shipment. When I look at the numbers, it looked like you did see some sequential growth in shipments, but some decline in revenue per shipment.

好的。早安.阿蘭.我想問你更多關於美國零擔的問題。目前美國零擔銷售人員的職責是什麼？我的意思是，您談到了運輸的不良組合，以及取貨之間的距離過大。您曾提到每批貨物的重量可能會更重。當我查看這些數字時，看起來您確實看到了出貨量的連續增長，但每次出貨的收入有所下降。

So I guess I was just wondering are (multiple speakers) yeah, is it focused on better mix? Is it, hey, we'll give up a little price to get more shipments? Or what's the focus you got for the salespeople in US LTL right now?

所以我想我只是想知道（多個揚聲器）是的，它是否專注於更好的混音？是不是，嘿，我們會放棄一點價格來獲得更多的出貨量？或者您現在對美國零擔業務的銷售人員來說關注的焦點是什麼？

Yeah. So the focus is, number one is, guys, we have to move the weight per shipment up because we're paid by that weight, right? So when we bought UPS rate, these guys were hauling average weight at 1,075. So now we're just a little bit above 1,200. But if you look at my peers, the average is probably 1,500. So rule number one, guys, is that we have to slowly get more into the industrial freight okay, versus the retail freight. Okay, fine. So that's -- let's say, target number one.

是的。所以重點是，第一是，夥計們，我們必須提高每批貨物的重量，因為我們是按重量付費的，對嗎？因此，當我們購買 UPS 費率時，這些人的平均重量為 1,075。所以現在我們只比 1,200 稍高一點。但如果你看看我的同齡人，平均可能是 1,500。所以第一條規則是，夥計們，我們必須慢慢地更多地進入工業貨運領域，而不是零售貨運領域。好吧，好吧。這就是——比方說，第一個目標。

Target number two for these guys is, you know what, guys, to pick up a shipment. Okay. Let's try to pick up more shipment per stop versus what we're doing now. So when you have a discussion with a customer, let's talk about getting more shipment from this guy when we go there and pick up freight, okay?

這些人的第二個目標是，你們知道嗎，夥伴們，去拿一批貨物。好的。與我們現在所做的相比，我們嘗試在每個站點接收更多的貨物。因此，當您與客戶討論時，讓我們討論一下當我們去那裡提貨時從這個人那裡獲得更多的貨物，好嗎？

Target number three is us; we have what we call within TForce Freight, a GFP, ground freight pricing. We are the only one that has a partnership with our friend, UPS. And then when we have a small shipment, small weight, okay, instead of trying to hold that freight or say we don't want to hold that rate with TForce Freight, Mr. customer, we have a solution for you, right? This is GFP.

第三個目標是我們；我們有所謂的 TForce Freight，即 GFP 地面貨運定價。我們是唯一一家與我們的朋友 UPS 建立合作夥伴關係的公司。然後，當我們有少量貨物、小重量時，好吧，而不是試圖保留該運費或說我們不想保留 TForce Freight 的費率，客戶先生，我們為您提供了解決方案，對嗎？這是綠色螢光蛋白。

Now if you look at my GFP, okay, it's been a year that we went through a lot of issues with GFP because there was some, some customers that were cheating the system at UPS. These guys got caught up. We have to cut them off, blah, blah, blah. So our revenue at GFP is down big time. But now all these issues have been resolved between us and our partner. And now we are ready to go and start growing that.

現在，如果你看看我的 GFP，好吧，這一年我們遇到了很多 GFP 問題，因為有一些客戶欺騙了 UPS 的系統。這些傢伙被抓住了。我們必須切斷它們，等等，等等。因此，我們 GFP 的收入大幅下降。但現在所有這些問題都已在我們和我們的合作夥伴之間解決了。現在我們已準備好開始種植它。

So third mandate for our sales guy, wake up guys, smell the coffee. It's early in the morning. Let's sell GFP because we are the only one that can offer to a shipper, okay, a solution that is way more efficient for them and for us and for UPS. So let's try to grow that.

所以我們銷售人員的第三個任務是，叫醒大家，聞咖啡的味道。現在是凌晨。讓我們出售 GFP，因為我們是唯一一家能夠向托運人提供對他們、我們以及 UPS 更有效率的解決方案的公司。所以讓我們努力發展它。

And then last is let's focus on customers that are close by our terminal. Let's not try to get a shipment, okay, outbound from a guy that's 85 miles away from my terminal. Let's try to grow business around the terminal as much as possible so that we reduce our P&D miles. So far, okay, we've done a little bit of that. But where we are doing a much better job is on our linehaul, okay? So our linehaul now is less on rail, more road, okay? And we have a better service for sure, right? And we'll keep growing that so that our sales team, when they talk to a customer, service is less and less of an issue. So if you compare that to three years ago versus today, our service is much improved, and that is what we have to keep doing, right? So that's the mandate for our sales team.

最後，讓我們專注於靠近我們航站樓的客戶。好吧，我們不要試圖從距離我的航站樓 85 英里之外的某個人處獲取貨物。讓我們盡可能嘗試在航站樓周圍發展業務，以便減少我們的 P&D 里程。到目前為止，我們已經做了一點點。但我們在長途運輸方面做得更好，好嗎？所以我們現在的路線運輸少了鐵路，多了公路，好嗎？我們肯定有更好的服務，對吧？我們將繼續發展這一點，以便我們的銷售團隊在與客戶交談時，服務越來越不成為問題。因此，如果與三年前和今天相比，我們的服務有了很大改善，這就是我們必須繼續做的，對吧？這就是我們銷售團隊的任務。

Okay. Yeah, that's very helpful. Just one quick follow-up. I think people are trying to get their arms around what's happening with the pricing dynamic and US LTL, right? And I think there's the underlying assumption that there's discipline. But it just seems like you wonder because the market is a little soft.

好的。是的，這非常有幫助。只需一個快速跟進。我認為人們正試圖了解定價動態和美國零擔運輸的情況，對吧？我認為有一個基本假設，那就是有紀律。但這似乎只是你想知道，因為市場有點疲軟。

And do you think that there is some pressure developing on price in US LTL? Or do you think it's just like hey, this is normal and freight is a little bit soft, and there's still good discipline in the market.

您認為美國零擔價格是否面臨一些壓力？或者你認為這就像嘿，這是正常的，運費有點軟，而且市場仍然有良好的紀律。

You know what, Tom, that's a very, very good question, because for sure, when we look at guys adding doors, adding capacity, then we say, oh, that doesn't look too good. But we can't control that, right? We can control what some of our peers are doing. So this is why when I talk to my guys, hey guys, we have to be lean. We have to be on a diet, okay?

你知道嗎，湯姆，這是一個非常非常好的問題，因為可以肯定的是，當我們看到人們增加門、增加容量時，我們會說，哦，這看起來不太好。但我們無法控制它，對嗎？我們可以控制一些同行的行為。所以這就是為什麼當我和我的伙伴們說話時，嘿夥計們，我們必須精益。我們必須節食，好嗎？

We have to reduce our cost because if something happens to the quality of revenue in this market, although it's never happened last, if you look at the last 10 years, I mean this industry, the US LTL has got price increases, et cetera, et cetera. But there could be some concern where a few players are adding so much capacity that maybe if the market is not growing, okay, there could be pressure on rates. So how do you win? How do you win with that kind of an environment?

我們必須降低成本，因為如果這個市場的收入品質發生問題，儘管最近從未發生過，但如果你看看過去 10 年，我的意思是這個行業，美國 LTL 價格上漲，等等，等等。但可能會出現一些擔憂，一些參與者增加瞭如此多的產能，如果市場沒有成長，那麼利率可能會面臨壓力。那麼你如何獲勝呢？在這樣的環境下你要如何獲勝？

Well, we have to become in the US like we are in Canada, because in Canada, we have a lot of competition with some guys that don't like to make money. Okay, like Purolator owned by Canada Post, the focus there is not to make money. So we have those guys here. We have other guys in Canada that trucking is a sideline for them. So they're not really focused about making money in the trucking segment.

嗯，我們在美國必須像在加拿大一樣，因為在加拿大，我們與一些不喜歡賺錢的人有很多競爭。好吧，就像加拿大郵政旗下的 Purolator 一樣，重點不是賺錢。所以我們這裡有這些人。我們在加拿大還有其他人，卡車運輸是他們的副業。因此，他們並不是真正專注於在貨運領域賺錢。

So we have that kind of competition in Canada, and we are successful. If ever this happens in the US, I think it will be short term, okay? But it still could be happening. And that's when I'm talking to Bob McGonigal and Keith say, guys, let's go on a diet. We have to reduce costs. That's the only way that we're going to break this 90%, okay?

所以我們在加拿大有這樣的競爭，而且我們取得了成功。如果這種情況發生在美國，我認為這將是短期的，好嗎？但它仍然有可能發生。就在那時，我和鮑勃·麥格尼格爾交談，基斯說，夥計們，讓我們節食吧。我們必須降低成本。這是我們突破 90% 的唯一方法，好嗎？

Hopefully, the market will help us. But if it doesn't, I mean we have to be really better. So our IT costs at TForce rates are way too high. But don't forget, I mean this is -- until a year ago, we were stuck with the TSA moving away from UPS. But that's behind us now, okay? But we have old tools, old software so that we are replacing, okay, I get that. But this is going to end at one point so that we could start reducing our cost. To manage the freight, okay. We have to be a single digit as a percent of revenue. Right now, we're not.

希望市場能夠幫助我們。但如果沒有，我的意思是我們必須做得更好。因此，以 TForce 費率計算，我們的 IT 成本太高了。但請不要忘記，我的意思是，直到一年前，我們還堅持 TSA 放棄 UPS。但現在這些都已經過去了，好嗎？但我們有舊的工具、舊的軟體，所以我們正在更換，好吧，我明白了。但這將在某一時刻結束，以便我們可以開始降低成本。管理貨運，好。我們的收入百分比必須是個位數。現在，我們不是。

We are single digit in Canada. We were not in the US. So we have too many staff, too many people in the offices, and that's got to be reduced with better tools, better technology, and that's where we're going. Now if this market gets softer, if there's some pricing issues because some players are adding too much capacity. I mean, we'll just have to adjust.

我們在加拿大是個位數。我們當時不在美國。所以我們有太多的員工，辦公室裡有太多的人，必須透過更好的工具、更好的技術來減少，這就是我們的目標。現在，如果這個市場變得更加疲軟，如果因為一些參與者增加了太多產能而出現一些定價問題。我的意思是，我們只需要調整。

So you're not necessarily seeing it, but you're concerned it could happen?

所以你不一定看到它，但你擔心它會發生？

It may happen. I mean -- but at the end of the day, we don't control what's going on in the market, right? So this is my -- me, what I'm saying to my guys, guys, what I'm seeing, okay, when I see adding doors, adding doors, I see, woah huge investment, okay? And the market is not growing. So guys, hey, let's speed up the diet.

這可能會發生。我的意思是——但歸根結底，我們無法控制市場上發生的事情，對嗎？所以這就是我——我，我對我的伙伴們說的話，夥計們，我所看到的，好吧，當我看到增加門，增加門時，我明白了，哇巨大的投資，好嗎？而且市場並沒有成長。所以夥計們，嘿，讓我們加快飲食速度。

Yeah. Okay. That all make sense. Thank you for the time, Alain.

是的。好的。這一切都有道理。謝謝你抽出時間，阿蘭。

Thank you, Tom.

謝謝你，湯姆。

Brian Ossenbeck, JPMorgan.

布萊恩‧奧森貝克，摩根大通。

Good morning, Alain.

早安，阿蘭。

Good morning, Brian.

早安，布萊恩。

To ask another TForce Freight question, but maybe more on the footprint. I think you said that you were looking at potentially M&A in the LTL for next year. I don't know if that would be for the US and if you can expand on that because you still have a pretty big real estate footprint, there's still some more terminals out there from YRC that could be sold.

問另一個 TForce Freight 問題，但也許更多的是關於足跡的問題。我想您說過您正在考慮明年零擔運輸領域的潛在併購。我不知道這是否適用於美國，您是否可以擴大這一範圍，因為您仍然擁有相當大的房地產足跡，YRC 仍然有更多的終端可以出售。

So maybe you can elaborate a little bit more on that. Bigger picture, what you think the network could look like in a couple of years' time? And what are some of the bigger changes we should be focused on there potentially, whether it's divestitures or potentially some M&A?

所以也許你可以詳細說明一下。從更大的角度來看，您認為幾年後網路會是什麼樣子？我們應該關注哪些潛在的更大變化，無論是資產剝離還是潛在的併購？

You know what Brian, I think that TFI in Canada, we're second to none in LTL. I mean -- and we cannot be the number one guy in the US I don't think it's possible. But I don't want to be in the number six or number seven or number eight in terms of volume. So for sure, at one point, okay, we have to take action on the US LTL market because I still believe even with what I just said to Tom about this little bit of a concern I have with this capacity maybe. But I still think that the US LTL is the best place to be, okay?

你知道嗎，Brian，我認為 TFI 在加拿大的零擔運輸方面是首屈一指的。我的意思是──我們不可能成為美國第一，我認為這是不可能的。但就數量而言，我不想成為第六、第七或第八。因此，可以肯定的是，在某一時刻，我們必須對美國零擔市場採取行動，因為我仍然相信，即使我剛剛對湯姆說，我可能對這種能力有一點擔憂。但我還是認為美國零擔是最好的地方，好嗎？

So this is why -- and I said to Tom this may be short term, maybe it's just maybe a year, two years. But I think long term, okay, we have to be a larger player in the US LTL market. So this is why. Once we close '24, once our leverage is down to, let's say, 175 once we reduce our debt by $500 million, $600 million, like is the plan, I think that by year-end of '25, I mean we're well positioned to do more okay into the US LTL, hopefully.

這就是為什麼──我對湯姆說這可能是短期的，也許只有一年、兩年。但我認為從長遠來看，我們必須成為美國零擔市場的更大參與者。所以這就是原因。一旦我們在 24 年結束，一旦我們的槓桿率下降到，比方說，175，一旦我們將債務減少 5 億美元、6 億美元，就像計劃一樣，我認為到 25 年底，我的意思是我們希望能夠在美國零擔運輸方面做得更好。

Now, at the same time, also, we've said logistics in the US, we are doing really, really well. And we have other opportunities to keep building on that base. So this is why the two sectors, okay, that we're going to be really focused with something that could be interesting for our shareholders in those two sectors. On the truckload side, I mean, '25 is the year where we're going to be digesting all of the Daseke operation in terms of reducing IT, shedding admin costs, et cetera, et cetera. So I don't see anything upsized for us in '25 on the truckload side.

現在，同時，我們也說過，在美國的物流方面，我們做得非常非常好。我們還有其他機會在此基礎上繼續發展。因此，這就是為什麼我們將真正專注於這兩個領域的股東可能感興趣的事情。在卡車裝載量方面，我的意思是，25 年我們將在減少 IT、削減管理成本等方面消化所有 Daseke 營運。因此，我認為 25 年我們在卡車裝載量方面不會有任何增加。

But also the idea, and I'm going back to what we said when we bought Daseke is that down the road, when we have a certain size, it makes sense to have two organizations, right? Not today because the size -- our size is too small, I think. So we need to beef up a little bit in '25, '26 because at the end of the day, we want TFI to be more of a pure play down the road, okay, being, let's say, an LTL logistics company on one side and on another side, the truckload sector, which is mostly specialty truckload.

還有這個想法，我要回到我們購買 Daseke 時所說的，那就是，當我們達到某個規模時，擁有兩個組織是有意義的，對嗎？今天不行，因為我認為我們的尺寸太小了。因此，我們需要在 25 年、26 年加強一點，因為最終，我們希望 TFI 成為一家純粹的公司，好吧，比方說，成為一家零擔物流公司一側是卡車運輸行業，其中大部分是特種卡車運輸。

I would say that our truckload is at 85% specialty truckload, which is way more resilient than the down road. And you could see that when you look at my peers' result, great companies are coming out with results right now that are difficult, right?

我想說的是，我們的卡車裝載量為 85% 的特殊卡車裝載量，這比下行道路更具彈性。你可以看到，當你看看我的同行的結果時，偉大的公司現在正在拿出困難的結果，對吧？

Just follow up very quickly then in terms of the Q4 state footprints, I thought you're still trying to maybe consolidate or rationalize some of those terminals, maybe you're through that already, but it sounds like you actually want to get bigger over time. So is that just more different markets that you'd like to be in different lanes you want to fill out?

就第四季度的狀態足跡而言，請快速跟進，我認為您仍在嘗試整合或合理化其中一些終端，也許您已經完成了，但聽起來您實際上想要變得更大時間。那麼，這是否只是您想要進入不同領域的更多不同市場？

How should we think about that when at least the current book sounds like you still want to shrink that first, perhaps or maybe I'm just reading that.

當至少當前的書聽起來你仍然想先縮小它時，我們應該如何思考這個問題，也許或者也許我只是在讀它。

Brian, for sure. I mean right now, we're doing a deal with one of our peers with one terminal. So we're selling one terminal to one of our peers. Why is that? Because it makes sense for us, it's good for them. Okay. We're selling one terminal in California, South California right now to a guy that's going to demolish the terminal, right? So we have about 35% overcapacity in our doors today at TForce Freight. So for sure, it's way too much, right? So we are reducing, reducing, reducing and cashing.

布萊恩，當然。我的意思是，現在我們正在與一位同行用一個終端進行交易。因此，我們正在向一位同行出售一台終端機。這是為什麼？因為這對我們有意義，對他們也有好處。好的。我們現在正在將位於南加州加利福尼亞州的一個航站樓出售給一個將要拆除該航站樓的人，對嗎？因此，今天 TForce Freight 的運力過剩了約 35%。所以可以肯定的是，這太多了，對吧？所以我們正在減少、減少、減少、兌現。

So I believe that our real estate will generate probably between $25 million to $50 million of cash between now and the end of the year. So that's going to be used to fund our small M&A that we're doing in Canada and a little bit in the US. That will also help us reduce our debt, right?

因此，我相信從現在到今年年底，我們的房地產可能會產生 2500 萬至 5000 萬美元的現金。因此，這將用於資助我們在加拿大和美國進行的小型併購。這也將幫助我們減少債務，對嗎？

So going back to your point, no, we're not adding capacity to our network. As a matter of fact, we are reducing capacity because we know that if we are successful in buying another LTL company, probably these guys also will have overcapacity. Maybe, maybe not, that depends on who it is going to be. So this is why wait, okay?

回到你的觀點，不，我們不會增加我們的網路容量。事實上，我們正​​在削減產能，因為我們知道，如果我們成功收購另一家零擔公司，這些公司可能也會產能過剩。也許會，也許不會，這取決於是誰。所以這就是為什麼要等待，好嗎？

So we're taking action now. So as a matter of fact, we bought one terminal, okay. Well, we bought two from the YRC thing there. In Sacramento, we used to have two terminals. Now we move into one. And those two terminals are for sale, and we -- one is being sold right now. And Lexington, Kentucky, we move into the YRC terminal. And one of the sales that may happen before the year-end is our old TForce Freight Lexington terminal is being sold right now, right?

所以我們現在就採取行動。事實上，我們買了一個終端，好吧。嗯，我們從那裡的 YRC 那裡買了兩個。在薩克拉門托，我們曾經有兩個航站樓。現在我們進入其中一個。這兩個終端正在出售，而我們現在正在出售其中一個。肯塔基州列剋星敦，我們搬進 YRC 航站樓。年底前可能發生的銷售之一是我們舊的 TForce Freight Lexington 碼頭現在正在出售，對嗎？

So we are taking action to be more close to our capacity in terms of real estate because we believe that if we are able to do what we want to do add some LTL revenue into an M&A acquisition, I mean, we need to be more leaner in terms of our capacity.

因此，我們正在採取行動，以更接近我們在房地產方面的能力，因為我們相信，如果我們能夠做我們想做的事情，在併購中增加一些零擔收入，我的意思是，我們需要更加精簡我們的能力而言。

Okay, Alain. Thanks for the clarification. I appreciate it.

好吧，阿蘭。感謝您的澄清。我很感激。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Jason Seidl, TD Cowen.

賈森·塞德爾，TD·考恩。

Thank you, operator. Good morning, Alain.

謝謝你，接線生。早安，阿蘭。

Hey. Good morning, Jason.

嘿。早上好，傑森。

Two quick things here. One, I wanted to focus a little bit on the Daseke side. I think heading into your earnings print, we were a little concerned, given what we saw sort of some weaker pricing in the flatbed market. So maybe if you can sort of dive into that. Was that maybe offset by some strength in your specialty business?

這裡有兩件事。第一，我想稍微關註一下 Daseke 方面。我認為在看到您的收益報告時，我們有點擔心，因為我們看到平板市場的定價有些疲軟。所以也許你可以深入研究一下。這是否會被您的專業業務的某些優勢所抵消？

You know what, Jason, for sure. I mean if you compare year-over-year, our revenue per mile, okay, in our specialty operation in the US specialty truckload operation we're down. I mean we're down. There's no question about that. We're having price pressure in there. But at the same time, okay, our revenue per truck is up because we do a better job of reducing empty miles and et cetera, et cetera.

你當然知道，傑森。我的意思是，如果你與去年同期相比，我們每英里的收入，好吧，在我們美國特種卡車裝載業務的特種業務中，我們正在下降。我的意思是我們已經垮了。毫無疑問。我們面臨價格壓力。但同時，好吧，我們每輛卡車的收入增加了，因為我們在減少空駛里程等方面做得更好。

So I'm really happy with this Daseke acquisition in terms of the operating units. And these guys -- Daseke was a roll-up, right? And first thing that we're trying to do is to break all these walls between those operating units within Daseke. So as we speak, there's a weekly call between all of our flatbed operation in North America between US and Canada. So everybody is on the same call, talking about the market, the environment, the opportunities, et cetera, et cetera.

因此，就營運單位而言，我對 Daseke 的收購感到非常滿意。這些傢伙——Daseke 是一個匯總，對吧？我們要做的第一件事就是打破 Daseke 內部營運單位之間的所有障礙。就在我們說話的時候，我們在北美的所有平板業務部門每週都會在美國和加拿大之間進行一次通話。所以每個人都在同一個電話，談論市場、環境、機會等等。

So this is why I feel really, really good that even in a soft market because the market today is softer, we have more pressure on price, on rates per mile today than a year ago, okay? Hopefully, this starts to change, hopefully next year. I don't see that changing this year. But now we do a better job. We are more efficient, and we'll continue doing that.

因此，這就是為什麼我感覺非常非常好，即使在疲軟的市場中，因為今天的市場更加疲軟，我們今天對價格、每英里費率的壓力比一年前更大，好嗎？希望這種情況開始改變，希望明年。我認為今年這種情況不會改變。但現在我們做得更好了。我們的效率更高，我們將繼續這樣做。

So it sounds like that $0.50 accretion number is still pretty good to use?

那麼聽起來 0.50 美元的增值數字仍然很好用嗎？

Jason, we are conservative. I think that we'll do better than that, but let's be conservative, all right? So as an example, like I was saying earlier, just the IT costs. I mean, we fell off a chair when we look at the IT cost, the consultant, I mean, all these guys taking advantage of the company. I mean we're reducing that. Darren Levine, which runs our IT for our specialty truckload within TFI now is involved with the Daseke Group. I mean, these guys, like I said, I think, earlier, they used to run Oracle Finance, very expensive Oracle. They pay a way more money than us at TFI.

傑森，我們很保守。我認為我們會做得更好，但我們要保守一點，好嗎？舉個例子，就像我之前所說的，只是 IT 成本。我的意思是，當我們考慮 IT 成本時，我們從椅子上掉了下來，顧問，我的意思是，所有這些人都在利用公司。我的意思是我們正在減少這一點。 Darren Levine 負責 TFI 內特種卡車的 IT 運營，現在加入了 Daseke Group。我的意思是，這些人，就像我說的，我想，早些時候，他們曾經運行過 Oracle Finance，非常昂貴的 Oracle。他們在 TFI 付的錢比我們多得多。

So Oracle will probably be disappear within Daseke, and we're going to move all this to Infineon, use saving. And then down the road, once everybody is on Infineon, maybe we'll go back to Oracle in two to three years, but it's going to be more of a TFI Oracle, not a Daseke Oracle that cost of fortune. We have to pay Deloitte to support us, which is nonsense. So we have a lot of work to do on the admin side. At the same time, okay, we have a lot to do within the business unit to be more efficient in talking to one with the other, right, eliminating those walls between the business units.

因此，甲骨文可能會在 Daseke 中消失，我們將把所有這些轉移到英飛凌，使用節省。然後，一旦每個人都選擇英飛凌，也許我們會在兩到三年內回到甲骨文，但它將更多地成為 TFI 甲骨文，而不是需要付出巨大代價的 Daseke 甲骨文。我們必須付錢給德勤來支持我們，這是無稽之談。因此，我們在管理方面還有很多工作要做。同時，好吧，我們在業務部門內部還有很多工作要做，以便更有效地相互交談，消除業務部門之間的障礙。

That sounds good. And if I could just follow up on something Walter was asking about on the potential Canadian rail strike. I mean, do you guys already have alternative set up to sort of supplement a line haul because I can't remember the last time, both Canadian rails went on strike, and this would obviously impact your Canadian LTL linehaul, a big deal.

聽起來很好。如果我能跟進沃爾特詢問的有關加拿大潛在鐵路罷工的問題。我的意思是，你們是否已經有替代方案來補充線路運輸，因為我不記得上次加拿大鐵路都罷工了，這顯然會影響你們的加拿大零擔線路運輸，這是一件大事。

Yeah. For sure, we have a plan, Jason. Hopefully, this will not happen. And I think that the federal government will get in fast because this is going to be terrible for the Canadian economy. So, for sure, we have plans. For sure, we know what to do. And so far, between you and me, Jason, fire is more of an issue for us. Flood and fire, okay, is more of an issue than rail, rail strike. I mean, the fires is becoming a big problem, okay? And flood too.

是的。當然，我們有一個計劃，傑森。希望這不會發生。我認為聯邦政府會迅速介入，因為這對加拿大經濟來說將是可怕的。所以，可以肯定的是，我們有計劃。當然，我們知道該怎麼做。到目前為止，傑森，在你我之間，火災對我們來說更像是一個問題。好吧，洪水和火災比鐵路罷工更嚴重。我的意思是，火災正在成為一個大問題，好嗎？還有洪水。

Yeah. When I saw the news up in Jasper, that was pretty bad. Well Alain, I appreciate your time as always and have your guys stay safe out there for sure.

是的。當我在賈斯珀看到這個消息時，情況非常糟糕。好吧，阿蘭，我一如既往地感謝您的寶貴時間，並確保您的人員在外面保持安全。

Thank you, Jason.

謝謝你，傑森。

Konark Gupta, Scotia Capital.

科納克·古普塔，斯科舍資本。

Good morning, Alain.

早安，阿蘭。

Good morning, Konark.

早上好，科納克。

Alain, I wanted to ask you on Daseke. Thanks for sharing some of the details here, and good to see a pretty good quarter from the truckload business despite all the pressure you're seeing in the market. Obviously, Daseke seems like it's progressing well. Can you help us understand like what was the exit June OR run rate at Daseke? And how do you see the bridge to sub-90% OR there? Like what are some of pit-stops, and what are some of the key drivers besides IT, et cetera, to get to some idea.

阿蘭，我想問你有關達塞克的問題。感謝您在這裡分享一些細節，很高興看到卡車業務季度表現相當不錯，儘管您在市場上看到了巨大的壓力。顯然，Daseke 看起來進展順利。您能否幫助我們了解 Daseke 6 月的退出率或運行率是多少？您如何看待通往低於 90% OR 的橋樑？例如有哪些進站、除了 IT 之外還有哪些關鍵驅動因素等等，以便得到一些想法。

Yeah. So I would say that if you look at Daseke's Q2 number, okay. So most of our guys are running close to 90% OR. So we have one business unit, one business unit right now that loses money. But by the end of August, they will stop losing money because we're going to shut them down, right, and move whatever good business remains into other business units within the TFI world in the US.

是的。所以我想說，如果你看看 Daseke 的 Q2 數字，好吧。所以我們大多數人的 OR 都接近 90%。所以我們有一個業務部門，一個目前正在虧損的業務部門。但到 8 月底，他們將停止虧損，因為我們將關閉他們，對吧，並將剩餘的良好業務轉移到美國 TFI 世界的其他業務部門。

And then I've got another one that is running a very high OR of 98%. So after we've got rid of that one that loses money is going to be the next one. And then I've got another one that's running at 95% OR. So this is why on average, okay, we are closer to a 92%, 91%, 92%, 93% OR globally, okay? But we're going to weed out the losers, and we're going to improve the ones that can be improved. But then again, like I said earlier, we need to talk more between the TFI specialty truckload business unit.

然後我還有另一個運行了高達 98% 的 OR 的程式。因此，在我們擺脫掉那個賠錢的人之後，下一個就會出現。然後我還有另一台以 95% OR 運行。這就是為什麼平均而言，我們在全球範圍內接近 92%、91%、92%、93% 或，好嗎？但我們會淘汰那些失敗者，並改進那些可以改進的。但話又說回來，就像我之前所說的那樣，我們需要在 TFI 特種卡車業務部門之間進行更多對話。

And that's something that I have started already, okay, because there's lots of opportunities. Within Daseke I've got one or two business units that are running today sub-90% OR but even those guys running sub-90% OR there, let's say, they are 87%, but because market conditions are difficult, normally, they should be running an 80%, 82%, 83% OR. But we as an example, insurance, okay? Daseke is something that was not done well.

這就是我已經開始的事情，好吧，因為有很多機會。在Daseke 中，我有一兩個業務部門今天的運作率低於90%，但即使是那些運行率低於90% 的人，比方說，他們也有87%，但由於市場條件很困難，通常情況下，他們應運行 80%、82%、83% OR。但我們舉個例子，保險，好嗎？ Daseke是一件沒有做好的事情。

So we are improving, okay, our insurance costs, the way it's been done. But I'm stuck with one deal that was signed for three years. So I'm going to have to suffer for another two years because of this deal that doesn't make any sense, but I'm going to have to live with. But there's a lot of good stuff within the Daseke Group of companies. So yeah, we bought this company, and we're going to be under 90% OR within the year, like I said, of acquisition, and admin cost is -- was a big thing. I mean the overhead was costing them a fortune. The head office is costing us a fortune in rent and this and that.

所以我們正在改善我們的保險費用，以及它的實施方式。但我堅持簽署了一份為期三年的協議。因此，由於這筆沒有任何意義的交易，我將不得不再忍受兩年的痛苦，但我將不得不忍受。但 Daseke 集團公司內部有很多好東西。所以，是的，我們收購了這家公司，正如我所說，我們的收購率將在一年內低於 90%，而管理成本是一件大事。我的意思是，管理費用花了他們一大筆錢。總部的租金花了我們一大筆錢。

IT, like I said earlier, and these are all things on the admin side that we're going to be reducing probably 200 basis points to 300 basis points globally. And then sharing best practice, okay, also will help us. So I feel really, really good. Because if you look at what we've done, okay, global TFI in the US in Q2, specialty truckload. I mean we're running just a sub 89% OR, right?

IT，就像我之前說的，這些都是管理方面的事情，我們將在全球減少 200 個基點到 300 個基點。然後分享最佳實踐，好吧，也會對我們有幫助。所以我感覺真的非常好。因為如果你看看我們所做的事情，好吧，第二季度美國的全球 TFI，特種卡車裝載量。我的意思是我們的 OR 率低於 89%，對吧？

This is with Daseke. Now you're going to say, well, last year, you were at 85% OR. Absolutely, okay? But even our legacy business of TFI, okay, without Daseke, in Q2, we're not running at 85% OR. We're running probably at 86.5%. I don't have the numbers close to me because the market is way more difficult this year than a year ago. So this is why when you add Daseke okay, with one quarter only, and we're able to combine the two into one and come up with an 88% OR, I say Mr. Brookshaw and your team, you guys have done a fantastic job.

這是達塞克。現在你會說，好吧，去年，你的 OR 是 85%。絕對可以，好嗎？但即使是我們的 TFI 傳統業務，好吧，如果沒有 Daseke，在第二季度，我們的 OR 也不會達到 85%。我們的運行速度大概是 86.5%。我沒有身邊的數據，因為今年的市場比一年前困難得多。所以這就是為什麼當你添加Daseke 時，好吧，只有四分之一，我們能夠將兩者合二為一並得出88％ 的OR，我說布魯克肖先生和你的團隊，你們做得非常出色工作。

That's great, Alain. I think it seems like you guys are on a very, very good path on Daseke for sure. Okay. And just a quick follow-up on the LTL side. I know you laid the ground with some factors about how the rates could evolve and what you're probably planning to do on the cost side? I wanted to ask you about the competitive dynamics here that could unfold over the next year or two.

太好了，阿蘭。我認為你們在 Daseke 上確實走在一條非常非常好的道路上。好的。以及零擔方面的快速跟進。我知道您已經就費率如何演變以及您可能計劃在成本方面採取什麼措施奠定了基礎？我想問您未來一兩年可能出現的競爭動態。

One of the biggest and actually, the biggest LTL player in the market is looking to divest the freight business, FedEx. I wanted to know how do you perceive that as a competitive dynamic change situation, if at all it happens.

市場上最大的、實際上是最大的零擔運輸公司之一正在尋求剝離貨運業務——聯邦快遞。我想知道如果這種情況發生的話，您如何看待這種競爭動態變化的情況。

Well, you know what, Konark. If this happens at FedEx, I mean, we would be the happiest guy in the world. I mean I think that would be great for the market. I think that this is a great company, FedEx Freight. And being stand-alone, I think it would be fantastic. We have a relationship with them. We work with them in two areas of BC, mostly the Vancouver area. We also work with them in Saskatchewan.

好吧，你知道嗎，科納克。我的意思是，如果這種情況發生在聯邦快遞，我們將成為世界上最快樂的人。我的意思是，我認為這對市場來說非常有利。我認為聯邦快遞貨運是一家偉大的公司。如果是獨立的，我認為這會很棒。我們和他們有關係。我們在不列顛哥倫比亞省的兩個地區與他們合作，主要是溫哥華地區。我們也在薩斯喀徹溫省與他們合作。

We're having discussions with them if we could -- if we can help them elsewhere in Canada. So I think that having this spin-off, if ever it happens, I think it's going to be good for the market overall. And I think it's going to be really good for us at TFI.

如果可以的話，我們正在與他們進行討論——如果我們可以幫助他們在加拿大其他地方。因此，我認為，如果發生這種分拆，我認為這將對整個市場有利。我認為這對我們 TFI 來說確實有好處。

Thanks so much. Perfect. Thank so much, Alain. Good luck. Thank you.

非常感謝。完美的。非常感謝，阿蘭。祝你好運。謝謝。

Thank you, Konark.

謝謝你，科納克。

Jordan Alliger, Goldman Sachs.

喬丹·阿利格，高盛。

Hi. Just a follow-up question again on LTL. I know Alain in the past, you talked a lot about service on LTL. And I don't know if I've heard as much about it today, service being like a critical COG in that revenue per hundred weight, at some point inflect positive. So can you maybe talk a little bit about LTL service where you are? Thank you.

你好。只是關於 LTL 的後續問題。我以前認識 Alain，您談了很多關於零擔服務的內容。我不知道我今天是否聽說過這麼多，服務就像每百重量收入的關鍵重心，在某些時候會產生正面的影響。那麼您能談談您所在地區的零擔服務嗎？謝謝。

Yeah, that's a very good question because without service, it's difficult for you to grow the business. It's also difficult for you to guard and protect. So absolutely. This is a balance between cost and service. So what we've been trying to do is improve the service, at the same time, reducing costs. And for sure, when you take the culture of a company that's been really lazy and not being focused like some of my peers are in terms of cost and service. It doesn't change overnight, right?

是的，這是一個非常好的問題，因為沒有服務，您就很難發展業務。你也很難守護和保護。絕對是如此。這是成本和服務之間的平衡。所以我們一直在努力做的是改善服務，同時降低成本。當然，當你看到一家公司的文化時，它真的很懶惰，並且不像我的一些同行那樣專注於成本和服務。它不會在一夜之間改變，對嗎？

So what we've been able to do is to change the culture, that guys, we can improve service and reduce costs at the same time. So where we've been very successful is on the linehaul. Why? Because we were able to move away from rail to a certain degree, okay? So 4% of our miles today are non-rail, they're more on the road with our own people. So that improves the service. So yeah, you're scared because, oh, cost of the road is going to be more than the rail.

所以我們能夠做的就是改變文化，我們可以同時改善服務並降低成本。我們非常成功的地方是長途運輸。為什麼？因為我們能夠在某種程度上擺脫鐵路，好嗎？因此，今天我們 4% 的里程是非鐵路里程，更多的是與我們自己的人一起在公路上行駛。這樣就改善了服務。所以，是的，你很害怕，因為，哦，公路的成本將比鐵路更高。

Well, we were able to do that at kind of a breakeven. So guys and say, guys, we've improved service, and there's not been an effect on cost, okay? So we have not moved cost up. Those 4% miles now makes a lot of sense. They're on the road. On the P&D side, well, there again, what we're trying to do is, okay, reduce the missed pickup, because are you crazy? Well, you can't miss a pickup, because then its you missed the opportunity of the revenue.

好吧，我們能夠以收支平衡的方式做到這一點。所以，夥計們，我們已經改善了服務，並且對成本沒有影響，好嗎？所以我們沒有提高成本。現在這 4% 的里程數很有意義。他們在路上。在 P&D 方面，好吧，我們正在嘗試做的是，好吧，減少錯過的接送，因為你瘋了嗎？好吧，你不能錯過一次皮卡，因為那樣你就錯過了創造收入的機會。

So the culture there was, wow, I got to bring back my guys, okay? Or we're not set up because, if you think about an LTL company, the focus is on delivery, right? Because that's the first thing you do in the morning. The guy leaves and does his delivery. And then if he has time left, then he does the pickup. And me, what we are doing in Canada is we changed this philosophy.

所以那裡的文化是，哇，我必須帶回我的球員，好嗎？或者我們之所以沒有成立，是因為如果你考慮零擔公司，重點是交付，對嗎？因為這是你早上做的第一件事。那傢伙離開並送貨。然後，如果他還有時間，他就會去接車。而我，我們在加拿大所做的就是改變這個理念。

The Canadian philosophy is that, yes, we have to deliver the freight in the morning. But your role number one is to pick up freight. Why? Because if you don't pick up freight, then you don't have the revenue. So we're changing that culture also on our US LTL. I said guys, priority number one is to pick up everything that we can, but we have to make sure that we also deliver the freight. So there's a balance there between service and costs, right?

加拿大的理念是，是的，我們必須在早上交付貨物。但你的首要任務是提貨。為什麼？因為如果你不提貨，那麼你就沒有收入。因此，我們也在美國零擔運輸上改變這種文化。我說，夥計們，第一要務是盡我們所能收集所有東西，但我們必須確保我們也能運送貨物。那麼服務和成本之間存在平衡，對嗎？

But again, we have better tools today to manage all this. And with financial information, we have better managers, dispatcher has to be involved, and it's a team effort, right? So we are improving service definitely. And at the same time, we are reducing costs, but not enough. And like I said, A lot of our reduced cost has to come from admin, okay?

但同樣，我們今天擁有更好的工具來管理這一切。對於財務訊息，我們有更好的經理，調度員必須參與其中，這是團隊的努力，對嗎？所以我們一定會改善服務。同時，我們正在降低成本，但還不夠。就像我說的，我們降低的成本很大一部分來自於管理，好嗎？

Our admin cost is too high, but that's got nothing to do with the operation, right? So our labor cost per shipment is better, okay? And we continue to improve that. But that's also a team effort. So we need our salespeople to understand that we need more freight per stop. We need to travel less miles to pick up freight because we don't want to go 90 miles away from our terminals to do one pickup, et cetera, et cetera.

我們的管理成本太高了，但這和營運無關吧？所以我們每次出貨的人力成本比較好，好嗎？我們將繼續改進這一點。但這也是團隊的努力。因此，我們需要銷售人員了解我們每個站點需要更多的運費。我們需要減少行駛里程來提貨，因為我們不想去距離碼頭 90 英里的地方去取貨，等等。

So it's a global effort. But Jordan, I mean, service is priority number one, okay, because you can't grow the business without the service.

所以這是一項全球性的努力。但是喬丹，我的意思是，服務是第一位的，好吧，因為沒有服務你就無法發展業務。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

You're welcome.

不客氣。

Daniel Imbro, Stephens.

丹尼爾·因布羅，史蒂芬斯。

Yeah. Hi, thanks. Good morning. Thanks for taking my question. Alain, I want to point to a follow-up on US LTL. You talked about being lean, and obviously, that's showing up in EBIT per shipment kind of up sequentially despite the revenue per shipment being down. I just want to understand the back half outlook. So was your expectation that this mix headwind continues on the US LTL for revenue per shipment, but that you can just offset it by finding more efficiencies and being leaner in the back half. So revenue -- sort of EBIT per shipment could keep growing?

是的。你好，謝謝。早安.感謝您提出我的問題。阿蘭，我想指出美國零擔運輸的後續行動。您談到了精益化，顯然，儘管每次發貨的收入有所下降，但每次發貨的息稅前利潤卻連續上升。我只是想了解後半部分的前景。您的預期也是如此，即美國零擔運輸的每次發貨收入將繼續面臨這種混合逆風，但您可以透過提高後半段的效率和精簡來抵消它。那麼收入－每批貨物的息稅前利潤（EBIT）會繼續成長嗎？

Yeah, absolutely. Because you know what, we don't control the market. And I think that the market has been soft in '24, and I don't see it getting stronger. So the only way -- the only way that we can be successful is we have to do the job ourselves on the cost side, right? So I'm saying the same thing again and again, I mean the admin cost of TForce Freight is like 500 basis points too much compared to what we do in Canada.

是的，絕對是。因為你知道，我們無法控制市場。我認為 24 年市場一直疲軟，而且我認為它不會變得更強。因此，我們能夠成功的唯一方法是我們必須在成本方面自己完成這項工作，對嗎？所以我一次又一次地說同樣的事情，我的意思是 TForce Freight 的管理成本比我們在加拿大的管理成本高出 500 個基點。

So this got to be a focus of ours. Our IT costs is about 2 times, 3 times more than what we have as an IT across in Canada so that's the focus now. Don't forget, IT, we could not really work on IT, because until year until, let's say, summer of last year, we were stuck with a lot of spend on IT because we had to walk away from UPS on the TSA, but that's behind us now. So we have to keep reducing this cost.

所以這必須成為我們的重點。我們的 IT 成本大約是加拿大 IT 成本的 2 倍、3 倍，所以這就是現在的重點。別忘了，IT，我們無法真正從事 IT 工作，因為直到去年，比如說，去年夏天，我們在 IT 上花費了大量資金，因為我們不得不在 TSA 上放棄 UPS，但現在這些都已經過去了。所以我們必須不斷降低這個成本。

So the market is going to help us in Q3 and Q4 hopefully, but I'm not sure about that. What I can be sure of is that Bob and Keith, okay, and their team, they have to be focused on doing more with less.

因此，市場預計在第三季和第四季幫助我們，但我對此不確定。我可以確定的是，鮑勃和基思，好吧，還有他們的團隊，他們必須專注於用更少的錢做更多的事情。

That makes a lot of sense. And maybe to follow up more directly is on LTL pricing. If we strip out this mix noise, I guess, first, should that mix headwind continue to worsen in the back half? It sounds like yes. When do you think that will turn the corner when you look at the business? And if you exclude mix, I guess, how are contracts like-for-like repricing today? Or are they still pricing at a similar level of increased excess mix shift as they have been the last few quarters?

這很有意義。也許更直接的跟進是零擔定價。如果我們剔除這種混合噪音，我想，首先，混合逆風是否會在後半段繼續惡化？聽起來是的。當您審視業務時，您認為什麼時候會出現轉機？我想，如果排除混合因素，今天的合約重新定價情況如何？或者他們的定價仍然與過去幾季類似，增加了過度的組合轉變？

Yeah. I think the pricing is not so bad right now. It's okay. I mean it's not very strong. But then again, I mean, I don't foresee Q3 and 4 in terms of the market condition to improve? Are they going to get better? I don't think so. Are they going to get worse? I don't think so. I think it's going to be more steady heady. Us, the only way we're going to break this 90% OR, once and for all, we have to grow our GFP, which is an asset that nobody has and also we have to reduce our costs. That's the only way we're going to break this 90% OR.

是的。我認為現在的定價還不錯。沒關係。我的意思是它不是很強。但話又說回來，我的意思是，我不認為第三季和第四季的市場狀況會有所改善？他們會變得更好嗎？我不這麼認為。他們會變得更糟嗎？我不這麼認為。我認為它會更加穩定、令人興奮。我們，要打破這個 90% 的唯一方法，或一勞永逸地，我們必須增加我們的 GFP，這是一項無人擁有的資產，我們必須降低成本。這是我們打破 90% OR 的唯一方法。

Helpful color. Best of luck.

有用的顏色。祝你好運。

Thank you, Daniel.

謝謝你，丹尼爾。

Benoit Poirier, Desjardins Capital Markets.

Benoit Poirier，加鼎資本市場。

Hey. Good morning, Alain. And congrats for the strong execution overall.

嘿。早安，阿蘭。並祝賀整體的強勁執行力。

Thank you, Benoit.

謝謝你，伯努瓦。

Yeah. Just looking at your comments with respect to M&A skewed towards logistics and also LTL in 2025. Could you maybe remind us about your comfort level in terms of leverage? And what are kind of the M&A and look that you would be looking in 2025?

是的。看看您對 2025 年物流和零擔併購的評論。 2025 年您希望進行哪些類型的併購？

Good question, Benoit. So if we don't do anything upsize, okay, let's say, until Q3 of '25, our leverage is going to be under 1, okay? So we're going to end up the year probably at 1.75. And after three quarters of '25, our forecast is that we're probably going to be at between 0.5 and 0.75. So this is why it's never going to happen. This is why something of size will happen.

好問題，伯努瓦。因此，如果我們不做任何擴大規模的事情，好吧，假設到 25 年第三季度，我們的槓桿率將低於 1，好嗎？因此，今年結束時的利率可能為 1.75。 25 年的三個季度之後，我們的預測是我們可能會在 0.5 到 0.75 之間。所以這就是為什麼它永遠不會發生。這就是為什麼會發生大事的原因。

Now we bought Daseke for $1.1 billion last year -- well, not last year, this year. Okay. We made the deal last year, but it's this year. So I think that for TFI, easily, we could do a deal between $2 billion and $3 billion of costs for TFI. And I think that you've noted about a year ago and your note is that -- I mean, you can't stop TFI. Why is that on M&A because they generate so much cash, right?

現在我們去年以 11 億美元的價格收購了 Daseke——好吧，不是去年，而是今年。好的。我們去年就達成了這項協議，但今年是這樣。因此，我認為對於 TFI 來說，我們可以輕鬆地為 TFI 達成 20 億至 30 億美元成本的交易。我認為您大約一年前就已經注意到了，您的說明是——我的意思是，您無法阻止 TFI。為什麼是在併購上，因為它們產生瞭如此多的現金，對嗎？

And you are right. That is the proof. The proof is in the pudding right now, right? So we bought this company for $1.1 billion, and in Q2, we reduced our debt by $100 million, and we will reduce our debt for the year by about $500 million to $600 million and bring the leverage down to 1.75. I think TFI is probably one of the best story that's not known is how big TFI is on the free cash flow.

你是對的。這就是證據。證據就在布丁裡，對吧？所以我們以11億美元的價格買下了這家公司，在第二季度，我們減少了1億美元的債務，我們將把今年的債務減少約5億至6億美元，並將槓桿率降至1.75。我認為 TFI 可能是最好的故事之一，但不知道的是 TFI 的自由現金流有多大。

And what's the opportunity that creates with a free cash flow machine like TFI, right? So this is why. I think that if you look at the end of '25, because what we're talking about is probably more like in the summer, '25 to the fall of '25, if we are successful because M&A, you can try, but we've been very good at that. But until you get the deal done, you're never sure that the deal is going to get done, right?

像 TFI 這樣的自由現金流機器會創造什麼機會，對吧？所以這就是原因。我認為，如果你看看25年末，因為我們談論的可能更像是在夏天，25年到25年秋天，如果我們因為併購而成功，你可以嘗試，但我們我在這方面做得非常好。但在完成交易之前，你永遠無法確定交易是否會完成，對吧？

So we feel good that we're going to be very well positioned late '25 to do a deal of size, that could be up to $3 billion and if ever there's also part of that in paper, well, then it could be maybe up to $4 billion or $5 billion. We'll see.

因此，我們感覺很好，因為我們將在 25 年末處於有利位置來完成一筆規模高達 30 億美元的交易，如果其中也有一部分是紙面的，那麼它可能會增加到40 億美元或50 億美元。我們拭目以待。

Okay. That's great color. And just in terms of follow-up question, you made great comments about the overall market environments. And also some comments about OR expectation for US LTL. When looking at 2025, I know it's still early, but how much should be -- do you need the economy to be supportive in order to achieve USD9 of EPS next year? I'm just curious about any key levers or moving parts, including the $0.50 of EPS accretion from Daseke.

好的。那顏色真棒。就後續問題而言，您對整個市場環境做出了很好的評價。還有一些關於美國零擔的 OR 預期的評論。展望 2025 年，我知道現在還為時過早，但應該是多少——你是否需要經濟的支持才能實現明年 9 美元的每股盈餘？我只是對任何關鍵槓桿或活動部件感到好奇，包括 Daseke 帶來的 0.50 美元 EPS 增值。

Yeah. Well, there's one thing that's easy to say, Benoit, is that when our leverage goes down, my interest cost also goes down. So if you look at Q2, my interest cost went through the roof, right, okay? So one easy thing that's going to happen without doing anything, right, by reimbursing the debt, okay? So if we reimburse $500 million, $600 million, okay, that will not exist next year. That's already after tax, $20 million, $25 million, and we'll continue to reducing that.

是的。嗯，伯努瓦，有一件很容易說的事情，那就是當我們的槓桿率下降時，我的利息成本也會下降。所以，如果你看看第二季度，我的利息成本就飆升了，對吧？因此，無需做任何事情，就會發生一件簡單的事情，對吧，透過償還債務，好嗎？所以如果我們償還 5 億美元、6 億美元，好吧，明年就不存在了。這已經是稅後的 2000 萬美元、2500 萬美元了，我們將繼續減少這個數字。

So overall, in '25, if we don't do anything of size, we're probably going to generate $40 million after tax, okay, just on reduced interest, right? So that's very easy to do because the only thing we have to do is pay down the debt, right, with our free cash flow. So that's going to help us. I think that our specialty truckload by moving, our friend Daseke from, let's say, a 95% OR, okay, 93% to 95%. They were back down to under 90%.

所以總的來說，在 25 年，如果我們不做任何規模的事情，我們可能會在稅後產生 4000 萬美元，好吧，只是減少利息，對嗎？所以這很容易做到，因為我們唯一要做的就是用我們的自由現金流償還債務，對吧。這對我們有幫助。我認為我們的朋友 Daseke 的專業卡車運輸量從 95% 到 95%，好吧，從 93% 到 95%。他們回落到 90% 以下。

Well, we said $0.50 for '25 for the contribution for Daseke, I think we'll do better than that, okay, from what I'm seeing. Now if the market is helping us, well, maybe it could be better than $0.50 or maybe it's going to be like $0.75 or to $1. But don't forget that if you look at my other specialty truckload, I mean, normally, in a good year, we used to run specialty truckload at TFI around 80% OR, okay?

好吧，我們說 25 年 Daseke 的捐款為 0.50 美元，我認為我們會做得更好，好吧，從我所看到的。現在，如果市場對我們有幫助，那麼，也許價格可能會高於 0.50 美元，或者可能會達到 0.75 美元或 1 美元。但不要忘記，如果你看看我的其他特種卡車裝載量，我的意思是，通常情況下，在好的年份，我們過去常常在 TFI 運行特種卡車裝載量的 80% 左右，或者，好嗎？

Now we're in 88% OR. So if we go back to more of a normal market, the %88 OR will come down to %83 OR. And if the market is really good, we'll probably go down to 80, maybe sub-80% OR. Now that we have Daseke in the family because we have less competition now, right?

現在我們的成功率為 88%。因此，如果我們回到更正常的市場，%88 OR 將降至 %83 OR。如果市場真的很好，我們可能會降低到 80%，甚至低於 80%。現在我們家有了 Daseke，因為我們現在競爭少了，對嗎？

And then you look at our TForce Freight, the market stays the same. Market does not really improve too much. But us, we're so fat on the cost side, the admin cost side, the IT costs, I mean, and all of that. To me, we have to reduce all the admin costs between now and a year from now, at least by 200 basis point, right? So this is all going to flow to the bottom line. And this is the way that we're going to get not $7 EPS, like we will probably hit in this year, '24. I mean we have to do better than that even if the market is not too supportive in '25.

然後你看看我們的 TForce Freight，市場保持不變。市場並沒有真正改善太多。但我們，我的意思是，我們在成本方面、管理成本方面、IT 成本方面都太高了。對我來說，我們必須從現在到一年後減少所有管理成本，至少減少 200 個基點，對吧？所以這一切都會流向底線。透過這種方式，我們將獲得 7 美元的每股收益，就像我們今年 24 年可能達到的那樣。我的意思是，即使 25 年市場不太支持，我們也必須做得更好。

That's a very good color, Alain. Mèsi, Thank you.

這是一個非常好的顏色，阿蘭。梅西，謝謝你。

Pleasure, Benoit.

很高興，伯努瓦。

Cameron Doerksen, National Bank Financial.

卡梅倫‧多爾克森 (Cameron Doerksen)，國家銀行金融部門。

Yeah. Hi, thanks. Good morning.

是的。你好，謝謝。早安.

Good morning, Cameron.

早上好，卡梅倫。

I want to come back just to the logistics segment. Obviously, segment that's doing quite well. I just wondered if you could talk a little bit about the trends in kind of the individual businesses within logistics. I mean it's a bit of a grab bag of different businesses in there. And obviously, some of the 3PL businesses are doing, it's a tough market. But just any color you can provide on how some of the other businesses doing in there? And then what's the key driver here of the LTL improvements?

我想回到物流領域。顯然，該細分市場表現相當不錯。我只是想知道您是否可以談談物流領域各個業務的趨勢。我的意思是，這裡有點像是不同企業的雜貨包。顯然，一些 3PL 企業正在做的事情是，這是一個艱難的市場。但您能否提供有關其他一些企業在該地區的經營情況的任何顏色？那麼零擔改進的關鍵驅動因素是什麼？

Yes. So within our logistic, Cameron, okay, sector number one is our last mile operation, okay? So last mile operation is US and Canada. It's a combination of both countries. And those guys are really, really doing well, right? So those guys are sub-85% OR, right? Because we're not stupid. We're not in business to practice delivery, right? So we service customers, we reduce our costs, we're very lean and mean. So that's number one.

是的。所以在我們的物流中，卡梅倫，好吧，第一區是我們的最後一英里運營，好嗎？所以最後一英里的運營是美國和加拿大。這是兩國的結合。這些人真的做得非常非常好，對吧？那麼這些人的 OR 值低於 85%，對吧？因為我們並不傻。我們做生意不是為了練習送貨，對吧？所以我們服務客戶，降低成本，我們非常精簡刻薄。所以這是第一。

Then number two is we have our brokerage operation, okay, which the biggest player in there is our TForce worldwide operation. Now these guys have suffered a big time, okay? So their revenue is down. These guys used to be a $600 million, $700 million company. Now we're down to about $550 million. And also the margin have suffered as well. So that sector is not doing as well as the rest. And the rest of our brokerage operations are also suffering, okay, on the revenue side but not so much on the profitability side. So revenue is down, profitability is about stable with the rest of our kind of brokerage operation.

第二是我們有我們的經紀業務，好吧，其中最大的參與者是我們的 TForce 全球業務。現在這些傢伙已經受了很大的苦了好嗎？所以他們的收入下降了。這些傢伙曾經是一家價值 6 億美元、7 億美元的公司。現在我們的資金減少到大約 5.5 億美元。利潤率也受到了影響。因此，該行業的表現不如其他行業。我們的其他經紀業務在收入方面也受到了影響，但在盈利方面卻沒有那麼嚴重。因此，收入下降了，而我們其他經紀業務的獲利能力基本上已經穩定。

And the third is what we call our specialty services where we move all kinds of stuff, right? So JHT being the largest player in that sector, okay? But we have other sector. And this is running a great operation for us, right? So it's really a combination of those three sectors. So our last mile is doing really, really well. Our equipment moving sector as well, doing well.

第三種是我們所謂的專業服務，我們可以搬運各種東西，對吧？所以 JHT 是該領域最大的參與者，好嗎？但我們還有其他部門。這對我們來說是個很棒的行動，對嗎？所以它實際上是這三個部門的結合。所以我們的最後一英里做得非常非常好。我們的設備搬運部門也是如此，表現良好。

The only small weakness we have is in our brokerage operation. But when you do the sum of all this, I mean, we keep improving, okay, in terms of profitability. So like I said earlier, for the first time, we broke the 90% OR, right? So we're just a little under 89%. We believe that '25 is going to be even better than '24, okay? Globally for us. And even '26 is going to be better than '25.

我們唯一的小弱點是我們的經紀業務。但當你把所有這些加起來時，我的意思是，我們在盈利能力方面不斷進步。就像我之前說的，我們第一次打破了 90% OR，對嗎？所以我們的成功率略低於 89%。我們相信「25」會比「24」更好，好嗎？對我們來說是全球性的。甚至 26 年也會比 25 年更好。

When we look at our forecast, about our last-mile operation, our equipment moving operations, et cetera, et cetera. And the potential of adding into that sector because we're looking at some small transaction that would beef up this sector. Hopefully, this year, maybe into next year, we feel good. I mean if you look at our return on invested capital, it's above 20%, like our P&C is above 20%. So this is really a sector that we love but if it's 2% bottom line, we're not a big fan of that. But if we could get an OE of around 10 points sure, we'll look at that.

當我們查看我們的預測時，關於我們最後一英里的運營、我們的設備移動運營等等。以及加入該行業的潛力，因為我們正在考慮一些小型交易，以增強該行業的實力。希望今年，也許到明年，我們感覺良好。我的意思是，如果你看一下我們的投資資本回報率，你會發現它高於 20%，就像我們的 P&C 高於 20% 一樣。所以這確實是我們喜歡的一個行業，但如果它的底線是 2%，我們就不太喜歡它。但如果我們能確保 OE 達到 10 分左右，我們就會考慮這一點。

Okay. No, that's really helpful to get that detail. And maybe just a second question for me, just more of a curiosity. I'm just wondering about the decision to move P&C into the LTL segment. I mean I would have thought it might make more sense to moving into logistics, just given that you already have a package delivery business within logistics. So just wondering about the rationale there.

好的。不，這對於獲取詳細資訊確實很有幫助。也許對我來說只是第二個問題，更多的是好奇心。我只是想知道將 P&C 轉移到零擔運輸領域的決定。我的意思是，考慮到您已經在物流領域擁有包裹遞送業務，我認為進入物流領域可能更有意義。所以只是想知道那裡的基本原理。

Yeah. you know what, Cameron, yes, I never thought about that. But at the end of the day, really P&C is a network operation whereas our last-mile operation is not a network. So last mile is in logistics, but it's not a network, right? So we don't run network in our last mile. Whereas in our P&C, we run a last mile. What am I missing? We run a network, right? So that's why it makes sense to be part of LTL because LTL is also a network.

是的。你知道嗎，卡梅倫，是的，我從來沒有想過這一點。但歸根結底，財產保險實際上是一個網路運營，而我們的最後一哩運營並不是一個網路。所以最後一英里是物流，但它不是網絡，對吧？所以我們不會在最後一英里運行網路。而在我們的 P&C 中，我們跑最後一哩路。我缺什麼？我們運行一個網絡，對嗎？這就是為什麼成為 LTL 的一部分是有意義的，因為 LTL 也是一個網路。

Okay. That make sense. Appreciate the questions. Thanks very much.

好的。這是有道理的。感謝您提出的問題。非常感謝。

Okay, Cameron. Pleasure.

好的，卡梅倫。樂趣。

Bascome Majors, Susquehanna.

巴斯科姆專業，薩斯奎哈納。

Alain, as you look forward, you've mentioned the potential spin-off that you publicly disclosed about eight months ago a couple of times on the call. How do you feel today eight months further into both, I guess, a few months in integrating Daseke, eight months further into the cycle about both the fundamental industrial logic and the, call it, valuation arbitrage logic of that decision as you look forward?

阿蘭，正如您展望未來的那樣，您在電話會議上多次提到了大約八個月前您公開披露的潛在分拆。我想，在整合 Daseke 的幾個月後，在基本工業邏輯和您所期望的估值套利邏輯的周期中又過去了八個月，您今天感覺如何？

And between that and integrating Daseke, do you think those are some of your final big moves for the business before you start to move further into retirement? Or is these kind of $2 billion, $3 billion, $4 billion, $5 billion deals that may come up in the next couple of years, you think those come under your umbrella as well? Thank you.

在這與整合 Daseke 之間，您認為這些是您開始進一步退休之前對業務的最後重大舉措嗎？或者是未來幾年可能出現的 20 億美元、30 億美元、40 億美元、50 億美元的交易，您認為這些也屬於您的範疇嗎？謝謝。

Yeah. You know what, that's a very good question, and that's the kind of discussion I had with the Board yesterday, and I told the guys listen, I don't know. I have to do this deal, okay, the spin-off down the road. So this is why I said, guys, I'm in, at least for another five years. So sorry to say for the guys that want to take over CEO's position at TFI. I think is there -- at least another for another five years because this is going to have to happen under my watch, right? And it's not going to happen now. Why? Because like you just said, we have to digest Daseke. And I think that Steve and his team are doing a fantastic job, and it will take us at least a year but so '25 will go by, right?

是的。你知道嗎，這是一個非常好的問題，這就是我昨天與董事會的討論，我告訴大家聽著，我不知道。我必須做這筆交易，好吧，接下來的分拆。所以這就是為什麼我說，夥計們，我至少還會再乾五年。對於那些想要接任 TFI 執行長職位的人來說，我很抱歉。我認為至少還有五年，因為這必須在我的監督下發生，對吧？現在這不會發生了。為什麼？因為就像你剛才說的，我們必須消化Daseke。我認為史蒂夫和他的團隊做得非常出色，我們至少需要一年的時間，但 25 年就會過去，對嗎？

And then in '25, if we're successful trying to add revenue, okay, in the sector that we love in North America, then we will be well positioned to do something maybe late '26 into '27 and that is the timeline. But don't forget that at the same time, Bob and his team at TForce Freight, okay, have a big job to do, okay, into generating a little bit more revenue, but even more importantly, way more OE than what we're doing now. Pleasure.

然後在 25 年，如果我們成功地嘗試增加收入，好吧，在我們喜歡的北美行業，那麼我們將處於有利地位，可能會在 26 年末到 27 年做一些事情，這就是時間表。但不要忘記，與此同時，Bob 和他在 TForce Freight 的團隊還有很多工作要做，好吧，要創造更多的收入，但更重要的是，比我們更多的 OE現在正在做。樂趣。

Thank you for that.

謝謝你。

Pleasure.

樂趣。

Kevin Chiang, CIBC.

凱文·蔣，CIBC。

Good morning. Alain --

早安.阿蘭——

Morning, Kevin.

早安，凱文。

Hey, thanks for squeezing me here. Maybe just one clarification question. I don't know if you mentioned this earlier, you talked about a sub-90% OR in US LTL without improving -- without the need for an improving macro, I know you were initially targeting 88% this year, that's a little bit more difficult. Should we be thinking of that being kind of shifted into 2025? Was that kind of the messaging there?

嘿，謝謝你把我擠到這裡。也許只是澄清問題。我不知道你之前是否提到過這一點，你談到了美國 LTL 低於 90% 或沒有改進——不需要改進宏觀，我知道你今年最初的目標是 88%，這有點多更困難。我們是否應該考慮將其推遲到 2025 年？那裡有這樣的資訊嗎？

Yeah. Absolutely, Kevin. I mean part of this commitment from our team, okay, to get an 88% OR in '24 was based on cost and also based on improving the shipments count. The shipments count is not happening, right? So we are flat. Shipments were flat. We've improved the quality of the shipment, yes. Okay. No doubt about that. And we have also improved the cost to a certain degree, but not enough, right?

是的。當然，凱文。我的意思是我們團隊承諾的一部分，好吧，在 24 年獲得 88% 的 OR 是基於成本和提高發貨數量。發貨計數沒有發生，對嗎？所以我們是平的。出貨量持平。是的，我們提高了發貨的品質。好的。毫無疑問。而且我們在某種程度上也改善了成本，但還不夠，對吧？

So what we're saying is that, guys, okay. So let's change the thinking that -- let's say, the volume will stay about steady or maybe improve a little bit, but that's not going to help us. So we got to double the effort and to be faster and being more efficient and reducing costs. And we've got to be mentally ready to be on a diet, okay, at TForce Freight diet in terms of costs, right? So we got to do a better job of doing more with less I mean, we've been doing that in Canada for a long time.

所以我們要說的是，夥計們，好吧。因此，讓我們改變一下想法——比方說，成交量將保持穩定或可能略有改善，但這對我們沒有幫助。因此，我們必須加倍努力，提高速度、提高效率並降低成本。我們必須在心理上做好節食的準備，好吧，在 TForce Freight 的成本飲食中，對吧？所以我們必須做得更好，用更少的錢做更多的事情，我的意思是，我們在加拿大已經這樣做了很長時間。

If you look at -- if we can run Canada with a sub 80% OR like we're doing now, as a matter of fact, we're what, 75% OR, I think in Canada, even with the Kindersley acquisition, that Kindersley, those guys they were not making a lot of money. But Kindersley in Q2 now is running at 95% OR, which is, wow, from not making money to being a 95% OR after two quarters, I mean Kelly and his team in here have done a fantastic job. So I'm just saying that the Canadian LTL team are doing really, really well, and we still have lots of work to do to improve, okay?

如果你看看——如果我們能以低於 80% 的比例來管理加拿大，或者就像我們現在所做的那樣，事實上，我們就是 75% 的比例，我認為在加拿大，即使收購了 Kindersley，那個金德斯利，那些傢伙他們並沒有賺很多錢。但現在第二季的 Kindersley 的 OR 率為 95%，也就是說，哇，兩個季度後從不賺錢到 OR 為 95%，我的意思是 Kelly 和他的團隊在這裡做得非常出色。所以我只是想說，加拿大 LTL 團隊做得非常非常好，我們還有很多工作要做，需要改進，好嗎？

But in the US, I mean, don't forget, more and more, Bob, okay, is involved with Keith and trying to bring this TFI culture of doing more with less. Now we have also Tim involved to the fleet management. I'm feeling really good about this young guy that's going to help us reduce our maintenance costs even more. Because don't forget, we're making a lot of investment in CapEx for TForce Freight.

但在美國，我的意思是，不要忘記，鮑勃越來越多地參與基思的工作，並試圖將這種 TFI 文化用更少的錢做更多的事情。現在我們也讓提姆參與車隊管理。我對這個年輕人感覺非常好，他將幫助我們進一步降低維護成本。因為不要忘記，我們正在為 TForce Freight 的資本支出進行大量投資。

But so far, the return has not been where it should be. So we brought okay, another team member in there that's got the TFI culture. He's a TFI guy. And I feel really good that, that's going to help us be more efficient. The same thing on fuel, right? So with the fact that now Daseke is part of the family. Well, we should have a better deal on fuel. And down the road, this should benefit TForce Freight as well, right?

但到目前為止，回報還沒有達到應有的水準。所以我們帶來了另一位具有 TFI 文化的團隊成員。他是 TFI 的人。我感覺非常好，這將幫助我們提高效率。燃油方面也是如此，對吧？事實上，現在 Daseke 已成為這個家庭的一部分。好吧，我們應該在燃料方面有更好的協議。未來，這也應該有利於 TForce Freight，對嗎？

So it's a global effort with everything that's going on, okay, this soft market. And if you believe that this soft market will disappear in six months, I hope you're right. But us, we're getting ready that it may not happen, right? So guys, don't hope for the market, start now, every day, be more efficient, do more with less.

所以這是一個全球性的努力，所有正在發生的事情，好吧，這個疲軟的市場。如果您相信這個疲軟的市場將在六個月內消失，我希望您是對的。但我們，我們已經做好了準備，以防它發生，對嗎？所以夥計們，不要寄望於市場，從現在開始，每天，提高效率，用更少的錢做更多的事。

That makes sense. And just maybe in your P&C division, just wondering if you're seeing any benefits or disruption from Chinese e-commerce. I mean there's been a lot of headlines around that in the past, I guess, past a little bit here. Is that something you're seeing within your P&C network up here in Canada?

這是有道理的。也許在您的財產與意外傷害部門，您想知道中國電子商務是否帶來了任何好處或破壞。我的意思是，過去有很多關於這方面的頭條新聞，我想，這裡已經過去了一點。您在加拿大的 P&C 網路中看到過這種情況嗎？

Not yet. The biggest issue we have in Canada has always been the same e-commerce guy that's moving more and more of his shipment in-house and the guys that are serving him or used to serve him, okay, are losing the volume and now they become very aggressive, right? So this is why we had a really soft patch in Q1 when we look at our P&C results in Q1, it was a disaster.

還沒有。我們在加拿大遇到的最大問題一直是同一個電子商務人員在內部轉移越來越多的貨物，而那些為他服務或曾經為他服務的人，好吧，正在失去數量，現在他們變成了很有攻擊性，對吧？因此，這就是為什麼當我們查看第一季的 P&C 結果時，我們在第一季出現了非常疲軟的情況，這是一場災難。

But don't forget, Q1 '24 reflects the decision that was made in the summer of '23. And we made some mistakes there. So Chris took over that. And we're doing a much better job, and we will keep improving Q3 and Q4, but it's a tough market. So if you look at the revenue per shipment in our P&C, we're down a bit, okay? There's more pressure over there because the biggest e-commerce in Canada is moving freight in-house, and we got some of our peers that are stuck with their pants down.

但不要忘記，24 年第一季反映了 23 年夏天做出的決定。我們在那裡犯了一些錯誤。所以克里斯接手了這份工作。我們做得更好了，我們將不斷改進第三季和第四季度，但這是一個艱難的市場。因此，如果你看看我們的 P&C 中每次發貨的收入，我們會下降一點，好嗎？那裡的壓力更大，因為加拿大最大的電子商務正在內部運輸貨運，而我們的一些同行卻陷入了困境。

Right. That make sense. I'll leave it there, have a great weekend Alain. I appreciate taking my questions.

正確的。這是有道理的。我會把它留在那裡，祝阿蘭週末愉快。我很高興回答我的問題。

Thank you. You're welcome.

謝謝。不客氣。

Thank you. And at this time, Mr. Bedard, we have no other questions. Please proceed.

謝謝。貝達德先生，目前我們沒有其他問題了。請繼續。

All right. Thank you very much, operator, and thanks, everyone, for joining us today, keep you updated as we move through the year, and we look forward to our next call. And in the meantime, please don't hesitate to reach out with any additional questions. So enjoy the weekend, and we'll be in touch. Thank you.

好的。非常感謝您，接線員，也感謝大家今天加入我們，請在這一年中向您通報最新情況，我們期待下次通話。同時，如有任何其他問題，請隨時與我們聯繫。所以祝你周末愉快，我們會聯絡你的。謝謝。

Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, this does indeed conclude your conference call for today. Once again, thank you for attending. At this time, we do ask that you please disconnect your lines.

謝謝您，先生。女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。再次感謝您的出席。此時，我們確實要求您斷開線路。