Talkspace Inc (TALK) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

At this time, I'd like to welcome everyone to the Talkspace second-quarter 2025 earnings call. The press release and presentation of earnings results can be accessed on Talkspace's IR website. The presentation will be used to walk you through today's remarks.

現在，我歡迎大家參加 Talkspace 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。新聞稿和收益結果介紹可在 Talkspace 的 IR 網站上查閱。簡報將幫助您了解今天的演講。

Leading today's call are CEO, Dr. Jon Cohen; and CFO, Ian Harris. Management will offer their prepared remarks and then take your questions. Chief Technology Officer, Gil Margolin, will join for the Q&A -- Q-and-answer session of today's call.

主持今天電話會議的是執行長喬恩·科恩博士和財務長伊恩·哈里斯。管理層將發表準備好的發言，然後回答您的問題。技術長 Gil Margolin 將參加今天電話會議的問答環節。

Certain measures that will be discussed on today's call are expressed on a non-GAAP basis and have been adjusted to exclude the impact of one-off items. Reconciliations of the non-GAAP measures are included in the earnings release and on the website, talkspace.com.

今天電話會議上將討論的某些指標是以非公認會計準則為基礎表示的，並且已經進行了調整以排除一次性項目的影響。非公認會計準則 (non-GAAP) 指標的對帳資訊包含在收益報告和網站 talkspace.com 中。

As a reminder, the company will be discussing forward-looking information today, which may include forecasts, targets, and other statements regarding plans, goals, strategic priorities, and anticipated financial results. While these statements are representative of the company's best current judgment about future results and performance as of today, actual results are subject to many risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from expectations. Important factors that may affect future results are described on Talkspace's most recent SEC reports and today's earnings press release. For more information, please review the Safe Harbor disclaimer on slide 2.

提醒一下，公司今天將討論前瞻性訊息，其中可能包括預測、目標以及有關計劃、目標、策略重點和預期財務結果的其他聲明。雖然這些聲明代表了公司目前對未來結果和業績的最佳判斷，但實際結果受許多風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果與預期有重大差異。Talkspace 最新的 SEC 報告和今天的收益新聞稿中描述了可能影響未來結果的重要因素。欲了解更多信息，請參閱幻燈片 2 上的安全港免責聲明。

Now, I will turn the call over to Dr. Jon Cohen.

現在，我將把電話轉給喬恩·科恩博士。

Good morning, and thank you for joining the call today to review our second-quarter results.

早安，感謝您今天參加電話會議來回顧我們的第二季業績。

We made meaningful progress on several initiatives across the business and added a number of new wins and renewals in the quarter. As I mentioned before, nearly two-thirds of the American population now have access to Talkspace through their healthcare insurance at no or minimal cost. Recently, we further broadened our reach with the launch of several additional large Blues plans to include Texas, Illinois, and Idaho, adding another 16 million covered lives. With so many people now having access, our 2025 priorities have been oriented around bringing more of them to Talkspace and keeping them on the platform.

我們在整個業務的多項舉措上取得了有意義的進展，並在本季度獲得了許多新的勝利和續約。正如我之前提到的，現在有近三分之二的美國人可以透過醫療保險免費或以最低成本使用 Talkspace。最近，我們進一步擴大了覆蓋範圍，推出了幾項額外的大型 Blues 計劃，將德克薩斯州、伊利諾伊州和愛達荷州納入其中，新增了 1600 萬受保人。現在有這麼多的人可以使用 Talkspace，我們 2025 年的首要任務就是讓更多的人使用 Talkspace 並讓他們留在平台上。

Our strategy in the first half of the year was to increase our marketing efforts, as well as to make meaningful investments in our product to achieve that goal. This includes major improvements across the member journey, from increasing eligibility and checkout rates to optimizing therapist matching, streamlining booking and scheduling, strengthening retention between sessions, and enhancing care quality by keeping members actively engaged in their therapeutic journey.

我們上半年的策略是加大行銷力度，並對我們的產品進行有意義的投資以實現這一目標。這包括對會員整個治療過程的重大改進，從提高資格和結帳率到優化治療師匹配、簡化預約和安排、加強療程之間的保留，以及透過讓會員積極參與治療過程來提高護理品質。

As a result of our actions, we saw positive momentum from these investments during the quarter. Unique active payor members grew 10% sequentially, an increase of approximately 10,000 members from Q1, the largest quarterly increase we've seen in two years and an increase of 25% in the last quarter. Building on the momentum in the last few quarters, payor sessions also benefited, increasing 10% sequentially and 29% year over year. We view the strength in these KPIs as indicators of positive momentum heading into the back half of 2025.

由於我們的行動，我們在本季度看到了這些投資的積極勢頭。獨立活躍付費會員數量環比增長 10%，較第一季增加約 10,000 名會員，這是我們兩年來看到的最大季度增幅，上一季增幅為 25%。基於過去幾季的勢頭，付款人會話也受益匪淺，較上季成長 10%，較去年同期成長 29%。我們認為這些 KPI 的強勁表​​現預示著 2025 年下半年將呈現正面動能。

Earlier this year, we announced that we are live in all 50 states for traditional Medicare, and we continue to be added in network across more Medicare Advantage plans. As with any new demographic, we are being prudent in navigating how to best engage this new population early on, but are seeing the results of our efforts as Medicare registrations continue to grow month over month.

今年早些時候，我們宣布已在美國全美 50 個州上線傳統醫療保險，並將繼續加入更多醫療保險優勢計劃的網絡。與任何新的人口統計數據一樣，我們正在謹慎地探索如何儘早最好地吸引這一新人群，但隨著醫療保險註冊人數逐月增長，我們看到了努力的成果。

On our last call, we also discussed that we had rolled out additional military coverage with the launch of TRICARE West. We remain focused on bringing Talkspace to as many active duty military members and their families as possible and are pleased with how this population is adopting Talkspace. Our targeted approach to expanding these military communities has so far proven successful and cost effective.

在我們上次通話中，我們還討論了隨著 TRICARE West 的推出，我們已經推出了額外的軍事保險。我們仍然致力於將 Talkspace 帶給盡可能多的現役軍人及其家人，並對這些人群採用 Talkspace 的方式感到滿意。到目前為止，我們擴大這些軍事社區的針對性方法已被證明是成功且具有成本效益的。

Given the importance of community for military families, we have taken a more localized approach to marketing. We've expanded our digital community grassroots efforts on the ground by working with organizations in areas with high base concentration. Our success in delivering therapy to this population is reaffirmed with our renewal of our separate direct-to-enterprise contract with the US Navy, delivering services to six naval bases around the country.

考慮到社群對軍人家庭的重要性，我們採取了更在地化的行銷方式。我們透過與基層高度集中地區的組織合作，擴大了我們在當地的數位社區基層工作。我們與美國海軍續簽了單獨的直接面向企業合同，為全國六個海軍基地提供服務，這再次證明了我們為該人群提供治療的成功。

Our pipeline for direct-to-enterprise clients remains strong, with a number of contracts working their way through, as well as several new wins and renewals, including InjuryRx, a large personal injury telemedicine platform. On the traditional employer side, new opportunities have taken longer to close in the first half of the year than anticipated, but we experienced a particularly strong quarter for mid-market renewals, which outperformed our expectations.

我們面向企業直銷客戶的管道依然強勁，許多合約正在順利簽訂，同時也贏得了幾項新合約和續約，其中包括大型人身傷害遠距醫療平台 InjuryRx。在傳統雇主方面，上半年新機會的達成時間比預期要長，但中端市場續約本季表現尤為強勁，超出了我們的預期。

The mental health crisis for youth remains a national challenge and is still a top priority for schools and state and local governments, which is reflected in our robust pipeline. We continue to make progress in this segment, most recently adding the University of Alaska at Anchorage, Chattahoochee Valley Community College, and the state of North Carolina, each of which will launch in Q3. Our relationship with North Carolina will be to serve as many as 20,000 youth impacted by the legal system, including teens who may have personally been detained or court involved, teens who have experienced living with victims of crime, or who are otherwise identified as at risk, such as those with incarcerated family members. With these numerous recent launches and a promising pipeline of opportunities, we expect to see direct-to-enterprise grow in Q3 and Q4.

青少年心理健康危機仍然是全國性的挑戰，仍然是學校、州和地方政府的首要任務，這反映在我們強大的人才儲備中。我們在這一領域繼續取得進展，最近又增加了阿拉斯加大學安克雷奇分校、查塔胡奇谷社區學院和北卡羅來納州，這些學校都將於第三季度啟動。我們與北卡羅來納州的合作關係將為多達 20,000 名受到法律制度影響的青少年提供服務，其中包括可能親自被拘留或涉嫌法庭的青少年、與犯罪受害者一起生活的青少年或被認定為處於危險中的青少年，例如有家庭成員被監禁的青少年。隨著最近這些產品的推出和大量有希望的機會，我們預計直接面向企業的業務將在第三季和第四季實現成長。

As part of our efforts to actively leverage multiple channels to raise awareness and drive members to our solution, we built on our existing partnerships and launched several new ones in the quarter. Specifically, we deepened our relationship with Amazon by launching our integration with Amazon Pharmacy. Now, members can seamlessly fulfill prescriptions from their Talkspace provider through Amazon Pharmacy and get fast, free home delivery, making the process more convenient for the patient and streamlining medication management and adherence support for providers.

作為我們積極利用多種管道來提高知名度並推動會員採用我們的解決方案的努力的一部分，我們在本季度建立了現有的合作夥伴關係並建立了幾個新的合作夥伴關係。具體來說，我們透過啟動與亞馬遜藥局的整合，加深了與亞馬遜的關係。現在，會員可以透過亞馬遜藥局無縫地從 Talkspace 提供者取得處方，並享受快速、免費的送貨上門服務，這使得患者的流程更加便捷，並簡化了藥物管理和提供者的依從性支持。

Also, in July, we announced a new partnership with Tia Health, a women's health company focused on providing integrated personalized care, establishing Talkspace as Tia's primary therapy partner, whereby we provide integrated mental healthcare that supports women across all stages of life. Talkspace will be working closely with Tia's primary care providers to ensure seamless and comprehensive care that addresses both physical and mental wellness.

此外，今年 7 月，我們宣布與專注於提供全面個人化護理的女性健康公司 Tia Health 建立新的合作夥伴關係，將 Talkspace 確立為 Tia 的主要治療合作夥伴，我們將為各個年齡層的女性提供全面心理健康護理支援。Talkspace 將與 Tia 的初級保健提供者密切合作，確保提供無縫且全面的護理，以解決身心健康問題。

This new relationship represents Talkspace's continued expansion into the women's health space, along with our Ovia Health collaboration and our existing Evernow partnership. We look forward to continuing to identify like-minded partners focused on the shared mission of enhancing patients' mental health wellness, along with physical wellness. This approach allows us to benefit from the overlapping audience to drive awareness and also cross-referrals for the continuity of care.

這項新的合作關係代表 Talkspace 將繼續向女性健康領域擴張，同時與 Ovia Health 合作，以及與 Evernow 合作。我們期待繼續尋找志同道合的合作夥伴，致力於增強患者的心理健康和身體健康的共同使命。這種方法使我們能夠從重疊的受眾中受益，從而提高認識，並透過交叉推薦來確保護理的連續性。

Turning now to an update on our many innovations centered around AI. This year, we made meaningful investments in AI across the business, rolling out a number of tools and initiatives aimed at making the therapy journey stickier and supporting our providers in our mission to deliver the highest quality of care to our members.

現在來介紹一下我們圍繞人工智慧的眾多創新的最新情況。今年，我們在整個業務範圍內對人工智慧進行了有意義的投資，推出了一系列工具和舉措，旨在使治療過程更加緊密，並支持我們的服務提供者為我們的會員提供最高品質的護理。

Since the March launch of Talkcast, which is the AI-powered program that generates personalized podcasts for patients, allowing them to reflect on topics they discussed in sessions with their therapist, we are seeing a positive impact. When a member opens a Talkcast episode after their first session, they are 14% more likely to complete a second session and 29% more likely to complete a third. These podcasts keep patients more engaged between sessions, helping them to better understand their therapy learnings.

自從三月推出 Talkcast 以來，我們看到了正面的影響。 Talkcast 是一個由人工智慧驅動的程序，可以為患者產生個人化播客，讓他們能夠反思在與治療師的會談中討論過的話題。當會員在第一次會話後開啟 Talkcast 劇集時，他們完成第二次會話的可能性增加 14%，完成第三次會話的可能性增加 29%。這些播客讓患者在治療期間更投入，幫助他們更能理解治療成果。

On the provider side, our use of AI continues to drive efficiency gains for our therapists. This quarter, we launched AI-powered Smart Evaluation, a tool that automatically generates high-quality intake documentation for first sessions. This saves providers 10 to 15 minutes of manual documentation and allows them to focus on what is most important, building a relationship with the patient in front of them.

在提供者方面，我們對人工智慧的使用持續提高治療師的效率。本季度，我們推出了人工智慧智慧評估工具，可以自動產生首次會議的高品質攝取文件。這為服務提供者節省了 10 到 15 分鐘的手動文件記錄時間，使他們能夠專注於最重要的事情，與他們面前的患者建立關係。

In partnership with the AWS Generative AI Innovation Center, we are developing a foundational safety and quality model to analyze therapy sessions for both clinical quality and clinical risk. We've long maintained high clinical quality standards, and by integrating this AI with our proprietary risk algorithms, we can now scale those standards even further, adding new capabilities and efficiencies that were previously out of reach. This enables us to deliver consistent, high-quality care at greater scale while continuing to prioritize safety, outcomes, and patient experience.

我們與 AWS 生成式 AI 創新中心合作，正在開發基礎安全和品質模型，以分析治療過程的臨床品質和臨床風險。我們長期以來一直保持著較高的臨床品質標準，透過將這種人工智慧與我們專有的風險演算法相結合，我們現在可以進一步擴展這些標準，增加以前無法實現的新功能和效率。這使我們能夠在更大範圍內提供一致、高品質的護理，同時繼續優先考慮安全、結果和患者體驗。

This new safety and quality model creates a durable competitive advantage by combining two of our unique and valuable assets, our extensive data bank, and our deep clinical expertise. The combination of expert clinical judgment and powered by vertical-specific AI applied to vast amounts of real-world data will further delineate our behavioral health platform and our network, strengthening our position and establishing a responsible framework for future innovation in behavioral health. We also expect that it will increase retention for our members.

這種新的安全和品質模式結合了我們的兩項獨特而寶貴的資產——我們廣泛的資料庫和我們深厚的臨床專業知識，創造了持久的競爭優勢。專家臨床判斷與應用於大量真實世界數據的垂直特定人工智慧相結合，將進一步勾勒出我們的行為健康平台和網絡，加強我們的地位，並為未來行為健康領域的創新建立負責任的框架。我們也希望它能夠提高我們會員的保留率。

We also continue to make improvements to our suicide detection technology, further refining the risk algorithm and expanding it to other areas of concern, such as substance misuse and abuse and neglect. Further, we retrained it on newer data, which is important, so it can stay up to date on how people actually talk. As a result, the new algorithm is measured to be 92% accurate, up from 83%.

我們也將繼續改進我們的自殺檢測技術，進一步完善風險演算法並將其擴展到其他關注領域，例如藥物濫用和忽視。此外，我們用更新的數據對其進行了重新訓練，這很重要，這樣它就可以及時了解人們的實際說話方式。經測量，新演算法的準確率從 83% 上升至 92%。

Last quarter, I announced that we were building a system of foundational large language models specifically for behavioral health. Unlike existing horizontal general-purpose LLMs, we are working closely with mental health clinicians experienced with evidence-based therapeutic frameworks, and we are training these models utilizing our own unique in-house de-identified clinical data set. This is one of the largest mental health data sets consisting of millions of therapeutic interactions that occurred on the Talkspace platform over the last 12 years.

上個季度，我宣布我們正在建立一個專門針對行為健康的基礎大型語言模型系統。與現有的橫向通用法學碩士不同，我們正與具有循證治療框架經驗的心理健康臨床醫生密切合作，並利用我們自己獨特的內部去識別臨床數據集來訓練這些模型。這是最大的心理健康資料集之一，包含過去 12 年在 Talkspace 平台上發生的數百萬次治療互動。

Talkspace behavioral health LLMs are being developed specifically to understand the language, complexity, and workflows of mental health delivery. Once up and running, these behavioral health LLMs will be an integral part of how we provide higher quality care to our Talkspace members. The AI platform will not only enhance existing Talkspace services, but also serve as a launchpad for future AI applications and behavioral health services, such as risk assessment tools, integrated tools that embed behavioral health intelligence into primary care workflows, structured intake systems, personalized routing to appropriate care levels, and enhanced client engagement tools.

Talkspace 行為健康法學碩士 (LLM) 課程專門用於了解心理健康服務的語言、複雜性和工作流程。一旦啟動並運行，這些行為健康法學碩士學位將成為我們為 Talkspace 會員提供更高品質護理不可或缺的一部分。該人工智慧平台不僅可以增強現有的 Talkspace 服務，還可以作為未來人工智慧應用和行為健康服務的啟動平台，例如風險評估工具、將行為健康智慧嵌入初級保健工作流程的整合工具、結構化攝取系統、個人化路由到適當的護理級別，以及增強的客戶參與工具。

Our foundational models won't just power the next generation of features on our platform, but will unlock an entirely new ecosystem of applications for mental health. We are making solid progress on this important initiative, and although still in the early stages of development, we expect to have an initial version available later this year. We are very bullish on the prospects of this initiative and are deploying CapEx investments to accelerate our progress. I am pleased with the work our team has done in the second quarter and feel that we have set ourselves up for success in the second half of the year.

我們的基礎模型不僅將為我們平台上的下一代功能提供支持，還將開啟一個全新的心理健康應用生態系統。我們正在這項重要舉措上取得堅實進展，儘管仍處於開發的早期階段，但我們預計將於今年稍後推出初始版本。我們對此舉的前景非常看好，並正在部署資本支出投資以加快我們的進展。我對我們團隊在第二季所做的工作感到滿意，並認為我們已經為下半年的成功做好了準備。

Now, I'll turn the call over to Ian to review the financials in more detail.

現在，我將把電話轉給伊恩，讓他更詳細地審查財務狀況。

Thanks, Jon, and good morning, everyone.

謝謝，喬恩，大家早安。

In the second quarter, we saw an acceleration in our Payor revenue and overall growth, driven by strong momentum in the engagement of unique active payor members and payor sessions, indicating that our technology and marketing investments early in the year are bearing fruit. On today's call, I'll review our quarterly results in detail, touch on our financial outlook, and discuss some of the assumptions supporting growth in the back half of the year.

在第二季度，我們看到付款人收入和整體成長加速，這得益於獨特活躍付款人會員和付款人會議參與度的強勁成長勢頭，這表明我們今年年初的技術和行銷投資正在取得成果。在今天的電話會議上，我將詳細回顧我們的季度業績，談及我們的財務前景，並討論支持下半年成長的一些假設。

Starting with second-quarter results, total revenue of $54.3 million increased 18% compared to the second quarter of last year, an acceleration from Q1 and a trend we expect to continue throughout the rest of the year. Payer revenue, that is revenue driven by consumers using Talkspace with their insurance benefits, was $40.5 million, representing growth of 35% year on year and continues to be our primary growth driver.

從第二季業績開始，總營收 5,430 萬美元，與去年第二季相比成長了 18%，比第一季有所加速，我們預計這一趨勢將在今年剩餘時間內持續下去。付款人收入，即消費者使用 Talkspace 及其保險福利所帶來的收入，為 4,050 萬美元，較去年同期成長 35%，並繼續成為我們的主要成長動力。

We conducted over 385,000 therapy sessions with our payor members, representing a 29% increase year on year, and had over 111,000 unique payor members active in the quarter, which was up 25% compared to a year ago and up 10% sequentially. As Jon mentioned, the approximately 10,000 additional active users is the largest sequential increase in over two years, reflecting the success we are seeing from our product and technology enhancements, as well as our efficient deployment of marketing investments.

我們與付款人會員進行了超過 385,000 次治療，年增 29%，本季活躍的獨立付款人會員超過 111,000 名，比去年同期增長 25%，比上一季增長 10%。正如喬恩所提到的，新增約 10,000 名活躍用戶是兩年多來最大的連續成長，反映了我們在產品和技術改進以及行銷投資有效部署方面取得的成功。

Our DTE revenue in the second quarter of $9.4 million was down 2% compared to a year ago. While we experienced better-than-expected renewal rates in the quarter, the timing of new wins took longer to close than expected. Several large deals we had expected to sign earlier in the year we did close on in the quarter. However, they closed towards the end of June and into July and will launch in Q3, helping to provide visibility in DTE growth for the second half. Overall, the pipeline remains robust, and there's been a notable pickup in the momentum of our discussions.

我們第二季的 DTE 營收為 940 萬美元，與去年同期相比下降了 2%。雖然本季我們的續約率優於預期，但新合約的達成時間比預期要長。我們原本預計在今年稍早簽署的幾筆大型交易確實在本季完成了。然而，他們在 6 月底和 7 月關閉了業務，並將在第三季推出，這有助於為下半年的 DTE 成長提供可見性。整體而言，通路依然強勁，我們的討論動能也明顯加快。

Consumer revenue from people paying out of pocket was $4.4 million in the quarter versus $6.5 million a year ago, as we now cover most Americans via in-network benefits, which naturally shifts checkout mix away from Consumer and towards Payor.

本季來自自付費用的消費者收入為 440 萬美元，而去年同期為 650 萬美元，因為我們現在透過網路內福利覆蓋大多數美國人，這自然將結帳組合從消費者轉向付款人。

Before I touch on adjusted gross profit, I want to flag one change in our financial presentation this quarter. Based on SEC guidance, this quarter, we consolidated our depreciation and amortization expense into its own operating expense line, fully removing it from cost of revenues where we had previously recognized certain cloud computing costs. As such, we reclassified historical periods to be apples to apples with the new presentation. This change does not impact our net results.

在談到調整後的毛利之前，我想指出本季財務報告中的一項變化。根據美國證券交易委員會的指導，本季度，我們將折舊和攤銷費用合併到其自己的營運費用項目中，將其從我們先前確認的某些雲端運算成本的收入成本中完全移除。因此，我們以新的呈現方式對歷史時期進行了重新分類。這項變更不會影響我們的淨結果。

Adjusted gross profit was $23.4 million in the quarter, an increase of 11% year on year. Gross margin was 43.1% compared to 45.7% a year ago, primarily reflecting the continued shift in our overall revenue mix towards the faster-growing Payor business.

本季調整後毛利為2,340萬美元，年增11%。毛利率為 43.1%，而去年同期為 45.7%，這主要反映了我們的整體收入結構繼續向成長更快的付款業務轉變。

In Q2, we also experienced a slight headwind to gross margin as a result of greater-than-normal hiring in our W-2 provider network. New hires carry a cost while we onboard and train the therapist prior to them having an active caseload with clients. This hiring class was larger than normal given the increased payor sessions we anticipate for the second half of the year as a result of our successful efforts in growing our user base.

在第二季度，由於我們的 W-2 供應商網路的招募量高於正常水平，我們的毛利率也遭遇了輕微的阻力。新聘用治療師需要付費，我們需要在治療師開始積極處理客戶案件之前對其進行入職培訓。由於我們在擴大用戶群方面所做的成功努力，我們預計下半年的付款人會議將會增加，因此這次招募的規模比平時要大。

Total operating expenses of $25.2 million increased approximately $600,000 versus the prior year and about $700,000 sequentially. The sequential increase was due mostly to non-recurring items, and the year-over-year increase was driven by a $1 million increase in sales and marketing. As a percentage of total revenue, OpEx represented 46.4% in this quarter compared to 53.3% a year ago, demonstrating the scalability inherent in our model.

總營運費用為 2,520 萬美元，比上年增加約 60 萬美元，比上一季增加約 70 萬美元。連續成長主要歸因於非經常性項目，年成長則得益於銷售和行銷費用增加 100 萬美元。作為總收入的百分比，本季營運支出佔 46.4%，而去年同期為 53.3%，證明了我們模型固有的可擴展性。

We've been pleased with the performance of our marketing efforts. With the overwhelming majority of our visitors now in-network, we saw CAC improve in the quarter, both sequentially and as compared to last year. Gap net loss of $500,000 was flat year over year. Adjusted EBITDA of $2.3 million compared to $1.2 million in the second quarter of last year, an increase of 93%.

我們對我們的行銷工作的效果感到滿意。由於現在絕大多數訪客都已加入網絡，我們看到本季的 CAC 無論是環比還是與去年相比都有所提高。Gap 淨虧損 50 萬美元，與去年同期持平。調整後 EBITDA 為 230 萬美元，而去年第二季為 120 萬美元，成長 93%。

Turning to the balance sheet. We ended the quarter with $103 million in cash and cash equivalents, including available-for-sale securities. This was down $5.6 million sequentially as a result of working capital timing, as well as our CapEx investments in our AI initiatives. In Q2, we also bought back approximately $1.4 million of stock, bringing total repurchase activity year to date to $8.4 million. Since our initial authorization program was announced last year, we've repurchased approximately $19.4 million in total.

轉向資產負債表。本季末，我們擁有 1.03 億美元的現金和現金等價物，包括可供出售證券。由於營運資本時機以及我們在人工智慧計畫中的資本支出投資，這一數字比上一季下降了 560 萬美元。在第二季度，我們還回購了約 140 萬美元的股票，使今年迄今的回購總額達到 840 萬美元。自去年宣布初步授權計畫以來，我們總共回購了約 1,940 萬美元。

Finally, turning to our guidance for the rest of the year. We are reiterating our full-year outlook of revenue between $220 million and $235 million and adjusted EBITDA of between $14 million and $20 million. Let me provide you with a little more insight into the assumptions supporting our view for growth in the back half.

最後，談談我們對今年剩餘時間的指導。我們重申全年營收預期：2.2 億美元至 2.35 億美元之間，調整後 EBITDA 預期：1,400 萬美元至 2,000 萬美元之間。讓我為您提供更多關於支持我們對下半年成長的看法的假設的見解。

In our Payor business, we expect continued annual growth in the 30% plus range. As we've discussed in the past, we've been making significant technology and product investments to improve our member journey, ultimately making it easier to find and stay in care. We've also increased our marketing investments for 2025, where we continue to see efficient spend, as I mentioned.

在我們的付款人業務中，我們預計年增長率將保持在 30% 以上。正如我們過去所討論的那樣，我們一直在進行大量的技術和產品投資，以改善我們的會員旅程，最終使他們更容易找到並繼續接受護理。正如我所提到的，我們也增加了 2025 年的行銷投資，我們將繼續看到高效率的支出。

The success of these two workstreams is apparent to us in key KPIs, such as unique active users and payor session growth. The Q2 increase in users gives us strong visibility into the second half, given the predictable retention curves and longer-tailed revenue profile of a payor user relative to our legacy consumer model. And the product and funnel optimizations will continue to pay dividends and drive new user growth through the rest of the year.

這兩個工作流程的成功在關鍵 KPI 中顯而易見，例如獨立活躍用戶和付款人會話成長。考慮到可預測的留存曲線和相對於我們傳統的消費者模型而言更長尾的付費客戶收入狀況，第二季度用戶數量的增長讓我們對下半年有了很強的可預見性。產品和通路優化將繼續帶來回報，並在今年剩餘時間內推動新用戶的成長。

As Jon mentioned, we also added three Blues plans recently, representing an additional 16 million people. Blue Cross Blue Shield Texas went live in June, and Blue Cross Blue Shield Illinois went live just this past week. Both will have a positive contribution as we work to engage those populations through the rest of the year.

正如喬恩所提到的，我們最近還增加了三個 Blues 計劃，這意味著將新增 1600 萬人。德州藍十字藍盾於 6 月上線，伊利諾州藍十字藍盾上週上線。當我們在今年剩餘時間努力與這些人群互動時，兩者都將做出積極的貢獻。

For DTE, we continue to expect growth on a full-year basis in 2025. As mentioned, we outperformed our assumptions in terms of renewing with existing clients in the first half of the year. However, the timing of new wins and implementation of those deals were somewhat delayed into Q3 and Q4. Some of the recent announcements we've made of certain large wins, like InjuryRx and North Carolina, are just two examples of such deals and we expect continued momentum of closings and implementations through the rest of the year, which will contribute both to DTE revenue and adjusted EBITDA.

對於 DTE，我們預計 2025 年全年仍將成長。如上所述，我們在上半年與現有客戶續約的表現超出了我們的預期。然而，新勝利和這些交易的實施時間有所推遲，推遲到第三季和第四季。我們最近宣布的一些重大勝利，如 InjuryRx 和 North Carolina，只是此類交易的兩個例子，我們預計在今年剩餘時間內，交易的完成和實施勢頭將繼續保持，這將為 DTE 收入和調整後的 EBITDA 做出貢獻。

Expanding on EBITDA, as we alluded to in the past two calls, increased marketing investments was expected to weigh on OpEx in the first half. Sales and marketing expense in first half 2025 was approximately $2 million higher than in the first half of 2024. The revenue increases we expect in Payor and DTE should come with little to no incremental OpEx. This will help to drive the operating leverage we anticipate in the second half. Further, in June, we implemented a program of further operational efficiencies, which will drive even more G&A savings. The combination of the visibility we have in accelerating top-line growth and our G&A savings initiatives gives us the confidence to maintain our EBITDA range.

擴大 EBITDA，正如我們在過去兩次電話會議中提到的那樣，預計增加行銷投資將對上半年的營運支出造成壓力。2025 年上半年的銷售和行銷費用比 2024 年上半年高出約 200 萬美元。我們預期付款方和 DTE 的收入成長應該不會帶來營運支出的增量。這將有助於推動我們預期下半年的營運槓桿。此外，我們在六月實施了一項進一步提高營運效率的計劃，這將進一步節省一般及行政費用。我們在加速營收成長方面的可見性以及我們的一般及行政費用節省計劃相結合，使我們有信心維持我們的 EBITDA 範圍。

To wrap up, we anticipate that the investments in operations and marketing we made in the first half will translate into continued momentum through the second half of the year. We look forward to keeping you updated on our progress.

總而言之，我們預計上半年在營運和行銷方面的投資將轉化為下半年的持續發展動能。我們期待向您通報我們的進展。

With that, operator, let's open the call for questions.

接線員，現在讓我們開始提問吧。

(Operator Instructions) Richard Close, Canaccord Genuity.

（操作員指示）Richard Close，Canaccord Genuity。

Yeah, thanks for the questions. Congratulations on all the success. Maybe to start off, Ian, just since we just covered the guidance, can you just give us your thoughts in terms of -- I guess, especially on the EBITDA, how you're thinking about the lower end of the range? What does that contemplate versus getting to the higher end of the range?

是的，謝謝你的提問。祝賀一切成功。首先，伊恩，既然我們剛剛討論了指導，您能否就 EBITDA 方面談談您的想法，您如何看待該範圍的下限？與達到更高範圍相比，這有何意義？

Hey, Richard. Good morning. I mean, I think it's like every quarter and every year, it's always a trade-off between balancing near-term profitability and also making sure we're laying the groundwork for medium and longer-term growth. So there's levers at play for us, which we look at each quarter. And so the marketing piece being the most variable of the two, where should we wish to drive profitability and potentially sacrifice some future growth, we could do that. A lot of it can be the function of what the market environment is providing us and sort of where the ROI is on those dollars.

嘿，理查德。早安.我的意思是，我認為就像每個季度和每年一樣，我們總是需要在平衡短期獲利能力和確保為中長期成長奠定基礎之間進行權衡。因此，我們每季都會關註一些槓桿。因此，行銷部分是兩者中變化最大的部分，如果我們希望提高獲利能力並可能犧牲一些未來的成長，我們可以這樣做。這在很大程度上取決於市場環境為我們提供什麼，以及這些資金的投資報酬率是多少。

I think what I'm hoping you take away from today's call is that Q2 -- I alluded to some of the CAC improvements we saw -- the market environment was really, really favorable. And it increased both sequentially and year on year in terms of the efficiency we're seeing with our marketing spend. Now, part of that is what we're doing day to day with the marketing team. A lot of that is -- and hopefully this was clear in the prepared remarks -- all of the product and technology tweaks, investments, new funnels, removing friction, and making it a much easier member journey and therefore increasing conversion.

我想我希望您從今天的電話會議中了解到的是，第二季——我提到了我們看到的一些 CAC 改進——市場環境確實非常有利。就我們所看到的行銷支出效率而言，它不僅環比成長，而且比去年同期成長。現在，其中一部分就是我們與行銷團隊每天進行的工作。其中許多是——希望這在準備好的發言中已經清楚表明了——所有產品和技術的調整、投資、新管道、消除摩擦，並使會員旅程變得更加輕鬆，從而提高轉換率。

So those are changes that are not one time in nature. We bear the sort of dividends from those optimizations into perpetuity and also can lead to a structural issue, where the more in-network lives we get, by definition, the more traffic, the greater percentage of traffic coming to our site will be eligible, will be in-network, and will flow through to that higher LTV bucket that we have of payor.

所以這些變化本質上並不是一次性的。我們永久地承擔這些優化帶來的紅利，同時也可能導致結構性問題，我們獲得的網絡內生活越多，根據定義，流量就越多，進入我們網站的流量比例就越大，將符合條件，將在網絡內，並將流向我們擁有的更高 LTV 付款人的桶。

So we're keeping the ranges as they are, Richard. I suspect in next quarter, maybe I'll be in a position to give a little bit more detail on how we're seeing the year, but that flexibility is something that we want to retain to give ourselves sort of maximum optionality. But what I want you to hear is the growth prospect is very strong for us and that's continued in July. So in terms of that trade-off I alluded to, we're keeping our foot on the gas.

因此我們會保持原有的範圍，理查德。我想在下個季度，我可能會能夠更詳細地介紹我們對今年的展望，但我們希望保留這種靈活性，以便為自己提供最大程度的選擇。但我想讓你們聽到的是，我們的成長前景非常強勁，而且這種勢頭在七月仍將持續。因此，就我所提到的權衡而言，我們將繼續加強。

Okay, that's helpful. And then maybe just diving into the Medicare a little bit -- in a little bit more detail, just an update there, obviously you have another quarter under your belt and some expanded MA relationships, it sounds like. But just maybe details on how you think that initial outreach is going. You said registrations were trending well. Just maybe a little bit more detail would be helpful.

好的，這很有幫助。然後也許只是稍微深入探討一下醫療保險 - 更詳細一點，只是一個更新，顯然你又有了一個季度的經驗和一些擴展的 MA 關係，聽起來是這樣。但也許只是關於您認為初步推廣進展如何的詳細資訊。您說註冊趨勢良好。也許再詳細一點會有幫助。

Yeah, nothing -- this is Jon -- much different except that it continues to grow month over month, and we continue to explore different states. MAs are first coming in as a state in the Medicare Advantage plans that are reaching back out for us to be in network. And we continue to refine our marketing efforts around how we approach the populations. We've tried a whole bunch of things, as you know, the first two quarters, but it continues to evolve in a positive sense.

是的，沒什麼——這是喬恩——有很大不同，除了它逐月持續增長，並且我們繼續探索不同的狀態。MA 首次以州身份加入醫療保險優勢計劃，該計劃正在努力讓我們加入網路。我們將繼續改進針對大眾的行銷工作。如你所知，在前兩個季度，我們嘗試了很多方法，但情況仍在繼續朝著正面方向發展。

Okay. I'll jump back in the queue. Thank you, and congratulations.

好的。我會重新回到隊列中。謝謝，恭喜你。

Bobby Brooks, Northland Capital Markets.

布魯克斯 (Bobby Brooks)，北國資本市場 (Northland Capital Markets)。

Hey. Good morning, guys. Thank you for taking my question. So all your KPIs in relation to utilization within Payor segment notably accelerated during the second quarter, which you guys described. And I think that dovetails well with your commentary from the first-quarter call that March and April saw very strong new user signups. So I'm curious to hear on two things. First, did the momentum and new user signups continue through second quarter and into July? Then secondly, were those new user signups the major dynamic driving this uptick in utilization?

嘿。大家早安。感謝您回答我的問題。因此，正如你們所描述的，與付款方部門利用率相關的所有 KPI 在第二季度都顯著加速。我認為這與您在第一季電話會議上的評論相吻合，即三月和四月新用戶註冊量非常強勁。所以我很好奇想聽兩件事。首先，這種勢頭和新用戶註冊是否能持續到第二季​​和七月？其次，新用戶註冊是否是推動使用率上升的主要動力？

Hey, Bobby. Thanks for the question. The short answer is yes. It wasn't like a lump sum in March that we then milled. If anything, it was actually accelerating throughout the quarter, which is to say we exited June at a higher user-based run rate, which we did not benefit yet from in terms of revenue. And again, we've seen that transfer continue into July.

嘿，鮑比。謝謝你的提問。簡短的回答是肯定的。這不像我們在三月就收到的一筆總額。如果有什麼不同的話，那就是整個季度它實際上都在加速，也就是說，我們在 6 月以更高的基於用戶的運行率結束，但就收入而言，我們還沒有從中受益。而我們再次看到這種轉移持續到了七月。

Got it. That's very helpful color. And then second, so average revenue per payor session declined a bit sequentially. I was curious if that was mostly just maybe a result of mix with more 30-minute sessions or 60-minute sessions. And maybe that mix change also ties into the sequential change in gross margins.

知道了。這是非常有用的顏色。其次，每個付款人會話的平均收入較上季下降。我很好奇這是否主要是因為混合了更多 30 分鐘的會議或 60 分鐘的會議。也許這種組合變化也與毛利率的連續變化有關。

So on the implied revenue per session, it was up 5%. You're near -- you're right. It was down a couple bucks per session sequentially. It's primarily driven by payor mix. Within each payor, to your point, it's session duration and exactly what types of codes are most prevalent. But it's also with our nationally contracted rates, if we, for example, embed and roll out a new directory with a certain payor and they become a larger driver percentage of the pies, that can have an impact.

因此，每場會議的隱含收入增加了 5%。你已經接近目標了——你是對的。每場會議的支出連續下降了幾美元。這主要受付款人組合的影響。在每個付款人中，就您的觀點而言，這是會話持續時間以及最普遍的代碼類型。但這也是與我們的全國合約費率有關，例如，如果我們嵌入並推出具有特定付款人的新目錄，並且他們成為更大比例的推動者，那麼這可能會產生影響。

Secondarily, but still sort of material impact, along with a lot of the product improvements we did this quarter, we've done a lot of sort of predictive analytics in anticipating no-show and late cancellation fees. We did a much better job in anticipating those and through our product getting out in front of them and rescheduling. Historically, if we were to incur that no-show session, and there's a revenue or a fee associated with that, that'd be very high margin revenue, but no accompanying session in the denominator. So the fact that we've been able to mitigate that will hit us on that revenue per session metric you're alluding to, but obviously improve us on retaining that customer. You can imagine your DLTV is likely to be cut short if there's cancellation fees involved and ultimately shows up in our higher session number overall.

其次，但仍然有實質的影響，隨著我們本季所做的大量產品改進，我們做了很多預測分析來預測未入住和延遲取消的費用。我們在預測這些方面做得更好，並透過我們的產品走在他們前面並重新安排時間。從歷史上看，如果我們發生這種未出席的會議，並且有與之相關的收入或費用，那將是利潤率非常高的收入，但分母中沒有伴隨的會議。因此，事實上我們已經能夠減輕這種影響，這將對我們提到的每次會話收入指標產生影響，但顯然會幫助我們留住該客戶。您可以想像，如果涉及取消費用，您的 DLTV 可能會被縮短，並最終出現在我們更高的整體會話數量中。

Got it. Super helpful color. And then just the last one for me, you guys -- I think, Jon, you spent a bit of time towards the end of your prepared remarks talking about these LLM models and you're thinking something should be out later this year. I was just trying to get a sense of -- and I definitely can understand how much value that could bring to other therapists, but I was just kind of curious, like, is that something that you would look to maybe sell externally or license that software? Is that something that's just going to be used within the Talkspace ecosystem?

知道了。超有用的顏色。然後對我來說只是最後一個問題，夥計們——喬恩，我想你在準備好的發言快結束時花了一些時間談論這些 LLM 模型，你認為今年晚些時候應該會有一些成果。我只是想了解一下——我當然可以理解這能為其他治療師帶來多大的價值，但我只是有點好奇，您是否會考慮將其對外銷售或授權該軟體？這是僅在 Talkspace 生態系統內使用的東西嗎？

So I would say any and all of the above, depending on what happens. Our view right now is to build the model with our substantial database. Once the model is built, we have certainly described internally at least 8 or 10 major possible use cases. But beyond that, whether or not someone would come to us to license it, someone would come to us to partner with it, there's some other use cases that I'm sure will evolve that we haven't thought about yet. All of that is possible and on the table. The plan right now though is to build it and then begin to see what happens after that occurs.

因此，我會說以上任何一種或所有說法，取決於實際情況。我們現在的想法是利用我們大量的資料庫來建立模型。一旦模型建立起來，我們肯定會在內部描述至少 8 到 10 個主要的可能用例。但除此之外，無論是否有人來找我們授權，是否有人來找我們合作，我確信還有一些我們還沒想到的其他用例會出現。所有這些都是可能的，而且正在討論中。不過，目前的計劃是先建造它，然後開始觀察建造之後會發生什麼。

Fair enough. Makes a lot of sense. Congrats on the great quarter, guys. I'll return to the queue.

很公平。很有道理。大家，恭喜本季取得如此出色的成績。我會回到隊列。

Ryan Daniels, William Blair.

瑞安丹尼爾斯、威廉布萊爾。

Hey. This is Matthew Mardula on for Ryan Daniels. And in your prepared remarks, you mentioned DTE to grow in Q3 and Q4. And in the last two quarters, we saw a decrease roughly 3% year over year. How should we see the back half? And should we see it as positive year-over-year growth? And if so, how much of an impact should it have?

嘿。這是 Ryan Daniels 的 Matthew Mardula。在您準備好的發言中，您提到 DTE 將在第三季和第四季成長。在過去兩個季度中，我們看到同比下降了約 3%。後半部該怎麼看？我們是否應該將其視為同比增長？如果是的話，它會產生多大的影響？

Yeah. Hey, Matt. I would point you to the comments. So on a full-year basis, we still see growth there. So think of it as like low-single-digit percentage growth year on year. I would say Q3-Q4 cadence, it would be ramping from here through the end of the year. So we're exiting '25 at a much higher run rate.

是的。嘿，馬特。我想向你指出這些評論。因此，從全年來看，我們仍然看到成長。因此，可以將其視為同比低個位數百分比的成長。我想說 Q3 到 Q4 的節奏將從現在開始一直持續到年底。因此，我們在 25 年結束時的運行率要高得多。

And yeah, on the Q1 and Q2, like we said, renewal rates with existing customers surprise us to the upside versus what we're forecasting. A lot of our larger new clients and ARR wins like a couple that we called out here in particular when we're dealing with sort of public entities and schools and municipalities, you can imagine the sales cycle on those is a little bit harder to predict.

是的，就第一季和第二季而言，正如我們所說，現有客戶的續約率比我們預測的要高，這讓我們感到驚訝。我們的許多較大的新客戶和 ARR 勝利就像我們在這裡提到的幾個，特別是當我們與公共實體、學校和市政當局打交道時，你可以想像這些的銷售週期有點難以預測。

So the takeaway I think is better than anticipated renewal rates, still very strong pipeline. Things that I thought were going to land in Q2 end up landing in Q3, July, August go-lives. And so you didn't get the benefit on Q2, but like any sort of SaaS ARR book of business, it's a backlog and a pipeline that we monitor very closely. And we're finally starting to see a lot of those bigger deals convert here in July and August. So there is a higher degree of visibility for Q3 and Q4 to be sure.

因此，我認為結論是續約率比預期要好，通路仍然非常強勁。我原以為會在第二季實現的事情最終在第三季、七月和八月才實現。因此，您沒有在第二季度獲得收益，但與任何類型的 SaaS ARR 業務一樣，它是一個積壓訂單和管道，我們會密切監控。我們終於開始看到許多較大的交易在七月和八月轉換。因此可以肯定，Q3 和 Q4 的可見度更高。

Great. Thank you for that. And then with the desire to move more towards Payor revenue, and you mentioned in your prepared remarks gain a kind of 30% plus growth rate in the back half, how has competition been in that space recently? Have you seen it maybe become harder to attract or retain patients? And any color into that would be great to hear as well.

偉大的。謝謝你。然後，隨著對支付方收入的進一步關注，您在準備好的發言中提到下半年的成長率將達到 30% 以上，那麼最近該領域的競爭如何？您是否發現吸引或留住患者可能變得更加困難？聽到任何有關這方面的內容我都會很高興。

Yeah. As I said before, I don't -- you always think about the competition, but quite honestly, the TAM, the market on the mental health, all of it is so large that we continue to look at it as continuing to grow the market as opposed to what competitors are doing, quite honestly, because there is so much need out there that what you're seeing on our side, the growth is being fueled by a huge number of people coming into the -- coming to Talkspace for the need for mental health services. So it's not really -- we're not seeing much on the competitive side that's having any impact on us, quite honestly.

是的。正如我之前所說，你總是會考慮競爭，但說實話，TAM，即心理健康市場，所有這些都是如此之大，以至於我們繼續將其視為持續增長的市場，而不是競爭對手所做的，說實話，因為那裡有如此多的需求，正如你在我們這邊看到的，增長是由大量人進入——來到 Talkspace 尋求心理健康服務的需求所推動的。所以，說實話，我們並沒有看到競爭方面對我們產生太大的影響。

All right. Great. Thank you so much, and good luck for the rest of the year.

好的。偉大的。非常感謝，祝您今年餘下時間一切順利。

Ryan McDaniel (sic - MacDonald), Needham & Company.

麥克丹尼爾（Ryan McDaniel，原文如此 - 麥克唐納），Needham & Company。

Hi. Thanks for taking my questions, and congrats on the great progress with the payor member lives added. As we think about sort of those, that record number of ads quarter over quarter, can you talk about sort of what the rough mix of those ads was between sort of commercial versus Medicare? Just trying to understand sort of how much runway there is on the commercial side versus sort of momentum from the added Medicare lives.

你好。感謝您回答我的問題，並祝賀付款人成員生命增加方面取得的巨大進展。當我們考慮這些時，每個季度的廣告數量都創下了紀錄，您能否談談商業廣告和醫療保險廣告的大致組合情況？只是想了解商業方面有多少發展空間以及增加的醫療保險帶來多少發展動力。

Hey, Ryan. Yeah, I mean, we had positive contributions both from Medicare and then I would say even more so from military, which we've alluded to sort of how positive we feel about that segment. I know we -- investors focus on these two groups because they're new and sort of easy call outs.

嘿，瑞安。是的，我的意思是，我們從醫療保險和軍隊中都獲得了積極的貢獻，我們已經提到了我們對這一部分的積極感受。我知道我們——投資者關注這兩個群體，因為他們是新群體，很容易被關注。

To answer your question, the vast preponderance of our growth came from our core commercial. So the runway within sort of -- I don't know what you want to call it -- core talk space, sort of pre-Medicare, pre-military is still really substantial, tons of white space, and that's where most of the growth is coming from. Obviously the growth rates on Medicare military are quite substantial, but smaller starting points given they're newer.

回答你的問題，我們的成長絕大部分來自於我們的核心商業。因此，在某種——我不知道你想怎麼稱呼它——核心談話空間內，在醫療保險前、軍事前，跑道仍然非常堅固，有大量的空白，而大部分增長都來自於此。顯然，醫療保險軍事人員的成長率相當可觀，但考慮到他們成立的時間較短，起點較低。

Helpful color there. Thank you. And then maybe a question on AI. Great to hear about all the innovations that are occurring, but we've started to see more and more states come out with regulations, either severely limiting or banning or creating a lot of requirements and sort of guardrails around the use of AI in mental healthcare. Illinois, I think, was the most recent one.

那裡有有用的顏色。謝謝。然後也許還有一個關於人工智慧的問題。很高興聽到所有正在發生的創新，但我們開始看到越來越多的州出台法規，要么嚴格限製或禁止，要么對在精神保健領域使用人工智能製定許多要求和護欄。我認為伊利諾伊州是最近的一個。

So just curious, especially given that you just launched in Illinois with the Blues plan, was there any adjustments that you had to make to the product or parts of the product that you weren't -- aren't able to use in a state like that where there are these regulations? And how should we just think about sort of the impact these regulations could have on the offering moving forward?

所以只是好奇，特別是考慮到您剛剛在伊利諾伊州推出了 Blues 計劃，您是否對產品或產品的某些部分做了任何調整，以至於在有這些規定的州您無法使用？我們該如何看待這些法規對未來發行可能產生的影響？

So it's a great question, actually. So there's a lot of discussion slash noise around what AI therapy could look like. And a lot of significant nervousness on part of a whole bunch of groups relative to what that might be in the future. So you're seeing it in Illinois and a bunch of other states, somewhat of a reaction to some other, what I'll call bad occurrences that have already happened.

所以這實際上是一個很好的問題。因此，關於人工智慧治療將會是什麼樣子，存在著許多討論和爭論。許多團體對於未來可能出現的情況感到非常緊張。所以你在伊利諾伊州和其他一些州看到的是這種情況，這在某種程度上是對其他一些已經發生的糟糕事件的反應。

Our view is, first off, we're not out there. We're not saying we're not supporting what's going on currently. Our view is that any AI therapy assistant, partner, coordinator, or otherwise, whatever you want to describe it, needs to have two significant other added qualities. One, it needs and must have clinical oversight by licensed and real clinicians that are looking to see what's happening. The second is that we are continuing to evolve to believe that it should and may need to exist in a HIPAA environment to protect patients and protect their privacy.

我們的觀點是，首先，我們並不在那裡。我們並不是說我們不支持當前正在發生的事情。我們的觀點是，任何人工智慧治療助理、夥伴、協調員或其他，無論你想如何描述它，都需要擁有另外兩個重要的附加品質。首先，它需要並且必須接受有執照的真正的臨床醫生的臨床監督，以了解正在發生的事情。第二，我們不斷發展，相信它應該而且可能需要存在於 HIPAA 環境中，以保護患者並保護他們的隱私。

Those two issues have not been addressed yet. But we do believe, as one of the leaders of the space, that those should be probable requirements as people move forward to deliver care in any manner, whether it's a -- whatever the AI mental health support is, those two issues we believe are foremost to deliver a quality product.

這兩個問題尚未解決。但我們作為該領域的領導者之一，相信隨著人們以任何方式提供護理，這些應該是可能的要求，無論是人工智慧心理健康支援是什麼，我們認為這兩個問題對於提供優質產品至關重要。

Great. Thanks for the color.

偉大的。謝謝你的顏色。

Charles Rhyee, TD Cowen.

查爾斯·瑞伊（Charles Rhyee），考恩（Cowen）TD。

Yeah. Thanks for taking the questions. Like to just follow up on maybe the guidance and then think about sort of the -- how should we think about revenues in terms of cadence perhaps between third quarter and fourth quarter? Particularly as we're thinking about the range for the full-year guidance, so you talked about some DTE signings a little bit later. It sounds like we're going to expect some ramp time. Should we -- any kind of sense you can give us between sort of relative weighting between third quarter and fourth quarter would be helpful to start.

是的。感謝您回答這些問題。就像只是跟進指導然後思考一下——我們應該如何考慮第三季和第四季之間的收入節奏？特別是當我們正在考慮全年指導範圍時，您稍後會談到一些 DTE 簽約。聽起來我們將會期待一些上升時間。我們是否應該——您能否給我們提供關於第三季度和第四季度之間的相對權重的任何信息，這將有助於我們開始。

Yeah. Hey, Charles. So I think consistent with what we've been saying throughout the year 2025, we expected consistently ramping growth throughout the year. So we put up 15% consolidated top line Q1, that accelerated in this Q2 to 18%. Well, what I'm hoping folks here is that DTE, there's conversion happening.

是的。嘿，查爾斯。因此，我認為與我們在 2025 年全年所說的一致，我們預計全年將持續成長。因此，我們第一季的綜合營業收入成長了 15%，而第二季則加速至 18%。好吧，我希望這裡的各位是 DTE，正在發生轉換。

Actually, some of it got pushed to Q3. So Q3 is going to be a beneficiary of the delays we experienced in Q2. But then more importantly, perhaps, in terms of materiality to the growth metrics, we're exiting Q2 at a higher clip than the sort of full quarter would imply.

實際上，部分內容被推遲到了第三季。因此，第三季將受益於我們在第二季經歷的延遲。但更重要的是，從成長指標的重要性來看，我們第二季的成長速度高於整個季度所暗示的成長速度。

So 15%, 18%, I would then -- depending on what your full-year number is, I would look at full -- sort of consistently increasing growth in Q3 and Q4. So Q4 will definitely be exiting at the highest run rate we've been at in '25 overall. So I wouldn't do like a 50-50 straight line. Maybe it's a 48-52 type of cadence.

因此，15%、18%——取決於你的全年數字，我會看第三季和第四季的持續成長。因此，第四季的整體運行率肯定會達到 25 年以來的最高水準。所以我不會畫一條 50-50 的直線。也許是 48-52 類型的節奏。

And the visibility that you have on that -- thanks for that; that's helpful -- is it clearly -- from what you kind of talked about earlier, you have these launches, you see what the ramp looks like, or are there things that still have to kind of play out to get visibility on that?

您對此的了解 — — 謝謝您；這很有幫助 — — 是否清楚 — — 從您之前談到的，您有這些發布，您看到坡道是什麼樣子，或者是否還有一些事情需要完成才能獲得對此的了解？

So new launches, I just wanted to call out because they are so large. Give or take, they're both -- respectively, Illinois and Texas, both represent about $7 million. So throw in Idaho and it's $16 million. So that's certainly a positive contributor.

因此，我只是想指出新產品的推出，因為它們規模太大了。大致來說，伊利諾州和德州分別代表約 700 萬美元。加上愛達荷州，總額是 1600 萬美元。所以這無疑是一個積極的貢獻者。

It's obviously much more so the user-based increase we had in Q2, 10,000 unique active payor members, 10,000 increase versus Q1. That's the highest nominal increase we've had in over two years. And we have -- this is sort of the beauty of the payor model. It's a much longer retention, much longer revenue associated with each payor member given the retention we know and the LTV that comes with it. So we can know that exiting June 30, what the sort of long tailed revenue profile looks of that user base.

顯然，我們第二季度的用戶成長更為顯著，有 10,000 名獨立活躍付費會員，比第一季增加了 10,000 名。這是我們兩年多來的最高名目增幅。我們有—這就是付款人模式的魅力所在。考慮到我們已知的保留率和隨之而來的 LTV，這意味著更長的保留期，與每個付款人成員相關的更長時間的收入。因此，我們可以知道截至 6 月 30 日，該用戶群的長尾收入狀況如何。

And by the way, to I think Bobby's question earlier, that new user number increased throughout the quarter. So a lot of those new ads we just got in June. And then combine that with the fact that the product investments and product improvements we've made in terms of the member journey and the funnel to get into care has improved. The session velocity is up, I think it's about 3% year on year. And then the revenue per session is up 5% year over year. So you get those two sort of compounding effects on top of a larger user base, and it gives on the payor side, a lot of visibility into Q3, Q4 revenue ramping.

順便說一句，我想回答 Bobby 之前提出的問題，整個季度新用戶數量都在增加。我們在六月剛收到很多新廣告。然後結合我們在會員旅程和獲得護理的管道方面所做的產品投資和產品改進的事實，我們已經得到了改善。會話速度有所提高，我認為同比增長約 3%。每次會議的收入年增 5%。因此，你可以在更大的用戶群上獲得這兩種複合效應，並且它為付款方提供了對第三季、第四季營收成長的巨大可見性。

And on top of that, just to get down the -- like we've said, sales and marketing was always going to be heaviest in the first half as opposed to the second half. On top of that, we put in place in June another sort of G&A cost optimization program, which gives us in the bag several million dollars of savings there. So operating leverage, even if we had done nothing plus G&A savings with getting back to that 20% plus growth rate on a HoldCo basis, that's sort of how we put the pieces together.

除此之外，正如我們所說，與下半年相比，上半年的銷售和行銷工作總是最繁重。除此之外，我們在六月實施了另一個 G&A 成本優化計劃，這為我們節省了數百萬美元。因此，即使我們什麼都沒做，加上 G&A 節省，也能在 HoldCo 基礎上恢復到 20% 以上的成長率，這就是我們將各個部分整合在一起的方式。

Got it. Maybe my last question, obviously adding a lot of new members and so trying to calculate through how your conversion rate is messed up -- is actually obscured. Maybe on a sort of a same-store kind of metrics, you mentioned that your CAC is falling. Any kind of metrics or what kind of sense you can give us on sort of your ability to convert members? Do you see that improving? Thanks.

知道了。也許我的最後一個問題是，顯然增加了很多新成員，因此試圖計算你的轉換率是如何被搞亂的——實際上是模糊的。也許根據某種同店指標，您提到您的 CAC 正在下降。您能給我們什麼指標或感覺來表明您轉化會員的能力嗎？您覺得情況有改善嗎？謝謝。

Yeah. I would say, so Q -- again, I think exiting Q2 is -- everything was better than when we entered Q2. So I want you to hear that theme. In terms of quantifying it, I would think of it in terms of like, both sequentially and year over year, it's sort of a high-single digit, low-double-digit percentage improvement in our CAC which, as you know, we don't disclose. But that should give you a sense of sort of relative improvement versus beginning of the year and also last year.

是的。我想說，所以 Q——再說一次，我認為退出 Q2 時——一切都比我們進入 Q2 時要好。所以我希望你們能聽聽這個主題。從量化的角度來看，我會這樣想，無論是按季度還是按年，我們的 CAC 都呈現出高個位數、低兩位數的百分比增長，但如你所知，我們不會透露這一數據。但這應該能讓你感覺到與今年年初和去年相比有所改善。

Got it. Appreciate it. Thanks a lot, and congrats, guys.

知道了。非常感謝。非常感謝，恭喜你們。

Steven Valiquette, Mizuho.

瑞穗的史蒂文‧瓦利奎特 (Steven Valiquette)。

Thanks. Good morning. So I think this was touched on maybe a little bit earlier in the call, but just to try to maybe get a little more color on it. So we saw some of the public managed care companies call out that behavioral health spending was definitely a key factor in some of their higher medical loss ratios in the second quarter, but it seemed like maybe it was happening more in Medicaid instead of commercial, at least from some of the public disclosures.

謝謝。早安.所以我認為在通話中可能早些時候已經提到過這個問題，但只是為了嘗試對此進行更詳細的說明。因此，我們看到一些公共管理醫療公司表示，行為健康支出肯定是導致第二季度醫療損失率較高的一個關鍵因素，但似乎這種情況更多地發生在醫療補助計劃中，而不是商業計劃中，至少從一些公開披露的信息來看是這樣。

But really, I guess the question is, have they talked about now having task forces to try to more aggressively manage the higher trend? So I'm just curious, really, is there anything that managed care can do to try to aggressively manage the higher behavioral health utilization in commercial markets, the way you see it now, whether it's in '25 or '26? Or are some of the things that we're alluding to as far as applied behavior analysis and trying to curtail that, is that more Medicaid specific and maybe they're doing things there in Medicaid, but maybe there's not much they can do in commercial. Just want to kind of just suss that out a little bit more. Thanks.

但實際上，我想問題是，他們是否討論過現在成立工作小組來嘗試更積極地管理更高的趨勢？所以我只是很好奇，真的，管理式醫療可以做些什麼來積極管理商業市場中更高的行為健康利用率，就像您現在看到的那樣，無論是在 25 年還是 26 年？或者，就應用行為分析而言，我們所提到的一些事情，以及試圖限制這些事情，是否更具體於醫療補助，也許他們在醫療補助方面做了一些事情，但也許他們在商業方面做不了什麼。只是想更深入地了解這一點。謝謝。

Sure. So as you know, relative to Medicaid, we are not in network with Medicaid for a variety of reasons, which we can discuss at another time. But the population does skew to have probably a higher acuity than we usually deal with.

當然。因此，如您所知，相對於醫療補助，由於各種原因，我們並未加入醫療補助網絡，我們可以在其他時間討論。但人口的敏銳度確實可能比我們通常處理的要高。

But having said that, to move back in the earlier part of your question is I think that the management of mental health services to the commercial payors or Medicare is something we certainly can help address, because it's not just the people of access, but we are certainly a lower-cost option than most people who are in network with on-the-ground psychiatrists and therapists who frequently charge more than we do, especially since many of them are out of pocket and are not in network. But if you look at an MA plan or other risk plans, it is a significant cost to them.

但話雖如此，回到你問題的前半部分，我認為我們當然可以幫助解決商業付款人或醫療保險的精神衛生服務管理問題，因為這不僅僅是人們的可及性，而且我們肯定是一個比大多數與現場精神病醫生和治療師聯網的人更低成本的選擇，他們收取的費用往往比我們高，特別是因為他們中的許多人都是自用並且不在網絡中付費。但如果你看一下 MA 計劃或其他風險計劃，這對他們來說是一筆不小的成本。

But we have talked to different people about doing risk contracts. We are doing value-based contracts with many of the payors. We have talked about doing risk contracts, but that has not happened yet. But we would certainly look at that for large populations, but it doesn't seem like the larger of the managed care groups are ready to address that as a cost control issue for mental health. But we would have that discussion if it came up.

但我們已經與不同的人討論過簽訂風險合約的問題。我們正在與許多付款人簽訂基於價值的合約。我們已經討論過簽訂風險合同，但目前尚未實現。但我們肯定會針對大量人口考慮這個問題，但似乎較大的管理式醫療集團還沒有準備好將其視為心理健康的成本控制問題來解決。但如果出現這種情況，我們就會進行討論。

Okay. So it sounds like you're more a part of the solution as opposed to part of any sort of target to curtail the utilization, from what it sounds like. So I appreciate you kind of framing it that way. That's helpful. Thanks.

好的。因此，聽起來您更像是解決方案的一部分，而不是任何減少利用率的目標的一部分。所以我很欣賞你這樣構思。這很有幫助。謝謝。

That's correct.

沒錯。

Steve Dechert, KeyBanc.

KeyBanc 的 Steve Dechert。

Hey, guys. Just curious with the higher marketing spend, just any changes on where you're spending those dollars versus years past? And then just anything you can tell us on what you're seeing with reimbursement rates as you negotiate with payors? Thank you.

嘿，大家好。我只是好奇，由於行銷支出增加，與過去幾年相比，您的支出方向有什麼變化嗎？然後，您能告訴我們在與付款人談判時您對報銷率的看法嗎？謝謝。

Nothing I'd call out specifically in terms of material changes. Again, I think we're benefiting a lot from the product changes that we've talked about the last few quarters that we've increasingly put out and sort of put out into the product and went live with. I would also not discount, again, the structural tailwinds at our backs, just from as every dollar we spend increasingly becomes more relevant to more people in terms of pushing them to an in-network plan. That continues to pay dividends.

就實質變化而言，我沒有什麼特別要指出的。再說一次，我認為我們從過去幾季討論過的產品變化中受益匪淺，我們越來越多地將這些變化融入產品中並投入使用。我也不會忽視我們背後的結構性順風，因為我們花費的每一美元都越來越與更多的人相關，從而推動他們採用網絡內計劃。這將繼續帶來回報。

New channels, really, for Medicare and military, we've been testing certain new sort of digital marketing channels and new partnerships, given that these are two different audiences that historically we haven't marketed directly to. So in that sense, there's definitely some new channels. But again, it's in terms of overall dollars, fairly small versus the entire portfolio.

實際上，對於醫療保險和軍隊來說，我們一直在測試某些新型數位行銷管道和新的合作夥伴關係，因為這兩個不同的受眾群體我們過去從未直接向他們進行過行銷。從這個意義上來說，肯定存在一些新的管道。但同樣，就整體金額而言，相對於整個投資組合來說，這筆金額相當小。

Okay, thanks. And then just on the reimbursement rate, negotiations with payors, any color you could give there?

好的，謝謝。那麼就報銷率、與付款人的談判而言，您能提供什麼資訊嗎？

Yeah. No, as we talked about, we renegotiate with payors every couple of years. We've been through a cycle recently. So I don't predict anything happening any time really soon for any of the major payors, certainly not within the next year. But it comes up every couple of years, but nothing really on the horizon.

是的。不，正如我們所說的，我們每隔幾年就會與付款人重新談判一次。我們最近經歷了一個週期。因此，我預測任何主要付款人都不會很快發生任何事情，當然也不會在明年發生。但它每隔幾年就會出現一次，但目前還沒有任何進展。

Okay. Thanks.

好的。謝謝。

Richard Close, Canaccord Genuity.

Canaccord Genuity 的 Richard Close。

Yeah, thanks for the follow-up. On the DTE, I think you said something about employers being slower to make decisions or something along those lines, and obviously, you guys play more in the mid-market. But can you just give any additional details on that? That would be helpful.

是的，感謝您的跟進。關於 DTE，我認為您說過一些關於雇主決策速度較慢或類似的事情，顯然，你們在中端市場發揮的作用更大。但您能否提供更多有關該問題的詳細資訊？那將會很有幫助。

Yeah. Hey, Richard. Actually, I was speaking not about employers with that comment. It was more for the public entities and the schools, which have increasingly become, as you know, both a focus of ours and also a core competitive advantage of ours in that we've been able to show our expertise in engaging these teen populations. So the latest one in Jon's comments today about youth in North Carolina impacted by the judicial system, it's a large deal. That one's been 10 or 11 months in the making. So it's just the nature of this end market in terms of the sales cycle.

是的。嘿，理查德。實際上，我發表這番評論並不是針對雇主。它更多的是針對公共實體和學校，正如你所知，它們越來越成為我們的關注點，也是我們的核心競爭優勢，因為我們能夠展示我們在吸引這些青少年群體方面的專業知識。因此，喬恩今天發表的最新評論是關於北卡羅來納州青少年受到司法系統影響的問題，這是一個大問題。這個項目已經製作了 10 或 11 個月了。所以，從銷售週期的角度來看，這只是這個終端市場的本質。

On the employer side, we've been pleasantly surprised, again, in our retention. And we've been employing some sort of new sales channels, partnership channels, which have a much higher sales velocity than we've been pleased with. But obviously, on a whole book of business basis, smaller can move the needle with a given mid-market employer as opposed to a large school system or something like that.

從雇主角度來看，我們的員工留任率再次讓我們感到驚訝。我們一直在採用某種新的銷售管道、合作管道，其銷售速度比我們滿意的要高得多。但顯然，從整個商業角度來看，與大型學校系統或類似系統相比，規模較小的機構可以對特定的中型市場雇主產生影響。

Okay. I appreciate the clarification there. Thanks.

好的。我很感謝你的澄清。謝謝。

And with no further questions in queue, this does conclude today's conference call. You may now disconnect. Goodbye.

由於沒有其他問題，今天的電話會議就此結束。您現在可以斷開連線。再見。