Tsakos Energy Navigation Ltd (TEN) 2016 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Thank you for standing by, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Tsakos Energy Navigation conference call on the third quarter 2016 financial results. We have with us Mr. Takis Arapoglou, Chairman of the Board, and Nikolas Tsakos, President and CEO, Mr. Paul Durham, Chief Financial Officer, and Mr. George Saroglou, Chief Operating Officer of the Company.

At this time, all participant lines are in a listen-only mode. There will be a presentation, followed by a question-and-answer session. (Operator Instructions).

I must advise the conference is being recorded today. And I will now pass the floor to Mr. Nicolas Bornozis, President of Capital Link, Investor Relation Adviser of Tsakos Energy Navigation. Please go ahead, sir.

Thank you very much, and good morning to all of our participants. This is Nicolas Bornozis of Capital Link, Investor Relations Adviser to Tsakos Energy Navigation. This morning, the Company publicly released its financial results for the third quarter of 2016.

In case you do not have a copy of today's earnings release, please call us at 212 661 7566 or email us at ten@capitallink.com, and we will email a copy to you right away. Please note that parallel to today's conference call, there is also a live audio and slide webcast which can be accessed on the Company's website on the front page at www.tenn.gr.

The conference call will follow the presentation slides, so please, we urge you to access the presentation of the webcast. Please note that the slides of the webcast will be available as an archive on the Company's website after the conference call. Also, please note that the slides for the webcast presentation are user controlled, and that means that by clicking on the proper button, you can move to the next or to the previous slide on your own.

At this time, I would like to read the Safe Harbor statement. This conference call and slide presentation of the webcast contain certain forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Safe Harbor provision of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Investors are cautioned that such forward-looking statements involve risks and uncertainties, which may affect TEN's business prospects and results of operations.

Such risks are more fully disclosed in TEN's filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

Ladies and gentlemen, at this point, I would like to turn the call over to Mr. Takis Arapoglou, the Chairman of the Board of Tsakos Energy Navigation. Mr. Arapoglou, please go ahead, sir.

Thank you, Nicolas. Good morning and good afternoon to everyone. Thanks for joining our call today for the presentation of our third-quarter 2016 results.

Despite the challenging period in the market that spanned from the end of the second quarter to the best part of the third quarter, TEN has delivered again a positive quarter results. The usual summer seasonal patterns, the new additions to the global fleet and the shortcomings in the oil supply depressed spot market revenues for the quarter.

In addition, the deployment and dry docking of our past major earner, the LNG carrier Neo Energy, and a series of four scheduled dry dockings impacted directly the bottom line. Yet despite all this, TEN managed to deliver a profitable quarter, a result of incremental revenue from the deployment of the new 2016 deliveries, a further increase in the percentage of the fleet under time charter and a substantial further reduction in fleet operating expenses.

The recovery of the market in the current quarter finds TEN firing again on all cylinders and very well positioned to benefit from the additional seven new deliveries in 2017, six of which are already under long-term accretive contracts. We expect 2017 on average to be broadly similar to 2016 in terms of efficiency and stability of performance. Positioning TEN perfectly for the stronger market that we anticipate thereafter, principally due to lack of growth in the order book for new vessels.

So for yet another quarter, congratulations are in order for Nikolas Tsakos, the management team and everyone at TEN for a great performance in steering successfully the Company through quite a challenging patch and into a period of sustained growth and profitability to the benefit of you, our shareholders. Thank you from me, and now over to Nikolas Tsakos.

Thank you, Chairman, and good morning to all of you. I think as the Chairman said, the third quarter was a challenging quarter, mainly because of disruption in the movement of crude, together with the seasonal low. We faced a weak market, however, TEN, with our business model being more long term, was able again to continue our profitability and maintain our uninterrupted dividend distributions, which have been going on since the inception of the Company.

What makes us optimistic going forward is the quick reaction of the market. Where the market rebounded almost to 2015 levels as soon as the disruptions of -- the supply disruptions of crude came back in the market. So this shows that the market is well balanced, and every barrel and every tonne counts. And we're looking forward of enjoying a significantly stronger fourth quarter. Which, looking at the futures of the market, it seems it's going to spin over in a big part of 2017.

At the same time, we are glad that our very exciting LNG segment, we had the delivery since we last spoke of the Maria Energy and her immediate charter, so both our LNGs are being employed in a market that is still suffering with utilization close to 50%. So we were able to get 100% utilization on the LNG segment.

Also, I am very proud about our 96%-plus utilization in a very weak third quarter. Including repositioning of our assets and of course scheduled dry dockings -- four scheduled dry dockings.

We are looking at the future. We are building the Company for the future. As the Chairman said, by the middle of next year, we will have completed the majority of our new building program, and if the supply -- which I think it's very difficult right now to change the supply of tonnage for 2018 and 2019, which are in very, very low, at the historically low levels -- we expect to have the Company ready, full-fledged, and build up to take advantage of that market.

So I have to say we are guardedly optimistic going forward, and we're enjoying the strong spot market as we speak today. And with this, I will ask our Chief Operating Officer to tell us what has happened, George, operations wise, and then Paul will give us his report on the figures. Thank you.

Thank you, Nikolas. The Company reported today another profitable quarter and result for the nine months. 2016 is a landmark year for TEN, as its growth program, being the largest since inception in 1993, is coming to fruition with eight out of 15 new building vessels already delivered and earning income for the Company.

The third quarter is typically a slow demand quarter for tankers. However, this year, the softness in rate was more pronounced. Despite that, the overall picture for the year is positive, as rates have been significantly above the cyclical lulls of 2010, 2013. As expected, we have witnessed the markets rebound in the fourth quarter with VLCCs earning currently $50,000 per day, Suezmaxes averaging $38,000 and Aframaxes in excess of $33,000.

With the low all-in breakeven fleet that TEN owns, these freight rates -- these freight numbers are fine, but as we move further into the winter season and next year, we expect freight rates to move to even higher levels. For those of you who are connected to the Internet and our website, there is an online slide presentation, the format of which we will follow during the call.

Turning to slide number 3, with the key corporate highlights. 65 vessels pro-forma fleet, with 57 vessels currently in operation. Average age of the fleet, 7.7 years, versus 10 years for the world tanker fleet.

Balanced employment strategy that takes advantage of market peaks with profit sharing arrangements. Currently, 39 vessels are on secured employment, with average time charter tenor of 2.8 years. Modern, diversified fleet covering client transportation requirement in crude, products, shuttle tankers and LNG. Highly efficient operations with consistent high fleet utilizations, 96.3% for the third quarter of 2016.

The next slide has the main financial highlights of our press release, which Paul will present in more detail. I would like to just highlight the profitability and the Company's strong financial position. Slide 5, we have again the fleet, the 57 vessels that we have, which operate in crude products, shuttle tankers and LNG.

We took deliveries during the quarter of three new buildings, two Panamax LR1 vessels and one Aframax tanker. We also announced today the delivery of another Aframax tanker, the fourth in a series of nine we built for Statoil.

In the last 12 months, TEN took delivery of eight new building vessels and two more of them Suezmaxes. All new building vessels were delivered with long-term employment attached, ranging from three to 12 years, including charter renewal options.

Next year, we expect to take delivery of seven new building vessels; five Aframax tankers, one Suezmax shuttle tanker and one VLCC. With the exception of the VLCC, which is currently under negotiation for charter, the rest of the vessels have employment of minimum five years that could go to 12 with charter renewal options.

In our LNG fleet, we took delivery of our second new building LNG vessel, Maria Energy, in October. The vessel commenced immediately a medium-term time charter with escalating rates, reflecting the market's expected improvement. The Company's first LNG vessel, Neo Energy, is also chartered for the next 2.5 years in a floating storage contract.

In slide number 6, we have the clients of TEN, which are all blue-chip names, and with whom the Company is doing repeat business over the years thanks to the quality of service, fleet modernity and the safety record of the enterprise fleet.

Slide 7 shows the breakeven cost for the various vessel types that form the enterprise fleet. The cost base, as you can see, is low, as TEN built most of the fleet before the rise of new building price. The purchasing power of TCM and the stringent cost control by management, which reduced fleet operating levels, must also be highlighted. 66% of the remaining available days of 2016 have been fixed, and 60% of the 2017 fleet operating days are also booked forward.

The next slide tells us about the market. Oil demand continues to grow, and according to the latest from the International Energy Agency, the average growth for the year is 1.2 million barrels per day. The same average growth number is forecasted for next year. Both these numbers are good for the business.

OPEC is producing at record levels, 33.8 million barrels per day, the production number in October. Production in Nigeria and Libya finally recovered after September, and flows from Iraq hit all-time-high levels. The production recovery in Nigeria and Libya is especially positive for tankers, as both countries are main loading areas, and lack of cargoes or continued disruptions have been responsible for the recent weak rate environment.

We have weighed the results of OPEC's meeting tomorrow. However, it seems that there is no agreement as we speak within OPEC and with the main non-OPEC producers. So any potential production cuts or production freezes that will be decided could have little market impact as the current production base is at record high levels and implementation of past production cuts have been -- have not been fully materialized.

Lower oil prices continue to support strong demand, especially in the United States of America, mainly consumer demand, China consumer demand and stockpiling for strategic reserves and India.

Looking at the supply side, on slide 9, the tanker order book is coming down, with most new building vessels expected to be delivered between the start of the year and the end of the first half. However, a big part of the existing fleet is over 15 years.

The implementation of new environmental regulations with high compliance costs and further discrimination against older tonnage could lead to an increase in scrapping. Far Eastern shipyards are restructuring and reduced capacity while availability bank finance is very selective and shrinking. We have seen no significant orders for delivery after 2018, which is positive for freight rates and the start of another upcycle for tankers.

We announce today on slide 10 our next dividend of $0.05 per share, which will be paid on December 22 to the shareholders of record on December 16. In total, since 2002, TEN has paid $10.41 in cash dividends or approximately $440 million. And this compares with a listing price at our IPO of $7.50.

So the average yield since the IPO has been 5.25% per annum. In addition, the Company has repurchased stock worth $103 million since our buyback program started in 2005, with approximately $21 million during 2016.

That concludes the operational part of our presentation. Paul will walk you through the financial highlights for the third quarter and nine months of the year. Paul?

Thank you, George. Quarter three was a difficult quarter, partly in line with seasonal expectations, but exacerbated, as the Chairman has said, by increased vessel capacity, production disruptions and reduced refinery output. With 60% of our fleet employed on time charters and the rest fully employed, our operations were able to provide a net income of $2 million before preference dividends.

Nine-month net income was $44 million. The LNG carrier Neo Energy underwent a dry docking, rolled forward to prepare for its storage charter starting late October. Together with the soft LNG market, this prevented the vessel enjoying any substantive employment in the quarter, in contrast to the previous quarter three.

However, the new vessels added over the prior 12 months generated enough net income in quarter three to more than compensate for this. From September 30 to the end of 2017, another 10 vessels will have joined our fleet, all, bar one, with time charters.

The overall daily average TCE rate in the nine months as $20,800, while in quarter three it was $17,600. The majority of the larger crude vessels generated revenue close to or comfortably above breakeven. Panamax rates remain steady, as all these vessels are on time charter, some at very strong rates, while Handymax daily earnings were just short of breakeven.

Handysize vessels, however, were nearly all on the spot market, and their rates languished accordingly. Although they covered the running costs, they brought the fleet average TCE for the quarter below the otherwise level of $21,000 per day per vessel. While such rates put some pressure on our cash flows, we were still able to achieve more than overall breakeven, keep healthy cash balances and maintain a strong balance sheet as we enter the winter period with a much stronger crude market.

Our operating expenses have been held down. Daily average OpEx per vessel for quarter three fell 6% to $7620, due to continued efforts by our technical managers to manage the vessels more cost effectively. This has been helped by further economies of scale as the fleet grows, and by the impact of modern designs and technology, providing our new vessels with lower running costs.

In addition, daily overhead costs per vessel at $1250 remained low by industry standards. Finance cost increased, mainly due to new debt for vessel deliveries and increases in Libor, and because in the prior quarter three, there was a nonrecurring $3 million gain on a prepaid loan.

In quarter three, we drew $149 million debt and repaid $118 million debt. So total debt outstanding at September 30 was close to $1.6 billion, and net debt to capital was at 49%. Since September 30, we've taken delivery of three new buildings and drawn down $150 million debt, plus a further $16 million pre-delivery finance for vessels under construction.

There are seven vessels under construction, all for delivery in 2017. We have $287 million remaining to be paid, of which $224 million will be with the arranged debt. And this concludes my comments, and now I'll pass it back to Nikolas.

Thank you, Paul. Again, well done in keeping another profitable quarter, regardless of a difficult market condition. I think our aim is to continue building the fleet, a big and quality fleet, keep the operating expenses -- and I think we had a reduction of operating expenses by 6%. That shows that our management is able to react very quickly when the market is not on our side, and I think we have to commend our technical managers on that.

We are closing right now -- we are up 60% of coverage in our fleet. I think before the end of the year, we will be able to announce another three or four vessels with long-term employments. We are in negotiating, so we could finish the year with 65%, and then as the vessels come, the scheduled vessels with long-term employment, our first next delivery is our VLCC, the Hercules in the middle of January in Korea. And I have to say there is a lot of interest for employments for that ship, very similar to her sister vessel, which is chartered out for four years.

Other than that, all our other vessels have long-term employments, so we are looking for 2016 has been a very constructive year for the base of the Company, building the base. 2017, we will complete the building of the Company, and I think 2018 and going forward, we will be able to take advantage of the good, solid base with our first-class quality assets chartered to all the major oil companies.

So we are looking at the future optimistically. The spot market that has surprised us very positively and it has shown it has -- that the market has legs. Right now, it has -- we are not far from the levels we were a year ago, and it seems it's growing. Winter has not yet hit hard in -- well, in Europe, and we expect it to be quite a cold winter. And with that, we hope to be able to have better news for you for the whole year and then for the first quarter.

With that, I would like to open the floor for any questions. Thank you.

(Operator Instructions). Jon Chappell, Evercore.

Thank you. Good afternoon, guys.

Hi, Jon.

Just two for me today. The first one is on the dividend. So you've been really consistent since the beginning of 2013, slow and steady with the dividend, good markets and bad. And then a little drop here in the third quarter, which is understandable given the third quarter weakness, but a little bit surprising given your prior consistency and your optimism on the future, not to mention all of your fixed backlog with the new build time charters coming in.

So can you just talk a little bit why the downdraft in the third quarter and how we should think about the dividend strategy going forward?

Yes, well, if -- that's a very good point, Jon. If you look back -- I think if you look on page 10, we have the dividend. In 2013, we were down to $0.09 for the year. We increased from $0.09 to $0.13 -- sorry, $9 million. Yes, $9 million, we to $13 million. We went to $21 million, and right now we are -- so we have been going, we have been increasing it steadily in small amounts. We had to react I would say to what was happening around us in the environment with all our peer group.

And I think that it is a reaction to a slow quarter. So we never feel comfortable on paying out more than we could earn in this quarter, but again, this -- we hope to be able to increase it if the market continues.

So then if you had to adjust then to the third quarter, should we think going forward that it's going to be kind of volatile from quarter to quarter depending on whether the seasonality in that quarter, the cyclicality of that part of the cycle? Or should we think kind of like a return to the consistency that you had just mentioned from 2013 up until the last quarter?

I would like to believe that this would be. If the market continues to show the performance it has, this could be the lowest part of the dividend. And then increasing as you know, we -- the management is the major shareholder, so dividend is very important for all of us. It's an important factor. We see eye to eye with the investors in this.

But of course, on the other hand, we cannot in a market that had -- in a third quarter that was very poor, we did not feel comfortable, and if you have -- I'm sure you looked at all our peer group. They have slapped either the dividends down to zero or give a much smaller dividend. So I think we took the judgment of following what the other -- what the market is doing, but hoping from that we'll be -- to be able to build on top of this.

All right. My second one, Nik, is also for you. We've read a lot about these regulations and as the Chairman of Intertanko, you're probably even more in tune with them than any of us. So can you just talk about the costs that you envision for your fleet associated with both ballast water treatment and the new sulfur emissions over the next couple of years? And how you think that may develop then both your fleet directly from a cost perspective but then also potentially creating a two-tiered market the next couple of years?

Well yes, this is -- we could have a conversation that will put the rest of the callers to sleep, I think, because it's very technical. But it is very, very important, the way the market is going. Let's go into the dirty water ballast treatment, which still we do not have any providers approved by the US Coast Guard, which is a very large market for us. And we have to find someone to use as a provider from now until September.

I think the negotiations that we as owners are having with IMO and the Coast Guard is that we will be required to have the system, whatever that system will be, implemented on our vessels in the next really five years. So that gives us time.

The technology right now is at around I would say just under $1 million, the existing technology. It's an untested technology. I think by -- in the next five years -- and that's why you will see perhaps a lot of companies going out and passing a special survey from now until September of the ships in order to get -- to gain those five years. This is what we're planning to do, so we might have a little bit more pressure on the cash flow, because some of the ships will be passing special survey in cooperation with our charters.

I believe that from now in five years, technology will be much cheaper than it is today, more advanced. So I would estimate a $250,000 per vessel after five years. I think that's where we expect the dirty water ballast technology to be, which is a significant amount, but it's not unbearable for ships.

If it was, if you had to do today, it would be $1 million, and for a simple -- for 60-odd vessels that we have, it was going to be a very big hit, not only for us but all the peer group. And I think most of the peer group, the owners were taking -- will be taking these measures.

Right.

And again, I repeat, there's no approved technology, so it's really hard for anybody to start doing things on a ship, and because it might end up doing the wrong thing that will not be approved. So that's where we stand with that.

With the sulfur content for 2020, the majority of our fleet is on time charter, so a lot of the obligation of the fuel will be on the charterers, for the charters. The charterers are the major oil companies, so they can provide bankers much easier than the owners can. So I think that will solve -- we strongly believe there will be enough fuel, fuel additives or diesel fuel to cover that in four years.

We do not -- however, I would say that if we would be looking for a new building going forward today, we might consider having the option of a scrubber on the ship. I don't want to put everybody else to sleep, but scrubber is a technology that actually you make your own ship into a refinery. I think this is the wrong thing to do. Our ships are not refineries. They visit refineries every time, but I think the market will work, sort itself out.

It's very similar to many, many years ago, 30, 40 years ago, when unleaded fuel for cars started. People would say, where are you going to get the unleaded fuel? But now, it's a reality. So it's really for modern ships like ourselves, I think we will find the solution with the charterers' help.

Okay, very helpful. Thanks a lot, Nik.

Noah Parquette, JPMorgan.

Thanks. I just wanted to ask about your costs that come down quite a bit on a per-day basis. Just talk a little bit more about what's driving that. Is that more modern ships in your fleet? Is there anything you're doing operationally and can we expect this going forward?

Yes, thank you, Noah. Well, I think the stronger dollar has helped, and it's going to help us again even because for the first nine months, the effect of the dollar is not as big, but I think as we go forward, the stronger dollar is going to help --

Will help us keep the cost down.

Yes, will help us, so that --

The last year, there hasn't been much of a decrease, but we're now at a stable level with the dollar. And hopefully it will -- the dollar will strengthen even further each month.

Yes, so I think a strong dollar will help us on that. But of course, young ships have less demands for maintenance, and I think that's another factor. And we are working -- we have on-hands management. We run everything from the same office that we are talking to you today, so we have on-hands management and try to keep expenses low, so it's not that our technical managers are located somewhere in the Far East and we talk to them once a day over the phone.

We just -- we kick the tires as we say literally and I can see our technical managers smiling here, because sometimes we kick a bit too hard the tires and try to keep our operating expenses low.

Okay, and then I just wanted to ask about that table you have laying out the order book versus ships older than 15 years. We haven't seen a lot of scrapping, and the scrapping that has happened has been above that age.

Do you expect scrapping to tick up next year? Do you expect the average age to decrease? What's the sequencing in how the cycle plays out and when we can see scrapping pick up?

Yes, I think the question we have this also -- there will be effect on the question we discussed before, which had to do with the new technologies that are required in the ships, so dirty water ballast treatment.

So for a lot of people, when I say they are going to be 15 years old, so they will be passing their third or due to pass their third special survey, might not want to spend a couple of million dollars in -- on a 15-year-old ship, so we expect scrapping to increase, yes. That's the short answer.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

Michael Webber, Wells Fargo.

Okay, no response. Spiro Dounis, UBS Securities.

Hey, everyone. Thanks for taking the question. Nik, maybe this one's for you. We're hearing that some of the energy majors are getting a little nervous that the order book actually is looking so light in 2018.

Obviously, they require newer ships a lot of the time, and so I think what we're hearing is that they're actually pushing for more orders to get placed. Just wondering, given that they make up a lot of your customer base, are you starting to see those sort of inbound enquiries coming in or any noticeable change?

Well, I cannot say that we see orders from the majors. Of course, they are looking to owners like ourselves and our peer group to come up with vessels, but of course it has to make sense, and that's a long-term business.

So the truth is, we are seeing a lot of requirement for long time charters, which is something that makes sense, and it's very true to the way we run the Company. We look at it as an industrial Company that has a big part of its business, as I said, 60% of our business as we're going forward for 2017 and on is already chartered out.

I hope by the end, before the end of the year, with the market helping right now, that it will be closer to 65% and we will reach 70% with the deliveries of the new ships. So we are seeing oil companies understanding that the market will be significantly better in the second part of 2017 and 2018 and 2019, because there are not really any orders out there.

Okay. And then just in terms of share repurchases, I know it's never really been a big part of your capital return strategy, but just I guess with the dividend now cut back a bit here and your share price where it is, just wondering how you're thinking about your appetite to repurchase shares here. I know I think you lifted the program up a quarter or two ago, maybe balancing that with lifting the dividend back up going forward?

Well, looking back, we have spent in excess of $100 million in recent times buying shares. It hasn't helped very much our share price. We spent more than $20 million in buying back the shares that we issued against purchasing of the two VLCCs. We issued those shares at around $10, and I think we were able to purchase in the mid -- in $5.50, so we felt that it was a good investment.

Priority will be given to dividend, and after that, of course, when our new building program ends, which is in the third and -- third quarter of 2017, we will consider buyback also.

Okay, last one from me, just around the Hercules, it sounds like in the middle of negotiations now, so certainly don't want to get ahead of ourselves. But just in terms of the tenor, maybe how we should be thinking about, is it more along the lines of a one-year time charter that maybe bridges the gap to better times, or are you actually looking to do something a little more longer than that.

We have offers, a lot of offers, on the table, ranging from one year up to 12 years.

Wow.

That we are negotiating, so it's a good -- it's a quality problem to have at this stage. Always, we wouldn't mind since the 12-year charter is a first class -- it's a major company. As long as we can convince them, and we're getting there for minimum in profit share, we would rather look at the longer period. But that's where we are.

Yes, that's certainly a good problem to have. Appreciate the time, guys. Thank you.

Thank you.

(Operator Instructions). Ben Friedman, Morgan Stanley.

Hey, guys. Thanks for taking the call. Just a few questions. Most have already been answered, but just first on relatively housekeeping issues, what's your remaining CapEx in 2016 and 2017?

We have $287 million still to pay, and that will pretty well all be within 2017.

Okay.

Of that, $224 million will come from debt and the remainder from cash.

Great. Thank you. And then I guess just one question, so it seems as though you just looked up the Maria Energy and exercised the options there. I'm just curious on your prospects for this market. It seems as though it's going through gradual improvement, but I'm curious to see your thoughts here and how this chartering process, whether there's been more excitement around the space.

Yes, this is -- we believe in the future of gas as a major commodity that will be carried by sea, so I think -- its importance will be growing, and that's why we have invested at least in a small way. We have a diversified company of energy companies, and the same way we have VLCCs and product carriers, crude carriers, we are looking at the LNG segment.

We believe that this market will move, and as long as our clients are looking for vessels with long-term employment, we will invest in this market further. We don't have any immediate plans.

I think right now we have our hands full of -- we're in the middle of our growth program. We have our hands full with our deliveries, and as soon as we finish with that, we will be looking to expand on the LNG segment. So our aim is to have half a dozen of those ships I would say in the next four or five years.

Great.

With long-term employment.

All right. Thanks so much, guys.

There are no further questions at this time. Speaker, please continue.

Thank you very much for your time. As we said, it has been a challenging quarter, but it has been also interesting, because it's always a challenging quarter helps you and helps the Company readjust its cost structure, and that's what we have done in a major way. We are preparing the Company in a -- for what we believe are going to be better days in the fourth and first quarter, and in general in 2017.

And we're looking for -- thank you for your support and hopefully our share price will finally react to where this Company is going. Mr. Chairman?

Well thank you all. We believe that this is stellar performance, considering the times we're in. Personally, I feel that the market continues not to distinguish among sectors in the shipping world and among companies within the sector.

TEN continues to maintain its long-term stability attributes and profitability, and I certainly believe that the share price has quite a way to go to reflect the realities of the quality of TEN's management. So that's it for me, and congratulations to Nikolas Tsakos and the team.

And the team will be in New York for the Capital Link event in two weeks, and we'll be very happy if anybody would like to ask face-to-face questions, so we will have the team there. Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Thank you. That does conclude the conference for today. Thank you all for participating, and you may now disconnect.